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broncobryce
02-01-2009, 02:24 PM
And this is my favorite part......."Cutler, you have to remember his defense has not been . . . If Jay Cutler is playing for the Pittsburgh Steelers, how many (games) has he won now? I watched him against Cleveland, and he did enough to win that game four times over and he still has to come up with a game-winning drive at the end of it. I don't think you can look at the quarterback without looking at the running game, without looking at the defense.

"I give Rivers more credit this year than I ever had. But I'm not so sure Cutler hasn't done a little bit more with a little bit less of a supporting cast than the others."

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11596654

TAMPA, Fla. — They come from small schools in the Midwest and East and from football factories in the South and West.

Some are fast; a few have mobility only a pigeon could love. A few have big arms but haven't won big. Ben Roethlisberger has a relatively average arm but has won more than any of them.

They all arrived a short time ago.

Welcome to the National Football League, where chances are a fan's favorite team has a quarterback who's a little wet behind the helmet and figures U2 is most often heard on the oldies station.

"It's a really good young group of players at that position," said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. "All of those players are very successful and very different. It just shows how many different
types of players you can use to play well in that role if you use them the right way. It's really a good time to be a fan of quarterbacks in this league."
Roethlisberger is going for a second Super Bowl title today when his Pittsburgh Steelers play the Arizona Cardinals in Super Bowl XLIII. He's among 21 starting or franchise-caliber quarterbacks with no more than five years of NFL experience, including the Broncos' Jay Cutler. Twenty-one.

The best of the group? It depends on whether the preference is filet or salmon, cabernet or milkshakes, but Roethlisberger can help separate himself from the group by winning today.

Kurt Warner, Arizona's veteran quarterback, first picked the rookies, Matt Ryan of Atlanta and Joe Flacco of Baltimore, as the most impressive of the young Turks. Roethlisberger likes Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers.

"Roethlisberger," said Cardinals general manager Rod Graves. "You take the fact he came from a small school, and was developed in such a fantastic way, and his leadership skills. He has to be, of the young quarterbacks, the most impressive."

This wasn't just a top executive at the Super Bowl engaging in gamesmanship. Many agree that while Roethlisberger, a 6-foot-5, 240-pound freakish athlete from Miami of Ohio, is the toughest to categorize, he'd be the first of the young quarterbacks they'd take.

"He does a great job of winning," McDaniels said. "If there's one thing at that position you want a player to do, it's to win. If you can ultimately say, who won the most games out of that group, I think all of them would switch places and be that guy."

Added John Madden, a Hall of Fame coach who will help call the Super Bowl today for NBC: "Ben, I think, you have to use a different criteria. He's leadership and wins. And he's tough. You watch some of the hits he takes, it's unbelievable. I don't think you can compare Ben Roethlisberger to Dan Marino. You wouldn't. Cutler is more that way."

2004: The beginning

There are young franchise quarterbacks all over the league. The Cleveland Browns have two, Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn. Two others, Arizona's Matt Leinart and Tennessee's Vince Young, played against each other in the BCS title game, were top 10 picks in the 2006 draft, played often as rookies, and are now benchwarmers behind quality veterans.

The infusion of young guns started with the class of 2004 when Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Roethlisberger were all taken early in the first round. Manning and Roethlisberger already have won Super Bowls; Rivers has reached the conference championship.

The young guys end with the class of 2008, where Ryan and Flacco started every game while leading their respective teams to the playoffs.

Roethlisberger went 9-of-21 with two interceptions in his previous Super Bowl. (Gregory Shamus, Getty Images )"There was kind of a period there where there was a lot of older guys," said Cutler, who some would argue has the greatest potential in this burgeoning group of passers. "Peyton (Manning) and (Tom) Brady, they kind of dominated. Now there's a new surge of some young guys playing really well. Which makes it fun. It's starting to become a quarterback-dominated league, and people like to see a lot of numbers, like to see a lot of points. The next five, 10 years will be fun."

As will the debate over who is the best.

Cris Collinsworth, who is also part of NBC's broadcast team today and a former NFL receiver, favors the quarterbacks with the strongest arms.

"This guy is probably the best arm guy," Collinsworth said, pointing to Cutler's name on the list. "Just pure thrower. The one who it wouldn't surprise me winds up being the best of all of them is Flacco. I just think he has the skill set. And they're going to have the defense there for a while.

"Cutler, you have to remember his defense has not been . . . If Jay Cutler is playing for the Pittsburgh Steelers, how many (games) has he won now? I watched him against Cleveland, and he did enough to win that game four times over and he still has to come up with a game-winning drive at the end of it. I don't think you can look at the quarterback without looking at the running game, without looking at the defense.

"I give Rivers more credit this year than I ever had. But I'm not so sure Cutler hasn't done a little bit more with a little bit less of a supporting cast than the others."

Maturity eases pressure

A big reason Roethlisberger, Eli Manning and Rivers are at the top of the list is that they aren't that young anymore. Next year will be their sixth season — Tony Romo territory, where players make that unofficial leap from kid to veteran.

About to cross the threshold, Roethlisberger was asked to look back at the greatest difficulty confronting young quarterbacks.

"If you have a four-interception game, which I had this year, being able to brush it off the same as if you had a four- touchdown game," he said. "Knowing you're going to have good games and bad games and how can you overcome and bounce back from either game? Whether you're getting booed by fans or dealing with the pressure from the media, the pressure you put on yourself, I think that's the toughest thing for a young quarterback to deal with."

Somewhere in this group of young quarterbacks figures to be a Hall of Famer, or more. Some, like Roethlisberger, Cutler and Ryan, are off to terrific starts, but will they be considered terrific five years from now? Then there's Leinart, who lost his starting job.

"It obviously hasn't gone my way the last two years, getting hurt last year and then Kurt getting the starting job this year," Leinart said. "But I think I'm in a very different position than a lot of those other guys, with a guy like Kurt Warner. Those guys don't have a guy like that, who's a Hall of Fame quarterback. I've got a long career ahead of me."

It's too early to tell who will become the best of the young quarterbacks. What is known is more NFL teams than not are now counting on them.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

By the numbers
5 seasons to record 50 victories as a starting QB, the fastest to that total in NFL history

23 years and 340 days, age at which he won his first Super Bowl, the youngest QB to do so

80.1 QB rating this season, the second-lowest of his NFL career

Beyond their years
Sorry, Tony Romo. The cutoff point for "young" quarterbacks was the 2004 draft, or those with no more than five years in the league. Here are the best young quarterbacks, as ranked by NFL reporter Mike Klis:

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

Not the best passer, but he might be the best athlete — and his 58-22 record makes him the winningest QB through five seasons in NFL history.

2. Matt Ryan, Falcons

What he did as a rookie can't be overstated.

3. Philip Rivers, Chargers

He throws funny, fumbles too much and he's too emotional. But he has a knack for making the big pass at the right time.

4. Jay Cutler, Broncos

Easily the best pure passer in this group and he's right there with Joe Flacco for strongest arm. Cutler can become the best QB in this group, too, once he starts getting to the postseason.

5. Eli Manning, Giants

His 2007 postseason was one for the ages. He would have been ranked higher, but he continues to have two or three clunker games a season.

6. Aaron Rodgers, Packers

Tough to compare because he's started only one season, but he's got four years of NFL experience. A good passer, underrated scrambler and no one, not even Eli, plays under more pressure.

7. Joe Flacco, Ravens

Considering he didn't play in a big-time college program, his rookie year in some ways was just as impressive as Ryan's. And Flacco probably always will have the better defense and deep-ball arm.

8. Jason Campbell, Redskins

He's steady, but it seems his job is to not lose games instead of win them.

9. Matt Leinart, Cardinals

He is either forgotten or considered a bust, but such conclusions are premature for a third-year quarterback caught playing on the same team as Kurt Warner.

10. Matt Schaub, Texans

Made significant improvement in his fifth season, but is too brittle.

Others

Matt Cassel, Patriots; Brady Quinn, Browns; Tarvaris Jackson, Vikings; Kyle Orton, Bears; Derek Anderson, Browns; Trent Edwards, Bills; Vince Young, Titans; Tyler Thigpen, Chiefs; Dan Orlovsky, Lions; JaMarcus Russell, Raiders; Alex Smith, 49ers

NorthernLights
02-01-2009, 08:16 PM
[COLOR=red]
3. Philip Rivers, Chargers

He throws funny, fumbles too much and he's too emotional. But he has a knack for making the big pass at the right time.



:confused: :confused:

Rivers has 3 lost fumbles in his career. Ben and Tony have 4 and Jay has 5 (we won't discuss week 2). I wonder where that stat came from?

silkamilkamonico
02-01-2009, 08:41 PM
:confused: :confused:

Rivers has 3 lost fumbles in his career.

Rivers has lost 12 fumbles in his career. Rivers also lost 4 fumbles alone last season. What have you been smoking?

omac
02-01-2009, 08:44 PM
3. Philip Rivers, Chargers

He throws funny, fumbles too much and he's too emotional. But he has a knack for making the big pass at the right time.

LOL, it's almost like he wants to say, "Rivers is a whiny bitch." :D

lex
02-01-2009, 09:16 PM
This is poor work by whoever wrote this. The Steelers have been one of the most consistently good organizations in all of sports. To point to the Steelers record (not Ben's record per se) as a starter is extremely myopic. Its not like Pittsburgh hasnt been one of the strongest defensive teams through the years. This is a team that went to the SB with Neal O'Donnell as their starter and they also won a lot with Kordell Stewart as QB.

Tned
02-01-2009, 09:25 PM
This is poor work by whoever wrote this. The Steelers have been one of the most consistently good organizations in all of sports. To point to the Steelers record (not Ben's record per se) as a starter is extremely myopic. Its not like Pittsburgh hasnt been one of the strongest defensive teams through the years. This is a team that went to the SB with Neal O'Donnell as their starter and they also won a lot with Kordell Stewart as QB.

:confused: What are you talking about.

NorthernLights
02-01-2009, 10:49 PM
Rivers has lost 12 fumbles in his career. Rivers also lost 4 fumbles alone last season. What have you been smoking?

According to ESPN.com, he has lost 3 fumbles.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=5529

But according to NFL.com, it is showing he has lost 12.

http://www.nfl.com/players/philiprivers/careerstats?id=RIV651634

You're right.

omac
02-02-2009, 07:30 AM
Based on their list, I'd go ...

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers (wily young veteran, big plays)

2. Jay Cutler, Broncos (Michael Jordan)

3. Aaron Rodgers, Packers (excellent at all facets)

4. Philip Rivers, Chargers (whiny bitch ... j/k. Probably the toughest and best player of the Chargers)

5. Eli Manning, Giants (quiet leader)

6. Matt Schaub, Texans (when he's not injured)

7. Brady Quinn, Browns (great pocket presence, quick decisions, plays under control)

8. Matt Cassel, Patriots (one year wonder? so far so good)

9. Matt Ryan, Falcons (great poise for a rookie)

10. Trent Edwards, Bills (if his brain's still all intact)

11. Kyle Orton, Bears (why Rex started over him, who knows?)

12. Joe Flacco, Ravens (excellent poise for a rookie)

13. Derek Anderson, Browns (rattles a little too easily)

14. Tyler Thigpen, Chiefs (he shouldn't be good, but he makes a lot of plays)

Anyone else on their list is not worth mentioning.

LRtagger
02-02-2009, 10:47 AM
To say you have to consider all facets of the teams these QBs play on as an indicator as to how good they actually are...and then place Ben and Matt as the top two on the list is laughable.

Both rely HEAVILY on the rest of their team. Ben is severely overrated and without his #1 defense would be average at best. Yes he is good at the 4th quarter comebacks, but he could never carry an entire team on his back. You give the Steelers the Broncos defense and they go 3-13 this year.

And I posted stats on Matt Ryan when Turner did not run for 100 yards in a game. They were not pretty numbers. Yes the guy had a terrific year, but to put him as #2 on the list of those QBs is rediculous.

topscribe
02-02-2009, 12:20 PM
Based on their list, I'd go ...

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers (wily young veteran, big plays)

2. Jay Cutler, Broncos (Michael Jordan)

3. Aaron Rodgers, Packers (excellent at all facets)

4. Philip Rivers, Chargers (whiny bitch ... j/k. Probably the toughest and best player of the Chargers)

5. Eli Manning, Giants (quiet leader)

6. Matt Schaub, Texans (when he's not injured)

7. Brady Quinn, Browns (great pocket presence, quick decisions, plays under control)

8. Matt Cassel, Patriots (one year wonder? so far so good)

9. Matt Ryan, Falcons (great poise for a rookie)

10. Trent Edwards, Bills (if his brain's still all intact)

11. Kyle Orton, Bears (why Rex started over him, who knows?)

12. Joe Flacco, Ravens (excellent poise for a rookie)

13. Derek Anderson, Browns (rattles a little too easily)

14. Tyler Thigpen, Chiefs (he shouldn't be good, but he makes a lot of plays)

Anyone else on their list is not worth mentioning.

Cutler definitely has more skills than Ben, but one can't argue against two rings . . .

-----

broncobryce
02-02-2009, 04:11 PM
I wasn't able to watch any Ravens games except the playoffs. What is the big deal about Flacco? Has anyone seen enough of his games to give me a heads up?

Broncospsycho77
02-02-2009, 04:17 PM
I wasn't able to watch any Ravens games except the playoffs. What is the big deal about Flacco? Has anyone seen enough of his games to give me a heads up?

He throws a mean deep ball and definitely has a leader-esque gait to him, but is still prone to make a ton of mistakes while doing so.

At one of those televised college competitions last year, he launched a bomb over 70 yards with relative ease.

broncobryce
02-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Thanks. I know he is like 6'6 as well. It was just the playoff games I saw I was not impressed. But he played against some good defenses.

elsid13
02-02-2009, 04:25 PM
I wasn't able to watch any Ravens games except the playoffs. What is the big deal about Flacco? Has anyone seen enough of his games to give me a heads up?

Flacco played well for the team and made some big throws when he had to. BUT the coaching staff helped him a lot by limiting his reads on the field, emphasising the running game and punting it away and playing defense when they needed to. I see Flacco as above average starter in the league, but never elite - Think a strong arm Trent Green.

The interesting part will be to see what happens next season, when all DC have tape on the young guys (Ryan, Flacco Cassel) and know what they need to do to stop them. That why Cutler is very special, he has the ability to get things done, even when DC know what they have to do to stop him.

broncobryce
02-02-2009, 05:08 PM
Yeah, it's amazing what a QB can do with a monster D and a good running game. Hopefully Cutler will have both someday.

omac
02-02-2009, 07:53 PM
To say you have to consider all facets of the teams these QBs play on as an indicator as to how good they actually are...and then place Ben and Matt as the top two on the list is laughable.

Both rely HEAVILY on the rest of their team. Ben is severely overrated and without his #1 defense would be average at best. Yes he is good at the 4th quarter comebacks, but he could never carry an entire team on his back. You give the Steelers the Broncos defense and they go 3-13 this year.

And I posted stats on Matt Ryan when Turner did not run for 100 yards in a game. They were not pretty numbers. Yes the guy had a terrific year, but to put him as #2 on the list of those QBs is rediculous.

You're absolutely right. It probably has a lot to do with the media hype machine. Atlanta in shambles after the Vick and Petrino incidents, huge publicity from taking Ryan at #3, Ryan playing well in a very managed way, where they don't force him to make too many decisions and back him up with a solid rushing offense.

Matt Ryan is pretty good for a rookie, and even for a QB, but to put him so high on the list over Cutler, Rivers, Rodgers, Eli, etc. is laughable. To put Flacco over Schaub? Purely media hype.

Same reason Jake Long gets more publicity as one of the best young LTs over Ryan Clady, who's above him and most veterans.

Then putting Leinart and Campbell on that list is ridiculous.

TXBRONC
02-02-2009, 09:24 PM
You're absolutely right. It probably has a lot to do with the media hype machine. Atlanta in shambles after the Vick and Petrino incidents, huge publicity from taking Ryan at #3, Ryan playing well in a very managed way, where they don't force him to make too many decisions and back him up with a solid rushing offense.

Matt Ryan is pretty good for a rookie, and even for a QB, but to put him so high on the list over Cutler, Rivers, Rodgers, Eli, etc. is laughable. To put Flacco over Schaub? Purely media hype.

Same reason Jake Long gets more publicity as one of the best young LTs over Ryan Clady, who's above him and most veterans.

Then putting Leinart and Campbell on that list is ridiculous.

It baffles me how Clady as a rookie can give up a half sack and be penalized for just handful of times can not be considered the better tackle.