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broncofaninfla
01-30-2009, 09:11 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11577284 (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11577284)


If it's the Broncos' offseason, it must be time to wonder which linebacker position D.J. Williams is about to play.
"We're going to try and put every player in the best position that allows us to be as successful as we can," said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. "Whatever combination that winds up being, obviously D.J. will be a big part in that. And we'll look forward to getting him out there and putting him in position to where he can be a really good football player."
Williams first has to get healthy. He recently underwent shoulder surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff. He has begun light rehabilitation, although his arm will remain in a sling during his downtime. At linebacker, Williams has played the weak side, strong side,middle and weak side again in the past five seasons. If the Broncos move to a 3-4 defense for the 2009 season, he could be considered for an inside linebacker position.

Burns coming back.
Make that four Broncos assistants under former coach Mike Shanahan who have been retained on the staff of McDaniels.
Keith Burns will be coming back as assistant special- teams coach. He joins Rick Dennison (offensive line), Bobby Turner (running backs) and Rich Tuten (strength and conditioning) as holdovers.
Burns was a Broncos special-teams standout for most of his NFL playing career before retiring after the 2007 season and beginning work as an assistant coach with the team.
He will be retained as an assistant under new special- teams coordinator Mike Priefer, who was hired by McDan- iels after spending the past three years with Kansas City.

About that 3-4.
McDaniels and new defensive coordinator Mike Nolan have the 3-4 base defense in their background, but perhaps because the Broncos' current roster was built for the 4-3, the transition may be gradual. McDaniels is not ready to divulge specifics about his defensive plans.
"The system that we'll ultimately use will be versatile, no matter who the players are," McDaniels said. "But at this stage, the big thing is to evaluate what we have and see what the roster looks like as we go forward. To sit here in January and say we're going to be this or going to be that would be very far-reaching and probably not accurate. You'll see a lot of different things, I'll tell you that." Mike Klis, The Denver Post

TXBRONC
01-30-2009, 09:19 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11577284 (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11577284)


If it's the Broncos' offseason, it must be time to wonder which linebacker position D.J. Williams is about to play.
"We're going to try and put every player in the best position that allows us to be as successful as we can," said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. "Whatever combination that winds up being, obviously D.J. will be a big part in that. And we'll look forward to getting him out there and putting him in position to where he can be a really good football player."
Williams first has to get healthy. He recently underwent shoulder surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff. He has begun light rehabilitation, although his arm will remain in a sling during his downtime. At linebacker, Williams has played the weak side, strong side,middle and weak side again in the past five seasons. If the Broncos move to a 3-4 defense for the 2009 season, he could be considered for an inside linebacker position.

Burns coming back.
Make that four Broncos assistants under former coach Mike Shanahan who have been retained on the staff of McDaniels.
Keith Burns will be coming back as assistant special- teams coach. He joins Rick Dennison (offensive line), Bobby Turner (running backs) and Rich Tuten (strength and conditioning) as holdovers.
Burns was a Broncos special-teams standout for most of his NFL playing career before retiring after the 2007 season and beginning work as an assistant coach with the team.
He will be retained as an assistant under new special- teams coordinator Mike Priefer, who was hired by McDan- iels after spending the past three years with Kansas City.

About that 3-4.
McDaniels and new defensive coordinator Mike Nolan have the 3-4 base defense in their background, but perhaps because the Broncos' current roster was built for the 4-3, the transition may be gradual. McDaniels is not ready to divulge specifics about his defensive plans.
"The system that we'll ultimately use will be versatile, no matter who the players are," McDaniels said. "But at this stage, the big thing is to evaluate what we have and see what the roster looks like as we go forward. To sit here in January and say we're going to be this or going to be that would be very far-reaching and probably not accurate. You'll see a lot of different things, I'll tell you that." Mike Klis, The Denver Post

Thanks BFIF!

The last part of your post about the 3-4 I find interesting. It was just yesterday in a article that McDaniels said that the would be using some 3-4 and some 4-3. My guess is that you could take that to mean he's going to use a hybrid form the 3-4 defense.

Ziggy
01-30-2009, 09:21 AM
McDaniels seems commited to repairing this D. He did come from a team after all, that won 3 Super Bowls with great defenses. People tend to forget that the Pats had the 1st, 2nd, and 6th best scoring defenses in the NFL the 3 years they won thier championships.

Shazam!
01-30-2009, 09:32 AM
I hope it translates into a successful future with McCoach. Every time I read/hear him talk about anything involved with the team, he always says the right things and most of us like what we hear.

Like Keith Burns and think more ex-Broncos should be on the Coaching Staff.

I still wonder why Tuten is a holdover.

Tned
01-30-2009, 09:51 AM
I'm surprised that McDaniels said that about DJ. It's common knowledge that he might lose his job to Woodyard, or so I have been told by some 'message board' experts....

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 09:56 AM
I'm surprised that McDaniels said that about DJ. It's common knowledge that he might lose his job to Woodyard, or so I have been told by some 'message board' experts....

We're going to make a mark and prove 200 pound LB's are studs. You didnt hear?

G_Money
01-30-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm surprised that McDaniels said that about DJ. It's common knowledge that he might lose his job to Woodyard, or so I have been told by some 'message board' experts....

Um...what part of this refutes that notion?

"We're going to try and put every player in the best position that allows us to be as successful as we can," said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. "Whatever combination that winds up being, obviously D.J. will be a big part in that. And we'll look forward to getting him out there and putting him in position to where he can be a really good football player."

None of that says, "That Woodyard kid has no shot, and obviously if we stay in a 4-3 we're keeping DJ at the Will."

If they really do stay in a 4-3 and don't replace the MLB position from outside the org, then a viable option is to move DJ back to the middle and put Woodyard at the weak-side. That could be said to be more advantageous, and to "put every player in the best position that allows us to be as successful as we can." And where DJ can be "a really good player."

Just let it play out. Our pieces don't fit together especially well on defense right now, even the few decent ones we have, so some people are gonna get squeezed into slots in order to try to not have to add 9 new starters this offseason.

DJ's not immune to the squeeze.

~G

TXBRONC
01-30-2009, 10:36 AM
Um...what part of this refutes that notion?

"We're going to try and put every player in the best position that allows us to be as successful as we can," said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. "Whatever combination that winds up being, obviously D.J. will be a big part in that. And we'll look forward to getting him out there and putting him in position to where he can be a really good football player."

None of that says, "That Woodyard kid has no shot, and obviously if we stay in a 4-3 we're keeping DJ at the Will."

If they really do stay in a 4-3 and don't replace the MLB position from outside the org, then a viable option is to move DJ back to the middle and put Woodyard at the weak-side. That could be said to be more advantageous, and to "put every player in the best position that allows us to be as successful as we can." And where DJ can be "a really good player."

Just let it play out. Our pieces don't fit together especially well on defense right now, even the few decent ones we have, so some people are gonna get squeezed into slots in order to try to not have to add 9 new starters this off season.

DJ's not immune to the squeeze.

~G

It specially mentions D.J. by name and his role on the team but it doesn't specifically mention Woodyard by name. At the moment the ONLY way Woodyard has the remotes shot of getting onto the field as linebacker is if we stick to 4-3. His best bet in my opinion is switch positions. D.J. is probably more immuned to being squeezed than some one like Webster or B. Bailey.

G_Money
01-30-2009, 10:58 AM
It specially mentions D.J. by name and his role on the team but it doesn't specifically mention Woodyard by name. At the moment the ONLY way Woodyard has the remotes shot of getting onto the field as linebacker is if we stick to 4-3. His best bet in my opinion is switch positions. D.J. is probably more immuned to being squeezed than some one like Webster or B. Bailey.

It doesn't actually mention his role on the team, just that he'll be on the field.

Which is true because he is a good player, he was just given a giant contract, and he can't be traded because of the guaranteed money still open on that contract.

DJ will be starting at SOME LB position next year. Once again, we just have no idea which one.

~G

BeefStew25
01-30-2009, 11:00 AM
Hopefully DJ grows a brain in the offseason.

Buff
01-30-2009, 11:05 AM
DJ's gotten a bad rap because everyone around him sucks, and his role keeps changing. Give him some support and stability and you've got yourself a pro bowl LB.

BeefStew25
01-30-2009, 11:08 AM
DJ's gotten a bad rap because everyone around him sucks, and his role keeps changing. Give him some support and stability and you've got yourself a pro bowl LB.

I would love for him to pick the right gap. All that speed and intangibles don't mean shyt when you are as dumb as a rock.

Larsen and Woodyard have instinct. DJ does not.

Lets see what the coaches can do with our Corky Thatcher LB.

Buff
01-30-2009, 11:15 AM
I would love for him to pick the right gap. All that speed and intangibles don't mean shyt when you are as dumb as a rock.

Larsen and Woodyard have instinct. DJ does not.

Lets see what the coaches can do with our Corky Thatcher LB.

DJ has instinct, he played at the end of the year with a bum knee and hurt shoulder... If you go back to the preseason games, when he was healthy, he was the only one flying to the ball. If we quit changing his gap assigment, he might be able to find the right one...

Dude is never gonna be the most cerebral player on the field, he'll never be an Al Wilson type, but if we can give him a defined role that doesn't include quarterbacking the defense, I think he can succeed.

BeefStew25
01-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Our stud LB was awesome in preseason games.

Man, we have some killers.

Buff
01-30-2009, 11:25 AM
Our stud LB was awesome in preseason games.

Man, we have some killers.

He was hurt for the majority of the season...

I understand there are no sacred cows on a defense that sucked as bad as ours, but what's with people singling out our best offensive player (Cutler) and our 2nd best defensive player (Williams) when we have like 34 other scrubs on the team to worry about?

BeefStew25
01-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Our defense improved when DJ was hurt.

Just saying.

broncofaninfla
01-30-2009, 11:52 AM
I like DJ but I have to agree, Woodyard played the postion better hands down.

Ziggy
01-30-2009, 11:57 AM
Our defense improved when DJ was hurt.

Just saying.

It was also the same time period that Nate Webster was hurt, and we replaced Nate at MLB.

Just saying.

PatricktheDookie
01-30-2009, 12:02 PM
it was also the same time period that nate webster was hurt, and we replaced nate at mlb.

Just saying.

qft

BeefStew25
01-30-2009, 12:03 PM
It was also the same time period that Nate Webster was hurt, and we replaced Nate at MLB.

Just saying.

True point.

I just think with the money we pay DJ, he would make more of a difference out there.

Man, I miss Al.

fuLUN17QznA

G_Money
01-30-2009, 12:11 PM
It's not a good sign when your defense gets better with two rooks instead of two starters, but I agree with Ziggy - replacing Webster with Larsen I think was the bigger portion of that.

The combo of Woodyard and Larsen was better on the field than the combo of DJ and Webster.

But I don't think Wesley's a better Will than DJ. He's just 95% of DJ for 10% of the cost. And he's a leader.

DJ's FINE at the Weak-side. He may wind up being fine as an inside backer in a 3-4, but we're gonna suffer for a few months while he figures it out because he has no instincts and so needs serious reps to be decent, so I'd like to make sure we don't have any more Websters playing LB for us.

Woodyard can only legitimately play the Will and Strong-Safety, IMO. If you ask him to play other positions I think you're asking more of him than he can be expected to give.

But I think he can play Will at a high level, and can be taught to play strong safety at a high level.

And I think Larsen can be an adequate starter in the middle of a 4-3 or a 3-4.

Whatever they wind up doing with Woodyard and Larsen, though, DJ's gonna be on the field. He has to be.

That doesn't free up DJ from criticism. As beef intimates, without Al Wilson next to him DJ has been eminently replaceable. So while DJ will be "a significant part" of whatever defense we run in 09, we'd better add back in some talent around him, and some leaders around him, because his skillset is a complementary one. He adds to a good defense, he doesn't lead a bad or average one to being a good one by force of will or feats of skill.

It's just not his game.

~G

honz
01-30-2009, 12:17 PM
Wasn't DJ leading the league or the AFC in tackles when he got injured? Our D may have improved while DJ was injured, but it wasn't because our leading tackler was out of the lineup.

WARHORSE
01-30-2009, 12:19 PM
This defense.........in whatever flex state its in..........is going to take smart players in order for it to be truly effective. How smart?

Smart enough to think on your feet.


Woodyard can play at OLB if he gains some weight for the long haul. He also will need to take really good care of his body between games. Larry Foote is just a little heavier than WW at this time, yet his speed is very effective at this time for Pittsburg.

Id like to see Woodyard in space more, but count me as one who would like to see him get a really decent shot at SS from McDaniels.

Draft Mauluga for one of the rush linebackers.

BeefStew25
01-30-2009, 12:21 PM
Wasn't DJ leading the league or the AFC in tackles when he got injured? Our D may have improved while DJ was injured, but it wasn't because our leading tackler was out of the lineup.

Yeah. Seven yards downfield.

Northman
01-30-2009, 12:22 PM
lol

Ziggy
01-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Everyone's tackle stats were inflated the last 2 seasons. When you're not getting off of the field, you're going to make a lot of tackles. The problem is, too few of them are around the line of scrimmage. Jamie Winborne and DJ Williams had a total of 18 tackles in the San Diego game at the end of the year. Does it mean that they played well? No. What did all of those tackles amount to? 6.9 yards per rush for San Diego. They ran the ball 42 times because we couldn't tackle anyone less than 5 yards down the field. During that time, our players got 42 tackles, not counting assists. Tackle stats mean very little if they come when the other team is running the ball right down your throat.

Northman
01-30-2009, 12:41 PM
Everyone's tackle stats were inflated the last 2 seasons. When you're not getting off of the field, you're going to make a lot of tackles. The problem is, too few of them are around the line of scrimmage. Jamie Winborne and DJ Williams had a total of 18 tackles in the San Diego game at the end of the year. Does it mean that they played well? No. What did all of those tackles amount to? 6.9 yards per rush for San Diego. They ran the ball 42 times because we couldn't tackle anyone less than 5 yards down the field. During that time, our players got 42 tackles, not counting assists. Tackle stats mean very little if they come when the other team is running the ball right down your throat.

True. Wasnt that the gripe about Foxworth? That although he would make the tackle (much better than other guys) he was doing it down the field? A lot of people gave him grief but i guess that doesnt apply to our Linebackers. :lol:

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 01:10 PM
I can imagine DJ Williams to be a Patrick Willis type player in the ILB in a 3-4 defense. He's definitely got the speed and athletics to be. Hopefully the experience will catch up to his physical abilities sooner in the 2009 season than later.

I'm more concern about signing the right impact OLB players through free agency 1st then anything. What is the news on Julius Peppers? I think he'll transition nicely to an outside linebacker in a 3-4 and with the right aggressive blitzing schemes which Nolan is already game planning, Peppers' sack numbers up only go up.

.

broncofaninfla
01-30-2009, 01:59 PM
I honestly think we will be fine with Larsen and DJ in the middle. I'm more concerned with the DL and OLB's at this point. Woodyard is such an enigma. The consensus says he is too small to play OLB but he was a stud in the 4/3. The guy brings so much fire and skill to the table that it seems to offsets the size concerns and seems to inspire the guys around him as the defense was noticeably better as a whole with him and Larsen in. I'm not sure where he will fit in but he is just too skilled not to be on the field.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 02:09 PM
I honestly think we will be fine with Larsen and DJ in the middle. I'm more concerned with the DL and OLB's at this point. Woodyard is such an enigma. The consensus says he is too small to play OLB but he was a stud in the 4/3. The guy brings so much fire and skill to the table that it seems to offsets the size concerns and seems to inspire the guys around him as the defense was noticeably better as a whole with him and Larsen in. I'm not sure where he will fit in but he is just too skilled not to be on the field.


Woodyard does not have the physical stature to play the OLB in a Nolan 3-4 defense in both height and size. He can not generate pressure on the QB from the outside.

Woodyard is better off gaining 20 extra pounds of muscle mass which would put him at around 6'1'' and 240-250lbs and have him play next to DJ Williams in the ILB position. If Woodyard can't do that, Woodyard may be a casualty of the regime change.

The exact same goes for Jamie Winborn who was a Niner/Nolan casualty a few years ago in San Fran. Winborn is a very good WLB or SLB in a conventional 4-3 defense which was prevalent in our dismal defense last year. I hope we do lose either one of those guys next year. Who knows exactly what our defense will look like.

I still have my fingers crossed that we'll get Rey Maualuga with our 12th draft spot. Maualuga and DJ Williams would make a formidable LB core, especially if we can sign a guy like Julius Peppers to rush the edge.

Boss Bailey- OLB, Rey Maualuga- ILB, DJ Williams-ILB, Julius Peppers- OLB with 3 stout fatties holding the line in front of them and Champ Bailey sealing the no fly zone behind them would make a formidable defense no matter how you look at it.

.

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 02:16 PM
Personally, I think WW has no choice but to make a switch to safety. Even if we ran a 4-3, opposing coordinators could easily throw in a fullback or pull a guard and completely remove him from the play. Yes, he has fire/spirit/heart/motivation...whatever you want to call it. But that's just not enough when you simply cant physically match up with the guy across the line from you

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Personally, I think WW has no choice but to make a switch to safety. Even if we ran a 4-3, opposing coordinators could easily throw in a fullback or pull a guard and completely remove him from the play. Yes, he has fire/spirit/heart/motivation...whatever you want to call it. But that's just not enough when you simply cant physically match up with the guy across the line from you


Woodyard definitely has the physical-ness that Nolan looks for in his safety but can he cover? Can he be anything like that of Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed?

If Woodyard can't cover and I don't think he can, Woodyard may not have a spot on Nolan's defense other than being a ST standout. Same goes for Jamie Winborn.

The 2 guys would be a waste of talent if they are restricted to be special teams specialist only. They'd be better off going to another team. I'd ask for a trade if I were Winborn or Woodyard if Nolan implements a true 100% 3-4 defense in Denver for the 2009 season.

Woodyard may give us a decent draft pick, hopefully a 3rd rounder or better. If GMs around the league have been paying attention, Woodyard would be a wanted man.

.

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 02:39 PM
No If anything WW will get on the field in Nolan's "big nickle" package....but Ed Reed is a FS and I think WW can be a decent SS in the league. He may not be a Troy Rolypoly but he can be better than half the SS's in the league. Troy relies heavily on his front seven and his speed/instincts. I wouldnt say the guy could man-up on most receivers in the league, but he is a ball hawk with good instincts that can make plays on the ball and also get to the line and level a RB. Woodyard has the tools necesary to do those things, but can he make the adjustment to the safety position? I think so.

He can be better in coverage than Lynch was the past couple years and better than Manuel was last year thats for sure.

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 02:41 PM
I'd be willing to bet WW does NOT see very much time on the field as a LB this year. he may want to find a jersey with a lower number on it.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 02:54 PM
I don't think WW can make it in the NFL as a safety, at least not a 3 down safety. Maybe a situational player like what tagger said, a big nickel package guy playing SS in a Nolan 3-4 fense and a stand out ST guy, that's it.

.

G_Money
01-30-2009, 02:54 PM
I still disagree with you about Woodyard being unable to fight through a block to make a tackle, and that a fullback can erase him from every play.

He's not tiny. He's just 10 pounds light in the seat of his pants. Royal's 10 pounds light in the seat of his pants too, but press coverage doesn't destroy him - he spends time in the weight room and counts on his incredible stop/starts to give him some separation.

If Woodyard gets locked up with an OL, he'll lose. So will Winborn, and DJ. None of those guys are gonna stand up a lineman and block off a gap. Not their game.

Woodyard's game requires him to read a play before it can be properly set up and get to the ball carrier before all the blocking is in place. He's good at it. There will be times he gets blocked out of a play, and there will be times he makes the play in the backfield. He blows up screen passes with malice aforethought. He tackles well, something that can't be said for most of our backers.

But having a weakness doesn't make you incompetent, especially when 80% of the guys at your position of weak-side LB have the same weakness. Most of them are light, and most of them struggle to fight off blockers. It's the nature of the position and the types of players that are chosen to fill it.

But since I still believe we're moving to a 3-4, I agree with you that there's no place at LB for him, certainly not to start, so I'd start him on a safety conversion program ASAP. If I was Wesley, I'd call Nolan and tell him I'm working on my coverage skills all off-season, and a lean weight-lifting program.

Put in the work, Wes - it's one less position we have to fill if you can handle it for us.

~G

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 02:55 PM
I'd be willing to bet WW does NOT see very much time on the field as a LB this year. he may want to find a jersey with a lower number on it.


Totally agree unless he can bulk up a little and play ILB next to DJ.

.

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 02:59 PM
I still disagree with you about Woodyard being unable to fight through a block to make a tackle, and that a fullback can erase him from every play.

He's not tiny. He's just 10 pounds light in the seat of his pants. Royal's 10 pounds light in the seat of his pants too, but press coverage doesn't destroy him - he spends time in the weight room and counts on his incredible stop/starts to give him some separation.

If Woodyard gets locked up with an OL, he'll lose. So will Winborn, and DJ. None of those guys are gonna stand up a lineman and block off a gap. Not their game.

Woodyard's game requires him to read a play before it can be properly set up and get to the ball carrier before all the blocking is in place. He's good at it. There will be times he gets blocked out of a play, and there will be times he makes the play in the backfield. He blows up screen passes with malice aforethought. He tackles well, something that can't be said for most of our backers.

But having a weakness doesn't make you incompetent, especially when 80% of the guys at your position of weak-side LB have the same weakness. Most of them are light, and most of them struggle to fight off blockers. It's the nature of the position and the types of players that are chosen to fill it.

But since I still believe we're moving to a 3-4, I agree with you that there's no place at LB for him, certainly not to start, so I'd start him on a safety conversion program ASAP. If I was Wesley, I'd call Nolan and tell him I'm working on my coverage skills all off-season, and a lean weight-lifting program.

Put in the work, Wes - it's one less position we have to fill if you can handle it for us.

~G

Here lies the problem...it's obvious that even if we dont completely transistion to a 3-4, we'll definately start collecting the pieces. So, suppose we draft Maualuga or JL. When we run the 4-3, that puts the rookie and DJ on the field and perhaps Larsen, depending on the set-up. So either way, there really isnt room for WW and when I consider his size and the fact that some WR's could possibly effectively block him...it makes it worse.

I love the kid and his ability to make plays, but I dont think that lasts forever at a LB spot due to his size. i really hope he works on coverage skills and can play the SS for us. Otherwise, we have no room for him.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 03:07 PM
Wesley Woodyard reminds me a lot of Ian Gold when Ian was 1st drafted in the 2nd round out of Michigan. If my memory is correct, Gold was only 220lbs right out of college with great speed, the prototypical speed LBs Mikey liked. Bill Romanowski didn't like Ian too much I think.

.

broncofaninfla
01-30-2009, 03:15 PM
I guess I keep asking myself this question, if Larry Foote can do it, why can't Woodyard. I agree he is on the small side and does not fit the prototypical build BUT the guy has skills. He went undrafted because the NFL felt he was too small. He more than proved them wrong last year. I agree the size comes into play more in the 3/4 than the 4/3 but I'm hoping the guy gets a chance to show what he can do at OLB first then move him to safety if it won't work out. What ever happens I just hope we don't cut him. Despite being undrafted I'd say he is worth at least a 4th or 5th round pick right now, as is.

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 03:44 PM
Probably because Foote is closer to 240 as opposed to the 200...maybe 210...than WW carries.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 03:55 PM
I guess I keep asking myself this question, if Larry Foote can do it, why can't Woodyard. I agree he is on the small side and does not fit the prototypical build BUT the guy has skills. He went undrafted because the NFL felt he was too small. He more than proved them wrong last year. I agree the size comes into play more in the 3/4 than the 4/3 but I'm hoping the guy gets a chance to show what he can do at OLB first then move him to safety if it won't work out. What ever happens I just hope we don't cut him. Despite being undrafted I'd say he is worth at least a 4th or 5th round pick right now, as is.


Just my point. Larry Foote(6'1'' and 239lbs) plays the ILB position in a 3-4 just as I'm suggesting that WW needs to bulk up to at least 240lbs and learn the ILB position if he wants a spot on this new Broncos team. Difference though is Larry Foote has been playing the middle linebacker position since college at Michigan. WW probably has never played the MLB position ever in his life. But I think it's easier for WW to switch from a WLB to an ILB in a 3-4 than it is for him to go from the WLB to a SS(not enough cover skills) even though he played some safety in college.

This is the NFL and everyone can run. You can't teach speed. You either have it or you don't. I don't think WW has the speed to be a great safety in the NFL.

It is not that easy for a player to switch from one position to the next just because they have the physical abilities to do so. It takes years to learn and be good or great at a position. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it and everyone would have a spot in the NFL.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 03:58 PM
I already posted Adam Archuleta's bio and it is almost identical to WW. And he played in a cover 2 right out of college....until he dropped off FAST. But if WW can give us the four years at SS that AA gave the Rams, I'll be more than happy with that.

turftoad
01-30-2009, 03:59 PM
Just my point. Larry Foote(6'1'' and 239lbs) plays the ILB position in a 3-4 just as I'm suggesting that WW needs to bulk up to at least 240lbs and learn the ILB position if he wants a spot on this new Broncos team. Difference though is Larry Foote has been playing the middle linebacker position since college at Michigan. WW probably has never played the MLB position ever in his life. But I think it's easier for WW to switch from a WLB to an ILB in a 3-4 than it is for him to go from the WLB to a SS(not enough cover skills) even though he played some safety in college.

This is the NFL and everyone can run. You can't teach speed. You either have it or you don't. I don't think WW has the speed to be a great safety in the NFL.

It is not that easy for a player to switch from one position to the next just because they have the physical abilities to do so. It takes years to learn and be good or great at a position. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it and everyone would have a spot in the NFL.

Biggest problem more than learning the position is adding 30 lbs. He was listed at around 212 near the end of the season.

We don't even know if he can. Even if he can, that doesn't happen over night and it may not be good weight.

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 03:59 PM
I already posted Adam Archuleta's bio and it is almost identical to WW. And he played in a cover 2 right out of college....until he dropped off FAST. But if WW can give us the four years at SS that AA gave the Rams, I'll be more than happy with that.

At least until we find a better option.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 04:00 PM
At least until we find a better option.

Wecan probably get our front 7 in check in 4 years. Even if he just gave us ONE solid year at SS and let us put it on the backburner until next draft I would be OK with that.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:03 PM
Probably because Foote is closer to 240 as opposed to the 200...maybe 210...than WW carries.


Woodyard is way bigger than the suggested 212 lbs he's supposedly said he was. I don't believe it even if he did say it in a interview.

Just look at the guy stand next to the other guys on the field even knowing that he's got bulkier LB shoulder pads on.

All other websites have him listed anywhere from 219lbs(combine) to 227lbs(wiki) to 230lbs(NFL.com, espn.com and Denver Broncos.com).

I think we can squash the WW is only 210-212lbs assumption that most every know it all on this forum thinks.

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Someone has a sig picture with him and Barrett together. Barrett is 225 and looks way bigger than WW.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:11 PM
Biggest problem more than learning the position is adding 30 lbs. He was listed at around 212 near the end of the season.

We don't even know if he can. Even if he can, that doesn't happen over night and it may not be good weight.

It's easier for an athlete, especially a great athlete, that WW is to bulk up then it is for him to learn and be good, great or even effective in a different football position.

And it's not 30lbs he'll have to pack on. see previous post above. WW is at least 225lbs.

And don't forget, the kid is only a rook, only 22 years old. The average human man does not fill out his body frame completely til around 23-25 yrs old. That is a fact, ask a doctor or anyone that knows anything about human anatomy.

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 04:11 PM
this is him with Paymah. Paymah is 190. Sorry, but WW does not weight 40 more pounds than Paymah.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07Idfl6cShb7B/610x.jpg

turftoad
01-30-2009, 04:12 PM
Woodyard is way bigger than the suggested 212 lbs he's supposedly said he was. I don't believe it even if he did say it in a interview.

Just look at the guy stand next to the other guys on the field even knowing that he's got bulkier LB shoulder pads on.

All other websites have him listed anywhere from 219lbs(combine) to 227lbs(wiki) to 230lbs(NFL.com, espn.com and Denver Broncos.com).

I think we can squash the WW is only 210-212lbs assumption that most every know it all on this forum thinks.

.

Reports (at the end of the season) had him at 212 lbs. The official site, wiki, nfl.com and espn don't update every day, FWIW.

turftoad
01-30-2009, 04:13 PM
It's easier for an athlete especially a great athlete that WW is to bulk up then it is for him to learn and be good, great or even effective in a different football position.

And it's not 30lbs he'll have to pack on. see previous post above. WW is at least 225lbs.

And don't forget, the kid is only a rook, only 22 years old. The average human man does not fill out his body frame completely til around 23-25 yrs old. That is a fact, ask a doctor or anyone that knows anything about human anatomy.

.

Ask Jarvis Moss how hard it is to put on weight.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Someone has a sig picture with him and Barrett together. Barrett is 225 and looks way bigger than WW.

Hahaha! So were basing a players weight based on 2 pictures taken at completely different back drops at completely different angles with different cameras and lighting at completely different times of the year(before, during or after season, weight training, etc.).

OK great logic. It's a fact now guys, lock it. Josh Barret is bigger than Wesley Woodyard based on some guy's signature pictures. :whoknows:

Hahaha! LOL! :tsk:

That post above reminds me of this post posted more than 10 days ago. It was freaking hilarious IMHO.


For all you Mane people, someone named Garcia Bronco talked to Kyle Shanahan and he told him his dad was more than likely going to coach the Chiefs because it was closer to CO, this info via bronco militia! :whoknows:

I still crack up uncontrollably when I read that post by Nomad. :lol: :laugh: :D

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 04:29 PM
Hahaha! So were basing a players weight based on 2 pictures taken at completely different back drops at completely different angles with different cameras and lighting at completely different times of the year(before, during or after season, weight training, etc.).

OK great logic. It's a fact now guys, lock it. Josh Barret is bigger than Wesley Woodyard based on some guy's signature pictures. :whoknows:

Hahaha! LOL! :tsk:

That post above reminds me of this post posted more than 10 days ago. It was freaking hilarious IMHO.





Wait...didnt you just say he looked bigger than 210 based on how he looks standing next to different players?

I highly dount he weighs more than 210, but even if he does weigh 220...He's going to need to add 20-30 more pounds before I'd be comfortable calling him anything more than another Ian Gold. Easier said than done

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:34 PM
Ask Jarvis Moss how hard it is to put on weight.


Jarvis Moss got up to 265lbs. At least that is what the official Broncos site says.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=7252

and this is after battling through staff infections in bone, broken legs and what have you in recent years.

I believe Moss was more like 255lbs playing this year though.

either way, Jarvis Moss is a twinkle toe baby girl, not like WWIII in Woodyard.


*****************************

http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/2008/woodyard_mug_08.jpg

Height: 6' 1"
Weight: 230 lbs.
College: Kentucky
Born: in
Acquired: Rookie Free Agent, 2008
Pro Year: R
Year with Broncos: 1st
NFL Games Played/Started: 16/6
Postseason: 0/0

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=8678

Official site says he is 230lbs. Every player loses weight towards the end of the year especially if you are walking into the training room on Mondays with a whole list of ailments for the day before.

Either way, if you use the average of 212lbs and 230lbs, you get 221lbs. Which means WWIII only has to ad on 19lbs of muscle mass to hit 240lbs which is more than easy to do after an NFL strength and training regiment. Especially when you are only 22 years old.

.

TXBRONC
01-30-2009, 04:36 PM
It's easier for an athlete, especially a great athlete, that WW is to bulk up then it is for him to learn and be good, great or even effective in a different football position.

And it's not 30lbs he'll have to pack on. see previous post above. WW is at least 225lbs.

And don't forget, the kid is only a rook, only 22 years old. The average human man does not fill out his body frame completely til around 23-25 yrs old. That is a fact, ask a doctor or anyone that knows anything about human anatomy.

.


No that is not factual that he at least 225 lbs. In his own words NB he said he was playing at about 212 lbs.

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Either way, if you use the average of 212lbs and 230lbs, you get 221lbs. Which means WWIII only has to ad on 19lbs of muscle mass to hit 240lbs which is more than easy to do after an NFL strength and training regiment. Especially when you are only 22 years old.

.

Somehow I just have to disagree with this. If he's going to add 19 pounds of muscle, he'd be better off talking with Shawne merriman than the Broncos conditioning team.

TXBRONC
01-30-2009, 04:40 PM
this is him with Paymah. Paymah is 190. Sorry, but WW does not weight 40 more pounds than Paymah.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07Idfl6cShb7B/610x.jpg

Yep it's not even close.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Wait...didnt you just say he looked bigger than 210 based on how he looks standing next to different players?

I highly dount he weighs more than 210, but even if he does weigh 220...He's going to need to add 20-30 more pounds before I'd be comfortable calling him anything more than another Ian Gold. Easier said than done


http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/Paymah_Karl_mug_06.jpg

Height: 6' 0"
Weight: 195 lbs.
College: Washington State
Born: in Boston
Acquired: Draft, Round 3 (76th overall), 2005
Pro Year: 4th
Year with Broncos: 4th
NFL Games Played/Started: 60/5
Postseason: 2/0

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=4340

******************************************

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07Idfl6cShb7B/610x.jpg

If Paymah is 195lbs, Woodyard is definitely at least 20-25lbs on him in that picture. The brand scar on WW's arm alone is 1 lbs more. :lol:

.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:50 PM
No that is not factual that he at least 225 lbs. In his own words NB he said he was playing at about 212 lbs.

I never said it was a fact. It's based on my assumption and what 3-4 of the biggest football info websites have him listed as. The fact I was referring to is the average human male reaches his full body frame size at around 23-25 yrs old.

and I do not believe WW is only 212lbs even if it came out of his mouth. wait til the beginning of next season and I will beproven right as usual.

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 04:50 PM
Hahaha! So were basing a players weight based on 2 pictures taken at completely different back drops at completely different angles with different cameras and lighting at completely different times of the year(before, during or after season, weight training, etc.).

OK great logic. It's a fact now guys, lock it. Josh Barret is bigger than Wesley Woodyard based on some guy's signature pictures. :whoknows:

Hahaha! LOL! :tsk:

That post above reminds me of this post posted more than 10 days ago. It was freaking hilarious IMHO.



I still crack up uncontrollably when I read that post by Nomad. :lol: :laugh: :D


Woodyard is way bigger than the suggested 212 lbs he's supposedly said he was. I don't believe it even if he did say it in a interview.

Just look at the guy stand next to the other guys on the field even knowing that he's got bulkier LB shoulder pads on.

All other websites have him listed anywhere from 219lbs(combine) to 227lbs(wiki) to 230lbs(NFL.com, espn.com and Denver Broncos.com).

I think we can squash the WW is only 210-212lbs assumption that most every know it all on this forum thinks.

.



Whatever you say, buddy. I go off WW himself saying he was playing at 212. I posted the picture BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAID HE LOOKS BIGGER WHEN STANDING NEXT TO OTHER PLAYERS. :rolleyes:

CoachChaz
01-30-2009, 04:50 PM
Here's what I looks for. Paymah is WAY more cut than WW. So, most of his weight appears to be muscle weight, which obviously weighs more. WW just looks a little bigger...but not muscle-wise.

Also keep in mind that Paymah wears MUCH different pads as a CB than WW wears as a LB.

Again...even if WW weighed 220 or even 225. He has a long way to go to be a 3-4 LB

turftoad
01-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Denverbroncos.com does not update players weights.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Somehow I just have to disagree with this. If he's going to add 19 pounds of muscle, he'd be better off talking with Shawne merriman than the Broncos conditioning team.


I am not asking for your agreement. This is a football forum and I am here to discuss and debate as you all know I am the main debater against all others on this site. It's me bymyself versus every one else on your side of the table.

Yea, let's have WW talk to Bill Romo who Pat Bowles should hire as our nutritionist and chemist.

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Denverbroncos.com does not update players weights.


neither does NFL.com or wikipedia...but I'm sure Wes weighs himself on a daily basis. I'll trust his word.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 04:54 PM
Whatever you say, buddy. I go off WW himself saying he was playing at 212. I posted the picture BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAID HE LOOKS BIGGER WHEN STANDING NEXT TO OTHER PLAYERS. :rolleyes:

Wow, is WW's weight still a controversy?? :tsk:

You are right: WW himself said that. End of story. :coffee:

-----

turftoad
01-30-2009, 04:54 PM
I never said it was a fact. It's based on my assumption and what 3-4 of the biggest football info websites have him listed as. The fact I was referring to is the average human male reaches his full body frame size at around 23-25 yrs old.

and I do not believe WW is only 212lbs even if it came out of his mouth. wait til the beginning of next season and I will beproven right as usual.

.

And you had the gonads to call all of us "Know it alls"? :tsk:

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Wow, is WW's weight still a controversy?? :tsk:
-----


Apparently coming directly from the horses mouth isnt good enough :rolleyes:

I bet the guy could stand on a scale, take a picture of the reading holding the day's newspaper and people would still say "oh that brand of scale usually reads 15 pounds light no way he weighs 212...i mean just look at wikipedia"

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Here's what I looks for. Paymah is WAY more cut than WW. So, most of his weight appears to be muscle weight, which obviously weighs more. WW just looks a little bigger...but not muscle-wise.

Also keep in mind that Paymah wears MUCH different pads as a CB than WW wears as a LB.

Again...even if WW weighed 220 or even 225. He has a long way to go to be a 3-4 LB

Look at the lower legs of WW compared to Karl Paymah. WW gots more arse which is what propels a person. The legs alone are 1/2 a person's weight but you can believe whatever you want. I'm not gonna convince you either way.


Denverbroncos.com does not update players weights.

I covered this already buddy. Move along now. Nothing left to see.

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 05:04 PM
I covered this already buddy. Move along now. Nothing left to see.

.

Yea, you "covered" it by quoting a couple other websites that dont update weight throughout the season, either...yet you completely ignore what the man himself says he weighs :lol:

turftoad
01-30-2009, 05:06 PM
Here's what I looks for. Paymah is WAY more cut than WW. So, most of his weight appears to be muscle weight, which obviously weighs more. WW just looks a little bigger...but not muscle-wise.

Also keep in mind that Paymah wears MUCH different pads as a CB than WW wears as a LB.

Again...even if WW weighed 220 or even 225. He has a long way to go to be a 3-4 LB

Looks like he could have an easier time losing 10 lbs to be a quicker Saftey to me.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 05:09 PM
Looks like he could have an easier time losing 10 lbs to be a quicker Saftey to me.

But why would he have to? Shanny compared him favorably to other safeties
as he was. Remember, Pro Bowler Lynch was about 225.

-----

turftoad
01-30-2009, 05:20 PM
But why would he have to? Shanny compared him favorably to other safeties
as he was. Remember, Pro Bowler Lynch was about 225.

-----

Some have been questioning his coverage speed.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 05:34 PM
Some have been questioning his coverage speed.

Well, as I mentioned, Shanny said WW is faster than most SS's, FWIW.

-----

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 05:35 PM
A good safety should be in the 220lb range anyways.

turftoad
01-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Saftey is where he should be then. We have plenty of need there also.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 05:54 PM
Saftey is where he should be then. We have plenty of need there also.

Who says he can play that position in the NFL?

I love the know it alls on this board.

.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 06:15 PM
Who says he can play that position in the NFL?

I love the know it alls on this board.

.

Can't you debate a topic without getting personal?

-----

xzn
01-30-2009, 06:22 PM
Physically WW is prototype for SS in the NFL. If you look up the triangle numbers on all the top SS prospects in this draft, or top SS in the league currently, WW is right in the height / weight / speed profile an evaluator would desire.

The issue is NOT wether he has the size / speed to play in-the-box safety but if he can make the jump to a new position mentally. It has been done but not very often or successfully.

I'd like to see him try. Especially if it means that we could use a second or third round pick on a different position. In a perfect world Barrett and Woodyard hold down our safety spots and a healthy Champ and Dre Bly allow us to concentrate FA and draft resources on the front seven.

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Physically WW is prototype for SS in the NFL. If you look up the triangle numbers on all the top SS prospects in this draft, or top SS in the league currently, WW is right in the height / weight / speed profile an evaluator would desire.

The issue is NOT wether he has the size / speed to play in-the-box safety but if he can make the jump to a new position mentally. It has been done but not very often or successfully.

I'd like to see him try. Especially if it means that we could use a second or third round pick on a different position. In a perfect world Barrett and Woodyard hold down our safety spots and a healthy Champ and Dre Bly allow us to concentrate FA and draft resources on the front seven.


Can he do it? That is the question. He's LB and it's easier to ask a LB to move to another LB spot than to have him move to a completely different position.

.

turftoad
01-30-2009, 06:32 PM
A good safety should be in the 220lb range anyways.


Saftey is where he should be then. We have plenty of need there also.


Who says he can play that position in the NFL?

I love the know it alls on this board.

.

:confused:

G_Money
01-30-2009, 06:33 PM
Boulware did it successfully a few years ago.

I think Woodyard can hold it down for us until we decide we need a Pro-Bowler there.

If we decide to go with Chung or somebody instead, though, then I just play Woodyard on special teams and as the backup.

I think he's a good player, but you don't rearrange your defense for just good players. If we were staying in the 4-3 I'd want him on the field at Will or SS if we need one of those positions filled, because he's a good player. If we signed a great MLB and DJ was playing the Will and we added a good SS, then Wesley's back to being a backup. There's nothing wrong with having good backups, especially when they're cheap.

So I feel the same about him at SS in a 3-4. It would be his only place of likely contribution, so I'd find out if he can be a good player there, and then use him as either the starter or the backup.

We have bigger issues than making sure Woodyard gets shoehorned into the lineup somewhere.

Because he's a good player, you'd like to see him on the field if it fits with the team build and scheme.

Sometimes that's not possible. We'll find out after draft day whether the Broncos offseason makes it probable, possible, or unlikely.

~G

G_Money
01-30-2009, 06:36 PM
Can he do it? That is the question. He's LB and it's easier to ask a LB to move to another LB spot than to have him move to a completely different position.

.

This isn't entirely true. He's a gamer with good instincts and speed who can make plays on a runner, a good tackler and leader, who's undersized against big blockers and has trouble fighting off blocks but can hang with RBs or TEs in pass coverage, but not a lot of wide receivers.

That's the definition of an in-the-box SS.

Not all LBs are asked to do the same things. The skills that Woodyard has as a Will in a 4-3 are more convertable to SS than they are to ILB or OLB in a 3-4, due to one less DL to hold blockers off the backers.

~G

Requiem / The Dagda
01-30-2009, 06:43 PM
I'd like to see Woodyard succeed here as well, but I don't see why there is shame in seeing that he could just be a valuable special teams and back-up guy for us. Not much else you can really ask for, he was undrafted. He did well for us last year and he deserves some praise and has earned a spot on this roster. Lets hope that he'll get the ability to compete and display his skills against whomever he faces in respect to his position.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 07:07 PM
Can he do it? That is the question. He's LB and it's easier to ask a LB to move to another LB spot than to have him move to a completely different position.

.

WW has already been a safety. He earned conference honors at the position
as a freshman in college. This has been mentioned several times on this board.

-----

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 07:30 PM
WW has already been a safety. He earned conference honors at the position
as a freshman in college. This has been mentioned several times on this board.

-----

hahaha! I'm aware and I mentioned it a few post ago. and I didn't know U. of Kentucky was in the NFL. :lol:

.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 07:33 PM
hahaha! I'm aware and I mentioned it a few post ago. and I didn't know Kentucky was in the NFL. :lol:

.

You made out like WW (1) had never played the position before, that he (2) is
moving to a strange position.

I simply pointed out that he (1) has, and he (2) is not, if he does move.

-----

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 07:40 PM
You made out like WW (1) had never played the position before, that he (2) is
moving to a strange position.

I simply pointed out that he (1) has, and he (2) is not, if he does move.

-----


Yes and I pointed that out that he played some safety but that was 3-4 years ago. I don't think 1 yr as a Freshman is enough to pencil the guy to be our safety in the upcoming year.

He's a LB, he played well as a LB as a rook. I'm simply stating my opinion that if the guy wants to be a permanent fixture on this new Broncos team, he'll have to bulk to 240lbs which is very easy for him to do and have him play side by side with DJ Williams as an ILB should Nolan implement his 3-4 game plan.

We'll see how much he does weigh come pre-season. My money says he'll be a lot closer to 230lbs+ than 212lbs.

.

topscribe
01-30-2009, 07:47 PM
Yes and I pointed that out that he played some safety but that was 3-4 years ago. I don't think 1 yr as a Freshman is enough to pencil the guy to be our safety in the upcoming year.

He's a LB, he played well as a LB as a rook. I'm simply stating my opinion that if the guy wants to be a permanent fixture on this new Broncos team, he'll have to bulk to 240lbs which is very easy for him to do and have him play side by side with DJ Williams as an ILB should Nolan implement his 3-4 game plan.

We'll see how much he does weigh come pre-season. My money says he'll be a lot closer to 230lbs+ than 212lbs.

.

Who's penciling him in? We are discussing the possibility.

Even Shanny saw the possibility. Since you know, maybe you ought to give the new coach a call. :coffee:

-----

Nature Boy
01-30-2009, 08:08 PM
Who's penciling him in? We are discussing the possibility.

Even Shanny saw the possibility. Since you know, maybe you ought to give the new coach a call. :coffee:

-----

He did below... \/



Saftey is where he should be then. We have plenty of need there also.


************************************************** **********

You're right though, we're just discussing the possibilities and your guess is just as good as mine. Al though I think I guessed right just like how WW is way bigger than 212lbs.

and yup, I just got off the wire with McD. I told him to have WW bulk up 15 extra lbs and we'll try him at ILB. I was also the one who told him to retain Dennison and Bobby Turner. I tried to get him to retain Jeremy Bates but McD said no, he wants to be Cutler's new buddy, not Jeremy and that he'll be directing Jay himself and he'll teach Jay himself our new play book.



:listen: :elefant: :cool:

.

LRtagger
01-30-2009, 08:55 PM
We'll see how much he does weigh come pre-season. My money says he'll be a lot closer to 230lbs+ than 212lbs.


Sure after an entire offseason of working out he can get up to 230 just like he did last year...but can he maintain that weight throughout the season while not lifting? He wasn't able to last year.

Superchop 7
01-30-2009, 10:29 PM
If we get a great NT (which we won't this year) it's 3-4.

If not, you better study the hell out of Jim Johnson.

Good answer, covers the bases.

56crash
01-30-2009, 10:53 PM
Williams will be "a big part" of 2009 defense

well unless some sucker give us a 3rd rounder ....

Cugel
01-31-2009, 03:32 AM
He was hurt for the majority of the season...

I understand there are no sacred cows on a defense that sucked as bad as ours, but what's with people singling out our best offensive player (Cutler) and our 2nd best defensive player (Williams) when we have like 34 other scrubs on the team to worry about?

I was thinking the same thing myself! :listen:

There are SOOO many spots on this feeble defense open to competition. The Broncos have 2 good defenders in DJ and Champ and one other guy who will probably keep his job in Dre Bly, if only because you can't change everyone at once and they have enough problems without trying to find a starting CB.

I would think adding 3 or 4 starting DL, 2 or 3 staring LBs and 2 starting safeties would be enough for any one off-season! Lay off DJ. :coffee: