No Sharpe in the Hall???

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Shannon Sharpe Doesn't Expect Hall of Fame Selection; He's Probably Right
by Michael David Smith

TAMPA, Fla. -- Shannon Sharpe retired after the 2003 season as the owner of three Super Bowl rings and of the NFL records for catches, yards and touchdowns by a tight end. But that may not be enough to get him into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Sharpe said today that he's not expecting to be chosen when the Hall of Fame's Board of Selectors meets on Saturday. And based on the Hall of Fame voters I've spoken with this week in Tampa, he's probably right: Sharpe isn't very likely to be picked.

It seems that Sharpe is considered by many voters to be the kind of player who contributed to good teams for a long time, but didn't really change the game the way two other players on the ballot for the first time this year, Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson, did. Sharpe is one of those players who, in the view of some voters, pretty well defines what a "very good" but not "great" player looks like.

Still, it's going to be a close enough vote that I wouldn't totally rule Sharpe out. Smith and Woodson appear to be the only locks, and at least four players will be chosen. So Sharpe could be a surprise pick, especially if some of the voters can be swayed by the way he performed in big games.

My own feeling is that Sharpe, like Art Monk and Cris Carter, put up good enough receiving numbers and played well for a long enough period of time that he's probably going to get in eventually. It's just a question of whether the voters will let him behind the curtain the first year he's eligible, or whether he'll have to wait a few years. Sharpe is bracing himself for the wait.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/28/s...es-proba/#cont

[TXBRONC]

How did Rod Woodson and Bruce Smith change the game?

Don't get me wrong, they were great players but they didn't change the game.

[MOtorboat]

This is seriously just wrong. Wrong.

How the **** does the best tight end ever NOT get in. ******* retarded. A ******* joke.

[TXBRONC]

This is seriously just wrong. Wrong.

How the **** does the best tight end ever NOT get in. ******* retarded. A ******* joke.

:whoknows:

[MOtorboat]

I apologize for the cursing, but this just irks me big time.

[Tned]

I think the fact that some of Sharpe's records were recently broken hurt him. When he retired, everyone was talking about him being a first ballot HOF guy. Now, he was just a 'good' player. :confused:

[MOtorboat]

I think the fact that some of Sharpe's records were recently broken hurt him. When he retired, everyone was talking about him being a first ballot HOF guy. Now, he was just a 'good' player. :confused:

The second-best tight end in NFL history (if that's what he's considered now) deserves to be a first-ballot hall of famer.

It's a joke.

I'm not criticizing you Tned, because you're rationalizing it, but it's just stupid.

What more do you have to do to be a HOFer?

[Tned]

The second-best tight end in NFL history (if that's what he's considered now) deserves to be a first-ballot hall of famer.

It's a joke.

I'm not criticizing you Tned, because you're rationalizing it, but it's just stupid.

What more do you have to do to be a HOFer?

I'm not rationalizing it, until reading this, I still figured he was a sure first ballot hall of famer. I'm just saying we are talkng about a 4 dozen or so reporters that vote on this, and I think that while almost all of them would have said he was a first ballot HOF'r when he retired, they have been influenced by the fact some of this records have fallen.

Bad logic in my mind, but the only way I can see they not voting him in and justifying it.

[G_Money]

Bret Favre has passed most of Elway's numbers.

Does that invalidate Elway's career?

Before Sharpe, teams used TEs to block and sometimes catch. The pass-catching TE as a weapon and not a safety valve was an anomaly. Including TEs as weapons and intentional mis-matches became the norm once Shannon started matching receiver numbers.

How is that not changing the game?

Hall voters are stupid.

~G

[Tned]

Hall voters are stupid.

~G

Yep, that about sums it up.

[dogfish]

he'll get in, but i never really expected him to go in on the first ballot. . . this is no surprise. . . . tight end just isn't a glamor position, even when you're one of the all-time greats. . .

[MOtorboat]

he'll get in, but i never really expected him to go in on the first ballot. . . this is no surprise. . . . tight end just isn't a glamor position, even when you're one of the all-time greats. . .

That makes it the only position where that will be true then.

[TXBRONC]

I think the fact that some of Sharpe's records were recently broken hurt him. When he retired, everyone was talking about him being a first ballot HOF guy. Now, he was just a 'good' player. :confused:

How did Smith put it?

"It seems that Sharpe is considered by many voters to be the kind of player who contributed to good teams for a long time, but didn't really change the game the way two other players on the ballot for the first time this year, Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson, did. Sharpe is one of those players who, in the view of some voters, pretty well defines what a "very good" but not "great" player looks like."

This is ridiculous. :tsk:

[Tned]

Peter King wrote this in '04 following Sharpe's retirement:


Sharpe will get my vote for the Hall of Fame when he becomes eligible in 2009, if I'm still one of the 39 selectors. He had more catches (815) for more yards (10,060) and more touchdowns (62) than any tight end in history, but he wasn't just a numbers collector. He could lay a linebacker out if that was the assignment. He could get open like a wideout when the play broke down, and when John Elway was scrambling, he was grateful to have Sharpe. Sharpe had great hands. He was a superb route-runner. Durable. Some loudmouths aren't good team guys, but Sharpe was a terrific team guy. He hinted late last season that he was going retire, but this winter he decided that, short of getting one of the prime TV gigs on a network show, he'd be back for one more run. CBS had experimented with him in the playoffs, and liked him. "They already had four on the show, and I think five makes it too jumbled,'' Sharpe said.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/05/24/king.mmqb/index.html

[TXBRONC]

Hall voters are stupid.

~G

More like arrogant butt plugs.

[slim]

"A good player"???

Good?

WTF is that?

[Superchop 7]

When I remember Shannon....it wasn't catching a ball.

It was John taking a look at the defense, knowing he needed him to block, he would change Shannons assignment.

Shannon would set up about a foot off the line.

And it was on.......



I remember a quote from an opposing player....."I had no idea he was that strong".


Shannon changed the game, he could block and catch with excellence.

[OrangeHoof]

he'll get in, but i never really expected him to go in on the first ballot. . . this is no surprise. . . . tight end just isn't a glamor position, even when you're one of the all-time greats. . .

Totally agree. I also think he'll have a few vote against him because he is such a loudmouthed trash-talker. That shouldn't count for anything but we all know sportswriters have their prejudices. Ironically, guys like Sharpe gave guys like Dr. Z all sorts of quotes to work with over the years but they'll turn around and pretentiously knock them for their trash talking while feeding off them.

[slim]

There is no way MDS knows what he is talking about here.

Dude is a 1st ballot HOF. I don't think that is disputable.

[MOtorboat]

There is no way MDS knows what he is talking about here.

Dude is a 1st ballot HOF. I don't think that is disputable.

It's not, but a bunch of these douche bags have talked their way out of voting for him.

I'm starting to agree with Mike Golic...if you're a hall of famer, you're a hall of famer, this ridiculous process (worse in baseball, but still) of only allowing a few in each year is just ludicrous.

There is NO way that any of the players nominated this year were as dominant at THEIR position than Shannon Sharpe. It's really sad that these jokesters who vote for this will find a false rationalization to NOT vote for him. It's ******* stupid.

[OrangeHoof]

Shannon changed the game, he could block and catch with excellence.

My enduring memory of Sharpe was the AFC Championship Game in Pittsburgh where the Broncos were deep in their own territory, nursing a small lead and needed a first down to seal the game. It was third down and Elway looked at the Steeler defense and realized they were coming with an all-out blitz. He told Sharpe something like "whatever you do, catch it".

Elway took the shotgun snap and threw his fastball at Sharpe who was draped by a defender but somehow got his paws on it and held on for the clinching first down. That wasn't easy and if the pass misconnected, the Steelers would get the punt around midfield with almost 2 minutes left to put together a game-winning drive.

Instead Terrell Davis made a first down on the next play and the Broncos were off to the Super Bowl - their first winning Super Bowl.

[slim]

It's not, but a bunch of these douche bags have talked their way out of voting for him.

I'm starting to agree with Mike Golic...if you're a hall of famer, you're a hall of famer, this ridiculous process (worse in baseball, but still) of only allowing a few in each year is just ludicrous.

There is NO way that any of the players nominated this year were as dominant at THEIR position than Shannon Sharpe. It's really sad that these jokesters who vote for this will find a false rationalization to NOT vote for him. It's ******* stupid.

It is stupid...and it is not going to happen.

I don't care what some douchebag reporter thinks he knows. If Shannon isn't elected ,then the HOF has NO credibility. I have $100 that says MDS is wrong.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I still think he goes in first ballot.

[Poet]

Being very good for a very long time is usually a good way to be a great player. The fact of the matter is that you can't name two Tight Ends who are better than he is.

Exactly what impact do you expect a Tight End to make? He put up WR numbers, for the love of god hes a fricking Tight End.

[TXBRONC]

It's not, but a bunch of these douche bags have talked their way out of voting for him.

I'm starting to agree with Mike Golic...if you're a hall of famer, you're a hall of famer, this ridiculous process (worse in baseball, but still) of only allowing a few in each year is just ludicrous.

There is NO way that any of the players nominated this year were as dominant at THEIR position than Shannon Sharpe. It's really sad that these jokesters who vote for this will find a false rationalization to NOT vote for him. It's ******* stupid.

Whose bright idea was it that the media should be the ones to decide who goes into the Hall of Fame?

[Poet]

How did Rod Woodson and Bruce Smith change the game?

Don't get wrong, they were great players but they didn't change the game.

Well Rod Woodson took away your best receiver completley. Bruce Smith was a defensive end and one of the best ever at that position. He definitely changed the game.

Honestly those should be the three who get in IMO.

[TXBRONC]

Well Rod Woodson took away your best receiver completley. Bruce Smith was a defensive end and one of the best ever at that position. He definitely changed the game.

Honestly those should be the three who get in IMO.

I watched Brue Smith play and yes he was very good but no didn't change the game.

Woodson was a great cover corner, but there have been many before him and many after him that did the same thing.

[slim]

Well Rod Woodson took away your best receiver completley. Bruce Smith was a defensive end and one of the best ever at that position. He definitely changed the game.

Honestly those should be the three who get in IMO.

There is no doubt about Smith. But Sharpe > Woodson

[MOtorboat]

I watched Brue Smith play and yes he was very good but no didn't change the game.

Woodson was a great cover corner, but there have been many before him and many after him that did the same thing.

And he declined in his later years and had to become a safety.

Sharpe NEVER declined. Never let up. He's STILL in football-shape.

This shouldn't even be a discussion.

[Poet]

I watched Brue Smith play and yes he was very good but no didn't change the game.

Woodson was a great cover corner, but there have been many before him and many after him that did the same thing.

Uh, when you are that dominant and you force double teams you are very much changing the game.

Woodson could very well be best cornerback ever. Sharpe is just as elite as though guys and those three should be in, but to say that they didn't change the game (especially in Woodson's case since changing the game is still relevant even if others have done it before you) is insane.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here is the process for the selection of HOF

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/SelectionProcessFAQ.jsp

[warcrychief]

Being very good for a very long time is usually a good way to be a great player. The fact of the matter is that you can't name two Tight Ends who are better than he is.

Exactly what impact do you expect a Tight End to make? He put up WR numbers, for the love of god hes a fricking Tight End.

Ozzie Newsome, and Kellen Winslow were better. And just for kicks so was Mike Ditka.

[Poet]

Ozzie Newsome, and Kellen Winslow were better. And just for kicks so was Mike Ditka.

I can't even describe how wrong that is.

[BeefStew25]

Ozzie Newsome, and Kellen Winslow were better. And just for kicks so was Mike Ditka.

Well, I am better at putting on my selt belt than Derrick Thomas.

[slim]

Well, I am better at putting on my selt belt than Derrick Thomas.

I am better at putting on a condom.

[slim]

Uh, when you are that dominant and you force double teams you are very much changing the game.

Woodson could very well be best cornerback ever. Sharpe is just as elite as though guys and those three should be in, but to say that they didn't change the game (especially in Woodson's case since changing the game is still relevant even if others have done it before you) is insane.

The best corner ever????

You just lost all credibility in this discussion.

[warcrychief]

Well, I am better at putting on my selt belt than Derrick Thomas.

Vary classy of you putting down a dead man. Witch could end up in the Hall of Fame.

[Poet]

The best corner ever????

You just lost all credibility in this discussion.

:tsk:

[BeefStew25]

Vary classy of you putting down a dead man. Witch could end up in the Hall of Fame.

Well, in defense of Derrick, he could spell better than you. Witch is kinda nice.

[slim]

Vary classy of you putting down a dead man. Witch could end up in the Hall of Fame.

He was a witch?

Wouldn't he really be called a warlock?

[MOtorboat]

Vary classy of you putting down a dead man. Witch could end up in the Hall of Fame.

Derrick Thomas would have been remembered for a lot of great football things, but he wasn't a good dude off the football field. Sorry.

If you want some sympathy, find a Chiefs site.

[warcrychief]

I can't even describe how wrong that is.

Yeah because there is no arguement. Thats why you cant describe.

[TXBRONC]

Uh, when you are that dominant and you force double teams you are very much changing the game.

Woodson could very well be best cornerback ever. Sharpe is just as elite as though guys and those three should be in, but to say that they didn't change the game (especially in Woodson's case since changing the game is still relevant even if others have done it before you) is insane.

No that not true. Against elite teams Smith wasn't doubled that much. I also remember watching four Super Bowls that Bill were in and Smith was for the most part pretty quite. If memory serves me correctly his best game was against the Giants.

Again there have been a multitude of shut down corners that came before Woodson and there will be multitude that will come after them.

How did they change the game? They didn't they were great players to be sure but change the way the game is played no.

You want the defintion of player who changed the game? Lawrence Taylor changed the game. Just ask Joe Gibbs how he changed his offense because of Taylor. He could take over a game all by himself.

[slim]

:tsk:

Shake your head all you want...but calling woodson the best corner ever is just stoopid.

[warcrychief]

Derrick Thomas would have been remembered for a lot of great football things, but he wasn't a good dude off the football field. Sorry.

If you want some sympathy, find a Chiefs site.

hmm recipient of Walter Payton award. I dont think Sharpe recieved that one before. and i think ill say 4 a bit :D

[Poet]

Yeah because there is no arguement. Thats why you cant describe.

I have never once heard ANYONE, fan, analyst, announcer say that Sharpe was not one of the true greats. And Ditka? Really? Ditka played in an era were you blocked first as a tight end. Sharpe is much better statistically even when you factor in their eras.

[Poet]

Shake your head all you want...but calling woodson the best corner ever is just stoopid.

Well first off I said he could very well be, which means he would have a legitimate argument, and he does. However, that does not mean that I did say he was the best.

[slim]

Well first off I said he could very well be, which means he would have a legitimate argument, and he does. However, that does not mean that I did say he was the best.

OK, thanks for clearing that up, homo.

[Poet]

OK, thanks for clearing that up, homo.

When I educate retards like you, it makes me feel like I've done something good for the day.

Thank you for being conveniently retarded Slim, you are good at what you do.

[slim]

When I educate retards like you, it makes me feel like I've done something good for the day.

Thank you for being conveniently retarded Slim, you are good at what you do.

That's what she said :listen:

[Poet]

That's what she said :listen:

I don't doubt that she said you're retarded. We all say that. :welcome:

[warcrychief]

I have never once heard ANYONE, fan, analyst, announcer say that Sharpe was not one of the true greats. And Ditka? Really? Ditka played in an era were you blocked first as a tight end. Sharpe is much better statistically even when you factor in their eras.

Sure i wont argue that. But i bet if you give Ditka, John Elway. He would be considered the best ever.

[slim]

Sure i wont argue that. But i bet if you give Ditka, John Elway. He would be considered the best ever.

What?

[BeefStew25]

How about you give Sharpe Trent Dilfer?

Man, I bet they wouldn't even come close to winning a super bowl.

[Poet]

Sure i wont argue that. But i bet if you give Ditka, John Elway. He would be considered the best ever.

Elway is one of the greatest football players ever, but he isn't so great that just by throwing the ball to you once or twice you become the GOAT.

;)

[slim]

Well first off I said he could very well be, which means he would have a legitimate argument, and he does. However, that does not mean that I did say he was the best.

BTW...I would love to hear the "legitimate argument", homo.

[warcrychief]

Elway is one of the greatest football players ever, but he isn't so great that just by throwing the ball to you once or twice you become the GOAT.

;)

Yeah your right that would be Bret Favre.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Favre is a douche

[slim]

Yeah your right that would be Bret Favre.

Or Brodie Croyle. Six of one and all that.

[Poet]

BTW...I would love to hear the "legitimate argument", homo.

Everyone knows that the man was a true shutdown corner. He was also a true beast as far as run stopping, a great ball hawk who is third all time on the list of INTS. He has a SB ring, he had longevity, and he was a pretty darn good blitzing CB too.

Yea, definitely doesn't have a legit argument.;)

[warcrychief]

Or Brodie Croyle. Six of one and all that.

Brodie is gone. And i am glad for that. He wont be our starter next year. Now that Herm is gone too.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Woodson is the shiz. Hated that dude, but he's all stud. He's a lock. Didn't he make that all anniversary team in the 90s?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Brodie is gone. And i am glad for that. He wont be our starter next year. Now that Herm is gone too.

Next stop...playoffs.:laugh:

[warcrychief]

Next stop...playoffs.:laugh:

no different than your team last year lol

[MOtorboat]

Yeah your right that would be Bret Favre.

Ha...

Seriously.

Um, moron.

[slim]

Everyone knows that the man was a true shutdown corner. He was also a true beast as far as run stopping, a great ball hawk who is third all time on the list of INTS. He has a SB ring, he had longevity, and he was a pretty darn good blitzing CB too.

Yea, definitely doesn't have a legit argument.;)

Oh, well if everyone knows it then I guess that is the end of the discussion.

Rod Woodson GOAT.

Sorry, but Night Train Lane and Mel Blount might disagree.

Your youth is showing.

[MOtorboat]

Brodie is gone. And i am glad for that. He wont be our starter next year. Now that Herm is gone too.

Tyler Thigpen...lolz

[warcrychief]

Tyler Thigpen...lolz

Yeah well im sure Pioli wont sit to long on Tyler as the starter. We will all see him work to find the Next Brady.

[MOtorboat]

Yeah well im sure Pioli wont sit to long on Tyler as the starter. We will all see him work to find the Next Brady.

Like Tyler Pigpen, lol...

Keep hoping.

[warcrychief]

Ha...

Seriously.

Um, moron.

dude take your ass glasses off lol its on too hard up Elway lol

[slim]

dude take your ass glasses off lol its no too hard up Elway lol

What?

[MOtorboat]

1993.

Later dude.

And if you seriously think Favre was a better quarterback than Elway, you're a complete moron.

FYI.

Montana, Marino...maybe I'd listen. But Favre? lolz.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

dude take your ass glasses off lol its on too hard up Elway lol

seriously? You just lost any credibility you previously pretended to have. Dude is arguably the greatest QB of all time. I'd say it's not really that easy to find someone better.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

1993.

Later dude.

And if you seriously think Favre was a better quarterback than Elway, you're a complete moron.

FYI.

Montana, Marino...maybe I'd listen. But Favre? lolz.

Montana is the only argument I'll listen to. Manning carries his team to another ring and maybe him too.

[warcrychief]

seriously? You just lost any credibility you previously pretended to have. Dude is arguably the greatest QB of all time. I'd say it's not really that easy to find someone better.

Elway comp 4,123, att 7,250, Pct 56.9, Yards 51,475, Ave 7.1, TD 300, Int 226, Rate 79.9.

Favre comp 5,720, att 9,280, Pct 61.6 Yards 65,127 Ave 7.0, TD 464, Int 310, Rate 85.4.

:D

[KCL]

Well, I am better at putting on my selt belt than Derrick Thomas.

that's low bief even if it is true!

[KCL]

Derrick Thomas would have been remembered for a lot of great football things, but he wasn't a good dude off the football field. Sorry.

If you want some sympathy, find a Chiefs site.

Why do you say he wasn't a good dude off the field? Because he fathered too many kids out of wedlock.Now LJ I would agree with you on if you had said him.

[KCL]

I have never once heard ANYONE, fan, analyst, announcer say that Sharpe was not one of the true greats. And Ditka? Really? Ditka played in an era were you blocked first as a tight end. Sharpe is much better statistically even when you factor in their eras.

I would say that Sharpe should get in.. 3 SB wins.And actually I think today the best TE is TG...even if he doesn't have a ring...sorry guys..slam me all you want.Look at the records he has broken and set.

[KCL]

Or Brodie Croyle. Six of one and all that.

Hey now slim...don't be knocking my guy Brodie....:pound:

[KCL]

Next stop...playoffs.:laugh:

One can only hope someday! :beer:

[warcrychief]

Why do you say he wasn't a good dude off the field? Because he fathered too many kids out of wedlock.Now LJ I would agree with you on if you had said him.

They just dont give the Walter Payton award out to any bum. Winners of that are on and off the field works.

[KCL]

Tyler Thigpen...lolz

Nothing wrong with Thigpen Mo...but I won't get into that here and now.

[KCL]

Like Tyler Pigpen, lol...

Keep hoping.

He wasn't around when Thiggy was signed....:rolleyes:

[KCL]

seriously? You just lost any credibility you previously pretended to have. Dude is arguably the greatest QB of all time. I'd say it's not really that easy to find someone better.

How about Aikman? How many SBs did he win?

[56crash]

I went to elways HOF enshrinement but never again until TD gets in they can talk crap all they want TD was the Best RB for 3 years and no none has come close ever to what he did in 98 and I believe no one ever will that was a huge amount he sit out two half's of games because his play had us so fare ahead.

[PatricktheDookie]

The legacy of Derrick Thomas is twice the player Derrick Thomas ever was.

[warcrychief]

The legacy of Derrick Thomas is twice the player Derrick Thomas ever was.

Not so fast. We havent had a decent defense sense he left us. And when he first came, he help us to the playoffs a number of times. He was our cornerstone. 7 sacks in one game. Most TEAMS would love that for a team stat.

[PatricktheDookie]

Let's not forget he was also a one-dimensional pass rushing specialist. Thomas averaged only 54 tackles a season (very low for a stud linebacker) and had a grant total of one interception in his NFL career.

Thomas blitzed on almost every down, of course he's going to have decent sack numbers. But I don't see him as a HoF'er. He was a great role player for a pretty good defense. But it wasn't until he died that I started hearing all the calls for him getting into Canton.

[warcrychief]

Yeah if i remember correctly, Sacks (126.5) are bigger than tackles. He also had 45 forced fumbles and 4 TD and 3 safties. He was a game changer.

[Northman]

Sharpe should get in but im used to Broncos getting snubbed.

[KCL]

Sharpe should get in but im used to Broncos getting snubbed.

:violin:

;)

:lol:

[KCL]

Let's not forget he was also a one-dimensional pass rushing specialist. Thomas averaged only 54 tackles a season (very low for a stud linebacker) and had a grant total of one interception in his NFL career.

Thomas blitzed on almost every down, of course he's going to have decent sack numbers. But I don't see him as a HoF'er. He was a great role player for a pretty good defense. But it wasn't until he died that I started hearing all the calls for him getting into Canton.

uh well since DT never had a chance to retire (God rest his soul)...you wouldn't have heard about him getting in until recently.. it hasn't been but what the last 3 or 4 years since his name has come up.He's been gone for almost 9 years now.

DT was a great player and was a huge part of the Chief's D back then.

[Dirk]

Back on track a little....

Sharpe deserves to go first time up. At the time of his retirement, he WAS the best TE in the game. :salute:

Woodson deserves to go first time up. Like him or not, the guy was a "solid" at his position.

Smith deserves to go first time up. He was a great DE. Any team would have loved to have had him because he was THAT good. Albeit Farve "gave" him the record when he took a dive. :laugh:

[Northman]

:violin:

;)

:lol:


Am i wrong?

[Nomad]

:violin:

;)

:lol:


Funny!

Who are the finalists on the HOF ballots, besides Woodson and Carter? I was watching NFL Live a while back and they were talking about Sharpe and they said he wouldn't make 1st ballot probably 3rd. I was never a fan of Chris Carter so it's bs that he gets in this soon!! The voters are bias so what's new!!:coffee:

[broncofaninfla]

I’m beginning to think there is conspiracy against the Broncos. Gradishar, Little, Atwater, Wright ALL should be in there RIGHT NOW. NONE are. It’s to the point that I don’t recognize the hall anymore. Kind of like the Grammys when Jethro Tull beat out Metalica. Sharpe is a first ballot, no doubt about it.

[LRtagger]

What more do you have to do to be a HOFer?


Not have played for the Broncos.

[BroncoJoe]

Bret Favre has passed most of Elway's numbers.

Does that invalidate Elway's career?

Before Sharpe, teams used TEs to block and sometimes catch. The pass-catching TE as a weapon and not a safety valve was an anomaly. Including TEs as weapons and intentional mis-matches became the norm once Shannon started matching receiver numbers.

How is that not changing the game?

Hall voters are stupid.

~G

I was going to post something similar. Anyone that says Sharpe didn't change the position of TE in the NFL never watched a game before Sharpe started playing.

[CoachChaz]

I was going to post something similar. Anyone that says Sharpe didn't change the position of TE in the NFL never watched a game before Sharpe started playing.

I'd say Kellen Winslow started that movement, but Sharpe definately left his mark.

[KCL]

Funny!

Who are the finalists on the HOF ballots, besides Woodson and Carter? I was watching NFL Live a while back and they were talking about Sharpe and they said he wouldn't make 1st ballot probably 3rd. I was never a fan of Chris Carter so it's bs that he gets in this soon!! The voters are bias so what's new!!:coffee:

Sometimes it takes years for a player to get in...Emmit Thomas that played for the Chiefs didn't get inducted til last year and he is 65 years old.He had a good career.I am just using him for an example.There are others as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmitt_Thomas

[Nomad]

Sometimes it takes years for a player to get in...Emmit Thomas that played for the Chiefs didn't get inducted til last year and he is 65 years old.He had a good career.I am just using him for an example.There are others as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmitt_Thomas

I thought your violin man was funny. He'll get to the HOF, but Chris Carter doesn't deserve the HOF before Sharpe!!

[broncofaninfla]

I thought your violin man was funny. He'll get to the HOF, but Chris Carter doesn't deserve the HOF before Sharpe!!

Neither does Woodson. Sharpe was every bit the player both of those guys were and more. In fact he has more rings than both combined.

[BroncoJoe]

I'd say Kellen Winslow started that movement, but Sharpe definately left his mark.

Definitely started it, but Sharpe defined it.

[KCL]

I thought your violin man was funny. He'll get to the HOF, but Chris Carter doesn't deserve the HOF before Sharpe!!

yea that violin man was saying "Don't whine"...LOL
I believe Sharpe will get there...may not be this time but eventually he will
be inducted.

[Slick]

Some of y'all must have never seen Rod Woodson play football. He was just as good a safety as he was a corner, also an excellent return man in his younger days. He's a first ballot HOFer if there's ever been one. Same with Cris Carter.

Sharpe will get in. I'm not worried about when.

[PatricktheDookie]

All Chris Carter does is...

[PatricktheDookie]

catch touchdowns!

[Northman]

Some of y'all must have never seen Rod Woodson play football. He was just as good a safety as he was a corner, also an excellent return man in his younger days. He's a first ballot HOFer if there's ever been one. Same with Cris Carter.

Sharpe will get in. I'm not worried about when.

Although i agree with your post i wouldnt put Woodson or Carter above Sharpe and vice versa. I dont think any of them are that much more outstanding than the other.

[Ziggy]

uh well since DT never had a chance to retire (God rest his soul)...you wouldn't have heard about him getting in until recently.. it hasn't been but what the last 3 or 4 years since his name has come up.He's been gone for almost 9 years now.

DT was a great player and was a huge part of the Chief's D back then.

DT was one of the great LB'ers ever to play in the NFL. If you want to count him out because he "blitzed on every play", then we'd need to take Lawrence Taylor out of the HOF. Derrick Thomas's numbers were better than LT's per game. He was a player that could take over a game single handedly, just like LT. Young people don't realize just how good DT was, but as a Broncos fan he was one of those guys you just hated to see Denver play against, because you knew that sooner or later he'd make a big play. Much like Howie Long.


Sharpe will get in. It may not be this year, but he'll get in.

[Slick]

Although i agree with your post i wouldnt put Woodson or Carter above Sharpe and vice versa. I dont think any of them are that much more outstanding than the other.

Absolutely. I'd vote all three of them in, Bruce Smith too.

I just thought questioning Woodson's qualifications was wrong.

[Bronco Bible]

The second-best tight end in NFL history (if that's what he's considered now) deserves to be a first-ballot hall of famer.

It's a joke.

I'm not criticizing you Tned, because you're rationalizing it, but it's just stupid.

What more do you have to do to be a HOFer?

Answer (even if it is a sucky answer)play in New York most of your career.:coffee:

[Ziggy]

Absolutely. I'd vote all three of them in, Bruce Smith too.

I just thought questioning Woodson's qualifications was wrong.

So do I.

[Ziggy]

Rod Woodson:

11 Time Pro Bowler
6 Time All Pro
1 Time NFL Defensive Player of the Year
71 Career Ints
32 Career Fumble Recoveries
229 Career Starts
17 TD's
7,256 Career Return Yards


I'm wondering how anyone could argue those qualifications.

[Northman]

Funny thing is, i think Woodson was better at Safety than CB and he was damn good there too.

[claymore]

Although i agree with your post i wouldnt put Woodson or Carter above Sharpe and vice versa. I dont think any of them are that much more outstanding than the other.


Absolutely. I'd vote all three of them in, Bruce Smith too.

I just thought questioning Woodson's qualifications was wrong.

What records did Woodson set?

[claymore]

Rod Woodson:

11 Time Pro Bowler
6 Time All Pro
1 Time NFL Defensive Player of the Year
71 Career Ints
32 Career Fumble Recoveries
229 Career Starts
17 TD's
7,256 Career Return Yards


I'm wondering how anyone could argue those qualifications.

I can argue that he wasnt the best ever, Sharpe was.

[Slick]

Rod Woodson:

11 Time Pro Bowler
6 Time All Pro
1 Time NFL Defensive Player of the Year
71 Career Ints
32 Career Fumble Recoveries
229 Career Starts
17 TD's
7,256 Career Return Yards


I'm wondering how anyone could argue those qualifications.

You can't.

[Northman]

What records did Woodson set?

Who cares?

Dude was one of the best players at his respective position (then went out of position) and deserves a spot in the HOF. Records dont tell the entire story of a HOF player in my book.

[Northman]

I can argue that he wasnt the best ever, Sharpe was.

Except Woodson was never a TE. So really you cant argue that. :lol:

[KCL]

I can argue that he wasnt the best ever, Sharpe was.

2 different guys playing 2 different positions clay...big difference in how
their careers panned out.

[PatricktheDookie]

DT was one of the great LB'ers ever to play in the NFL. If you want to count him out because he "blitzed on every play", then we'd need to take Lawrence Taylor out of the HOF. Derrick Thomas's numbers were better than LT's per game. He was a player that could take over a game single handedly, just like LT. Young people don't realize just how good DT was, but as a Broncos fan he was one of those guys you just hated to see Denver play against, because you knew that sooner or later he'd make a big play. Much like Howie Long.


Sharpe will get in. It may not be this year, but he'll get in.

Really mature subtle jab there. Yeah, I must be so young that I never saw DT play.

/golfclap

[Ziggy]

What records did Woodson set?

I thought the Hall of Fame was more about the body of work for a player than setting records. I do know that he holds the record for most career interceptions returned for TD's and most career Int yards though. I'm sure there's another record or 2 on his resume, but I'd have to dig some.

[KCL]

Really mature subtle jab there. Yeah, I must be so young that I never saw DT play.

/golfclap

No jab there...ziggy was just giving his opinion on DT.
You posted as if DT wasn't that good.

[Slick]

I can argue that he wasnt the best ever, Sharpe was.

Look, no one is saying Sharpe doesn't deserve it, but so the other guys.

...and I could mention John Mackey, Kellen Winslow, Ozzie Newsome...

Sharpe's mouth rubbed some people the wrong way, if he doesn't get in first ballot, I think that is why. Fair? Probably not, but he'll get in, we all know it. Why are we worried about it?

[claymore]

Except Woodson was never a TE. So really you cant argue that. :lol:
He wasnt the best safety, Corner, or returnman ever. Shannon Sharpe was the best TE ever.

[Northman]

No jab there...ziggy was just giving his opinion on DT.
You posted as if DT wasn't that good.


Thomas was one of the FEW defenders to actually be a pain in the ass to Elway and create havoc everytime we played against him. Dude was a beast of a playmaker. I remember when Neil Smith came to the good side that i said he should of grabbed Thomas too so he could get a ring. Sadly, that never transpired. But good for Neil. :D

[Ziggy]

Really mature subtle jab there. Yeah, I must be so young that I never saw DT play.

/golfclap

I wasn't singling you out or being disrespectful. I was making a point that the young people who never saw DT play, probably don't realize just how good he was. If I want to take a shot at you, I'll do it directly.

[KCL]

He wasnt the best safety, Corner, or returnman ever. Shannon Sharpe was the best TE ever.



was is right.

[Northman]

He wasnt the best safety, Corner, or returnman ever. Shannon Sharpe was the best TE ever.

Doesnt matter when it comes to the HOF. Its not like they accept a player for being #1 in something and then dump them out of the HOF when another player passes them by. Thats a silly arguement dude.

[claymore]

Look, no one is saying Sharpe doesn't deserve it, but so the other guys.

...and I could mention John Mackey, Kellen Winslow, Ozzie Newsome...

Sharpe's mouth rubbed some people the wrong way, if he doesn't get in first ballot, I think that is why. Fair? Probably not, but he'll get in, we all know it. Why are we worried about it?

Not saying that they dont deserve to get in. I am saying no one deserves to get in this year than Shannon.

If only one player was to get in it should be Shannon Sharpe.

[claymore]

Doesnt matter when it comes to the HOF. Its not like they accept a player for being #1 in something and then dump them out of the HOF when another player passes them by. Thats a silly arguement dude.

LOL are you serious? Being the single greatest player at the position matters a whole lot.

LMAO

[Northman]

LOL are you serious? Being the single greatest player at the position matters a whole lot.

LMAO

Read my post again. Now your just being stupid.

[Slick]

Not saying that they dont deserve to get in. I am saying no one deserves to get in this year than Shannon.

If only one player was to get in it should be Shannon Sharpe.

I give up. You win.

[KCL]

Thomas was one of the FEW defenders to actually be a pain in the ass to Elway and create havoc everytime we played against him. Dude was a beast of a playmaker. I remember when Neil Smith came to the good side that i said he should of grabbed Thomas too so he could get a ring. Sadly, that never transpired. But good for Neil. :D

Neil Smith going to Denver is another reason I am glad Carl is finally gone.I was so mad that he was let go but I am happy that he got his ring or was it rings? He did deserve that.

He lives somewhere close by me and I see him every now and then at the grocery store.

[claymore]

Read my post again. Now your just being stupid.real mature dumbass.


I give up. You win.

You dont have to agree, I came in at the end of it all. I personally dont like woodson. So Im a little biased. But if you take the personalities aside, and just look at the the positions them selves, I think Sharpe is more deserving than anyone (on this years list).

[claymore]

Read my post again. Now your just being stupid.

Oh and I did, it was still a funny post.

[Northman]

Oh and I did, it was still a funny post.

I forgive you. You do struggle with comprehension at times. :salute:

[claymore]

He wasnt the best safety, Corner, or returnman ever. Shannon Sharpe was the best TE ever.


Doesnt matter when it comes to the HOF. Its not like they accept a player for being #1 in something and then dump them out of the HOF when another player passes them by. Thats a silly arguement dude.


I forgive you. You do struggle with comprehension at times. :salute:

My argument was that Sharpe is considered the best Tight End ever by almost everyone. I have never heard Rod Woodson compared as the best Safety, corner or returnman by anyone.

How is that a silly argument?

Not saying woodson shouldnt be in the HOF. Just saying he shouldnt get in before Sharpe.

[Ziggy]

My argument was that Sharpe is considered the best Tight End ever by almost everyone. I have never heard Rod Woodson compared as the best Safety, corner or returnman by anyone.

How is that a silly argument?

Not saying woodson shouldnt be in the HOF. Just saying he shouldnt get in before Sharpe.

Clay, you're right about Sharpe being considered the best TE by nearly everyone when he retired. Rod Woodson wasn't considered the best corner or the best safety ever, but he was and still is considered by many the best DB ever.

This thread has turned into another pissing match. We are all in agreement that Sharpe should get in, so let's not forget that we're all on the same side here, huh? Man I hate the offseason.

[claymore]

Clay, you're right about Sharpe being considered the best TE by nearly everyone when he retired. Rod Woodson wasn't considered the best corner or the best safety ever, but he was and still is considered by many the best DB ever.

This thread has turned into another pissing match. We are all in agreement that Sharpe should get in, so let's not forget that we're all on the same side here, huh? Man I hate the offseason.

I agree completley. I will say one of the best all around DB ever though. :D

[KCL]

There are alot of players past and present that deserve to get in.Like I posted earlier...Emmit Thomas was inducted in 08 and he is 65 now.What took so long for him to get in.

When all is said and done I believe that Tony Gonzales will get in also.Will he get in right away? Maybe..maybe not but IMO he is going to be deserving of it one of these years.

[Slick]

There are alot of players past and present that deserve to get in.Like I posted earlier...Emmit Thomas was inducted in 08 and he is 65 now.What took so long for him to get in.

When all is said and done I believe that Tony Gonzales will get in also.Will he get in right away? Maybe..maybe not but IMO he is going to be deserving of it one of these years.

Oh, he's in, but he owes everything he ever did to Sharpe. ;)

[KCL]

Oh, he's in, but he owes everything he ever did to Sharpe. ;)

Nah...he owes it to his QBs and his blockers and himself...:D

[Ziggy]

There are alot of players past and present that deserve to get in.Like I posted earlier...Emmit Thomas was inducted in 08 and he is 65 now.What took so long for him to get in.

When all is said and done I believe that Tony Gonzales will get in also.Will he get in right away? Maybe..maybe not but IMO he is going to be deserving of it one of these years.

I think it depends on Gates. By the time Tony is eligible, Gates may be coming close to, or breaking his records. It's the same problem Tony caused Sharpe.

[KCL]

I think it depends on Gates. By the time Tony is eligible, Gates may be coming close to, or breaking his records. It's the same problem Tony caused Sharpe.

You're right...records are made to be broken IMO...and Gates or some other TE may break any or all the records that Tony holds right now!

[CoachChaz]

Nah...he owes it to his QBs and his blockers and himself...:D

I think he owes it to the Chiefs never having another recieving threat

[MOtorboat]

I think he owes it to the Chiefs never having another recieving threat

Carl Peterson's inability to find a good wide receiver.

[KCL]

I think he owes it to the Chiefs never having another recieving threat

Tony has been with the Chiefs his whole career...he has had a long time to set those records regardless of what receivers we've had through the years.

[KCL]

Carl Peterson's inability to find a good wide receiver.

Mo...no worries now....Carl is history! I know you hate that! :hahaha:

[CoachChaz]

Tony has been with the Chiefs his whole career...he has had a long time to set those records regardless of what receivers we've had through the years.

Sorry, but show me a great...not good...but great TE with a reasonably long career, who played his career with regular 1000 yard WR's.

Here's a list to help...

Top End
Kellen Winslow
Ozzie Newsome
Shannon Sharpe
Tony Gonzalez
John Mackey

Middle of the Pack
Ben Coates
Dave Casper
Todd Christensen

[KCL]

Sorry, but show me a great...not good...but great TE with a reasonably long career, who played his career with regular 1000 yard WR's.

Here's a list to help...

Top End
Kellen Winslow
Ozzie Newsome
Shannon Sharpe
Tony Gonzalez
John Mackey

Middle of the Pack
Ben Coates
Dave Casper
Todd Christensen

chaz the only thing I am saying here is that Tony has had years to get to where he is...I think you can agree with me on that.

[CoachChaz]

My top 5 TE's all time

1. Kellen Winslow - set all the benchmarks for TE's. Interestingly enough, it takes the best of TE's 10+ years to break the records he did in only 8 seasons...a few of which he missed time due to injury.

2. Shannon Sharpe - One of five receivers all time to have 50 catches or more in 11 straight seasons (Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Andre Reed, Marvin Harrison). Could have done more on a team with lesser receivers.

3. Ozzie Newsome - The first one to break all of Winslow's records. A staple of of the Browns offense and passing game for 12 seasons

4. John Mackey - First to bring speed and pass catching skills to the TE position. Essentially pioneered the TE to what it is today.

5. Tony Gonzalez - Could own every single TE record when it's said and done, but owes alot of that to the fact the Chiefs never had a regular Pro-Bowl level WR during his career.

[CoachChaz]

To keep with the point of this thread, here's a pecking order that makes sense.

Mackey set the standard...maybe we can throw Ditka in with him, but I think Mackey was better.

Then Jackie Smith came along Charlie Sanders came along and kind added a few things to what they did. Smith was a great reciever AND blocker and owned the records for awhile.

The next era brought us Dave Casper who was also a great blocker and receiver and the premier TE until Winslow came along shortly after. Winslow completely rewrote the record book in a brief time.

Next was Ozzie Newsome who might have been the first TE to be a primary receiver for his team. Ended up with the records when he retired.

Then along came Sharpe. The definition of a hybrid TE with WR skills. Took quite a few records of his own and reinvented the position.

The next class of greats was Gonzalez and Gates. Both expanded on the athleticism now used in the position and Gonzalez will eventually own all the records.

Ditka - HOF
Mackey - HOF
Smith - HOF
Sanders - HOF
Casper - HOF
Winslow - HOF
Newsome - HOF
Sharpe - ???
Gonzalez - Still playing, but easily will be HOF
Gates - Still playing, but if his career continues on this path, easy HOF


So tell me...what's missing from this?

[Broncospsycho77]

The Hall of Fame is an embarrassment to football. I've been there.

[KCL]

Oh come on chaz...we may not have had Pro Bowl type receivers but Tony hasn't always been the one that the QBs go to.You know better than that.
He shared the field with Kennison (yea I know Denver fans don't like him) and
for the past 2 season D Bowe.Plus others who have come and gone.

Still nothing can and should be taken away from Tony and how good of a player he still is.

[CoachChaz]

Oh come on chaz...we may not have had Pro Bowl type receivers but Tony hasn't always been the one that the QBs go to.You know better than that.
He shared the field with Kennison (yea I know Denver fans don't like him) and
for the past 2 season D Bowe.Plus others who have come and gone.

Still nothing can and should be taken away from Tony and how good of a player he still is.

I'm not taking anything away from Gonzalez...but put Sharpe on a team where the best WR he ever played with was Eddie Kennison and I guarantee you Gonzalez would never touch any of the records.

Look at it this way. You're a QB and you have a choice of throwing the ball to Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey and Shannon Sharpe. You really cant go wrong.

Now say you have the choice of going to Eddie Kennison, Dwayne Bowe or Tony Gonzalez. Guess who I'm looking for first every time.

[KCL]

I'm not taking anything away from Gonzalez...but put Sharpe on a team where the best WR he ever played with was Eddie Kennison and I guarantee you Gonzalez would never touch any of the records.

Look at it this way. You're a QB and you have a choice of throwing the ball to Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey and Shannon Sharpe. You really cant go wrong.

Now say you have the choice of going to Eddie Kennison, Dwayne Bowe or Tony Gonzalez. Guess who I'm looking for first every time.

Bowe has put up good numbers since he has been in KC and Kennison did as well.This past season Thigpen went to Tony alot...funny thing is most teams forgot about Tony and failed to cover him in most of our games.I can understand why Thigpen looked for him on just about every passing play.

[CoachChaz]

Bowe has put up good numbers since he has been in KC and Kennison did as well.This past season Thigpen went to Tony alot...funny thing is most teams forgot about Tony and failed to cover him in most of our games.I can understand why Thigpen looked for him on just about every passing play.

It's not limited to Thigpen. Gonzalez has lead the team in receptions for the last 9 years. Yes, Bowe looks like he could be a solid WR, but this is coming at the end of TG's career and regardless of Bowe's ability...TG is still the primary receiver.

Again...if Sharpe were used in the same capacity, TG wouldnt have a chance of beating his records.

[KCL]

It's not limited to Thigpen. Gonzalez has lead the team in receptions for the last 9 years. Yes, Bowe looks like he could be a solid WR, but this is coming at the end of TG's career and regardless of Bowe's ability...TG is still the primary receiver.

Again...if Sharpe were used in the same capacity, TG wouldnt have a chance of beating his records.

Well when you got it...you got it and Tony has definately got it.One of the best TEs in the NFL and will always be looked upon as such!

Besides when Tony becomes eligible for the HOF...They will look at the records he has broken and the ones he has set...they won't be saying...well the Chiefs never had a good WR...They'll be saying how Tony always found a way to get open and his ability to be able to catch the ball.In the end he will go down in NFL history as one of the best.

[claymore]

Well when you got it...you got it and Tony has definately got it.One of the best TEs in the NFL and will always be looked upon as such!

Besides when Tony becomes eligible for the HOF...They will look at the records he has broken and the ones he has set...they won't be saying...well the Chiefs never had a good WR...They'll be saying how Tony always found a way to get open and his ability to be able to catch the ball.In the end he will go down in NFL history as one of the best.

Thats what I thought about Sharpe. It all comes down to Media favorites though. If Sharpe doesnt make it tomorrow Im going to be pissed.

[KCL]

Thats what I thought about Sharpe. It all comes down to Media favorites though. If Sharpe doesnt make it tomorrow Im going to be pissed.

If you need some comfort...you can call me clay...:D

[CoachChaz]

Tony is easily one of the best TE's to ever play the game and belongs in the HOF. No doubt.

My point is...Sharpe was just as good and deserves to be there equally.

[KCL]

Tony is easily one of the best TE's to ever play the game and belongs in the HOF. No doubt.

My point is...Sharpe was just as good and deserves to be there equally.

Totally agree....I have posted that Sharpe should get there.

[Poet]

No that not true. Against elite teams Smith wasn't doubled that much. I also remember watching four Super Bowls that Bill were in and Smith was for the most part pretty quite. If memory serves me correctly his best game was against the Giants.

Again there have been a multitude of shut down corners that came before Woodson and there will be multitude that will come after them.

How did they change the game? They didn't they were great players to be sure but change the way the game is played no.

You want the defintion of player who changed the game? Lawrence Taylor changed the game. Just ask Joe Gibbs how he changed his offense because of Taylor. He could take over a game all by himself.


So because of bad play in the Superbowls he wasn't a game changer? Based on four games?


If you are a dominant DE you are going to change the game because teams will always have to account for you more than they do for other players. It's that simple. I don't understand the mentality that you have here. Trivializing other great players doesn't do Sharpe much here, in fact it really makes you look like you are making arguments up in order to support your player, which in turn makes him look like he needs it.

[Poet]

Oh, well if everyone knows it then I guess that is the end of the discussion.

Rod Woodson GOAT.

Sorry, but Night Train Lane and Mel Blount might disagree.

Your youth is showing.

And your ignorance in old age is showing. I said he had a good argument for it, and he does. Not once did I say that he was, in fact you can't even come close to saying that's what I said, because it isn't.

[CoachChaz]

I have to say I'm shocked to hear people say Woodson wasnt one of the greatest ever.

[TXBRONC]

So because of bad play in the Superbowls he wasn't a game changer? Based on four games?


If you are a dominant DE you are going to change the game because teams will always have to account for you more than they do for other players. It's that simple. I don't understand the mentality that you have here. Trivializing other great players doesn't do Sharpe much here, in fact it really makes you look like you are making arguments up in order to support your player, which in turn makes him look like he needs it.

Don't accuse me of tivializing what Smith and Woodson did. I haven't done that in the least I said they great players. Apparently you didn't really my example of a game changer. Lawerance Taylor . Joe Gibbs changed his offense because of Taylor.

Those four Super Bowls speak volumes. If was the great game changer you claim he was then why didn't make more of impact in four straight Super Bowls? For a game changer he sure as hell didn't do much to help his defense play better in four straight Super Bowls.

I'm making Sharpe look bad by bantering back and forth with you? Well it's not like what you and I say has any impact on whether or not Sharpe gets into the Hall of Fame. Sharpe's resume speaks for itself he was great player and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

[Poet]

Do accuse me of tivializing what Smith and Woodson did. I haven't done that in the least I said they great players. Apparently you didn't really my example of a game changer. Lawerance Taylor . Joe Gibbs changed his offense because of Taylor.

Those four Super Bowls speak volumes. If was the great game changer you claim he was then why didn't make more of impact in four straight Super Bowls? For a game changer he sure as hell didn't do much to help his defense play better in four straight Super Bowls.

I'm making Sharpe look bad by bantering back and forth with you? Well its not like what you and I say has any impact on whether or not Sharpe gets into the Hall of Fame. Sharpe's resume speaks for itself he was great player and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.


Well, I am accusing you of doing it because............oh you are. Sorry about that.

Rod Woodson took away your best WR. If you had to throw the ball near him he was probably going to knock the ball down, or pick it off. That does change the game, it directly impacts how you can run your offense.

When you have a dominant DE, and that's exactly what Smith was it does change how you play. You usually run the ball more, you double him, you always account for him.

And no, those four super bowls don't speak volumes, not even close. Those were four individual games across a very long and successful career. I'm sorry, but that would be like me going "The three SBs Elway lost speak volumes about his career." :rolleyes:

And yes, when you start making up garbage and try to use it to boast your boy's argument you do make him look bad. Sure, it doesn't matter for Sharpe because unfortunately we don't have votes. But that doesn't change what you're doing.

[OrangeHoof]

changing the game is still relevant even if others have done it before

That's a (to be kind) less that intelligent comment. Reminds me of a radio commercial I once heard promoting the PBS series "Baseball" by Ken Burns in which the series was endorsed with the following statement: "It helped me to recall childhood memories that I had never had." You have to go over that sentence several times to get the full extent of the idiocy of it.

I suppose it is true that you can change the game as others before have changed it but to say others have "done it before" means you didn't change it. You merely altered something that was already there, such as if a QB brought back the single wing. Was a new defensive formation created for Rod Woodson? Did teams have to redesign their offenses to stop Rod Woodson? No. Rod Woodson was an athletic corner and later a safety who played at a high level but I don't buy that he changed the game much less changed it the way others before him had changed it. We didn't always call them "shut down corners" but they existed long before Woodson and have continued long since. To say Woodson excelled to the point of "changing the game", is a gross overexaggeration.

The WCO changed the game. The deep-threat TE (which you can trace back to John Mackey in the late 1960s) changed the game. The TE-WR hybrid (which I would trace back to Kellen Winslow Sr.) changed the game. But I don't see how Woodson or Sharpe changed the game.

Bruce Smith one might credit simply because he was the first of the undersized ultra-quick DEs that changed the defensive front lines to something besides a test of bulk and brawn to one where OTs needed to be light on their feet in order to stop a speed rush from the likes of Smith. LTs, in particular, needed to demonstrate they had the quickness to stay with speed rushers as well as have the strength to push guys out of the way. That, I would say, is "changing the game".

Okay, on second thought, maybe you are crediting Woodson for being the pioneer of the "corner blitz". Although, I would say that was the creation of the Steelers' Defensive Coordinator (Dom Capers, I think), not Woodson just as the "zone blitz" concept wasn't the creation of the d-lineman who dropped into coverage as much as the DC who drew it up.

[OrangeHoof]

Vary classy of you putting down a dead man. Witch could end up in the Hall of Fame.

Nobody here called Derrick Thomas a witch. Well, except you.

[claymore]

That's a (to be kind) less that intelligent comment. Reminds me of a radio commercial I once heard promoting the PBS series "Baseball" by Ken Burns in which the series was endorsed with the following statement: "It helped me to recall childhood memories that I had never had." You have to go over that sentence several times to get the full extent of the idiocy of it.

I suppose it is true that you can change the game as others before have changed it but to say others have "done it before" means you didn't change it. You merely altered something that was already there, such as if a QB brought back the single wing. Was a new defensive formation created for Rod Woodson? Did teams have to redesign their offenses to stop Rod Woodson? No. Rod Woodson was an athletic corner and later a safety who played at a high level but I don't buy that he changed the game much less changed it the way others before him had changed it. We didn't always call them "shut down corners" but they existed long before Woodson and have continued long since. To say Woodson excelled to the point of "changing the game", is a gross overexaggeration.

The WCO changed the game. The deep-threat TE (which you can trace back to John Mackey in the late 1960s) changed the game. The TE-WR hybrid (which I would trace back to Kellen Winslow Sr.) changed the game. But I don't see how Woodson or Sharpe changed the game.

Bruce Smith one might credit simply because he was the first of the undersized ultra-quick DEs that changed the defensive front lines to something besides a test of bulk and brawn to one where OTs needed to be light on their feet in order to stop a speed rush from the likes of Smith. LTs, in particular, needed to demonstrate they had the quickness to stay with speed rushers as well as have the strength to push guys out of the way. That, I would say, is "changing the game".

Okay, on second thought, maybe you are crediting Woodson for being the pioneer of the "corner blitz". Although, I would say that was the creation of the Steelers' Defensive Coordinator (Dom Capers, I think), not Woodson just as the "zone blitz" concept wasn't the creation of the d-lineman who dropped into coverage as much as the DC who drew it up.

Even I know you cant say that. You cant "diss" a guy, and **** up your first sentence. I hope Mo, or 77 see's this.

[claymore]

Originally Posted by warcrychief View Post
Vary classy of you putting down a dead man. Witch could end up in the Hall of Fame.
Very......... Its Very.........

JHC..........:tsk:

[nevcraw]

I'd say Kellen Winslow started that movement, but Sharpe definately left his mark.

Winslow was a drama queen, playing the TE postition. Sharpe was a bad Mudda Rucker

[Broncospsycho77]

Very......... Its Very.........

JHC..........:tsk:

You missed the second part, too.

"Witch" should be "Which".

[nevcraw]

I think DT was a great player for his time in the league. He was feared and took over games with the help of Neil Smith.
His biggest knock was the whole world watched Sharpe totally get into head in a Monday night game where he ended up getting I think 2 personal fouls in row and was totally demoralized by sharpes mouth and will. It pretty much ripped down all he had accomplished before that. As a Bronco fan I could not have been more proud...

[claymore]

You missed the second part, too.

"Witch" should be "Which".
Im just happy I found the first thing!

[OrangeHoof]

Oh come on chaz...we may not have had Pro Bowl type receivers but Tony hasn't always been the one that the QBs go to.You know better than that.
He shared the field with Kennison (yea I know Denver fans don't like him) and
for the past 2 season D Bowe.Plus others who have come and gone.

Still nothing can and should be taken away from Tony and how good of a player he still is.

Can anyone name a Chiefs wide receiver who made the Pro Bowl? (Dainty Hall doesn't count because the only way he makes the Pro Bowl is as a kick returner and we all know it).

Seriously, after Stephone Paige, have the Chiefs had a WR that made the Pro Bowl?

[KCL]

Im just happy I found the first thing!

Damn clay...did he take spelling lesson from you?

[KCL]

I think DT was a great player for his time in the league. He was feared and took over games with the help of Neil Smith.
His biggest knock was the whole world watched Sharpe totally get into head in a Monday night game where he ended up getting I think 2 personal fouls in row and was totally demoralized by sharpes mouth and will. It pretty much ripped down all he had accomplished before that. As a Bronco fan I could not have been more proud...

Nope you're wrong...it was 4 personal fouls.:lol:

[topscribe]

Since when did this start being a spelling class?

C'mon guys, you're going to run him off. I see all kinds of misspelled words on this board. :noidea:

-----

[KCL]

Can anyone name a Chiefs wide receiver who made the Pro Bowl? (Dainty Hall doesn't count because the only way he makes the Pro Bowl is as a kick returner and we all know it).

Seriously, after Stephone Paige, have the Chiefs had a WR that made the Pro Bowl?

I would have to look that up because I am not even sure!

[KCL]

Since when did this start being a spelling class?

C'mon guys, you're going to run him off. I see all kinds of misspelled words on this board. :noidea:

-----

ah top...he's a noobie and a Chiefs fan...he is bound to get it for having opposing views and as far as misspelled words...clay takes the cake on that one.:D

[topscribe]

ah top...he's a noobie and a Chiefs fan...he is bound to get it for having opposing views and as far as misspelled words...clay takes the cake on that one.:D

Clay's not going anywhere.

I've already tried to run him off . . .

-----

[KCL]

Clay's not going anywhere.

I've already tried to run him off . . .

-----

I don't want clay going anywhere! well except maybe one place but I won't say where...:laugh:

[topscribe]

I don't want clay going anywhere! well except maybe one place but I won't say where...:laugh:

You're not a nice person.

I like you! :D

-----

[Hobe]

The "all time best player at his position" should be in the hall. Is that rocket surgery? No!!!

I'd say more about the "hall voters" but it would just be a butch of ***** *** **** ****!

[KCL]

You're not a nice person.

I like you! :D

-----

Hey now I didn't say where....:laugh:
I like you also!

[Nature Boy]

Hey now I didn't say where....:laugh:
I like you also!


Shannon Sharpe is/was better than Tony Gonzalez.


:cool:

.

[KCL]

Shannon Sharpe is/was better than Tony Gonzalez.


:cool:

.

Was is right!

[warcrychief]

I think he owes it to the Chiefs never having another recieving threat

Yeah he only had to work threw so many double teams his whole time in KC.

[claymore]

Yeah he only had to work threw so many double teams his whole time in KC.

He can prove it with his Super Bowl rings.

[warcrychief]

My top 5 TE's all time

1. Kellen Winslow - set all the benchmarks for TE's. Interestingly enough, it takes the best of TE's 10+ years to break the records he did in only 8 seasons...a few of which he missed time due to injury.

2. Shannon Sharpe - One of five receivers all time to have 50 catches or more in 11 straight seasons (Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Andre Reed, Marvin Harrison). Could have done more on a team with lesser receivers.

3. Ozzie Newsome - The first one to break all of Winslow's records. A staple of of the Browns offense and passing game for 12 seasons

4. John Mackey - First to bring speed and pass catching skills to the TE position. Essentially pioneered the TE to what it is today.

5. Tony Gonzalez - Could own every single TE record when it's said and done, but owes alot of that to the fact the Chiefs never had a regular Pro-Bowl level WR during his career.

so what do you say about Tony Gonzalez never really having a HOF QB in his whole career? OUTSTANDING to me. Along with no other wideout to take the heat. Just awesome.

[KCL]

He can prove it with his Super Bowl rings.

Well clay if SB rings are all that is required to get a player into the HOF...Then there would be alot more players inducted.Take all the teams that have won SBs.All the players get a ring whether they are starters or 2nd or 3rd string players.Do those guys deserve to get into the HOF?

[56crash]

Back on track a little....

Sharpe deserves to go first time up. At the time of his retirement, he WAS the best TE in the game. :salute:

Woodson deserves to go first time up. Like him or not, the guy was a "solid" at his position.

Smith deserves to go first time up. He was a great DE. Any team would have loved to have had him because he was THAT good. Albeit Farve "gave" him the record when he took a dive. :laugh:

you know Woodson talks shit about TD on NFL.net but pressed he says TD was special ! he does not just give that out ...Like I said until TD gets in I will look at the HOF as the SH## house of fame

[56crash]

come on guys Steve Atwater would be first ballot on any team in the NFL on the Broncos he is in a long ass line !

[56crash]

and to the chive fans oops I mean Harpies fans when ass piece shit wakes up and takes care of his kids talk to us because the last I checked he could give a rats ass about his kids/..

[KCL]

and to the chive fans oops I mean Harpies fans when ass piece shit wakes up and takes care of his kids talk to us because the last I checked he could give a rats ass about his kids/..

who are you talking about?

[lex]

Yeah he only had to work threw so many double teams his whole time in KC.


The Chiefs never had a running game to keep the LBs honest? Granted, so did Sharpe. In fact, he also blocked for a 2,000 yard rusher, which Gonzalez had not done. But really, both were great and both Sharpe and Gonzo should be first ballot guys. Sharpe was just as good though. He was more mobile/fluid, whereas, Gonzo was better in tight quarters with his basketball background. But its also true that the same reason Gonzalez has had slightly better stats is the same reason Sharpe has 3 SB rings and Gonzalez has none. Sharpe played on better teams, meaning there were other options to go to.

[warcrychief]

The Chiefs never had a running game to keep the LBs honest? Granted, so did Sharpe. In fact, he also blocked for a 2,000 yard rusher, which Gonzalez had not done. But really, both were great and both Sharpe and Gonzo should be first ballot guys. Sharpe was just as good though. He was more mobile/fluid, whereas, Gonzo was better in tight quarters with his basketball background. But its also true that the same reason Gonzalez has had slightly better stats is the same reason Sharpe has 3 SB rings and Gonzalez has none. Sharpe played on better teams, meaning there were other options to go to.

Yeah kinda helps to have a HOF QB for all those numbers too. Wait Gonzalez never had one of those did he?

[lex]

Yeah kinda helps to have a HOF QB for all those numbers too. Wait Gonzalez never had one of those did he?

You already said that and I already responded to it.

[lex]

Well clay if SB rings are all that is required to get a player into the HOF...Then there would be alot more players inducted.Take all the teams that have won SBs.All the players get a ring whether they are starters or 2nd or 3rd string players.Do those guys deserve to get into the HOF?


Rings have held huge sway in the past.

[WARHORSE]

Should be first ballot HOFer.


THerefore, if he doesnt get in, I will fire all the voters, deeming them IGNORANT of the requirements.

[TXBRONC]

Well, I am accusing you of doing it because............oh you are. Sorry about that.

Rod Woodson took away your best WR. If you had to throw the ball near him he was probably going to knock the ball down, or pick it off. That does change the game, it directly impacts how you can run your offense.

When you have a dominant DE, and that's exactly what Smith was it does change how you play. You usually run the ball more, you double him, you always account for him.

And no, those four super bowls don't speak volumes, not even close. Those were four individual games across a very long and successful career. I'm sorry, but that would be like me going "The three SBs Elway lost speak volumes about his career." :rolleyes:


And yes, when you start making up garbage and try to use it to boast your boy's argument you do make him look bad. Sure, it doesn't matter for Sharpe because unfortunately we don't have votes. But that doesn't change what you're doing.


Then your reading comprehesion leaves a lot to be desired. I never didn't said they didn't belong in the Hall of Fame did I? :coffee:

[TheBear]

Now that it is official that he did not make even the top five there is definitely something wrong with the whole system.

[Davii]

I call BS that Sharpe didn't make it. Ridiculous, the system is broken.

[Shazam!]

Sharpe bypassed for Hall of Fame
Rocky staff
Published January 31, 2009

Former Broncos tight end Shannon Sharpe, who played for the team in 12 of his 14 professional seasons, was not elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Saturday.

Defensive standouts Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson were elected on their first try, while former commissioner Paul Tagliabue was denied for the third straight year.

Also picked Saturday were longtime Bills owner Ralph Wilson; late Chiefs linebacker Derrick Thomas; former Vikings guard Randall McDaniel; and former Cowboys standout Bob Hayes.

Inductions will be Aug. 8 in Canton, Ohio.

Full story to come.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/jan/31/sharpe-elected-hall-fame/

[honz]

Ridiculous. He was one of the best TE's to ever play the game and he pretty much revolutionized the position. I'm not sure what the voters were thinking on this one.

[Thnikkaman]

Ridiculous. He was one of the best TE's to ever play the game and he pretty much revolutionized the position. I'm not sure what the voters were thinking on this one.

That Sharpe is a Bronco. There is no way in hell they would induct a Bronco two years in a row.

[spikerman]

Ridiculous. He was one of the best TE's to ever play the game and he pretty much revolutionized the position. I'm not sure what the voters were thinking on this one.
They were thinking, "He definitely deserves to be in, BUT he played for the Broncos so there's no way I'm voting for him".

[spikerman]

That Sharpe is a Bronco. There is no way in hell they would induct a Bronco two years in a row.Beat me to it.

[WARHORSE]

Theyre all fired.


I, the fan, fire them all.

You suck.

[TXBRONC]

It's a travisty that Sharpe didn't get in. I pretty sure he will eventually get I just hope he doesn't have to wait for 10 or 15 years. :tsk:

[spikerman]

How much do you want to bet that if Tony Gonzalez retired tomorrow he would be a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer? For the record, I think he should be, but Sharpe deserves to be in there now. I'm sorry, I know he's the sentimental pick, but I think Sharpe should have gone in instead of Derrick Thomas.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jim Armstrong and Sandy Clough are discussing Shannon not making it right now on FM1043.The Fan, and they are totally beside themselves. Jim made the comment - "What's the newest spin now to keep Shannon out of the hall", and then he answered - "No new spin, just the latest SNUBBING of another Bronco".

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/home.cfm

[Bronco Bible]

Yeah kinda helps to have a HOF QB for all those numbers too. Wait Gonzalez never had one of those did he?

Nice try but b.s. Shannon is an h.o.f. player period besides the fact (I think someone already pointed out ) TG was about all KC qb's had .

[warcrychief]

Good luck to Sharpe next year. i wont say he doesnt deserve it. But every one pays there dues before they walk up those steps. And for the rest of you that put down a current HOF (Derrick Thomas) your a sad person for even to keep putting him down after everyone else is celebrating his accomplishments.

[claymore]

The Derrick Thomas pick was ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Shows how bad the Denver writers are. One of the best TE's ever if not the best, and he lost to a guy that died. LOL

[spikerman]

And for the rest of you that put down a current HOF (Derrick Thomas) your a sad person for even to keep putting him down after everyone else is celebrating his accomplishments.So we're not allowed to disagree with the selection? There are a few people in the HoF that I don't think should be there. Derrick Thomas is just another one.

[UnderArmour]

This is such bullshit. Those 3 Super Bowl rings mean nothing? Retiring as the best of all time at his position means nothing? The Hall of Fame selection process is a joke. This is absolutely inexcusable for Shannon Sharpe not to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. We go to 5 Super Bowls, win 2, and only have 2 Broncos in the Hall? Bullshit.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_11599170?source=rss

TAMPA, FLA. — If it's about the Broncos and the Pro Football Hall of Fame, the operative term is patience.

Shannon Sharpe owned all the significant tight end receiving records by the time he retired following the 2003 season. But Sharpe played 12 of his 14 NFL seasons with the Broncos.

Sharpe will have to wait.

He has not yet followed John Elway and Gary Zimmerman as Broncos players who have reached Canton, Ohio as a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Not yet, anyway.

Although Sharpe made the cut from 17 finalists to 10, he was not among the six chosen for the Hall of Fame class of 2009.

"Obviously, there's disappointment," Sharpe said. "But am I any more disappointed than any of the other guys who made it to the final 10 and didn't get in? Probably not. Sunshine follows rain. We'll try it again. Hopefully, I'll get back on the ballot and I'll get back in this situation and hopefully I'll get in."

The 44-member Hall of Fame voting committee came up with a major surprise Saturday when it snubbed not only Sharpe but receiver Cris Carter, who retired No. 2 all-time among receptions. Instead, the committee elected longtime Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson Jr.

Also elected Saturday were defensive end Bruce Smith, safety Rod Woodson, offensive guard Randall McDaniel, outside linebacker Derrick Thomas and one senior candidate, receiver Bob Hayes.

Thomas and Hayes were honored posthumously. Another surprise was a second senior nominee, former Atlanta defensive end Claude Humphrey, did not receive the necessary 80 percent of the vote for election.

Sharpe, Carter and guard Russ Grimm were the three modern-era candidates who made the cut to 10 on Saturday, but did not get further.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055@denverpost.com.

[TXBRONC]

It's travesty that Sharpe got snubbed but he still has the satisfaction of knowing he played on three teams that won the Super Bowl.

[warcrychief]

The Derrick Thomas pick was ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Shows how bad the Denver writers are. One of the best TE's ever if not the best, and he lost to a guy that died. LOL

Claymore calm down there are 40 writers that vote on this not just DENVER. Sharpe will have his day. Now lets just celebrate someone more deserving DT :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jim Armstrong just said "Bronco Fans - you can now take this personal - they have said once again that the Broncos are second rate, and so are their fans".

I for one am taking this DAMN personal - There is no way, with the Broncos playing football for 48 years - that they are WORTHY of ONLY having 2 players in 48 years in the HOF!!!!!!!!

[WARHORSE]

The Derrick Thomas pick was ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Shows how bad the Denver writers are. One of the best TE's ever if not the best, and he lost to a guy that died. LOL


Does that make Thomas less of a player simply because he lost his life prematurely??

Not a very respectful comment imo. :tsk:


Derrick Thomas was a beast off the edge.


Ask Elway.

[dogfish]

i can't believe they didn't select chris carter. . . if he doesn't make it, i guess i have no idea what the criterion is :confused: -- at least shay is in good company. . .

but they managed to find room for yet another cowgirl, what a shock. . . .


:rolleyes:

[Bronco Bible]

Thomas I can understand... but Randall McDaniel:confused:

[spikerman]

i guess i have no idea what the criterion is :confused:
:rolleyes:You're in good company with the sportswriters who are actually voting. :D

[warcrychief]

i can't believe they didn't select chris carter. . . if he doesn't make it, i guess i have no idea what the criterion is :confused: -- at least shay is in good company. . .

but they managed to find room for yet another cowgirl, what a shock. . . .


:rolleyes:

yeah and thats not good for him. because he goes up against Rice and Emmit Smith next year that are locks.

[dogfish]

Thomas I can understand... but Randall McDaniel:confused:


one of the best guards to ever play the game-- he and gary zimmerman were a completely dominant left side when they played together. . . i think he absolutely belongs in the hall, but i don't see how his career was better than carter or sharpe. . . .

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Check out the following link, which shows HOF members, by team/franchise, and includes this year's members:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.html

[spikerman]

Check out the following link, which shows HOF members, by team/franchise, and includes this year's members:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/teams.html
Thank you Carol, but if I click that link I'm only going to get depressed.

[Poet]

You're in good company with the sportswriters who are actually voting. :D

I heard John Clayton talk about how at the meetings people would barter. If you vote for my guy I'll vote for your guy.

The sad part is that I believe it.

[LRtagger]

yeah and thats not good for him. because he goes up against Rice and Emmit Smith next year that are locks.

I dunno Rice spent some time with the Broncos, he may be a second ballot guy.

[spikerman]

I dunno Rice spent some time with the Broncos, he may be a second ballot guy.

Oh crap! He might not get in at all! I'm sure some Cowboys' third string receiver from the early 90s will be eligible too!

[Bozo Jr.]

This is hard to believe. I guess it's "unbelievable".

[Poet]

What really bugs me is that out of the six spots that are up each year, coaches and owners and the like compete for the same spots.

You would think that players would "compete" with each other for player spots, and the owners/gms/coaches/whoever else would compete against each other, or even smaller categories like owners vs owners, gms vs gms.

It's weak.

[spikerman]

What really bugs me is that out of the six spots that are up each year, coaches and owners and the like compete for the same spots.

You would think that players would "compete" with each other for player spots, and the owners/gms/coaches/whoever else would compete against each other, or even smaller categories like owners vs owners, gms vs gms.

It's weak.

That's a GREAT point!

[Overtime]

well Shanon Sharpe will get his chance, and I have no doubt he'll make it in.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/shannon.sharpe.hall.2.923635.html

We hear it all the time: "Tonight's program will air at 8-7 Central," or "Live in the Eastern and Pacific time zones." I get it. Colorado doesn't exist. We in the Centennial State got a little full of ourselves this election season when the esteemed candidates seemed to land at DIA weekly. But then came the Pro Football Hall Fame voting, and we again learned our place.

We have two Hall members to call our own. The first, John Elway, had to have a career that will forever be remembered as one of the best in the history of the game, and the other, Gary Zimmerman, started his great career in Minnesota ... that's the central time zone for those keeping track.

Shannon Sharpe revolutionized the tight end position in the NFL. Before the Mouth from the South, tight ends were blockers (essentially extra linemen) who were occasionally lucky enough to catch a pass here and there. Green Bay wide receiver Sterling Sharpe was the supposed to be the pass catcher in the family, but when he retired, Sterling's kid brother held every major record at his position ... receptions, yards, touchdowns, everything.

Imagine Jerry Rice, holder of all receiving records, not making the Hall on his first attempt. That thought is so ridiculous I almost feel like I should hit the delete key before my computer has a meltdown. Now, I'm not suggesting that Sharpe is on par with Jerry Rice, no one is, but for his specific position, Sharpe is Rice.

If he's so great, how could the voters not recognize him? Well, if not for an extremely strong class of eligible players, this probably would have been his year, but that shouldn't matter. The Hall can admit seven players -- six got in. I majored in journalism, not math, but to me, that adds up to Shannon Sharpe getting robbed of a spot in Canton.

He'll get in, I'm confident of that. But I leave you with a question. If Shannon Sharpe had been a career Cowboy, Giant or Steeler, would he be writing his induction speech right now? I thought so.

[Poet]

It's trash. I've met a LOT of football fans who would be better voters than the guys we have now.

Dead serious too.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_11600762?source=rss

TAMPA, Fla. — It occurred to Rod Woodson he was walking alone.

He was walking with purpose to the convention center where the Pro Football Hall of Fame news conference was being held Saturday afternoon, after the former safety had been granted football immortality in a vote by the 44-member Hall selection committee.

But pleasurable experiences are best when shared.

"Really, my initial reaction was disappointment for Shannon," Woodson said. "I wasn't thinking about myself. I thought Shannon was a slam dunk."

Shannon Sharpe is the former Broncos tight end who made the first cut Saturday from 17 finalists to 10, but was not among the six elected. Besides Woodson, who was Sharpe's teammate in Baltimore for two years — the only time Sharpe was not a Denver Bronco in his 14-year playing career — the Hall of Fame class of 2009 features Buffalo defensive end Bruce Smith, Minnesota left guard Randall McDaniel, Kansas City outside linebacker Derrick Thomas, Dallas receiver Bob Hayes and, in the day's biggest surprise, Buffalo owner Ralph Wilson Jr.

"I'm doing better than I thought I would," Sharpe said a few minutes after he received the disappointing news. "You could tell the way I was talking the other day I was really, really nervous. I was just talking to my sister, and my brother was over here and they asked me how I was doing, and I'm good. I'm at peace with it. I'm handling it a little bit better than I thought I would."

If it's about the Broncos and the Hall of Fame, patience is a virtue. Sharpe finished his career in 2003 with three Super Bowl rings.

He finished his career as the all-time leader among tight ends in the three most significant categories: receptions (815), yards (10,060) and touchdowns (62).

Yet, he will not follow John Elway and Gary Zimmerman as the third Broncos player to be granted entrance into the famed football museum in Canton, Ohio. Not yet, anyway. Zimmerman had been a five-year teammate of both Sharpe's in Denver and McDaniel's in Minnesota.

"I stopped handicapping the voters years ago," said Zimmerman, who had to wait six years before he was elected last year. "But I'm happy for Randall and, while I'm disappointed for Shannon, I'm sure he'll go in sooner rather than later."

Sharpe almost joined Smith, who remains the NFL's all-time sack leader, and Woodson, considered the best playmaking safety this side of Ronnie Lott in the modern era, in making it on his first try.

The voting committee, however, made some surprising decisions, leaving off not only Sharpe but Cris Carter, who was the NFL's No. 2 leading receiver until Marvin Harrison passed him with his final catch of the 2008 season. Washington offensive guard and Arizona Cardinals line coach Russ Grimm also made the top 10, but not the final seven.

"Obviously, there's disappointment," Sharpe said. "But am I any more disappointed than any of the other guys who made it to the final 10 and didn't get in? Probably not. Sunshine follows rain. We'll try it again."

Once the committee narrowed the choices to seven, the maximum number that can be elected each year, all that faced each candidate was a simple "yes" or "no" vote. It is hardly a rubber-stamp procedure, as Atlanta defensive end Claude Humphrey, a senior candidate, drew less than the required 80 percent of the vote.

Wilson made it, however, as the committee members began to open their minds to his overall contributions to the game. Besides the Bills, Wilson was an original owner of the American Football League, which was founded in 1960. The combination of Wilson turning 90 in October and the Bills entering their 50th season in 2009 made his candidacy difficult to ignore.

Thomas, who played his entire 11-year career with the Chiefs, and Hayes, the "World's Fastest Human" after winning the 100-meter gold medal in the 1964 Olympics and arguably the league's first deep-threat receiver, were honored posthumously.

Before Hayes died in 2002, he typed a letter to his sister Lucille Hester, telling her what to say if he was ever elected. Bullet Bob's sister read the letter at the Hall news conference Saturday.

Following orders, Hester thanked the Cowboys, the Hall of Fame, Roger Staubach, the city of Jacksonville where he grew up, his high school, his college and his former roommate.

If Hayes had to wait seven years after he died to get in, Sharpe can wait one more year.

"I'm content with the process because this is not the first time the process has been enacted," Sharpe said. "It's been like this since 1963. How am I going to get upset at something that has been in place for almost 50 years?"

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

[BigDaddyBronco]

Total and complete BS. Shannon was a better player at his position than the other guys, with maybe the exception of Bruce Smith.

Tell me why, again, people don't think the hall voters have a bias?

[Poet]

I don't think they have a bias, I think they are just stupid.

[topscribe]

Derrick Thomas was a beast. I have seen maybe one OLB who was his absolute
peer, and that was Lawrence Taylor. So I believe he, along with Bruce Smith,
was very deserving. (But what about Gradishar?)

Of course, through my orange lenses, I believe Sharpe should have been there.
But those were tough selections this year (but Bob Hayes and not Floyd Little?).
Sharpe will eventually get in (but then, Rod Smith, with his own two rings,
probably never will).

-----

[spikerman]

Derrick Thomas was a beast. I have seen maybe one OLB who was his absolute
peer, and that was Lawrence Taylor. So I believe he, along with Bruce Smith,
was very deserving. (But what about Gradishar?)

Of course, through my orange lenses, I believe Sharpe should have been there.
But those were tough selections this year (but Bob Hayes and not Floyd Little?).
Sharpe will eventually get in (but then, Rod Smith, with his own two rings,
probably never will).

-----
The reason I'm against the Thomas selection is because he was basically a "one-trick pony". He was a devestating pass rusher, but that's pretty much all he was. That's fine if he's a defensive end, but he was a linebacker. People will say the same thing about Taylor, but while he was most known for his pass rush skills, he was also solid against the run. I'm not trying to take a shot at Derrick Thomas, but was he really more deserving than Sharpe? He was not nearly the overall LB that Randy Gradishar was and he's been ignored. I just think there were a lot of sentimental reasons for selecting him. Of course, that's just my opinion (like all of my posts).

As for Rod Smith, of course he'll never get in. The voters have already implied as much. However, the only thing that kept Michael Irvin from being a first ballot HoFer was his off the field issues. Sometime when you're bored go compare the stats of the two. :tsk:

[scott.475]

Why does the hall even exist? What a joke the way they are limited to only picking a couple each year. Why you get judged on what happens after you leave the game is outrageous, and by that I mean that if Gonzales had not come along and broken so many of Shannon's records, Shannon would be in today. He redefined the postion...period...Tony probably owes a lot of his success to seeing how Shannon did it. It is about how he played WHEN HE PLAYED...not about how he played in comparison to those who came after...outrageous.

[G_Money]

There are 7 modern-era tight ends in the HOF.

Of those TEs, 2 were on the field in the last 25 years.

The comparable position would be safety, where there are 8 (depending on your interpretation) safeties listed among the defensive backs, one of whom was on the field in the last 25 years - Ronnie Lott. I don't consider Woodson a safety for his HOF induction, but he did play it, so if you do, that makes 2.

Amazingly, a Bronco is getting shafted at both positions, as Atwater is being denied there as well.

Lott: 14 years, 10 pro bowls, 6 all pros, 1113 tackles, 63 INTs, member of All-80s team and all-90s team, 4 SB rings.

Atwater: 11 years, 8 pro bowls, 2 all pros, 1074 tackles, 24 INTs, member of All-90s team (played only one year in the 80s, that would have been a hard team to get on), 2 SB rings.

The Hall doesn't like to vote in Tight Ends or Safeties, and is busy denigrating their contributions in general, and the contributions of Sharpe and especially Atwater in particular, in order to exclude them.

It's more than a little frustrating. :tsk:

Shannon WILL get in. Some jerkoffs just didn't want it to be a first-ballot entrance because he wasn't "great" in their eyes. He'll get in.

Atwater? Looks more and more doubtful by the year, which is an insult to the feared force he was on the field.

~G

[spikerman]

Unfortunately G, you're right. No way Atwater gets in no matter how deserving he is. Of course, I think Dennis Smith is deserving for consideration too, but it won't happen.

[Poet]

Why does the hall even exist? What a joke the way they are limited to only picking a couple each year. Why you get judged on what happens after you leave the game is outrageous, and by that I mean that if Gonzales had not come along and broken so many of Shannon's records, Shannon would be in today. He redefined the postion...period...Tony probably owes a lot of his success to seeing how Shannon did it. It is about how he played WHEN HE PLAYED...not about how he played in comparison to those who came after...outrageous.

It exists to honor the greatest players of all time. Honestly it's one of the best things about sports IMO. They just pick the crappiest people to vote them in.

You should look at it by your era IMO. Hell, if you took what Tony Romo has done and extrapolate it further to 5 or six more seasons he would KILL a lot of the old school players.

If you retire being the best to do it in your era, how aren't you a HOFer? Not everyone is going to be a Jim Brown who has numbers that stand tall right now.

Then you take into consideration all the rule changes and it gets more insane.

This era is the era of offense. Almost all rules favor the offense.


It definitely is going to be impossible to get it right all the time. And there will always be borderline cases. Two smart people may see one guy as a HOFer but barely and two may see that same player as a player who was close but not good enough.


Most teams have a real long list of players who should be looked at. Some teams have way too many players in. I'm sorry, the Pittsburgh Steelers have far too many players in the HOF. It is far more likely that some many good players benefitted from being around....OMG so many other good players. Then you see undeserving players like Swann and Bradshaw and you start to feel sick. Gale Sayers is another botched entrance.

They blow.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

FAQ about the Hall's selection process

Charged with the vital task of continuing to be sure that new enshrinees are the finest the game has produced is the Pro Football Hall of Fame's 44-person Board of Selectors (see list below).

The Board consists of one media representative from each pro football city with two from New York, inasmuch as that city has two teams in the National Football League. A 33rd member is a representative of the Pro Football Writers of America and there are 11 at-large delegates.

With the exception of the PFWA representative who is appointed for a two-year term, all appointments are of the open-end variety and can be terminated only by retirement or resignation, as long as the member continues to attend meetings regularly.

The Board of Selectors meets annually at the time of the Super Bowl to elect new members. There is no set number for any class of enshrinees but, the Board's current ground rules do stipulate that between four and seven new members will be selected each year. The 1973 and 1976 classes of three were the smallest ever named.

Every candidate is carefully scrutinized and must receive at least 80 percent approval of the Board at the annual meeting before he can be elected. A scale of negative votes for elimination that will vary depending on the number of Selectors in attendance is used.

When the Selectors meet in Tampa, FL next January to name the Class of 2009, they will have before them a roster of 17 final candidates, along with detailed biographies on each. To assure that older players will be considered along with the younger breed, the Seniors Committee - made up of nine veteran members of the overall Selection Committee - have named two nominees from the pre-1984 era to be included on the final list.

The other finalists will be the survivors from a preliminary list of candidates that the Board will have screened by mail ballot. That original list will have been in part provided by the fans themselves.

A slight modification to the bylaws in August 2006 resulted in an increase to 17 finalists based on 15 modern-era candidates and two senior nominees being named. In the past, the finalists numbered 15 that included 13 modern-era candidates and the two senior nominees.

Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. For example, a candidate for the 2009 class must have concluded his career not later than the 2003 season.

There is no mandatory retirement period for a contributor. Every nomination received will be processed and forwarded to the Board of Selectors.

It is important to emphasize that the Hall of Fame itself has no say whatsoever as to who is or is not elected to membership. The only function of the staff is to process the nominations as they arrive and to coordinate the annual meeting.
Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selectors
Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News
Carolina Charles Chandler, Charlotte Observer
Chicago Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune
Cincinnati Chick Ludwig, Dayton Daily News
Cleveland Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
Detroit Tom Kowalski, Booth Newspapers
Green Bay Cliff Christl, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFX Overland Park, KS
Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald*
Minnesota Sid Hartman, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, HBO Sports/Pro Football Weekly
New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Vinny DiTrani, Bergen Record
New York (Jets) Paul Zimmerman, Sports Illustrated
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune
San Francisco Nancy Gay, San Francisco Chronicle
Seattle Clare Farnsworth, Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington David Elfin, Washington Times
PFWA Alex Marvez, FOXSports.com
At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine
At Large John Czarnecki, FoxSports.com
At Large Dave Goldberg, Associated Press*
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange
At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald*
At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union
At Large Jim Trotter, Sports Illustrated
At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram

* Also serves on the Senior Selection Committee. There is one selector still to be determined who will serve on the Senior Selection Committee.