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MOtorboat
01-29-2009, 12:01 PM
OK, I put this in the Broncos forum, so it might get a little discussion about how the two Super Bowl teams built their team vs. how the Broncos have or want to build theirs.

First is the Cardinals. I'll work on the Steelers here and edit this post with it later.

Of their starters, 13 of their 22 starters were drafted by the team and nine were signed through free agency. Three of their starters (starters defined by the team web site's depth chart) were undrafted free agents, ironically enough, the nose tackle, the center and the quarterback.

Of the 53 guys on the team, the Cardinals drafted 26 and signed 27 (including Undrafted Free Agents). There are 13 undrafted free agents on the team. Six of those were originally signed by the Cardinals.


Offense
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
QB Kurt Warner FA 2005 UDFA - Packer - 1994
Matt Leinart Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 10 - Cardinals - 2006
B. St. Pierre FA 2008 Rd 5, 163 - Steelers - 2003
RB Edgerrin James FA 2006 Rd 1, 4 - Colts - 1999
Tim Hightower Draft, Rd 5 Rd 5, 149 - Cardinals - 2008
J.J. Arrington Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 44 - Cardinals - 2005
FB Terrelle Smith FA 2007 Rd 4, 96 - Saints - 2000
Tim Castille UDFA 2007 UDFA - Cardinals - 2007
WR L. Fitzgerald Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 3 - Cardinals - 2004
Jerheme Urban FA 2007 UDFA - Seahawks - 2003
Sean Morey FA 2007 Rd 7, 241 - Patriots 1999
WR Anquan Boldin Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 54 - Cardinals - 2003
Steve Breaston Draft, Rd 5 Rd 5, 142 - Cardinals - 2007
Early Doucet Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 81 - Cardinals - 2008
TE Leonard Pope Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 72 - Cardinals - 2006
Ben Patrick Draft, Rd 7 Rd 7, 215 - Cardinals - 2007
Jerame Tuman FA 2008 Rd 5, 135 - Steelers - 1999
LT Mike Gandy FA 2007 Rd 3, 68 - Chicago - 2001
Brandon Keith Draft, Rd 7 Rd 7, 225 - Cardinals - 2008
LG Reggie Wells Draft, Rd 6 Rd 6, 177 - Cardinals - 2003
Elton Brown Draft, Rd 5 Rd 4, 111 - Cardinals - 2005
C Lyle Sendlein UDFA 2007 UDFA - Cardinals - 2007
Pat Ross FA 2008 UDFA - Seahawks - 2006
RG Deuce Lutui Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 41 - Cardinals - 2006
RT Levi Brown Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 5 - Cardinals - 2007
Elliot Vallejo UDFA 2007 UDFA - Cardinals - 2007


Defense
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
LDE Antonio Smith Draft, Rd 5 Rd 5, 135 - Cardinals - 2004
Kenny Iwebema Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 116 - Cardinals - 2008
NT Bryan Robinson FA 2008 UDFA - Rams - 1997
Gabe Watson Draft, Rd. 4 Rd 4, 107 - Cardinals - 2006
Alan Branch Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 33 - Cardinals - 2007
UT Darnell Dockett Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 64 - Cardinals - 2004
Calais Campbell Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 50 - Cardinals - 2008
RDE Bertrand Berry FA 2004 Rd 3, 86 - Colts - 1997
Travis LaBoy FA 2008 Rd 2, 42 - Titans - 2004
SLB Chike Okeafor FA 2005 Rd 3, 89 - 49ers - 1999
Victor Hobson FA 2008 Rd 2, 53 - Jets - 2003
MLB Gerald Hayes Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 70 - Cardinals - 2003
Monty Beisel FA 2007 Rd 4, 107 - Chiefs - 2001
WLB Karlos Dansby Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 33 - Cardinals - 2004
Pago Togafau UDFA 2007 UDFA - Cardinals - 2007
LCB Rod Hood FA 2007 UDFA - Eagles - 2003
Ralph Brown FA 2007 Rd 5, 140 - Giants - 2000
Eric Green Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 75 - Cardinals - 2005
RCB D. R.-Cromartie Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 16 - Cardinals - 2008
Michael Adams UDFA 2007 UDFA - Cardinals - 2007
SS Adrian Wilson Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 64 - Cardinals - 2001
Aaron Francisco UDFA 2005 UDFA - Cardinals - 2005
FS Antrel Rolle Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 8 - Cardinals - 2005
Matt Ware FA 2008 Rd 3, 89 - Eagles - 2004


Special Teams
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
K Neil Rackers FA 2003 Rd 6, 169 - Bengals - 2000
P Ben Graham FA 2008 UDFA - Jets - 2005
LS Nathan Hodel FA 2001 UDFA - Panthers - 2001

The Steelers have a knack for finding undrafted free agents. They have 16 of them on their 53-man roster, 12 of whom they identified initially by themselves. They have 26 drafted players and 27 free agents, but included in those free agents are the 16 UDFA. Basically, between the draft and UDFA, they have 38 players identified by their talent scouts on their roster.

Of the starters, they've drafted 15 and signed seven. Four of those seven were UDFA, though, and three of them were UDFA with the Steelers.


Pittsburgh Steelers
Offense
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
QB B Roeth Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 11 - Steelers - 2004
Byron Leftwich FA 2008 Rd 1, 7 - Jaguars - 2003
Dennis Dixon Draft, Rd 5 Rd 5, 156 - Steelers - 2008
RB Willie Parker UDFA 2004 UDFA - Steelers - 2004
Mewelde Moore FA 2008 Rd 1, 23 - Vikings - 2004
Gary Russell UDFA 2007 UDFA - Steelers - 2007
FB Carey Davis FA 2007 UDFA - Colts - 2004
WR Hines Ward Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 92 - Steelers - 1998
N. Washington UDFA 2005 UDFA - Steelers - 2005
WR S. Holmes Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 25 - Steelers - 2006
Limas Sweed Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 53 - Steelers - 2008
TE Heath Miller Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 30 - Steelers - 2005
Matt Spaeth Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 77 - Steelers - 2007
Sean McHugh FA 2008 Rd 7, 241 - Titans - 2004
LT Max Starks Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 75 - Steelers - 2004
Trai Essex Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 93 - Steelers - 2005
Jason Capizzi UDFA 2007 UDFA - Steelers - 2007
Tony Hills Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 130 - Steelers - 2008
LG Chris Kemoeatu Draft, Rd 6 Rd 6, 204 - Steelers - 2005
Jeremy Parquet FA 2008 Rd 7, 238 - Chiefs - 2005
C Justin Hartwig FA 2008 Rd 6, 187 - Titans - 2002
RG D. Stapleton UDFA 2007 UDFA - Steelers - 2007
RT Willie Colon Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 131 - Steelers - 2006

Defense
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
LDE Aaron Smith Draft, Rd. 4 Rd 4, 109 - Steelers - 1999
Travis Kirschke FA 2004 UDFA - Lions - 1997
Orpheus Roye Draft, Rd 6 Rd 6, 200 - Steelers - 1996
NT Casey Hampton Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 19 - Steelers - 2001
Chris Hoke UDFA 2001 UDFA - Steelers - 2001
Scott Paxson UDFA 2006 UDFA - Steelers - 2006
RDE Brett Keisel Draft, Rd 7 Rd 7, 242 - Steelers - 2002
Nick Eason FA 2007 Rd 4, 114 - Broncos - 2003
LOLB LaMarr Woodley Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 46 - Steelers - 2007
Bruce Davis Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 88 - Steelers - 2008
Patrick Bailey UDFA 2008 UDFA - Steelers - 2008
LILB James Farrior FA 2003 Rd 1, 8 - Jets - 1997
Keyaron Fox FA 2008 Rd 3, 93 - Chiefs - 2004
RILB Larry Foote Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 128 - Steelers - 2002
L. Timmons Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 15 - Steelers - 2007
ROLB James Harrison UDFA 2002 UDFA - Steelers - 2002
Andre Frazier UDFA 2005 UDFA - Steelers - 2005
LCB Ike Taylor Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 125 - Steelers - 2003
William Gay Draft, Rd 5 Rd 5, 170 - Steelers - 2007
A. Madison UDFA 2006 UDFA - Steelers - 2006
RCB D. Townsend Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 117 - Steelers - 1998
B. McFadden Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 62 - Steelers - 2005
Fernando Bryant FA 2008 Rd 1, 26 - Jaguars - 1999
FS Ryan Clark FA 2006 UDFA - Giants - 2002
Anthony Smith Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 83 - Steelers - 2006
SS Troy Polamalu Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 16 - Steelers - 2003
Tyrone Carter FA 2004 Rd 4, 122 - Vikings - 2000

Special Teams
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
K Jeff Reed UDFA 2002 UDFA - Saints - 2002
P Mitch Berger FA Rd 6, 193 - Eagles - 1994
LS Jared Retkofsky UDFA 2007 UDFA - Steelers - 2007

Cugel
01-29-2009, 12:27 PM
I don't think the Cardinals are exactly the team to emulate for the rebuilding Broncos. They have NOT enjoyed any long-term success after all. Instead they've gotten hot in the playoffs.

Let's see how they do over a period of several years. If you want to look at an NFC Team to emulate it would be the Giants who won the SB last year and had home field advantage in the playoffs this year.

They've built a team defense with solid play from their front seven. They drafted a franchise QB in Eli Manning, then added some good young OL to work with. They added Brandon Jacobs to replace Tikki Barber at RB. They're solid if unspectacular at a lot of positions.

There are several AFC teams who have been successful over a period of years:

The Patriots, Steelers and Colts are the best of these, with the Titans upcoming and the Chargers having won the division for the last 3 years.

Those are the NFL elite teams, not the Cardinals yet. If you would have done this survey a couple of years ago you might have picked the Seattle Seahawks or Chicago Bears teams that went to the SB. But, they didn't last, they were one-shot wonders.

The Eagles might be another team but they keep coming up short in the NFC Championship game, losing 4 times and winning only once, but losing the SB.

All in all, the Steelers, Colts, and Patriots are the teams to emulate.

studbucket
01-29-2009, 12:28 PM
To back this up, NFP has a nice little piece on how Pittsburgh and Arizona structure cap space and signings. I just figured it helped support your cause Mo.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/super-bowl-coaching-carousel-2/

MOtorboat
01-29-2009, 12:39 PM
I don't think the Cardinals are exactly the team to emulate for the rebuilding Broncos. They have NOT enjoyed any long-term success after all. Instead they've gotten hot in the playoffs.

Let's see how they do over a period of several years. If you want to look at an NFC Team to emulate it would be the Giants who won the SB last year and had home field advantage in the playoffs this year.

They've built a team defense with solid play from their front seven. They drafted a franchise QB in Eli Manning, then added some good young OL to work with. They added Brandon Jacobs to replace Tikki Barber at RB. They're solid if unspectacular at a lot of positions.

There are several AFC teams who have been successful over a period of years:

The Patriots, Steelers and Colts are the best of these, with the Titans upcoming and the Chargers having won the division for the last 3 years.

Those are the NFL elite teams, not the Cardinals yet. If you would have done this survey a couple of years ago you might have picked the Seattle Seahawks or Chicago Bears teams that went to the SB. But, they didn't last, they were one-shot wonders.

The Eagles might be another team but they keep coming up short in the NFC Championship game, losing 4 times and winning only once, but losing the SB.

All in all, the Steelers, Colts, and Patriots are the teams to emulate.

I'm working on the Steelers, and I'm not suggesting we emulate either team, just a discussion starter based off of the two teams in the Super Bowl.

Shazam!
01-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Coaching staff is as big a factor as any player on the roster.

Northman
01-29-2009, 01:04 PM
I dont know, give me another 2,000 yd back and a top 15 defense who can actually force some turnovers and i think we are good to go.

silkamilkamonico
01-29-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm not so concerned about the Cardinals. They seem like a flash in the pan to me, and while that's nice to even get to the SuperBowl, I would much rather have a consistently competing team like Pittsburgh.

You build through the draft, and NOT overpaying for free agents.

Just like the Steelers. Just like the Patriots. Just like the Colts. And all the teams that are competitive year after year.

I hope the current regime take's that approach. I got sick and tired of Shanahan overpaying for free agents that only lead to one of the highest dead caps in the NFL.

Ziggy
01-29-2009, 01:47 PM
Thanks for the reseasrch MB. It's the offseason, and we need some more viable things around here to chat about. This qualifies in my book. If I find some time, I'll break down the % of starters on the Steelers who were drafted, UDFA, and found through the veteran NFL FA market. It's a nice topic for discussion.

edit: Well you made it real easy MB, thanks. I noticed that you left Mendenhall off of the Steelers roster.

Steelers Starters:
OFFENSE:

1ST Round Draft Picks: 3
Other Steelers Draft picks: 4
NFL Veteran FA's: 2
UDFA's: 2


DEFENSE:

1ST Round Draft Picks: 2
Other Steelers Draft Picks: 6
NFL Veteran FA's: 2
UDFA: 1

So 15 of thier 22 starters were on offense and defense obtained in the draft. 3 more were UDFA's, and only 4 were obtained through NFL Veteran FA. The Steelers built through the draft, and supplemented with free agents. Nice blueprint. I didn't bother with the Cards, due to this being thier first successful year in a long time.

MOtorboat
01-29-2009, 03:37 PM
The Broncos:


Denver Broncos
Offense
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
QB Jay Cutler Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 11 - Broncos - 2006
Darrell Hackney FA 2007 UDFA - Browns - 2006
RB Tatum Bell FA 2008 Rd 2, 41 - Broncos - 2004
Cory Boyd FA 2008 Rd 7, 238 - Buccaneers - 2008
Alex Haynes FA 2008 UDFA - Ravens - 2005
FB Spencer Larsen Draft, Rd 6 Rd 6, 183 - Broncos - 2008
Andrew Pinnock FA 2008 Rd 7, 229 - Chargers - 2003
WR B. Marshall Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 119 - Broncos - 2006
Darrell Jackson FA 2008 Rd 3, 80 - Seahawks - 2000
WR Eddie Royal Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 42 - Broncos - 2008
Brandon Stokley FA 2007 Rd 4, 105 - Ravens - 1999
Chad Jackson FA 2008 Rd 2, 36 - Patriots - 2006
TE Daniel Graham FA 2007 Rd 1, 21 - Patriots - 2002
Tony Scheffler Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 61 - Broncos - 2006
Chad Mustard FA 2008 UDFA - Browns - 2002
Jeb Putzier FA 2008 Rd 6, 191 - Broncos - 2002
LT Ryan Clady Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 12 - Broncos - 2008
Tyler Polumbus UDFA 2008 UDFA - Broncos - 2008
LG Ben Hamilton Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 113 - Broncos - 2001
K. Lichten Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 108 - Broncos - 2008
C C. Weigmann FA 2008 UDFA - Colts - 1996
RG Chris Kuper Draft, Rd 5 Rd 5, 161 - Broncos - 2006
Pat Murray FA 2008 UDFA - Packers - 2007
RT Ryan Harris Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 70 - Broncos - 2007

Defense
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
LE E. Ekuban Trade (Cle) 2005 Rd 1, 11 - Cowboys - 1999
J. Engelberger Trade (SF) 2005 Rd 2, 35 - 49ers - 2000
Tim Crowder Draft, Rd 2 Rd 2, 56 - Broncos - 2007
LT D. Robertson Trade (NYJ) 2008 Rd 1, 4 - Jets - 2003
Kenny Peterson FA 2007 Rd 3, 94 - Packers - 2003
RT Marcus Thomas Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 121 - Broncos - 2002
Nic Clemons FA 2008 UDFA - Redskins - 2003
RE Elvis Dumervil Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 126 - Broncos -2006
Jarvis Moss Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 17 - Broncos - 2007
WLB D.J. Williams Draft, Rd 1 Rd 1, 17 - Broncos - 2004
W. Woodyard UDFA 2008 UDFA -Broncos - 2008
N. Koutouvides FA 2008 Rd 4, 116 - Seahawks - 2004
MLB Nate Webster FA 2006 Rd 3, 90 - Buccaneers - 2000
Mario Haggan FA 2008 Rd 7, 228 - Bills - 2003
SLB Jamie Winborn FA 2007 Rd 2, 47 - 49ers - 2001
Louis Green FA 2003 UDFA - Ravens - 2002
LCB Champ Bailey Trade (Was) 2004 Rd 1, 7 - Redskins - 1999
Josh Bell FA 2008 UDFA - Chargers - 2008
Jack Williams Draft, Rd 4 Rd 4, 119 - Broncos - 2008
RCB Dre Bly Trade (Det) 2007 Rd 2, 41 - Rams - 1999
Karl Paymah Draft, Rd 3 Rd 3, 76 - Broncos - 2005
SS M. Manuel FA 2008 Rd 6, 181 - Bengals - 2002
Josh Barrett Draft, Rd 7 Rd 7, 220 - Broncos - 2008
H-D Jones FA 2008 UDFA - Bengals - 2005
FS Marlon McCree FA 2008 Rd 7, 223 - Jaguars - 2001
Vernon Fox FA 2008 UDFA - Chargers - 2002

Special Teams
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
K Matt Prater FA 2007 UDFA - Lions - 2006
P Brett Kern UDFA 2008 UDFA - Broncos - 2008
LS Mike Leach FA 2002 UDFA - Titans - 2000

What we gave up in all those defensive trade:
List of Trades

Ebenezer Ekuban
Joined the Broncos along with defensive tackle Michael Myers in a trade with Cleveland on March 30, 2005, that sent Denver running back Reuben Droughns to the Browns.

John Engelberger
Joined the Broncos on July 15, 2005, in a trade with San Francisco in exchange for cornerback Willie Middlebrooks.

Dewayne Robertson
Joined the Broncos on April 24, 2008, in a trade from the Jets in exchange for a conditional pick in the 2009 NFL Draft.

Champ Bailey
Joined the Broncos on March 4, 2004, in a trade with Washington that brought Bailey and a second-round draft choice (RB Tatum Bell) to Denver in exchange for running back Clinton Portis.

Dre Bly
Joined the Broncos on March 2, 2007, along with a sixth-round choice in the 2007 NFL Draft (Traded, along with other picks, in order to move up to get Marcus Thomas) from Detroit in exchange for running back Tatum Bell, tackle George Foster and a fifth-round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft (Johnny Baldwin, LB, Alabama A&M).