West Coast Offense Is Out

[Ziggy]

West Coast offense taking a hike
McDaniels is rewriting the Broncos' playbook to make use of a "unique" system.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post


There will be a new system. There will be new terminology.

The Broncos' defense transforming from a 4-3 system to a 3-4? Nope. Well, maybe, but more assuredly, the Broncos are about to rewrite their offensive playbook.

Say goodbye to the West Coast offense, versions of which Mike Shanahan directed for the past 14 years. New head coach Josh McDaniels is bringing the New England Patriots' offense to Denver.

Study up, Jay Cutler.

"Our system is very unique," McDaniels said in a phone interview Wednesday. "There are not a lot of branches off a tree that uses this system."

The system? Watch the Patriots' offensive plays develop from a stadium's upper level and it looks like they're running the basketball version of a fast-break, three-man weave. Receivers are bunched, receivers are spread, but receivers are constantly running patterns off each other.
The Boston media dubbed it the "Amoeba Offense" for its ability to adapt to its own personnel, or adjust to a defense. And, indeed, against the Broncos in Week 7, journeyman tailback Sammy Morris rushed for 138 yards. By halftime.

"The unique part about that is I know a lot of people associate what we did in New England with the passing game, but we were sixth in the league in rushing this year," McDaniels said. "It's the unknown or missing piece that not many people know about or talk about. It's not the same each week. It won't be the same. It doesn't fall into a specific category like the West Coast."

Former Broncos tight end Shannon Sharpe played seven seasons in Shanahan's West Coast system and he's become familiar with the Patriots' offense through his work as an NFL analyst for CBS. The New England system hasn't necessarily kept its tight ends busy catching passes — as Broncos tight ends Daniel Graham, a former Patriot, and Tony Scheffler surely have noted.

But Sharpe said the Broncos' talented receiving duo of Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall will be well-suited for the New England-style offense.
"It shouldn't be very difficult, because they have similar pieces," Sharpe said. "I think Eddie Royal can be every bit as good as Wes Welker. I think Brandon Marshall — I don't know if he can be as good as Randy Moss because Randy Moss is pretty special. But they've got two bookend tackles. You've got Jay Cutler, who's a franchise quarterback. He turns the ball over a little too much right now for my fancy. You can get a running back."

The New England system was a major reason Mike McCoy, and not Jeremy Bates, was selected to work directly with Cutler in 2009 as the Broncos' new offensive coordinator. Speaking while still in shock over Shanahan's firing, Cutler strongly urged the Broncos to keep Bates as his quarterbacks coach.

Was McDaniels' discomfort with that quarterback-coach relationship the reason Bates was not retained?

"That didn't have anything to do with it," McDaniels said. "It was a situation where I felt like the best thing for the Broncos going forward was putting the staff together the way that I did. I'll spend significant time with Jay. Our relationship will be very important."

McCoy is familiar with New England's offense, while Bates, who landed quite well as USC's offensive coordinator, is embedded in the West Coast offense. McCoy had been quarterbacks coach of the Carolina Panthers, who have run New England's offense since they hired Jeff Davidson as offensive coordinator in 2007. Davidson was a Patriots offensive assistant from 1997-2004.

It's a system that helped Tom Brady, a former sixth-round draft pick, pass Peyton Manning as the NFL's undisputed No. 1 quarterback in 2007. It's a system that transformed Matt Cassel from a backup college quarterback to the NFL's eighth-ranked passer in 2008.

If the offensive system is good enough for Brady and Cassel, it should be good enough for Cutler.

"That will all play out in time," McDaniels said. "I'm not worried about that. I think everyone will love playing in this system. It's been very, very successful and it takes good players to make it go. And it starts with Jay."

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com



I had no idea that the Panthers ran the Patriots offense. It proves that the "Amoeba" offense truly does adapt to the personnel in place.

[Northman]

I actually dont mind. I want to see some new wrinkles in our offensive playcalling. I want us to become unpredictable to defenses again.

[Ziggy]

I've always been a fan of adapting your offense to fit the personnel that you have available and not using a single base philosiphy. If coach McD can adjust well during games to adapt to what the opposing defense is doing, this is going to be a tough team to stop.

[PatricktheDookie]

I still haven't heard anything about the zone blocking scheme, though...

[omac]

I always thought NE ran some form of spread offense, like a lot of college teams do. It sure looks like the spread from college football.

The article makes it sound like it's something they've invented. Maybe it is, I wouldn't know.

This offense that the article talks about ... is that just starting from 2007, or is this the same Pats offense from several years ago, and who in particular invented or implemented this offense first for NE? Was it there when Bledsoe was the starter, and if it wasn't, what was it before? Anyone know? Maybe some Pats fans here?

I've always liked the efficiency of NE's passing game. I haven't been too impressed with the implementation of their rushing offense these last 2 seasons, though.

To me, Carolina's offense looks nothing like the Pats offense.

Well, maybe we won't need a stud RB after all ... just a company of Maroney's, Morris'es, and Faulks.

[Ziggy]

I always thought NE ran some form of spread offense, like a lot of college teams do. It sure looks like the spread from college football.

The article makes it sound like it's something they've invented. Maybe it is, I wouldn't know.

This offense that the article talks about ... is that just starting from 2007, or is this the same Pats offense from several years ago, and who in particular invented or implemented this offense first for NE? Was it there when Bledsoe was the starter, and if it wasn't, what was it before? Anyone know? Maybe some Pats fans here?

I've always liked the efficiency of NE's passing game. I haven't been too impressed with the implementation of their rushing offense these last 2 seasons, though.

To me, Carolina's offense looks nothing like the Pats offense.

Well, maybe we won't need a stud RB after all ... just a company of Maroney's, Morris'es, and Faulks.


I think that that's the whole point of the offense. It plays to the strengths of the personnel that you have. Carolina has 2 top notch RB's, so they design thier gameplan mostly around featuring those 2, along with taking advantage of Steve Smith's abilities. The Pats were not strong at RB, but had great WR's this year, so the offense featured those WR's more than anything.

If the Broncos go out and get a stud RB, or if Hillis or Torrain turns out to be that stud, I would guess that we will have a balanced attack. If not, we will probably feature Cutler, Marshall, and Royal in the passing attack.

amoeba or US ameba [am-mee-ba, -bee]
Noun
pl -bae -bas a microscopic single-cell creature that is able to change its shape [Greek ameibein to change]


It could have also been named the chamelion offense.

[Traveler]

My concern is that this offense isn't TE friendly. Does that make Graham and Scheffler expendable?

[omac]

I think that that's the whole point of the offense. It plays to the strengths of the personnel that you have. Carolina has 2 top notch RB's, so they design thier gameplan mostly around featuring those 2, along with taking advantage of Steve Smith's abilities. The Pats were not strong at RB, but had great WR's this year, so the offense featured those WR's more than anything.

If the Broncos go out and get a stud RB, or if Hillis or Torrain turns out to be that stud, I would guess that we will have a balanced attack. If not, we will probably feature Cutler, Marshall, and Royal in the passing attack.

amoeba or US ameba [am-mee-ba, -bee]
Noun
pl -bae -bas a microscopic single-cell creature that is able to change its shape [Greek ameibein to change]


It could have also been named the chamelion offense.

I understand what you're saying, but to me, it sure looks like they spread the ball to pass, and they spread the ball to run, just like college teams. That, to me, looks like the core of their system. The spread can be used to go heavy on the pass, or heavy on the run, depending on implementation.

While the Broncos under Shanny were a West Coast style offense with a heavy dependence on a zone blocking rushing offense to set up the pass, isn't what the Pats are doing basically using the spread to pass or run?

I'm not convinced that Carolina is running the same system, but then again, I haven't watched them a lot this season. Were they also using the spread to run or pass, were they zone-blocking, or were they power running?

I do hope McDaniels fits in Scheffler, Graham, and even Nate Jackson into his receiving plans, as they present great mismatches with other teams.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

My concern is that this offense isn't TE friendly. Does that make Graham and Scheffler expendable?

If it does, it does. Graham is a fit regardless since he is a good blocker too. But like the article said, it uses the team's strenghths. If that is the case, they'll get their chances.

[threefolddead]

This offense does have a lot of strengths but we seemed to be utilizing them last season looking at the numbers we racked up even with Cuttys "I can't look off of this guy" mode he would get in. I guess if McCoach CAN change to a better system where everyone can excell in, great but I think it's more the players that need to be disciplined to do their jobs rather than a huge shift in the offense. It is exciting though!

[WARHORSE]

This offense simply HAS to be TE friendly.

We ARE very high on PETTIGREW afterall......................:coffee:









West Coast or not...........I just wanna win.

Perhaps McD can wrinkly in the ZBS in the new system.
Also, if McCoy has been running this offense in Carolina............sure looks like a running offense to me, no?

[Lonestar]

I think that most of the folks that were weaned on the "broncos" during the Shanahan time are going to see alot of changes to the revered ones system..

I hope for the better..

I don not see a studbuffalo on the horizon I think we will see what NE has been doing for the past 5-6 years.. two RB's getting about 600-800 years a year.. And since NE was trying to add the ZBS to their play book that might be a new/old wrinkle to the playbook..

TE getting 40-50 passes and 400-600 or so yards total.. And most passing to WR's and I'd guess about 50-60 passes to RB's..

[Traveler]

This offense simply HAS to be TE friendly.

We ARE very high on PETTIGREW afterall......................:coffee:









West Coast or not...........I just wanna win.

Perhaps McD can wrinkly in the ZBS in the new system.
Also, if McCoy has been running this offense in Carolina............sure looks like a running offense to me, no?

Damn! You could cut through that sarcasm with a knife!:D

[TXBRONC]

I still haven't heard anything about the zone blocking scheme, though...

That has to do with running the ball, it read it to mean that they were concentrating on the passing game.

[Cugel]

I've always been a fan of adapting your offense to fit the personnel that you have available and not using a single base philosiphy. If coach McD can adjust well during games to adapt to what the opposing defense is doing, this is going to be a tough team to stop.

That's exactly the important point! For some reason Shanahan seemed to fail at half-time adjustments. He'd come out and there's that scripted 15 play drives.

But, after that, the other team would always catch up. Then at halftime they'd make adjustments to whatever the Broncos were doing and in the 3rd quarter they'd struggle.

I'd like to see some change.

You don't fix what ain't broke, so I wouldn't want to see wholesale changes in things like the ZBS, but they can certainly incorporate some changes with play selection to good effect.

[jrelway]

with our O line blocking like it did, i dont mind moving away from the west coast offense at all. if mcdaniels can replicate what he did with the patsies last couple years, we'll be good to go.

[Broncospsycho77]

I think the best thing we can do right now is change our offense every week. We certainly have the personnel... one week bunch up 3 WRs, the next run a wishbone, the next focus on the Double TE... I don't see any negatives to it besides maybe a weaker execution of said offense. Still, Cutler's a smart guy... went to Vanderbilt.

Defenses won't know what's coming, and I like having that advantage. Keep 'em on their heels.

[fcspikeit]

That's exactly the important point! For some reason Shanahan seemed to fail at half-time adjustments. He'd come out and there's that scripted 15 play drives.

But, after that, the other team would always catch up. Then at halftime they'd make adjustments to whatever the Broncos were doing and in the 3rd quarter they'd struggle.

I'd like to see some change.

You don't fix what ain't broke, so I wouldn't want to see wholesale changes in things like the ZBS, but they can certainly incorporate some changes with play selection to good effect.

It was either that or our game plan would change to something less affective in the second half, I would be scratching my head wondering why we stopped running plays that were working :confused: Even worse was it seemed every play replaced was replaced with another WR screen :tsk:

[honz]

I wouldn't worry about Graham or Sheffler not finding a niche in this offense. Graham will always see the field because of his blocking ability and he's really no slouch as a receiver. And Scheff is just too big of a weapon to not utilize him...you can line him up at TE, in the slot, or out wide. With his size and athleticism he is going to creat a mismatch whether he is going against a LB or a DB. I think any coach worth a hoot would find a way to utilize weapons like Graham and Scheff.

[Bozo Jr.]

Does this mean we will finally start to utilize Jay's arm strength, instead of dinking off 10 bubble screens a game!

[fcspikeit]

Does this mean we will finally start to utilize Jay's arm strength, instead of dinking off 10 bubble screens a game!

One can only hope :beer:

NE ran a lot of screens to but at least they weren't as predictable. I am excited to see our offense working as a whole.. Instead of just having the receivers run routs, it will be nice to see each rout designed to open up each other..

[dogfish]

i'm with omac 100% on this one-- if carolina was running NE's offense, it was a form that mutated so drastically that it should have been considered an entirely different system. . . . the two didn't look the slightest bit similar to me. . .

and i expect our O to look like what we've seen in NE, the spread formations and the shotgun. . . . i do agree with honz-- they'll find a way to incorporate our TEs. . . i wouldn't be surprised to see chef working out of the slot a fair bit-- he's athletic enough and runs well enough to do it, and he's not that strong as an inline blocker anyways. . .

one thing that i expect that i'm actually realy looking forward to is more inclusion of our RBs into the passing game-- young and hillis are both very effective receivers, and i've always felt that the backs were underutilized in shanahan's passing game. . . anyone remember how deadly kansas shitty used to be with screens back when vermeil was dialing them up for priest holmes? our mobile OL is ideally suited for blocking downfield, i've always wished we'd take better advantage of it, and i suspect that doogie will do just that. . . .

[elsid13]

I think the best thing we can do right now is change our offense every week. We certainly have the personnel... one week bunch up 3 WRs, the next run a wishbone, the next focus on the Double TE... I don't see any negatives to it besides maybe a weaker execution of said offense. Still, Cutler's a smart guy... went to Vanderbilt.

Defenses won't know what's coming, and I like having that advantage. Keep 'em on their heels.

You do realize that what Shanahan did every week, he adopt the offense to attack the weakness of the other team.

For this article the system McDanials is attempting to put into for the passing game isn't that unique and I am sure will see a lot the same routes we ran with Shanahan offense because it fits the type of players that we have. Marshall will continue to run crosses and drags because he has the ability to do that, Royal will attack the deep parts of the field and Stokely will play in the slot. Scheffer will be involve similar to Dallas Clark and to control the middle of the field.

[Broncospsycho77]

You do realize that what Shanahan did every week, he adopt the offense to attack the weakness of the other team.

For this article the system McDanials is attempting to put into for the passing game isn't that unique and I am sure will see a lot the same routes we ran with Shanahan offense because it fits the type of players that we have. Marshall will continue to run crosses and drags because he has the ability to do that, Royal will attack the deep parts of the field and Stokely will play in the slot. Scheffer will be involve similar to Dallas Clark and to control the middle of the field.

Right, but there was always some sort of basis for certain plays and intricacies that remained constant, hence the "West Coast" moniker, just for quick plays and all of that. Every coach does that.

Now, I can't say that Mickey D won't put some basic plays to use as quick audibles and have the usual plays called from game to game (HB Dive, Outs plays, etc.), but after that, I'd like to see a radically different offense with radically different set of formations, snap counts, playcalling, etc. Hell, we won't even have that 15 play script to go off of anymore. I just want to see some innovation on the offensive front, because by the end of the year, it just looked stale.

[rcsodak]

My concern is that this offense isn't TE friendly. Does that make Graham and Scheffler expendable?

Ask Graham why he left. lol

He said he wasn't being utilitzed enough in NE. That should answer your question right there.

I hope they keep Sheff, though. When healthy, he's a top 5 TE, imo. He's got speed, runs good routes, and has exceptional hands. He just needs some new feet. ;)

[rcsodak]

You do realize that what Shanahan did every week, he adopt the offense to attack the weakness of the other team.

For this article the system McDanials is attempting to put into for the passing game isn't that unique and I am sure will see a lot the same routes we ran with Shanahan offense because it fits the type of players that we have. Marshall will continue to run crosses and drags because he has the ability to do that, Royal will attack the deep parts of the field and Stokely will play in the slot. Scheffer will be involve similar to Dallas Clark and to control the middle of the field.

Dallas Clark plays for NE? :confused:

I can see them drafting a WR from a spread offense, now. Jauquin Iglasius, OU, maybe? Wow...imagine Crabtree!!!!!! lol

[fcspikeit]

Dallas Clark plays for NE? :confused:

I can see them drafting a WR from a spread offense, now. Jauquin Iglasius, OU, maybe? Wow...imagine Crabtree!!!!!! lol

Crabtree :tsk:

Unless he falls into the 3rd round, I will be a bit upset if we hear his name called at pick 12..

[rcsodak]

Crabtree :tsk:

Unless he falls into the 3rd round, I will be a bit upset if we hear his name called at pick 12..

Yeah....


...who'd want a sure-handed, difference making WR when we already have them. :rolleyes:

[elsid13]

Dallas Clark plays for NE? :confused:

I can see them drafting a WR from a spread offense, now. Jauquin Iglasius, OU, maybe? Wow...imagine Crabtree!!!!!! lol

No he doesn't but Scheffer has the ability to play a similiar role in Denver as Clark does in INDY. And NE expermented moving Watson out in the slot this season like Indy does with Clark...

[dogfish]

Crabtree :tsk:

Unless he falls into the 3rd round, I will be a bit upset if we hear his name called at pick 12..

no worries, he won't last anywhere close to #12. . . .

[rcsodak]

no worries, he won't last anywhere close to #12. . . .

...and the reason being.........?
*drum roll plz*

[dogfish]

...and the reason being.........?
*drum roll plz*

'cuz he's a badass. . . .

[Simple Jaded]

If Denver bets that offense that Doogie ran against Denver in 08, I'll stoked, if Denver gets that Arena Football League Offense they ran in 07.......not so much.

Btw, the West Coast Offense has been gone for years.......

[Simple Jaded]

I wouldn't worry about Graham or Sheffler not finding a niche in this offense. Graham will always see the field because of his blocking ability and he's really no slouch as a receiver. And Scheff is just too big of a weapon to not utilize him...you can line him up at TE, in the slot, or out wide. With his size and athleticism he is going to creat a mismatch whether he is going against a LB or a DB. I think any coach worth a hoot would find a way to utilize weapons like Graham and Scheff.

NE really wanted to keep Graham, so I don't worry about him either.......Scheffler is a China Doll, he can't be counted on anyway.

The good news here is that the Patriots only carried 3 TE's on their roster (As apposed to 5 for Denver), so maybe Nate Jackson will follow Shanahan out the door.......por fin.......

[dogfish]

maybe Nate Jackson will follow Shanahan out the door.......


can he take john engelberger with him?

[Simple Jaded]

can he take john engelberger with him?

And Chad Mustard.......seriously, dude is like luggage, 99.99% useless and taking up space.

No more Glenn Martinez's and Brian Clarks, no more Lennie Friedman's, no more Brownco's, no more "1st round talent"s and statements that start with "Well, obviously any time you.......".

I didn't want Shanahan to get fired, but there are a lot of things I will not miss about him.......

[WARHORSE]

Damn! You could cut through that sarcasm with a knife!:D


I know, I know.

I couldnt help meself.

But ya know...................thats the life we live here...........no?:D


Anyways.........I just KNOW McDandylion saved some BELICHICK BUSTER plays in the back of his playbook specifically for New England............I just hope the kid thinks ahead like that................cause a kid like that could get me to demand Bowlen give him a jersey just so I could buy it!:lol:

[PatricktheDookie]

Scheffler is not a top five TE.

[fcspikeit]

Yeah....


...who'd want a sure-handed, difference making WR when we already have them. :rolleyes:

With all the holes on D are you really advocating us taking a WR? We have as much need at QB as we do WR...

Besides that, What is the going rate in draft picks for a top 20 WR? They don't hold their value worth the crap. IMO it is almost always a mistake to take a WR in the 1st round.. There of course are a few exceptions, but the Fitzgeralds are few and far between.

[omac]

Scheffler is not a top five TE.

Scheffler's excellent. Can't wait for Doogie to get a better strength and conditioning trainer to toughen him up. Why is Tuten still here. :tsk:

(added) Toughen is the wrong word; Scheffler's mentally tough, but he puts pushes his body to the limits and takes hits to make plays.

[omac]

With all the holes on D are you really advocating us taking a WR? We have as much need at QB as we do WR...

Besides that, What is the going rate in draft picks for a top 20 WR? They don't hold their value worth the crap. IMO it is almost always a mistake to take a WR in the 1st round.. There of course are a few exceptions, but the Fitzgeralds are few and far between.

Besides, our receivers are really good. Tons of teams would love to have Marshall as their #1, or Eddie as their #2, or Stokley as their slot guy. The only consistent component we need at offense is RB, but with McDaniel's offense, we probably don't even need that.

[WARHORSE]

Right, but there was always some sort of basis for certain plays and intricacies that remained constant, hence the "West Coast" moniker, just for quick plays and all of that. Every coach does that.

Now, I can't say that Mickey D won't put some basic plays to use as quick audibles and have the usual plays called from game to game (HB Dive, Outs plays, etc.), but after that, I'd like to see a radically different offense with radically different set of formations, snap counts, playcalling, etc. Hell, we won't even have that 15 play script to go off of anymore. I just want to see some innovation on the offensive front, because by the end of the year, it just looked stale.


I think with Shanahan, when he was an up and comer as a Ocoordinator, he dissected defenses entire games. When he came to Denver, he called the plays and attacked the defenses personally. I can even remember him calling the plays in the superbowl against Atlanta. He was always watching what the defenses were bringing, and whatever they were bringing........THROUGH OUT THE GAME........Shanahan adjusted.

Once Kubes moved into that role, Shanny went to doing other things.

Hungry O coordinators look for ways to attack that set themselves apart.

Meet Josh McDaniels.

I hope he keeps his edge, and one of the most excited things I heard when he came in, was the fact that he was going to continue calling plays himself.


Lets git it.:salute:

[rcsodak]

Scheffler is not a top five TE.

READ what I typed, please. :coffee:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=538643&postcount=25

[rcsodak]

With all the holes on D are you really advocating us taking a WR? We have as much need at QB as we do WR...

Besides that, What is the going rate in draft picks for a top 20 WR? They don't hold their value worth the crap. IMO it is almost always a mistake to take a WR in the 1st round.. There of course are a few exceptions, but the Fitzgeralds are few and far between.

Spike, I was just saying "whatif", in my initial post, ok?

My quoted response was to your post saying we didn't need one.

kapeesch? ;)

[MasterShake]

Fine with me. I didn't see anything resembling a west coast offense last year anyway. No running game, no bootlegs. I'll take a high powered multi-faceted offense to go with our explosive offensive potential. How long until September again????

[SmilinAssasSin27]

IIRC, doesn't NE draft a new TE almost every year? It seems like they stockpile FB/TE types and just rotate em off the team for a new set once their deals are up.

[TXBRONC]

IIRC, doesn't NE draft a new TE almost every year? It seems like they stockpile FB/TE types and just rotate em off the team for a new set once their deals are up.

I don't know if they draft one every year. They drafted both Graham and Watson in the first round within two or three years of each other.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

They also got that FB/TE guy from Tulsa and the TE from Texas' natl title team.

[dogfish]

They also got that FB/TE guy from Tulsa and the TE from Texas' natl title team.

david thomas and garrett mills-- got both of 'em while they already had both graham and watson on the roster, IIRC. . . .

[fcspikeit]

Spike, I was just saying "whatif", in my initial post, ok?

My quoted response was to your post saying we didn't need one.

kapeesch? ;)

No worries RC...

I don't remember saying we didn't need one, I did however say I would be upset if we took Crabtree at 12.. I think the reasons are obvious...

[fcspikeit]

david thomas and garrett mills-- got both of 'em while they already had both graham and watson on the roster, IIRC. . . .

Does this mean maybe a TE at 12 isn't as far fetched as some believe?

[Shazam!]

If the Broncos Draft a TE I will be super pissed, but I don't see it. All at Dove Valley know this team needs Defense big time.

[dogfish]

Does this mean maybe a TE at 12 isn't as far fetched as some believe?


well, we really don't have ANYTHING to base a guess on regarding who mcdaniels will want in the draft, as pioli and belly were the guys running it in NE-- but he doesn't have the final say here, either. . . i'm not sure that we've seen enough drafts from the goodmans to start identifying patterns, other than that they're pretty damn good at it. . . personally, i'm not buying for a second that we're interested in pettigrew at #12, even if you do believe blue run that we were seriously interested (which is completely unsubstantiated at this point). . . it's all guess work right now if you don't sit in the team's war room or know someone who does, so i suppose my guess counts about as much as anyone else's. . . :laugh: anything's possible, but i'm not buying it at all. . . .

[Lonestar]

well, we really don't have ANYTHING to base a guess on regarding who mcdaniels will want in the draft, as pioli and belly were the guys running it in NE-- but he doesn't have the final say here, either. . . i'm not sure that we've seen enough drafts from the goodmans to start identifying patterns, other than that they're pretty damn good at it. . . personally, i'm not buying for a second that we're interested in pettigrew at #12, even if you do believe blue run that we were seriously interested (which is completely unsubstantiated at this point). . . it's all guess work right now if you don't sit in the team's war room or know someone who does, so i suppose my guess counts about as much as anyone else's. . . :laugh: anything's possible, but i'm not buying it at all. . . .

While he does not have the final say on who we draft I bet he has has
is wish list started and those scouts and GM will be scouring more than twice it to see if they can come up with what he wants.. Maybe not THE guy he wants but what positions he needs..

[omac]

Does this mean maybe a TE at 12 isn't as far fetched as some believe?

No way are we getting TE or WR in the 1st round; it's gonna be defense, or if we really, really stretch it for offense, a RB.

Though NE may have kept getting TEs, they had nowhere near the needs for defensive players that we have. If we don't get a defensive player in the first, I'd rather just trade away our #1 pick for lower or future picks.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Does this mean maybe a TE at 12 isn't as far fetched as some believe?

They also didn't draft those guys in round 1.

[Rick]

This offense, that offense, blah blah.

While I too am excited to see a change on offense, see something new, to me it is not really going to be different. The same guys will line up, the same guys will score touchdowns at will. Same as last year, same as next year.

Got enough scoring talent as this team does and it will find a way to do just that, score.

What I want to see is what we will do on DEFENSE. I want him getting the team fired up and excited to play DEFENSE, to actually stop somebody or at the very least...slow them down.

[broncofaninfla]

Honetsly I'm a littlke concerned about switching to a new scheme on offense. Odds are we won't be as effective early and will have some growing pains as the players learn the new scheme and terminolgy.

[CoachChaz]

If the defense inproves from #30 to #20...that would be impressive. But it wouldnt really be enough. Therefore, I'm excited to see the changes on offense as well. I think it would be kind of exciting to have a WR on the team with a YPC higher than 12...maybe see Jay throw the ball down field a few times...perhaps not be able to predict when a bubble screen is going to occur...maybe run a play designed to gain more than 6 yards when it's 3rd and 10. Stuff like that

[LRtagger]

Does this mean maybe a TE at 12 isn't as far fetched as some believe?

Nah it means Pioli may take Pettigrew #3 overall :lol:

[lex]

This offense, that offense, blah blah.

While I too am excited to see a change on offense, see something new, to me it is not really going to be different. The same guys will line up, the same guys will score touchdowns at will. Same as last year, same as next year.

Got enough scoring talent as this team does and it will find a way to do just that, score.

What I want to see is what we will do on DEFENSE. I want him getting the team fired up and excited to play DEFENSE, to actually stop somebody or at the very least...slow them down.

The WCO exists to a large extent in name only. The WCO is kind of a generic terms that means different things including not only play design but practice methods, scripting plays, and so on. If I had to choose between keeping the zone blocking and the "WCO", as we ran it, Id go with the zone blocking.

[rcsodak]

Honetsly I'm a littlke concerned about switching to a new scheme on offense. Odds are we won't be as effective early and will have some growing pains as the players learn the new scheme and terminolgy.
Yes, you're right.
And that's one of the reasons most of us were chiding those on the boards for wanting a new HC! With a new one, comes new coordinators, new schemes, but equals learning curves, and early losses!

Prepare yourselves...that's all I have to say.

People asked for it...now they get it.

[rcsodak]

The WCO exists to a large extent in name only. The WCO is kind of a generic terms that means different things including not only play design but practice methods, scripting plays, and so on. If I had to choose between keeping the zone blocking and the "WCO", as we ran it, Id go with the zone blocking.

The way you say that, you'd think the ZBS IS an offensive scheme. :confused:


More and more teams are utilizing the ZBS, that don't use the WCO.

No matter the scheme, I think the ZBS will be kept around, along with some power blocking.

[dogfish]

Prepare yourselves...that's all I have to say.

People asked for it...now they get it.


what's that, an effective defense?


about damn time. . . .

[elsid13]

The way you say that, you'd think the ZBS IS an offensive scheme. :confused:


More and more teams are utilizing the ZBS, that don't use the WCO.

No matter the scheme, I think the ZBS will be kept around, along with some power blocking.

ZBS defines the rushing attack team use, WCO define the passing attack that a team use/concepts. WCO is designed ball control offense that relies on short horizontal passing attack to move the ball and control the clock.

So in reality all McDaniels is bring to Denver is different passing scheme to move the ball and retaining the current rushing attack.

[haroldthebarrel]

The WCO exists to a large extent in name only. The WCO is kind of a generic terms that means different things including not only play design but practice methods, scripting plays, and so on. If I had to choose between keeping the zone blocking and the "WCO", as we ran it, Id go with the zone blocking.

The WCO as mentioned before is dependent upon the sync of the qb and receivers feet. In seven drop the back foot of the qb will be in sync with the outside foot of the receiver and so on.

In that definition of the WCO the Patriots were actually the team that used it the most with especially when they didnt have Welker and Moss and did the three drop slants and curl stuff.

The second thing to say about the WCO is that elements of it will never cease to be. Timing patterns on the first read with a good receiver is very hard to stop. You usually either go zone or bracket, thus allowing the offense to have go routes to stretch the field.
Which again opens up the running lanes forcing the defense to pick its poison.

Finally knowing how great actually McD adapted his offense to injuries and his players skills, I have no doubt we will maintain the zone blocking scheme along with the playaction plays that Shanahan was so great at.
He seems very pragmatic.
This is also underscored by the fact that we used parts of the Pats playbook this year, while they have borrowed a lot of zone stretch plays and playaction plays made mostly famous by Shanahan himself.

I could go on and on about this because this is very interesting to debate but I havent read the whole thread and this should suffice for now.