PDA

View Full Version : T.D. warms up to McDaniels



Den21vsBal19
01-28-2009, 07:42 AM
TD sums it up pretty well, IMO, although I do think the Pats had a slightly better running game than he gives them credit for..........


By Mike Klis
The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11568380)

TAMPA, Fla. — Pat Bowlen probably knows this. Josh McDaniels probably knows this.

When Bowlen, the Broncos' owner, decided the 32-year-old McDaniels would replace Mike Shanahan as head coach, the initial reaction from Broncoland was laced with more befuddlement than pleasure.

And befuddlement might not be the correct word.

"Honestly, when I first heard Josh McDaniels, I didn't think it was a very good pick," said Terrell Davis, the Broncos' best-ever running back. "My first reaction was, 'Wow.' But I think there has to be some excitement about this. I feel it among the Bronco people I talk to. I'm excited to see how they do."

Davis, whose playing career was cut short by a knee injury, is now a talented, forthright analyst for the NFL Network.
He found himself Tuesday analyzing McDaniels, previously the offensive coordinator for the high-scoring Patriots.

"I thought the hire was interesting because he is such a young coach," Davis said. "I know he came from the (Bill) Belichick system. I understand that. But he's still a young coach. He's only been a coordinator for a couple years. But, that said, there's a number of coaches this year not proven as a head coach. (Atlanta's) Mike Smith was not proven as a head coach."

Davis' career essentially consisted of four healthy seasons, yet he holds all the team's significant rushing records, including yards (7,607) and touchdowns (60). The hiring of McDaniels should help Davis keep those records intact.

Ever notice the way New England's offense operated the last three or four seasons? The Patriots' idea of a running play is the receiver screen.

"That's what I'm curious about," Davis said. "Because you've got a team that historically can run the football. I think it's something he's going to try to keep. I think by retaining (running backs coach) Bobby Turner and (offensive line coach Rick) Dennison, I think that's what he's trying to do. I think he's trying to keep some semblance, to make sure he's got that intact. And I think he should do that. Because if they scrap the whole thing and start from scratch, I don't like their chances."

In case McDaniels didn't know this, he does now: T.D. is not afraid to offer advice.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

TXBRONC
01-28-2009, 07:51 AM
Thanks mate!

I don't know how much T.D.'s endorsement helps in the locker room but it could prove to be beneficial to skeptical fans.

That is those with screen names of Lex and Nature Boy. :lol: I'm just kidding guys.

omac
01-28-2009, 08:21 AM
In that article, there wasn't really any endorsement or "warming up" by T.D. He's just willing to see what McDaniels can do. I do hope he runs the ball more, even if it means a few more 3 and outs; we'll need to develop that confidence in our run game to keep defenses honest.

I wonder if Torain can stay healthy this time. :coffee:

Den21vsBal19
01-28-2009, 08:43 AM
In that article, there wasn't really any endorsement or "warming up" by T.D. He's just willing to see what McDaniels can do. I do hope he runs the ball more, even if it means a few more 3 and outs; we'll need to develop that confidence in our run game to keep defenses honest.

I wonder if Torain can stay healthy this time. :coffee:
With Tuten still around, only if another position gets his TLC this season :tsk:

omac
01-28-2009, 09:31 AM
With Tuten still around, only if another position gets his TLC this season :tsk:

LOL, so true. Wish Tuten would go to the Chargers; I'd like to see how they'd do with 7 RBs on IR. :D

broncofaninfla
01-28-2009, 10:21 AM
From RMN:

Perhaps the biggest issue Broncos great Terrell Davis sees his former organization facing these days is rediscovering just what it wants to be on the field.
"To me, it's just the inconsistent play on the field," the former running back said Tuesday between Super Bowl Media Day sessions, a full 10 years since he was preparing for the second of Denver's back-to-back championships.
"They really don't have an identity," he added. "Who is this team? What are they trying to do? When I played, you know what we were trying to do."
Rediscovering a go-to philosophy, though, will be the responsibility of new coach Josh McDaniels. The prospect of moving on without Mike Shanahan at the helm remains "weird" and "surprising" to Davis, the NFL's 1998 Most Valuable Player.
And he isn't yet willing to concede the new boss is the same as the old boss.
"I'm more of a wait-and-see guy. I don't know," Davis said. "I know Josh has done great in New England. But you also see assistants leave New England, as in Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini. You see these two guys go and you expect them to be great because they come from a pretty good program. But that hasn't been the result. I'm waiting to see if (McDaniels) can do it. The fact that he's a young guy, there's going to be some challenges there."
Davis' teams had few problems when he joined the Broncos. By his second season, the team was the No. 1 seed in the 1996 playoffs but was upset by Jacksonville at home. The wins in Super Bowls XXXII and XXXIII followed.
But in the past decade, Denver has won only one postseason game, contributing heavily to Shanahan's firing after 14 seasons.
After the firing, Davis went on the set of NFL Network's Total Access program, for which he serves as analyst, and chided the Broncos for unceremoniously dumping his former coach.
In hindsight, Davis has reconsidered his position some.
"Maybe I'm a little nostalgic, so I think about the great years we had with him and how great a coach he was," Davis said. "And I think more so about those times and those days that I tend not to think of recent memory. So I'm a little biased when it comes to Mike because I'm thinking, 'What he had worked. His formula was good.' But maybe in today's game, with the guys that he has, maybe the message was just not the same.
"A nice suit 10 years ago may not be a nice suit today."
Davis is impressed with the Broncos' current offensive core and sees the retention of assistant coaches Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison as a sign the team will retain the tried-and-true Denver running game.
Davis would like to see one back emerge as the workhorse in that system.

"They need one guy . . . ," he said. "The one guy I've heard - and I've talked to a number of guys on that team - is Ryan Torain. They say he's the guy. But I've only got three looks at him. So it's hard to make a (judgment)."

But true work - and identity - is needed on defense, where the team is expected to switch to a hybrid 3-4 scheme.
"They've gone through so many defensive coordinators, it's ridiculous," Davis said.

I like the feedback he is getting from the guys about Torain.

G_Money
01-28-2009, 11:10 AM
I'm terrified that we want to put the running game in the hands of a guy who was a JuCo kid, then had a couple of the rough edges taken off in one season of true college football, then had experimental foot surgery that cost him a year, then busted an elbow that cost him 2 more months, then blew out a couple of knee ligaments in his first game.

If it’s me, there’s no way in the universe I go into the season without adding another back with a legit shot at 1200-1400 yards.

That isn’t Young, or Hall, or Alridge.

I don’t need the back we add to GET that, but he should be a legit back. Adding 700 yard backs is not helping us – we have those.

Technically, Hillis is one of those most likely. If we want to use him as a receiver it’s gonna cut down on his carries. If we let him be our Alstott…well, Alstott didn’t run for a ton of yards. He just got the hard ones.

So if our roster goes “Bruising back good for 600 yards on the ground and 400 in the air, backup back who gets injured all the time and can’t run up the middle, other backup back who got injured last year and also has trouble in the middle of the field, scatback who can be a part-time receiver” etc, then we need another back.

Having Torain as the only guy we think can shoulder the load is frightening, since he’s had a series of devastating injuries and we have no idea how his knee will heal. Most RBs need their knees, and we have first-hand experience that even great backs can’t always come back successfully from devastating knee injuries.

I’d add another real back, and then if Torain ALSO turns out to be a killer, great! It frees Hillis up to be more of an H-Back, and in this offense that might mean more touches since he can catch like a demon.

I don’t have any problem having our own version of LT and Michael Turner, or MB III and Jones, with Hillis as a short-yardage thumper, blocker, receiver, and TD saluter. Having more weapons to try to fit in is always preferable to not enough.

But I’d hate to count on Torain to be Michael Turner and have him turn into Selvin Young, sitting on the sidelines watching the action with an ice pack on whatever new injury is afflicting him, while our running game crumples and dies again.

~G

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 11:38 AM
T-A-T-U-M B-E-L-L

The guy got 1000 on his own and almost 1000 sharing the load with a "big" back. Then came in off the street and performed very well.

Still looking for a reason why he cant be a 1200 yard guy in a backfield with Hillis

omac
01-28-2009, 11:43 AM
T-A-T-U-M B-E-L-L

The guy got 1000 on his own and almost 1000 sharing the load with a "big" back. Then came in off the street and performed very well.

Still looking for a reason why he cant be a 1200 yard guy in a backfield with Hillis

Denver might be too windy for his running style .... :D

G_Money
01-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Bell could be.

Hall could be too.

So could Torain.

I guess I’m not content to count on that. Tatum can stay, but I don’t want to slot him in as a starter. The rule of thumb is, “any back can get a thousand yards in this system.” But all backs are not equal. With Hillis, I don’t have to rely on Bell or Young in short yardage, which is crucial. Bell cannot convert short yardage.

So if we decide not to add a good back in the draft and take a project instead, or none at all, then we’ll try to survive with Tatum between the 20s and Hillis inside the 20s, and we’ll throw the ball a lot. There are worse fates.

But if somebody like Donald Brown is somehow there in the 3rd and we pass him over for a project DE, that sound you hear is gonna be me dropkicking my TV across the room.

Because competence is good – we can win games with competence.

But you win championships with excellence.

Indy dumped an excellent back for a competent one and won the SB at long last, so it’s doable if you have your excellence in other areas.

But I’m not opposed to adding excellence back into our running attack, since that’s the only way we’ve won a championship in our history.

~G

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Denver might be too windy for his running style .... :D

As evidenced by his stats

54 games...almost 3000 yards...4.9 ypc and 16 TD's

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 11:54 AM
Bell could be.

Hall could be too.

So could Torain.

I guess I’m not content to count on that. Tatum can stay, but I don’t want to slot him in as a starter. The rule of thumb is, “any back can get a thousand yards in this system.” But all backs are not equal. With Hillis, I don’t have to rely on Bell or Young in short yardage, which is crucial. Bell cannot convert short yardage.

So if we decide not to add a good back in the draft and take a project instead, or none at all, then we’ll try to survive with Tatum between the 20s and Hillis inside the 20s, and we’ll throw the ball a lot. There are worse fates.

But if somebody like Donald Brown is somehow there in the 3rd and we pass him over for a project DE, that sound you hear is gonna be me dropkicking my TV across the room.

Because competence is good – we can win games with competence.

But you win championships with excellence.

Indy dumped an excellent back for a competent one and won the SB at long last, so it’s doable if you have your excellence in other areas.

But I’m not opposed to adding excellence back into our running attack, since that’s the only way we’ve won a championship in our history.

~G



Dont get me wrong. If Brown or Jennings are available in the third as opposed to a depth pick...I snatch them up quick. But if the chips fall in a manner where we dont end up picking up a new back...I'm perfectly okay with the Bell/Hillis combo.

G_Money
01-28-2009, 12:01 PM
Pretty much.

Obviously, I have RB as a need.

Of course, we also have NT, DE, ILB, OLB, SS, OG/C, possibly FS and backup CB as needs too.

If we add some of those other needs in FA I push RB up the board. If we can’t get some of those needs filled in FA then I can live with our RBBC again this year, since Hillis proved he can get those tough runs we were unable to get the year before.

But if a top back falls, I would snatch him up quick, even if we don’t have all of our other needs filled.

~G

omac
01-28-2009, 12:10 PM
As evidenced by his stats

54 games...almost 3000 yards...4.9 ypc and 16 TD's

I just wish he wasn't so easy to take down.

I agree with G_Money that if we could get a solid, tough, dependable, non-injury prone RB, we should.

I don't want Tatum to be part of the starting lineup, and Torain hasn't proven that he could stay away from injuries.

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 12:35 PM
I just wish he wasn't so easy to take down.

I agree with G_Money that if we could get a solid, tough, dependable, non-injury prone RB, we should.

I don't want Tatum to be part of the starting lineup, and Torain hasn't proven that he could stay away from injuries.

I dont know that I'd call a back averaging 5 yards a carry as "easy to take down". Dont get me wrong, I realize Bell's shortcomings. but if he can pound out 1000 yards with Hillis picking up the tougher ones...I can live with that for another year

Cugel
01-28-2009, 01:18 PM
Pretty much.

Obviously, I have RB as a need.

Of course, we also have NT, DE, ILB, OLB, SS, OG/C, possibly FS and backup CB as needs too.

If we add some of those other needs in FA I push RB up the board. If we can’t get some of those needs filled in FA then I can live with our RBBC again this year, since Hillis proved he can get those tough runs we were unable to get the year before.

But if a top back falls, I would snatch him up quick, even if we don’t have all of our other needs filled.

~G

That depends on what round. The Broncos found Hillis in the 7th round after all and he's a perfectly good RB. He's not super-fast, and he won't break many (read ANY) 40-50 yard runs, but he's tough, doesn't fumble, and is great in short-yardage. He runs downhill, and gets extra yards after contact.

I feel a LOT less uneasy seeing him running the ball on 3rd and 3 than Andre Hall, Selvin Young or any of the other backs currently on the roster. You know if he gets hit after 2 yards he's still going to pick up the first down.

With Young, you don't.

IF Denver had a sound core of players on defense like San Diego does, then we could afford to ignore other needs and take a 1st round RB like Moreno.

But we don't. Instead we've got NOTHING at all on defense. DJ Williams and Champ Bailey. That's TWO players who would start if traded to another team. The rest probably to certainly would NOT.

And that means only 1 out of the entire front 7 players are any good at all!

The rest are backups.

Right now, if Thomas, Moss and Dumervil improve they could become full blown starters for a decent defense. That wouldn't mean they were all pros, just good enough to start in the NFL. Because right now they are limited (Dumervil/Thomas) or BUSTS Moss/Crowder.

So, I'd be perfectly happy picking up a RB in the 6th round or something and adding another RB by FA, like Shanahan tried to do with Travis Henry.

That might have worked if Henry wasn't such a fool. He had some ability, to play in this league but he just pissed it away. Sadly those 9 kids aren't going to be getting any more paychecks while he's in prison. :rolleyes:

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 01:27 PM
I am not prepared to call Moss and Crowder a bust yet.

Crowder played very well as a rookie and then somehow found himself in the Shanny doghouse. Not sure why, but it wasnt like he was allowed to get there by screwing up on the field.

Moss sees limited playing time and probably rightfully so...but in a different role or with better coaching...maybe he produces.

I just dont see either of these guys as having had much opportunity to prove if they have value

broncofaninfla
01-28-2009, 01:57 PM
I am not prepared to call Moss and Crowder a bust yet.

Crowder played very well as a rookie and then somehow found himself in the Shanny doghouse. Not sure why, but it wasnt like he was allowed to get there by screwing up on the field.

Moss sees limited playing time and probably rightfully so...but in a different role or with better coaching...maybe he produces.

I just dont see either of these guys as having had much opportunity to prove if they have value

I agree. I have been quick to call both busts but I am somewhat optimistic both might be able to produce with a new scheme taught by new coaches.

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 02:18 PM
I just realized something in reference to the title of this thread.

I love TD...but couldnt really give a shit if he feels "warm" about McDaniels or not.

Bozo Jr.
01-28-2009, 03:21 PM
LOL, so true. Wish Tuten would go to the Chargers; I'd like to see how they'd do with 7 RBs on IR. :D

No doubt, I'm completely shocked Tuten was retained. Last seasons "conditioning" was a joke, and the "strength" part is just laughable! :tsk:

MOtorboat
01-28-2009, 03:24 PM
I dont know that I'd call a back averaging 5 yards a carry as "easy to take down". Dont get me wrong, I realize Bell's shortcomings. but if he can pound out 1000 yards with Hillis picking up the tougher ones...I can live with that for another year...while we fix the defense.

:beer:

lex
01-28-2009, 11:27 PM
Im glad to see theres a public voice who values the running game.

omac
01-29-2009, 09:23 AM
I dont know that I'd call a back averaging 5 yards a carry as "easy to take down". Dont get me wrong, I realize Bell's shortcomings. but if he can pound out 1000 yards with Hillis picking up the tougher ones...I can live with that for another year

I could very well be mistaken, but it seems like Tatum gets very minimal yardage or even loses yardage a bunch, then sometimes breaks off a big run outside. That might be inflating his numbers.

What I don't like about Tatum ... in the Panthers game, he was to the outside towards the left and the persuit held him in check, but instead of lowering his shoulder and trying to get an extra 1 or 2 yards, he just runs out of bounds. It's like he just really wants to run outside. It sure looked that way anyway.

On a side note, Tatum might be the type of back who'll excel in a Patriots style running offense, where the backs are not asked to be driving force of the offense.

Lonestar
01-29-2009, 11:47 AM
I could very well be mistaken, but it seems like Tatum gets very minimal yardage or even loses yardage a bunch, then sometimes breaks off a big run outside. That might be inflating his numbers.

What I don't like about Tatum ... in the Panthers game, he was to the outside towards the left and the persuit held him in check, but instead of lowering his shoulder and trying to get an extra 1 or 2 yards, he just runs out of bounds. It's like he just really wants to run outside. It sure looked that way anyway.

On a side note, Tatum might be the type of back who'll excel in a Patriots style running offense, where the backs are not asked to be driving force of the offense.


What has alway pissed me off about tater was everyones constant cheer leading "he can take it to the house on any play" they love his speed and thought that he was the second coming of poorti$$$..

But we have all seen he was not the 2nd coming and rarely over his career here has taken it to the house..

If we can get past that crap and see him as most others have, the product of our system and a failure out side it.. perhaps he can be a "NE RB".

But I'd rather have a Hillis type that can get the tough yards and occasionally break one off for 15-25 yards.. Get me another 225 RB to trade off with and I think we are set..

After all Hillis had a 5.0+ YPC 340+ yards in 4-5 games and a bunch of receptions and yards.. Had it not been for a freak injury I think no one would be wondering who was the future RB for the next few years..

TXBRONC
01-29-2009, 12:55 PM
I could very well be mistaken, but it seems like Tatum gets very minimal yardage or even loses yardage a bunch, then sometimes breaks off a big run outside. That might be inflating his numbers.

What I don't like about Tatum ... in the Panthers game, he was to the outside towards the left and the persuit held him in check, but instead of lowering his shoulder and trying to get an extra 1 or 2 yards, he just runs out of bounds. It's like he just really wants to run outside. It sure looked that way anyway.

On a side note, Tatum might be the type of back who'll excel in a Patriots style running offense, where the backs are not asked to be driving force of the offense.


Yes he prefers to run to the outside, and that alright but I would have like to run a little bit harder between the tackles.

TXBRONC
01-29-2009, 01:01 PM
What has alway pissed me off about tater was everyones constant cheer leading "he can take it to the house on any play" they love his speed and thought that he was the second coming of poorti$$$..

But we have all seen he was not the 2nd coming and rarely over his career here has taken it to the house..

If we can get past that crap and see him as most others have, the product of our system and a failure out side it.. perhaps he can be a "NE RB".

But I'd rather have a Hillis type that can get the tough yards and occasionally break one off for 15-25 yards.. Get me another 225 RB to trade off with and I think we are set..

After all Hillis had a 5.0+ YPC 340+ yards in 4-5 games and a bunch of receptions and yards.. Had it not been for a freak injury I think no one would be wondering who was the future RB for the next few years..

Well then you were pissed off for no reason, because no ever said anything being the second coming of Portis, that's jut you reading into it. It's really crazy that you hate the guy because replaced your beloved Quetin Griffin.

Apparently Jr you didn't watch too many games, in 2004 and 2005 because he did break off a lot long runs and did take it to the house several times.

omac
01-29-2009, 09:52 PM
I can appreciate what Tatum can contribute, but I wouldn't want him in the game a lot, and I definitely wouldn't want him as a starter. Like Jrwiz and TXBRONC, I wish he could run harder through people.

For a starting RB, I'd rather have a guy who'll consistently get 3 to 6 hard yards each play, instead of a guy who'll once in a while break off a big run. In RBs, I'm more of a fan of the grinders than the home run hitters. Forte over McFadden any day, at least the McFadden we've seen this season.

Slaton's a speed guy, but as physically unintimdating as he is, he knows how to get the tough yards. With Bell's build, he should be stronger between the tackles than he shows.

TXBRONC
01-29-2009, 10:16 PM
I can appreciate what Tatum can contribute, but I wouldn't want him in the game a lot, and I definitely wouldn't want him as a starter. Like Jrwiz and TXBRONC, I wish he could run harder through people.

For a starting RB, I'd rather have a guy who'll consistently get 3 to 6 hard yards each play, instead of a guy who'll once in a while break off a big run. In RBs, I'm more of a fan of the grinders than the home run hitters. Forte over McFadden any day, at least the McFadden we've seen this season.

Slaton's a speed guy, but as physically unintimdating as he is, he knows how to get the tough yards. With Bell's build, he should be stronger between the tackles than he shows.

If Tatum is in shape 10-15 carries is ideal for him.

Simple Jaded
01-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Ryan Torain wasn't even the best back on his JuCo team.

Overrated.......