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Blue Run
01-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Good evening Broncos fans,
I had debated whether to post now, I got some whiplash by someone aware of this and some regs. on the board are miffed. I debated whether to bury this. I received a few condemning PM's and don't wish to upset the diehard fans. But now my agenda calls.
That said, DEN isn't hiding their desire for brute Igor Olshansky. He is at wits end with A.J. Smith and is not in the Bolt plans. He hates it there, and he hates the key figures. Not his scene if you get my drift. I understand DEN won't go over $8M guaranteed (which I think is low).
He's in my circle and hopefully this registers where it needs to. I've been with this kid since the combine and he is even stronger now than he was then.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 09:41 PM
Yeah...I'm sure he's wanted:

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Northman
01-27-2009, 09:41 PM
Igor wont come to Denver unless they unload the bank which wont happen. Igor hates (and i mean HATES) the Denver Broncos. Especially the Olineman who he continuelly criticizes in public for being cheap artists.

JKcatch724
01-27-2009, 09:43 PM
I hate that guy

PatricktheDookie
01-27-2009, 09:45 PM
I do like the thought of taking a good player away from the Chargers, though.

Hmm...

Would it cost against the salary cap if we just hired some guy to follow Philip Rivers around wherever he goes and keep yelling "Jackass!" at him?

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 09:45 PM
I do like the thought of taking a good player away from the Chargers, though.

Hmm...

Would it cost against the salary cap if we just hired some guy to follow Philip Rivers around wherever he goes and keep yelling "Jackass!" at him?

I like that better than this one...just saying...

Blue Run
01-27-2009, 09:46 PM
A DEN scout told me a conversation they had recently about Moreno - DEN does not want to pick a RB in round 1, but acknowledges their need for an impact player - and said emphatically they DO NOT want him to slip to the Bolts.
Moreno is a stud - he is working out with Bill Parisi at Parisi's Speed and Power School in New Jersey and has made great strides in a short time. He was already damn impressive before being introduced to the pro style weight and explosion training.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 09:47 PM
FWIW:

Olshansky sucked ass this season without Merriman over his shoulder.


Season Team Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FUM Lost
2008 San Diego Chargers 16 13 29 21 8 2.0 -- 0 -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- --
2007 San Diego Chargers 16 16 49 35 14 3.5 -- 3 1 0 0.0 0 0 -- --
2006 San Diego Chargers 13 13 33 18 15 1.5 -- 1 -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- --
2005 San Diego Chargers 14 12 29 18 11 3.0 -- 0 -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- --
2004 San Diego Chargers 16 16 39 24 15 1.0 -- 2 -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- --

Northman
01-27-2009, 09:49 PM
A DEN scout told me a conversation they had recently about Moreno - DEN does not want to pick a RB in round 1, but acknowledges their need for an impact player - and said emphatically they DO NOT want him to slip to the Bolts.
Moreno is a stud - he is working out with Bill Parisi at Parisi's Speed and Power School in New Jersey and has made great strides in a short time. He was already damn impressive before being introduced to the pro style weight and explosion training.


If SD wants a RB in round 1 there is nothing Denver can do to stop it. Walter's has SD taking Wells with their first pick.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 09:50 PM
Omfg

Blue Run
01-27-2009, 09:52 PM
This is a new scheme and a new coaching staff, it's funny how an athlete's feelings change when it's contract time.
Reminds me of old KR/PR Brian Mitchell, who spent his entire career talking trash about the Giants, then signed there at the end of his career. And was completely shot, which wasn't good. Giants fans didn't like him and he didn't like the org. But he signed anyway.
FWIW, Nolan is more interested in Antonio Smith but I am not sure what kind of pull he is going to get. He's been used to making the decisions in SF, that's for sure.

slim
01-27-2009, 09:53 PM
Sadly, Igor will not be coming to Denver. Spoke with an assistant in the SD pro personnel department yesterday and Igor has NO interest in Denver. If fact, Denver has NO interest in Igor.

This is one crazy ass rumor....my sources tell me that the Broncos may be interested in Antonio Garay or Simon Fraser. But Igor is not coming to Denver.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 09:55 PM
If SD wants a RB in round 1 there is nothing Denver can do to stop it. Walter's has SD taking Wells with their first pick.

Taking Moreno to "keep him away" from San Diego, is utterly stupid. If that's the reasoning that the Goodmans have for drafting someone, they need to go.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 09:56 PM
Unfortunately I kinda like Moreno...but eventually we'll have serious interest in every RB in the draft before April comes.

Blue Run
01-27-2009, 09:59 PM
The Broncos love Moreno and realize they need an impact player at the position. The fact that they know the Bolts will jump at him - and then have to face him twice a year - is just complicating the situation.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 10:01 PM
we'll have to face whoever they daft twice per year.

slim
01-27-2009, 10:02 PM
we'll have to face whoever they daft twice per year.

Good Point SmilinAss,

How do you feel about Denver taking a TE in round 1?

ktrain
01-27-2009, 10:04 PM
A DEN scout told me a conversation they had recently about Moreno - DEN does not want to pick a RB in round 1, but acknowledges their need for an impact player - and said emphatically they DO NOT want him to slip to the Bolts.
Moreno is a stud - he is working out with Bill Parisi at Parisi's Speed and Power School in New Jersey and has made great strides in a short time. He was already damn impressive before being introduced to the pro style weight and explosion training.

he'll breakoff 2k in our system

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 10:05 PM
Good Point SmilinAss,

How do you feel about Denver taking a TE in round 1?

It's a lock...unless we go a different direction.

DenBronx
01-27-2009, 10:06 PM
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k272/DenBronx/2229513340_06136bb479.jpg

slim
01-27-2009, 10:06 PM
It's a lock...unless we go a different direction.

Well, TE is the obvious choice...I guess. Either that or WR (maybe QB).

red98
01-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Good Point SmilinAss,

How do you feel about Denver taking a TE in round 1?

My sources tell me that the Broncos will not take a TE in round one.

They say they really like the DT from Boston and are playing out trade up scenerios if his stock keeps rising. They are afraid he will end up in KC or OAk and will have to face him 2x a year.

As for Olshansky my sources say he is a douchebag and Nails will kick Pat Bowlen in the balls if he tries to sign him.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 10:07 PM
he'll breakoff 2k in our system

lol.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 10:08 PM
Well, TE is the obvious choice...I guess. Either that or WR (maybe QB).

Don't forget OLB, MLB, OLine, Dline, CB and Safety. My insiders say it'll be one of the positions that we've discussed.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 10:09 PM
My sources tell me that the Broncos will not take a TE in round one.

They say they really like the DT from Boston and are playing out trade up scenerios if his stock keeps rising. They are afraid he will end up in KC or OAk and will have to face him 2x a year.

As for Olshansky my sources say he is a douchebag and Nails will kick Pat Bowlen in the balls if he tries to sign him.

My sources say the Chiefs, KC and Oak can draft whomever they want because we'll be moving into the NFC North by 2011. You heard it here first folks.

slim
01-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Don't forget OLB, MLB, OLine, Dline, CB and Safety. My insiders say it'll be one of the positions that we've discussed.

I would tend to agree, but only if you include kicker and punter.

G_Money
01-27-2009, 10:57 PM
Fellas...

If all of you get to wave your dicks around this board with impunity and spout off whatever pops into your head and we all have to be polite and treat you like you know what the hell you're talking about, then Blue Run can wave his dick around too.

Being here longer doesn't mean any of our ideas are better. I don't care if you don't like him or you think he's a 400 pound inbred radiologist from Opelika, just talk about the ideas.

Jr hates Shanahan, lex hates McDaniels, Nature Boy hates the universe, MB cusses out everyone when he's drunk...

We're all weirdos who spout off about shit we care about but are not on the inside of.

I come here to talk about the Broncos, or maybe find out what weird shit Clay is posting about in The Lounge.

I've been to plenty of other boards where the way to silence the opposition is to ridicule them until they get annoyed and leave. And then the number of people in the sandbox is smaller, and the sides of arguments become carved in stone, and you get to pick your side - God help you if you're on the other side.

The day this board gets like that, I'm outta here.

And you should be too, because it's not the sort of place that welcomes viewpoints from outside the box and your experience will be the lesser for it.

This is a place to talk about football. Blue Run is talking about football. If you think it's silly to draft a TE in the first, then let's debate it.

Running off the guy who started the debate because you don't think he is who he says he is happens to be childish. Nobody knows who anybody is on the internet. I could be an anorexic hooker from 11 mile - none of you have met me.

If he said, "I wonder if the Broncos would take a long look at Moreno in the first. Wells could be gone and we need a back desperately, and it would keep him out of SD's hands too..." would you talk about it?

If so, then talk about it when he posts that as "insider info." There are posters who post with English being their 3rd or 4th language. Makes it hard to understand all the time, but I don't exclude them from the conversation because I don't like the WAY they made their post.

It's a long offseason, dammit, and I intend to spend it talking about the Broncos. If 53 people want to lurk on the boards and the only guy adding ideas is Blue Run, then I'm gonna talk about whatever silly idea pops into his head to post.

If you run him off, then one of you had better start posting some better, more conversation-worthy ideas in his place. Got it?

~G

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:06 PM
Fellas...

If all of you get to wave your dicks around this board with impunity and spout off whatever pops into your head and we all have to be polite and treat you like you know what the hell you're talking about, then Blue Run can wave his dick around too.

Being here longer doesn't mean any of our ideas are better. I don't care if you don't like him or you think he's a 400 pound inbred radiologist from Opelika, just talk about the ideas.

Jr hates Shanahan, lex hates McDaniels, Nature Boy hates the universe, MB cusses out everyone when he's drunk...

We're all weirdos who spout off about shit we care about but are not on the inside of.

I come here to talk about the Broncos, or maybe find out what weird shit Clay is posting about in The Lounge.

I've been to plenty of other boards where the way to silence the opposition is to ridicule them until they get annoyed and leave. And then the number of people in the sandbox is smaller, and the sides of arguments become carved in stone, and you get to pick your side - God help you if you're on the other side.

The day this board gets like that, I'm outta here.

And you should be too, because it's not the sort of place that welcomes viewpoints from outside the box and your experience will be the lesser for it.

This is a place to talk about football. Blue Run is talking about football. If you think it's silly to draft a TE in the first, then let's debate it.

Running off the guy who started the debate because you don't think he is who he says he is happens to be childish. Nobody knows who anybody is on the internet. I could be an anorexic hooker from 11 mile - none of you have met me.

If he said, "I wonder if the Broncos would take a long look at Moreno in the first. Wells could be gone and we need a back desperately, and it would keep him out of SD's hands too..." would you talk about it?

If so, then talk about it when he posts that as "insider info." There are posters who post with English being their 3rd or 4th language. Makes it hard to understand all the time, but I don't exclude them from the conversation because I don't like the WAY they made their post.

It's a long offseason, dammit, and I intend to spend it talking about the Broncos. If 53 people want to lurk on the boards and the only guy adding ideas is Blue Run, then I'm gonna talk about whatever silly idea pops into his head to post.

If you run him off, then one of you had better start posting some better, more conversation-worthy ideas in his place. Got it?

~G

The only difference is that I don't claim to be an "insider."

I know I'm not. I post my ideas. I don't post false truths.

DenBronx
01-27-2009, 11:10 PM
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k272/DenBronx/untitled-17.jpg

G_Money
01-27-2009, 11:14 PM
There IS no truth at this point of the process.

All of the pre-bowl mocks are changing, and will change again post-Combine.

It's the nature of the beast. And even once every insider there is posts his final mock hours before draft, nobody is still gonna get it right.

If Mayock was posting on this board it would do us no more good than Blue Run at this exact moment, and the commentary would be about as scattershot, because the Broncos are busy building their database and pummeling their draft board into a rough outline.

If he's a fake, then the conversations are amusing and pass the time.

If he's legit, then they're amusing and pass the time, cuz it's still too early to know anything for sure.

If he doesn't post at all, then we have fewer threads, fewer discussions to have and debates to formulate, and I might have to get work done.

Who the hell wants that??

~G

Lonestar
01-27-2009, 11:19 PM
Great post G. I could not have said it better..

Many folks on here myself included think they knew what mikey was going to do and then he made asses out of 98% of of us.. The other 2% where morons..

I will say it one more time if you have something topic to debate fine.

We attack the post here and not the poster..

BTW I do not Hate Shanahan I dislike Mikey the GM.. But that is water now under the bridge..

red98
01-27-2009, 11:20 PM
If he said, "I wonder if the Broncos would take a long look at Moreno in the first. Wells could be gone and we need a back desperately, and it would keep him out of SD's hands too..." would you talk about it?

~G

Sure, but Blue claims to have inside info. When you make those claims be prepared to be challenged on it.

I always enjoy reading your posts G, lots of great info and insights, even if you are a hooker from 11 mile.

Blue could post all his thoughts and dreams without getting extra flak, but instead chooses to portray his posts as insider news. He deserves the resultant crap that he gets.


That said I do give him props for his creative, if sometimes goofy, ideas.

I just wish he would take credit for them instead of pretending it's insider news.


It's the offseason so I hope he sticks around and keeps us entertained, and
I am sure he is man enough to take the extra ribbing he gets.

frauschieze
01-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Sure, but Blue claims to have inside info. When you make those claims be prepared to be challenged on it.

I always enjoy reading your posts G, lots of great info and insights, even if you are a hooker from 11 mile.

Blue could post all his thoughts and dreams without getting extra flak, but instead chooses to portray his posts as insider news. He deserves the resultant crap that he gets.


That said I do give him props for his creative, if sometimes goofy, ideas.

I just wish he would take credit for them instead of pretending it's insider news.


It's the offseason so I hope he sticks around and keeps us entertained, and
I am sure he is man enough to take the extra ribbing he gets.

No, he does not deserve the resulting crap regardless of who he is. Attacking the poster is against the rules. Skepticism is not. Keep it in the right category.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:24 PM
Great post G. I could not have said it better..

Many folks on here myself included think they knew what mikey was going to do and then he made asses out of 98% of of us.. The other 2% where morons..

I will say it one more time if you have something topic to debate fine.

We attack the post here and not the poster..

BTW I do not Hate Shanahan I dislike Mikey the GM.. But that is water now under the bridge..


No, he does not deserve the resulting crap regardless of who he is. Attacking the poster is against the rules. Skepticism is not. Keep it in the right category.

No one is attacking the poster. They are attacking the credibility of the post that said poster made.

Let's get that straight.

Lonestar
01-27-2009, 11:28 PM
No one is attacking the poster. They are attacking the credibility of the post that said poster made.

Let's get that straight.

perhaps you have been reading different post than I have or Frau has..

most were mocking him.. very few attacked his post directly..

Please everyone either read them and post or stay out of his thread.. The IGGY button is very easy to use.. I STRONGLY recommend it..

frauschieze
01-27-2009, 11:29 PM
No one is attacking the poster. They are attacking the credibility of the post that said poster made.

Let's get that straight.

Or attacking the credibility of the poster? It's a fine line. Offer debate and not flippant remarks or keep your mouth shut.

This is directed at everyone in the thread.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:30 PM
perhaps you have been reading different post than I have or Frau has..

most were mocking him.. very few attacked his post directly..

Please everyone either read them and post or stay out of his thread.. The IGGY button is very easy to use.. I STRONGLY recommend it..


Or attacking the credibility of the poster? It's a fine line. Offer debate and not flippant remarks or keep your mouth shut.

This is directed at everyone in the thread.

When you post "insider" information, you subject yourself to criticism.

Sorry, but that's the way it goes.

slim
01-27-2009, 11:31 PM
No one is attacking the poster. They are attacking the credibility of the post that said poster made.

Let's get that straight.

Thin line, I guess.

BTW, I was speaking to one of Barracks cabinet members yesterday...man, the things I heard.

slim
01-27-2009, 11:32 PM
When you post "insider" information, you subject yourself to criticism.

Sorry, but that's the way it goes.

Easy on the mods, MO. They are always the last to know.

NightTrainLayne
01-27-2009, 11:33 PM
MO's got a point I think.

I think G's got a point as well.

I like reading the stuff. I'd prefer he was here to share it with us, just to stimulate my brain about it and have some conversation.

So, I'd prefer we don't run him off, but at the same time it's hard to fault someone for questioning the source or it's credibility.

Just keep it coming Blue Run, and ignore the criticisms.

Italianmobstr7
01-27-2009, 11:35 PM
I'd take Moreno, but only if Maulauga is gone.

DenBronx
01-27-2009, 11:35 PM
so far none of his post have any credibility. no link is a rumor. anyone can make up a rumor and get all fuzy inside when everyone goes boinkers about it. ZOINKS, ASAMGWA IZ A BRONKOS!!!!11! spags was only stating the obvious. anyone who followed the broncos already knew that spags was on our radar. it was reported that mcdaniels was the favorite days before blue run said it came down to those 2. in fact it DIDNT come down to mcdaniels and spags. it came down to mcdaniels and morris.

look we all enjoy rumors. but im not buying into it. i dont mind discussing absurd ideas of going after a kicker in round 1 but hey like i said earlier some things just dont sound right at all. thats just me. sorry if it makes someone want to surf another web site.

for the record. it wasnt me that sent blue a pm. blue if can somehow backup the rumors of igor, pettigrew, ect. then i say you get mad props for insider of the year award. in the mean time we will all have fun wasting our days in the offseason talking about football right?

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:36 PM
MO's got a point I think.

I think G's got a point as well.

I like reading the stuff. I'd prefer he was here to share it with us, just to stimulate my brain about it and have some conversation.

So, I'd prefer we don't run him off, but at the same time it's hard to fault someone for questioning the source or it's credibility.

Just keep it coming Blue Run, and ignore the criticisms.

"Insider" information is always subject to criticism. It's the same criticism that so many people have vocalized about Mortensen in the last few months. Does it make it OK to criticize Mort because he doesn't post here, and make it not OK to criticize Blue Run because he does post here? IMO...no. People mock non-posters all the time, especially journalists. /endjournalismrant

If you post "insider" information with little credibility, you're going to get criticized, and yes, in some cases, mocked.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:37 PM
And we know for sure he is not? Just because mikey and crew had the tightest sphincters in the world does not mean Mc Kid does..

Probably realizes he is good and does not have to be paranoid that someone will steal his picks like mikey did..

Mike didn't have a "tight sphincter."

Mike talked to people, made it known, and then drafted someone else EVERY YEAR.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:39 PM
so far none of his post have any credibility. no link is a rumor. anyone can make up a rumor and get all fuzy inside when everyone goes boinkers about it. ZOINKS, ASAMGWA IZ A BRONKOS!!!!11! spags was only stating the obvious. anyone who followed the broncos already knew that spags was on our radar. it was reported that mcdaniels was the favorite days before blue run said it came down to those 2. in fact it DIDNT come down to mcdaniels and spags. it came down to mcdaniels and morris.

look we all enjoy rumors. but im not buying into it. i dont mind discussing absurd ideas of going after a kicker in round 1 but hey like i said earlier some things just dont sound right at all. thats just me. sorry if it makes someone want to surf another web site.

for the record. it wasnt me that sent blue a pm. blue if can somehow backup the rumors of igor, pettigrew, ect. then i say you get mad props for insider of the year award. in the mean time we will all have fun wasting our days in the offseason talking about football right?

I would absolutely love to see him back this up.

So far, the coaching rumor was bunk. We'll find out about the draft stuff come April, won't we?

BeefStew25
01-27-2009, 11:40 PM
What can it hurt? Blue Run, keep it up. It is either this or the jackass thread.

slim
01-27-2009, 11:41 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. If someone claims they have inside info, they can either prove it or get smacked around. That is the way the world works.

Post a link, or ****....just my opinion.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 11:43 PM
I was clearly mocking him. Please don't be confused. I know the line and chose to mock regardless. IMHO, this tool is laughing his ass off behind the scenes at a bunch of dudes who I have spoken with and tailgated with. That pisses me off. I disagree w/ G 100% on his one. Even if folks here pretend to be someone else, they don't appear to attach a bunch of crap with it. To me, this is clearly a farce and createdw/ ill intentions. So I mock...ad will likely continue to do so if he continues to spew.

DenBronx
01-27-2009, 11:43 PM
What can it hurt? Blue Run, keep it up. It is either this or the jackass thread.


I don't see what the big deal is. If someone claims they have inside info, they can either prove it or get smacked around. That is the way the world works.

Post a link, or ****....just my opinion.



stop trying to wave your dicks around guys.

BeefStew25
01-27-2009, 11:45 PM
stop trying to wave your dicks around guys.

I am a post op tranny. Soooo...my sterile ovaries.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:45 PM
I am a post op tranny. Soooo...my sterile ovaries.

:cringe:

DenBronx
01-27-2009, 11:46 PM
I am a post op tranny. Soooo...my sterile ovaries.

how cute, is that your photo in your avi?

red98
01-27-2009, 11:48 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. If someone claims they have inside info, they can either prove it or get smacked around. That is the way the world works.

Post a link, or ****....just my opinion.

Exactly. I remember last year a poster on the mane said he had inside info that Bates was about to be canned. He got alot of flak and posts mocking his supposed "inside info". That poster was Taco John and he was right.

No one got banned for doubting him.

TXBRONC
01-27-2009, 11:48 PM
One thing I can that Blue Run is right about is that Igor Olshansky believes that he is going be let go by the Chargers. I've been over to a Chargers message board and saw thread dedicated to this very thing. The person who started the thread did used a article from one of San Diego's local rags as a way leading off the discussion. If we are going to 3-4 base defense he has the right measurables for a defensive end in a 3-4.

Denver may not want San Diego to Moreno but there is not a thing they can do about it if they are serious about fixing the defense.

SBboundBRONCOS
01-27-2009, 11:49 PM
so far none of his post have any credibility. no link is a rumor. anyone can make up a rumor and get all fuzy inside when everyone goes boinkers about it. ZOINKS, ASAMGWA IZ A BRONKOS!!!!11! spags was only stating the obvious. anyone who followed the broncos already knew that spags was on our radar. it was reported that mcdaniels was the favorite days before blue run said it came down to those 2. in fact it DIDNT come down to mcdaniels and spags. it came down to mcdaniels and morris.

look we all enjoy rumors. but im not buying into it. i dont mind discussing absurd ideas of going after a kicker in round 1 but hey like i said earlier some things just dont sound right at all. thats just me. sorry if it makes someone want to surf another web site.

for the record. it wasnt me that sent blue a pm. blue if can somehow backup the rumors of igor, pettigrew, ect. then i say you get mad props for insider of the year award. in the mean time we will all have fun wasting our days in the offseason talking about football right?

do you have a link supporting your idea that anyone can post rumors

Blue Run
01-27-2009, 11:50 PM
It comes with the territory on such a medium. Nonetheless, it provides what I need it to and it is a unique way to exchange ideas when you need it presented in a certain way.

As for Moreno, his personal trainer at Parisi's is Joe Carini, an absolute madman. Ex-power lifter. This guy turned Tiki Barber from a 3rd down back with a fumbling problem to a legit MVP candidate. After Brian Westbrook saw what he did for Tiki, he also hired him.
Now, Moreno is with him. Look up Carini's workouts online - this stuff is intense. A lot of people think Tiki retired purely because of TC, but he simply couldn't go through with another offseason in this program. He said it made the Giants offseason program (and the grind of the regular season) a breeze.

But you can't argue with the results.
Everyone's very excited to see what it does for Knowshon, who is a good, hard-working local kid.

DenBronx
01-27-2009, 11:52 PM
do you have a link supporting your idea that anyone can post rumors

no, do you have a link asking me for a link about people posting links that have no links about the rumors?


WE, are all the ducks in the pond. :laugh:

Blue Run
01-27-2009, 11:53 PM
asking for links to this information - I am sorry and understand your frustration. Due to the sensitive nature of these reports I cannot disclose names - these are culled from private conversations.
I am not as computer savvy as some but how would you link to a private conversation?
Anything short of me providing my real name will not be sufficient - and I simply cannot do that.

I will cease posting if it continues to upset the board, that is not my intentions. And I will stop using it for my personal gain.

red98
01-27-2009, 11:54 PM
It comes with the territory on such a medium. Nonetheless, it provides what I need it to and it is a unique way to exchange ideas when you need it presented in a certain way.

As for Moreno, his personal trainer at Parisi's is Joe Carini, an absolute madman. Ex-power lifter. This guy turned Tiki Barber from a 3rd down back with a fumbling problem to a legit MVP candidate. After Brian Westbrook saw what he did for Tiki, he also hired him.
Now, Moreno is with him. Look up Carini's workouts online - this stuff is intense. A lot of people think Tiki retired purely because of TC, but he simply couldn't go through with another offseason in this program. He said it made the Giants offseason program (and the grind of the regular season) a breeze.

But you can't argue with the results.
Everyone's very excited to see what it does for Knowshon, who is a good, hard-working local kid.

Hey Blue does it really bother you if people doubt your credentials? I mean I can understand getting put off by nasty PM's, but does the general ribbing bug you?

(ok, now I am going to look up Carini)

slim
01-27-2009, 11:56 PM
Hey Blue does it really bother you if people doubt your credentials? I mean I can understand getting put off by nasty PM's, but does the general ribbing bug you?

(ok, now I am going to look up Carini)

And if it does...grow a pair.

MOtorboat
01-27-2009, 11:56 PM
asking for links to this information - I am sorry and understand your frustration. Due to the sensitive nature of these reports I cannot disclose names - these are culled from private conversations.
I am not as computer savvy as some but how would you link to a private conversation?
Anything short of me providing my real name will not be sufficient - and I simply cannot do that.

I will cease posting if it continues to upset the board, that is not my intentions. And I will stop using it for my personal gain.

Unfortunately, the logic doesn't seem to work.

What good does it do for someone associated with an agent to post on a random internet message board, which frankly isn't even associated with the team's site?

What good does it do? I'm in business. Others are business. We understand that it does little to no good.

If someone picked up any of these stories as a journalist, and I am one, they'd be laughed off the face of the blogosphere. So what benefit could posting on a random message board do?

TXBRONC
01-27-2009, 11:57 PM
asking for links to this information - I am sorry and understand your frustration. Due to the sensitive nature of these reports I cannot disclose names - these are culled from private conversations.
I am not as computer savvy as some but how would you link to a private conversation?
Anything short of me providing my real name will not be sufficient - and I simply cannot do that.

I will cease posting if it continues to upset the board, that is not my intentions. And I will stop using it for my personal gain.

What personal gain are you getting out of this? :confused:

slim
01-27-2009, 11:58 PM
Unfortunately, the logic doesn't seem to work.

What good does it do for someone associated with an agent to post on a random internet message board, which frankly isn't even associated with the team's site?

What good does it do? I'm in business. Others are business. We understand that it does little to no good.

If someone picked up any of these stories as a journalist, and I am one, they'd be laughed off the face of the blogosphere. So what benefit could posting on a random message board do?

Well, it could stroke your ego and make you feel important...just a thought.

MOtorboat
01-28-2009, 12:00 AM
Well, it could stroke your ego and make you feel important...just a thought.

I guess. But, frankly, if you're going to leak shit, an internet message board isn't the place to do it.

Maybe he's an underling who's trying to make his name in the biz by leaking some info.

If he is, I'm going to be frank, and tell him that this isn't the place to do it. If you want to throw some info out there about it, throw it the Coloradoan, or the Gazette out of Colorado Springs. Throw them a bone, and if its really true, you make a splash.

I work this business. I understand how this shit works. Internet message boards aren't where it is.

Lonestar
01-28-2009, 12:01 AM
asking for links to this information - I am sorry and understand your frustration. Due to the sensitive nature of these reports I cannot disclose names - these are culled from private conversations.
I am not as computer savvy as some but how would you link to a private conversation?
Anything short of me providing my real name will not be sufficient - and I simply cannot do that.

I will cease posting if it continues to upset the board, that is not my intentions. And I will stop using it for my personal gain.

if you have MHS or PM's that are threatening then a make sure you send them to Tned (ADMIN).. for that matter any of the other mods..

I for one like you posts and what they add to the forum.. Sorry if some of the members are less than thankful.. It is a tight nit group and sometimes not great to outsiders..

DenBronx
01-28-2009, 12:01 AM
asking for links to this information - I am sorry and understand your frustration. Due to the sensitive nature of these reports I cannot disclose names - these are culled from private conversations.
I am not as computer savvy as some but how would you link to a private conversation?
Anything short of me providing my real name will not be sufficient - and I simply cannot do that.

I will cease posting if it continues to upset the board, that is not my intentions. And I will stop using it for my personal gain.



what you say just doesnt add up thats all. i mean if they were "private conversations" then why did you go to all the broncos message boards and post it for the whole world to see? you actually posted the same thing on www.denverbroncos.com

SBboundBRONCOS
01-28-2009, 12:04 AM
no, do you have a link asking me for a link about people posting links that have no links about the rumors?


WE, are all the ducks in the pond. :laugh:

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32282&page=2

there is my link asking you about people posting links that have no links rumor :laugh:


i guess my point is if this guy really is out at the senior bowl or a scout or whatever he might be, why would he have a link. he is providing his insight, just because we are looking at one of the best TEs and RBs in the draft doesnt mean we are seriously looking at taking them because im sure over half the teams are seriously looking into a BUNCH of prospects including these 2 stars

but if worse comes to worse all our D prospects are gone no trade opportunity presents itself and there sits moreno who fills a pretty big need IMO i think we draft him instead of reaching for say a low 1st rounder. you have to know what your getting, nothing is guaranteed in the draft thus you consider all options when you are in a spot like us (not exactly prime position)

but again just because we are talking to these 2 stellar standouts at their respective postions doesnt mean we are looking at taking them before many other guys its just formality if something happens

people need to stop being so harsh on the guy, and just because he says he has this inside info does not make him open to criticism like you guys are giving him. if i said im a rocket scientist and posted like a rocket scientist and said something about how nasa is starting this big project would you call me out and make fun of me because you think the gov needs to spend its money differently in times like this . . .

sorry i guess i just dont see why because he says he works in the NFL and has some connections it makes the guy a liar, hes not acting like a troll nor a person seeing drastic attention hence he left mania and doesnt seem hesitant to leave here if people dont want to hear what he has to say

slim
01-28-2009, 12:05 AM
what you say just doesnt add up thats all. i mean if they were "private conversations" then why did you go to all the broncos message boards and post it for the whole world to see? you actually posted the same thing on www.denverbroncos.com

That is the hundred dollar question...I have 75 cents that says there is not a good answer.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 12:07 AM
if you have MHS or PM's that are threatening then a make sure you send them to Tned (ADMIN).. for that matter any of the other mods..

I for one like you posts and what they add to the forum.. Sorry if some of the members are less than thankful.. It is a tight nit group and sometimes not great to outsiders..


This has absolutely ZERO to do w/ being an outsider. The only dude I screw w/ is lex and that's only cuz he put me of ignore. It is all in good fun and humors me to bust his balls. This is something completely different. I would never go so far as to threaten anyone, or waste my time w/ a PM, but to trivialize our distaste for this dude as simply "not liking outsiders" is offensive in it's own right and doesn't really give us any credit for being able to form our own rational thoughts. I'm an all are welcome dude, young or old, white or black, straight or gay, man or woman, new poster or old head...unless I think you're intentions are shitty...then it's a big screw you.

slim
01-28-2009, 12:16 AM
This has absolutely ZERO to do w/ being an outsider. The only dude I screw w/ is lex and that's only cuz he put me of ignore. It is all in good fun and humors me to bust his balls. This is something completely different. I would never go so far as to threaten anyone, or waste my time w/ a PM, but to trivialize our distaste for this dude as simply "not liking outsiders" is offensive in it's own right and doesn't really give us any credit for being able to form our own rational thoughts. I'm an all are welcome dude, young or old, white or black, straight or gay, man or woman, new poster or old head...unless I think you're intentions are shitty...then it's a big screw you.

What he said...

C'mon JR, this has nothing to do with that fact he/she is a new poster.

Lonestar
01-28-2009, 12:25 AM
This has absolutely ZERO to do w/ being an outsider. The only dude I screw w/ is lex and that's only cuz he put me of ignore. It is all in good fun and humors me to bust his balls. This is something completely different. I would never go so far as to threaten anyone, or waste my time w/ a PM, but to trivialize our distaste for this dude as simply "not liking outsiders" is offensive in it's own right and doesn't really give us any credit for being able to form our own rational thoughts. I'm an all are welcome dude, young or old, white or black, straight or gay, man or woman, new poster or old head...unless I think you're intentions are shitty...then it's a big screw you.

we have many folks on here that would indeed do something like that, I have seen the PM's from folks that have been forwarded to me..or folks and the MHS Tned can see..

We all know that some "outsiders" have been run off from time to time..

I say if the guy wants to post and you do not like the post attack it and not him..

Mocking or bait folks are verboten..

If down the road he is proven to be a fake then all that has happened is the post count was run up..

He so far has not spammed the board and therefore IMHO welcome to join us in a civil manner.. just like Y'all are..

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 12:27 AM
we have many folks on here that would indeed do something like that, I have seen the PM's from folks that have been forwarded to me..or folks and the MHS Tned can see..

We all know that some "outsiders" have been run off from time to time..

I say if the guy wants to post and you do not like the post attack it and not him..

Mocking or bait folks are verboten..

If down the road he is proven to be a fake then all that has happened is the post count was run up..

He so far has not spammed the board and therefore IMHO welcome to join us in a civil manner.. just like Y'all are..

c'mon man. It's the ofseason. If we can't mockfolks, what the hell else are we supposed to do? :confused::laugh:

underrated29
01-28-2009, 12:28 AM
wtf guys. Whats wrong with you? Do you really think he is sitting on his computer at home laughing say ha ha ha, i got them to believe me. i am soooo cool.

F'ing stupid.


Blue- forget these guys man. We do appreciate what you bring- and aside from the few who have panties up their ass- we all like you here.

Guys- a couple things to consider here. What are his advantages?I am not saying these are them, but here are a few ex that come to my mind as to why......

Maybe he is an agent. Tned says players agents come to him all the time. Thats how we found out about WWIII signing autos- his agent sent tned a message..

maybe this guy is an agent, and agents use message boards to communicate with each other and teams.

He said Igor was in better shape etc. etc. Those are promotion words, not insight words. He is pimping that player. Maybe there is someone one here that needs to read that and say- oh ok igor is in better shape and wants out and wont accept a measly 8mil so you got to come at him higher than that........

Now thats a little far fetched, but use your heads.


Oh and what proof do you have that he is a liar, false poster? All i see are your opinions where is your proof.

I can tell you things about my job that no one on the outside will ever know until it is released publically- but they are conversations and things i over heard.


Yall need to chill or leave these threads.


Blue- Me, G and some other will always like to see you post, so if the nazies scare you out, just PM us the details- we dont mind.

MOtorboat
01-28-2009, 12:28 AM
He so far has not spammed the board

That, right there, can be seriously debated.

Lonestar
01-28-2009, 12:33 AM
c'mon man. It's the ofseason. If we can't mockfolks, what the hell else are we supposed to do? :confused::laugh:

play with your self.. I;m told that was a pastime on the old freak..s :laugh::laugh:

MOtorboat
01-28-2009, 12:33 AM
wtf guys. Whats wrong with you? Do you really think he is sitting on his computer at home laughing say ha ha ha, i got them to believe me. i am soooo cool.

F'ing stupid.


Blue- forget these guys man. We do appreciate what you bring- and aside from the few who have panties up their ass- we all like you here.

Guys- a couple things to consider here. What are his advantages?I am not saying these are them, but here are a few ex that come to my mind as to why......

Maybe he is an agent. Tned says players agents come to him all the time. Thats how we found out about WWIII signing autos- his agent sent tned a message..

maybe this guy is an agent, and agents use message boards to communicate with each other and teams.

He said Igor was in better shape etc. etc. Those are promotion words, not insight words. He is pimping that player. Maybe there is someone one here that needs to read that and say- oh ok igor is in better shape and wants out and wont accept a measly 8mil so you got to come at him higher than that........

Now thats a little far fetched, but use your heads.


Oh and what proof do you have that he is a liar, false poster? All i see are your opinions where is your proof.

I can tell you things about my job that no one on the outside will ever know until it is released publically- but they are conversations and things i over heard.


Yall need to chill or leave these threads.


Blue- Me, G and some other will always like to see you post, so if the nazies scare you out, just PM us the details- we dont mind.

Ask yourself, U, what an agent would get from posting on three/four random Denver Broncos web sites.

The answer, unfortunately, is nothing.

underrated29
01-28-2009, 12:33 AM
hey guys sorry- dont take what i said seriously. I need to get some sleep, or try to- im just messig things up. later.


i was serious though blue- i will always listen with an open mind, i look forward to more of your posts

Lonestar
01-28-2009, 12:37 AM
That, right there, can be seriously debated.

Blue Run
Member Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 38 Posts Per Day: 1.71

some do that in a day.. and most are not articulate like his are..

Y'all need to lighten up abit..

BeefStew25
01-28-2009, 12:38 AM
Mo, take a stand and fight this injustice.

slim
01-28-2009, 12:42 AM
Blue Run
Member Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 38 Posts Per Day: 1.71

some do that in a day.. and most are not articulate like his are..

Y'all need to lighten up abit..

JR telling MO to lighten up?

I miss Rod Serling

oobehr
01-28-2009, 01:23 AM
I hate how so many people on the internet spend more time argueing about how the post was made instead of what was in the post. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Seriously this guy comes in saying we might get Olshansky, a guy who accuses us of cheating and punches lineman in the back of the head when they false start, and all you guys can think about is this guy is a phony?

The first thing I thought coming in here was, Damn I hope not, I hate that guy, I hate it when we bring in players within the division who don't deserve a spot on our team.

But on the topic of Moreno. If he is still at 12 and raji and mauluga(spelling?) are gone I say why not. That guy is going to be phenomenal and if we don't have top 10 quality defensive talent at our pick why not just shoot for some good guys in the later picks. Running backs almost always prove their worth when they are drafted in the first round, but defence is not always as reliable. Sure a good NT or LB would be great and by no way am I saying we should go draft all offensive guys but if Moreno is available at 12 and all of our other prospects are gone I say we jump at moreno.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 01:29 AM
I hate how so many people on the internet spend more time argueing about how the post was made instead of what was in the post. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Seriously this guy comes in saying we might get Olshansky, a guy who accuses us of cheating and punches lineman in the back of the head when they false start, and all you guys can think about is this guy is a phony?

The first thing I thought coming in here was, Damn I hope not, I hate that guy, I hate it when we bring in players within the division who don't deserve a spot on our team.

But on the topic of Moreno. If he is still at 12 and raji and mauluga(spelling?) are gone I say why not. That guy is going to be phenomenal and if we don't have top 10 quality defensive talent at our pick why not just shoot for some good guys in the later picks. Running backs almost always prove their worth when they are drafted in the first round, but defence is not always as reliable. Sure a good NT or LB would be great and by no way am I saying we should go draft all offensive guys but if Moreno is available at 12 and all of our other prospects are gone I say we jump at moreno.

If all our top defensive guys are off the board I would like to see us trade back, get a few more picks and grab the next level of defensive talent on our board... If we can't find a trade partner, I would rather us take Moreno or another high level offensive talent then have us reach on a defensive guy...

DenBronx
01-28-2009, 01:33 AM
I hate how so many people on the internet spend more time argueing about how the post was made instead of what was in the post. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Seriously this guy comes in saying we might get Olshansky, a guy who accuses us of cheating and punches lineman in the back of the head when they false start, and all you guys can think about is this guy is a phony?

The first thing I thought coming in here was, Damn I hope not, I hate that guy, I hate it when we bring in players within the division who don't deserve a spot on our team.

But on the topic of Moreno. If he is still at 12 and raji and mauluga(spelling?) are gone I say why not. That guy is going to be phenomenal and if we don't have top 10 quality defensive talent at our pick why not just shoot for some good guys in the later picks. Running backs almost always prove their worth when they are drafted in the first round, but defence is not always as reliable. Sure a good NT or LB would be great and by no way am I saying we should go draft all offensive guys but if Moreno is available at 12 and all of our other prospects are gone I say we jump at moreno.



hey it's blue runs second account! why was your very first post trying to defend blue run? in fact your still trying to defend him and you have what 6 total post? hmmmmm

not buying it.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 01:43 AM
hey it's blue runs second account! why was your very first post trying to defend blue run? in fact your still trying to defend him and you have what 6 total post? hmmmmm

not buying it.

LMAO...

Man everyone is on edge around here :laugh:

His first post wasn't defending Blue Run, it talked about trade options brought on by something Blue Run had said, except he hadn't actually said that.. He being Blue Run of course... :confused: yet :laugh:

Mat'hir Uth Gan
01-28-2009, 02:57 AM
Hi folks, just popped in for a moment to see what all the fuss was about.

There has been an influx of "inside" Bronco fans that have recently signed up (within a month or so) on several of the Bronco fan sites suggesting they have inside information. Apparently, it's a contest originating from the Orange Mane. At least, that's the rumor.

Blue Run's writing style reminds me of the guy who does the training camp reports on the Mane. Not Khan, but the other one, SoCal or whatever.

Regardless, folks with "inside" information are not going to get on relatively unknown team message boards and risk their jobs, sources, or revealing information that is possibly detrimental to an NFL team. It's especially unlikely that several such types would do this within the same timeframe, after years of never having any. And, the fact there is supposably a contest based on this very thing identifies the motive as to why it's happening now, and in spades.

As to the "enjoyment" factor of these threads. I disagree. Over at Broncomania we've identified and discussed each of these "targets" in length, and we did it months ago. David Bruton is a complete Safety, a team leader, and someone that will excel at the Combine. With one Safety signed to our roster, it doesn't take rocket science to suggest Denver is interested in a guy that should sky-rocket in value soon. I'm surprised Blue Run hasn't mentioned Micheal Hamlin yet. I'm sure he'll probably be the next "surprise" prospect...

In the end, you guys do what you enjoy on these forums. To me, I don't think you need some guy playing in a contest to raise awareness as to particular prospects or Free Agent targets. Especially when they are so blatantly obvious. I'm sure there are knowledgeable posters here that could discuss these players without hiding behind a veil and mocking the integrity of a fan message board.

IMO, Bronco message boards should be a place where fans come to bounce ideas and celebrate/criticize their team. It should never be a place to try and make your fellow Bronco fans look ridiculous for private amusement. And once it's obvious that is the poster's aim, I think it's just as ridiculous to continue to reply due to the principle of the matter. And that principle should be that every poster has enough self-respect to avoid partaking in an obvious jibe at their own expense.

That's just my two cents.

Bozo Jr.
01-28-2009, 03:39 AM
False or not. This is all very entertaining. Hahahaha!

JKcatch724
01-28-2009, 04:35 AM
Ask yourself, U, what an agent would get from posting on three/four random Denver Broncos web sites.

The answer, unfortunately, is nothing.

What do you get for discounting him on an internet forum?

The answer, unfortunately, is nothing.

PatricktheDookie
01-28-2009, 04:45 AM
This thread makes me want to go back to Broncomania.

Please don't make me want to go back to Broncomania. =(

There's lots of theories about blue. Maybe he's an insider, maybe he's a nobody, or maybe he's an agent trying to publicize his clients. Regardless, he does have information that is interesting and entertaining. And thus, I openly welcome him and anyone else who chooses to waste their time for my benefit.

anton...
01-28-2009, 05:02 AM
is thread even about football anymore??

what happened to this once friendly forum that i exiled to when it all began??

this was supposed to be a bit of a utopia from all the crap on mania, and now there is as much crap here as there is there...

who gives a crap?

if you dont believe blue, dont respond, he owes you nothing, he asks for nothing, he is posting away and its not hurting you so let it go...

truth or not, im taking it with a grain of salt BECAUSE THERE IS NO LINK!, if there was a link i would take it seriously, but this is better than no news at all...

i enjoy thinking about things...

and you guys arent helping...

SR
01-28-2009, 05:04 AM
I honestly don't care if Blue Run is an insider or not. None of his "inside" information interests me or really is that believable or likable. If he wants to call himself an "insider", let him. If he is, he is, and if he's not, he's not. People lie on the internet all the time. Maybe Blue Run is lying, maybe he is not. To me, it doesn't matter. I read his stuff and I have my own opinions on him, but we've all got our own opinions about everyone here. Let him post and quit being such dicks to him.

SR
01-28-2009, 05:05 AM
is thread even about football anymore??

what happened to this once friendly forum that i exiled to when it all began??

this was supposed to be a bit of a utopia from all the crap on mania, and now there is as much crap here as there is there...

who gives a crap?

if you dont believe blue, dont respond, he owes you nothing, he asks for nothing, he is posting away and its not hurting you so let it go...

truth or not, im taking it with a grain of salt BECAUSE THERE IS NO LINK!, if there was a link i would take it seriously, but this is better than no news at all...

i enjoy thinking about things...

and you guys arent helping...

I miss my little Aussie buddy.

anton...
01-28-2009, 05:08 AM
I miss my little Aussie buddy.

how you doing sexy pants??

staying clean?

WARHORSE
01-28-2009, 05:29 AM
The Broncos love Moreno and realize they need an impact player at the position. The fact that they know the Bolts will jump at him - and then have to face him twice a year - is just complicating the situation.


Complicating the situation is me havin to wear the hip huggin boots to wade around here.:tsk:

WARHORSE
01-28-2009, 05:40 AM
Fellas...

If all of you get to wave your dicks around this board with impunity and spout off whatever pops into your head and we all have to be polite and treat you like you know what the hell you're talking about, then Blue Run can wave his dick around too.

Being here longer doesn't mean any of our ideas are better. I don't care if you don't like him or you think he's a 400 pound inbred radiologist from Opelika, just talk about the ideas.

Jr hates Shanahan, lex hates McDaniels, Nature Boy hates the universe, MB cusses out everyone when he's drunk...

We're all weirdos who spout off about shit we care about but are not on the inside of.

I come here to talk about the Broncos, or maybe find out what weird shit Clay is posting about in The Lounge.

I've been to plenty of other boards where the way to silence the opposition is to ridicule them until they get annoyed and leave. And then the number of people in the sandbox is smaller, and the sides of arguments become carved in stone, and you get to pick your side - God help you if you're on the other side.

The day this board gets like that, I'm outta here.

And you should be too, because it's not the sort of place that welcomes viewpoints from outside the box and your experience will be the lesser for it.

This is a place to talk about football. Blue Run is talking about football. If you think it's silly to draft a TE in the first, then let's debate it.

Running off the guy who started the debate because you don't think he is who he says he is happens to be childish. Nobody knows who anybody is on the internet. I could be an anorexic hooker from 11 mile - none of you have met me.

If he said, "I wonder if the Broncos would take a long look at Moreno in the first. Wells could be gone and we need a back desperately, and it would keep him out of SD's hands too..." would you talk about it?

If so, then talk about it when he posts that as "insider info." There are posters who post with English being their 3rd or 4th language. Makes it hard to understand all the time, but I don't exclude them from the conversation because I don't like the WAY they made their post.

It's a long offseason, dammit, and I intend to spend it talking about the Broncos. If 53 people want to lurk on the boards and the only guy adding ideas is Blue Run, then I'm gonna talk about whatever silly idea pops into his head to post.

If you run him off, then one of you had better start posting some better, more conversation-worthy ideas in his place. Got it?

~G

Got what?

Thread police?

There is football discussion and there is fantasy hogwash. Its one thing to think that the Broncos should have an interest in a certain player, and its another to say your sources or your talks with scouts are confirming said info.

Frankly, I dont share the indifference to someone coming in here claiming those statements, and will respond accordingly.

I love the Broncos and want as much info as I can get on them. Its sick enough wading through the MEDIA releases in finding out whats true and whats rumor. You dont need to come in here and try to pull my shorts down from behind in order to discuss football.

What everyone in here is doing is the EXACT same thing Blue Run is doing. If Blue Run can come in and make crap up in here, how the heck is someone supposed to know when theres and HONEST shred of info on the board??

I aint saying he cant post here, but if youre in here making crap up, which he is, then youre going to have to face the nation.

Simple as that.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 05:55 AM
Got what?

Thread police?

There is football discussion and there is fantasy hogwash. Its one thing to think that the Broncos should have an interest in a certain player, and its another to say your sources or your talks with scouts are confirming said info.

Frankly, I dont share the indifference to someone coming in here claiming those statements, and will respond accordingly.

I love the Broncos and want as much info as I can get on them. Its sick enough wading through the MEDIA releases in finding out whats true and whats rumor. You dont need to come in here and try to pull my shorts down from behind in order to discuss football.

What everyone in here is doing is the EXACT same thing Blue Run is doing. If Blue Run can come in and make crap up in here, how the heck is someone supposed to know when theres and HONEST shred of info on the board??

I aint saying he cant post here, but if youre in here making crap up, which he is, then youre going to have to face the nation.

Simple as that.

I am going to assume you can't prove any of that or you would have already done so...

Time will tell if what he is saying is the truth or not... If you guys keep it up, it wont matter because he will leave the board as he did the others.

At that point, even if what he says is true, it wont matter, he will already be gone.. All we're asking the extrema skeptics to do is let it run it's course before you badger him into leaving the board.

SR
01-28-2009, 05:57 AM
how you doing sexy pants??

staying clean?

Trying my best. Shoot me a pm and fill me on on your latest happenings.

WARHORSE
01-28-2009, 06:02 AM
I am going to assume you can't prove any of that or you would have already done so...

Time will tell if what he is saying is the truth or not... If you guys keep it up, it wont matter because he will leave the board as he did the others.

At that point, even if what he says is true, it wont matter, he will already be gone.. All we're asking the extrema skeptics to do is let it run it's course before you badger him into leaving the board.


Im not trying to run anyone off the board, and Im not a skeptic.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, even him.

For me? There is no 'time will tell'.

Hes already said enough.

And as for proving him wrong, I suggest logic. :coffee:

Northman
01-28-2009, 06:19 AM
Fellas...

If all of you get to wave your dicks around this board with impunity and spout off whatever pops into your head and we all have to be polite and treat you like you know what the hell you're talking about, then Blue Run can wave his dick around too.

Being here longer doesn't mean any of our ideas are better. I don't care if you don't like him or you think he's a 400 pound inbred radiologist from Opelika, just talk about the ideas.

Jr hates Shanahan, lex hates McDaniels, Nature Boy hates the universe, MB cusses out everyone when he's drunk...

We're all weirdos who spout off about shit we care about but are not on the inside of.

I come here to talk about the Broncos, or maybe find out what weird shit Clay is posting about in The Lounge.

I've been to plenty of other boards where the way to silence the opposition is to ridicule them until they get annoyed and leave. And then the number of people in the sandbox is smaller, and the sides of arguments become carved in stone, and you get to pick your side - God help you if you're on the other side.

The day this board gets like that, I'm outta here.

And you should be too, because it's not the sort of place that welcomes viewpoints from outside the box and your experience will be the lesser for it.

This is a place to talk about football. Blue Run is talking about football. If you think it's silly to draft a TE in the first, then let's debate it.

Running off the guy who started the debate because you don't think he is who he says he is happens to be childish. Nobody knows who anybody is on the internet. I could be an anorexic hooker from 11 mile - none of you have met me.

If he said, "I wonder if the Broncos would take a long look at Moreno in the first. Wells could be gone and we need a back desperately, and it would keep him out of SD's hands too..." would you talk about it?

If so, then talk about it when he posts that as "insider info." There are posters who post with English being their 3rd or 4th language. Makes it hard to understand all the time, but I don't exclude them from the conversation because I don't like the WAY they made their post.

It's a long offseason, dammit, and I intend to spend it talking about the Broncos. If 53 people want to lurk on the boards and the only guy adding ideas is Blue Run, then I'm gonna talk about whatever silly idea pops into his head to post.

If you run him off, then one of you had better start posting some better, more conversation-worthy ideas in his place. Got it?

~G


Wonderful post G but i do have a problem with your philosphy. For starters, Blue is a fan of another team entirely so quite frankly, i really dont care if he cant take a ribbing on this board for his ideas and decides to run off because he cant handle it. I have no problem with him personally, but its not going to stop me from saying my peace when i think his ideas or sources are out of their mind. For what its worth, i didnt even give him that much of a hard time about it. And even if the others did i think its funny because the idea in itself is funny. But this is a Bronco board, not a Giants board so im not going to cater to him or any other rival fan for that matter. He's entitled to his opinions or ideas but he should also expect to get laughed at if his opinions and ideas come off as ludicrous. He is hardly the only one in that category as there are plenty of Bronco fans who do the same thing daily. Blue is no special case here. So please, get off the soap box already. He doesnt get treated any different than any other member on this board. :tsk:

Northman
01-28-2009, 06:22 AM
No, he does not deserve the resulting crap regardless of who he is. Attacking the poster is against the rules. Skepticism is not. Keep it in the right category.

He isnt being attacked. Good grief.

Northman
01-28-2009, 06:29 AM
asking for links to this information - I am sorry and understand your frustration. Due to the sensitive nature of these reports I cannot disclose names - these are culled from private conversations.
I am not as computer savvy as some but how would you link to a private conversation?
Anything short of me providing my real name will not be sufficient - and I simply cannot do that.

I will cease posting if it continues to upset the board, that is not my intentions. And I will stop using it for my personal gain.


Your not upsetting anyone. But just like everyone else on this board you will be challenged on some of the things you say.

Nomad
01-28-2009, 07:21 AM
Igor wont come to Denver unless they unload the bank which wont happen. Igor hates (and i mean HATES) the Denver Broncos. Especially the Olineman who he continuelly criticizes in public for being cheap artists.

I stopped reading here! Igor does hate Denver and he'd go with the Raiders before he'd come here!

PatricktheDookie
01-28-2009, 07:33 AM
Why would you stop reading at a comment you seemingly agree with?

Nomad
01-28-2009, 07:38 AM
Why would you stop reading at a comment you seemingly agree with?

You answered your question and I gave my reason. Does it bother you??:whoknows:

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 09:08 AM
My sources tell me that the Broncos will draft a defensive player sometime in April.

omac
01-28-2009, 09:16 AM
Why is this thread called "ducks on the pond"?

Is it like shooting ducks on the pond?

Maybe we are too nice sometimes, but I'd take that over treating posters like crap, as is done on many other boards.

Northman
01-28-2009, 09:19 AM
My sources tell me that the Broncos will draft a defensive player sometime in April.

Why you got to poke fun? This is serious business.

PatricktheDookie
01-28-2009, 09:31 AM
You answered your question and I gave my reason. Does it bother you??:whoknows:

I just don't get it. The way I'm used to it, I continue reading what I enjoy. It's when I don't agree that I chose to ignore something.

I hope I'm not trapped in the bizarro world again. Superman warned me next time I'm on my own. =(

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 09:33 AM
Why you got to poke fun? This is serious business.

I was being serious...at least serious enough for this thread

broncofaninfla
01-28-2009, 09:47 AM
Regardless of what capacity Blue Run holds, what his intrests are what his motivation is his posts are very intresting, insightful and keep the offseason entertaining. I just read every post on this thread and 90% of it is bla bla bla hate rhetoric. If you don't like the guy, ignore his posts, don't attack him or clog up threads, ignore him. I for one DO enjoy his posts and would like to see more. I also enjoy most of the members here posts unless they are attacking people. I don't understand the hate.

Scarface
01-28-2009, 09:51 AM
I'd take Moreno, but only if Maulauga is gone.

If Moreno is the top guy on our draft board when our pick is due then sure why not? Should we pass on a guy we have ranked higher at RB to reach on a lower rated defensive player? Especially if the top defensive guys we we're targeting are already gone? Hillis and Moreno would make a pretty lethal combo at RB and we wouldn't need Cutler to throw the ball 600+ times again next year. Defenses might actually have to start guessing what we're going to do again. Of course I'd prefer to build up our D but if the draft plays out a certain way I would not be mad to end up with a stud RB in RD1.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 10:03 AM
My sources tell me that the Broncos will draft a defensive player sometime in April.

Carful Coach. That's mocking. And that's not allowed. That's bvasically how this whole thing blew. Some, myself included, ripped off a couple of those, and BAM. Mods didn't like it so there it went. fun, huh?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 10:04 AM
If Moreno is the top guy on our draft board when our pick is due then sure why not? Should we pass on a guy we have ranked higher at RB to reach on a lower rated defensive player? Especially if the top defensive guys we we're targeting are already gone? Hillis and Moreno would make a pretty lethal combo at RB and we wouldn't need Cutler to throw the ball 600+ times again next year. Defenses might actually have to start guessing what we're going to do again. Of course I'd prefer to build up our D but if the draft plays out a certain way I would not be mad to end up with a stud RB in RD1.

What's w/ the dude trying to stay on topic??? :laugh:

JONtheBRONCO
01-28-2009, 10:40 AM
The only difference is that I don't claim to be an "insider."

I know I'm not. I post my ideas. I don't post false truths.

And you don't know if he is either, you just assume. Stop being a jackass.

Zweems56
01-28-2009, 11:16 AM
http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost/data/500/4455normal_Internet-SeriousBusiness.jpg

Cugel
01-28-2009, 11:18 AM
It comes with the territory on such a medium. Nonetheless, it provides what I need it to and it is a unique way to exchange ideas when you need it presented in a certain way.

As for Moreno, his personal trainer at Parisi's is Joe Carini, an absolute madman. Ex-power lifter. This guy turned Tiki Barber from a 3rd down back with a fumbling problem to a legit MVP candidate. After Brian Westbrook saw what he did for Tiki, he also hired him.
Now, Moreno is with him. Look up Carini's workouts online - this stuff is intense. A lot of people think Tiki retired purely because of TC, but he simply couldn't go through with another offseason in this program. He said it made the Giants offseason program (and the grind of the regular season) a breeze.

But you can't argue with the results.
Everyone's very excited to see what it does for Knowshon, who is a good, hard-working local kid.

What difference does this make?

Seriously! IF the Broncos are going to a 3-4 they desperately NEED DEFENSE.

It would be criminal not to draft BJ Raji if he's available. You NEED an elite NT if you can get one. We all know that NT is the ONE absolutely essential ingredient that you CANNOT do without.

The Chargers have Jamal Williams, the Steelers have Casey Hampton, the Patriots have Vince Wilfork, and the Ravens have Haloti Ngata. You all saw what Ngata did in the AFC Championship game.

That's what this team needs. Period. They will also need a veteran FA because NO rookie NT will be ready day 1.

As for Olshansky if they seriously want him, then $8 million guaranteed won't remotely cut it. It won't be enough to sign any starting DE who's 28 years old or younger and has any real promise at all. So, either the rumor that the Broncos want Olshansky is wrong (my opinion), or else the number is wrong, or else Goodman is dumber than a rock. Take your pick.

Now, there's not one damn thing the Broncos can do to PREVENT another team from finding a good RB. That's just insane as a motivation, drafting someone so the Chargers won't.

Who knows whether some other RB won't end up being better? Because you just can't tell.

Wouldn't it be really dumb if the Broncos grabbed Moreno (bypassing their desperate howling need on defense) and then Chris Wells ended up having the better career?

If Raji isn't available (good bet) then the Broncos need to draft the SECOND biggest need on the team -- and that's ILB or DE. Rey Maualugua or James Laurinaitis. A pass-rushing DE wouldn't be horrible either.

Frankly, the Broncos cannot afford to pass on the best defensive player on the board when they draft.

Unless all the best defensive prospects are all off the board and Moreno is the ONLY talent left at that spot then you DON'T draft him.

LET the Chargers have him, because they will either get him or Chris Wells, and in either case that's a talented back. So Denver is going to have to face the Chargers with a talented RB twice a year. Period. And you don't KNOW in advance that Moreno is going to be the next L.T. any more than you know that Raji is going to be the next Haloti Ngata.

But, you DO know that starting RBs are a LOT easier to draft than elite NTs.

And you know that Denver needs about 7 or 8 new starters on defense. And if you need that many, you can't get them all through FA, so finding an immediate impact player or two on DEFENSE via the draft is essential for building the future of this team.

The Chargers have Shawne Merriman, Luis Castillo, and Jamal Williams on defense. Who do the Broncos have? Champ Bailey? That's not remotely enough!

A RB in the first round is just NOT a serious consideration if there are any other options, unless Jim Goodman has simply lost his mind. :coffee:

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 11:36 AM
But some would say that th D is so far from being good, that getting the RB is the best idea cuz it is the final piece to make the O unstoppable and takes pressure off the young QB and WRs. UNTIL we get the defenive roster replaced, why not try and be the Bengals or Colts for a season or 2?

Zweems56
01-28-2009, 11:41 AM
But some would say that th D is so far from being good, that getting the RB is the best idea cuz it is the final piece to make the O unstoppable and takes pressure off the young QB and WRs. UNTIL we get the defenive roster replaced, why not try and be the Bengals or Colts for a season or 2?

Excellent. Sign me up to be a bengal.

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 11:41 AM
Carful Coach. That's mocking. And that's not allowed. That's bvasically how this whole thing blew. Some, myself included, ripped off a couple of those, and BAM. Mods didn't like it so there it went. fun, huh?

No offense and not targeted towards anyone, but if a mod wants to assume any negativity in my comment and "have a talk" with me about it...they can simply kiss my a$$.

The only point I was trying to drive was that it's easy to make a very vague comment and have discussion on it. It wasnt a knock on Blue...just a diversion from what some people considered to be an open comment by him.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 11:51 AM
Excellent. Sign me up to be a bengal.

They've made it to the playoffs as much as we have the past few years.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Excellent. Sign me up to be a bengal.

At the same time, it is only 1 draft pick. Why not complete the O and spend the rest of the picks and FA on the D? In our division, the stellar O can get us into the playoffs...if it limits the mistakes and bcomes less predictable.

Zweems56
01-28-2009, 11:55 AM
They've made it to the playoffs as much as we have the past few years.

Aren't we aiming for improvement?

Zweems56
01-28-2009, 11:57 AM
At the same time, it is only 1 draft pick. Why not complete the O and spend the rest of the picks and FA on the D? In our division, the stellar O can get us into the playoffs...if it limits the mistakes and bcomes less predictable.

I dotn think that predictable draft picks should be anywhere near the top of our list of things to worry about.

CoachChaz
01-28-2009, 12:00 PM
I dotn think that predictable draft picks should be anywhere near the top of our list of things to worry about.

I think he was saying that another offensive weapon could make the offense less predictable

Zweems56
01-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I think he was saying that another offensive weapon could make the offense less predictable

Meh. So could shonn Greene. Or a legit speedster to split time with hillis. I would hardly say that burning a 1st on a RB is in the best interest of the team.

Zweems56
01-28-2009, 12:17 PM
My apologies by the way, I read that selectively and missed the part where "less predictable" was associated with the offensive unit.

underrated29
01-28-2009, 12:19 PM
where is dream in all of this? He should be in these threads he loves this stuff.

Maybe he is in on it since he is part of the mane.

NightTrainLayne
01-28-2009, 12:21 PM
where is dream in all of this? He should be in these threads he loves this stuff.

Maybe he is in on it since he is part of the mane.

He's on vacation.

Blue Run
01-28-2009, 12:22 PM
The skepticism I receive comes with the territory, I have the requisite thick skin for it. The ribbing won't cause my departure, but when I stir negativity and turn fellow Broncos fans against each other, I have missed the mark. My presence here is very simple, if we can keep things civilized and discuss football productively, as adults, it is a good thing. If things deteriorate, or there is simply no interest (as was the case at the other board I posted to, which still served its purpose) then I simply go. There are never hard feelings.

In regards to the draft - you do not draft for need. You simply can not operate that way. Every single GM will tell you the same thing - rookies, no matter #1 overall or "Mr. Irrelevant" should never be relied upon to make an immediate impact. The leap from amateur to pro is too steep.

Immediate, glaring needs - should they arise - are best dealt with in free agency. By the time late April comes around, a pro GM should have his roster pretty much where he wants it. If not, the team is in trouble personnel-wise.

The draft is simple - get the best players you possibly can. You are looking for impact in round 1, and solid contributors on down. With good teams, the draft is never about this year. The draft is about 2 years down the road.

This is all self-evident but drafting for need is the quickest way to dive into mediocrity.

McD knows this, coming from NE. He doesn't want to have a good season now and then. He wants to build a dynasty and be the premier team in the NFL. You do that by finding the best players. That's why when I hear the Broncos are looking hard at Pettigrew it makes sense - yes, Graham and Scheffler have their strongpoints. But Pettigrew is looking like a perennial Pro Bowler, as is Mr. Moreno.

underrated29
01-28-2009, 12:25 PM
What do you think about Jon stewart- who came out last year. Do any evaluating on him.

DenBronx
01-28-2009, 12:31 PM
This is all self-evident but drafting for need is the quickest way to dive into mediocrity.


wow, seriously? no it's not. i understand what your saying long term but your incorrect when you say drafting for need will make you fail. when teams like pitt need a qb they get a rothlisberger through the draft, when denver needs a lt the get a clady through the draft, when the bears need a rb the get a forte through the draft. ect. they want an immediate impact player usually in the 1st round. thats football 101. if you want a development player or a guy to ride the bench (unless his name is aaron rogers) then you search later in the draft. you dont toss around your first rounder like its cotton candy at the turlock fair.

Blue Run
01-28-2009, 12:35 PM
I do not generally form my own opinions about prospects. I rely on information I gather from people who look much more closely than I do.

I can tell you that a number of teams had Stewart (and Mendenhall) rated higher than McFadden. At least one team that does an excellent job with the draft had McFadden as a "2nd row" guy because of character concerns and an upright running style that was not conducive to b/w the tackles stuff. His argument was clear - a 1st round RB needs to be a 5 Star RB to go in round 1 - run inside, run outside, break the big play, catch and block. In his opinion, McFadden only covered 2 of the 5, and had character concerns to boot.

He had Stewart as a 5 Star RB with no character concerns, but a slight medical concern.

red98
01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
The skepticism I receive comes with the territory, I have the requisite thick skin for it. The ribbing won't cause my departure, but when I stir negativity and turn fellow Broncos fans against each other, I have missed the mark. My presence here is very simple, if we can keep things civilized and discuss football productively, as adults, it is a good thing. If things deteriorate, or there is simply no interest (as was the case at the other board I posted to, which still served its purpose) then I simply go. There are never hard feelings.

In regards to the draft - you do not draft for need. You simply can not operate that way. Every single GM will tell you the same thing - rookies, no matter #1 overall or "Mr. Irrelevant" should never be relied upon to make an immediate impact. The leap from amateur to pro is too steep.

Immediate, glaring needs - should they arise - are best dealt with in free agency. By the time late April comes around, a pro GM should have his roster pretty much where he wants it. If not, the team is in trouble personnel-wise.

The draft is simple - get the best players you possibly can. You are looking for impact in round 1, and solid contributors on down. With good teams, the draft is never about this year. The draft is about 2 years down the road.

This is all self-evident but drafting for need is the quickest way to dive into mediocrity.

McD knows this, coming from NE. He doesn't want to have a good season now and then. He wants to build a dynasty and be the premier team in the NFL. You do that by finding the best players. That's why when I hear the Broncos are looking hard at Pettigrew it makes sense - yes, Graham and Scheffler have their strongpoints. But Pettigrew is looking like a perennial Pro Bowler, as is Mr. Moreno.

McD hasn't made much use of the TE in the passing game in the past. If the D guys they want aren't there at 12 and the Broncos take Moreno I wouldn't be upset.

broncofaninfla
01-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Blue, in your opinion. What are the stronger postions in this years draft? To me it looks like this is a good year it is a good year to draft players who's skill set is better suited for the 3/4 defense.
Also, do you think there will be any surprise cuts from any of the teams before March?

underrated29
01-28-2009, 12:42 PM
I do not generally form my own opinions about prospects. I rely on information I gather from people who look much more closely than I do.

I can tell you that a number of teams had Stewart (and Mendenhall) rated higher than McFadden. At least one team that does an excellent job with the draft had McFadden as a "2nd row" guy because of character concerns and an upright running style that was not conducive to b/w the tackles stuff. His argument was clear - a 1st round RB needs to be a 5 Star RB to go in round 1 - run inside, run outside, break the big play, catch and block. In his opinion, McFadden only covered 2 of the 5, and had character concerns to boot.

He had Stewart as a 5 Star RB with no character concerns, but a slight medical concern.


Thanks Blue- but we are all broncos fans here- you can stop adressing us as broncos fan underrated29. U29 will do fine.

Ziggy
01-28-2009, 12:46 PM
But some would say that th D is so far from being good, that getting the RB is the best idea cuz it is the final piece to make the O unstoppable and takes pressure off the young QB and WRs. UNTIL we get the defenive roster replaced, why not try and be the Bengals or Colts for a season or 2?

It's a valid argument Smilin, but the Bengals haven't won anything with thier all-offensive team. The Colts had some cat named Manning, and although thier defense was pitiful, they were much better than the Broncos D. The Colts had a safety that some consider the best in the NFL(defensive player of the year in 2007), another safety that was a pro bowler, a LB that has been in the pro bowl, and 2 top pass rushing defensive ends. They were also 7th in the league in takeaway/giveaway differential. If you add a RB to this team, we are nowhere near as talented as the 2006 Colts team.

If we have a RB that is rated a 9.0 on our board that drops to the 12th pick, and the best defensive player at that spot is rated a 7 on our board, then yes, we should take the RB. If we have a defensive player that is rated an 8.7 though, at a position of need, we need to jump at that defensive player.

Blue Run
01-28-2009, 12:51 PM
It's a great time to need an OG or OC in the draft - there are players with early starting grades from a number of teams into the 4th round.
The same can be said of RBs - several solid players throughout, although that is true of most years.
WR and DE lack pop at the top but there are considered to be several decent options for "roster players" at those positions.

However, I'm hearing matter-of-factly this is the weakest draft in recent memory. Not a lot of pop and not a lot of depth at key positions.

Looking for some big suprise cuts? I've got a few you'll have to bare with me until after the Super Bowl on that front.

claymore
01-28-2009, 12:53 PM
It's a great time to need an OG or OC in the draft - there are players with early starting grades from a number of teams into the 4th round.
The same can be said of RBs - several solid players throughout, although that is true of most years.
WR and DE lack pop at the top but there are considered to be several decent options for "roster players" at those positions.

However, I'm hearing matter-of-factly this is the weakest draft in recent memory. Not a lot of pop and not a lot of depth at key positions.

Looking for some big suprise cuts? I've got a few you'll have to bare with me until after the Super Bowl on that front.

PM me, I wont say a word.

Ziggy
01-28-2009, 12:54 PM
The Steelers drafting Mendenhall last year was good example of drafting the BPA and not drafting for need. Thier FO stated as much. They said Mendenhall was just too good to pass up and when he dropped to thier spot. I think good teams balance drafting the BPA and filling positions of need. If the Pats had Mayo as thier #1 player in the first round last year, I doubt they would have traded down to get him later. He did fill a position of need for them though. They also reached for Chad Jackson the year he came out, because he was thier #1 need.

Northman
01-28-2009, 12:56 PM
I do not generally form my own opinions about prospects. I rely on information I gather from people who look much more closely than I do.

I can tell you that a number of teams had Stewart (and Mendenhall) rated higher than McFadden. At least one team that does an excellent job with the draft had McFadden as a "2nd row" guy because of character concerns and an upright running style that was not conducive to b/w the tackles stuff. His argument was clear - a 1st round RB needs to be a 5 Star RB to go in round 1 - run inside, run outside, break the big play, catch and block. In his opinion, McFadden only covered 2 of the 5, and had character concerns to boot.

He had Stewart as a 5 Star RB with no character concerns, but a slight medical concern.


Now thats information i totally agree with.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 01:01 PM
I agree about 80% w/ best player available scenario. But there is that 10% that says tht if we have Clady and Cutty, and the next 2 highest rated guys are Sanchez and Oher, we go a dfferent direction. No concept is 100% concrete...be it BPA or drafting for immediate need.

Northman
01-28-2009, 01:02 PM
I agree about 80% w/ best player available scenario. But there is that 10% that says tht if we have Clady and Cutty, and the next 2 highest rated guys are Sanchez and Oher, we go a dfferent direction. No concept is 100% concrete...be it BPA or drafting for immediate need.

Definitely agree with that too.

broncofaninfla
01-28-2009, 01:03 PM
I remember our posistion of need draft mistake, Marcus Nash, Shanny even admitted that mistake was focusing on a postion of need. BUT with that being said I'm still hoping we go heavy on the defense right now as we have some major holes to fill.

Northman
01-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Be quiet BFan. Nash was the best receiver eva!




*snicker*

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 01:08 PM
be quiet bfan. Nash was the best receiver eva!




*snicker*

rocky top bitches!!!

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 04:42 PM
What difference does this make?

Seriously! IF the Broncos are going to a 3-4 they desperately NEED DEFENSE.

It would be criminal not to draft BJ Raji if he's available. You NEED an elite NT if you can get one. We all know that NT is the ONE absolutely essential ingredient that you CANNOT do without.

The Chargers have Jamal Williams, the Steelers have Casey Hampton, the Patriots have Vince Wilfork, and the Ravens have Haloti Ngata. You all saw what Ngata did in the AFC Championship game.

That's what this team needs. Period. They will also need a veteran FA because NO rookie NT will be ready day 1.

As for Olshansky if they seriously want him, then $8 million guaranteed won't remotely cut it. It won't be enough to sign any starting DE who's 28 years old or younger and has any real promise at all. So, either the rumor that the Broncos want Olshansky is wrong (my opinion), or else the number is wrong, or else Goodman is dumber than a rock. Take your pick.

Now, there's not one damn thing the Broncos can do to PREVENT another team from finding a good RB. That's just insane as a motivation, drafting someone so the Chargers won't.

Who knows whether some other RB won't end up being better? Because you just can't tell.

Wouldn't it be really dumb if the Broncos grabbed Moreno (bypassing their desperate howling need on defense) and then Chris Wells ended up having the better career?

If Raji isn't available (good bet) then the Broncos need to draft the SECOND biggest need on the team -- and that's ILB or DE. Rey Maualugua or James Laurinaitis. A pass-rushing DE wouldn't be horrible either.

Frankly, the Broncos cannot afford to pass on the best defensive player on the board when they draft.

Unless all the best defensive prospects are all off the board and Moreno is the ONLY talent left at that spot then you DON'T draft him.

LET the Chargers have him, because they will either get him or Chris Wells, and in either case that's a talented back. So Denver is going to have to face the Chargers with a talented RB twice a year. Period. And you don't KNOW in advance that Moreno is going to be the next L.T. any more than you know that Raji is going to be the next Haloti Ngata.

But, you DO know that starting RBs are a LOT easier to draft than elite NTs.

And you know that Denver needs about 7 or 8 new starters on defense. And if you need that many, you can't get them all through FA, so finding an immediate impact player or two on DEFENSE via the draft is essential for building the future of this team.

The Chargers have Shawne Merriman, Luis Castillo, and Jamal Williams on defense. Who do the Broncos have? Champ Bailey? That's not remotely enough!

A RB in the first round is just NOT a serious consideration if there are any other options, unless Jim Goodman has simply lost his mind. :coffee:

BR said Raji was the top guy on our board, It's true he mentioned others we were heavily looking at but Raji was the only one he listed as our clear top choice..

I don't put much stock in us taking a guy in the 1st just to block SD from getting him. But it would be an extra bonus.. Like trading a guy out of the division, we have seen teams take a lesser trade just so they don't have to face the guy twice a year..

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 04:56 PM
wow, seriously? no it's not. i understand what your saying long term but your incorrect when you say drafting for need will make you fail.

I don't believe he was saying that to the extent you took it.. In our case, we have like 4 areas of high need, we might have NT at the top of our wish list, however, if the NT we wanted is gone, it makes more sense to take our top guy at another position of need rather then reaching on a lesser talent. We would be doing both, taking the PBA at a position of need.

IMO, all our needs and none needs should be figured into the the teams prospect rating. Then they simply take the top guy on their board. If a RB is such a great talent, his rating is higher then any other player after subtracting points for none need and adding points for need at the other positions, he is simply to good to pass up.


when teams like pitt need a qb they get a rothlisberger through the draft, when denver needs a lt the get a clady through the draft, when the bears need a rb the get a forte through the draft. ect. they want an immediate impact player usually in the 1st round. thats football 101. if you want a development player or a guy to ride the bench (unless his name is aaron rogers) then you search later in the draft. you dont toss around your first rounder like its cotton candy at the turlock fair.

Forte was not a 1st rounder, We had other needs besides LT, Clady was simply to good a prospect to pass up, + he filled a need..

It goes both ways, The 9iners needed a QB and took Smith 1st overall, how did that turn out? All I'm saying is no matter who you take, you better have them scouted as a top guy left on the board... If your taking a guy in the 1st that you have serious questions about and you have higher rated players with a lot less risk on your board, your making a mistake.

LRtagger
01-28-2009, 05:04 PM
BR said Raji was the top guy on our board, It's true he mentioned others we were heavily looking at but Raji was the only one he listed as our clear top choice..

I don't put much stock in us taking a guy in the 1st just to block SD from getting him. But it would be an extra bonus.. Like trading a guy out of the division, we have seen teams take a lesser trade just so they don't have to face the guy twice a year..

Didnt SD resign Sproles because Mike wanted to bring him here and they didnt want us to have him?

WARHORSE
01-28-2009, 05:17 PM
The Steelers drafting Mendenhall last year was good example of drafting the BPA and not drafting for need. Thier FO stated as much. They said Mendenhall was just too good to pass up and when he dropped to thier spot. I think good teams balance drafting the BPA and filling positions of need. If the Pats had Mayo as thier #1 player in the first round last year, I doubt they would have traded down to get him later. He did fill a position of need for them though. They also reached for Chad Jackson the year he came out, because he was thier #1 need.


If the Steelers had Mendenhall healthy right now, I dont think this superbowl would be anywhere near the same game.

Mendenhall is going to be a very good pro back imo.

broncofaninfla
01-28-2009, 05:23 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Igor. The guy is a beast.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 05:26 PM
Didnt SD resign Sproles because Mike wanted to bring him here and they didnt want us to have him?

I know there was some talk of that, I believe the talk was about an added bonus for them to sign him this year was to keep him away from Denver.

Also, IIRC Shanahan said something about wanting him if for no other reason so we didn't have to play against him twice a year. He also said the same thing about the PB Raiders corner who is a FA this year. (I'm not even going to attempt to spell his name :D)

SmilinAssasSin27
01-28-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't care who we get as long as he can play and stays out of jail. Who cares if Igor, or anyone else for that matter, hates the Broncos. I'd have less respect for the division rivals if they didn't.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 05:30 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Igor. The guy is a beast.

It would be a bit like Neal Smith coming over from KC. I hated him there... Maybe Cutler could tell him, It's nice to have you on the good side. :) I would love to see him smash Rivers into the ground 3 or 4 times a year.. :D

Lonestar
01-28-2009, 06:20 PM
I did not like Igor at first, thought he was drafted to high, but the games I seen him the past two years or so impressed me.. Seemed to have non stop motor..

TXBRONC
01-28-2009, 06:49 PM
BR said Raji was the top guy on our board, It's true he mentioned others we were heavily looking at but Raji was the only one he listed as our clear top choice..

I don't put much stock in us taking a guy in the 1st just to block SD from getting him. But it would be an extra bonus.. Like trading a guy out of the division, we have seen teams take a lesser trade just so they don't have to face the guy twice a year..

Neither do I put much stock in Denver taking a running back in the first round just to block San Diego from getting him. Where I don't agree with Cugel is idea not drafting Moreno even all of our top defensive picks are gone. If he's clearly the best player on the board at point take him. Should that happen then I would say do what it takes to get the next best nose tackle available.

underrated29
01-28-2009, 07:00 PM
well, I do that strategy all the time in my fantasy football drafts. If i need say a WR and the next couple guys behind me need RB- I will take the RB and wait another round for a lesser WR.

RB's are too valuable commodity in FF and real football, and if i can make my team better and the same time keep another team from getting better. That gain is larger than me making a big improvement where i need it, and the other team making a big improvement where they need it.


But with our needs, i dont see how they can do that. If we had a half a defense then i would say yes. With our whole defense needing to be fixed i say no thanks- we must trade down for someone who wants moreno.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Neither do I put much stock in Denver taking a running back in the first round just to block San Diego from getting him. Where I don't agree with Cugel is idea not drafting Moreno even all of our top defensive picks are gone. If he's clearly the best player on the board at point take him. Should that happen then I would say do what it takes to get the next best nose tackle available.


well, I do that strategy all the time in my fantasy football drafts. If i need say a WR and the next couple guys behind me need RB- I will take the RB and wait another round for a lesser WR.

RB's are too valuable commodity in FF and real football, and if i can make my team better and the same time keep another team from getting better. That gain is larger than me making a big improvement where i need it, and the other team making a big improvement where they need it.


But with our needs, i dont see how they can do that. If we had a half a defense then i would say yes. With our whole defense needing to be fixed i say no thanks- we must trade down for someone who wants moreno.

I agree with the trade down but we would have to find someone willing to trade with us. and it be worth our while..

Here's how I see it. Lets say we have 224 guys on our board, the top 10 are rated 9+ the next 10 are rated 8.5 - 8.8. If 8 of our top 10 guys are gone, the 2 being left are both RB's, who have ratings of 9.5 and 9.4 do you take the RB who is now at the top of your board or a defensive guy with an 8.8 rating? If you could trade down around 5-8 spots, your guarantied to be able to at least get one of your guys with an 8.5 + rating.

IMO, It makes more sense to do that then to just go ahead and take the guy with the 8.8 rating at 12. Either that or take the guy with the 9.5 rating...

Some might say, we need the guy with the 8.8 rating so we should take him, The problem I have with this is that, they knew how much they needed help at the position when they gave the players the rating. That has already been figured into the equation. If they wanted that player so much more then anyone else, why didn't they give him a higher rating? You get my point? It's their rating, their the ones who put him in the group he's in. They already said he wasn't much better then the other guys around him when they gave him the grade.. So why would they waist the 12th pick to take him over the other guys they could have had 15 - 20?

Plus, they knew their need for RB when they gave the RB the 9.5 grade.. Clearly despite of the need, they felt he was that great a talent. The same logic that gave him the 9.5, also says they should take him at 12 if their going to pick there..

TXBRONC
01-28-2009, 08:31 PM
well, I do that strategy all the time in my fantasy football drafts. If i need say a WR and the next couple guys behind me need RB- I will take the RB and wait another round for a lesser WR.

RB's are too valuable commodity in FF and real football, and if i can make my team better and the same time keep another team from getting better. That gain is larger than me making a big improvement where i need it, and the other team making a big improvement where they need it.


But with our needs, i dont see how they can do that. If we had a half a defense then i would say yes. With our whole defense needing to be fixed i say no thanks- we must trade down for someone who wants moreno.

Finding a trade partner when you're wanting to trade down is difficult, because teams just don't like giving up the draft currency. However, running backs are ususally a pretty safe pick, so if some other teams wants him bad enough I'm sure a deal could be made.

Heck I would even entertain the idea of trading with the Dudz so long as the deal included not only this year's number one, next year's number one and Felicia Rivers would have wear a dresses as his uniform. :D

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 08:45 PM
Finding a trade partner when you're wanting to trade down is difficult, because teams just don't like giving up the draft currency. However, running backs are ususally a pretty safe pick, so if some other teams wants him bad enough I'm sure a deal could be made.

Heck I would even entertain the idea of trading with the Dudz so long as the deal included not only this year's number one, next year's number one and Felicia Rivers would have wear a dresses as his uniform. :D

Your right, in the NFL its all about this year. Teams are willing to throw away a lot to land a guy, they believe will put them over the hump.

If we could get a #1 next year to move back 5 - 8 spots in the situation I just described, I would jump on it, assuming of course that was the best offer :D

TXBRONC
01-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Your right, in the NFL its all about this year. Teams are willing to throw away a lot to land a guy, they believe will put them over the hump.

If we could get a #1 next year to move back 5 - 8 spots in the situation I just described, I would jump on it, assuming of course that was the best offer :D

Most definitely. :beer:

Bad Intentions
01-28-2009, 08:53 PM
Comparing a Fantasy Football draft with an NFL draft... priceless!

Blue, I'd say whoever is telling you that McFadden was a 2 of 5 player was either BSing you or doesn't belong in the league. Character concerns... sure! Trouble running inside...okay. But he was most certainly rated high in Catching the ball, Outside running, and ability to break the big play. Anybody that thinks otherwise simply does not deserve to have a position in the NFL. Seriously Jonathon Stewart had two more catches in his college career than McFadden. Are you going to try and defend those two catches as a defining difference?

If you're going to make stuff up at least make it good. Tell me the Broncos are considering trading their first in 2010 so that they can draft both Maclin and Wells or something. Make up something good! Saying we are targeting Pettigrew b/c Gase watched him while he was with the Niners is lame.

Here's who Bronco fans should watch for... Raji, Maualuga, and then Brown in the first round. In the 2nd round, watch for Delmas. Oh btw, weren't you the one that was saying the Broncos were so high on William Moore. So much so that they were concerned he could go in the top 10? The same William Moore that could be around on day two! Your information is horrible and if it is real... even a little bit, I have great concerns with the Broncos organization. GREAT CONCERNS!

Lonestar
01-28-2009, 09:07 PM
I agree with the trade down but we would have to find someone willing to trade with us. and it be worth our while..

Here's how I see it. Lets say we have 224 guys on our board, the top 10 are rated 9+ the next 10 are rated 8.5 - 8.8. If 8 of our top 10 guys are gone, the 2 being left are both RB's, who have ratings of 9.5 and 9.4 do you take the RB who is now at the top of your board or a defensive guy with an 8.8 rating? If you could trade down around 5-8 spots, your guarantied to be able to at least get one of your guys with an 8.5 + rating.

IMO, It makes more sense to do that then to just go ahead and take the guy with the 8.8 rating at 12. Either that or take the guy with the 9.5 rating...

Some might say, we need the guy with the 8.8 rating so we should take him, The problem I have with this is that, they knew how much they needed help at the position when they gave the players the rating. That has already been figured into the equation. If they wanted that player so much more then anyone else, why didn't they give him a higher rating? You get my point? It's their rating, their the ones who put him in the group he's in. They already said he wasn't much better then the other guys around him when they gave him the grade.. So why would they waist the 12th pick to take him over the other guys they could have had 15 - 20?

Plus, they knew their need for RB when they gave the RB the 9.5 grade.. Clearly despite of the need, they felt he was that great a talent. The same logic that gave him the 9.5, also says they should take him at 12 if their going to pick there..


This I have to question If the scouts are going out and doing their job correctly yes they have a shopping list and once it is filled with names they bring back in then it is time for everyone to set down and watch game tape and rate them..

I do not believe that they are looking strong at positions where they are OK at but they will not NOT bring back tapes of a stud they see at say TE.. But since all the scouts are going to rate these players and then the new coaching staff. I'll bet we stay near our needs list before we pick up a future TE stud.. Unless they know something about existing players they will not be sharing with us..

Like when mikey drafted Jay.. only a few haters saw that one coming..

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 09:07 PM
Comparing a Fantasy Football draft with an NFL draft... priceless!

Blue, I'd say whoever is telling you that McFadden was a 2 of 5 player was either BSing you or doesn't belong in the league. Character concerns... sure! Trouble running inside...okay. But he was most certainly rated high in Catching the ball, Outside running, and ability to break the big play. Anybody that thinks otherwise simply does not deserve to have a position in the NFL. Seriously Jonathon Stewart had two more catches in his college career than McFadden. Are you going to try and defend those two catches as a defining difference?


I remember at the combine a lot of people talking about his ability to catch the ball.. How many more drops did he have then Stewart? Does he catch with his hand our try and trap it in the breadbox? I'm not saying Stewart was a better receiving option, just that there is a hell of a lot more you have to look at then just comparing total receptions



Here's who Bronco fans should watch for... Raji, Maualuga, and then Brown in the first round. In the 2nd round, watch for Delmas. Oh btw, weren't you the one that was saying the Broncos were so high on William Moore. So much so that they were concerned he could go in the top 10? The same William Moore that could be around on day two! Your information is horrible and if it is real... even a little bit, I have great concerns with the Broncos organization. GREAT CONCERNS!


LOL, there are mocks showing players going all over...:laugh: How many times do you think players will rise and fall from now until right before the draft?.. Even then, How many high rated players will fall or rise in the draft?

How many mocks had Mayo going in the top 10? A lot of things will change from now until draft day. We will have a better idea of where players might go after the combine but even then, there will always be some surprises...

Bad Intentions
01-28-2009, 09:36 PM
I remember at the combine a lot of people talking about his ability to catch the ball.. How many more drops did he have then Stewart? Does he catch with his hand our try and trap it in the breadbox? I'm not saying Stewart was a better receiving option, just that there is a hell of a lot more you have to look at then just comparing total receptions





LOL, there are mocks showing players going all over...:laugh: How many times do you think players will rise and fall from now until right before the draft?.. Even then, How many high rated players will fall or rise in the draft?

How many mocks had Mayo going in the top 10? A lot of things will change from now until draft day. We will have a better idea of where players might go after the combine but even then, there will always be some surprises...


The news on William Moore was broke a few days ago. In the last year he has gone from a virtual top 15 pick to a day two pick. Care to see what people were saying about him during the Sr. Bowl?

"• Missouri S William Moore failed to impress today. Not only did he look pretty stiff and not real quick but he also gave a huge cushion in coverage and it was as if he was scared of getting beat deep."

" • Missouri S William Moore gave the impression that he's a good player and has a nasty attitude about him. However, he is definitely a strong safety prospect and when put back in half cover he went way back. Moore's biggest flash of the day was when he came up and laid a big hit on Rashad Jennings." Who is the last strong safety to go early in the draft, even Roy Williams was drafted to play FS.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/img/practices/williammoore.jpg

Plus he senior season was terrible which further lowers his stock.

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 10:39 PM
The news on William Moore was broke a few days ago. In the last year he has gone from a virtual top 15 pick to a day two pick. Care to see what people were saying about him during the Sr. Bowl?

"• Missouri S William Moore failed to impress today. Not only did he look pretty stiff and not real quick but he also gave a huge cushion in coverage and it was as if he was scared of getting beat deep."

" • Missouri S William Moore gave the impression that he's a good player and has a nasty attitude about him. However, he is definitely a strong safety prospect and when put back in half cover he went way back. Moore's biggest flash of the day was when he came up and laid a big hit on Rashad Jennings." Who is the last strong safety to go early in the draft, even Roy Williams was drafted to play FS.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/img/practices/williammoore.jpg

Plus he senior season was terrible which further lowers his stock.

OK, so he may be dropping.. Either way, I bet he is getting a lot of looks from the Broncos because we need S help. Maybe they will decide he isn't worth the 12th pick? Maybe he will fall all the way out of the 1st round.. Stranger things have happened.

Your admitting he was rated high at one point right? So how does any of that prove the Broncos weren't/aren't seriously looking at him?

fcspikeit
01-28-2009, 10:50 PM
This I have to question If the scouts are going out and doing their job correctly yes they have a shopping list and once it is filled with names they bring back in then it is time for everyone to set down and watch game tape and rate them..

I do not believe that they are looking strong at positions where they are OK at but they will not NOT bring back tapes of a stud they see at say TE.. But since all the scouts are going to rate these players and then the new coaching staff. I'll bet we stay near our needs list before we pick up a future TE stud.. Unless they know something about existing players they will not be sharing with us..

Like when mikey drafted Jay.. only a few haters saw that one coming..


Here's what I think Jr, I bet our team scouts, scout areas of need. I bet the team also hires private scouting companies to do some scouting for them.. I'm sure they have a grade on the best at every position.. They probably don't have 224 players scouted on their board, but I'll bet it's more then 100..

They have to look deep, otherwise they might be out of players on their board with their last few picks.. If they didn't have at least some scouting report on the entire draft, they wouldn't be able to take advantage of falling players.

As I said, maybe the team scouts don't waist a lot of time looking at positions of none need, but I bet they at least have privet scouting outfits giving them reports of players. Plus, who do you suppose our WR coach would be looking at? LB's? :laugh:

Just because our WR coach might really like a WR or TE, that doesn't mean we are going to draft one... All that means is that he is watching his position of expertise.

DenBronx
01-28-2009, 10:57 PM
look if san diego wants a running back they will get one. why are we even worried about that? we have been facing sproles, lt and turner for years and they have been burning our asses. what we need to do is actually draft guys to stop them instead of playing keep away with a rookie moreno or wells. if we pick moreno then wells falls. if we pick wells then moreno falls. even if they are both gone then whats going to stop san diego from going after a guy like ward from the giants? this approach makes no sense.

Cugel
01-28-2009, 11:53 PM
In regards to the draft - you do not draft for need. You simply can not operate that way. Every single GM will tell you the same thing - rookies, no matter #1 overall or "Mr. Irrelevant" should never be relied upon to make an immediate impact. The leap from amateur to pro is too steep.

Immediate, glaring needs - should they arise - are best dealt with in free agency. By the time late April comes around, a pro GM should have his roster pretty much where he wants it. If not, the team is in trouble personnel-wise.

The draft is simple - get the best players you possibly can. You are looking for impact in round 1, and solid contributors on down. With good teams, the draft is never about this year. The draft is about 2 years down the road.

This is all self-evident but drafting for need is the quickest way to dive into mediocrity.

McD knows this, coming from NE. He doesn't want to have a good season now and then. He wants to build a dynasty and be the premier team in the NFL. You do that by finding the best players. That's why when I hear the Broncos are looking hard at Pettigrew it makes sense - yes, Graham and Scheffler have their strongpoints. But Pettigrew is looking like a perennial Pro Bowler, as is Mr. Moreno.

Nobody is suggesting drafting Marcus Nash because he's the highest rated receiver on your board and you need a receiver! So this argument is a straw man! :coffee:

The Broncos are NOT going to take a NT at #12 if Raji is not available simply because they need a NT. But, they'd be damn fools to say "Moreno is a better athlete than Raji so we'll take him."

Yes, FAs are for an immediate impact, but the idea is to use a FA as a bridge until the rookie you drafted is ready to start. Because of the salary cap structure you MUST have a roster that is largely filled with draft picks!

And the successful teams do that.

FAs are too old and expensive, and whether they fail or succeed they are all too soon cut or traded or retire. And then suddenly you have a HUGE dead-cap space hit because you have 3 or 4 years remaining on that 8 year contract, and the pro-rated $12 million bonus you paid is suddenly accelerated against the cap this season (or this season and next season, if the player is designated for the June cut).


You can't manage your roster within the salary cap unless you draft successfully. Worse than that, at some positions, notably DT, DE, QB and OT it's VERY HARD to find really good FAs, because teams just don't let good young players get away.

Instead you're gambling on players other teams have discarded for one reason or another (the Browncos, Sam Adams, Simeon Rice).

AT best you're paying HUGE money to a guy like Patrick Kearney (whom the Broncos lost a bidding war for to Seattle), or trading a high round draft pick or two for the services of a Jared Allen or John Abraham. That's at BEST!

Even when it seems to work out it often looks bad a couple of years later (Broncos giving up a high #2 draft pick for disgruntled WR Javon Walker, who had a good year and made the trade seem good -- for a time until he became just as disgruntled with the Broncos and left -- leaving the team with a big dead-cap hit and nothing whatever to show for that high second round pick of 3 years ago)!

That's largely why Mike Shanahan is no longer here. He failed to find defensive talent during the draft between 2001 and 2006. He didn't draft any successful DL during that period and the only 1st or 2nd draft pick he tried was Paul Toviesi.

Those players should have been the core of the defense right now, but they're not here (except DJ).

Instead he tried to fill the roster with high-priced players like Daryl Gardner, Gerrard Warren, Courtney Brown, and DeWayne Robertson, none of whom panned out for long.

The Broncos MUST take the best defensive player available at #12 unless there are really no good defensive prospects left at that time.

Example last season: The Broncos needed both a franchise LT, a main RB, a S, a DT and a DE, not necessarily in that order.

But, after Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Vernon Gholsten, Derrick Harvey all got taken in the first 8 picks, there wasn't a Safeties are rarely taken at the top of the draft, so that pretty much left OT or RB.

The need met the available player in Ryan Clady.

But, it's not always so neat! Sometimes you wind up with two players either of whom might be good, but you make a choice based on which position is needed.

Obviously, the Broncos aren't going to just grab anybody at #12, but they can and should try like hell to find a good defensive player, preferably at DT, DE, or LB at that point, because they need at least 3 or 4 defensive future starters to come out of this draft, if they can possibly manage it.

Cugel
01-29-2009, 12:04 AM
The Broncos don't have the luxury of taking the "best available player regardless of position." Unlike the Colts, Steelers, Titans, Giants, Eagles, Chargers, they DON'T have a generally balanced team with a lot of good players on both offense and defense and just a few needs.

They need practically an entire new starting defense!

If the Chargers decide their top need is a RB but no RB worthy of a 1st round pick is available they can just take something else, and wait a round or two.

But, the Broncos MUST find defensive help in almost every round.

The idea that you can always just draft the best player no matter how crappy your team? Well, Matt Millen believed that too in Detroit and look what happened to him! He kept drafting WRs, his team kept sucking, and now he's looking for work! Bye, bye Matt! Don't let the door hit you on the way out! :coffee:

McDaniels has at most 3 years to get the defense ready to make a championship run before he's fired! If the team sucks because the defense sucks for the next 2 years, the pressure to fire him from the fans will be white hot! He can't afford to fail in finding defensive help in any of those drafts!

DenBronx
01-29-2009, 12:12 AM
the broncos havnt even been a playoffs team the last 3 years. luxury picks are only for the teams that are stacked on talent and that go deep into the playoffs. we unfortunately have way too much rebuilding to even think about it.

Bad Intentions
01-29-2009, 12:19 AM
look if san diego wants a running back they will get one. why are we even worried about that? we have been facing sproles, lt and turner for years and they have been burning our asses. what we need to do is actually draft guys to stop them instead of playing keep away with a rookie moreno or wells. if we pick moreno then wells falls. if we pick wells then moreno falls. even if they are both gone then whats going to stop san diego from going after a guy like ward from the giants? this approach makes no sense.

We draft ahead of them in every round... ;)

Lonestar
01-29-2009, 12:28 AM
Just wanted to say that last night I posted something that was questionable in whether folks were attacking BR.. or mocking him..

I just wanted after sleeping on it I decided that I was wrong and have removed the post ..

I still feel that some of the posts were close but after all it is a football board that everyone has an opinion.

I'll try to do better next time... See ya night

WARHORSE
01-29-2009, 12:52 AM
I agree with the trade down but we would have to find someone willing to trade with us. and it be worth our while..

Here's how I see it. Lets say we have 224 guys on our board, the top 10 are rated 9+ the next 10 are rated 8.5 - 8.8. If 8 of our top 10 guys are gone, the 2 being left are both RB's, who have ratings of 9.5 and 9.4 do you take the RB who is now at the top of your board or a defensive guy with an 8.8 rating? If you could trade down around 5-8 spots, your guarantied to be able to at least get one of your guys with an 8.5 + rating.

IMO, It makes more sense to do that then to just go ahead and take the guy with the 8.8 rating at 12. Either that or take the guy with the 9.5 rating...

Some might say, we need the guy with the 8.8 rating so we should take him, The problem I have with this is that, they knew how much they needed help at the position when they gave the players the rating. That has already been figured into the equation. If they wanted that player so much more then anyone else, why didn't they give him a higher rating? You get my point? It's their rating, their the ones who put him in the group he's in. They already said he wasn't much better then the other guys around him when they gave him the grade.. So why would they waist the 12th pick to take him over the other guys they could have had 15 - 20?

Plus, they knew their need for RB when they gave the RB the 9.5 grade.. Clearly despite of the need, they felt he was that great a talent. The same logic that gave him the 9.5, also says they should take him at 12 if their going to pick there..

And you have partially illustrated why draft day success, whether GM or headcoach, is predicated on many variables..........not just your ability to evaluate talent. What the teams around you need, the availabilitiy of good talent for your selection, as well as a willing partner to trade down if you deem there ISNT satisfactory talent for the pick you have on the board.

If we are picking at 12, and we think that all the players left on the board are not worthy of that pick, do you pick a guy that you know isnt worth the pick, or do you try to trade down?

You try to trade down.

So you try to trade down, and no one will even offer you a trade worth equal draft value points, but you DO have offers where you LOSE draft value points but you are moving down to where you feel the players available warrant the draft slots you would now be selecting in.

Do you draft a player that you think isnt worth the pick, or trade down losing points?

Not only that, but what if the only guy on your board that warrants the 12th pick is a franchise QB like Sanchez?

Do you pick him if forced to and then try to trade him later?

A TON of variables in the draft, and talent evaluation thats spot on does not mean a successful draft.

History proves it.

dogfish
01-29-2009, 12:55 AM
look if san diego wants a running back they will get one. why are we even worried about that? we have been facing sproles, lt and turner for years and they have been burning our asses. what we need to do is actually draft guys to stop them instead of playing keep away with a rookie moreno or wells. if we pick moreno then wells falls. if we pick wells then moreno falls. even if they are both gone then whats going to stop san diego from going after a guy like ward from the giants? this approach makes no sense.



personally, i'm more nervous about them getting lesean mccoy than either wells or moreno. . . .

red98
01-29-2009, 01:04 AM
And you have partially illustrated why draft day success, whether GM or headcoach, is predicated on many variables..........not just your ability to evaluate talent. What the teams around you need, the availabilitiy of good talent for your selection, as well as a willing partner to trade down if you deem there ISNT satisfactory talent for the pick you have on the board.

If we are picking at 12, and we think that all the players left on the board are not worthy of that pick, do you pick a guy that you know isnt worth the pick, or do you try to trade down?

You try to trade down.

So you try to trade down, and no one will even offer you a trade worth equal draft value points, but you DO have offers where you LOSE draft value points but you are moving down to where you feel the players available warrant the draft slots you would now be selecting in.

Do you draft a player that you think isnt worth the pick, or trade down losing points?

Not only that, but what if the only guy on your board that warrants the 12th pick is a franchise QB like Sanchez?

Do you pick him if forced to and then try to trade him later?

A TON of variables in the draft, and talent evaluation thats spot on does not mean a successful draft.

History proves it.

Excellent analysys. Way to point out the subtleties in the drafting process,
as well as the tough choices that confront the drafters.

fcspikeit
01-29-2009, 01:18 AM
And you have partially illustrated why draft day success, whether GM or headcoach, is predicated on many variables..........not just your ability to evaluate talent. What the teams around you need, the availabilitiy of good talent for your selection, as well as a willing partner to trade down if you deem there ISNT satisfactory talent for the pick you have on the board.

If we are picking at 12, and we think that all the players left on the board are not worthy of that pick, do you pick a guy that you know isnt worth the pick, or do you try to trade down?

You try to trade down.

So you try to trade down, and no one will even offer you a trade worth equal draft value points, but you DO have offers where you LOSE draft value points but you are moving down to where you feel the players available warrant the draft slots you would now be selecting in.

Do you draft a player that you think isnt worth the pick, or trade down losing points?

Not only that, but what if the only guy on your board that warrants the 12th pick is a franchise QB like Sanchez?

Do you pick him if forced to and then try to trade him later?

A TON of variables in the draft, and talent evaluation thats spot on does not mean a successful draft.

History proves it.


True and I was only talking about the ratings of our FO. They're setting the ratings for their board, so it should be easy enough to draft off them and stick to the rules the used while coming up with their rating formula..

The conversation really turns when you disagree with the FO rating of players... If we draft someone at 12, I am assuming he at least had a high enough rating on their board to justify the pick... Even if I disagree with the rating. I get the feeling this wasn't always the case, It seemed at times we would take someone only because the top 3 options at the positions we wanted were gone. Out of need the guy was probably rated to high to begin with, then we drafted him 10+ picks to high on top of that... That's the kind of thing that pisses me off!

When someone says, "we have to draft at this position because of need, regardless who's left," I think of that.


I am reminded of the 9iners taking Smith, Did they really have that high a grade on him? Did they simply take him because he was the best on the board at their position of need? Either way it was a bad pick. However, if you ask me, it is worse if they didn't have him rated that high. If that were the case, all they did was waist the pick! They could have taken a true Pro Bowler at another position who was actually rated higher then Smith on their board. They would have been better off for it too. The next year they could have drafted a real franchise QB in Cutler. That one pick screwed Nolan as the coach. They couldn't win with Smith, they couldn't draft another QB and admit their failings..

In the end, either the guy you want and need is really there or he isn't.. If you don't see him you have no choice but to take someone else, why waist the pick?

There has to be some balance, We have enough needs, there shouldn't be a problem in drafting the PBA at a position of need.


Depending on the level of want for the QB, that could be a good strategy, If a team is looking for a QB and they know you don't need one, they would be less likely to trade picks with you. If you draft him, they will have very little choice except make a deal if they want the guy, or they will lose him to another team. If someone had taken Flacco at lets say 13, what would Baltimore have done to get him in trade? It is a bit risky, but if it's the right guy, you could defiantly use that for your advantage. Assuming your guy isn't there and no one wants to trade with you...

TXBRONC
01-29-2009, 08:32 AM
Here's what I think Jr, I bet our team scouts, scout areas of need. I bet the team also hires private scouting companies to do some scouting for them.. I'm sure they have a grade on the best at every position.. They probably don't have 224 players scouted on their board, but I'll bet it's more then 100..

They have to look deep, otherwise they might be out of players on their board with their last few picks.. If they didn't have at least some scouting report on the entire draft, they wouldn't be able to take advantage of falling players.

As I said, maybe the team scouts don't waist a lot of time looking at positions of none need, but I bet they at least have privet scouting outfits giving them reports of players. Plus, who do you suppose our WR coach would be looking at? LB's? :laugh:

Just because our WR coach might really like a WR or TE, that doesn't mean we are going to draft one... All that means is that he is watching his position of expertise.

I have to agree with this teams probably do scout every position regardless if the position is a team strength.

Northman
01-29-2009, 08:35 AM
I have to agree with this teams probably do scout every position regardless if the position is a team strength.

Good point. Why only scout certain areas? If you limit yourself and the players you scouted are taken then what? It would be wise for any organization to scout every possible player.

Ziggy
01-29-2009, 10:03 AM
I could care less who the Chargers draft. The Goodmans have mopped the floor with AJ Smith in the draft 2 out of the last 3 years. I think that we're headed down the right path as far as that goes.

On a side note, I doubt Raji will be there with our #1 pick, considering Capers was hired as DC in Green Bay. He'll be switching thier D to a 3-4 and he knows the value of a true NT. I know that he doesn't make thier picks, but I'd be willing to wager that they go after Raji if he is still there at the 9th pick.

Fan in Exile
01-29-2009, 10:10 AM
I could care less who the Chargers draft. The Goodmans have mopped the floor with AJ Smith in the draft 2 out of the last 3 years. I think that we're headed down the right path as far as that goes.

On a side note, I doubt Raji will be there with our #1 pick, considering Capers was hired as DC in Green Bay. He'll be switching thier D to a 3-4 and he knows the value of a true NT. I know that he doesn't make thier picks, but I'd be willing to wager that they go after Raji if he is still there at the 9th pick.

I would be willing to take that bet. They're said to be pretty high on Cole and Pickette as NT candidates so I can't see them spending their first on him. They also have Harrell who could fit. They've got so many other holes that NT wouldn't make sense.

WARHORSE
01-29-2009, 10:19 AM
True and I was only talking about the ratings of our FO. They're setting the ratings for their board, so it should be easy enough to draft off them and stick to the rules the used while coming up with their rating formula..

The conversation really turns when you disagree with the FO rating of players... If we draft someone at 12, I am assuming he at least had a high enough rating on their board to justify the pick... Even if I disagree with the rating. I get the feeling this wasn't always the case, It seemed at times we would take someone only because the top 3 options at the positions we wanted were gone. Out of need the guy was probably rated to high to begin with, then we drafted him 10+ picks to high on top of that... That's the kind of thing that pisses me off!

When someone says, "we have to draft at this position because of need, regardless who's left," I think of that.


I am reminded of the 9iners taking Smith, Did they really have that high a grade on him? Did they simply take him because he was the best on the board at their position of need? Either way it was a bad pick. However, if you ask me, it is worse if they didn't have him rated that high. If that were the case, all they did was waist the pick! They could have taken a true Pro Bowler at another position who was actually rated higher then Smith on their board. They would have been better off for it too. The next year they could have drafted a real franchise QB in Cutler. That one pick screwed Nolan as the coach. They couldn't win with Smith, they couldn't draft another QB and admit their failings..

In the end, either the guy you want and need is really there or he isn't.. If you don't see him you have no choice but to take someone else, why waist the pick?

There has to be some balance, We have enough needs, there shouldn't be a problem in drafting the PBA at a position of need.


As in, does anyone REALLY think the niners wanted to draft Alex Smith at one?

They couldnt get out of the pick.

Lookin back in hindsight, they just may have taken third round pick justin tuck.

LRtagger
01-29-2009, 11:39 AM
I think what we will be stuck with is a scenario where Raji, Curry, Brown, and Orakpo will all be gone.

That should leave us choosing between Rey, Moreno, Wells, or English IMO. I would be happy with any of those guys.

I don't think we reach on Pettigrew and if we are really serious about him, then I think we try everything we can to trade back and maybe take him later in the first and get another 2nd round pick to get a guy like Moala or Brace.

If Raji is gone at #12 I think our best option is to trade back in the first, pick BPA with our #1 pick, then go after a NT and a DE/OLB/S in the second. Of course we all know that trading back is easier said than done. If we cant trade back, I think our chances of taking Pettigrew at #12 overall are none.

TXBRONC
01-29-2009, 12:47 PM
Good point. Why only scout certain areas? If you limit yourself and the players you scouted are taken then what? It would be wise for any organization to scout every possible player.

The way I see is if the guy they want isn't there then you need a fall back plan. Whether that means drafting a different for a different position of the same value, or trading back, or whatever.

TXBRONC
01-29-2009, 12:50 PM
I think what we will be stuck with is a scenario where Raji, Curry, Brown, and Orakpo will all be gone.

That should leave us choosing between Rey, Moreno, Wells, or English IMO. I would be happy with any of those guys.

I don't think we reach on Pettigrew and if we are really serious about him, then I think we try everything we can to trade back and maybe take him later in the first and get another 2nd round pick to get a guy like Moala or Brace.

If Raji is gone at #12 I think our best option is to trade back in the first, pick BPA with our #1 pick, then go after a NT and a DE/OLB/S in the second. Of course we all know that trading back is easier said than done. If we cant trade back, I think our chances of taking Pettigrew at #12 overall are none.

I know Blue Run mentioned that Denver was very high on Pettigrew but it really makes no sense. The passing attack that is going to be employed isn't the most tight end friendly.

Cugel
01-29-2009, 12:54 PM
I would be willing to take that bet. They're said to be pretty high on Cole and Pickette as NT candidates so I can't see them spending their first on him. They also have Harrell who could fit. They've got so many other holes that NT wouldn't make sense.

I hope you're right, but S.F. might take Raji at #10 too. Then there's Buffalo at #11 again, and they could entertain a trade.

In fact, it's unlikely that the Broncos get the chance to take the #1 NT in the draft at #12. The Broncos might be stuck just outside the window of the candy store as Brown, Raji, and Orakpo all get taken between 9-11.

But, there may be LBs Maualuga or James Laurinaitis. Either would improve the Broncos weak LB corps and would have an instant impact from ILB. Rey didn't look all that great in the Senior bowl so he would probably not be taken in the top 10. He might need some coaching, but has real potential.

2nd or 3rd round NTs are generally beefy guys who are no threat to rush the passer. But, that's likely all the Broncos can get.

The alternative is to engineer a trade to move up into the top 10 to around 8 or 9 to grab Raji. I don't know if that's worth it to them considering all the other needs this team has.

But, I'll repeat. McDaniel does NOT have very long to turn this defense around and he has to find a lot of starting talent on defense. He also needs to sign some good FAs to man the front seven.

The need simply becomes more desperate if Thomas can't make the transition to 3-4 DE, and Moss, Crowder and Dumervil aren't able to adapt to play OLB.

In that case he's got to fill 6 of the seven positions with players not on the roster.

It means probably trading or releasing all four players.

Even if the team makes a huge splash in FA by signing someone like Julius Peppers (unlikely) they still won't be much better defensively this season, without an elite NT.

Cugel
01-29-2009, 12:58 PM
I sure hope the Broncos don't go all out to sign a TE when they already have Sheffler who's perfectly good at receiving, and Daniel Graham who's being paid big $ as a FA.

Just keep the guys you've got on offense who are good enough to get by with while you fix the defense! Pick up a RB in the 3rd or 4th round for depth in case Torain isn't healthy and you can't count on the other RBs they've got.

Another worry is "how healthy is DJ Williams really going to be going into the season after his shoulder surgery?"

If he's not ready to go initially, that sets the team back in learning the new system, and requires finding another FA or promoting someone to WILB.

Northman
01-29-2009, 01:02 PM
I sure hope the Broncos don't go all out to sign a TE when they already have Sheffler who's perfectly good at receiving, and Daniel Graham who's being paid big $ as a FA.

Just keep the guys you've got on offense who are good enough to get by with while you fix the defense! Pick up a RB in the 3rd or 4th round for depth in case Torain isn't healthy and you can't count on the other RBs they've got.

Another worry is "how healthy is DJ Williams really going to be going into the season after his shoulder surgery?"

If he's not ready to go initially, that sets the team back in learning the new system, and requires finding another FA or promoting someone to WILB.


I actually wouldnt mind them getting another TE. Shef spends too much time on IR so him being able to receive is limited because of his health issues. Obviously, i wouldnt want to spend a lot but i would be perfectly fine taking a guy like Nelson in the 4th to fill in for Shef's yearly injury bug.

fcspikeit
01-29-2009, 01:18 PM
I hope you're right, but S.F. might take Raji at #10 too. Then there's Buffalo at #11 again, and they could entertain a trade.

In fact, it's unlikely that the Broncos get the chance to take the #1 NT in the draft at #12. The Broncos might be stuck just outside the window of the candy store as Brown, Raji, and Orakpo all get taken between 9-11.

But, there may be LBs Maualuga or James Laurinaitis. Either would improve the Broncos weak LB corps and would have an instant impact from ILB. Rey didn't look all that great in the Senior bowl so he would probably not be taken in the top 10. He might need some coaching, but has real potential.

2nd or 3rd round NTs are generally beefy guys who are no threat to rush the passer. But, that's likely all the Broncos can get.

The alternative is to engineer a trade to move up into the top 10 to around 8 or 9 to grab Raji. I don't know if that's worth it to them considering all the other needs this team has.

But, I'll repeat. McDaniel does NOT have very long to turn this defense around and he has to find a lot of starting talent on defense. He also needs to sign some good FAs to man the front seven.

The need simply becomes more desperate if Thomas can't make the transition to 3-4 DE, and Moss, Crowder and Dumervil aren't able to adapt to play OLB.

In that case he's got to fill 6 of the seven positions with players not on the roster.

It means probably trading or releasing all four players.

Even if the team makes a huge splash in FA by signing someone like Julius Peppers (unlikely) they still won't be much better defensively this season, without an elite NT.

A lot of early reports have Laurinaitis falling out of the 1st round. Supposedly, he is going to have a less then impressive combine and some say it might push him into the 3rd round..

One can only hope, I would love to land him in the 2nd or 3rd round!

Ziggy
01-29-2009, 02:17 PM
A lot of early reports have Laurinaitis falling out of the 1st round. Supposedly, he is going to have a less then impressive combine and some say it might push him into the 3rd round..

One can only hope, I would love to land him in the 2nd or 3rd round!

I can see a possible Dan Conner fall out of the first and into the 2nd, but I don't think there's any way he slips to the 3rd. Even if he runs in the 4.7 range at the combine, I think he goes late 1st, early 2nd. Time will tell though, the draft is a strange animal.

LRtagger
01-29-2009, 02:23 PM
All i know is if we pick him at #12 im going to need a new TV

fcspikeit
01-29-2009, 02:48 PM
I can see a possible Dan Conner fall out of the first and into the 2nd, but I don't think there's any way he slips to the 3rd. Even if he runs in the 4.7 range at the combine, I think he goes late 1st, early 2nd. Time will tell though, the draft is a strange animal.

Conner went in the 2nd or 3rd last year? For some reason I was thinking he fell all the way to the 3rd round :confused:

Ziggy
01-29-2009, 03:11 PM
Conner went in the 2nd or 3rd last year? For some reason I was thinking he fell all the way to the 3rd round :confused:

Conner went in the 3rd, at 74. I chose the words in my post poorly. I meant that I could see DL falling out of the 1st like Conner did, but not slipping past the 2nd.

fcspikeit
01-29-2009, 03:15 PM
Conner went in the 3rd, at 74. I chose the words in my post poorly. I meant that I could see DL falling out of the 1st like Conner did, but not slipping past the 2nd.

I thought we were talking about Laurinaitis :confused: :laugh:

Requiem / The Dagda
01-30-2009, 06:06 PM
In regards to the draft - you do not draft for need. You simply can not operate that way. Every single GM will tell you the same thing - rookies, no matter #1 overall or "Mr. Irrelevant" should never be relied upon to make an immediate impact. The leap from amateur to pro is too steep.

No they wouldn't. I happen to know several people who have either worked for teams as scouts or had some capacity regarding player personnel. Two of them in fact, dispute this statement completely from the work they had done with their respective teams. They happened to be the only two I had asked. Not that I didn't already know the answer, but just to reinforce how preposterous of a statement is.

You don't draft for need? Why have the draft then? Are you saying teams don't have needs? That is what teams do. You can draft for value, you can draft a best player available -- but you also draft for need. I can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous that sounded.


The draft is simple - get the best players you possibly can. You are looking for impact in round 1, and solid contributors on down. This is all self-evident but drafting for need is the quickest way to dive into mediocrity.

Yeah, and you totally ignore drafting for needs. You know, like the Falcons did with Matt Ryan. Bad choice drafting for need and settling for mediocrity.

Scarface
01-31-2009, 09:28 AM
You don't draft for need? Why have the draft then? Are you saying teams don't have needs? That is what teams do. You can draft for value, you can draft a best player available -- but you also draft for need. I can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous that sounded.



Yeah, and you totally ignore drafting for needs. You know, like the Falcons did with Matt Ryan. Bad choice drafting for need and settling for mediocrity.

Drafting for need is a quick and easy way to skip over a more talented player at another position and end up with a bust at the position you needed. Of course you look to fill needs but your needs at a certain position should not supersede talent.

TXBRONC
01-31-2009, 10:53 AM
Drafting for need is a quick and easy way to skip over a more talented player at another position and end up with a bust at the position you needed. Of course you look to fill needs but your needs at a certain position should not supersede talent.

At the same time Scar you can always overlook the needs. The Falcons could have easily selected another player that more talented than Ryan at another position.

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 12:17 PM
I actually wouldnt mind them getting another TE. Shef spends too much time on IR so him being able to receive is limited because of his health issues. Obviously, i wouldnt want to spend a lot but i would be perfectly fine taking a guy like Nelson in the 4th to fill in for Shef's yearly injury bug.

That makes sense, at first I thought you were suggesting we draft Pettigrew. Nelson in the 3rd even would be understandable, the 4th would be fine and the 5th would be ideal. Good call!

TXBRONC
01-31-2009, 12:22 PM
I don't know if a tight end makes that much sense. Look at how they were used in New England's offense the last few years. They don't catch a lot passes.

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 12:33 PM
At the same time Scar you can always overlook the needs. The Falcons could have easily selected another player that more talented than Ryan at another position.

Exactly, going into the draft last year McFadden and Dorsey were both considered more valuable than Matt Ryan. The Falcons went with Ryan b/c of need.

To contrast that example though, a few years back the Vikings had a 1200 yard back in Chester Taylor. With a ton of other needs, the elected to go with Adrian Peterson in a move that was strictly based on BPA.

The Broncos have reached on several players in the past b/c of need. O'Neal, Middlebrooks, Tovessi, Pierce, Foster, Watts, Moss, and Crowder. They've also had a few need picks work out for them. Ryan Clady and Eddie Royal last year the most obvious two examples. Jay Cutler is an example of BPA as he was not an obvious need (except to Shanny) but clearly the best player on the board when he was selected.

The BPA when DJ Williams was selected was Steven Jackson (who most projected we would draft). Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but who could argue that he wouldn't have been a better selection?

I don't have the time to do it, but it would be interesting to see who the "BPA" was and who we selected over the last 10 years. And then look at both of their successes to determine what the better draft philosophy may be.

Requiem / The Dagda
01-31-2009, 12:34 PM
The Broncos probably have as much interest in Pettigrew as they do drafting Bogart Humphrey from Jackson Community College at #12.

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 12:34 PM
I don't know if a tight end makes that much sense. Look at how they were used in New England's offense the last few years. They don't catch a lot passes.

Ben Watson was hurt a lot. I think it's more circumstances and player availability than anything. McD is a smart coach and will maximize the talents of the players at his disposal. He'll see quickly that Scheff can split that seam up the middle and be a real weapon down field. The guy isn't one of the best in the business for nothing.

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 12:37 PM
The Broncos probably have as much interest in Pettigrew as they do drafting Bogart Humphrey from Jackson Community College at #12.

Supposedly BoHump has been working out with a world renowned strength and speed coach. He should come in at 265# and run a low 4.5. Ideal numbers for a ROLB! That would certainly put him around the middle of round 1.
:D:rolleyes:

Scarface
01-31-2009, 12:53 PM
At the same time Scar you can always overlook the needs. The Falcons could have easily selected another player that more talented than Ryan at another position.

The Falcons had a huge need at QB and Ryan probably was right at the top of their draft board. They made the right pick.

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 12:56 PM
They made the right pick b/c it was NEED!

Lonestar
01-31-2009, 02:13 PM
I don't know if a tight end makes that much sense. Look at how they were used in New England's offense the last few years. They don't catch a lot passes.

with Moss, welker then Stokely few years back not sure there would have been enough balls to go around..

What ever MC coach comes up with I'm sure it will good..

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 04:23 PM
with Moss, welker then Stokely few years back not sure there would have been enough balls to go around..

What ever MC coach comes up with I'm sure it will good..

You mean Stallworth? Stokely was with the Colts not Pats.

Cugel
01-31-2009, 10:07 PM
Exactly, going into the draft last year McFadden and Dorsey were both considered more valuable than Matt Ryan. The Falcons went with Ryan b/c of need.

To contrast that example though, a few years back the Vikings had a 1200 yard back in Chester Taylor. With a ton of other needs, the elected to go with Adrian Peterson in a move that was strictly based on BPA.

The Broncos have reached on several players in the past b/c of need. O'Neal, Middlebrooks, Tovessi, Pierce, Foster, Watts, Moss, and Crowder. They've also had a few need picks work out for them. Ryan Clady and Eddie Royal last year the most obvious two examples. Jay Cutler is an example of BPA as he was not an obvious need (except to Shanny) but clearly the best player on the board when he was selected.

The BPA when DJ Williams was selected was Steven Jackson (who most projected we would draft). Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but who could argue that he wouldn't have been a better selection?

I don't have the time to do it, but it would be interesting to see who the "BPA" was and who we selected over the last 10 years. And then look at both of their successes to determine what the better draft philosophy may be.

First of all, in the NFL there's a hierarchy of positions and where they are drafted that is based on how difficult it is to find those players and how important that position is.

Obviously finding a franchise QB is so important that if you don't have one and have the chance to draft one, you HAVE to take it. No ands ifs or buts.

At MOST you can gamble like Cleveland did when they took OT Joe Thomas with their 3# pick and then traded back up to #22 and still got Brady Quinn (although Brady Quinn hasn't lit up the league yet).

It's so tough to find a franchise QB outside of the top 10-12 picks that you can't miss on that opportunity.

Take a look at the AFC West for example:

San Diego - QB Phillip Rivers - 1st round - #4 - 2004.
Denver - QB Jay Cutler -1st round - #11 - 2006.
Oakland - QB JaMarcus Russell -1st round - #1 - 2007.
Kansas City - QB Brodie Croyle - 3rd round #85 -- 2006
- QB Tyler Thigpen - 7th round #217 -- 2007.

Now which team is going NOWHERE until they find that franchise QB? :coffee:

Another position where you HAVE to draft early is DT. This is due to Bill Parcells "Big Planet Theory" -- there are only so many men on the planet big enough and athletic enough to be a pass-rushing strong DT, so the demand always exceeds the supply. There simply aren't enough elite DTs to fill all 32 starting roster spots in the NFL. So, if you have the opportunity to draft a monster pass-rushing DT or DE and you don't have such a player on your roster you have to think hard about passing him by for a WR or RB.

That's why you see drafts like last year when 5 of the top 8 picks were DL! There's a premium on great pass-rushing DL, so they get taken early in the first round. Were those guys really better players than all the RBs, WRs, G's and safeties? NO! They're just harder to find because there are fewer really good DT/DE who can rush the passer.

Another spot that's similar is LT. Watch as many as 4 get taken in the top 10. It's impossible to find a good one via FA -- teams simply don't let their "franchise LT" go. They sign them up for 10 years and let them play. The Broncos were pretty lucky to get Ryan Clady at #12 last year. (RT is easier to find, so a guy you don't think will be quick enough to play LT but is a pure-hell elite road-grader RT might get taken later in the 1st or 2nd round).

So, a lot of drafting depends on the position. You can't look back and say that teams were "stupid" to pass up a RB like Adrian Peterson for a DE who might never be as good of a player. They did it because elite DT, DE, LT are so hard to find that you have to be VERY sure that WR or RB is going to be the next Ladamian Tomlinson before you pass up on the big tackle who might never get on a highlight reel but will keep your QB from being human hamburger for the next 10 years.

It turns out Peterson was so good that some of those teams will regret passing on him. But they went with the percentages. And the percentages say that it's easier to find a quality RB than a quality DT or DE, so take the DT/DE unless you're set at that position.

So, it's not simply "need" versus "skill" there's a very definite place in the draft order for different positions. Notice that every year teams DON'T draft Safeties in the first round? In 2008 1 and in 2007 2 safeties were taken in the first, but in 2006 and 2005 none. Is safety unimportant?

Certainly not! As any Broncos fan who watched Denver's safeties this season can tell you. But, many teams convert a later round college CB to safety and many college teams steer elite athletes to play CB or LB not safety anyway, so NFL teams don't draft them as highly.

It's just easier to find a starting safety in the later rounds than a starting DT, so you don't draft one in the first unless they're just outstanding and you don't have other pressing needs.

Same thing with G's. Even very good ones don't get often get taken in the first round. Are Guards less important than a good RT? Probably not, but it's just easier to find them in later rounds.

There's just a draft order by position as well as talent. You don't take a LB over a LT, or even a DE/DT unless the talent level is obviously much greater.

And teams that try and take the "best player available" regardless of need wind up like Matt Millen and the Detroit Lions -- taking 3 WRs in the top 5 picks and getting fired when your team sucks. :coffee:

SmilinAssasSin27
01-31-2009, 10:26 PM
They made the right pick b/c it was NEED!

Or their scouting dept actually did it's job. Everyone and their mother thought they'd go DT. That says to me there was a need there as well. They clearly had Ryan rated higher than anyone else, cuz they had needs all over. And it looks like it was clearly a great job by their front office. Many said Ryan didn't have what it takes. OOPS!

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 10:28 PM
You lost me when you started talking about the AFC West and their QBs. Then suggested the Chiefs were worse off than anybody else b/c they have two QBs that were selected outside of the top 12. The fact is, those QBs that were selected outside of the top 12 are much better than Fatboy Russell... yes including Brodie Frail. As for the rest of your post. Yeah, didn't bother reading it. Too long winded. I did happen to glance over the yellow part with your talk of safeties. When is the last time a Center was drafted in the first round? You can play that silly little game with kickers too. They routinely lead their team and the league in points scored. We need one too. So using your logic we should draft a kicker at #12 b/c he will automatically be good. Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

topscribe
01-31-2009, 10:28 PM
Good evening Broncos fans,
I had debated whether to post now, I got some whiplash by someone aware of this and some regs. on the board are miffed. I debated whether to bury this. I received a few condemning PM's and don't wish to upset the diehard fans. But now my agenda calls.
That said, DEN isn't hiding their desire for brute Igor Olshansky. He is at wits end with A.J. Smith and is not in the Bolt plans. He hates it there, and he hates the key figures. Not his scene if you get my drift. I understand DEN won't go over $8M guaranteed (which I think is low).
He's in my circle and hopefully this registers where it needs to. I've been with this kid since the combine and he is even stronger now than he was then.


At least, were this to come to fruition, the timing might be right.

Since Nalen is probably retiring, the locker room might escape mass destruction. :laugh:

-----

Bad Intentions
01-31-2009, 10:32 PM
Or their scouting dept actually did it's job. Everyone and their mother thought they'd go DT. That says to me there was a need there as well. They clearly had Ryan rated higher than anyone else, cuz they had needs all over. And it looks like it was clearly a great job by their front office. Many said Ryan didn't have what it takes. OOPS!

I had doubts about Matt Ryan. Dude has ice water running through his veins though. Flacco and Ryan were both very good rookie QBs but they both benefited greatly from strong running games. As for going with the QB over the DT or RB... they went with the biggest need. They probably had all three rated about the same. Who knows, maybe they had McFadden rated the highest but b/c of Turner it wasn't a need. Next up was Dorsey but a close third was Ryan. Both positions are hard to find. Typically top 10 DTs work out more often than top 10 QBs and therefore the DT would have been the safer pick. Either they did an outstanding job scouting Ryan or they took a gamble and it turned out golden for them!

SmilinAssasSin27
01-31-2009, 10:36 PM
I had doubts about Matt Ryan. Dude has ice water running through his veins though. Flacco and Ryan were both very good rookie QBs but they both benefited greatly from strong running games. As for going with the QB over the DT or RB... they went with the biggest need. They probably had all three rated about the same. Who knows, maybe they had McFadden rated the highest but b/c of Turner it wasn't a need. Next up was Dorsey but a close third was Ryan. Both positions are hard to find. Typically top 10 DTs work out more often than top 10 QBs and therefore the DT would have been the safer pick. Either they did an outstanding job scouting Ryan or they took a gamble and it turned out golden for them!

Are you seriously claiming you know what order they had players ranked...especially after they piked the right guy and watched all of the others bust?

Cugel
02-02-2009, 03:55 PM
You lost me when you started talking about the AFC West and their QBs. Then suggested the Chiefs were worse off than anybody else b/c they have two QBs that were selected outside of the top 12. The fact is, those QBs that were selected outside of the top 12 are much better than Fatboy Russell... yes including Brodie Frail. As for the rest of your post. Yeah, didn't bother reading it. Too long winded. I did happen to glance over the yellow part with your talk of safeties. When is the last time a Center was drafted in the first round? You can play that silly little game with kickers too. They routinely lead their team and the league in points scored. We need one too. So using your logic we should draft a kicker at #12 b/c he will automatically be good. Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

That's NOT my argument. :argue:

You shot your credibility all to hell with your first words!

It so happens that virtually EVERY starting QB in the NFL was drafted in the first round. The handful of exceptions only prove the rule. Some turn out to suck, but so what? That doesn't mean you can find a franchise QB in the 3rd round because you can't. :coffee:

Out of the top 10 passers in the NFL this season almost every one was taken in the first round.

What do Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNab, Matt Cassel and Chad Pennington have in common? All first round picks!

The one exception? Kurt Warner and that's it. And if you wait around for the next FA to come out of NFL Europe and become a SB MVP you'll be waiting a long time, because lightning striking in the same place twice is more likely!

Him and Tom Brady are the exceptions and good luck expecting your 6th round QB to turn out to be Tom Brady too!

And, you're so sure JaMarcus Russell is a bust when he's played only two years FOR OAKLAND? :laugh:

That proves exactly NOTHING! :coffee:

Oakland is where careers go to die and talented players are never heard from again because they have some of the worst coaches in the NFL -- they have to be because Al Davis is continually interfering, so no really GOOD coach wants to go there. Russell held out his rookie pre-season and then was thrown in with a bunch of typical Raider losers on offense. No surprise he's sucked so far, but they still managed to kick the Broncos asses at home no less this season.

And admitting you didn't even read my post, but you ripped it anyway?

You have ZERO credibility to say anything! :coffee:

And YES! Thigpen and Brodie Croyle suck. And that's not my opinion, the NFL QB statistics say that. The Chiefs will never get anywhere until they get a Franchise QB who's actually good. And they're going to have to use a 1st round pick to draft him too!

Fan in Exile
02-02-2009, 04:52 PM
That's NOT my argument, so Shut TFU before you put words in my mouth! :argue:

You don't win any arguments by being an ass-hat and ripping a post you didn't even bother to read! You shot your credibility all to hell with your first words!

It so happens that virtually EVERY starting QB in the NFL was drafted in the first round. The handful of exceptions only prove the rule. Some turn out to suck, but so what? That doesn't mean you can find a franchise QB in the 3rd round because you can't. :coffee:

Out of the top 10 passers in the NFL this season almost every one was taken in the first round.

What do Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNab, Matt Cassel and Chad Pennington have in common? All first round picks!

The one exception? Kurt Warner and that's it. And if you wait around for the next FA to come out of NFL Europe and become a SB MVP you'll be waiting a long time, because lightning striking in the same place twice is more likely!

Him and Tom Brady are the exceptions and good luck expecting your 6th round QB to turn out to be Tom Brady too!

And, you're so sure JaMarcus Russell is a bust when he's played only two years FOR OAKLAND? :laugh:

That proves exactly NOTHING! :coffee:

Oakland is where careers go to die and talented players are never heard from again because they have some of the worst coaches in the NFL -- they have to be because Al Davis is continually interfering, so no really GOOD coach wants to go there. Russell held out his rookie pre-season and then was thrown in with a bunch of typical Raider losers on offense. No surprise he's sucked so far, but they still managed to kick the Broncos asses at home no less this season.

And admitting you didn't even read my post, but you ripped it anyway?

You have ZERO credibility to say anything! :coffee:

And YES! Thigpen and Brodie Croyle suck. And that's not my opinion, the NFL QB statistics say that. The Chiefs will never get anywhere until they get a Franchise QB who's actually good. And they're going to have to use a 1st round pick to draft him too!


There are a lot of things that are wrong with this. Starting with Drew Brees and Cassel being first rounders. They weren't. There are also a lot of other exceptions. Tom Brady and Matt Hasselbeck are two of my favorite exceptions.

The thing about QB's to keep in mind is that few people really know what makes a good one so you can't tell too much from draft position.

broncosinindy
02-04-2009, 08:39 AM
so far none of his post have any credibility. no link is a rumor. anyone can make up a rumor and get all fuzy inside when everyone goes boinkers about it. ZOINKS, ASAMGWA IZ A BRONKOS!!!!11! spags was only stating the obvious. anyone who followed the broncos already knew that spags was on our radar. it was reported that mcdaniels was the favorite days before blue run said it came down to those 2. in fact it DIDNT come down to mcdaniels and spags. it came down to mcdaniels and morris.

look we all enjoy rumors. but im not buying into it. i dont mind discussing absurd ideas of going after a kicker in round 1 but hey like i said earlier some things just dont sound right at all. thats just me. sorry if it makes someone want to surf another web site.

for the record. it wasnt me that sent blue a pm. blue if can somehow backup the rumors of igor, pettigrew, ect. then i say you get mad props for insider of the year award. in the mean time we will all have fun wasting our days in the offseason talking about football right?

I recall him saying that we had looked at rashad jennings. and then there was a article out i think top had it. saying that we had indeed looked at RJ. nothing earth shattering but it falls on the line.

broncosinindy
02-04-2009, 09:28 AM
Comparing a Fantasy Football draft with an NFL draft... priceless!

Blue, I'd say whoever is telling you that McFadden was a 2 of 5 player was either BSing you or doesn't belong in the league. Character concerns... sure! Trouble running inside...okay. But he was most certainly rated high in Catching the ball, Outside running, and ability to break the big play. Anybody that thinks otherwise simply does not deserve to have a position in the NFL. Seriously Jonathon Stewart had two more catches in his college career than McFadden. Are you going to try and defend those two catches as a defining difference?

If you're going to make stuff up at least make it good. Tell me the Broncos are considering trading their first in 2010 so that they can draft both Maclin and Wells or something. Make up something good! Saying we are targeting Pettigrew b/c Gase watched him while he was with the Niners is lame.

Here's who Bronco fans should watch for... Raji, Maualuga, and then Brown in the first round. In the 2nd round, watch for Delmas. Oh btw, weren't you the one that was saying the Broncos were so high on William Moore. So much so that they were concerned he could go in the top 10? The same William Moore that could be around on day two! Your information is horrible and if it is real... even a little bit, I have great concerns with the Broncos organization. GREAT CONCERNS!
Dude Mcfadden is going to bust. He is not a great all around back and really he should have went where his teammate went. Felix Jones. You want your first rounder to be great at everything. Besides J Stew has ONE HELL OF A STIFF ARM, devastateing. Him and Wells are both clones, and if we liked Stew last year. i hope we take a chance on wells this year.

Rey Rey is a late first round pick. he is vastly overhyped. as a Junior he was 7-15 range with questions about his playing style. Red Flags, Negatives whatever you want to call them. He showed us this year the same thing he showed us last year. WITHOUT improveing his all around game. He is such a Nate Webster with more talent it makes me sick. If a guy you want to draft is not showing improvement in his game CoughJarvismossCough and are going on potential alone. you are gonna fail!!!

Delmas is a first round prospect at this point...

Back of the buss bro back of the buss

broncosinindy
02-04-2009, 09:48 AM
Another thing about Igor.

Money heals all wounds. He is a fieery guy that plays nasty. What you look for in a Lineman. Is a great DLineman who already has his Dline coach here.
Do i like the guy as a Charger hell no. Did i like Neil Smith, Bill Romonowski, Dale Carter when they first came to Denver hell no. but i loved they pumped up there teamates and played football. It would be horrible for denver to pass on him if he is healthy. He knows the system, Has played it and is not a rookie. My only concern is wether he could go from a one gap to a two gap. i frigging hate the two gap its harder to find players. my only question is this. if we stay 4-3 What is his position. LDE or UT?

If we could walk away from this FA with two DE for this system. Do it.

Ziggy
02-04-2009, 09:56 AM
Another thing about Igor.

Money heals all wounds. He is a fieery guy that plays nasty. What you look for in a Lineman. Is a great DLineman who already has his Dline coach here.
Do i like the guy as a Charger hell no. Did i like Neil Smith, Bill Romonowski, Dale Carter when they first came to Denver hell no. but i loved they pumped up there teamates and played football. It would be horrible for denver to pass on him if he is healthy. He knows the system, Has played it and is not a rookie. My only concern is wether he could go from a one gap to a two gap. i frigging hate the two gap its harder to find players. my only question is this. if we stay 4-3 What is his position. LDE or UT?

If we could walk away from this FA with two DE for this system. Do it.



Dale Carter? Really? :confused:

broncosinindy
02-04-2009, 10:00 AM
Dale Carter? Really? :confused:

Maybe not so much..Dale but neil smith and Bill romonowski. most assuredly

TXBRONC
02-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Maybe not so much..Dale but neil smith and Bill romonowski. most assuredly

I was excited about Carter when I heard we signed because I mistakenly thought he would be an up grade, but to my dismay he was complete flop from day one.

broncofaninfla
02-04-2009, 11:17 AM
I hated Dale Carter as a Chief and even more as a Bronco. Probably one of the most over rated players in the history of the NFL.

TXBRONC
02-04-2009, 11:49 AM
I hated Dale Carter as a Chief and even more as a Bronco. Probably one of the most over rated players in the history of the NFL.

I know he got burned a lot because he would always go for the big play.

rcsodak
02-04-2009, 12:25 PM
No one is attacking the poster. They are attacking the credibility of the post that said poster made.

Let's get that straight.

In a court of law, it's up to the "accuser" to show proof.

Let the same be said, here.

Jealousy will get you nowhere..


...except at the crow line if you're wrong.

rcsodak
02-04-2009, 12:34 PM
I guess. But, frankly, if you're going to leak shit, an internet message board isn't the place to do it.

That goes without saying.....



:puke:

rcsodak
02-04-2009, 01:05 PM
I actually wouldnt mind them getting another TE. Shef spends too much time on IR so him being able to receive is limited because of his health issues. Obviously, i wouldnt want to spend a lot but i would be perfectly fine taking a guy like Nelson in the 4th to fill in for Shef's yearly injury bug.

Sheffler doesn't spend "too much time on IR". :rolleyes:

He gets dinged up, just slightly more than others.

rcsodak
02-04-2009, 01:10 PM
No they wouldn't. I happen to know several people who have either worked for teams as scouts or had some capacity regarding player personnel. Two of them in fact, dispute this statement completely from the work they had done with their respective teams. They happened to be the only two I had asked. Not that I didn't already know the answer, but just to reinforce how preposterous of a statement is.

You don't draft for need? Why have the draft then? Are you saying teams don't have needs? That is what teams do. You can draft for value, you can draft a best player available -- but you also draft for need. I can't even begin to tell you how ridiculous that sounded.

Yeah, and you totally ignore drafting for needs. You know, like the Falcons did with Matt Ryan. Bad choice drafting for need and settling for mediocrity.

Uh oh....BR has competition in the "I know" department. :rolleyes:

EVERY draft site you go to, clearly states the differences between drafting for need or BPA.

You surely don't need to talk to a couple of guys who are 'in the know' to find where GM's tend to lean. :coffee:

rcsodak
02-04-2009, 01:14 PM
At the same time Scar you can always overlook the needs. The Falcons could have easily selected another player that more talented than Ryan at another position.

What's with the constant Falcon's examples?

Geez.

Name a team that doesn't desire a franchise qb! And that when in the position to get one, wouldn't!
Not to mention, a team that just lost their last supposed franchise qb to prison, and a head coach that went awol on them. That was the BEST TIME to get Ryan!

Sometimes, you know, the 'need' guy and the 'bpa' guy, are the SAME guy.

rcsodak
02-04-2009, 01:22 PM
I had doubts about Matt Ryan. Dude has ice water running through his veins though. Flacco and Ryan were both very good rookie QBs but they both benefited greatly from strong running games. As for going with the QB over the DT or RB... they went with the biggest need. They probably had all three rated about the same. Who knows, maybe they had McFadden rated the highest but b/c of Turner it wasn't a need. Next up was Dorsey but a close third was Ryan. Both positions are hard to find. Typically top 10 DTs work out more often than top 10 QBs and therefore the DT would have been the safer pick. Either they did an outstanding job scouting Ryan or they took a gamble and it turned out golden for them!

Compare Ryan's rookie year to Dorsey's.

Who's to say Dorsey was rated high with them?

CoachChaz
02-04-2009, 01:22 PM
I use to scout HS players and as a result I have a friend that is a scout for the Giants. Of course a team drafts for need, but they also dont dismiss players at positions they are solid at.

I remember talking with my friend last year and he was very high on a few CB's and DE's. Now I can always see a need for a CB, but I had to ask why he was looking at DE's with Osi and Tuck on his roster. He said he'd be fired if he didnt explore it. Low and behold...Osi get hurt

WARHORSE
02-04-2009, 01:43 PM
If you dont draft for need, why did the Broncos take three corners with their top picks in the same draft?




OF COURSE your team needs are a consideration when drafting.

DUH!!!

fcspikeit
02-04-2009, 02:04 PM
If you dont draft for need, why did the Broncos take three corners with their top picks in the same draft?




OF COURSE your team needs are a consideration when drafting.

DUH!!!

I don't think anyone is saying there not a "consideration". The question is, are teem needs the end of the discussion?

TXBRONC
02-04-2009, 03:07 PM
I don't think anyone is saying there not a "consideration". The question is, are teem needs the end of the discussion?

No not at all. Last year if Clady had not been available Stewart or Mendenhall would have been good choices the way I see it.