What position to take in the first round in April?

[cmc0605]

So, the only bad thing about all this awesomeness is that we clearly won't be in the top 5 of draft picks anymore, as most of us envisioned over a month ago. But we'll have a first round pick nonetheless. I still want to see if Tebow can pass consistently over the course of this season, but I think taking a QB in the first round is moving progressively more and more as being off the table, especially since we're heading into a draft position where all the "franchise" ones will be gone (let's face it, Elway and company don't want anymore big projects or could-be's). So, wondering what people think a good pick would be?

I still think DT is a big need; Bunkley has been playing well, and Thomas is worth having on the roster, but we still cannot contain that up-the-gut run consistently, as Adrian Peterson (oh wait...) showed last night. We already have an exciting defense, but probably not at the level of elite, and some of the excitement (like Dawkins, Bailey) have short careers ahead of them, so secondary seems like another worthy pick. It's too early to call Rahim Moore a wasted pick, and I suspect he will have a place on the team, but I don't have high expectations for him as an every down threat at safety.

[cuzz4169]

Why are we talking draft!!! We are in first place in the west talk playoffs!!!!

[Nomad]

Sell the farm to get Luck:balloons:

[cmc0605]

Why are we talking draft!!! We are in first place in the west talk playoffs!!!!

Oh I already think we're in :-)

[HORSEPOWER 56]

BPA as long as it's a DT or CB... :D

DT is always a need but Goodman and Champ are aging and we need a true #1 CB to start grooming. I like how Chris Harris has come along thus far and hope he can be Goodman's replacement, but we need to find our next Champ (as impossible as it seems) to take the reigns in a few years.

[NorCalBronco7]

Bpa
bpa
bpa

[SmilinAssasSin27]

MLB, OL, CB or DT.

MLB-Burfict, Te'o, Hightower
OL-DeCastro, Reiff, Glenn
CB-Jenkins, Kirkpatrick, Dennard
DT-Still, Poe

Gimme any of these names and I am a happy dude. I believe our team will be improved considerably.

[underrated29]

I will add on to Horse....

BPA as long as its DT or CB or DE or ILB...Whoever is the best thats there.


I personally think it needs to be DE or CB, probably CB, but I want the BPA!



We have seen how bad our CBs are and we saw yesterday how badly we missed VON...So if he or Doom were to get hurt next year...Yeah, we need another heater to fire at the QB.

But DT is a huge need to collapse the pocket and stuff the run and so is CB and ILB.




If its not one of those 4 positions I might go slightly postal on something.

[G_Money]

Depends what we do in FA. Keep your options open - we have a lot of needs, and there WILL be a great player available where we draft.

~G

[SmilinAssasSin27]

On an interesting, but completely meaningless, note...A bunch of mocks I've been eyeballing have us taking Lamar Miller, RB, Miami in the late teens/early 20s.

And some said they'd freak if we took Trent in round one. I'd hate to hear the fallout from that pick.

[dogfish]

i think we can conclusively narrow it down to OT, OG, RB, DT, DE, ILB and CB. . .


probably. . .

[wayninja]

Now that we have a Tim Tebow at Quarterback, we need a Tim Tebow at Tight end.

[dogfish]

On an interesting, but completely meaningless, note...A bunch of mocks I've been eyeballing have us taking Lamar Miller, RB, Miami in the late teens/early 20s.

And some said they'd freak if we took Trent in round one. I'd hate to hear the fallout from that pick.

if fox has any say in our drafting, people need to accept that we'll be taking a back high real soon if we don't this year. . .

[chazoe60]

Front 7, CB, or OL.


Or RB if a bonefide studd like Ball or Richardson is there. I only say this because of Fox's love for RBs and the fact that Montee Ball looks like such a friggin stud. That dude is really really good.


Anyone know what Ball's draft prospects are? He looks like the 1st or 2nd back off the board to me, but I'm no draftnik.

[OrangeHoof]

BPA is the obvious answer but now that we will be picking mid-to-late first round, it actually makes a RB like Trent Richardson or Wilson of Va. Tech more of an option in the first because you won't have to pay them quite as much as a top 10 and RBs usually fall in the draft. McGahee has lost a lot of tread on his tires and Moreno is fragile.

If by chance that LSU S/KR turns pro and is available in the draft, I'd grab him. He's a playmaker.

[Superchop 7]

1st Round- DeCastro (Outstanding Guard)


2nd Round- Cliff Harris (1st round talent at Corner Back, outstanding kick returner, got in trouble for driving without a license....hence the drop to round 2)


3rd Round- LaMichael James (Running back....we will need to move up ahead of San Diego to get him)


Three dynamic prospects.

2 of our top 3 picks will be a big help to our young QB, the other will also help the offense with his ability to return kicks.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Front 7, CB, or OL.


Or RB if a bonefide studd like Ball or Richardson is there. I only say this because of Fox's love for RBs and the fact that Montee Ball looks like such a friggin stud. That dude is really really good.


Anyone know what Ball's draft prospects are? He looks like the 1st or 2nd back off the board to me, but I'm no draftnik.

Fluid situation...he came into the season weighing @230 and slow and out of shape. Lost 20-25lbs and looks like a freak. Gievn the recent history of RBs slipping due to RBBCs and late round gems, I'd say Trent is the only definite 1st round candidate. Ball and Miller should battle to be the 2nd RB taken. MAYBE late 1st, but likely in the 2nd.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

if fox has any say in our drafting, people need to accept that we'll be taking a back high real soon if we don't this year. . .


Given that we have Willis under contract and Lance Ball, who has filled in veery nicely when needed, I actually wouldn't hate us taking a guy like Demps in round 3. A 3rd down guy who could be an outlet for Tebow would do great things for this offense. And it's not just he's a Gator to go along w/ Tebow. I just think we have our bruisers. A dynamic playmaker would add yet another dimension to our less than typical offense.

[Dapper Dan]

I'm really thinking corner. But at the same time, it will probably help having Squid back. I just hated the way our DBs looked against a rookie QB. I also thought we really needed DTs to stop the run. But all of the big runs are to the edge. We're doing good at blocking the middle. It will really matter who is left on the board. Like you guys were saying. We thought we had a top 10 pick and now it's looking more like it may not be a top 20 pick. With it being that far back you don't know who will drop or who will reach.

I have no complaints with taking a RB, DT, or CB in the first round. I really hope Carter and Moore work out at Safeties. I like our LB core. I like our Ends. I'm happy with our offense. They're young and will keep getting better. Given McGahee's age and the way Fox likes to use multiple RB's we will need a RB or three. I really like Montee Ball. I'd love for him to be TD Junior.

[Dapper Dan]

Or maybe we sell the farm for Percy Harvin.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'd be on board w/ that...but he'd have to LOVE Tebow to take a hit on his stats like that.

[CrazyHorse]

I have a feeling we trade up to get a QB. If we do I will be very pissed.

[Joel]

CB, G, WR. Probably in that order, though even after the good game Demaryius Thomas had catching wide open passes it still seems like our WR talent drops off fast after Decker (much like our CBs after Champ.) The only one of our guards I really like though is Kuper, and he's not a huge guy, so it would be nice to pickup a big powerful LG to open holes for McGahee. Grabbing a really great RT and moving Franklin to G is an option, but only if he's a REALLY great tackle (which probably won't be available at our draft spot.) As much trouble as Franklin has had in pass protection this year I really don't want to go through another season with a rookie protecting Tebows blind side.

Need over talent is definitely the way to go at our spot though, so I like how you're thinking. Find those missing pieces to put us over the top, don't look for the gems that are usually long gone by the #20 pick.

1st Round- DeCastro (Outstanding Guard)


2nd Round- Cliff Harris (1st round talent at Corner Back, outstanding kick returner, got in trouble for driving without a license....hence the drop to round 2)


3rd Round- LaMichael James (Running back....we will need to move up ahead of San Diego to get him)


Three dynamic prospects.

2 of our top 3 picks will be a big help to our young QB, the other will also help the offense with his ability to return kicks.
I could get behind that, even if it would be confusing as hell figuring out which Harris was playing CB for us. :tongue: From what others have been saying about DeCastro he seems an ideal choice, both in terms of general power run blocking I like from guards and that Fox likes from offenses.

We definitely need someone to step up for Goodman though. He turns in a great play every other game, but in between there are half a dozen or more awful ones. He got us a FG but cost us at least one TD Sunday, and that's not a net gain, especially when it forced Champ to come off Shiancoe to cover a guy I've barely heard of despite following the Vikings.

I see a lot of folks saying MLB, but it seems to me that a LB corps consisting of DJ/Woodyard at Will, Miller/Mays at Mike and Haggan/Mays at Sam would be scary as Hell. I might wait another year for Miller to get the reads and coverage ability to start at Mike, but the "defensive QB" has the same problems there as the offenses: However good a rookie is he's not likely to be better than what we've got, and expecting him to be more NFL ready at the start of his rookie year than the guy starting now is absurd.

[catfish]

Given that we have Willis under contract and Lance Ball, who has filled in veery nicely when needed, I actually wouldn't hate us taking a guy like Demps in round 3. A 3rd down guy who could be an outlet for Tebow would do great things for this offense. And it's not just he's a Gator to go along w/ Tebow. I just think we have our bruisers. A dynamic playmaker would add yet another dimension to our less than typical offense.

as a gator fan I would take Rainey over Demps, same basic north/south speed, but Rainey is much quicker/elusive

[Superchop 7]

James is the next Sproles, look at San Diego without Sproles.....big difference.

And......Sproles is still kicking tail in another offense.....his skill set translates to any team.

I remember Sproles getting 317 all purpose yards against us, I remember thinking.....we need a guy like that......luckily......a guy like that is in this draft.

[wayninja]

Since we are going to win the superbowl, I think the position we take first is hands on ankles.

[Dzone]

We might have to replace Clady. He continues to decline. He has a bum knee. He is a flag magnet.

[LTC Pain]

Quad all the post to take BPA.

Keep in mind we should have Squid and Ty Warren back next season.

BPA but I hope it's a CB, RB or DT.

[Joel]

We might have to replace Clady. He continues to decline. He has a bum knee. He is a flag magnet.
I would have said, "he has a bum knee, so he's declined and is a flag magnet." Let's wait to see him next year rather than spending a high pick on a tackle for the fourth time in five years. If he still sucks in TC, find a FA.

Quad all the post to take BPA.

Keep in mind we should have Squid and Ty Warren back next season.

BPA but I hope it's a CB, RB or DT.
BPA with a playoff pick is a sucker bet; the "best" players are gone, and the best REMAINING don't improve rosters unless they also fill serious needs. Meanwhile, many great players are still available for real needs at key positions, even late in the first round. Best Player Available only makes sense when 1) your pick is so high nearly all top talent will still be present and 2) a star player at ANY position is a big upgrade. For example, LB last year: We had NOTHING at MLB; at this point, drafting another LB would probably mean dropping a quality player like Haggan or Woodyard while continuing to ignore embarrassing liabilities starting at C, LG and #2 CB.

A playoff team no longer needs any help it can get, nor can it get the best players; it should target the relatively few urgent needs standing between it and winning/defending a championship. A crappy team DOES need all the help it can get AND have access to top talent; it should exploit that rare vital opportunity. Folks who always say, "draft BPA" OR "draft need" are right 50% of the time, but folks who say, "draft need when you suck and draft BPA when you're good" are ALWAYS wrong. Draft talent when you suck and need when you're good; for a more thorough explanation of why, read The Hidden Game of Footballs chapter on "The Draft Dodge."

I know the Packers always draft BPA; that made sense with the truly awful teams Favres last years. I'm fine with them drafting Clay Matthews' backup in the first round, because I despise the team and enjoy its losses.

[rcsodak]

I will add on to Horse....

BPA as long as its DT or CB or DE or ILB...Whoever is the best thats there.


I personally think it needs to be DE or CB, probably CB, but I want the BPA!



We have seen how bad our CBs are and we saw yesterday how badly we missed VON...So if he or Doom were to get hurt next year...Yeah, we need another heater to fire at the QB.

But DT is a huge need to collapse the pocket and stuff the run and so is CB and ILB.




If its not one of those 4 positions I might go slightly postal on something.
You could have 3 1st rd cb's and still get toasted if you're unable to pressure the QB. Thus, Dline is STILL, as it has been the last umpteen years, the #1 need.

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[rcsodak]

CB, G, WR. Probably in that order, though even after the good game Demaryius Thomas had catching wide open passes it still seems like our WR talent drops off fast after Decker (much like our CBs after Champ.) The only one of our guards I really like though is Kuper, and he's not a huge guy, so it would be nice to pickup a big powerful LG to open holes for McGahee. Grabbing a really great RT and moving Franklin to G is an option, but only if he's a REALLY great tackle (which probably won't be available at our draft spot.) As much trouble as Franklin has had in pass protection this year I really don't want to go through another season with a rookie protecting Tebows blind side.

Need over talent is definitely the way to go at our spot though, so I like how you're thinking. Find those missing pieces to put us over the top, don't look for the gems that are usually long gone by the #20 pick.

I could get behind that, even if it would be confusing as hell figuring out which Harris was playing CB for us. :tongue: From what others have been saying about DeCastro he seems an ideal choice, both in terms of general power run blocking I like from guards and that Fox likes from offenses.

We definitely need someone to step up for Goodman though. He turns in a great play every other game, but in between there are half a dozen or more awful ones. He got us a FG but cost us at least one TD Sunday, and that's not a net gain, especially when it forced Champ to come off Shiancoe to cover a guy I've barely heard of despite following the Vikings.

I see a lot of folks saying MLB, but it seems to me that a LB corps consisting of DJ/Woodyard at Will, Miller/Mays at Mike and Haggan/Mays at Sam would be scary as Hell. I might wait another year for Miller to get the reads and coverage ability to start at Mike, but the "defensive QB" has the same problems there as the offenses: However good a rookie is he's not likely to be better than what we've got, and expecting him to be more NFL ready at the start of his rookie year than the guy starting now is absurd.
:lol:
Miller at Mike?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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[jhildebrand]

MLB, OL, CB or DT.

MLB-Burfict, Te'o, Hightower
OL-DeCastro, Reiff, Glenn
CB-Jenkins, Kirkpatrick, Dennard
DT-Still, Poe

Gimme any of these names and I am a happy dude. I believe our team will be improved considerably.

Love Te'o

[Joel]

:lol:
Miller at Mike?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Still don't see why that's so funny. He's big and fast enough; he just needs to learn to read offenses and cover better. Most rookies do, thus, much as if we dumped Tebow and drafted a QB, a Mike drafted next year MIGHT be as prepared by the end of next season as Miller is NOW--or a total bust. I'd prefer Miller to a rookie there next year, with Haggan at Sam and Mays backing both. DJ and Woodyard lock down Will and we spend our first day picks on much greater and more immediate needs like CB, G and WR.

[DenBronx]

We desperately need a CB.

[hamrob]

This is how I see our needs:

CB
MLB
DT
RB
BUQB

Of course, this will all depend on what happens in free agency! Also, do we think that Nate Irving can improve and be an upgrade over Mays in the middle? I like Mays, but I really think his range is lacking, he's strictly a straight line guy. Right now, considering we will probably be dafting in the mid 20's, I would say that guys like the following will be our targets.

Burfict
Dennard
Te'o
Thompson
Kuechly
Hosely
Worthy

As for Oline, I think our line has really come together. This is the first year that they have all played together as a group and they are starting to gell. Yes, we could use better depth, but we can get that in the 4th/5th round ala Kuper.

[hamrob]

Still don't see why that's so funny. He's big and fast enough; he just needs to learn to read offenses and cover better. Most rookies do, thus, much as if we dumped Tebow and drafted a QB, a Mike drafted next year MIGHT be as prepared by the end of next season as Miller is NOW--or a total bust. I'd prefer Miller to a rookie there next year, with Haggan at Sam and Mays backing both. DJ and Woodyard lock down Will and we spend our first day picks on much greater and more immediate needs like CB, G and WR.If we dump TEBOW? Dude crawl out from under that rock! Tebow has too much potential and makes too much $$ for the Organization, for us to dump him. Won't happen einstein! :tsk:

[wayninja]

If we dump TEBOW? Dude crawl out from under that rock! Tebow has too much potential and makes too much $$ for the Organization, for us to dump him. Won't happen einstein! :tsk:

Are you even reading posts or just missile locking onto anything Tebow and rapidly pressing the fire button?

[WARHORSE]

I like the strategy from last year............can they come in and start?

BPA

[rcsodak]

Still don't see why that's so funny. He's big and fast enough; he just needs to learn to read offenses and cover better. Most rookies do, thus, much as if we dumped Tebow and drafted a QB, a Mike drafted next year MIGHT be as prepared by the end of next season as Miller is NOW--or a total bust. I'd prefer Miller to a rookie there next year, with Haggan at Sam and Mays backing both. DJ and Woodyard lock down Will and we spend our first day picks on much greater and more immediate needs like CB, G and WR.
So tell me, how does he press the qb fom the Mike, in a 43......thw REASON the got him in the 1st place.

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[Dzone]

Trent Richardson...dude squats 7 and benches 420..too bad we wont have a shot at him at 32nd

[rcsodak]

I like the strategy from last year............can they come in and start?

BPA

This^!

Its not like this team is "loaded" for craps sake.

Just because they're eaking out last minute wins versus beat up teams DOESNT take them out of BPA status. Good grief, it wasnt a month ago when people were saying the Dline sucked, the secondary was a sieve, the Oline couldnt block.

This team STILL needs an infusion of talent....EVERYWHERE.

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[sneakers]

We certainly will have our Fullback position secured. :lol:

[SR]

Corner. Gotta draft our future shut down corner first. If Ty Warren comes back and Thomas and Bunkley stay with the team our DT concerns can wait for another year. We don't need a DE. We don't need a LB. Don't "need" a safety unless Dawkins retires or goes elsewhere. Don't need any OL, RB, WR, QB, TE, etc. We will NEED a corner very soon. Goodman has had a couple of very key interceptions this year, but he gets TORCHED often. Rahim Moore I think will be a bust, but Quintin Carter will be legit. I think CB is our biggest place of need as of right now.

[SR]

Still don't see why that's so funny. He's big and fast enough; he just needs to learn to read offenses and cover better. Most rookies do, thus, much as if we dumped Tebow and drafted a QB, a Mike drafted next year MIGHT be as prepared by the end of next season as Miller is NOW--or a total bust. I'd prefer Miller to a rookie there next year, with Haggan at Sam and Mays backing both. DJ and Woodyard lock down Will and we spend our first day picks on much greater and more immediate needs like CB, G and WR.

If Von moves to MLB his talents as a pass rusher will be wasted. He isn't big enough...he's only 230LBS. Miller is an OLB and that's what he'll be forever. You need someone big and mean as a MLB like Ray Lewis. Miller's talents are best suited as a pass rushing LB a la Joey Porter or Clay Matthews.

[bcbronc]

I feel this team is perfectly situated to go BPA, maybe with one or two positional exclusions.

DE - Doom and Ayers both have holes in their game but are versatile enough to make a 3 man rotation work.

DT - doubt we go this way, but no one would complain if we did. Not sure the class makes it worth while, and we do get Big Vick back from IR next season. Surprisingly, first time in a decade I don't see it as a glaring need. But if BPA, no issues with the pick.

OLB - Miller isn't going to be upgraded, but Haggans, DJ and Woodyard can be. All having solid seasons, but none are really what I'd call difference makers. I'd have zero issues bringing in another stud OLB.

MLB - love Mays as a between-the-ends plugger, but a 43 needs a sideline-to-sideline guy to really get to the next level. No idea where the coaches stand with Irving at this point, and that possibly keeps MLB off the board in RD1. If they've given up on him, MLB would be right at the top of the needs list imo.

S - much like MLB, depends on how the coaches feel on the guys we picked last year. Dawkins could be done/gone at the end of the year, Carter hasn't been overly impressive and Moore isn't seeing the field. To have a truly great defense imo you need at least one great S.

CB - be my first choice, all other things being equal. We're in bad need of youth and starters here...imo Goodman is no longer playing at a #2 level...more like a good veteran #4. Harris and Squid...well we seem to have a UDFA step in and play well every year, but then crumble under expectations in coming years and who knows at this point re: Squid. Might make more sense to try to address the #2 CB via FA though. For me though, it's a no-brainer...if you have multiple players with the same grade and one's a CB, that's your selection.

QB - there's been plenty of discussion here, and regardless what your personal feeling is, if EFX aren't sold on Tebow and QB is BPA, might happen.

RB - imo our second biggest need behind CB (and just ahead of MLB, give or take Irving). Willis is 30 and fragile...I mean if he had broken a different bone he'd be out of the lineup right now. Moreno is even more fragile, and Ball is pretty meh. There's a big difference in our offense when McGahee is healthy and running hard, compared to when he's running with a wonky hammy. We need another younger, more durable, Willis on the roster.

WR - I'd probably leave this position off the RD 1 board. Decker, DT, and Royal are all young and shown glimpses. Willis is also having a nice season. I also feel with so many good WRs coming out of the second half of the draft, unless you're getting a Fitzgerald/Megatron type of package physically (and if you are, they'll be long gone before we're up) it makes no sense to take one in round 1.

TE - maybe this one comes off the board too. We took a few last year, plus added some as FA. So really depends again on how the coaches feel about the rooks development. But we could be in a good draft slot to take the best TE in the draft, so I probably leave it on the board.

OL - like TE, we could be in a good spot to get the best interior lineman available. I feel better than most I think about Beadles and would be happy to give our entire OL a second year (with an offseason). But OL is the most important part of an offense, so I couldn't fault the front office if they looked to make an upgrade.



I don't think "need" should ever be what you base a first round pick on. You should always go BPA, but you will have a few positions that you simply leave off the board because of the current make-up of the roster. It's not "I need a CB and a MLB, so I'm going to draft one in RD1" it's "I DON'T need a QB or a LT, so no way I draft one in RD1". Small, but important difference. Need should only come into play in RD1 if you have multiple players with the same grade...then do as the FO did last year and take the guy you feel can step in and start for you next season.

Need, imo, does play a larger part as the draft goes on. It becomes a lot harder to tell who the 345 player in the draft is compared to the 346, versus telling the 13 instead of the 14...so it makes sense to look to fill specific roster holes instead of trying to determine a true BPA in the later rounds.

[NameUsedBefore]

Luke Kuechly.

We already have cannon ball players at linebacker. Kuechly has the best instincts of any player coming out at his position. He might not be as fast or hard-hitting as Te'o or Burfict, but he reads plays before they even happen and I think that is precisely the sort of player Denver needs right now.

[sneakers]

All of them.

[Joel]

If we dump TEBOW? Dude crawl out from under that rock! Tebow has too much potential and makes too much $$ for the Organization, for us to dump him. Won't happen einstein! :tsk:
I'm aware; my point was that drafting a Mike to play that spot instead of Miller makes no more sense than drafting a QB to play THAT spot intead of Tebow, for most of the same reasons.

So tell me, how does he press the qb fom the Mike, in a 43......thw REASON the got him in the 1st place.
Um, the same way every other Mike does it, rushing by guards or between them when our DTs lock them up, then running over RBs, or shooting around end to overpower TEs and RBs the same way he does now and, once again, like every other good Mike in the League does it?

This^!

Its not like this team is "loaded" for craps sake.

Just because they're eaking out last minute wins versus beat up teams DOESNT take them out of BPA status. Good grief, it wasnt a month ago when people were saying the Dline sucked, the secondary was a sieve, the Oline couldnt block.

This team STILL needs an infusion of talent....EVERYWHERE.
I wouldn't say, "everywhere" (I like our LBs, obviously) but there's a good argument for "most everywhere," in which case BPA is reasonable. Too bad the "best" player at #20+ probably still isn't a star, but in terms of draft philosophy .500 is worse than 4-12 OR 12-4, because neither need nor BPA really suits the roster. In those cases the balance must be struck marginally in favor of one or the other, which is to say, was .500 under or overperforming? If the former, shore up holes you must fill to win a title; if the latter, get the best help possible as long as he's not a kicker. Realistically, the latter probably DOES describe Denver better now.

If Von moves to MLB his talents as a pass rusher will be wasted. He isn't big enough...he's only 230LBS. Miller is an OLB and that's what he'll be forever. You need someone big and mean as a MLB like Ray Lewis. Miller's talents are best suited as a pass rushing LB a la Joey Porter or Clay Matthews.
You realize Porter and Matthews are 3-4 OLBs, right? And that the 3-4 OLB is a LOT more like a 4-3 MLB than a 4-3 OLB? In fact, the OLB is basically the same thing to the 3-4 that the MLB is to the 4-3: A play maker in blitzing, run stopping and pass coverage. Half of what makes the 3-4 more appealing (and harder to staff) is needing twice as many of the kind of guys who play MLB in a 4-3 (the other half of the problem is finding a NT who can do the job of two DTs and not be in traction by Thanksgiving.)

As for size, Miller's gotten bigger, MUCH bigger than the 230 you cite from pre-season. Wikipedia lists him at 237 and ESPN lists him at 245, just 2 lbs. less than Porter. Matthews is listed at 255, so Miller wouldn't need much, if any size, to play MLB; even Brian Urlacher (who I consider more a prototypical Mike, given how often the Ravens switch to a 3-4 look with Lewis) goes 258. All those guys are big enough they can level RBs along with QB, fast enough to drop in coverage against RBs and TEs and smart enough to know when to do which. That last quality is ALL Miller lacks, and once he's got it he'll be a devastating MLB.

We may not move him to Mike, and he's probably not ready to be a Pro Bowler there, but we COULD, and he would reach that level quickly, probably by the end of next season. You guys make it sound like Mikes never blitz, or only succeed when they do by overpowering a pair of guards who have 70 pounds apiece on them. The middle is still the shortest path to the QB, which is why safeties tend to go that way when they blitz, and get there with disturbing frequency despite rarely weighing >220.

[Joel]

I feel this team is perfectly situated to go BPA, maybe with one or two positional exclusions.

DE - Doom and Ayers both have holes in their game but are versatile enough to make a 3 man rotation work.
I like them both a lot in a 4-3. Doom could be better against the run but isn't horrible and it's not his primary responsibility; the opposite in every respect is true for Ayers.

DT - doubt we go this way, but no one would complain if we did. Not sure the class makes it worth while, and we do get Big Vick back from IR next season. Surprisingly, first time in a decade I don't see it as a glaring need. But if BPA, no issues with the pick.
Yeah, I feel 10X better about our DTs than any time since Keith Traylor left; it would not be my first pick given all our other huge holes.

OLB - Miller isn't going to be upgraded, but Haggans, DJ and Woodyard can be. All having solid seasons, but none are really what I'd call difference makers. I'd have zero issues bringing in another stud OLB.
DJ and Woodyard are both great Wills; they'd suck anywhere else (as DJ proved trying to play Sam and Mike.) Haggan is a great Sam if you don't expect a pick six every week. I wouldn't touch an OLB.


MLB - love Mays as a between-the-ends plugger, but a 43 needs a sideline-to-sideline guy to really get to the next level. No idea where the coaches stand with Irving at this point, and that possibly keeps MLB off the board in RD1. If they've given up on him, MLB would be right at the top of the needs list imo.
Between Miller and Mays, Irving is almost irrelevant unless he outplays both this offseason. Start Miller at Mike unless he looks lost, Haggan at Sam and Mays behind both. I wouldn't touch a MLB either.

S - much like MLB, depends on how the coaches feel on the guys we picked last year. Dawkins could be done/gone at the end of the year, Carter hasn't been overly impressive and Moore isn't seeing the field. To have a truly great defense imo you need at least one great S.
The only things I've seen Carter do are make a fool of himself after the Chargers game and go out with cramps during the Vikings game. Color me unimpressed, and we need an answer when our 38 year old safety retires. That answer could be "Champ Bailey," who's no spring chicken himself, but only if we have two other solid CBs instead of none.

CB - be my first choice, all other things being equal. We're in bad need of youth and starters here...imo Goodman is no longer playing at a #2 level...more like a good veteran #4. Harris and Squid...well we seem to have a UDFA step in and play well every year, but then crumble under expectations in coming years and who knows at this point re: Squid. Might make more sense to try to address the #2 CB via FA though. For me though, it's a no-brainer...if you have multiple players with the same grade and one's a CB, that's your selection.
I like Harris, but am not yet convinced he's the long term answer as a starting CB; Goodman isn't even the short term answer. This is most peoples top priority with good reason.

QB - there's been plenty of discussion here, and regardless what your personal feeling is, if EFX aren't sold on Tebow and QB is BPA, might happen.
There's almost ZERO chance a QB capable of taking Tebows job will be available at our pick. IF we get one, it will be as Tebows backup, and probably not even the first day, let alone the first round.

RB - imo our second biggest need behind CB (and just ahead of MLB, give or take Irving). Willis is 30 and fragile...I mean if he had broken a different bone he'd be out of the lineup right now. Moreno is even more fragile, and Ball is pretty meh. There's a big difference in our offense when McGahee is healthy and running hard, compared to when he's running with a wonky hammy. We need another younger, more durable, Willis on the roster.
Injuries happen, especially at RB, but he keeps starting. I'd really like a burner with moves, as we hoped Moreno would be. We've had no truly feared runner since Portis; the absence is painfully apparent.

WR - I'd probably leave this position off the RD 1 board. Decker, DT, and Royal are all young and shown glimpses. Willis is also having a nice season. I also feel with so many good WRs coming out of the second half of the draft, unless you're getting a Fitzgerald/Megatron type of package physically (and if you are, they'll be long gone before we're up) it makes no sense to take one in round 1.
I like Decker and Willis, but am unsure Willis is a #1-2. Royal and Thomas stay hurt; Thomas' "glimpses" were one game early last year and one last week. I want more than a good game every 18 months from a #1-2 WR.

TE - maybe this one comes off the board too. We took a few last year, plus added some as FA. So really depends again on how the coaches feel about the rooks development. But we could be in a good draft slot to take the best TE in the draft, so I probably leave it on the board.
I'm liking Fells; if we got a TE I'd want a first rate blocker, and a blocking TE in the first round seems like a bad idea.

OL - like TE, we could be in a good spot to get the best interior lineman available. I feel better than most I think about Beadles and would be happy to give our entire OL a second year (with an offseason). But OL is the most important part of an offense, so I couldn't fault the front office if they looked to make an upgrade.
We'll just have to agree to disagree about our guards. ;)

I don't think "need" should ever be what you base a first round pick on. You should always go BPA, but you will have a few positions that you simply leave off the board because of the current make-up of the roster. It's not "I need a CB and a MLB, so I'm going to draft one in RD1" it's "I DON'T need a QB or a LT, so no way I draft one in RD1". Small, but important difference. Need should only come into play in RD1 if you have multiple players with the same grade...then do as the FO did last year and take the guy you feel can step in and start for you next season.

Need, imo, does play a larger part as the draft goes on. It becomes a lot harder to tell who the 345 player in the draft is compared to the 346, versus telling the 13 instead of the 14...so it makes sense to look to fill specific roster holes instead of trying to determine a true BPA in the later rounds.
Draft need with few needs and talent with many; ALWAYS doing any one things is a bad idea for coordinators and GMs alike. When needs are easy to target and prevented last years championship, as well as when the best players at nearly all positions will be gone before your pick, eliminate those few critical needs. When nothing short of a kicker would be a wasted pick for your awful team, and your draft spot insures the best talent will still be out there, draft talent.

We can't get Luck this year, but may have "gotten luck" LAST year because Carolina wanted a QB--ANY QB--badly enough to spend the #1 pick. That let us spend the #2 pick on the "best player who isn't Cam Newton." I'm not convinced Newton has the ability to be a passer first and runner second, in which case Miller will still be going to Pro Bowls for us long after Carolina cuts Newton. On the other hand, had they gone to the Conference Championship and lost solely because their QB turned the ball over 4 times, drafting a QB would've made perfect sense, even if he weren't the best guy in the draft.

[BroncoTech]

Wideouts who can catch the freakin ball. Tired of watching passes go through hands.

[rcsodak]

I think QB is back to priority 1.
You cant expect 16gms against teams with poor defenses and injuries to their starting qb's.

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[Joel]

I think QB is back to priority 1.
You cant expect 16gms against teams with poor defenses and injuries to their starting qb's.
You shouldn't have to expect half a dozen drops from your starting WRs in must win games either. Tebow had a handful of bad throws, but no more than that, and even the one pick when he tried to force one was a play DBs only make 5% of the time. He still needs to go through his progressions and find open guys faster, and held the ball too long a few times today, but he's still getting better. I don't see any available rookie being more ready or having a higher ceiling, so I don't see why we should switch.

Especially after todays plays pretty thoroughly vindicates my interest in G and WR (our CBs may actually have improved when Harris replaced Goodman though; I liked his play.) Three guys getting through the middle on a FG that nearly cost us the game and would've prevented OT. Decker and Thomas dropping balls like it was going out of style, one of them an easy deep TD that was PERFECTLY thrown. Drafting a QB won't fix any of that.

[dogfish]

Wideouts who can catch the freakin ball. Tired of watching passes go through hands.

it was really frustrating today. . . but they did get them when we absolutely had to have them, and IMO the group should be better next year for playing through their growing pains on the field this year, while also developing timing and chemistry with tim. . .

or, they aren't good enough, and they won't. . . but i'd rather see us take a lineman, a corner and/or a RB with our first few picks, and hopefully re-sign royal as a full-time returner and part time slot guy if the price is right. . . i'd ideally like to see them add one more vet receiver (willis makes five) that does offer a more reliable pair of hands as a chain mover/third down guy, but i wouldn't burn another high draft pick on the position without giving thomas another year. . . wideouts frequently take a few years to develop, and DT has obviously been slowed quite a bit by injuries. . . i'm not saying i think he'll be the guy for sure-- but i'd rather draft an OT/RB and a MLB/DL with our first two picks while we see where the current group can go with another year together, both in the scheme, in the league, and playing together. . . JMO. . .

[bcbronc]

it was really frustrating today. . . but they did get them when we absolutely had to have them, and IMO the group should be better next year for playing through their growing pains on the field this year, while also developing timing and chemistry with tim. . .

or, they aren't good enough, and they won't. . . but i'd rather see us take a lineman, a corner and/or a RB with our first few picks, and hopefully re-sign royal as a full-time returner and part time slot guy if the price is right. . . i'd ideally like to see them add one more vet receiver (willis makes five) that does offer a more reliable pair of hands as a chain mover/third down guy, but i wouldn't burn another high draft pick on the position without giving thomas another year. . . wideouts frequently take a few years to develop, and DT has obviously been slowed quite a bit by injuries. . . i'm not saying i think he'll be the guy for sure-- but i'd rather draft an OT/RB and a MLB/DL with our first two picks while we see where the current group can go with another year together, both in the scheme, in the league, and playing together. . . JMO. . .

I don't mind taking a WR, just not early Big, physical, athletic WRs are pretty much a dime a dozen in the fourth round or later these days.

[iLands]

Now that we have a Tim Tebow at Quarterback, we need a Tim Tebow at Tight end.

I agree.

We are out of a tip-top round one slot unless we have a very specific need filled.

Luckily, the Broncos have the ability to grab the best player FOR THEM in the draft.

We have the ability to give this offense EXACTLY what it demands.

We want a receiver that will catch the ball.

We want someone potent on the offensive line.

We want someone that can run the ball through sheer size.

We want someone who can exploit the mismatches our offense creates through Tebow and our diverse playbook.

We want the one man who will make Tebow the most dangerous.

We don't want Luck. We can't get Luck. We want the guy that regularly does all of the above and is the biggest reason that Luck is able to shine.

We want Coby Fleener.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1689594/coby-fleener

- Six feet, six inches tall
- 245
- He has intangibles, upstanding character, emotional maturity, and performs. (Three touchdown receptions in the Orange Bowl?)
- We'll be able to get him at our draft position and many think he could be the ranked the best of his position at the combine.

This is a rare opportunity. Think about it. Tebow next to Coby Fleener is frightening.

He blocks like a champ. He's amazing offensively. He adds a perfect dimension to the option.

Doesn't it just seem to fit when you think about it?

You can't teach size like this.
He gives us protection and blocking which we need.
He receives deep which we need.
He is the perfect security blanket for Tebow.
He's also clutch, which seems to fit like a glove.

Anyone else think this is possible?

[Joel]

I don't follow college, but if Fleener plays as advertised, he'd be a big asset. TEs have to block as well as catch, but most of them make rosters by doing one well enough to make up for their substandard ability to do the other. You have "receiving" TEs who do little more than briefly get in the way as blockers, or "blocking" TEs who run a 6.0 40 and have hands like bricks. A guy who routinely takes on multiple blockers AND has the speed to be a deep threat along with the great hands to make it count would be a big help.

A great blocker and a great receiver are both big needs for this team, but obviously a TE who's both would go a long way toward addressing both with a single player. Just as with a back who can block, catch and run, we wouldn't have to rotate him in and out depending on whether his skillset is useful for a given play/down/distance, telegraphing our playcalls to opponents. IF Fleener lives up to his billing and IF he's available at our pick he sounds like a good first round choice who might not be there at #50+. Tight ends are increasingly in demand, and a player who performs all TE duties equally well would be even more so.

The one reservation I would have is that an outside blocker won't help our interior blocking, which is a much greater concern for me than our outside blocking will be when Clady's healthy and Franklin has a full seasona and off season under his belt. It should be understood in all this that DB should be a top priority, though if Goodman's out long and Harris plays well in relief of him, replacing Dawkins after retirement would be a bigger issue than replacing Goodman. So far, all our young safeties look pretty awful.

[weazel]

reverse cowgirl

[CoachChaz]

Jeff Fuller

[SmilinAssasSin27]

We just drafted 2 TEs, one of which is one of those oft-coveted converted basketball players. The other actually produced well in college. Neitehr had the luxury of an NFL off-season due to the lockout. I'd like to give them at least 1 more year before we look at the TE spot.

[T.K.O.]

32nd would be nice:D:salute:

[Joel]

We just drafted 2 TEs, one of which is one of those oft-coveted converted basketball players. The other actually produced well in college. Neitehr had the luxury of an NFL off-season due to the lockout. I'd like to give them at least 1 more year before we look at the TE spot.
I'd like to be throwing to them more, too, especially with dropsy running rampant in the receiving corps (MEDIC! :tongue:) But how well do they block? We have a desperate need for good blocking right now.

[weazel]

Cincinnati Bow Tie?

[Cugel]

So, the only bad thing about all this awesomeness is that we clearly won't be in the top 5 of draft picks anymore, as most of us envisioned over a month ago. But we'll have a first round pick nonetheless. I still want to see if Tebow can pass consistently over the course of this season, but I think taking a QB in the first round is moving progressively more and more as being off the table, especially since we're heading into a draft position where all the "franchise" ones will be gone (let's face it, Elway and company don't want anymore big projects or could-be's). So, wondering what people think a good pick would be?

I still think DT is a big need; Bunkley has been playing well, and Thomas is worth having on the roster, but we still cannot contain that up-the-gut run consistently, as Adrian Peterson (oh wait...) showed last night. We already have an exciting defense, but probably not at the level of elite, and some of the excitement (like Dawkins, Bailey) have short careers ahead of them, so secondary seems like another worthy pick. It's too early to call Rahim Moore a wasted pick, and I suspect he will have a place on the team, but I don't have high expectations for him as an every down threat at safety.

Actually, a QB is a perfectly good choice for the Broncos in the first round. They will probably be picking somewhere around #25 so it would be a late 1st rounder anyway. A late 1st round pick would be more of a development QB who would come in and back up Tebow. If they saw someone they liked who wasn't one of the top 4 or 5 QBs but who had some nice abilities, then they might well take him.

Other than that, you can't say who will be available late in the first round. CB, DT, WR, RB, OG or C and LB are the worst needs. But, they can't reach for anybody and if no DT prospect falls to their spot they won't take one.

The Broncos need so many players they will have NO trouble finding some help in the late 1st round. LB might be a nice choice at this spot, or OG or WR. There are usually some good WRs available later in the first and some top G's fall to that spot. They don't need any OTs which is good because they tend to get drafted higher.

And if they're not replacing Tebow they don't need to move up into the top 10 to grab a QB. So they can afford to sit back and see who falls. It won't be a blue chip player like Von Miller, but it could be a solid starter who can come in and contribute in the rotation right away like Orlando Franklin did.

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by hamrob View Post
If we dump TEBOW? Dude crawl out from under that rock! Tebow has too much potential and makes too much $$ for the Organization, for us to dump him. Won't happen einstein!

Tebow has played his way onto next year's roster. But he does NOT make "too much $$ for the Organization to dump him." In fact the Broncos have paid Tebow almost all his guaranteed money already, including his $6.2 million roster bonus (http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/den/).

Next year all he's due is his salary for 2012: $1,942,500, but the only guaranteed money is the pro-rated portion of his signing bonus. But most of that was paid this year as a delayed "roster bonus" in September 2010.

Tebow actually has LESS guaranteed money in his contract than Moreno or Thomas! (He does have more in "incentive" bonuses some of which he might earn. But without more info, it's hard to calculate those).

In any case his salary is not out of line for a BACKUP QB let alone a starter. Kyle Orton earned close to $9 million this year.

[Jsteve01]

If you look at Fox's teams. Historically they've not placed huge emphasis on early round DTs and I don't expect that to chance much this year. With the way the Bunkley has produced and the resurgence of Thomas and McBean I'd fully expect tackle to drop on our list of priorities. But as I said this morning. If a DT is hands down the best prospect on the board in your slot then you definitely take him.

[Goose23]

I think CB is the first need Broncos should fill. Depending on how strong Denver closes it out this year, they might be looking at guys like Dennard (Nebraska) or Minnifield (Virginia).

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Looks like we're now picking in the 20s...prime spot for that DT or MLB. This is where a lot of the value will be. W/ Te'o going back to school, I like Hightower of Bama for MLB. Not sold on the small, slow BC MLB. If Devon Still is there for us, I'd have to take a long, hard look.

[Joel]

Bleah. With desperate needs at CB, G and WR picking a DT who wasn't a likely Pro Bowler or (far worse) a LB in the first would deeply disappoint me. The only thing a Mike adds that we lack is slightly better pass coverage over the middle and savvy diagnosing offensive playcalls. No rookie do either well before the end of next year (or more likely the following one.) By then I expect Miller to be calling in airstrikes on opposing offenses.