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Thestrategist1
12-05-2011, 01:54 PM
7 and 1 half games ago, it was declared that this experiment was an 11 game audition by my calculations he has already earned the job just by winning more then he has lost.

Last night, I was watching the Fox sports zone, Les Shapiro said "Hes not sold yet" and Chad Brown said "Its all luck" and I said to myself, This is the NFL there is no such thing as luck period. Even 3rd string guys are the best of the best.

I watched first take today and the guy opposite Bayless could say nothing but negative about Tebow and there still seems to be an all around consencus that Tebow still cant be a QB at the NFL Level.

I have heard he cant win at this level, now hes 8-3, He cant throw but he posted 66% comp pct w/ a 149QBR, I heard he cant win if teams get up by 21pts but now he has,Now we have a firm hold on the AFC West lead with 4 games left to go and are poised to run right into the Playoffs with a home game to start off.

Im confused and a little discruntled by all that is surrounding Mr Tim Tebow my question to everyone is, What will it take to actually commit to him long term?

We can throw stats out and he hangs with the best and I dont believe a 2nd or 3rd year QB that has the winning record that he has so far, what gives? Why so much dismantling of a young player who is far exceeding anyones expectations at this point?

The Glue Factory
12-05-2011, 02:06 PM
I heard he cant win if teams get up by 21pts but now he has.

I don't believe We've been down by 21 at any point in Tebow's career. I believe 17 last year is the most he's been down and won. Given that, almost all NFL QBs would be hard pressed to win from a 21 pt deficit, so that's a little bit of a double standard by the media.

I'm still not completely sold on Tebow but yesterday's showing is bringing me around. I want to see what he does against Chicago's D and NE. Buffalo and KC don't look like a good test of his ability.


So what's it going to take before the MSM come around on him? Maybe never, they'll likely get increasingly ridiculous as they continually increase the standards to accept Tebow as a legitimate NFL QB.

At some point it might look like this:
"But Tebow can't hurdle skyscrapers in a single bound!"
"Monatana didn't, Elway didn't, P. Manning, didn't. What QB can?"
"Doesn't matter! Once Tebow hurdles a skyscraper in a single bound, he'll be a legitimate NFL QB."

Zweems56
12-05-2011, 02:07 PM
7 and 1 half games ago, it was declared that this experiment was an 11 game audition by my calculations he has already earned the job just by winning more then he has lost.

Last night, I was watching the Fox sports zone, Les Shapiro said "Hes not sold yet" and Chad Brown said "Its all luck" and I said to myself, This is the NFL there is no such thing as luck period. Even 3rd string guys are the best of the best.

I watched first take today and the guy opposite Bayless could say nothing but negative about Tebow and there still seems to be an all around consencus that Tebow still cant be a QB at the NFL Level.

I have heard he cant win at this level, now hes 8-3, He cant throw but he posted 66% comp pct w/ a 149QBR, I heard he cant win if teams get up by 21pts but now he has,Now we have a firm hold on the AFC West lead with 4 games left to go and are poised to run right into the Playoffs with a home game to start off.

Im confused and a little discruntled by all that is surrounding Mr Tim Tebow my question to everyone is, What will it take to actually commit to him long term?

We can throw stats out and he hangs with the best and I dont believe a 2nd or 3rd year QB that has the winning record that he has so far, what gives? Why so much dismantling of a young player who is far exceeding anyones expectations at this point?

The answer to your question is a good finish this season, and a winning season with a decent personal showing for Tebow next season. Maybe not to this degree, but just about every young quarterback goes through this shit every year. Then they either burn out, or they turn it on in years 2 and 3 and become the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

chazoe60
12-05-2011, 02:11 PM
People are so invested in their original proclimations that this kid could never possibly make it as an NFL QB that they're holding on til the bitter end hoping to eventually be proven right.



BTW, pay no attention to Les Shapiro. Dude is a complete fool and I don't understand how he got a radio show. So many of Denver's local sports guys are complete idiots. Shapiro and Alfred Williams are the two dumbest people in the state.

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:11 PM
I don't believe We've been down by 21 at any point in Tebow's career. I believe 17 last year is the most he's been down and won. Given that, almost all NFL QBs would be hard pressed to win from a 21 pt deficit, so that's a little bit of a double standard by the media.

I'm still not completely sold on Tebow but yesterday's showing is bringing me around. I want to see what he does against Chicago's D and NE. Buffalo and KC don't look like a good test of his ability.


So what's it going to take before the MSM come around on him? Maybe never, they'll likely get increasingly ridiculous as they continually increase the standards to accept Tebow as a legitimate NFL QB.

At some point it might look like this:
"But Tebow can't hurdle skyscrapers in a single bound!"
"Monatana didn't, Elway didn't, P. Manning, didn't. What QB can?"
"Doesn't matter! Once Tebow hurdles a skyscraper in a single bound, he'll be a legitimate NFL QB."

dont forget when he actually leaps the skyscraper it will be because it is the shortest skyscraper in Denver + Denver has thin air

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:12 PM
7 and 1 half games ago, it was declared that this experiment was an 11 game audition by my calculations he has already earned the job just by winning more then he has lost.

Last night, I was watching the Fox sports zone, Les Shapiro said "Hes not sold yet" and Chad Brown said "Its all luck" and I said to myself, This is the NFL there is no such thing as luck period. Even 3rd string guys are the best of the best.

I watched first take today and the guy opposite Bayless could say nothing but negative about Tebow and there still seems to be an all around consencus that Tebow still cant be a QB at the NFL Level.

I have heard he cant win at this level, now hes 8-3, He cant throw but he posted 66% comp pct w/ a 149QBR, I heard he cant win if teams get up by 21pts but now he has,Now we have a firm hold on the AFC West lead with 4 games left to go and are poised to run right into the Playoffs with a home game to start off.

Im confused and a little discruntled by all that is surrounding Mr Tim Tebow my question to everyone is, What will it take to actually commit to him long term?

We can throw stats out and he hangs with the best and I dont believe a 2nd or 3rd year QB that has the winning record that he has so far, what gives? Why so much dismantling of a young player who is far exceeding anyones expectations at this point?

Jon Ritchie is the guy pissing me off today...."HE ONLY COMPLETED 10 PASSES HE SUCKS!!!"

CoachChaz
12-05-2011, 02:12 PM
If his name was not Tim Tebow...it wouldnt be an issue. No one is riding Bradford's ass

Thestrategist1
12-05-2011, 02:13 PM
I don't believe We've been down by 21 at any point in Tebow's career. I believe 17 last year is the most he's been down and won. Given that, almost all NFL QBs would be hard pressed to win from a 21 pt deficit, so that's a little bit of a double standard by the media.

I'm still not completely sold on Tebow but yesterday's showing is bringing me around. I want to see what he does against Chicago's D and NE. Buffalo and KC don't look like a good test of his ability.


So what's it going to take before the MSM come around on him? Maybe never, they'll likely get increasingly ridiculous as they continually increase the standards to accept Tebow as a legitimate NFL QB.

At some point it might look like this:
"But Tebow can't hurdle skyscrapers in a single bound!"
"Monatana didn't, Elway didn't, P. Manning, didn't. What QB can?"
"Doesn't matter! Once Tebow hurdles a skyscraper in a single bound, he'll be a legitimate NFL QB."

I could care less about MSM, He has far exceeded any of my expectations and I cant believe us as fans could of asked for this much, when he was thrust into this situation but the bar gets set higher and higher with every win!!!! Its not fair for Tebow w/ Staffords and Bradfords epic fall from grace and those two were absolute sure fire "winners" as #1ovr picks, just doesnt seem fair sometimes!!!

CoachChaz
12-05-2011, 02:13 PM
Jon Ritchie is the guy pissing me off today...."HE ONLY COMPLETED 10 PASSES HE SUCKS!!!"

One of my younger brothers played high school ball against John Ritchie. He's always been a douchebag

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:15 PM
One of my younger brothers played high school ball against John Ritchie. He's always been a douchebag

he actually said he could have made the throws Tebow made by snapping it left handed through his legs

Northman
12-05-2011, 02:16 PM
I quit caring what guys like Les Shapiro and company think. They talk to get ratings and to make the fanatics get fired up and whine about it. My advice, quit worrying about what they say and just enjoy the games and the winning.

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:18 PM
yeah, but then what would we bitch about?...lots of time to kill before next Sunday

camdisco24
12-05-2011, 02:18 PM
he actually said he could have made the throws Tebow made by snapping it left handed through his legs

I just watched him on First Take and i'm almost 100% positive he didn't watch the game. Heck, based on some of his points I'm not even sure he looked at the stats sheet. :eek:

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:20 PM
I just watched him on First Take and i'm almost 100% positive he didn't watch the game. Heck, based on some of his points I'm not even sure he looked at the stats sheet. :eek:

he did come off as kind of a jackass, which I would forgive had he not gone on with Cowherd then Scott Van Pelt and said the same thing...I got the feeling that even Cowherd was ready to call him out, and he has been negative on Tebow all year

Thestrategist1
12-05-2011, 02:21 PM
I quit caring what guys like Les Shapiro and company think. They talk to get ratings and to make the fanatics get fired up and whine about it. My advice, quit worrying about what they say and just enjoy the games and the winning.

I am enjoying the wins but this whole thing started out as a simple show us what you got Timmy and now hes 6-1 as the starter and the debate rages on as though he hasnt proved anything, I just want us to commit to another year and end this rediculous argument. Its not like the 2013 draft class will be short QBs including but not limited too Matt Barkeley who will probly play another year at USC given the mass flooding of QBs in this draft class (4 top 10's)

Northman
12-05-2011, 02:22 PM
yeah, but then what would we bitch about?...lots of time to kill before next Sunday

There's still plenty to talk about as far as the team is concerned. Bitching about the yahoo's on radio and Tv is just silly to me. I dont care what those idiots say.

Northman
12-05-2011, 02:25 PM
I am enjoying the wins but this whole thing started out as a simple show us what you got Timmy and now hes 6-1 as the starter and the debate rages on as though he hasnt proved anything, I just want us to commit to another year and end this rediculous argument. Its not like the 2013 draft class will be short QBs including but not limited too Matt Barkeley who will probly play another year at USC given the mass flooding of QBs in this draft class (4 top 10's)

Where have you heard he wont get another year?

See, this is my problem with the overreaction from people listening to the media so much. Until you actually hear it from the horses mouth that Tim wont be back dont get all worked up about it. The team is just doing their thang and winning ballgames.

camdisco24
12-05-2011, 02:26 PM
There's still plenty to talk about as far as the team is concerned. Bitching about the yahoo's on radio and Tv is just silly to me. I dont care what those idiots say.

I never realized how horrible ESPN is until this year. Now I watch weekly just for a bit of comic relief.

Thestrategist1
12-05-2011, 02:26 PM
and even now I am not hearing what will be the deciding factor in what will end this debate just more higher expectations then he has already achieved. Good finish Playoffs was that the same expectations you had 7 weeks ago?

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:27 PM
There's still plenty to talk about as far as the team is concerned. Bitching about the yahoo's on radio and Tv is just silly to me. I dont care what those idiots say.

I will forgive you because of your profile pic, but you need to understand if you aren't bitching about stupid things you are missing half the fun :)

Northman
12-05-2011, 02:27 PM
I never realized how horrible ESPN is until this year. Now I watch weekly just for a bit of comic relief.

Oh yea, im listening to the Scott Van Pelt show at the moment. Heard some yahoo earlier saying Tebow isnt a great QB still and i just laughed. People are going to say what they want, im just worried about my team and thats it. Everything is exactly as you said, comical.

Zweems56
12-05-2011, 02:28 PM
If his name was not Tim Tebow...it wouldnt be an issue. No one is riding Bradford's ass

Rivers got shit for about 2 years for his poor delivery. Eventually the media just gets over it.

Northman
12-05-2011, 02:30 PM
and even now I am not hearing what will be the deciding factor in what will end this debate just more higher expectations then he has already achieved. Good finish Playoffs was that the same expectations you had 7 weeks ago?


All i know is that Elway and Fox said it the rest of the year would be an evaluation process of Tebow. So far they are living by that mantra while continuing to tell the media that Tim is improving week by week.

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:30 PM
and even now I am not hearing what will be the deciding factor in what will end this debate just more higher expectations then he has already achieved. Good finish Playoffs was that the same expectations you had 7 weeks ago?

Ditka layed the smack down on Hoge today.....Hoge went off on a rant about how Tebow sucks because he wouldn't be able to win a superbowl...Ditka ended the broadcast by saying "yeah he won't win the congressional medal of honor either"(basically he is a 2nd year player BFD he wont go to the superbowl) even the other talking heads are starting to paint Hoge as ridiculous.

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:32 PM
All i know is that Elway and Fox said it the rest of the year would be an evaluation process of Tebow. So far they are living by that mantra while continuing to tell the media that Tim is improving week by week.

as they should, I get the feeling they are committed even if they don't come out and say it....I read all sorts of positive indications from Fox and if Fox wants to go with Tebow I don't think he will be overruled

catfish
12-05-2011, 02:34 PM
Oh yea, im listening to the Scott Van Pelt show at the moment. Heard some yahoo earlier saying Tebow isnt a great QB still and i just laughed. People are going to say what they want, im just worried about my team and thats it. Everything is exactly as you said, comical.

I believe that would be Jon Ritchie...I am watching the televised version, you should see the look on SVP's face

NightTrainLayne
12-05-2011, 02:43 PM
Tebow got his shot, and it was labelled as an 11 game audition.

Has he played 11 games yet? No.

He is looking great, and I see a lot of improvement week to week. If he keeps that up, then great.

But there is something to be said about a time and sample size. We have this year to evaluate, let's take all the time we need.

jhildebrand
12-05-2011, 02:45 PM
These guys are a joke. If they actually knew anything they wouldn't be in front of a camera. They would be in a FO!

The problem is, for some reason with Tebow, so many felt it necessary to use definite's and finite terms when speaking about Tebow. Hoge was the worst of them. So many of them came out and took suc a hard line stance, possibly thinking it was a gimme to say I told you so, that now they have no way of backing down from it.

Alfred Williams is wacky but he tends to be right about a lot of stuff! I don't know why he is with Tebow but he did walk off the broadcast when the Broncos traded back to get Tebow.

Les Shapiro used to be THE GUY in this town. He is bitter from having been kicked to the curb. The guy is flat out a HUGE double standard especially when speaking of Tebow.

People say winning is all that matters and winning cures all. Tebow proves that is bull crap. If winning is all that mattered then it would be happy days around here. But apparently winning is all that matters at first, then you have to have the pretty stats and style points too. :rolleyes:

Thestrategist1
12-05-2011, 02:51 PM
Tebow got his shot, and it was labelled as an 11 game audition.

Has he played 11 games yet? No.

He is looking great, and I see a lot of improvement week to week. If he keeps that up, then great.

But there is something to be said about a time and sample size. We have this year to evaluate, let's take all the time we need.

So, 6-1 isnt good in your opinion huh? Cuz even if he lost every game from here on out this season he still comes out ahead!!!

NightTerror218
12-05-2011, 02:57 PM
So, 6-1 isnt good in your opinion huh? Cuz even if he lost every game from here on out this season he still comes out ahead!!!

He is improving and that is all that people ask for. You need to figure that right now people dont know how to prepare for TT. Given more time and tape he can produce the same or struggle and not be affective. Giving him more time will prove it. Right now I think he is doing good and producing towards wins. He is removing doubt and yesterdays game helped a lot more people feel better with him. 10-15 2 TDs and 202 yards. He almost had 3 Tds and still a couple drops but not as bad as last couple games. If he can keep that up, he should be solid for us for 10 years (given no injuries).

BTW: He needs to keep the offense producing points, 3rd down conversions need to be improved and sustaining drives.

Northman
12-05-2011, 03:00 PM
So, 6-1 isnt good in your opinion huh? Cuz even if he lost every game from here on out this season he still comes out ahead!!!

NTL didnt say anything about the record not being good.

Northman
12-05-2011, 03:02 PM
He is improving and that is all that people ask for. You need to figure that right now people dont know how to prepare for TT. Given more time and tape he can produce the same or struggle and not be affective. Giving him more time will prove it. Right now I think he is doing good and producing towards wins. He is removing doubt and yesterdays game helped a lot more people feel better with him. 10-15 2 TDs and 202 yards. He almost had 3 Tds and still a couple drops but not as bad as last couple games. If he can keep that up, he should be solid for us for 10 years (given no injuries).

BTW: He needs to keep the offense producing points, 3rd down conversions need to be improved and sustaining drives.

Indeed.

Vince Young was 8-5 as a starter his rookie year. Overall he has a 31-19 win/loss record but yet was signed as a backup to Vick this year. The FO is doing the right thing not make a determination right now and will allow it to play out this year and most likely next year.

NightTrainLayne
12-05-2011, 03:11 PM
So, 6-1 isnt good in your opinion huh? Cuz even if he lost every game from here on out this season he still comes out ahead!!!

Where did I say 6-1 isn't any good?

I was jumping up and down in my living room yesterday hollering and excited about every throw in the second half. Called out every Tebow hater alive. . .but I guess they probably didn't hear me.

Sure. .. even if he lost every other game this season he'd still have a winning record, but. . .how did he lose those games?

I fully expect for Tebow to get better each week, and progress and get better. We probably still lose one or two other games, but I think he's improving, and I think that after the season, he will have shown that he is the guy for next season, and possibly the future.

But why in the hell must we crown him right now? We don't even have a playoff spot locked up yet.

Why not see how he reacts and does over the next few weeks? See how he does in a playoff game if possible?

Waiting doesn't mean anything good or bad. It simply means that we're going to take all the time, and gather all the information we have before we have to make a decision.

That is known as being prudent, and doing your due diligence.

Grow up, and let Tebow do his job. .. . everything else will take care of itself.

Thestrategist1
12-05-2011, 04:13 PM
Indeed.

Vince Young was 8-5 as a starter his rookie year. Overall he has a 31-19 win/loss record but yet was signed as a backup to Vick this year. The FO is doing the right thing not make a determination right now and will allow it to play out this year and most likely next year.

The only reason Vince Young isnt starting in the NFL is his ability to deal with Media and Fan pressure and he would get in arguments and fights with his coaches, Those are the reasons he is not starting in the NFL period, terrible comparison...

:tsk:

Northman
12-05-2011, 04:30 PM
The only reason Vince Young isnt starting in the NFL is his ability to deal with Media and Fan pressure and he would get in arguments and fights with his coaches, Those are the reasons he is not starting in the NFL period, terrible comparison...

:tsk:


Doesnt matter what the reasons are, just shows that you can have a winning record and yet not be handed the starter position.

Chef Zambini
12-05-2011, 04:34 PM
]People are so invested in their original proclimations that this kid could never possibly make it as an NFL QB that they're holding on til the bitter end hoping to eventually be proven right. [/B]BTW, pay no attention to Les Shapiro. Dude is a complete fool and I don't understand how he got a radio show. So many of Denver's local sports guys are complete idiots. Shapiro and Alfred Williams are the two dumbest people in the state.

People are so invested in their original proclimations that this kid could never possibly make it as an NFL QB that they're holding on til the bitter end hoping to eventually be proven right.
IO dont know about your radio personalities but this comment is as true and factual as commentary about the sun rising in the east.
people are already binvested in their emotions on tebow, and few can find it in their make-up to be converted.

TEBOW is so polarizing compasses and GPS devices malfunction in his vicinity.

Chef Zambini
12-05-2011, 04:39 PM
whats it gonna take? thats the question somebody NEEDS to ask ELWAY! his response to that question is the only one that matters.
Something tells me that ELWAY wuill not allow himself to be prodded with that question, otherwise it would already be asked and answered.

Tned
12-05-2011, 04:45 PM
Im confused and a little discruntled by all that is surrounding Mr Tim Tebow my question to everyone is, What will it take to actually commit to him long term?



I'm not sure what the obsession that some people have with this "commit to Tebow long term" stuff.

They committed to him when they made him the starter. The fact is that in this league, most players are lucky if they get a shot to start, and then it's their job to keep the job. Even look at Leinart and Young. Their college careers & draft status got them a chance to start, and they failed and lost the starting gig. Ryan leaf, Brady Quinn and plenty of other examples.

Tebow got his chance to start, and so far has made the most of it. He's looked bad early in the run, but still did enough to win all the games except for the Lions.

If he plays the next five games as well as the last couple, hopefully improving some more, then he will go into next season as the favorite to start.

vandammage13
12-05-2011, 05:10 PM
I'm not sure what the obsession that some people have with this "commit to Tebow long term" stuff.

They committed to him when they made him the starter. The fact is that in this league, most players are lucky if they get a shot to start, and then it's their job to keep the job. Even look at Leinart and Young. Their college careers & draft status got them a chance to start, and they failed and lost the starting gig. Ryan leaf, Brady Quinn and plenty of other examples.

Tebow got his chance to start, and so far has made the most of it. He's looked bad early in the run, but still did enough to win all the games except for the Lions.

If he plays the next five games as well as the last couple, hopefully improving some more, then he will go into next season as the favorite to start.

If he shows improvement from the last two weeks and they continue to win, he won't just be the favorite, he'll be a lock.

Doesn't mean he won't be subject to losing the starting gig during the year, but there's no way he wouldn't be the Week 1 starter (barring injury) if he meets that criteria.