ILB already on our roster

[broncosinindy]

53 Koutouvides, Niko LB 6' 2" 238 27 5th Purdue UFA (SEA)-'08

57 Haggan, Mario LB 6' 3" 263 28 6th Mississippi State FA-'08

46 Larsen, Spencer FB/LB 6' 2" 240 24 R Arizona D6-'08

I think Mario looked Decent at the end of last year. Do you think he can make the transition to a 3-4? He has the size.

Niko was supposed to be a pretty good LB do you think the coaching staff can ressurect his game? maybe add some weight to his frame?

Spencer Larsen. I thought he looked good at times over pursued a few times but i think he can add some weight and be effective what doyou all think?

[NameUsedBefore]

Niko does about as well as his drunk counterpart in GTA IV. I've only seen him for a little bit but my goodness I don't think any player looked more utterly lost than him with maybe the possible exception of that HORRIBLE safety guy whose name I can never remember.

I don't remember enough of Haggan, to be honest.

And Larsen looked okay for what he is, which is a very unpolished, uncoached player switching between radically different positions. Definitely potential there and regardless of his ability he's obviously a sound utility player which are always needed.

[ApaOps5]

Niko should never have been on the roster. Well as a pure back special teamer but even then it was a desperate move.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Larsen!

[lex]

I think DJ will be the Will which is inside in the 3-4. The OLB is more of a blitzer which isnt DJs strength. I think we should go with someone whose skills are dissimilar to DJ and will compliment him...someone like Larsen. It would be great if Woodyard could put on about 10 lbs and play the Sam, too. Its too bad they signed DJ to that contract though. Maybe if he hates the 3-4, he'll want to renegotiate so he can leave.

[G_Money]

Larsen can throw on a few more pounds of muscle, and honestly I think being an ILB in a 3-4 would keep him on the field for more plays than MLB in a 4-3 would.

Our other MLB is gonna be DJ. I don't see him having the size to play OLB in this still-theoretical 3-4 scheme, especially since fighting through blocks and blitzing the QB have never been his strong suit.

And we can't trade him with that giant new contract - the cap hit would be excruciating - so we have to keep him.

Niko can't play in a 3-4. Hagan will be better in a 3-4, and is a decent backup - I'd keep him.

I can see us going with another ILB in the draft. We might feel like we need another instant starter and so take a guy like Maualuga early, or we might want someone to try to groom for a year or two down the line to replace the worse of DJ or Larsen, and grab a guy like Jasper Brinkley in the middle of the 2nd day.

Right now, I like the Brinkley idea, but it all depends on how the coaches feel about Larsen and who is available at #12. If there's no Raji, we might go Maualuga instead to lock down a guy who's a guaranteed starter and a good fit for the new D.

~G

[lex]

Niko should never have been on the roster. Well as a pure back special teamer but even then it was a desperate move.


It wasnt a great signing but it wasnt as bad as many seem to think. The bigger problem was the coaches evaluation of players and their estimate of who could help most in the game. I think the lack of contact in practice has led to an emphasis on guys flying around and getting to the ball...playing with a lot of energy and hustle. And as a result, what gets overlooked is the guy who plays more with his feet on the ground...someone you dont see as much unless your tackling in practice. I also think one of the flaws has been estimating when a rookie will be able to contribute in live action. Its often been the case that when rookies have seen action, weve realized they can actually play. Maybe they werent ready in the preseason, but at some point you have to estimate that they might be. It seems that we've been doing a poor job of this. And basically once the season starts, those are our locked-in starters the rest of the way. This head in the sand approach has been costly for a variety of reasons.

[lex]

Larsen can throw on a few more pounds of muscle, and honestly I think being an ILB in a 3-4 would keep him on the field for more plays than MLB in a 4-3 would.

Our other MLB is gonna be DJ. I don't see him having the size to play OLB in this still-theoretical 3-4 scheme, especially since fighting through blocks and blitzing the QB have never been his strong suit.

And we can't trade him with that giant new contract - the cap hit would be excruciating - so we have to keep him.

Niko can't play in a 3-4. Hagan will be better in a 3-4, and is a decent backup - I'd keep him.

I can see us going with another ILB in the draft. We might feel like we need another instant starter and so take a guy like Maualuga early, or we might want someone to try to groom for a year or two down the line to replace the worse of DJ or Larsen, and grab a guy like Jasper Brinkley in the middle of the 2nd day.

Right now, I like the Brinkley idea, but it all depends on how the coaches feel about Larsen and who is available at #12. If there's no Raji, we might go Maualuga instead to lock down a guy who's a guaranteed starter and a good fit for the new D.

~G

I can see us going with McKillop, Cushing, Matthews, or Follett and seeing if he can play inside. But given their emphasis on smart players, Id be kind of surprised if they went with Maualuga. And this emphasis also leads to facing up with the dreaded prospect of drafting Laurinaitis.

[turftoad]

It wasnt a great signing but it wasnt as bad as many seem to think. The bigger problem was the coaches evaluation of players and their estimate of who could help most in the game. I think the lack of contact in practice has led to an emphasis on guys flying around and getting to the ball...playing with a lot of energy and hustle. And as a result, what gets overlooked is the guy who plays more with his feet on the ground...someone you dont see as much unless your tackling in practice. I also think one of the flaws has been estimating when a rookie will be able to contribute in live action. Its often been the case that when rookies have seen action, weve realized they can actually play. Maybe they werent ready in the preseason, but at some point you have to estimate that they might be. It seems that we've been doing a poor job of this. And basically once the season starts, those are our locked-in starters the rest of the way. This head in the sand approach has been costly for a variety of reasons.

I watch'd him on game day. It's not just his tackling. He had no clue where to be and couldn't come off of blocks. Like he was lost out there.

He was a huge reach as a FA as we tried to put a band aid on the defense. He wasn't the only band aid either, there were a few others and as we saw, it didn't work.

[lex]

I watch'd him on game day. It's not just his tackling. He had no clue where to be and couldn't come off of blocks. Like he was lost out there.

He was a huge reach as a FA as we tried to put a band aid on the defense. He wasn't the only band aid either, there were a few others and as we saw, it didn't work.

Getting back to a point that I was going to make. I can see the signing making sense if theyre looking at someone or comparable ability to Webster to create competition. But like I alluded to, I thought Larsen was easily our best Mike this season just like Hillis was our best RB, Barrett was our best S, and Woodyard was neck and neck with our best OLB. Whats amazing is that people have suggested Goodman cant draft defense. But I just rattled off 2 low round guys and one UFA who should have been on the field much sooner than they were. And that could probably be said for Moss and Engelberger too. Basically, the coaches need to coach these guys and they need to see the field. But Woodyard, Larsen, and Barrett acquitted the Goodmans nicely for having an eye for defense. Its not their job to coach them though or make sure they see the field. For as pessimistic as I am about McDaniels and his play calling, I really like the most of the choices that have been made where coordinators and position coaches are concerned. I actually think Bowlen has been using some influence to bring some of these guys in.

[G_Money]

I can see us going with McKillop, Cushing, Matthews, or Follett and seeing if he can play inside. But given their emphasis on smart players, Id be kind of surprised if they went with Maualuga. And this emphasis also leads to facing up with the dreaded prospect of drafting Laurinaitis.

Maybe, but McKillop is Larsen. Hard to see them getting two of the same guy.

Laurinaitis is a theoretically-better version of Larsen. If we were in a 4-3 I could see it, but I wouldn't peg Laurinaitis as our first option, and he's not likely to be available later like McKillop.

Cushing I could see, though not at 12. If we trade back, I can see him being the pick.

*shrugs* Like you say, though, there are options. I have my own concerns about Maualuga, but we're in a weird draft slot, so what would be optimal to do and what we're able to do may be different things. ;)

~G

[SmilinAssasSin27]

maybe we go stud RB by default and sort the rest of it out later???

[turftoad]

Getting back to a point that I was going to make. I can see the signing making sense if theyre looking at someone or comparable ability to Webster to create competition. But like I alluded to, I thought Larsen was easily our best Mike this season just like Hillis was our best RB, Barrett was our best S, and Woodyard was neck and neck with our best OLB. Whats amazing is that people have suggested Goodman cant draft defense. But I just rattled off 2 low round guys and one UFA who should have been on the field much sooner than they were. And that could probably be said for Moss and Engelberger too. Basically, the coaches need to coach these guys and they need to see the field. But Woodyard, Larsen, and Barrett acquitted the Goodmans nicely for having an eye for defense. Its not their job to coach them though or make sure they see the field. For as pessimistic as I am about McDaniels and his play calling, I really like the most of the choices that have been made where coordinators and position coaches are concerned. I actually think Bowlen has been using some influence to bring some of these guys in.

I agree that our young guys should have seen the field sooner. I think Shanny thick head wouldn't allow it. :D

[lex]

Maybe, but McKillop is Larsen. Hard to see them getting two of the same guy.

Laurinaitis is a theoretically-better version of Larsen. If we were in a 4-3 I could see it, but I wouldn't peg Laurinaitis as our first option, and he's not likely to be available later like McKillop.

Cushing I could see, though not at 12. If we trade back, I can see him being the pick.

*shrugs* Like you say, though, there are options. I have my own concerns about Maualuga, but we're in a weird draft slot, so what would be optimal to do and what we're able to do may be different things. ;)

~G


Honestly, I think if both Larsen and McKillop are tough and smart, its a possibility. And I would actually like to see this. Actually, Woodyard might also be a candidate to play the Will. Its just that DJs contract really jams him up. DJ is a highly played Will and only Will and this forces Woodyard to fend for table scraps. It would be great though, if we could go with Moss/Doom, Williams/Woodyard, Larsen, and Woodyard/Rookie/FA along our LBs. But also consider that at the point where you might see McKillop, it makes it more agreeable if he is depth initially.

[Scarface]

maybe we go stud RB by default and sort the rest of it out later???

Depending on the how draft board shakes out it wouldn't be a huge surprise to me.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If Maualuga, Raji, Curry and Brown are all gone at 12, I wouldn't be upset.

[Drill-N-Fill]

maybe we go stud RB by default and sort the rest of it out later???

Moreno does remind me a lot of Portis with his breakability. The last time our running game was feared.

[Magnificent Seven]

There will be a bunch of pressures on linebackers in the training camp. Battle for 3 or 4 starting positions of linebacker.

Personally, I don't know about their new organization and defense is currently up in the air. I know that they will lock Champ Bailey for the position of CB. That is all I know. I look forward to seeing some new changes in defense.

[TXBRONC]

Larsen is the only one in that group that I'm not leary of. Niko was brought in here to compete for the starting mike linebacker position and he could be beat out Webster. What does that say? Haggans has already been in the League six years so I don't know.

[Magnificent Seven]

I hope they would draft USC's Rey Maualuga. He is the best defensive player in the nation, period. He could be way better than Chargers' Shawn Merriman and Rey Maualuga would be perfect fit in Broncos defense.

[Magnificent Seven]

I hope they would draft USC's Rey Maualuga. He is the best defensive player in the nation, period. He could be way better than Chargers' Shawn Merriman and Rey Maualuga would be perfect fit in Broncos defense.

Rey Maualuga should be Josh McDaniels' first choice on his list.

[Drill-N-Fill]

Rey Maualuga should be Josh McDaniels' first choice on his list.

I agree. My top 3 goes...

1. Rey Maulauga
2. BJ Raji (sp?)
3. Moreno

I really hate picking up a RB in the 1st...but Moreno will be a star in this league.

[TXBRONC]

Rey Maualuga should be Josh McDaniels' first choice on his list.

If we're switching to a 3-4 I think Raji should be the first choice.

If he's not then Maualuga and I would even be willing take Brain Cushing even if meant dropping down in the draft order.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I've been saying it for weeks...trade back for Tyson and Cushing or LeSean.

[TXBRONC]

I've been saying it for weeks...trade back for Tyson and Cushing or LeSean.

I would only consider doing that if Raji isn't there at 12.

[Ziggy]

The best part of this training camp is going to be watching to see which players earn thier playing time. With a brand new staff on defense and a new head coach, nobody is in the doghouse to begin with. They all have a clean slate, so to speak. I wouldn't be surprised to see some players that were stallwarts around here cut, and guys who couldn't make the field on gameday either starting or getting serious playing time. If we are switching to the 3-4, we might end up with only 1 or 2 players from last seasons front 7 still here to start the 09 season.

If Raji is there at 12 and they are planning on going to a 3-4 scheme, I think it's a no-brainer to take him there. If he's not, and Mauluaga is there, you almost have to go for the guy with the Ray Lewis type of mentality, leadership and athletic ability. Who knows though? They might have someone like Everette Brown at the top of thier draftboard. It'll be an interesting draft.

[ApaOps5]

I have been told, and from a reliable source, from my camp reports connections that McDaniels is very high on DJ and Woodyard. So that solves at least 2 LB spots. Again take it for what its worth but this person rarely leads me astray.

[TXBRONC]

The best part of this training camp is going to be watching to see which players earn thier playing time. With a brand new staff on defense and a new head coach, nobody is in the doghouse to begin with. They all have a clean slate, so to speak. I wouldn't be surprised to see some players that were stallwarts around here cut, and guys who couldn't make the field on gameday either starting or getting serious playing time. If we are switching to the 3-4, we might end up with only 1 or 2 players from last seasons front 7 still here to start the 09 season.

If Raji is there at 12 and they are planning on going to a 3-4 scheme, I think it's a no-brainer to take him there. If he's not, and Mauluaga is there, you almost have to go for the guy with the Ray Lewis type of mentality, leadership and athletic ability. Who knows though? They might have someone like Everette Brown at the top of thier draftboard. It'll be an interesting draft.

I am very interested in seeing how McDaniels and the Goodmans work this year's draft.

[lex]

I have been told, and from a reliable source, from my camp reports connections that McDaniels is very high on DJ and Woodyard. So that solves at least 2 LB spots. Again take it for what its worth but this person rarely leads me astray.


Which ones? For opposite reasons each of their contracts make them guys we'll be keeping around.

[ApaOps5]

Which ones? For opposite reasons each of their contracts make them guys we'll be keeping around.

I don't understand your question. DJ and Woodyard look to be key players. So the other 2 LB's are still up in the air if they move to a 3-4. Thats what I was saying. I think there is a spot for Larsen. But Winborn, and maybe Kouti should definitely be gone.

Boss probably sticks because he showed flashes when Denver ran the 3-4. The others I can't speak on.

[lex]

I don't understand your question. DJ and Woodyard look to be key players. So the other 2 LB's are still up in the air if they move to a 3-4. Thats what I was saying. I think there is a spot for Larsen. But Winborn, and maybe Kouti should definitely be gone.

Boss probably sticks because he showed flashes when Denver ran the 3-4. The others I can't speak on.

I was asking which LB spots? Will Williams play Will, which is inside? That makes the most sense for him. Where would Woodyard play? Sam?

[ApaOps5]

I was asking which LB spots? Will Williams play Will, which is inside? That makes the most sense for him. Where would Woodyard play? Sam?

Ah ok I got you. It wasn't brought up. Just that McDaniels likes them. But Nolan might not. We will have to see.

I can see DJ playing an ILB spot and agree Woodyard playing the SAM. He is still raw but you never know what he can do with a Defensive staff that can coach.

[lex]

Ah ok I got you. It wasn't brought up. Just that McDaniels likes them. But Nolan might not. We will have to see.

I can see DJ playing an ILB spot and agree Woodyard playing the SAM. He is still raw but you never know what he can do with a Defensive staff that can coach.


I think Woodyard is a little small to play Sam. I think he may need to put on 10 lbs regardless of where he plays though. And when I say 10 lbs, Im going under the assumption that its true what was reported about him weighing 230. Which is crazy, because when he was drafted, I think he weighed 212.

[Lonestar]

I think Woodyard is a little small to play Sam. I think he may need to put on 10 lbs regardless of where he plays though. And when I say 10 lbs, Im going under the assumption that its true what was reported about him weighing 230. Which is crazy, because when he was drafted, I think he weighed 212.

actually he was at 220 at the combine and reported in at 230.. but in late OCT or Nov he was on a local DEN TV interview/show and stated he was currently playing at 212..

I do not see how he could play LB in any scheme consistently at less than 220..

yes I know he was lights out then, but he was playing in space without the OL banging on him every play..

I will wait to see what they do .. I just think and have thought since the combine this kid was special..

[fcspikeit]

Larsen is the only one in that group that I'm not leary of. Niko was brought in here to compete for the starting mike linebacker position and he could be beat out Webster. What does that say? Haggans has already been in the League six years so I don't know.

I'm assuming you meant he "couldn't" beat out Webster?

Larson clearly beat out Webster and he wasn't starting either, So what does that say? Our coaches on the defensive side of the ball, didn't have a clue...

[lex]

actually he was at 220 at the combine and reported in at 230.. but in late OCT or Nov he was on a local DEN TV interview/show and stated he was currently playing at 212..

I do not see how he could play LB in any scheme consistently at less than 220..

yes I know he was lights out then, but he was playing in space without the OL banging on him every play..

I will wait to see what they do .. I just think and have thought since the combine this kid was special..


I think you have it backwards. Later in the season there was an article that said he was playing at 230. I remember because this came as a shock to many. But if he was only playing at 212, I would seriously look at playing him at safety since he is too good to not be on the field and also because the LBs need to be bigger in the 3-4. Im so glad we have that guy. He was so unbelievable that he kind of reminded me of Rod Smith, except people knew about him coming out of college. As a matter of fact, there was some healthy discussion of him on this very board with several people lobbying for him.

[Lonestar]

I'm assuming you meant he "couldn't" beat out Webster?

Larson clearly beat out Webster and he wasn't starting either, So what does that say? Our coaches on the defensive side of the ball, didn't have a clue...

that is how I read it.. but also have to think they report to slowish who reports to mikey..

mikey seemed to be irrational about his dog house players.. once in they never seemed to see the light of day..

for example crowder played well last year as rookie..

this year could not get on the field and was inactive for 9 or 10 games..

Considering how bad our DL was this year against the rush and QB harassment I would have thought he might have seen some playing time.. How can he be one of the better DE last year and in some cases being touted as someone versatile enough to slide in and play DT..

Something is/was wrong in Dove Valley IMHO..

[fcspikeit]

I think you have it backwards. Later in the season there was an article that said he was playing at 230. I remember because this came as a shock to many. But if he was only playing at 212, I would seriously look at playing him at safety since he is too good to not be on the field and also because the LBs need to be bigger in the 3-4.

I'm pretty sure the 212 comment came at the end of the year lex. Some said he was bigger then that, others said he lost weight over the course of the season and a lot of us said, he should get a chance to play Safety..

Maybe McDanials is high on him with the intent he will play Safety?

[Lonestar]

I think you have it backwards. Later in the season there was an article that said he was playing at 230. I remember because this came as a shock to many. But if he was only playing at 212, I would seriously look at playing him at safety since he is too good to not be on the field and also because the LBs need to be bigger in the 3-4. Im so glad we have that guy. He was so unbelievable that he kind of reminded me of Rod Smith, except people knew about him coming out of college. As a matter of fact, there was some healthy discussion of him on this very board with several people lobbying for him.

I saw/heard the video on here or CBS 4 not sure.. but he clearly said he was playing at 212.. late late OCT to mid november. At the time I thought he was smaller than Lynch was..

[Lonestar]

I'm pretty sure the 212 comment came at the end of the year lex. Some said he was bigger then that, others said he lost weight over the course of the season and a lot of us said, he should get a chance to play Safety..

Maybe McDanials is high on him with the intent he will play Safety?

thanks for the input I thought at the time that he was like Moss someone that could not keep weight on for a longer NFL season..

[fcspikeit]

that is how I read it.. but also have to think they report to slowish who reports to mikey..

mikey seemed to be irrational about his dog house players.. once in they never seemed to see the light of day..

for example crowder played well last year as rookie..

this year could not get on the field and was inactive for 9 or 10 games..

Considering how bad our DL was this year against the rush and QB harassment I would have thought he might have seen some playing time.. How can he be one of the better DE last year and in some cases being touted as someone versatile enough to slide in and play DT..

Something is/was wrong in Dove Valley IMHO..

I agree Jr...

?, What did Larson do to get in Shanahan's dog house? I think it had more to do with the fact he drafted him to play FB...

He must have seen Cory Hall and a light bulb went off :D

It's extremely confounding when you think of it, our best Mike was playing FB, while one of the best athletes on our team, who actually happened to be a FB, was sitting on the bench :confused:

[lex]

I'm pretty sure the 212 comment came at the end of the year lex. Some said he was bigger then that, others said he lost weight over the course of the season and a lot of us said, he should get a chance to play Safety..

Maybe McDanials is high on him with the intent he will play Safety?

I dont know. Im going by the article that I mentioned. If thats wrong then so be it. But like I said, if 212 is his current weight, by all means, put that guy at SS.

[lex]

I saw/heard the video on here or CBS 4 not sure.. but he clearly said he was playing at 212.. late late OCT to mid november. At the time I thought he was smaller than Lynch was..

Hmmm. Fair enough. Like I said, I was going by an article late in the season. Thats actually even more impressive if he was doing all that at 212. What a warrior.

[lex]

I agree Jr...

?, What did Larson do to get in Shanahan's dog house? I think it had more to do with the fact he drafted him to play FB...

He must have seen Cory Hall and a light bulb went off :D

It's extremely confounding when you think of it, our best Mike was playing FB, while one of the best athletes on our team, who actually happened to be a FB, was sitting on the bench :confused:


Mike is/was too concerned with being a players coach by doing things like let Champ pick his defensive coordinator, defending Travis Henry in his fight with the league, etc, that he probably neglected to notice the rookies had something to add, in particular the lower round rookies that needed a little time to get on board. Shanahan did the same thing with Barrett. Why was he not playing sooner? Its just pathetic.

[Lonestar]

I agree Jr...

What did Larson do to get in Shanahan's dog house? I think it had more to do with the fact he drafted him to play FB...

He must have seen Cory Hall and a light bulb went off :D

It's extremely confounding when you think of it, our best Mike was playing FB, while one of the best athletes on our team, who actually happened to be a FB, was sitting on the bench :confused:

I'll run with that idea abit..

Why would he look at the kid and SEE FB.. a blocking FB at that.. had he ever played the position..

Shanahan: Day 2 Recap -- Sunday, April 27, 2008

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&year=2008&month=4

called him "a very physical LB that I believe can not only play the LB position but also FB position as well.. an all around athlete" and then went on to talk about Hillis being a really strong FB that would well into our blocking scheme..

[fcspikeit]

I'll run with that idea abit..

Why would he look at the kid and SEE FB.. a blocking FB at that.. had he ever played the position..

Shanahan: Day 2 Recap -- Sunday, April 27, 2008

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=609&year=2008&month=4

called him "a very physical LB that I believe can not only play the LB position but also FB position as well.. an all around athlete" and then went on to talk about Hillis being a really strong FB that would well into our blocking scheme..

I was excited when we landed Hillis in the 7th round...He was the second favorite FB on my draft board and something like the 25th player on my draft board wish list. At the time of our pick, he was the top player left on my wish list. Woodyard was also right there. When our pick came up, I was saying Payton Hillis or Wesley Woodyard. I was happy as hell we drafted him and couldn't believe we got him in the 7th.. I thought he would be gone in the 4th..

Anyways, I was even more excited after watching him play in preseason. When he caught that one pass down around our goal line and ran over 3 or 4 guys before getting pushed out of bounce I knew he was the real deal. I don't know why he didn't start from day 1? I thought he was clearly the best FB on our roster. Then after reading some of the things Cutler. Hall and I believe Young, were saying about him. I thought he was a lock to start.. Comments like, "He might have the best hands on the team"(Cutler) "He don't just block, he runs over people then continues up field to hit someone else"(Hall)


I was happy with our draft last year, mainly because a lot of the guys taken were on my board.. All of these guys were on my board..

Clady
Royal (he was my second favorite WR after Nelson)
Lichtensteiger (SP?)
Larson (He was the 3rd or 4th LB on my board)
Hillis
Woodyard

Please note, in the case of Clady, Royal and Hillis, I thought they were among the best players at their positions. All the other guys I just really liked because I thought they had a lot of heart or fight.

[fcspikeit]

Mike is/was too concerned with being a players coach by doing things like let Champ pick his defensive coordinator, defending Travis Henry in his fight with the league, etc, that he probably neglected to notice the rookies had something to add, in particular the lower round rookies that needed a little time to get on board. Shanahan did the same thing with Barrett. Why was he not playing sooner? Its just pathetic.

It was pretty clear to me early on, he couldn't be any worse then anyone else we had playing at S, It only made sense to let him play so we would know what we had coming into this year. Instead, we played the losers all year, guys who will be lucky to even make the team next year and we still don't know if we can count on Barritt as our starter? The same goes for Larson... My guess is that we would never have seen him, had it not been for the Nate going down...

After what we seen this year, it really makes you wonder how many other players were better then the starters but never got a chance to play, for whatever reason..

[broncofaninfla]

Larsen and DJ will be SOLID at the ILB spots. I'd keep Haggan for depth and I assume they'll add some rookie talent here as well.

[MHCBill]

I want Maualuga. He will be a play-maker. He looks like a Seau or Ray Lewis type of linebacker. He'll overpursue now and again, but overall he'll make plays. That's what this defense needs.

As for current linebackers that will make next year's roster...

DJ Williams - starts on the inside (weak-side)
Spencer Larsen - solid inside backup
Mario Haggans - played in a 3-4 w/Pittsburgh
Wesley Woodyard - may swith to SS
Jamie Winborn - backup
Jarvis Moss - OLB (pray he becomes a nice blitzer from the outside)
Niko Koutvides - backup

Draft Maualuga to play inside with DJ. OLB Moss and either a FA (Suggs or Dansby) or draft a project player to become your next OLB and let Haggans start for a year.

[TXBRONC]

I want Maualuga. He will be a play-maker. He looks like a Seau or Ray Lewis type of linebacker. He'll overpursue now and again, but overall he'll make plays. That's what this defense needs.

As for current linebackers that will make next year's roster...

DJ Williams - starts on the inside (weak-side)
Spencer Larsen - solid inside backup
Mario Haggans - played in a 3-4 w/Pittsburgh
Wesley Woodyard - may swith to SS
Jamie Winborn - backup
Jarvis Moss - OLB (pray he becomes a nice blitzer from the outside)
Niko Koutvides - backup

Draft Maualuga to play inside with DJ. OLB Moss and either a FA (Suggs or Dansby) or draft a project player to become your next OLB and let Haggans start for a year.


With what I know now about Winborn having played for Nolan before and that he got cut, I think he's candidate to get a pink slip.

If we keep Koutouvides I think he should take a pay cut, if not mistaken was paying him to be a starter and if couldn't beat out Webster what does that say?

[CoachChaz]

Woodyard really has no choice but to start preparing for the SS role. He was small to be a LB in the 4-3 and he's WAY to small for any spot in a 3-4. He's a hardcore guy, but unless he can make the switch, he may be a casualty

[Cugel]

It wasnt a great signing but it wasnt as bad as many seem to think. The bigger problem was the coaches evaluation of players and their estimate of who could help most in the game. I think the lack of contact in practice has led to an emphasis on guys flying around and getting to the ball...playing with a lot of energy and hustle. And as a result, what gets overlooked is the guy who plays more with his feet on the ground...someone you dont see as much unless your tackling in practice. I also think one of the flaws has been estimating when a rookie will be able to contribute in live action. Its often been the case that when rookies have seen action, weve realized they can actually play. Maybe they werent ready in the preseason, but at some point you have to estimate that they might be. It seems that we've been doing a poor job of this. And basically once the season starts, those are our locked-in starters the rest of the way. This head in the sand approach has been costly for a variety of reasons.

I have to agree with this Lex. You noticed the tackling improve a bit when Shanahan went to scrimmage-like practices instead of walk-throughs.

With a bunch of young players you can't assume they have the fundamentals down, and even with veterans the team does well what gets emphasized in practice -- like tackling.

I wonder what McDaniels will do?

The Broncos DO have some interesting projects, Larsen, Woodyard and Barrett being the most promising. But, really those guys should be backups who push your starting players, not wing-and-a-prayer guys you have to stick in there and hope for the best!

I liked Barrett as a possible safety backup who should push for more playing time if they get two veteran FAs, which I think is necessary, even essential. If they draft 1 or 2 safeties and get 1 veteran FA then Barrett is being penciled in as a starter, which is not ideal.

But, overall you can't be relying on late round draft picks and undrafted FAs to surprise you and do more than expected. Those kind of guys are the filler of the NFL. Every team has them and the good ones can provide a spark -- kind of like that 6th man coming off the bench in basketball -- you don't want that guy to start, you want him ready to come in to give the team a lift.

[Lonestar]

I have to agree with this Lex. You noticed the tackling improve a bit when Shanahan went to scrimmage-like practices instead of walk-throughs.

With a bunch of young players you can't assume they have the fundamentals down, and even with veterans the team does well what gets emphasized in practice -- like tackling.

I wonder what McDaniels will do?

The Broncos DO have some interesting projects, Larsen, Woodyard and Barrett being the most promising. But, really those guys should be backups who push your starting players, not wing-and-a-prayer guys you have to stick in there and hope for the best!

I liked Barrett as a possible safety backup who should push for more playing time if they get two veteran FAs, which I think is necessary, even essential. If they draft 1 or 2 safeties and get 1 veteran FA then Barrett is being penciled in as a starter, which is not ideal.

But, overall you can't be relying on late round draft picks and undrafted FAs to surprise you and do more than expected. Those kind of guys are the filler of the NFL. Every team has them and the good ones can provide a spark -- kind of like that 6th man coming off the bench in basketball -- you don't want that guy to start, you want him ready to come in to give the team a lift.


your pretty much on the mark on all of this.. I have to add..
I think when you have these wing and prayer type guys coming in and out playing your starters it pretty much proves how low we had sunk/stunk.. depending on how you saw it..

that all came down to those players we did draft in 1999 through 2006 that did not come in and stick.. It also shows that mikey did not place any emphasis on Defense..

I think from time to time you will find a gem on day one in the later rounds but those should be the exception and not the rule that mikey seemed to be grasping at the past 3 or 4 years..

[lex]

I have to agree with this Lex. You noticed the tackling improve a bit when Shanahan went to scrimmage-like practices instead of walk-throughs.

With a bunch of young players you can't assume they have the fundamentals down, and even with veterans the team does well what gets emphasized in practice -- like tackling.

I wonder what McDaniels will do?

The Broncos DO have some interesting projects, Larsen, Woodyard and Barrett being the most promising. But, really those guys should be backups who push your starting players, not wing-and-a-prayer guys you have to stick in there and hope for the best!

I liked Barrett as a possible safety backup who should push for more playing time if they get two veteran FAs, which I think is necessary, even essential. If they draft 1 or 2 safeties and get 1 veteran FA then Barrett is being penciled in as a starter, which is not ideal.

But, overall you can't be relying on late round draft picks and undrafted FAs to surprise you and do more than expected. Those kind of guys are the filler of the NFL. Every team has them and the good ones can provide a spark -- kind of like that 6th man coming off the bench in basketball -- you don't want that guy to start, you want him ready to come in to give the team a lift.

I think Woodyard played his way onto the field. The guy is too good not to be out there. He's earned that. I dont see him as a backup at all.

I think the 3-4 would help Larsen and I think he showed enough to justify giving him a shot at Mike. The cadre wants smart and tough. Thats what he brings.

Barrett was a little rough but I think he could be refined with experience and coaching. Plus he is such a good athlete that he can overcome some stuff in the meantime.

What we need is stuff specific to the 3-4 that we know we dont have already. Obviously thats what theyre trying to decide. But I feel more comfortable with Larsen at Mike in a 3-4 than I do Doom or Moss at Jack or Powell at Nose.

[Magnificent Seven]

Josh McDaniels should draft Rey Maualuga and sign Julius Peppers. I doubt that they won't let Terrell Suggs go.