5 players that could vault Denver to Super Bowl

[Northman]

Pretty neat article, some people here have touched on some of the players. Just thought i would post it for your viewing pleasure. I would love to see this personally.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/114937-five-players-that-could-vault-the-denver-broncos-to-the-super-bowl-in-2009


In 2008, it seemed at times that the Denver Broncos were on the cusp of greatness, and at times it seemed as though they were destined for the No. 1 pick in the draft. Through it all, the Broncos put together quite an impressive season given the terrible defense they had.

If the Broncos are to succeed in 2009, they need to get better on defense, and fast. Back in 2005, when Denver reached the AFC Championship, they had a dominant defense that set records for most quarters without allowing a touchdown, and least amount of points through five games.

Although that was merely three years ago, it seems long gone.

Luckily for Denver, this is one of the most talented offseason's in recent years, and they would be wise to take advantage, both through the draft and free agency. Here are seven players who, if added, could potentially vault the Broncos to "Super" status next season.



1. Oshiomogho "O.J." Atogwe; Safety, St. Louis Rams; UFA

Atogwe has steadily and quietly risen to the elite level of coverage safeties. In his short four year NFL career, he already has 243 tackles, two sacks, and 17 interceptions.
Author Poll


Denver struck out with Marlon McCree and Marquand Manuel as free agents in 2008, and would be doing the defense a great service by adding a ball-hawking free safety to pair with Josh Barrett.

I initially thought Denver would draft Taylor Mays with the 12th overall pick, but that is no longer a possibility as Mays has opted to return to USC for his senior season. Picking up Atogwe just makes sense to me, and he would significantly improve Denver's defense.



2. Channing Crowder; Middle Linebacker, Miami Dolphins; UFA

Like Atogwe, Crowder is quietly one of the better 3-4 middle linebackers the game has to offer. At 6'2" 250 pounds, he is an imposing threat to any offense, and ironically, his career has been overshadowed greatly by former Dolphin standout Zach Thomas.

I have said time and time again that Denver doesn't need linebackers, but I may be enjoying some Bronco Kool-Aid in saying that. While I love Spencer Larsen and Jamie Winborn as 3-4 middle linebackers, I just don't know if Larsen is ready to be a three-down guy. Crowder can be that guy.

In four seasons as a pro, Crowder has accumulated 378 tackles, and a career high 113 in 2008. I first got the idea of this guy from Henry Gula and have since fallen in love with the prospect.



3. B.J. Raji; Defensive Tackle, Boston College; First round draft pick (12th overall)

After seeing Raji dominate the nation's top senior offensive linemen at Senior Bowl practices, I am convinced that the 6'2", 335 pound nose tackle is the best fit for the Broncos in the draft.

I have heard from my sources that he could go as high as No. 6 overall to the Bengals, but ESPN.com's Todd McShay currently has him ranked 14th on the list of overall prospects, and he is currently projected to go to Denver by Mel Kiper Jr., one of the most knowledgeable draft analysts ever.

Raji would be a perfect fit to build the defense around, and new defensive line coach Wayne Nunelly would have a blast molding him into a Casey Hampton or Haloti Ngata type player.



4. Shonn Greene; Running Back, Iowa; Second round draft pick (44th overall)

Ten, yes ten different running backs made Denver's active roster at some point or another in 2008. That number is simply unacceptable, no matter how freakish of an injury. Andre Hall, Selvin Young, and Ryan Torain all have injury histories, and Torain will likely be the only one of the crop brought back in 2009.

The Broncos would be wise to draft the best back (in my opinion) in the second round if the opportunity presents itself. Don't drink the same Kool-Aid I do and convince yourselves that Torain is the long-term answer, he just hasn't played enough yet. Greene is an absolute stud, and his highlight reels speak for themselves.

He is a tough running back, who would likely be a top rookie of the year candidate if given a fully healthy season.

I know that Peyton Hillis was a very capable back, but Denver probably won't use him in the same capacity next year. Yes, he will get his carries, but he is such a great receiver that Denver can't limit him to lining up in the I-formation.

Also, Anthony Alridge will be back next season to serve as Denver's version of Darren Sproles, and his talents will demand carries as well. An every-down back like Greene would be ideal for the Broncos.



5. Mike Brown; Safety, Chicago Bears; UFA

Don't take this signing the wrong way, I love Josh Barrett as a prospect. But he wasn't given enough time to develop. Adding a veteran like Brown, who could come at a relatively inexpensive price would be an excellent move for the Broncos.

Brown provides a veteran presence, as well as leadership on the field. Plus, he knows what it takes to form a winning defense.

[broncobryce]

I like it all except Mike Brown. Seems like he is always injured

[ApaOps5]

I like Mike Brown when he plays. But how rare is that.

[MOtorboat]

I like Mike Brown when he plays. But how rare is that.

He played in 15 games this year before sitting out the last game with a Hamstring. The Bears have already said they aren't going to bring him back, so its certainly a possibility. I'd rather take my chances with him than drafting Moore or Chung in the second (provided they dropped that far) and it would free us up to draft a back with one of the first two of our picks.

[TXBRONC]

I know Channing Crowder is a very good linebacker but I think we can draft a solid mike or give Larsen a chance without paying the kind of money Crowder will get.

[UnderArmour]

1. Oshiomogho "O.J." Atogwe; Safety, St. Louis Rams; UFA

Atogwe has steadily and quietly risen to the elite level of coverage safeties. In his short four year NFL career, he already has 243 tackles, two sacks, and 17 interceptions.
Author Poll


Denver struck out with Marlon McCree and Marquand Manuel as free agents in 2008, and would be doing the defense a great service by adding a ball-hawking free safety to pair with Josh Barrett.

I initially thought Denver would draft Taylor Mays with the 12th overall pick, but that is no longer a possibility as Mays has opted to return to USC for his senior season. Picking up Atogwe just makes sense to me, and he would significantly improve Denver's defense.



Didn't realize he was an UFA. He would be a great signing and I want him so bad.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Anyone who loves Winborn for anything is wrong.

[Ziggy]

Didn't realize he was an UFA. He would be a great signing and I want him so bad.

He is an UFA, but he's going to get paid. He will probably end up as a top 5 paid safety when it's all said and done. I like the kid too. He might actually be worth throwing some money at. He could free up Barrett to play closer to the line, the way we used to use Lynch.

[Ziggy]

Anyone who loves Winborn for anything is wrong.

Oh come on now. He did make the all-idiot celebration team.

[MGM]

We didn't break any records in 2005 on defense for points scored. That was in the begining of the season in 2006

[Slick]

I doubt the new defensive coach of the Rams lets his safety get away. Same with Crowder in Miami. Still, an interesting article.

[Ziggy]

I doubt the new defensive coach of the Rams lets his safety get away. Same with Crowder in Miami. Still, an interesting article.

From the reports I've read, the Dolphins and Crowder have been trying to renew a contract for a while now, but Miami refuses to offer more than they already have, so Crowder may be a good bet to actually make it to FA.

Atogwe may be a different story altogether.

[Ziggy]

Here's one of the articles I was referring to from a Miami paper. Take it for what it's worth:

Channing Crowder, other Dolphins free agents to test market
0 Comment January 22 Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel
"At the end of the season Channing Crowder apologized to the media for not being around much by joking he was busy using his lunch break to find a new job.

The Dolphins' four-year starter was hinting the only NFL team he's ever played for might not want him back, and he likely came to that conclusion based on the Dolphins' contract offer, one they haven't improved on, according to a source.

"I'm a system guy," Crowder said, referring to the way he's perceived by the team's front office. "Tackles are easy," Crowder said, referring to his career-high 119 tackles in 16 games. "You get paid off big plays. [I have] no big plays."

Crowder's prepared to discover if other teams disagree with the Dolphins' assessment and will offer him a contract that pays him like he's a starting linebacker when free agency opens Feb. 27.

All of the Dolphins' key free agents likely will take the same approach. The belief is that all five of the free agent starters — Crowder, right tackle Vernon Carey, cornerback Andre' Goodman and safeties Renaldo Hill and Yeremiah Bell — presently aren't getting the Dolphins' best offer.

"The players that we're negotiating with, they know where we stand on things," General Manager Jeff Ireland said. "I think the negotiations are going OK.

"They are not fast and furious right now, but they know were we stand, and there is good communication."

Drew Rosenhaus, the agent who represents Bell and Hill, said negotiations between teams looking to re-sign their own players typically heats up around the NFL combine, which begins Feb. 18.

"It's early. Real preliminary," Rosenhaus said of his discussions regarding Bell and Hill. "Right now we're feeling each other out.""

[broncobryce]

"There has to be some concern about his ability to play free safety given that he’s had leg injuries for four straight years—Achilles tendon, calf muscle, Lisfranc ligament and the knee. Eventually, that wear and tear is going to take a toll on a 30-year-old."

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2008/05/bears_restructure_mike_browns.html

As long as we put an injury clause in the contract.

[TXBRONC]

Anyone who loves Winborn for anything is wrong.

I think he's a capable back up but if Nolan gives him a pink slip I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[Scarface]

I think he's a capable back up but if Nolan gives him a pink slip I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

He already gave him one when he was a Niner. Could happen again.

[LRtagger]

Anyone who loves Winborn for anything is wrong.

i think he probably meant DJ :confused:

[TXBRONC]

He already gave him one when he was a Niner. Could happen again.

Yeah its very possible.

[NameUsedBefore]

Atogwe, definitely. Mike Brown gets injured in his dreams and Crowder isn't much of an upgrade, IMO.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

i think he probably meant DJ :confused:

i really hope so

[Den21vsBal19]

I know Channing Crowder is a very good linebacker but I think we can draft a solid mike or give Larsen a chance without paying the kind of money Crowder will get.
I'd like to see Larsen given a chance..............when he does play he's got a good motor and a nose for the ball...............

And does it matter if he's not a 3 down 'backer??? I've got no problem with a specialist running with the D in 3rd and passing situations

[lex]

I'd like to see Larsen given a chance..............when he does play he's got a good motor and a nose for the ball...............

And does it matter if he's not a 3 down 'backer??? I've got no problem with a specialist running with the D in 3rd and passing situations


Im hoping he will. From the beginning the cadre has said smart and tough. Larsen is that.

[Scarface]

I'd like to see Larsen given a chance..............when he does play he's got a good motor and a nose for the ball...............

And does it matter if he's not a 3 down 'backer??? I've got no problem with a specialist running with the D in 3rd and passing situations

Plus he plays with heart and passion which is obviously important for any football player but maybe even more so for a defensive player.

[G_Money]

Re: Crowder.

With a move to the 3-4, and us likely having to move DJ inside, Crowder would be good, but I'd actually look more into a backup MLB and let Larsen start. Ironically, a 3-4 D should fit him better, and our new MLB coach is good at turning decent guys with heart into very productive players.

Still, adding Crowder would be a good, solid move for us, especially if other teams do wind up undervaluing him. I'd still rather add an outside pass-rusher since we have none of those, though.

Atogwe can play, but I agree with Ziggy that if he makes the FA market his price will likely be large.

I do like him though.

There are players out there who will help us. There are players in the draft who will start immediately and help us.

Losing Slowik means we may even get more production out of what we had.

Many, many reasons for defensive optimism - at least until we see who we get. ;)

~G

[Slick]

Re: Crowder.

With a move to the 3-4, and us likely having to move DJ inside, Crowder would be good, but I'd actually look more into a backup MLB and let Larsen start. Ironically, a 3-4 D should fit him better, and our new MLB coach is good at turning decent guys with heart into very productive players.

Still, adding Crowder would be a good, solid move for us, especially if other teams do wind up undervaluing him. I'd still rather add an outside pass-rusher since we have none of those, though.

Atogwe can play, but I agree with Ziggy that if he makes the FA market his price will likely be large.

I do like him though.

There are players out there who will help us. There are players in the draft who will start immediately and help us.

Losing Slowik means we may even get more production out of what we had.

Many, many reasons for defensive optimism - at least until we see who we get. ;)

~G

Losing Slowick may turn out to be the best upgrade of all, that and the new position coaches.

[nevcraw]

Losing Slowick maybe a great thing but the overhaul is by far going to be the difference maker. Lack of true talent that was able to have sustainable difference making play was by far the achillies heel.. Slowick was just another in a long line of defensive coaches with an almost empty cupboard.
All of the bad FA's, wasted picks and no identity on defense was the true reason they are who they are andd IMO cost Shanny his "lifer" coach status.
Let's hope if they pick up only one Defensive FA he is a fiery leader from a good program with infectous hunger to share with his new teammates.
McD must destroy and rebuild it into a nasty smash mouth ball hawking Defense.

[ApaOps5]

He already gave him one when he was a Niner. Could happen again.

Its not a matter of Could but when. Nolan likes smart players, Winborn is anything but that. Thank God we don't have to see his I just touched the RB who slipped on the grass but it counts as a loss of yards dance anymore.

[lex]

Losing Slowick maybe a great thing but the overhaul is by far going to be the difference maker. Lack of true talent that was able to have sustainable difference making play was by far the achillies heel.. Slowick was just another in a long line of defensive coaches with an almost empty cupboard.
All of the bad FA's, wasted picks and no identity on defense was the true reason they are who they are andd IMO cost Shanny his "lifer" coach status.
Let's hope if they pick up only one Defensive FA he is a fiery leader from a good program with infectous hunger to share with his new teammates.
McD must destroy and rebuild it into a nasty smash mouth ball hawking Defense.


No. Slowik was so bad that it was hard to tell how bad the players were.

[broncohead]

No. Slowik was so bad that it was hard to tell how bad the players were.

I remember Crowder looked promising until Slowik came in. I bet with new defensive coach and a better position coach Thomas, Moss, and Crowder all improve.

[nevcraw]

No. Slowik was so bad that it was hard to tell how bad the players were.

Keep telling yourself it was only the coach..

[Slick]

Keep telling yourself it was only the coach..

I doubt anyone thinks it's only Slowick's fault we sucked hind tit last year, but that it's tough to tell just how bad. When that many rookies are starting the lack of talent was obvious too.

Not a good combination.

[TXBRONC]

I'd like to see Larsen given a chance..............when he does play he's got a good motor and a nose for the ball...............

And does it matter if he's not a 3 down 'backer??? I've got no problem with a specialist running with the D in 3rd and passing situations

Same here, I would like to see Larsen get a shot playing in the middle.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

No. Slowik was so bad that it was hard to tell how bad the players were.


I agree with this. We all know how bad some of the the vets were early on, but once the rooks got in, things changed. Barrett, Wes and Larsen could be something to build on. Add to tha a 3-4 switch w/ Moss and Evis potentially being nice OLB fits, and the personnel overhaul may not be necessary afterall. We'll need a whole new DLine, but the back 7 may actually be OK.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Overall, I agree w/ 2 of the 5..and both would b draft picks. Mike Brown being a top 5 difference maker at this point is just retarded.

[Slick]

I agree with this. We all know how bad some of the the vets were early on, but once the rooks got in, things changed. Barrett, Wes and Larsen could be something to build on. Add to tha a 3-4 switch w/ Moss and Evis potentially being nice OLB fits, and the personnel overhaul may not be necessary afterall. We'll need a whole new DLine, but the back 7 may actually be OK.

I don't think we have a DE on the roster that will be able to stand up. That might change with coaching. I certainly hope so.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't get why folks don't think they can do it. College DEs make the transition all the time. Just cuz they've been pros for a few years doesn't mean they can't learn. Moss was actually projected as a 3-4 OLB by a few sites.

[Slick]

I don't get why folks don't think they can do it. College DEs make the transition all the time. Just cuz they've been pros for a few years doesn't mean they can't learn. Moss was actually projected as a 3-4 OLB by a few sites.

Lex's pessimism is rubbing off on me.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think we have a DE on the roster that will be able to stand up. That might change with coaching. I certainly hope so.

I would like to hope that Moss and Dumervil would be able to transition to outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense but because its such a big gamble we'll still need to draft one or two more linebackers.

[Lonestar]

Same here, I would like to see Larsen get a shot playing in the middle.


no no he can't he is a FB.. What wrong with Y'all:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[TXBRONC]

I don't get why folks don't think they can do it. College DEs make the transition all the time. Just cuz they've been pros for a few years doesn't mean they can't learn. Moss was actually projected as a 3-4 OLB by a few sites.

It's more than just learning the position they have show that they are fluid enough in the hips to play the position. I don't know if they can make the transition but I think its worth a try.

[Dean]

I agree with this. We all know how bad some of the the vets were early on, but once the rooks got in, things changed. Barrett, Wes and Larsen could be something to build on. Add to tha a 3-4 switch w/ Moss and Evis potentially being nice OLB fits, and the personnel overhaul may not be necessary afterall. We'll need a whole new DLine, but the back 7 may actually be OK.

With your name starting with "Smilin" I am not sure if you are serious.

You actually believe that we have the 2 safeties and 4 linebackers along with the back ups to succeed defensively next year! I hope that you explain your position.

:popcorn:

[ApaOps5]

With your name starting with "Smilin" I am not sure if you are serious.

You actually believe that we have the 2 safeties and 4 linebackers along with the back ups to succeed defensively next year! I hope that you explain your position.

:popcorn:

You do realize that was Atwaters nickname, don't you?

[Den21vsBal19]

no no he can't he is a FB.. What wrong with Y'all:laugh::laugh::laugh:
He's a highly played professional.............................he can play both ;)

[Dean]

You do realize that was Atwaters nickname, don't you?

I don't see Atwater returning as part of our back seven.

My comment was made in the context that I though he must be kidding to make the statement that we only need to aquire front 3 people next year for the 4-3. :confused:

[Ray Finkle]

I do not see the love affair for Brown...the guy has played what, 22 games in the last three seasons? Do you really want a S that has had multiple foot and ankle injuries?

[PatricktheDookie]

I do not see the love affair for Brown...the guy has played what, 22 games in the last three seasons? Do you really want a S that has had multiple foot and ankle injuries?

Only multiple injuries?

Sounds better than our safeties.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

With your name starting with "Smilin" I am not sure if you are serious.

You actually believe that we have the 2 safeties and 4 linebackers along with the back ups to succeed defensively next year! I hope that you explain your position.

:popcorn:

I conceed we would need the backups. But you don't sign backups to big free agent deals or draft them early on.

My view on the defensive roster is that our 2008, week 1 4-3 personnel is worlds different from our 2009 offseason personnel looking at a 3-4 switch, and here is why:

Let's first look at the Safety positions. And before I go further, please understand that Atwater is my fav player ever and I played Safety in HS (not that I was that good). Those 2 things may not matter overall, but it adds insight into my perspective. Point being that I always want to improve Safety first. Those who have read my rants over the pas 5 years can attest to this. Last offseason we signed 2 FA Safeties at a reasonable price and they eventually went on to become possibly the worst Safety tandom I have ever seen...EVER. So my engines werealready revving....Get me William Moore. Get me Myron Rolle. Then sumthin happened as the season progressed...Barrett got time at Safety and Woodyard got time at OLB. And things were different. Barrett, IMO, has shown he belongs back there as a starter. Woodyard has shown that he is an exciting playmaker w/ heart who belongs on the field. Now he may not be uber-experienced in the NFL at Safety, but he did play there in college (very well I may add) and has the measreables to play there in the league. He also has the LB instincts to come up in run support. We need Woodyards energy and ability onj the field...and he can't be a 3-4 LB.

Now onto the LBs. Now I definitely want to draft a ILB and a OLB this year...but in rounds 4 and 5. I definietely think depth is needed, but I also think we have what looks to be a LB corps w/ some potential to be successful on our current roster. In the middle, we have DJ. I think noone will disagree that he is the cornerstone of the LB corps. We also have Larsen, who much like Barrett and Woody, showed a lot of ability and potential when he actually got his chance. As much as the injury bothers me, I still think he gives us the ability to hold off on getting a ILB until later on. I like Worrell Williams of Cal who weighs 250 (and NOT just cuz he's DJ's brother) and/or Jasper Brinkley who weighs 275 on day 2 for ILB depth...and maybe a future starting role.

OLB is clearly the spot that is up in the air. We have Boss (who I never wanted here in the first place) and...umm...err...hmmm. I guess we'd have to look at what DEs ma be able to mke the switch. Since Elvis and Moss are clearly NOT 3-4 DEs, what are they? They are 3-4 OLBs. They have the size. They have the pass rushing ability (at least Moss did in college). They have the long arms. While admiitedly there are questions w/ these 2 given their lack of experience here, the same can be said for any college DE who is gonna try to make the switch to 3-4 OLB. A lot of the "experts" actully thought Moss was a better 3-4 OLB prospect than 4-3 DE when he was con out. I think we're about to find out. The question is Elvis. Can he move in space? We know he can rush the passer and is big enough to hold his own...but can he move? I think he'll be ok...but that is why I like drafting a Robert Ayers from Tennessee on day 2 as well. He's a big body who is very athletic and has plenty of experience rushing the passer.

So insummation, I think we have the pieces TO AT LEAST AFFORD US THE ABILITY TO FOCUS ON DLINE FIRST. We clearly would need depth in the back 7, but we basically hve nothing to even start with on the front 3.

I'm done now. Convinced I'm serious yet?

[lex]

Keep telling yourself it was only the coach..

At what point did I say it was only the coach? I said the coach(es) was so bad that we dont know the extent of suckitude that existed with players. I often hear people talk about no pass rush. Well, when your DC has the CBs playing with 10 yard cushions all the time, your pass rush isnt going to have much of a chance because the QB will just take the easy 5 yard slant. Ive heard people defend Slowiks scheme as a way of protecting the safety. But how is never pressuring the QB really helping any DB? If we had a more competent DC, we would have a better idea of who is bad and how bad. But because of Slowik, we dont know the extent of it.

[lex]

I doubt anyone thinks it's only Slowick's fault we sucked hind tit last year, but that it's tough to tell just how bad. When that many rookies are starting the lack of talent was obvious too.

Not a good combination.

I think, for example, there were some guys on this defense who would have looked better if it would have been Coyer scheming pressure. And Coyer is far from the end all, be all of DCs. But compared to Slowik he seems like Jimmy Johnson or Dick LeBeau.

Lets put this another way. Trent Cole of Philadelphia is a very productive defensive end. Does anyone believe he would do anything playing under Slowik? I also think that Slowik took a DE in Dumervil who was averaging 10.5 sacks over his first two seasons and cut that in half. Does anyone know who our team leader in INTs was? What did they have, two? Thats pathetic and it reflects that poor scheming.

[Bad Intentions]

Pretty neat article, some people here have touched on some of the players. Just thought i would post it for your viewing pleasure. I would love to see this personally.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/114937-five-players-that-could-vault-the-denver-broncos-to-the-super-bowl-in-2009


In 2008, it seemed at times that the Denver Broncos were on the cusp of greatness, and at times it seemed as though they were destined for the No. 1 pick in the draft. Through it all, the Broncos put together quite an impressive season given the terrible defense they had.

If the Broncos are to succeed in 2009, they need to get better on defense, and fast. Back in 2005, when Denver reached the AFC Championship, they had a dominant defense that set records for most quarters without allowing a touchdown, and least amount of points through five games.

Although that was merely three years ago, it seems long gone.

Luckily for Denver, this is one of the most talented offseason's in recent years, and they would be wise to take advantage, both through the draft and free agency. Here are seven players who, if added, could potentially vault the Broncos to "Super" status next season.



1. Oshiomogho "O.J." Atogwe; Safety, St. Louis Rams; UFA

Atogwe has steadily and quietly risen to the elite level of coverage safeties. In his short four year NFL career, he already has 243 tackles, two sacks, and 17 interceptions.
Author Poll


Denver struck out with Marlon McCree and Marquand Manuel as free agents in 2008, and would be doing the defense a great service by adding a ball-hawking free safety to pair with Josh Barrett.

I initially thought Denver would draft Taylor Mays with the 12th overall pick, but that is no longer a possibility as Mays has opted to return to USC for his senior season. Picking up Atogwe just makes sense to me, and he would significantly improve Denver's defense.



2. Channing Crowder; Middle Linebacker, Miami Dolphins; UFA

Like Atogwe, Crowder is quietly one of the better 3-4 middle linebackers the game has to offer. At 6'2" 250 pounds, he is an imposing threat to any offense, and ironically, his career has been overshadowed greatly by former Dolphin standout Zach Thomas.

I have said time and time again that Denver doesn't need linebackers, but I may be enjoying some Bronco Kool-Aid in saying that. While I love Spencer Larsen and Jamie Winborn as 3-4 middle linebackers, I just don't know if Larsen is ready to be a three-down guy. Crowder can be that guy.

In four seasons as a pro, Crowder has accumulated 378 tackles, and a career high 113 in 2008. I first got the idea of this guy from Henry Gula and have since fallen in love with the prospect.



3. B.J. Raji; Defensive Tackle, Boston College; First round draft pick (12th overall)

After seeing Raji dominate the nation's top senior offensive linemen at Senior Bowl practices, I am convinced that the 6'2", 335 pound nose tackle is the best fit for the Broncos in the draft.

I have heard from my sources that he could go as high as No. 6 overall to the Bengals, but ESPN.com's Todd McShay currently has him ranked 14th on the list of overall prospects, and he is currently projected to go to Denver by Mel Kiper Jr., one of the most knowledgeable draft analysts ever.

Raji would be a perfect fit to build the defense around, and new defensive line coach Wayne Nunelly would have a blast molding him into a Casey Hampton or Haloti Ngata type player.



4. Shonn Greene; Running Back, Iowa; Second round draft pick (44th overall)

Ten, yes ten different running backs made Denver's active roster at some point or another in 2008. That number is simply unacceptable, no matter how freakish of an injury. Andre Hall, Selvin Young, and Ryan Torain all have injury histories, and Torain will likely be the only one of the crop brought back in 2009.

The Broncos would be wise to draft the best back (in my opinion) in the second round if the opportunity presents itself. Don't drink the same Kool-Aid I do and convince yourselves that Torain is the long-term answer, he just hasn't played enough yet. Greene is an absolute stud, and his highlight reels speak for themselves.

He is a tough running back, who would likely be a top rookie of the year candidate if given a fully healthy season.

I know that Peyton Hillis was a very capable back, but Denver probably won't use him in the same capacity next year. Yes, he will get his carries, but he is such a great receiver that Denver can't limit him to lining up in the I-formation.

Also, Anthony Alridge will be back next season to serve as Denver's version of Darren Sproles, and his talents will demand carries as well. An every-down back like Greene would be ideal for the Broncos.



5. Mike Brown; Safety, Chicago Bears; UFA

Don't take this signing the wrong way, I love Josh Barrett as a prospect. But he wasn't given enough time to develop. Adding a veteran like Brown, who could come at a relatively inexpensive price would be an excellent move for the Broncos.

Brown provides a veteran presence, as well as leadership on the field. Plus, he knows what it takes to form a winning defense.


Hmm, I broke one down about three weeks ago with the exact same players... except for Crowder. I'll admit, I'd like to see us sign Crowder.

I like Shonn Greene a lot as well, but I'd much rather see the Broncos bring in a young vet like DWard from the Giants and then use that 2nd on a Clay Mathews type to play that ROLB position. Mathews was able to get Michael Oher (who is a big boy and highly rated LT) on his heels and beat him during practices at the Sr. Bowl.

Of course it is very possible that Raji is off the board before 12 now as well. Dude would have been a steal for us at 12 and people were talking about trading down for him... :confused: Yeah, now that a few people see him in action he's the perfect pick but may not make it to #12. If that's the case we have some nice options there though. Brown, Maualaga, and don't be surprised by Maclin. I think a guy like Maclin would be tough for an offensive minded HC to pass on. When I see Maclin I see Joey Galloway all over. If the 3-4 guys that we like are off the board OR he slips to 12, he could very well be the pick.

But the scenario that Anubis posted is pretty nice!

Btw, Mike Brown's injuries will keep his price down which is part of what makes him an attractive option. When healthy he is a GREAT safety. He's up there with the Dawkins and Sharpers of the world. If you could slip and injury clause in there... even better!

[Dean]

I conceed we would need the backups. But you don't sign backups to big free agent deals or draft them early on.

I appreciate your willingness to state your reasoning. Most won't.


My view on the defensive roster is that our 2008, week 1 4-3 personnel is worlds different from our 2009 offseason personnel looking at a 3-4 switch, and here is why:

Let's first look at the Safety positions. And before I go further, please understand that Atwater is my fav player ever and I played Safety in HS (not that I was that good).

I thought a young Dennis Smith was better but Atwater was one hell of a sledge hammer at safety


Those 2 things may not matter overall, but it adds insight into my perspective. Point being that I always want to improve Safety first. Those who have read my rants over the pas 5 years can attest to this. Last offseason we signed 2 FA Safeties at a reasonable price and they eventually went on to become possibly the worst Safety tandom I have ever seen...EVER.

I can't disagree with that.


So my engines werealready revving....Get me William Moore. Get me Myron Rolle. Then sumthin happened as the season progressed...Barrett got time at Safety and Woodyard got time at OLB. And things were different. Barrett, IMO, has shown he belongs back there as a starter.

I thought he showed some promise but he did not show me enough, yet, to be a starter. I wouldn't want to place a season in his hands.


Woodyard has shown that he is an exciting playmaker w/ heart who belongs on the field. Now he may not be uber-experienced in the NFL at Safety, but he did play there in college (very well I may add) and has the measreables to play there in the league.

As a freshman at Kentucky WW played only a part of the season at safety where they moved him to LB where he got what few stats that he earned that year.


He also has the LB instincts to come up in run support. We need Woodyards energy and ability onj the field...and he can't be a 3-4 LB.

Now onto the LBs. Now I definitely want to draft a ILB and a OLB this year...but in rounds 4 and 5. I definietely think depth is needed, but I also think we have what looks to be a LB corps w/ some potential to be successful on our current roster. In the middle, we have DJ. I think noone will disagree that he is the cornerstone of the LB corps. We also have Larsen, who much like Barrett and Woody, showed a lot of ability and potential when he actually got his chance.

Here again, we see things differently. I saw someone who was better than Nate Webster. IMO that doesn't take a superior performance.


As much as the injury bothers me, I still think he gives us the ability to hold off on getting a ILB until later on. I like Worrell Williams of Cal who weighs 250 (and NOT just cuz he's DJ's brother) and/or Jasper Brinkley who weighs 275 on day 2 for ILB depth...and maybe a future starting role.

OLB is clearly the spot that is up in the air. We have Boss (who I never wanted here in the first place) and...umm...err...hmmm. I guess we'd have to look at what DEs ma be able to mke the switch. Since Elvis and Moss are clearly NOT 3-4 DEs, what are they? They are 3-4 OLBs. They have the size. They have the pass rushing ability (at least Moss did in college).

Didn't Elvis have better pass rushing stats in college than Moss? Oh well. . .


They have the long arms. While admiitedly there are questions w/ these 2 given their lack of experience here, the same can be said for any college DE who is gonna try to make the switch to 3-4 OLB. A lot of the "experts" actully thought Moss was a better 3-4 OLB prospect than 4-3 DE when he was con out. I think we're about to find out. The question is Elvis. Can he move in space? We know he can rush the passer and is big enough to hold his own...but can he move? I think he'll be ok...but that is why I like drafting a Robert Ayers from Tennessee on day 2 as well. He's a big body who is very athletic and has plenty of experience rushing the passer.

You admit that you don't think highly of Bailey. You only think without evidence that Moss and Dumervil will be able to play a position that neither one has played before. However, Robert Ayers drafted on the second day will be all we need. I hope that the Broncos don't start the season on a hope and a prayer.


So insummation, I think we have the pieces TO AT LEAST AFFORD US THE ABILITY TO FOCUS ON DLINE FIRST. We clearly would need depth in the back 7, but we basically hve nothing to even start with on the front 3.

I'm done now. Convinced I'm serious yet?

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I am convinced that you are a gambler that likes to play the long shot. Too many longshots have to come up aces for those untried players to make a strong defensive back 7.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Elvis had better pass rushing stats, but I don't remember as many scouts mentioning him in a transtion to a 3-4 OLB, than I do Moss. Maybe they did. I just remember Moss getting 3-4 OLB love. Otherwise, it's not always as simple as getting rid of all the and and buying FAs to replace em. I hate Boss but he just signed a fairly big deal. He's gonna see the field if he is healthy. Every big name FA we sign will be above the average cost of a player at his position. Eventually tht adds up. Boss, Ayers, Moss, Elvis=4 OLBs. We really won't carry much more than that. The middle will be Winborn, DJ, Larsen and a rookie in my scenario. Again..that is 8 LBs total.

As far as evidence that people will succeed at new positions, where is the evidence that Everette Brown, Julius Peppers, etc will. Peppers may be great there, but he also may flop. I see the same scenario. Elvis proved he can get to the QB til Slowick gummed up the works. Moss was projected as a 3-4 fit.

Never said Larsen was a god on the field. Regardless, he was very good at Zona, people wanted him in last year's draft and when he go on the field he did not disappoint. I think he was much better than Webster..even in spot duty and when Shanny had him playing al over the place.


And I love Barrett. As a rookie he was inactive an then all of a sudden starting...in Slowick's play back 20 yards scheme..I think he did very well. I agee Wes is unproven, but I will gamble on him. H is a football player...and we need al of those we can find on the field. My other concern is that if Barrett is replaced by another FA, when will he get to see the field? Any FA worth signing will need a t least a 3-4 year deal. Why overspend when we have somene back there w/ all the measureables who also looked pretty good when he ddget the chance to play?

[topscribe]

I doubt anyone thinks it's only Slowick's fault we sucked hind tit last year, but that it's tough to tell just how bad. When that many rookies are starting the lack of talent was obvious too.

Not a good combination.

I think Slowik is a good coach. I just don't think he makes a good coordinator.
Since no one rushed out to hire him as DC this year, and he has gone back to
work as a coach of the secondary, it bodes that some front offices must
agree with me.

-----

[SmilinAssasSin27]

anyone who has a TV agrees with you.

[lex]

I think Slowik is a good coach. I just don't think he makes a good coordinator.
Since no one rushed out to hire him as DC this year, and he has gone back to
work as a coach of the secondary, it bodes that some front offices must
agree with me.
-----

Yeah, thats it. Someone agrees with you. All youre doing is echoing what has been said by many before. LOL

[nevcraw]

At what point did I say it was only the coach? I said the coach(es) was so bad that we dont know the extent of suckitude that existed with players. I often hear people talk about no pass rush. Well, when your DC has the CBs playing with 10 yard cushions all the time, your pass rush isnt going to have much of a chance because the QB will just take the easy 5 yard slant. Ive heard people defend Slowiks scheme as a way of protecting the safety. But how is never pressuring the QB really helping any DB? If we had a more competent DC, we would have a better idea of who is bad and how bad. But because of Slowik, we dont know the extent of it.

Maybe if you weren't so argumentitive for arguments sake the board you might do a better job with communication.
I posted my opinion that the defensive issues were far greater than Slowick and you repsonded with a resounding No. It's slowicks fault. As I said Slowicks departure maybe fine but switching up DC's as they have done since Robinson is the "lipstick on a pig aproach" without a true talent overhaul. Exactly Lex - what possible example of a Good Broncos Defense do you have to make your point?

[lex]

Maybe if you weren't so argumentitive for arguments sake the board you might do a better job with communication.
I posted my opinion that the defensive issues were far greater than Slowick and you repsonded with a resounding No. It's slowicks fault. As I said Slowicks departure maybe fine but switching up DC's as they have done since Robinson is the "lipstick on a pig aproach" without a true talent overhaul. Exactly Lex - what possible example of a Good Broncos Defense do you have to make your point?

This has already been explained to you by more than one person yet you posture this "argument for arguments sake" nonsense. Some of you are unbelievable with the stuff you will say to save face or re-spin.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

As much as it induces my upchuck reflex, I agree w/ lex on this one. As bad as our FA additions were, they all either got hurt or played themselves onto the bench. This opened the door for the rooks to get their chance. They made the most of it. As a result, an OVERHAUL is now a bit strong. We clearly need to sort out the DLine and get depth, but we have some players...and no more Slowik.

[Lonestar]

As much as it induces my upchuck reflex, I agree w/ lex on this one. As bad as our FA additions were, they all either got hurt or played themselves onto the bench. This opened the door for the rooks to get their chance. They made the most of it. As a result, an OVERHAUL is now a bit strong. We clearly need to sort out the DLine and get depth, but we have some players...and no more Slowik.


Which points out just how far the mighty had fallen.. from a coach talent evaluation point of view or coaching to improve them POV.

and a flat talent issue..

I know that the goodmans have come up with some great kids and while these kids looked like world beaters out there as compared to those they replaced and in one case started a debate on why did we give DJ a huge contract when woody seemed to be just as good and cheaper..


Just how bad have we gotten?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Which points out just how far the mighty had fallen.. from a coach talent evaluation point of view or coaching to improve them POV.

and a flat talent issue..

I know that the goodmans have come up with some great kids and while these kids looked like world beaters out there as compared to those they replaced and in one case started a debate on why did we give DJ a huge contract when woody seemed to be just as good and cheaper..


Just how bad have we gotten?

Because I think the team as a whole got on track when they were allowed to play and when the starters came back in we struggled again. Our D got pretty bad, but many here ahave also made the comment that we'd be legit contenders even w/ an average defense.

[nevcraw]

As much as it induces my upchuck reflex, I agree w/ lex on this one. As bad as our FA additions were, they all either got hurt or played themselves onto the bench. This opened the door for the rooks to get their chance. They made the most of it. As a result, an OVERHAUL is now a bit strong. We clearly need to sort out the DLine and get depth, but we have some players...and no more Slowik.

I see a couple of intriguing prospects but is the foundation of the future defense in place? Hard to prove that argument based on anything we saw in 08.
The DL is weak at best. The LB corp was inconsistant and bad at tacking. dj was hurt, Webster stank, Niko couldn't do it and Winborn was servicable. Larsen and WW have promise but neither yet look like center pieces. The safeties well are future stock boys.. JB maybe a keeper but it's not like he was even stellar as a rookie.
CB is the only servicable area on the defense.
For the most part we have defense filled with situational talent which translates to wildly inconsistant depending on the situation.

[nevcraw]

This has already been explained to you by more than one person yet you posture this "argument for arguments sake" nonsense. Some of you are unbelievable with the stuff you will say to save face or re-spin.

Nothing has been explained. It's called opinions. the fun thing about these discussions is you usually can't prove shit unless it's stats and that is still debatable. It's a matter of each persons POV. You have proven nothning except your main goal is not discuss football but to preen around the board trying to bully your ideas into law.
LOL.. Not sure i have to save face on a anonomous internet message board.
Keep Preening..

[Den21vsBal19]

Only multiple injuries?

Sounds better than our safeties.
Injury prone player........................plus our training staff equals :scared:

[lex]

Nothing has been explained. It's called opinions. the fun thing about these discussions is you usually can't prove shit unless it's stats and that is still debatable. It's a matter of each persons POV. You have proven nothning except your main goal is not discuss football but to preen around the board trying to bully your ideas into law.
LOL.. Not sure i have to save face on a anonomous internet message board.
Keep Preening..


Uh, yes it was. Youre attributing something that wasnt actually said. Again, nice try though at trying to save face.