Interesting observation from a Pats fan about our new pass happy coach.

[lex]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/01/mcdaniels_inter.html


Jared, I saw that last year right away. I knew we would have a tough time with this
16-0 thing with all the stress in the interviews and playing not to lose at times, but what got me right away was we showed the league what we were about right away as if no one could stop us. We completely gave up on the running game, no backs in the back field, and by midseason the league figured us out, and came at Brady full force. We struggled the rest of the season, becoming more of a finesse team, and not able to play well in bad weather. I knew we needed to be more physical this year and we have. Brady or no Brady, we need a running game much like we saw this year to keep the defense honest. Then if Brady lets the backs run more, tabout 40% or more, the defense has to start guessing, making him and Moss in particulary, more dangerous. Phil Simms could score with anyone, and with Parcels he became much more run oriented making him even more dangerous, at least if you want to win the big games. I agree with you. The past two years we are becoming more Peyton like and he was big in the regular season, but in his losses in 8 or so playoff games, his team avg about 12 points in those losses, and they always blamed the ir defense, and Brady's loss being a Manning like QB last year was14 points in the SB. So much for big time regular season offenses.

Shanahan understood this...when he came to Denver, at least.

Quasi 1981 knows what he's talking about.

[silkamilkamonico]

Interesting how McDaniels offenses the last 3 years have been much more run oriented than Shanahan's the last 3 years.

Maybe Shanahan forgetting that philosophy led to his downfall in Denver.

[G_Money]

I'm a little worried about it, lex, but honestly since he retained Dennison and Turner - who understand the tremendous Broncos running game in ways he never would - I have hope that he understands the failures in the run game that hurt the Pats the last couple of years.

He kept the heart of our running team. Now we need a back. If he adds a back, I'll feel better about us understanding the need for a dominant run game to help Jay out.

~G

[MOtorboat]

I'm sorry lex. There's nothing you can do now. McDaniels is the coach here. Spagnuolo is with the Rams.

And frankly, there's nothing you can post that is really going to influence any of this. You're either going to have to deal, or go root for the Rams.

Just being frank.

[TXBRONC]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/01/mcdaniels_inter.html



Shanahan understood this...when he came to Denver, at least.

Quasi 1981 knows what he's talking about.

Apparently McDaniels does have an understanding of the importance of the running game, because the Patriots offense was ranked 6th this past year.

[lex]

Interesting how McDaniels offenses the last 3 years have been much more run oriented than Shanahan's the last 3 years.

Maybe Shanahan forgetting that philosophy led to his downfall in Denver.

I agree but they run it out of the shotgun and not out of base formations. They use the screen to Welker to set up the long pass and the run. Shanahan ran out of base formations and even when teams were knowing this, he would still run. The running game, and the offense in general, wasnt tied so much to a 1 yard pass to a receiver. So yeah, New England has had some success running the ball but Im more interested in running in a way that can win big games as was alluded to in the excerpt I pasted. If you run out of base formations, you have more dimension. Its not all about spreading the field and exploiting mismatches until the other team bleed. The problem with that is that at some point if you run into a team that has an answer for that, you need more dimension than what I typically have seen from NE. This is a big reason why I dont really think NEs past two offenses have been all that in spite of the points.

But I agree with you though. Shanahans approach to the running game and personnel for it was pure hubris. But at least the guy can put together a more sound offense.

[PatricktheDookie]

It's not about running.

It's about being able to run when you need to.

[Dean]

I'm a little worried about it, lex, but honestly since he retained Dennison and Turner - who understand the tremendous Broncos running game in ways he never would - I have hope that he understands the failures in the run game that hurt the Pats the last couple of years.

He kept the heart of our running team. Now we need a back. If he adds a back, I'll feel better about us understanding the need for a dominant run game to help Jay out.

~G

The Broncos in the past run the ball about 500 times a year.

The Pats in 2006 ran 388 times. In 2007, it was only 360. This year with a QB that needed some support they called a sum total of 415 rushes.

Having coaches that understand and can teach the Broncos zone blocking scheme is unimportant if those plays are seldom run outside of practice. The same person that made those play call for the Pats will be on the Broncos sidelines talking into the QBs headset.

:coffee:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Pats showed they will run if necessary. We'll be fine.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm sorry lex. There's nothing you can do now. McDaniels is the coach here. Spagnuolo is with the Rams.

And frankly, there's nothing you can post that is really going to influence any of this. You're either going to have to deal, or go root for the Rams.

Just being frank.

Hi Frank. I'm Randy..

[lex]

It's not about running.

It's about being able to run when you need to.


I disagree with this. It sort of implies that run as much as necessary to win that game each week. Instead of one game, there should be a commitment to the larger picture and the focus should be one beating one team but moreso on putting a team together that any team cant handle The best way to do that is with a running game that can dictate terms.

But to an extent I agree with you. I dont want to hear about running stats when sometimes theyre accumulated by pounding weak teams. Look at Selvin Young against KC last in 2007. Whats more important is to be able to beat a team like Pittsburgh or Baltimore...on the road even. If a team can do that but finishes 8th in rushing, theyre a better running team than a team that finishes second but cant run as well against the teams good against the run.

I guess Bowlen hates the running game. Maybe thats why #30 isnt retired. Maybe he feels the running game took the spotlight from John?

[silkamilkamonico]

The problem with that is that at some point if you run into a team that has an answer for that, you need more dimension than what I typically have seen from NE.

I think it was more Brady's injury he suffered against the Chargers in the AFCCG that led to his average Superbowl.

You can look at the hire in a multitude of ways.

With an offensive coach, it's conceivable to think he might not fix the defense. So we'd have a great offense again with a miserable defense. No change really, other than maybe McDaniles actually holds the defense accountable instead of contineously praising them blindingly.

With a defensive coach, it's entirely concievable to think he can't fix the defense, and with a guy like Spagnuolo wanting to dumb down the offense to help his defense and special teams, now were left with a bad defense, and an average offense.


It's much more likely an offensive guy can come in to an explosive offense already, and help sustain it, than it is to think a defensive guy can come in and fix the defense.

Especially when you're talking about coordinators making the jump to head coaches.

[dogfish]

i am concerned about it, but i'd rather give the guy the benefit of the doubt until we see what he does here, with our personnel-- playing ball control wasn't quite the same necessity in NE with a belichik defense to back him up. . . i'm waiting to see what he does before complaining about it-- there will be plenty of time to crucify him later if he screws it up. . .

[lex]

I think it was more Brady's injury he suffered against the Chargers in the AFCCG that led to his average Superbowl.

You can look at the hire in a multitude of ways.

With an offensive coach, it's conceivable to think he might not fix the defense. So we'd have a great offense again with a miserable defense. No change really, other than maybe McDaniles actually holds the defense accountable instead of contineously praising them blindingly.

With a defensive coach, it's entirely concievable to think he can't fix the defense, and with a guy like Spagnuolo wanting to dumb down the offense to help his defense and special teams, now were left with a bad defense, and an average offense.


It's much more likely an offensive guy can come in to an explosive offense already, and help sustain it, than it is to think a defensive guy can come in and fix the defense.

Especially when you're talking about coordinators making the jump to head coaches.

Even if youre right, that only underscores the flaw in his offense.

[PatricktheDookie]

One thing to remember.

Denver has a quarterback who can throw in poor weather.

[lex]

i am concerned about it, but i'd rather give the guy the benefit of the doubt until we see what he does here, with our personnel-- playing ball control wasn't quite the same necessity in NE with a belichik defense to back him up. . . i'm waiting to see what he does before complaining about it-- there will be plenty of time to crucify him later if he screws it up. . .


I would rather get the ball rolling with the crufcifiction just out of hope that a climate of criticism- and not acquiescence- sill better serve as motivation. I mean, does McDaniels frequent this website? Probably not. But in perpetuating such a climate of honest discourse- one of criticism- you have more people calling in to talk shows, writing the mailbag, etc. The new guys not entitled to anything. He needs to put it together on day 1.

[dogfish]

also. . .

as much as i love a hardnosed running game, i can't help but notice that both carolina and new york failed to win a playoff game this year, while one of the league's most dynamic, prolific passing teams is representing the NFC. . . just sayin'. . . .


there's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to win football games-- i personally would rather see us pound the rock and play tough defense, but if he can be effective and get us where we want i'm not going to complain about style points. . .

[silkamilkamonico]

Even if youre right, that only underscores the flaw in his offense.

I could be right about both guys.

The more I think about it, both McDaniels and Spagnuolo aren't ready to be head coaches, but time will tell.

[lex]

One thing to remember.

Denver has a quarterback who can throw in poor weather.


But they have a QB who makes poor decisions in all weather. Shanahan took the wrong approach in helping Jay. They should have been more focused on the run more. It would have helped Jay and the defense. We put too much at Jays feet.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Lex prolly still has me on ignore. Can someone please tell him he has the Rams head coach as his avy? Thanx in advance.

[Dean]

i am concerned about it, but i'd rather give the guy the benefit of the doubt until we see what he does here, with our personnel-- playing ball control wasn't quite the same necessity in NE with a belichik defense to back him up. . . i'm waiting to see what he does before complaining about it-

Now, that's just procrastination, Dog. The eleventh commandment is to complain now and avoid the rush latter.


- there will be plenty of time to crucify him later if he screws it up. . .

I don't know. These are hard times. We might not be able to afford the nails and wooden cross. I guess we could go Thrift Mart and settle for burning him at the stake. It would be cheap but fulfill our sense of righteousness.

[MOtorboat]

I would rather get the ball rolling with the crufcifiction just out of hope that a climate of criticism- and not acquiescence- sill better serve as motivation. I mean, does McDaniels frequent this website? Probably not. But in perpetuating such a climate of honest discourse- one of criticism- you have more people calling in to talk shows, writing the mailbag, etc. The new guys not entitled to anything. He needs to put it together on day 1.

For someone who hates journalists as much as you do, you should probably realize that our head coach shouldn't be paying attention to ANY fan outlets. Ever.

[lex]

also. . .

as much as i love a hardnosed running game, i can't help but notice that both carolina and new york failed to win a playoff game this year, while one of the league's most dynamic, prolific passing teams is representing the NFC. . . just sayin'. . . .


there's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to win football games-- i personally would rather see us pound the rock and play tough defense, but if he can be effective and get us where we want i'm not going to complain about style points. . .

Puhlease. Arizona was dead in the water at the end of the season. Then in the playoffs, one of the things they have done is be committed to running the ball. They havent been great at it but theyve been effective and the success of their overall balance has allowed them to keep the ball and win the running battle with other teams most of the time.

Also, Carolina was running all over Arizona in their first drive but then after Arizona got a couple of scores, they paniced and forgot they were a running team and put the ball at Delhommes feet. That didnt work out to well. So, in what I just mentioned, you have a pass happy team who has seen more success by, in part, runnin the ball more in the postseason. And in the case of the Panthers, you have a team that lost when they got away from the run.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Unless Fitzgerald is now a tailback, lex makes zero sense.

[Shazam!]

Puhlease. Arizona was dead in the water at the end of the season. Then in the playoffs, one of the things they have done is be committed to running the ball...

Teams were prepared for the pass. So when they ran it it worked.

Also gotta give it to AZ coach Whisenhunt. He had his team motivated, fired up and prepared, something Shanahan hasn't been able to do. Who says first time Coaches don't work out? Tomlin and Whisenhunt are in the SB.

All the talk of the Broncos offense is all speculation. We have no idea what to expect in preseason.

[Bozo Jr.]

Teams were prepared for the pass. So when they ran it it worked.

Also gotta give it to AZ coach Whisenhunt. He had his team motivated, fired up and prepared, something Shanahan hasn't been able to do. Who says first time Coaches don't work out? Tomlin and Whisenhunt are in the SB.

All the talk of the Broncos offense is all speculation. We have no idea what to expect in preseason.

Absolutely! Ever since Al Wilson was released our team has never seemed to get motivated for games, especially home games. :tsk: This rested 100% on Shanahan's shoulders. Any team that is not mentally and physically prepared usually looses.

[honz]

I don't care if we run the ball, throw screen passes every play, or go deep all the time as long as we move the ball down the field. Over the past 2 years McDaniels has shown that he can adapt his scheme to his personnel...he led Brady and company to one of the best seasons ever by an offense and then he led a lifetime backup to an 11-5 record with an offense that had the 6th best running game in the league. It's hard to imagine they were too pass happy when they had the 6th most rushing yards in the league.

Like MB said, your boy Spagnuolo isn't coming to Denver. McDaniels is our coach and he seems to have had great success as a coach on defense, with a pass happy offense, and with a run first offense.

[lex]

Teams were prepared for the pass. So when they ran it it worked.

Also gotta give it to AZ coach Whisenhunt. He had his team motivated, fired up and prepared, something Shanahan hasn't been able to do. Who says first time Coaches don't work out? Tomlin and Whisenhunt are in the SB.

All the talk of the Broncos offense is all speculation. We have no idea what to expect in preseason.

???
OK, did you totally miss what was said about them limping into the playoffs because they were pass happy and then doing better because they re-committed to having more balance?

[Scarface]

For someone who hates journalists as much as you do, you should probably realize that our head coach shouldn't be paying attention to ANY fan outlets. Ever.

If our President is letting Rush get into his dome in week 1 of his term than it's okay for a coach to let media and message board dudes influence him.

[Ziggy]

McDaniels has yet to coach a game as head coach in the NFL. I'm willing to wait and see what kind of head coach he is before I start whining about the way he coaches. He's the Broncos head coach, so he's my guy. Lex, you can pull all the random posts you want to off of other teams message boards and it isn't going to change the fact that the Broncos head coach is McDaniels and not Spagnuolo.

Here's a thought. Support your team. Wait until the head coach gives you a reason to whine before you start whining. Nah, that won't work for you, will it Lex?

[Northman]

Actually, i think the biggest thing that has helped Az in the playoff run is the advantage in the turnover battle. The Az defense has forced 12 Turnovers to just 3 for the Cardinals. And during the regular season in every game except the Dallas game when they win the turnover battle they have won. So i would say its more about them defensively forcing turnovers than it is about them running the ball. However, im sure it doesnt hurt to have more balance but with an offense like their's you cannot afford to turn it over and expect to beat them with or without a running game. So far in the postseason its been their defense making plays when they need too than it has about them having success on the ground.

[lex]

McDaniels has yet to coach a game as head coach in the NFL. I'm willing to wait and see what kind of head coach he is before I start whining about the way he coaches. He's the Broncos head coach, so he's my guy. Lex, you can pull all the random posts you want to off of other teams message boards and it isn't going to change the fact that the Broncos head coach is McDaniels and not Spagnuolo.

Here's a thought. Support your team. Wait until the head coach gives you a reason to whine before you start whining. Nah, that won't work for you, will it Lex?


Wow, someone trying to tell me what it means to be a fan. LOL. Sorry. Thats just not going to work.

[ApaOps5]

Hey was Lex over here having diarrhea of the mouth and melting down when they hired McD? They guy was being a drama Queen over at the Mane.

[lex]

Actually, i think the biggest thing that has helped Az in the playoff run is the advantage in the turnover battle. The Az defense has forced 12 Turnovers to just 3 for the Cardinals. And during the regular season in every game except the Dallas game when they win the turnover battle they have won. So i would say its more about them defensively forcing turnovers than it is about them running the ball. However, im sure it doesnt hurt to have more balance but with an offense like their's you cannot afford to turn it over and expect to beat them with or without a running game. So far in the postseason its been their defense making plays when they need too than it has about them having success on the ground.

Thats a valid point, except for that it dovetails with something I previously said about Carolina losing the game by alienating their running game and putting it on Jake Delhommes arm. Half of Arizona's turnovers came from that one game and its because Carolina gave up on the run way too early.

[Ziggy]

Hey was Lex over here having diarrhea of the mouth and melting down when they hired McD? They guy was being a drama Queen over at the Mane.

Quite often actually. Last year's main whine was about us not drafting a RB in the first round and what a mistake it was to take Clady at 12. This year it looks like it's going to be about the new coach.

[ApaOps5]

And he was dead wrong about Clady so what does that tell you about the coach.

[Northman]

Thats a valid point, except for that it dovetails with something I previously said about Carolina losing the game by alienating their running game and putting it on Jake Delhommes arm. Half of Arizona's turnovers came from that one game and its because Carolina gave up on the run way too early.


Yea, Carolina did give up on the run early but whether or not that was the overall difference i dont know. Thats not that surprising because in most cases teams will have to abandon the run to try and get back in it if they feel the game is slipping away. Quite honestly, it wasnt so much that Carolina gave up on the run as it was that Jake made his mistakes at the worst possible times. I believe when it was 14-7 or whatever it was Carolina that was driving in the redzone and then Delhomme threw the pick at the 2 yd line or something like that. If that particular play doesnt happen and he scores a TD there its probably a much different game from that point. So whether or not the run game would of changed the outcome i dont know. Arizona was ranked 22nd in passing defense so maybe Carolina thought they could exploit that. Either way, 6 turnovers is high and getting 12 turnovers in a postseason is huge to any team making a run.

[broncosinindy]

I would rather get the ball rolling with the crufcifiction just out of hope that a climate of criticism- and not acquiescence- sill better serve as motivation. I mean, does McDaniels frequent this website? Probably not. But in perpetuating such a climate of honest discourse- one of criticism- you have more people calling in to talk shows, writing the mailbag, etc. The new guys not entitled to anything. He needs to put it together on day 1.

So you would have done the same thing with spags. i think not so much

[broncobryce]

I wanted Spags really bad too. But the more I hear and read about our head coach the more I like it. And although it's just an interview, they were talking to Spags on Sirius NFL radio and he said something like "I won't make any promises about success"......so I could see how Pat wasn't impressed by his interview with the team.

[MOtorboat]

So you would have done the same thing with spags. i think not so much

Of course not. Spags has it all figured out.

[Northman]

And although it's just an interview, they were talking to Spags on Sirius NFL radio and he said something like "I won't make any promises about success"......so I could see how Pat wasn't impressed by his interview with the team.

Ouch. Thats a horrible comment when interviewing. :lol:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm betting dude is a big tool who is gravytraining what he did vs NE and thinks after that he can get away w/ doing/saying whatever he wants. just a guess.

[TXBRONC]

Hey was Lex over here having diarrhea of the mouth and melting down when they hired McD? They guy was being a drama Queen over at the Mane.

Hell yes.

[lex]

And he was dead wrong about Clady so what does that tell you about the coach.


What did I say about Clady? Go on. Lets hear it.

[Northman]

At the end of the day the Patriots were beaten last year by a great play by the Qb, not the running back. Had Eli not completed that play and goes down with a sack the Patriots win. As good as the Giant defense played they would not have won without a spectacular play by Manning. The last time a RB even won the MVP in a SB was Terrell Davis. And it isnt even close in regards to importance in big games.

SB MVP Awards:

QB- 22 times
WR- 5 Times
RB- 7 times
Defender- 8 Times
ST- 1 Time

[ApaOps5]

What did I say about Clady? Go on. Lets hear it.

That it was the wrong pick. You wanted your dreamy RB just like how it is in Madden.

[TXBRONC]

And he was dead wrong about Clady so what does that tell you about the coach.

He's never impressed me with his football acumen.

[lex]

That it was the wrong pick. You wanted your dreamy RB just like how it is in Madden.

No, idiot. We've been over this before even recently. Go look up what I actually said about what positions had the most value at 12 last year.

[lex]

He's never impressed me with his football acumen.

Who are you?

[ApaOps5]

Oh my I am already under your skin. Resort to calling names now. You freaked out over the 12th pick being Clady. But not nearly as bad when they didn't hire your man crush Spagnuolo. It just means McDaniels will be a stud. When you freak out its the right move.

[lex]

Oh my I am already under your skin. Resort to calling names now. You freaked out over the 12th pick being Clady. But not nearly as bad when they didn't hire your man crush Spagnuolo. It just means McDaniels will be a stud. When you freak out its the right move.

No, I freaked out when they took Torain. Once again youre wrong. I wasnt thrilled with the Clady pick. I thought they should have been run focused but I didnt really react to the drafting until later.

[ApaOps5]

Alrighty Lex you keep telling yourself that.

[lex]

Alrighty Lex you keep telling yourself that.

It would be better if you would find what youre referring to.

[ApaOps5]

Ok Lex whatever you say.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Just get him to put you on ignore. Life is much easier that way.

[lex]

Ok Lex whatever you say.


So this is what it comes down to? You make a claim you cant substantiate then when called on it you resort to juvenile posturing? I expected no less.

[Lonestar]

McDaniels has yet to coach a game as head coach in the NFL. I'm willing to wait and see what kind of head coach he is before I start whining about the way he coaches. He's the Broncos head coach, so he's my guy. Lex, you can pull all the random posts you want to off of other teams message boards and it isn't going to change the fact that the Broncos head coach is McDaniels and not Spagnuolo.

Here's a thought. Support your team. Wait until the head coach gives you a reason to whine before you start whining. Nah, that won't work for you, will it Lex?


Outstanding post Frankly I do not care as long as he has his team ready to play each week unlike mikey losing games they should have won easily..

DO I want a Superbowl winner each year absolutely but I also realize that 31 other teams/fans do also and of these 31 other team only 8-10 of them will ever be viable teams to compete consistently..
If we run great if we pass first OK by me as frankly having QB with Jays potential would be almost sacrilegious to make him hand the ball off like danny boy did to John for all those years..

IMHO we only have to run enough to keep them honest, kill the clock or get the 3rd and 2 consistently, any more than that I could give a rats rectum about..

that seems to have been NE M.O. since Belichick has been in charge and frankly all there Playoff wins and there almost perfect season i n 2007 kind a proves it works..

so folks lets not worry about how many RB's IF any are going to be drafted and worry about how the new TEAM of coaches are going to fix the SHAMBLES of a defense that mikey left..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Lex reminds me of my best friend. Although i love the guy, his arguing style is infuriating. If ya get the best, he changes the subject to best suit his needs. Then when ya call him on stuff he's said in the past, he says "prove it" knowing very well that it's not worth the time and energy to go hunting for the info. And if ya don't, then he must be the one who is right. Aggravating...and actually pretty sad.

[Mike]

Let's knock off the personal comments guys. Post on topic.

[lex]

Outstanding post Frankly I do not care as long as he has his team ready to play each week unlike mikey losing games they should have won easily..

DO I want a Superbowl winner each year absolutely but I also realize that 31 other teams/fans do also and of these 31 other team only 8-10 of them will ever be viable teams to compete consistently..
If we run great if we pass first OK by me as frankly having QB with Jays potential would be almost sacrilegious to make him hand the ball off like danny boy did to John for all those years..

IMHO we only have to run enough to keep them honest, kill the clock or get the 3rd and 2 consistently, any more than that I could give a rats rectum about..

that seems to have been NE M.O. since Belichick has been in charge and frankly all there Playoff wins and there almost perfect season i n 2007 kind a proves it works..

so folks lets not worry about how many RB's IF any are going to be drafted and worry about how the new TEAM of coaches are going to fix the SHAMBLES of a defense that mikey left..

You must be talking about you and your rat.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

can we start a thread about him?

[Lonestar]

Let's knock off the personal comments guys. Post on topic.


I was just going to say the same thing..


Lets get this back to the topic and less about personalities ..

:focus:

[Lonestar]

can we start a thread about him?

only if you want a time out..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

how long?

j/k...i'll be good.

[omac]

One thing I hope McDaniels won't be is too pass happy. I didn't like how NE didn't stick with the run more during the superbowl against the Giants, and it was getting Brady killed.

I want to see a little less passing, and much more running than Bates was calling this season; true, we had a ton of RB injuries, but as I re-watched the Atlanta game, on 3rd and inches ... inches ... he calls a pass play and Cutler drops back and immediately gets sacked. Sometimes, you've got to go with the predictable play and just run, no matter who your RB is. And please, much less of the sweeps and "surprise" plays.

[Foochacho]

Smilin, you must still be on ignore because he hasn't cried about anything you have said yet.

[TXBRONC]

Who are you?

I'm a person who doesn't try to pass myself off as something I'm not unlike some people. I also try to avoid this: :spam4:

[ApaOps5]

Whats funny is Lex has been called on this post over at the Orange Mane. The Patriots ran the ball significantly more than the Broncos. Yet he is claiming they are pass happy? I thought by now he would be over the devastating loss of Spagnuolo but I guess not.

I for one am excited especially with the coaching staff he assembled.

[lex]

Whats funny is Lex has been called on this post over at the Orange Mane. The Patriots ran the ball significantly more than the Broncos. Yet he is claiming they are pass happy? I thought by now he would be over the devastating loss of Spagnuolo but I guess not.

I for one am excited especially with the coaching staff he assembled.


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/01/mcdaniels_inter.html



Shanahan understood this...when he came to Denver, at least.

Quasi 1981 knows what he's talking about.


I agree but they run it out of the shotgun and not out of base formations. They use the screen to Welker to set up the long pass and the run. Shanahan ran out of base formations and even when teams were knowing this, he would still run. The running game, and the offense in general, wasnt tied so much to a 1 yard pass to a receiver. So yeah, New England has had some success running the ball but Im more interested in running in a way that can win big games as was alluded to in the excerpt I pasted. If you run out of base formations, you have more dimension. Its not all about spreading the field and exploiting mismatches until the other team bleed. The problem with that is that at some point if you run into a team that has an answer for that, you need more dimension than what I typically have seen from NE. This is a big reason why I dont really think NEs past two offenses have been all that in spite of the points.

But I agree with you though. Shanahans approach to the running game and personnel for it was pure hubris. But at least the guy can put together a more sound offense.

These two posts of mine that Im citing are conspicuous in that they were my first two posts in this thread.

Do you even know what youre saying?

[ApaOps5]

Yep I sure do.

[lex]

Yep I sure do.

Go on.

[TXBRONC]

Whats funny is Lex has been called on this post over at the Orange Mane. The Patriots ran the ball significantly more than the Broncos. Yet he is claiming they are pass happy? I thought by now he would be over the devastating loss of Spagnuolo but I guess not.

I for one am excited especially with the coaching staff he assembled.

I'm sure that it has a lot to do with who was behind center, nevertheless McDaniels still seems to understand the value of running the ball effectively.

There isn't one person here who can unequivocally say that Spagnuolo is going to be a great head coach.

[ApaOps5]

Nah I'll let you figure it out.

[ApaOps5]

I'm sure that it has a lot to do with who was behind center, nevertheless McDaniels still seems to understand the value of running the ball effectively.

There isn't one person here who can unequivocally say that Spagnuolo is going to be a great head coach.

Well in defense of Lex you can't say that of McDaniels either. The Broncos had to pass more because of the RB woes.

[TXBRONC]

Well in defense of Lex you can't say that of McDaniels either. The Broncos had to pass more because of the RB woes.

I understand and I thought about adding McDaniels in but I chose not too.

[ApaOps5]

I was just going to say the same thing..


Lets get this back to the topic and less about personalities ..

:focus:

Sorry I missed this when I posted about Lex being upset about Spagnuolo. I will try not delve into personalities.

[lex]

Sorry I missed this when I posted about Lex being upset about Spagnuolo. I will try not delve into personalities.

...meanwhiel, once again, Im still waiting on you to back up what you say.

[Northman]

I for one am excited especially with the coaching staff he assembled.

This is a great point.

Im not sure how to react to McDaniels. I am in unfamiliar territory when it comes to what he might or might not be able to do.

However, i didnt know much about Shanahan when he took over aside from the more obvious things. I didnt know how well he was going to do in Denver but it turned out well all things considered.

One thing i am happy about is that we actually have a BONAFIDE DC here with Nolan. Maybe the talent isnt there yet but we still have the same people who have been bringing us the last two great drafts that we've gotten so im more than confident this team will be heading in the right direction.

Quite honestly, there is very little here that McDaniels can screw up on. The talent is there on offense aside from a dedicated RB workhorse. But i do believe Denver will be addressing that this year. I dont think that McDaniels will go the Shanny route by trying to pretend we can plug in anybody so i would expect some kind of move to land a legitimate back to carry the load followed by using a guy like Young or Alridge for 3rd downs.

He already has his Qb and his WR's with a much improved line so it would be very hard for McD to absolutely lose anything on the offensive side of the ball. But as others have pointed out, lets give the guy a chance before write him off. For all we know maybe Bill had more to do with the pass happy attack in NE instead of McDaniels. Time will tell i guess but every new Coach especially a young one deserves a chance to prove his worth before throwing him back to the wolves. IMO

[ApaOps5]

...meanwhiel, once again, Im still waiting on you to back up what you say.

Nah you aren't worth it. And if I goad you too much you will fire off and get banned.

[Slick]

I think we're fine Lex. I don't think it's very fair of you to start the grill before you even went to buy the steaks, but that's your right.

[lex]

Nah you aren't worth it. And if I goad you too much you will fire off and get banned.


Yeah, you follow me all over the place even when I have you on ignore and youre going to pitch that line. Sorry but what youre saying doesnt reconcile with what youre doing. Put another way" thats just not going to work. LOL. This is a classic example of talking out of both sides of ones mouth.

[ApaOps5]

Yeah, you follow me all over the place even when I have you on ignore and youre going to pitch that line. Sorry but what youre saying doesnt reconcile with what youre doing. Put another way" thats just not going to work. LOL. This is a classic example of talking out of both sides of ones mouth.

If you have me on ignore how do you know what I post? What else do I need to prove. You said NE is pass happy. Yet they passed far less than Denver. I merely pointed that out here. If anything you should be excited as the passing will drop by about 15%.

[TXBRONC]

But as others have pointed out, lets give the guy a chance before write him off. For all we know maybe Bill had more to do with the pass happy attack in NE instead of McDaniels. Time will tell i guess but every new Coach especially a young one deserves a chance to prove his worth before throwing him back to the wolves. IMO

This a great point as well and I wouldn't doubt that Bill had a lot to do with how pass happy the Patriots were in '07. And doesn't mean that McDaniels was just a yes man.

[Slick]

Lex, I just noticed in your mock wishlist/FA list that you don't have us drafting or signing a running back. Do you think we can get it done with the guys already on the roster, or is there a prospect for next year that you have your eye on?

[TXBRONC]

And I can see that youre posting not what youre posting.

Not that ApaOps5 needs me to stick up for him but he's not calling you names, so you need to show the same respect.

[ApaOps5]

Not that ApaOps5 needs me to stick up for him but he's not calling you names, so need show the same respect.

No worries TXBRONC. He and I exchange pleasantries over at Orange Mane. Its a little more free wheeling over there so its force of habit.

I am not taking any offense to it. I like messing with him but he always posts decent Mock draft ideas so its not like he is brainless.

[Northman]

No worries TXBRONC. He and I exchange pleasantries over at Orange Mane. Its a little more free wheeling over there so its force of habit.

I am not taking any offense to it. I like messing with him but he always posts decent Mock draft ideas so its not like he is brainless.

Indeed.

Lex and i dont agree on a lot of things when it comes to needs and priorities but he isnt stupid. He is who he is and we are who we are. Not everybody will agree on everything.

[ApaOps5]

Agreed and I also see his point with the running game. But I say wait until we see what McDaniels does as the Head Coach not the coordinator. With Turner staying there might be that element of the run he desires.

[Lonestar]

OK again I'm going to ask everyone to talk about the new coach and try real hard to stay away from personal attacks..

if you have nothing kind to say about some one stop talking about folks..


:focus:

[ApaOps5]

Ah I didn't take it that we were personally attacking each other, at least him towards me. Just friendly banter heck I even complimented him! I have never done that! :)

[lex]

Lex, I just noticed in your mock wishlist/FA list that you don't have us drafting or signing a running back. Do you think we can get it done with the guys already on the roster, or is there a prospect for next year that you have your eye on?


My view on the RB is this. If we need a RB, and Wells is there, we should take him. If we're going to focus on the defensive side of the ball, it makes more sense to just load up on defense (save perhaps a Center) and then next year target Murray, Spiller or Best in the first. Im glad all these guys are going be back for another year of seasoning. Id like to see all of them carry a larger load, save Best who already does.

[lex]

I'm a person who doesn't try to pass myself off as something I'm not unlike some people. I also try to avoid this: :spam4:

No one is stopping you from offering an opinion.

[Cugel]

Amazing! How can there be so much drama Queen floor show so early in the pre-season! :laugh:

7 pages of posts worried about the OFFENSE!?

And let's see what Spagnolo does with the Rams before we start anointing him as the next great coach.

He did pretty well with players like Michael Strahan, Usi Omenyori, and Justin Tuck. Now we'll see if he can do something with the Rams' bunch of stiffs and castoffs. He has to prove it on the field. Until then it's all speculation.

Here in Denver meanwhile it was the DEFENSE that got Shanny fired. And McDaniels coming in knows that he hasn't won any SB for Pat Bowlen, so his leash is a LOT shorter than Shanahan's was. He has maybe 3 years to put a contending team together or it's "Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more!"

So, what's he going to do? Dismantle the one thing on this team that actually works, the offense and start totally from scratch like the Lions are always doing? :laugh:

Or else leave the offense alone and try and concentrate on finding some defensive players who can stop somebody?! Because I'm betting on the latter.

Already we see the desperate courting of Julius Peppers who would instantly upgrade the defensive front, but will cost several mints and is not exactly YOUNG talent and who will probably be franchised by the Panthers anyway.

I'd be amazed if there's much difference on offense. Perhaps the team will throw more than they did in 2005, but this is a PASS happy league now.

For all the whining about the Patriots they DID manage to win 4 SB championships in this decade with that same offense!

But, it's still DEFENSE that wins championships, and it's the Arizona Cardinals who are (ironically) proving it. Their defense sucked, they won 8 games but lucked into the playoffs.

Just like Indy 2 years ago, people said their defense couldn't stop the run and therefore they had no chance, but their defense suddenly started playing like a championship caliber defense in the playoffs, so they go to the Super Bowl.

Last year the Giants did the same thing. 10-6 during the regular season, start playing dominating defense in the playoffs and win a championship.

Another prime example is the Tampa Bay Bucs dominating the high-scoring Raiders offense in their championship.

I'd stop worrying about the OFFENSE and worry if the Broncos can find a NT. That will determine a LOT more about how the next 2 or 3 years will go than anything McDaniels does on offense!

Because right now in this high-stakes poker game McDaniels is holding the Two-of-nothing, the Three-of-crap, and the Four of Get-out-of-Town. It could be a long season. :coffee:

[Shazam!]

I'm sorry, but Arizona didn't 'luck' into the Playoffs.

As for this whole McDaniels thing, some people don't know anything else but Shanahan running the Broncos. Gotta give McCoach a chance.

If the Broncos even went 8-8, it'd be the same as keeping Shanahan around. I think he'll make Cutler a better QB and help him improve some of his bad decisions.

I believe they'll be much better as the defense will be improved. Even with a middling defense in 2008, Denver would have been in the Playoffs this season. 2009 will be exciting.

[CoachChaz]

Spag did great with his d-line and he has the elements in Long and Carriker, but he cant focus on that anymore. he has to run the whole team. Plus...who was the last defensive minded coach to put together a great defense?

[Ziggy]

Spag did great with his d-line and he has the elements in Long and Carriker, but he cant focus on that anymore. he has to run the whole team. Plus...who was the last defensive minded coach to put together a great defense?

True, and if anyone thinks it's Tomlin, think again. He had a great defense walking in the door.

[MOtorboat]

True, and if anyone thinks it's Tomlin, think again. He had a great defense walking in the door.

Tomlin came from a completely different defense that is run in Pittsburgh (The Tampa-2), I'd say his team management is clearly top notch. And his ability to recognize that he had a good thing going in Pittsburgh, ultimately is what has made that team good now.

[TXBRONC]

Tomlin came from a completely different defense that is run in Pittsburgh (The Tampa-2), I'd say his team management is clearly top notch. And his ability to recognize that he had a good thing going in Pittsburgh, ultimately is what has made that team good now.

I think McDaniels is showing thought process with offense.

[Cugel]

I'm sorry, but Arizona didn't 'luck' into the Playoffs.

As for this whole McDaniels thing, some people don't know anything else but Shanahan running the Broncos. Gotta give McCoach a chance.

If the Broncos even went 8-8, it'd be the same as keeping Shanahan around. I think he'll make Cutler a better QB and help him improve some of his bad decisions.

I believe they'll be much better as the defense will be improved. Even with a middling defense in 2008, Denver would have been in the Playoffs this season. 2009 will be exciting.
Sorry, but 9-7 doesn't usually get you in the playoffs! That's called "luck!" :coffee:

Yes, they got hot once they were in, but normally by the time a team has finished losing 7 times during the regular season they are watching the playoffs on TV!

So, yeah! "Lucky" pretty much sums it up. They took advantage of their good fortune and now are in the SB. :coffee:

As for Cutler making "bad decisions" a lot of that was KNOWING that his defense couldn't stop anybody. So, he HAD to make a play! Third and long? Nobody open? He HAD to "try and make something happen" by throwing into tight coverage, because if he just threw it away, the defense would come out on the field and give up another 80 yard scoring drive and instead of 7 or 10 points down, they'd be down 17.

And he had 7 RBs on IR so it pretty much came down to CUTLER, Marshall and Eddie Royal to make something happen. Defenses knew that and concentrated on doubling Brandon Marshall.

Naturally he threw a lot of picks throwing into coverage. So sometimes it didn't work, but unless he did something to force the first down, they were going to lose anyway. And both he and Shanahan knew it! You didn't see Shanahan getting in Cutler's face for forcing too many throws. He was doing exactly what Shanahan wanted: take chances and try and make something happen and if he throws a pick, get back out there next series and try again, because god knows, his defense wasn't going to keep them in games!

This year if the defense can keep the Broncos in some games and the running game is more reliable, that shouldn't be the case. :coffee:

[DenBronx]

with all the changes we're making on offense and defense i think we will be lucky to be 9-7 next year. our schedule is one of the toughest we have had in a while. i just want to see us beat the chargers like a drum, both times.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Interesting how McDaniels offenses the last 3 years have been much more run oriented than Shanahan's the last 3 years.

Maybe Shanahan forgetting that philosophy led to his downfall in Denver.

But did Shanahan forget that philosophy, or was the Broncos running game last year dictated on the many injuries at running back? I feel it was due to the injuries.

[CoachChaz]

Screw the injuries...quite simply, it doesnt make sense to run the ball 30 times when you are digging yourself out of a 14 point hole in the 2nd half.

[TXBRONC]

with all the changes we're making on offense and defense i think we will be lucky to be 9-7 next year. our schedule is one of the toughest we have had in a while. i just want to see us beat the chargers like a drum, both times.

I haven't been under the impression that we'll be making that many changes to the offense.

I with you on the Chargers. I want see us beat the snot of them. I would really like to see Felicia Rivers planted on backside two or three times in each game.

[Dean]

As for Cutler making "bad decisions" a lot of that was KNOWING that his defense couldn't stop anybody. So, he HAD to make a play! Third and long? Nobody open? He HAD to "try and make something happen" by throwing into tight coverage, because if he just threw it away, the defense would come out on the field and give up another 80 yard scoring drive and instead of 7 or 10 points down, they'd be down 17.

And he had 7 RBs on IR so it pretty much came down to CUTLER, Marshall and Eddie Royal to make something happen. Defenses knew that and concentrated on doubling Brandon Marshall.

Naturally he threw a lot of picks throwing into coverage. So sometimes it didn't work, but unless he did something to force the first down, they were going to lose anyway. And both he and Shanahan knew it! You didn't see Shanahan getting in Cutler's face for forcing too many throws. He was doing exactly what Shanahan wanted: take chances and try and make something happen and if he throws a pick, get back out there next series and try again, because god knows, his defense wasn't going to keep them in games!

This year if the defense can keep the Broncos in some games and the running game is more reliable, that shouldn't be the case. :coffee:

Your arguement sounds good if you didn't include Jay's previous two years. He seems to me to believe that he can throw it hard enough to beat the coverage- single, double, or triple made little difference. Sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. IMO, whether he has a good or poor defense/running game he will attempt to complete every pass.

[Dirk]

Well, remember, Billicheat was the man in charge in Pats land. So this could also play to the way the Pats played the game on offense.

Only time will tell what will happen. Cheer up! I say we are in for a fantastic journey over the next few years...just a gut feeling!!