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Blue Run
01-22-2009, 01:13 AM
Spagnuolo got away but as I informed you, management was split and McD won out - Spagnuolo stuck to his guns and wanted full control - something he basically has with the Rams. He has a very specific plan in mind and wasn't going to get involved in anything other than a team willing to do it his way. I wish the best to both McDaniels and Spagnuolo (although personally I would have liked to see Spagnuolo revamp that DEN defense).

In any event, the purpose of the Broncos forum served its purpose, and I have returned with some Broncos-related draft tidbits from the Senior Bowl, as promised, if there is any interest in them. Business is booming in Mobile right now and there are a lot of strong opinions being floated around by some newcomers.

Shazam!
01-22-2009, 01:20 AM
Spags was my first choice but McD became my first as the interviews went on. Once it was nearly sure it was going to be someone else, he was the best of the bunch. I like his staff moves already, and I'm sure there will be a LOT OF CUTS coming up soon.

I think he and Spags were the best available of the yearly 'Hot Coordinators/Coach' list.

It'll be interesting to see how the NY Jets fare with RR. Brett gtg.

Thanks for your earlier input with Spags.

dogfish
01-22-2009, 01:40 AM
sure, let's hear it. . . i can never get enough draft reports, rumors, info, etc etc. . .

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 02:20 AM
...were LBs Cushing, Maualuga and NT Brace. Also SS Bruton had a strong interview with Donatell and 2 assistants we didn't know. I know Brace personally - he told the Broncos his best position was a 3-4 NT. Interestingly, although he is not at the Senior Bowl, they have shown a lot of interest in the Mizzou S. A scout for the Broncos said today that he went to 4 home games and 2 away games this year just to see Moore - who he had graded as a top 10 pick.

dogfish
01-22-2009, 02:26 AM
...were LBs Cushing, Maualuga and NT Brace. Also SS Bruton had a strong interview with Donatell and 2 assistants we didn't know. I know Brace personally - he told the Broncos his best position was a 3-4 NT. Interestingly, although he is not at the Senior Bowl, they have shown a lot of interest in the Mizzou S. A scout for the Broncos said today that he went to 4 home games and 2 away games this year just to see Moore - who he had graded as a top 10 pick.

cool, thanks for the head's-up. . .


gotta take senior bowl interviews for what they're worth, but that may be more now that shanahan isn't running the show-- he was so paranoid and utterly committed to secrecy that the team rarely if ever even made contact with a prospect they wanted to draft before draft day itself. . . maybe that will change under the current coaching staff. . . talking to those guys just adds to my assumption that they want to switch to a 3-4 as soon as possible. . . it's no secret that we need both LB and safety help-- i'd be thrilled with either of the USC 'backers, and i like moore, although i really think #12 is pretty high for him. . . he's plenty talented, for sure, but if they're targeting him i really hope they try to trade back if possible, because i think he's likely to be available at a lower slot. . .

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 02:43 AM
This Broncos scout expressed concern that Moore could be off the board as high as #6 to CIN. Again, he had him graded as a top 10 pick. (Had received a 9.1 out of 10 on his score sheet - over 2 years of games.) A 9.0 or better is considered a top 10 pick in the Broncos grading system.
FYI, they had Maualuga as an 8.7i, as they have not had the opportunity to see him in space because of the USC scheme. I=incomplete
Cushing is rated a 9.2, but there are steroid concerns with him that date back to his time at Bergen Catholic HS. Not sure if you're aware, but as a HS Junior Cushing was 230 lbs. and ran a 4.5 40. And a NJ HS weight-room legend. The concerns are 2-fold: Does he get busted (and suspended) down the road? Does he go off the juice and lose effectiveness? Is he going to get caught?
I was unable to get their grade on S Bruton, but most scouts feel he is a 2nd round pick. He is expected to test extremely well at the Combine.

CoachChaz
01-22-2009, 08:31 AM
...were LBs Cushing, Maualuga and NT Brace. Also SS Bruton had a strong interview with Donatell and 2 assistants we didn't know. I know Brace personally - he told the Broncos his best position was a 3-4 NT. Interestingly, although he is not at the Senior Bowl, they have shown a lot of interest in the Mizzou S. A scout for the Broncos said today that he went to 4 home games and 2 away games this year just to see Moore - who he had graded as a top 10 pick.

Appreciate the input. It makes sense that Cushing, Rey and Brace would be players of interest and Brace is definately better suited for NT.

What I'm curious about is what scout would watch Moore this season and decide he is top 10 talent based on the way he played THIS season. Based on the games I watched, I would be more prone to say his stock dropped.

G_Money
01-22-2009, 08:32 AM
This Broncos scout expressed concern that Moore could be off the board as high as #6 to CIN. Again, he had him graded as a top 10 pick. (Had received a 9.1 out of 10 on his score sheet - over 2 years of games.) A 9.0 or better is considered a top 10 pick in the Broncos grading system.

Thanks for posting this.

Without Mays from hype-machine USC, I can’t see a safety going that high in this draft.

Moore has injury concerns and a flat senior year, and I adore the kid and think he could be an absolute monster in the pros. He was my favorite safety in the draft even when Mays was supposed to be in it. I just don’t think with an average senior year and a combine that is not likely to match LaRon Landry’s (the last safety to go that high) that he can get that kind of traction up the board. I think this will be more like last year, when the DBs didn’t start til after the top 10 with McKelvin at 11 and Cromartie at 16. The first safety last year was Kenny Phillips at 31 to the G-Men, right?

I don’t think the safeties will last that long without being drafted, but teams like Cincy need too much to be throwing the kind of money the 6th pick will get at a safety. Moore’s gonna make it out of the top 10 IMO, and with an average combine that could be the 20s.

~G

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 08:45 AM
This Broncos scout expressed concern that Moore could be off the board as high as #6 to CIN. Again, he had him graded as a top 10 pick. (Had received a 9.1 out of 10 on his score sheet - over 2 years of games.) A 9.0 or better is considered a top 10 pick in the Broncos grading system.
FYI, they had Maualuga as an 8.7i, as they have not had the opportunity to see him in space because of the USC scheme. I=incomplete
Cushing is rated a 9.2, but there are steroid concerns with him that date back to his time at Bergen Catholic HS. Not sure if you're aware, but as a HS Junior Cushing was 230 lbs. and ran a 4.5 40. And a NJ HS weight-room legend. The concerns are 2-fold: Does he get busted (and suspended) down the road? Does he go off the juice and lose effectiveness? Is he going to get caught?
I was unable to get their grade on S Bruton, but most scouts feel he is a 2nd round pick. He is expected to test extremely well at the Combine.

So this means they think Cushing is a top 10 pick as well :confused:

broncofaninfla
01-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Is Brace worthy of a first round pick? I'm thinking he'll be there in round 2

CoachChaz
01-22-2009, 09:08 AM
So this means they think Cushing is a top 10 pick as well :confused:

I wouldnt assume that. he could be someone they are interested in in the event he were to slide out of the first round.

CoachChaz
01-22-2009, 09:08 AM
Is Brace worthy of a first round pick? I'm thinking he'll be there in round 2

If we spent anything higher than a 3rd on him, I'd be pissed.

G_Money
01-22-2009, 09:15 AM
Yeah, If we get a late 2nd for moving back I’d be okay with Brace there if we're forced to. I can see him getting enough push from scarcity at his position and a good bowl and combine season to get bumped up higher than I’d like.

Otherwise I have him slotted for our 3rd rounder. Taking him with our current 2nd strikes me as too high still.

~G

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 09:44 AM
I wouldnt assume that. he could be someone they are interested in in the event he were to slide out of the first round.

I wouldnt. I think he is a late first, early second. I'm just trying to justify why Moore is a top 10 pick with a 9.1 score, but Cushing has a higher score.

No way either one of them are top 10 picks.

CoachChaz
01-22-2009, 09:52 AM
I wouldnt. I think he is a late first, early second. I'm just trying to justify why Moore is a top 10 pick with a 9.1 score, but Cushing has a higher score.

No way either one of them are top 10 picks.

I agree...but strange things always happen. They may not be talking to them with the intent of taking them with the #12 pick, but...they are definately players of interest and a trade down could happen and make them a smarter pick in a different spot.

Honestly, I think scouts and coaches talk to everyone for different reasons. Sometimes it's interest, sometimes it's smoke and mirrors

G_Money
01-22-2009, 10:04 AM
I didn't think Keith Rivers and Jarrod Mayo were gonna go back-to-back to close out the top-10 last year either, but they did.

Sometimes teams just have needs they feel they can’t wait on. The Saints, for instance, only have one pick in the first 3 rounds this year, right?

So maybe they trade down, or maybe they try to fix a position of need with that pick even if they’re taking a guy a few spots before they “should.”

I thought we reached a bit on Royal, simply because we didn’t have a 3rd and we needed a WR/KR. Turns out we didn’t reach at all, I just had his value a little low.

I’m curious to see how the USC boys break down when they’re not playing next to each other. That’s the fun thing about the All-Star bowls and combine: it’s harder to hide behind whatever other teammates you have. The goal of those teams is to expose you, and for everybody that gets rated too highly because of their “workout warrior” status, there’s also someone who was skating by in college and thought to be a star in the making who just gets rudely exposed.

~G

underrated29
01-22-2009, 12:21 PM
top 10 for moore. I dont like that at all. From what i have seen/ heard he is playing more and more like a 2nd pick. Stuggles in coverage, stiff hips, not enough speed to keep up with the TE.

Not good imo.

Ziggy
01-22-2009, 12:52 PM
...were LBs Cushing, Maualuga and NT Brace. Also SS Bruton had a strong interview with Donatell and 2 assistants we didn't know. I know Brace personally - he told the Broncos his best position was a 3-4 NT. Interestingly, although he is not at the Senior Bowl, they have shown a lot of interest in the Mizzou S. A scout for the Broncos said today that he went to 4 home games and 2 away games this year just to see Moore - who he had graded as a top 10 pick.

William Moore is at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/featur...s/Weigh-In.php

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/01/19/senior.bowl.day1/index.html

Am I misunderstanding your post Blue Run, or are you making ths up as you go along?

ikillz0mbies
01-22-2009, 01:11 PM
Yeah, If we get a late 2nd for moving back I’d be okay with Brace there if we're forced to. I can see him getting enough push from scarcity at his position and a good bowl and combine season to get bumped up higher than I’d like.

Otherwise I have him slotted for our 3rd rounder. Taking him with our current 2nd strikes me as too high still.

~G

Hey G, I was just curious, do you have a mock draft set up? If so, are you willing to share? :D

This can be asked to anyone else here as well. I'm just a little excited for the draft this year (as I am for any other year), so I just want to see who people think the Broncos are going to draft. New coach, new personnel, can't wait to see what players they draft.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 02:13 PM
Sorry for the confusion - I meant the scout isn't there, not Moore...

We heard it straight from Donatell's mouth: Nolan loves DBs and is very particular about what he wants - a brusing SS to play in the box, a rangy FS, and 2 physical press CBs. If he can come away with Moore in round 1, Brace in round 2 and Bruton in round 3, he will be one happy coach.

They are also kicking the tires on Julius Peppers - they want to extend some guys, too, but feel with the draft above and Peppers on the outside, they are in business for a Lombardi, in year 1. There is no rebuilding in the NFL this year, a message McDaniels relayed to his coaching staff in their 1st meeting.

G_Money
01-22-2009, 02:32 PM
In that scenario Moss and Dumervil had better bring home the bacon at OLB, because our lineup would be something like:

DL: Peppers / Brace / Thomas
LB: Moss / Williams / Larsen / Dumervil
DB: Champ / Moore / Bruton / Bly

I’m not against the theory, even though that’s a lot of cheddar to throw at a DE in a scheme different than the one that made him a star, but I’d certainly prefer at least one OLB who can get to a QB and play in space, something neither of those guys has shown he can do.

Also, two of the most interesting players from our 07 draft are Woodyard and Barrett, and this cuts off both of them. I guess I’m not sold that Bruton is that much better than Barrett. Hopefully Nolan watches some tape on the guys we have before he goes making up his mind on our need at safety. I don’t want to go through another year where the wet-behind-the-ears late-rounders and UDFAs are better than the guys starting ahead of em.

~G

underrated29
01-22-2009, 02:35 PM
Blue-

What about the reports that moore is sucking it up out there right now, and is even being considered at LB becuase his Saftey play has been so terrible.


Why not wait until rd 2 for a chung, delmas etc.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 02:51 PM
It is not my intention to discredit available amateur draft resources, but obviously be careful about what you read thru these sources leading up to the draft.
Quite frankly, they are on the outside looking in.
Moore's grade dates back to his entire body of work, and some schematic changes in run responsibility - and a hamstring pull - caused him to have a quiet Senior year. But make no mistake - he is projecting as a team leader defensively and an elite athlete at his position, particularly as a man-C2 deep S, which is Nolan's preferred pass coverage.

In regards to the draft coverage, I would think some Broncos fans would be shocked at DEN's current top 10 list. It's fluid, and I didn't write it down, but they currently have almost 15 players rated as top 10 selections.

Some of the names I have already given you - and the exact order I don't remember.

BTW, Peppers is being viewed as an OLB.
They are preparing to make a big run at him - with the right draft - he could be the guy that pushes them over the top immediately.

From what we've seen, possibly a draft of Moore, Brace and Bruton, with Peppers joining the team as a FA. That is the hot stove Broncos situation.

They've also been keeping tabs on a small-school RB from Liberty, who is looking like a good all-around RB right now. He used to play at PITT.

RunYouOver
01-22-2009, 02:59 PM
Hey Blue...have you heard anything about the possibility of offensive additions?

I know Derrick Ward isn't exactly a guarantee to be back with the Giants, and I heard Denver is one of the teams he is considering...anything on that?

And does this mean no offense in the draft?

G_Money
01-22-2009, 02:59 PM
Moore, Brace, Bruton and Jennings would go a long way toward answering some questions for us.

Letting Peppers play OLB would be fine – Taylor did it and was a monster, and that’s probably what Peppers is looking at. Fighting off heavy guys leaning on you all the time is hard work.

It would leave DJ and Larsen as our interior backers, but that’s not a bad thing.

It would leave the last DE spot to be fought over by basically every DT currently on the roster, but that’s not a bad thing either.

It would likely start a pair of rooks at safety, but that’s doable.

Donatel coming back would bring back the press coverage you were talking about, since that’s what he liked with us before. Bly would probably be less exposed.

And Jennings is a quality RB with a lot of growth potential. In the 3rd or 4th he's good value.

I wouldn’t consider it my Plan A but it’s a workable plan. Thanks for bringin’ it up as a possibility.

~G

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 03:05 PM
sorry for the confusion - i meant the scout isn't there, not moore...

We heard it straight from donatell's mouth: Nolan loves dbs and is very particular about what he wants - a brusing ss to play in the box, a rangy fs, and 2 physical press cbs. If he can come away with moore in round 1, brace in round 2 and bruton in round 3, he will be one happy coach.

They are also kicking the tires on julius peppers - they want to extend some guys, too, but feel with the draft above and peppers on the outside, they are in business for a lombardi, in year 1. There is no rebuilding in the nfl this year, a message mcdaniels relayed to his coaching staff in their 1st meeting.

:barf:

G_Money
01-22-2009, 03:07 PM
:barf:

LOL! :lol: Did something you ate for lunch not agree with you, tagger?

~G

underrated29
01-22-2009, 03:08 PM
well blue run thanks!

Also- if you can tell the guys to keep an eye out for the guy in my sig.

Jerry Seymour.

He should be a UFDA, but i really think he could make a name for himself in the league- not fast on a stopwatch but game speed is pretty good.

Ziggy
01-22-2009, 03:14 PM
I absolutely love the way Jennings runs. He's a huge bruiser, with elusive speed and quickness. If he pulls out a 4.5 at the combine, he'll shoot up the draftboards. He's as strong as an ox, and is a one-cut and go runner who usually ends his runs by trying to put a defender on his backside.

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 03:15 PM
LOL! :lol: Did something you ate for lunch not agree with you, tagger?

~G

I guess I ate moore of that bruton soup than I should have and puked up a little of it.

Two safeties in the first three rounds would kill it for me. I could live with Brace, but if Nolan wants a hard hitting in the box SS, why spend a #12 on one when we basically have that in WW? Then we have Barrett who played very well to end the season with limited experience. He is the rangy FS Nolan wants. I do think we need at least one safety, but when switching to a 3-4, why use up all of our top picks on safeties?

Use what we have this year and then go after safeties next year when there should be some studs available.

Ziggy
01-22-2009, 03:17 PM
We heard it straight from Donatell's mouth: Nolan loves DBs and is very particular about what he wants - a brusing SS to play in the box, a rangy FS, and 2 physical press CBs. If he can come away with Moore in round 1, Brace in round 2 and Bruton in round 3, he will be one happy coach.



No more 10 yard cushion for the opposing WR's? That would improve our 3rd down D by itself, along with making me not want to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon quite so much while watching our D.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 03:24 PM
Quiet on that front. They had some young kid with a Broncos hat looking at the RBs. I know they like the Liberty guy - "the kid" also spent time with Peerman from UVA. Both seem to be similar, all-around backs - both looked strong in pass pro. drills.

RE: Derrick Ward. I know Derrick very well (we are repped by the same company....all I can say) and he is getting some early heat from NE. Haven't heard anything about DEN. DEN is preparing to make a significant offer to Peppers - before Nolan was hired, he made it clear that his scheme would not work without an influx of edge rushers...

They are serious about Peppers, just watch...

To those who are doubting my authenticity - I don't blame you, it's the nature of the beast. Believe it or not, these forums provide a trusted and effective medium. Note that everything I've posted here has been 100% accurate.

Lonestar
01-22-2009, 03:26 PM
No more 10 yard cushion for the opposing WR's? That would improve our 3rd down D by itself, along with making me not want to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon quite so much while watching our D.

hey your being logical here that was not allowed under mikey..

lets see giving someone a 5-7 yards cushion not having any clue on which route they were going to run when it was 3rd and less that 5.. yep that was pure mikey/coyer/slowish.. can't have some MAYBE beating you deep because you jammed them at the LOS.. opposed to allowing automatic first downs all day long..

The morons did not get it everyone in the rest of the world did. but mikey and minions of his did not..

Ziggy
01-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Quiet on that front. They had some young kid with a Broncos hat looking at the RBs. I know they like the Liberty guy - "the kid" also spent time with Peerman from UVA. Both seem to be similar, all-around backs - both looked strong in pass pro. drills.

RE: Derrick Ward. I know Derrick very well (we are repped by the same company....all I can say) and he is getting some early heat from NE. Haven't heard anything about DEN. DEN is preparing to make a significant offer to Peppers - before Nolan was hired, he made it clear that his scheme would not work without an influx of edge rushers...

They are serious about Peppers, just watch...

To those who are doubting my authenticity - I don't blame you, it's the nature of the beast. Believe it or not, these forums provide a trusted and effective medium. Note that everything I've posted here has been 100% accurate.


Blue I don't know if we will ever be able to verify that Spagnola didn't come here because he wanted total controll, but we appreciate any inside info that you can give us. If the Broncos make a big run at Peppers, I'll be convinced. In the mean time, thanks for all the info you've passed along on the upcoming draft. Please keep it coming.

G_Money
01-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Seriously man, it doesn’t matter to me if you know anybody or are making up stuff while reading some websites. It’s interesting, and a valid, realistic viewpoint whether it’s your own or the Broncos’.

Just keep posting. It’s worth tracking and debating, and helps keep us busy and talking during the drag-time between now and the draft. :beer:

Validity will be borne out in time. Conversation will hold us over til then.

~G

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 03:31 PM
I am close with Nolan from his time spent with the Giants as DC in the mid-90's (under Dan Reeves, of course)...

He is tough, no-nonsense and aggressive. His CBs WILL jam at the LOS - that is something he believes in schematically. Timing is everything in NFL offenses - these QBs can run these plays with their eyes shut.
Nolan's philosophy has always been to 1st stuff the run, and 2nd disrupt the timing b/w the QB and WRs.

Another thing that he does, that I like, is matching up his best CB on the opposition's best WR. In other words - he doesn't play "hard corners". He will take Champ Bailey and shadow the other team's #1 WR with him - whether it's LCB, RCB or the slot.

He did that vs. Plaxico Burress the last 2 years (with Nate Clements) and was extremely effective with it. He had Plaxico so frustrated that he was cursing out Tom Coughlin on the sidelines during the game.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 03:35 PM
i still have to say that id like the idea of rey in the first instead or moore. Regardless of how well he plays/played. But you guys know more than i do.


Is rey looking like he will be top 10?

bcbronc
01-22-2009, 03:42 PM
It would leave DJ and Larsen as our interior backers, but that’s not a bad thing.



~G

no love for WWIII on the inside? he's listed as about the same size as Donnie Edwards, who thrived inside in a 3-4. I wouldn't want DJ and WWIII lined up together inside-neither are physical enough to be the run-stuffer imo, but I think WW will have something to say about the interior before it's all said and done.

draft a beast MLB to be the big Mack in the middle and let WW run free to the ball and get deep in pass coverage. Trade DJ for a 2nd and use it to take a NT or a S.


As for Peppers at OLB, I'm not sure I like that. he's obviously a stud and can probably handle the change, but I don't think he'll come cheap. I'm not a big fan of entering a bidding war for a player to ask him to change positions. that said, the coaching staff and Goodmans know more than I do.

G_Money
01-22-2009, 03:44 PM
I guess I ate moore of that bruton soup than I should have and puked up a little of it.

Two safeties in the first three rounds would kill it for me. I could live with Brace, but if Nolan wants a hard hitting in the box SS, why spend a #12 on one when we basically have that in WW? Then we have Barrett who played very well to end the season with limited experience. He is the rangy FS Nolan wants. I do think we need at least one safety, but when switching to a 3-4, why use up all of our top picks on safeties?

Use what we have this year and then go after safeties next year when there should be some studs available.

I agree with you, I wouldn’t spend 2 of my first 3 picks on safeties. Not with the rest of our needs.

But I also wouldn’t spend em on DEs, since we want to see which of our current DL can convert to the position before we go paying a lot of money to one in the draft.

If Peppers comes in to play OLB, then we have one OLB spot open. I’m okay with trying Moss and Doom there, and letting the better of them try to earn their wages.

I don’t mind skipping a MLB and going with DJ and Larsen – that could work out fine. Our new LB coach might help them a lot, actually.

We still have 2 corners, One a HOFer and one a former Pro-Bowler, plus Bell and Jack Williams as backups. I’d like to give Jack another year to figure it out before I go spending an early-rounder on a corner.

So what do you spend your first 3 picks on?

Maualuga? He has questions. Laurinaitis? Same. Raji? Likely won’t be there. Curry? Same. A DE? HUUUUUGE risk, and in the 3-4 ends aren’t as productive, you can get a useful one later. CB? Don’t need one that high. RB? Can get a really good one in the second or 3rd.

If we took Bruton off the board and left it at “Moore at safety, Brace at NT, and Jennings at RB” it’s not flashy…but that’s 3 starters. Moore last year was astoundingly good. Seriously, he was REALLY good. If there’s a good chance he gets back to that, then he is worth a #12-15 pick. I like him better than Kenny Phillips for sure.

Brace in the 2nd is a bit high for me, unless we went back in that round a bit. But he’s a solid mauler at the position. Not a pass-rusher, but Nolan doesn’t need him to be a pass-rusher. He needs him to beat the crap outta the opposing OL and hold them off of DJ and Larsen. Raji’s a penetrator, a disruptor. Brace is a “grab a guy in each hand and become an immovable object” type. I think a high 2nd is over-rating that contribution, but I’d still take it.

And Jennings is my 6th rated RB, and a guy who really will be able to do it all as a pro. Bobby Turner can turn him into a wonder-stud. Matt Forte was the 6th RB taken last year, from a small school with a great work ethic. We could do far worse than Jennings.

Like I said, it wouldn’t be my plan, but it’s an understandable plan, and it patches several holes. Remove one of the safeties from the list and I like it better.

~G

dogfish
01-22-2009, 03:45 PM
Thanks for posting this.

Without Mays from hype-machine USC, I can’t see a safety going that high in this draft.

Moore has injury concerns and a flat senior year, and I adore the kid and think he could be an absolute monster in the pros. He was my favorite safety in the draft even when Mays was supposed to be in it. I just don’t think with an average senior year and a combine that is not likely to match LaRon Landry’s (the last safety to go that high) that he can get that kind of traction up the board. I think this will be more like last year, when the DBs didn’t start til after the top 10 with McKelvin at 11 and Cromartie at 16. The first safety last year was Kenny Phillips at 31 to the G-Men, right?

I don’t think the safeties will last that long without being drafted, but teams like Cincy need too much to be throwing the kind of money the 6th pick will get at a safety. Moore’s gonna make it out of the top 10 IMO, and with an average combine that could be the 20s.

~G


i really think the bungles have to take a long look at OT with their top pick. . .




I am close with Nolan from his time spent with the Giants as DC in the mid-90's (under Dan Reeves, of course)...

He is tough, no-nonsense and aggressive. His CBs WILL jam at the LOS - that is something he believes in schematically. Timing is everything in NFL offenses - these QBs can run these plays with their eyes shut.
Nolan's philosophy has always been to 1st stuff the run, and 2nd disrupt the timing b/w the QB and WRs.

Another thing that he does, that I like, is matching up his best CB on the opposition's best WR. In other words - he doesn't play "hard corners". He will take Champ Bailey and shadow the other team's #1 WR with him - whether it's LCB, RCB or the slot.

He did that vs. Plaxico Burress the last 2 years (with Nate Clements) and was extremely effective with it. He had Plaxico so frustrated that he was cursing out Tom Coughlin on the sidelines during the game.

i love hearing that! in our first game against KC i almost went berserck watching bly get eaten up by bowe on ten yard outs all game long while champ was babysitting the likes of jeff webb on the other side of the field. . .

WTE
01-22-2009, 03:49 PM
They had some young kid with a Broncos hat looking at the RBs.

Was that Josh McDaniels? :lol:

NightTrainLayne
01-22-2009, 03:56 PM
Was that Josh McDaniels? :lol:

No. . his kid brother.

Lonestar
01-22-2009, 04:10 PM
no love for WWIII on the inside? he's listed as about the same size as Donnie Edwards, who thrived inside in a 3-4. I wouldn't want DJ and WWIII lined up together inside-neither are physical enough to be the run-stuffer imo, but I think WW will have something to say about the interior before it's all said and done.

draft a beast MLB to be the big Mack in the middle and let WW run free to the ball and get deep in pass coverage. Trade DJ for a 2nd and use it to take a NT or a S.


As for Peppers at OLB, I'm not sure I like that. he's obviously a stud and can probably handle the change, but I don't think he'll come cheap. I'm not a big fan of entering a bidding war for a player to ask him to change positions. that said, the coaching staff and Goodmans know more than I do.


woodyard admitted on TV (on a local DEN show) he was playing at 212. way to light for an MLB or IMLB

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 04:15 PM
There were ? about Brace's ability to take on double teams because he played next to Raji. Brace has answered the questions (and then some) at the SB. Raji is a phenomenal talent (he is #1 overall player on DEN's board, which is fluid) and Brace has moved up with a great showing. He isn't an athlete, he's just a flat-out mauler. Big, tough and unforgiving. Never does anything but bullrush and trying to "rock" the C back into the QB - in other words, a classic 3-4 NT.

You can see from his time working against top-notch C's at the SB that he will require a double team on almost every play, whether it's a run or pass. It is awesome watching him overwhelm Max Unger and Alex Mack. You can't afford to let him knock your C into your QBs lap on every play.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 04:20 PM
I like Mack a lot too. I really think we have a big need for him. Is Mack on our list at all from what you have seen?

I also wonder what that says about Mack and Unger. Both being toted as some of the best C prosepects to come out in a long while. But both are supposedly being destroyed by brace and raji.

Now i understand that in our system its not the one on ones that matter because our line works as one cohesive unit and that is where our strength lies, but still its something to worry/consider.

broncofaninfla
01-22-2009, 04:21 PM
Blue- has there been any mention of Denver trying to trade any of it's current players or cutting ties with any of it current players?

broncofaninfla
01-22-2009, 04:24 PM
One more Blue- Do you think the Giants will cut ties with Plax?

GEM
01-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Just a question here....but with Wiegman not confirming a return for next year, isn't Center a need?

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 04:29 PM
I agree with you, I wouldn’t spend 2 of my first 3 picks on safeties. Not with the rest of our needs.

But I also wouldn’t spend em on DEs, since we want to see which of our current DL can convert to the position before we go paying a lot of money to one in the draft.

If Peppers comes in to play OLB, then we have one OLB spot open. I’m okay with trying Moss and Doom there, and letting the better of them try to earn their wages.

I don’t mind skipping a MLB and going with DJ and Larsen – that could work out fine. Our new LB coach might help them a lot, actually.

We still have 2 corners, One a HOFer and one a former Pro-Bowler, plus Bell and Jack Williams as backups. I’d like to give Jack another year to figure it out before I go spending an early-rounder on a corner.

So what do you spend your first 3 picks on?

Maualuga? He has questions. Laurinaitis? Same. Raji? Likely won’t be there. Curry? Same. A DE? HUUUUUGE risk, and in the 3-4 ends aren’t as productive, you can get a useful one later. CB? Don’t need one that high. RB? Can get a really good one in the second or 3rd.

If we took Bruton off the board and left it at “Moore at safety, Brace at NT, and Jennings at RB” it’s not flashy…but that’s 3 starters. Moore last year was astoundingly good. Seriously, he was REALLY good. If there’s a good chance he gets back to that, then he is worth a #12-15 pick. I like him better than Kenny Phillips for sure.

Brace in the 2nd is a bit high for me, unless we went back in that round a bit. But he’s a solid mauler at the position. Not a pass-rusher, but Nolan doesn’t need him to be a pass-rusher. He needs him to beat the crap outta the opposing OL and hold them off of DJ and Larsen. Raji’s a penetrator, a disruptor. Brace is a “grab a guy in each hand and become an immovable object” type. I think a high 2nd is over-rating that contribution, but I’d still take it.

And Jennings is my 6th rated RB, and a guy who really will be able to do it all as a pro. Bobby Turner can turn him into a wonder-stud. Matt Forte was the 6th RB taken last year, from a small school with a great work ethic. We could do far worse than Jennings.

Like I said, it wouldn’t be my plan, but it’s an understandable plan, and it patches several holes. Remove one of the safeties from the list and I like it better.

~G


I agree I just hate reaching...and reaching on a safety in the first and then turning around and picking up another safety in the third...I just dont like it.

Unless we are 100% sure on getting Peppers I think one of our day 1's needs to go to an OLB...even if he is a project, like a converted DE, we might as well grab one early because my money is on either Doom or Moss not working out at the position (maybe both) and I think we can get by with what we have at the safety position.

The OLB and NT positions are bigger question marks for me than safety. I can live with DJ and Larsen in the middle and even our current roster at DE, but we do need a day one NT and IMO a day one OLB. If Raji is gone I think Brown is a better prospect than Moore at #12, but I dont know. I'm just leary about bringing in another day 1 pick that might have trouble getting on the field.

With all of our needs you would think it would be easy to pick out a guy at #12 without reaching :confused:

Although I do love Jennings in the third. I think he would flourish here.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 04:31 PM
Just a question here....but with Wiegman not confirming a return for next year, isn't Center a need?



Yes Gem, IMO its a HUGE need!!!

I dont know about hammy taking over at c or lightensteiger.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 04:32 PM
regarding the C's. (Although you'd have to believe they'd be interested.) As mentioned above, the Broncos under Shanahan were famously tight-lipped about draft prospects and you can already see McD's crew not being on that level yet - they are approaching players much more openly.

Jerry Reese (GM of the Giants) operates in the same way - the Giants didn't even have Steve Smith and Kenny Phillips in for interviews - both guys were extremely surprised to be drafted by the Giants. Reese told me "we can usually find out what we need to know without having a formal sit-down." (Which he meant as a Combine, SB or "private visit" after the Pro Days).
They knew all they needed to know about Phillips last year and drafted him without ever meeting with him. (And Spagnuolo really wanted him - and Reese had him as a top15 pick, and was worried if NY showed too much interest, someone would jump ahead and steal him.
They credited their lack of showing any interest in Phillips as the reason he slid all the way to them.

Sorry to bore you with Giants stuff, but it shows there are 2 ways to go about it. They met extensively with Mario Manningham to get a feel for him as a person.

As you know, McD uses a zone blocking scheme so the OL personnel should translate nicely....

1 other nugget as I check my notes (speaking of DEN OL) - the Broncos requested game-film of Shipley and Maybin from PSU during the year - but this was before Shanahan was fired...

GEM
01-22-2009, 04:36 PM
regarding the C's. (Although you'd have to believe they'd be interested.) As mentioned above, the Broncos under Shanahan were famously tight-lipped about draft prospects and you can already see McD's crew not being on that level yet - they are approaching players much more openly.

Jerry Reese (GM of the Giants) operates in the same way - the Giants didn't even have Steve Smith and Kenny Phillips in for interviews - both guys were extremely surprised to be drafted by the Giants. Reese told me "we can usually find out what we need to know without having a formal sit-down." (Which he meant as a Combine, SB or "private visit" after the Pro Days).
They knew all they needed to know about Phillips last year and drafted him without ever meeting with him. (And Spagnuolo really wanted him - and Reese had him as a top15 pick, and was worried if NY showed too much interest, someone would jump ahead and steal him.
They credited their lack of showing any interest in Phillips as the reason he slid all the way to them.

Sorry to bore you with Giants stuff, but it shows there are 2 ways to go about it. They met extensively with Mario Manningham to get a feel for him as a person.

As you know, McD uses a zone blocking scheme so the OL personnel should translate nicely....

1 other nugget as I check my notes (speaking of DEN OL) - the Broncos requested game-film of Shipley and Maybin from PSU during the year - but this was before Shanahan was fired...

Not bored at all. I'm enjoying the reads here. Thanks.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 04:40 PM
The Giants are a family atmosphere moreso than any team in the NFL and would truly like to work with Plaxico to fix his problems and resume his NFL career.
However, it's largely out of their hands - if he goes to jail, TC is not going to wait for him to fill the SE position.
Plax has a big court date 3/29/09 and the Giants are urging him not to postpone it if he has any desire to remain in NY.

In fact, the Giants are currently in talks with CLE about a trade for Braylon Edwards, should Plax be unavailable.

DEN has been approached about a trade for Jarvis Moss, but only a 5th round pick was offered. This was during the season. No other trade talks I'm aware of...

underrated29
01-22-2009, 04:42 PM
regarding the C's. (Although you'd have to believe they'd be interested.) As mentioned above, the Broncos under Shanahan were famously tight-lipped about draft prospects and you can already see McD's crew not being on that level yet - they are approaching players much more openly.

Jerry Reese (GM of the Giants) operates in the same way - the Giants didn't even have Steve Smith and Kenny Phillips in for interviews - both guys were extremely surprised to be drafted by the Giants. Reese told me "we can usually find out what we need to know without having a formal sit-down." (Which he meant as a Combine, SB or "private visit" after the Pro Days).
They knew all they needed to know about Phillips last year and drafted him without ever meeting with him. (And Spagnuolo really wanted him - and Reese had him as a top15 pick, and was worried if NY showed too much interest, someone would jump ahead and steal him.
They credited their lack of showing any interest in Phillips as the reason he slid all the way to them.

Sorry to bore you with Giants stuff, but it shows there are 2 ways to go about it. They met extensively with Mario Manningham to get a feel for him as a person.

As you know, McD uses a zone blocking scheme so the OL personnel should translate nicely....

1 other nugget as I check my notes (speaking of DEN OL) - the Broncos requested game-film of Shipley and Maybin from PSU during the year - but this was before Shanahan was fired...

yeah-keep it up, i like to hear about everything, giants broncs, etc.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 04:45 PM
The Giants are a family atmosphere moreso than any team in the NFL and would truly like to work with Plaxico to fix his problems and resume his NFL career.
However, it's largely out of their hands - if he goes to jail, TC is not going to wait for him to fill the SE position.
Plax has a big court date 3/29/09 and the Giants are urging him not to postpone it if he has any desire to remain in NY.

In fact, the Giants are currently in talks with CLE about a trade for Braylon Edwards, should Plax be unavailable.

DEN has been approached about a trade for Jarvis Moss, but only a 5th round pick was offered. This was during the season. No other trade talks I'm aware of...



a 5th. Wow- thats horrible. i know he hasnt produced, but he has only played 1 full year... We better not let him loose for anything less than a 3rd imo. We need to see more from him. esp if we move to a 3-4

broncofaninfla
01-22-2009, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the feedback Blue. Very intriguing stuff!

Lonestar
01-22-2009, 04:49 PM
a 5th. Wow- thats horrible. i know he hasnt produced, but he has only played 1 full year... We better not let him loose for anything less than a 3rd imo. We need to see more from him. esp if we move to a 3-4

we should have taken it when his trade value was at it's peak..

bcbronc
01-22-2009, 04:53 PM
woodyard admitted on TV (on a local DEN show) he was playing at 212. way to light for an MLB or IMLB

is there some reason he can't put weight on? he's a professional athelete who should be able to put on a solid 5-10lbs in the offseason that will stick all season (come into camp a good 20-25lbs heavier, keep at least 10 of it). crazier things have happened than a playmaker LB at 225lbs. Just have to make sure he's playing beside a big beast to take on guards and fullbacks.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 05:08 PM
There are 2 types of 3-4's: the 1 gap and the 2 gap. Nolan is a 2-gap.

What does it mean? I'm quite familiar with Nolan's M.O. I know for a fact he uses "BMP's" (short for bare minimum parameters) and presented this to the DEN staff. (He presented this to George Young way back when and still uses it today.)

The BMP for his NT is 6'1 325.
The BMP for his DEs is 6'1.5 290.
The BMP for his ILBs is 6'2 250
The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.

Keep in mind, these are the minimum size requirements for each position, on paper. (He will make exceptions for extreme talent but there is a method to his madness.)
Like Parcells, he wants BIG and BAD at every front 7 position (and SS). Just follow his stops along the way and the personnel moves. Then he fills it in with a stud #1 CB (who he shadows the other team's #1 with) and a rangy FS.

The taller, heavier his guys are up front, the better. The more sets of long arms he has, the better. Anything to stuff the run and get into the passing lanes in the front 7, and he's listening.

You can see the moves he made with SF - drafting Manny Lawson, signing a heavy Tully Banta-Cain (and Weaver). A bruiser at SS Lewis. A big slugger in Sopoaga. Super-sized ILBs Spikes and D. Thomas.

Some of it didn't work out, but their size was no accident.

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 05:10 PM
Good then we already have the perfect SS and FS for him.

G_Money
01-22-2009, 05:12 PM
I agree I just hate reaching...and reaching on a safety in the first and then turning around and picking up another safety in the third...I just dont like it.

Unless we are 100% sure on getting Peppers I think one of our day 1's needs to go to an OLB...even if he is a project, like a converted DE, we might as well grab one early because my money is on either Doom or Moss not working out at the position (maybe both) and I think we can get by with what we have at the safety position.


The FA period begins the last couple days of February, and the RFA period is over before the draft, m'man. UFAs go on longer in theory, but not in fact. All the talent is locked up in March. We'll know who we've added before we make our picks - we're not makin' em in the dark.

~G

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 05:14 PM
he wants his LBs HUGE. Tall and big. He is willing to sacrifice mobility for brute toughness and pure size.

The BMP for the ILBs is 6'2, but trust me - he will prefer a 6'3+, 250 lb + ILBs. And would like his OLBs to be 6'5" 270+.

These defensive guys get incredibly detailed and cover all source of small angles in their presentations. He likes tall, hard-hitting guys in the secondary, too: He explains it almost like a zone defense in basketball, everybody gets their hands up and into the throwing lanes - at all costs.

So the taller, the better.

He wants 11 big, tough guys hitting you from all angles and beating you up.

And now, I'm quite certain I may be exposed, so I may have to offer less....trying to change up my writing style a bit...

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 05:21 PM
The FA period begins the last couple days of February, and the RFA period is over before the draft, m'man. UFAs go on longer in theory, but not in fact. All the talent is locked up in March. We'll know who we've added before we make our picks - we're not makin' em in the dark.

~G

I guess I am still in the mindset that Shanny is bringing in the FAs. I should have more confidence in the Goodmans and what they decide collectively with McD and Nolan's input.

RunYouOver
01-22-2009, 05:21 PM
he wants his LBs HUGE. Tall and big. He is willing to sacrifice mobility for brute toughness and pure size.

The BMP for the ILBs is 6'2, but trust me - he will prefer a 6'3+, 250 lb + ILBs. And would like his OLBs to be 6'5" 270+.

These defensive guys get incredibly detailed and cover all source of small angles in their presentations. He likes tall, hard-hitting guys in the secondary, too: He explains it almost like a zone defense in basketball, everybody gets their hands up and into the throwing lanes - at all costs.

So the taller, the better.

He wants 11 big, tough guys hitting you from all angles and beating you up.

And now, I'm quite certain I may be exposed, so I may have to offer less....trying to change up my writing style a bit...


I hate that...but I (as I'm sure many others) do appreciate all the info you've provided.

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 05:22 PM
The BMP for the ILBs is 6'2, but trust me - he will prefer a 6'3+, 250 lb + ILBs. And would like his OLBs to be 6'5" 270+.



Guess we can start shopping Doom...but Moss sounds like he fits the mold (6'6" - 270)

underrated29
01-22-2009, 05:22 PM
what. exposed, by your writing style. Sorry man that doesnt make sense but ok go for it.


Try talking like yoda does. You know, a normal sentence would be - he likes his LB huge 6'11 and 500lbs that can be mean and hit you in the mouth.

Instead try this.

Mean LB does he like. the 6'7 plus range is he. Though shall not shy away from contact, but embrace it in ye ......... ok- never mind.

Thanks for what its worth

Lonestar
01-22-2009, 05:32 PM
is there some reason he can't put weight on? he's a professional athelete who should be able to put on a solid 5-10lbs in the offseason that will stick all season (come into camp a good 20-25lbs heavier, keep at least 10 of it). crazier things have happened than a playmaker LB at 225lbs. Just have to make sure he's playing beside a big beast to take on guards and fullbacks.

He was 220 at the combine put up insane times as the fastest LB there..
came to camp at 230 but wore down to 212 during November when he was on TV..

That is when it counts.. December in the playoffs

I think he would make a better SS playing up near the LOS like Lynch did in his last years.. He is fast enough to play a little deeper and played Safety his first year in college but was moved because they needed LB help where he was all world at KY..

I watched him closely at the combine and thought he would be a 2-3rd rounder at worst.. but I guess the scouts and coaches there saw him as to Small to play LB.. He was not drafted and I was really happy to sign him as a UDFA..

We will see where the new guys put him.. he is a great athlete no doubt

dogfish
01-22-2009, 05:49 PM
The taller, heavier his guys are up front, the better. The more sets of long arms he has, the better. Anything to stuff the run and get into the passing lanes in the front 7, and he's listening.




interesting. . . i told y'all robertson would be too squatty as a 3-4 end. . . . ;)


of course, the truth is that it's simply impossible for him to fill all the positions in the front seven at those requirements this year. . . we don't have a single player at any spot that fits all of those measurements, other than a few guys who can meet the minimum at DE, and none of them are near the 6'5"+ range you really want in a five-tech. . . no way we can bring in seven new starters in the front seven alone, nevermind depth-- especially if we spend three of our top four picks on S and RB. . . :laugh:

i do believe larsen can probably beef up to 250, and possibly DJ as well-- but we'd still need better depth inside, because guys like winborn and boss bailey just aren't physical enough taking on blocks in this type of scheme, not to mention being undersized. . . if brinkley slips due to a bad all-star game performance, i'd be more than happy to see us give hima chance. . .

we don't have anything close to resembling an OLB in the 270 range, let along two or three of 'em. . . moss is more like 240-250, and doom quite clearly isn't 6'2"-- although i would truly hope nolan will make an exception in his case, because short or not i think he could be a beast rushing off the edge and getting favorable matchups. . .

it'll be interesting to see what we do in FA, for sure. . . obviously peppers would fill one of those OLB spots in a big way, but if we can't get him i still think chris canty, gabe watson and karlos dansby are all appealing targets. . .


if nothing else, i'm sure JR will be happy if we bring in some fatties. . . . :lol:

bcbronc
01-22-2009, 05:55 PM
He was 220 at the combine put up insane times as the fastest LB there..
came to camp at 230 but wore down to 212 during November when he was on TV..

That is when it counts.. December in the playoffs

I think he would make a better SS playing up near the LOS like Lynch did in his last years.. He is fast enough to play a little deeper and played Safety his first year in college but was moved because they needed LB help where he was all world at KY..

I watched him closely at the combine and thought he would be a 2-3rd rounder at worst.. but I guess the scouts and coaches there saw him as to Small to play LB.. He was not drafted and I was really happy to sign him as a UDFA..

We will see where the new guys put him.. he is a great athlete no doubt

well, if Blue Run can be trusted there's no chance WW will see time at ILB.

I just don't know what to make of all this. I'm so used to Shanny's small, quick, athletic LBs and DL. I don't know if I can handle a change to a big, mean, punch you in the teeth, back up from no man, type defense. I know that's how a NFL defense is supposed to be, but this is the Broncos we're talking about.

oh man, to have DJ be the shrimp of our front 7 gives me goose bumps.

Lonestar
01-22-2009, 06:38 PM
well, if Blue Run can be trusted there's no chance WW will see time at ILB.

I just don't know what to make of all this. I'm so used to Shanny's small, quick, athletic LBs and DL. I don't know if I can handle a change to a big, mean, punch you in the teeth, back up from no man, type defense. I know that's how a NFL defense is supposed to be, but this is the Broncos we're talking about.

oh man, to have DJ be the shrimp of our front 7 gives me goose bumps.


as I said if he sticks I'd guess at SS (the one closet to the LOS)..


And to Dog I'm not looking for fatties on the team just big fast and muscular lineman always have been in favor of a tab larger than mikey always wanted.... Bunkley would have been a stud a few years back, but we settled for Jay I think instead.. :laugh::laugh:

but someone at 335 plus is going to have some extra weight on them.. if for no other reason energy during workouts and games..

fcspikeit
01-22-2009, 07:26 PM
And now, I'm quite certain I may be exposed, so I may have to offer less....trying to change up my writing style a bit...

Is it a bad thing if your identity gets exposed?

I hope you continue to come here with your insight, I have enjoyed reading this along with your other threads.

For what it’s worth, I do believe you are in the know, In fact, I believe there are many members such as yourself who stop by fan boards to drop hints, just to see how people react and maybe also to vent their frustrations…

We all know, what is said and done inside the confinement of the team walls is meant to stay confined. However, some want to get the truth out, in most cases, the only way they can do that is by signing up on a board such as this..

Anyways, Thanks again for coming here! I look forward to seeing you have posted again and reading what you have to say.. :salute:

I was wondering what your opinions are and also, what you have heard about these guys in regards to the Broncos…

1. Mitch King – Iowa, 6’1” 275 (DT) I believe he could play End for us in the 3-4..
2. Fili Moala – USC 6’5” 305 (DT) I believe he is quick enough to also play End in the 3-4
3. David Veikuna – Haw 6’2’ 255 (DE) He is an interesting prospect for OLB in the 3-4
4. Ellis Lankster WVA 5’9” 191 (S) I really like what I have seen from him and believe he will be a good S in this league, in the mold of Bob Sanders…

Those 4 among others have impressed me from what I have seen of the Senior Bowl practices.

I ask about them in particular because they are not well known or talked about.

Any info you have on them would be greatly appreciated.. :beer:

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 07:27 PM
Just cuz a measureable is ideal, does not mean it's in stone that that is what we will have there. Moss and Elvis will be fine as far as size is concerned if they can adjus. And why couldn't they? A LOT of 3-4 LBs were former college DEs. I think the front 3 all need replaced in the starting lineup if we go 3-4. Robertson at least has experience at NT, but I still want a behemoth. I think LB comes next since we can atleast experimanet w/ MOs and Elvis outside and keep Larsen and DJ inside. I think we may very well already have our Safeties.

Hobe
01-22-2009, 07:36 PM
What does it mean? I'm quite familiar with Nolan's M.O. I know for a fact he uses "BMP's" (short for bare minimum parameters) and presented this to the DEN staff.

The BMP for his NT is 6'1 325.
The BMP for his DEs is 6'1.5 290.
The BMP for his ILBs is 6'2 250
The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.

Keep in mind, these are the minimum size requirements for each position, on paper. (He will make exceptions for extreme talent but there is a method to his madness.)

Just a quick snap shoot of our current roster compared to Nolan's BMPs. If this is not a rebuilding year, then there will have to be a lot of personal changes or a lot of compromises.

The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 260
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 265
Woodyard, Wesley LB 6' 1" 230
Winborn, Jamie LB 5' 11" 230
Green, Louis LB 6' 3" 237
Bailey, Boss LB 6' 3" 232


The BMP for his ILBs is 6'2” 250
Larsen, Spencer FB/LB 6' 2" 240
Williams, D.J. LB 6' 1" 240
Webster, Nate LB 6' 0" 232
Padilla, Manuel LB 6' 3" 245


The BMP for his NT is 6'1” 325.
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 305
Clemons, Nic DT 6' 6" 300
Robertson, Dewayne DT 6' 1" 308
Askew, Matthias DT 6' 5" 302


The BMP for his DEs is 6'1” 290.
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 260
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 275
McBean, Ryan DE 6' 5" 290


Oh and then there is Peppers
Julius Peppers Height: 6’7” 283

Lonestar
01-22-2009, 07:38 PM
Just a quick snap shoot of our current roster compared to Nolan's BMPs. If this is not a rebuilding year, then there will have to be a lot of personal changes or a lot of compromises.

The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 260
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 265
Woodyard, Wesley LB 6' 1" 230
Winborn, Jamie LB 5' 11" 230
Green, Louis LB 6' 3" 237
Bailey, Boss LB 6' 3" 232


The BMP for his ILBs is 6'2” 250
Larsen, Spencer FB/LB 6' 2" 240
Williams, D.J. LB 6' 1" 240
Webster, Nate LB 6' 0" 232
Padilla, Manuel LB 6' 3" 245


The BMP for his NT is 6'1” 325.
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 305
Clemons, Nic DT 6' 6" 300
Robertson, Dewayne DT 6' 1" 308
Askew, Matthias DT 6' 5" 302


The BMP for his DEs is 6'1” 290.
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 260
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 275
McBean, Ryan DE 6' 5" 290


Oh and then there is Peppers
Julius Peppers Height: 6’7” 283

looks like webe sucking hind teat on this one..

fcspikeit
01-22-2009, 07:42 PM
This Broncos scout expressed concern that Moore could be off the board as high as #6 to CIN. Again, he had him graded as a top 10 pick. (Had received a 9.1 out of 10 on his score sheet - over 2 years of games.) A 9.0 or better is considered a top 10 pick in the Broncos grading system.
FYI, they had Maualuga as an 8.7i, as they have not had the opportunity to see him in space because of the USC scheme. I=incomplete





In regards to the draft coverage, I would think some Broncos fans would be shocked at DEN's current top 10 list. It's fluid, and I didn't write it down, but they currently have almost 15 players rated as top 10 selections.

Then the Broncos currently have at least 15 players rated higher then Maualuga?

If that is the case, unless he moves up, there is no way we take him at 12. At least 3 of their top guys will still be on the board when we pick at 12.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 07:42 PM
I think we have our Safeties. To refer to a previous thread, if they don't work out, a certain Tennessee Vol may be available in the 2010 draft.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/27atwater/jbww.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/27atwater/eb-1.jpg

Superchop 7
01-22-2009, 08:32 PM
Hey Blue, need the scoop on Curry. (You can pm)

Doom has the arm length, he will be on the field.

Thanks for the info, feels like it's Christmas.:beer:

Superchop 7
01-22-2009, 08:58 PM
Just a question here....but with Wiegman not confirming a return for next year, isn't Center a need?

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Lich was the highest rated center coming out last year, (a steal), they may be comfy.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Just a quick snap shoot of our current roster compared to Nolan's BMPs. If this is not a rebuilding year, then there will have to be a lot of personal changes or a lot of compromises.

The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 260
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 265
Woodyard, Wesley LB 6' 1" 230
Winborn, Jamie LB 5' 11" 230
Green, Louis LB 6' 3" 237
Bailey, Boss LB 6' 3" 232


6'2" 270, for a 3-4 OLB huh? Look no further than Robert Ayers in the 4th or 5th. His health stuff was in HS and as a frosh. His legal issue aso came as a frosh and he has been squeaky clean ever since. Once he got out of the hood and had some guidance, he seems to have gotten things turned around. A lot like Mayo in 2008, Ayers really stepped up after an up and down career at UT to be a force as a senior. Reminds me of the dude the Steelers drafted from Michigan a couple of years ago.

Robert Ayers
Height: 6-3 | Weight: 270 | 40-Time: 4.75

Strengths:
Adequate size with a solid frame and long arms...Is naturally athletic...Good speed...Very quick with a great burst off the ball...Uses his hands well...Does a nice job of shedding blocks...Might offer some versatility...Emerged as a team leader / captain...Still has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Underachieved early in his career...Doesn't always play with proper leverage...Repertoire of pass rush moves is limited...Motor and work ethic have been questioned...Ran into some trouble off the field...Only one year of starting experience...Low sack totals...Health / Durability

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/27atwater/ra.jpg

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 09:02 PM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/27atwater/ra4.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/27atwater/ra3.jpg

dogfish
01-22-2009, 09:32 PM
I think we have our Safeties. To refer to a previous thread, if they don't work out, a certain Tennessee Vol may be available in the 2010 draft.




aaaand may well be beyond our reach, although it's about a year too early to predict that sort of thing-- but, if he is (and if we don't fill both safety spots this season, either through the draft or by developing barrett or WWIII), taylor mays or myron rolle would be pretty nice consolation prizes. . . .

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 09:35 PM
(and thanks for the kind words). I have no intention of cluttering your message board, if there is no interest in these comments I will cease.

RE: Aaron Curry - a guy most scouts think will be at his best as a 34 ILB. Coy Dennison, who worked as an assistant under Romeo Crennell - and is working now as a private consultant, said he reminded him of a faster D'Qwell Jackson. However, he is not as big as Nolan would prefer and they want square pegs for square holes.

I put some feelers out for some more Broncos news (after all, I can't be everywhere and mainly concentrate on the East coast) and will have a much better update for you in a few hours.

frauschieze
01-22-2009, 09:42 PM
(and thanks for the kind words). I have no intention of cluttering your message board, if there is no interest in these comments I will cease.

That will never happen. Please continue posting.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 09:42 PM
King
Moala
Veikune
Lankster

I haven't heard anything special about the Broncos with these guys.

Checking my notes, some general impressions:

King is an interesting late-round guy, after the athletic tests he will be expected to be an UDFA. He shows good fight but is undersized for Nolan's D.

Moala is an interesting kid - a bit of a party animal, though. According to some of this teammates, he has an abrasive personality and a bit of a hot-head - got arrested 3 times in college in drinking-related offenses that got covered up by the school - twice at fraternity houses and once when he was causing trouble on the UCLA campus.

Veikune was in trouble at HA for selling weed and got off with a slap on the wrist. On talent alone he could be a mid-rounder but he doesn't love football and is actually training for the UFC while he prepares for the draft.

Lankster is a guy who came on late and doesn't have much experience. He is an UFA barring a remarkable offseason.

Requiem / The Dagda
01-22-2009, 09:45 PM
Blue Run, I really appreciate the work you have put into this. I have some friends who have gone to Mobile or are in Mobile, but this is really top notch stuff regardless of how things pan out. Great work.

shank
01-22-2009, 09:50 PM
i heart blue run

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 09:51 PM
I think we have our Safeties. To refer to a previous thread, if they don't work out, a certain Tennessee Vol may be available in the 2010 draft.


Exactly what I am saying...not to mention Mays and possibly Rolle...next year would be the best time to draft a stud safety. Lets address the front 7 this year.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 09:54 PM
There is currently a game at the Mane where ya get points for getting folks to believe fake rumors on other teams' boards.

Just sayin...

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 09:59 PM
These medium's provide a service to us and I just want to return the favor as good-naturedly as I can.

Unfortunately, someone from the other Broncos message board I used to get my Spagnuolo information out tracked my I.P. address and now I am paranoid for my own career. Certain handlers would not want me posting this, while it benefitted others...namely people who benefit me.

LRtagger
01-22-2009, 10:01 PM
There is currently a game at the Mane where ya get points for getting folks to believe fake rumors on other teams' boards.

Just sayin...

Funny you should mention that...I went to some Giants boards looking for a guy flaunting about getting some Broncos fans all hyped up when the whole Spags thread was started...didnt find anything. At least it is good stuff to pass the time with, but I'm not taking any bets based on the info.

fcspikeit
01-22-2009, 10:06 PM
King
Moala
Veikune
Lankster

I haven't heard anything special about the Broncos with these guys.

Checking my notes, some general impressions:

King is an interesting late-round guy, after the athletic tests he will be expected to be an UDFA. He shows good fight but is undersized for Nolan's D.

Moala is an interesting kid - a bit of a party animal, though. According to some of this teammates, he has an abrasive personality and a bit of a hot-head - got arrested 3 times in college in drinking-related offenses that got covered up by the school - twice at fraternity houses and once when he was causing trouble on the UCLA campus.

Veikune was in trouble at HA for selling weed and got off with a slap on the wrist. On talent alone he could be a mid-rounder but he doesn't love football and is actually training for the UFC while he prepares for the draft.

Lankster is a guy who came on late and doesn't have much experience. He is an UFA barring a remarkable offseason.

Thanks!

I am scratching Moala off my list :D...

I thought King showed great fight in the O-line vs D-line drills, He was quick and I thought he done well from the edge.

Veikune did a good job rushing from the edge as well, but he is to small to put his hand in the dirt, if he could make the transition, I think he could have a future in the 3-4 as an OLB.

Lankster did well in coverage drills, he was playing like he had something to prove...

Thanks again for your info...:salute:

Ziggy
01-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Blue Run, you talked about the Broncos going hard after Peppers. Is the general consensus of those in the know that the Panthers are going to let him go to FA?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:22 PM
I call bullshit. I don't think ANYONE will argue that the 3 best 3-4 defenses are NE, Pitt and Bmore. Those highlighted in orange are those who do NOT meet the MINIMUM size requirements as listed in this thread. As much as the DLinemen fit, the LBs aren't even close. And again, these are MINIMUM requirements. Just not buyin it.

The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.
Mike Vrabel 6'4" 261
Adalius Thomas 6'2' 270
LaMaar Woodley 6'2" 265
James Harrison 6'0" 242
Terrell Suggs 6'3" 260

The BMP for his ILBs is 6'2” 250
Jarod Mayo 6'1" 242
Teddy Bruschi 6'1" 247
James Farrior 6'2" 243
Larry Foote 6'1" 240
Ray Lewis 6'1" 250
Bart Scott 6'2" 240

The BMP for his NT is 6'1” 325.
Vince Wilfork 6'2" 325
Casey Hampton 6'1" 325
Haloti Ngata 6'4" 345


The BMP for his DEs is 6'1” 290
Ty Waren 6'5" 300
Richard Seymour 6'6" 310
Aaron Smith 6'5" 298
Brett Kiesel 6'5" 285...but pretty close
Trevor Pryce 6'5" 290
Marques Douglas 6'2" 292

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:25 PM
Funny you should mention that...I went to some Giants boards looking for a guy flaunting about getting some Broncos fans all hyped up when the whole Spags thread was started...didnt find anything. At least it is good stuff to pass the time with, but I'm not taking any bets based on the info.

I mean no offense to the dude if he is for real, but I've basically been progammed/trained to assume everyone is lying. If what he says is true, I will gladly give props and tuck my tail...

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 10:27 PM
This one has been drawn out in public and there's nothing to hide: Peppers wants out of CAR and has no interest in re-signing there. He wants a chance to play OLB in a 3-4 scheme. "He's done all he can in Carolina" said his agent (who is a colleague). "He wants a fresh start."

This is not speculation - Nolan brought this up with PB as they discussed his vision - he needs impact pass rushers on the edge or his D goes to do-do and nobody's happy. DEN wouldn't have hired him if they weren't on board with that.

He had grandiose ideas for Moss but wants a proven pressure player on the edge.

One thing to keep in mind - he flexes back to a 40 front on subpackages, so he still needs his OLBs to be able to put their hand in the dirt.

TXBRONC
01-22-2009, 10:32 PM
This one has been drawn out in public and there's nothing to hide: Peppers wants out of CAR and has no interest in re-signing there. He wants a chance to play OLB in a 3-4 scheme. "He's done all he can in Carolina" said his agent (who is a colleague). "He wants a fresh start."

This is not speculation - Nolan brought this up with PB as they discussed his vision - he needs impact pass rushers on the edge or his D goes to do-do and nobody's happy. DEN wouldn't have hired him if they weren't on board with that.

He had grandiose ideas for Moss but wants a proven pressure player on the edge.

One thing to keep in mind - he flexes back to a 40 front on subpackages, so he still needs his OLBs to be able to put their hand in the dirt.

It sounds interesting, but I have a feeling that we wont make that big of a splash in free agency.

Blue Run
01-22-2009, 10:32 PM
SmilinAssassin, there are 2 schools of thought on the 3-4, a 1 gap and a 2 gap. Lebeau runs a 1 gap (aside from the NT), as does Rex Ryan.

Belichick runs the 2-gap (as does Parcells). Look at the front 7's of the Pats (and Browns under Crennel). That is closer to what Nolan will install.

It doesn't always work perfectly - and Belichick has a slightly different approach to Nolan (and Parcells) at the ILB position.

Parcells is a hoot - refuses to put a LB under 6'3 250 on the field. He made Bradie James gain 20 lbs. in the 1st summer he was there.

Gotta drive back to Boston from NYC. I'll give you guys the other update I promised when I get home, if interested. I kicked the tires of some of my contemporaries for you.

dogfish
01-22-2009, 10:33 PM
FWIW, i just got done talking to a friend of mine who's a die-hard panthers fan, and he says there's been a considerable buzz mounting in the carolina media about the broncos going after peppers. . . this could get veeeery interesting. . . . i just have a hard time seeing them letting him get to FA without any kind of compensation, but you never know i suppose. . . i think it really depends on whether or not they can get gross signed-- if they do, they can resstrict his movement with the tag, even if it's only long enough to get him traded. . . of course they do risk taking a huge cap hit because the contract is guaranteed once he signs it, but i would think it's pretty much a given that they could make a deal for him one way or another, even if they have to take less than full value to get it done. . . it's not so easy to find teams that want to give up high draft picks AND a huge new contract, but look what the chefs got for allen. . .

dogfish
01-22-2009, 10:34 PM
Gotta drive back to Boston from NYC. I'll give you guys the other update I promised when I get home, if interested. I kicked the tires of some of my contemporaries for you.

there's interest, no worries. . . .

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:36 PM
no way in hell we should pay for Peppers AND give up even 1 day 1 pick. Either/or.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 10:36 PM
so you seem to have a lot of knowledge of our team and what they want. Esp since you are an east coast guy, whom would presumably be a giants expert. Im am not going to ask what you do as you would have said by now. My question is how do you get all these other "opposing teams" people to warm up to you to tell you what they want?

Like you said earlier-Mcd isnt as secretive as shanny was regarding picks etc. But whoever you are talking to sure isnt secretive at all. Just seems kinda weird that they would share all this info with you, unless.....

you are just a scouting company that........dam- the kid made a mess and after like 10 min of cleaning it up i lost my train of thought.



I wasnt doggin ya, so please keep posting, i love the updates, i crave them....

What are the giants looking at doing, FA and draft? i am interested to know.

dogfish
01-22-2009, 10:39 PM
I mean no offense to the dude if he is for real, but I've basically been progammed/trained to assume everyone is lying. If what he says is true, I will gladly give props and tuck my tail...


cynical bastage. . . . :D



i take everything with a grain of salt, but i TRY to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise-- if nothing else, throw it in the bag with all the other info out there. . . i wouldn't bet my house on anything ANYONE says this time of year, given the amounts of money involved, but this isn't the first report that we could be interested in peppers, and looking at brace would certainly make sense. . .

Simple Jaded
01-22-2009, 10:40 PM
Don't worry about the Broncos defense, if there is a problem that Doogie can't figure out he can always consult his little brother Dewey.......

underrated29
01-22-2009, 10:41 PM
no way in hell we should pay for Peppers AND give up even 1 day 1 pick. Either/or.

umm i would. Depending on the price and everything a 2nd might be worth it. But i would probably look for like a 3rd and 5th and DROB or something.

Peppers is a man beast- 6'7 300lbs almost and fast and strong. Our D needs all the help we can get and a proven VET is something that will greatly help us out.

We have no leadership on the team, so he could help solve a portion of that too.

NO ONE we draft will be as good as him right away. So a solid draft and peppers might just make us a competator

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:42 PM
cynical bastage. . . . :D



i take everything with a grain of salt, but i TRY to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise-- if nothing else, throw it in the bag with all the other info out there. . . i wouldn't bet my house on anything ANYONE says this time of year, given the amounts of money involved, but this isn't the first report that we could be interested in peppers, and looking at brace would certainly make sense. . .

I get lied to @ 150 tmes per day...and that may not be an exaggeration. I used to be quite open minded and gave people the benefit of the doubt...sometimes too much. NowI basically try to figure out a person's "angle" before we are even done talking.

TXBRONC
01-22-2009, 10:42 PM
FWIW, i just got done talking to a friend of mine who's a die-hard panthers fan, and he says there's been a considerable buzz mounting in the carolina media about the broncos going after peppers. . . this could get veeeery interesting. . . . i just have a hard time seeing them letting him get to FA without any kind of compensation, but you never know i suppose. . . i think it really depends on whether or not they can get gross signed-- if they do, they can resstrict his movement with the tag, even if it's only long enough to get him traded. . . of course they do risk taking a huge cap hit because the contract is guaranteed once he signs it, but i would think it's pretty much a given that they could make a deal for him one way or another, even if they have to take less than full value to get it done. . . it's not so easy to find teams that want to give up high draft picks AND a huge new contract, but look what the chefs got for allen. . .

If Denver actually does sign Peppers I certainly be ecstatic about it, my gut feeling is we wont sign him, but I could find away to live with being wrong.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:43 PM
umm i would. Depending on the price and everything a 2nd might be worth it. But i would probably look for like a 3rd and 5th and DROB or something.

Peppers is a man beast- 6'7 300lbs almost and fast and strong. Our D needs all the help we can get and a proven VET is something that will greatly help us out.

We have no leadership on the team, so he could help solve a portion of that too.

NO ONE we draft will be as good as him right away. So a solid draft and peppers might just make us a competator

Build thru the draft.

Simple Jaded
01-22-2009, 10:45 PM
Build thru the draft.

Technically, if you trade a draft pick, that's using the draft to build your team. :D

There isn't anybody in this draft that's as good as Julius Peppers, that's a safe bet, imo.......

dogfish
01-22-2009, 10:45 PM
I get lied to @ 150 tmes per day...and that may not be an exaggeration. I used to be quite open minded and gave people the benefit of the doubt...sometimes too much. NowI basically try to figure out a person's "angle" before we are even done talking.

not surprising, given your line of work. . . . :lol:

MOtorboat
01-22-2009, 10:47 PM
Sorry if I don't buy a damn word of this...

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:48 PM
Technically, if you trade a draft pick, that's using the draft to build your team. :D

There isn't anybody in this draft that's as good as Julius Peppers, that's a safe bet, imo.......

Possibly not, but a rookie will probably be here longer and cost less. Peppers will break the bank. That will hurt us when it cmes time to resign our offensive youth. JMHO

Steelers seem to do just fine w/o signing big names.

MOtorboat
01-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Possibly not, but a rookie will probably be here longer and cost less. Peppers will break the bank. That will hurt us when it cmes time to resign our offensive youth. JMHO

Steelers seem to do just fine w/o signing big names.

Add the Patriots to that list.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Blue-

Got any info on the WR Sammie Straughter or whatever his name is. The guy in my sig. I dont know if he is even a senior or at the Senior Bowl, but i figured you would probably know about him anyhow...

I havent seen him play yet, but of the reports on him i have read he has the qualities or a wr that i like.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:50 PM
Add the Patriots to that list.

I was gonna, til I considered Randy Moss...but then he was basically given to them by Oak. So yer right.

TXBRONC
01-22-2009, 10:53 PM
Technically, if you trade a draft pick, that's using the draft to build your team. :D

There isn't anybody in this draft that's as good as Julius Peppers, that's a safe bet, imo.......

While that may be true because Peppers is a proven commodity but there are defensive linemen in this draft whom I would be willing to roll the dice on.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 10:54 PM
Possibly not, but a rookie will probably be here longer and cost less. Peppers will break the bank. That will hurt us when it cmes time to resign our offensive youth. JMHO

Steelers seem to do just fine w/o signing big names.


yes you are right, but if we are cleaning house like we all think we are, there is going to be a lot of excess money.. Plus the potential uncapped year next year (i doubt).

And if we bust out another solid draft- we can add 3-4 impact starters for dirt cheap. By the time they roll around to needing contract extensions, peppers will be getting up there in age, or we will have already had his replacement in house.


Jay,marsh,grahm,shceff,doom,champ- those are the guys that will need contracts in the next couple of years....If doom doesnt work out cross him off the list. Graham will most certainly have to restructure or he is gone, scheff wont break the bank cuz he is never completing a season.

So really is jay,brandon and champ- we can add peppers in there easily if you ask me.

MOtorboat
01-22-2009, 10:55 PM
Blue-

Got any info on the WR Sammie Straughter or whatever his name is. The guy in my sig. I dont know if he is even a senior or at the Senior Bowl, but i figured you would probably know about him anyhow...

I havent seen him play yet, but of the reports on him i have read he has the qualities or a wr that i like.

Not invited.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 10:57 PM
not surprising, given your line of work. . . . :lol:

it's not all bad, but it does harden ya a bit. Like I said, I now question everything. I used to let stuff roll off my back figuring life i to short. I still try to that, but I'll admit it is harder lately. Still love the job though...for now. You wouldn't believe the shit I've heard and seen (good and bad). It's straight up crazy.

I'm goin back to chool to get my Masters in Criminal Justice...maybe even law school. I may wanna make a switch and teach at a University or sumthin.

underrated29
01-22-2009, 10:57 PM
Not invited.



LMAO!!

Nuff said.

dogfish
01-22-2009, 11:07 PM
Add the Patriots to that list.


yea, because rodney harrison, corey dillon, junior seau, randy moss and adalius thomas aren't big names. . .


:confused:


they didn't draft wes welker or mike vrabel, either. . . or jabar gaffney, sammy morris, lamont jordan, kelley washington, deltha o'neal, etc etc. . . yea, they do have a tendency to draft well, but they've always supplemeted that liberally with FA pickups (look at guys like rosevelt colvin and ted washington on their earlier SB teams)-- they frequently fill both their LB corps and secondary with FA vets. . . it's true that they tend to go after guys that are somewhat past their prime or second tier type of players, but the belief that they build mostly through the draft is a myth IMO, even if they did draft their top few core players. . . indy would be a much better example. . . .

Simple Jaded
01-22-2009, 11:08 PM
Possibly not, but a rookie will probably be here longer and cost less. Peppers will break the bank. That will hurt us when it cmes time to resign our offensive youth. JMHO

Steelers seem to do just fine w/o signing big names.

Denver has the cap space to add one Big Fish, besides, when it comes time to resign Cutler (Contract expires in 2012) and Clady (2013, I believe), Bailey (2011) , Bly (2012) and Graham (2012) will be off the books.

I'm just not as concerned about this as most people, I guess.

The Stealers, btw, have a proven system in place, the Broncos not so much.......

MOtorboat
01-22-2009, 11:09 PM
yea, because rodney harrison, corey dillon, junior seau, randy moss and adalius thomas aren't big names. . .

We're talking about money, not names.

Thomas was the only big contract there, if I remember correctly, and they inherited Moss' contract, but for a fourth-rounder, I'd take it on.

Scarface
01-22-2009, 11:12 PM
What a thread. Makes me wish I had more time in my day to devote to message boards. Peppers along with a great draft would turn around our D with the quickness. Keep up the great posts Blue!

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2009, 11:16 PM
yea, because rodney harrison, corey dillon, junior seau, randy moss and adalius thomas aren't big names. . .


:confused:


they didn't draft wes welker or mike vrabel, either. . . or jabar gaffney, sammy morris, lamont jordan, kelley washington, deltha o'neal, etc etc. . . yea, they do have a tendency to draft well, but they've always supplemeted that liberally with FA pickups (look at guys like rosevelt colvin and ted washington on their earlier SB teams)-- they frequently fill both their LB corps and secondary with FA vets. . . it's true that they tend to go after guys that are somewhat past their prime or second tier type of players, but the belief that they build mostly through the draft is a myth IMO, even if they did draft their top few core players. . . indy would be a much better example. . . .

And I agree w/ that, bu they don't give up money AND draft pix foranyone. It's either/or.

TXBRONC
01-22-2009, 11:24 PM
What a thread. Makes me wish I had more time in my day to devote to message boards. Peppers along with a great draft would turn around our D with the quickness. Keep up the great posts Blue!

It's a shame that work has to get in the way. :D

Lonestar
01-23-2009, 12:37 AM
Denver has the cap space to add one Big Fish, besides, when it comes time to resign Cutler (Contract expires in 2012) and Clady (2013, I believe), Bailey (2011) , Bly (2012) and Graham (2012) will be off the books.

I'm just not as concerned about this as most people, I guess.

The Stealers, btw, have a proven system in place, the Broncos not so much.......


the steelers have been doing the same stuff for a long time and modification here and then there but basically pretty much the same and once you have a great base of a few players you just look for others to fit in..

right now if we go 3-4 we really have one Champ..and a bunch of "maybe they will fits".. or "maybe they can stick" till their replacements are drafted and trained..

The defense has reached an all time low these past two years.. I would have thought most everyone had figured that out.. all of mikeys energies have been building a offense for almost ever..

Even when they drafted and pretty damned good MLB he wanted to make a FB out of him.. does that not speak wonders?

Shazam!
01-23-2009, 01:11 AM
right now if we go 3-4 we really have one Champ...

Nobody can be 100% positive about anyone on the roster. Nobody even knows if Champ will even be in Denver for the 2009 season. All the player/personnel stuff is up in the air. RB on offense and almost the entire defense has severe deficiencies.

It's to the point that anyone who can get trade value should be pushed, Champ is included unfortunately, though I doubt it. He's the best player in the League and the first Broncos star since John Elway to be the best at his position.

But seriously, if NE, Indy or Dallas knocks on the door about a three team trade so they can acquire Champ, and Denver gets a 1st and a 3rd out of it, many here would take it including myself... maybe.

The defense was/is so bad that gambling with a group of talented rookies in a new more aggressive scheme would be better than the 2007-08 offering. The worst Broncos defense I've ever seen, even worse than 1994? What a disgrace.

Even with a new young defense and scheme, a Head Coach who can actually fire up the troops, a DC who knows what the word 'adjustment' means, a featured Back on an offense with a little tweaking and Denver can easily be a team contending for the playoffs in 2009.

The defense may have finished 26th overall statistically, but they were 30th as far as points surrendered, ahead of only 0-16 Detroit and 2-14 St. Louis. That's embarassing.

Lonestar
01-23-2009, 01:18 AM
Nobody can be 100% positive about anyone on the roster. Nobody even knows if Champ will even be in Denver for the 2009 season. All the player/personnel stuff is up in the air. RB on offense and almost the entire defense has severe deficiencies.

It's to the point that anyone who can get trade value should be pushed, Champ is included unfortunately, though I doubt it. He's the best player in the League and the first Broncos star since John Elway to be the best at his position.

But seriously, if NE, Indy or Dallas knocks on the door about a three team trade so they can acquire Champ, and Denver gets a 1st and a 3rd out of it, many here would take it including myself... maybe.

The defense was/is so bad that gambling with a group of talented rookies in a new more aggressive scheme would be better than the 2007-08 offering. The worst Broncos defense I've ever seen, even worse than 1994? What a disgrace.

Even with a new young defense and scheme, a Head Coach who can actually fire up the troops, a DC who knows what the word 'adjustment' means, a featured Back on an offense with a little tweaking and Denver can easily be a team contending for the playoffs in 2009.

The defense may have finished 26th overall statistically, but they were 30th as far as points surrendered, ahead of only 0-16 Detroit and 2-14 St. Louis. That's embarassing.

sad but true way to many folks have been ostrich's about how bad it really has been in dove valley.. as I said hat off to Pat for having the huevos to make the change.. and it will be radical..

Many of our fans have become fans since mikey has been in town.. they "know nothing" to coin a phrase from Sgt Schultz, other than mikey and his way of doing stuff..

it was a big change when he came to town for the best and I'd guess two years from now everyone will be on board with Mc Kid and crew..

Shazam!
01-23-2009, 01:44 AM
sad but true way to many folks have been ostrich's about how bad it really has been in dove valley.. as I said hat off to Pat for having the huevos to make the change.. and it will be radical..

Many of our fans have become fans since mikey has been in town.. they "know nothing" to coin a phrase from Sgt Schultz, other than mikey and his way of doing stuff..

it was a big change when he came to town for the best and I'd guess two years from now everyone will be on board with Mc Kid and crew..

I will never forget what Shanahan did for our Denver Broncos beginning in 1995... He gave me 3 memorable Seasons I will never forget, when our Broncos were the best team in the NFL. They were the cream of the crop. Even 1996 was a great year though it ended with my family worried about my mental health. He gave us the best 3 year span the Broncos have ever had.

But at the same time, any non-Broncos fan can argue Shanny hasn't proved he can do anything without a superstar QB to build around. He has never had the success without an Elway or a Young. Even Dan Reeves brought Chris Chandler to the Super Bowl, sure they lost but still that team had moxy and deserved our respect. I know, I know, having an elite QB that makes it easy... Right? But Bellichick's Patriots went 11-5 WITHOUT the guy who can be considered the best QB in the NFL today, with some no-name QB nobody ever heard of until Week 1 in 2008, and they kicked the ?!@# out of Denver good. Parcells' teams win whoever is at QB.

If the Broncos can gain a smidgeon of what they do in NE, they'll be fine, even if Shanahan the Traitor goes to KC.

Again for the record, McDaniels staff moves I believe have been EXCELLENT. It bodes well for 2009 thus far.

fcspikeit
01-23-2009, 02:56 AM
I will never forget what Shanahan did for our Denver Broncos beginning in 1995... He gave me 3 memorable Seasons I will never forget, when our Broncos were the best team in the NFL. They were the cream of the crop. Even 1996 was a great year though it ended with my family worried about my mental health. He gave us the best 3 year span the Broncos have ever had.

But at the same time, any non-Broncos fan can argue Shanny hasn't proved he can do anything without a superstar QB to build around. He has never had the success without an Elway or a Young. Even Dan Reeves brought Chris Chandler to the Super Bowl, sure they lost but still that team had moxy and deserved our respect. I know, I know, having an elite QB that makes it easy... Right? But Bellichick's Patriots went 11-5 WITHOUT the guy who can be considered the best QB in the NFL today, with some no-name QB nobody ever heard of until Week 1 in 2008, and they kicked the ?!@# out of Denver good. Parcells' teams win whoever is at QB.

If the Broncos can gain a smidgeon of what they do in NE, they'll be fine, even if Shanahan the Traitor goes to KC.

Again for the record, McDaniels staff moves I believe have been EXCELLENT. It bodes well for 2009 thus far.


I agree with just about everything, except I wouldn't call Shanahan a traitor if he went to KC... He was fired, he has the right to go wherever he feels is the best fit for him...

WARHORSE
01-23-2009, 08:31 AM
There are 2 types of 3-4's: the 1 gap and the 2 gap. Nolan is a 2-gap.

What does it mean? I'm quite familiar with Nolan's M.O. I know for a fact he uses "BMP's" (short for bare minimum parameters) and presented this to the DEN staff. (He presented this to George Young way back when and still uses it today.)

The BMP for his NT is 6'1 325.
The BMP for his DEs is 6'1.5 290.
The BMP for his ILBs is 6'2 250
The BMP for his OLBs is 6'2 270.

Keep in mind, these are the minimum size requirements for each position, on paper. (He will make exceptions for extreme talent but there is a method to his madness.)
Like Parcells, he wants BIG and BAD at every front 7 position (and SS). Just follow his stops along the way and the personnel moves. Then he fills it in with a stud #1 CB (who he shadows the other team's #1 with) and a rangy FS.

The taller, heavier his guys are up front, the better. The more sets of long arms he has, the better. Anything to stuff the run and get into the passing lanes in the front 7, and he's listening.

You can see the moves he made with SF - drafting Manny Lawson, signing a heavy Tully Banta-Cain (and Weaver). A bruiser at SS Lewis. A big slugger in Sopoaga. Super-sized ILBs Spikes and D. Thomas.

Some of it didn't work out, but their size was no accident.

According to these BMPs you listed, the linebackers he drafted and picked up at San Fran fail to meet the BMPs with the sole exception of Ahmad Brooks who didnt start.

Frankly Blue Run, you can correct me if Im wrong, but anyone who drafts or picks up FAs according to a specific minimum SIZE requirement wont be working in the NFL for very long.

Whether 3-4 or 4-3, linebackers need to be able to able to make plays in run support and in space, some positions more than others on particular situations. But to pass on a talent like Patrick Willis simply because of a BMP would be utterly STUPID.

Im glad to see that Nolan is willing to throw his own BMPs out the window when it comes to talent. Talent kicks sizes butt every day of the week.

Banta-Cain, Tully (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=123)

OLB


6-2


265


Brooks, Ahmad (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=205)

ILB


6-3


259


Green, Roderick (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=104)

OLB


6-2


255


Haralson, Parys (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=74)

OLB


6-0


255


Lawson, Manny (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=71)

OLB


6-5


240


Roland, Justin (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=215)

LB


5-11


242


Spikes, Takeo (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=203)

ILB


6-2


242


Ulbrich, Jeff (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=35)

ILB


6-0


240


Willis, Patrick (http://www.49ers.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=126)

ILB


6-1


240




That being said, I think our BMP for linebackers both inside and out should be as follows:

Brings the wood, makes plays, chews teeth, throws body around. INTIMIDATES OPPONENTS.

broncofaninfla
01-23-2009, 10:15 AM
Blue, wanted to say thanks again for the insight. Not sure of your exact capacity but it's obvious you know football and your posts make for some very entertaining reading and discussion. Of course, we have more intrest in Denver news but any insight you can give us on other teams, players and players soon to be drafted is much appreciated.

broncofaninfla
01-23-2009, 10:18 AM
On the Peppers front, there seems to be a strong push by Jacksonville to get Peppers too and sounds like they are switching to the 3/4 too

anton...
01-23-2009, 07:50 PM
this thread is amazing!

Superchop 7
01-23-2009, 08:45 PM
[QUOTE=Blue Run;530920]

RE: Aaron Curry - a guy most scouts think will be at his best as a 34 ILB. Coy Dennison, who worked as an assistant under Romeo Crennell - and is working now as a private consultant, said he reminded him of a faster D'Qwell Jackson. However, he is not as big as Nolan would prefer and they want square pegs for square holes.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Then Nolan is showing why he is stupid in the personell department.

What an idiot.

Terrance Cody is better than Raji.

By a mile.

Curry is a game changer.

No disrespect towards you.

I like Nolan, I hate his moves.........let his record speak.

Blue Run
01-23-2009, 09:31 PM
Very tight-lipped under Jerry Reese, but there's some debris.

James Butler will not be re-signed, Giants are working hard to extend both Jacobs and Ward - have been all season. Bradshaw is a great prospect but will be going back to jail again in the summer and NY hates that - he is unreliable right now and won't stay out of the clubs. (This guy is a piece of work. A bit crazy.)

Plax will not be back if he goes to jail - Reese set up the contract brilliantly so they can recoup most of the $$. He's been fined over 50 times in his 4 years there, and they had to protect themselves w/his recent extension.

The tough situation is team captain Amani Toomer, who is an UFA and the team's all time leading WR. He has lost a step and is not in the teams plans next year. He'll be 34 and the Giants would love him to retire, but he has no plans to do so. He's in phenomenal physical condition, doesn't party much and is a black belt - probably has 3+ years left as a possession guy. But it will not be in NY. He and Steve Smith both play flanker. Smith was the leading WR on the team this year - and is only getting better and better. Smith deserves to the starter in '09.

As stated earlier, they are prepared to offer a 2nd and player+late pick for Braylon Edwards should Plax be convicted and/or suspended in March.

They really like Cushing in the draft - he's a local kid they know all about him. They have been following USC's LBs very closely for 2 years (they also like Clay Matthews) and like taking USC (and Georgia Tech) defenders because of similar systems.
I have heard they also like Brian Robiskie and Marcus Freeman, but Reese is air-tight. It's unbelievable.

slim
01-23-2009, 09:55 PM
P.T. Barnum was right.

ApaOps5
01-23-2009, 10:41 PM
If any of you believed this guy I feel sorry for you. He had Mania eating it up too. Spagnuolo was a horrid interview and its why he ended up in St. Louis. I have my own contacts and they say he didn't even wow the Jets or Broncos.

TXBRONC
01-23-2009, 10:48 PM
If any of you believed this guy I feel sorry for you. He had Mania eating it up too. Spagnuolo was a horrid interview and its why he ended up in St. Louis. I have my own contacts and they say he didn't even wow the Jets or Broncos.

Several of us take it with a grain of salt. It does give us something to talk about.

G_Money
01-23-2009, 10:50 PM
Apa - why does it matter?

It gets us talking, and it's certainly a different perspective.

We can write for a million years on these websites and it won't change the pick the Broncos make. If Blue knows anything, it'll start to become clear and he can get his well-deserved props.

If everything turns out to be smoke and mirrors it helped stimulate discussion and pass the time.

It's a win-win.

We're all just waiting for Free agency and the draft anyway.

I guess I don't understand the need to discredit "internet sources." If he's not getting your credit card numbers to help out that poor Nigerian prince then I'm not sure where the harm is.

Blue's taking the time and effort to either inform us or scam us. Either way, I find it refreshing and a fun, lively way to pass the time.

Since the Broncos don't seem to want to go to the post-season and push these discussions back a few weeks, I have to pass the time some other way. :tsk:

Half of this stuff sounds very plausible and half of it doesn't, but that's part of the fun.

If Peppers signs with us, or is even in serious negotiations this off-season with us, though, this thread's gonna get a LOT of play, so if anybody feels like it's a hoax and they absolutely can't handle people buying in, my advice would be to ignore the thread.

Cuz seriously, the first ESPN headline that narrows Peppers down to us and Green Bay or whatever is gonna seriously blow the board up.

~G

dogfish
01-23-2009, 11:09 PM
exactly, G! maybe there is an exception or two, but i wouldn't say anyone is "eating it up"-- listening to what someone has to say isn't quite the same as taking it as gospel. . . if dude is in the know we're getting some useful info, and if it's a scam, what's the big deal? it's not like i'm rushing out to bet my house on something he said. . . oh wait, though-- i could lose my internet cred if i don't show proper skepticism!! fate worse than death. . .

fcspikeit
01-23-2009, 11:12 PM
If any of you believed this guy I feel sorry for you. He had Mania eating it up too. Spagnuolo was a horrid interview and its why he ended up in St. Louis. I have my own contacts and they say he didn't even wow the Jets or Broncos.

IMO, this guy is way to intelligent to be doing this for kicks, Would you take all the needed time to make all this up just to see if people would believe it?

Besides, I'm with G on this one, even if he is just making all this up, I don't care... Its entertaining reading what he has to say, it's the reason most of us come here in the first place..

I also want to add, even if he is just having fun with us, I hope he sticks around when the joke is over. Nothing he has said has caused any harm, he isn't screwing anyone for his personal gain... If nothing else, I am grateful to him for giving us something else to talk about. I don't know about you but I am really sick of all the, "is Cutler just being a baby?" discussions..

dogfish
01-23-2009, 11:14 PM
IMO, this guy is way to intelligent to be doing this for kicks, Would you take all the needed time to make all this up just to see if people would believe it?

Besides, I'm with G on this one, even if he is just making all this up, I don't care... Its entertaining reading what he has to say, it's the reason most of us come here in the first place..

I also want to add, even if he is just having fun with us, I hope he sticks around when the joke is over. Nothing he has said has caused any harm, he isn't screwing anyone for his personal gain... If nothing else, I am grateful to him for giving us something else to talk about. I don't know about you but I am really sick of all the, "is Cutler just being a baby?" discussions..


let's just pray that nobody offs themself because an internet rumor drives them over the edge. . . . :laugh:

TXBRONC
01-23-2009, 11:16 PM
IMO, this guy is way to intelligent to be doing this for kicks, Would you take all the needed time to make all this up just to see if people would believe it?

Besides, I'm with G on this one, even if he is just making all this up, I don't care... Its entertaining reading what he has to say, it's the reason most of us come here in the first place..

I also want to add, even if he is just having fun with us, I hope he sticks around when the joke is over. Nothing he has said has caused any harm, he isn't screwing anyone for his personal gain... If nothing else, I am grateful to him for giving us something else to talk about. I don't know about you but I am really sick of all the, "is Cutler just being a baby?" discussions..

I'll second that. :salute:

TXBRONC
01-23-2009, 11:18 PM
let's just pray that nobody offs themself because an internet rumor drives them over the edge. . . . :laugh:

There are some pretty fragile psyches around here. :lol:

G_Money
01-23-2009, 11:25 PM
Two words: Grandpa Mariner.

On my old Mariners board there was an old, retired guy who drove around the country in an RV and parked it at Spring Training every year. He got on the boards with us and for about 6 months between the end of the year and through Spring Training he blew the board UP. Became a mod, talked about his part in the invasion at Normandy (he and his guys were shipped to the wrong place, away from the fighting, and had to spend many tense hours listening to the battle going on far away but not being a part of it), he got daily reports from Spring Training for us, talked to guys in the press box...

Thousands of posts.

He had the best ST reports of anybody on the net, for any paper or team. They were awesome.

I went to ST that year and tried to meet up with him, but the only time we were able to schedule he was playing golf with his few remaining war buddies. "There are fewer of them every year, but we still try to get out on the golf course and walk around a bit."

So we missed each other.

Several weeks later, he stopped posting abruptly and we got a message from a relative that he had died in his sleep. They gave us church times and things and never showed up again.

Only there were no services at that church for this guy, and nobody knew him.

We tried to figure out if he was a real person by going off the name he'd given us, the war stuff, anything.

Couldn't find him, or family, or a service, or anything.

So, either his family screwed up AND none of his personal info checked out, and his not being able to ever meet up with anyone from the board even though several people tried was just coincidence...or he was one of the most thorough hoaxes I have ever seen on any board anywhere.

Seriously, hours a day for posts, over months.

Just crazy.

I don't really care which it was, though. Grandpa Mariner was a real guy - I talked to him, and we all shared stories with him, and we drew together around a team.

So I don't care what his name was or whether he scammed us over the Spring Training stuff. I miss him just the same.

And that was some of the best posting time we had on that board, and I remain grateful to him for it, whether his accounts were real or fictional.

The reality of the stories become less important over time.

The reality of the experiences and conversations those stories started were true and vibrant.

"A man tells his stories so many times that he becomes the stories. They live on after him, and in that way he becomes immortal." -- Will Bloom, Big Fish

Tell me a story. ;)

~G

fcspikeit
01-23-2009, 11:28 PM
let's just pray that nobody offs themself because an internet rumor drives them over the edge. . . . :laugh:

Get the car running dog, I just received some inside info about the Broncos, can you say... Championship? lock it down baby!.. Lets go to Vegas and bet the farm.. :laugh:

fcspikeit
01-23-2009, 11:36 PM
Two words: Grandpa Mariner.

On my old Mariners board there was an old, retired guy who drove around the country in an RV and parked it at Spring Training every year. He got on the boards with us and for about 6 months between the end of the year and through Spring Training he blew the board UP. Became a mod, talked about his part in the invasion at Normandy (he and his guys were shipped to the wrong place, away from the fighting, and had to spend many tense hours listening to the battle going on far away but not being a part of it), he got daily reports from Spring Training for us, talked to guys in the press box...

Thousands of posts.

He had the best ST reports of anybody on the net, for any paper or team. They were awesome.

I went to ST that year and tried to meet up with him, but the only time we were able to schedule he was playing golf with his few remaining war buddies. "There are fewer of them every year, but we still try to get out on the golf course and walk around a bit."

So we missed each other.

Several weeks later, he stopped posting abruptly and we got a message from a relative that he had died in his sleep. They gave us church times and things and never showed up again.

Only there were no services at that church for this guy, and nobody knew him.

We tried to figure out if he was a real person by going off the name he'd given us, the war stuff, anything.

Couldn't find him, or family, or a service, or anything.

So, either his family screwed up AND none of his personal info checked out, and his not being able to ever meet up with anyone from the board even though several people tried was just coincidence...or he was one of the most thorough hoaxes I have ever seen on any board anywhere.

Seriously, hours a day for posts, over months.

Just crazy.

I don't really care which it was, though. Grandpa Mariner was a real guy - I talked to him, and we all shared stories with him, and we drew together around a team.

So I don't care what his name was or whether he scammed us over the Spring Training stuff. I miss him just the same.

And that was some of the best posting time we had on that board, and I remain grateful to him for it, whether his accounts were real or fictional.

The reality of the stories become less important over time.

The reality of the experiences and conversations those stories started were true and vibrant.

"A man tells his stories so many times that he becomes the stories. They live on after him, and in that way he becomes immortal." -- Will Bloom, Big Fish

Tell me a story. ;)

~G

G, what do you do for a living?

I have to say, that is one of the best post's I have ever read... You really have a way with words bro :beer: :salute:

fcspikeit
01-24-2009, 12:03 AM
Blue, what have you heard about the plans of the Ravens and their 3 soon to be FA LB's?

Also, do you know anything about what the Titans are planning on doing with Albert Hainsworth, Will he make it to FA?

Have you heard anything about the Broncos in regards to Hainsworth and/or Suggs, Lewis and Scott?

WARHORSE
01-24-2009, 06:15 AM
Two words: Grandpa Mariner.

On my old Mariners board there was an old, retired guy who drove around the country in an RV and parked it at Spring Training every year. He got on the boards with us and for about 6 months between the end of the year and through Spring Training he blew the board UP. Became a mod, talked about his part in the invasion at Normandy (he and his guys were shipped to the wrong place, away from the fighting, and had to spend many tense hours listening to the battle going on far away but not being a part of it), he got daily reports from Spring Training for us, talked to guys in the press box...

Thousands of posts.

He had the best ST reports of anybody on the net, for any paper or team. They were awesome.

I went to ST that year and tried to meet up with him, but the only time we were able to schedule he was playing golf with his few remaining war buddies. "There are fewer of them every year, but we still try to get out on the golf course and walk around a bit."

So we missed each other.

Several weeks later, he stopped posting abruptly and we got a message from a relative that he had died in his sleep. They gave us church times and things and never showed up again.

Only there were no services at that church for this guy, and nobody knew him.

We tried to figure out if he was a real person by going off the name he'd given us, the war stuff, anything.

Couldn't find him, or family, or a service, or anything.

So, either his family screwed up AND none of his personal info checked out, and his not being able to ever meet up with anyone from the board even though several people tried was just coincidence...or he was one of the most thorough hoaxes I have ever seen on any board anywhere.

Seriously, hours a day for posts, over months.

Just crazy.

I don't really care which it was, though. Grandpa Mariner was a real guy - I talked to him, and we all shared stories with him, and we drew together around a team.

So I don't care what his name was or whether he scammed us over the Spring Training stuff. I miss him just the same.

And that was some of the best posting time we had on that board, and I remain grateful to him for it, whether his accounts were real or fictional.

The reality of the stories become less important over time.

The reality of the experiences and conversations those stories started were true and vibrant.

"A man tells his stories so many times that he becomes the stories. They live on after him, and in that way he becomes immortal." -- Will Bloom, Big Fish

Tell me a story. ;)

~G



I happen to be an aquaintance of Pat Bowlens. You all know that I live in Hawaii, but what you dont know is that every once in a while I get to kick it with Bowlen at the Moose Lodge here right next to Kapiolani beach park. Bowlen comes here very often, and very simply to surf and take in the sun. Thats why hes always so tan, and in fact, not fiction he just left here yesterday though I didnt see him. Sometimes he comes for a week at a time, and all he does is surf. When hes not surfing, hes out on the lanai sipping drinks in board shorts with his hairy self in the sun or under a sun shade and the only reason you could know that hes not just one of the other old surf junkies down the beach is because of the way hes treated by the staff here. Im serious, he can do this for an entire week. He absolutely LOVES to long board in Waikiki. (Thats where the Moose Lodge and Kapiolani park are)

Also, both Elway and Shanahan have both been on this very lanai WITH Bowlen..........just not when Ive been here with him.


I first met Bowlen cause a friend of mine from church waited tables here, and we both happened to be there on the same day cause another couple of friends of ours from church, both the groom and the bride, had gotten married, and they staged their reception here at the Moose Lodge.

Yes, Pat Bowlen......and a handful of the older NFL owners...........is a Shriner.

That, is how I came to be a more than one time aquaintance.

My friend that works at the Lodge is named Randy, and he is a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. You old time Freaks will probably remember me talkin about him a few times at BroncosFreaks. Anyways, during the wedding reception of our friends, Randy, who at the time had been telling me Pat Bowlen frequented the Lodge, came big eyed up to me during the reception and told me Bowlen was on the lanai.

I felt for sure he was givin me the gas cause we are huge rivals in all things football. We are VERY competitive. We were actually at the last Philly/Denver football game at Invesco a couple years ago when the Broncos went on to the AFC Championship game. I won a huge bet with him on that game.
Anyways, I thought he was trying to make a fool out of me cause Im such a Broncos nut. But I didnt care, Id rather be made a fool than miss a chance on him being truthful about it and me not getting to meet Bowlen. Randy had waited on Bowlen before and had even told him that his best friend was a huge Broncos for over 30 years. Bowlen told him to introduce us if I were ever around, and Im pretty sure he was just being nice of course.

Though Randy was not working that day of the reception, he had walked out on the lanai and saw Pat. He went to say hello and said he understood if he wanted his privacy, but that I, the 30 year Bronco fan, was there at the wedding reception, and if he would mind if he brought me there to say hello. He said he didnt mind at all.

When I first met Bowlen, he was half lying in the lounge chair with only board shorts on, mid way through the lanai with a Mai Tai on his stomach. That, is why I drink Mai Tais today. Not cause I necessarily love them. The sun was just setting and he had been enjoying it. His eyes were puffy with redness and his hair was out of whack. He looked liked he had gotten out of the water, and found his place in the chair, ordered his first drink.

Here are the exact words of our first exchange, of which I will never forget:

Randy: "Mr Bowlen, Id like you to meet my friend Dale, he is a huge Broncos fan"

Bowlen: " Hey Dale. Nice to met ya." (his EXACT words....MET ya...not MEET ya)
He didnt get up, but he extended his hand, which I shook, and it was wet from his drink.

Me: "Man, I dont know what to say. Nice to meet YOU."

Bowlen:"Have a set."

He wasnt asking. I sat down, and he raised his hand for a sec, then dropped it. Then he turned his head to the left away from me, and by the time his head was done turning, a waiter was standing there.

Bowlen: "Can you please get my friends here some drinks?"
He looked at me, "What would you like?"

Me: "Im sorry, I dont really drink all that much"

Actually, being at the reception, I was NOT going to drink and go back into the reception and face my wife. Its not that I wont have a drink, its just that my wife would not take kindly to drinking on our friends wedding day.

Bowlen: "Sure you do. You drink Mai Tais.......Two Mai Tais."

Waiter: "Right away Mr. Bowlen."

He nodded his head. "Right away." he said softly. Yes, he was buzzing.

Me: "So how is it you come here to the Moose Lodge Mr. Bowlen?"

Bowlen: "Im a Shriner. You know what a Shriner is?"

Me: "Yes sir. My grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason."

At this, he lit up, and this is the reason I am still an aquaintance to this day.

Bowlen: "Really? Im a 33rd. What was your grandfathers name?"

I told him my grandfathers name. (which I will not put here)

Bowlen: "Really?? I know (my grandfathers name). He was in Minneapolis, right?"

Me: "Yes sir."

I'll keep the rest of the dialogue to myself. But in essence, Bowlen knew my grandfather through the work of the Ben Ali Shriners......the Childrens Hospitals, of which he is a member.

BTW. 33rd degree Masons simply do not exist. Very rare to achieve this honor in the Masonic society of brothers, which is the oldest known in the world. Actually, it is not an honor you can 'achieve'. It is simply given. The only other one that I personally know of was Gerald Ford, president of the United States.

Bowlen has great respect for the Shriners Masons and the work they do. He knew and respected my grandfather who had a lifetime of work with the Shriners. They have shared dinners together. And that is the tie that allows me to sit with him at the Moose lodge in Hawaii and share drinks whenever I see him here.

We rarely talk football. We talk surf, life, and problems to solve in society.

This, is not a story.

anton...
01-24-2009, 06:37 AM
This, is not a story.

do you need my credit card details now?

PatricktheDookie
01-24-2009, 06:37 AM
Damn.

Scarface
01-24-2009, 09:09 AM
I happen to be an aquaintance of Pat Bowlens. You all know that I live in Hawaii, but what you dont know is that every once in a while I get to kick it with Bowlen at the Moose Lodge here right next to Kapiolani beach park. Bowlen comes here very often, and very simply to surf and take in the sun. Thats why hes always so tan, and in fact, not fiction he just left here yesterday though I didnt see him. Sometimes he comes for a week at a time, and all he does is surf. When hes not surfing, hes out on the lanai sipping drinks in board shorts with his hairy self in the sun or under a sun shade and the only reason you could know that hes not just one of the other old surf junkies down the beach is because of the way hes treated by the staff here. Im serious, he can do this for an entire week. He absolutely LOVES to long board in Waikiki. (Thats where the Moose Lodge and Kapiolani park are)

Also, both Elway and Shanahan have both been on this very lanai WITH Bowlen..........just not when Ive been here with him.


I first met Bowlen cause a friend of mine from church waited tables here, and we both happened to be there on the same day cause another couple of friends of ours from church, both the groom and the bride, had gotten married, and they staged their reception here at the Moose Lodge.

Yes, Pat Bowlen......and a handful of the older NFL owners...........is a Shriner.

That, is how I came to be a more than one time aquaintance.

My friend that works at the Lodge is named Randy, and he is a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. You old time Freaks will probably remember me talkin about him a few times at BroncosFreaks. Anyways, during the wedding reception of our friends, Randy, who at the time had been telling me Pat Bowlen frequented the Lodge, came big eyed up to me during the reception and told me Bowlen was on the lanai.

I felt for sure he was givin me the gas cause we are huge rivals in all things football. We are VERY competitive. We were actually at the last Philly/Denver football game at Invesco a couple years ago when the Broncos went on to the AFC Championship game. I won a huge bet with him on that game.
Anyways, I thought he was trying to make a fool out of me cause Im such a Broncos nut. But I didnt care, Id rather be made a fool than miss a chance on him being truthful about it and me not getting to meet Bowlen. Randy had waited on Bowlen before and had even told him that his best friend was a huge Broncos for over 30 years. Bowlen told him to introduce us if I were ever around, and Im pretty sure he was just being nice of course.

Though Randy was not working that day of the reception, he had walked out on the lanai and saw Pat. He went to say hello and said he understood if he wanted his privacy, but that I, the 30 year Bronco fan, was there at the wedding reception, and if he would mind if he brought me there to say hello. He said he didnt mind at all.

When I first met Bowlen, he was half lying in the lounge chair with only board shorts on, mid way through the lanai with a Mai Tai on his stomach. That, is why I drink Mai Tais today. Not cause I necessarily love them. The sun was just setting and he had been enjoying it. His eyes were puffy with redness and his hair was out of whack. He looked liked he had gotten out of the water, and found his place in the chair, ordered his first drink.

Here are the exact words of our first exchange, of which I will never forget:

Randy: "Mr Bowlen, Id like you to meet my friend Dale, he is a huge Broncos fan"

Bowlen: " Hey Dale. Nice to met ya." (his EXACT words....MET ya...not MEET ya)
He didnt get up, but he extended his hand, which I shook, and it was wet from his drink.

Me: "Man, I dont know what to say. Nice to meet YOU."

Bowlen:"Have a set."

He wasnt asking. I sat down, and he raised his hand for a sec, then dropped it. Then he turned his head to the left away from me, and by the time his head was done turning, a waiter was standing there.

Bowlen: "Can you please get my friends here some drinks?"
He looked at me, "What would you like?"

Me: "Im sorry, I dont really drink all that much"

Actually, being at the reception, I was NOT going to drink and go back into the reception and face my wife. Its not that I wont have a drink, its just that my wife would not take kindly to drinking on our friends wedding day.

Bowlen: "Sure you do. You drink Mai Tais.......Two Mai Tais."

Waiter: "Right away Mr. Bowlen."

He nodded his head. "Right away." he said softly. Yes, he was buzzing.

Me: "So how is it you come here to the Moose Lodge Mr. Bowlen?"

Bowlen: "Im a Shriner. You know what a Shriner is?"

Me: "Yes sir. My grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason."

At this, he lit up, and this is the reason I am still an aquaintance to this day.

Bowlen: "Really? Im a 33rd. What was your grandfathers name?"

I told him my grandfathers name. (which I will not put here)

Bowlen: "Really?? I know (my grandfathers name). He was in Minneapolis, right?"

Me: "Yes sir."

I'll keep the rest of the dialogue to myself. But in essence, Bowlen knew my grandfather through the work of the Ben Ali Shriners......the Childrens Hospitals, of which he is a member.

BTW. 33rd degree Masons simply do not exist. Very rare to achieve this honor in the Masonic society of brothers, which is the oldest known in the world. Actually, it is not an honor you can 'achieve'. It is simply given. The only other one that I personally know of was Gerald Ford, president of the United States.

Bowlen has great respect for the Shriners Masons and the work they do. He knew and respected my grandfather who had a lifetime of work with the Shriners. They have shared dinners together. And that is the tie that allows me to sit with him at the Moose lodge in Hawaii and share drinks whenever I see him here.

We rarely talk football. We talk surf, life, and problems to solve in society.

This, is not a story.

How come you're not telling everyone about the part where you massaged him ever so gently on the beach as the sun slowly went down? YOU know what I'm talking about....

ApaOps5
01-24-2009, 09:38 AM
HA well okay guys. I stand corrected and yes he does sound very well versed. Carry on!

broncosinindy
01-24-2009, 10:40 AM
After a little reading up on Josh and seeing the way he carries himself. i really do think he will be successful here. I'm a bit timid over the quality of personel we have been getting on the Defensive side of the ball. Until we prove that we can get talent there through the draft i am skeptical.

I'm with most of you guys in that i really dont care if it is true or not. I'm a sucker for a good story. Im with G in that it just passes the time.

Blue..

What is your thoughts on Cody in 2010? think he can handle the punishment and be healthy all year long?

And as to the BMP.. Guys you want guys that are around that size. and sometimes you have to settle for a inch or two or ten lbs to get a football player.

I hope we dont get you in any sort of trouble. if you want you can pass little tidbits to us through another poster and we can always throw stones at him :D

:welcome: 2 :defense:country

Blue Run
01-24-2009, 03:33 PM
Suggs isn't going anywhere - he is the top priority. The Jets are putting together a good offer for Ray, with Ozzie Newsome hoping he'll take a hometown discount to stick around. He is not the same player he was and may have more value to the Jets (to help install) than he would in BAL.

Bart Scott is an excellent LB that I've heard absolutely zero about. I will try to dig something up on Bart, I have been wondering if the Giants would go after him, too.

BTW, a team has approached DEN about trading for D.Robertson. He could be out the door before the draft. A 5th was offered, and it was a division rival.

Blue Run
01-24-2009, 03:34 PM
He would have been the first QB taken this year, had he come out. It surprised us that he went back to school.

Foochacho
01-24-2009, 04:05 PM
I would gladly take a 5th from a division rival. being a rival makes it that much better less picks they can work with. Dwayne won't stick if we go 3-4 anyway.

underrated29
01-24-2009, 04:08 PM
Suggs isn't going anywhere - he is the top priority. The Jets are putting together a good offer for Ray, with Ozzie Newsome hoping he'll take a hometown discount to stick around. He is not the same player he was and may have more value to the Jets (to help install) than he would in BAL.

Bart Scott is an excellent LB that I've heard absolutely zero about. I will try to dig something up on Bart, I have been wondering if the Giants would go after him, too.

BTW, a team has approached DEN about trading for D.Robertson. He could be out the door before the draft. A 5th was offered, and it was a division rival.

must have been the raiders.

Lonestar
01-24-2009, 05:21 PM
must have been the raiders.


anything we could get from him and be able to dump his contract, I do it in a heart beat, he will only play 50% of the time anyway..

TXBRONC
01-24-2009, 05:30 PM
must have been the raiders.

That seems the most plausible, but I don't put a lot of stock in it.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-24-2009, 05:34 PM
I agree...However, if this does happen, Run may have bnought himself some credit.

lex
01-24-2009, 05:34 PM
I would gladly take a 5th from a division rival. being a rival makes it that much better less picks they can work with. Dwayne won't stick if we go 3-4 anyway.

Plus the two 4-3 teams pick in the top 10 so it will be a high 5th. That would give us 4 5ths (I think). Id almost rather trade up into the 4th.

lex
01-24-2009, 05:35 PM
must have been the raiders.

Why not the Chiefs? Are you saying that because theyve invested a lot there in the draft?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-24-2009, 05:36 PM
One draftsite had the Holland trade as a 5th in 2010? Is that true? I thought it was 2009.

underrated29
01-24-2009, 05:55 PM
Why not the Chiefs? Are you saying that because theyve invested a lot there in the draft?

No, but thats a good point.

i was going by the raiders always are eating up other peoples lineman on OL and DL- they have 2 broncos players on their oline- cornell green and someone else. and on dl they took warren from us and signed kwame harris???

or someone like that.

And their lines ol and DL still suck. The cheifs have been pretty good about drafting solid guys-the faid- not so much

thats why i thought raiders.

dogfish
01-24-2009, 06:00 PM
One draftsite had the Holland trade as a 5th in 2010? Is that true? I thought it was 2009.

yea, 2010 is correct. . . .

Ziggy
01-24-2009, 06:03 PM
I believe we only have 2 5th rd picks this season don't we? I know that we have a possible extra 7th, that could move up, but as of right now, just 2 5th rounders. If we picked up another, anyone have the details as to why?

edit: the pending 7th rounder is for Foxworth. It's my understanding that it can go higher if Atlanta resigns him.

Foochacho
01-24-2009, 08:19 PM
I doubt it's the Chiefs they just dumped their HC. I think they should get the staff in order before going after any trades.

Lonestar
01-24-2009, 08:25 PM
I doubt it's the Chiefs they just dumped their HC. I think they should get the staff in order before going after any trades.

a good GM can make those decisions but I do agree it is more likely OAK..

Foochacho
01-24-2009, 08:26 PM
They can but most will wait for the coaches input.

TXBRONC
01-24-2009, 09:52 PM
No, but thats a good point.

i was going by the raiders always are eating up other peoples lineman on OL and DL- they have 2 broncos players on their oline- cornell green and someone else. and on dl they took warren from us and signed kwame harris???

or someone like that.

And their lines ol and DL still suck. The cheifs have been pretty good about drafting solid guys-the faid- not so much

thats why i thought raiders.

Cooper Carlisle is the name you're looking for.

TheDave
01-25-2009, 12:34 AM
This has travishamockery written all over it...

ApaOps5
01-25-2009, 12:36 AM
This has travishamockery written all over it...

I know its awesome to watch! Whomever at the Mane is pulling this off its glorious. They have done a damn fine job.

WARHORSE
01-25-2009, 03:21 AM
Wow. A fifth for Robertson...........you'd think we would jump on that since we didnt give up a pick for him and we're switchin to the 3=4.


A division rival no less.


We just have all the Broncos moves and plans at our silly little fingertips these days.

My my my.................did you guys know I drink with Bowlen?

broncosinindy
01-25-2009, 04:19 AM
Blue. it is well known that D Robertson is on his way OUT. He does not like nor play the 3-4 well enough to stick. Not to mention the sacks full of money that would be awaiting him at dove valley if he is still here in march. Denver would be very stupid to not pull of that trade immediatly

Ray Finkle
01-25-2009, 08:00 AM
I call complete BS on this. Spags was never, never a candidate after the first interview. speaking with someone I have a high deal of respect for, the choices where Frazier, Morris, and McD. Bowlen wanted a defensive HC and was talked into how McD would be good for Cutler....

Spags was never considered after his interview.

lex
01-25-2009, 08:58 AM
Blue. it is well known that D Robertson is on his way OUT. He does not like nor play the 3-4 well enough to stick. Not to mention the sacks full of money that would be awaiting him at dove valley if he is still here in march. Denver would be very stupid to not pull of that trade immediatly

If we trade him would that trigger a need to still pay him a boatload of money? Otherwise, why would anyone trade for him?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-25-2009, 09:05 AM
anyone know when Travishamockery officially started? I'd like to cross reference it w/ Run's first post hre.

broncosinindy
01-25-2009, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by broncosinindy
Blue. it is well known that D Robertson is on his way OUT. He does not like nor play the 3-4 well enough to stick. Not to mention the sacks full of money that would be awaiting him at dove valley if he is still here in march. Denver would be very stupid to not pull of that trade immediatly


If we trade him would that trigger a need to still pay him a boatload of money? Otherwise, why would anyone trade for him?

Next time ill try to bold stuff to highlight the importance.

lex
01-25-2009, 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by broncosinindy
Blue. it is well known that D Robertson is on his way OUT. He does not like nor play the 3-4 well enough to stick. Not to mention the sacks full of money that would be awaiting him at dove valley if he is still here in march. Denver would be very stupid to not pull of that trade immediatly



Next time ill try to bold stuff to highlight the importance.

No, I got all that but you also said they should trade him immediately. I dont know if Denver would have to pick up an option in order to do that...or renegotiate. I agree if its as simple as dumping the contract on someone else when they would be cutting him anyway, but thats what Im not sure of. Im wondering about the salary cap permutations and such.

cmhargrove
01-25-2009, 10:06 AM
OK, i'm in. Here are three more LB names that interest me.

If Nolan wants guys that fit requirements, and might be players, here are three LB's I think could be real values in the draft (depending on where they are picked).

Darry Beckwith (LSU)
Marcus Freeman (Ohio State)
Scott McKillop (Pitt)

Any word on these guys?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-25-2009, 10:35 AM
Scott McKillop =J Leman

I like Freeman, but not as a 3-4 OLB.

Beckwith to me is, eh.

Superchop 7
01-25-2009, 10:53 AM
minimum size requirements ?

No wonder Nolans defenses have gotten worse.

Bigger isn't always better.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-25-2009, 12:31 PM
or the dude is full of shit...

fcspikeit
01-25-2009, 02:15 PM
I happen to be an aquaintance of Pat Bowlens. You all know that I live in Hawaii, but what you dont know is that every once in a while I get to kick it with Bowlen at the Moose Lodge here right next to Kapiolani beach park. Bowlen comes here very often, and very simply to surf and take in the sun. Thats why hes always so tan, and in fact, not fiction he just left here yesterday though I didnt see him. Sometimes he comes for a week at a time, and all he does is surf. When hes not surfing, hes out on the lanai sipping drinks in board shorts with his hairy self in the sun or under a sun shade and the only reason you could know that hes not just one of the other old surf junkies down the beach is because of the way hes treated by the staff here. Im serious, he can do this for an entire week. He absolutely LOVES to long board in Waikiki. (Thats where the Moose Lodge and Kapiolani park are)

Also, both Elway and Shanahan have both been on this very lanai WITH Bowlen..........just not when Ive been here with him.


I first met Bowlen cause a friend of mine from church waited tables here, and we both happened to be there on the same day cause another couple of friends of ours from church, both the groom and the bride, had gotten married, and they staged their reception here at the Moose Lodge.

Yes, Pat Bowlen......and a handful of the older NFL owners...........is a Shriner.

That, is how I came to be a more than one time aquaintance.

My friend that works at the Lodge is named Randy, and he is a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. You old time Freaks will probably remember me talkin about him a few times at BroncosFreaks. Anyways, during the wedding reception of our friends, Randy, who at the time had been telling me Pat Bowlen frequented the Lodge, came big eyed up to me during the reception and told me Bowlen was on the lanai.

I felt for sure he was givin me the gas cause we are huge rivals in all things football. We are VERY competitive. We were actually at the last Philly/Denver football game at Invesco a couple years ago when the Broncos went on to the AFC Championship game. I won a huge bet with him on that game.
Anyways, I thought he was trying to make a fool out of me cause Im such a Broncos nut. But I didnt care, Id rather be made a fool than miss a chance on him being truthful about it and me not getting to meet Bowlen. Randy had waited on Bowlen before and had even told him that his best friend was a huge Broncos for over 30 years. Bowlen told him to introduce us if I were ever around, and Im pretty sure he was just being nice of course.

Though Randy was not working that day of the reception, he had walked out on the lanai and saw Pat. He went to say hello and said he understood if he wanted his privacy, but that I, the 30 year Bronco fan, was there at the wedding reception, and if he would mind if he brought me there to say hello. He said he didnt mind at all.

When I first met Bowlen, he was half lying in the lounge chair with only board shorts on, mid way through the lanai with a Mai Tai on his stomach. That, is why I drink Mai Tais today. Not cause I necessarily love them. The sun was just setting and he had been enjoying it. His eyes were puffy with redness and his hair was out of whack. He looked liked he had gotten out of the water, and found his place in the chair, ordered his first drink.

Here are the exact words of our first exchange, of which I will never forget:

Randy: "Mr Bowlen, Id like you to meet my friend Dale, he is a huge Broncos fan"

Bowlen: " Hey Dale. Nice to met ya." (his EXACT words....MET ya...not MEET ya)
He didnt get up, but he extended his hand, which I shook, and it was wet from his drink.

Me: "Man, I dont know what to say. Nice to meet YOU."

Bowlen:"Have a set."

He wasnt asking. I sat down, and he raised his hand for a sec, then dropped it. Then he turned his head to the left away from me, and by the time his head was done turning, a waiter was standing there.

Bowlen: "Can you please get my friends here some drinks?"
He looked at me, "What would you like?"

Me: "Im sorry, I dont really drink all that much"

Actually, being at the reception, I was NOT going to drink and go back into the reception and face my wife. Its not that I wont have a drink, its just that my wife would not take kindly to drinking on our friends wedding day.

Bowlen: "Sure you do. You drink Mai Tais.......Two Mai Tais."

Waiter: "Right away Mr. Bowlen."

He nodded his head. "Right away." he said softly. Yes, he was buzzing.

Me: "So how is it you come here to the Moose Lodge Mr. Bowlen?"

Bowlen: "Im a Shriner. You know what a Shriner is?"

Me: "Yes sir. My grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason."

At this, he lit up, and this is the reason I am still an aquaintance to this day.

Bowlen: "Really? Im a 33rd. What was your grandfathers name?"

I told him my grandfathers name. (which I will not put here)

Bowlen: "Really?? I know (my grandfathers name). He was in Minneapolis, right?"

Me: "Yes sir."

I'll keep the rest of the dialogue to myself. But in essence, Bowlen knew my grandfather through the work of the Ben Ali Shriners......the Childrens Hospitals, of which he is a member.

BTW. 33rd degree Masons simply do not exist. Very rare to achieve this honor in the Masonic society of brothers, which is the oldest known in the world. Actually, it is not an honor you can 'achieve'. It is simply given. The only other one that I personally know of was Gerald Ford, president of the United States.

Bowlen has great respect for the Shriners Masons and the work they do. He knew and respected my grandfather who had a lifetime of work with the Shriners. They have shared dinners together. And that is the tie that allows me to sit with him at the Moose lodge in Hawaii and share drinks whenever I see him here.

We rarely talk football. We talk surf, life, and problems to solve in society.

This, is not a story.

Good job, that was believable... You had motivation to write all this up to prove it could be done. Are you willing to keep coming back, adding new info each time? My guess is that it would grow boring after a while... Also, you didn't predict anything that would happen... If you had said Bowlen had talked with you about football, then you could claim to have inside info on the team... If you later planed on using your connection to Bowlen as a means to support your claim of inside info, you would be unable to do so because you already stated you two hadn't talked about that. So it is a bit harder to pull of then some people think.

Anyways, it was a good write up and worth the time it took to read :salute:

My guess is that it took a lot longer for you to write then it did for anyone to read.. So in the end, who would be losing out the most? :coffee: (That was my main point all along ;))

Lonestar
01-25-2009, 04:26 PM
No, I got all that but you also said they should trade him immediately. I dont know if Denver would have to pick up an option in order to do that...or renegotiate. I agree if its as simple as dumping the contract on someone else when they would be cutting him anyway, but thats what Im not sure of. Im wondering about the salary cap permutations and such.

we get stuck with the signing bonus and it would accelerate to this year.. but any roster bonus or salary goes to the new team.. Frankly NO one is dumb enough for this to happen..

Well except mikey.. or was it TED

Superchop 7
01-26-2009, 12:37 PM
If you are referring to Robertson, one of the "nice" things about him from Bowlens perspective was the cap number.

He saves money, real actual money. It's a cut he has to make.

We spend our cap, but in real dollars we are middle of the pack in actual payroll.

Smoke and mirrors......but it plays well in the public eye.

56crash
01-27-2009, 01:00 AM
This guy has won the game with all the takes he got from you guy wow is all I got to say...

fcspikeit
01-27-2009, 01:32 AM
This guy has won the game with all the takes he got from you guy wow is all I got to say...

If it was all just a game he did a good job... So beings everyone didn't just tell him to **** off we got duped? :laugh: Give me a brake..

SmilinAssasSin27
01-27-2009, 10:16 PM
BUMP for Mizzou...Page 4 buddy!!!

SmilinAssasSin27
05-07-2009, 05:39 PM
This Broncos scout expressed concern that Moore could be off the board as high as #6 to CIN. Again, he had him graded as a top 10 pick. (Had received a 9.1 out of 10 on his score sheet - over 2 years of games.) A 9.0 or better is considered a top 10 pick in the Broncos grading system.
FYI, they had Maualuga as an 8.7i, as they have not had the opportunity to see him in space because of the USC scheme. I=incomplete
Cushing is rated a 9.2, but there are steroid concerns with him that date back to his time at Bergen Catholic HS. Not sure if you're aware, but as a HS Junior Cushing was 230 lbs. and ran a 4.5 40. And a NJ HS weight-room legend. The concerns are 2-fold: Does he get busted (and suspended) down the road? Does he go off the juice and lose effectiveness? Is he going to get caught?
I was unable to get their grade on S Bruton, but most scouts feel he is a 2nd round pick. He is expected to test extremely well at the Combine.

ummmm....

SmilinAssasSin27
05-07-2009, 05:42 PM
There were ? about Brace's ability to take on double teams because he played next to Raji. Brace has answered the questions (and then some) at the SB. Raji is a phenomenal talent (he is #1 overall player on DEN's board, which is fluid) and Brace has moved up with a great showing. He isn't an athlete, he's just a flat-out mauler. Big, tough and unforgiving. Never does anything but bullrush and trying to "rock" the C back into the QB - in other words, a classic 3-4 NT.

You can see from his time working against top-notch C's at the SB that he will require a double team on almost every play, whether it's a run or pass. It is awesome watching him overwhelm Max Unger and Alex Mack. You can't afford to let him knock your C into your QBs lap on every play.

we passed on Brace, right?

SmilinAssasSin27
05-07-2009, 05:43 PM
The Giants are a family atmosphere moreso than any team in the NFL and would truly like to work with Plaxico to fix his problems and resume his NFL career.
However, it's largely out of their hands - if he goes to jail, TC is not going to wait for him to fill the SE position.
Plax has a big court date 3/29/09 and the Giants are urging him not to postpone it if he has any desire to remain in NY.

In fact, the Giants are currently in talks with CLE about a trade for Braylon Edwards, should Plax be unavailable.

DEN has been approached about a trade for Jarvis Moss, but only a 5th round pick was offered. This was during the season. No other trade talks I'm aware of...

Moss...the same guy we couldn't give away for a 7th?

honz
05-07-2009, 05:51 PM
Fail?

Dortoh
05-07-2009, 05:52 PM
Oh my

dogfish
05-07-2009, 05:56 PM
wow. . . . you really showed him, smiley!



:laugh:

underrated29
05-08-2009, 10:43 AM
i thought the moss for a 7th. was a joke...

It was for real? we tried to ditch him for a 7th?