Article on reasons broncos are winning

[catfish]

from itsalloverfatman.com, they usually give a pretty fair analysis

warning: author takes an unpopular stance on Elways comment, please do not be offended

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-why-are-the-broncos-winning

[Dreadnought]

Excellent, well thought out piece. FTA


Doug made a comment in CTF the other day that if this team had a league-average QB, it would be a serious contender, and he went on to say that they had that in Kyle Orton. I’ve been thinking about that for two days, and I have to disagree on several levels. Since this represents an opposition viewpoint that I think Doug shares with some others, I’m going to take a couple minutes and explain why I disagree.

First of all, Orton isn’t close to league-average. He’s a guy who can make some throws in perfect conditions, and who can’t when the slightest little thing is off. He also consistently fails in key moments, and then acts like it ain’t no thing. Any team that wants to start that guy at QB can have a blast.

Secondly, you can’t lift and shift Tebow out and drop Player X in, and expect that the other 10 guys on offense will show the same results that they’re showing now. Football is an interdependent system, and one variable plays a huge part in other variables.

There is a ton of non-Tebow related talk about what we are doing right and what we could improve upon. Its worth the time

[Northman]

First of all, Orton isn’t close to league-average. He’s a guy who can make some throws in perfect conditions, and who can’t when the slightest little thing is off. He also consistently fails in key moments, and then acts like it ain’t no thing.

Ive been saying this for the last 3 years.

[Thnikkaman]

Such a good article. And I love the statistical analysis.

[nevcraw]

Ive been saying this for the last 3 years.

You and me both brother!

[LTC Pain]

Good stuff. Go Broncos!

[Northman]

Such a good article. And I love the statistical analysis.

Most of it was great, however the part about Elway were again ignorant and naive on his part but everything else was well thought out.

[catfish]

Most of it was great, however the part about Elway were again ignorant and naive on his part but everything else was well thought out.

I gave fair warning, don't want this to devolve into another Elway mistake yes/no thread

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Ive been saying this for the last 3 years.

You and me both, brother! Amen! :beer:

[rcsodak]

Funny how people that actually know something about the NFL, versus fans,ACQB's,bloggers, say just the opposite about Orton.

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[Canmore]

I thought it to be a excellent and fair article. The Broncos are hard to defend with Tebow at quarterback. I certainly wouldn't want to be the defensive coordinator of one of Denver's opponents. :defense:

[Shazam!]

Great read.

I love it when the team wins. I seem to have forgotten about it.

I dont think they've had this kind of publicity since 97-98.

[wayninja]

I wouldn't say that he takes an unpopular stance on Elway, it just seems to me that he wants Elway to rush to a judgement sooner than he is ready to. It's obvious Elway is warming up to Tebow, there's really no reason for anyone to force it. Just because he isn't saying it now, don't let that fool you into thinking that he isn't coming around.

Beyond that, really good article. I really agree on the advice for Timmy, Slant and curls along with the run game could really chew defenses up.

[Northman]

I wouldn't say that he takes an unpopular stance on Elway, it just seems to me that he wants Elway to rush to a judgement sooner than he is ready to. It's obvious Elway is warming up to Tebow, there's really no reason for anyone to force it. Just because he isn't saying it now, don't let that fool you into thinking that he isn't coming around.



Unfortuantely, none of what you say or he says is remotely true. Elway has been behind Tebow, but has pointed out he needs some work which is also 100% true.


Did you happen to notice John Elway’s reaction to being called out for his outward lukewarmness toward Tebow? I think that it’s really affected him, and he got more than a little butt-hurt about it, and that his behavior has changed as a result of it. Never saw John change his stance at all after being attacked.


This tells me that Elway isn't going to be able to end the Tebow era if he continues to win this season.When has Elway said he was going to end Tebow's era at QB? Can someone or even the dolt that wrote this show me a link to where Elway claims this?



It gets worse when you go against the players, who are also enjoying winning and can’t help but notice that Tebow has led game-winning drives in three of the five wins.

Again, when has Elway gone against the players? Im baffled by his ignorance in this circumstance.


How happy was he when Dan Reeves drafted Tommy Maddox in 1992?He wasnt pleased but then again Elway had already accomplished a lot more by the time that incident came about. Again, stupid comparison.

[BroncoJoe]

Funny how people that actually know something about the NFL, versus fans,ACQB's,bloggers, say just the opposite about Orton.

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I agree! Won loss record be damned!

:elefant:

[TXBRONC]

Most of it was great, however the part about Elway were again ignorant and naive on his part but everything else was well thought out.

Agreed very ignorant and naive.

[jhildebrand]

I didn't take any issue with the Elway talk. I get it. I am not sure it is all completely on target or understood Elway's actions and motivations but I didn't find it to be so appalling that it detracted from the article.

I did like the Brandon Weeden comment a lot. :D That kid will be there. I have been talking about him all season. I would have Luck, then Landry, the Weeden. I think Weeden can come in and perform much like Dalton has in Cinci.

[wayninja]

Unfortuantely, none of what you say or he says is remotely true. Elway has been behind Tebow, but has pointed out he needs some work which is also 100% true.

Did you mean to respond to me, because what you are saying doesn't appear to have anything to do with what I said.

I never disputed that Elway has been behind Tebow nor did I say anything about Elway thinking Tebow needs work...

:confused:

[Northman]

Did you mean to respond to me, because what you are saying doesn't appear to have anything to do with what I said.

I never disputed that Elway has been behind Tebow nor did I say anything about Elway thinking Tebow needs work...

:confused:


You said that Elway was warming up to Tebow but the reality is Elway has always been behind Tebow, he's stated it multiple times. But just because the guy says that the kid needs work doesnt mean he was never behind him, Elway's job is to make sure that the right man is for the job at the QB position. Maybe you didnt mean to come off that way but thats how i read your post so if that wasnt your intent i apologize. But the guy in the article pretty much eluded too the same thing you stated which is false.

[horsepig]

Funny how people that actually know something about the NFL, versus fans,ACQB's,bloggers, say just the opposite about Orton.

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That would be guys like Hodge, Carter,Cowherd, etc...

TT is 5-1.

Orton is a dipshit QB, as attested to by 31 NFL personell guys who failed to trade anything, even a stale hotdog for him.

[horsepig]

Unfortuantely, none of what you say or he says is remotely true. Elway has been behind Tebow, but has pointed out he needs some work which is also 100% true.

Never saw John change his stance at all after being attacked.

When has Elway said he was going to end Tebow's era at QB? Can someone or even the dolt that wrote this show me a link to where Elway claims this?


Again, when has Elway gone against the players? Im baffled by his ignorance in this circumstance.

He wasnt pleased but then again Elway had already accomplished a lot more by the time that incident came about. Again, stupid comparison.

I agree with you a lot, but this guy makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Elway & Foxy have dug themselves a hole here. The public (me too) loves TT at QB. The results are hard to argue, unless you would like to say that TT's 25% dropped pass rate is a fallacy.

The MSM are crediting Denver's resurgence to the defense, that is also true.

However, the defense's emergence coincides with TT running the team. I do not really believe in coincidences, so there you go. DJ has finally started playing like he might actually give a shit, and so on with the defense.

If EFX can draft a guy like Wheedon, and then start him next year, the fans will revolt, and rightfully so. TT defenitely needs time to develop, he is undoubtably throwinf low and away to prevent turnovers. Is that bad? I don't think so, Reeves made Elway do the same thing in the early years and it worked.

If TT gets us to the playoffs, his legions will make it very, very difficult for EFX to supplant him as the starting QB. I'm not saying they might not do that, I'm saying it will be really unpopular.

[Northman]

I agree with you a lot, but this guy makes a hell of a lot of sense.

With most of his article yes. On the stuff about Elway no.


Elway & Foxy have dug themselves a hole here.Again, what hole? Elway and Fox have only said the same things that were argued when Tebow came into the league to begin with. He is a project and needs to work on his passing. Nothing is out of the ordinary there and they have stated they are willing too work with him.


The public (me too) loves TT at QB. The results are hard to argue, unless you would like to say that TT's 25% dropped pass rate is a fallacy.The wins are hard to argue, the leadership is hard to argue. But not the surrounding reasons why we are winning. Its not just Tebow, theres a lot of other things that are going into these wins besides Tim's late game heroics. Just like you cant pin a total loss on the QB you can pin a total win on them either. It doesnt work that way.


However, the defense's emergence coincides with TT running the team. I do not really believe in coincidences, so there you go.Actually, the defense has pretty much been there. The only difference is we are now taking care of the ball. The one game where we didnt (the Lions) we got our asses kicked. But outside of that Tim has been under a controlled scheme to limit any mistakes and thus takes the pressure off the defense. And with McGahee running well it also helps.


If EFX can draft a guy like Wheedon, and then start him next year, the fans will revolt, and rightfully so.Do you have a link where they said they plan to bench him? I would love to read it. I think a lot of you guys are trying to assume stuff that isnt there. I have no doubt Denver drafts a QB, but its not necessarily to replace Tim, only to have depth and IN CASE Tebow doesnt improve. Elway was brought in to make the team better, he would be an complete idiot not too take advantage of a QB deep draft next year. And depending on Tim's progress will most likely depend on when or where Denver drafts a QB.


TT defenitely needs time to develop, he is undoubtably throwing low and away to prevent turnovers. Is that bad? I don't think so, Reeves made Elway do the same thing in the early years and it worked.Its not bad, but thats only a handful of plays. Lets not mistake throwing ten feet above your tight end or overthrowing a RB on a screen pass as throwing the ball away. Again, you need to keep everything in perspective. Some things Tebow is doing better and improving on but not every missed completion is a intentional throwaway.


If TT gets us to the playoffs, his legions will make it very, very difficult for EFX to supplant him as the starting QB. I'm not saying they might not do that, I'm saying it will be really unpopular.I have yet to see where they plan on surplanting him. I really dont think Elway or Fox are that dumb to say that if Tebow leads the Broncos to the playoffs that they will bench him in 2012. Im just amazed that people actually believe they would do that. But, baby steps first. Denver needs to worry about the Vikings before they worry about the playoffs. Still some tough games coming up so lets not crown Tebow a hall of famer just yet.

[catfish]

It really wasn't my intention to re-start the Elway conversation, there are lots of other points in the article I hoped people would focus on

[BroncoNut]

Most of it was great, however the part about Elway were again ignorant and naive on his part but everything else was well thought out.

naiive

[wayninja]

You said that Elway was warming up to Tebow but the reality is Elway has always been behind Tebow, he's stated it multiple times. But just because the guy says that the kid needs work doesnt mean he was never behind him, Elway's job is to make sure that the right man is for the job at the QB position. Maybe you didnt mean to come off that way but thats how i read your post so if that wasnt your intent i apologize. But the guy in the article pretty much eluded too the same thing you stated which is false.

Ah, I think I may see the confusion. I didn't mean to imply that Elway was ever against or 'not behind' Tebow. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say; Elway is warming up to the idea of Tebow starting in 2012. The author seems to want him to rush to that judgment, which is what I was talking about.