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Mile High Magic
11-26-2011, 03:52 PM
I've got a couple question for the savvy readers out there:

1) Why do we struggle so much, year after year, against the screen?

I just watched the Jet tape and noticed that they hit us multiple times and they are not considered to be a good screen offense. Defensively, our biggest strength is our pass rush but I fear it could be countered with more screens. As you all know, Rivers and the Bolts are one of the better screen teams and have gashed us for big plays in the past with it. Is this more of a personnel problem or schematic?

2) On the other side of the ball, why have we given up on the screen?

In Timmy's early starts it seemed like we had an awful lot of success with the screen but it has all but disappeared lately. Is it because there are too many defenders in the box? Is it because of the spy? Are opposing defenses game planning specifically against the screen?

Agent of Orange
11-26-2011, 04:01 PM
Let me know if Im wrong but several of those screens in the Jets game came on obvious passing downs (i.e. when they knew Miller would be coming)?

I've mentioned this too. I think that teams really fear our pass rush and know it's not as simple as keeping in an extra blocker (since we also have Doom). So, this is the best teams can do to counter the screen and I think you'll see teams call this with greater frequency in scenarios where they feel more assured that Miller will be rushing. And you're right to raise this concern against San Diego.

I've also wondered about why we don't throw more screens. It could be because so many guys are in the box but then certain screens are also predicated on misdirection.

silkamilkamonico
11-26-2011, 06:41 PM
Tebow cannot throw the screen, and I am not kidding. He's a decent passer when he's on the move, but he has terrible accuracy in dropbacks, whether it's 1 step, 3 steps, or 5 steps.

DenBronx
11-26-2011, 06:44 PM
Tebow cannot throw the screen, and I am not kidding. He's a decent passer when he's on the move, but he has terrible accuracy in dropbacks, whether it's 1 step, 3 steps, or 5 steps.

Tebow couldnt hit the side of a barn if he tried.....but he sure could run through it.

DenBronx
11-26-2011, 06:50 PM
Jake Plummer said in his interview a few days ago that his best seasons in Denver was when Gary Kubiak was the OC/Play caller and they used Plummers strengths to his advantage like bootlegs and stuff. His last year they strayed away from alot of that and tried to do too many drop back passes and that's why he struggled his last year which caused him to eventually get benched for Cutler.

He pointed out that Fox is using TT to his advantage and isnt trying to make him a drop back passer, at least for right now. That doesnt mean never try it, it just means use what your best at and then make the defenses pay when their caught off guard.

SM19
11-26-2011, 06:56 PM
Defenses are keeping players at home on the edges to try to prevent Tebow from running. That has the added effect of being a good way to defend screen passes.

catfish
11-26-2011, 07:27 PM
Tebow cannot throw the screen, and I am not kidding. He's a decent passer when he's on the move, but he has terrible accuracy in dropbacks, whether it's 1 step, 3 steps, or 5 steps.

he is completing 71% of passes behind the line of scrimmage.. He is doing fine on the screen

silkamilkamonico
11-26-2011, 07:31 PM
he is completing 71% of passes behind the line of scrimmage.. He is doing fine on the screen

No he's not. I think that's another made up stat form the Tebow apologists. He's an ok passer when he's on the move and has ability, but when he's standing in the pocket he is terrible. The guy one bounces passes to receivers that are 10 yards away from him for crying out loud.

catfish
11-26-2011, 07:32 PM
Tebow couldnt hit the side of a barn if he tried.....but he sure could run through it.

he has pretty decent completion percentage from 0-10 yds in the air...it's once it gets over 10 yds that the completion% start to taper off....I haven't sat down to compare number of attempts at different distances as that would affect overall completion rate

DenBronx
11-26-2011, 07:39 PM
How about we simply start with ANY forward pass?

catfish
11-26-2011, 07:52 PM
No he's not. I think that's another made up stat form the Tebow apologists. He's an ok passer when he's on the move and has ability, but when he's standing in the pocket he is terrible. The guy one bounces passes to receivers that are 10 yards away from him for crying out loud.

unlike some I don't make a statement unless I have a stat to back it up.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

Dean
11-26-2011, 08:22 PM
he has pretty decent completion percentage from 0-10 yds in the air...it's once it gets over 10 yds that the completion% start to taper off....I haven't sat down to compare number of attempts at different distances as that would affect overall completion rate

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. IMO 56.8% for a pass that travels 10 yards or less is dismal. Also, the 65.8 rating indicates that it is not exemplary. It does exceeed his attempts beyond that range.

catfish
11-26-2011, 08:28 PM
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. IMO 56.8% for a pass that travels 10 yards or less is dismal. Also, the 65.8 rating indicates that it is not exemplary. It does exceeed his attempts beyond that range.

It is more or less in line with other 2nd year starters behind the line is may1-2% lower. 1-10 yds is3-4% lower i think(look up McCoy and Bradford)

catfish
11-26-2011, 08:33 PM
also note that Tebow is throwing a much higher percentage of passes over 20 yds in the air than anyone else in the league with the exception of Carson Palmer, not excusing the completion % as it is not acceptable where it is. Just trying to make sure people understand there is a huge difference between 60% in a dink and dunk offense where passing replaces the run game and a 60% accuracy in an offense where almost 33% of pass attempts are over 20 yds in the air

nevcraw
11-27-2011, 12:53 PM
No he's not. I think that's another made up stat form the Tebow apologists. He's an ok passer when he's on the move and has ability, but when he's standing in the pocket he is terrible. The guy one bounces passes to receivers that are 10 yards away from him for crying out loud.

tebow apologists??? I guess you hate wins. I feel sorry for you.

Joel
11-27-2011, 01:03 PM
I've got a couple question for the savvy readers out there:

1) Why do we struggle so much, year after year, against the screen?

I just watched the Jet tape and noticed that they hit us multiple times and they are not considered to be a good screen offense. Defensively, our biggest strength is our pass rush but I fear it could be countered with more screens. As you all know, Rivers and the Bolts are one of the better screen teams and have gashed us for big plays in the past with it. Is this more of a personnel problem or schematic?
Because throughout and after the Shanny era, Denver prioritized speed over size. Teams like that tend to have several vulnerabilities which have plagued us:

1) It is easier to outmuscle faster but smaller defenders and straight up block them.

2) It is easier for ball carriers to shed quicker but weaker tacklers.

3) Fast defences are uniquely vulnerable to over pursuit and misdirection.

The more agile but less powerful blockers screens typically employ can have more success against that kind of defence, and if they miss a tackler there's a good chance a powerful back can shrug him off and get downfield. That's assuming the whole defence didn't rocket to the QB at the snap only to find the play taking place behind them (the quick screen, after all, was invented to discourage blitzing and still retains that primary goal; big gains are just a nice bonus.)


2) On the other side of the ball, why have we given up on the screen?

In Timmy's early starts it seemed like we had an awful lot of success with the screen but it has all but disappeared lately. Is it because there are too many defenders in the box? Is it because of the spy? Are opposing defenses game planning specifically against the screen?
That more difficult question I cannot answer; there is such a thing as overrelying on the screen (it is not the only antidote to blitzing, and our offense in particular could benefit from delay draw plays (the running games answer to the play action pass) and QB draws) but it is effective against the blitz. Teams that call a lot of screens tend to get blitzed a lot less, and that opens things up for more downfield passing, which is the real point of the screen.