Our current QB's accuracy

[broncofaninfla]

My apologies for yet another TT thread but with all the talk about his accuracy I felt it deserved it's own thread.

Here's my take. TT had no issues with accuracy at Florida. It was never an issue there, the kid hit his passes on target week in and out. His running skills and the defenses focus on that opened up huge play after huge play in the passing game.

As I see it now, the kid is struggling with the speed of the game BUT most young QB's do. He does tend to over lead his WR's BUT what most are failing to mention is he isn't throwing picks and plays better when we need him to the most.

I agree with Elway in that I'm not sure if he is the answer at QB for the future BUT I give the kid a chance because the way I see it, his issues are fixable and he is a very coachable hard working young man. Once he gets used to the speed of the game I think the kid will be fine. Things will slow down, he'll gain confidence and his passing vision should get better.

I'm intersted in others opinions on his accuracy. Do you give the kid a chance?

My disclaimer: I almost hate taking about Tebow because of the assumption I am a Gator fan. I have the "fla" in my name because I am a Bronco fan who lives in florida now. I was born and raised in Denver and have been a bronco fan for over 30 years.

[MasterShake]

Its a strange question because you look back at college games (and even his starts late last year) and he seems like an average to sometimes good passer. I think right now he is putting too much thought into it, and hopefully we see some improvement starting this week against a pretty average secondary. Right now its a bad mix of inconsitent accuracy and recievers dropping the ball. Hopefully things improve soon.

[vandammage13]

I think its a combination of things...

1. TT is still adjusting to the speed of the game and complex NFL coverages. This is causing him to second guess himself and press a little bit. This can possibly improve with experience.

2. I think the reworking of his throwing motion has clearly hampered his accuracy. He probably should have just left it as it was IMO.

3. I think that the amount of running plays in between each throw is causing TT not to be able to get into a passing rythm. I have seen at the end of some games when they are forced to throw, that TT has been able to get into rythm and his accuracy improves. It's just kind of hard to establish any rythm whatsoever when you only throw the ball 3 times a quarter.

[vhatever]

Broncos should have listened to young/montana and not messed with his mechanics before they got his "happy feet" more glued into the pocket.

An interesting stat that few talk about regarding tebow and his passing stats, at least last time I looked at a comprhensive list of them, is that he throws the ball much, much farther downfield on average f than other QBs. Meaning, he generally doesn't pad his stats with little 2-3 yard dump passes like most do in the NFL. That's why tebows QB rating has actually been pretty good over his career despite having a poor completion %.

I think he also has the 2nd highest drop % this year. Receivers just not catching balls surely doesn't help your completion %.

[Cugel]

He doesn't have a great arm. He can heave it downfield, but all QBs can do that. Kyle Orton can take that 3 step wind up and heave a rainbow downfield. But, you wouldn't call him a great passer.

Tebow's been horribly inaccurate at times. He can't throw a touch pass. He can't execute timing patterns. He throws to a WR when he sees he's open. That's way too late because it allows NFL defenses to react to the ball.

That's a big reason why you haven't seen very many short to intermediate range passes from Tebow and few where he stands back in the pocket and surveys the field and makes good decisions throwing the ball and throws accurately to a spot and into a window where the WR will be 1 second later.

In short he has yet to demonstrate the kinds of throws NFL QBs take for granted. THAT's why a guy like Jerry Rice looking at this kid says his passing has been "terrible."

It's not just that his throwing motion and the ball movement has been ugly. It's way worse than that.

Can he improve? Maybe. He's getting a chance this season and there are still 6 more games to play. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[dunk7]

Well, Ken Dorsey also looked like a great college QB but Andre Johnson could make any QB look QB. Tebow had elite WR (Harvin, Caldwell, Murphy, Nelson, Cooper) and TE (Hernandez) talent so I'm sure that made things look better than they really were. Regardless, he's got another 6 games to prove he can be a competent passer. If I had to bet money on it, I would say he doesn't improve to EFX's satisfaction.

[MasterShake]

I think its a combination of things...

1. TT is still adjusting to the speed of the game and complex NFL coverages. This is causing him to second guess himself and press a little bit. This can possibly improve with experience.

2. I think the reworking of his throwing motion has clearly hampered his accuracy. He probably should have just left it as it was IMO.

3. I think that the amount of running plays in between each throw is causing TT not to be able to get into a passing rythm. I have seen at the end of some games when they are forced to throw, that TT has been able to get into rythm and his accuracy improves. It's just kind of hard to establish any rythm whatsoever when you only throw the ball 3 times a quarter.

Great point about the throwing motion. I was reading about how Philip Rivers developed his "shotput" throw because he learned by throwing full sized footballs when he was 11 and his dad was a coach and he couldn't grasp it properly. He never changed his motion as he grew, and was until this season a very accurate passer. I think rule #1 with any QB is that they should be comfortable.

[dunk7]

Broncos should have listened to young/montana and not messed with his mechanics before they got his "happy feet" more glued into the pocket.

An interesting stat that few talk about regarding tebow and his passing stats, at least last time I looked at a comprhensive list of them, is that he throws the ball much, much farther downfield on average f than other QBs. Meaning, he generally doesn't pad his stats with little 2-3 yard dump passes like most do in the NFL. That's why tebows QB rating has actually been pretty good over his career despite having a poor completion %.

I think he also has the 2nd highest drop % this year. Receivers just not catching balls surely doesn't help your completion %.

Since when does happy feet lead to better passing?!? The average distance throws doesn't say a whole lot to me because his attempts are so low. Sampling size is way too low to be significant. Let's take a look at that stat at the end of the year. As far as drop %, wounded ducks are harder to catch than tight spirals. Agree?

[Fullback32]

Well, I'd say he has a wind up that makes Byron Leftwich look like he rockets them out.

[Northman]

Here's my take. TT had no issues with accuracy at Florida. It was never anissue there, the kid hit his passes on target week in and out. His running skills and the defenses focus on that opened up huge play after huge play in the passing game.

I watched Tebow at Florida and while i agree it was his running ability that opened up a lot of passes i also agree with another poster in this thread who talks about the surrounding talent at UF. Florida gets a lot of blue chipper talent so you have to ask yourself if Tebow had played for say...Houston would he have been equally as successful? I dont know, i kind of doubt it. His rushing yds may have still been there because he is a great athlete but im not sure his passing stats would of been that decent.


As I see it now, the kid is struggling with the speed of the game BUT most young QB's do. He does tend to over lead his WR's BUT what most are failing to mention is he isn't throwing picks and plays better when we need him to the most.

Well, for myself ive mentioned the lack of turnovers and even made a thread about it not too long ago as too why we are winning ballgames. Thats one of the great things i like about Tebow is he is limiting his turnovers. As to the speed of the game im sure that plays a part as well but he seems to be calming down more in the pocket which is a good sign.


I agree with Elway in that I'm not sure if he is the answer at QB for the future BUT I give the kid a chance because the way I see it, his issues are fixable and he is a very coachable hard working young man. Once he gets used to the speed of the game I think the kid will be fine. Things will slow down, he'll gain confidence and his passing vision should get better.

I agree with this.


Do you give the kid a chance?


Well, technically he is getting one. He's 4-1 since taking over and has 6 more games this year. I do think that Elway and company want to see more improvement in his passing technique before the end of the year though. I think depending on that it will help decide where to draft another QB. If Tim plataeu's than John may consider going QB in the first round. If Tim shows improvement they may take one later in the draft. I still think Tim will be here next year but that he will definitely need to make strides regardless of who is his QB competition is going into next year. If he gets beat out by a rookie QB next year than i think we can see the writing on the wall for him.

[rationalfan]

i was a watching a british stream of the jets game and found this comment from the station's in-studio analysts very interesting: tebow's inaccurate because his arm isn't strong enough.

initially, i balked at the remark because it doesn't appear that tebow's arm is weak. at all. but the analyst followed his comment with this (i'm paraphrasing): tebow's natural strength isn't there so he has to put extra "oomph" on his passes to get them up to speed, so to speak. that's why he's inaccurate, because he's pushing the ball out harder than he had to in college.

i don't know if it's true, but it's interesting; and doesn't come off like BS.

[CrazyHorse]

He did have a lot better talent at Florida. It's much easier to complete passes when your receivers are wide open. In the NFL that type of separation just isn't there. He still needs time to adjust and I hope he does so we don't have to spend another high draft pick on a QB.

[tomjonesrocks]

I can only think of one NFL QB as inaccurate as Tebow--that would be JaMarcus Russell. In college Tebow had more time and bigger windows, simple as that I think.

In the offseason they need to bring in every passing specialist they can think of and work exclusively on accuracy. Tebow needs to stop hitting tires with sledgehammers and pulling trucks up hills and do nothing but throw every day all day for months.

Tebow probably gets all next year to prove himself at this point. The Broncos won't get a QB of any value in this upcoming draft--they've simply won too many games. I'd rather fill other holes with legitimate studs and give Tebow one more offseason to fix his Godawful accuracy.

[NightTerror218]

I want to see TT work with Tom Martinez and coaches during the off season.

I hope most people know who Tom Martinez is.

[NightTerror218]

I can only think of one NFL QB as inaccurate as Tebow--that would be JaMarcus Russell. In college Tebow had more time and bigger windows, simple as that I think.

In the offseason they need to bring in every passing specialist they can think of and work exclusively on accuracy. Tebow needs to stop hitting tires with sledgehammers and pulling trucks up hills and do nothing but throw every day all day for months.

Tebow probably gets all next year to prove himself at this point. The Broncos won't get a QB of any value in this upcoming draft--they've simply won too many games. I'd rather fill other holes with legitimate studs and give Tebow one more offseason to fix his Godawful accuracy.

Russel is a horrible comparison. He never worked on anything or tried. He got money and was happy. He never watched film, never worked out and was a lazy slob.

[Fullback32]

Russel is a horrible comparison. He never worked on anything or tried. He got money and was happy. He never watched film, never worked out and was a lazy slob.

True...true. You can't fault TT on his work ethic.

[tomjonesrocks]

Russel is a horrible comparison. He never worked on anything or tried. He got money and was happy. He never watched film, never worked out and was a lazy slob.

Am not sure how any of that is relevant to the topic. I never said Tebow wasn't willing to work.

[Superchop 7]

Urban Meyers offense does not translate quickly to the NFL.

What we have in a nutshell is Alex Smith.

With a caveat......the Broncos are doing it right.

Instead of overwhelming Tebow, they are keeping him comfortable in a system he knows and adding the Broncos playbook at a steady pace.

And yes, they are ramming down his throat the mechanics of throwing motion....with this kid you have to start from scratch.....his mechanics are God awful.

The good news is we have some time to get it done, even if they draft a QB it is prudent to let him sit the first year.

I think there will be a big progression made in the off season, I hope that Tebow goes to IMG Academy, he would come back ready to play.

[tomjonesrocks]

Broncos should have listened to young/montana and not messed with his mechanics before they got his "happy feet" more glued into the pocket.

Peyton Manning bounces (bounced?) all over the place in the pocket and yet is (was) deadly accurate.

[vhatever]

Since when does happy feet lead to better passing?!? The average distance throws doesn't say a whole lot to me because his attempts are so low. Sampling size is way too low to be significant. Let's take a look at that stat at the end of the year. As far as drop %, wounded ducks are harder to catch than tight spirals. Agree?

Uhh, where did I say "happy feet" lead to better passing? I inferred entirely the opposite. The sample size is not too low. He throws the ball a lot deeper than most, and his receivers drop the ball more often than most. The end. Don't talk about inaccuracy unless you want to consider these. We might also want to consider the broncos trading away their best receivers 2 years in a row now.
That also doesn't help your completion percent any.

[dunk7]

I want to see TT work with Tom Martinez and coaches during the off season.

I hope most people know who Tom Martinez is.

Yes, Martinez worked with Brady and Elway but he also worked with Russell (yikes!!!). Martinez is also very sick and really only works with Brady now.

[NightTerror218]

Yes, Martinez worked with Brady and Elway but he also worked with Russell (yikes!!!). Martinez is also very sick and really only works with Brady now.

I believe its cancer. But he is still working out QBs, they had a story about it last year and he was working with young QBs (college and NFL).

He i the QB whisperer and I think TT would benefit from him for 1 season.

[dunk7]

Uhh, where did I say "happy feet" lead to better passing? I inferred entirely the opposite. The sample size is not too low. He throws the ball a lot deeper than most, and his receivers drop the ball more often than most. The end. Don't talk about inaccuracy unless you want to consider these. We might also want to consider the broncos trading away their best receivers 2 years in a row now.
That also doesn't help your completion percent any.

Oh, that's right...he was 50% with Lloyd and 44.8% without. If the sample size isn't too low then let's agree that he sucks as a passer based on what he's done so far.

[vhatever]

Oh, that's right...he was 50% with Lloyd and 44.8% without. If the sample size isn't too low then let's agree that he sucks as a passer based on what he's done so far.

Nope. Cause last I checked he has a pretty good passer rating. You just want to focus on his completetion percentage (while ignoring he throws the ball a lot deeper on average than most QBs, doesn't throw garbage 2-3 yard stat pad passes, and has had a lot of dropped balls from his receivers). We could just as easily focus on TD to interception ration. I tebow has the best TD/int in the entire NFL now.

[dunk7]

Nope. Cause last I checked he has a pretty good passer rating. You just want to focus on his completetion percentage (while ignoring he throws the ball a lot deeper on average than most QBs, doesn't throw garbage 2-3 yard stat pad passes, and has had a lot of dropped balls from his receivers). We could just as easily focus on TD to interception ration. I tebow has the best TD/int in the entire NFL now.

I love arguing with you because you don't even take the time to research the point you are trying to make. Last time you checked his passer rating must have been when we was with Florida because his rating is 78.4, which ranks around 23rd in the league. So basically he's in the Kevin Kolb, Colt McCoy range. Also, to debunk your deep ball theory, his yards per attempt is 5.67 which is right at the bottom of the starting QB's...only starter below him is Blaine Gabbert. But I know, it's all his receivers fault and the coaches for sabotaging him...blah blah blah.

Realized you'd also probably argue yards per completion...well, I looked at those QB's that have a similar sampling size (Carson Palmer, Chad Henne and John Skelton) and guess what, they all have a better yards per completion as well.

[catfish]

I love arguing with you because you don't even take the time to research the point you are trying to make. Last time you checked his passer rating must have been when we was with Florida because his rating is 78.4, which ranks around 23rd in the league. So basically he's in the Kevin Kolb, Colt McCoy range. Also, to debunk your deep ball theory, his yards per attempt is 5.67 which is right at the bottom of the starting QB's...only starter below him is Blaine Gabbert. But I know, it's all his receivers fault and the coaches for sabotaging him...blah blah blah.

Realized you'd also probably argue yards per completion...well, I looked at those QB's that have a similar sampling size (Carson Palmer, Chad Henne and John Skelton) and guess what, they all have a better yards per completion as well.

as much as I hate to get involved

from what I see on nfl.com his passer rating is 81.6

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false

and per advanced stats he throws the 2nd highest % of passes over 20yds in the air

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

not coming down on either side just providing info

[Northman]

as much as I hate to get involved

from what I see on nfl.com his passer rating is 81.6

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false

and per advanced stats he throws the 2nd highest % of passes over 20yds in the air

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

not coming down on either side just providing info

Actually, the 81.6 is his QB rating. Not just a passer rating. When they changed the rating they added in the running, etc. The area of importance (when discussing passing) is the completion percentage. Tebow in 3 games last year was 50%, this year he is at 44.8%.

[catfish]

Actually, the 81.6 is his QB rating. Not just a passer rating. When they changed the rating they added in the running, etc. The area of importance (when discussing passing) is the completion percentage. Tebow in 3 games last year was 50%, this year he is at 44.8%.

I stand corrected

[catfish]

I know this isn't necessarily about accuracy, but Billicks thought are interesting...basically all this offense asks Tebow to do is not turn the ball over, if he continues to protect the ball he can have success.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82461a97/Rivers-or-Tebow

[catfish]

one more thing unrelated to accuracy per se. a lot is being made of WR "drops" I want to make sure I give them their props, conversation about drops aside they are out there busting their asses blocking when called for. I will take a WR who does the least flashy job a wr can have(blocking) over one that makes the flashy catches and doesn't do the grunt work

[Ravage!!!]

This made me laugh because I was thinking back of a comment I made when watching Tebow constantly throw the ball DEEP against KC. He was just throwing it up, and it was like "Come on guys, when I was at Florida, all my receivers could/would outjump all the defenders and MAKE that catch!!!"

Which I think is the crux of the problem. Tebow was NOT a good passer in college. When you (not me, but listening to those that do) break down the college games and watch when Tim had to make "small window" throws like you do in the NFL.... he was NOT good. Tebow had the MUCH better athletes at WR, and was throwing to a LOT of very very WIDE OPEN receivers in college. We see it alllllllll the time.

Tim's throws are just too slow, his accuracy is just off enough that he's wayyyyy off trying to fit into smaller spaces. People think its purely "decoration" when talking about Tebow's throwing motion, but its his entire mechanics in throwing the ball that will NEVER allow him to be an accurate thrower.

[vhatever]

Actually, the 81.6 is his QB rating. Not just a passer rating. When they changed the rating they added in the running, etc. The area of importance (when discussing passing) is the completion percentage. Tebow in 3 games last year was 50%, this year he is at 44.8%.



I stand corrected



Nope. You don't stand corrected. The NFL doesn't deal in ESPN's bogus "total QBR", which is what northman is invariably talking about. Anyone who confuses those two has no business discussing QB stats.

[Npba900]

My apologies for yet another TT thread but with all the talk about his accuracy I felt it deserved it's own thread.

Here's my take. TT had no issues with accuracy at Florida. It was never an issue there, the kid hit his passes on target week in and out. His running skills and the defenses focus on that opened up huge play after huge play in the passing game.

As I see it now, the kid is struggling with the speed of the game BUT most young QB's do. He does tend to over lead his WR's BUT what most are failing to mention is he isn't throwing picks and plays better when we need him to the most.

I agree with Elway in that I'm not sure if he is the answer at QB for the future BUT I give the kid a chance because the way I see it, his issues are fixable and he is a very coachable hard working young man. Once he gets used to the speed of the game I think the kid will be fine. Things will slow down, he'll gain confidence and his passing vision should get better.

I'm intersted in others opinions on his accuracy. Do you give the kid a chance?

My disclaimer: I almost hate taking about Tebow because of the assumption I am a Gator fan. I have the "fla" in my name because I am a Bronco fan who lives in florida now. I was born and raised in Denver and have been a bronco fan for over 30 years.

Its going to remain to be seen but when you talk about accuracy with Tebow the culprit here is his inflexibility in his throwing motion/mechanics, may all be due to years of heavy weight lifting!

Tebow over the last 10 years of his life has not been lifting weights like normal QB have done to play the QB position. Instead Tebow has been lifting weights like a linemen/Linebacker and actually has the build like linebacker or Tight End.

With the exception of Brady Quinn, no other QB really has the upper body build and large biceps that Tebow currently has.

Tebows heavy weight lifting may have had a negative impact on his ability to throw the ball accurately because his shoulders and lats have become muscle bound and tight/inflexible.

If you look at Brady, the Mannings, Rothlesburger, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Drew Breeze, etc., even Elway himself!, neither were so muscle bound in the upper body, biceps and shoulders to the point they were affected by inflexibillity to the degree we see with Tebow.

Here's an example, note how heavily muscled T2 is in the major areas used to throw the football....biceps and shoulders are both thickly muscled which eliminates flexibility. Tebow's build is definitely not the body build we see on today's glamour top rated QB's in the NFL today.

http://friendsoftheprogram.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/tebow1.jpg

[catfish]

Nope. You don't stand corrected. The NFL doesn't deal in ESPN's bogus "total QBR", which is what northman is invariably talking about. Anyone who confuses those two has no business discussing QB stats.

no he is talking about passer rating vs qb rating...I think he is right on this one

[catfish]

This made me laugh because I was thinking back of a comment I made when watching Tebow constantly throw the ball DEEP against KC. He was just throwing it up, and it was like "Come on guys, when I was at Florida, all my receivers could/would outjump all the defenders and MAKE that catch!!!"

Which I think is the crux of the problem. Tebow was NOT a good passer in college. When you (not me, but listening to those that do) break down the college games and watch when Tim had to make "small window" throws like you do in the NFL.... he was NOT good. Tebow had the MUCH better athletes at WR, and was throwing to a LOT of very very WIDE OPEN receivers in college. We see it alllllllll the time.

Tim's throws are just too slow, his accuracy is just off enough that he's wayyyyy off trying to fit into smaller spaces. People think its purely "decoration" when talking about Tebow's throwing motion, but its his entire mechanics in throwing the ball that will NEVER allow him to be an accurate thrower.

in 2008 he definitely had superior talent...2009 I'm not so sure he still put up good stats. He is definately is struggling in the NFL, but you can't take away from what he did in college

[vhatever]

no he is talking about passer rating vs qb rating...I think he is right on this one

The rating on the NFL site is passer rating, sometimes miss-labeled "qb rating". "He" is talking about "total QBR", a made up stat by the morons at ESPN.

[catfish]

The rating on the NFL site is passer rating, sometimes miss-labeled "qb rating". "He" is talking about "total QBR", a made up stat by the morons at ESPN.

i hate to disagree

passer rating - 78.4

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/qualified/false

total qbr -35.1

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7249842/nfl-week-11-total-qbr-season-leaders

qb rating

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false

[vhatever]

i hate to disagree

passer rating - 78.4

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/qualified/false

total qbr -35.1

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7249842/nfl-week-11-total-qbr-season-leaders

qb rating

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=false

The higher "rating" is his unupdated passer rating from BEFORE he played the jets. The lower one is the one from AFTER he played the jets.

[catfish]

The higher "rating" is his unupdated passer rating from BEFORE he played the jets. The lower one is the one from AFTER he played the jets.

ok...either way I was wrong

[Simple Jaded]

i was a watching a british stream of the jets game and found this comment from the station's in-studio analysts very interesting: tebow's inaccurate because his arm isn't strong enough.

initially, i balked at the remark because it doesn't appear that tebow's arm is weak. at all. but the analyst followed his comment with this (i'm paraphrasing): tebow's natural strength isn't there so he has to put extra "oomph" on his passes to get them up to speed, so to speak. that's why he's inaccurate, because he's pushing the ball out harder than he had to in college.

i don't know if it's true, but it's interesting; and doesn't come off like BS.

This is exactly what l think too. If you look at the 2-yard-out to Rosario in the KC game in which the ball didn't get anywhere near Rosario; they showed the replay from Tebow's left, which was directly behind the throw. Tebow over-strides, as usual, and he leans into the throw and out of balance before his arm ever comes forward just to put some zip on the throw. Rosario was 10-*******-yards from Tebow.

And what little zip he puts on the ball is often negated because there is no spiral and spin on the ball. How many throws from Tebow have come out with the tip of the ball up but stays up through the duration of the flight of the ball? I think this is because he over-strides to make up for a lack of arm strength. There is supposed to be a subtle wobble to a spiral because of the spins effect on the laces, how often do you see that in a Tebow pass?

IMO, this is why Tebow probably shouldn't change his throwing motion and why any improvement he makes in any given practice or game can be gone the next time he is faced with live bullets. His natural motion is already not duplicable and it's hard to change/sustain change in your throwing motion but even if he's successful in changing it could negate any gains in accuracy by losing rpm's.

Phil Simms makes a huge deal about Aaron Rodgers changing his motion, but that has next to nothing with Tim Tebow. Rodgers loosened his motion, he was too rigid and too mechanical; by relaxing his motion he actually improved his arm strength and by sitting for four years he actually had a chance to refine his motion w/o losing accuracy.

Tebow, on the other hand, has to shorten his motion, he's too un-mechanical, it's Charles Barkley's golf swing and Shaquille O'Neal's free throw motion. He actually stands to lose what little zip he has because his exaggerated throwing motion is where he generates what little power he has. Tebow throws like a pitcher, not a QB, that works when the only thing moving in the stadium Joe Sixpack's cholesterol level. Tebow's best chance, and some think only chance, is in a mostly empty set with easy read/wide open passing lanes and run option on every snap . So then Tebow is the catalyst to not only the passing game but also the running game, you're basically asking McCoy to coordinate chaos against every-changing defenses. The NFL is about setting up defenses to exploit matchups, not about sandlot football.

Rodgers refined his throwing motion to the point that he got better in accuracy and arm strength, and he had a hell of an arm to begin with. Tebow has a choice to make, refine his motion and lose some heat, or change nothing and continue with a motion that is not duplicable.

This is just my uninformed opinion, you're welcome to go on believing whatever it is you believe, but at least reasonable people can see that there is more than just "hate" behind other peoples opinion of Tim Tebow.

Either way, it's just not a situation that you bet the future on. Imo, it's more of a Kevin Kolb situation than a Sam Bradford sitation.......

[Simple Jaded]

Nope. Cause last I checked he has a pretty good passer rating. You just want to focus on his completetion percentage (while ignoring he throws the ball a lot deeper on average than most QBs, doesn't throw garbage 2-3 yard stat pad passes, and has had a lot of dropped balls from his receivers). We could just as easily focus on TD to interception ration. I tebow has the best TD/int in the entire NFL now.

Passer ratings? He had a 106 bull**** rating with 2-8 passing.

And don't talk about his drop percentage and TD/Int ratio in the same thread, if ever. He's had at least 4 easy Int's dropped, a Pick6 by the Fins, 2 by the Lions and one by the Chefs and had another Int bounce off of Cromartie's shins. That's 5 Int's that were dropped.

He throws more deep passes cause they're safer, he doesn't throw the 2-3 stat padders cause he's a horrible passer. He has struggles with timing, anticipation and accuracy so far. Go to a park some day and watch the kids play pickup football, all they throw is deep passes and it's not cause they think they're The Mad Bomber, it's cause they have zero training in throwing route tree. That's Tebow.

Stop with the excuses.......

[Ravage!!!]

Nope. You don't stand corrected. The NFL doesn't deal in ESPN's bogus "total QBR", which is what northman is invariably talking about. Anyone who confuses those two has no business discussing QB stats.

Anyone that actually uses ANY form of a QB rating, doesn't know anything about QB'ing. Its the DUMBEST stat in allllll of sports. Was invented and derived purely to give the common public a "number" to compare QBs. It's absurd, and the 2-8-68 yrds giving over 100 rating, proves the point.

[Ravage!!!]

The rating on the NFL site is passer rating, sometimes miss-labeled "qb rating". "He" is talking about "total QBR", a made up stat by the morons at ESPN.

They are BOTH a "made up" stat!!! :laugh: Where do you think the QB passing "rating" came from? Did you know that the "passer rating" that you want to use, uses 1972 "averages" built into the formula? 40 years out of date, and you want to use a "formula" to decide who had a good game and who's a good QB. Yeah, the guys at ESPN are "Morons." :lol:

Dumbest stat in football.

[sneakers]

I think one reason why he was more accurate in college is because there is less margin for error in the NFL. The windows are much smaller as they say. It is all about adjusting.

[vhatever]

They are BOTH a "made up" stat!!! :laugh: Where do you think the QB passing "rating" came from? Did you know that the "passer rating" that you want to use, uses 1972 "averages" built into the formula? 40 years out of date, and you want to use a "formula" to decide who had a good game and who's a good QB. Yeah, the guys at ESPN are "Morons." :lol:

Dumbest stat in football.

Since we only use it to compare other players, it doesn't matter if the averages were from 1930. The NFL made it to judge the overall effectiveness of a given QB in passing the ball, since they didn't expect the average fan to have to parse dozens of stats to determine who was or wasn't a good QB.

The guys at ESPN are morons. Anyone who has looked at some of the QBR numbers they have pulled out of their ass show that quite well.

[vhatever]

I think one reason why he was more accurate in college is because there is less margin for error in the NFL. The windows are much smaller as they say. It is all about adjusting.

So why was he more accurate last year?

[broncofaninfla]

So why was he more accurate last year?

I have to agree, he was def more accurate last year. I know he can be an accurate passer, I've seen him do it. What ever the reason is now can be fixed.

[catfish]

I have to agree, he was def more accurate last year. I know he can be an accurate passer, I've seen him do it. What ever the reason is now can be fixed.

My opinion(no facts to back it up) is that it's all mental...like when a pro golfer gets the shanks....maybe he needs a sports shrink. The problem with mental blocks is they can go away overnight or end a career