What the hell is wrong with Elway?

[Bullgator]

Listen guys, I know Elway is a HoF legend. I understand people getting pissed off when he is questioned... just as I would if he was my goat.

But lets be real, this time he ****** up but good. How in the hell can you undercut your rookie QB's confidence and flat out admit that you have no confidence in the kid IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON?

They are in the middle of a winning streak ffs. There are a million ways he could have strategically answered the question without flat out saying that Tim is not the QB of the future. And this right after you go out and scout RG3 and Landry Jones?

I dont care if he feels that Tim is not the future you don't ******* tell the world that you have no confidence in your current QB. Is he trying to sabotage Tim and the season?

What in the **** could he have gained by flat out saying "NO" to that question?

This proves to me all the conspiracy theories about Elway. I didn't believe it before but if he can say that they are no closer to a QB NOW that they are .500 then what the **** would he have done had Tim lost 3 games? Have him killed?

Its settled They put Tim out there to fail and shut the fans up and Tim gave them a big **** you and just kept on winning.

That explains all the shitty playcalling. The ONLY time Tim looked good was when he was in the 4-5 wide spread and the ONLY time they called it was when they had to... make Tim look like shit for 50 ******* minutes and then let him loose with his style to win games at the end. WHY WOULD THEY NOT PLAY 11 on 11 ALL THE DAMN TIME? Because Tim would look to damn good thats why.

All they have done is give the media fuel to rage on Tebow but yet somehow still manage to win

I think it was a dumbass move on Elway's part and a move that no savvy front office guy would have made even if he didn't believe in the kid.

I wonder how he would have felt if his front office said the same shit about him in his first 2 years when he sucked twice as bad as Tim.

Fox last week and now Elway this week. Goat or not Elway needs to **** and let the season play out and then trade Tim or cut him or whatever... saying what he said was a dick move and unprecedented in the history of the NFL.

Again this is not about whether or not Tim is worthy of being the future here in Denver, its about not being a ******* moron and selling out your YOUNG rookie qb to the media in the middle of a winning streak.

where the **** was all this when KO was losing his ass off? all we heard then was " He gives us the best chance to win..." and "Kyle is our guy" and "we have all the confidence in the world in Kyle" AND THEN THEY CUT HIM.

why not do the same for Tim? Help the kid by having his back?

Flame away, I don't blame you... This guy is your legend and I would defend him too.. but we all know it was a dumbass move.

[Ziggy]

Quality thread.

[Superchop 7]

John Elway
Tim's doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He's a winner who gets better every day.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

This is on Johns facebook page.......

Look.....I love the kid......but.....do I think he is a franchise QB? I have no clue.

Johns job is to add people to make the team better, I have no doubt he is drafting a QB fairly high in the draft.....and it is prudent to do so......that position is crucial.

I fully expect John to do it like Shanny did with Jerry Rice, just give it to him/us straight. (No more Josh McDaniels tells you one thing to your face while trying to replace you behind closed doors crap)

At the end of the day, Tebow, like any young QB, will have to prove himself.

And I hope he does.

But John has a job to do as well.

And I understand that.

[Northman]

Whats wrong with Elway? Absolutely nothing.

(Mods, please merge this rant with the other one please)

[silkamilkamonico]

Listen guys, I know Elway is a HoF legend. I understand people getting pissed off when he is questioned... just as I would if he was my goat.

But lets be real, this time he ****** up but good. How in the hell can you undercut your rookie QB's confidence and flat out admit that you have no confidence in the kid IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON?

They are in the middle of a winning streak ffs. There are a million ways he could have strategically answered the question without flat out saying that Tim is not the QB of the future. And this right after you go out and scout RG3 and Landry Jones?

I dont care if he feels that Tim is not the future you don't ******* tell the world that you have no confidence in your current QB. Is he trying to sabotage Tim and the season?

What in the **** could he have gained by flat out saying "NO" to that question?

This proves to me all the conspiracy theories about Elway. I didn't believe it before but if he can say that they are no closer to a QB NOW that they are .500 then what the **** would he have done had Tim lost 3 games? Have him killed?

Its settled They put Tim out there to fail and shut the fans up and Tim gave them a big **** you and just kept on winning.

That explains all the shitty playcalling. The ONLY time Tim looked good was when he was in the 4-5 wide spread and the ONLY time they called it was when they had to... make Tim look like shit for 50 ******* minutes and then let him loose with his style to win games at the end. WHY WOULD THEY NOT PLAY 11 on 11 ALL THE DAMN TIME? Because Tim would look to damn good thats why.

All they have done is give the media fuel to rage on Tebow but yet somehow still manage to win

I think it was a dumbass move on Elway's part and a move that no savvy front office guy would have made even if he didn't believe in the kid.

I wonder how he would have felt if his front office said the same shit about him in his first 2 years when he sucked twice as bad as Tim.

Fox last week and now Elway this week. Goat or not Elway needs to **** and let the season play out and then trade Tim or cut him or whatever... saying what he said was a dick move and unprecedented in the history of the NFL.

Again this is not about whether or not Tim is worthy of being the future here in Denver, its about not being a ******* moron and selling out your YOUNG rookie qb to the media in the middle of a winning streak.

where the **** was all this when KO was losing his ass off? all we heard then was " He gives us the best chance to win..." and "Kyle is our guy" and "we have all the confidence in the world in Kyle" AND THEN THEY CUT HIM.

why not do the same for Tim? Help the kid by having his back?

Flame away, I don't blame you... This guy is your legend and I would defend him too.. but we all know it was a dumbass move.

You honestly think you can win a championship when your QB can't complete 50% of his passes, or convert 3rd downs?

[BeefStew25]

Oh my. I might call in sick tomorrow for this beaut.

BullSac, google Tommy Maddox. Elway knows the pressure. If Tebow is as badass as you state, he will handle the pressure also.

Elway's job is to research every postion. He is doing that.

(Hey did you like his pick of Von Miller?)

[Bullgator]

Quality thread.

hey man this merits some thought. You cant just sweep this shit under the rug.

You name me one other instance that a GM has gone out of his way to show no confidence in his starting QB WHILE IN MIDSEASON DURING A WINNING STREAK?

Something aint right here.. and I wish they would just trade Tim.

I dont like that he has to play for people who don't want him.

[BeefStew25]

hey man this merits some thought. You cant just sweep this shit under the rug.

You name me one other instance that a GM has gone out of his way to show no confidence in his starting QB WHILE IN MIDSEASON DURING A WINNING STREAK?

Something aint right here.. and I wish they would just trade Tim.

I dont like that he has to play for people who don't want him.

Elway doesn't want 3 for 13 on 3rd downs.

[Northman]

Oh my. I might call in sick tomorrow for this beaut.

BullSac, google Tommy Maddox. Elway knows the pressure. If Tebow is as badass as you state, he will handle the pressure also.

Elway's job is to research every postion. He is doing that.

(Hey did you like his pick of Von Miller?)



Yeeeeeep.

It seems Tebow has more backbone than some of his fans do apparently. The kid just lets the shit slide off his back. But good thing Bullgator is there to stand up for him, because we know how important that is. :lol:

[Bullgator]

You honestly think you can win a championship when your QB can't complete 50% of his passes, or convert 3rd downs?

Dood hes a ROOKIE!!! He needs time to adjust like any other rookie man!!!!!!!!!

You and the media act like hes a 7 year vet!

He is clutch and WILL get better with the % given time. Clutch wins superbowls silk..

and thats not the point... you still dont throw your starting QB to the media wolves knowing all the shit he takes already... period..

Elway is a god here and i know you guys cant say what i am but you know Im right.

[Bullgator]

John Elway
Tim's doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He's a winner who gets better every day.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

This is on Johns facebook page.......

Look.....I love the kid......but.....do I think he is a franchise QB? I have no clue.

Johns job is to add people to make the team better, I have no doubt he is drafting a QB fairly high in the draft.....and it is prudent to do so......that position is crucial.

I fully expect John to do it like Shanny did with Jerry Rice, just give it to him/us straight. (No more Josh McDaniels tells you one thing to your face while trying to replace you behind closed doors crap)

At the end of the day, Tebow, like any young QB, will have to prove himself.

And I hope he does.

But John has a job to do as well.

And I understand that.

You are right in that John needs to do his job, and if Tim cant cut the mustard fine... but you just dont throw your rookie QB under the bus... and given the medias stance on Tebow thats EXACTLY what John did.

[sneakers]

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/attachments/general-sportbikes/198751d1270584007-tall-rider-looking-first-sport-bike-not..shit.again.jpg

[BeefStew25]

Tebow being a rookie is probably one of the larger piles of shit excuses there are.

[silkamilkamonico]

Dood hes a ROOKIE!!! He needs time to adjust like any other rookie man!!!!!!!!!

You and the media act like hes a 7 year vet!

He is clutch and WILL get better with the % given time. Clutch wins superbowls silk..

and thats not the point... you still dont throw your starting QB to the media wolves knowing all the shit he takes already... period..

Elway is a god here and i know you guys cant say what i am but you know Im right.

Then if you have actually been following along, you would know Elway is doing nothing more than speaking the truth about what Tebow needs to work on.

You act as if Tim Tebow is on pace to be the greatest QB in the history of the NFL.

Please spare me the "throwing him out to the wolves" comment. Tebow's a big boy. He doesn't need to be babied. And quite frankly I think he would be embarrassed that you actually think otherwise.

[BeefStew25]

Yeeeeeep.

It seems Tebow has more backbone than some of his fans do apparently. The kid just lets the shit slide off his back. But good thing Bullgator is there to stand up for him, because we know how important that is. :lol:

I don't understand the insecurity of his fan boi's.

[Bullgator]

Oh my. I might call in sick tomorrow for this beaut.

BullSac, google Tommy Maddox. Elway knows the pressure. If Tebow is as badass as you state, he will handle the pressure also.

Elway's job is to research every postion. He is doing that.

(Hey did you like his pick of Von Miller?)

Again you miss the point... its ok to scout QBS, players... make moves and do what you think is best for your team... THATS NOT MY ISSUE

how dumb do you have to be to undercut your current starting QB while he is winning? why cant he **** and do all the things you said quetly while at least FAKING some confidence in Tim?

[Northman]

I don't understand the insecurity of his fan boi's.

Frankly, me either.

The fact that Tebow has admitted that John is right about his comments just makes me shake my head at the constant overreaction by his fanbois.

[Superchop 7]

Tebow lives for nay-sayers.....that is one kid that can handle the territory.

Not worried about his mentality.

[sneakers]

Dammit Bullgator, I thought you rose above having the status of just another Tebowfag on Broncosforums.....I am willing to overlook this one misstep.

[BroncoStud]

I don't disagree with ANYTHING Elway has said in regards to Tebow. It's on Tebow to prove his viability, not Elway. I don't know how anyone can be upset with John for being open and honest. I appreciate his stance on this subject personally.

I also appreciate the fact he fired Kyle Orton today. Good riddance to the abortion that Orton was as a Bronco.

[Northman]

Dammit Bullgator, I thought you rose above having the status of just another Tebowfag on Broncosforums.....I am willing to overlook this one misstep.

Shame on you sneaks. He duped you. :lol:

[dunk7]

hey man this merits some thought. You cant just sweep this shit under the rug.

You name me one other instance that a GM has gone out of his way to show no confidence in his starting QB WHILE IN MIDSEASON DURING A WINNING STREAK?

Something aint right here.. and I wish they would just trade Tim.

I dont like that he has to play for people who don't want him.

So I guess Bill/Chris Polian are also garbage for scouting Andrew Luck. Is it so offensive that Elway and Xanders could have also been scouting a future replacement for Champ. How dare they! Take off your Florida colored sunglasses and realize teams have to do their due diligence. Maybe wanted to see if RGIII has better potential than Tebow OR maybe they came away thinking Tebow is better.

On the other side of the coin, are you so confident that Tebow can be our future QB that we shouldn't bring in any other QB that offers any kind of competition and that we should sign him to a 10 year contract?

[Bullgator]

Tebow being a rookie is probably one of the larger piles of shit excuses there are.

what the **** are you talking about?

are you just ignoring the FACT that MOST rookie QBS are sub 50% passers their first year?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

you guys are being really thick right now... this isnt about Tim sucking... I could give a shit about that... this is about your GM torpedoing HIS PLAYER..

WHAT DID HE HAVE TO GAIN BY DOING THIS!!!!!!!!!!

[Bullgator]

So I guess Bill/Chris Polian are also garbage for scouting Andrew Luck. Is it so offensive that Elway and Xanders could have also been scouting a future replacement for Champ. How dare they! Take off your Florida colored sunglasses and realize teams have to do their due diligence. Maybe wanted to see if RGIII has better potential than Tebow OR maybe they came away thinking Tebow is better.

On the other side of the coin, are you so confident that Tebow can be our future QB that we shouldn't bring in any other QB that offers any kind of competition and that we should sign him to a 10 year contract?

DUNK READ PLEASE.

its great that they scout players.. they SHOULD what you dont do is open your fat mouth to the media about what little confidence you have in your current ROOKIE QB WHO HAPPENS TO BE WINNING.

is there no one who can read what Im saying...

AGAIN its ok that he has no confidence in Tim(personally I think you would be crazy not to) BUT YOU DONT SAY SO IN THE MEDIA. Unless you WANt to start losing so you can actually draft said players...

[dunk7]

Again you miss the point... its ok to scout QBS, players... make moves and do what you think is best for your team... THATS NOT MY ISSUE

how dumb do you have to be to undercut your current starting QB while he is winning? why cant he **** and do all the things you said quetly while at least FAKING some confidence in Tim?

I missed this post...but again Bill/Chris Polian have arguably the best QB in the league and they are talking about drafting Luclk....you need to get over the Tebow love and just worry how the team does. I think this could also be a motivating ploy...Timmy seems to strive under pressure so why not add a little more ;-)

[vhatever]

Elway doesn't want 3 for 13 on 3rd downs.

Ya, any worse and we might be the Detroit lions or SF 49ers. We might even win a superbowl someday!

We have traded away our two best receivers this and last year and suddenylt there is concern for third down conversions, with a gimpy hamstringed 30 year old back and another out for the year.

[dunk7]

DUNK READ PLEASE.

its great that they scout players.. they SHOULD what you dont do is open your fat mouth to the media about what little confidence you have in your current ROOKIE QB WHO HAPPENS TO BE WINNING.

is there no one who can read what Im saying...

AGAIN its ok that he has no confidence in Tim(personally I think you would be crazy not to) BUT YOU DONT SAY SO IN THE MEDIA. Unless you WANt to start losing so you can actually draft said players...

Where did you get out of his comments that he has no confidence?!? Show me the exact quote. If he had zero confidence, Brady Quinn would be starting (or we would have kept Orton and cut Tebow).

[sneakers]

Did Elway also not say that he was going to work with Tebow in the offseason to help him become a better QB?

That doesn't sound like something a VP of football operations would do if he was going to run the guy out of town.

[BeefStew25]

Again you miss the point... its ok to scout QBS, players... make moves and do what you think is best for your team... THATS NOT MY ISSUE

how dumb do you have to be to undercut your current starting QB while he is winning? why cant he **** and do all the things you said quetly while at least FAKING some confidence in Tim?

He just cut Orton. What else do you need?

Tebow has some serious limitations with his play. Everyone knows that. Pressure busts pipes. Let's see how Tebow handles it.

[Bullgator]

Dammit Bullgator, I thought you rose above having the status of just another Tebowfag on Broncosforums.....I am willing to overlook this one misstep.

Sneak Tebow has enough Merril hoges and trent dilfers in the world. He doesnt need his own FO and coaches scuttling him on a weekly basis.

I get it that im gonna get raped but im right about this.

They need to SUPPORT him in a time that they could actually win the west and get to the playoffs...

all Tim wants is to play well for Elway and all Elway is doing to giving the media fuel to tear him down.

W/E man I get that you guys gotta defend him... but to me this was egregious.

[sneakers]

Sneak Tebow has enough Merril hoges and trent dilfers in the world. He doesnt need his own FO and coaches scuttling him on a weekly basis.

I get it that im gonna get raped but im right about this.

They need to SUPPORT him in a time that they could actually win the west and get to the playoffs...

all Tim wants is to play well for Elway and all Elway is doing to giving the media fuel to tear him down.

W/E man I get that you guys gotta defend him... but to me this was egregious.

+1 for the use of the word Egregious.

Elway was also put under a pressure cooker when he first got to Denver too....and he came out of it stronger. I think Tim will do the same. I don't think Tebow goes around reading what people say about him. So I would not be too worried about him getting upset.

[Bullgator]

He just cut Orton. What else do you need?

Tebow has some serious limitations with his play. Everyone knows that. Pressure busts pipes. Let's see how Tebow handles it.

He cut Orton because they want to draft another QB.

Beef I have no "beef" with you guys... but no way Elway lets Tim play in denver next year... short of the superbowl TT is OUT.

Mark my words.

[Northman]

WHAT DID HE HAVE TO GAIN BY DOING THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Simple. He is pushing Tebow to work harder.

[dunk7]

Sneak Tebow has enough Merril hoges and trent dilfers in the world. He doesnt need his own FO and coaches scuttling him on a weekly basis.

I get it that im gonna get raped but im right about this.

They need to SUPPORT him in a time that they could actually win the west and get to the playoffs...

all Tim wants is to play well for Elway and all Elway is doing to giving the media fuel to tear him down.

W/E man I get that you guys gotta defend him... but to me this was egregious.

I have yet to hear a negative comment about Tebow from EFX. Do you think they walk by him in the locker room and whisper "You suck". You don't want to annoint the guy the second coming of Christ without him proving it first. You don't want him to get comfortable. I think that was part of the problem with Orton. He got it in his head that he was a top end QB (from the previous regime) and he got comfortable and soft.

[Northman]

Did Elway also not say that he was going to work with Tebow in the offseason to help him become a better QB?

That doesn't sound like something a VP of football operations would do if he was going to run the guy out of town.

Sneaks! Please stop man! Your being WAY to LOGICAL! STOP IT! We need to just concentrate on the NO part of Elway's statement because afterall, taking something out of context is a reason to overreact. :lol:

[BeefStew25]

He cut Orton because they want to draft another QB.

Beef I have no "beef" with you guys... but no way Elway lets Tim play in denver next year... short of the superbowl TT is OUT.

Mark my words.

Okay, lets dive into this a bit:

1) Keeping Orton for the rest of the season has no bearing on next years draft. Orton is a UFA after the season, so there isn't a roster issue (there wouldnt be a roster issue if he weren't an UFA).

2) Tebow has value, and will be here next year.

3) 45% completion over the long term is a tough road to hoe

4) Quit being a spaz and enjoy the run

5) Urban Meyer bolted UF and left the cupboard bare are you are bitter.

[dunk7]

He cut Orton because they want to draft another QB.

Beef I have no "beef" with you guys... but no way Elway lets Tim play in denver next year... short of the superbowl TT is OUT.

Mark my words.

I'm curious, why do you think there is no way Elway lets Tim play next year?

[Bullgator]

Simple. He is pushing Tebow to work harder.

What do they want north? Blood?

If Tim works any harder he might just spontaneously combust into virgin confedi.

In the end I think They just dont like Tims style of play. Sadly. I hope Im wrong man but I think Tim is on his way out.

[BeefStew25]

Sandy believes Tebow doesn't really think he needs to improve his passing. Based on what Tebow says in interviews, I can see that point of view.

[BeefStew25]

What do they want north? Blood?

If Tim works any harder he might just spontaneously combust into virgin confedi.

In the end I think They just dont like Tims style of play. Sadly. I hope Im wrong man but I think Tim is on his way out.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

[Northman]

What do they want north? Blood?

If Tim works any harder he might just spontaneously combust into virgin confedi.

In the end I think They just dont like Tims style of play. Sadly. I hope Im wrong man but I think Tim is on his way out.


Nah, Elway has said he has improved. You need to quit just focusing on one aspect of Elway's comments. Your smarter than that, come on. The thing about Tebow is he is going to continue to be evaluated after each and every game. Elway and Fox are going to continue to be questioned about his progress so all Elway and Fox are doing is being honest of where Tebow stands at the moment. And if Tebow agrees with what they are saying than what is your beef?

[BeefStew25]

In this thread I have to take pause before I post and remember Tebow is a member of my favorite team.

[Bullgator]

I have yet to hear a negative comment about Tebow from EFX. Do you think they walk by him in the locker room and whisper "You suck". You don't want to annoint the guy the second coming of Christ without him proving it first. You don't want him to get comfortable. I think that was part of the problem with Orton. He got it in his head that he was a top end QB (from the previous regime) and he got comfortable and soft.

I agree with you but as articulate and savvy as Elway is he could have handled that question like a pro. He could have said something like...

"The bottom line is that Tim is winning right now, and he is improving week to week... and as long as he continues to progress then Tim is our quarterback"

whats wrong with that?????? thats not putting anything in stone and is showing some confidence in his young QB.

and as for the 3rd downs... really? run on first and second and either urn on third or throw in 3rd and long? is that not a set up for failure?

[Bullgator]

I'm curious, why do you think there is no way Elway lets Tim play next year?

Because he has made up his mind that Tim is dangerous. And that what Tim brings to the table is more than just football... hes a lighting rod and he is so popular that he takes the decisions out of the coaches hands and puts it in the peoples hands.. like the "tebow! tebow!" chants.

plus he just doesn't think that Tim is going to be a pure elite passer.

I DONT think that its a matter of Elway being afraid of his legacy.

[BeefStew25]

Hey BullSac, so Tebow is a rookie?

[Ziggy]

Alright Bullgator. I'll give you props for going 3 pages in this thread without attacking another poster. Elway promised the fans more transparancy from the front office when he took over. This is transparant as it gets. If Tebow shows that he can pass out of the pocket consistently he'll be the Broncos starting QB next season. If he doesn't, he'll be competing with the rest of the QB's in camp.

By the way, since when is a 2nd year QB a rookie? Tebow came into the season with 3 starts and a training camp under his belt. Rookies like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton didn't. That's a huge advantage. If Tebow is the future, he'll show Elway that he can read a defense, hit open receivers, and pass out of the pocket consistently.

While winning is fun no matter how you do it, no one who has a decent understanding of the game really is foolish enough to think that the current offense will win long term without Tim being able to pass out of the pocket and convert 3rd downs. Elway merely stated the obvious. If you really believe in Tebow as much as you seem to, let the kid show his improvement over the next 6 games and have the chips fall where they may.

[dunk7]

In this thread I have to take pause before I post and remember Tebow is a member of my favorite team.


I agree with you but as articulate and savvy as Elway is he could have handled that question like a pro. He could have said something like...

"The bottom line is that Tim is winning right now, and he is improving week to week... and as long as he continues to progress then Tim is our quarterback"

whats wrong with that?????? thats not putting anything in stone and is showing some confidence in his young QB.

and as for the 3rd downs... really? run on first and second and either urn on third or throw in 3rd and long? is that not a set up for failure?

I don't see any difference from your quote to what Elway said, both quotes imply that as long as he improves, he will be the starter.

As far as the playcalling goes, you are claiming that he is set up to fail yet the Broncos are 4-1. Maybe Orton was set up to fail. Or do they just want his 3rd down conversion numbers to look bad? Did you ever consider the reason why we are running so much is that they don't trust his passing?!?

[Bullgator]

Nah, Elway has said he has improved. You need to quit just focusing on one aspect of Elway's comments. Your smarter than that, come on. The thing about Tebow is he is going to continue to be evaluated after each and every game. Elway and Fox are going to continue to be questioned about his progress so all Elway and Fox are doing is being honest of where Tebow stands at the moment. And if Tebow agrees with what they are saying than what is your beef?

My beef is that Im big on loyalty. And this regime seems to have very little of it for Tim..

My other beef is that with Elway and Fox ******* up and giving the media gas to throw on the fire we cant even enjoy a win!

We just upset the jets and pulled ourselves back into the hunt and no one is talking about that... instead all they are talking about is Tebow would be screwed and that Elway doesnt feel Tebow is in Denvers future.

we should be the talk of the NFL with the turn around not the laughing stock with a QB that cant even gain the confidence of his own coach and GM.

wish they would just smile on him and encourage him instead of treat him like a bottom line... I understand that he is expendable but keep that shit to yourself.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't get the problem. YOu think Elway should pat Tebow on the head and say all the thingsthe FANS want to hear, because it makes you feel warm and cozy? The problem with the Tebownites, is they comb through EVERY damn quote with a fine tooth comb, LOOKING for the tiniest of compliments......and if they don't see it, then they think EVERYONE is against the guy. I swear, I've never seen such insecurities in my life. What a bunch of babies.

Tebow is NOT a rookie. If you think he should "sit and learn".... (as was discussed so many times before)... than you can't claim he's a "rookie" when he gets on the field. Otherwise the "sit and learn" thing has absolutely NOOOO meaning. He's not a rookie, he's a terrible passer, and that's more and more evident as the season has gone on.

Elway is being honest. If we can't do better than this horrible offense, SOMETHING needs to change. If that change is from the QB down, fine. But this showing can't continue. We can't keep expecting our defense to win us games.

[JPPT1974]

John is in a tough position. As he is trying to do the job. The best way he knows how. All he wants to do is win. Like the team and organization is doing their best to. Better him than us in that position IMHO.

[BeefStew25]

BullSac, talk about our D a little bit.

[BroncoBJ]

:lol: Tebow is a 2nd year QB not a Rookie. But Elway really didn't throw him under the bus. Just sayin whats up. Still Tebow is better then the other young QB's drafted last year and this year though imo. Although the other QB's have a better throwing motion though and thats what counts :lol: :lol: Thats the dumbest shit I ever heard but it makes me laugh. Who really cares what Elway thinks though. Just be glad were finally winning games with Tebow instead of how things were before. Lets all be thankful. :elefant:

[sneakers]

My beef is that Im big on loyalty. And this regime seems to have very little of it for Tim..

My other beef is that with Elway and Fox ******* up and giving the media gas to throw on the fire we cant even enjoy a win!

We just upset the jets and pulled ourselves back into the hunt and no one is talking about that... instead all they are talking about is Tebow would be screwed and that Elway doesnt feel Tebow is in Denvers future.

we should be the talk of the NFL with the turn around not the laughing stock with a QB that cant even gain the confidence of his own coach and GM.

wish they would just smile on him and encourage him instead of treat him like a bottom line... I understand that he is expendable but keep that shit to yourself.

Loyalty in the NFL is non-existent.

[dunk7]

Alright Bullgator. I'll give you props for going 3 pages in this thread without attacking another poster. Elway promised the fans more transparancy from the front office when he took over. This is transparant as it gets. If Tebow shows that he can pass out of the pocket consistently he'll be the Broncos starting QB next season. If he doesn't, he'll be competing with the rest of the QB's in camp.

By the way, since when is a 2nd year QB a rookie? Tebow came into the season with 3 starts and a training camp under his belt. Rookies like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton didn't. That's a huge advantage. If Tebow is the future, he'll show Elway that he can read a defense, hit open receivers, and pass out of the pocket consistently.

While winning is fun no matter how you do it, no one who has a decent understanding of the game really is foolish enough to think that the current offense will win long term without Tim being able to pass out of the pocket and convert 3rd downs. Elway merely stated the obvious. If you really believe in Tebow as much as you seem to, let the kid show his improvement over the next 6 games and have the chips fall where they may.

Awesome post Ziggy...Let's revisit this argument in 6 weeks. I'm curious and excited to see how it pans out. I'm not sold on Tebow but on Thursday I lost my voice screaming after The Drive v2.0 (after wanting to hang myself watching that offence for the first 55 minutes).

[Canmore]

Alright Bullgator. I'll give you props for going 3 pages in this thread without attacking another poster. Elway promised the fans more transparancy from the front office when he took over. This is transparant as it gets. If Tebow shows that he can pass out of the pocket consistently he'll be the Broncos starting QB next season. If he doesn't, he'll be competing with the rest of the QB's in camp.

By the way, since when is a 2nd year QB a rookie? Tebow came into the season with 3 starts and a training camp under his belt. Rookies like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton didn't. That's a huge advantage. If Tebow is the future, he'll show Elway that he can read a defense, hit open receivers, and pass out of the pocket consistently.

While winning is fun no matter how you do it, no one who has a decent understanding of the game really is foolish enough to think that the current offense will win long term without Tim being able to pass out of the pocket and convert 3rd downs. Elway merely stated the obvious. If you really believe in Tebow as much as you seem to, let the kid show his improvement over the next 6 games and have the chips fall where they may.

I'm really excited about the Broncos now with Tebow but I temper my enthusiasm with common sense. If Tebow doesn't get better he is not going to remain the quarterback of the Denver Broncos. Elway didn't throw Tebow under the bus. He is winning but I don't see that continuing without better accuracy and third down conversion percentage.

[Ravage!!!]

I'm really excited about the Broncos now with Tebow but I temper my enthusiasm with common sense. If Tebow doesn't get better he is not going to remain the quarterback of the Denver Broncos. Elway didn't throw Tebow under the bus. He is winning but I don't see that continuing without better accuracy and third down conversion percentage.

Or without INTs for Touchdowns, onside kick recoveries, and forced fumbles in OT. Right now, the defense SHOULD be getting all the props from our fans because they are winning the games for us.

Somehow the fact that the defense has been playing OUTSTANDING, not allowing teams to run away with the game while our offense completely stutters to a standstill. But then, when it happened at the beginning of '09, we gave the props to McD.

[BroncoBJ]

Or without INTs for Touchdowns, onside kick recoveries, and forced fumbles in OT. Right now, the defense SHOULD be getting all the props from our fans because they are winning the games for us.

Defense = 4-0
Tebow = 0-1.

Simple as that. :salute:

[Northman]

My beef is that Im big on loyalty. And this regime seems to have very little of it for Tim..

I disagree. Both Fox and Elway say that Tim is a very hard worker, they say he seems to be improving every week. Both guys have said they really like Tim. But being loyal does not mean you just flat out blow smoke up the ass of the players on the team. If a player needs work and its something the media is following very closely than you give them an honest answer. If John came out and said "Tebow is one of the best passers ive ever seen" and Tebow continues to struggle than it just makes John look foolish.


My other beef is that with Elway and Fox ******* up and giving the media gas to throw on the fire we cant even enjoy a win!

Well, wait. the win was last thursday and the comment came out what? yesterday? I mean, ive had plenty of time to enjoy the win. How much time do you need?


We just upset the jets and pulled ourselves back into the hunt and no one is talking about that... instead all they are talking about is Tebow would be screwed and that Elway doesnt feel Tebow is in Denvers future.

Well, i dont know what shows or radio programs you are listening too but when i watch ESPN and NFL Tonight they are saying Denver is right in the thick of it. In fact, on Monday Night Football they talked about Denver knocking on the playoff door.


we should be the talk of the NFL with the turn around not the laughing stock with a QB that cant even gain the confidence of his own coach and GM.

Yea, but think about it BG. Denver is winning (which is great) but they are doing it in a unorthadox fashion. We've beaten some clubs that are actually just as bad as us to some extent outside of Detroit and NY. And we are 1-1 in those games. But if we continue to win against better competition than i expect the reports to improve and give more kudos. They may still not be believers in the system that we use but at least they cant deny that we are still winning ballgames. Basically, if we want to shut the media up we just need to keep winning. Simple as that really.


wish they would just smile on him and encourage him instead of treat him like a bottom line... I understand that he is expendable but keep that shit to yourself.

Well, we dont know what gets said to Tebow in practice or behind closed doors. For all we know John could be saying a lot of good things to Tebow and encouraging him. But i would guess he is still being quite honest about his progress as well.

[dunk7]

:lol: Tebow is a 2nd year QB not a Rookie. But Elway really didn't throw him under the bus. Just sayin whats up. Still Tebow is better then the other young QB's drafted last year and this year though imo. Although the other QB's have a better throwing motion though and thats what counts :lol: :lol: Thats the dumbest shit I ever heard but it makes me laugh. Who really cares what Elway thinks though. Just be glad were finally winning games with Tebow instead of how things were before. Lets all be thankful. :elefant:

Tebow is better than Newton and Dalton? :confused:

[Bullgator]

BullSac, talk about our D a little bit.

Couple things... Until Tim has 16 games played hes a rookie.

Second, its not tebowites searching quotes with a fine toothed comb, its the media... thats why John needs to be smarter about how to answer those kind of questions...

Our D is playing better under Tebow than KO for a few reasons...

First Tebow is not turning the ball over...

second Tebow adds to the rushing game and is eating up clock... that allows them to rest and the opposing O fewer drive attempts...

Third they know that if they keep it close then Tebow can pull it out in the end... you have heard champ and Bdawk say as much...

Also Fox and allen have done well to improve our D.... Bunkly would be the defensive MVP if not for Von Miller... Champ is champ... and we have gotten some contributions from players that we did not expect... Like DJ williams, Gooman and Vaughn...

Our D is fine.

[Ravage!!!]

Defense = 4-0
Tebow = 0-1.

Simple as that. :salute:

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the drives that Tebow has been providing at the end of the games. Its EXCITING to actually have confidence that our QB can make a last drive (although it has to be about 6 minutes to run the offense the way Tebow does, and not 2 minutes). But right now, the defense is the one keeping us in close games, allowing a last minute drive to be sufficient.

Just like McDaniels got too much credit for the "offense winning 6 games in a row" back in '09, Tebow isgetting far too much credit for our wins right now. I think our defense should be the one that is propped up on the fan's shoulders.

[Poet]

At least you've managed to bash Elway more times in what, 8 months than I have in...4 years?

Thank's for that. :salute:

[dunk7]

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the drives that Tebow has been providing at the end of the games. Its EXCITING to actually have confidence that our QB can make a last drive (although it has to be about 6 minutes to run the offense the way Tebow does, and not 2 minutes). But right now, the defense is the one keeping us in close games, allowing a last minute drive to be sufficient.

Just like McDaniels got too much credit for the "offense winning 6 games in a row" back in '09, Tebow isgetting far too much credit for our wins right now. I think our defense should be the one that is propped up on the fan's shoulders.

Best post of the night...

[vhatever]

Tebow is better than Newton and Dalton? :confused:

Way better. Dalton is playing on one of the best total apackage teams this year. Cam newton might be the most overrated rookie ever -- too bad I remember it was the same story with vince young. Anyway. Cam newton is total garbage unless steve smith had 10 yards seperation and is 40 yards down the field. Your average high school QB could make those throws. Take smith away and cam is the worst QB in the NFL currently.

[Canmore]

Or without INTs for Touchdowns, onside kick recoveries, and forced fumbles in OT. Right now, the defense SHOULD be getting all the props from our fans because they are winning the games for us.

This team seems to play harder with Tebow under center than they did for Kyle Orton. They are suppose to be professionals, but this team has stepped it up since Tebow went in in the third quarter six games ago.

The defense is playing lights out and the special teams finally look special, not special ed. For the first time since I can remember, I'm excited to see the defense on the field. The playing field looks tilted in our favor, finally.

Tebow has a long, long, long way to go and I wonder if he will ever get there but for the moment I am excited about Bronco football again. I certainly see the deficiencies in his game but the results so far speak for themselves good and bad. The team is winning. Orton is gone. Hooray!

[BroncoBJ]

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the drives that Tebow has been providing at the end of the games. Its EXCITING to actually have confidence that our QB can make a last drive (although it has to be about 6 minutes to run the offense the way Tebow does, and not 2 minutes). But right now, the defense is the one keeping us in close games, allowing a last minute drive to be sufficient.

Just like McDaniels got too much credit for the "offense winning 6 games in a row" back in '09, Tebow isgetting far too much credit for our wins right now. I think our defense should be the one that is propped up on the fan's shoulders.

Well I just think its funny that Tebow has the same team Orton had ( Minus our #1 WR) And hes 4-1 as opposed to 1-4 ... and everyone said Tebow wouldn't win any games cause our run game sucks, D sucks, line sucks, ect... Then Tebow comes in and every phase of our team has improved. We have had a pick 6, a Punt return TD, and 65 yard rush TD's. Just funny how as a team we are better now.

But yea, I agree, I love the late game winning drives that Tebow has been having but a lot of teams with a young QB, play to where the QB has a chance to win late. kinda like Ben and Brady, ect.. when they were young. Had a lot of game winning drives. But yea, I want to see Tebow have a good 1st half. Win a game 38-34 where he plays well all game and then has a game winning drive.

But at 5-5, I'll take it for now. Would love to make the playoffs since I'm starting to forget what it feels like.

[BroncoBJ]

Tebow is better than Newton and Dalton? :confused:

Time will tell. I really like Dalton and his poise. Still not too sure about cam. Hes a stat machine and throwing and passing all over the place but is careless. 4 picks :lol: If Tebow threw 2 picks in a game, everyone would talk about how bad he sucks. Cam does it, and hes still a God.

[dunk7]

Way better. Dalton is playing on one of the best total apackage teams this year. Cam newton might be the most overrated rookie ever -- too bad I remember it was the same story with vince young. Anyway. Cam newton is total garbage unless steve smith had 10 yards seperation and is 40 yards down the field. Your average high school QB could make those throws. Take smith away and cam is the worst QB in the NFL currently.

Vhatever buddy. Tim Tebow is garbage unless Eric Decker gets 20 yard separation down the middle of the field and even its about a 40% chance he'll hit him. As far as Dalton goes, I don't see a lot of difference between Denver and Cincy in terms of talent on both sides of the ball. Dalton makes some rookie mistakes (forcing ball into coverage which Tebow does not) but he is going to be a great QB. I'm not so sure on Timmay

[dunk7]

Time will tell. I really like Dalton and his poise. Still not too sure about cam. Hes a stat machine and throwing and passing all over the place but is careless. 4 picks :lol: If Tebow threw 2 picks in a game, everyone would talk about how bad he sucks. Cam does it, and hes still a God.

Fair enough...the true rookies do force the ball or make some stupid plays but I'd question the football IQ of people who think either are not better QB's than Tebow.

[Bullgator]

IDK folks... Like I said, I wish Elway was a little more PC about that Question but I guess in the long run it makes little difference.

We could (Should) go 5-1 over the last 6 games... Without Cutler the bears are not scary and of course NE will be heavy favorites but you never know. Everyone else looks very beatable. IF we run some 4-5 wide no backfield for like 4 -5 drives a game....

First and last series or each half or when they really need a core... the rest of the time the Offenseive play calling is just poop.

Maybe then they might show some love. For now I'll just grind my teeth.

[vhatever]

Vhatever buddy. Tim Tebow is garbage unless Eric Decker gets 20 yard separation down the middle of the field and even its about a 40% chance he'll hit him. As far as Dalton goes, I don't see a lot of difference between Denver and Cincy in terms of talent on both sides of the ball. Dalton makes some rookie mistakes (forcing ball into coverage which Tebow does not) but he is going to be a great QB. I'm not so sure on Timmay

Ya, decker looked pretty vital when tebow rolled up the field against one of the best defenses in the NFL like he was playing flag football with grade schoolers.

[Bullgator]

Ok guys this thread has served its purpose... provided some late night convo anyway... if youguys have nothing else to add... ill be deleting it in 5 min.

[Tned]

Tebow being a rookie is probably one of the larger piles of shit excuses there are.

Kind of like me saying I'm a 20 year old with a full head of hair....

I was once in the past, but I'm not now. Just like Tebow isn't a rookie.

On your third down conversion comment. Tebow obviously has to take some blame for that, as do some of the receivers that have dropped passes (some easy, some difficult), but blame also has to go to McCoy for putting the offense in a lot of 3rd and long, obvious passing downs due to his predictable play calling (known as run, run) on first and second downs.

[BroncoBJ]

1 thing I liked more about this last game then previous games though is that on 3rd and 5 or 6 or longer, we actually threw the ball. I was getting tired of knowing that every 3rd down play was going to be a QB Draw. Was nice that we let Tim throw finally.

[dogfish]

okay, i didn't read any of this, but bull. . .

c'mon, man!

quit being a drama queen. . .

you know von got benched earlier this year, which is worse than being questioned. . . did anybody start a bunch of threads wailing about it? did he complain about it? no. . .

does this shit bother tebow?

he's dealt with it his whole life. . .

"''ppreciate that"

he should. . . the kid apparently can't play until he's behind on the scoreboard. . . maybe elway should slap him in the face like john henderson before every game to get him going. . .

[Bullgator]

okay, i didn't read any of this, but bull. . .

c'mon, man!

quit being a drama queen. . .

you know von got benched earlier this year, which is worse than being questioned. . . did anybody start a bunch of threads wailing about it? did he complain about it? no. . .

does this shit bother tebow?

he's dealt with it his whole life. . .

"''ppreciate that"

he should. . . the kid apparently can't play until he's behind on the scoreboard. . . maybe elway should slap him in the face like john henderson before every game to get him going. . .

If you did read all my posts I think you will find I was fair...

Im just pissed that with all the shit in the media, Elway needs to add fuel to the fire... hes a GM for crying out loud, he knows exactly what hes saying.

I dont think John is jealous or defending his legacy lol... I just think he would rather have another QB even if Tebow wins because of everything else he comes with...

Thats fine to me... hes the GM and should do what he thinks is best for his franchise... BUT you dont undercut your young QBs confidence in public. You dont even do that at 2-3 much less 4-1...

I just see Elway as an obstacle right now and there are enough of those outside that building... I think I liked it better when they weren't so "transparent" ... you dont need to be "honest" you need to be savvy and IMO the best thing you can do is win now(even if you want to make a change later)... so why would you show such lack of confidence in your current winner? It wasnt a savvy answer, it was an emphatic, resounding NO!

[BeefStew25]

Ffs

[Joel]

Listen guys, I know Elway is a HoF legend. I understand people getting pissed off when he is questioned... just as I would if he was my goat.... I wish they would just trade Tim.
When I see threads like this, part of me does, too. Just 'cos Tebow's "your GOAT" doesn't justify attacking the honesty of "ours." To be clear, that is NOT an admission I was the second gunman on the Grassy Knoll. :foilhat:

and as for the 3rd downs... really? run on first and second and either urn on third or throw in 3rd and long? is that not a set up for failure?
I actually agree with this and have said as much elsewhere, but don't think it a sign anyone's trying to "sabotage" Tebow: It's a sign that speaks louder than any word comment to a reporter that the coaches and FO DON'T have confidence in Tebow as a passer. Unfortunately, it's something of a Catch 22: Until Tebow completes more passes than not the coaches won't call passes unless they MUST, but he won't get more completions until they start calling passes when the entire stadium isn't expecting them. The only solution to that problem is for Tebow to be dead on with the few passes he does attempt, even when he has nine guys blitzing him or seven guys covering his receivers. It sucks, but that's the situation for every option QB who's come out of college since 1970.

[Traveler]

Dood hes a ROOKIE!!! He needs time to adjust like any other rookie man!!!!!!!!!

Having not read all six pages, can you explain how Tim can be a rookie two years in a row?

Damn! Tim is all powerful. He can turn back time too.;)

[elwayisgod]

Why is it ok for Tebow to say he needs to get better as a passer and on 3rd downs but when Elway says it he's crucified by Tebow nation???? Its fricking crap, thats why!! Half these Tebow fans arent even Bronco fans!!!!! So **** and let Elway do his job. There were many other players being looked at besides Jones and RG III.....

[TXBRONC]

Obviously Bull you are ignorant of what Elway said in the interview. I suggest you go to http://www.denverssportsstation.com/#vmix_media_id=112541651 and listen to the freakin interview CAREFULLY. :rolleyes:

[MOtorboat]

I want to like the kid so bad! And then...

Ugh, his fans do no favors at all for him. At all.

[BeefStew25]

I want to like the kid so bad! And then...

Ugh, his fans do no favors at all for him. At all.

Yeah, Mo, separate him and his soggy crackers.

[TXBRONC]

Frankly, me either.

The fact that Tebow has admitted that John is right about his comments just makes me shake my head at the constant overreaction by his fanbois.

I figured that some of the Gator fans would get bent about Elway's comments.

[BroncoNut]

In defense of John's actions. Why build a team around Tebow, particularly at this time? that would be far more foolish imo.

[BeefStew25]

In defense of John's actions. Why build a team around Tebow, particularly at this time? that would be far more foolish imo.

Bull is going to be pissed once he meths up and logs in again.

[BroncoNut]

Bull is going to be pissed once he meths up and logs in again.

Beef, I am slow to anger. this kinda thing is just now starting to wrankle me. man, and I really love Tebow, the man and the athlete

[BeefStew25]

Beef, I am slow to anger. this kinda thing is just now starting to wrankle me. man, and I really love Tebow, the man and the athlete

Yeah, imagine how Tebow feels. All these brain dead drones roaming the earth making excuses for him.

Like, he is still a rookie.

[BroncoNut]

Yeah, imagine how Tebow feels. All these brain dead drones roaming the earth making excuses for him.

Like, he is still a rookie.

yeah, it would drive me nuts. I would have been sending hate email to BG, Jags, and the rest of the douches months ago. Probably would have been serving a permaban too. I imagine this is really testing Tebow's moxie

[FlyByU]

Elway doesn't want 3 for 13 on 3rd downs.

OK well if they don't run up the gut 10 of the 13 times they probably wouldn't be 3-13 on 3rd downs.

I Agree with Bull on a few points.

The play calling is beyond reproach right now and Denver is winning with them that is because the players will it and they win not because Fox/McCoy have a great game plan or know how to manage a game far from it IMO.

Also true no other FO would throw there starting QB to the wolves in a winning streak that was orchestrated by the QB on Offense. Not saying the D didn't have anything to do with the wins they did beyond there part in the 4 wins of the last 5 games. I am just saying the only Offensive weapon we have right now is TT. WR can't catch even when the ball is thrown to them, Willis is hurt, and Moreno is well being Moreno a wimp. I do want to give credit to a better O-line also they seem to come through when needed as well.

:beer:

Oh and I agree with Elway. TT cannot be the Franchise QB until he improves his passing game. We all know that much & it cannot be denied. TT has said being belittled gives him fuel to succeed and I think Elway is using that for him to get more motivated in the Passing department. However, the boy cannot improve in that department averaging 5 pass plays for the first 3 Qtr's no QB would.

[turftoad]

If you did read all my posts I think you will find I was fair...

Im just pissed that with all the shit in the media, Elway needs to add fuel to the fire... hes a GM for crying out loud, he knows exactly what hes saying.

I dont think John is jealous or defending his legacy lol... I just think he would rather have another QB even if Tebow wins because of everything else he comes with...

Thats fine to me... hes the GM and should do what he thinks is best for his franchise... BUT you dont undercut your young QBs confidence in public. You dont even do that at 2-3 much less 4-1...

I just see Elway as an obstacle right now and there are enough of those outside that building... I think I liked it better when they weren't so "transparent" ... you dont need to be "honest" you need to be savvy and IMO the best thing you can do is win now(even if you want to make a change later)... so why would you show such lack of confidence in your current winner? It wasnt a savvy answer, it was an emphatic, resounding NO!

Tebow is not above Elway.

Tebow is not above the Broncos.

[Bullgator]

For all the butthurt fans that have a hard time reading. And there seems to be alot of you.

for the last time, my beef is not about Tims ability to pass or lack there of.

my beef is not about Elway not believing in Tim as a franchise QB.. thats his right.

Its not about scouting other QBs.

Its about a GM not knowing when to shut the **** up and hold his cards close to his vest. Its about not selling your current QB out to a ravenous media in the midst of your most important winning streak since 2005.

Hey John he may not be your QB of the future, but he IS your current QB and you need him now. Pull your head out of your ass and support him until the wheels fall off and then cut his ass like you did Orton.

If some of you guys cant see why that's a legit beef then your just being a lemming.

I've never been critical of Elway before, and some of you excitable DB fans may not like it but hell when has that ever stopped me from voicing my opinion?

Hate all you want but my beef is legit and if you had half a brain, regardless of how you feel about your QB, you would have that beef too.

[claymore]

For all the butthurt fans that have a hard time reading. And there seems to be alot of you.

for the last time, my beef is not about Tims ability to pass or lack there of.

my beef is not about Elway not believing in Tim as a franchise QB.. thats his right.

Its not about scouting other QBs.

Its about a GM not knowing when to shut the **** up and hold his cards close to his vest. Its about not selling your current QB out to a ravenous media in the midst of your most important winning streak since 2005.

Hey John he may not be your QB of the future, but he IS your current QB and you need him now. Pull your head out of your ass and support him until the wheels fall off and then cut his ass like you did Orton.

If some of you guys cant see why that's a legit beef then your just being a lemming.

I've never been critical of Elway before, and some of you excitable DB fans may not like it but hell when has that ever stopped me from voicing my opinion?

Hate all you want but my beef is legit and if you had half a brain, regardless of how you feel about your QB, you would have that beef too.

Maybe..., Just maybee... Elway wants other teams to think he wants a QB? Might help us out come draft time... Maybee???

[BroncoNut]

For all the butthurt fans that have a hard time reading. And there seems to be alot of you.

for the last time, my beef is not about Tims ability to pass or lack there of.

my beef is not about Elway not believing in Tim as a franchise QB.. thats his right.

Its not about scouting other QBs.

Its about a GM not knowing when to shut the **** up and hold his cards close to his vest. Its about not selling your current QB out to a ravenous media in the midst of your most important winning streak since 2005.

Hey John he may not be your QB of the future, but he IS your current QB and you need him now. Pull your head out of your ass and support him until the wheels fall off and then cut his ass like you did Orton.

If some of you guys cant see why that's a legit beef then your just being a lemming.

I've never been critical of Elway before, and some of you excitable DB fans may not like it but hell when has that ever stopped me from voicing my opinion?

Hate all you want but my beef is legit and if you had half a brain, regardless of how you feel about your QB, you would have that beef too.

Bronco gator. Peeps just don't agree with your take. It doesn't mean they're particularly upset, retartded, or both. Alot are just gettting fed up with the hypercriticism of others in the organization by Tebow ******* lickers like yourself

[BeefStew25]

John, is the sky green?

John, has Tebow proven himself?

[slim]

John was noncommittal, that is all.

He also had some nice things to say about TT. I guess you glossed over those comments?

[claymore]

Good, today we have ass kicking Nut. I LOVE ass kicking Nut.

[catfish]

Kind of like me saying I'm a 20 year old with a full head of hair....

I was once in the past, but I'm not now. Just like Tebow isn't a rookie.

On your third down conversion comment. Tebow obviously has to take some blame for that, as do some of the receivers that have dropped passes (some easy, some difficult), but blame also has to go to McCoy for putting the offense in a lot of 3rd and long, obvious passing downs due to his predictable play calling (known as run, run) on first and second downs.

don't forget the RB and the O-line, run,run pass is ok if you are gettin 4 yds a carry. vs the jets it was more like 1.5 per. Tebow didn't play well but face it the whole offense got shut down

[Bullgator]

Maybe..., Just maybee... Elway wants other teams to think he wants a QB? Might help us out come draft time... Maybee???

Then he is brilliant. But its still a dangerous play to make this early before the draft. So I doubt it. But maybe.

[slim]

don't forget the RB and the O-line, run,run pass is ok if you are gettin 4 yds a carry. vs the jets it was more like 1.5 per. Tebow didn't play well but face it the whole offense got shut down

The play calling needs to improve.

Tim needs to improve.

I am perfect, so I do not need to improve.

[Bullgator]

John, is the sky green?

John, has Tebow proven himself?

He asked if they were ANY CLOSER! not that if Tebow has earned a 100 mill contract ffs.

[claymore]

Then he is brilliant. But its still a dangerous play to make this early before the draft. So I doubt it. But maybe.

Why??? Elway has Tebows ear like a MF'er. Elway can easily tell Tebow "Im not going to commit to you in public because we want player x, y and z. Know I love you, dont get your feelings hurt".

It does 2 things, help with misdirection in the draft, and builds the team. THe Team will start to have Tebows back.

Or, Elway doesnt like Tebow. :laugh:

[slim]

He asked if they were ANY CLOSER! not that if Tebow has earned a 100 mill contract ffs.

He hasn't made up his mind, BFD.

[catfish]

Why??? Elway has Tebows ear like a MF'er. Elway can easily tell Tebow "Im not going to commit to you in public because we want player x, y and z. Know I love you, dont get your feelings hurt".

It does 2 things, help with misdirection in the draft, and builds the team. THe Team will start to have Tebows back.

Or, Elway doesnt like Tebow. :laugh:

I'm actually more concerned about the media shitstorm these comments are sure to stir up. I don't think Tebow cares about the comments 1 way or the other

[Bullgator]

Bronco gator. Peeps just don't agree with your take. It doesn't mean they're particularly upset, retartded, or both. Alot are just gettting fed up with the hypercriticism of others in the organization by Tebow ******* lickers like yourself

Tebow ******* lickers, Elway ******* lickers... 6 of one, half dozen of the other... ******* are getting licked either way.

Elway is the GM now and not just some fond memory and so he is no longer untouchable from being held accountable from making bonehead moves. He MUST be held accountable regardless of his godhood.

[claymore]

I'm actually more concerned about the media shitstorm these comments are sure to stir up. I don't think Tebow cares about the comments 1 way or the other

For every media blow out over a 3 sec audio clip... There are multiple private conversations between Elway and fox to Tebow that we will probably never know.

[FlyByU]

Hey Bull I see frustration in your OP and I understand it but it might be miss directed.

We all get upset with things and need to vent and that is how I see your post no more no less.

I myself am sick of McCoy being on this team he needs to go and I wish him the same stupid play calling where ever he goes and to whoever is stupid enough to hire him. McCoy would be great HS coach that has no vision.

[MOtorboat]

don't forget the RB and the O-line, run,run pass is ok if you are gettin 4 yds a carry. vs the jets it was more like 1.5 per. Tebow didn't play well but face it the whole offense got shut down

If the team wasn't leading the league in rushing since Tebow started back in week 6, I'd have an easier time believing you.

[BroncoNut]

Tebow ******* lickers, Elway ******* lickers... 6 of one, half dozen of the other... ******* are getting licked either way.

Elway is the GM now and not just some fond memory and so he is no longer untouchable from being held accountable from making bonehead moves. He MUST be held accountable regardless of his godhood.

I don't see many of these so called Elway ******* lickers starting threads on how Elway is so justified and everyone else is so not

[FlyByU]

I don't see many of these so called Elway ******* lickers starting threads on how Elway is so justified and everyone else is so not

Maybe one should be started so we have one ;)

[catfish]

If the team wasn't leading the league in rushing since Tebow started back in week 6, I'd have an easier time believing you.

Look at the rush stats for the Jets game...that is all I was talking about. Every team is going to have a game where the offense doesn't perform up to standard. The Jets game was one of them, its not a commentary on the offense as a whole, just the Jets game as a stand alone. McGahee was playing hurt and it showed. That is all

[BroncoNut]

Maybe one should be started so we have one ;)

nah, we get her done in here Fly

[slim]

MO, where is your weekly thread?

[Bullgator]

I don't see many of these so called Elway ******* lickers starting threads on how Elway is so justified and everyone else is so not

There is no need to start a thread lol. Gather your torches and pitchforks and meet right here at this thread.

Like I said... its like your dad doing something dumb and you thinking "damn dad wtf were you thinking" but then you still have to have his back... so I dont take offense but you all know it was not what you want to see from your dad..er.. GM

[BroncoNut]

There is no need to start a thread lol. Gather your torches and pitchforks and meet right here at this thread.

Like I said... its like your dad doing something dumb and you thinking "damn dad wtf were you thinking" but then you still have to have his back... so I dont take offense but you all know it was not what you want to see from your dad..er.. GM

BG, just S T F U

[turftoad]

For all the butthurt fans that have a hard time reading. And there seems to be alot of you.

for the last time, my beef is not about Tims ability to pass or lack there of.

my beef is not about Elway not believing in Tim as a franchise QB.. thats his right.

Its not about scouting other QBs.

Its about a GM not knowing when to shut the **** up and hold his cards close to his vest. Its about not selling your current QB out to a ravenous media in the midst of your most important winning streak since 2005.

Hey John he may not be your QB of the future, but he IS your current QB and you need him now. Pull your head out of your ass and support him until the wheels fall off and then cut his ass like you did Orton.

If some of you guys cant see why that's a legit beef then your just being a lemming.

I've never been critical of Elway before, and some of you excitable DB fans may not like it but hell when has that ever stopped me from voicing my opinion?

Hate all you want but my beef is legit and if you had half a brain, regardless of how you feel about your QB, you would have that beef too.

And who's butthurt?? :confused:

[BeefStew25]

Bull, do you have mild Downs?

[BroncoNut]

And who's butthurt?? :confused:

I don't appreciate the Butturt reference to tell you the truth. There are some people on here I actully care quite a bit about that are actively gay

[turftoad]

Why??? Elway has Tebows ear like a MF'er. Elway can easily tell Tebow "Im not going to commit to you in public because we want player x, y and z. Know I love you, dont get your feelings hurt".

It does 2 things, help with misdirection in the draft, and builds the team. THe Team will start to have Tebows back.

Or, Elway doesnt like Tebow. :laugh:

TEAM? Did you say TEAM Clay? Jeez...... I thought this TEAM was only about ONE player and ONE player only. :shocked:

[turftoad]

There is no need to start a thread lol. Gather your torches and pitchforks and meet right here at this thread.

Like I said... its like your dad doing something dumb and you thinking "damn dad wtf were you thinking" but then you still have to have his back... so I dont take offense but you all know it was not what you want to see from your dad..er.. GM

Are you sure YOU are not Tims Dad?

[Bullgator]

And who's butthurt?? :confused:

the "hey Bull go **** yourself, and diaf" crowd.

and for the record I tried to delete this thread and Tned put it back up... and then I even put in a petition to have it deleted to save the drama and hate that would result from this thread... but I guess the fine mods would rather see me burned at the steak... or is it like a steak :lol:

Anyway Im just being honest... but hey the cats out of the bag... I guess I just pulled an ELWAY! ROFL

"Hey honey can you put on some different pants? those make your ass look HUGE" op, dammit just pulled an Elway.

"No Ociffer I haven't had a drink... IVE HAD ELEVEN!" Oh shit, just Elwayed the shit out of myself!

[turftoad]

the "hey Bull go **** yourself, and diaf" crowd.

and for the record I tried to delete this thread and Tned put it back up... and then I even put in a petition to have it deleted to save the drama and hate that would result from this thread... but I guess the fine mods would rather see me burned at the steak... or is it like a steak :lol:

Anyway Im just being honest... but hey the cats out of the bag... I guess I just pulled an ELWAY! ROFL

"Hey honey can you put on some different pants? those make your ass look HUGE" op, dammit just pulled an Elway.

"No Ociffer I haven't had a drink... IVE HAD ELEVEN!" Oh shit, just Elwayed the shit out of myself!

You are the only one in this thread that is butt hurt. Also, the only hate going on in here is yours for Elway. So..... you are not doing yourself any favors, this is a Broncos board, not a Tebow board.

[Bullgator]

I don't appreciate the Butturt reference to tell you the truth. There are some people on here I actully care quite a bit about that are actively gay

Your right nut... maybe we can use a more pc term like... fannyburns... ill work on it.

[catfish]

Are you sure YOU are not Tims Dad?

I really don't think it comes down to protecting/supporting Tebow. I think Elway told the truth as he, and most likely everyone else sees it. Having said that there is a reason politicians and CEO's aren't candid about subjects. They know the mainstream media will take a 5 second snippet of an otherwise positive story and make it negative to generate intesrest. Note the stories don't say Elway likes what he sees in Tebow but sees room for improvement. They all are a variaton of "ELWAY THINKS TEBOW SUCKS!!!"

while the Broncos fans understand that is not the case understand the rest of the country reads the article and thinks Tebow is in a organization that doesn't support him even though IMO that is not the case. I don't think Elway should lie, but there are ways of telling the truth that can't be dissected to create controversy.

He is learning on the job and I think in the long run will be great in the position he is in. Tebow fans need to calm down and understand Elway is a rookie at this spot and is going to make some errors it's no big deal.

[Cugel]

hey man this merits some thought. You cant just sweep this shit under the rug.

You name me one other instance that a GM has gone out of his way to show no confidence in his starting QB WHILE IN MIDSEASON DURING A WINNING STREAK?

Something aint right here.. and I wish they would just trade Tim.

I dont like that he has to play for people who don't want him.

I wish they would trade him too! Then all the Teboniacs would go off and gush about how wonderful their tin god is on some OTHER message board! :ranger:

That's what is really the most irritating, all the Tebow fans who aren't real BRONCOS fans and will follow Tebow wherever he goes because they are loyal to HIM and not to the team!

And they're ripping John Elway? The greatest sports figure in Denver history, bar none.

I suppose some people might want to stop and consider that MAYBE John Elway might have a pretty good idea what it takes to be a SB winning QB after playing in FIVE of them and winning two.
:ranger:
But if he crosses Tebow, even in the slightest way, forget it! We couch potatoes can easily see what Elway is too "jealous" to see! We KNOW Tebow is destined for greatness and if Elway can't see it, then he's clearly WRONG! :rolleyes:

[MOtorboat]

MO, where is your weekly thread?

Relax. The first one was started three days prior, the second and third were started two days prior to the game. We're still four days out.

I've got the mojo situation under control. Something gatorboi sure doesn't have...

[Bullgator]

I really don't think it comes down to protecting/supporting Tebow. I think Elway told the truth as he, and most likely everyone else sees it. Having said that there is a reason politicians and CEO's aren't candid about subjects. They know the mainstream media will take a 5 second snippet of an otherwise positive story and make it negative to generate intesrest. Note the stories don't say Elway likes what he sees in Tebow but sees room for improvement. They all are a variaton of "ELWAY THINKS TEBOW SUCKS!!!"

while the Broncos fans understand that is not the case understand the rest of the country reads the article and thinks Tebow is in a organization that doesn't support him even though IMO that is not the case. I don't think Elway should lie, but there are ways of telling the truth that can't be dissected to create controversy.

He is learning on the job and I think in the long run will be great in the position he is in. Tebow fans need to calm down and understand Elway is a rookie at this spot and is going to make some errors it's no big deal.

^^^ This.

[Bullgator]

I wish they would trade him too! Then all the Teboniacs would go off and gush about how wonderful their tin god is on some OTHER message board! :ranger:

That's what is really the most irritating, all the Tebow fans who aren't real BRONCOS fans and will follow Tebow wherever he goes because they are loyal to HIM and not to the team!

And they're ripping John Elway? The greatest sports figure in Denver history, bar none.

I suppose some people might want to stop and consider that MAYBE John Elway might have a pretty good idea what it takes to be a SB winning QB after playing in FIVE of them and winning two.
:ranger:
But if he crosses Tebow, even in the slightest way, forget it! We couch potatoes can easily see what Elway is too "jealous" to see! We KNOW Tebow is destined for greatness and if Elway can't see it, then he's clearly WRONG! :rolleyes:

you are being ignorant. read, then reply.

[slim]

Relax. The first one was started three days prior, the second and third were started two days prior to the game. We're still four days out.

I've got the mojo situation under control. Something gatorboi sure doesn't have...

OK, well there may not be a lot of people around to post in it :listen:

So I am going to need you to work overtime this week.

[Dzone]

Listening to Mike and M ike on espn. They are saying Elway was out of line and that Elway is totally dismissing all the good that Tebow has done. Elway is catching hell in the national media.

[BroncoNut]

Your right nut... maybe we can use a more pc term like... fannyburns... ill work on it.

no BG, just leave it out. Your insulting a certain group of people and using a side affect of a certain lifestyle to do so. it's inappropriate,

just kidding

[Bullgator]

no BG, just leave it out. Your insulting a certain group of people and using a side affect of a certain lifestyle to do so. it's inappropriate,

just kidding

You are right nut... anal fissures are no laughing matter.

[wayninja]

The biggest problem here is that people are interpreting what they want to hear rather than what was actually asked and answered. Bull, you seem to working under the premise that Elway said Tebow is not doing well and/or is not going to be the future QB.

He didn't say that. He was asked if he is any closer to making that determination. And he said no. There's nothing wrong with a game being a 'push' in terms of evaluating what they need to evaluate. There's still 6 more to go so just take it down a notch.

[BroncoNut]

The biggest problem here is that people are interpreting what they want to hear rather than what was actually asked and answered. Bull, you seem to working under the premise that Elway said Tebow is not doing well and/or is not going to be the future QB.

He didn't say that. He was asked if he is any closer to making that determination. And he said no. There's nothing wrong with a game being a 'push' in terms of evaluating what they need to evaluate. There's still 6 more to go so just take it down a notch.

Conslusion: BG has a chronic condition. There's a Tebow action figure stuffed up his ass

/thread

[Cugel]

There's a lot here to dissect.


OK well if they don't run up the gut 10 of the 13 times they probably wouldn't be 3-13 on 3rd downs.

They are running so much because Tebow can't throw accurate passes. Forgotten the Miami and Detroit games already have we? :coffee:


I Agree with Bull on a few points.

The play calling is beyond reproach right now and Denver is winning with them that is because the players will it and they win not because Fox/McCoy have a great game plan or know how to manage a game far from it IMO.

Fox is playing for THIS season because you have to win now in the NFL. But, Elway is looking to the future. He KNOWS what it takes to be a SB MVP and he looks at Tebow and doesn't see it.

And he knows that unless the Broncos get a QB who can make all the throws he will never bring another Lombardi Trophy to Denver. And he will have failed in the task that Pat Bowlen set him when he joined the team as head of Football Operations.

It's LONG term. There's a MODEL of how you do things in the NFL, and Elway knows what works and what doesn't -- long term.

So, winning or losing a few games this season may get the fans excited but it flat doesn't matter. What matters is having a QB who can stand back in the pocket and make all the throws, and hopefully run a bit too and make some plays.

In short, a guy as close to Aaron Rogers as you can find. Nobody is going to win a championship running the option no matter what ignorant fans may think.

Your QB won't last long enough for one thing to give you a reasonable chance. A five year window isn't very long. Elway provided the Broncos with a THIRTEEN year window (three years to learn the game, 13 during which the team COULD win a SB if they got it together).

That's what you need!


Also true no other FO would throw there starting QB to the wolves in a winning streak that was orchestrated by the QB on Offense. . . ."

Only true Tebowniacs think that mild and obvious criticism is "throwing your QB to the wolves." :rolleyes:


Oh and I agree with Elway. TT cannot be the Franchise QB until he improves his passing game. We all know that much & it cannot be denied. TT has said being belittled gives him fuel to succeed and I think Elway is using that for him to get more motivated in the Passing department. However, the boy cannot improve in that department averaging 5 pass plays for the first 3 Qtr's no QB would.

After the Miami and Detroit fiascos Tebowniacs ripped EFX for NOT installing an offense "to suit Tebow's unique abilities." Now that they have, they're criticizing because Fox ISN'T installing more pass plays? Hypocrite much?

The bottom line is that wins this season simply don't matter anymore than winning the first 6 games in 2010 mattered in the long-run. Elway is looking at the LONG-DISTANCE future.

That's what most fans focused on the short term and "sure" that Tebow "can develop his passing" because he was "great in college" (as if that had any relevance) can't appreciate.

[Mike]

The biggest problem here is that people are interpreting what they want to hear rather than what was actually asked and answered. Bull, you seem to working under the premise that Elway said Tebow is not doing well and/or is not going to be the future QB.

He didn't say that. He was asked if he is any closer to making that determination. And he said no. There's nothing wrong with a game being a 'push' in terms of evaluating what they need to evaluate. There's still 6 more to go so just take it down a notch.

Is there anything wrong with saying something along the lines:

"We appreciate and love what Tim is doing. He and the team are learning and improving and it is exciting to watch. There are areas that he can improve and with good coaching and time he can improve in those areas. Right now we are focused on winning the division and that begins with beating San Diego this weekend. We will take a look at the team in the off season and evaluate our needs then."

[Bullgator]

The biggest problem here is that people are interpreting what they want to hear rather than what was actually asked and answered. Bull, you seem to working under the premise that Elway said Tebow is not doing well and/or is not going to be the future QB.

He didn't say that. He was asked if he is any closer to making that determination. And he said no. There's nothing wrong with a game being a 'push' in terms of evaluating what they need to evaluate. There's still 6 more to go so just take it down a notch.

What if Bowlen was asked if he is any closer to deciding who the franchise GM would be next year and he said "um...... NO!"

Just not the right thing to do knowing the media is scouring your words to degrade your starting QB. It was dumb imo way. he could have handled that much, much, muchmuch better.

[Bullgator]

Is there anything wrong with saying something along the lines:

"We appreciate and love what Tim is doing. He and the team are learning and improving and it is exciting to watch. There are areas that he can improve and with good coaching and time he can improve in those areas. Right now we are focused on winning the division and that begins with beating San Diego this weekend. We will take a look at the team in the off season and evaluate our needs then."

see... see there...........see.... THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT! high five times abajillion

[BeefStew25]

Snot.

[BeefStew25]

Is there anything wrong with saying something along the lines:

"We appreciate and love what Tim is doing. He and the team are learning and improving and it is exciting to watch. There are areas that he can improve and with good coaching and time he can improve in those areas. Right now we are focused on winning the division and that begins with beating San Diego this weekend. We will take a look at the team in the off season and evaluate our needs then."

Because I don't what the head of my team sounding like an email from corporate.

[rationalfan]

funny thought: if elway had said the same exact thing two months ago about orton the tebowists would be screaming for elway to put in tebow; they wouldn't care about elway not giving orton support. perspective.

an idea for the tebowists: please start a separate tebow forum somewhere else on the internet. i'm not anti-tebow and i think some tebow discussion here is valid, but i'm sick of this board being monopolized by partisan rants that don't always reflect reality. at this point, i'm more interested in reading a colquitt thread.

a question for tebowists: what is it about your guy that makes you so devotional? i mean, von miller is a defensive maniac. texas a&m fans are pretty devoted fans. but this board isn't inundated with miller evangelists - even though he deserves much more praise than tebow. so, truly, what do you think is so great about tebow?

and just for kicks: rock chalk jayhawk. go chris harris.

[Mike]

Because I don't what the head of my team sounding like an email from corporate.

Wouldn't you rather your team be focusing on what matters, like beating SD, than listening to all the hooplah?

[TXBRONC]

There is no need to start a thread lol. Gather your torches and pitchforks and meet right here at this thread.

Like I said... its like your dad doing something dumb and you thinking "damn dad wtf were you thinking" but then you still have to have his back... so I dont take offense but you all know it was not what you want to see from your dad..er.. GM

You are being a drama queen. :drama:

[ShooterJM]

My opinion on this and all the other comments from TC on:

I don't disagree with them.

That being said, I've never seen a FO run down a player like this before. Aside from like a Chris Henry or someone like that who is an obvious cancer on the team that is. I've just never seen it done and done repeatedly. Once or twice can be chalked up to a PR misstep. But these are guys that are used to talking to the press, so I'm disinclined to give them a pass.

[Bullgator]

Because I don't what the head of my team sounding like an email from corporate.

YES dood, yes you do. BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE IS. He IS corporate now.

the last thing you want is your poker player to be gushing info on his hand. Close to the vest dawg.

[wayninja]

What if Bowlen was asked if he is any closer to deciding who the franchise GM would be next year and he said "um...... NO!"

Just not the right thing to do knowing the media is scouring your words to degrade your starting QB. It was dumb imo way. he could have handled that much, much, muchmuch better.

But that premise is silly. John already has the job. He's not being evaluated. Tim did not win this job, Orton lost it and TT was up next, therefore he's being evaluated.

If it were understood that Elway was in some sort of probationary period being evaluated by Bowlen on whether or not he could do the job, this Q/A would be perfectly reasonable.

[wayninja]

Is there anything wrong with saying something along the lines:

"We appreciate and love what Tim is doing. He and the team are learning and improving and it is exciting to watch. There are areas that he can improve and with good coaching and time he can improve in those areas. Right now we are focused on winning the division and that begins with beating San Diego this weekend. We will take a look at the team in the off season and evaluate our needs then."

No, there's nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with what was said. Both have their uses.

[Dreadnought]

Wouldn't you rather your team be focusing on what matters, like beating SD, than listening to all the hooplah?

Well, there is nothing quite like the irony of reading stuff cranked out by obsessed foam flecked loonies typing frantically and obsessively about how many obsessed foam flecked loonies there are obsessing over one guy.

I guess I don't get it. I'm just happy to be winning games in 2011 and happy that McDouche is no longer coaching my Broncos. Its all good.

[rationalfan]

My opinion on this and all the other comments from TC on:

I don't disagree with them.

That being said, I've never seen a FO run down a player like this before. Aside from like a Chris Henry or someone like that who is an obvious cancer on the team that is. I've just never seen it done and done repeatedly. Once or twice can be chalked up to a PR misstep. But these are guys that are used to talking to the press, so I'm disinclined to give them a pass.

uh, don't you remember shanahan ripping on players in press conferences? and since he was a coach/gm, that's the front office. also, bill parcels called terry glenn a "she" in a televised press conference. that trumps anything elway has said about tebow. perspective.

[Bullgator]

But that premise is silly. John already has the job. He's not being evaluated. Tim did not win this job, Orton lost it and TT was up next, therefore he's being evaluated.

If it were understood that Elway was in some sort of probationary period being evaluated by Bowlen on whether or not he could do the job, this Q/A would be perfectly reasonable.

actually make no mistake every high profile job is constantly being evaluated. If you think Elway is home free you are crazy. Tim probably has a longer contract than John does lol.

Let me put it to you like this... If John lets Tim go to say the Jags... and they get to the playoffs next year while the DB made the playoffs this year with tim and miss them next year... you think that John would still have a job?

[BeefStew25]

Wouldn't you rather your team be focusing on what matters, like beating SD, than listening to all the hooplah?

Are there any reports they aren't focused?

[TXBRONC]

Well, there is nothing quite like the irony of reading stuff cranked out by obsessed foam flecked loonies typing frantically and obsessively about how many obsessed foam flecked loonies there are obsessing over one guy.

I guess I don't get it. I'm just happy to be winning games in 2011 and happy that McDouche is no longer coaching my Broncos. Its all good.

I'm no foam flecked loon. :tsk:

[vandammage13]

I don't see what the uproar is about this OP and why everyone is all over Bull's ass...

I know he states his case agressively, but he made some valid points...I can't really think of a time where a GM didn't protect his QB whether he liked him or not...especially when they are in the middle of a possible playoff run.

What Elway said may have been the truth, but knowing how much more Tebow is scrutinized than any other player in the NFL, Elway probably should have worded his response to the question differently.

[Northman]

Wouldn't you rather your team be focusing on what matters, like beating SD, than listening to all the hooplah?


Im sure that Tim and company are doing that. Just was asked a question and he answered it with one word. Nothing wrong with that.

[BeefStew25]

YES dood, yes you do. BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE IS. He IS corporate now.

the last thing you want is your poker player to be gushing info on his hand. Close to the vest dawg.

He was asked a question and he answered. BFD.

He then cut the former starter.

Quit being insecure.

[Slick]

Every Monday, at 6:00 pm, John is on with Susie Wargin and Dave Logan. Not long ago, Susie ask John about his comment earlier this morning on the radio.

John's response - "Tim is still a work in progress. We will look at all those different scenarios at the end of the season".

Towards the end of the program, John stated:

"Tim is so much farther along than he was last season. His techniques are better now they they were".

John also stated that Adam Gates spends much time working with Tim.

In case anyone missed Carol's post in one of the other threads....


This was the same day he made the infamous "no" comment.

I can't believe the over reaction about this. Man.

[Northman]

uh, don't you remember shanahan ripping on players in press conferences? and since he was a coach/gm, that's the front office. also, bill parcels called terry glenn a "she" in a televised press conference. that trumps anything elway has said about tebow. perspective.

qft.

[Dreadnought]

I'm no foam flecked loon. :tsk:

I know. You never have been. There are one or two on both sides of this argument though. They are basically indistinguishable mirror images

[Northman]

In case anyone missed Carol's post in one of the other threads....


This was the same day he made the infamous "no" comment.

I can't believe he over reaction about this. Man.


People only want to see things they want to see. They never look at the bigger picture.

[BroncoNut]

I don't see what the uproar is about this OP and why everyone is all over Bull's ass...

I know he states his case agressively, but he made some valid points...I can't really think of a time where a GM didn't protect his QB whether he liked him or not...especially when they are in the middle of a possible playoff run.

What Elway said may have been the truth, but knowing how much more Tebow is scrutinized than any other player in the NFL, Elway probably should have worded his response to the question differently.

that is your opinion Vandy. and that's fine. I disagree, but that too is fine. this whole win now mentality must go if asked to speculate on the development of the franchise just has to stop. It's the thing that is hurting the most, and it' s because all of the Florida Tebow faggots.

[vandammage13]

I'm as big as an Elway fan as there is...but people need to separate Elway the player from Elway the Prez.

Elway dropped the ball on this one...period.

[Bullgator]

He was asked a question and he answered. BFD.

He then cut the former starter.

Quit being insecure.

I dont think you are seeing Ortons cut for what it is... they are freeing up a QB slot for the draft.

They mean to draft a QB to either take Tims job or, if Tim keeps winning(the further they will drop in the draft) then at least to compete. Could be wrong. But I doubt it.

This was not a move for tims sake... it was smart though... at least it frees up a couple mill.

[Northman]

I'm as big as an Elway fan as there is...but people need to separate Elway the player from Elway the Prez.

Elway dropped the ball on this one...period.

Only in your opinion.

[Fullback32]

I don't have any problems with what Elway said at all. There was nothing inaccurate in his words. He was asked a direct question and answered honestly. What was he to do, lie or sugarcoat it?

A couple of responses:

Tebow hasn't thrown any interceptions. True, but he's not likely to since he can barely throw the ball to any of his own receivers. They are either over the heads or at their feet. Not many chances for opposing cornerbacks to do much with that. Add in that Tebow throws 8 to 16 passes in a game, well the odds for INTs aren't high anyway.

Tebow is a rookie. Already been addressed, but I'll just add that this isn't an excuse. There are quarterbacks who are rookies, but show that they can throw the ball and need some polishing. Tebow doesn't even have the basics of throwing down. The Broncos will not win any championships with this style of offense.

I get he is 4-1 and that is goodness, but this high school/college/1930s version of offense is not sustainable in the NFL. It will fail down the stretch. I will also say that if Sanchez doesn't have such an abysmal game or our defense doesn't do as good a job as they did, the Jets win that game.

Lastly, Tebow's response to Elway's comments, "I honestly don't pay much attention," Tebow said. I know what you meant, but probably a poor choice of words. Tim, you probably should pay attention. John's the boss ya know.

[Northman]

I dont think you are seeing Ortons cut for what it is... they are freeing up a QB slot for the draft.

They mean to draft a QB to either take Tims job or, if Tim keeps winning(the further they will drop in the draft) then at least to compete. Could be wrong. But I doubt it.

This was not a move for tims sake... it was smart though... at least it frees up a couple mill.


They are/were going to take a QB next year anyway. Even if they didnt draft one they would sign a vet off the market since both Orton and Quinn are gone. Im not sure why your crying about the obvious here. :confused:

[Bullgator]

that is your opinion Vandy. and that's fine. I disagree, but that too is fine. this whole win now mentality must go if asked to speculate on the development of the franchise just has to stop. It's the thing that is hurting the most, and it' s because all of the Florida Tebow faggots.

Hey thanks buddy... I though we agreed not to use any derogatory terms on account of offending the poopshoot pirates...

[vandammage13]

that is your opinion Vandy. and that's fine. I disagree, but that too is fine. this whole win now mentality must go if asked to speculate on the development of the franchise just has to stop. It's the thing that is hurting the most, and it' s because all of the Florida Tebow faggots.

I agree, but even if you are the Prez and you don't think TT is the Franchise QB, you shouldn't say anything that could undermine a possible playoff run.

There is nothing to be gained by saying what he did. Elway can always draft a QB in 2012 if he wants, regardless of how he feels about Tebow.

[Dreadnought]

I dont think you are seeing Ortons cut for what it is... they are freeing up a QB slot for the draft.

They mean to draft a QB to either take Tims job or, if Tim keeps winning(the further they will drop in the draft) then at least to compete. Could be wrong. But I doubt it.

This was not a move for tims sake... it was smart though... at least it frees up a couple mill.

OK, that makes zero sense. It had nothing to do with the friggin' draft. Orton is a UFA for 2012, and there was never any chance we resigned him. There was no chance whatever that Orton was a Bronco come draft day, so the two are totally unrelated. The move

A) Saves money; and

B) Is in a vote of confidence for TT for the remainder of 2011.

Thats it. Really simple

[BeefStew25]

I dont think you are seeing Ortons cut for what it is... they are freeing up a QB slot for the draft.

They mean to draft a QB to either take Tims job or, if Tim keeps winning(the further they will drop in the draft) then at least to compete. Could be wrong. But I doubt it.

This was not a move for tims sake... it was smart though... at least it frees up a couple mill.

What is the slot you are talking about? Like right now I see you at your Commodore 64 wearing Gator slippers.

[Northman]

I agree, but even if you are the Prez and you don't think TT is the Franchise QB, you shouldn't say anything that could undermine a possible playoff run.

There is nothing to be gained by saying what he did. Elway can always draft a QB in 2012 if he wants, regardless of how he feels about Tebow.

Can you please show me where it has undermined a playoff run? Anything?

[Bullgator]

They are/were going to take a QB next year anyway. Even if they didnt draft one they would sign a vet off the market since both Orton and Quinn are gone. Im not sure why your crying about the obvious here. :confused:

whos crying? just pointing out this was not a move to re-enforce Tim as the starter like some would believe.

[slim]

I dont think you are seeing Ortons cut for what it is... they are freeing up a QB slot for the draft.

They mean to draft a QB to either take Tims job or, if Tim keeps winning(the further they will drop in the draft) then at least to compete. Could be wrong. But I doubt it.

This was not a move for tims sake... it was smart though... at least it frees up a couple mill.

WTF are you talking about. They would have had an open QB spot anyway. Maybe two, depending on how much they like Weber.

[BroncoNut]

Hey thanks buddy... I though we agreed not to use any derogatory terms on account of offending the poopshoot pirates...


the plural version (faggots) has been approved for use by Carol and Broncosforums

[Northman]

whos crying? just pointing out this was not a move to re-enforce Tim as the starter like some would believe.

How so? Beef just told you that it gives Tebow the rest of the year as the starter. How do you not see that?

[BroncoNut]

whos crying? just pointing out this was not a move to re-enforce Tim as the starter like some would believe.

If Tim needs constant kudos, he is not ready for the NFL

[wayninja]

actually make no mistake every high profile job is constantly being evaluated. If you think Elway is home free you are crazy. Tim probably has a longer contract than John does lol.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I suspect not since I believe Elway will eventually OWN the broncos. Having said that, the point is Moot. Bowlen was not asked about Elway.


Let me put it to you like this... If John lets Tim go to say the Jags... and they get to the playoffs next year while the DB made the playoffs this year with tim and miss them next year... you think that John would still have a job?

Yes. This happens all the time. No GM or executive is going to be held accountable for every permutation of possibility in what happens to players that are waived. That's ridiculous. All anyone can ask of Elway is that he make is best judgement and go with it.

[slim]

If Tim needs constant kudos, he is not ready for the NFL

I think he needs the opposite.

He needs a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

[Northman]

If Tim needs constant kudos, he is not ready for the NFL

Which is another thing the Cowherd addressed yesterday. Elway took a lot of abuse in the media as well and it only made him stronger. If Tim cant handle criticism he doesnt belong in professional football.

[vandammage13]

Can you please show me where it has undermined a playoff run? Anything?

It's not necessarily going to undermine anything, but it certainly doesn't help your QB when he has to answer questions about Elway's ho hum response. It is an unneeded distraction.

In a time that the playoffs are well within reach, you should do anything you can to build your guy's confidence especially when everywhere TT looks people are criticizing him.

[NightTrainLayne]

Good grief.

It's slogging through threads like this that make being a moderator an actual "job".

[BroncoNut]

Which is another thing the Cowherd addressed yesterday. Elway took a lot of abuse in the media as well and it only made him stronger. If Tim cant handle criticism he doesnt belong in professional football.

granted, he's getting more than most, but I think he will do it North. I do

[slim]

It's not necessarily going to undermine anything, but it certainly doesn't help your QB when he has to answer questions about Elway's ho hum response.

In a time that the playoffs are well within reach, you should do anything you can to build your guy's confidence especially when everywhere TT looks people are criticizing him.

I am sure the message inside the building is completely different than what is presented to the media.

[Bullgator]

How so? Beef just told you that it gives Tebow the rest of the year as the starter. How do you not see that?

Thats crazy... Tebow could have thrown 12 pick sixs and they would have never put KO back in... we all knew KO took his last snap when TT was put in the 2nd half of the SD game.. Quinn would be the next man up.

[wayninja]

I think he needs the opposite.

He needs a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

I think some in the FO feel the same way. But no... that couldn't possibly be, right?

[BeefStew25]

I think he needs the opposite.

He needs a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

I agree exactly. Elway knows this also. Tebow has always has his naysayers, and Tim's aim to please (I wish he was my boi friend) makes him work harder.

Leadership 101 for Elway here IMHO.

[Northman]

It's not necessarily going to undermine anything, but it certainly doesn't help your QB when he has to answer questions about Elway's ho hum response.

In a time that the playoffs are well within reach, you should do anything you can to build your guy's confidence especially when everywhere TT looks people are criticizing him.

Sorry, its not up to Elway to build Tim's confidence. And quite frankly, im not a Tebow homer such as yourself or BG and i can see that Tim is doing just fine. Nothing has phased the kid as far as the criticisms that have come his way. Its his over the top fanbase that are struggling with the criticisms when it has nothing to do with them. I said just a few posts ago, if Tim needs to be pampered in the NFL he doesnt belong there. But, i guess i have more faith in Tebow than you guys do and think he will be just fine.

[BeefStew25]

Good grief.

It's slogging through threads like this that make being a moderator an actual "job".

Good thing you aren't our QB.

[slim]

I think some in the FO feel the same way. But no... that couldn't possibly be, right?

They clearly want TT to fail….there is no other reasonable explanation.

[BroncoNut]

I agree exactly. Elway knows this also. Tebow has always has his naysayers, and Tim's aim to please (I wish he was my boi friend) makes him work harder.

Leadership 101 for Elway here IMHO.

I'm just glad Bullqueer, I mean Bullgator isn't our QB. He would fold like a wet paper bag

[slim]

Good grief.

It's slogging through threads like this that make being a moderator an actual "job".

Off topic.

Mods, please delete this post.

[BORDERLINE]

I guess the Gator came out of you huh?

It was not necessary for Elway to make those comments but, In reality all they did was tell people the truth. Elway wants a QB to play a certain way and we all know Tebow is anything but cookie-cutter.

It's hard not to question if this team can continue to win with a QB that has problems throwing the ball. There was countless possessions started in Jets territory and we could not muster any points on them. All Tebow has to do is play his heart out and i'm confident we will have a great chance to win.

On another note, Why would you bash ELWAY on a Broncos site??? Really, like this guy was nobody to all these fans. Like he didn't win BACK 2 BACK SB. Dude, that's like walking into a CRIP neighborhood wearing RED. I try to separate Elway the Legend/Player/Hero from Elway the VP.

To some people that's hard to do..

[vandammage13]

I am sure the message inside the building is completely different than what is presented to the media.

You are probably right and I hope so...

It certainly looks like the players have his back even if the FO does not.

[TXBRONC]

Good grief.

It's slogging through threads like this that make being a moderator an actual "job".

You agreed to do it. :lol:

[BeefStew25]

I'm just glad Bullqueer, I mean Bullgator isn't our QB. He would fold like a wet paper bag

Tony Robbins would need to be his QB coach.

[vandammage13]

Sorry, its not up to Elway to build Tim's confidence. And quite frankly, im not a Tebow homer such as yourself or BG and i can see that Tim is doing just fine. Nothing has phased the kid as far as the criticisms that have come his way. Its his over the top fanbase that are struggling with the criticisms when it has nothing to do with them. I said just a few posts ago, if Tim needs to be pampered in the NFL he doesnt belong there. But, i guess i have more faith in Tebow than you guys do and think he will be just fine.

I think TT will be fine as well...

Perhaps it should not be Elway's role to build the confidence of his players, but it should also not be his role to create distractions.

What Elway did was create a distraction....There is a problem when your QB has to answer questions about what his Prez said instead of focusing on the Chargers.

Elway made a mistake. It's OK, everyone does from time to time. If you can't see that he made a mistake then you are blind.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I dont think you are seeing Ortons cut for what it is... they are freeing up a QB slot for the draft.

They mean to draft a QB to either take Tims job or, if Tim keeps winning(the further they will drop in the draft) then at least to compete. Could be wrong. But I doubt it.

This was not a move for tims sake... it was smart though... at least it frees up a couple mill.

Free up a QB slot for the draft????? - BOTH Orton's and Quinn's contracts were/are up this year. Whether TT remains the starter next year, everyone, well apparently ALMOST everyone, knew that the Broncos would either draft a QB, or bring in a veteran. I am not sure why you did not realize this also.

[TXBRONC]

You are probably right and I hope so...

It certainly looks like the players have his back even if the FO does not.

Prove it.

[catfish]

You are probably right and I hope so...

It certainly looks like the players have his back even if the FO does not.

I don't think the FO doesn't have his back. I think they made a quote that left grey area for the media to jump on and ride into the ground. I don't think Elway wants Tebow to fail in anyway, and I believe he said exactly what he was thinking...the jury is still out on Tebow.

My complaint is that in the position Elway is in he can't really afford to leave grey are, but again it is a rookie mistake and is being blown WAY out of proportion, he then followed up on facebook trying to clear up what he said on the radio and ended up making it worse instead of just letting it die. I don't think it shows disrespect to Tebow or lack of support or whatever, it is someone in a high position who isn't yet used to having his words dissected in the media who made a mistake...no big deal.

and before I get roasted for saying Elway made a mistake, when all the major media outlets are calling out your front office for lack of support for your winning starting QB you ****** up. I think Elway will get better at handling Tebow related answers in the future. No big deal


also...go easy on the gator fanboi bullshit, there are plenty of Gator fans who come on here and give what I feel is a fair unbiased opinion

[BeefStew25]

Guys, there are 3 slots for QB. You learned that here.

[vandammage13]

Prove it.

Prove what?

[TXBRONC]

Prove what?

Prove the front office doesn't have Tebow's back.

[vandammage13]

Prove the front office doesn't have Tebow's back.

I never said that they didn't...

I said that the players appear to have his back EVEN "IF" the FO does not.

...As in, it really doesn't matter that much right now THIS YEAR as long as the players support him regardless if the FO likes him or not.

The only thing I have said is that Elway made a mistake in how he phrased his answer...I never said that he doesn't have his back.

[Northman]

What Elway did was create a distraction....

Uh, no he didnt Van, this is an absolutely retarded comment on your part. Tebow's mechanics have been the focus of Tim since he came into the league. If there is any distraction its already been there and didnt just all of a sudden manifest itself because of Elways response to a direct question. I have no problem with people saying Elway could of worded it better but lets not make up lies such as "a distraction" when that is clearly untrue. I hate to break it to you man, but Tebow will be criticized and talked about until he can prove to be a legit passer in the league. It doesnt matter if its with the Broncos or another team. He came into the NFL with questions surrounding his mechanics and every week that he plays it will be brought up and talked about.

[Bullgator]

I'm just glad Bullqueer, I mean Bullgator isn't our QB. He would fold like a wet paper bag

I attack sharks when I smell them bleed.

[jhildebrand]

You honestly think you can win a championship when your QB can't complete 50% of his passes, or convert 3rd downs?

Elway in SB 32 was 12 of 22 for 123 yards 0 TD's and 1 INT. Not exactly winning from the pocket

Just sayin

[vandammage13]

Uh, no he didnt Van, this is an absolutely retarded comment on your part. Tebow's mechanics have been the focus of Tim since he came into the league. If there is any distraction its already been there and didnt just all of a sudden manifest itself because of Elways response to a direct question. I have no problem with people saying Elway could of worded it better but lets not make up lies such as "a distraction" when that is clearly untrue. I hate to break it to you man, but Tebow will be criticized and talked about until he can prove to be a legit passer in the league. It doesnt matter if its with the Broncos or another team. He came into the NFL with questions surrounding his mechanics and every week that he plays it will be brought up and talked about.

OK..An additional distraction.

[Northman]

OK..An additional distraction.

Again, i ask you. How is it a distraction? Do you have anything to back up this claim? The only people who seem to think its a distraction is you and few other fans. From what ive heard in Tebow's interviews is he doesnt give a shit what was said. :lol:

[jhildebrand]

How in the hell can you undercut your rookie QB's confidence and flat out admit that you have no confidence in the kid IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON?

Dan Reeves did it to Elway SEVERAL times! Dan Reeves did it the season before drafting Maddox. He did it again in drafting Maddox. Dan often let it be known that he wasn't sure Elway might always be the guy who falls just short. You don't think that motivated Elway? Make him work harder? You don't think he knows what works with TT and pushes his buttons?

[rationalfan]

one other thing, just because i need to vent: tebow is NOT A ROOKIE.

he had an entire season, as a rookie, last year. it doesn't matter that there was a lockout which hampered his development. it doesn't matter that this is a new coaching regime (even though he has the same OC and his QB coach was on the coaching staff last year). technically, he's not a rookie. in fact, we all watched him start, and perform well, as a rookie. but somehow, this fact is conveniently forgotten.

all i ask of tebow criticism/compliments is that we treat him just like every other player on the roster. so, like walton, beadles and decker, he's not a rookie. truth.

[Bullgator]

one other thing, just because i need to vent: tebow is NOT A ROOKIE.

he had an entire season, as a rookie, last year. it doesn't matter that there was a lockout which hampered his development. it doesn't matter that this is a new coaching regime (even though he has the same OC and his QB coach was on the coaching staff last year). technically, he's not a rookie. in fact, we all watched him start, and perform well, as a rookie. but somehow, this fact is conveniently forgotten.

all i ask of tebow criticism/compliments is that we treat him just like every other player on the roster. so, like walton, beadles and decker, he's not a rookie. truth.

IMO until you PLAY 16 games you are a rookie. I dont care if your a bench vet... a ROOKIE ON THE FIELD

[BroncoNut]

IMO until you PLAY 16 games you are a rookie.

oh, your opinion. Hey, thanks., well I guess that's settled then.

[Bullgator]

and I bet you cower like a little bitch if no one treats you like the golden little faggotsboi that you are.

just kidding

lol...wut?

[Northman]

IMO until you PLAY 16 games you are a rookie. I dont care if your a bench vet... a ROOKIE ON THE FIELD

Unfortuantely, thats not reality. Just because Curtis Painter is now just getting to start for the Colts does not mean he is a rookie.

[vandammage13]

Again, i ask you. How is it a distraction? Do you have anything to back up this claim? The only people who seem to think its a distraction is you and few other fans. From what ive heard in Tebow's interviews is he doesnt give a shit what was said. :lol:

Because I know that despite Tebow having a knack for saying all the right things that he is still human.

Are you telling me that if your employer was telling you that he's not sold on you yet and you might not be in their future plans that it might not cause you to press a little bit?

I think that Tebow will ultimately be fine, but I just don't want anything NEEDLESSLY thrown out there that could have even a remote possibility of derailing this run we are on right now.

[catfish]

the oldest adage in management is praise in public, punish in private.

[wayninja]

whos crying? just pointing out this was not a move to re-enforce Tim as the starter like some would believe.

Then you aren't being objective. You really need to read between the lines. This move was a vote of confidence stronger than any meaningless media blurb he could have given.

[Bullgator]

Because I know that despite Tebow having a knack for saying all the right things that he is still human.

Are you telling me that if your employer was telling you that he's not sold on you yet and you might not be in their future plans that it might not cause you to press a little bit?

I think the Tebow will ultimately be fine, but I just don't want anything NEEDLESSLY thrown out there that could have even a remote possibility of derailing this run we are on right now.

Van you make too much sense dood. Logic has no place here, now dammit just take your thorazine, stair blankly, drool and nod dood! :drool:

[wayninja]

IMO until you PLAY 16 games you are a rookie. I dont care if your a bench vet... a ROOKIE ON THE FIELD

Hey, good for you. Unfortunately your belief is simply disputed by fact. Are you really trying to say that Aaron Rogers rookie season was 2008?

[BeefStew25]

Kenny McKinley is still a rookie.

[Rex]

Kenny McKinley is still a rookie.

Technically yes.

[BORDERLINE]

Uh, no he didnt Van, this is an absolutely retarded comment on your part. Tebow's mechanics have been the focus of Tim since he came into the league. If there is any distraction its already been there and didnt just all of a sudden manifest itself because of Elways response to a direct question. I have no problem with people saying Elway could of worded it better but lets not make up lies such as "a distraction" when that is clearly untrue. I hate to break it to you man, but Tebow will be criticized and talked about until he can prove to be a legit passer in the league. It doesnt matter if its with the Broncos or another team. He came into the NFL with questions surrounding his mechanics and every week that he plays it will be brought up and talked about.

I have to agree it he did create a distraction. If Elway could have worded it better (and your on-board with this) than this is not an issue of the Broncos having little confidence in Tebow.

Elway's comment leads to questions directed to Tebow about how he reacts to not having support from the FO. While there is a game on Sunday that has more importance than anything that it said on morning radio shows.

Anyhow I'm sure it's nothing to Teebs and this kind of stuff does not affect him.

His legion of followers is another issue.

[catfish]

There are point to both side of the rookie issue, while it is true Tim is a 2nd year player and really there is no argument about that, it could be said that the speed of the game can't be simulated in practice so only time on the field will help with that aspect of the game. Would you accept Tebow is a young player with playing time similar to the starting rookies currently on the field?

[wayninja]

There are point to both side of the rookie issue, while it is true Tim is a 2nd year player and really there is no argument about that, it could be said that the speed of the game can't be simulated in practice so only time on the field will help with that aspect of the game. Would you accept Tebow is a young player with playing time similar to the starting rookies currently on the field?

There is every reason in the world to qualify statement about his playing time. He hasn't had a full season's worth, no doubt about it. And he deserves at least that much time, I believe that too. The only issue here is semantics. He's not a rookie, it's that simple.

[Northman]

the oldest adage in management is praise in public, punish in private.

Unfortuantely, he's not being punished when the same guy who says "No, i dont know yet if he is our future QB" also says that he is improving week to week. Again, you guys focus on only one aspect of his comments which is disingenuine.

[Northman]

I have to agree it he did create a distraction.

Again, proof of this? Any players coming out saying that its a distraction? Is Tebow saying he cant concentrate on the gameplan because of what Elway said? I mean, i will be glad to read anything you have to prove this conspiracy theory.

[Rex]

BTW......Hey Bullgator

The only thing gayer than this thread is a male cheerleader blowing another male cheerleader.

[BORDERLINE]

Unfortunately, he's not being punished when the same guy who says "No, i don't know yet if he is our future QB" also says that he is improving week to week. Again, you guys focus on only one aspect of his comments which is disingenuine.

When have you read anywhere

"ELWAY says Tebow is improving"

Now I have heard it and we all have heard it but, the media does not report this kind of stuff. It does not stir debate in national sport shows.

But when Elway get's asked if we have the QB of the future and he says "NO"

Then all the national media picks up on it and it start these discussions/debates and all the other stuff. = DISTRACTION

Unnecessary talk and questions that will be asked to Tebow when simply it was not needed.

[vandammage13]

Again, proof of this? Any players coming out saying that its a distraction? Is Tebow saying he cant concentrate on the gameplan because of what Elway said? I mean, i will be glad to read anything you have to prove this conspiracy theory.

If you think TT isn't bothered by the criticism, here's another stark reminder that he's not impervious to it:


http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp11/story/_/id/6836076/denver-broncos-tim-tebow-says-critics-know-capable-of

"I'm trying to insulate myself from what people in the media are saying, but I've seen some of it, and it hurts because it's coming from people who haven't seen me practice, haven't seen me play, haven't seen what I can do," Tebow told the newspaper. "I did an interview the other day with someone on the NFL Network who said last year I'd never play a down in the NFL. He was wrong.

"Others who say I won't make it are wrong. They don't know what I'm capable of and what's inside me. My family and my friends have been bothered by what's gone on, and I tell them to pay no attention to it. I'm relying as always on my faith."


This was his response to criticism during the preseason, and you can tell it bothers him.

The guy has tons of supporters (moreso than most athletes), but he also has tons of detractors, and it just so happens that the detractors are mostly the ones with the platform to make their opinions known nationally.

Everytime he turns on the TV everyone tells him he can't (other than that weasel Skip Bayless), so when his own Boss gives those same critics fuel it certainly doesn't help him.

[Northman]

If you think TT isn't bothered by the criticism, here's another stark reminder that he's not impervious to it:


http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp11/story/_/id/6836076/denver-broncos-tim-tebow-says-critics-know-capable-of


This was his response to criticism during the preseason, and you can tell it bothers him.

The guy has tons of supporters (moreso than most athletes), but he also has tons of detractors, and it just so happens that the detractors are mostly the ones with the platform to make their opinions known nationally.

This was MONTHS ago. But im sure i could find simliar articles to where Tim says that he uses it too better himself going all the way back to high school. Again, you need to look at the bigger picture and not just selective memory.

[vandammage13]

This was MONTHS ago. But im sure i could find simliar articles to where Tim says that he uses it too better himself going all the way back to high school. Again, you need to look at the bigger picture and not just selective memory.

Yes North...It was months ago.

But it does prove that he's not impervious to the criticism.

You can ignore the evidence if you want, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I'll stick by my opinion that Elway made a mistake, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.:beer:

I would also like to add that I don't think this is nearly a big enough deal to break Tebow or the season...It's not really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but it was a bad comment by Elway....That is all.

[BORDERLINE]

Again, proof of this? Any players coming out saying that its a distraction? Is Tebow saying he cant concentrate on the gameplan because of what Elway said? I mean, i will be glad to read anything you have to prove this conspiracy theory.

anytime questions get asked that do not pertain to the actual NFL game and are coming from the mouth of your VP of football operations about your job security I would believe to be a distraction to the player.

Like I said North, this stuff probably doesn't affect Tebow. His fanboys are a different deal.

If the question where to be asked again "Do you have the QB of the future in Denver" all that was needed was "Where working on it" plain and simple.

You already said he could have worded it better and it turn not be an issue.

I'm sure it's not a BIG distraction. It's not the Ocho Cinco doesn't know the playbook or the Rex Ryan foot fetish distraction. But do you really wanna say something like that and disrupt your starting Q.B's psyche?

[Northman]

When have you read anywhere

"ELWAY says Tebow is improving"



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19387999


Tebow is steadily earning the trust of his coaches and teammates and buying more time to work on his shortcomings.


"I think obviously he's making progress week in and week out," Elway said of Tebow.


Quotes from Fox:


"At the end of the day, I see improvement and I think our team does," coach John Fox said. "That's all you can ask for, as a coach."



"The guy was a rookie a year ago, didn't have an exorbitant amount of reps in NFL games, had no offseason," Fox said. "There was a lot working against him and yet, right now, I see tremendous improvement."

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/07/elway-tim-tebow-improved-against-the-raiders/10597/


Broncos executive John Elway said quarterback Tim Tebow showed improvement in Sunday’s 38-24 win over Oakland (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19278169), but added that he needs to be better throwing the football.


“It really comes down to consistency,” Elway added. “Bottom line is, when guys are open, you’ve got to be consistent, and you’ve got to hit them. I think Tim’s throwing the ball better.”


Still, Elway said later, “Tim made some improvement yesterday, and made some really good throws.”

[Northman]

But do you really wanna say something like that and disrupt your starting Q.B's psyche?

For starters, Tebow already knows what John is looking for with his improvement. So, its not a "shock" to the system when John made his comments. If anything, it will continue to make Tim work harder at getting better. Plain and simple. If Tim allows that comment to bring him down to where he folds as a QB he doesnt belong in the NFL. Every QB to come out of college takes criticism and either you become an Aaron Rodgers or you become Ryan Leaf. Personally, i think Tim becomes a much better QB because of it.

[vandammage13]

Another thing I didn't agree with what Elway said was when he inferred that 3rd down conversions were the "Bottom Line."

I'll have to disagree there...3rd down conversions are certainly very important, but WINNING is the bottom line IMO.

I would even put Turnovers ahead of 3rd down conversion rate in the hierarchy of importance.

[catfish]

Unfortuantely, he's not being punished when the same guy who says "No, i dont know yet if he is our future QB" also says that he is improving week to week. Again, you guys focus on only one aspect of his comments which is disingenuine.

if you read back through my posts I have stated very clearly that I think the interview was positive and the only mistake IMO was saying anything that the media could take away as a negative.
The whole point of my post was in a position of manager you can say 100 positive things in public and noone cares, but the first negative thing you say is what everyone is going to be talking about

[vhatever]

For starters, Tebow already knows what John is looking for with his improvement. So, its not a "shock" to the system when John made his comments. If anything, it will continue to make Tim work harder at getting better. Plain and simple. If Tim allows that comment to bring him down to where he folds as a QB he doesnt belong in the NFL. Every QB to come out of college takes criticism and either you become an Aaron Rodgers or you become Ryan Leaf. Personally, i think Tim becomes a much better QB because of it.

THAT comment? Tebow is crucified in the media every day. The last thing he needs is jerkoffs in the front office piling on with inartful commentary.

[Poet]

"Elway's a jerkoff."

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH DAMN!!!

You don't know what you just did. They gon' kill yo, bruh. :lol::lol:

[NightTerror218]

I think Elway should not have said a flat out no. If threw gas on the fire and fed the media. He is needs to support all his players 24/7 and he should have said

"We are still evaluating Timmy and the QB situation during the season goes as we move on"

Rather then making "new" bronco fans furious and giving the media some juicy Elway vs Tebow gossip to run to the papers/blogs with.

P.S. "New" Bronco fans are ones that have became Bronco fans since TT joined team. I am not going to be an ass like most and call them Teboners or whatever. Because many could remain if he lives. This is a passionate fan base and many have extreme points of view.

[NightTerror218]

THAT comment? Tebow is crucified in the media every day. The last thing he needs is jerkoffs in the front office piling on with inartful commentary.

Lucky for you nobody knows where you live. :salute:

[Dzone]

Elway needs his ass kicked. End of story.

[vhatever]

"Elway's a jerkoff."

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH DAMN!!!

You don't know what you just did. They gon' kill yo, bruh. :lol::lol:

I don't care. I refer to anyone in the front office who says anything negative at this time. There is just no reason for it from a "motivational perspective". Bowlen knew the comment was stupid himself, including his support for the "orton package". And bang. Orton's gone, just to cover up this supposed "honesty" from Elway.

[Northman]

THAT comment? Tebow is crucified in the media every day. The last thing he needs is jerkoffs in the front office piling on with inartful commentary.

How are these comments piling on?


"I think obviously he's making progress week in and week out," Elway said of Tebow.


I think Tim’s throwing the ball better.”


Still, Elway said later, “Tim made some improvement yesterday, and made some really good throws.”

[catfish]

"Elway's a jerkoff."

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH DAMN!!!

You don't know what you just did. They gon' kill yo, bruh. :lol::lol:

he said someone in the front office was a jerkoff.....probably the mail guy, I hate that guy

[Poet]

I don't care. I refer to anyone in the front office who says anything negative at this time. There is just no reason for it from a "motivational perspective". Bowlen knew the comment was stupid himself, including his support for the "orton package". And bang. Orton's gone, just to cover up this supposed "honesty" from Elway.

John Elway is a big boy. Tim Tebow is a big boy. I'm pretty sure that Tim Tebow is smart enough to figure out the situation that he is in.

Tim Tebow acts and conducts himself like a man. John Elway conducts himself like a man.

You keep bringing up the Orton package. I've never heard of the Orton Package. Members of the board who bleed Broncos Orange and Blue keep saying it was a sarcastic comment and you're clinging to it.

When Troy Aikman came into the league he competed with another first round QB.

When Carson Palmer came into the league he lost the starting job to Jon Kitna.

Aaron Rodgers ate pine four what, four seasons sitting behind a legend?

Steve Young went into a situation were he had to replace what many feel is the best quarterback ever, and this is after he sucked in Tampa.

Tony Romo went from backup to starter on the most covered team in the NFL and dealt with the T.O. drama.

My point is that quarterbacks who are good to elite, in that wide spectrum, go through huge challenges.

All of them are a lot bigger than a 'jerkoff' saying that he's not sure if Tebow is the franchise QB of the future.

[vhatever]

How are these comments piling on?

Well, he more or less said that Tebow needs to do better on third downs. If you want third down conversions, why have we traded away our 2 best receivers in the last two years? Running game isn't great either, with a 30 year old RB with a gimpy hamstring and moreno gone entirely. We still have better 3rd down conversions than the 49'rs(with gore) and detroit(stafford/johnson). but I don't see their front office criticizing the offense for it -- QB in partituclar.

[BORDERLINE]

North you provided us with DenverPost articles.

I'm talking about the national media,

When skip and whoever go on first take they don't discuss that "Elway says Tebow is improving". When does NFL network have marshall and Irving debate that? They want the juicy stuff that stirs talk/debate.

look obviously you feel he didn't say anything wrong but he could have worded it better but, it wasn't a mistake.

I feel the same except it was a mistake so i'll leave it at that.

[Agent of Orange]

John Elway
Tim's doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He's a winner who gets better every day.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

This is on Johns facebook page.......

Look.....I love the kid......but.....do I think he is a franchise QB? I have no clue.

Johns job is to add people to make the team better, I have no doubt he is drafting a QB fairly high in the draft.....and it is prudent to do so......that position is crucial.

I fully expect John to do it like Shanny did with Jerry Rice, just give it to him/us straight. (No more Josh McDaniels tells you one thing to your face while trying to replace you behind closed doors crap)

At the end of the day, Tebow, like any young QB, will have to prove himself.

And I hope he does.

But John has a job to do as well.

And I understand that.

Yeah, and part of Elway's job is to not unnecessarily start fires. Elway has all the diplomacy of a jackhammer. His job requires diplomacy with a velvet glove--not a jackhammer. As it is right now, Tebow is better at dealing with the media than Elway.

Another thing, I don't care if Elway is going to claim that he's doing due diligence but this also requires going to games like LSU-Alabama as we have other potential needs as well.

[catfish]

Yeah, and part of Elway's job is to not unnecessarily start fires. Elway has all the diplomacy of a jackhammer. His job requires diplomacy with a velvet glove--not a jackhammer. As it is right now, Tebow is better at dealing with the media than Elway.

Another thing, I don't care if Elway is going to claim that he's doing due diligence but this also requires going to games like LSU-Alabama as we have other potential needs as well.

staying awake during LSU-Alabama is a whole nuther story

[BORDERLINE]

When have you read anywhere

"ELWAY says Tebow is improving"

Now I have heard it and we all have heard it but, the media does not report this kind of stuff. It does not stir debate in national sport shows.



you really didn't even read anything but the first two lines North.

[vandammage13]

staying awake during LSU-Alabama is a whole nuther story

Boring to some, but I'll bet defensive coaches probably creamed their pants watching that game.