Elway’s comments enrage Tebowmaniacs

[DenBronx]

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on November 22, 2011, 9:12 AM EST


John Elway’s lukewarm embrace of Tim Tebow as Denver’s “quarterback of the future” is not sitting well with Broncos fans.

Nate Kreckman of 102.3 in Denver documented some of the responses to Elway’s Twitter account after Elway said on the radio Monday that the Broncos were no closer to finding their quarterback.

These are are actual messages from Broncos fans to Elway:
READ THE FULL ARTICLE & ALL THE COMMENTS HERE:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/22/elways-comments-enrage-tebowmaniacs/

[DenBronx]

I wouldnt say those were true Broncos fans leaving comments on Elways twitter. Clearly Jagsbch has multiple twitter accounts. :laugh:


But seriously, I don't see anything wrong with what Elway has said or done to this point. Elway has been there, done that and he knows what it takes. He's not jumping the gun and going ALL IN just yet until he sees more.

Nor do I see anything wrong with what Plummer said yesterday and I'm a Christian. Tebow just needs to buckle down and learn the game so he can be the best he can be. Plummer I think is a Broncos fan at heart and all the guy ever did was win here. Tebow has that winning intangible and I think Plummer and Elway only want to see him succeed.

But with the leagues worst 3rd down and completion percentage he will get tough love.

[Dreadnought]

Its ironic I think. The noob Tebowmaniacs are at least as annoying as Hemmoroids, but they are not nearly as strident and unhinged as the guys who are predetermined that he will fail, or those fans who would rather the Broncos suck than that they win games behind the wrong guy playing the wrong way.

I will take jagsbch and his like over Hoge and Kordell Stewart and their disciples anytime, and that's pathetic.

[slim]

Those clowns are not Bronco fans.

[BroncoNut]

O.K. am i missing something? I agree with Elway tha t you're nbot going to win championships on 3rd and 13s. There are too many of those and they need improvement. Tebow is sill a poor passer. I don't even think it's tought love what Elway is saying. I think that's about as honest as one can be.

[slim]

On the plus side, Kreckman has graduated to reading other people's tweets.

[Dreadnought]

On the plus side, Kreckman has graduated to reading other people's tweets.

You thing 4-1 is giving him sleepless nights and indigestion?

[BroncoNut]

Its ironic I think. The noob Tebowmaniacs are at least as annoying as Hemmoroids, but they are not nearly as strident and unhinged as the guys who are predetermined that he will fail, or those fans who would rather the Broncos suck than that they win games behind the wrong guy playing the wrong way.

I will take jagsbch and his like over Hoge and Kordell Stewart and their disciples anytime, and that's pathetic.

I think Tebow would make an excellent 2nd down qb. I just don't see him as an everydown quarterback

[slim]

You thing 4-1 is giving him sleepless nights and indigestion?

Yes, I imagine it is.

Although I must admit, I stopped listening to him a while ago....so I can't be 100% sure.

[GEM]

Don't lump me in as a Broncos fan with those idiots.

How can someone love Tebow and all his pureness, but get angry because Elway was being honest. I guess being lied to is better than facing the reality that the guy needs some work. I guess they ignored the part where Elway during training camp was out in his shorts after each practice throwing the ball back and forth with Tebow. They missed the comment where Elway stated that he himself will work with Tim in the offseason. Ignore all that and focus on the part where Elway says he's not sure if the future is on this team. Tim is such a hard worker, he'll prove to Elway that he is the future. Nice having faith in your guy, morons.

[NightTerror218]

Don't lump me in as a Broncos fan with those idiots.

How can someone love Tebow and all his pureness, but get angry because Elway was being honest. I guess being lied to is better than facing the reality that the guy needs some work. I guess they ignored the part where Elway during training camp was out in his shorts after each practice throwing the ball back and forth with Tebow. They missed the comment where Elway stated that he himself will work with Tim in the offseason. Ignore all that and focus on the part where Elway says he's not sure if the future is on this team. Tim is such a hard worker, he'll prove to Elway that he is the future. Nice having faith in your guy, morons.

I am at point of taking what ever comes out of the front office/coach mouth as crap. They keep jumping the fence on opinions and never give straight forward answers. I rather just sit back and watch games then listen to them talk.

"Best chance to win"- EFX
"Timmy's biggest fan"- Elway
"QB competition"- EFX

[Dreadnought]

Don't lump me in as a Broncos fan with those idiots.

How can someone love Tebow and all his pureness, but get angry because Elway was being honest. I guess being lied to is better than facing the reality that the guy needs some work. I guess they ignored the part where Elway during training camp was out in his shorts after each practice throwing the ball back and forth with Tebow. They missed the comment where Elway stated that he himself will work with Tim in the offseason. Ignore all that and focus on the part where Elway says he's not sure if the future is on this team. Tim is such a hard worker, he'll prove to Elway that he is the future. Nice having faith in your guy, morons.

GEM, I think this whole episode was ginned up by PFT, for their own purposes. I don't think Elway did anything particularly right or wrong. It was seized upon by douches who loathe Tebow for reasons all their own, and reacted to by loonies who were never all that objective to begin with and who have an almost automatic involuntary tic after watching months of possibly the most ridiculously over the top criticism of a sports figure in my lifetime. Neither Elway nor Tebow did anything wrong, and both handled things just fine. Rosenthal of PFT however subsequently made up this line of horseshit for his own purposes.

[BroncoNut]

I am at point of taking what ever comes out of the front office/coach mouth as crap. They keep jumping the fence on opinions and never give straight forward answers. I rather just sit back and watch games then listen to them talk.

"Best chance to win"- EFX
"Timmy's biggest fan"- Elway
"QB competition"- EFX

I pretty much take it with a grain of sand. in depth analysis and predictions can be interesting from time to time, but I'm with you there Phide

[GEM]

I am at point of taking what ever comes out of the front office/coach mouth as crap. They keep jumping the fence on opinions and never give straight forward answers. I rather just sit back and watch games then listen to them talk.

"Best chance to win"- EFX
"Timmy's biggest fan"- Elway
"QB competition"- EFX

Just because some didn't like the outcome of the competition doesn't mean there wasn't one. Obviously they felt Tim was that far behind. Same for the best chance to win. Perhaps they were wrong, but it's how they felt. Everything out of them is still opinion. Football guys can be wrong.

Elway just said if Tim could pass efficiently he would be unstoppable. If he could pass efficiently, you are damn skippy he would be Tebow's biggest fan. If he can help with that in the offseason and the kid comes out able to do what he's done in this five games and pass the ball....he will be ecstatic. Sorry if he isn't yet, but not being able to pass efficiently is a pretty big deal for a qb.

Just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth.

[MileHighCrew]

it should say the Teboi's are angry not Bronco fans

[BroncoNut]

Just because some didn't like the outcome of the competition doesn't mean there wasn't one. Obviously they felt Tim was that far behind. Same for the best chance to win. Perhaps they were wrong, but it's how they felt. Everything out of them is still opinion. Football guys can be wrong.

Elway just said if Tim could pass efficiently he would be unstoppable. If he could pass efficiently, you are damn skippy he would be Tebow's biggest fan. If he can help with that in the offseason and the kid comes out able to do what he's done in this five games and pass the ball....he will be ecstatic. Sorry if he isn't yet, but not being able to pass efficiently is a pretty big deal for a qb.

Just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth.

Gem, I took the post as meaning that they're all bs cliches, not necessarily untruths. Am I correct Philde? Please tell me I am correct

[NightTerror218]

Just because some didn't like the outcome of the competition doesn't mean there wasn't one. Obviously they felt Tim was that far behind. Same for the best chance to win. Perhaps they were wrong, but it's how they felt. Everything out of them is still opinion. Football guys can be wrong.

Elway just said if Tim could pass efficiently he would be unstoppable. If he could pass efficiently, you are damn skippy he would be Tebow's biggest fan. If he can help with that in the offseason and the kid comes out able to do what he's done in this five games and pass the ball....he will be ecstatic. Sorry if he isn't yet, but not being able to pass efficiently is a pretty big deal for a qb.

Just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth.

To me the QB competition was udder crap. 1 QB got all 1st team reps, they never even looked back. They were stuck with Orton and so they were going to use him. The "QB competition" was a smoke screen because Quinn sucks and TT is unorthodox and less accurate. They were never given 1st rep chances.

I want to see TT be accurate. But if he keeps winning I am happy, because we will be a heavy old school running team. HE NEEDS TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS THOUGH. Because you can draft a new guy to add pressure to starting position and if new guy can run the same offense and be more accurate then we have a new starter. I am all about drafting a QB or getting a good FA that can pressure TT for starting position.

[Skacorica]

Its ironic I think. The noob Tebowmaniacs are at least as annoying as Hemmoroids, but they are not nearly as strident and unhinged as the guys who are predetermined that he will fail, or those fans who would rather the Broncos suck than that they win games behind the wrong guy playing the wrong way.

I will take jagsbch and his like over Hoge and Kordell Stewart and their disciples anytime, and that's pathetic.

This. :beer:

[Northman]

I will take jagsbch and his like over Hoge and Kordell Stewart and their disciples anytime, and that's pathetic.

Ill take neither. Both groups are complete idiots.

[lgenf]

it should say the Teboi's are angry not Bronco fans

See there's where you are wrong

Yes there is a new bunch of folks that came to this team with Tim, but don't for a second think that a large bunch of broncos nation hasn't embraced Timmy and think he has done enough to at least get support from the front office.

Those same folks were broncos fans before Timmy was here.

I am not one, but there are plenty on here and other forums, or call in shows

Not everyone that is a broncos fan thinks elway can do no wrong in his new roll

[Dreadnought]

Ill take neither. Both groups are complete idiots.

Oh I will agree here. I just don't want us to pretend that its only the Teboi's who are making jackasses of themselves. Plus, I will give them more of a pass in that they at least are rooting for someone they admire, even if some border on the delusional. Why some folks root against the dude with at least equal foaming at the mouth stridency is honestly beyond me.

[Ziggy]

The pro Tebow extremsits like JagsB and Gatorfan are ridiculously attacking anyone who doesn't jump on Tebow's jock, and the anti Tebow extremists like Kiper and Hodge are trying to make a name for themselves by attacking everything that Tebow does wrong. The funny thing is, Tebow is the most humble guy you would ever want to meet according to both college and pro teammates. The pro Tebow extremists go against everything that Tebow stands for, and the anti extremists don't bother him in the least.

You can look at most any Tebow thread on this forum and separate the Bronco fans from the Tebow fanatics. Unfortunately the media lumps us all in together.

[MOtorboat]

That's embarrassing.

[MileHighCrew]

See there's where you are wrong

Yes there is a new bunch of folks that came to this team with Tim, but don't for a second think that a large bunch of broncos nation hasn't embraced Timmy and think he has done enough to at least get support from the front office.

Those same folks were broncos fans before Timmy was here.

I am not one, but there are plenty on here and other forums, or call in shows

Not everyone that is a broncos fan thinks elway can do no wrong in his new roll

I'm wrong because you say so??? I don't think so. Broncos fans... true Broncos fans might not like what Elway has done and they will call him out on it but I read the string of tweets attacking him, insulting him and the championships and those are not Bronco fans.
Sorry I have been around long enough to see Broncos fans upset and those are not Broncos fans.
Have some Broncos fans learned to love Tebow. Of Course, some of the magic he has pulled off has been amazing, I too am a fan of the magic, but read the tweets.

[claymore]

EFX are trying to build a team. Tebow needs to make some huge strides as a passer to make all this tebowmania worth it.

[claymore]

See there's where you are wrong

Yes there is a new bunch of folks that came to this team with Tim, but don't for a second think that a large bunch of broncos nation hasn't embraced Timmy and think he has done enough to at least get support from the front office.

Those same folks were broncos fans before Timmy was here.

I am not one, but there are plenty on here and other forums, or call in shows

Not everyone that is a broncos fan thinks elway can do no wrong in his new roll

I dont think there are very many long term Bronco fans that will question Elways analysis of Tebow.

I find it refreshing that he shoots from the hip with the truth. I want all options on the table to make this team better.

[BroncoNut]

EFX are trying to build a team. Tebow needs to make some huge strides as a passer to make all this tebowmania worth it.

If Tim delivers the Broncos to the promised land this season, He will be hated to a dangerous level.

[GEM]

To me the QB competition was udder crap. 1 QB got all 1st team reps, they never even looked back. They were stuck with Orton and so they were going to use him. The "QB competition" was a smoke screen because Quinn sucks and TT is unorthodox and less accurate. They were never given 1st rep chances.

I want to see TT be accurate. But if he keeps winning I am happy, because we will be a heavy old school running team. HE NEEDS TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS THOUGH. Because you can draft a new guy to add pressure to starting position and if new guy can run the same offense and be more accurate then we have a new starter. I am all about drafting a QB or getting a good FA that can pressure TT for starting position.

You can feel that way, I can agree that it wasn't as much of a competition as I would have liked, but to call them liars. I don't feel it fair for me to go there. I wasn't there, I didn't see what they saw that drew them to that conclusion. But I can say that they wouldn't intentionally keep the best QB off the field. With what they saw and the players they had, they made the decision they best felt comfortable with moving forward. In hindsight, it was the wrong choice, but it's easy to say now. Being wrong doesn't mean they lied, it just means they were wrong.

And that is all Elway said. He wants to see improvement before saying Tebow is his guy. It gives him an out if Tebow can't get to where they want him.

[MileHighCrew]

I want to Broncos to win championships and I trust Elway to build those teams. If it is with Tebow great if not great too as long as the Broncos become world champions. I love Champ Bailey, Von Miller, Doom, Decker, DJ. ect. ect. ect if those aren't the players to win that championship then I want him to find the right mix to do it. I cheer for the team not the name on the back of the jersey.

[NightTerror218]

You can feel that way, I can agree that it wasn't as much of a competition as I would have liked, but to call them liars. I don't feel it fair for me to go there. I wasn't there, I didn't see what they saw that drew them to that conclusion. But I can say that they wouldn't intentionally keep the best QB off the field. With what they saw and the players they had, they made the decision they best felt comfortable with moving forward. In hindsight, it was the wrong choice, but it's easy to say now. Being wrong doesn't mean they lied, it just means they were wrong.

And that is all Elway said. He wants to see improvement before saying Tebow is his guy. It gives him an out if Tebow can't get to where they want him.

It was not a lie, but more of telling people what they wanted to hear, that TT had a chance to be the starter which he didn't really. It was more to appease the fans more than anything. Because Orton is by far more polished QB and more of a pocket passer but horrible in games and under pressure. I also saw it as a 9 million dollar QB that was gone in a year and rather then breaking in a young QB rather just let him ride pine a little longer and try to win more games.

[Northman]

Cowherd said it best while listening to his show on the way home today.

"For those that are stuck on just latest wins, they are prisoners of those wins. For a guy like Elway and those like minded, he is looking LONGTERM and looking to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not just a handful of games. Any QB can win a handful of games (JaMarsh Russell, etc) but you need a QB like a Aaron Rodgers, Brady, Manning, etc to win championships and multiple ones"

I said this a few weeks ago, there is a possibility that Tim could win a championship in Denver. But for me im not a Broncos fan to just win ONE championship. I want to have a QB who can lead us to MANY or at the very least appearances in the SB. If Tim can improve on the things that Elway has pointed out, great. But if he cant than Denver needs to move on.

[NightTerror218]

Gem, I took the post as meaning that they're all bs cliches, not necessarily untruths. Am I correct Philde? Please tell me I am correct

They keep throwing out these lines, that end up being thrown back in their faces later on.

[catfish]

You can feel that way, I can agree that it wasn't as much of a competition as I would have liked, but to call them liars. I don't feel it fair for me to go there. I wasn't there, I didn't see what they saw that drew them to that conclusion. But I can say that they wouldn't intentionally keep the best QB off the field. With what they saw and the players they had, they made the decision they best felt comfortable with moving forward. In hindsight, it was the wrong choice, but it's easy to say now. Being wrong doesn't mean they lied, it just means they were wrong.

And that is all Elway said. He wants to see improvement before saying Tebow is his guy. It gives him an out if Tebow can't get to where they want him.

following up on that there wasn't a whole lot of time to do a full competition because of the lockout and remember they also had to analyze players at every position on the field at the same time, they probably had 1 week at most to analyze the qb, then analyze the positions around him.

Can't blame fox for going with what looked like the more polished passer at the time, just wish Orton wouldn't have sucked so thoroughly, Tebow could have sat this year had an offseason to improve his throwing and possible come out strong. Now he is trying to limp through the season as best as possible but it is far from pretty

[Dreadnought]

I dont think there are very many long term Bronco fans that will question Elways analysis of Tebow.

I find it refreshing that he shoots from the hip with the truth. I want all options on the table to make this team better.

And again, I don't think even Tebow would disagree with Elway's assessment. Tebow's audition is ongoing, and this is a perfect year to do it because we were in such a hole that its like we're playing with house money now. There has been very good stuff, and some not so hot stuff. He, Elway, you, me, pretty much anyone can see his passing needs work. All most of us want now is regular improvement. I don't see that as a controversial statement. If Tebow craps the bed for games 11-16 then of course Elway has to evaluate that - and that evaluation will be different than if we end up at .500 or better in what we had all written off as a lost season.

[rcsodak]

I wouldnt say those were true Broncos fans leaving comments on Elways twitter. Clearly Jagsbch has multiple twitter accounts. :laugh:


But seriously, I don't see anything wrong with what Elway has said or done to this point. Elway has been there, done that and he knows what it takes. He's not jumping the gun and going ALL IN just yet until he sees more.

Nor do I see anything wrong with what Plummer said yesterday and I'm a Christian. Tebow just needs to buckle down and learn the game so he can be the best he can be. Plummer I think is a Broncos fan at heart and all the guy ever did was win here. Tebow has that winning intangible and I think Plummer and Elway only want to see him succeed.

But with the leagues worst 3rd down and completion percentage he will get tough love.
I really hate it when you make sense.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Northman]

And again, I don't think even Tebow would disagree with Elway's assessment. Tebow's audition is ongoing, and this is a perfect year to do it because we were in such a hole that its like we're playing with house money now. There has been very good stuff, and some not so hot stuff. He, Elway, you, me, pretty much anyone can see his passing needs work. All most of us want now is regular improvement. I don't see that as a controversial statement. If Tebow craps the bed for games 11-16 then of course Elway has to evaluate that - and that evaluation will be different than if we end up at .500 or better in what we had all written off as a lost season.

Thats just it, Tebow isnt disagreeing which is great because it means that Tebow understands he still has things to work on. Unfortuantely, for the fanbois they overeact to the point where they start bashing the shit out of Elway for giving an honest assessment of the QB position. But the thing that the fanbois are missing is that both Elway have been positive AND critical of Tebow all year long, even before he was the starter. Yet, it hasnt stopped Tebow for going out and doing what he does best and they've even gone a step further to put him in situations to where he will succeed. But, continuing to read the absolute horsecrap that the fanbois put on this site is just flat out embarrassing.

[Mike]

My thoughts...

1) Tebow has to get better passing. I am sure that he agrees. I also believe that stats don't always paint a whole story and you can't lay it all at the feet of "Tebow can't throw" (i.e. 3rd down percentage, drops, playcalling, etc). But there is no doubt that he has many miles to go to be a good QB.

2) I don't know where I stand on Elway's comments. I believe he is being honest though. I don't fault him for not being sold long-term on Tebow and appreciate that he is seemingly unaffected by short-term success. That said, I hope he doesn't equally toss out the potential in Tebow simply because he doesn't like his style of play. Of course, there is always the possibility that Elway is trying to use his comments to spur Tebow to get better.

3) I would like the organization to show some confidence in Tebow. While many of Tebow's ardent supporters see things that aren't there, I believe they are right in the FO not exactly having Tebow's back. It would be a start if Fox and Elway would commit to Tebow through the end of this season and then see where we go from there. This includes opening up the offense for him and allowing him room to fail. Let me see a gameplan that uses what they did in the last drive as the plan for 4 qtrs with the read option included.

4) I love what Elway did for the organization as a player, but that does not give him a pass or expert status in the management department. He is as much a rookie at his job as Tebow is at his. McD screwed up free passes for the FO in my book. I will support and hope for the best, but will not blindly defend just because he is the best QB of all time and greatest Bronco to don Orange and Blue.

[vandammage13]

Thats just it, Tebow isnt disagreeing which is great because it means that Tebow understands he still has things to work on. Unfortuantely, for the fanbois they overeact to the point where they start bashing the shit out of Elway for giving an honest assessment of the QB position. But the thing that the fanbois are missing is that both Elway have been positive AND critical of Tebow all year long, even before he was the starter. Yet, it hasnt stopped Tebow for going out and doing what he does best and they've even gone a step further to put him in situations to where he will succeed. But, continuing to read the absolute horsecrap that the fanbois put on this site is just flat out embarrassing.

I think the problem with what Elway said is that there is a time to be truthful and a time to be tactful. What is there to be gained by fueling the fire?

During the time of a economic crisis should the President say "OK we're screwed...take all of your $$ out of your 401k's because you are going to lose money." No, that just makes a bad situation even worse.

What Elway said may have been the truth, but it does nothing to help this team that is on the verge of winning the division. What does Elway have to gain by being completely transparent with Vic and Gary on a local morning radio talk show?

Elway knew that question was probably coming and should have been more prepared to answer it properly. He probably should have responded with something along the lines of "We're still evaluating Tim and we think we'll have a better idea where we're going at the end of the year," as opposed to just "Uhhhhh....No."

Both responses are truthful, but one gives critics fuel and now TT is bombarded with questions about how he feels about the FO not supporting him.

I just thought Elway could have answered the question better in a time that our team needs to be focused more on potentially earning a playoff berth rather than answering questions about the FO's long-term commitment to Tebow.

Elway was a great QB for us, but he is as new to his current position as TT is at his, and clearly he has just as much to learn about his job as does Tim.

Hopefully both will grow together in their respective positions and the Broncos will be better off for it. :beer:

[wayninja]

And again, I don't think even Tebow would disagree with Elway's assessment. Tebow's audition is ongoing, and this is a perfect year to do it because we were in such a hole that its like we're playing with house money now. There has been very good stuff, and some not so hot stuff. He, Elway, you, me, pretty much anyone can see his passing needs work. All most of us want now is regular improvement. I don't see that as a controversial statement. If Tebow craps the bed for games 11-16 then of course Elway has to evaluate that - and that evaluation will be different than if we end up at .500 or better in what we had all written off as a lost season.

I agree with you, but since we are .500 now, we are back to playing with our own money. We need to win to have a spot in the playoffs, we can't kiss the games away as experiments or learning opportunities anymore.

Again, only irrational people with be bothered by what Elway said. He hasn't decided Tebow is the guy yet. He hasn't decided that he isn't the guy either. So?

[MileHighCrew]

My thoughts...

1) Tebow has to get better passing. I am sure that he agrees. I also believe that stats don't always paint a whole story and you can't lay it all at the feet of "Tebow can't throw" (i.e. 3rd down percentage, drops, playcalling, etc). But there is no doubt that he has many miles to go to be a good QB.

2) I don't know where I stand on Elway's comments. I believe he is being honest though. I don't fault him for not being sold long-term on Tebow and appreciate that he is seemingly unaffected by short-term success. That said, I hope he doesn't equally toss out the potential in Tebow simply because he doesn't like his style of play. Of course, there is always the possibility that Elway is trying to use his comments to spur Tebow to get better.

3) I would like the organization to show some confidence in Tebow. While many of Tebow's ardent supporters see things that aren't there, I believe they are right in the FO not exactly having Tebow's back. It would be a start if Fox and Elway would commit to Tebow through the end of this season and then see where we go from there. This includes opening up the offense for him and allowing him room to fail. Let me see a gameplan that uses what they did in the last drive as the plan for 4 qtrs with the read option included.

4) I love what Elway did for the organization as a player, but that does not give him a pass or expert status in the management department. He is as much a rookie at his job as Tebow is at his. McD screwed up free passes for the FO in my book. I will support and hope for the best, but will not blindly defend just because he is the best QB of all time and greatest Bronco to don Orange and Blue.

your 4th point is where we disagree. If anyone in the world deserves a couple season to put his vision in place it is Elway for the Broncos. I am not blind to what he is doing either, but I trust to give him time. They say the strike hurt Tebow, well I am sure it didn't help EFX get things going like they hoped.
The biggest decission Elway had to make in his role was the #2 pick inthe draft. If we go back in time Von wasn't thought by many to be that pick going into the draft and some wanted to fire EFX right then and there because they passed on marcell dareus. I think time has shown Elway hit a homerun with his first big choice in this role.

[Northman]

3) I would like the organization to show some confidence in Tebow. While many of Tebow's ardent supporters see things that aren't there, I believe they are right in the FO not exactly having Tebow's back. It would be a start if Fox and Elway would commit to Tebow through the end of this season and then see where we go from there. This includes opening up the offense for him and allowing him room to fail. Let me see a gameplan that uses what they did in the last drive as the plan for 4 qtrs with the read option included.




See, i disagree here. Elway and Fox have both given Tebow kudos for the things he has done well. Why it is nobody wants to point that out is baffling to me. But i agree with Colin that giving Tebow criticism HELPS him more than hinders him. If all Tebow heard was "positive" things than he would become complacent and never improve. Right now, the fact that Elway still says he needs to work on things is what is pushing Tebow to better himself as a player.

As to opening up the offense, i would agree. But i think right now they are bringing Tim along slowly and right now the schemes in place have worked but going against better QB's will likely change that format.

[rationalfan]

putting stock in those online comments directed at elway is like assuming this board is as credible as the new york times.

and, please, don't take this as me ripping on the board. i'm not. i just can't believe some online comments - generally viewed as the lowest, most reactive and narrow form of modern communication - are being used to measure the broncos' fan base's view of elway. ridiculous.

[Northman]

I think the problem with what Elway said is that there is a time to be truthful and a time to be tactful. What is there to be gained by fueling the fire?

During the time of a economic crisis should the President say "OK we're screwed...take all of your $$ out of your 401k's because you are going to lose money." No, that just makes a bad situation even worse.

What Elway said may have been the truth, but it does nothing to help this team that is on the verge of winning the division. What does Elway have to gain by being completely transparent with Vic and Gary on a local morning radio talk show?

Elway knew that question was probably coming and should have been more prepared to answer it properly. He probably should have responded with something along the lines of "We're still evaluating Tim and we think we'll have a better idea where we're going at the end of the year," as opposed to just "Uhhhhh....No."

Both responses are truthful, but one gives critics fuel and now TT is bombarded with questions about how he feels about the FO not supporting him.

I just thought Elway could have answered the question better in a time that our team needs to be focused more on potentially earning a playoff berth rather than answering questions about the FO's long-term commitment to Tebow.

Elway was a great QB for us, but he is as new to his current position as TT is at his, and clearly he has just as much to learn about his job as does Tim.

Hopefully both will grow together in their respective positions and the Broncos will be better off for it. :beer:


But it doesnt hurt Tebow, it hasnt all year and isnt now so why complain about something that ZERO effect on the team? And again, Tebow is being graded every week and will be the rest of the year so i have no problem with Elway saying that Tim still needs work. Tebow has admitted that Elway is correct so why are you guys all of a sudden panicking when Tebow himself is not?

[Dreadnought]

putting stock in those online comments directed at elway is like assuming this board is as credible as the new york times.

and, please, don't take this as me ripping on the board. i'm not. i just can't believe some online comments - generally viewed as the lowest, most reactive and narrow form of modern communication - are being used to measure the broncos' fan base's view of elway. ridiculous.

Sorry, this Board is more credible than the New York Times. It is also more credible than News of the World. That was a poor example. Now, the Washington Post is reasonably credible, as is the New York Post. NYT is not.

[BroncoNut]

Sorry, this Board is more credible than the New York Times. It is also more credible than News of the World. That was a poor example. Now, the Washington Post is reasonably credible, as is the New York Post. NYT is not.

the Washington Post sucks Dread. I'm ashamed of you

no, I don't know what's credible anymore.

[vandammage13]

But it doesnt hurt Tebow, it hasnt all year and isnt now so why complain about something that ZERO effect on the team? And again, Tebow is being graded every week and will be the rest of the year so i have no problem with Elway saying that Tim still needs work. Tebow has admitted that Elway is correct so why are you guys all of a sudden panicking when Tebow himself is not?

I'm not panicking at all...TT will be fine.

That being said, despite the fact that some ppl think the guy is Superman, he is merely a mortal human like the rest of us...I just think it might help the guy a little to know that the FO has his back. (Even if that does mean drafting another QB next year for competition.)

Whether or not Tebow can handle it is not the point, but rather that Elway should have handled the question better.

[Northman]

I'm not panicking at all...TT will be fine.

That being said, despite the fact that some ppl think the guy is Superman, he is merely a mortal human like the rest of us...I just think it might help the guy a little to know that the FO has his back. (Even if that does mean drafting another QB next year for competition.)

Whether or not Tebow can handle it is not the point, but rather that Elway should have handled the question better.


But the FO does have his back. Im still not clear on why you think they dont. As to Elway's comments i think they were fine and he handled it fine so i guess we will have to agree to disagree there. Being honest about a QB's progression is not having his back.

[catfish]

But the FO does have his back. Im still not clear on why you think they dont. As to Elway's comments i think they were fine and he handled it fine so i guess we will have to agree to disagree there. Being honest about a QB's progression is not having his back.

I don't think Tebow feels like they don't have his back. I am simply saying it could have been worded in such a way as to not give any gray area about the fact, thus saving us hours worth of debate over what is essentially a non-issue....its a matter of wording and not sentiment IMO

[CoachChaz]

Let's be realistic. Until Tebow shows a sign of having the potential to be a competent passer...the FO has no choice but to continue looking to add another QB next year.

That being said...maybe other areas/deficiencies in the team contribute to TT's struggles, but let's be real. Even the worst rookie on the worst team is capable of having a game or two where they complete 50% or more of their passes.

I think I fall right in line with Elway. There is no denying that TT is a winner and accomplishes some crazy things on the field...but until he shows some competency as a passer...I cant say he is the QB I want on this roster for the next 10 years.

I'm pulling for the guy as much as anyone. I think he is a special human being and it rubs off on his teammates. But I need to see more

[wayninja]

I don't think Tebow feels like they don't have his back. I am simply saying it could have been worded in such a way as to not give any gray area about the fact, thus saving us hours worth of debate over what is essentially a non-issue....its a matter of wording and not sentiment IMO

I'm fine with Tebow thinking the FO doesn't have his back. He seems to play better that way.

[Dreadnought]

Let's be realistic. Until Tebow shows a sign of having the potential to be a competent passer...the FO has no choice but to continue looking to add another QB next year.

That being said...maybe other areas/deficiencies in the team contribute to TT's struggles, but let's be real. Even the worst rookie on the worst team is capable of having a game or two where they complete 50% or more of their passes.

I think I fall right in line with Elway. There is no denying that TT is a winner and accomplishes some crazy things on the field...but until he shows some competency as a passer...I cant say he is the QB I want on this roster for the next 10 years.

I'm pulling for the guy as much as anyone. I think he is a special human being and it rubs off on his teammates. But I need to see more

The good news is that if its humanly possible for him to become a better passer he will. Or, put another way, if he doesn't succeed in becoming a better passer it won't be because he got distracted or wouldn't put in the time and effort.

[catfish]

I'm fine with Tebow thinking the FO doesn't have his back. He seems to play better that way.

I don't know if I agree. I feel hi passing was better last year. I feel like he might take more chances with passes if he didn't somewhere in the back of his mind think if this gets picked I won't play next week.(again all my opinion no facts to back it up)

[BroncoNut]

I don't know if I agree. I feel hi passing was better last year. I feel like he might take more chances with passes if he didn't somewhere in the back of his mind think if this gets picked I won't play next week.(again all my opinion no facts to back it up)

I think you're right. He throws to now get picked. He's actually made some real nice passses this year. Just not enough of them (O.K. , O.K. easy there vhatever, he did win games so the passing game is just fine, my bad :covershead:)

[LTC Pain]

Who gives a flying bat fart what the Tebowites opine. There concern is singular biased for there homeboy. I'm a fan of the team, Broncos. When the Tebowites start talking team I will take them off ignore.

[BroncoNut]

Who gives a flying bat fart what the Tebowites opine. There concern is singular biased for there homeboy. I'm a fan of the team, Broncos. When the Tebowites start talking team I will take them off ignore.

bat fart. :lol: that's pretty funny

[Northman]

Who gives a flying bat fart what the Tebowites opine. There concern is singular biased for there homeboy. I'm a fan of the team, Broncos. When the Tebowites start talking team I will take them off ignore.

Dont hold your breath. :lol:

[Thestrategist1]

This is getting absolutely rediculous now. Elway **** please ( Iam losing faith in your management ability and Integrity right now), you have a winning QB at the helm not only that but he has brought veterans and youth alike, together unlike anyone I have seen before including Elway himself, actually the only thing that is even close for these 2 is their popularity.

Then I come to this fan sight and everyone here is a fan on opposite sides of the fence, bickering amongst ourselves, squabbling over the scraps of the plate McDickface left us with.

We now have a young high upside QB at the helm but NO we cant wait a season or 2 to see how he develops NO we need it now and it has to be in the form of a high octane passing attack with a high turnover ratio (Trust me here look at all the rooks)

So what we can set this franchise back another 3 years as the young kid develops???(If he ever does) I keep hearing RGIII but hes gonna flop trust me on that he has no "Nuts" and all QBs look good in College.

Does anyone really see someone coming in here next season and doing better then Tebow??? Seriously with the personel we have around any QB right now other then Tebow we would not be in this race at all period!!!! I am getting to the point now, where its like bench Tebow and see what happens. Orton would have thrown a Pick 6 in the 4th and Quinn would throw ducks within 5 yards to finish it out.

Everyone needs to just accept the fact that Tebow is gonna be here for a long time. Bowlin knows as well as anyone that Tebow is a cash cow and they will milk him for all hes worth.

I was watching old highlights reminising about when Elway was our hero, I was young but he didnt do it pretty, watch the 91' AFC playoff game againt Houston, Final drive just overthrow after overthrow but on 4th & 10 he hit a wide open Vance Johnson who ran it into FG range and we won ( Thank you Rich Carlos). It was ugly but a WIN. Watch the Drive again it was so similar to what Tebow did to the Jets, you will get chills!!!! From the run to the left, to the diving catch the TE made, to how his Safeties and defense were walking the sidelines knowing John would do "IT", To Johns interview about what was said in the Huddle, Its almost creepy!!!!

I have flown off my rocker today I cant take anymore bashing of My Team and its QB, I just cant, all these so called experts can suck it, they are all retarded. Plus all us fans debating about it everyday and the constant scrutiny we give him is just BS, he is 24yrs old. it took Elway 3 years to grasp this game (He was Benched and only got another shot when DeBerg went down) and set in motion a legacy for himself (The Drive) but more importantly it took him 15years to win the big one.

Sorry but I see the same damn thing I saw in Elway, I have a reason to believe again for the same reasons that I always believed in Elway. No matter the odds, No matter the yardage, No matter if he was injured, No matter whatever the circumstances, We Always had a chance with John and now I feel the same way with Tebow.

I Believe!!!!

[sneakers]

Who gives a flying bat fart what the Tebowites opine. There concern is singular biased for there homeboy. I'm a fan of the team, Broncos. When the Tebowites start talking team I will take them off ignore.

lol tebowites

I am partial to calling them tebowfags, myself


I think people are reading waaaaay too much into Elway's comments.

[wayninja]

lol tebowites

I am partial to calling them tebowfags, myself


I think people are reading waaaaay too much into Elway's comments.

Tebowfags get pissed off at clouds that block the sunlight from hitting his brow, so this is no surprise.

[Cugel]

I wouldnt say those were true Broncos fans leaving comments on Elways twitter. Clearly Jagsbch has multiple twitter accounts.

Those aren't Broncos fans at all! NO Broncos fan would say something like "


How does it feel @johnelway from being our hero to be almost as hated as Philip Rivers?

4. Hey @johnelway you lost 3 superbowls and your team won 2 for you when u were washed up so shut your f#$% mouth

You have to laugh at these total imbeciles. Talk about clueless!

Well, let them go and worship at the next team Tebow goes to. Good riddance to wet trash! :wave:

They are the fan equivalent of plastic baby diapers that have been sitting in a landfill for a few Summer months! :ranger:

[catfish]

Tebowfags get pissed off at clouds that block the sunlight from hitting his brow, so this is no surprise.

please everyone knows the sun shines out his ass :cool:

[Cugel]

Anybody who rips Elway doesn't remember this:

http://www.fortunecity.com/wembley/ewood/41/ridehigh.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0124/20080124__Parade1998~p1.jpg

Now and forever one of the best days of my life. :beer:

[NightTerror218]

Those aren't Broncos fans at all! NO Broncos fan would say something like "


You have to laugh at these total imbeciles. Talk about clueless!

Well, let them go and worship at the next team Tebow goes to. Good riddance to wet trash! :wave:

They are the fan equivalent of plastic baby diapers that have been sitting in a landfill for a few Summer months! :ranger:

Except there are tons of those comments. Not just the few that were in that article.

[MOtorboat]

Except there are tons of those comments. Not just the few that were in that article.

That doesn't make the comments any less ridiculous.

[Cugel]

Except there are tons of those comments. Not just the few that were in that article.

And NONE of them are real Broncos fans! NOT ONE! They are Teboners. There's a difference. When Tebow goes to another team they'll go with him.

They know NOTHING about the Broncos legacy! They didn't suffer through the long years when Denver sucked before Elway came. They didn't watch as Wade Phillips ran the team into the ground. They didn't bleed Orange and Blue when Josh McMoron exploded the team, and then set the remains on fire.

In short they are Mayflies who worship at Tebow's altar. If he wasn't a Bronco they wouldn't be here. And they won't be here when he's gone. :coffee:

[NightTerror218]

And NONE of them are real Broncos fans! NOT ONE! They are Teboners. There's a difference. When Tebow goes to another team they'll go with him.

They know NOTHING about the Broncos legacy! They didn't suffer through the long years when Denver sucked before Elway came. They didn't watch as Wade Phillips ran the team into the ground. They didn't bleed Orange and Blue when Josh McMoron exploded the team, and then set the remains on fire.

In short they are Mayflies who worship at Tebow's altar. If he wasn't a Bronco they wouldn't be here. And they won't be here when he's gone. :coffee:


And the REAL FANS rooted for the entire team no matter what even during the games. They would not rant and rave and talk shit about players during the game. And you still think TT is going somewhere, if anything he will be competing with another young QB for starter IF there is one drafted. The more TT wins the less likely that will happen.

[Thestrategist1]

And NONE of them are real Broncos fans! NOT ONE! They are Teboners. There's a difference. When Tebow goes to another team they'll go with him.

They know NOTHING about the Broncos legacy! They didn't suffer through the long years when Denver sucked before Elway came. They didn't watch as Wade Phillips ran the team into the ground. They didn't bleed Orange and Blue when Josh McMoron exploded the team, and then set the remains on fire.

In short they are Mayflies who worship at Tebow's altar. If he wasn't a Bronco they wouldn't be here. And they won't be here when he's gone. :coffee:

Your dead wrong!!!! I have been a Broncos fan since I was 4yrs old and I for one agree with how upset these fans are right now get on board Elway he reminds us all of you!!!

[Thestrategist1]

Let's be realistic. Until Tebow shows a sign of having the potential to be a competent passer...the FO has no choice but to continue looking to add another QB next year.

That being said...maybe other areas/deficiencies in the team contribute to TT's struggles, but let's be real. Even the worst rookie on the worst team is capable of having a game or two where they complete 50% or more of their passes.

I think I fall right in line with Elway. There is no denying that TT is a winner and accomplishes some crazy things on the field...but until he shows some competency as a passer...I cant say he is the QB I want on this roster for the next 10 years.

I'm pulling for the guy as much as anyone. I think he is a special human being and it rubs off on his teammates. But I need to see more

They might hit 50% but they throw 2-3 INTs and that hurts worse then 44% completion percentage anyday!!!

[GEM]

Anybody who rips Elway doesn't remember this:

http://www.fortunecity.com/wembley/ewood/41/ridehigh.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0124/20080124__Parade1998~p1.jpg

Now and forever one of the best days of my life. :beer:

Vhat wouldn't. That was when the Broncos beat his Packers. :laugh:

[GEM]

Your dead wrong!!!! I have been a Broncos fan since I was 4yrs old and I for one agree with how upset these fans are right now get on board Elway he reminds us all of you!!!

Who is us all?

[Thestrategist1]

Anybody who rips Elway doesn't remember this:

http://www.fortunecity.com/wembley/ewood/41/ridehigh.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0124/20080124__Parade1998~p1.jpg

Now and forever one of the best days of my life. :beer:

Mine too but it was really the night before, Remember the excessive celebration that got the fans tear gassed.

[Npba900]

O.K. am i missing something? I agree with Elway tha t you're nbot going to win championships on 3rd and 13s. There are too many of those and they need improvement. Tebow is sill a poor passer. I don't even think it's tought love what Elway is saying. I think that's about as honest as one can be.

All Tebow ever asked for a chance to play. Well, Elway has given Tebow his chance to not only play but to start as well when 31 other NFL teams would have had Tebow riding the bench.

In essence Elway will have given T2 11 games in 2011 (short of injuries) to show that within a spread-read option scheme he must also make marked improvement with passing accuracy. Tebow couldn't ask for a more fair opportunity and should be thankful!

The Tebow fans should realize that Tebow has 11 games in 2011 and perhaps the 2012 season to prove he can become an accurate consistent passer in the NFL. He T2 can't make the improvement he may find Elway trying to convince him to make a positiion change to TE or get waived as a QB in his fourth season.

[NightTerror218]

All Tebow ever asked for a chance to play. Well, Elway has given Tebow his chance to not only play but to start as well when 31 other NFL teams would have had Tebow riding the bench.

In essence Elway will have given T2 11 games in 2011 (short of injuries) to show that within a spread-read option scheme he must also make marked improvement with passing accuracy. Tebow couldn't ask for a more fair opportunity and should be thankful!

The Tebow fans should realize that Tebow has 11 games in 2011 and perhaps the 2012 season to prove he can become an accurate consistent passer in the NFL. He T2 can't make the improvement he may find Elway trying to convince him to make a positiion change to TE or get waived as a QB in his fourth season.

IMO i could see several teams trying TT out to see how he fairs just like we did after Orton went to crap. I can think of 2 FL teams right off the top of my head.

[Thestrategist1]

All Tebow ever asked for a chance to play. Well, Elway has given Tebow his chance to not only play but to start as well when 31 other NFL teams would have had Tebow riding the bench.

In essence Elway will have given T2 11 games in 2011 (short of injuries) to show that within a spread-read option scheme he must also make marked improvement with passing accuracy. Tebow couldn't ask for a more fair opportunity and should be thankful!

The Tebow fans should realize that Tebow has 11 games in 2011 and perhaps the 2012 season to prove he can become an accurate consistent passer in the NFL. He T2 can't make the improvement he may find Elway trying to convince him to make a positiion change to TE or get waived as a QB in his fourth season.

I agree. Tebow has earned the rest ofr this season and next season, if by the end of next season hes not producing more then, next man up. He has gotten better every game, as far as, ball placement but what I really like is that he does not turn the ball over and any rookie gunslinging QB we bring in will throw a ton of them. Cam Newton is already at 14 INTs and I just watched Christain Ponder throw 3 INTs and lose the game for his team. I dont see anyone who falls that far that is worth the risk. RG3 doesnt impress me if he was to run the same style system then hes hurt in a few weeks and to me he throws like Tebow did in college while in a harder conference SEC

[hamrob]

And again, I don't think even Tebow would disagree with Elway's assessment. Tebow's audition is ongoing, and this is a perfect year to do it because we were in such a hole that its like we're playing with house money now. There has been very good stuff, and some not so hot stuff. He, Elway, you, me, pretty much anyone can see his passing needs work. All most of us want now is regular improvement. I don't see that as a controversial statement. If Tebow craps the bed for games 11-16 then of course Elway has to evaluate that - and that evaluation will be different than if we end up at .500 or better in what we had all written off as a lost season.I think part of the problem is this:

Elway has said very little positive about Tim. He's said that he's a good football player/not QB. Repeatedly. But, he's never once stuck up for Tim and said, he's young, he's our QB, he's going to have growing pains...but, we have confidence in him

Yet, with Orton..."Kyle is our QB"...he gives us the best chance to win....on and on and on and on!

Then, Elway says on the radio that his QBOF is still not on the roster. Why do that? The Broncos are getting ready for thier biggest game in 2yrs...and your head of football operations comes out with a statement like that. Wow.

That has to be amongst the stupidest things I've ever seen. I mean, what do you accomplish? Does it make Tim feel good? Does it make the players feel good about Tim? Just wow!


I think the world about Elway....but, I can't see how folks can defend such poor decision making on his part.

There are three ways to answer that question:

1. Yes, Tim has work to do, but he's proven he can win and he's our guy for the immedite future.

2. Tim is getting better each week, we like what we are seeing, he has that inate ability that is hard to find, but he still has a lot of work to do. But, he's improving every day.

3. No

Damn, you're about to go play your most important game of the year. What choice do you make?

Of course, this is just one guys opinion...but, that was a McD response!!!

[Ravage!!!]

He hasn't "earned" anything. You can't say he's "earned the right" when that decision is based on SOOO much more. The DEFENSE has won these games... NOT Tebow. Our offense is absolutely PATHETIC right now. If our defense/special teams, doesn't get onside kicks, forces fumbles.. kicks 50+ yrd FGs, and return INTs for TDs....... we don't win SHIT.

Our offense is flat out TERRRIBLE, and THAT is what Tebow will be judged on by the staff.

[Dreadnought]

He hasn't "earned" anything. You can't say he's "earned the right" when that decision is based on SOOO much more. The DEFENSE has won these games... NOT Tebow. Our offense is absolutely PATHETIC right now. If our defense/special teams, doesn't get onside kicks, forces fumbles.. kicks 50+ yrd FGs, and return INTs for TDs....... we don't win SHIT.

Our offense is flat out TERRRIBLE, and THAT is what Tebow will be judged on by the staff.

The offense is not "terrible." The running attack has been outstanding. It just has. We are up to 4th in the NFL in rushing per game after a dismal beginning. We are even up to 11th in passing TD's if you can believe it. The offense is a work in progress, but its doing some very important things very well indeed. We don't throw picks, we no longer surrender sacks, and its looking pretty promising from what I've seen.

I fear you are getting lost in hyperbole and caught up in the myth that offense must always equal passing yards..

[MOtorboat]

The offense is not "terrible." The running attack has been outstanding. It just has. We are up to 4th in the NFL in rushing per game after a dismal beginning. We are even up to 11th in passing TD's if you can believe it. The offense is a work in progress, but its doing some very important things very well indeed. We don't throw picks, we no longer surrender sacks, and its looking pretty promising from what I've seen.

I fear you are getting lost in hyperbole and caught up in the myth that offense must always equal passing yards..

The team isn't scoring Dread. Winning, yes, but not scoring. Rushing, yes, but not scoring. It's the same as three years ago. All these passing yards but no point to go with it.

The offense has to score more and keep more drives alive, especially if you have the field position they had against New York. That was just plain pathetic that they couldn't score more than three points.

[Northman]

I wouldnt discredit Tebow totally Rav. While the running game and defense has stepped up its still Tebow who has driven the team down to get the wins. But overall the team is playing better and allowing the game to stay close enough so that Tebow can do that. Now, will that last? Not likely but i cant discredit Tebow for actually pulling out his inner Elway and getting it done when needed.

[TXBRONC]

The team isn't scoring Dread. Winning, yes, but not scoring. Rushing, yes, but not scoring. It's the same as three years ago. All these passing yards but no point to go with it.

The offense has to score more and keep more drives alive, especially if you have the field position they had against New York. That was just plain pathetic that they couldn't score more than three points.

I know you don't like Cutler but lets not try to rewrite history. We averaged about 24 ppg when he was starting quarterback and averaged about 20 to 22 ppg with that mega quarterback stud Kyle Orton.

[jhildebrand]

kicks 50+ yrd FGs,

Misses 40 yard FG's

:lol:

I couldn't resist.

[Dreadnought]

The team isn't scoring Dread. Winning, yes, but not scoring. Rushing, yes, but not scoring. It's the same as three years ago. All these passing yards but no point to go with it.

The offense has to score more and keep more drives alive, especially if you have the field position they had against New York. That was just plain pathetic that they couldn't score more than three points.

I didn't say the offense was especially good yet (apart from the Oakland game, where it was awesome) but its not "terrible" either. That is an exagerration. We are all of 15 points below league average in points scored. "Terrible" would be the likes of the Browns, Jagwads, and Rams, not the Broncos.

[vhatever]

I didn't say the offense was especially good yet (apart from the Oakland game, where it was awesome) but its not "terrible" either. That is an exagerration. We are all of 15 points below league average in points scored. "Terrible" would be the likes of the Browns, Jagwads, and Rams, not the Broncos.

How we doing in turnover differential?

[Dreadnought]

How we doing in turnover differential?

-4. We still suck, but we had a lot of ground to make up. We were already at -6 after just 4 games.

[MOtorboat]

I know you don't like Cutler but lets not try to rewrite history. We averaged about 24 ppg when he was starting quarterback and averaged about 20 to 22 ppg with that mega quarterback stud Kyle Orton.

What I don't like is people who sugar coat what he did, which is collapse three straight seasons and rank in the bottom half of the league in scoring. I know he compiled a ton of yards, but he wasn't in the top of the league scoring no matter how you sugar coat it.

The Tebow led offense is even worse so far. Yup, he's winning, and that's a quarterback's job, but I heard all off season how this team scored more with Tebow, and it's not happening right now, despite the wins. That's why people say it won't continue.

As far as Dread's assertion that offense isn't terrible...I think it was nine straight three and outs and three points on the board last Thursday before Goodman made a play. That's not good.

[TXBRONC]

What I don't like is people who sugar coat what he did, which is collapse three straight seasons and rank in the bottom half of the league in scoring. I know he compiled a ton of yards, but he wasn't in the top of the league scoring no matter how you sugar coat it.

The Tebow led offense is even worse so far. Yup, he's winning, and that's a quarterback's job, but I heard all off season how this team scored more with Tebow, and it's not happening right now, despite the wins. That's why people say it won't continue.

As far as Dread's assertion that offense isn't terrible...I think it was nine straight three and outs and three points on the board last Thursday before Goodman made a play. That's not good.

Cutler became the starter midway through his rookie season a season which was already starting to collapse defensively. We had already lost most of our tie breakers when Cutler became the starter. You should know as well as anyone that we didn't anything could be called a defense the 2 1/2 seasons that Cutler was the quarterback.

MO it sounds like you're trying to have it both ways. You're criticized Cutler because we didn't win now you're criticizing because we are winning. Pick a freakin side man and stick with it. :lol:

Maybe you ought to look at the stats. Statistically a Tebow lead offense vs. a Orton lead damn near identical. I just found that out this evening. The difference is Tebow doesn't fold crunch time. I agree with you he needs to improve and I have no problem with Elway saying that he's not convinced that Tebow is the future of this franchise but with him at the helm we're winning. I think it's very unlikely Orton leads Denver to come back wins against the Dolphins, Raiders and Jets especially the Dolphins and the Jets given the circumstance of the game.

[tomjonesrocks]

I wanted to post "I don't know what we're yelling about!" from Anchorman, but had technical difficulties.

Is what Elway said that controversial? Tebow HAS to pass better to be a long term solution. Even Tebow has to know this.

The sky is blue. About as fair a statement that can be made, occasional heroics aside.

[MOtorboat]

Cutler became the starter midway through his rookie season a season which was already starting to collapse defensively. We had already lost most of our tie breakers when Cutler became the starter. You should know as well as anyone that we didn't anything could be called a defense the 2 1/2 seasons that Cutler was the quarterback.

MO it sounds like you're trying to have it both ways. You're criticized Cutler because we didn't win now you're criticizing because we are winning. Pick a freakin side man and stick with it. :lol:

Maybe you ought to look at the stats. Statistically a Tebow lead offense vs. a Orton lead damn near identical. I just found that out this evening. The difference is Tebow doesn't fold crunch time. I agree with you he needs to improve and I have no problem with Elway saying that he's not convinced that Tebow is the future of this franchise but with him at the helm we're winning. I think it's very unlikely Orton leads Denver to come back wins against the Dolphins, Raiders and Jets especially the Dolphins and the Jets given the circumstance of the game.

I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. (As far as the defense excuse with Cutler...three straight years, same result, that's on him, not any lame excuse you can come up with).

You cannot commend Cutler for his time in Denver over passing yards and commend Tebow for the team's rushing yards without acknowledging the lack of points. Cutler isn't a winner. Tebow is. That's the difference. That said, that's why I brought up the sustainability of winning in an offense that can't produce points. I know it can't be done.

Of course Orton doesn't get it done, we know that, but we also know Denver isn't going to sustain winning by scoring less than 15 points a game.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. (As far as the defense excuse with Cutler...three straight years, same result, that's on him, not any lame excuse you can come up with).

You cannot commend Cutler for his time in Denver over passing yards and commend Tebow for the team's rushing yards without acknowledging the lack of points. Cutler isn't a winner. Tebow is. That's the difference. That said, that's why I brought up the sustainability of winning in an offense that can't produce points. I know it can't be done.

Of course Orton doesn't get it done, we know that, but we also know Denver isn't going to sustain winning by scoring less than 15 points a game.

You are completely dishonest. Cutler isn't a winner? I guess that's why his team won the division last year and is in a position to make the playoffs again this year. Your dislike for the guy gets in the way objectivity. You were one those who swore up and down Cutler's would never win their division and wouldn't even make the playoffs. When you were proven wrong you moved on to your next excuse.

[Northman]

I think what is really sad is that in 6 years Orton has 7 4th quarter comebacks. Meanwhile, in 8 games Tebow already has 3. lol

[Agent of Orange]

I think what is really sad is that in 6 years Orton has 7 4th quarter comebacks. Meanwhile, in 8 games Tebow already has 3. lol

Isn't it 4?

[Northman]

Isn't it 4?

Nah, i thought so at first too. Your thinking the Oakland game like me. But in that game Royal had a punt return and McGahee had a long TD run late in the game. I guess when they attribute actual comebacks its only if the QB himself is doing it with his legs or arm.

[TXBRONC]

I think what is really sad is that in 6 years Orton has 7 4th quarter comebacks. Meanwhile, in 8 games Tebow already has 3. lol

Four my friend. The Texans last season and then the Dolphins, Raiders, and Jets this year.

[vhatever]

Nah, i thought so at first too. Your thinking the Oakland game like me. But in that game Royal had a punt return and McGahee had a long TD run late in the game. I guess when they attribute actual comebacks its only if the QB himself is doing it with his legs or arm.

Who is "they"?

[Northman]

Four my friend. The Texans last season and then the Dolphins, Raiders, and Jets this year.

Nah, he doesnt get credit for the Raider win as the reasons i pointed out.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=TeboTi00

[Superchop 7]

John Elway
Tim's doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He's a winner who gets better every day.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

This is on Johns facebook page.......

Look.....I love the kid......but.....do I think he is a franchise QB? I have no clue.

Johns job is to add people to make the team better, I have no doubt he is drafting a QB fairly high in the draft.....and it is prudent to do so......that position is crucial.

I fully expect John to do it like Shanny did with Jerry Rice, just give it to him/us straight. (No more Josh McDaniels tells you one thing to your face while trying to replace you behind closed doors crap)

At the end of the day, Tebow, like any young QB, will have to prove himself.

And I hope he does.

But John has a job to do as well.

And I understand that.

[TXBRONC]

Nah, i thought so at first too. Your thinking the Oakland game like me. But in that game Royal had a punt return and McGahee had a long TD run late in the game. I guess when they attribute actual comebacks its only if the QB himself is doing it with his legs or arm.

Ok now I see why you said three come from behind wins instead of four.

[Northman]

Ok now I see why you said three come from behind wins instead of four.


I think the other thing is (although im not 100% sure) is that the comeback vs the Raiders started in the 3rd quarter and not the 4th. But i could be wrong on that but i could of swore Eddies return happened then.

[TXBRONC]

I think the other thing is (although im not 100% sure) is that the comeback vs the Raiders started in the 3rd quarter and not the 4th. But i could be wrong on that but i could of swore Eddies return happened then.

I've heard a win is defined as comeback win when you are either or tie or behind going into the fourth quarter. If you go with that as the definition it would count as a comeback win because Denver didn't tie the game until the very last play of the third quarter.

[Northman]

I've heard a win is defined as comeback win when you are either or tie or behind going into the fourth quarter. If you go with that as the definition it would count as a comeback win because Denver didn't tie the game until the very last play of the third quarter.

Yea, i dont know.

When i look at the notes section in that link they are determining a "true" comeback as a GWD (Game Winning Drive). So the thought process on the Raider game may be that Denver had jumped ahead of Oakland in the 4th and since there was no need for a GWD they didnt count it as an actual QB come from behind victory which makes sense i guess.

[FlyByU]

That's one of the things I like about Elway you ask him a question like the answer or not you get to hear what he is thinking. That is a big plus in the FO IMO.

I myself do not see TT as the franchise QB right now. TT has to get better at passing and I think that it would get better if McCoy would call about 30 per game we just have to live with missed passes and int's until he gets his passing down. If TT doesn't get a different QB that can.

I like what TT has and wish he could just be avg passer because that would go a long way with everything else he has to offer. If we get rid of TT and someone spends time with him and develops him then starts him and he goes to the SB we will be some very disappointed Broncos fans. If this team can win with crappy play calling that McCoy has been calling what would happen if we had a good OC and a good QB coach to coach TT to get better with his passing.

[dunk7]

That's one of the things I like about Elway you ask him a question like the answer or not you get to hear what he is thinking. That is a big plus in the FO IMO.

I myself do not see TT as the franchise QB right now. TT has to get better at passing and I think that it would get better if McCoy would call about 30 per game we just have to live with missed passes and int's until he gets his passing down. If TT doesn't get a different QB that can.

I like what TT has and wish he could just be avg passer because that would go a long way with everything else he has to offer. If we get rid of TT and someone spends time with him and develops him then starts him and he goes to the SB we will be some very disappointed Broncos fans. If this team can win with crappy play calling that McCoy has been calling what would happen if we had a good OC and a good QB coach to coach TT to get better with his passing.

How many games do you think we'd win with 30+ pass attempts and a 48% completion percentage?