Is Tebow going to be here in 2012?

[lgenf]

Skip and others on the panel from first take today seemed to think that the combo of elways comments yesterday and the fact that it seems that elway has never seemed to have Tebows back in any single intview he has been asked about Tim, that this is seeming to add up to elway moving away from Tebow EVEN IF he continues to win.


This is interesting, cause if we win and make the playoffs, after going thru what this team went thru over the last three seasons, this recent turn of events seems to be a miraculous turn of events

Chris Mort was just talking about it with Colin Cow also, that elway wants a certain type of QB and is Tebow can't be that, it won't matter if Tebow wins games

[UnderArmour]

It doesn't matter what Elway wants if Tebow keeps winning games. Fox and Bowlen will overrule him.

[G_Money]

Elway wants to win games.

If Tim keeps winning them and looks like he can keep doing it into the foreseeable future, then nobody's gonna have to make Elway do anything, he'll be in Tim's corner already.

~G

[MasterShake]

It doesn't matter what Elway wants if Tebow keeps winning games. Fox and Bowlen will overrule him.

Thats one thing I keep thinking of. The rumors of Bowlen's mental health aside, his comments regarding Tebow were very positive. And Fox really seems to be warming up to him as well.

[NightTerror218]

It doesn't matter what Elway wants if Tebow keeps winning games. Fox and Bowlen will overrule him.

Bowlen wanted this franchise to get back on its feet and back to its former glory and that was one of big reasons of bringing Elway. Franchise seems to be back on its feet again and a contender in the AFC West. But if Elway really thinks he can get a better QB, his career will be on the line with that QB if they move away from TT. If Elway and his new QB do not do as well as TT I could Elway gone.

[Goose23]

Bottom line is how many "W's" fill the column with Tebow taking the snaps. If the Broncos continue to win with Tim, then it will become apparent that the Broncos are a better team with #15 as a starter. If that's the case, then Bowlen, Elway, Fox will be unabashed Tebow boosters. None of the decision-makers want to face a situation where they move in a direction other than Tebow and then the team regresses. That would be catastrophic for the franchise and you would have a massive fan revolt.

[UnderArmour]

Bowlen wanted this franchise to get back on its feet and back to its former glory and that was one of big reasons of bringing Elway. Franchise seems to be back on its feet again and a contender in the AFC West. But if Elway really thinks he can get a better QB, his career will be on the line with that QB if they move away from TT. If Elway and his new QB do not do as well as TT I could Elway gone.

After what happened with Cutler, if Bowlen has ANY doubt that Elway is wrong and that Tebow actually is a franchise quarterback: There is ZERO chance he won't step in and stop it. We can't just let every personnel guy that comes in, whether it be Josh McDaniels or John Elway, toss away what we have to make their own mark. If we finish at 8-8 or better, Tebow will be back and starting next year but we're going to heavily smokescreen for a quarterback in the draft.

[underrated29]

Yes, He will be here next year. 100% no doubt about it. We could lose every game from here on out and he would still be here next year. The guy has played 8 games.

Now if we do lose out he might not win the starting job next year, but tebow is under contract and we are not going to cut him. He will be here next year there is nothing anyone can say to make it untrue.

[MileHighCrew]

Tebow was not Elway's QB. He is going to have to win more games and fair or unfair has a harder hill to climb is he is going to be here.

[NightTerror218]

Tebow was not Elway's QB. He is going to have to win more games and fair or unfair has a harder hill to climb is he is going to be here.

Not with Bowlen support. He has seen QBs come and go. He will have to step in at some point and be like this is our guy....hard to say but pull an Al Davis (RIP).

Edit: That is of course if TT does improve his passing and keeps winning.

[wayninja]

I guess no one remembers starting 6-0 year before last. Where is Orton now? How many games has Tebow played this year again?

Nuff said.

[MileHighCrew]

Not with Bowlen support. He has seen QBs come and go. He will have to step in at some point and be like this is our guy....hard to say but pull an Al Davis (RIP).

Edit: That is of course if TT does improve his passing and keeps winning.

Pat can love a player all he wants, Pat has also proven time after time he will let football people make the football decisions. If Elway is convinced Tebow much go, Pat will support him or Elway will walk away.
It Tebow is gone, Elway pushed for it, if Elway is gone Pat pushed back and if Tebow stays Elway wanted him to be here.

[vandammage13]

All Tim has to do is continue to show improvement, which I believe he will.

If he can continue to win while showing to potential for improvement, things will take care of itself for Tim.

I don't see what all the uproar is about...As long as TT doesn't regress, I'd say its a lock that he remains the starter in 2012.

[NightTerror218]

Pat can love a player all he wants, Pat has also proven time after time he will let football people make the football decisions. If Elway is convinced Tebow much go, Pat will support him or Elway will walk away.
It Tebow is gone, Elway pushed for it, if Elway is gone Pat pushed back and if Tebow stays Elway wanted him to be here.

you can tell Bowlen was at the end of his rope after what has happen to this franchise. He may step in now. Cause he wants this franchise to go up and not stay down or stay a laughing stock.

[NightTerror218]

I guess no one remembers starting 6-0 year before last. Where is Orton now? How many games has Tebow played this year again?

Nuff said.

That was with a defense playing lights out, we were a top 5 defense in those 6 games....


nuff said :rolleyes:

[Northman]

Honestly, i think the plan is too keep Tebow. Give him a full offseason to work on his the things he needs to work on and then go into next season planning on him being the starter. But Denver will draft a QB whether its in the first round or later rounds. They just have to cover themselvs in case Tim doesnt improve.

But, from a personal standpoint im finding that no matter how much of a nice guy Tim is and how much of a competitor he is he is just far too polarizing to this organization. Im really hating the fact that we drafted him and wished he was someone else's problem so if we traded him i actually would be relieved.

[catfish]

I guess no one remembers starting 6-0 year before last. Where is Orton now? How many games has Tebow played this year again?

Nuff said.

I think people remember, they also remember Orton got 2 years of complete garbage football after that before he got sat down

[catfish]

Honestly, i think the plan is too keep Tebow. Give him a full offseason to work on his the things he needs to work on and then go into next season planning on him being the starter. But Denver will draft a QB whether its in the first round or later rounds. They just have to cover themselvs in case Tim doesnt improve.

But, from a personal standpoint im finding that no matter how much of a nice guy Tim is and how much of a competitor he is he is just far too polarizing to this organization. Im really hating the fact that we drafted him and wished he was someone else's problem so if we traded him i actually would be relieved.

I agree the circus is annoying, but there have been several mis-steps by the FO that have thrown gas on the fire. They probably need to just start spitting the company line...there is a reason politicians talk like they do.

[vandammage13]

Honestly, i think the plan is too keep Tebow. Give him a full offseason to work on his the things he needs to work on and then go into next season planning on him being the starter. But Denver will draft a QB whether its in the first round or later rounds. They just have to cover themselvs in case Tim doesnt improve.

Totally agree.


But, from a personal standpoint im finding that no matter how much of a nice guy Tim is and how much of a competitor he is he is just far too polarizing to this organization. Im really hating the fact that we drafted him and wished he was someone else's problem so if we traded him i actually would be relieved.

I'll take the circus as long as we're winning. Tebow might be polarizing in the media and the fanbase, but it doesn't seem like he's polarizing in the locker room. Those guys clearly have his back.

The more TT wins (if he does) the more the polarization will subside, as eventually the critics will have to shut up because they will continue to look ridiculous.

They can only hold on to the "no long-term success" bit for so long before it is no longer a valid argument.

It's actually quite amusing how far the critics have had to back pedal ever since the days leading up to the draft. They can only back off so far until they reach the ledge (which they are dangerously close to), and will have no choice but to concede that TT is a viable QB in the NFL. It went from "He's a 4th round QB," to "He's a 3rd string QB," to "You can't win with TT," to "You can't win long-term with TT." I even remember some saying that TT's running skills wouldn't translate to the NFL. I think his rushing YPA is actually higher in the NFL than it was in the SEC...These guys have been mostly wrong on all accounts other than accuracy.

Their excuses are running out.

...Of course this all hinges on TT continuing his winning ways.

[camdisco24]

The response from this fan base if we cut/traded Tebow...

http://indiana.laxallstars.com/files/2011/04/nuclear-explosion.jpg

[NightTerror218]

The response from this fan base if we cut/traded Tebow...

http://indiana.laxallstars.com/files/2011/04/nuclear-explosion.jpg

if we had had a top 5 pick i would not worry so much, but would prefer the 2 to fight it out over TC. But since we dont I would be pissed.

[MileHighCrew]

I grew up in Calgary in the 80s and I was a young lad in Alberta when the Oilers traded Gretzky. If they could survive that trade, they any team can trade anyone and be ok. Tebow has a huge following and passionate fans but Gretzky was a national icon.

[catfish]

Totally agree.



I'll take the circus as long as we're winning. Tebow might be polarizing in the media and the fanbase, but it doesn't seem like he's polarizing in the locker room. Those guys clearly have his back.

The more TT wins (if he does) the more the polarization will subside, as eventually the critics will have to shut up because they will continue to look ridiculous.

They can only hold on to the "no long-term success" bit for so long before it is no longer a valid argument.

It's actually quite amusing how far the critics have had to back pedal ever since the days leading up to the draft. They can only back off so far until they reach the ledge (which they are dangerously close to), and will have no choice but to concede that TT is a viable QB in the NFL. It went from "He's a 4th round QB," to "He's a 3rd string QB," to "You can't win with TT," to "You can't win long-term with TT."

...Of course this all hinges on TT continuing his winning ways.

don't forget "can't make the playoffs"

I think we are currently at "can't take you to a superbowl"

[wayninja]

I think people remember, they also remember Orton got 2 years of complete garbage football after that before he got sat down

I think folks are missing my point. I'm not trying to say Tebow won't be here, I'm simply saying 6-8 games simply isn't enough time to make that call all other things being equal.


That was with a defense playing lights out, we were a top 5 defense in those 6 games....


nuff said :rolleyes:

What? We weren't a top 5 defense in either scenario.

[OrangeHoof]

If Miami offers a first-rounder for Tebow, I could accept that. Actually, if anybody wants to offer a first-rounder, I'd take it before they changed their mind.

[NightTerror218]

I think folks are missing my point. I'm not trying to say Tebow won't be here, I'm simply saying 6-8 games simply isn't enough time to make that call all other things being equal.



What? We weren't a top 5 defense in either scenario.

IN 2008 IN THE FIRST 6 GAMES, YES WE WERE. We had #1 pass defense and i dont remember the rushing. But we were 6-0. Our defense shut teams down in the 2nd half and did not allow any points until the Chargers game. I had Broncos D/ST on my fantasy league.

[NightTerror218]

If Miami offers a first-rounder for Tebow, I could accept that. Actually, if anybody wants to offer a first-rounder, I'd take it before they changed their mind.

Miami's 1st rounder will be worthy of barkley or Jones. They will not trade that.

[catfish]

I think folks are missing my point. I'm not trying to say Tebow won't be here, I'm simply saying 6-8 games simply isn't enough time to make that call all other things being equal.



What? We weren't a top 5 defense in either scenario.

Don't get me wrong I 100% agree with you. It is all going to depend on the next 6 games...I kinda just wish that is what Elway had said. I also get the feeling that Fox is much higher on Tebow than Elway is. Fox is looking at every pass Elway is looking at 3 and 13 3rd down conversions. I think rubber hits the road they go with Fox's opinion

[BroncoNut]

Honestly, i think the plan is too keep Tebow. Give him a full offseason to work on his the things he needs to work on and then go into next season planning on him being the starter. But Denver will draft a QB whether its in the first round or later rounds. They just have to cover themselvs in case Tim doesnt improve.

But, from a personal standpoint im finding that no matter how much of a nice guy Tim is and how much of a competitor he is he is just far too polarizing to this organization. Im really hating the fact that we drafted him and wished he was someone else's problem so if we traded him i actually would be relieved.

I think the same. We may draft one early. when is Quinners contract up?

[Northman]

I think the same. We may draft one early. when is Quinners contract up?

I think this year.

[BroncoNut]

The response from this fan base if we cut/traded Tebow...

http://indiana.laxallstars.com/files/2011/04/nuclear-explosion.jpg

lol at this for some reason

I'm starting to wonder if this tebow thinghas some end of the world/armagedon type stuff attached with it. It's really pretty crazy right now. if he wins the superbowl this year, I think we are not only in end times, but at it. Like I think the world will end a week later or something. the heavens will open up and Jesus will come.

[claymore]

Skip and others on the panel from first take today seemed to think that the combo of elways comments yesterday and the fact that it seems that elway has never seemed to have Tebows back in any single intview he has been asked about Tim, that this is seeming to add up to elway moving away from Tebow EVEN IF he continues to win.


This is interesting, cause if we win and make the playoffs, after going thru what this team went thru over the last three seasons, this recent turn of events seems to be a miraculous turn of events

Chris Mort was just talking about it with Colin Cow also, that elway wants a certain type of QB and is Tebow can't be that, it won't matter if Tebow wins games

Bros before hoes. I ride with Elway.

[BroncoNut]

Bros before hoes. I ride with Elway.

don't talk to Lgenf Clay. Step off

[claymore]

If Miami offers a first-rounder for Tebow, I could accept that. Actually, if anybody wants to offer a first-rounder, I'd take it before they changed their mind.

I wonder if Tebows trade value is diminished because the gaining organization inherits Tebows fans?

[Northman]

Bros before hoes. I ride with Elway.

Lmao, that shit was funny.

[wayninja]

IN 2008 IN THE FIRST 6 GAMES, YES WE WERE.

Oh? So we can be that selective? How has are defense been in the 5 games with Tebow?

[NightTerror218]

Oh? So we can be that selective? How has are defense been in the 5 games with Tebow?

you brought up the 6 games with Orton as a starter and i stated we had a TOP 5 DEFENSE. You want to dodge stuff when proven wrong go ahead, but I will tell you that YOU WERE WRONG!

Be selective all you want but doesn't change anything. The defense with Tebow/Orton in 2011 season have mid middle of the road ranging between 15-19.

[BroncoNut]

Oh? So we can be that selective? How has are defense been in the 5 games with Tebow?

"Our" defense Wayninja. OUR

[wayninja]

you brought up the 6 games with Orton as a starter and i stated we had a TOP 5 DEFENSE. You want to dodge stuff when proven wrong go ahead, but I will tell you that YOU WERE WRONG!

Be selective all you want but doesn't change anything. The defense with Tebow/Orton in 2011 season have mid middle of the road ranging between 15-19.

That's fine, I'm wrong. But that also means your boy Tebow isn't so hot either, since the D has really stepped up for him. You can't have it both ways.


"Our" defense Wayninja. OUR

Uh...yeah... was just doing a pirate imitation....

[NightTerror218]

That's fine, I'm wrong. But that also means your boy Tebow isn't so hot either, since the D has really stepped up for him. You can't have it both ways.



Uh...yeah... was just doing a pirate imitation....

My boi? I much rather have Luck, Barkley, Jones then TT. But since he is winning I will be happy. TT is not hot, but he does not have a TOP 5 DEFENSE EITHER. No doubt the defense is what has kept us in the games.

In last 5 game we are approx 19th in points against us, and 14th in passing/rushing. So we are in the mid teens as a defense.

[vandammage13]

My boi? I much rather have Luck, Barkley, Jones then TT. But since he is winning I will be happy. TT is not hot, but he does not have a TOP 5 DEFENSE EITHER. No doubt the defense is what has kept us in the games.

In last 5 game we are approx 19th in points against us, and 14th in passing/rushing. So we are in the mid teens as a defense.

Not turning the ball over will help your defense out immensly, which is something Orton was not doing in the first 5 games this year.

To me, that has been TT's biggest contribution thus far, and that is precisely why it is Tebow, not Orton, that gives us the best chance to win.

It's just a shame it took us 5 games to figure that out or we might be significantly better than 5-5 right now.

[rcsodak]

Don't get me wrong I 100% agree with you. It is all going to depend on the next 6 games...I kinda just wish that is what Elway had said. I also get the feeling that Fox is much higher on Tebow than Elway is. Fox is looking at every pass Elway is looking at 3 and 13 3rd down conversions. I think rubber hits the road they go with Fox's opinion

Fox is BENEATH Elway in the company hierarchy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[catfish]

Fox is BENEATH Elway in the company hierarchy.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

but if he is smart he will let the coach come up with the gameplan and best use his personel

[wayninja]

My boi? I much rather have Luck, Barkley, Jones then TT. But since he is winning I will be happy. TT is not hot, but he does not have a TOP 5 DEFENSE EITHER. No doubt the defense is what has kept us in the games.

In last 5 game we are approx 19th in points against us, and 14th in passing/rushing. So we are in the mid teens as a defense.

Take out the Detroit game since we should only include games won to be fair and what kind of D are we looking at?

All this is really coming down to is that Tebow nor Orton can win without the D playing really, really well.

[NightTerror218]

Not turning the ball over will help your defense out immensly, which is something Orton was not doing in the first 5 games this year.

To me, that has been TT's biggest contribution thus far, and that is precisely why it is Tebow, not Orton, that gives us the best chance to win.

It's just a shame it took us 5 games to figure that out or we might be significantly better than 5-5 right now.


Question for you. Would you rather have a QB with 2.1 TDs per game ratio with 1.7 TO overs per game and 280+ pass yards and 40 rushing per game.

Or a QB with 2.0 TDs per game, 0.4 TO per game, 75 rushing yards per game, 125 passing yards per game.

[OrangeHoof]

I wonder if Tebows trade value is diminished because the gaining organization inherits Tebows fans?

Not if they buy tickets. I still think Jacksonville made a big mistake not taking him because he could double their attendance but I think they thought they could grab him in the second round and McDouche beat them to the punch.

[NightTerror218]

Take out the Detroit game since we should only include games won to be fair and what kind of D are we looking at?

Why pick and choice games, when i am comparing a 6-0 stretch with Orton to the 5 games Tebow has started? Of course when we win the D looks better. Why pad the stats?

But to amuse you that would bump us to lower teens. But however 2nd in scoring. 10th in rushing D and 12th in passing D.

[wayninja]

Why pick and choice games, when i am comparing a 6-0 stretch with Orton to the 5 games Tebow has started? Of course when we win the D looks better. Why pad the stats?

But to amuse you that would bump us to lower teens. But however 2nd in scoring. 10th in rushing D and 12th in passing D.

Hey, that suddenly looks like a pretty good defense. But you are using the same tactic, cherry picking the parts of the season that support your argument.

I don't need stats to tell me that without our defense, we would not be 4-1 with Tebow. Tebow deserves credit for what he does in crunch time, but crunch time becomes garbage time without our D keeping opposing teams to low scores.

[NightTerror218]

Hey, that suddenly looks like a pretty good defense. But you are using the same tactic, cherry picking the parts of the season that support your argument.

I don't need stats to tell me that without our defense, we would not be 4-1 with Tebow. Tebow deserves credit for what he does in crunch time, but crunch time becomes garbage time without our D keeping opposing teams to low scores.

I "cherry picked" the stretches you gave me when comparing Ortons hot 6-0 start to Tebows 5 game start. 1 had a Top 5 defense 1 had a Top 15 defense.

[BroncoTech]

I think folks are missing my point. I'm not trying to say Tebow won't be here, I'm simply saying 6-8 games simply isn't enough time to make that call all other things being equal.

But it is consistent with what we saw from Tebow last year, and what we saw from him in college. Taking the evidence in total you can say Tebow will probably end his career with a winning record in the NFL.

Orton on the other hand, since you mention the 6 wins in a row, never showed the ability to do that before. Not in college or with the Bears. So when you look at the total evidence with Orton he might be a winning quarterback on the right team as well, and end his career with a winning record, but the 6 game win streak was a fluke.

[wayninja]

I "cherry picked" the stretches you gave me when comparing Ortons hot 6-0 start to Tebows 5 game start. 1 had a Top 5 defense 1 had a Top 15 defense.

Not when it comes to the most important stat. Points allowed. They were ranked 2nd according to your when comparing Tebows 4 wins. Cherry picking is cherry picking.

[wayninja]

But it is consistent with what we saw from Tebow last year, and what we saw from him in college. Taking the evidence in total you can say Tebow will probably end his career with a winning record in the NFL.

I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion. Tebow had far better passing numbers in College and I'm not yet convinced that Tebows career, regardless of winning percentage, won't be really short.


Orton on the other hand, since you mention the 6 wins in a row, never showed the ability to do that before. Not in college or with the Bears. So when you look at the total evidence with Orton he might be a winning quarterback on the right team as well, and end his career with a winning record, but the 6 game win streak was a fluke.

The right team is everything. Or at least it's far more important than any single player. Not sure what that means. I don't give a rats ass about Orton, but so far our win streak has 'fluke' written all over it. I won't be happy with it until it's backed up by a potent offense. We don't have to be a high flying attack like the Pats or anything, but 3 and outs are killing our ability to play ball control. As much as we run, we should be doing much better with TOP than we are now.

[vettesplus]

NO!!!!

[Thestrategist1]

Bottom line is how many "W's" fill the column with Tebow taking the snaps. If the Broncos continue to win with Tim, then it will become apparent that the Broncos are a better team with #15 as a starter. If that's the case, then Bowlen, Elway, Fox will be unabashed Tebow boosters. None of the decision-makers want to face a situation where they move in a direction other than Tebow and then the team regresses. That would be catastrophic for the franchise and you would have a massive fan revolt.

Absolutely I already go my Torch and Pitchfork, Ready to go, all EFX has to do is say the word and in 10minutes I will be at the Broncos training facility ready to give them my thoughts. There is NO way Im gonna hang on another 13years to feel like this again!!!!