Elway Not Sold on Tebow

[Ziggy]

Tebowmania has taken over the greater Denver area, just not the Broncos front office.

Broncos executive vice president of football operations John Elway continues to be lukewarm about Tim Tebow’s future as the starting quarterback of the Broncos.

Gary Miller asked Elway the following question on his weekly radio show on 102.3 FM, via the Denver Post.

“Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/21/elway-broncos-are-no-closer-to-finding-quarterback-of-future/

This should be interesting......

[NightTerror218]

Tebowmania has taken over the greater Denver area, just not the Broncos front office.

Broncos executive vice president of football operations John Elway continues to be lukewarm about Tim Tebow’s future as the starting quarterback of the Broncos.

Gary Miller asked Elway the following question on his weekly radio show on 102.3 FM, via the Denver Post.

“Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/21/elway-broncos-are-no-closer-to-finding-quarterback-of-future/

This should be interesting......

Yet Elway said he is going to be working with TT over the summer. And are you sure he flat out said no? Doesn't sound like something Elway would say. I could see him saying we are still evaluating and looking.

[jhildebrand]

Why would Elway answer anything but? :confused:

If he truly feels Tebow is the QBOTF then don't disclose and if you don't feel that way you still don't disclose. It is the safest way to handle it.

Also, I don't want the FO buying into Tebowmania. I want them to be objective and build the team. Leave Tebowmania to the fans!

[GEM]

And Elway was being honest. He said that Tim NEEDS to improve on the 3rd down conversions. He can't go 9 3 and outs in the middle of a game. He also said he has not seen a drastic improvement. These are all true statements that any front office would say. He's not pulling Tim because of it, if he can't improve by the end of the season, it may force a change.

I can't fault the front office for that. I would hope they give Tim the rest of the season and in that time, there is someone working with Tim on the things that aren't working. I would love for it to work out, but I don't live in this bubble that imagines that no matter what not scoring for 3 out of 4 quarters against upper echelon teams is a winning strategy.

We can't say we want transparency and then get upset when we get it. I'd rather know the truth of how they are feeling instead of being lied to. :shrugs:

[GEM]

Yet Elway said he is going to be working with TT over the summer. And are you sure he flat out said no? Doesn't sound like something Elway would say. I could see him saying we are still evaluating and looking.

He did say No. There was a short pause and an emphatic no. I listened to the interview in my car on my drive down to the Tech Center this morning.

[Nomad]

Tned had a good thread about other first/second yr QB struggles. I understand Tebow is behind the curb as far as passing but has Elway ever came out and stated his expectations of 'his' ideal QB.

I'm not questioning John just wondering if he ever came out with what he expects. If his expectations is Peyton Manning/Aaron Rodgers then I can see why he doesn't have alot of confidence in Tebow. But it seems all QBs have to have time to grow and get the right pieces around them.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I still think they need to draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round and let them battle it out in the off-season and pre-season. Hopefully they do a better job than they did in their evaluation of Tebow and Orton.

BTW Elway, "Do you think we have a legit GM in this organization........No."

[Ziggy]

Tned had a good thread about other first/second yr QB struggles. I understand Tebow is behind the curb as far as passing but has Elway ever came out and stated his expectations of 'his' ideal QB.

I'm not questioning John just wondering if he ever came out with what he expects. If his expectations is Peyton Manning/Aaron Rodgers then I can see why he doesn't have alot of confidence in Tebow. But it seems all QBs have to have time to grow and get the right pieces around them.

He's been asked before in interviews. What he has said is that an NFL QB has to be able to pass out of the pocket, convert third downs, and hit open receivers.

[Northman]

I have no problem with Elway saying that. We still havent seen if Tim can win a game passing through the air. While what we are doing so far is working it wont work for the longterm so the question of whether or not Tim can be an all around QB is still in question.

[Slick]

Elway needs to be firm and not be gushing about a QB who we all know needs to get a lot better.

I wouldn't read too much into this.

[Nomad]

He's been asked before in interviews. What he has said is that an NFL QB has to be able to pass out of the pocket, convert third downs, and hit open receivers.

That's understandable!

[BigDaddyBronco]

After watching RGIII again this weekend. I would love to have that kid. He can play in the same offense we use for Tebow, but appears to be a better passer. He might still be around in the middle of the 1st round.

[Nomad]

After watching RGIII again this weekend. I would love to have that kid. He can play in the same offense we use for Tebow, but appears to be a better passer. He might still be around in the middle of the 1st round.

RGIII was quite impressive.

[Nomad]

You think RGIII would fit quite well in a Shanahan offense

[NightTerror218]

I didn't go back and watch game, but we had a lot of 3rd and long, dropped passes and and some passes not quite making it to the 1st down marker.

I think the offense in general needs some work. You can tell they were missing a healthy McGahee. The offense is all over the place for what they want to run like I have stated before. McCoy/Fox need to figure out what they want as their "base offense". I mean running option/spread/power running/ and pro style offenses and not picking one and sticking with it does not help the offense. Oak and KC games the option worked well. Against Jets it was power run/pro-style and some spread with a couple option plays (TT confirmed during interview that the option was only ran a few times) and 2 of them were in the last drive.

Thursday game had the basically the same offense as against Miami and Detroit, which did not have huge results.

[GEM]

I didn't go back and watch game, but we had a lot of 3rd and long, dropped passes and and some passes not quite making it to the 1st down marker.

I think the offense in general needs some work. You can tell they were missing a healthy McGahee. The offense is all over the place for what they want to run like I have stated before. McCoy/Fox need to figure out what they want as their "base offense". I mean running option/spread/power running/ and pro style offenses and not picking one and sticking with it does not help the offense. Oak and KC games the option worked well. Against Jets it was power run/pro-style and some spread with a couple option plays (TT confirmed during interview that the option was only ran a few times) and 2 of them were in the last drive.

Thursday game had the basically the same offense as against Miami and Detroit, which did not have huge results.

There really isn't a need to protect Tebow here. I think almost everyone can agree that there needs to be improvement. I think everyone does Tebow a disservice by making excuses for it, when he himself doesn't make excuses. In the long run, no matter what offense is ran, he needs to become a better passer. It just is what it is. And the sooner he can make some corrections, the sooner he will prove to Elway that he is the future of this franchise. If he doesn't, the Broncos move on.

[BigDaddyBronco]

You think RGIII would fit quite well in a Shanahan offense

He might. There will probably be 4 or 5 teams drafting in front of us that need a QB.

SF - Luck
KC - ?
Miami - ?
Washington - ?
Cleveland - ?
Arizona - ?

Minnesota, St. Louis, Jacksonville and Tennessee will probably keep their QB's. Seattle and Buffalo will be drafting in the same range as Denver.

[Nomad]

There really isn't a need to protect Tebow here. I think almost everyone can agree that there needs to be improvement. I think everyone does Tebow a disservice by making excuses for it, when he himself doesn't make excuses. In the long run, no matter what offense is ran, he needs to become a better passer. It just is what it is. And the sooner he can make some corrections, the sooner he will prove to Elway that he is the future of this franchise. If he doesn't, the Broncos move on.

Now he's on a 6 game leash:lol:. And SD's secondary really isn't all that good. I hope he capitalizes and McCoy gives him the plays to do so.

[Nomad]

He might. There will probably be 4 or 5 teams drafting in front of us that need a QB.

SF - Luck
KC - ?
Miami - ?
Washington - ?
Cleveland - ?
Arizona - ?

Minnesota, St. Louis, Jacksonville and Tennessee will probably keep their QB's. Seattle and Buffalo will be drafting in the same range as Denver.

So SF sells the farm to Indy for Luck?!?:confused:

[BigDaddyBronco]

So SF sells the farm to Indy for Luck?!?:confused:

LOL. Brain Fart.

Ind - Luck

[jhildebrand]

Saying TT needs to improve. But going with a gameplan where he has only thrown 8 passes by the 3rd quarter are two different things.

I think the more chaos and confusion, the better!

[DenBronx]

Elway answered honestly. TTs 3rd down % is horrid and he needs to improve to be a more complete QB.

Even TT would agree with that. One things for sure, the kid is his best when his backs against the wall.

[NightTerror218]

There really isn't a need to protect Tebow here. I think almost everyone can agree that there needs to be improvement. I think everyone does Tebow a disservice by making excuses for it, when he himself doesn't make excuses. In the long run, no matter what offense is ran, he needs to become a better passer. It just is what it is. And the sooner he can make some corrections, the sooner he will prove to Elway that he is the future of this franchise. If he doesn't, the Broncos move on.

How does it do him a disservice when i say it is more of a team thing then just him?

[Dapper Dan]

Maybe Tebow isn't sold on this Elway kid either. Oh Snap.

[GEM]

How does it do him a disservice when i say it is more of a team thing then just him?

Can you admit that Tebow needs to improve drastically to be considered an NFL qb?

Because Tebow fans always point out out the big picture. In order to have a big picture there are small pieces. Tebow is actually a huge piece and right now he's not up to par. Maybe it's Tebow that is the problem with the dropped passes. Decker never had that issue with Orton. Coincidence? Broncos never threw the ball only 8 times in a game until Tebow. Coincidence? These aren't all coincidences. These are things that Tebow needs to improve upon. So making the excuse that it's the whole team when in fact it all starts with Tebow is pretty much a moot point.

[Mike]

Does anyone have a breakdown of how many third downs we passed on, how many of those were missed because of bad passes, and what was the yardage needed to convert?

[Nomad]

How does it do him a disservice when i say it is more of a team thing then just him?

JMO...I would like to see the receivers practice more of catching with their hands than trying to body catch. Granted Tebow has accuracy issues using the hands will improve the completion percentage especially when having to make circus catches.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here is Part 1 and 2 from this morning:

http://www.denverssportsstation.com/page/The_John_Elway_Show/59

[MasterShake]

Gotta go with John on this. When the game is on the line, there is only one dude I want leading on the field for the Broncos right now. Picking up a 3rd and long in the first half? Not so much.

There were several instances we started with great field position against the Jets and just stalled. The good news is that Tebow has the skills you can't teach and what he does lack can be helped by experience and a full offseason.

We just need him to be an average threat to throw and we could really have something here. I would love to see that because I am beginning to like Tebow not only as a Bronco, but as a person with how he is conducting himself. If he's not showing improvement after a full offseason and training camp next year, then we look more towards the future. Personally, as a fan I like to think we have something special going on here that could revolutionize the game as players like Vick and now Cam Newton are starting to hint at.

If Tebow can get up to snuff as a passer on a workable level, that would be like going into war with tank that turns into a fighter jet and shoots lasers and can also transform into a robot with lightsabers. How cool is that? Not only that, after this super war machine kills everyone, it will get down on one knee and pray with them.

[BORDERLINE]

Elway obviously wants a guy at QB who he selected and plays the way HE wants him to play.

I said it before there will be more questions than answers if we keep running this offense and don't see Tebow air it out.

I believe HE can throw, last year he did well throwing the ball I don't know what changed but this year he just flat out can't throw unless he is in the 4th Quarter.

I'll take the wins don't get me wrong, Happy as most of you that we are finally getting them but sooner or later there will be a stretch where we won't do good and I believe that EFX will simply say Tebow isn't OUR guy and will bench him. I hope that's not the case I love the passion Tebow brings but he also brings uncertainty with the most important position on the field.

I think most of us want to win with Tebow. I just believe EFX wants to win with their GUY.

[NightTerror218]

Can you admit that Tebow needs to improve drastically to be considered an NFL qb?

Because Tebow fans always point out out the big picture. In order to have a big picture there are small pieces. Tebow is actually a huge piece and right now he's not up to par. Maybe it's Tebow that is the problem with the dropped passes. Decker never had that issue with Orton. Coincidence? Broncos never threw the ball only 8 times in a game until Tebow. Coincidence? These aren't all coincidences. These are things that Tebow needs to improve upon. So making the excuse that it's the whole team when in fact it all starts with Tebow is pretty much a moot point.

I was a Bronco Fan before this kid was born, so don't try to throw me into the Tebow fan category. I am point out that it is the offense as a whole. I know that TT needs work and I have stated it over before. He needs to improve his accuracy and his timing. He needs to read defenses better.

You may say he is not up to par but he is helping us win games. 4-1 in last 5 games, um ya screw mechanics just improve accuracy.

you want to start getting into coincidences, Orton 35+ passes a game 1-4, TT 8-15 passes per game 4-1 and rushing is up 50-100 yrds per game.

Your love for Decker makes it so he does not wrong. He has had several dropped passes right off his hands, damn near hit on the numbers. He jumped off the line last week and gave us a 3rd and long situation? He never jumped off the line with Orton?!?!? Royal has dropped several passes too.

I dont know how that is a moot point??:rolleyes:

[GEM]

Gotta go with John on this. When the game is on the line, there is only one dude I want leading on the field for the Broncos right now. Picking up a 3rd and long in the first half? Not so much.

There were several instances we started with great field position against the Jets and just stalled. The good news is that Tebow has the skills you can't teach and what he does lack can be helped by experience and a full offseason.

We just need him to be an average threat to throw and we could really have something here. I would love to see that because I am beginning to like Tebow not only as a Bronco, but as a person with how he is conducting himself. If he's not showing improvement after a full offseason and training camp next year, then we look more towards the future. Personally, as a fan I like to think we have something special going on here that could revolutionize the game as players like Vick and now Cam Newton are starting to hint at.

If Tebow can get up to snuff as a passer on a workable level, that would be like going into war with tank that turns into a fighter jet and shoots lasers and can also transform into a robot with lightsabers. How cool is that? Not only that, after this super war machine kills everyone, it will get down on one knee and pray with them.

5 drives started in Jet territory....result 3 points.

[G_Money]

Tebow still has plenty of time to play himself out of a starting role. If we go 0-6 to the finish and Tim is a big part of that...

Then John is gonna look stupid giving him the dreaded "vote of confidence."

Just let Tim play and improve, that's all I ask. I thought his chances of being our QB in 2012 were quite low just a couple of weeks ago, so he's hauled them up a long way already IMO.

Tebow loves it when time's running out. He'll probably have his best games at the end, especially closing with KC at home, and will have plenty of chances yet to make a statement that he CAN learn and throw and convert 3rd downs before the 4th quarter.

And if he can't, then Elway wanting to go in another direction is a perfectly valid response.

I'm pulling for Tim, no question - but the issue of our QBOTF shouldn't be counted as solved now any more than Tim was spit-roasted with no chance after the Detroit game.

It'll play out on the field - Tim should have bought himself at least that much time, and for that I'm grateful.

~G

[Ziggy]

Tebow will have 6 more games to sell Elway on the fact that he can become a QB that you can build around. If Elway sees something there, he'll probably take Tebow completely under his wing in the offseason and mentor him. If he doesn't, I'm guessing that Elway puts in some work with him, but doesn't go all in.

More than likely, 4 QB's will go in the first 10-15 picks. Luck, Barkley, Jones, and Griffin. That's if they all come out. If 1 or 2 stay in school, the others will be gone by around pick 5.

[G_Money]

If Tebow can get up to snuff as a passer on a workable level, that would be like going into war with tank that turns into a fighter jet and shoots lasers and can also transform into a robot with lightsabers. How cool is that? Not only that, after this super war machine kills everyone, it will get down on one knee and pray with them.

:lol: This is my fondest hope.

~G

[MasterShake]

:lol: This is my fondest hope.

~G

I don't meant to set the bar so low, I apologize! :lol:

[Nomad]

Elway obviously wants a guy at QB who he selected and plays the way HE wants him to play.

I said it before there will be more questions than answers if we keep running this offense and don't see Tebow air it out.

I believe HE can throw, last year he did well throwing the ball I don't know what changed but this year he just flat out can't throw unless he is in the 4th Quarter.

I'll take the wins don't get me wrong, Happy as most of you that we are finally getting them but sooner or later there will be a stretch where we won't do good and I believe that EFX will simply say Tebow isn't OUR guy and will bench him. I hope that's not the case I love the passion Tebow brings but he also brings uncertainty with the most important position on the field.

I think most of us want to win with Tebow. I just believe EFX wants to win with their GUY.

I agree with what you and MS just said. So what's holding Tebow back.....himself or the playcalling?!? You think the plays are called and Tebow audibles or just doesn't execute or McCoy limits his throw. Yeah, I've watched all the games but if a FO/HC has expectations, they need to make sure he has numerous chances win or lose. This is the only way we'll find out if Tebow can grow into a passer with more trys.

[Ziggy]

If Tebow can get up to snuff as a passer on a workable level, that would be like going into war with tank that turns into a fighter jet and shoots lasers and can also transform into a robot with lightsabers. How cool is that? Not only that, after this super war machine kills everyone, it will get down on one knee and pray with them.

OK, this has to be the line of the year so far.

[GEM]

I was a Bronco Fan before this kid was born, so don't try to throw me into the Tebow fan category. I am point out that it is the offense as a whole. I know that TT needs work and I have stated it over before. He needs to improve his accuracy and his timing. He needs to read defenses better.

You may say he is not up to par but he is helping us win games. 4-1 in last 5 games, um ya screw mechanics just improve accuracy.

you want to start getting into coincidences, Orton 35+ passes a game 1-4, TT 8-15 passes per game 4-1 and rushing is up 50-100 yrds per game.

Your love for Decker makes it so he does not wrong. He has had several dropped passes right off his hands, damn near hit on the numbers. He jumped off the line last week and gave us a 3rd and long situation? He never jumped off the line with Orton?!?!? Royal has dropped several passes too.

I dont know how that is a moot point??:rolleyes:

Royal has dropped passes since last season.

Did I just say Decker? You brought up Decker. Let's not get this confused....I love Decker cause he's hot. :lol: I never said I consider him to be a great WR. ;) I think he could be very good.....right now it would need to be on another team though. 8 attempts in a game and any smart WR would request a trade. What we will end up with is a WR ghost town. They will stay the amount of time their initial contract requires and they will move on because there is no money to be made with Tebow throwing you the ball. And that's just the God's honest truth right there. The guys that will stick around....guys that can't make other teams rosters who are happy with league minimum.

Should some of the dropped balls been caught? Sure. That isn't the argument here. The argument is Is Tim Tebow the Future in Denver? According to John Elway, as of today, no. Was dropped balls brought up? No. Was accuracy, footwork, 3rd downs, and the ability to throw the ball. Yes. Tim Tebow needs to improve to become the future in Denver. Decker doesn't need to catch a ball to make Tebow the future in Denver. Not when there are so many other glaring issues with Tebow himself.

Is there something that says Tebow fans can't also be Broncos fans? I didn't say Teboners or crazed Tebow fans. Every time there has been a Tebow criticism, you make a post of excuses. There really is no excuse. He needs to improve. He improves and everyone shuts up about the problems with Tebow.

[rcsodak]

I didn't go back and watch game, but we had a lot of 3rd and long, dropped passes and and some passes not quite making it to the 1st down marker.

I think the offense in general needs some work. You can tell they were missing a healthy McGahee. The offense is all over the place for what they want to run like I have stated before. McCoy/Fox need to figure out what they want as their "base offense". I mean running option/spread/power running/ and pro style offenses and not picking one and sticking with it does not help the offense. Oak and KC games the option worked well. Against Jets it was power run/pro-style and some spread with a couple option plays (TT confirmed during interview that the option was only ran a few times) and 2 of them were in the last drive.

Thursday game had the basically the same offense as against Miami and Detroit, which did not have huge results.
Pretty obvious they wanted to try winning with a legit offense. When that didnt work, they ran the TT offense to hopefully catch them offguard.

Lull 'em to sleep then hit 'em in the nose.

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[rcsodak]

He might. There will probably be 4 or 5 teams drafting in front of us that need a QB.

SF - Luck
KC - ?
Miami - ?
Washington - ?
Cleveland - ?
Arizona - ?

Minnesota, St. Louis, Jacksonville and Tennessee will probably keep their QB's. Seattle and Buffalo will be drafting in the same range as Denver.
Did you skip the only winless team on poipose?

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[NightTerror218]

Royal has dropped passes since last season.

Did I just say Decker? You brought up Decker. Let's not get this confused....I love Decker cause he's hot. :lol: I never said I consider him to be a great WR. ;) I think he could be very good.....right now it would need to be on another team though. 8 attempts in a game and any smart WR would request a trade. What we will end up with is a WR ghost town. They will stay the amount of time their initial contract requires and they will move on because there is no money to be made with Tebow throwing you the ball. And that's just the God's honest truth right there. The guys that will stick around....guys that can't make other teams rosters who are happy with league minimum.

Should some of the dropped balls been caught? Sure. That isn't the argument here. The argument is Is Tim Tebow the Future in Denver? According to John Elway, as of today, no. Was dropped balls brought up? No. Was accuracy, footwork, 3rd downs, and the ability to throw the ball. Yes. Tim Tebow needs to improve to become the future in Denver. Decker doesn't need to catch a ball to make Tebow the future in Denver. Not when there are so many other glaring issues with Tebow himself.

Is there something that says Tebow fans can't also be Broncos fans? I didn't say Teboners or crazed Tebow fans. Every time there has been a Tebow criticism, you make a post of excuses. There really is no excuse. He needs to improve. He improves and everyone shuts up about the problems with Tebow.

I rather call it facts that we have dropped passes and several of them are on 3rd downs, hence dropping 3rd down conversions. As for excuses I think our team needs several pieces and our offense is rather young and make lots of mistakes. If TT is not able to make those short to mid range throws or unable to fix his accuracy then he needs to go. But to say its all it him is naive.

Post of excuses, rather see holes that need to be fixed rather then making a scape goat like the blind/naive do.

[rcsodak]

5 drives started in Jet territory....result 3 points.
YES!
EXACTLY!

That game shouldve been over by the 2nd qtr!

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[MasterShake]

OK, this has to be the line of the year so far.

Here is an artists intepretation with me there for scale.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/tebowformer.jpg

I could see that hoisting a Lombardi Trophy, couldn't you?

[catfish]

Does anyone have a breakdown of how many third downs we passed on, how many of those were missed because of bad passes, and what was the yardage needed to convert?

1st drive
3&5 mcgahee run for 6
2&9 passed deep, missed
3&9 passed complete for 8 yds

2nd drive
2-6 pass incomplete
3-6 run called, short

3rd drive

fumble

4th drive
3-11 pass

5th drive

3-10 pass

6th drive

3-6 pass complete for 5

7th drive

1- 10 incomplete
3-7 pass incomplete

8th drive
2nd 10 pass inc
3-10 pas inc

9th drive
2-11 inc
3-11 inc

10th drive
3-7 inc

11th drive
3-2 ball run short

12th drive
3-1 run converted
3-4 run for td

I added plays in the same series where it could be said Tebow contributed to the down and distance with missed passes. Below are the % completion by down and distance

Second-and-1-5 yards 56
Second-and-6-9 yards 27
Second-and-10-plus 17
Third-and-1 67
Third-and-2 52
Third-and-3 49
Third-and-4 47
Third-and-5 42
Third-and-6 41
Third-and-7 37
Third-and-8 32
Third-and-9 32
Third-and-10 or more 20

[wayninja]

Here is an artists intepretation with me there for scale.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u14/Kenobi1_bucket/tebowformer.jpg

I could see that hoisting a Lombardi Trophy, couldn't you?

Darth Voltronebow!

Having the disembodied shake for reference really DOES help with the scale!

[GEM]

I rather call it facts that we have dropped passes and several of them are on 3rd downs, hence dropping 3rd down conversions. As for excuses I think our team needs several pieces and our offense is rather young and make lots of mistakes. If TT is not able to make those short to mid range throws or unable to fix his accuracy then he needs to go. But to say its all it him is naive.

Post of excuses, rather see holes that need to be fixed rather then making a scape goat like the blind/naive do.

I didn't say it was all Tebow either. The topic of the thread is Tebow and the problems I eluded to were issues with Tebow. Does the rest of the offense have issues, of course.

I am neither blind, nor naive.

[catfish]

I rather call it facts that we have dropped passes and several of them are on 3rd downs, hence dropping 3rd down conversions. As for excuses I think our team needs several pieces and our offense is rather young and make lots of mistakes. If TT is not able to make those short to mid range throws or unable to fix his accuracy then he needs to go. But to say its all it him is naive.

Post of excuses, rather see holes that need to be fixed rather then making a scape goat like the blind/naive do.

I think the third down problems were a team problem Tebow wasn't throwing perfect strikes and had some that were downright bad, the receivers had some catch-able balls that they didn't catch, the O-line got blown up all game, the running backs were averaging 2.1 yds per carry in a run first offense. The playcalling didn't feel like it had any rhythm and was a bit predictable.It all came together to add up to many 3rd and long situations. Luckily the defense stepped up and the team was able to pull it out when it mattered pinning it all on one guy is a little bit silly, just as saying the team won any of the games it won solely because of Tebow is equally silly

As for Elway, of course I wish they would give a firm commitment for the rest of the year, but they need to see if he keeps improving for the rest of this year and see how he does working on his mechanics in the offseason before they say he is the QB of the future. The offense isn't going to work well unless some better rhythm is established, having said that I kinda wish he would stay off the radio and stop giving the talking heads so much fodder to rehash every damn week

[TT15Superman]

Said it before, say it again... HO HUM.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313752

:coffee:

We all know who is "clueless" now. Just sayin'.

[GEM]

Said it before, say it again... HO HUM.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313752

:coffee:

And Elway said again....If Tebow doesn't improve, he's not the future of this team.


Who is Bowlen going to listen to.....the guy who took his team to 5 SB's and won 2, or the guy who has won 4 regular season games?


:lol:

[slim]

I guess it's a good thing a final decision doesn't have to be made today :noidea:

[NightTerror218]

I think the third down problems were a team problem Tebow wasn't throwing perfect strikes and had some that were downright bad, the receivers had some catch-able balls that they didn't catch, the O-line got blown up all game, the running backs were averaging 2.1 yds per carry in a run first offense. The playcalling didn't feel like it had any rhythm and was a bit predictable.It all came together to add up to many 3rd and long situations. Luckily the defense stepped up and the team was able to pull it out when it mattered pinning it all on one guy is a little bit silly, just as saying the team won any of the games it won solely because of Tebow is equally silly

As for Elway, of course I wish they would give a firm commitment for the rest of the year, but they need to see if he keeps improving for the rest of this year and see how he does working on his mechanics in the offseason before they say he is the QB of the future. The offense isn't going to work well unless some better rhythm is established, having said that I kinda wish he would stay off the radio and stop giving the talking heads so much fodder to rehash every damn week

WR routes were also issues, they were not going to 1st down markers and would stop short of it. The three vets on offense are Clady, Kuper and McGahee the rest are in their 3rd season or younger. Royal, Ball-3rd season, Decker, DT, Walton, beadles, TT and moreno are 2nd years. Franklin rookie.

I think for Elway he is always looking for a way to improve the team and will not commit to anything and Fox just wants to win. Fox sounded like he is full on board with TT now.

That line you said is key. What i have been seeing.

[NightTerror218]

And Elway said again....If Tebow doesn't improve, he's not the future of this team.


Who is Bowlen going to listen to.....the guy who took his team to 5 SB's and won 2, or the guy who has won 4 regular season games?


:lol:

I would not put the 2 against each other. 1 is executive the other is a player that is selling ticket/jersey/memorabilia, winning games and bringing interest back to this team.

It Bowlen had to choose between the two he would no be in a happy spot.

[Nomad]

I guess it's a good thing a final decision doesn't have to be made today :noidea:

According to what John is looking for, would you have Tebow play more in the pocket and more pass attempts in these last 6 games. I understand wins are more important and it seems the current offensive scheme built around Tebow has brought us wins, but I'm not sure how one can truly evaluate with limited passing attempts. With SD having a not-so-good secondary I'd like to see Tebow with at least 25 attempts.

[Northman]

Said it before, say it again... HO HUM.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313752

:coffee:

We all know who is "clueless" now. Just sayin'.

Yes, you are.

You kept trying to claim he didnt care about the win when people posted evidence contrary to your statment. The fact that Elway still needs to see more from him as a QB has little to do with him being excited about a Broncos win. Learn the difference and you will learn about this game much better. :coffee:

[Northman]

I would not put the 2 against each other. 1 is executive the other is a player that is selling ticket/jersey/memorabilia, winning games and bringing interest back to this team.

It Bowlen had to choose between the two he would no be in a happy spot.

Sorry Phi, this comment is a fallacy. There is/was no indication that interest was being lost in the Denver Broncos. The only thing in Bronco nation that was apparent was their displeasure with McDaniels. Tebow didnt all of a sudden save them or the franchise. The fact that Tebow just happens to be better out of the QB's on the current roster doesnt mean he kept Bowlen from having to move the franchise to another city.

[NightTerror218]

Yes, you are.

You kept trying to claim he didnt care about the win when people posted evidence contrary to your statment. The fact that Elway still needs to see more from him as a QB has little to do with him being excited about a Broncos win. Learn the difference and you will learn about this game much better. :coffee:

Bad North change you avatar back to normality. You are faceless w/o it. :tsk:

[Northman]

Bad North change you avatar back to normality. You are faceless w/o it. :tsk:

Dont you mess with my Cavs Gator boy. :D

[rcsodak]

1st drive
3&5 mcgahee run for 6
2&9 passed deep, missed
3&9 passed complete for 8 yds

2nd drive
2-6 pass incomplete
3-6 run called, short

3rd drive

fumble

4th drive
3-11 pass

5th drive

3-10 pass

6th drive

3-6 pass complete for 5

7th drive

1- 10 incomplete
3-7 pass incomplete

8th drive
2nd 10 pass inc
3-10 pas inc

9th drive
2-11 inc
3-11 inc

10th drive
3-7 inc

11th drive
3-2 ball run short

12th drive
3-1 run converted
3-4 run for td

I added plays in the same series where it could be said Tebow contributed to the down and distance with missed passes. Below are the % completion by down and distance

Second-and-1-5 yards 56
Second-and-6-9 yards 27
Second-and-10-plus 17
Third-and-1 67
Third-and-2 52
Third-and-3 49
Third-and-4 47
Third-and-5 42
Third-and-6 41
Third-and-7 37
Third-and-8 32
Third-and-9 32
Third-and-10 or more 20
Wow! GEM could do better!

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[NightTerror218]

Sorry Phi, this comment is a fallacy. There is/was no indication that interest was being lost in the Denver Broncos. The only thing in Bronco nation that was apparent was their displeasure with McDaniels. Tebow didnt all of a sudden save them or the franchise. The fact that Tebow just happens to be better out of the QB's on the current roster doesnt mean he kept Bowlen from having to move the franchise to another city.

I didn't say we lost anything. TT just brought more interest. Can you say the bronco fanbase it bigger with TT here? Yes you can. Bowlen hired Elway to help bring the fanbase back to the franchise that was disgraced with McD. Winning has done that. I didn't state TT saved anything. The team is getting national recognition again like we use to, we are no longer the laughing stock of the league like we have been for a year and a half.

Sorry North but you added a lot more to my mouth then I said here. :salute:

[rcsodak]

According to what John is looking for, would you have Tebow play more in the pocket and more pass attempts in these last 6 games. I understand wins are more important and it seems the current offensive scheme built around Tebow has brought us wins, but I'm not sure how one can truly evaluate with limited passing attempts. With SD having a not-so-good secondary I'd like to see Tebow with at least 25 attempts.

So youre happy with 10-11 completions and 4-19 3rd %?

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[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yes, you are.

You kept trying to claim he didnt care about the win when people posted evidence contrary to your statment. The fact that Elway still needs to see more from him as a QB has little to do with him being excited about a Broncos win. Learn the difference and you will learn about this game much better. :coffee:

Come on North - you know that Elway is the only person who feels it's important to convert 3rd downs

[catfish]

So youre happy with 10-11 completions and 4-19 3rd %?

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I dont think anyone is happy with the conversion %, but many would prefer to see more 3rd and 3 attempt rather than 3rd and 9

[Nomad]

So youre happy with 10-11 completions and 4-19 3rd %?

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If Tebow's being evaluated then give him more attempts from the pocket......if he doesn't play up to John's standard then we'll know he was given ample opportunities to get better the last 6 games.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:



It's clear Elway wants to see Tebow improve. Elway is open to Tebow, but he isn’t sold on him, despite the fact Tebow is 4-1 as the Broncos’ starter this year.

Denver likely won’t make its final decision on Tebow until after this season.

Tebow has support in the form of star Denver left cornerback Champ Bailey. He told a Denver radio station that Tebow will be “unstoppable” when Tebow improves his throwing.

full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/35826/elway-not-ready-to-commit-to-tebow

[Northman]

from article:




full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/35826/elway-not-ready-to-commit-to-tebow

Yep, Ho-hum. :lol:

[Thnikkaman]

Listen to what Phil Simms had to say this morning on the Dan Patrick show about Tebow (around the 7:40 mark of the interview):

http://www.danpatrick.com/2011/11/21/phil-simms-tim-tebow-has-to-stop-worrying-about-throwing-ints/

Basically he says that Tebow is afraid to throw the ball, and needs to trust his arm and his receivers more.

[Nomad]

Listen to what Phil Simms had to say this morning on the Dan Patrick show about Tebow (around the 7:40 mark of the interview):

http://www.danpatrick.com/2011/11/21/phil-simms-tim-tebow-has-to-stop-worrying-about-throwing-ints/

Basically he says that Tebow is afraid to throw the ball, and needs to trust his arm and his receivers more.

So he needs more attempts to build his confidence.

[jhildebrand]

And Elway said again....If Tebow doesn't improve, he's not the future of this team.


Who is Bowlen going to listen to.....the guy who took his team to 5 SB's and won 2, or the guy who has won 4 regular season games?


:lol:

He's won 5 Gem! :rolleyes:

:laugh:

[slim]

So he needs more attempts to build his confidence.

Or maybe some higher % pass plays (like in the first half against the Jets).

But I agree with Simms. I think a lot of his inaccuracy is mental.

[NightTerror218]

Or maybe some higher % pass plays (like in the first half against the Jets).

But I agree with Simms. I think a lot of his inaccuracy is mental.

I wonder if some of it is his OL, if he doesn't trust them so he wants to get out of pocket asap which means tuck and run.

[Nomad]

Or maybe some higher % pass plays (like in the first half against the Jets).

But I agree with Simms. I think a lot of his inaccuracy is mental.

Correct! Being confident is a mental aspect and Tebow needs more attempts or as you said high % of pass plays to gain the confidence in his arm and teammates. If they give him more attempts with the same results then definitely Tebow will have a problem.

But what John is evaluating Tebow on, I'd like to see the coaching staff give Tebow more opportunities/plays to show.

[MOtorboat]

I wonder if some of it is his OL, if he doesn't trust them so he wants to get out of pocket asap which means tuck and run.

Because it couldn't possibly be Tebow's fault he doesn't throw it with confidence (which he doesn't).

Excuse, excuse, excuse.

[TT15Superman]

Yes, you are.

You kept trying to claim he didnt care about the win when people posted evidence contrary to your statment. The fact that Elway still needs to see more from him as a QB has little to do with him being excited about a Broncos win. Learn the difference and you will learn about this game much better. :coffee:No...I said that Elway was ho hum about the comeback because he was conflicted...."he is not sold on Tebow" as a QB.

Everything I mentioned was accurate
1. Bowlen was excited
2. Elway was ho hum because he was happy for the win/TD, but not sold on Tebow as the QB

Again....who is clueless? We all know who is despite your comment.

[Agent of Orange]

And Elway was being honest. He said that Tim NEEDS to improve on the 3rd down conversions. He can't go 9 3 and outs in the middle of a game. He also said he has not seen a drastic improvement. These are all true statements that any front office would say. He's not pulling Tim because of it, if he can't improve by the end of the season, it may force a change.

I can't fault the front office for that. I would hope they give Tim the rest of the season and in that time, there is someone working with Tim on the things that aren't working. I would love for it to work out, but I don't live in this bubble that imagines that no matter what not scoring for 3 out of 4 quarters against upper echelon teams is a winning strategy.

We can't say we want transparency and then get upset when we get it. I'd rather know the truth of how they are feeling instead of being lied to. :shrugs:

Yeah, transparency...like when Elway denied he was at the OU-Baylor game for the QBs.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

No...I said that Elway was ho hum about the comeback because he was conflicted...."he is not sold on Tebow" as a QB.

Everything I mentioned was accurate
1. Bowlen was excited
2. Elway was ho hum because he was happy for the win/TD, but not sold on Tebow as the QB

Again....who is clueless? We all know who is despite your comment.

I may have missed it, but I do not remember seeing Bowlen on camera.

Also, in the DP, it stated that Elway not not only clapping, but also whistling after the TD was scored. Dang, I don't know what is wrong with him - he should have done the helicopter from up high where he was sitting down onto the sidelines.

[TT15Superman]

I agree with Elway, BTW, re: the need to be better at the passing game AND third downs.

With that said, it just seemed like on a number of those on Thursday, McCoy was reaching into his back of tricks to see what would work vs. standard plays.

The quick snap to the RB? The end around to Royal?

I say, "Work on the throws and getting Timmy comfortable with them." Keep doing that UNTIL he can do them consistently. Being a pocket QB is NOT done only in practice, but comfort in games. Stop with the trick plays where the ball is not in #15's hands...if he is being "evaluated", let him prove himself.

Case in point - redo these passes over and over:
1. Missed bomb to Decker
2. A little wide to DT
3. Low and away to Royal
4. Bullet to Decker that hit the CB vs. Decker's hands.
5. Over the middle pass that was either too far in front or too early to Fells.
6. Behind the shoulder throw to DT (last drive)
7. Short hop to DT (last drive)


I may have missed it, but I do not remember seeing Bowlen on camera.http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7249302/he-was-once-again-awful-most-game-mattered-tim-tebow-came-yet-again

Also, (per Vic and Gary) team reps have told national broadcasts that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES are they to show Bowlen on the broadcast.

[TXBRONC]

Yet Elway said he is going to be working with TT over the summer. And are you sure he flat out said no? Doesn't sound like something Elway would say. I could see him saying we are still evaluating and looking.

His answer was a definitive no. There is confusion in Elway saying he work with Tebow this summer. He's the only quarterback under contract going into next season.

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[Denver Native (Carol)]

I agree with Elway, BTW, re: the need to be better at the passing game AND third downs.


With that said, it just seemed like on a number of those on Thursday, McCoy was reaching into his back of tricks to see what would work vs. standard plays.

The quick snap to the RB? The end around to Royal?

I say, "Work on the throws and getting Timmy comfortable with them." Keep doing that UNTIL he can do them consistently. Being a pocket QB is NOT done only in practice, but comfort in games. Stop with the trick plays where the ball is not in #15's hands...if he is being "evaluated", let him prove himself.

Case in point - redo these passes over and over:
1. Missed bomb to Decker
2. A little wide to DT
3. Low and away to Royal
4. Bullet to Decker that hit the CB vs. Decker's hands.
5. Over the middle pass that was either too far in front or too early to Fells.
6. Behind the shoulder throw to DT (last drive)
7. Short hop to DT (last drive)

They are not running standard plays all of the time with Tebow - at this point, as it does not work. There have been many articles that have stated that right now, the offensive game plan is based on what Tebow is comfortable with. What else do you want them to do? People were complaining that the Broncos were not taking advantage of his strengths.

[TXBRONC]

Does anyone have a breakdown of how many third downs we passed on, how many of those were missed because of bad passes, and what was the yardage needed to convert?

I saw a stat just recently that 36% of Tebow's passes are categorized as just poorly thrown.

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[TT15Superman]

They are not running standard plays all of the time with Tebow - at this point, as it does not work. There have been many articles that have stated that right now, the offensive game plan is based on what Tebow is comfortable with. What else do you want them to do? People were complaining that the Broncos were not taking advantage of his strengths.If they/Elway are/is evaluating him on his passing, then they need to work on more passing. I don't know how, but they need to. Starting the game with a big pass is one way when the D is thinking run-option all the way.

I mean, really, if they are run, run, and third and long...you need to pass. As predictable as that is.

Also, Big Al just mentioned something that I have been pondering and concerned about with Timmy. He needs to get better at throwing in order for the receivers to develop. YAC, route running, etc. He may make the defense play better, but IN NO WAY, is he making the entire offense play better - the O-line and the RBs may be, but the WRs/TEs are not except for blocking.

I love Timmy and would love nothing more than to see him the franchise QB of the Broncos, making Mile High and fans all over fall in love with him (like Thursday) the way I do/did based on his hard-nosed, "run you over", passionate QB play. But in order for that to happen long term, he needs to learn to pass effectively. If that means working on spinning the ball, more touch, more timing, more hyper-accuracy, more pocket play, then so be it....he needs to be a "renaissance" QB...one who can DO IT ALL.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that Elway will let that happen without keeping us all in suspense. Some way, I think it's best for Tim to be challenged - to draft a QB. He thrives on it. However, if, again, the starter is based on "practice", well, Tim will most likely not be the starter in 2012.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If they/Elway are/is evaluating him on his passing, then they need to work on more passing.

I mean, really, if they are run, run, and third and long...you need to pass. As predictable as that is.

Also, Big Al just mentioned something that I have been pondering and concerned about with Timmy. He needs to get better at throwing in order for the receivers to develop. YAC, route running, etc. He may make the defense play better, but IN NO WAY, is he making the entire offense playing better - the O-line and the RBs may be, but the WRs/TEs are not except for blocking.

When the season starts, what they work on during the week is the game plan for their next opponent, not what they are evaluating someone on. That is done in the offseason.

[catfish]

When the season starts, what they work on during the week is the game plan for their next opponent, not what they are evaluating someone on. That is done in the offseason.

agreed, mechanics aren't fixed on the fly. the week is too busy during the season. They are going to need to do the best they can with what they have for now...IMO he does seem to be doing better going through his reads and getting the ball out

[GEM]

Yeah, transparency...like when Elway denied he was at the OU-Baylor game for the QBs.

Why get snippy everytime anything negative gets brought up?

For the who know how many times.....I like Tebow. I hope he works out. But I don't live in some dream world that says because Tebow doesn't do well, Elway is the bad guy. I don't live in some dream world that says Tebow deserves anything more than the shot he's getting. If he doesn't make the best of the shot he's given and Denver drafts a QB, my world goes on. My Broncos world revolves around the Broncos, not Tebow.

Him saying he still doesn't see Tebow as being the sure QB of the future kind of makes sense for him to be out looking at QB's. Whether he says it's because of that or he says he is just out watching a football game...I give a rat's ass. I'd be more upset if he isn't keeping an eye on QB's for the draft in case Tebow doesn't work out.

He emphatically says that right now, we may not have the future qb on roster. He says Tebow needs to work on some things. He allows Tebow the chance to do so by not saying he is out scouting QB's in the media. But he does have to do so. He can't just sit back, find out Tebow isn't the guy and then just draft some guy he has never watched play. How stupid would that be? He comes out and says Yea I was out scouting Barkley, Tebow's confidence falls to shit and then what? Where if he goes out and does it, but states that he was just watching a football game, he keeps it on the down low, while not killing Tebow's momentum. I think it's naive to think that he would say it all, without thought or worry as to how his words would affect the team and the current QB. Tebow can hear that he needs to work on these things, and he can work. He hears that they are definitely scouting qb's, he has nothing to work towards.

FFS....some of you want Elway to marry the guy. He isn't going to do it. Get over it.

[Ziggy]

It's going to be hard to give Tebow more throws when he's missing wide open guys by 10-15 yards at times. The same fans of Tebow that advocate him giving us the best chance to win right now, which he does, are the ones that are complaining that he doesn't get more passing attempts. At this stage in his development, having Tebow pass frequently does not give this team the best chance to win. Just like he took advantage when he finally got in the game to show that he can win, he's going to have to take advantage of his opportunities and show that he can pass before they cut him loose early and often in the game.

[Ziggy]

Why get snippy everytime anything negative gets brought up?

For the who know how many times.....I like Tebow. I hope he works out. But I don't live in some dream world that says because Tebow doesn't do well, Elway is the bad guy. I don't live in some dream world that says Tebow deserves anything more than the shot he's getting. If he doesn't make the best of the shot he's given and Denver drafts a QB, my world goes on. My Broncos world revolves around the Broncos, not Tebow.



Any word against the illusion that Tebow is the best QB in the NFL will be taken as hostile and unbelieving, whether it's true or not. How dare you bring facts into the argument Gem. You must hate Tebow like the rest of us who look at his game objectively while we root for him. :D

[TT15Superman]

It's going to be hard to give Tebow more throws when he's missing wide open guys by 10-15 yards at times. The same fans of Tebow that advocate him giving us the best chance to win right now, which he does, are the ones that are complaining that he doesn't get more passing attempts. At this stage in his development, having Tebow pass frequently does not give this team the best chance to win. Just like he took advantage when he finally got in the game to show that he can win, he's going to have to take advantage of his opportunities and show that he can pass before they cut him loose early and often in the game.I don't disagree except for the "10-15 yards at times comment". Personally, I do not think that has happened since the Miami/Detroit game...but probably more the Miami game.

I think they tried in the 3rd Qtr where a drive or two had more than 1 pass attempt.

Look, I think that he can do it. If he can go 3-5 on the last, pressure-packed drive, why can't that be the way with most drives? Is he just more comfortable in the 4th (less "rust", so to speak, or last chance?)?

I still don't get why his passing seemed to be better late last season. Sometimes, I wonder if it isn't by chance alone that his sample this season is worse than his sample last season. Maybe, he's just off by a little...and that is all it takes. One article mentioned vision issues...I've thought of that also. Is he wearing contacts? (hope not) There are photos of him wearing spectacles while walking with Meyer at Florida. If it's vision, get him to the best ophthalmologist ASAP for some LASIK! (Maybe it is...but LASIK requires 6 months of healing and winter dryness in CO is NOT the best time to get it.)

[GEM]

Honestly, I think all this talk about mechanics and throwing motion are in the kids head. I think he hasn't gotten over that mentally and he's thinking far too hard about that shit. Can he get over it? I don't know. I would hope so. His future in Denver hangs on it.

[MOtorboat]

RT @VicLombardi Getting all kinds of anti-Elway reaction after what he told us about Tebow this morning. Frankly, it's embarrassing. He speaks the truth.

RT @VicLombardi You don't think he knows what's best for this team in the long haul? All he said is that Tebow needs to to improve his passing. Yup.

RT @VicLombardi All he said is that the team is still evaluating the position. Again, what's wrong with that?

RT @VicLombardi As I've said all along, let the season play out. You can't blast a guy for being honest. Would you rather he grin and lie?

RT @thegarymiller It's great to hear what someone like Elway really thinks. He's letting us all in. Most sports execs lie every time their lips move.

[dogfish]

I may have missed it, but I do not remember seeing Bowlen on camera.

Also, in the DP, it stated that Elway not not only clapping, but also whistling after the TD was scored. Dang, I don't know what is wrong with him - he should have done the helicopter from up high where he was sitting down onto the sidelines.

carol, let me just go ahead and spell it out for you, since none of them will. . . the tebowners aren't going to be satisfied until denver signs tim to a fifteen-year contract and gets rid of every other QB on the roster-- and the league awards him a lifetime achievement all-time NFL MVP award, renames the lombardi in his honor, and builds him his own wing in the hall of fame. . .

that, and pat bowlen and john elway need to wash tim's feet at the fifty-yard line as part of this year's super bowl halftime festivities. . .

[Ziggy]

They need to fix his footwork and leave his throwing motion alone. He's got a strong enough arm to zing it in there when he wants to. If he can get back into his set quicker and get his feet set correctly, it should improve his accuracy some.

[dogfish]

You can't blast a guy for being honest. Would you rather he grin and lie?

clearly, an awful lot of people would prefer exactly that. . .


ah well, **** 'em. . . elway was here before them, and will be here long after. . .

[MOtorboat]

Sorry for the tweet posts, but I think these are interesting, considering they come from the two guys who conducted the interview.

RT @RockyMtnGators @thegarymiller @VicLombardi It's totally ok for him to feel that way. It's totally the wrong move to say it publicly under these conditions

RT @VicLombardi @RockyMtnGators No, it's not. What conditions? That's what makes Tebow radicals non-sensical. Conditions? Kidding me.

RT @RockyMtnGators @VicLombardi radicals? team is 4-1 while he's starting with the whole football worlds attention focused on the Broncos...

RT @VicLombardi @RockyMtnGators A radical is someone who chooses a player over team. No player is bigger than the team. No one.

[dogfish]

They need to fix his footwork and leave his throwing motion alone. He's got a strong enough arm to zing it in there when he wants to. If he can get back into his set quicker and get his feet set correctly, it should improve his accuracy some.

i've been saying the exact same thing. . . he's obviously suffering paralysis from analysis. . . they need to get his feet right, and let him throw it how he's comfortable-- you can always come back in a couple of years and tweak his delivery. . . they did with aaron rogers. . . ATM he doesn't need anything more to process. . .

[Ziggy]

I appreciate Elway's honesty. Rather than taking the company line, he's telling the fans what really needs to happen to go all in on Tebow. Vic is right on the money when he says that the Tebow radicals are non-sensical. You can open any Tebow thread on this or any other Broncos forum and see evidence of it.

[NightTerror218]

Because it couldn't possibly be Tebow's fault he doesn't throw it with confidence (which he doesn't).

Excuse, excuse, excuse.

I am saying TT does not have confidence in his OL. So he gets scared and runs. I am not making excuses here. Voicing an option that it is another mental issue. :tsk::tsk:

[NightTerror218]

They need to fix his footwork and leave his throwing motion alone. He's got a strong enough arm to zing it in there when he wants to. If he can get back into his set quicker and get his feet set correctly, it should improve his accuracy some.

He also needs to improve his speed, varying speed between distances. Short passes seem to be slight lob passes.

[MOtorboat]

I am saying TT does not have confidence in his OL. So he gets scared and runs. I am not making excuses here. Voicing an option that it is another mental issue. :tsk::tsk:

The issue brought up is his obvious lack of confidence in the reads he processes immediately after the snap. That's why we see him pump fake, or dance, or have the ball slip out. Because he's thinking too much and not trusting his read and his arm and just letting it rip.

It has nothing to do with the damn offensive line, so that's why your comment was an excuse, or a deflection, or whatever you want to call it.

[MOtorboat]

clearly, an awful lot of people would prefer exactly that. . .


ah well, **** 'em. . . elway was here before them, and will be here long after. . .

I don't think people want them to lie, I think they don't like the answer they got when the question was asked.

[Slick]

It's going to be hard to give Tebow more throws when he's missing wide open guys by 10-15 yards at times. The same fans of Tebow that advocate him giving us the best chance to win right now, which he does, are the ones that are complaining that he doesn't get more passing attempts. At this stage in his development, having Tebow pass frequently does not give this team the best chance to win. Just like he took advantage when he finally got in the game to show that he can win, he's going to have to take advantage of his opportunities and show that he can pass before they cut him loose early and often in the game.


Well said Ziggy.


Don't blow this out of proportion guys. I really don't think Elway's comments today are a big deal.


Can't we just let this kid be a young QB see how it goes?

We've fallen into the same trap as the media where we're over scrutinizing the kid about every little thing.

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[wayninja]

I am saying TT does not have confidence in his OL. So he gets scared and runs. I am not making excuses here.

What a load of horse shit.

He's not hitting guys that are wide open a good percentage of the time when under no pressure. It doesn't get any more definitive than that.

[NightTerror218]

What a load of horse shit.

He's not hitting guys that are wide open a good percentage of the time when under no pressure. It doesn't get any more definitive than that.

it was only an idea, holy ****

[wayninja]

it was only an idea, holy ****

Ok, fair enough. Your idea sucks though.

[vhatever]

Elway says something and then everyone doubles over backward to cover his latest ill fated comments. ROFLMAO. Every day it's something new. Tomorrow he could come out and say that Von Miller might be replaced next year unless he leanrs to jump routes better and everyone on here would be in support, drooling all the while.

As anyone with a brain already knows, Elway and company were hoping tebow horribly failed. He didn't. Now he's treading water. They even traded lloyd away just before tebow took over. Total coinkydink suuuuuurreeee. Who was the third down reciever for the broncos?? Oh ya, Lloyd!

Derp.

[NightTerror218]

Ok, fair enough. Your idea sucks though.

All it would have taken was a no, and i would have been like ok.

[wayninja]

All it would have taken was a no, and i would have been like ok.

I think MO told you no, and it wasn't ok.

Also, don't feel bad, but you needed to be made an example of. Tebow is winning which forgives a lot, but please lets stop glossing over where he is deficient (not you particularly, but in general).

[honz]

You guys realize Elway and Tebow talk to each other off the record right? I highly doubt Tebow is being blindsided by the fact that Elway thinks he needs to improve.

[NightTerror218]

You guys realize Elway and Tebow talk to each other off the record right? I highly doubt Tebow is being blindsided by the fact that Elway thinks he needs to improve.

I bet TT is going over for Turkey Day

[catfish]

I don't think people want them to lie, I think they don't like the answer they got when the question was asked.

for the record I am a huge Tebow homer and don't really have any issue with the answer...I actually take more issue with the people trying to read Elways mind as to why he said it

[dogfish]

Elway says something and then everyone doubles over backward to cover his latest ill fated comments. ROFLMAO. Every day it's something new. Tomorrow he could come out and say that Von Miller might be replaced next year unless he leanrs to jump routes better and everyone on here would be in support, drooling all the while.

As anyone with a brain already knows, Elway and company were hoping tebow horribly failed. He didn't. Now he's treading water. They even traded lloyd away just before tebow took over. Total coinkydink suuuuuurreeee. Who was the third down reciever for the broncos?? Oh ya, Lloyd!

Derp.

clearly, they want him to fail-- we're suddenly running zone read plays because they're the wave of the future in the NFL, not because the coaching staff is doing everything in their power to help tebow succeed. . .


seriously, you should have just left it at "derp"-- you'd contribute more value to the discussion that way. . .


:welcome:

[dogfish]

You guys realize Elway and Tebow talk to each other off the record right? I highly doubt Tebow is being blindsided by the fact that Elway thinks he needs to improve.

honz, if elway was a decent person, he'd just accept tim for who he is. . .

[Shazam!]

I'm sure the lack of a true feature Back on the roster has nothing to do with Denver's effectiveness on 3rd Down.

[NightTerror218]

I'm sure the lack of a true feature Back on the roster has nothing to do with Denver's effectiveness on 3rd Down.

the fact we have a lot of 3rd and longs down help either. But a good/healthy RB and some crisper passes would help that.

[vhatever]

clearly, they want him to fail-- we're suddenly running zone read plays because they're the wave of the future in the NFL, not because the coaching staff is doing everything in their power to help tebow succeed. . .


seriously, you should have just left it at "derp"-- you'd contribute more value to the discussion that way. . .


:welcome:

Who you can gonna throw the ball to? A bunch of never-weres and never-will-bes? I don't think Fox is trying to lose. But he's not a moron, and he knows full well the score. Tebow looked great for a rookie last season without all the read gimmicks.

[wayninja]

Elway says something and then everyone doubles over backward to cover his latest ill fated comments. ROFLMAO. Every day it's something new. Tomorrow he could come out and say that Von Miller might be replaced next year unless he leanrs to jump routes better and everyone on here would be in support, drooling all the while.

As anyone with a brain already knows, Elway and company were hoping tebow horribly failed. He didn't. Now he's treading water. They even traded lloyd away just before tebow took over. Total coinkydink suuuuuurreeee. Who was the third down reciever for the broncos?? Oh ya, Lloyd!

Derp.

Well.. Elway wouldn't come out and say they are going to trade one of the best defensive players in the league as a rookie. That just wouldn't make any sense.

What he said about Tebow makes perfect sense. Only complete retards wearing tebow shades would think that Tebow isn't 'treading water' when it comes to his play. He's played well enough to win, but only with the caveat that our defense is playing lights out. That's not good enough no matter what you and your ilk think.

Oh, and if you don't think trading Lloyd away was a good thing for Tebow, I'm not sure how to convince you the sun will rise tomorrow.



Who you can gonna throw the ball to? A bunch of never-weres and never-will-bes? I don't think Fox is trying to lose. But he's not a moron, and he knows full well the score. Tebow looked great for a rookie last season without all the read gimmicks.

This is just asinine. I admit Tebow doesn't have the best receiving corp in the NFL, but you must have a nutsack blocking your view if you can't tell some of his passes are miserable.

[chazoe60]

Tebow's fate as a Bronco is in his own hands. Improve, and keep winning and his Broncos future is secure. I for one think the kid can do it, others don't. We have six more games to see what happens.

[catfish]

clearly, an awful lot of people would prefer exactly that. . .


ah well, **** 'em. . . elway was here before them, and will be here long after. . .

I don't think they would prefer lies...but maybe be more political. ex "There is still a lot of football left to play.We are going to give Tim till the end of the season and assess things at that point." Elway is new to the position and is learning on the job, he will figure out the political correct talk eventually

[vhatever]

Tebow's fate as a Bronco is in his own hands. Improve, and keep winning and his Broncos future is secure. I for one think the kid can do it, others don't. We have six more games to see what happens.

So tebow needs to keep winning with a team with the worst record in the NFL over the last three years, a team he inherited with 1-4 record and both the best number 1 and best third down receiver traded away, a gimpy 30 year old RB with hamstring issues is his best RB, and the other out entirely from injuires.All so he can just hope to hang on to his starting job when the higher ups have shown little to no faith in him even after going 4-1 with this abomination?

Maybe he should be taking kickoff returns and playing a bit on defense, too, while we are throwing stones on his back. And replace his receivers with random fans from the audience. Juggle some knives. Eat some fire. Ride a unicycle.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Every Monday, at 6:00 pm, John is on with Susie Wargin and Dave Logan. Not long ago, Susie ask John about his comment earlier this morning on the radio.

John's response - "Tim is still a work in progress. We will look at all those different scenarios at the end of the season".

Towards the end of the program, John stated:

"Tim is so much farther along than he was last season. His techniques are better now they they were".

John also stated that Adam Gates spends much time working with Tim.

[Nomad]

Tebow's fate as a Bronco is in his own hands. Improve, and keep winning and his Broncos future is secure. I for one think the kid can do it, others don't. We have six more games to see what happens.

You're correct. I'd just like to see a little more pass plays implemented especially on 3rd downs. Enough of the QB draws, give Tebow the reps and if he can't be successful then it's on him and we know he's in trouble. Yeah, he should hit what he is given but given what the BRONCOS are looking for, I'd throw in another 10 pass plays each game to see...that's just me. I guess that makes me a Tebowner for wanting some more attempts:lol:

[MOtorboat]

So tebow needs to keep winning with a team with the worst record in the NFL over the last three years

I stopped reading here.

That's not even remotely true.

[turftoad]

So tebow needs to keep winning with a team with the worst record in the NFL over the last three years, a team he inherited with 1-4 record and both the best number 1 and best third down receiver traded away, a gimpy 30 year old RB with hamstring issues is his best RB, and the other out entirely from injuires.All so he can just hope to hang on to his starting job when the higher ups have shown little to no faith in him even after going 4-1 with this abomination?

Maybe he should be taking kickoff returns and playing a bit on defense, too, while we are throwing stones on his back. And replace his receivers with random fans from the audience. Juggle some knives. Eat some fire. Ride a unicycle.

:tsk: Oh my. You should just stop, now. :tsk:

[Slick]

Thank you Carol.



Mountain out of a mole hill.

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[Nomad]

Thank you Carol.



Mountain out of a mole hill.

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It's my day off and nothing else to do being cold and snowy outside:D

[catfish]

Thank you Carol.



Mountain out of a mole hill.

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exactly, just as 5 games shouldn't have been enough to bench him, 5 games isn't anywhere near enough to declare him starter for life. Give him the rest of the season, work with him in the offseason, re-assess at that time...don't understand why people get all up in arms over every comment that can be seen as negative...both sides are guilty the "haters" think it means Elway thinks like them that Tebow is a joke, the tebow zealots think it means the FO is against Tim. Most likely the FO is in the middle with the rest of us, he is winning games let him play see if he improves on the things he needs to improve on.

[Agent of Orange]

I appreciate Elway's honesty. Rather than taking the company line, he's telling the fans what really needs to happen to go all in on Tebow. Vic is right on the money when he says that the Tebow radicals are non-sensical. You can open any Tebow thread on this or any other Broncos forum and see evidence of it.

Except its not the Tebow radicals. There are plenty of people who liked the Broncos before Tebow was on the team who are offended at the expectation that Tebow is supposed to be X,Y, or Z after 8 starts. The fact that Tebow is winning while this raw should say enough about his potential upside.

[vhatever]

I stopped reading here.

That's not even remotely true.

Without tebow they are something like 12-24 this year plus 2 previous. Tell me who has a worse winning percentage over that time?

[MOtorboat]

the "haters" think it means Elway thinks like them that Tebow is a joke

I haven't seen anyone suggest that.

[catfish]

Every Monday, at 6:00 pm, John is on with Susie Wargin and Dave Logan. Not long ago, Susie ask John about his comment earlier this morning on the radio.

John's response - "Tim is still a work in progress. We will look at all those different scenarios at the end of the season".

Towards the end of the program, John stated:

"Tim is so much farther along than he was last season. His techniques are better now they they were".

John also stated that Adam Gates spends much time working with Tim.

You mean he didn't say Tebow was perfect as is and is HOF bound.....ELWAY HATES TEBOW! :foilhat:

[chazoe60]

So tebow needs to keep winning with a team with the worst record in the NFL over the last three years, a team he inherited with 1-4 record and both the best number 1 and best third down receiver traded away, a gimpy 30 year old RB with hamstring issues is his best RB, and the other out entirely from injuires.All so he can just hope to hang on to his starting job when the higher ups have shown little to no faith in him even after going 4-1 with this abomination?

Maybe he should be taking kickoff returns and playing a bit on defense, too, while we are throwing stones on his back. And replace his receivers with random fans from the audience. Juggle some knives. Eat some fire. Ride a unicycle.

In case you haven't paid attention to the entire Broncos team, I'm gonna tell you what's up. The defense is kicking serious ass right now. If Tim can't win or score more than 10 points a game while the defense is playing like this then that's on him.


The OL is playing well. The Defense is playing lights out. The RBs are stepping up. The WRs need to play better and Tim needs to play better in the passing game. McCoy needs to starting giving Tebow more oportunities in the passing game to either prove how good he can be or prove the oikes of Meril Hoge right.

Tebow is winning games and he is fun as hell to watch. You won't find a bigger Tebow fan/LIFE LONG BRONCO FAN than me and I can see where Tebow needs to improve. You zealot Tebow fans are the worst thing in the world for his image to casual fans. I feel bad for Tim because a lot of the hate thrown his way is because of his over zealous fans.

[MOtorboat]

Without tebow they are something like 12-24 this year plus 2 previous. Tell me who has a worse winning percentage over that time?

It's a false statement, no matter how you try and twist it.

[Nomad]

Except its not the Tebow radicals. There are plenty of people who liked the Broncos before Tebow was on the team who are offended at the expectation that Tebow is supposed to be X,Y, or Z after 8 starts. The fact that Tebow is winning while this raw should say enough about his potential upside.

I'm not offended by what John said. Tebow needs the improvement and my idea to give him perhaps the confidence he needs, is give him more pass plays instead of the QB draws or designed QB keepers.

[wayninja]

So tebow needs to keep winning with a team with the worst record in the NFL over the last three years, a team he inherited with 1-4 record and both the best number 1 and best third down receiver traded away, a gimpy 30 year old RB with hamstring issues is his best RB, and the other out entirely from injuires.All so he can just hope to hang on to his starting job when the higher ups have shown little to no faith in him even after going 4-1 with this abomination?

Yep. That's life. Go cry in your Tebow-Wheaties.

Although what you said about our team record was straight pulled from your large intestine.


Maybe he should be taking kickoff returns and playing a bit on defense, too, while we are throwing stones on his back. And replace his receivers with random fans from the audience. Juggle some knives. Eat some fire. Ride a unicycle.

Maybe, can't hurt his chances.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

VicLombardi Vic Lombardi
@
@Tebows_eyeblack What if I told you everything Elway said this morning is completely corroborated by Tebow himself?
1 hour ago

[Denver Native (Carol)]

VicLombardi Vic Lombardi
@
@ChristyL17 Again, he did not say that. He simply stated he's not ready to make a decision on the QB ... yet. Listen t.co/8i4DMu5N
1 hour ago

[catfish]

best way I can put it, anyone who says Tebow passing doesn't need work is kidding themselves, anyone who thinks Tebow is still missing recievers by 10-15 yds is kidding themselves. The accuracy isnt there yet, but it is improving

[vhatever]

It's a false statement, no matter how you try and twist it.

If it's false, it's not false by much. Over the last two seasons, this team is 4-14 without tebow. 5-3 with. the only reason you want to "stop reading" is cause you don't like the truth.

[wayninja]

You are right, it is false and I said it for shock value. I'm a jackass who likes to make these kinds of statements and then weasel out of them later.

Fixed it for you.

[wayninja]

best way I can put it, anyone who says Tebow passing doesn't need work is kidding themselves, anyone who thinks Tebow is still missing recievers by 10-15 yds is kidding themselves. The accuracy isnt there yet, but it is improving

That seems way too moderate for a thread titled "Elway not sold on Tebow". Are you sure you are posting in the right place?

[MOtorboat]

If it's false, it's not false by much. Over the last two seasons, this team is 4-14 without tebow. 5-3 with. the only reason you want to "stop reading" is cause you don't like the truth.

The three previous seasons, Denver is 20-28. This season and the previous two, Denver is 17-25.

It's not good, but it's not the worst. It's an inaccurate statement.

[catfish]

That seems way too moderate for a thread titled "Elway not sold on Tebow". Are you sure you are posting in the right place?

the accuracy isn't there because Elway is greasing the game balls before he hands them to Tebow.....better?

[TXBRONC]

I don't think they would prefer lies...but maybe be more political. ex "There is still a lot of football left to play.We are going to give Tim till the end of the season and assess things at that point." Elway is new to the position and is learning on the job, he will figure out the political correct talk eventually

The answer that Elway gave does not preclude him or Fox from giving Tebow until the end of the season before they make a final decision. Basically he was asked if had made up his mind about about Tebow and he said no.

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[wayninja]

the accuracy isn't there because Elway is greasing the game balls before he hands them to Tebow.....better?

You dare speak of Elway greasing balls????!!!???

Ok, now we are back on track.

[wayninja]

The answer that Elway gave does not preclude him or Fox from giving Tebow until the end of the season before they make a final decision. Basically he was asked if had made up his mind about about Tebow and he said no.

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I know that, you know that, but believe it or not, that is an EXTREMELY controversial position to take on Tebow for some folks.

[hamrob]

I have no problem with Elway saying that. We still havent seen if Tim can win a game passing through the air. While what we are doing so far is working it wont work for the longterm so the question of whether or not Tim can be an all around QB is still in question.So tell me, has Blain Ghabbert shown that he can pass out of the pocket, complete 3rd downs and take his team to a championship?

Hell no...the kid has only started 6-7 games.

Do you think Jax is going to get rid of him...or use their 1st round pick on a QB??

Hell no, you give a kid that you draft in the first round at least a couple years of starting before you make your mind up on him. Not 8 games.

By the way, Tebow is 5-3 in those games!

[catfish]

The answer that Elway gave does not preclude him or Fox from giving Tebow until the end of the season before they make a final decision. Basically he was asked if had made up his mind about about Tebow and he said no.

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oh I agree, and like I have said I don't really have a problem with the answer. I just think he probably could have answered it in a fashion that left less room for interpretation. Not that it would help I suppose, people are going to find some soundbyte to argue about...we do need to kill time till next weekend

[hamrob]

Here's my biggest beef about this whole thing.

Your team is on a high. They have just finished winning 4 of 5 games.

So, what do you do?

You go stick a pin in the bubble......and essentially say, they can't win with the guy behind center.

Wow. This has to rank up there with one of the stupidest things I've ever heard or seen an exec do.

I love Elway...but, Wow...he screwed the pooch on this one!!! Good luck in San Diego!!!

[wayninja]

So tell me, has Blain Ghabbert shown that he can pass out of the pocket, complete 3rd downs and take his team to a championship?

Hell no...the kid has only started 6-7 games.

Do you think Jax is going to get rid of him...or use their 1st round pick on a QB??

Hell no, you give a kid that you draft in the first round at least a couple years of starting before you make your mind up on him. Not 8 games.

By the way, Tebow is 5-3 in those games!

Comparing Tebow to Gabbart isn't really doing Tebow any favors...

[TXBRONC]

I know that, you know that, but believe it or not, that is an EXTREMELY controversial position to take on Tebow for some folks.

For some people it's controversial but not for others.

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[MOtorboat]

Here's my biggest beef about this whole thing.

Your team is on a high. They have just finished winning 4 of 5 games.

So, what do you do?

You go stick a pin in the bubble......and essentially say, they can't win with the guy behind center.

Wow. This has to rank up there with one of the stupidest things I've ever heard or seen an exec do.

I love Elway...but, Wow...he screwed the pooch on this one!!! Good luck in San Diego!!!

If there's anyone who has ever played football who played better when his back was up against the wall, it's Tebow...

Just saying...

[catfish]

So tell me, has Blain Ghabbert shown that he can pass out of the pocket, complete 3rd downs and take his team to a championship?

Hell no...the kid has only started 6-7 games.

Do you think Jax is going to get rid of him...or use their 1st round pick on a QB??

Hell no, you give a kid that you draft in the first round at least a couple years of starting before you make your mind up on him. Not 8 games.

By the way, Tebow is 5-3 in those games!

The argument there is Gabbert is a rookie while Tebow is in his 2nd year

[wayninja]

Here's my biggest beef about this whole thing.

Your team is on a high. They have just finished winning 4 of 5 games.

So, what do you do?

You go stick a pin in the bubble......and essentially say, they can't win with the guy behind center.

Wow. This has to rank up there with one of the stupidest things I've ever heard or seen an exec do.

I love Elway...but, Wow...he screwed the pooch on this one!!! Good luck in San Diego!!!

So, putting a guy on the spot who plays best while on the spot is a stupid thing to do? Alrighty then.

[hamrob]

Comparing Tebow to Gabbart isn't really doing Tebow any favors...That's my point. Jax will keep a shrub like Ghabbert...but, we won't give Tebow a shot at developing him. I guess 4-1 doesn't get you very far. I'm glad that we'll have a team believing in their QB heading into the most important game of the year. Great call by JE.

[wayninja]

The argument there is Gabbert is a rookie while Tebow is in his 2nd year

In terms of 'being evaluated', Tebow being in his second year is irrelevant.


That's my point. Jax will keep a shrub like Ghabbert...but, we won't give Tebow a shot at developing him. I guess 4-1 doesn't get you very far. I'm glad that we'll have a team believing in their QB heading into the most important game of the year. Great call by JE.

Who said we won't give Tebow a shot? Isn't that what's being done now?

Unless Elway goes on the field in the Wildcat, Tebow should require his belief and typically he's played better without it.

[vhatever]

The three previous seasons, Denver is 20-28. This season and the previous two, Denver is 17-25.

It's not good, but it's not the worst. It's an inaccurate statement.

Whatever. They are the worst team in the NFL over the last 1.5 seasons, minus "tebow time". Point still stands.

[hamrob]

So, putting a guy on the spot who plays best while on the spot is a stupid thing to do? Alrighty then.How about your locker room who is just starting to get on board with Tebow? You're essentially telling them...this won't last.

You don't believe me???

Watch where this thing goes this week.

Elway will be retracting or discussing his comment....he will back the F off of it. You don't think so. Watch???

[catfish]

In terms of 'being evaluated', Tebow being in his second year is irrelevant.

YOU are irrelevant ;)

[wayninja]

Whatever. They are the worst team in the NFL over the last 1.5 seasons, minus "tebow time". Point still stands.

No, it doesn't stand. You are making shit up again. If that were true, Tebow would be backing up Cam Newton.

[vhatever]

No, it doesn't stand. You are making shit up again. If that were true, Tebow would be backing up Cam Newton.

Thanks for reminding me.

I forgot to add "getting your coaching staff replaced --having your head coach be the guy who lost the most games in the NFL the previous season."

Thanks.

Ya, going 4-1 with this team should be easy. Haha. why, if tebow doesn't run the table he's a total failure this season and should be drafted for immediately!

[wayninja]

Thanks for reminding me.

I forgot to add "getting your coaching staff replaced --having your head coach be the guy who lost the most games in the NFL the previous season."

Thanks.

Ya, going 4-1 with this team should be easy. Haha. why, if tebow doesn't run the table he's a total failure this season and should be drafted for immediately!

Sure whatever it takes to twist your BS into something coherent.

No one is upset we are 4-1 with Tebow. The problem most of have with people like you is that you expect us to believe Tebow is doing it singlehandedly.

[vhatever]

Sure whatever it takes to twist your BS into something coherent.

No one is upset we are 4-1 with Tebow.

Wrong Elway is.

[wayninja]

Wrong Elway is.

And we've come full circle. Thanks for making me lose a little more faith my fellow man.

[vhatever]

And we've come full circle. Thanks for making me lose a little more faith my fellow man.

I'm so happy for you!

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3577/elwayunhappy.png

[Agent of Orange]

How about your locker room who is just starting to get on board with Tebow? You're essentially telling them...this won't last.

You don't believe me???

Watch where this thing goes this week.

Elway will be retracting or discussing his comment....he will back the F off of it. You don't think so. Watch???


I agree. All Elway is doing is creating a big distraction and potentially taking the wind out of the teams sails. Elway's a novice at this and it shows. But then again, maybe he's doing this for attention. Here was his tweet from Nov 19th.


Tim's doing a great job leading our offense, coming through when we need him the most. He's a winner who gets better every day.


No one talks about this. Then 2 days later he gets on the radio and goes all negative.

[MOtorboat]

Can someone with DVR :coughcoughTnedcough: take the next screen shot of Elway whistling, smiling and laughing that NFLN also showed and post it, so this crap will stop?

[catfish]

I agree. All Elway is doing is creating a big distraction and potentially taking the wind out of the teams sails. Elway's a novice at this and it shows. But then again, maybe he's doing this for attention. Here was his tweet from Nov 19th.



No one talks about this. Then 2 days later he gets on the radio and goes all negative.

try to look at it as non-commital rather than negative if ti helps

[Northman]

If Elway said Tebow was the greatest QB he ever saw and then Tebow tanked than people would bitch that Elway didnt know his head from his ass. I rather Elway be honest than lie to us about Tebow's progress. From what ive seen Tebow still needs a lot of work so Elway is just laying it out there honestly.

[vhatever]

so Elway is just laying it out there honestly.

Until tomorrow....

[Agent of Orange]

If Elway said Tebow was the greatest QB he ever saw and then Tebow tanked than people would bitch that Elway didnt know his head from his ass. I rather Elway be honest than lie to us about Tebow's progress. From what ive seen Tebow still needs a lot of work so Elway is just laying it out there honestly.

Except when it comes to why he's at the Baylor game, he's not being honest. Not only that, but he puts out all of these conflicting comments.

[Northman]

Except when it comes to why he's at the Baylor game, he's not being honest. Not only that, but he puts out all of these conflicting comments.

Who cares why he is at the Baylor game? Everyone with a grain of intelligence knows they are already out scouting players.

[wayninja]

Until tomorrow....

I'm starting to hope you are right about Tebow so you go along with him.

[Agent of Orange]

Who cares why he is at the Baylor game? Everyone with a grain of intelligence knows they are already out scouting quarterbacks.

Fixed. So why lie about it? Sorry but Elway is starting to look more raw as an executive than Tebow is as a QB.

[Northman]

Fixed. So why lie about it? Sorry but Elway is starting to look more raw as an executive than Tebow is as a QB.


How exactly is he lying about it? Everyone knows that Denver is going to draft a QB somewhere in the draft next year. Thats just a given.

[vhatever]

Except when it comes to why he's at the Baylor game, he's not being honest. Not only that, but he puts out all of these conflicting comments.

Did he comment about it? What did he say?

[Agent of Orange]

How exactly is he lying about it? Everyone knows that Denver is going to draft a QB somewhere in the draft next year. Thats just a given.

He's suggesting he's there for other players when there really arent any other players at that game that would likely go in the first round.

[wayninja]

He's suggesting he's there for other players when there really arent any other players at that game that would likely go in the first round.

What does the first round have to do with anything? Players in round 2 or later aren't scouted? They just 'wing it'?

If we stay even keel and win 3 of the next 6 games, it's unlikely we are going to get either of these QB's. If we lose all 6 games, it makes sense to me to consider one of these guys.

[Agent of Orange]

Did he comment about it? What did he say?

About why he was at the Baylor game or about the other conflicting comments?

When the show started this morning, the first question was how was the Baylor game. John seemed annoyed with the idea that they knew where he was. They asked him about going there to watch the 2 QB prospects in that game and he responded by saying some crap about being there to scout other players and suggested he spent a Saturday potentially replacing the 53rd man on the roster. Just ****, John. Everyone knows you were there to watch the QBs and spare us the suggestion that you were there to watch a 6th round lineman.

The other conflicting comments he made were the positive comments that he made on the 19th (which, ironically was the same day he was scouting Levi Jones and RG3), which was followed by his negative comments on the radio this morning.

[Northman]

He's suggesting he's there for other players when there really arent any other players at that game that would likely go in the first round.

When did he make a statement he was only scouting for 1st round talent? Do you have a link to his statement on that?

[Agent of Orange]

What does the first round have to do with anything? Players in round 2 or later aren't scouted? They just 'wing it'?

If we stay even keel and win 3 of the next 6 games, it's unlikely we are going to get either of these QB's. If we lose all 6 games, it makes sense to me to consider one of these guys.

Just stop. The VP of the team doesnt go to games to scout 6th round picks. You should also really look at the various college games that he's been going to and stop embarrassing yourself.

[BeefStew25]

Info is king. Keep getting info, 7.

[Agent of Orange]

When did he make a statement he was only scouting for 1st round talent? Do you have a link to his statement on that?

It was the opposite. They asked him about going there to watch the QBs and he said he was there to potentially look at 6th round picks. Like I just told the last guy, people need to familiarize themselves with the college games that he's been attending.

[TXBRONC]

try to look at it as non-commital rather than negative if ti helps

Him being non-committal isn't necessarily good news but at the same time it's not like Tebow doesn't have a opportunity to convince him that he's the guy.

[dogfish]

so do you guys get good wifi on the grassy knoll?

[Northman]

It was the opposite. They asked him about going there to watch the QBs and he said he was there to potentially look at 6th round picks. Like I just told the last guy, people need to familiarize themselves with the college games that he's been attending.

I watch plenty of college ball so i know why he is at those games. But again i dont see the big deal if he is trying to deflect why he is there if it is indeed just for the QB's. Who cares? Why are you so butthurt that he doesnt want to give away what he is doing at the games? I mean really? This is your biggest complaint? Really? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Agent of Orange]

I watch plenty of college ball so i know why he is at those games. But again i dont see the big deal if he is trying to deflect why he is there if it is indeed just for the QB's. Who cares? Why are you so butthurt that he doesnt want to give away what he is doing at the games? I mean really? This is your biggest complaint? Really? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

I've already elaborated about why the way he's been conducting himself is bad. Try to keep up.

[Slick]

so do you guys get good wifi on the grassy knoll?


Effin a.

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[Northman]

I've already elaborated about why the way he's been conducting himself is bad. Try to keep up.

You mean Elway has done what other GM's VP's, HC's etc have done? Really? I can go through a laundry list of things that Shanahan was never honest about to the media. Might want to refresh your knowledge on professional football and how the organizations handle their intel on scouting, etc.

[spikerman]

Elway would be a fool to openly discuss the players he's looking at. He's no fool.

[wayninja]

Just stop. The VP of the team doesnt go to games to scout 6th round picks. You should also really look at the various college games that he's been going to and stop embarrassing yourself.

YOU just ******* stop. You don't have a ******* clue why he was there and to claim that you are mind reader is ridiculous. I have no doubt he was looking at the QB's. I have no doubt he was looking at others too from several different rounds. So what? Why is that such a big deal to you?

[Agent of Orange]

You mean Elway has done what other GM's VP's, HC's etc have done? Really? I can go through a laundry list of things that Shanahan was never honest about to the media. Might want to refresh your knowledge on professional football and how the organizations handle their intel on scouting, etc.

You're the one who was just saying that you appreciate the honesty. Now you're defending the dishonesty. Do you value honesty or not? Which is it because Elway's been saying a lot of things...too many things.

He's too much of a novice in dealing with the media while having his title. He really needs to stop doing the radio show if he can't stop creating potential distractions.

And the thing is, there are a lot of ways to answer most of these questions that are better. But Elway's a novice with this and it really shows.

[TXBRONC]

so do you guys get good wifi on the grassy knoll?

No, no I don't.

[Northman]

I cant believe Agent is so easily duped by the thought that Elway would be so forward with who he is looking at. lmao

Talk about being gullible.

[Agent of Orange]

YOU just ******* stop. You don't have a ******* clue why he was there and to claim that you are mind reader is ridiculous. I have no doubt he was looking at the QB's. I have no doubt he was looking at others too from several different rounds. So what? Why is that such a big deal to you?

Like I said, stop embarrassing yourself.

[wayninja]

Like I said, stop embarrassing yourself.

Now that you've repeated yourself without contributing anything else but your smug sense of superiority in your ESP, I stand firmly chastised.

[Northman]

You're the one who was just saying that you appreciate the honesty. Now you're defending the dishonesty. Do you value honesty or not? Which is it because Elway's been saying a lot of things...too many things.

He's too much of a novice in dealing with the media while having his title. He really needs to stop doing the radio show if he can't stop creating potential distractions.

And the thing is, there are a lot of ways to answer most of these questions that are better. But Elway's a novice with this and it really shows.


Im talking about his comments regarding being sold on Denver having a starting QB. About Tebow's growth. As far as Elway being out and about scouting and looking at players i dont care what he says. It would be foolish to go out and tell the media EXACTLY what he was doing. Let the media and other NFL teams guess at what they are thinking come drafttime.

[vhatever]

I cant believe Agent is so easily duped by the thought that Elway would be so forward with who he is looking at. lmao

Talk about being gullible.

Lots of duped people in here. He isn't one of them.

[Agent of Orange]

Im talking about his comments regarding being sold on Denver having a starting QB. About Tebow's growth. As far as Elway being out and about scouting and looking at players i dont care what he says. It would be foolish to go out and tell the media EXACTLY what he was doing. Let the media and other NFL teams guess at what they are thinking come drafttime.

You're all over the place. Take some time. Figure out what it is you stand for...do you like the honesty or dishonesty. And then when you've figured out a position that isn't contradictory, come back and share you're journey with us.

[Northman]

You're all over the place. Take some time. Figure out what it is you stand for...do you like the honesty or dishonesty. And then when you've figured out a position that isn't contradictory, come back and share you're journey with us.

Actually, its pretty easy to lay out. But you seem to struggle with how football works.

When it comes to our QB position, honesty is the best policy in terms of how far along our young QB is coming. When it comes to scouting, keeping the rest of the league guessing is the best way to go. What part of that can you not understand?

[Agent of Orange]

Actually, its pretty easy to lay out. But you seem to struggle with how football works.

When it comes to our QB position, honesty is the best policy in terms of how far along our young QB is coming. When it comes to scouting, keeping the rest of the league guessing is the best way to go. What part of that can you not understand?

This is stupid. The honesty about "how far along our young QB is coming" will tip their hands with regard to the draft.

[wayninja]

Actually, its pretty easy to lay out. But you seem to struggle with how football works.

When it comes to our QB position, honesty is the best policy in terms of how far along our young QB is coming. When it comes to scouting, keeping the rest of the league guessing is the best way to go. What part of that can you not understand?

It's easy. The part where it in any way intersects with something that may affect his beloved.

[Northman]

This is stupid. The honesty about "how far along our young QB is coming" will tip their hands with regard to the draft.

Uh, no it wont. Even if Tebow bombs out the rest of the season the rest of the league doesnt know if Denver will still go with Tebow next year as a starter or not.

[jhildebrand]

So in 14 pages (I quit reading after page 8) I learned something:

Winning does NOT cure all. :noidea:

[TXBRONC]

Uh, no it wont. Even if Tebow bombs out the rest of the season the rest of the league doesnt know if Denver will still go with Tebow next year as a starter or not.

All they can do is guess and at best they have 50/50 chance of being right.

[Northman]

All they can do is guess and at best they have 50/50 chance of being right.


Yep. Im very surprised that Agent is struggling with this concept. He usually has more logical posts.

[wayninja]

Uh, no it wont. Even if Tebow bombs out the rest of the season the rest of the league doesnt know if Denver will still go with Tebow next year as a starter or not.

That's effectively what is causing the fits from the player fans. The mere thought that we could be planning for their potential failure is like flag burning to them.

[Northman]

That's effectively what is causing the fits from the player fans. The mere thought that we could be planning for their potential failure is like flag burning to them.

Which is why i dont care about fans of just players. They mean nothing to Bronco fandom and have nothing worth saying when it comes to the Denver Broncos.

[Agent of Orange]

Uh, no it wont. Even if Tebow bombs out the rest of the season the rest of the league doesnt know if Denver will still go with Tebow next year as a starter or not.

Like I said, this makes no sense. The way you're being an Elway apologist is more embarrassing than the "Tebow fans" that people like to complain about.

Here is what I care about: I just don't want distractions that might interfere with the current momentum of the team. Earlier, someone pointed out how Elway is being undermining regarding the success we're currently having. The team is rallying and Tebow has been a big part of it. Now suddenly, Elway is talking like he's looking to replace Tebow and instead of focusing on whats at hand, he's planting the seed in the player's minds that he's looking to mess with the team chemistry. I think Elway's comments can create this kind of a distraction and I think his lack of experience in this role is showing. I just want to keep this going and not have Elway mess with it.

As it appears right now, Tebow has Mike McCoy in his ear telling him not to throw INTs, and he has Elway publically saying that he needs to not be so safe with his throws. This is bad.

[TXBRONC]

That's effectively what is causing the fits from the player fans. The mere thought that we could be planning for their potential failure is like flag burning to them.

People have said all they want to see Tebow make progress. My question to that is by whose standard?

[vhatever]

Like I said, this makes no sense. The way you're being an Elway apologist is more embarrassing than the "Tebow fans" that people like to complain about.

Here is what I care about: I just don't want distractions that might interfere with the current momentum of the team. Earlier, someone pointed out how Elway is being undermining regarding the success we're currently having. The team is rallying and Tebow has been a big part of it. Now suddenly, Elway is talking like he's looking to replace Tebow and instead of focusing on whats at hand, he's planting the seed in the player's minds that he's looking to mess with the team chemistry. I think Elway's comments can create this kind of a distraction and I think his lack of experience in this role is showing. I just want to keep this going and not have Elway mess with it.


Elway had already planned for this team to tank, so he doesn't really care. More draft/better picks for him to "fix" things. elway wants tebow gone because he's getting bigger in denver than elway's shadow. and that scares the hell out of Johny, especially since he was someone else's pick.

[Northman]

Like I said, this makes no sense. The way you're being an Elway apologist is more embarrassing than the "Tebow fans" that people like to complain about.

Here is what I care about: I just don't want distractions that might interfere with the current momentum of the team. Earlier, someone pointed out how Elway is being undermining regarding the success we're currently having. The team is rallying and Tebow has been a big part of it. Now suddenly, Elway is talking like he's looking to replace Tebow and instead of focusing on whats at hand, he's planting the seed in the player's minds that he's looking to mess with the team chemistry. I think Elway's comments can create this kind of a distraction and I think his lack of experience in this role is showing. I just want to keep this going and not have Elway mess with it.


How is Elway messing with it? He's been making these comments from the start of camp all the way through till now and Tebow is just doing what Tebow does. Even Tebow himself would tell you the very things that Elway is saying is correct so again i ask what is your problem? If Tebow himself knows that Elway is correct than why do you care at this point?

[MOtorboat]

Elway had already planned for this team to tank, so he doesn't really care. More draft/better picks for him to "fix" things. elway wants tebow gone because he's getting bigger in denver than elway's shadow. and that scares the hell out of Johny, especially since he was someone else's pick.

This is pure bullshit. Absolut bullshit.

[Agent of Orange]

Elway had already planned for this team to tank, so he doesn't really care. More draft/better picks for him to "fix" things. elway wants tebow gone because he's getting bigger in denver than elway's shadow. and that scares the hell out of Johny.

When I first saw/heard comments like this from people, I used to think they were just Tebow fans being ridiculous. Now, I'm actually starting to wonder if there's something to it. I'm actually starting to wonder if the Elway apologists have become more ridiculous than the Tebow fans that people want to make fun of.

I'd still like to give Elway the benefit of the doubt. But it's like, either he doesn't know what he's doing because he's a novice when it comes to dealing with the media in this role,...or it might be as youre saying. I don't know which it is but I have to admit that I've become less convinced that Elway doesn't have it in for Tebow. And seeing all the Elway apologists just highlights what enables this to happen.

[jhildebrand]

When it comes to the words coming out of Elway's mouth, I want them to be clear as mud. I don't care for the transparency during the season and leading up to the draft (not that I put much into it anyway).

When it comes to TT and his play everybody should realize a few things:

1. It is a week to week proposition until the end of the season. It was known it would be that the minute he was inserted into the lineup against SD.

2. For the Tebow diehards: He does need to improve his accuracy. Footwork, mechanics and all the other stuff doesn't matter, at least to me personally, so long as he can show improvement in ball placement.

3. For the Tebow super critics: it is a bit of a disconnect saying he needs to be a better passer altogether and on 3rd downs when in two games he has all of 8 passes leading up to the 3rd quarter and if passes aren't called in favorable 3rd down situations.

This thread isn't deserving of 14 pages. It just isn't. It is plain that Elway has learned a few things about being a GM and is playing things close to the vest which I prefer.

What some should be talking about is our O line. Does all this running improve them? Is it setting us back? Are we being lulled into belieiving that Beadles and Walton and Franklin are better than they had appeared.

Just me I guess. :noidea:

[wayninja]

Here is what I care about: I just don't want distractions that might interfere with the current momentum of the team. Earlier, someone pointed out how Elway is being undermining regarding the success we're currently having. The team is rallying and Tebow has been a big part of it. Now suddenly, Elway is talking like he's looking to replace Tebow and instead of focusing on whats at hand, he's planting the seed in the player's minds that he's looking to mess with the team chemistry. I think Elway's comments can create this kind of a distraction and I think his lack of experience in this role is showing. I just want to keep this going and not have Elway mess with it.

EFX's job is to mess with team chemistry. This isn't a revelation to the players. His comments have not had any adverse reaction on our winning, so I'm not sure why stopping the status quo would be a good thing in terms of momentum. Like I said, Tebow plays best under pressure.


As it appears right now, Tebow has Mike McCoy in his ear telling him not to throw INTs, and he has Elway publically saying that he needs to not be so safe with his throws. This is bad.

Elway said he needs to not be safe? Funny, I seem to recall him contributing our low turnover % to our success. Do you have sources for these claims?

[vhatever]

This is pure bullshit. Absolut bullshit.

Me so happy...


...me could almost vomit.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3577/elwayunhappy.png

[Slick]

Like I said, this makes no sense. The way you're being an Elway apologist is more embarrassing than the "Tebow fans" that people like to complain about.

Here is what I care about: I just don't want distractions that might interfere with the current momentum of the team. Earlier, someone pointed out how Elway is being undermining regarding the success we're currently having. The team is rallying and Tebow has been a big part of it. Now suddenly, Elway is talking like he's looking to replace Tebow and instead of focusing on whats at hand, he's planting the seed in the player's minds that he's looking to mess with the team chemistry. I think Elway's comments can create this kind of a distraction and I think his lack of experience in this role is showing. I just want to keep this going and not have Elway mess with it.

As it appears right now, Tebow has Mike McCoy in his ear telling him not to throw INTs, and he has Elway publically saying that he needs to not be so safe with his throws. This is bad.

Did you not read Carol's post about what Elway said later on in the day when he was making his talk show rounds?

You're making a big deal out of nothing. Relax.

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[MOtorboat]

That stupid screen shot is one of the Absolut worst arguments ever.

[Thnikkaman]

so glad that threw local and national media have given us all this fuel to go ape shit about.

lets change the name of this site to."chicken little forums" because the sky sure as hell isn't falling

[Northman]

That stupid screen shot is one of the Absolut worst arguments ever.

Considering the poster are REALLY shocked? :lol:

[jhildebrand]

Elway had already planned for this team to tank, so he doesn't really care. More draft/better picks for him to "fix" things. elway wants tebow gone because he's getting bigger in denver than elway's shadow. and that scares the hell out of Johny, especially since he was someone else's pick.


This is pure bullshit. Absolut bullshit.

It is bullshit! You think Shanahan cared Elway was someone else's pick? :confused:

You think Seifert cared Montana and Young weren't his? :confused:

I could go on and on of coaches/gm's who won with QB's that weren't "their's."

Elway planned for this team to tank? :confused:

Link? Article? Because I heard it from the horses mouth :lol: that he was quite specific that 6 closer to 7 wins was his expectation. Clough has gone through this ad nauseum.

Finally, Elway, if what you said was accurate, would have been better served saving Bowlen the roster bonus, saving the media circus that has been around this team all season, and simply cut the kid. He didn't! In fact, in another well known and posted article, Elway did AS MUCH due diligence on TT as he could as soon as taking over. I recall him asking everyone who was left over from McDaniels about the move and if they would do it again. He said he would lean on that. To this day his $ has been where his mouth is.


How is Elway messing with it? He's been making these comments from the start of camp all the way through till now and Tebow is just doing what Tebow does. Even Tebow himself would tell you the very things that Elway is saying is correct so again i ask what is your problem? If Tebow himself knows that Elway is correct than why do you care at this point?

Tebow only said the exact same things in the Jets postgame i.e. I gotta get better. We gotta get better. I can improve etc...

[vhatever]

That stupid screen shot is one of the Absolut worst arguments ever.

The worst argument for elway apologists, at least. An unanswerable one. three seconds after perhaps the most amazing game winning TD drive in mile high in years and Elway is passing a kidney stone.

[underrated29]

I dont really know nor do I care. I like tebow and would LOVE to see him be our guy this year and next, to finally have a chance to work in the offseason, to work in TC (since he has never had a TC) as a starter...He obviously, elevates all those around him and the team loves him.


BUT- If not ok, fine, then not, but what I do not want is to EVER, EVER, EVER SEE KYLE ORTON UNDER CENTER FOR THE BRONCOS EVER AGAIN! NO!!!


Elway said on the MHR that he likes cowers idea of an Orton package. That just PISSES ME OFF!!! Orton sucks, sucks so bad. If its not tebow fine, but NEVER EVER Kyle Orton. EVER AGAIN!!!!


If they do, that would be the one and only time I would seriously consider not watching the broncos. I probably would but I would be hoping he just gets blown up. He is by far why I hate Josh Mcdaniels the most. For bringing him in here. Much rather have had Jason Campbell or any other scrub out there. I can not stand watching Kyle Orton as our QB.

[MOtorboat]

The worst argument for elway apologists, at least. An unanswerable one. three seconds after perhaps the most amazing game winning TD drive in mile high in years and Elway is passing a kidney stone.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Now we have "elway apologists." This is ridiculous.

[wayninja]

The worst argument for elway apologists, at least. An unanswerable one. three seconds after perhaps the most amazing game winning TD drive in mile high in years and Elway is passing a kidney stone.

Elway's medical conditions aside, your grandiose and overly complex theory with nothing more than a few seconds of facial expressions to back it up is really starting to sway me. You are 100% correct, I have no explanation for why Elway isn't reacting in the exact manner in which I would have otherwise pictured it, and therefore his feelings must be completely contradictory to what is being expressed in reality. Seems ironclad.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elway had already planned for this team to tank, so he doesn't really care. More draft/better picks for him to "fix" things. elway wants tebow gone because he's getting bigger in denver than elway's shadow. and that scares the hell out of Johny, especially since he was someone else's pick.


:tsk: :tsk: :tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

Right now, it's best to keep my thoughts to myself in regards to this asinine post.

[Nomad]

I do not want is to EVER, EVER, EVER SEE KYLE ORTON UNDER CENTER FOR THE BRONCOS EVER AGAIN! NO!!!


Elway said on the MHR that he likes cowers idea of an Orton package. That just PISSES ME OFF!!! Orton sucks, sucks so bad. If its not tebow fine, but NEVER EVER Kyle Orton. EVER AGAIN!!!!


.

Agreed! What's this about Cowher on Orton's package?

[Agent of Orange]

I dont really know nor do I care. I like tebow and would LOVE to see him be our guy this year and next, to finally have a chance to work in the offseason, to work in TC (since he has never had a TC) as a starter...He obviously, elevates all those around him and the team loves him.


BUT- If not ok, fine, then not, but what I do not want is to EVER, EVER, EVER SEE KYLE ORTON UNDER CENTER FOR THE BRONCOS EVER AGAIN! NO!!!


Elway said on the MHR that he likes cowers idea of an Orton package. That just PISSES ME OFF!!! Orton sucks, sucks so bad. If its not tebow fine, but NEVER EVER Kyle Orton. EVER AGAIN!!!!


If they do, that would be the one and only time I would seriously consider not watching the broncos. I probably would but I would be hoping he just gets blown up. He is by far why I hate Josh Mcdaniels the most. For bringing him in here. Much rather have had Jason Campbell or any other scrub out there. I can not stand watching Kyle Orton as our QB.

Another reason why Elway needs to consider staying off he radio.

[Thnikkaman]

That stupid screen shot is one of the Absolut worst arguments ever.

The worst argument for elway apologists, at least. An unanswerable one. three seconds after perhaps the most amazing game winning TD drive in mile high in years and Elway is passing a kidney stone.

you know the screen cap you keep posting is after the TAInt right?

[vhatever]

I dont really know nor do I care. I like tebow and would LOVE to see him be our guy this year and next, to finally have a chance to work in the offseason, to work in TC (since he has never had a TC) as a starter...He obviously, elevates all those around him and the team loves him.


BUT- If not ok, fine, then not, but what I do not want is to EVER, EVER, EVER SEE KYLE ORTON UNDER CENTER FOR THE BRONCOS EVER AGAIN! NO!!!


Elway said on the MHR that he likes cowers idea of an Orton package. That just PISSES ME OFF!!! Orton sucks, sucks so bad. If its not tebow fine, but NEVER EVER Kyle Orton. EVER AGAIN!!!!


If they do, that would be the one and only time I would seriously consider not watching the broncos. I probably would but I would be hoping he just gets blown up. He is by far why I hate Josh Mcdaniels the most. For bringing him in here. Much rather have had Jason Campbell or any other scrub out there. I can not stand watching Kyle Orton as our QB.

Elway actually said he liked the orton package idea?


ROFLMAO. Can you get a bloodier murder weapon? A guy who would be lucky to hold a 20 point lead is going to help to come from behind when you are 20 points in the red? How can you elway apologists really swallow this stuff by the shovel load?

[vhatever]

you know the screen cap you keep posting is after the TAInt right?

It's exactly three seconds after touchdown tebow.

[Agent of Orange]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Now we have "elway apologists." This is ridiculous.

It's a legitimate term. Deal with it.

[MOtorboat]

It's a legitimate term. Deal with it.

No, it's actually absurd.

[chazoe60]

Vhatever, please go away. You're embarrassing yourself and you give Tebow fans a bad name.

Take your stupid Elway hates Tebow shit somewhere else.

[TXBRONC]

It's a legitimate term. Deal with it.

No it's not, it shows a lack of intellect.

[BeefStew25]

We are 4-1 with TT, and there are still whiny poop filled diaper titty babies.

Vegas had us at 5.5 wins. We will win another game. This will be a good year for us.

Enjoy it. Of course Elway has ulterior motives. I expect him to. But everything he said about Tebow is obvious.

[BeefStew25]

Oh and the Jets game was so much fun. These team wins are fun as shit.

[vhatever]

Vhatever, please go away. You're embarrassing yourself and you give Tebow fans a bad name.

Take your stupid Elway hates Tebow shit somewhere else.


Nice orton package of a post.

[cmc0605]

There are a few things to go either way on both Fox' and Elway's comments concerning Tebow.

First, you don't want to bash your QB (or give the perception of bashing him) for a couple reasons, most of which are obvious. One, as others mentioned, you don't want to disrupt team chemistry. Also, if they ever plan on trading Tebow in the future, you don't want to give other teams the impression that he is worse than they might see purely by looking at the tape, as that would lower his value. I suspect neither Fox nor Elway have done much harm in this regard, but comments by Fox such as "he'd be screwed in a normal offense" may put a second thought into the heads of teams that might be willing to deal for Tebow, and whom are not willing to radically change their offense for him.

Again, I doubt there is much influential in what they have said, and I have seen more support from them than "bashing." The fact that he is playing in a spot he probably did not "earn" is evidence they want to at least give him the half-season workout and see what he can do. None of the conspiracy theories regarding Elway being jealous, etc hold any merit. Elway's place as one of the greatest Broncos of all time, the hall of fame, and as the guy all future QBs will need to look up to, is very secure. Even if an Aaron Rodgers comes around, who in many ways made people forget about Brett Favre in Green Bay, John will always be a bronco people love. But being an elite QB, and such a big name in Denver, he is also in a good place to judge prospective talent and has the authority and respect to be blunt about it.

Finally, the front office still holds the correct position- skeptical but not in denial. No sane person should be "sold on Tebow." That doesn't mean he will fail, but there isn't much evidence yet that he can be a consistent QB at this level. He has had a lot of luck, primarily against bad teams so far, but the "5 minutes of primetime" will not work consistently, especially against higher powered offenses. The argument that a QB's W-L record is a good proxy for his abilities is not convincing (it is relevant, but not even close to one-to-one). While it is easy to put the QB on the pedestal for a teams success or failures, anyone paying attention understands the role the defense, McGahee, etc have played in the recent success. It is also the reason Houston isn't in panic mode with Matt Leinart taking over for Schuab-- they have Foster, a great defense, and the receiving talent (Johnson, Owen Daniels, etc) to make life easy on their QB.

Tebow has established himself as a great football player, a leader, and has proved to have intangibles that people look for, but the style of offense the Broncos have built is not sustainable in the long-term and it is up to him to prove that he can evolve into a solid NFL passer. If he can, he may be one of the most dangerous NFL players around (his legs and comeback abilities, supplemented by a good arm would be great to see for years to come); but if he cannot, then he will have a rather short career, or at least one where he sits on the bench a lot.

[BroncoJoe]

Holy shit. Just something else for a bunch of arm chair QBs, GMs, Coaches and scouts to bitch about. Some of you are pretty pathetic.

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[chazoe60]

If what the brain dead Tebow/Elway conspiracy theorists say is true then you should be happy. Ecause once the final Tebow as a Bronco destruction is made complete by the fiendish Dr Evilway you'll be able to watch your boy on a different team.

Then when he goes to the Dolphins you morons can regale everyone with your theories about Dan Marino sneaking into Tebow's home late at night and giving him "dead arms" in hopes of preserving his Dolphins passing records.


Dipshits

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The worst argument for elway apologists, at least. An unanswerable one. three seconds after perhaps the most amazing game winning TD drive in mile high in years and Elway is passing a kidney stone.

Why don't you post the whole damn thing - NOT ONE SHOT ONLY????????

[wayninja]

It's a legitimate term. Deal with it.

What is there to apologize for? 5 AFC championships and 2 superbowls?

Loony shit going on here.

[jhildebrand]

Holy shit. Just something else for a bunch of arm chair QBs, GMs, Coaches and scouts to bitch about. Some of you are pretty pathetic.

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My apologies, Joe. You're right. I will be more cautious.

[chazoe60]

I really like Tebow but there's a segment of his fans that should all drink gallons of Drano.

[BeefStew25]

You're absurd. Actually, you should post a lot less. There. You have something in common with Elway. He should stay off the radio and you should stay off message boards. Its the only way for both you to save yourself from yourself.

By the way, it's sad that you don't know what the word "actually" means.

Do you hate winning?

[BeefStew25]

I really like Tebow but there's a segment of his fans that should all drink gallons of Drano.

Love the sinner hate the sin.

Love the QB hate his militants.

[Nomad]

I really like Tebow but there's a segment of his fans that should all drink gallons of Drano.

I went to school with a kid who did that in his younger years. Man, it screwed up his mouth and throat. He survived....graduated a year ahead of me.

[vhatever]

Why don't you post the whole damn thing - NOT ONE SHOT ONLY????????

How would I post the whole damn thing? Youtube would kill the link if I hosted it. You can go watch it yourself if you want, shouldn't be hard to find. There is no reason for him to look like that immediately after the touchdown. None. That's a genuine response.

[Nomad]

I really like Tebow but there's a segment of his fans that should all drink gallons of Drano.

Or you could advise them to go watch a welder's arc until they have no sensation in their eyes.:D

[Thnikkaman]

youtube will let you post a private video. you can also make an animated gif if it using free software.

hell, you can make the clip and send it to one of us to make the video.