Chances of Broncos landing Shonne Greene on the 09 roster

[broncos4life88]

Hey everyone I was just wondering what everybody thought about the chances of Denver drafting Greene-Machine in the draft? Since I am from Iowa and already a huge fan of the man I think he is really the only choice out there in the draft for a consistent runner. He obviously proved this with a hundred yards every game and racking up twenty touchdowns. From what I have learned no one is really expecting him to go very early and with our current selection at twelth we have an excellent chance at receiving him via the draft. So whats the chances? :salute:

[WARHORSE]

Hey everyone I was just wondering what everybody thought about the chances of Denver drafting Greene-Machine in the draft? Since I am from Iowa and already a huge fan of the man I think he is really the only choice out there in the draft for a consistent runner. He obviously proved this with a hundred yards every game and racking up twenty touchdowns. From what I have learned no one is really expecting him to go very early and with our current selection at twelth we have an excellent chance at receiving him via the draft. So whats the chances? :salute:


About the same as us landing Lesean.

[Lonestar]

Hey everyone I was just wondering what everybody thought about the chances of Denver drafting Greene-Machine in the draft? Since I am from Iowa and already a huge fan of the man I think he is really the only choice out there in the draft for a consistent runner. He obviously proved this with a hundred yards every game and racking up twenty touchdowns. From what I have learned no one is really expecting him to go very early and with our current selection at twelth we have an excellent chance at receiving him via the draft. So whats the chances? :salute:

unless he is available in round two or later I doubt we will waste a pick on a RB that high.. way to many other holes to fill.. BIG holes..

[broncos4life88]

Well if you think about it Shanny ain't the one doing the drafting anymore and I would say it is a rather large whole to fill to get a consistent healthy back. But I do understand the other problems that need direct attention. But the best way to get good depth on D is to use the FA to get the right personnel.

If not Greene...whats the chances of L.T. getting traded to Denver? I've heard the rumors of a trade over their so just wondering.

[Lonestar]

Well if you think about it Shanny ain't the one doing the drafting anymore and I would say it is a rather large whole to fill to get a consistent healthy back. But I do understand the other problems that need direct attention. But the best way to get good depth on D is to use the FA to get the right personnel.

If not Greene...whats the chances of L.T. getting traded to Denver? I've heard the rumors of a trade over their so just wondering.

none for LT coming to a AFCW team same thing goes for LJ..

We have some issues at RB but now they are retaining Bobby Turner less priority will be placed there..

Pat tightened the purse strings last year on FA 's will he loosen them this year? wanted to build via the draft we have like 10 picks this year so who knows for sure..

[MOtorboat]

If not Greene...whats the chances of L.T. getting traded to Denver? I've heard the rumors of a trade over their so just wondering.

Um...what?

Go back to Madden.

[Ziggy]

I doubt Denver ends up taking a back with thier 1st round pick when there should be impact players there on D. We need about 9 players on D, and 2-3 on offense. I'm guessing the focus in the first round of the draft will be at D.

[Ziggy]

Um...what?

Go back to Madden.

Wow, MB. Hitting the new guy hard and fast. Rough day?

[MOtorboat]

Wow, MB. Hitting the new guy hard and fast. Rough day?

He is suggesting a trade for LT...because he hears "rumors."

Sorry, but that's just idiotic.

[honz]

I heard the Broncos and Chargers were discussing a trade in which we get LT for a 5th round pick. :coffee:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

The same chance as anyone else. He'll probably be a second-rounder. So, I'd expect us to have to use ours then if we wanted to get him.

[tomjonesrocks]

He is suggesting a trade for LT...because he hears "rumors."

Sorry, but that's just idiotic.

Calm the eff down, Mr. "Let's dump Cutler if he doesn't like Bates leaving."
Sheesh. No need for the namecalling.

Obviously there's a zero percent chance LT winds up a Bronco--but the LT getting shopped "rumor" is on Sports Illustrated. The guy didn't read it on PFW. Unlikely, yes, but still not as ridiculous as some of the trade suggestions around here...

[MOtorboat]

Calm the eff down, Mr. "Let's dump Cutler if he doesn't like Bates leaving."
Sheesh. No need for the namecalling.

Obviously there's a zero percent chance LT winds up a Bronco--but the LT getting shopped "rumor" is on Sports Illustrated. The guy didn't read it on PFW. Unlikely, yes, but still not as ridiculous as some of the trade suggestions around here...

That's not what I suggested. I suggested Cutler needs to move on from this.

On the flip side, LT being traded to Denver is just not going to happen.

[tomjonesrocks]

That's not what I suggested. I suggested Cutler needs to move on from this.

On the flip side, LT being traded to Denver is just not going to happen.

No, its not--but it's no more ridiculous than Haynesworth or Matt Cassell or Brandon Jacobs or Asomugha winding up Broncos--and you can track down veteran poster suggesting that shite as well...

[MOtorboat]

No, its not--but it's no more ridiculous than Haynesworth or Matt Cassell or Brandon Jacobs or Asomugha winding up Broncos--and you can track down veteran poster suggesting that shite as well...

Which isn't me...so good luck with that.

[Rick]

unless he is available in round two or later I doubt we will waste a pick on a RB that high.. way to many other holes to fill.. BIG holes..

Like a BIG NT if we go 3-4.

[Northman]

I can see us taking Greene possibly and that wouldnt hurt my feelings at all. There are many ways to address the defensive or RB positions via draft or FA so anything's possible.

[broncos4life88]

I was just informed that LT IS getting traded! So I don't care what you say Missouribronc and as far as Greene the possibility is there, I was just expressing what are the odds that J-Mc takes him in the draft?

[MOtorboat]

I was just informed that LT IS getting traded! So I don't care what you say Missouribronc and as far as Greene the possibility is there, I was just expressing what are the odds that J-Mc takes him in the draft?

Oh really?

Source?

[nevcraw]

Cutler will warm up once he sees tape of the 07 Patriots.

[dogfish]

i'd love to have mr. green in blue and orange, but i have a suspicion ken whisenhunt and the cards are going to be taking a long look at him at the end of the first round. . . .

[omac]

Oh really?

Source?

I haven't seen any news, only the rumors ...

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/13/ladainian-tomlinson-has-heard-the-trade-rumors-and-hes-ignorin/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_trotter/01/14/tomlinson/index.html

One thing the SI articles mentions, and it's a very big indicator ...


The talk has hung in the air for weeks and, to date, no one from the front office has told him it's unfounded.

No matter, LT's been pretty injury prone and hasn't been running the same. I think we're done going in that route.

[Bozo Jr.]

Um...what?

Go back to Madden.

C'mon don't be rude bigshot! :rolleyes:

[Bozo Jr.]

Although the thought of Green is appealing, I doubt it due to our needs on the defensive side of the ball. I'm all for bringing in the likes of a Derrick Ward,
or another semi-established back. One that runs with power, and speed. Dumping Selvin, and Bell is a priority. If were going new, we might as well actually do it this time.

[TXBRONC]

unless he is available in round two or later I doubt we will waste a pick on a RB that high.. way to many other holes to fill.. BIG holes..

(Get your defibrillator ready.) I agree, running back isn't nearly as important to fill as the holes on the defense. In my opinion Hillis can be a solid running back for us if he's given the chance. If we can get someone to complement him I believe we could have a solid running game. To do that we don't need to running back with a high pick. We might even be able find someone through free agency.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

i'd love to have mr. green in blue and orange, but i have a suspicion ken whisenhunt and the cards are going to be taking a long look at him at the end of the first round. . . .

i dont see that happening with what they found in hightower

i def could see them going after spiller though for a little more of the young power back to go with the young speed back

id rather take Mccoy if it came down to the 2

i just know i want a beast of a back in denver again . . . i mean lets face it, 1 high draft pick will likely not turn this team around like that and this draft is deep at D and we can find good quality in the 2nd round and later IMO

a rb is needed not just to improve our run game but to help out our young QB so he doesnt need to play probowl football week in and week out in order for us to be in a game

[TXBRONC]

i'd love to have mr. green in blue and orange, but i have a suspicion ken whisenhunt and the cards are going to be taking a long look at him at the end of the first round. . . .

Even though they have been running extremely well in the playoffs isn't correct that during regular that wasn't a strength?

[dogfish]

Even though they have been running extremely well in the playoffs isn't correct that during regular that wasn't a strength?


they had one of the weakest rushing offenses in the league-- and from i'm reading, edge wants out when the season's done even though they've been using him more recently. . . as for hightower-- he's the definition of a flash in the pan. . . he's a good goal line back, and had one good game as a starter, but after that his efforts looked like:

13-22
11-35
11-21
7-7
12-32
5-20
10-17
3-3

dude had a 2.8 YPC average for the season, and only 400 total rushing yards-- no way he's the answer going forward. . . doesn't mean that they have to draft a RB with their first pick, of course-- like every team, they have other needs as well-- but given whisenhunt's history with pitt, and his stated desire before the beginning of the season to run the ball harder, i think a bull like green will be very tempting for them. . .

in any case, it's pretty early to be predicting exact draft placement-- there's certainly a solid chance that green will be available when we pick in the second-- it's just a hunch on my part that he won't. . . .

[tubby]

Mitch King late. He would be a solid DE in a 3-4.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/Mitch-King.php

[WARHORSE]

No, its not--but it's no more ridiculous than Haynesworth or Matt Cassell or Brandon Jacobs or Asomugha winding up Broncos--and you can track down veteran poster suggesting that shite as well...


Yeah. Starting right here.

Shite is what youre selling then?

[TXBRONC]

they had one of the weakest rushing offenses in the league-- and from i'm reading, edge wants out when the season's done even though they've been using him more recently. . . as for hightower-- he's the definition of a flash in the pan. . . he's a good goal line back, and had one good game as a starter, but after that his efforts looked like:

13-22
11-35
11-21
7-7
12-32
5-20
10-17
3-3

dude had a 2.8 YPC average for the season, and only 400 total rushing yards-- no way he's the answer going forward. . . doesn't mean that they have to draft a RB with their first pick, of course-- like every team, they have other needs as well-- but given whisenhunt's history with pitt, and his stated desire before the beginning of the season to run the ball harder, i think a bull like green will be very tempting for them. . .

in any case, it's pretty early to be predicting exact draft placement-- there's certainly a solid chance that green will be available when we pick in the second-- it's just a hunch on my part that he won't. . . .

A 2.8 ypc sure isn't going to get it done. At any rate, Denver going after offensive personnel (early in the draft that is) at this point in time seem more unlikely than in previous years.

[DenBronx]

greene is the stewart of this years draft. he is easily a first round prospect so if he is there in round 2 i think we need to get him.

i'm pretty sure everyone knows how i feel about him.

[Nature Boy]

If Mikey was here I'd say there is no way we'll use a 1st rounder on a RB but is McD's, who knows.

There's Mereno too but he might not make it out the 10th round. We really wont know til all the prospects go to the combine to get a better feel of their skills.

I'd rather draft a defensive player with our 1st pick. I hope Rey Muauluga is there but I highly doubt it.




http://www.trojanwire.com/images/rey-maualuga-58.jpg

He abused a O-lineman on that snap.


http://www.wearescmedia.com/Photos/2006_04_09_Spring_Huddle/images/Huddle06_0670.jpg

That's how a Middle Linebacker should look with the perfect temperament to match.


http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/sports/2006/09/21_usc_lrg.jpg

Here's killing a tailback.


http://www.trojanwire.com/Sack.jpg

Here's flying in to deliver the pain.


http://s2nblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/reymaualuga.jpg

He absolutely missiled Juice Williams(poor-man's Mike Vick) on that one.




aQmkSvZ4y18

OUCH!

.

[SOCALORADO.]

Although the thought of Green is appealing, I doubt it due to our needs on the defensive side of the ball. I'm all for bringing in the likes of a Derrick Ward,
or another semi-established back. One that runs with power, and speed. Dumping Selvin, and Bell is a priority. If were going new, we might as well actually do it this time.

Clearly you dont know who Shonn Greene is. Twice the back Ward will ever be. And you apparently would rather spend FA money on a RB when there is all kinds of super talented defensive players available? If a team wanted to fix the defensive problems wouldnt they go get PROVEN talent in FA instead of looking at the draft? I mean, DEN should still go defense in the draft, but getting Shonn Greene in the 2nd is a no-brainer!
Shonn green was the only RB in college football who rushed for over a 100 yards in EVERY game last year. (13) He is a durable, tough mofo that gets the tough yards all day. You want POWER!?!?!? SEE SHONN GREENE!!
Just what DEN NEEDS. No more injury prone RBs that cant last for more than 3games. That craps getting old.
Also, alot of you here are saying that DEN doesnt take RBs high in the draft, so getting one this year wont happen. Well, shanahan is gone, so that mindset is GONE too! Whole new ballgame.
I have no doubt that getting a RB on the 1st day will be a priority. Much easier to find a RB in the draft, and have big success with him, than say a DE or a DT or a LB in the draft. Much easier to go look at a DE or a DT in FA that is PROVEN and plug him in and have success. RB is usually the most freindly position for a rookie to have success right away in the NFL. DTs and DEs are a total mystery in the draft. The "bust factor" for them is 10 times as big as RB.
Oh and i still say take Rey Maualuga in the 1st!
Then get Shonn Greene in the 2nd. With the needs of other teams, he'll hopefully be there. Then go defense from there on out for the rest of the draft. DEN can afford to get a top notch RB to complete the offense.

[Traveler]

No back coming out this year is worth a 1st round pick IMO.

[DenBronx]

Clearly you dont know who Shonn Greene is. Twice the back Ward will ever be. And you apparently would rather spend FA money on a RB when there is all kinds of super talented defensive players available? If a team wanted to fix the defensive problems wouldnt they go get PROVEN talent in FA instead of looking at the draft? I mean, DEN should still go defense in the draft, but getting Shonn Greene in the 2nd is a no-brainer!
Shonn green was the only RB in college football who rushed for over a 100 yards in EVERY game last year. (13) He is a durable, tough mofo that gets the tough yards all day. You want POWER!?!?!? SEE SHONN GREENE!!
Just what DEN NEEDS. No more injury prone RBs that cant last for more than 3games. That craps getting old.
Also, alot of you here are saying that DEN doesnt take RBs high in the draft, so getting one this year wont happen. Well, shanahan is gone, so that mindset is GONE too! Whole new ballgame.
I have no doubt that getting a RB on the 1st day will be a priority. Much easier to find a RB in the draft, and have big success with him, than say a DE or a DT or a LB in the draft. Much easier to go look at a DE or a DT in FA that is PROVEN and plug him in and have success. RB is usually the most freindly position for a rookie to have success right away in the NFL. DTs and DEs are a total mystery in the draft. The "bust factor" for them is 10 times as big as RB.
Oh and i still say take Rey Maualuga in the 1st!
Then get Shonn Greene in the 2nd. With the needs of other teams, he'll hopefully be there. Then go defense from there on out for the rest of the draft. DEN can afford to get a top notch RB to complete the offense.


AMEN to this.

[Nature Boy]

No back coming out this year is worth a 1st round pick IMO.


I think Knoshawn Mereno is. That kid is good. Reminds me a little of Reggie Bush athletically, but tougher in traffic.

.

[underrated29]

I like greene too, but he is no Jon stew. Stewart is his weight, his power, but 4x as fast. And also is an excellent return man too.


First rd backs are moreno,wells,mccoy,greene. Only wells and moreno are top 15 backs imo.

[dogfish]

I like greene too, but he is no Jon stew. Stewart is his weight, his power, but 4x as fast. And also is an excellent return man too.


First rd backs are moreno,wells,mccoy,greene. Only wells and moreno are top 15 backs imo.


i dunno, homeboy. . . he's not as versatile or as straightline fast as stewart, but i think he's more powerful and tenacious picking up yards after contact. . . . IMO he's going to be a very good NFL back. . . i'd rather have him than wells or moreno. . .

[broncos4life88]

Clearly you dont know who Shonn Greene is. Twice the back Ward will ever be. And you apparently would rather spend FA money on a RB when there is all kinds of super talented defensive players available? If a team wanted to fix the defensive problems wouldnt they go get PROVEN talent in FA instead of looking at the draft? I mean, DEN should still go defense in the draft, but getting Shonn Greene in the 2nd is a no-brainer!
Shonn green was the only RB in college football who rushed for over a 100 yards in EVERY game last year. (13) He is a durable, tough mofo that gets the tough yards all day. You want POWER!?!?!? SEE SHONN GREENE!!
Just what DEN NEEDS. No more injury prone RBs that cant last for more than 3games. That craps getting old.
Also, alot of you here are saying that DEN doesnt take RBs high in the draft, so getting one this year wont happen. Well, shanahan is gone, so that mindset is GONE too! Whole new ballgame.
I have no doubt that getting a RB on the 1st day will be a priority. Much easier to find a RB in the draft, and have big success with him, than say a DE or a DT or a LB in the draft. Much easier to go look at a DE or a DT in FA that is PROVEN and plug him in and have success. RB is usually the most freindly position for a rookie to have success right away in the NFL. DTs and DEs are a total mystery in the draft. The "bust factor" for them is 10 times as big as RB.
Oh and i still say take Rey Maualuga in the 1st!
Then get Shonn Greene in the 2nd. With the needs of other teams, he'll hopefully be there. Then go defense from there on out for the rest of the draft. DEN can afford to get a top notch RB to complete the offense.

clearly you know what you are talking about!!! Greene is THE BEST running back to come out of the draft in the last five years IMO. He is a freak! I don't know how many of you actually got the privilege to watch all of his games this year but he took a lot of big hits and returned them as well, and through this he was never hardly scathed by any defense he faced. Penn St.?...Wisconsin? nope! try these stats-


Wisc-25 car.-217 yds.-4 TD
Penn St.-28 car.-117 yds.-2 TD
Purdue-30 car.-211 yds.-2 TD
Mich. St.-30 car.-157 yds.- only game w/out TD this year!!

I've done my research and have watched him all year I KNOW for a fact that he would fit in perfectly the first year with any offense he plays in except coming out of the backfield and catching (should've stayed for another year to work on this...oh well). Still even in that style offense he could work perfectly as a change of pace back. :coffee:

[Thnikkaman]

I would not be disappointed if we picked up Greene with the 12th pick. Even if we are running Greene and Hilis in RBBC I believe we would keep even the best defenses on the field for huge chunks of the game.

That, and it would be nice to see all of the Nate Kaeding fans wearing blue and orange instead of powder blue.

[broncos4life88]

That, and it would be nice to see all of the Nate Kaeding fans wearing blue and orange instead of powder blue.

True That!!:salute:

[lex]

greene is the stewart of this years draft. he is easily a first round prospect so if he is there in round 2 i think we need to get him.

i'm pretty sure everyone knows how i feel about him.

I dont think he is nearly as fast as Stewart. And that might actually hurt him in the 2nd. If he runs a 4.6 at the combine, he could slide.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Greene also played against shitty defenses of the Big 10, keep that in mind. He is a good prospect, but the best in the past five years? Hardly.

[lex]

Greene also played against shitty defenses of the Big 10, keep that in mind. He is a good prospect, but the best in the past five years? Hardly.


You gotta give him credit though. S. Carolina had a pretty stout defense for most of the season...and its not as if Iowa's QB sets the world on fire either. But youre right. He's probably not even "the best" prospect this year, let alone the last 5.

[Nature Boy]

But we have Selvin Young who will get us 2000yrds next season. We don't need to draft a RB in the 1st.

.

[underrated29]

HES not worth the 12th rd pick, even without all our needs defense.

[Nature Boy]

aQmkSvZ4y18

another and better video on Rey's hit on Juice Williams.

[broncos4life88]

Greene also played against shitty defenses of the Big 10, keep that in mind. He is a good prospect, but the best in the past five years? Hardly.

And what proof is there that the Big Ten has the "shitty defenses"? Look at Lesean McCoy, the Big East is only known for one thing and that is basketball, and South Carolina? SEC defenses are the strongest out there.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Greene is very good. His consistency is most impressive...100 yards every game. That includes games vs So Caro and Penn State.

[DenBronx]

HES not worth the 12th rd pick, even without all our needs defense.

dont worry, he wont be going in the first. he was scouted as a 3rd round pick before the bowl game and with his 4 td performance he barreled his way into a 2nd round prospect. if he runs a 4.5 or 4.6 i'll still be happy with him.

didnt terrell davis run a 4.6? i think that caused him to slip into the 2nd day of the draft. his game speed is what really mattered. greene i think is very simular to davis.

[Ziggy]

dont worry, he wont be going in the first. he was scouted as a 3rd round pick before the bowl game and with his 4 td performance he barreled his way into a 2nd round prospect. if he runs a 4.5 or 4.6 i'll still be happy with him.

didnt terrell davis run a 4.6? i think that caused him to slip into the 2nd day of the draft. his game speed is what really mattered. greene i think is very simular to davis.


TD's 40 times, injury history, and lack of starts at Georgia all dropped him down the draft boards. When Denver drafted him, most people didn't even know who he was.

[atwater27]

Hey everyone I was just wondering what everybody thought about the chances of Denver drafting Greene-Machine in the draft? Since I am from Iowa and already a huge fan of the man I think he is really the only choice out there in the draft for a consistent runner. He obviously proved this with a hundred yards every game and racking up twenty touchdowns. From what I have learned no one is really expecting him to go very early and with our current selection at twelth we have an excellent chance at receiving him via the draft. So whats the chances? :salute:

If we sign Albert Haynesworth, Jonathan Vilma and a decent free agent safety, then we can draft a running back high. Otherwise forget about it. (If we want to have a winning season in the foreseeable future)

[Cutler6MVP]

If we take any offense in the draft Mcdaniels should be fired. All 10 picks or whatever we have need to be spent on defense. Sign ward for a RB and spend the rest of the money on defense.

[Superchop 7]

If they take a running back early I will slap the ***** out of McKid.

WE HAVE TALENTED RB'S ON THE ROSTER !!!

We DON'T have talent on the defensive side of the ball.

Also look at McKids offense.....it's a "throwing" offense, RB will never carry the load anyways.

We need to draft "starters" at linebacker and safety out of this draft.

We need to open the "checkbook" on d-line.

[Fan in Exile]

If we take any offense in the draft Mcdaniels should be fired. All 10 picks or whatever we have need to be spent on defense. Sign ward for a RB and spend the rest of the money on defense.

I think we've got to get a C/G in the draft. Other than that I would agree with you.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

And what proof is there that the Big Ten has the "shitty defenses"? Look at Lesean McCoy, the Big East is only known for one thing and that is basketball, and South Carolina? SEC defenses are the strongest out there.

Um, what proof? Did you miss the Big 10 college football season this year? Good grief. Your post gets a big fat F.

[turftoad]

If they take a running back early I will slap the ***** out of McKid.

WE HAVE TALENTED RB'S ON THE ROSTER !!!

We DON'T have talent on the defensive side of the ball.

Also look at McKids offense.....it's a "throwing" offense, RB will never carry the load anyways.

We need to draft "starters" at linebacker and safety out of this draft.

We need to open the "checkbook" on d-line.

Agreed................... 100%.

[Nomad]

If they take a running back early I will slap the ***** out of McKid.

WE HAVE TALENTED RB'S ON THE ROSTER !!!

We DON'T have talent on the defensive side of the ball.

Also look at McKids offense.....it's a "throwing" offense, RB will never carry the load anyways.

We need to draft "starters" at linebacker and safety out of this draft.

We need to open the "checkbook" on d-line.


I would agree with you as well! Looking at the roster this year, conditioning was an issue maybe this year will be different and Denver can give Torrain, Hillis, and whoever else they keep a chance. I believe Pittman did a fine job when he played and they put him on IR too soon because he was healthy the last 3 or 4 games of the season. Defense is the key!!!

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Talented running backs on the roster? Are you kidding? LMAO.

[turftoad]

Talented running backs on the roster? Are you kidding? LMAO.

More talent than at the LB and Saftey spots. Don't forget, our wonderful "D" ranked 30th.

[CoachChaz]

I dont understand why most people are so hateful of Tatum

[TXBRONC]

If we take any offense in the draft Mcdaniels should be fired. All 10 picks or whatever we have need to be spent on defense. Sign ward for a RB and spend the rest of the money on defense.

I don't think ignoring the offense completely is the right way to go. We can still use another quality receiver, and as JR pointed out elsewhere it would hurt to drat another center/guard because Hamilton and Weigmann will not be around forever. We can't bank on signing Ward nor should we expect McDaniels to make a play for him in my opinion. Let's also keep in mind that Goodman the last word on choosing personnel.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

More talent than at the LB and Saftey spots. Don't forget, our wonderful "D" ranked 30th.

You keep making these points without any justifications behind them. Denver has a wealth of money invested in the linebacker position, and we have some "talented" players there. Denver, if they do go to the 3-4 will have options with Crowder, Moss and Dumervil at outside linebacker too look at for as well. Safety, we don't have much talent -- but as I mentioned in other threads safety is a position that is not drafted highly in the first place, and we can get a much talented player than who we have at that position without having to use a high selection.

I don't understand this ultimatum you and many people keep bringing up. It is such a false dilemma. With free agency and the draft, Denver has a myriad of ways to get help on both sides of the ball. Considering there the value is in this years draft class, I would be in favor of Denver getting a back in say the second or third round as long as the right player is there.

That is one selection out of nine, and plus we have money to spare in free agency. The people Denver has in their running back stable were low-round players, oft-injured or undrafted. With Shanahan being gone, I really do think the preference we have on high backs will change. Being an offensive minded guy, I think McDaniels will have sincere interest in upgrading the Broncos tailback roster.

We have some talent there, but it isn't proven talent or talent that ever showed consistency at any point in the year. Getting a running back in the draft doesn't make this so either -- but I'd really like to have a stud running back (hopefully) to compliment Jay and the rest of the offense. We're great almost everywhere else (could use another OL on the interior) -- so why not try and make running back special too?

One pick out of nine, and I'm guessing we'll try and acquire more as well. Don't act like Denver can't get a running back and address their other needs as well. If that is your prerogative, fine -- but it's awfully preposterous. I really hope that one-sided mentality dies before draft time. If I have to read any more of that before April, I'm gonna go nuts.

[CoachChaz]

I have to disagree with the talent assumption at LB.

Moss and Dumer and HUGE question marks. There is no way we can assume they'll be able to adjust to that position and in realuty the odds are against them doing so.

DJ, IMO, is simply not suited for the 3-4. He can be serviceable at any LB spot, but at the end of the day, he is what he is...and that isnt a MLB by any means.

Larsen is another unproven factor. he played adequately a few times, but he has no speed and there is no guarantee he will be very good...especially in a 3-4.

So, aside from DJ, everything is an unknown. Personally, I think the LB spot is where the FA money should go primarily. They can draft a Maualuga and assume he'll do well there, but with what's on the roster right now...I just dont know it will work.

[turftoad]

You keep making these points without any justifications behind them. Denver has a wealth of money invested in the linebacker position, and we have some "talented" players there. Denver, if they do go to the 3-4 will have options with Crowder, Moss and Dumervil at outside linebacker too look at for as well. Safety, we don't have much talent -- but as I mentioned in other threads safety is a position that is not drafted highly in the first place, and we can get a much talented player than who we have at that position without having to use a high selection.

I don't understand this ultimatum you and many people keep bringing up. It is such a false dilemma. With free agency and the draft, Denver has a myriad of ways to get help on both sides of the ball. Considering there the value is in this years draft class, I would be in favor of Denver getting a back in say the second or third round as long as the right player is there.

That is one selection out of nine, and plus we have money to spare in free agency. The people Denver has in their running back stable were low-round players, oft-injured or undrafted. With Shanahan being gone, I really do think the preference we have on high backs will change. Being an offensive minded guy, I think McDaniels will have sincere interest in upgrading the Broncos tailback roster.

We have some talent there, but it isn't proven talent or talent that ever showed consistency at any point in the year. Getting a running back in the draft doesn't make this so either -- but I'd really like to have a stud running back (hopefully) to compliment Jay and the rest of the offense. We're great almost everywhere else (could use another OL on the interior) -- so why not try and make running back special too?

One pick out of nine, and I'm guessing we'll try and acquire more as well. Don't act like Denver can't get a running back and address their other needs as well. If that is your prerogative, fine -- but it's awfully preposterous. I really hope that one-sided mentality dies before draft time. If I have to read any more of that before April, I'm gonna go nuts.

Point is that our defense was 30th, yep, 30th in the league. We need playmakers there. Not just guys to fill a spot. Most playmakers go early in the draft.
You make it sound like all of our 9 picks are going to be playmakers. Not likley. After the 3rd round it's a crap shoot.
I agree, if the right RB is there in the 3rd, take him. I just think we need to take some playmaking defenders in the first couple of rounds. So...... go nuts. ;)

[Nature Boy]

I dont understand why most people are so hateful of Tatum


I think it's just the "cool" thing to do. Most people here don't have their own opinion. They just follow what their forum buddy thinks and they just go with the flow.

Forbid if they made up their own opinion and should someone disagree with them, they would be mortified or something.

.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Okay, so if our defense is ranked 30th in the league you think a few rookies early on are going to change things immediately? Yes, I want to see us draft defensive early and often (for a myriad) of reasons, but Denver also should look at solid 3-4 fits through free agency as well. And no, I am not making it sound like all our picks are going to be playmakers. Nice try on justifying your faulty logic though. Oh, and Coach -- yes there are questions (and I've brought them up many times on the board) regarding the players I mentioned as OLB fits in a 3-4.

[turftoad]

Okay, so if our defense is ranked 30th in the league you think a few rookies early on are going to change things immediately? Yes, I want to see us draft defensive early and often (for a myriad) of reasons, but Denver also should look at solid 3-4 fits through free agency as well. And no, I am not making it sound like all our picks are going to be playmakers. Nice try on justifying your faulty logic though. Oh, and Coach -- yes there are questions (and I've brought them up many times on the board) regarding the players I mentioned as OLB fits in a 3-4.

What makes my logic faulty and yours not? It's my opnion. Your know it all attitude/opinion isn't always right. Just cuz you think it's so doesn't make it so. I think you are incabable of having a discussion/debate without throwing in a jab in every post you make. That's really to bad.

If we draft Rey in the first and the best saftey available in the second, you bet they could change thing immediately.

It's still up in the air rather we go 3-4 or not. Eventually we probably will. But....... we need to get the players to do so and that may take a couple of years.
RB of course would be the sexy pick however, our offense seemed to move the ball pretty well. Our defense didn't stop anyone.
I do agree that we could use a stud back but it's not the most important need at this point.

Oh, and either Rey or the best available saftey could play in either scheme.

[Nature Boy]

Okay, so if our defense is ranked 30th in the league you think a few rookies early on are going to change things immediately? Yes, I want to see us draft defensive early and often (for a myriad) of reasons, but Denver also should look at solid 3-4 fits through free agency as well. And no, I am not making it sound like all our picks are going to be playmakers. Nice try on justifying your faulty logic though. Oh, and Coach -- yes there are questions (and I've brought them up many times on the board) regarding the players I mentioned as OLB fits in a 3-4.


What makes my logic faulty and yours not? It's my opnion. Your know it all attitude/opinion isn't always right. Just cuz you think it's so doesn't make it so.

If we draft Rey in the first and the best saftey available in the second, you bet they could change thing immediately.

It's still up in the air rather we go 3-4 or not. Eventually we probably will. But....... we need to get the players to do so and that may take a couple of years.
RB of course would be the sexy pick however, our offense seemed to move the ball pretty well. Our defense didn't stop anyone.
I do agree that we could use a stud back but it's not the most important need at this point.

Oh, and either Rey or the best available saftey could play in either scheme.


Both you 2 have good points but I believe we should address the glaring problem in Denver and that is defense thru both free agency and the draft.

I believe 1 of our IR RBs will pan out and if not, a RBBC will suffice. I hope McD leaves the Offense alone, particularly our Zone Blocking run game with some tweaks of his own in the passing which is his specialty.

But if we can get Derrick Ward, why not. We need all the help we can get on both sides of the ball. The Broncos don't have a true power running back to get the tough short yardages, especially in the red zone when defenses clamp down for every inch.

.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Calling your logic faulty isn't a jab, it is the truth. You misrepresented my argument and didn't justify yours.

You say Denver can't afford to draft a running back early because of our defensive needs. Um, hello? If Denver ends up getting a few solid defensive contributors through free agency (which they'd be wise to do) -- they could certainly afford to get a running back in the draft. The money and picks are there. To act like they aren't is foolish. [Denver could also get a running back through free agency as well.]

Ball control is just as important as doing well on the defensive side of the ball. You've proposed the ultimatum that Denver cannot afford to look for a back early. Well, that is one I certainly disagree with considering all the things I've mentioned.

The opportunities are available, so I don't know why you act like they aren't.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

My argument has been that we can address both needs on offense and defense through the avenues provided. It really is that simple. Some people feel otherwise. Their loss.

[underrated29]

Both you 2 have good points but I believe we should address the glaring problem in Denver and that is defense thru both free agency and the draft.

I believe 1 of our IR RBs will pan out and if not, a RBBC will suffice. I hope McD leaves the Offense alone, particularly our Zone Blocking run game with some tweaks of his own in the passing which is his specialty.

But if we can get Derrick Ward, why not. We need all the help we can get on both sides of the ball. The Broncos don't have a true power running back to get the tough short yardages, especially in the red zone when defenses clamp down for every inch.

.


I agree with almost everything you just said!!!!!

I am not super high on ward, but I would not turn him down either.

[turftoad]

Calling your logic faulty isn't a jab, it is the truth. You misrepresented my argument and didn't justify yours.

You say Denver can't afford to draft a running back early because of our defensive needs. Um, hello? If Denver ends up getting a few solid defensive contributors through free agency (which they'd be wise to do) -- they could certainly afford to get a running back in the draft. The money and picks are there. To act like they aren't is foolish. [Denver could also get a running back through free agency as well.]

Ball control is just as important as doing well on the defensive side of the ball. You've proposed the ultimatum that Denver cannot afford to look for a back early. Well, that is one I certainly disagree with considering all the things I've mentioned.

The opportunities are available, so I don't know why you act like they aren't.

It's hard to have a ball controll offense when your defense is giving up megga points forcing your offense to play catch up all the time.
I never said I was against bringing in a RB.
I think we can all agree that our defense sucks. We need playmakers plain and simple. Most playmakers come early in the draft. We need more than A FEW. Yes, I understand that we can get some players in FA but at what cost?
The Boss's, Niko.s, McCrees, Manuals, etc.. etc.. proved that it doesn't work to bring in journeymen.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

That is why you sign players who fit the system and aren't journeymen if you have a chance -- such as a Karlos Dansby and you don't go after turd players like Boss Bailey and Niko Koutivides.

[turftoad]

My argument has been that we can address both needs on offense and defense through the avenues provided. It really is that simple. Some people feel otherwise. Their loss.

I agree with you Dream.
Problem is, there is only so much $$ and so many 1st through 3rd round draft picks to bring in playmakers on either side of the ball.
I don't coun't rounds 4-7 to be playmaker matterial. Yeah, there are some exceptions but those picks are still more of a crap shoot than rounds 1-3.

[turftoad]

That is why you sign players who fit the system and aren't journeymen if you have a chance -- such as a Karlos Dansby and you don't go after turd players like Boss Bailey and Niko Koutivides.

How many Karlos Dansby's are we going to be able to afford.
One, maybe two. OK, then you have your first 3 rounds. You hope those players will be able to start and make a difference. That gives us 5 new good players total.
We need at least 5 new good players on defense to make us even respectalbe.

[broncofaninfla]

I have to disagree with the talent assumption at LB.

Moss and Dumer and HUGE question marks. There is no way we can assume they'll be able to adjust to that position and in realuty the odds are against them doing so.

DJ, IMO, is simply not suited for the 3-4. He can be serviceable at any LB spot, but at the end of the day, he is what he is...and that isnt a MLB by any means.

Larsen is another unproven factor. he played adequately a few times, but he has no speed and there is no guarantee he will be very good...especially in a 3-4.

So, aside from DJ, everything is an unknown. Personally, I think the LB spot is where the FA money should go primarily. They can draft a Maualuga and assume he'll do well there, but with what's on the roster right now...I just dont know it will work.

I agree with you on Moss and Doom being huge question marks but diagree with you on DJ and Larsen not being able to play the ILB spots. I really think both would be solid there. Maybe not stars but solid none the less. When we drafted Spencer I saw his 40 time and thought, wasted pick but then I saw his football speed and saw a lot of potential. I found this scouting report on him and it pretty much echos what I see in the kid:

"Intense defender with a great head for the ball. Quickly reads the action, disciplined with assignments, and aggressive in all aspects of the game. Displays speed in pursuit, quick out to the flanks, and plays with a lot of explosion. Forceful up the field filling gaps in run defense. Possesses a terrific straight-line burst of speed. Efficient, takes good angles to the action, and sacrifices his body to make the tackle. Plays faster than his 40 time."

[turftoad]

I agree with you on Moss and Doom being huge question marks but diagree with you on DJ and Larsen not being able to play the ILB spots. I really think both would be solid there. Maybe not stars but solid none the less. When we drafted Spencer I saw his 40 time and thought, wasted pick but then I saw his football speed and saw a lot of potential. I found this scouting report on him and it pretty much echos what I see in the kid:

"Intense defender with a great head for the ball. Quickly reads the action, disciplined with assignments, and aggressive in all aspects of the game. Displays speed in pursuit, quick out to the flanks, and plays with a lot of explosion. Forceful up the field filling gaps in run defense. Possesses a terrific straight-line burst of speed. Efficient, takes good angles to the action, and sacrifices his body to make the tackle. Plays faster than his 40 time."

Well lets hope that MickyD keeps him there and doesn't trying guys at positions they haven't played since high school. :D

[Foochacho]

I can't wait to see what aldridge can do. Hopefully he can play a sproles type role.

We have alot of options at rb and another year of rbbc wouldn't be a bad thing. If we do draft a high rb I won't be dissapointed but we can manage without. If we do go O in an early round I would rather get a center. I think we can wait another year to see if we should ditch our group of rb's and get a stud.

Tatum, Hillis, and Torain could be a lethal group of backs. But Torain probally won't make it through camp healthy. Who knows though romonoski is gonna juice them all up real good and make them beast before next season starts.

[Nature Boy]

I agree with almost everything you just said!!!!!

I am not super high on ward, but I would not turn him down either.


Ward is tougher between the tackles than any of the current RBs we have right now sitting on IR. Wards runs hard and tough. Reminds me a bit of Ruben Droughns, but a little bit faster and shiftier.

What ever happened to Ruben? It seems he's not getting a real work. Get him into spring camp.

.

[CoachChaz]

I agree with you on Moss and Doom being huge question marks but diagree with you on DJ and Larsen not being able to play the ILB spots. I really think both would be solid there. Maybe not stars but solid none the less. When we drafted Spencer I saw his 40 time and thought, wasted pick but then I saw his football speed and saw a lot of potential. I found this scouting report on him and it pretty much echos what I see in the kid:

"Intense defender with a great head for the ball. Quickly reads the action, disciplined with assignments, and aggressive in all aspects of the game. Displays speed in pursuit, quick out to the flanks, and plays with a lot of explosion. Forceful up the field filling gaps in run defense. Possesses a terrific straight-line burst of speed. Efficient, takes good angles to the action, and sacrifices his body to make the tackle. Plays faster than his 40 time."

DJ was adequate as an inside guy and I really need to see more out of Larsen before Im going to assume he is the answer there.

[Nature Boy]

I agree with you on Moss and Doom being huge question marks but diagree with you on DJ and Larsen not being able to play the ILB spots. I really think both would be solid there. Maybe not stars but solid none the less. When we drafted Spencer I saw his 40 time and thought, wasted pick but then I saw his football speed and saw a lot of potential. I found this scouting report on him and it pretty much echos what I see in the kid:

"Intense defender with a great head for the ball. Quickly reads the action, disciplined with assignments, and aggressive in all aspects of the game. Displays speed in pursuit, quick out to the flanks, and plays with a lot of explosion. Forceful up the field filling gaps in run defense. Possesses a terrific straight-line burst of speed. Efficient, takes good angles to the action, and sacrifices his body to make the tackle. Plays faster than his 40 time."


Larsen is not the athlete DJ is and he hasn't shown anybody anything yet so I'm not gonna call him the next Teddy Bruschi but if Larsen has 1/2 the football instinct and football IQ as Bruschi, he'll make it in the NFL.

I really would like to see DJ playing the ILB position in a 3-4 defense. I wanna see how he'll stack up in a-b comparison to the best linebacker in the NFL, Patrick "the Freak" Willis.

.

[broncofaninfla]

DJ was adequate as an inside guy and I really need to see more out of Larsen before Im going to assume he is the answer there.

I agree. I wish we would have saw more from Larsen this season. I know he was far better than Webster but is that really saying much. I have faith in him though. It's my hope that we draft/sign for the postions in which we clearly don't have the talent currently on our roster. NT, DE, S and OLB stand out to me. I'm hoping Moss can contribute at one of the OLB spots and after reading Collier's maybe Doom can have a role at DE on obvious pass rushing situations. Either way I look for a very active off season and am optimistic Denver will be improved on defense. Sure would be nice to see a team punt to us for a change rather than returning a kickoff after a score! :beer:

[dogfish]

I agree with you Dream.
Problem is, there is only so much $$ and so many 1st through 3rd round draft picks to bring in playmakers on either side of the ball.
I don't coun't rounds 4-7 to be playmaker matterial. Yeah, there are some exceptions but those picks are still more of a crap shoot than rounds 1-3.


i dunno, toad-- the goodmans have done pretty damn well producing quality talent on the second day of the draft. . . .

[Kaylore]

Taking a RB in round 1 wouldn't guarantee him to be any more durable than taking one later. Look at all the first round running backs that went down to injury last year. If you think we need a marquee back because we have a lot of role-players, that's one thing. But if you think we need to spend a first round pick on one because that will magically make them more durable, you're misinformed.

[turftoad]

Taking a RB in round 1 wouldn't guarantee him to be any more durable than taking one later. Look at all the first round running backs that went down to injury last year. If you think we need a marquee back because we have a lot of role-players, that's one thing. But if you think we need to spend a first round pick on one because that will magically make them more durable, you're misinformed.

Agreed Kaylore. Also, we have to many role type players as starters on the "D" side of the ball.

[turftoad]

Larsen is not the athlete DJ is and he hasn't shown anybody anything yet so I'm not gonna call him the next Teddy Bruschi but if Larsen has 1/2 the football instinct and football IQ as Bruschi, he'll make it in the NFL.


.

This is the whole problem here. We have to many guys that "just make it in the NFL" on our defense.
We need some studs. I'm tired of settling on that side of the ball.

[CoachChaz]

Larsen is not the athlete DJ is and he hasn't shown anybody anything yet so I'm not gonna call him the next Teddy Bruschi but if Larsen has 1/2 the football instinct and football IQ as Bruschi, he'll make it in the NFL.

I really would like to see DJ playing the ILB position in a 3-4 defense. I wanna see how he'll stack up in a-b comparison to the best linebacker in the NFL, Patrick "the Freak" Willis.
.

I have a feeling the result would be very disappointing.

[SOCALORADO.]

If they take a running back early I will slap the ***** out of McKid.

WE HAVE TALENTED RB'S ON THE ROSTER !!!
That cant run for more than 3 games without going to IR. Nice try.

We DON'T have talent on the defensive side of the ball.
Theres plenty of superstar FA defensive talent. Why waste a draft pick on a possible bust when you can get a durable, tough, RB that will come in and make an immediate impact on offense? Rookie RBs historically do better and have huge success compared to the horrid DE/DTs bust factor. Just get Suggs and Cody or another DT in FA that are PROVEN.
OJ ATOGWE
TERELL SUGGS
SHAUN CODY
ECT, ECT. DEN HAS 30 some million in cap room.
Also.. look at McKids offense it a throwing offense anyways.
[B]Right with Faulk, Jordan and Maroney till he got injured. What like NE doesnt invest in the running game??? They ran the ball for over 2200 and i believe called around 400 running plays last season. What are you talking about?!?!

We need to draft "starters" at linebacker and safety out of this draft.
Or you can just SIGN a starter AND! draft them in this draft!!! Hows that sound?!?!! Terrell Suggs solves a HUGE piece of the puzzle, and i am for drafting REY REY in the 1st. One pick on a solid RB that will carry the load all season, and be the true #1 DEN has been sorely missing is not gonna kill the draft. Relax.
We need to open the "checkbook" on d-line.
Sounds good. Or you can draft them too! Ron Brace, Dorrell Scott are two mid round HUGE prospects that could start their rookie year.



Shonn Greene would finally complete the offense and actually help the defense by chewing up long minutes and wearing down opposing offenses.
Hes young, tough, durable, nasty and alot like Emmit Smith. Hes not the fastest guy out there, but he runs with big time POWER.
Something that been missing in DEN for a damn long time.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

That isn't my argument at all Kaylore, and I am not proposing a first-round back. I think that we could get a great guy in rounds two or three to plug into our offense and make it a lot better. There will be good names in that area. I just don't see why people think we can't do both. As far as rounds and finding talent -- it's a crapshoot regardless. With positions like safety and some of the linebacker spots we need to fill in on our defense, you can get quality contributors in the middle rounds from those spots. A lot of 3-4 teams have had that sort of luck. There is value all over the draft this year so I'm not too worried.

As long as Denver spends picks on people who want to play football, have a good work ethic and fit into our identity, I think we'll be fine.

[Kaylore]

Shonn Greene would finally complete the offense and actually help the defense by chewing up long minutes and wearing down opposing offenses.
Hes young, tough, durable, nasty and alot like Emmit Smith. Hes not the fastest guy out there, but he runs with big time POWER.
Something that been missing in DEN for a damn long time.

We already have a guy like that except our guy can pass protect and has the best hands on the team unlike Greene, who has hands of stone.

[Kaylore]

That isn't my argument at all Kaylore, and I am not proposing a first-round back. I think that we could get a great guy in rounds two or three to plug into our offense and make it a lot better. There will be good names in that area. I just don't see why people think we can't do both. As far as rounds and finding talent -- it's a crapshoot regardless. With positions like safety and some of the linebacker spots we need to fill in on our defense, you can get quality contributors in the middle rounds from those spots. A lot of 3-4 teams have had that sort of luck. There is value all over the draft this year so I'm not too worried.

As long as Denver spends picks on people who want to play football, have a good work ethic and fit into our identity, I think we'll be fine.

I was mostly speaking to Broncos4life88 who suggested a higher pick would bring a more durable back. We all know that's not true, which was my point. I'm not against drafting a back, but we should put a premium on defense and the back we bring in should compliment what we have. Certainly our first two draft picks should be for defense unless we can't find one that works for where we're at. (BPA, as always).

[SOCALORADO.]

We already have a guy like that except our guy can pass protect and has the best hands on the team unlike Greene, who has hands of stone.

Keep telling yourself that. HE cant run for an entire season, and he isnt a RB to begin with. He a FB, and thats what he does best. I like him as a change of pace guy occasionally, but sorry, he is BEYOND Slow, and doesnt have the ability to pass protect, so hopefully DEN FINALLY gets a true stud to run the ball. I would just LOVE to see DEN for once use their players drafted in the positions they are supposed to play! If only Larsen could play MLB for more than a series without have to jump to FB would be great.

[MOtorboat]

Keep telling yourself that. HE cant run for an entire season, and he isnt a RB to begin with. He a FB, and thats what he does best. I like him as a change of pace guy occasionally, but sorry, he is BEYOND Slow, and doesnt have the ability to pass protect, so hopefully DEN FINALLY gets a true stud to run the ball. I would just LOVE to see DEN for once use their players drafted in the positions they are supposed to play! If only Larsen could play MLB for more than a series without have to jump to FB would be great.

He was a RB who moonlighted as a FB at Arkansas for the last two years because Houston Nutt recruited Darren McFadden and Felix Jones during his sophomore year, and Nutt realized he had to keep him on the field. Am I convinced he's the answer? No. But, he is a RB.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I was mostly speaking to Broncos4life88 who suggested a higher pick would bring a more durable back. We all know that's not true, which was my point. I'm not against drafting a back, but we should put a premium on defense and the back we bring in should compliment what we have. Certainly our first two draft picks should be for defense unless we can't find one that works for where we're at. (BPA, as always).

Ah, yeah. I see where you're coming from. And yes, I'd like to see our first picks go defensively as well, but say we got a few more picks somehow (here me and SoCal are dreaming already) -- and could take advantage of the value that's there -- I'd be stoked.

There will be solid RB value well into round four, it isn't something I want to see address in round one, but hey -- if Denver is sitting in round two and there's a RB like a LeSean McCoy that they have valued as a late-first rounder -- but the next best defensive player (say a DL/LB) is a second-round grade, I'd expect them to consider all options; and with how the Goodman's have played ball lately -- I think they've done it very well.

I guess the only beef I have is with the people who don't think we can address both the offense and defensive side of the ball. Not every pick will pan out, and this is going to take a while to rebuild the defense, IMHO. We need to address it early and as often as possible. However, if we have a chance to upgrade the interior OL (OG/C) and could get another back or receiver/returner somewhere -- why not?

I expect something like a 6 defensive player pick draft and a 3 pick offensive player draft if we just stick with 9 picks. Who knows? All I just want is for this team to have an identity and a good plan going into this off-season. It is paramount.

[SOCALORADO.]

He was a RB who moonlighted as a FB at Arkansas for the last two years because Houston Nutt recruited Darren McFadden and Felix Jones during his sophomore year, and Nutt realized he had to keep him on the field. Am I convinced he's the answer? No. But, he is a RB.

WTF?!?!?! He was the FB. And thats what he is. I love the fact that he came out and ran the football straight ahead........cause that about all he can do.
Right, yeah, Houston used him more than McFadden and Felix. Right, sure.
I like the guy, really i do, but he isnt the answer, and its obvious.
None of the guys currently on the team are.

[Slick]

This defense will not be resurrected in one off-season. No way. Using the entire draft to do so would be idiotic IMO.

We got Jay a franchise LT last year, if we get him a stud at RB, it will benefit us on both sides of the ball. I don't care how they do it, FA, draft, whatever. I will not be happy if they stay with the status quo at RB.

[studbucket]

We already have a guy like that except our guy can pass protect and has the best hands on the team unlike Greene, who has hands of stone.

For what it's worth, Greene does not have hands of stone. Iowa simply just doesn't throw the ball to its halfbacks. His statistics are not indicative of an inability to catch the ball, rather, they are such for 2 main reasons:

1) Iowa does not pass to its halfbacks often, preferring them to be part of play-action or in the backfield blocking.

2) On third and longs, he was sometimes replaced by the speedier Jewel Hampton.

You guys can go back to arguing, I just felt like clearing this up. How good his hands are remains a question, and it's something that we frankly don't know.

[Lonestar]

More talent than at the LB and Saftey spots. Don't forget, our wonderful "D" ranked 30th.


remember also that many folks believed everything mikey told them hook line a snicker..

Now some rats are deserting that sunk ship

[MOtorboat]

WTF?!?!?! He was the FB. And thats what he is. I love the fact that he came out and ran the football straight ahead........cause that about all he can do.
Right, yeah, Houston used him more than McFadden and Felix. Right, sure.
I like the guy, really i do, but he isnt the answer, and its obvious.
None of the guys currently on the team are.

Did you even read what I wrote?

He was a RB when he was recruited to Arkansas, and they envisioned him as their power back. When Nutt recruited McFadden and Jones, he knew that he had to start them, and so, in order to keep Hillis on the field, with his size, he transformed him into an h-back type of player. Where in any of that did I say that he was used more than those two?

[MOtorboat]

WTF?!?!?! He was the FB. And thats what he is. I love the fact that he came out and ran the football straight ahead........cause that about all he can do.
Right, yeah, Houston used him more than McFadden and Felix. Right, sure.
I like the guy, really i do, but he isnt the answer, and its obvious.
None of the guys currently on the team are.

Four-Star running back out of Conway, Ar.

http://arkansas.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=17312

[studbucket]

Yeah, the Wildcat was actually made FOR Peyton Hillis from what I hear, then he just got the short end of the stick.

[CoachChaz]

Rashad Jennings...round 3...that is all

[TXBRONC]

WTF?!?!?! He was the FB. And thats what he is. I love the fact that he came out and ran the football straight ahead........cause that about all he can do.
Right, yeah, Houston used him more than McFadden and Felix. Right, sure.
I like the guy, really i do, but he isnt the answer, and its obvious.
None of the guys currently on the team are.

He was recruited as running back by Arkansas and moved to fullback. Even though he was fullback in their offense he carried the ball quite a bit considering who he had in front of him.

[Lonestar]

He was a RB who moonlighted as a FB at Arkansas for the last two years because Houston Nutt recruited Darren McFadden and Felix Jones during his sophomore year, and Nutt realized he had to keep him on the field. Am I convinced he's the answer? No. But, he is a RB.

and add to the argument he has great hands.

If he can't pass protect then why was mikey trying to make a Blocking fullback out of him?

And as for being slower than slow WHO CARES, speed has not produced many +20 yard take it to the house runs since TD and poorti$$$$$ left..

Speed in this case is greatly overrated.. Really nice to have, but most of those longer runs we knew and loved so much came from great ZBS blocking and almost no one in the DBackfiled to make the tackle after they squirted through the LOS..

[MOtorboat]

and add to the argument he has great hands.

If he can't pass protect then why was mikey trying to make a Blocking fullback out of him?

And as for being slower than slow WHO CARES, speed has not produced many +20 yard take it to the house runs since TD and poorti$$$$$ left..

Speed in this case is greatly overrated.. Really nice to have, but most of those longer runs we knew and loved so much came from great ZBS blocking and almost no one in the DBackfiled to make the tackle after they squirted through the LOS..

Exactly why Arkansas felt a need to keep him on the field. They didn't keep him on the field because of his spectacular blocking. They kept him on the field, because you don't get a whole lot of playmakers weighing in at 250 pounds.

[Thnikkaman]

WTF?!?!?! He was the FB. And thats what he is. I love the fact that he came out and ran the football straight ahead while dragging 2 or 3 defenders with him........cause that about all he can do.
Right, yeah, Houston used him more than McFadden and Felix. Right, sure.
I like the guy, really i do, but he isnt the answer, and its obvious.
None of the guys currently on the team are.

Did you watch the Jets game? Did you watch any of the games he played in? No, he isn't a speed back, but that boy has power. He also has damn good hands.

[SOCALORADO.]

Did you even read what I wrote?

He was a RB when he was recruited to Arkansas, and they envisioned him as their power back. When Nutt recruited McFadden and Jones, he knew that he had to start them, and so, in order to keep Hillis on the field, with his size, he transformed him into an h-back type of player. Where in any of that did I say that he was used more than those two?

Thanks for the BIo, really. So he played RB in HS. Great Cutler played Safety in HS, and DEN really needs one, so i imagine DEN should put him at safety.
I see Hillis as a HB/FB in the mold of TE Chris Cooley in WASH, if hes used right. But as a full time back, he will not get it done. Hes BEYOND slow, can only run straight ahead, and usually keeps both hands on the football because he knows hes slow and defenders are going to try to strip him of the ball. Graet occasionally, but not what DEN needs.

[Thnikkaman]

Thanks for the BIo, really. So he played RB in HS. Great Cutler played Safety in HS, and DEN really needs one, so i imagine DEN should put him at safety.
I see Hillis as a HB/FB in the mold of TE Chris Cooley in WASH, if hes used right. But as a full time back, he will not get it done. Hes BEYOND slow, can only run straight ahead, and usually keeps both hands on the football because he knows hes slow and defenders are going to try to strip him of the ball. Graet occasionally, but not what DEN needs.

We needed him after the KC game. Did you notice how we didn't win another game after he was injured? Or how bad our running game sucked with nothing but speed guys in the backfield. Did you even watch a game this season?

Your argument holds about as much water as a colander.

[dogfish]

yea, 5 YPC just isn't the same if you get there slowly. . . .

[MOtorboat]

Thanks for the BIo, really. So he played RB in HS. Great Cutler played Safety in HS, and DEN really needs one, so i imagine DEN should put him at safety.
I see Hillis as a HB/FB in the mold of TE Chris Cooley in WASH, if hes used right. But as a full time back, he will not get it done. Hes BEYOND slow, can only run straight ahead, and usually keeps both hands on the football because he knows hes slow and defenders are going to try to strip him of the ball. Graet occasionally, but not what DEN needs.

He did run a 4.58 at the combine. That's not exactly slow.

[Lonestar]

Did you watch the Jets game? Did you watch any of the games he played in? No, he isn't a speed back, but that boy has power. He also has damn good hands.


Good post let me add..

He is fast enough after he runs over a LB and then puts a DB on the sideline.. After a while they are not real interested in mixing it up and develop short arms..

There have been a lot of moves the kid has made There was one in a sideline pass that most of our WR could not have kept inbounds for the 20+ yards he made on the play..

Does he have enough in him to carry 20+ times a game for 19 games I do not know but would like him to get the first look see in TC next year.. If he can't I have NO issues with RBBC and almost get the impression that we are not going to run first next year and only run to keep them honest.. Or 3rd or 4th and short or inside the 5 and frankly I do not see anyone I like better than Hillis for that..

[broncofaninfla]

When people question Hillis it makes me wonder if they actually watched any Denver games last year. For those who don't know, he can run, block and catch passes with teh best of them. He is a very talented football player who can play multiple postions on offense and shines in each of them. Any coach that looks at the tape will see he needs an expended role in our offense and I look for him to line up at TB, FB, TE and and I wouldn't be surprised to see him occasinally even WR. We need a RB to compliment him in the backfield but to just call him a FB is rediculous, he has way too much skill to just play FB. Mark my words... #22 Jerseys are going to be a hot item next season.

[Lonestar]

Thanks for the BIo, really. So he played RB in HS. Great Cutler played Safety in HS, and DEN really needs one, so i imagine DEN should put him at safety.
I see Hillis as a HB/FB in the mold of TE Chris Cooley in WASH, if hes used right. But as a full time back, he will not get it done. Hes BEYOND slow, can only run straight ahead, and usually keeps both hands on the football because he knows hes slow and defenders are going to try to strip him of the ball. Graet occasionally, but not what DEN needs.

have you Had a sit down with Mc KID and he told you what he is looking for?

If not that make MOST of this post totally your opinion..

Hillis can and most likely will be playing RB next year as he is the complete package and the only reason he did not play earlier was mikey had this fondness for playing baby backs.. supposedly fast but as a general rule could not break tackles.. so speed really means nothing if there are defenders on the field.

[Lonestar]

opinions like,
yahoos
everyone has one

some bigger than others.. God Bless America that we can express them..

[SOCALORADO.]

We needed him after the KC game. Did you notice how we didn't win another game after he was injured? Or how bad our running game sucked with nothing but speed guys in the backfield. Did you even watch a game this season?

Your argument holds about as much water as a colander.

I am not arguing. I am simply explaining how your love fest with a FB that will never be a full time RB is so ludicrious. Keep reaching though. Makes for solid entertainment.

[Broncospsycho77]

Hillis is a stud, and exactly what we need if we pursue a RBBC.

Finding a speedy guy is usually easier than finding the big rumbler part to the duo, and if we play the contrasting big-small style of running backs, then we can be very potent.

It's just icing on the cake that he has soft hands and can pancake any blitzing safety with ease. If we wanted, we very well could run a split back formation with Hillis on one side (as either a RB or FB to block the other dude) and a speedster on the other. Hillis is just a monster talent right now, and still plays with that chip on his shoulder that keeps him grounded.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

J. Williams and R. Jennings will be interesting options in the mid-rounds.

[CoachChaz]

I dont think anyone questions his abiliries...it's using him as a full-time tailback that is the issue. He doesnt have great speed and he prefers to run over guys. Those qualities dont exactly lead to tons of success or tenure in the NFL. Yes he had some good games, but I recall Cutler passing for a ton of yards in those games as well. In a league where you want to use the run to set up the pass...we were doing it backwards.

I'm all for using him as a compliment to a regular tailback. Give him 12-15 carries and receptions a game and he'll produce at that capacity, but a bona fide tailback is needed to complete the offense.

However...a McDaniels offense is not known to use the fullback for much more than blocking, so this all comes down to the coach's decision on if he thinks Hillis is a full-time back. If he signs or drafts a regular tailback, I suspect Hillis will spend 90% of his time on the field as a blocker

[CoachChaz]

We needed him after the KC game. Did you notice how we didn't win another game after he was injured? Or how bad our running game sucked with nothing but speed guys in the backfield. Did you even watch a game this season?

Your argument holds about as much water as a colander.

Excluding the Eddie Royal run, we ran for 321 yards in the last 3 games on only 59 carries, with 4 TD's. That's a 5.4 average. I dont know that I'd say our running game "sucked" after Hillis went down. We just couldnt use it as much due to the score.

[Lonestar]

Excluding the Eddie Royal run, we ran for 321 yards in the last 3 games on only 59 carries, with 4 TD's. That's a 5.4 average. I dont know that I'd say our running game "sucked" after Hillis went down. We just couldnt use it as much due to the score.

Eddie royale also had a 71 yarders on a end around.. Take that one out and it is more like 250 yards in 3 games then it become 4.3.. and 83 yards a game..

I realize that long runs count in but in this case it skews the average quite abit..

[Thnikkaman]

Excluding the Eddie Royal run, we ran for 321 yards in the last 3 games on only 59 carries, with 4 TD's. That's a 5.4 average. I dont know that I'd say our running game "sucked" after Hillis went down. We just couldnt use it as much due to the score.

My point being was that we didn't have a runner that was reliable. We didn't have a RB that we could keep their D on the field with. We didn't have a runner that would help us ramp up our TOP.

[CoachChaz]

Eddie royale also had a 71 yarders on a end around.. Take that one out and it is more like 250 yards in 3 games then it become 4.3.. and 83 yards a game..

I realize that long runs count in but in this case it skews the average quite abit..

Read the first 5 words in my post again.

[CoachChaz]

My point being was that we didn't have a runner that was reliable. We didn't have a RB that we could keep their D on the field with. We didn't have a runner that would help us ramp up our TOP.

...and in reality, we probably STILL wouldnt have even if Hillis was available because we were playing from behind.

[MOtorboat]

I dont think anyone questions his abiliries...it's using him as a full-time tailback that is the issue. He doesnt have great speed and he prefers to run over guys. Those qualities dont exactly lead to tons of success or tenure in the NFL. Yes he had some good games, but I recall Cutler passing for a ton of yards in those games as well. In a league where you want to use the run to set up the pass...we were doing it backwards.

I'm all for using him as a compliment to a regular tailback. Give him 12-15 carries and receptions a game and he'll produce at that capacity, but a bona fide tailback is needed to complete the offense.

However...a McDaniels offense is not known to use the fullback for much more than blocking, so this all comes down to the coach's decision on if he thinks Hillis is a full-time back. If he signs or drafts a regular tailback, I suspect Hillis will spend 90% of his time on the field as a blocker

He's an option, and if our running game looks like what I think it's going to look like, he's going to be the guy lining up next to Cutler in the shotgun, because of his hands and his size.

[MOtorboat]

Eddie royale also had a 71 yarders on a end around.. Take that one out and it is more like 250 yards in 3 games then it become 4.3.. and 83 yards a game..

I realize that long runs count in but in this case it skews the average quite abit..

Except that run happened, and that's part of the running game...still 4.3 ypc...

[Lonestar]

Read the first 5 words in my post again.

I stand corrected. thanks I read and skim through alot of Posts as a mod and sometimes this happens..

[CoachChaz]

I stand corrected. thanks I read and skim through alot of Posts as a mod and sometimes this happens..

I figured...that's why I advised

[CoachChaz]

He's an option, and if our running game looks like what I think it's going to look like, he's going to be the guy lining up next to Cutler in the shotgun, because of his hands and his size.

Which is why I repeat. Rashad Jennings...round 3

[MOtorboat]

Which is why I repeat. Rashad Jennings...round 3

I'm OK with that.

We need help on defense, some immediate starters, take a couple of guys who you think will do that on Day 1, start Day 2 out with a RB...and then imo...best player on the board after that...

[Lonestar]

Which is why I repeat. Rashad Jennings...round 3

I could care less unless they do something stupid in rounds one or two.. after day one the odds of getting a stud on D goes down quite a bit..

RB's are a dime a dozen..

[Thnikkaman]

...and in reality, we probably STILL wouldnt have even if Hillis was available because we were playing from behind.

I am not saying that Hillis should be our lone running back. But he was a valuable player. I would also argue that we would have had a better chance, and probably would have pulled out the game vs. Buffalo.

Then again, if my aunt had a package, she would be my uncle.

And at least you know what the hell you are talking about.

[turftoad]

Hillis's and the other backs yard per ave are scewed because we were passing ALL THE IME. Opponents knew that and never needed to put 8 men in the box because they needed to defend the pass.

[bcbronc]

I am not saying that Hillis should be our lone running back. But he was a valuable player. I would also argue that we would have had a better chance, and probably would have pulled out the game vs. Buffalo.

Then again, if my aunt had a package, she would be my uncle.

And at least you know what the hell you are talking about.

heck, if Pope didnt get hurt in that game we probably win.

a backfield of Hillis, Torrain, Tatum (or Young) and Aldridge isn't the worst thing in the world. sure it's not D'Angelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart, but it does have all the food groups covered, give or take Torrain's durability.

if in round 3 or later a RB is the BPA, take him. but a mid to late round pick is no more a guarantee than the players we have on the roster. all I ask, if we do take a mid to late round RB, take someone that doesn't have a ton of mileage on him and take someone who DIDN'T fall because of his injury history.

but if either of our first two picks are used at RB, I'll never eat at McD's again.

[TXBRONC]

yea, 5 YPC just isn't the same if you get there slowly. . . .

I'll be glad to take a John Riggins type running back for the spread offense.

[Elway007]

Um...what?

Go back to Madden.

+1.:D

[atwater27]

Nice try on justifying your faulty logic though. Oh, and Coach -- yes there are questions (and I've brought them up many times on the board) regarding the players I mentioned as OLB fits in a 3-4.

Guy, just because a ton of folks disagree with you does not mean they have faulty logic. Look in the mirror before you question someone else's logic.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Lol.

[atwater27]

My argument has been that we can address both needs on offense and defense through the avenues provided. It really is that simple. Some people feel otherwise. Their loss.

We are fine at RB. And if we need one, they are a dime a dozen. It would be a colossal waste to draft in the 1st day this draft.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

We are fine at RB. And if we need one, they are a dime a dozen. It would be a colossal waste to draft in the 1st day this draft.

Fine at running back. Sure. Which is why we have what, 7 guys in rehab right now? I'm sure all the peg leg's, UDFA's and low-round choices are going to be our solution like they were last year. Oh, um. Wait. Also, I'm not necessarily advocating (and not a first-round selection) but if the value is there in Round 2, why not give it a whirl? Look at the relative value in the draft. IMHO, Denver can get a stud RB in rounds 3-4. I'm looking for front seven players right now with our first two picks. It has to be done.

[atwater27]

Fine at running back. Sure. Which is why we have what, 7 guys in rehab right now? I'm sure all the peg leg's, UDFA's and low-round choices are going to be our solution like they were last year. Oh, um. Wait. Also, I'm not necessarily advocating (and not a first-round selection) but if the value is there in Round 2, why not give it a whirl? Look at the relative value in the draft. IMHO, Denver can get a stud RB in rounds 3-4. I'm looking for front seven players right now with our first two picks. It has to be done.

The offense we are about to see is pass heavy, and basically needs more than anything a goal line back and a pass catching back. The Pats won several of their Super Bowls with atrocious running backs. The cool thing about injured running backs is that they have an entire offseason to heal. Then they will be (most of them) good as new.

I agree with you about the front seven though.

[broncohead]

Clearly you dont know who Shonn Greene is. Twice the back Ward will ever be. And you apparently would rather spend FA money on a RB when there is all kinds of super talented defensive players available? If a team wanted to fix the defensive problems wouldnt they go get PROVEN talent in FA instead of looking at the draft? I mean, DEN should still go defense in the draft, but getting Shonn Greene in the 2nd is a no-brainer!
Shonn green was the only RB in college football who rushed for over a 100 yards in EVERY game last year. (13) He is a durable, tough mofo that gets the tough yards all day. You want POWER!?!?!? SEE SHONN GREENE!!
Just what DEN NEEDS. No more injury prone RBs that cant last for more than 3games. That craps getting old.
Also, alot of you here are saying that DEN doesnt take RBs high in the draft, so getting one this year wont happen. Well, shanahan is gone, so that mindset is GONE too! Whole new ballgame.
I have no doubt that getting a RB on the 1st day will be a priority. Much easier to find a RB in the draft, and have big success with him, than say a DE or a DT or a LB in the draft. Much easier to go look at a DE or a DT in FA that is PROVEN and plug him in and have success. RB is usually the most freindly position for a rookie to have success right away in the NFL. DTs and DEs are a total mystery in the draft. The "bust factor" for them is 10 times as big as RB.
Oh and i still say take Rey Maualuga in the 1st!
Then get Shonn Greene in the 2nd. With the needs of other teams, he'll hopefully be there. Then go defense from there on out for the rest of the draft. DEN can afford to get a top notch RB to complete the offense.

Thats why we should wait until our front 7 is fixed then go for a stud RB. They have such a short lifespan that when the D is top 10 getting a top RB would be a perfect time. By time our defense is ready Greene will be on his way down.

[Scarface]

The offense we are about to see is pass heavy, and basically needs more than anything a goal line back and a pass catching back. The Pats won several of their Super Bowls with atrocious running backs. The cool thing about injured running backs is that they have an entire offseason to heal. Then they will be (most of them) good as new.

I agree with you about the front seven though.

They won one with Corey Dillon powering through defenses. Who's to say that's not the type of RB McD prefers?

[atwater27]

They won one with Corey Dillon powering through defenses. Who's to say that's not the type of RB McD prefers?

They won 1 Super Bowl with Dillon. Every other bowl they had won without a back even close to his talent.

[Lonestar]

They won 1 Super Bowl with Dillon. Every other bowl they had won without a back even close to his talent.


and Corey Dillon has been on the downside of his decent career for a few years..

Just because he shreded the DEN defense for a single game record does not necessarily make him a HOF RB although mikey run defense over the years seem to do that alot..

[TXBRONC]

and Corey Dillon has been on the downside of his decent career for a few years..

Just because he shreded the DEN defense for a single game record does not necessarily make him a HOF RB although mikey run defense over the years seem to do that alot..

Is Corey still playing? :confused:

[Cugel]

Denver has a wealth of money invested in the linebacker position, and we have some "talented" players there. Denver, if they do go to the 3-4 will have options with Crowder, Moss and Dumervil at outside linebacker too look at for as well. Safety, we don't have much talent -- but as I mentioned in other threads safety is a position that is not drafted highly in the first place, and we can get a much talented player than who we have at that position without having to use a high selection.

I don't understand this ultimatum you and many people keep bringing up. It is such a false dilemma. With free agency and the draft, Denver has a myriad of ways to get help on both sides of the ball. Considering there the value is in this years draft class, I would be in favor of Denver getting a back in say the second or third round as long as the right player is there.

That is one selection out of nine, and plus we have money to spare in free agency. The people Denver has in their running back stable were low-round players, oft-injured or undrafted. With Shanahan being gone, I really do think the preference we have on high backs will change. Being an offensive minded guy, I think McDaniels will have sincere interest in upgrading the Broncos tailback roster.

We have some talent there, but it isn't proven talent or talent that ever showed consistency at any point in the year. Getting a running back in the draft doesn't make this so either -- but I'd really like to have a stud running back (hopefully) to compliment Jay and the rest of the offense. We're great almost everywhere else (could use another OL on the interior) -- so why not try and make running back special too?

One pick out of nine, and I'm guessing we'll try and acquire more as well. Don't act like Denver can't get a running back and address their other needs as well. If that is your prerogative, fine -- but it's awfully preposterous. I really hope that one-sided mentality dies before draft time. If I have to read any more of that before April, I'm gonna go nuts.

This seems to be an intelligent summation of certain opinion on these boards, but it's all wrong.

First, IF McDaniel decides to install a 3-4 he'll need ALL new DL. There's NOT ONE guy on the roster who can play NT. They'll need at least 2 on the roster.

Is it easy to find a quality NT in FA? NO! Is it easy to draft DE who can get be strong against the run and do more than just hold up blockers in a 3-4?

No. Such players tend to be taken in the first 3 rounds. Elite DL get taken in the first 10-15 picks in the first round. Last year, DL were 5 of the top 8 picks! (Chris Long #2, Glenn Dorsey #5, Vernon Gholsten #6, Sedrick Ellis #7, Derrick Harvey #8).

That's similar to the way it is every year. Bill Parcells "Big Planet Theory" -- there are only so many men on the planet big enough and athletic enough to be elite DL in the NFL and if you have a chance to draft one you better do it. Thus, after QBs, pass-rushing DTs/DEs are the most sought after players.

This is NOT a position you can usually find talent in the 4th round, the way you can with WRs (Brandon Marshall).

Of their entire roster, only Marcus Thomas might be able to move outside and play DE in a 3-4. I don't know if he can do that, but he's the only one who might have the size and strength to do it. All the rest just suck or suck & are too small & weak (like Moss/Crowder).

Since the Broncos need at least 3 new DL (whether they go to a 3-4 or not) they better draft them early.

This is in ADDITION to the players they get in FA. FAs are expensive and only last a few years (they tend to be older). Remember the Browncos? They were a stop-gap measure that lasted all of 2 years before they were gone.

Denver is going to have to do the same sort of thing this year -- get a bunch of FA DL to be starters next season. But, that can NEVER be the answer. SO, they'll need at least SIX new DL, preferrably 3 veteran FAs (one starting NT, 2 DEs for the 3-4) and 3 rookies who can learn behind the veterans and replace them starting next year.


LBs: Then LBs. Assuming (big assumption) they can move Moss & Dumervil to LB they would have 3 of the 4 LBs positions filled (with D.J.). They'd still need a stud Inside LB to go with DJ (assuming he can make the transition).

If they stay with the 4-3 they need 2 new starting LBs to go with D.J., especially a tough-mean defensive leader to play the MLB position. They can keep Winborn and Woodyard as backups, but the rest must be cut. (They aren't worth anything to any team in a trade). The lack of talent at LB is almost as severe as at the DL position and has been since the retirement of Al Wilson.

Safeties: They need 2 starting and 2 backup Safeties. All the safeties on the roster need to be cut, because they suck. Bad.

Safety is the least talented position on the entire team. At least one safety should come via the draft, maybe 2, preferrably in the 2nd or 3rd round, when some decent ones ought to be available (you don't draft a safety in the first round very often). They should seek 2 veteran FA safeties to start (which shouldn't be too hard to find).

D-Line: If they decide to remain in a 4-3, then they still need at least 3 DL. Moss & Crowder will have to be cut, but perhaps they can renegotiate DeWayne Robertson's contract to be more in line with his talent. If not, he can hit the road too.

Marcus Thomas might make a decent BACKUP at DT in the 4-3 but he's not starter material. The rest of the roster are useless crap: Kenny Peterson, Engleberger, Ekuban, Josh Mallard. Time to get rid of them all! They're the biggest reason the defense sucked the last 2 years -- zero pressure on the QB & couldn't stop the run either.

Dumervil is still limited to being a pass-rush specialist if they stay with the 4-3. That means they need a starting RDE who is actually GOOD.

CBs: They need a quality backup CB who can fill in in case of injury to Champ or Dre Bly. They could use an upgrade for Dre Bly too, but you can't have everything. If he had decent safety help and if the DL occasionally forced the QB to throw the ball in less than 5 seconds he might have a decent season. He went to the pro-bowl before with Detroit, and he's not too old. (He might be too small for today's bigger WRs, but you can't have everything all at once). Starting CBs are EXPENSIVE and the Broncos have a LOT of other needs. So, leave Dre there for one more year, and try to find a quality CB in the 3rd or 4th round or something.

When you start to add all this up you realize what a HUGE mountain the Broncos have to climb this off-season to field a defense that might be able to stop somebody.

To pretend it was Bob Slowik's fault (any more than it was Bates' fault before him) is just B.S. It's an almost total and complete LACK OF TALENT ON DEFENSE, especially the front 7!

Anybody who thinks a new scheme or DC coming in will change anything if the Broncos are starting players like Engleberger or Ekuban is living in a total world of denial. We've been down that road and it's not a pretty picture. :coffee:

Now given all these needs they damn-well better ignore offense for one season!

They can get by with the 7 RBs they have on the roster already. Not all of them should be injrued next season! If they want more, get a FA! If they absolutely need a RB, then draft one in the 6th or 7th round like usual and get on with it!

OL: Get Weigeman to come back, and you are pretty much set at OL for the year. Pick up a FA or two if you can find someone who fits the Broncos ZBS. For God's sake, DON'T change that!

If the Broncos go to a more conventional blocking scheme, they'll be competing with the entire league for the traditional road-grader OL (who also tend to go in the first round). Instead, they've been able to get good quality starting G's like Chris Kuper in the 6th round -- because they can use smaller more athletic guys other teams don't want (because they don't fit their system). Stick with what works on offense and concentrate on defense!

WR: They could use a backup WR to groom to become a slot-receiver. It's just with all the other needs they better look to FA to fill this need, just as they did in acquiring Brandon Stokely. That worked pretty well. #3 slot WRs are a dime a dozen in the NFL and you can almost always find one via FA. No need to waste a draft pick on one, no matter how promising he is!

Aside from draft busts like Moss & Crowder (assuming they can't make the transition to 3-4 OLBs) the last 3 years has been all offensive players!

TIME TO SPEND IT ALL ON DEFENSE!

I would be happy to see 9 defensive picks (as long as they drafted at least 1 and preferrably 2 DL, 1 LB, at least 1 safety, oh and a backup CB wouldn't hurt).

Bottom Line: There will be a lot of new defensive players in FA, but to be successful you have to form the core of your defense through the draft. FAs are too old, fragile and expensive to do it any other way.

Successful teams like the Steelers, Giants, Eagles and Patriots add FAs like frosting on the cake. You can't make the cake entirely out of frosting!

[broncos4life88]

I was mostly speaking to Broncos4life88 who suggested a higher pick would bring a more durable back. We all know that's not true, which was my point. (BPA, as always).

What?! Did I type that?...no I didn't! Get your facts straight before you guys start opening your mouth's. It seems most of you with the exception of some that you think you know everything...like almost you think you are part of the team or something??? I started this thread to find out about running backs, and the possibility of acquiring Shonn Greene this year in the draft...but it has turned into ten pages of (BS!!!!), PLEASE DON'T EVEN BOTHER TYPING A POST IF AIN'T BOUT SHONN GREENE OR ANOTHER RUNNING BACK!!!!:mad:

[turftoad]

What?! Did I type that?...no I didn't! Get your facts straight before you guys start opening your mouth's. It seems most of you with the exception of some that you think you know everything...like almost you think you are part of the team or something??? I started this thread to find out about running backs, and the possibility of acquiring Shonn Greene this year in the draft...but it has turned into ten pages of (BS!!!!), PLEASE DON'T EVEN BOTHER TYPING A POST IF AIN'T BOUT SHONN GREENE OR ANOTHER RUNNING BACK!!!!:mad:

We don't need a RB. :salute:

[TXBRONC]

We don't need a RB. :salute:

I wouldn't put it high on the list of priorities but if a mid round running back is a better quality player than someone on defense it wouldn't bother me to draft one.

[broncos4life88]

I wouldn't put high on the list of priorities but if a mid round running back is a better quality player than someone on defense it wouldn't bother me to draft one.

Exactly, it ain't all about what positions we need to fill...it's what positions we can fill using quality players out of the draft or FA.

Anyone hear anything more on the L.T. situation over in San Diego? I'm still hearing rumors and according to L.T. he does too, he even said that he pretty much knows he will be traded but is mad that the organization can't keep it underwraps from the media and so forth...I know it is a rather small chance that he will be traded anywhere within the AFC West or even the whole conference for that matter. Also what is with everyone thinking we will try to negotiate with Derrick Ward? Is there something I don't know? :coffee:

[TXBRONC]

Exactly, it ain't all about what positions we need to fill...it's what positions we can fill using quality players out of the draft or FA.

Anyone hear anything more on the L.T. situation over in San Diego? I'm still hearing rumors and according to L.T. he does too, he even said that he pretty much knows he will be traded but is mad that the organization can't keep it underwraps from the media and so forth...I know it is a rather small chance that he will be traded anywhere within the AFC West or even the whole conference for that matter. Also what is with everyone thinking we will try to negotiate with Derrick Ward? Is there something I don't know? :coffee:

If he's going be traded it wont be within the division that is about as close to a sure thing as you can get. Other than the three teams within the division I think bidding will be open to everyone else. It is still possible to trade within the division but price might be even higher.

[atwater27]

Just say no to L.T.

[broncos4life88]

Just say no to L.T.

Lol ok. And as far as Ward?

[atwater27]

Lol ok. And as far as Ward?

I would take Ward in a heartbeat. Ward is a beast, a goalline threat and catches the ball well. Instant starter and prototypical back for our new coach'es style of offense.

[TXBRONC]

Just say no to L.T.

If the Chargers do trade L.T. the chance of him being traded within the division are between slim and none.

[Ziggy]

I would take Ward in a heartbeat. Ward is a beast, a goalline threat and catches the ball well. Instant starter and prototypical back for our new coach'es style of offense.

I'd take Ward if he didn't want top tier RB money.

[broncos4life88]

I'd take Ward if he didn't want top tier RB money.

Yes, that is a good point

[CoachChaz]

Jacobs drove up Ward's price tag. Without him getting hurt, Ward doesnt get 1000 yards.

[broncos4life88]

Jacobs drove up Ward's price tag. Without him getting hurt, Ward doesnt get 1000 yards.

Ya, I remember when Jacob's was coming into the league and thinking he was going to be unstoppable...he has turned out rather human.

[CoachChaz]

Ya, I remember when Jacob's was coming into the league and thinking he was going to be unstoppable...he has turned out rather human.

He's probably the one back in the NFL that I would least want to tackle right now. The guys just hurts people when he runs. If he could stay healthy, he'd be a monster

[broncos4life88]

Does anybody have a complete list of all RB's who are heading into FA this year?

[CoachChaz]

Does anybody have a complete list of all RB's who are heading into FA this year?

Jacobs, Sproles, Ward, Rhodes, Maurice Morris, Ricky Williams, Arrington, Buckhalter, Evans, Rudi johnson, Lamont Jordan

[underrated29]

sproles is the most overrated back in the nfl. He is good only on end arounds and screens. He is like Q griffin- but better. Not good enough though me thinks.

[broncos4life88]

sproles is the most overrated back in the nfl. He is good only on end arounds and screens. He is like Q griffin- but better. Not good enough though me thinks.

He is super fast tho

[dogfish]

sproles is the most overrated back in the nfl. He is good only on end arounds and screens. He is like Q griffin- but better. Not good enough though me thinks.


he also has a lot of value on special teams. . . .

[Northman]

Sproles isnt a everydown back but he is a difference maker which would be a nice addition to this team.

[Medford Bronco]

he also has a lot of value on special teams. . . .

maybe he could break our drought of no kickoff returns for tds since 1998

[Lonestar]

Sproles isnt a everydown back but he is a difference maker which would be a nice addition to this team.

since when have we had an every down back?

And his contributions on ST would be enormous if we could ever get the blocking scheme down..

But he will not be cheap..

[underrated29]

on special teams he is a freaking monster. As a runningback he is waaaaayy to much overhyped and will disappoint some team if they try to use him as their primary back.

[turftoad]

Lets just hope that Anthony Alridge = Sproles, then we don't have to worry about caughing up big bucks.
They are about the same size and speed. Just don't know about ability.

[underrated29]

Lets just hope that Anthony Alridge = Sproles, then we don't have to worry about caughing up big bucks.
They are about the same size and speed. Just don't know about ability.



Lets hope so. From what i have seen sproles runs with quite a bit more power than alridge did, but then again we only got a look at the guy for half a qtr.

[TXBRONC]

Lets just hope that Anthony Alridge = Sproles, then we don't have to worry about caughing up big bucks.
They are about the same size and speed. Just don't know about ability.

Thanks for the reminder Turf. :beer:

Alridge could be our version of Sproles.

[broncos4life88]

We don't need Aldridge, he is another inconsistent back that is injury prone. Sproles would light up our ST, but is not worth the price tag.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Alridge is half the prospect Sproles as. Good grief.

[LRtagger]

We don't need Aldridge, he is another inconsistent back that is injury prone. Sproles would light up our ST, but is not worth the price tag.

What in he world are you basing this on? He was put on IR because there was no room on the roster for him and we didn want to put him on the PS because he would have gotten picked up by someone. He isnt an everydown back, but to say he is inconsistent is totally off base.

[Northman]

since when have we had an every down back?

And his contributions on ST would be enormous if we could ever get the blocking scheme down..

But he will not be cheap..


Ive never said that we did. I was actually giving Sproles kudos. :confused:

[broncos4life88]

What in he world are you basing this on? He was put on IR because there was no room on the roster for him and we didn want to put him on the PS because he would have gotten picked up by someone. He isnt an everydown back, but to say he is inconsistent is totally off base.

If he was better than he is we would've made room for him!

[LRtagger]

If he was better than he is we would've made room for him!

The guy had only been a RB for two years prior to joining the team...and we drafted Eddie to return kicks. Mike probably thought he wasnt ready to be on the roster as a RB, doesn't mean he cant get some carries, catch some passes, and return kicks for us.

Obviously they saw something in him to put him on IR and didnt want to risk losing him off the PS.

Not saying he is going to be a Sproles for us, but he has the speed and agility to be a quality player. What have you seen out of him that would make you think otherwise? He ran very good in the preseason.

[broncos4life88]

I guess I can't quite judge his skills so sorry, but IMO if he was as good as you think he is wouldn't we have seen more?

[LRtagger]

Not necessarily. Mike might have felt more comfortable with Hall and Young, but at this point I would rather have Alridge over both of them on the 2009 roster. I dont want to see Hall returning kicks and I would prefer Eddie not return punts.

You have to remember this is the same staff that started Webster at MLB, put Larsen at FB, left Barrett on the PS while starting McCree and Manuel, etc etc etc.

I'll let McD judge the talent now, but I would love to see Quick 6 returning kicks for us next year, getting 3-4 carries and catching screen passes.

[broncos4life88]

Hall and Young shouldn't ever come back!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I agree w/ that. I could live w/ Selvin returning, but we can do better.

[TXBRONC]

Not necessarily. Mike might have felt more comfortable with Hall and Young, but at this point I would rather have Alridge over both of them on the 2009 roster. I dont want to see Hall returning kicks and I would prefer Eddie not return punts.

You have to remember this is the same staff that started Webster at MLB, put Larsen at FB, left Barrett on the PS while starting McCree and Manuel, etc etc etc.

I'll let McD judge the talent now, but I would love to see Quick 6 returning kicks for us next year, getting 3-4 carries and catching screen passes.

LR did you catch see the Senior Bowl practice today? I got to watch Raji and looked very good and they gave props to Connor Barwin, however I didn't get to see him practice.

[atwater27]

Hall and Young shouldn't ever come back!

What's with the Hall and Young hate? Christ, look at their career average. When they play they generally produces.

[MOtorboat]

What's with the Hall and Young hate? Christ, look at their career average. When they play they generally produces.

Well, thus far, they've been kind of brittle.

But, it happens every year at this time. People always fall in love with some back out of college and want us to take him.

[broncos4life88]

But, it happens every year at this time. People always fall in love with some back out of college and want us to take him.

Are you using me as a reference to make your point? Because I ain't nothing like what you guys have had on here before. Before this season I really didn't care what back we ended up with, but it's a new year with new faces running the team...so why not think out of the box?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

It does happen every year...and there is a reason for that. Our RBs haven't been that dependable since MA and Tater were sharing the rock...and some would even say we were settling with them. Even then, some folks were wanting a RB in round 1. W/ Shanny though, that was never gonna happen. And w/ the D being this bad, it likely won't happen in 2009. Doesn't chang the fact that our "stable" is lacking. Add to that the fact that EVERY DENVER RB is coming off of a season ending injury, and yes, many of us want RB addressed early.

Last year, I liked Jonathan Stewart. Some others liked Mendenhall. I also liked Clady, but Jeff Otah was my perference at OT. I wasn't crushed to see Clady get picked, but was a bit disappointed to see Stew go elsewhere. I knew we weren't getting a RB, but I still wanted him. Other than that, the last RB I really wanted was DeAngelo Williams. I wasn't huge on the Golden Gopher tandem, although they played in a ZBS system in college. I liked em, but they weren't my #1 choice. M. Lynch was intriguing, but I really liked Posluszny. I'm usually into the Safeties. That being said, I really want McCoy of Pitt (especially since Mays is staying put). I know it ain't happening, but I still want him. I also like Shonn Greene and James Davis later on. They are more likely, although the D is still a bigger concern. As much as I know the D needs fixed, I also believe we need some stability in the backfield to take the pressure off of Jay and the WRs. I know we've been able to get away w/ blow average options, but I don't think people relaize how potent the O can be w/ a legit threat at RB. JMHO.

[atwater27]

I am not really impressed after watching clips of Shon greene highlights. He looks slow as hell. He has some power but I don't see him running that many people over in the big leagues. (like he did in college, I mean.)

I would prefer Jeremiah Johnson over Greene. And we could get him way late.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I like Johnson, but he is too injury prone as well. We need a guy who stays on the field.

[Lonestar]

I am not really impressed after watching clips of Shon greene highlights. He looks slow as hell. He has some power but I don't see him running that many people over in the big leagues. (like he did in college, I mean.)

I would prefer Jeremiah Johnson over Greene. And we could get him way late.

if he is slow and we will know at the combine then all we have is another Hillis.. so what do we accomplish? other than a HIGH priced draftee doing the same thing a 7th rounder is..


After watching the playoffs. I think everyone can now understand the reason for having a stud Safety.. and why unless Mc Kid sees something in Barrett it should be at the top of the wish list..

[LRtagger]

LR did you catch see the Senior Bowl practice today? I got to watch Raji and looked very good and they gave props to Connor Barwin, however I didn't get to see him practice.

Nah I missed it...do they stream it online?

[TXBRONC]

Nah I missed it...do they stream it online?

That sir I do not know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is done.

[CoachChaz]

I am not really impressed after watching clips of Shon greene highlights. He looks slow as hell. He has some power but I don't see him running that many people over in the big leagues. (like he did in college, I mean.)

I would prefer Jeremiah Johnson over Greene. And we could get him way late.

We already have a Jeremiah Johnson...his name is Tatum Bell.

[Traveler]

How about the RB from Liberty? Rashad Jennings is his name I believe.

[CoachChaz]

How about the RB from Liberty? Rashad Jennings is his I believe.

He's a stud. 6'1", 235 with a 4.5 40. He's already impressing guys at the SB practices. Some quotes from this week.

"As for the players who took part in Monday's pageant in Mobile, USC linebacker Brian Cushing and two running backs, Liberty's Rashad Jennings and Virginia's Cedric Peerman, were in the running for "best body." - Matthew Barrows

"Liberty RB, Rashad Jennings made a nice catch on an outlet pass during the scrimmage and showed much more acceleration than the scouts - and certainly the South safeties - were expecting. Jennings zipped through the defense and broke into the open for what would have been a TD." - Rob Rang

"Underclassmen dominate the top of the running back class. Jennings, who transferred from pittsburgh after a successful freshman season, to be closer to his ill father, could challenge for a late first or early second round pick if his footwork and skills are appreciated in Mobile. The current NFL trend of having dynamic ball-carrying duos means many teams would love to see a 6-1, 235 pound, 4.5 40 guy like Jennings in their backfield" - Chad Reuter

[LRtagger]

damn i hope he stops impressing...i was hoping we could get him in the 3rd

[CoachChaz]

damn i hope he stops impressing...i was hoping we could get him in the 3rd

Yeah, me too. But if his success pushed Donald Brown down to us in the 3rd, I'd be okay with that as well

[dogfish]

coach, what are you hearing about where shady's projected?


i know how desperately we need the help on defense, but if i could have any back from this draft he'd be the first one i'd pick. . .

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Jennings would be awesome. According to Wright, Raji is molesting people. Ron Brace is looking like a turd.

[CoachChaz]

coach, what are you hearing about where shady's projected?


i know how desperately we need the help on defense, but if i could have any back from this draft he'd be the first one i'd pick. . .

Shady?

[dogfish]

Shady?

sorry, lesean mccoy-- his nickname is shady. . .

[CoachChaz]

sorry, lesean mccoy-- his nickname is shady. . .

Oh...you said Shady and i thought of Shady Solomon, the RB at Minnesota.

I like McCoy and he's from my hometown and went to my ex-wife's alma mater in high school. I'm a little bias based on that, but honestly, it's hard to judge where he'll go until the combine.

He's easily in the top 3 with Moreno and Wells, but none of them are doing anything until the combine. Obviously, he could go anywhere in the first or early second and I think after the combine, he could emerge as the top back if his numbers add up. The only thing I have on him now are his 40 times in college. his high was a 4.58 and his lowest was a 4.40. Moreno has a high of 4.57 and a low of 4.42. both are better numbers than wells, but Wells has the size advantage. i can post something with all this info in another thread

[Lonestar]

sorry, lesean mccoy-- his nickname is shady. . .

Unless he got that because he likes to sleep under a tree I'd rule him out just because of his name..:salute:

[turftoad]

Unless he got that because he likes to sleep under a tree I'd rule him out just because of his name..:salute:

I think they call him shady cuz defender have to tackle his shadow because he's so illusive.

[Lonestar]

I think they call him shady cuz defender have to tackle his shadow because he's so illusive.


OK I thought it was because he is of shady character..


Thanks for the clarification..