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View Full Version : Brian Billick on Nolan: "best coach I've ever been around" and "adaptable, won't get pigeon holed with either 3-4 or 4-3"



Tned
01-14-2009, 01:27 PM
This article was posted in the Nolan thread, but I thought it deserved some direct attention.

Not only does Billick have extremely high praise for Nolan as a coach, calling him the best coach he has been around, but more importantly, he says that Nolan won't get stuck on just one style of defense, that he is adaptable.

Billick talked about how when Nolan first took over, they had an abundance of LB's, but were weak on the line, so they moved to a 3-4. Then, when they got the defensive linemen needed to run a 4-3, they switched back to a 4-3.

He says that Nolan is willing and able to adapt the scheme and approach to the personnel that he has to work with.

Obviously, the proof will be on the Sundays in Sep, Oct, Nov and Dec later this year, but this was a great article about Nolan.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9077098/Propensity?-Intensity-McDaniels'-choice-of-Nolan-to-rebuild-defense-'great-hire'-?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5

Propensity? Intensity McDaniels' choice of Nolan to rebuild defense 'great hire'

by Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News , Rocky Mountain News

Mike Nolan was only 33 in 1993 when he was hired to be a coordinator in the NFL for the first time.

He spent his youth before that at various pro camps, shagging punts with the players and helping out where he could, while his father, Dick, was coach of the San Francisco 49ers and New Orleans Saints.
Needless to say, X's and O's almost always were part of the family's dinnertime lexicon.

And when it came to single- minded focus, Mike Nolan had that, too, with the late general manager of the New York Giants, George Young, once saying, "No one will outwork him."

That story sounds eerily similar to the one presented in recent days about new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. It immediately becomes understandable, then, why Nolan would be the choice as his new defensive coordinator.

Nolan signed a two-year contract Tuesday.

"I think it's a great pick," said former Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick, who had Nolan run his defense from 2002 to 2004 before Nolan left to become, as his father before him, coach of the 49ers.

"You're obviously talking about an incredible amount of experience, both in the league and as a head coach, which is obviously something Josh can draw on. Mike is the best coach I've ever been around. He's knowledgeable and very demanding of his players, but in a way that they knew that it's in their best interests, and they respond to that very readily.

"He had a very commanding presence with the players and they'll listen to him and recognize his capabilities. It's a great hire."

It's the fifth team for which Nolan will be the defensive coordinator, following 11 combined years with the Giants (1993 to 1996), Washington Redskins (1997 to 1999), New York Jets (2000) and Ravens, where he also spent one season as a receivers coach.

Billick described Nolan with words such as "intense" and "professional" and labeled his philosophy as adaptable.

"The one thing you can be sure about Mike is he'll do what's best for his personnel," Billick said. "He's not going to shove them into a mold of, 'Well, this is what I know.' For us, for example, we had transitioned from a lot of good linebackers to a minimal number of defensive linemen, so it made sense to do the 3-4. Then we acquired the defensive linemen and transitioned back. Mike's not going to get pigeonholed as just one or the other."

It also will be Nolan's second go-round with the Broncos. His first job after four college stops was working as Dan Reeves' special-teams coach for two seasons before overseeing the linebackers, starting in 1989.

Four years later, Reeves was fired and hired by the Giants, and Nolan was given oversight of the New York defense at nearly the same age as McDaniels is now, 32.

"I just think he's a really bright Football coach and a great communicator. That's what you need to be able to do, work with people to put a defensive scheme together," Reeves said Tuesday. "He knows personnel very well. You look back at some of the players that he's coached, and the defensive coordinator and the head coach have a lot to do with those people being there.

"I can go all the way back to Michael Strahan, and we had other good players. Mike was there when Strahan was drafted. I think he's great in a rebuilding program, or one already built. And he already has been in that organization. He knows the owner, knows the people, knows the town and how the fans are. I think all those things help him."

The Broncos' current defense is a hefty rebuilding project. It has allowed 409 and 448 points in consecutive seasons. The club set franchise lows in takeaways (13), while yielding a 63.6 percent completion rate and 146.1 rushing yards a game, finishing in the lower tier in numerous other categories this season.

Yet Nolan has faced similar tasks before, with mixed results, since leaving the Giants.

In Washington, he was skewered on a regular basis and fired after the Redskins ranked 30th out of then 31 teams after his third season.

With the Jets, he took a group that was 21st overall to 10th in one year but lost his job when Al Groh's staff was replaced by new coach Herm Edwards and his assistants.

The Ravens roster was heavily purged in 2002 when Nolan replaced Marvin Lewis, losing Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams and Rob Burnett from a stout defensive line.

But Nolan eventually switched to a 3-4 front and helped a team with an NFL-record 19 rookies re-establish itself on defense. The Ravens were ranked third overall the next season, sixth in 2004.

Those results helped land Nolan the 49ers job, which came with a defense that had allowed a franchise-record points and was a league-worst 2-14.

"First of all, he's very sound," Reeves said. "He wants to be a defense that doesn't give up the big plays, that makes a team earn what they get and don't make mistakes. He's aggressive, yet not aggressive to the point where's taking a lot of chances that will get you hurt. And I think he uses his personnel really well. He adjusts the defense to the personnel."

Like Nolan's tenure in Baltimore, San Francisco bounced between 4-3 and 3-4 looks in Nolan's 31/2 seasons but was hamstrung by the ill-fated selection of Alex Smith as the No. 1 pick in Nolan's initial draft.

Some Broncos fans might be lukewarm to Nolan because of that recent history, but Reeves believes that would be unfair.

"If you look at where San Francisco was when he came there and where they are now, I think he's definitely got them on the right track," said Reeves, who still communicates with Nolan and broadcasts various NFL games as a radio analyst to maintain his pulse on the league.

"He wasn't able to finish that process, but you look at the defensive personnel they've got. He's had a couple really good defensive players make the Pro Bowl, even when his Football team was struggling. You have to look at the whole body of work and realize Mike's a really good Football coach."

Traveler
01-14-2009, 01:39 PM
This article was posted in the Nolan thread, but I thought it deserved some direct attention.

Not only does Billick have extremely high praise for Nolan as a coach, calling him the best coach he has been around, but more importantly, he says that Nolan won't get stuck on just one style of defense, that he is adaptable.

Billick talked about how when Nolan first took over, they had an abundance of LB's, but were weak on the line, so they moved to a 3-4. Then, when they got the defensive linemen needed to run a 4-3, they switched back to a 4-3.

He says that Nolan is willing and able to adapt the scheme and approach to the personnel that he has to work with.

Obviously, the proof will be on the Sundays in Sep, Oct, Nov and Dec later this year, but this was a great article about Nolan.


I read that too. Which is why I'm not so sure we'll be switching toa 3-4 anytime soon. As was said in another article, we really don't have any players currently on the roster, save Champ, that will allow for the possible switch. Good to know he tailors the defense to the personnel instead of the other way around.

Ziggy
01-14-2009, 04:22 PM
High praise from Billick and Reeves. 2 guys who know just a tad bit about football. Some would even say they know even more than people on forum boards!

Fan in Exile
01-14-2009, 04:23 PM
High praise from Billick and Reeves. 2 guys who know just a tad bit about football. Some would even say they know even more than people on forum boards!

No that couldn't be true. Nobody knows more than I do. :cool:

Tned
01-14-2009, 04:27 PM
While you never know if it's the players, the coach or a combination, this sounds pretty good and much like the situation we are in/going to be in:


The Ravens roster was heavily purged in 2002 when Nolan replaced Marvin Lewis, losing Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams and Rob Burnett from a stout defensive line.

But Nolan eventually switched to a 3-4 front and helped a team with an NFL-record 19 rookies re-establish itself on defense. The Ravens were ranked third overall the next season, sixth in 2004.

turftoad
01-14-2009, 04:30 PM
While you never know if it's the players, the coach or a combination, this sounds pretty good and much like the situation we are in/going to be in:

19 rookies??
Looks like he's not afraid to go with young guys if he thinks they're ready. A fault of Shanny's.

Ziggy
01-14-2009, 04:33 PM
19 rookies??
Looks like he's not afraid to go with young guys if he thinks they're ready. A fault of Shanny's.

He may not have much of a choice here.

Tned
01-14-2009, 04:38 PM
19 rookies??
Looks like he's not afraid to go with young guys if he thinks they're ready. A fault of Shanny's.

I'm guessing they weren't all on defense, and not all starting, but still to have 19 rookies out of the 53 man roster is a lot of rookies.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 04:39 PM
High praise from Billick and Reeves. 2 guys who know just a tad bit about football. Some would even say they know even more than people on forum boards!

certainly not more than you, G and Top..

Fan in Exile
01-14-2009, 04:40 PM
I'm guessing they weren't all on defense, and not all starting, but still to have 19 rookies out of the 53 man roster is a lot of rookies.

If you look at the guys he lost, he had to replace some serious parts of the superbowl team.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 04:46 PM
19 rookies??
Looks like he's not afraid to go with young guys if he thinks they're ready. A fault of Shanny's.

one of mikeys downfalls IMO..

look at the kiddies he had on the squad but would not play them till he had no other choice..

Larsen, Barrett, Woodyard, J Bell, J Williams.. and on the O Hillis. Had they been played most of the year when it was obvious that the "starters' were not getting it done. 4th game... we would have been that much farther ahead right now and less question marks for Mc Kid to figure out..

TXBRONC
01-14-2009, 04:58 PM
I'm guessing they weren't all on defense, and not all starting, but still to have 19 rookies out of the 53 man roster is a lot of rookies.

That is quite a few rookies regardless if they all were in the starting line up.

Tned
01-14-2009, 05:04 PM
one of mikeys downfalls IMO..

look at the kiddies he had on the squad but would not play them till he had no other choice..

Larsen, Barrett, Woodyard, J Bell, J Williams.. and on the O Hillis. Had they been played most of the year when it was obvious that the "starters' were not getting it done. 4th game... we would have been that much farther ahead right now and less question marks for Mc Kid to figure out..

Hillis did start right away, at FB, which is clearly where he belonged coming out of training camp. Of the others, only Woodyard had any meaninful impact when he had a chance to start for injuries, with his 50 tackles in 5 games.

Larsen had a 'solid', but not spectacular game when he played MLB. Bell got picked on when he filled in for Champ, and Williams seemed to dissapoint most people on this message board when he finally got some playing time, after weeks and weeks of calling for him to play.

Barrett is hard to evaluate, especially since in the one game they started him, he played that wierd 25 yards off the line of scrimmage defense, but it isn't like he started and became an instant star. I doubt he is even close to being a definate starter at safety next year.

TXBRONC
01-14-2009, 05:20 PM
Hillis did start right away, at FB, which is clearly where he belonged coming out of training camp. Of the others, only Woodyard had any meaninful impact when he had a chance to start for injuries, with his 50 tackles in 5 games.

Larsen had a 'solid', but not spectacular game when he played MLB. Bell got picked on when he filled in for Champ, and Williams seemed to dissapoint most people on this message board when he finally got some playing time, after weeks and weeks of calling for him to play.

Barrett is hard to evaluate, especially since in the one game they started him, he played that wierd 25 yards off the line of scrimmage defense, but it isn't like he started and became an instant star. I doubt he is even close to being a definate starter at safety next year.

I think some people jump to conclusions that just a rookies comes at the tail-end of season and holds his own or even plays exceptionally well that must mean they were ready to play from game one. Not every rookie that comes into the NFL is ready to start from game one. Hillis, Royal, and Clady were all ready so they were in the starting line up.

bcbronc
01-14-2009, 05:24 PM
how do you even get 19 rookies on one team?

TXBRONC
01-14-2009, 05:25 PM
how do you even get 19 rookies on one team?

Some would have had to been undrafted rookie free agents.

bcbronc
01-14-2009, 05:27 PM
Some would have had to been undrafted rookie free agents.

I know. but there's only so many quality UDFAs, otherwise they would have been drafted. and some would have been promoted from the practise squad. but when you think of it, 19 rookies boggles the mind.

Dortoh
01-14-2009, 05:29 PM
I know. but there's only so many quality UDFAs, otherwise they would have been drafted. and some would have been promoted from the practise squad. but when you think of it, 19 rookies boggles the mind.

Some must have been cut from other clubs in the preseason?

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 05:30 PM
Hillis did start right away, at FB, which is clearly where he belonged coming out of training camp. Of the others, only Woodyard had any meaninful impact when he had a chance to start for injuries, with his 50 tackles in 5 games.

Larsen had a 'solid', but not spectacular game when he played MLB. Bell got picked on when he filled in for Champ, and Williams seemed to dissapoint most people on this message board when he finally got some playing time, after weeks and weeks of calling for him to play.

Barrett is hard to evaluate, especially since in the one game they started him, he played that wierd 25 yards off the line of scrimmage defense, but it isn't like he started and became an instant star. I doubt he is even close to being a definate starter at safety next year.

while overall you may be correct.

But the original premise was had they played in their correct position for most of the year we would at least know if they were worth keeping at this point....

I realize that WW would never start over DJ, but larsen certainly had more going for him than did Niko or webster.. and playing him t FB where Hillis was was IMO dumb.. yes JMFW and the other kids got picked on and out of position but in many cases so was bly.. and Barrett when I saw him play Except for when Boob had him playing in the old MILE HIGH stadium looked pretty good..

I think all of these kids are athletes and should stick but if the new guys go on film alone, many will be goners.. due to the horrendous light they were put into..

I'm surprised that you being a HAwg fan would not be higher on Hillis than you are..

Medford Bronco
01-14-2009, 05:34 PM
how do you even get 19 rookies on one team?

You have to be in major cap hell and the Ravens at that time were

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 05:41 PM
I know. but there's only so many quality UDFAs, otherwise they would have been drafted. and some would have been promoted from the practise squad. but when you think of it, 19 rookies boggles the mind.

you do realize we had:

17 rookies,

11 second year guys

6 3rd year

2 4th year

5 5th year

7 6th year

17 over 7years or more and these were..

Champ, bly, EE, Engelberger, fox, graham, hamilton, jackson, manuel, mccree, leach, stokely, webster, weigman, nalen, pittman, ramsey,

on the squad..

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396

pretty young team last year..

Dortoh
01-14-2009, 05:44 PM
you do realize we had:

17 rookies,

11 second year guys

6 3rd year

2 4th year

5 5th year

7 6th year

17 over 7years or more and these were..

Champ, bly, EE, Engelberger, fox, graham, hamilton, jackson, manuel, mccree, leach, stokely, webster, weigman, nalen, pittman, ramsey,

on the squad..

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396

pretty young team last year..

Wow I knew we were a young team but that is insane. Look at the 7years + guys and you can see we are about to get even younger. Weigman, nalen, pittman, ramsey, engelberger, webster at the very least are all out of here.

Den21vsBal19
01-14-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm glad to see Billick use the word 'adaptable' in his assessment if Nolan..............................

He's gonna need to be that and a whole lot more with this D :laugh:

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 05:48 PM
Wow I knew we were a young team but that is insane. Look at the 7years + guys and you can see we are about to get even younger. Weigman, nalen, pittman, ramsey, engelberger, webster at the very least are all out of here.

mikey really screwed himself over the past 10 years or so with lousy draft choices had he been able to o keep a couple each year as starters then we would not be seeing the 34-3 years and younger on the squad like we are..

He was a pretty good coach and made do with a lot of less than special players and High priced FA's and as you can see it had to change..

Kudos to Pat for finally figuring it out..

BTW alot of those 7+ years folks were clowns.. and would not have played else where..

PatricktheDookie
01-14-2009, 06:30 PM
you do realize we had:

17 rookies,

11 second year guys

6 3rd year

2 4th year

5 5th year

7 6th year

17 over 7years or more and these were..

Champ, bly, EE, Engelberger, fox, graham, hamilton, jackson, manuel, mccree, leach, stokely, webster, weigman, nalen, pittman, ramsey,

on the squad..

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396

pretty young team last year..

This is why I don't fire Shanahan.

Dean
01-14-2009, 07:14 PM
This is why I don't fire Shanahan.

Amen! :salute:

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 07:35 PM
This is why I don't fire Shanahan.

that is the reason you fire mikey the GM he screwed this team up for going on 10 years with lousy choices.. I suspect that is what Pat wanted to do have him step back and focus in Coaching which he is good at.. and he wanted control..


Even a blind man can see how bad his personnel decisions players and coaching have been since John left.. and so the Goodman's have done good over the past couple of years we were so far in the hole even 5th to 7th round draft choices were sticking..

Could any of those players stuck on the Pats, steelers or any of the other better teams in the league?

I'd guess not..

Dean
01-14-2009, 09:41 PM
Here are some late round picks by the Broncos.

Linemen- Tom Nalen, Dan Neil, Chris Kuper Chris Meyers
Special teams- Jason Elam, Paul Ernster
LB- Spenser Larsen, Nate Wayne
RB- Mike Anderson, Ryan Torain, Payton Hillis

Surely some of them can play.:D

shank
01-14-2009, 09:54 PM
This is why I don't fire Shanahan.

i agree, but i'm excited about the future still.


i love that nolan is described as doing what's best for the personel. there isn't a scheme. he takes what he has and makes it work best, that's what we need, and it's what slow was supposed to do after bates failed to implement a scheme. defensive upgrade is surely on the way (downgrade impossible).

Buff
01-14-2009, 09:56 PM
defensive upgrade is surely on the way (downgrade impossible).

That's what I said before this season... :mad:

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 01:31 AM
Here are some late round picks by the Broncos.

Linemen- Tom Nalen, Dan Neil, Chris Kuper Chris Meyers
Special teams- Jason Elam, Paul Ernster
LB- Spenser Larsen, Nate Wayne
RB- Mike Anderson, Ryan Torain, Payton Hillis

Surely some of them can play.:D

yes and they did in a specialized system.. and while larsen Hillis torain still have to prove themselves mostly from Hillis in particular he is special.

But most of those folks (ST excluded) would most likely never been drafted or if they had would not have played on the better teams in the league..

MA was a unique situation though, he might have done good elsewhere, but frankly who otehr than mikey was going to take a 25 year old rookie that played at a WAC school....

BTW dan neil was a 3rd rounder #67 choice in 1997..:salute:

Shazam!
01-15-2009, 02:01 AM
Nalen and Elam were in Denver with Wade Phillips.

Dean
01-15-2009, 07:20 AM
yes and they did in a specialized system.. and while larsen Hillis torain still have to prove themselves mostly from Hillis in particular he is special.

But most of those folks (ST excluded) would most likely never been drafted or if they had would not have played on the better teams in the league..

MA was a unique situation though, he might have done good elsewhere, but frankly who otehr than mikey was going to take a 25 year old rookie that played at a WAC school....

BTW dan neil was a 3rd rounder #67 choice in 1997..:salute:

Okay replace Dan Neil with Terrel Davis and IMO I think, thatgiven a chance, they would have made the cut.

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 08:50 AM
yes and they did in a specialized system.. and while larsen Hillis torain still have to prove themselves mostly from Hillis in particular he is special.

But most of those folks (ST excluded) would most likely never been drafted or if they had would not have played on the better teams in the league..

MA was a unique situation though, he might have done good elsewhere, but frankly who otehr than mikey was going to take a 25 year old rookie that played at a WAC school....

BTW dan neil was a 3rd rounder #67 choice in 1997..:salute:

I've always really hated the "system" knock on guys. Every team plays a system. Not all guys are going to work on every team. Not every team is going to draft every player, that doesn't mean that the ones who come in to an NFL team and put up NFL numbers should be penalized because their coach is running a scheme that is different from what every other coach runs. If a coach has a scheme and gets players to fit that scheme and wins, they deserve all the credit they get because that's hard to do in the NFL.

Make no mistake about it they were successful. Even with the last three years when he went 24-24, Shanhan still has the 13th highest winning percentage ever. That's what the Game is about, winning.

Sure he's gone and it's time to move on, but as we are moving on lets not try to rewrite history by saying that Shanahan was anything other than an outstanding success.

Requiem / The Dagda
01-15-2009, 10:38 AM
All teams have a "system" and they draft players who fit and buy into it. Well they should. Denver has done this well offensively for a long-time, but defensively they haven't. There is a reason why teams like Baltimore were able to take rookies and low-round choices and get them to work out phenomenally in their defense. They fit and bought into it. Lets hope Goodman, McDaniels and Nolan can find players like that for us in this draft. There are a lot of great 3-4 guys in this draft, and the thing about it -- the value for those guys is pretty good all around the board. I think we'll be able to find 3-4 guys in the third and fourth rounds who could start for this team. I'm excited.

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 12:21 PM
I've always really hated the "system" knock on guys. Every team plays a system. Not all guys are going to work on every team. Not every team is going to draft every player, that doesn't mean that the ones who come in to an NFL team and put up NFL numbers should be penalized because their coach is running a scheme that is different from what every other coach runs. If a coach has a scheme and gets players to fit that scheme and wins, they deserve all the credit they get because that's hard to do in the NFL.

Make no mistake about it they were successful. Even with the last three years when he went 24-24, Shanhan still has the 13th highest winning percentage ever. That's what the Game is about, winning.

Sure he's gone and it's time to move on, but as we are moving on lets not try to rewrite history by saying that Shanahan was anything other than an outstanding success.

not doubt he was a winner but then so was Jake and not everyone liked him..

I do not think that you can really believe that for the most part any of our drafted 2000-2007 OLINE guys would have started on any other team in the NFL had they not spent time in DEN getting practice.. For the most part IF they would have been drafted they would not have made it out of Training camp or at best wound up on ST line play..

there are few if any 290-295 OT in this league almost no 280-285 centers.. and not many if any 280-290 OG's..

Let me also qualify that by excluding a few of the ZBS teams or the really lousy teams..

None of the elite teams the ones that consistently win and are in the playoffs have the light assed OLINE types we have had since Zimmerman and company retired..

It was a mikey trademark a light, fast, smart OLINE.. something we probably will not see much longer..

topscribe
01-15-2009, 12:32 PM
not doubt he was a winner but then so was Jake and not everyone liked him..

I do not think that you can really believe that for the most part any of our drafted 2000-2007 OLINE guys would have started on any other team in the NFL had they not spent time in DEN getting practice.. For the most part IF they would have been drafted they would not have made it out of Training camp or at best wound up on ST line play..

there are few if any 290-295 OT in this league almost no 280-285 centers.. and not many if any 280-290 OG's..

Let me also qualify that by excluding a few of the ZBS teams or the really lousy teams..

None of the elite teams the ones that consistently win and are in the playoffs have the light assed OLINE types we have had since Zimmerman and company retired..

It was a mikey trademark a light, fast, smart OLINE.. something we probably will not see much longer..

You may be right about some who started on the previous O-lines, but you
apparently forgot about Nalen and Lepsis, who were regarded as a couple of
the better players in the league at their respective positions, and Kuper, who
showed quality from the start and is proving it now.

Anyway, we were comparing the respective average weights between the
O-lines of the Patriots and the Broncos, and there is not now a whole lot of
disparity with the additions of Kuper, Harris, and, of course, Clady. Hamilton
is the last remaining "flyweight" of the bunch, and he has been good enough
that they couldn't get him out of there.

So we had begun to see an end of the light lines before Shanny left. In fact,
Shanny had nothing against size. He just wanted quickness, but he said if he
could get size and quickness, that would be better, and that is what this line
has more of now.

-----

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 12:39 PM
You may be right about some who started on the previous O-lines, but you
apparently forgot about Nalen and Lepsis, who were regarded as a couple of
the better players in the league at their respective positions, and Kuper, who
showed quality from the start and is proving it now.

Anyway, we were comparing the respective average weights between the
O-lines of the Patriots and the Broncos, and there is not now a whole lot of
disparity with the additions of Kuper, Harris, and, of course, Clady. Hamilton
is the last remaining "flyweight" of the bunch, and he has been good enough
that they couldn't get him out of there.

So we had begun to see an end of the light lines before Shanny left. In fact,
Shanny had nothing against size. He just wanted quickness, but he said if he
could get size and quickness, that would be better, and that is what this line has more of now.

-----

But mikey was never willing to spend the draft choices especially after the fast feet foster debacle.. In order to get quality OLINE type you have to spend day one picks on them and for some many years he just flat could not waste them on OLINE guys because he had failed so badly for so many years.. was always trying to dig himself out.

Although at the time I thought Clady pick was another bust it just proved my point about having to spend day one picks..

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 12:52 PM
not doubt he was a winner but then so was Jake and not everyone liked him..

I do not think that you can really believe that for the most part any of our drafted 2000-2007 OLINE guys would have started on any other team in the NFL had they not spent time in DEN getting practice.. For the most part IF they would have been drafted they would not have made it out of Training camp or at best wound up on ST line play..

there are few if any 290-295 OT in this league almost no 280-285 centers.. and not many if any 280-290 OG's..

Let me also qualify that by excluding a few of the ZBS teams or the really lousy teams..

None of the elite teams the ones that consistently win and are in the playoffs have the light assed OLINE types we have had since Zimmerman and company retired..

It was a mikey trademark a light, fast, smart OLINE.. something we probably will not see much longer..

It's stupid to use would they start on other teams as a standard. They won that's what counts. Few of those other o-lines would have started on our team.

McDaniels was installing a ZBS system at New England so I wouldn't be to quick to think that he'll do something different here.

Superchop 7
01-15-2009, 01:04 PM
The thing is......I hate it when players are confused.

We certainly have seen enough of that.

Here's the dilemna.

Draft is thin at nose tackle.

You cannot run a 3-4 without a good one. (preferably great.....see Cody/Terrance)

However, draft is deep at linebacker and safety.

So......they logical thing to do is find some linebackers that can play both schemes.

Fix the safety problem.

Run a 4-3 until you can fix the d-line.

I think the long term health of the defense begins with whoever is available at pick 12, in this case Curry or Spikes.

Round 2, I think it needs to be best d-lineman available.

Round 3, well.....it's a great time to make a move and pick up an extra pick, we can grab 2 quality safeties in that round.

IMO, that would be 4 starters, then hope for a lower round gem.

For now.....try not to throw too much at the players with 2 schemes.

Next year, get the nose tackle and switch to 3-4.

MOtorboat
01-15-2009, 01:07 PM
But mikey was never willing to spend the draft choices especially after the fast feet foster debacle.. In order to get quality OLINE type you have to spend day one picks on them and for some many years he just flat could not waste them on OLINE guys because he had failed so badly for so many years.. was always trying to dig himself out.

Although at the time I thought Clady pick was another bust it just proved my point about having to spend day one picks..

Interesting notes here...how the four teams in the Championship games assembled their lines:


Arizona Cardinals
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Levi Brown Rd 1 5, 2007 Rd 1 5, 2007
RG Deuce Lutui Rd 2 41, 2006 Rd 2 41, 2006
C Lyle Sendlein UDFA 2007 UDFA 2007
LG Reggie Wells Rd 6 177, 2003 Rd 6 177, 2003
LT Mike Gandy FA 2007 Rd 3 68, 2001


Philadelphia Eagles
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Jon Runyan FA 2000 Rd 4 109, 1996
RG Shawn Andrews Rd 1 16, 2004 Rd 1 16, 2004
C Jamaal Jackson UDFA 2003 UDFA 2003
LG Todd Herremans Rd 4 126, 2005 Rd 4 126, 2005
LT Tra Thomas Rd 1 11, 1998 Rd 1 11, 1998


Pittsburgh Steelers
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Willie Colon Rd 4 131, 2006 Rd 4 131, 2006
RG D. Stapleton UDFA 2007 UDFA 2007
C Justin Hartwig FA 2008 Rd 6 187, 2002
LG Chris Kemoeatu Rd 6 204, 2005 Rd 6 204, 2005
LT Max Starks Rd 3 75, 2004 Rd 3 75, 2004


Baltimore Ravens
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Willie Anderson FA 2008 Rd 1 10, 1996
RG Chris Chester Rd 2 56, 2006 Rd 2 56, 2006
C Jason Brown Rd 4 124, 2005 Rd 4 124, 2005
LG Ben Grubbs Rd 1 29, 2007 Rd 1 29, 2007
LT Jared Gaither S Rd 5, 2007 S Rd 5 2007

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 01:14 PM
It's stupid to use would they start on other teams as a standard. They won that's what counts. Few of those other o-lines would have started on our team.

McDaniels was installing a ZBS system at New England so I wouldn't be to quick to think that he'll do something different here.

why is it stupid to ask if they were such wonderful player why were they not taken higher in the draft and could they have started on a playoff team if not then it means the are substandard.. something we had to settle for..

if that is your goal more power to you.. and do not give me that standard BS about leading the the league in rushing yards.

until it is leading the league in:


rushing TD's it is a hollow argument..
3rd down conversions running the ball
TOP because of your running game.
.

everything else just mans that we can move the ball pretty good between the 20's and that our HOF FG kicker has to save the day with 3 pointers..

lets hope that we get bigger on the LOS and do indeed employ the ZBS for a while..

MOtorboat
01-15-2009, 01:16 PM
why is it stupid to ask if they were such wonderful player why were they not taken higher in the draft and could they have started on a playoff team if not then it means the are substandard.. something we had to settle for..

if that is your goal more power to you.. and do not give me that standard BS about leading the the league in rushing yards.

until it is leading the league in:


rushing TD's it is a hollow argument..
3rd down conversions running the ball
TOP because of your running game.
.

everything else just mans that we can move the ball pretty good between the 20's and that our HOF FG kicker has to save the day with 3 pointers..

lets hope that we get bigger on the LOS and do indeed employ the ZBS for a while..

So our line was substandard?

:tsk:

Statistically the best pass-blocking offensive line in the NFL...and sub standard...I hate to see what would make you satisfied.

topscribe
01-15-2009, 01:16 PM
But mikey was never willing to spend the draft choices especially after the fast feet foster debacle.. In order to get quality OLINE type you have to spend day one picks on them and for some many years he just flat could not waste them on OLINE guys because he had failed so badly for so many years.. was always trying to dig himself out.

Although at the time I thought Clady pick was another bust it just proved my point about having to spend day one picks..

JR, Kuper is a fourth-round draft choice, and consensus is he played at a Pro
Bowl level this last year. Harris is third-round. They are high on Lichtensteiger,
taken in the fourth round, who was held out of the starting rotation by
Wiegmann, who is going to the Pro Bowl.

Wiegmann, BTW, was signed as a UFA by Indy in 1996. Nalen was drafted in
the 7th round in 1994. Matt Lepsis was a UFA in 1997. Schlereth was drafted
in the 10th round in 1989.

Let's take a look at the Patriots' O-line, since they are regarded as pretty
good: Center Dan Koppen was drafted in the 5th round. RG Billy Yates was a
UFA in 2003. RG Kaczur was 3rd round. Only Mankins (1st) and Light (2nd)
were first day.

Now, bringing it back to the Broncos, they struggled on the line in 2006-2007,
sure. But the most recent line was 2008, and they were regarded as one of
the best lines in the league. They gave up only 13 sacks, for pity's sake, and
even the running game was coming around with Young and Hillis at a 5.0 YPA
and Tater at 5.7.

I don't know how this got around to the O-line since it's supposed to be about
Coach Nolan, but I had to respond to it. Sorry, thread-starter. (Ack! It was
Tned! :scared: )

-----

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Interesting notes here...how the four teams in the Championship games assembled their lines:


Arizona Cardinals
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Levi Brown Rd 1 5, 2007 Rd 1 5, 2007
RG Deuce Lutui Rd 2 41, 2006 Rd 2 41, 2006
C Lyle Sendlein UDFA 2007 UDFA 2007
LG Reggie Wells Rd 6 177, 2003 Rd 6 177, 2003
LT Mike Gandy FA 2007 Rd 3 68, 2001


Philadelphia Eagles
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Jon Runyan FA 2000 Rd 4 109, 1996
RG Shawn Andrews Rd 1 16, 2004 Rd 1 16, 2004
C Jamaal Jackson UDFA 2003 UDFA 2003
LG Todd Herremans Rd 4 126, 2005 Rd 4 126, 2005
LT Tra Thomas Rd 1 11, 1998 Rd 1 11, 1998


Pittsburgh Steelers
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Willie Colon Rd 4 131, 2006 Rd 4 131, 2006
RG D. Stapleton UDFA 2007 UDFA 2007
C Justin Hartwig FA 2008 Rd 6 187, 2002
LG Chris Kemoeatu Rd 6 204, 2005 Rd 6 204, 2005
LT Max Starks Rd 3 75, 2004 Rd 3 75, 2004


Baltimore Ravens
Pos. Player Acquired Drafted
RT Willie Anderson FA 2008 Rd 1 10, 1996
RG Chris Chester Rd 2 56, 2006 Rd 2 56, 2006
C Jason Brown Rd 4 124, 2005 Rd 4 124, 2005
LG Ben Grubbs Rd 1 29, 2007 Rd 1 29, 2007
LT Jared Gaither S Rd 5, 2007 S Rd 5 2007


thanks for the work on this :salute:

from what I see a lot of day one picks..

9 out of 20 and then 4 in round 4..

all of which until two years ago would have been almost unheard on in DEN..

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 01:25 PM
JR, Kuper is a fourth-round draft choice, and consensus is he played at a Pro
Bowl level this last year. Harris is third-round. They are high on Lichtensteiger,
taken in the fourth round, who was held out of the starting rotation by
Wiegmann, who is going to the Pro Bowl.

Wiegmann, BTW, was signed as a UFA by Indy in 1996. Nalen was drafted in
the 7th round in 1994. Matt Lepsis was a UFA in 1997. Schlereth was drafted
in the 10th round in 1989.

Let's take a look at the Patriots' O-line, since they are regarded as pretty
good: Center Dan Koppen was drafted in the 5th round. RG Billy Yates was a
UFA in 2003. RG Kaczur was 3rd round. Only Mankins (1st) and Light (2nd)
were first day.

Now, bringing it back to the Broncos, they struggled on the line in 2006-2007,
sure. But the most recent line was 2008, and they were regarded as one of
the best lines in the league. They gave up only 13 sacks, for pity's sake, and
even the running game was coming around with Young and Hillis at a 5.0 YPA
and Tater at 5.7.

I don't know how this got around to the O-line since it's supposed to be about
Coach Nolan, but I had to respond to it. Sorry, thread-starter. (Ack! It was
Tned! :scared: )

-----

as I stated in the post above this one mikey until years ago only made on OLINE pick that started on day one.. and that was foster and I think we all know had he not been a #1 pick with alot riding on him he would have never been a starter.. Or would not have been one as long as he was..

Yes since Kuper and Harris and then Clady last year Mickey broke out of his normal 5-7 rounders and seeing if the stick routine..

DO you really think if Lepsis had not been at half speed the year before mikey would have bit the bullet and used a top 15 choice on Clady?? I do not..

LordTrychon
01-15-2009, 01:28 PM
as I stated in the post above this one mikey until years ago only made on OLINE pick that started on day one.. and that was foster and I think we all know had he not been a #1 pick with alot riding on him he would have never been a starter.. Or would not have been one as long as he was..

Yes since Kuper and Harris and then Clady last year Mickey broke out of his normal 5-7 rounders and seeing if the stick routine..

DO you really think if Lepsis had not been at half speed the year before mikey would have bit the bullet and used a top 15 choice on Clady?? I do not..

But he DID, is the point.

If anything, this proves his willingness to learn from his mistakes.

Traveler
01-15-2009, 01:29 PM
But he DID, is the point.

If anything, this proves his willingness to learn from his mistakes.

That's true. The downside is that it took him so long to see the light.;)

bcbronc
01-15-2009, 01:29 PM
who cares what round a player is drafted in, as long as he can get the job done. other than a couple of years, we've always had one of the better offensive lines in the league.

the worst criticism I can give Shanny regarding the oline is he waited a couple years too long to start upping the beef ratio.

if the McDanny era can have the same oline success as the Shanny era, we'll be in good shape.

topscribe
01-15-2009, 02:00 PM
But he DID, is the point.

If anything, this proves his willingness to learn from his mistakes.

Moreover, I remember in 2004-2005 when football people were speaking in
admiration of the Denver O-line, referring to it as one of the best.

I guess that explains it: When you have one of the better lines in the league,
it takes a while to see the light . . .

-----

LordTrychon
01-15-2009, 02:06 PM
That's true. The downside is that it took him so long to see the light.;)

Which was the perfect time to dump him, obviously. ;)

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Moreover, I remember in 2004-2005 when football people were speaking in admiration of the Denver O-line, referring to it as one of the best.

-----

and it was unless you want to talk about



rushing TD's it is a hollow argument..
3rd down conversions running the ball
TOP because of your running game.


Sure we had a great running game yard wise but running TD in the red zone were few and far between except for Mikes Bells rookie year..

topscribe
01-15-2009, 02:44 PM
and it was unless you want to talk about



rushing TD's it is a hollow argument..
3rd down conversions running the ball
TOP because of your running game.


Sure we had a great running game yard wise but running TD in the red zone were few and far between except for Mikes Bells rookie year..

That started to look pretty good last year until Hillis went down.

Regarding 2004-2005, those stats you mentioned take second place in my
mind, compared to W-L, which was pretty good those years, as you
remember. But we did still need to get better. You always want to improve.

-----

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 03:10 PM
and it was unless you want to talk about



rushing TD's it is a hollow argument..
3rd down conversions running the ball
TOP because of your running game.


Sure we had a great running game yard wise but running TD in the red zone were few and far between except for Mikes Bells rookie year..

Just out of curiosity where did we rank for those in 2005? Do you know or are you just being controlled by bitter emotions?

MOtorboat
01-15-2009, 03:33 PM
Just out of curiosity where did we rank for those in 2005? Do you know or are you just being controlled by bitter emotions?

2nd
3rd (first downs on runs...)
1st

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 04:17 PM
Just out of curiosity where did we rank for those in 2005? Do you know or are you just being controlled by bitter emotions?

I do not know for sure but suspect they were not in the top 10 your more than welcome to check them out and tell me if I'm wrong..

No I'm not bitter about mikey being fired..

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 04:33 PM
2nd
3rd (first downs on runs...)
1st
actually
2005 3rd in rushing TD's
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_TOUCHDOWNS&d-447263-n=1&season=2005&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

the other numbers were correct but notice the drop off since then..

But in TOP:
2006 was 15th
2007 was 22nd
2008 was 25th

Rushing first downs NOT sure if they were on third down ot not
2006 10th
2007 15th
2008 14th


Rushing TD's
2006 18th
2007 20th
2008 14th

how far the mighty have fallen..

MOtorboat
01-15-2009, 05:07 PM
actually
2005 3rd in rushing TD's
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RUSHING_TOUCHDOWNS&d-447263-n=1&season=2005&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

the other numbers were correct but notice the drop off since then..

But in TOP:
2006 was 15th
2007 was 22nd
2008 was 25th

Rushing first downs NOT sure if they were on third down ot not
2006 10th
2007 15th
2008 14th


Rushing TD's
2006 18th
2007 20th
2008 14th

how far the mighty have fallen..

Passing First Downs
2006: 25th
2007: 9th
2008: 9th

Passing TD's
2006: 16th
2007: 16th
2008: 7th

He was changing philosophies on the fly...you're not really looking at the whole picture. Granted, we want to score points, but you can't deny that in pass protection, which has little to do with whether the quarterback makes the right decisions in that pass protection, we were No. 1 in the league according to www.footballinsiders.com.

With the addition of Harris and Clady at tackle, it was clearly a change of philosophy from what we saw in 2005. Besides, either way, the offensive line wasn't last in the league, by any means.

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 06:06 PM
Passing First Downs
2006: 25th
2007: 9th
2008: 9th

Passing TD's
2006: 16th
2007: 16th
2008: 7th

He was changing philosophies on the fly...you're not really looking at the whole picture. Granted, we want to score points, but you can't deny that in pass protection, which has little to do with whether the quarterback makes the right decisions in that pass protection, we were No. 1 in the league according to www.footballinsiders.com.

With the addition of Harris and Clady at tackle, it was clearly a change of philosophy from what we saw in 2005. Besides, either way, the offensive line wasn't last in the league, by any means.


I'll concede that the Passing has improved and have never IIRC debated it. We needed the change in OLINE actually I have been advocating it for almost ever..

But my comments were geared to Rushing and rushing only as we knew it mikey was a rush first type of guy and every thing else fed off of that mentality..

TOP, rushing TD's inside the red zone and converting third and shorts have not been our forte for a few years..

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 06:06 PM
I do not know for sure but suspect they were not in the top 10 your more than welcome to check them out and tell me if I'm wrong..

No I'm not bitter about mikey being fired..

Jr, no one would think that you're bitter about Mike getting Fired. I do think that you are bitter, for whatever reason toward Mike. You'll notice however that you were wrong about our O-line in 2005. It was a highly ranked O-line. It wasn't size that took it down it was age and injuries.

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 06:14 PM
Jr, no one would think that you're bitter about Mike getting Fired. I do think that you are bitter, for whatever reason toward Mike. You'll notice however that you were wrong about our O-line in 2005. It was a highly ranked O-line. It wasn't size that took it down it was age and injuries.


whew I was worried that you thought I was bitter about mikey going down in flames..

I'll sleep better to night know your were not worried..

Yes I was wrong about ONE year, I was not talking about JUST 2005 but since then also .. I misread your post and frankly did not see it till MB hi-lighted only 2005.

If you were happy with mikey fine, just allow those of us that did not believe he walked on water to do so..

I lost my faith in him 3-4 years ago when I noticed from looking at old EOY press conferences his re-hashed statement about being 1 or 2 players away form a playoff and Superbowl bid..

When I went back and compared them it was like a stump speech with the dates changed..

Again if you like the guy great I could care less.. do not be upset if some us saw the handwriting earlier than Y'all did..

Nomad
01-15-2009, 06:19 PM
Did anyone hear that Ed Donatel is going to be hired again??

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 06:25 PM
whew I was worried that you thought I was bitter about mikey going down in flames..

I'll sleep better to night know your were not worried..

Yes I was wrong about ONE year, I was not talking about JUST 2005 but since then also .. I misread your post and frankly did not see it till MB hi-lighted only 2005.

If you were happy with mikey fine, just allow those of us that did not believe he walked on water to do so..

I lost my faith in him 3-4 years ago when I noticed from looking at old EOY press conferences his re-hashed statement about being 1 or 2 players away form a playoff and Superbowl bid..

When I went back and compared them it was like a stump speech with the dates changed..

Again if you like the guy great I could care less.. do not be upset if some us saw the handwriting earlier than Y'all did..

Jr it's not always about Mikey, it's about your irrational hatred for the ZBS, and the athletic guys that go with it. That's what I'm trying to get through to you.

Our O-line was doing great until injuries, it has nothing to do with their sizes. Remember Lepsis going down in 2006, and Nalen/Hamilton in 2007.

You weren't just wrong about one year, you're wrong about the scheme not working.

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 06:52 PM
Jr it's not always about Mikey, it's about your irrational hatred for the ZBS, and the athletic guys that go with it. That's what I'm trying to get through to you.

Our O-line was doing great until injuries, it has nothing to do with their sizes. Remember Lepsis going down in 2006, and Nalen/Hamilton in 2007.

You weren't just wrong about one year, you're wrong about the scheme not working.

your obviously talking about the other JR, cause this one has never hated the ZBS..

Quite the contrary I think it is a great system and when done correctly with GREAT OLINE (Which for the most part we have NOW) it is almost impossible to stop..

My complaints have been our super small OLINE that can't block inside the Redzone more specifically inside the 5..

It has nothing to do with the ZBS, but the featherweights that mikey lived on since Zimmerman and company retired..

We needed beef and last year mikey finally got his head out of his rectum and spent a #1 on Clady.. and then got rid of fat ass and install Harris and Kuper on the right side..

I would have taken it a step or two farther and install Lichtensteiger at center and Maybe polumbus at OLG Something we are going to have to do over the next two years anyway..

This would increase our heft on the OLINE by about another 15 or so pounds per man as an average..

I have lived on two motto's for along time..


You win or lose it @ the LOS
and

Offense wins games,

Defense wins Championships..

I see no reason, not trust those two in the future..

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 07:16 PM
your obviously talking about the other JR, cause this one has never hated the ZBS..

Quite the contrary I think it is a great system and when done correctly with GREAT OLINE (Which for the most part we have NOW) it is almost impossible to stop..

My complaints have been our super small OLINE that can't block inside the Redzone more specifically inside the 5..

It has nothing to do with the ZBS, but the featherweights that mikey lived on since Zimmerman and company retired..

We needed beef and last year mikey finally got his head out of his rectum and spent a #1 on Clady.. and then got rid of fat ass and install Harris and Kuper on the right side..

I would have taken it a step or two farther and install Lichtensteiger at center and Maybe polumbus at OLG Something we are going to have to do over the next two years anyway..

This would increase our heft on the OLINE by about another 15 or so pounds per man as an average..

I have lived on two motto's for along time..


You win or lose it @ the LOS
and

Offense wins games,

Defense wins Championships..

I see no reason, not trust those two in the future..

You're just wrong, by whatever measure you want to use. In 2005 we ranked 2 overall, 9th in power situations, 5th in Stuff rank. According to football outsiders.

We had ranked well in the previous years as well. We didn't have problems at the goal line, we didn't have problems with short yardage. Maybe they weren't up to your irrational standard but they ranked very well in the league.

Okay maybe you don't have a problem with the ZBS, just with the guys it takes to run it. I don't care you're still wrong about how good they were before the injuries hit.

nevcraw
01-15-2009, 07:22 PM
The broncos running game has been a shining light for over a decade. If retaining Turner and hopefully Dennison can give MCD some flexibility to focus on being a head coach and adding some pop to the red zone and passing game - i can't understand how that would be a bad thing.. There is not one running game conistantly better than the one in Denver. Tear that down for what? The oft inconsistant one in NE? no thanks..

Lonestar
01-15-2009, 07:32 PM
You're just wrong, by whatever measure you want to use. In 2005 we ranked 2 overall, 9th in power situations, 5th in Stuff rank. According to football outsiders.

We had ranked well in the previous years as well. We didn't have problems at the goal line, we didn't have problems with short yardage. Maybe they weren't up to your irrational standard but they ranked very well in the league.

Okay maybe you don't have a problem with the ZBS, just with the guys it takes to run it. I don't care you're still wrong about how good they were before the injuries hit.

Try again I was not talking about 2005 when I posted the original post..

I DID NOT see the 2005 on the subsequent post..

and have ONLY been talking about 2006-08.. since..

We all know that we were 13-3 in 2005 and to do so we had a strong running game.. I even mentioned that we did well with Mike Bell as a RB in the goal line situations and excluded them..

Go back and look really hard at how far we fell since 2005 and thus my comments about the running game that sucked "EXCEPT BETWEEN THE 20's..

After all of that if your happy with our old running game fine by me..

But lets get on the same page OK..

TXBRONC
01-15-2009, 07:37 PM
Back at the ranch, while Billick says Nolan wont be pigeoned holed I think its still at worst a 50-50 proposition that we go to a 3-4 defense. I'm glad Nolan is versed in both but the 3-4 is what he knows best.

Fan in Exile
01-15-2009, 07:47 PM
Try again I was not talking about 2005 when I posted the original post..

I DID NOT see the 2005 on the subsequent post..

and have ONLY been talking about 2006-08.. since..

We all know that we were 13-3 in 2005 and to do so we had a strong running game.. I even mentioned that we did well with Mike Bell as a RB in the goal line situations and excluded them..

Go back and look really hard at how far we fell since 2005 and thus my comments about the running game that sucked "EXCEPT BETWEEN THE 20's..

After all of that if your happy with our old running game fine by me..

But lets get on the same page OK..

Perhaps if I summarize you'll be able keep up. Through 2005 we had a top ten offensive line in the red zone and out of it. After 2005 we were killed by injuries not by having lighter guys.

topscribe
01-15-2009, 07:48 PM
your obviously talking about the other JR, cause this one has never hated the ZBS..

Quite the contrary I think it is a great system and when done correctly with GREAT OLINE (Which for the most part we have NOW) it is almost impossible to stop..

My complaints have been our super small OLINE that can't block inside the Redzone more specifically inside the 5..

It has nothing to do with the ZBS, but the featherweights that mikey lived on since Zimmerman and company retired..

We needed beef and last year mikey finally got his head out of his rectum and spent a #1 on Clady.. and then got rid of fat ass and install Harris and Kuper on the right side..

I would have taken it a step or two farther and install Lichtensteiger at center and Maybe polumbus at OLG Something we are going to have to do over the next two years anyway..

This would increase our heft on the OLINE by about another 15 or so pounds per man as an average..

I have lived on two motto's for along time..


You win or lose it @ the LOS
and

Offense wins games,

Defense wins Championships..

I see no reason, not trust those two in the future..

I agree with most everything you said, except install Lichtensteiger at center? :confused:

Wiegmann is going to the Pro Bowl this year . . .

-----

TXBRONC
01-15-2009, 08:28 PM
I agree with most everything you said, except install Lichtensteiger at center? :confused:

Wiegmann is going to the Pro Bowl this year . . .

-----

It's just a hunch but maybe Jr is thinking Wiegmann is to small? :noidea:

Foochacho
01-15-2009, 08:30 PM
Did anyone hear that Ed Donatel is going to be hired again??

Good the purple turtle he is the smart one.

topscribe
01-15-2009, 08:31 PM
It's just a hunch maybe Jr is thinking Wiegmann is to small.

Yes, I know. However, a big reason Wiegmann drew that attention was
because of how he handled those big NTs and DTs. So in a case such as his,
size becomes less important. If a guy is performing at a Pro Bowl level, a
coach isn't going to say, "Oh, I just discovered you're small for your position,
so I'm benching you."

-----

Den21vsBal19
01-15-2009, 08:34 PM
I agree with most everything you said, except install Lichtensteiger at center? :confused:

Wiegmann is going to the Pro Bowl this year . . .

-----
Isn't there some question over whether Weigmann's going to retire?

TXBRONC
01-15-2009, 08:34 PM
Yes, I know. However, a big reason Wiegmann drew that attention was
because of how he handled those big NTs and DTs. So in a case such as his,
size becomes less important . . .

-----

You're preaching to the chior. :salute:

I was throughly impressed with how he handled the likes of Kris Jenkins.

topscribe
01-15-2009, 08:39 PM
Isn't there some question over whether Weigmann's going to retire?

Yes, there is that possibility, all right. But I expect them to give him an offer
he can't refuse. Besides, he expressed an earnest desire to play in the playoffs.
So we'll see . . . but I'll bet he does it for one more year . . .

The Pro Bowl, his first, might just be the best salesman in that regard.

-----

TXBRONC
01-15-2009, 08:46 PM
Yes, there is that possibility, all right. But I expect them to give him an offer
he can't refuse. Besides, he expressed an earnest desire to play in the playoffs.
So we'll see . . . but I'll bet he does it for one more year . . .

The Pro Bowl, his first, might just be the best salesman in that regard.

-----

Will it be Vito or Micheal Corleone making the offer? :shocked:

Den21vsBal19
01-15-2009, 08:51 PM
Yes, there is that possibility, all right. But I expect them to give him an offer
he can't refuse. Besides, he expressed an earnest desire to play in the playoffs.
So we'll see . . . but I'll bet he does it for one more year . . .

The Pro Bowl, his first, might just be the best salesman in that regard.

-----
Hopefully so, his play was a pleasant suprise this year :salute:

Den21vsBal19
01-15-2009, 08:51 PM
Will it be Vito or Micheal Corleone making the offer? :shocked:
Just the hope the offer's accepted before he wakes up next to the horse's head :laugh:

TXBRONC
01-15-2009, 08:54 PM
Just the hope the offer's accepted before he wakes up next to the horse's head :laugh:

:lol:

TXBRONC
01-15-2009, 09:07 PM
Dan Parr from PFW thinks it's a foregone conclusion that Denver will switch to a 3-4.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/Denver/WWHI/2008/wwhi011509.htm

Broncos' McDaniels, Nolan prepare for 3-4 shift on defense
By Dan Parr
Jan. 15, 2009

With Mike Nolan locked in as head coach Josh McDaniels’ defensive coordinator, the Broncos will shift completely to a 3-4 defense next season after experimenting with it in a limited capacity in 2008. Although McDaniels, the former Patriots O-coordinator, isn’t experienced in coaching defense, he plans to be heavily involved in that side of things. Sources in Denver say it won’t be a case of Nolan serving as a defensive “head coach” while McDaniels, 32, stays out of his way. There are some questions about the feasibility of a quick transition from a 4-3 to 3-4 in Denver since a massive overhaul in personnel usually is necessitated by a change in schemes. In the Broncos’ case, though, regardless of scheme, sweeping changes were necessary well before McDaniels and Nolan came to town. Denver was ranked 29th in defense last season, and sources say a rebuilding effort is overdue.

omac
01-16-2009, 09:22 AM
I can't wait to see who Nolan builds his defense around.

There's always a player an offense or defense builds around; LT for SD's offense, Jay for the Broncos offense, Manning for the Colts, Ray Lewis for the Ravens, Turner for the Falcons, Urlacher for the Bears.

I wonder who our defense will be built around. Can't wait for the draft and the offseason acquisitions. :beer:

bcbronc
01-16-2009, 12:02 PM
I can't wait to see who Nolan builds his defense around.

There's always a player an offense or defense builds around; LT for SD's offense, Jay for the Broncos offense, Manning for the Colts, Ray Lewis for the Ravens, Turner for the Falcons, Urlacher for the Bears.

I wonder who our defense will be built around. Can't wait for the draft and the offseason acquisitions. :beer:

hopefully it's not Champ. not that Champ isn't great, but I don't go for building a defense around a CB. nobody else on the current roster is high enough quality to be the centre piece of a defence.

Ziggy
01-16-2009, 12:49 PM
I can't wait to see who Nolan builds his defense around.

There's always a player an offense or defense builds around; LT for SD's offense, Jay for the Broncos offense, Manning for the Colts, Ray Lewis for the Ravens, Turner for the Falcons, Urlacher for the Bears.

I wonder who our defense will be built around. Can't wait for the draft and the offseason acquisitions. :beer:

My guess is that he builds around a guy that is not yet a Denver Bronco. Terrell Suggs perhaps? Ray Maluaga?

omac
01-16-2009, 08:34 PM
My guess is that he builds around a guy that is not yet a Denver Bronco. Terrell Suggs perhaps? Ray Maluaga?

Maualuga looks great on the youtube vids. I'd love for him to be the leader of our defense.

The top rated DT is B.J. Raji, who's projected as a NT in the 3-4 or a DT in the 4-3. That's another prospect we might want to anchor our 3-4 defense. He's supposed to be really good, but has character flaws ... i.e. doesn't always give it his all, like Haynesworth.

In nfldraftcountdown, which currently has the wrong draft rankings of teams I think, Maualuga falls to #11, while Raji is at #20. I think we have a good chance at securing either.

Den21vsBal19
01-16-2009, 08:42 PM
I can't wait to see who Nolan builds his defense around.

There's always a player an offense or defense builds around; LT for SD's offense, Jay for the Broncos offense, Manning for the Colts, Ray Lewis for the Ravens, Turner for the Falcons, Urlacher for the Bears.

I wonder who our defense will be built around. Can't wait for the draft and the offseason acquisitions. :beer:

Nate Webster :behindsofa: :scared:

TXBRONC
01-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Maualuga looks great on the youtube vids. I'd love for him to be the leader of our defense.

The top rated DT is B.J. Raji, who's projected as a NT in the 3-4 or a DT in the 4-3. That's another prospect we might want to anchor our 3-4 defense. He's supposed to be really good, but has character flaws ... i.e. doesn't always give it his all, like Haynesworth.

In nfldraftcountdown, which currently has the wrong draft rankings of teams I think, Maualuga falls to #11, while Raji is at #20. I think we have a good chance at securing either.

If we're going to go 3-4 I think he should be the guy we taget first. NT are extremely hard to come by. I like Maualuga but linebacker is relatively easier to fill.

omac
01-16-2009, 09:19 PM
If we're going to go 3-4 I think he should be the guy we taget first. NT are extremely hard to come by. I like Maualuga but linebacker is relatively easier to fill.

Yeah, the rarity for someone who fits NT might mean we must get him; I just don't like it that he's described as not always giving his best. What is it with highly sought after NT's and their attitudes? :D

TXBRONC
01-16-2009, 09:33 PM
Yeah, the rarity for someone who fits NT might mean we must get him; I just don't like it that he's described as not always giving his best. What is it with highly sought after NT's and their attitudes? :D

Who knows? :whoknows: