PDA

View Full Version : Next years 2nd and 3rd string QBs



Davii
11-19-2011, 02:41 AM
Ok, so, let's assume Tim continues to improve and is our starter from the word go next year...

Who backs him up?

It's got to be someone familiar with the option, spread, etc. shouldn't be hard to find as more college QBs are running this type of offense than those running more of a "pro" style.

I think we draft a guy somewhere in middle to back Tim up. I also think Webber, currently sitting on our practice squad, now has a better shot at making the active roster.

Anyone have a can't miss draft guy that would be available in the mid rounds?

CrazyHorse
11-19-2011, 03:52 AM
Pat White, Robert Griffin III, or Joe Webb???

Joel
11-19-2011, 05:44 AM
Ok, so, let's assume Tim continues to improve and is our starter from the word go next year...

Who backs him up?

It's got to be someone familiar with the option, spread, etc. shouldn't be hard to find as more college QBs are running this type of offense than those running more of a "pro" style.

I think we draft a guy somewhere in middle to back Tim up. I also think Webber, currently sitting on our practice squad, now has a better shot at making the active roster.

Anyone have a can't miss draft guy that would be available in the mid rounds?
I was just about to post a poll about this, but decided to double check the main subforum page first; needless to say, I'm glad I did. :tongue:

I don't think it's as simple as grabbing some random late round option QB. The premise of Tebow as our long term QB is that he is more than that; if we did not believe him more, the whole idea of designing an offense around him would be absurd and disastrous. If he had not shown the potential to be more we would not even be considering him as a starter (indeed, that was precisely the reason many people, including me, long did NOT consider him as such.) In the short term, I am aware of no college QB with ability remotely comparable to Tebows (which doesn't mean much in itself, since I don't follow college ball, largely because I have no interest in football consisting of the QB option, Hail Marys and/or three yards and a cloud of dust.) The long term answer at back up may take time to discover.

In the short term, however, I do not think the answer is a rookie anyway, because that would leave us with a serious lack of experience at the position (in fact, that's largely true NOW; our "veteran QB" entered the League in '05.) I would rather the Broncos placed some calls to people who've already entered the League, like Donovan McNabb, David Carr and David Garrard. Vince Young would be a good choice in theory, but I don't think he quite has the necessary experience yet to take over when the offense captain goes down, and with Michael Vick working hard to wear out his welcome in Philly the Eagles probably wouldn't let Young go cheaply.

McNabb would be my first choice, because, while no longer in his prime, the arc of his progression is exactly what I'd like to see from Tebow: Once upon a time, no one respected McNabb as a passer, but his throws got more accurate and reliable over the course of his career, until defences feared his arm as much or more than his feet, making him a very scary QB. Not only would a proven player like that give Tebow access to the experience of an NFL QB who started as a runner and had to learn pro passing to succeed, it would ensure the Broncos had an experienced capable leader under center if Tebow were injured for an extended period.

That's a lot more appealing scenario than the prospect of having to develop our starter AND backup into quality pro passers. McNabb or Garrard could step into an offense designed around Tebow and succeed with minimal practice time, and are already quite familiar with how much faster and more complex pro defences are in comparison to those in college. With Garrard currently a spectator and the Vikings likely to release McNabb (Leslie Frazier is the biggest reason he's there, and Frazier may be looking for work himself next season) we would not have to get into a bidding war, trade away quality players or offer compensatory picks to get Tebows backup. Obviously, QBs in their late 30s are not a long term solution for Tebows backup, but they would buy us time to find the guy who is. By that time, Tebow will hopefully no longer be our offensive "project" and we'll have the luxury of focusing on his backups development.

Will ya'll start throwing things at me if I suggest BVP as Tebows backup? :tongue:

lgenf
11-19-2011, 07:53 AM
If Colin Klein is there in a late late round we may take him, but it is most likely he will be here and no one will take him, but we will extend him an invite to come on as a FA

He seems most likely to be able to back up Tebow is this offense

If you haven't heard the name, he is the man at K-State

Shazam!
11-19-2011, 08:12 AM
Depends on the FO after the season and if how far they think Tebow can take them. They can use draft picks to build around Tim and bring in a veteran FA QB (like Orton) to back him up and help him further, or use a middling pick on a QB for insurance. If they believe TT is their QB for the foreseeable future they wont spend a top pick on one I dont think. This team has great needs around the roster.

I also think this is early for this, have to see how Tim handles the next 6 games. If denver wins at least 3 or 4 of them, it's clearf they gotta go with tim, they wont have a choice. Thye dont want to further destroy fan sentiment either after the last few years of disarray.

I think personally, Denver's QB of the future is here now.

chazoe60
11-19-2011, 08:20 AM
I think this offense will look different next season. As Tim improves, and he will with a full offseason and professional coaching with no lockout, the offense will evolve into a more pro style look.

When those two philosophies (option run heavy O and pro style passing ) eventually meet somewhere in the middle, we are going to be one dangerous team.

My point is that whoever we bring in to back Tim up doen't necissarily have to be just a spread option type guy. I think a pro style guy will be fine as long as he has some mobility.

Ryan_the_Bucs_Fan
11-19-2011, 09:24 AM
I'd look for you guys to invest more in skill position players with major break away speed who will be a better fit for the option offense.

SmilinAssasSin27
11-19-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't think that any QB drafted will be in the mold of Tebow. It'll be the pure pocket guy, perhaps w/ some mobility. Tebow said himself that the play book has not really changed, although wrinkles to keep defenses honest have been included in the individual game plans. If Tebow doesn't work out, EFX isn't gonna want a clone of that style. His replacement won't be better at these wrinkles than him. If the replacement needs to be in there it will be because the wrinkles failed.

That said, RGIII or bust in this draft. I'm open to a late round QB project for depth, but if we get one early, I want the Baylor Bear.

elwayisgod
11-19-2011, 09:44 AM
They will not be running this offense next yr. Elway and Fox know rhis is short-term and will not lead to playoff wins. Tebow has to improve and learn to run something that resembles pro style offense. No matter what they need a qb next yr. They will not pigeon hole themselves into this offense. This offense has actually not been very good. We have been lucky we have played inept offenses for most part. Elway and Fox realize this. However, if we beat Bears, Pats, Chargers who the hell knows. Lets let entire season play out :)

Shazam!
11-19-2011, 09:56 AM
This offense is temporary and is only to make Tebow feel comfortable while he gains crucial experience as a Starter. No way they'll run this full time next year.

Agent of Orange
11-19-2011, 09:57 AM
They will not be running this offense next yr. Elway and Fox know rhis is short-term and will not lead to playoff wins. Tebow has to improve and learn to run something that resembles pro style offense. No matter what they need a qb next yr. They will not pigeon hole themselves into this offense. This offense has actually not been very good. We have been lucky we have played inept offenses for most part. Elway and Fox realize this. However, if we beat Bears, Pats, Chargers who the hell knows. Lets let entire season play out :)

Thats the case with most QBs. Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, etc. all became better passers once they entered the league, in some cases, it's been radically so. With everything else that Tebow brings to the table, he doesn't need to be able to pass the ball like Dan Marino. But it's not unreasonable to think that Tim will improve as a passer, given that this is what happens with most QBs once they enter the league.

The likelihood of Tebow improving as a passer is greater than someone bringing everything else that Tebow has.

Agent of Orange
11-19-2011, 10:02 AM
This offense is temporary and is only to make Tebow feel comfortable while he gains crucial experience as a Starter. No way they'll run this full time next year.

It may not be that temporary. For years people have been talking about not turning the ball over and playing complimentary football. This offense has become a hyper-intensive example of these old axioms. They may realize that this offense works because it chews up the clock and decreases the chance of turnovers. There will be times when they face other offenses that are on fire and we may lose 42-10 from time to time but they might look at the effect it has on most games. BTW, people keep talking about the whether or not this will work against teams like New England. It's hard to know if it will but, obviously, if Von and Doom can get pressure on Brady, it's not a certain loss. Im sure New England will throw even more screens that they normally do though.

FlyByU
11-19-2011, 10:03 AM
Weber Keep him and then Draft or get a FA with lots of mobility, a cool head, a gun for an arm, and football smart. What QB's will be available say 4-5th Rd with this type of talent. I would like to get Moore but doubt he is around after the 1st Rd and wont be in if he is in the 2nd rd.

Dapper Dan
11-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Mark Brunell.

hamrob
11-19-2011, 11:35 AM
I think both Orton and Quinn are out of here. Simply because they both want a chance to play. That's not going to happen in Denver.

I can see a slight possibility that Quinn isn't able to find an oppurtunity to start. If that is the case, he may choose to sign for 1-2 more years, simply to be in a system he already knows and teammates he's familiar with.

But, here's how I see it in 2012:

Tebow
Free Agent Vet (Jake Delhomme?)
Webber

I think the objective in the offseason will be to make Tebow a better QB. Meaning, having him play out of the pocket, read defense, go through his progressions, and get rid of the ball quickly. Additionally, we may see some ofthe delayed roll outs or pap rollouts that Jake Plummer used to run so well.

Having said that, I don't think they are going to care too much about the backups being in the mold of Tebow. I think they are going to want a VET who is comfortable in that role and who will provide support and development to Tebow.

This will be theire number 1 target if he is available. I'm not sure of his contract with Cleveland...but, Jake Delhomme is the perfect Vet backup for this situation. Look at how helpful he has been with Colt McCoy. Add to that, he's Foxey's guy. And surpisingly, he's only played 11yrs. He could be the vet backup we need for the next 3-4yrs. I like it.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DelhJa00.htm

jlarsiii
11-19-2011, 11:37 AM
I think this offense will look different next season. As Tim improves, and he will with a full offseason and professional coaching with no lockout, the offense will evolve into a more pro style look.

When those two philosophies (option run heavy O and pro style passing ) eventually meet somewhere in the middle, we are going to be one dangerous team.

My point is that whoever we bring in to back Tim up doen't necissarily have to be just a spread option type guy. I think a pro style guy will be fine as long as he has some mobility.

I am still waiting for proof that Tim can improve himself into a more pro style look. Even though wins are great we still haven't seen enough improvement in the throwing department to lead me to believe that the FO won't draft a QB fairly early in the draft. However, there is a lot of season left so let's see what Tebow does until the end of the season before trying to guess what the FO will do about the QB position. A lot can change from here to the end of the season...

vhatever
11-19-2011, 11:39 AM
The team needs a solid every down RB who isn't 30+ years old. a Legit number 1 receiver that can pull double teams and open up the field. Those are more important than a backup for tebow. Cause, if you have those pieces, you don't even neccisarilly need a guy who can run the ball like tebow if he does get injured. It will be hard to get a #1 receiver from trading, so they will probably try to draft one if they go that route.

BORDERLINE
11-19-2011, 11:47 AM
well if you are asking if Tebow will remain the starter next year who would his back ups be I would have to say look to a mobile/seasoned veteran. The likes of Seneca Wallace or Joe Webb/Tavaris Jackson. B-More has a third string QB Tyrod Taylor the kid is really raw but I can see him run this type of offense. But who ever is back-up has to be able to run with it no doubt. As for the third string we should draft a rookie depending on how they feel about Weber. This third string QB will be the prototypical drop-back passer and if the whole Tebow offense falters the 3rd string guy can effectively run a conventional offense.

Agent of Orange, you made a great point about us losing some games by a large deficit. I totally agree that this new offensive scheme is about chewing up clock, keeping the game close and not turning the ball over. Unless the opposing defense lays an egg I don't see us scoring 30 plus consistently but, that does not mean we will lose.

If things keep going well and tebow remains. I believe the defense should be up-graded adding a top corner and DT. And by doing that it helps the offense that we are running it's a win win situation.

And we can still expect Tebow to improve as a passer and when/IF all that comes together we will be a special team to watch!!!!

Shazam!
11-19-2011, 11:49 AM
You haven't seen improvement???

You think it's easy for the WRs to catch balls from a right-handed QB (Orton) to suddenly a lefty without an offseason to build it?

Chemistry doesn't come instantly.

With a whole offseason to work on his deficiencies and extra time with a QB Coach, Tim wil be improved next year. with his crazy work ethic and desire to get better at everything he does, he'll be fine.

Geez people, he hasn't played 10 games...

pnbronco
11-19-2011, 12:16 PM
When the team plays the Bears to the end of the season will tell me a lot of where we are at. There will be more film on them for teams to study and I don't think teams will let us be there trap game from now on.

Plus I hate to bring this up but McD won his first 6 games in a row and then there was that whole SI cover thing. BTW told you so on that.....:laugh:

Anyway, love the wins but I'm still going with a wait and see how the rest of the year plays out.

SM19
11-19-2011, 12:22 PM
Assuming for the moment that this offense is permanent, Northwestern's Dan Persa would probably be a good draft pick. He's a true dual-threat player who can throw accurately as well as run, he has plenty of experience in an offense that relies on a short, quick passing game and a spread option running attack, he's strong as an ox, and he's been very productive without a lot of weapons. I think he'd be able to step in for an injured Tim Tebow without changing the playbook and without much dropoff in quality of play. The only concerns are his height and his injury history, and the latter probably isn't terribly important for a backup quarterback who should have plenty of opportunity to recuperate.

Joel
11-19-2011, 01:00 PM
However much or little our playbook changes next year, if Tebow's our long term guy, it will be geared to his strengths. Consequently, any potential backup must share most of those strengths; we cannot rewrite the playbook if/when Tebow gets hurt, then expect the entire offense to re-learn a completely different style of play mid-season. That doesn't mean an option QB, because Tebows accuracy is already much improved (though still needing improvement) and we will continue developing that aspect of his game. It also doesn't mean a pro style pocket passer who lacks the ability to make throws on the run or tuck it away and run for a first down. Frankly, finding another QB like Tebow will be no easier than finding the first one and, even if one is present in next years draft, it is doubtful he'll remain available until Denvers first pick.

Necessity and reality almost obligate us to seek a veteran with a strong accurate arm and good mobility, who won't have to learn how to read a pro playbook, receiver progressions or defensive formations, or adjust to the speed of pro defences. We could well gamble on a late round option QB who shows flashes of potential to be a pocket passer and then make him our third string low priority project. A player like that could become a solid backup for the Tim Tebow of four years from now, when whatever veteran we grab for that job now is on his couch watching younger studs do his former job, but that's the way I'd like to see us go.

RebelRocker
11-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Assuming for the moment that this offense is permanent, Northwestern's Dan Persa would probably be a good draft pick. He's a true dual-threat player who can throw accurately as well as run, he has plenty of experience in an offense that relies on a short, quick passing game and a spread option running attack, he's strong as an ox, and he's been very productive without a lot of weapons. I think he'd be able to step in for an injured Tim Tebow without changing the playbook and without much dropoff in quality of play. The only concerns are his height and his injury history, and the latter probably isn't terribly important for a backup quarterback who should have plenty of opportunity to recuperate.

Persa is a warrior. I'd love to see him in Blue and Orange.:salute:

Locnar
11-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Assuming for the moment that this offense is permanent, Northwestern's Dan Persa would probably be a good draft pick. He's a true dual-threat player who can throw accurately as well as run, he has plenty of experience in an offense that relies on a short, quick passing game and a spread option running attack, he's strong as an ox, and he's been very productive without a lot of weapons. I think he'd be able to step in for an injured Tim Tebow without changing the playbook and without much dropoff in quality of play. The only concerns are his height and his injury history, and the latter probably isn't terribly important for a backup quarterback who should have plenty of opportunity to recuperate.

I've watched him hurt Iowa to many times, so I know what he is capable of. I think he could be a solid back up.

RebelRocker
11-19-2011, 05:05 PM
I've watched him hurt Iowa to many times, so I know what he is capable of. I think he could be a solid back up.

From everything I've seen, Persa is the definition of a "gamer". The dude has fought back from injuries to put up great stats. There's certainly a difference when he's in Northwestern's lineup and when he's not.

hamrob
11-20-2011, 12:52 AM
However much or little our playbook changes next year, if Tebow's our long term guy, it will be geared to his strengths. Consequently, any potential backup must share most of those strengths; we cannot rewrite the playbook if/when Tebow gets hurt, then expect the entire offense to re-learn a completely different style of play mid-season. That doesn't mean an option QB, because Tebows accuracy is already much improved (though still needing improvement) and we will continue developing that aspect of his game. It also doesn't mean a pro style pocket passer who lacks the ability to make throws on the run or tuck it away and run for a first down. Frankly, finding another QB like Tebow will be no easier than finding the first one and, even if one is present in next years draft, it is doubtful he'll remain available until Denvers first pick.

Necessity and reality almost obligate us to seek a veteran with a strong accurate arm and good mobility, who won't have to learn how to read a pro playbook, receiver progressions or defensive formations, or adjust to the speed of pro defences. We could well gamble on a late round option QB who shows flashes of potential to be a pocket passer and then make him our third string low priority project. A player like that could become a solid backup for the Tim Tebow of four years from now, when whatever veteran we grab for that job now is on his couch watching younger studs do his former job, but that's the way I'd like to see us go.Many of you are as bad as the media....thinking that we have changed our entire offense for Tebow. Simply because he doesn't have the skillset to throw the rock.

We haven't changed the playbook folks....and we won't! Sooner or later you will start to understand that.

We added plays that Tebow is familiar with this help utilize his talents...right now...but, he will need to throw down the field and we will work with him until he is proficient at the current offense...running options etc. to keep teams honest.

Even Tebow keeps saying...we're doing things to confuse defenses. We dont' need guys who can't throw the rock efficiently. You don't believe me??

Wait and see. Elway is serious about making a QB out of Tebow. His backups will be guys we think can play QB...not running back.

Joel
11-20-2011, 01:51 AM
Many of you are as bad as the media....thinking that we have changed our entire offense for Tebow. Simply because he doesn't have the skillset to throw the rock.

We haven't changed the playbook folks....and we won't! Sooner or later you will start to understand that.

We added plays that Tebow is familiar with this help utilize his talents...right now...but, he will need to throw down the field and we will work with him until he is proficient at the current offense...running options etc. to keep teams honest.

Even Tebow keeps saying...we're doing things to confuse defenses. We dont' need guys who can't throw the rock efficiently. You don't believe me??

Wait and see. Elway is serious about making a QB out of Tebow. His backups will be guys we think can play QB...not running back.
We're going to have an offense that plays to Tebows strengths for the length of his stay in Denver, be it ten weeks or ten years. Unless the greatest of those strengths is passing by the end of this season (which seems highly dubious,) that will mean either getting a backup with similar abilities next year or trying to teach the same dozen offensive players the "Tebow playbook" and the "regular playbook." Since that second option is never in a million years going to happen on a pro team, I expect us to take the first.

I like Tebow, and I like him as a passer. He doesn't hand the D gimmes, he doesn't dink and dunk, he doesn't force balls (Jay Cutler will be lethal if he ever un-learns that habit he got from Favre) and he's gotten more accurate each week for the past month. A month is still not very long, and two months isn't much longer. I think he's very likely to become solid passer, and much sooner than I or most people outside FL expected, but he's still got a fair ways to go. The steady improvement has been remarkable in its pace, but it's still unclear how much better he can get, and he's almost certain to hit at least one or two temporary walls at some point.

All of that means we're going to have an offense that plays to his running ability for some time; whether that's just in terms of playcalling or the overall scheme is largely semantics, because the practical effect is the same. That requires us to have a quality backup who can run the plays the first team offense practices every week all year, because sooner or later Tebow is going to miss some games. The Colts have had the best line in football for the past decade; Peyton Manning's still out for the season. What a difference that has made: I do not want to start down that road when things finally look like they're turning around for us. I'd sign McNabb in the off season and keep my eye out for a third string rookie who at least faintly resembles Tebow.

Thestrategist1
11-20-2011, 02:30 AM
Mark Brunell.

Good Idea!!!!

bcbronc
11-20-2011, 05:02 AM
You think it's easy for the WRs to catch balls from a right-handed QB (Orton) to suddenly a lefty without an offseason to build it?



for a WR in the NFL? Yes I do actually.

as for the draft, imo if a QB is the top rated player available when we're on the clock, you still have to take him. Tebow has played well enough to have earned the right to be the starter going into training camp next season, and well enough that we don't need to trade up or be overly aggressive looking to draft a QB.

But on the other hand, he hasn't played so well that QB should be taken off the draft board either. imo.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-20-2011, 10:01 AM
At this point, unless Tebow totally collapses which I can't see happening, I think the best idea is not to draft a QB, go with Weber and sign a vet who can mentor Tebow with his reads and quick decision making. If Brunell is released by the Jets or retires, I'd love to bring him in to be Tebow's QB coach/backup.

Honestly, If we're going to continue to be a run-first team as I suspect with Fox, RBs/O-line become our biggest priority (and re-signing Bunkley long term - he's been a stalwart for us). I can actually see us going after Richardson from 'Bama in the draft if he falls. McGahee is playing very well right now, but he's not the long term answer for us. Unless we see some something out of Ball or Johnson that proves they are more than just backups, upgrading the RB position will be necessary. I like Moreno and think he'd be great in a more zone-scheme that we're currently running, but his injury history has made him unreliable and expendable.

I see us going after RBs and O-line depth in this draft more than anything.

jlarsiii
11-20-2011, 11:20 AM
We're going to have an offense that plays to Tebows strengths for the length of his stay in Denver, be it ten weeks or ten years. Unless the greatest of those strengths is passing by the end of this season (which seems highly dubious,) that will mean either getting a backup with similar abilities next year or trying to teach the same dozen offensive players the "Tebow playbook" and the "regular playbook." Since that second option is never in a million years going to happen on a pro team, I expect us to take the first.

I like Tebow, and I like him as a passer. He doesn't hand the D gimmes, he doesn't dink and dunk, he doesn't force balls (Jay Cutler will be lethal if he ever un-learns that habit he got from Favre) and he's gotten more accurate each week for the past month. A month is still not very long, and two months isn't much longer. I think he's very likely to become solid passer, and much sooner than I or most people outside FL expected, but he's still got a fair ways to go. The steady improvement has been remarkable in its pace, but it's still unclear how much better he can get, and he's almost certain to hit at least one or two temporary walls at some point.

All of that means we're going to have an offense that plays to his running ability for some time; whether that's just in terms of playcalling or the overall scheme is largely semantics, because the practical effect is the same. That requires us to have a quality backup who can run the plays the first team offense practices every week all year, because sooner or later Tebow is going to miss some games. The Colts have had the best line in football for the past decade; Peyton Manning's still out for the season. What a difference that has made: I do not want to start down that road when things finally look like they're turning around for us. I'd sign McNabb in the off season and keep my eye out for a third string rookie who at least faintly resembles Tebow.

What are you talking about specifically? I have not seen his accuracy increase, and I would like to know what you think is his steady improvement...

Davii
11-20-2011, 10:44 PM
What are you talking about specifically? I have not seen his accuracy increase, and I would like to know what you think is his steady improvement...

His passing has gotten better, whether it shows in completion % or not, his throws are quicker and more on target. He does have a way to go in that respect.

He has shown a lot more of an ability to read a defense, not just pre-snap, but during a play, especially the option plays. His footwork has improved, his decision making skills have improved, he doesn't look scared or nervous in the pocket any more, and he has actually thrown the ball away when faced with quick pressure.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-20-2011, 10:54 PM
His passing has gotten better, whether it shows in completion % or not, his throws are tinker and more on target. He does have a way to go in that respect.

He has shown a lot more of an ability to read a defense, not just pre-snap, but during a play, especially the option plays. His footwork has improved, his decision making skills have improved, he doesn't look scared or nervous in the pocket any more, and he has actually thrown the ball away when faced with quick pressure.

The NFL crew, who Tebow sat down with after the Thursday night game, were very impressed when Tebow described to them exactly what the Jets were doing on defense when he ran the touchdown in.

dunk7
11-21-2011, 12:10 AM
His passing has gotten better, whether it shows in completion % or not, his throws are quicker and more on target. He does have a way to go in that respect.

He has shown a lot more of an ability to read a defense, not just pre-snap, but during a play, especially the option plays. His footwork has improved, his decision making skills have improved, he doesn't look scared or nervous in the pocket any more, and he has actually thrown the ball away when faced with quick pressure.

So completion percentage doesn't indicate whether or not passes are on target...I guess miles per gallon doesn't indicate how fuel efficient your car is. I just don't get where people see a huge improvements when he's averaging only 7 completions in his last 3 games. Please read an interesting article below. Coles notes is that Denver's defence and special teams are winning the games, not Tebow.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/11/how-is-tebow-winning.html#more

Davii
11-21-2011, 12:21 AM
So completion percentage doesn't indicate whether or not passes are on target...I guess miles per gallon doesn't indicate how fuel efficient your car is. I just don't get where people see a huge improvements when he's averaging only 7 completions in his last 3 games. Please read an interesting article below. Coles notes is that Denver's defence and special teams are winning the games, not Tebow.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/11/how-is-tebow-winning.html#more

I think everyone knows that the defense has been phenomenal. Watch the Jets game and the Miami game again and tell me Tim's passes haven't been more accurate. Like it or not, missing a pass by a foot is more accurate than missing it by ten. Tim has had passes dropped quite a bit in the lady two games, difficult catches, but the receivers had a chance... More than could be said a month ago.

dunk7
11-21-2011, 12:35 AM
I think everyone knows that the defense has been phenomenal. Watch the Jets game and the Miami game again and tell me Tim's passes haven't been more accurate. Like it or not, missing a pass by a foot is more accurate than missing it by ten. Tim has had passes dropped quite a bit in the lady two games, difficult catches, but the receivers had a chance... More than could be said a month ago.

I see your point now, definitely the number of WTF passes decreased vs. the Jets. Not going to lay blame on the WR's until he starts throwing on target spirals. Lots of tough football to come so I'll definitely reserve judgement until we see him against stiffer competition.

Davii
11-21-2011, 03:44 AM
I see your point now, definitely the number of WTF passes decreased vs. the Jets. Not going to lay blame on the WR's until he starts throwing on target spirals. Lots of tough football to come so I'll definitely reserve judgement until we see him against stiffer competition.

There have been a couple I would put on the receivers, but an equal number of good catches too, see Rosario's sliding catch on Drive 95. Point is, the number of uncatchable balls has dropped significantly. If he continues to improve I expect to see a much more balanced attack by the end of the season.

Joel
11-21-2011, 05:35 AM
What are you talking about specifically? I have not seen his accuracy increase, and I would like to know what you think is his steady improvement...
I have seen his accuracy increase; when he first took over as a starter a LOT of his passes were WAY off the mark. He made the kind of throws that make me sincerely ask, "Who was THAT to?" and a lot of his "sideline" passes looked more like "third row of the stands" passes. He did it habitually, then less often, then seldom and now almost never. That's steady improvement.

He doesn't regularly throw balls into the dirt five yards in front of open receivers any more; it still happens sometimes, but even Manning does it occasionally. With Tebow it was routine for the first couple weeks, but now it's uncommon; that's improvement.

When he first took over as starter, Tebows passes were all over the place and left me regularly yelling at my screen on more occasions than I can count. Following that, an increasing number of his passes were at least in the vicinity (I could actually identify the intended receiver! :tongue: ) Now almost all his passes are at least close, like the one Decker juggled against the Raiders, and some of them (like the one slipped over Deckers shoulder in stride en route to the end zone against the Chiefs) are downright beautiful. The only reason Tebow did not FINALLY have >50% completions Thursday was that his receivers came down with an (almost terminal) case of dropsy; his 9/20 night was still only one completion away from 50%. That's steady improvement.

He's far from perfect, and I want more accuracy from him, but the strides he's made are significant and encourage me to believe he can not only get where I want, but soon. That's from a guy who's always valued accuracy over arm strength (by the same token, however, I value hands over speed in receivers.) In my humble opinion, unless Tebow plateaus or has a major setback in the next few weeks he will improve to the level of a perfectly satisfactory second year passer who remains a terrifying rushing threat. Unless he slumps next year, an offseason glued to Elway and practicing daily should make him a franchise QB Denver will be honored and grateful to have on our roster for the next decade.

I have yet to hear of any college player who'll be at the same level on Opening Day of 2012, and Tebow has convinced me he has the ability, desire and work ethic to improve at least as quickly as any potential rookie replacement. Consequently, I'm forced to ask why anyone would want to take a rookie QB in the hopes he MIGHT get better when we already have a more developed one we KNOW is getting better. Anyone we draft will need work to get to where Tebow already is, so at the END of next season--if we're lucky--the same development that would turn Tebow into a great passer next year might make that rookie one the FOLLOWING year. Or he might be the next Ryan Leaf, in which case we blew it, big time.