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Tned
11-18-2011, 12:56 AM
Ok, I know there are a crap load of threads about this game, but I think this one deserves its own discussion.

In the post game interview when they asked him to explain the running TD, he went through a long explanation about how it was only the second all out blitz, that someone (can't remember who he said) crashed hard off the left side, that the receivers were all bunched/wide to the right, and that with the pressure coming, it was a low percentage throw and didn't want to risk a tip or interception. When the defender crashed down he knew he only had one man to beat and had a linemen get out with him.

I thought when I heard that, so much for all the "he looks once, freaks out and runs" and then after the interview, Mooch brought that up and talked about how a lot of guys would have no idea what happened in that type of situation under that pressure, but that he knew exactly what was going on, how many times that blitz had been run in the game, analyzed the odds, and made a decision. Said that's a real student of the game.

threefolddead
11-18-2011, 01:03 AM
Absolutely. I heard the same thing and was impressed. He's learning a lot and I continue to be amazed with what the coaching staff is creating to make him effective and help him ease into the NFL. Watching that interview you could tell the analysts wanted to tell him everything the Broncos are doing wrong and why they shouldn't be winning but hey, look at the scoreboard. It's an amazing job of coaching when it comes down to it, especially when you look back on Fox's career and see how set in his ways he can be.

camdisco24
11-18-2011, 01:05 AM
Tebow is so much smarter than people give him credit for.

This is proof.

TT15Superman
11-18-2011, 01:09 AM
A picture is worth 1000 words.

http://i.minus.com/1321639404/mIowsRWBJAmjIFTDbd3Nyw/i7pcEBSfWS52z.gif

sneakers
11-18-2011, 01:09 AM
You have 8 defenders all mooshed together at the line of scrimage, i dont think it was that hard a decision.

Dapper Dan
11-18-2011, 01:11 AM
Jim Leonard. Safety from Wisconsin, I believe. Not many white guys out there. Pretty easy to keep up with. Lol.

I totally agree. He's a smart guy. He studies the game. Many haters overlook that.

TXBRONC
11-18-2011, 01:13 AM
Ok, I know there are a crap load of threads about this game, but I think this one deserves its own discussion.

In the post game interview when they asked him to explain the running TD, he went through a long explanation about how it was only the second all out blitz, that someone (can't remember who he said) crashed hard off the left side, that the receivers were all bunched/wide to the right, and that with the pressure coming, it was a low percentage throw and didn't want to risk a tip or interception. When the defender crashed down he knew he only had one man to beat and had a linemen get out with him.

I thought when I heard that, so much for all the "he looks once, freaks out and runs" and then after the interview, Mooch brought that up and talked about how a lot of guys would have no idea what happened in that type of situation under that pressure, but that he knew exactly what was going on, how many times that blitz had been run in the game, analyzed the odds, and made a decision. Said that's a real student of the game.

I remember that part of the interview and that gives me hope that maybe things will turn ok. Analysis' have said he didn't know how to read defenses but that doesn't mean he can't learn with more experience. In many respects he's better quarterback today than he was five weeks ago. He just has to find a way to get better a passing the ball.

TXBRONC
11-18-2011, 01:15 AM
You have 8 defenders all mooshed together at the line of scrimage, i dont think it was that hard a decision.

I think the point Tned was trying to make is Tim read the defense.

wayninja
11-18-2011, 01:17 AM
It's obvious the guy isn't panicking when most his runs go for good gains. It was a good 'read', a smart decision, and more importantly, 7 points when down by 3 with a minute left to play.

Well done.

BORDERLINE
11-18-2011, 01:30 AM
What a beast of a play that was!!!!!

After watching countless Orton phantom sacks and shoe string fetal position plays where he just doesn't give that effort. This win makes me feel great.

NFL network should have brought out Miller and Tebow for the post game. The defense was the main event tonight. Tebow pulled it out in the end but this Defense was something else today!!!!

TXBRONC
11-18-2011, 01:35 AM
What a beast of a play that was!!!!!

After watching countless Orton phantom sacks and shoe string fetal position plays where he just doesn't give that effort. This win makes me feel great.

NFL network should have brought out Miller and Tebow for the post game. The defense was the main event tonight. Tebow pulled it out in the end but this Defense was something else today!!!!

The first thing I thought of after Tebow scored the game winning touchdown, it Orton had been behind center with 95 yards forget about it.

Canmore
11-18-2011, 01:40 AM
The defense played awesome. They only gave up one touchdown and that was on a recovered fumble in the end-zone. Sanchez is going to have nightmares about Von Miller. Goodman had a pick six. Total team effort by the defense.

With 6 minutes left in the game Tebow hiked the Broncos up on his shoulders and delivered the 95 yard game winning drive. With the game on the line Tim has been stellar. Whatever IT is, he certainly seems to have it in bunches.

Overall, great team win.

sneakers
11-18-2011, 01:42 AM
Jim Leonard. Safety from Wisconsin, I believe. Not many white guys out there. Pretty easy to keep up with. Lol.

I totally agree. He's a smart guy. He studies the game. Many haters overlook that.

LOL they only used him as a punt returner at Wisconsin. I don't think he played much at safety. Very surprised he made it to the NFL.

horsepig
11-18-2011, 01:48 AM
What a beast of a play that was!!!!!

After watching countless Orton phantom sacks and shoe string fetal position plays where he just doesn't give that effort. This win makes me feel great.

NFL network should have brought out Miller and Tebow for the post game. The defense was the main event tonight. Tebow pulled it out in the end but this Defense was something else today!!!!

Right on brother the defense won this game. They are believing that good things can happen here.

broncobryce
11-18-2011, 01:57 AM
These guys keep saying, "You know he's going to run, you can't allow that." It's one thing to know it, but another to stop it.
Great players make plays.

Canmore
11-18-2011, 01:58 AM
Right on brother the defense won this game. They are believing that good things can happen here.

Defense was awesome. They only gave up one touchdown and that was on a fumble recovery in the end-zone. Goodman had a pick six and Sanchez is going to have nightmares about Von Miller.

With the game on the line and 6 minutes to play, Tim Tebow hiked the Broncos up on his shoulders and delivered a 95 yard touchdown drive erasing 5 minutes from the clock. Whatever IT is, Tebow has it in baskets.

Total team victory. On to San Diego.

Dapper Dan
11-18-2011, 01:59 AM
LOL they only used him as a punt returner at Wisconsin. I don't think he played much at safety. Very surprised he made it to the NFL.

Hard worker.

Joel
11-18-2011, 02:17 AM
Ok, I know there are a crap load of threads about this game, but I think this one deserves its own discussion.

In the post game interview when they asked him to explain the running TD, he went through a long explanation about how it was only the second all out blitz, that someone (can't remember who he said)
Jim Leonhard, which shows he was definitely paying attention, 'cos that dude was all over the place doing his best Dawkins impression tonight.
crashed hard off the left side, that the receivers were all bunched/wide to the right, and that with the pressure coming, it was a low percentage throw and didn't want to risk a tip or interception. When the defender crashed down he knew he only had one man to beat and had a linemen get out with him.

I thought when I heard that, so much for all the "he looks once, freaks out and runs" and then after the interview, Mooch brought that up and talked about how a lot of guys would have no idea what happened in that type of situation under that pressure, but that he knew exactly what was going on, how many times that blitz had been run in the game, analyzed the odds, and made a decision. Said that's a real student of the game.
The thing I liked best about that part was the comment that he didn't want to risk the interception, because how many times have we seen an overconfident QB (especially at the start of their career) blow an easy FG that would've forced overtime by trying to force a game winning TD? Tebow already avoids the biggest mistake young QBs make (Favre did it his whole career, thereby negatively influencing a generation of QBs like Cutler.) That could explain why he took so many sacks his first few starts: He didn't want to just put it for grabs and wasn't used to how much faster NFL Ds reach the QB when they aren't teammates and aren't worried about breaking his pride or legs. I haven't heard it mentioned as often as his raw athleticism, or even his work ethic, but every now and again I hear someone comment that Tebow's also very smart. He DOES have all the pieces; the question has always been whether that would be enough to justify the significant amount of time needed to augment his staggering ability with skills indispensable in the NFL despite being irrelevant in the Greatest (Amateur) Conference of All Time. The biggest variable there has been how steep the learning curve would be, how many losses would his team absorb before he reached the next level, whether he could make the transition before fickle fans screaming for his head after a seemingly interminable string of brutal losses convinced the owner to dump him.

It's still too soon to say whether that question has been answered, but with only 7 games left this year Tebow can probably secure his job at least through the start of next season with just one or two more wins (and we still play the Vikings.) Unless he hits a wall of some kind his rate of development to this point looks like another year may be all he needs to become a brilliant PASSING star. To really ice it though we need to be calling more runs, and his receivers need to be making more catches; if that happens even a marginal improvement in his accuracy would be enough for now (with the expectation of further moderate improvement over the next year or two making him a "franchise" QB.) Bottom line is that the many positives about Tebow still remain, the question of whether they could transition to the NFL HAS been answered, and the equally numerous negatives are diminishing (though all remain present.) A month ago he was a better QB than Orton (big deal,) now he's a better QB than he was a month ago, and if he can continue improving at close to the same rate he should be adequate by the end of the year, dangerous by the end of next year and scary by the end of the following one. Beware, however, NFL adjustments to unconventional QBs once they have a half season of game tape. ;)

OrangeHoof
11-18-2011, 03:35 AM
Once I saw that he'd passed the crashing safety, I yelled "he's gone!" because I just don't see how anyone had the angle on him and, when he's determined, no corner is going to bring him down one-on-one.

NFL Network had a fascinating graphic before the game - Elway's numbers vs. Tebow's numbers over his first seven starts. Tebow had more wins, more passing yds, more rushing yds, higher completion pct., etc. It was very impressive. Of course, there were no complaints about Elway's passing motion back in 1983, nor should there have been. Tebow will never have Elway's cannon.

spikerman
11-18-2011, 07:22 AM
LOL they only used him as a punt returner at Wisconsin. I don't think he played much at safety. Very surprised he made it to the NFL.

I think it was actually Eric Smith, but I'm not positive.

TXBRONC
11-18-2011, 08:18 AM
I think it was actually Eric Smith, but I'm not positive.

On that play did you see the great job the official did calling the touchdown? He was mechanically sound and I wouldn't doubt if he has the quickest hand signal in the pros.

BigDaddyBronco
11-18-2011, 08:18 AM
I think it was actually Eric Smith, but I'm not positive.

It was.

TXBRONC
11-18-2011, 08:21 AM
The defense played awesome. They only gave up one touchdown and that was on a recovered fumble in the end-zone. Sanchez is going to have nightmares about Von Miller. Goodman had a pick six. Total team effort by the defense.

With 6 minutes left in the game Tebow hiked the Broncos up on his shoulders and delivered the 95 yard game winning drive. With the game on the line Tim has been stellar. Whatever IT is, he certainly seems to have it in bunches.

Overall, great team win.

It's amazing how much this defense has improved over the last several weeks.

Mike
11-18-2011, 08:52 AM
I really love what Allen and Fox are doing with the defense. Miller is beyond exceeding my expectations. The DT positions don't look like weaknesses. It is nothing short of amazing considering how bad we were on defense last year. Makes you wonder if it wasn't just bad coaching teaching bad fundamentals.

Tebow. Love the kid. I wish the Broncos could bring in someone to really work with him. I don't think Gase or McCoy are up to it. Bringing in a good QB coach and teaching him better fundamentals would help the team so much.

I still don't like McCoy and wish the team would let Tebow do more of that last drive than try to contain him. But as long as the defense can keep the score close, the offense can afford to play uber conservative. I just think that they don't have to play it so tight and if they allow Tebow to do that in the 1st qtr then it will put the defense back on their heels and open up the receivers a bit more. Denver has tons of potential with Tebow and I wish they would tap it and jump on teams.

claymore
11-18-2011, 08:54 AM
Ok, I know there are a crap load of threads about this game, but I think this one deserves its own discussion.

In the post game interview when they asked him to explain the running TD, he went through a long explanation about how it was only the second all out blitz, that someone (can't remember who he said) crashed hard off the left side, that the receivers were all bunched/wide to the right, and that with the pressure coming, it was a low percentage throw and didn't want to risk a tip or interception. When the defender crashed down he knew he only had one man to beat and had a linemen get out with him.

I thought when I heard that, so much for all the "he looks once, freaks out and runs" and then after the interview, Mooch brought that up and talked about how a lot of guys would have no idea what happened in that type of situation under that pressure, but that he knew exactly what was going on, how many times that blitz had been run in the game, analyzed the odds, and made a decision. Said that's a real student of the game.

I am impressed with his knowledge of this type of system. Very Impressed. In all honesty I thought the kid was a moron.

Man if he can work on his throws... Man oh man...

TXBRONC
11-18-2011, 09:19 AM
I am impressed with his knowledge of this type of system. Very Impressed. In all honesty I thought the kid was a moron.

Man if he can work on his throws... Man oh man...

I agree that if Tebow can improve his passing we would just might have the makings of a great quarterback. However I think there is little chance of it happening over the course of this season. If he's going to improve he's going to need an entire offseason devoted to improving his passing skills.

claymore
11-18-2011, 09:42 AM
I agree that if Tebow can improve his passing we would just might have the makings of a great quarterback. However I think there is little chance of it happening over the course of this season. If he's going to improve he's going to need an entire offseason devoted to improving his passing skills.

Yeah I actually defended Tebow at work today. FML, im losing my mind with this kid!!!

He needs a full offseason where he is the unquestioned leader. Im excited for next year, and the talent we add thru the draft.

2 more years and we might be a good team boys... Im scared to get my hopes up though. :(

Tned
11-18-2011, 09:48 AM
I am impressed with his knowledge of this type of system. Very Impressed. In all honesty I thought the kid was a moron.

Man if he can work on his throws... Man oh man...

His throwing really has come a long way. I have to rewatch, but he had somewhere between 2 and 5 legit drops last night. Even those aside, there were no awful throws. One bad miss because he was hit while throwing and another throw away out of bounds. The over throw of Decker was bad, but that happens to every QB, let's be real about that. .5-1 yard shorter and it's a TD.

The other misses were slightly over leading the a few receivers, which when Orton threw the same thing (or Sanchez or anyone else), they would say "he put the ball where only the receiver could make a play on it"

slim
11-18-2011, 09:53 AM
The 9-20 is a little misleading because of the drops, but he missed some wide open WR last night....just flat missed.

I think a full offseason working with the coaches can go a long way to correcting that.

Tned
11-18-2011, 09:55 AM
The 9-20 is a little misleading because of the drops, but he missed some wide open WR last night....just flat missed.

I think a full offseason working with the coaches can go a long way to correcting that.

Of course he did, Slim. Not saying every miss had a reason, but what QB, especially ones in their 8th start, doesn't miss receivers?

My issue is that Tebow is graded differently than any other QB. Don't get me wrong, I told friends that I'm not sure I saw a worse QB performance for 55 minutes during the Miami game. However, after those first two games, his passing has gotten much better, and no other young QB would get graded the same way.

vettesplus
11-18-2011, 10:05 AM
he can be smart as hell but that does not fix his throwing abilities... and thats the big problem and the million $$ ?? for the future of tt and the broncos

slim
11-18-2011, 10:14 AM
Of course he did, Slim. Not saying every miss had a reason, but what QB, especially ones in their 8th start, doesn't miss receivers?

My issue is that Tebow is graded differently than any other QB. Don't get me wrong, I told friends that I'm not sure I saw a worse QB performance for 55 minutes during the Miami game. However, after those first two games, his passing has gotten much better, and no other young QB would get graded the same way.

I agree with you completely.

There are plenty of young QBs that struggle with accuracy...and plenty that overcome it.

Tned
11-21-2011, 08:36 AM
I agree with you completely.

There are plenty of young QBs that struggle with accuracy...and plenty that overcome it.

I watched some of Ponder, some of Gabbert and a couple other youngsters that I'm drawing a blank on right now (still half asleep). Not only were there a bunch of interceptions, there were a lot of bad throws.

While there is no doubt that Tebow has made plenty of bad throws, I am amazed how each pass is being micro-analyzed, when virtually all young QBs struggle with accuracy and consistency.

Further, I'm amazed that the critics (fans & analysts) refuse to acknowledge the fact that he's clearly made strides over the last five games. Many of his misses in his first two starts were by yards, in the last couple games, his misses have been by inches. That's significant improvement, but doesn't necessarily translate to the stat sheet, especially when you factor in drops.

chazoe60
11-21-2011, 08:43 AM
I watched some of Ponder, some of Gabbert and a couple other youngsters that I'm drawing a blank on right now (still half asleep). Not only were there a bunch of interceptions, there were a lot of bad throws.

While there is no doubt that Tebow has made plenty of bad throws, I am amazed how each pass is being micro-analyzed, when virtually all young QBs struggle with accuracy and consistency.

Further, I'm amazed that the critics (fans & analysts) refuse to acknowledge the fact that he's clearly made strides over the last five games. Many of his misses in his first two starts were by yards, in the last couple games, his misses have been by inches. That's significant improvement, but doesn't necessarily translate to the stat sheet, especially when you factor in drops.

Hell, how many times have we seen Joe Flacco look terrible this season? You don't see all these idiots in the media saying he can't play QB in the NFL.

Tebow IMO is a guy that can win as he developes, which is a rarity.

Giving up on a guy like him would he a huge mistake.

Tned
11-21-2011, 08:51 AM
Hell, how many times have we seen Joe Flacco look terrible this season? You don't see all these idiots in the media saying he can't play QB in the NFL.

Tebow IMO is a guy that can win as he developes, which is a rarity.

Giving up on a guy like him would he a huge mistake.

'm not quite as confident as some of you guys, but I've definitely been in the camp of not giving him a shot at developing would be a mistake. Broncos need to see what they have. They need to start increasing his passing plays, and not just 3rd and long or other obvious passing situations.

They need to draft another QB, so if he finishes the year strong and continues to make strides in the passing game, then maybe you draft a QB in the mid rounds. If he struggles down the stretch or shows no improvement in the passing game, then maybe you get a QB in the first two rounds and let the two young QBs battle it out for the starting job.

You could go into next year with Tebow leading a run-heavy offense, but be developing the young QB. That provides options. If Tebow really develops well, then trade the young guy after a year or so, or if Tebow doesn't develop, start the young guy. Going this route gives us the QB depth we need, and doesn't risk the rest of the team developing to the point of being a contender and saying "oops, we need a QB now."

catfish
11-21-2011, 08:59 AM
I watched some of Ponder, some of Gabbert and a couple other youngsters that I'm drawing a blank on right now (still half asleep). Not only were there a bunch of interceptions, there were a lot of bad throws.

While there is no doubt that Tebow has made plenty of bad throws, I am amazed how each pass is being micro-analyzed, when virtually all young QBs struggle with accuracy and consistency.

Further, I'm amazed that the critics (fans & analysts) refuse to acknowledge the fact that he's clearly made strides over the last five games. Many of his misses in his first two starts were by yards, in the last couple games, his misses have been by inches. That's significant improvement, but doesn't necessarily translate to the stat sheet, especially when you factor in drops.

I will follow that up by saying I was watching the Bears game and seeing the difference in the adjusments on routes by the WR when the ball was in the air was night and day...not a knock on Denver's recievers, they are young and I think the whole team will grow together, just saying that when a reciever makes a play it can make a less than great pass look good

Tned
11-21-2011, 09:01 AM
I will follow that up by saying I was watching the Bears game and seeing the difference in the adjusments on routes by the WR when the ball was in the air was night and day...not a knock on Denver's recievers, they are young and I think the whole team will grow together, just saying that when a reciever makes a play it can make a less than great pass look good

Any other QB in the league, if the ball hits the receiver in the hands, even if the receiver has to jump, the announcers say, "this is the NFL, the receiver has to come up with the catch if it hits his hands." With Tebow, like on the Decker bobble/drop, they say, "that was a horrible throw. An NFL quarterback has to make a better throw."

BroncoJoe
11-21-2011, 09:14 AM
I've also noticed how wide open other teams receivers seem to get. Even I could throw it to them.

catfish
11-21-2011, 09:53 AM
Any other QB in the league, if the ball hits the receiver in the hands, even if the receiver has to jump, the announcers say, "this is the NFL, the receiver has to come up with the catch if it hits his hands." With Tebow, like on the Decker bobble/drop, they say, "that was a horrible throw. An NFL quarterback has to make a better throw."

link to another thread where a mod did a breakdown of the passes...interesting read

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101435