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lex
01-12-2009, 08:00 AM
I dont have a link. Someone posted this at the Mane.


The most famous Mike Nolan story, before he became coach of the 49ers, was about vanilla ice cream.

Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder, the story goes, placed a carton of vanilla ice cream in Nolan's office, where it was allowed to melt into a sticky mess. The mean-spirited prank underscored the owner's criticism of his defensive coordinator's read-and-react philosophy, which Snyder had termed "vanilla."

That story was considered just another in the Snyder-as-meddling-owner file. But it's worth remembering now. Because Nolan's philosophy and his defense's inability to make the big stop and get off the field — all of that is bringing back the images of vanilla ice cream.

When Nolan has been asked this week what's wrong with the defense, he has turned the issue back on his players, using words such as "errors" and "mistakes."

"In the last two weeks, we've made several errors on our own account and have hurt ourselves," Nolan said. "Some have been technique, some have been mental."

None, though, apparently have been scheme or coaching. In another comment Monday, Nolan said it didn't matter how well something was drawn up on the chalkboard, it comes down to execution.

But questions about Nolan's philosophy have followed him for years, through his stints in the NFC East, first in New York and then in Washington. A decade ago, Redskins players grew frustrated under Nolan's direction. After being singled out by Snyder,
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Nolan vowed to become more aggressive, and defensive players wore shirts that read "Relentless. Attack. Physical." But after the 1999 season, when his defense finished at the bottom of the league, Nolan was fired, and the complaints about his passive system went public.

We're starting to hear some of the same grumblings about read-and-react around the 49ers. Though the 49ers did blitz about a third of the time against New England, they often were burned badly by Matt Cassel when they did. And some of the key gains for the Patriots — such as the play that put them in range for the clinching field goal— came when the 49ers were less aggressive.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't?

The defensive letdowns are problematic for Nolan. Although he has a defensive coordinator in Greg Manusky, it's clear that this defense is Nolan's baby. Nolan has completely turned the offense over to Mike Martz and while that unit has its problems, it has been more entertaining than in recent years. Nolan's defense is the bigger problem and that reflects poorly on a coach already under fire.

Wednesday, a couple of the 49ers who used to play in Philadelphia — safety Michael Lewis and linebacker Takeo Spikes — talked about playing under aggressive Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson.

"That's his mentality," Spikes said. "It was a fun scheme, a scheme that I liked. You're in the attack mode all the time."

Lewis also loved the system that turns players loose, saying, "It's very aggressive. You never know where it's coming from. He's not afraid to put nine guys in the box."

When asked if the 49ers need to be more aggressive, Spikes said he thought they had a good mixture of approaches.

"It's all about what you're accustomed to running," he said. "These are two totally different mindsets. At the same time, it's personnel and what you draft people to come in and do."

Spikes was asked if he thought the 49ers' defense had an identity.

"I think we have an ID, but it's not consistent," he said.

And what is it?

"Make plays. Force turnovers."

The 49ers — tied for 21st in defense and ranked 23rd against the run — are tied with several other teams for seventh in the league in forcing turnovers. But right now the 49ers aren't making plays.

Whatever their identity is, it's very non-threatening. After five games, some might even call it vanilla.

Traveler
01-12-2009, 10:51 AM
I really didn't need to see this...

Ziggy
01-12-2009, 11:05 AM
I really didn't need to see this...

You're going to see every negative bit of press that Lex can dig up on Nolan and McD. Bowlen didn't choose Lex's first choice. The whinefest shall now begin. Did you expect anything different?

Traveler
01-12-2009, 11:15 AM
You're going to see every negative bit of press that Lex can dig up on Nolan and McD. Bowlen didn't choose Lex's first choice. The whinefest shall now begin. Did you expect anything different?

He's actually going off on two message boards. WOW!

LRtagger
01-12-2009, 11:22 AM
Still a better resume than Slowik :D

MOtorboat
01-12-2009, 11:24 AM
The ironic thing is that Nolan won his acclaim as a defensive coordinator with the Ravens, who had an "offensive" minded head coach with a great defense.

Ziggy
01-12-2009, 11:26 AM
The ironic thing is that Nolan won his acclaim as a defensive coordinator with the Ravens, who had an "offensive" minded head coach with a great defense.

....and won a Super Bowl with that "offensive" minded head coach and Nolan as DC. Now, if we could get some of that Baltimore talent here on D....

:edit: it was actually 2000 that the Ravens won the SB. My mistake.

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2009, 11:39 AM
....and won a Super Bowl with that "offensive" minded head coach and Nolan as DC. Now, if we could get some of that Baltimore talent here on D....

I thought Marv Lewis was their DC when they won the super-bowl.

MOtorboat
01-12-2009, 11:40 AM
I thought Marv Lewis was their DC when they won the super-bowl.

He was. That was the year Nolan was in New York with Al Groh, I believe.

lex
01-12-2009, 11:48 AM
You're going to see every negative bit of press that Lex can dig up on Nolan and McD. Bowlen didn't choose Lex's first choice. The whinefest shall now begin. Did you expect anything different?

Theres nothing wrong with giving people information. People are free to think what they want...even you.

tomjonesrocks
01-12-2009, 11:51 AM
Well, this doesn't seem to be official...yet. Capers' name is still about from what I'm seeing.

Ziggy
01-12-2009, 11:51 AM
He was. That was the year Nolan was in New York with Al Groh, I believe.

True. The Ravens won the SB in 2000. Nolan was Dcoordinator from 2002-2004 for the Ravens. My bad.

MOtorboat
01-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Haha...Tx...you got to it before I could post...

Traveler
01-12-2009, 11:59 AM
Still a better resume than Slowik :D

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii273/Papi728/MISC/huhad41.gif:D

Requiem / The Dagda
01-12-2009, 12:01 PM
I appreciate Lex posting stuff like this. If good thoughts can come regarding Nolan, we can bring up the negatives. Thanks for posting this Lex.

Dortoh
01-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Geez nobody would listen to your crying on the OM so you bring your tired act here.

Dortoh
01-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Well, this doesn't seem to be official...yet. Capers' name is still about from what I'm seeing.

Nolan and Capers will be on the Bronco staff......mark it down.

Welcome the 3-4 to Denver.

DenverBronkHoes
01-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Can he bring Pat Willis with him ???

TXBRONC
01-12-2009, 12:08 PM
Haha...Tx...you got to it before I could post...

Ah beans! I took it out because I thought I was wrong. I thought Marvin Lewis that was the defensive coordinator of the Ravens the year they won the Super Bowl.

JONtheBRONCO
01-12-2009, 12:25 PM
The National Football Post confirms that ex-49ers head coach Mike Nolan has officially been hired as the Broncos defensive coordinator.

Reports of Nolan's hiring surfaced early Monday morning, but other sources had Dom Capers as the favorite to land the position. The Broncos will likely switch to a 3-4 defense, which Nolan has run for the majority of his career.

Source: National Football Post

JKcatch724
01-12-2009, 12:43 PM
All I got out of that article is that Daniel Snyder is an a-hole.

Broncolingus
01-12-2009, 12:54 PM
There are a lot 'worse' DCs out there than Nolan IMO...

I still believe Denver's issues had as much to do with talent on field on the defensive side of the ball and continuity than (only) the DC...

(...no - that's not a endorsement of Slow-lick or anyone else...)

Lonestar
01-12-2009, 02:32 PM
I suspect that as DC IF he is hired he will bring a lot of experience to that side of the LOS as well as a mentor for the younger HC on what to do and NOT do as a first time HC..

Having an older guy on the coaching team will not hurt it at all..

DenBronx
01-12-2009, 03:15 PM
Mike Nolan's Defenses as DC

New York Giants:
1993- Finished 5th
1994- Finished 11th
1995- Finished 17th
1996- Finished 14th

Wash Redskins:
1997- Finished 16th
1998- Finished 24th
1999- Finished 30th

New York Jets:
2000- Finished 10th

Baltimore Ravens:
2001- Finished 2nd
2002- Finished 22nd
2003- Finished 3rd
2004- Finished 6th

DenBronx
01-12-2009, 03:17 PM
If he can get us to a top 17 defense then I'll be happy.

broncofaninfla
01-12-2009, 04:45 PM
Nolan was the DC in Washington when Champ played there. I wonder what Champ's take is on him?

TXBRONC
01-12-2009, 04:47 PM
Mike Nolan's Defenses as DC

New York Giants:
1993- Finished 5th
1994- Finished 11th
1995- Finished 17th
1996- Finished 14th

Wash Redskins:
1997- Finished 16th
1998- Finished 24th
1999- Finished 30th

New York Jets:
2000- Finished 10th

Baltimore Ravens:
2001- Finished 2nd
2002- Finished 22nd
2003- Finished 3rd
2004- Finished 6th

It looks like for the most part Nolan does know put together a respectable defense.

broncofaninfla
01-12-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm guessing the Goodman team will build a defense to fit his scheme. I bet Nolan get's the job done here as well.

DenBronx
01-12-2009, 04:57 PM
It looks like for the most part Nolan does know put together a respectable defense.

except for 3 years, other than that he did a pretty good job.

TXBRONC
01-12-2009, 05:00 PM
except for 3 years, other than that he did a pretty good job.

That to me indicates those three down years probably had nothing to do with his ability to coach a defense.

Lonestar
01-12-2009, 05:02 PM
except for 3 years, other than that he did a pretty good job.


I suspect major injuries or court times and suspensions had a lot to do with those three years..

Dortoh
01-12-2009, 05:04 PM
The man knows his defense that there is no question. The question will be how much chicken saled can he make out of chicken ****?

Zweems56
01-12-2009, 05:06 PM
The man knows his defense that there is no question. The question will be how much chicken saled can he make out of chicken ****?

According to mythbusters, you can polish shit, so it sounds plausible to me that he could make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

TXBRONC
01-12-2009, 05:08 PM
The man knows his defense that there is no question. The question will be how much chicken saled can he make out of chicken ****?

I have a hunch the Goodmans will get him some better ingredients.

Lonestar
01-12-2009, 05:10 PM
According to mythbusters, you can polish shit, so it sounds plausible to me that he could make chicken salad out of chicken shit.



please no ethnic jokes here..

Northman
01-12-2009, 05:18 PM
Mike Nolan's Defenses as DC

New York Giants:
1993- Finished 5th
1994- Finished 11th
1995- Finished 17th
1996- Finished 14th

Wash Redskins:
1997- Finished 16th
1998- Finished 24th
1999- Finished 30th

New York Jets:
2000- Finished 10th

Baltimore Ravens:
2001- Finished 2nd
2002- Finished 22nd
2003- Finished 3rd
2004- Finished 6th


Hopefully he can get us back in the top 10 but right now with our offense ill settle for middle of the pack as a start.

topscribe
01-12-2009, 05:20 PM
Nolan and Capers will be on the Bronco staff......mark it down.

Welcome the 3-4 to Denver.

Actually--and you probably are aware of this--the Broncos are one of the pioneers of the 3-4. :beer:

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TXBRONC
01-12-2009, 05:23 PM
Actually--and you probably are aware of this--the Broncos are one of the pioneers of the 3-4. :beer:

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I thought we were the pioneers of the 3-4, more precisely Joe Collier.

fcspikeit
01-12-2009, 05:52 PM
Nolan was the DC in Washington when Champ played there. I wonder what Champ's take is on him?

My guess is that it will be a long time before Champ will put his name behind another DC...;)

DenBronx
01-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Actually--and you probably are aware of this--the Broncos are one of the pioneers of the 3-4. :beer:

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i wonder what rank our defense was when we first used the 3-4? top do you remember the first year we ever installed it?

topscribe
01-12-2009, 06:00 PM
i wonder what rank our defense was when we first used the 3-4? top do you remember the first year we ever installed it?

Off the top, I don't, and I'm at work, so I can't do much googling.

However, while it did not get me its history, I did find a couple great
explications of the defense, one that I posted on this board (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=515807&postcount=47), and another
I found on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football_strategy).

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topscribe
01-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Here we go. Found something on the history of the 3-4:



The 3-4 defense was originally devised by Bud Wilkinson at the University of Oklahoma in the late 1940s.[23] Former Patriots and Oklahoma coach Chuck Fairbanks is credited with being a major figure in first bringing the 3-4 defense to the NFL in 1974.[24]

Patriots defensive coordinator Hank Bullough made significant further innovations to the system.[25] Parcells was linebackers coach under Ron Erhardt as head coach of the Patriots in 1980 (after Fairbanks left for Colorado in 1978 and Bullough lost out on the head coaching position). When Parcells returned to the Giants as defensive coordinator under Ray Perkins in 1981, he brought the 3-4 defense with him.

Bill Belichick was initially exposed to the 3-4 defense while working as an assistant under Red Miller, head coach of the Denver Broncos and a former Patriots offensive coordinator under Fairbanks. Joe Collier was the defensive coordinator under Red Miller at the time,[26] and his orange crush defense was very successful at stifling opposing offenses. The Broncos had decided to adopt the 3-4 in 1977. Bill Belichick subsequently refined his understanding of the 3-4 as a linebackers coach and defensive coordinator under Parcells with the Giants. Belichick returned the 3-4 defense back to New England when he become coach of the team in 2000.[27] Romeo Crennel subsequently became defensive coordinator for the team.

In a 2007 press conference Belichick said the following of Fairbanks: "I think Chuck has had a tremendous influence on the league as well as this organization in terms of nomenclature and terminology and those kinds of things. I'm sure Chuck could walk in and look at our playbook and probably 80 percent of the plays are the same terminology that he used - whether it be formations or coverages or pass protections. We were sitting there talking yesterday and he was saying, 'How much 60 protection are you guys using? How much 80 are you using?' All of the stuff that was really the fundamentals of his system are still in place here even, again, to the way we call formations and plays and coverages and some of our individual calls within a call, a certain adjustment or things that Red (Miller) and Hank (Bullough) and Ron (Erhardt) and those guys used when they were here".[28]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots_strategy


Guess I should have said the Broncos were one of the pioneers in the NFL.

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tomjonesrocks
01-12-2009, 08:42 PM
The more I read and hear about Nolan the less I like him. I hope Capers comes on in some degree to help.

Dean
01-12-2009, 09:11 PM
Personally, i look at it this way. We have been terrible the last two years. Any scheme has a very strong likelihood of being better than what we have put on the field. We need players at so many positions that if we are going to switch now is as good a time as any. We are so far from being a strong defense that debating the merits of a 4-3 versus a 3-4 is no longer relevant. We will have to build whichever is chosen almost from scratch.

Superchop 7
01-12-2009, 09:24 PM
Draft nose tackle.....early...... if you want to be successful.

Doom has the arms you want at OLB, Moss has the size and speed.

But the key is the nose tackle, he makes or breaks the 3-4.

lex
01-12-2009, 10:50 PM
Draft nose tackle.....early...... if you want to be successful.

Doom has the arms you want at OLB, Moss has the size and speed.

But the key is the nose tackle, he makes or breaks the 3-4.

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

Agreed. It should be interesting to see how they go about this. I wonder how successful a rookie could be at the 3-4?

Superchop 7
01-12-2009, 11:04 PM
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

Agreed. It should be interesting to see how they go about this. I wonder how successful a rookie could be at the 3-4?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________

So do I, Shannys "throw picks at the wall and see which one sticks" couldn't be more appropriate than now.

As far as Nolan bashing, I know he is a good coach, the problem was his personell skills, in this area he sucks, SO, if I'm Goodman and Nolan starts working me to get a certain player in free agency or the draft.......thats the "last player on earth" I would get.

In a way.....he will make their jobs easier.
Just sayin

Shazam!
01-12-2009, 11:18 PM
But the key is the nose tackle, he makes or breaks the 3-4.

When Ted Washington's stint with Denver was in 1994 he was one of the best NTs in the game at the time. Still sucked because of too many inconsistent players in the front seven, with the exception of 2 or maybe 3 guys on defense (Fletcher, Atwater.) The LBs were generally awful.

broncofaninfla
01-13-2009, 04:43 PM
I just checked the Broncos home page, Nolan isn't official yet.

TXBRONC
01-13-2009, 04:57 PM
I just checked the Broncos home page, Nolan isn't official yet.


It might not become official for another day or two.

JONtheBRONCO
01-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Broncos named Mike Nolan defensive coordinator and signed him to a two-year contract.

Nolan coached in Denver from 1987-92 under Dan Reeves. He is likely to run a 3-4, which will give McDaniels the flexible game-planning option he desires. Nolan's defense in San Francisco never improved much with weak pass rushers, but he had a solid run as Baltimore's coordinator. Look for Elvis Dumervil to move to OLB and Denver to pursue NT Albert Haynesworth this offseason.

Source: Denver Post

Ziggy
01-13-2009, 05:39 PM
Broncos named Mike Nolan defensive coordinator and signed him to a two-year contract.

Nolan coached in Denver from 1987-92 under Dan Reeves. He is likely to run a 3-4, which will give McDaniels the flexible game-planning option he desires. Nolan's defense in San Francisco never improved much with weak pass rushers, but he had a solid run as Baltimore's coordinator. Look for Elvis Dumervil to move to OLB and Denver to pursue NT Albert Haynesworth this offseason.

Source: Denver Post

I doubt Albert would want to play NT in a 3-4 system. He's gonna get paid...why not do it in a 4-3?

underrated29
01-13-2009, 06:04 PM
i dont like haynesworth. I think he folds and takes it off big time once he gets paid. He has been injured twice the last 2 years- he is gonna take it easy on himself.

But i wont complain if we get him either. I just think we could use our money elsewhere

denvernative6
01-13-2009, 06:12 PM
If they want to run the 3-4, I say that they look at Terrance Cody from 'Bama on the draft.

TXBRONC
01-13-2009, 06:13 PM
I doubt Albert would want to play NT in a 3-4 system. He's gonna get paid...why not do it in a 4-3?

No way I don't see him wanting play NT.

underrated29
01-13-2009, 06:14 PM
If they want to run the 3-4, I say that they look at Terrance Cody from 'Bama on the draft.

cody isnt comming out.

G_Money
01-13-2009, 06:20 PM
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22

Agreed. It should be interesting to see how they go about this. I wonder how successful a rookie could be at the 3-4?

Ngata was decent his first year.

And yeah, Cody's goin back to school, but Raji's pretty legit.

~G

denvernative6
01-13-2009, 06:21 PM
Oh my bad... Didn't know that!:confused:

Hobe
01-13-2009, 06:45 PM
I won't hold Washington against Nolan. Having Snider as owner is like having cancer of the head.

If we do move to the 3-4 then nose tackle will be the most important question to answer. The other question that comes to mind is, "what will DJ think of having to learn a fourth linebacker position in 4 years?"

G_Money
01-13-2009, 07:11 PM
I won't hold Washington against Nolan. Having Snider as owner is like having cancer of the head.

If we do move to the 3-4 then nose tackle will be the most important question to answer. The other question that comes to mind is, "what will DJ think of having to learn a fourth linebacker position in 4 years?"

He had Snyder adding the "talent" and Norv Turner as his head coach. Just a Bermuda Triangle there...

And DJ should love Nolan. Nolan loves linebackers. They always look good in his system.

Besides, DJ has 30 million reasons now to shut up and practice.

~G

Nature Boy
01-13-2009, 07:30 PM
Just heard on ESPN. Mike Nolan will be our next Def. Coordinator.

.

turftoad
01-13-2009, 07:36 PM
Sounds good to me. Now........ if we can bring in Capers in some capacity that would help also.

Nature Boy
01-13-2009, 07:37 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/sources-nolan-heading-to-denver/

It's official. The Broncos just announced Mike Nalan's hiring to be the Denver Broncos next head coach.

.

Nature Boy
01-13-2009, 07:39 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11439140

Josh McDaniels dug into the Broncos' past when making his first major decision as the team's new head coach Monday.

Mike Nolan, the former San Francisco 49ers coach who was a member of Dan Reeves' defensive staff here from 1987-92, has agreed to become the team's defensive coordinator.

"Mike is a very good coach, he's a good communicator and he's been around this league for a long time, and he's been a head coach in this league," McDaniels said. "All those things are very valuable, and his experience on the defensive side is absolutely a value to any organization."

Nolan, 49, followed Reeves to the New York Giants in 1993 for his first coordinator job. Their first year in New York, the Giants' defense allowed a league-low 205 points, and suddenly Nolan was a hot name for coordinator jobs. He would go on to run the defenses of the Redskins, Jets and Ravens before getting his first head coaching job with the 49ers in 2005. Nolan was fired by the 49ers on Oct. 20, midway through his fourth season, with a career record of 18-37.

"I've always had a strong impression of him from coaching against him. He's always been very difficult to scheme against," McDaniels said. "There's a lot of things that his defenses have historically done well."

Nolan and his new boss share a similar pedigree as the sons of prominent coaches and understudies of respected NFL coaches. McDaniels' father, Thom, is a high school coaching legend in Canton, Ohio. Josh has spent all eight of his years in the NFL working for Bill Belichick.

Nolan's father, Dick, was the head coach of the New Orleans Saints and the 49ers while Mike was growing up, and Mike Nolan has been on the staffs of Brian Billick and Al Groh, as well as Reeves.

"He just did a phenomenal job for me there," Reeves said Monday of Nolan's first stint in Denver. "He's a great communicator. He's been around the game all his life. His dad was about as good a defensive coach as there's ever been in this business."
(Click image to enlarge)

Nolan's tenure in San Francisco will be remembered more for his wardrobe choices, though, than for producing standout defenses. Nolan wished to wear a suit on the sidelines, a violation of league rules that coaches wear only Reebok gear. Because of Nolan, the rule was changed.

Meanwhile, his defenses struggled. In 2005, his first season, the 49ers were dead last in total defense. The team improved to 26th in 2006 and 25th in 2007. His failure in San Francisco was also tied to the decision to draft quarterback Alex Smith with the No. 1 pick in 2005. Smith has floundered.

But just the fact that Nolan has the experience of running a team should help McDaniels as he adjusts to his first head coaching job.

"He brings a wealth of experience," said former NFL quarterback and television analyst Joe Theismann. "If you're a young coach, having that kind of experience can be very, very calming."

Lindsay H. Jones: 303-954-1262 or ljones@denverpost.com

Denver Native (Carol)
01-13-2009, 07:40 PM
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/josh.mcdaniels.mike.2.907497.html

Josh McDaniels went right to work Tuesday figuring out how to fix the dreadful Denver defense that was Mike Shanahan's undoing.

The Broncos' new coach has hired former San Francisco 49ers head coach Mike Nolan as defensive coordinator. Nolan, the first assistant coach hired by McDaniels, has agreed to terms on a two-year contract.

Nolan was fired as the 49ers head coach in mid-season last year and replaced by Mike Singletary.

Nolan served on Dan Reeves' defensive staff in Denver from 1987-92, and team owner Pat Bowlen would welcome his return: "Mike's coached for me before. I'd be excited about it," Bowlen said.

Bowlen also would like to see McDaniels keep some of Shanahan's offensive coaches around but he's not going to insist on it.

"I think it would be a mistake for me to say, 'You've got to do this,' because then if it doesn't work out, it's my fault," Bowlen said. "But I think there are some coaches here I'd like to see remain. If the head coach decides he can't do that, then that's going to be his decision."

That sounds like a step toward giving McDaniels a least a sliver of the kind of power Shanahan enjoyed.

"He's the head football coach, that's his job," Bowlen said. "There's no line. I'm going to let him do his job."

On his way out the door, Shanahan suggested the next coach "would have to be crazy" to break up the offensive staff that guided Denver to the No. 2 ranking in the league this year and includes well-renowned assistants Bobby Turner, who has worked with the Broncos running backs for 14 seasons, and wide receivers coach Jedd Fisch.

Jay Cutler publicly criticized Shanahan's firing and begged Bowlen to keep quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates, who called the plays last year when Cutler set several franchise passing records and earned his first trip to the Pro Bowl.

Even though he has three years left on his contract, Bates' status was thrown into question with the hiring of McDaniels, a fellow 32-year-old offensive whiz kid, as his new boss.

McDaniels is the one calling the shots and the plays around here now.

He said he also wouldn't mind luring Dom Capers over from his job on New England's staff to help repair the Broncos' defense.

As for any holdover assistants from Shanahan's staff, McDaniels said he knows only a couple of them informally but will have "no preconceived notion" on the future of those coaches as he begins assembling his team of advisers.

The Broncos' new coach also began taking a look at the roster Shanahan left behind when he was fired last month after a 14-year run that included two Super Bowls in the 1990s but ended with the team mired in mediocrity.

Although McDaniels is moving from one potent offense to another, one that needs only a bit of tweaking, his toughest task is in repairing a defense that will have its fourth coordinator in four seasons.

That means a new playbook to study, a new scheme to learn, new terminology to memorize.

Now seems like the perfect time for the Broncos, who are built around a 4-3 alignment, to switch to the 3-4 with sprinkles of the 4-3, the same style that McDaniels and Nolan are accustomed to. That would require significant changes in personnel, however, particularly up front.

"Once the coordinator is named we will discuss the personnel that we have here and the direction that we want to go," McDaniels said before he hired Nolan.

But really, there's nobody they need to build around on defense, no star that dictates what their style should be.

Last season, Denver finished 29th in yards allowed. They couldn't stop the run or pressure the passer, and Champ Bailey questioned their hearts after a 41-7 loss to the Patriots and McDaniels' high-powered offensive scheme at midseason.

It never got much better, and they allowed 52 points in their season finale at San Diego, where a win would have put them into the playoffs and perhaps saved Shanahan's job.

The Broncos managed 13 takeaways in 2008, the second-lowest total in the 30 years since the NFL expanded to a 16-game schedule, and they surrendered a league-worst 448 points. They went through six starting free safeties and a half-dozen linebackers, but Niko Koutouvides, last season's heralded free agent acquisition, wasn't one of them.

Most games, defensive linemen Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder, members of Shanahan's 2007 draft class, were sideline spectators, unable to push a pedestrian line for playing time.

It was these types of miscalculations in the draft and free agency that led to Denver's downfall -- a 24-24 record since reaching the 2005 AFC title game -- and, ultimately, to Shanahan's dismissal.

With all these problems on defense, Bowlen gave serious thought to hiring a defensive mind as Shanahan's successor, and he interviewed the Giants' Steve Spagnuolo, Tampa Bay's Raheem Morris and Minnesota's Leslie Frazier before plucking McDaniels from Bill Belichick's staff.

"I looked at that possibility. But the chance to get this young man was very intriguing to me," Bowlen said. "I think he's going to be a great, great coach. I think he can fix our defense."

atwater27
01-13-2009, 11:08 PM
I am really excited about our new Head Coach, but I can honestly say I do not think we hired the right defensive coordinator. I am not excited about Nolan. Our defense will improve, but only slightly.

TXBRONC
01-13-2009, 11:12 PM
I am really excited about our new Head Coach, but I can honestly say I do not think we hired the right defensive coordinator. I am not excited about Nolan. Our defense will improve, but only slightly.

According to what I've seen on him he's done quite well.

omac
01-13-2009, 11:54 PM
Nolan's got a lot to prove after his poor showing as HC in San Francisco. Hopefully that anger will translate to a fiery defense.

JKcatch724
01-14-2009, 12:23 AM
I am really excited about our new Head Coach, but I can honestly say I do not think we hired the right defensive coordinator. I am not excited about Nolan. Our defense will improve, but only slightly.

Nolan is the best DC we coulda gotten IMHO. I'm very excited about Nolan. He may not be able to turn the whole D around in a season, but he has a good track record.

NightTrainLayne
01-14-2009, 12:24 AM
Any DC would have their hands full improving the bunch of no-names that we have on that side of the ball.

We're going to have to be patient with him. It's not him, it's the talent level. Just a fact.

JKcatch724
01-14-2009, 12:46 AM
Any DC would have their hands full improving the bunch of no-names that we have on that side of the ball.

We're going to have to be patient with him. It's not him, it's the talent level. Just a fact.

True. I think we will see some improvement next season, but we're going to need some talent. The reason I love the move is that Nolan has been able to find defensive playmakers.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 12:47 AM
I am really excited about our new Head Coach, but I can honestly say I do not think we hired the right defensive coordinator. I am not excited about Nolan. Our defense will improve, but only slightly.

frankly I do not see how it can get much worse..


Any DC would have their hands full improving the bunch of no-names that we have on that side of the ball.

We're going to have to be patient with him. It's not him, it's the talent level. Just a fact.

I maintain that while they may be a collection of no names there is some talent in there some place and slowish did not have a clue.. might have been a great DB coach, but the overall responsibility NADA.. combine with a few slugs like niko, webster, and Mc moron and Mc ree how can you work around those clowns.. one of them maybe but three or four over the middle of the field..

If the ego's involved would have just placed the best athletes on the field and let them run amuck I personally think having larsen at MLB and Woodyard and Barrett at safety for more than the last couple of games alot of the issue would have been fine by seasons end..

But mikey and his ego just had to make a FB out of a MLB, a FB out of RB a 212 pound WIL out of a pretty good old converted safety.. Although we needed Woodyard to fill in for DJ that was not a total loss..

but mikey just had to be the hero with his late round draft choices and trying to make them something they really were not.. he was a matermind with TD and has been looking for that magic since.. hopefully he finds it in his new home..

Shazam!
01-14-2009, 01:24 AM
Nolan will look like a genius if he can bring Denver's defense into the Top 15. He knows if he can improve this Defense, he'll have another HC offer in no time.

Just because he stunk in SF as a HC doesn't mean he'll stink here as DC. Some Head Coaches are better Coordinators than Head Coaches... Some would argue this is Shanahan too.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 01:39 AM
Nolan will look like a genius if he can bring Denver's defense into the Top 15. He knows if he can improve this Defense, he'll have another HC offer in no time.

Just because he stunk in SF as a HC doesn't mean he'll stink here as DC. Some Head Coaches are better Coordinators than Head Coaches... Some would argue this is Shanahan too.

it is the peter principle "where one rises to their level of incompetency"..

was a perfectly great at the coordinator level but out of the depth as a HC or GM.. in mikey case both..

Thanks for laying that one out of the plate for me to hit it out of the park...

they said he failed because of his Draft choice pick namely the offensive ones.. Now that should not be an issue..

Magnificent Seven
01-14-2009, 02:26 AM
Pat Bowlen would keep Mike Shanahan if Mike fired Bob Slowik and hire Mike Nolan?

Shazam!
01-14-2009, 02:28 AM
I think Shanny's job was doomed by teh team falling apart down the stretch and constantly getting embarassed at home, with those debacles with Oakland and Buffalo this season alone.

ktrain
01-14-2009, 02:46 AM
I am really excited about our new Head Coach, but I can honestly say I do not think we hired the right defensive coordinator. I am not excited about Nolan. Our defense will improve, but only slightly.

Wow, we could sign street FA to replace every defensive player, put in a competent defensive coaching staff and improve more than slightly... as bad as this _efense was last year, it would not take much to improve slightly

You must really not like Nolan

red98
01-14-2009, 03:14 AM
Wow, we could sign street FA to replace every defensive player, put in a competent defensive coaching staff and improve more than slightly... as bad as this _efense was last year, it would not take much to improve slightly

You must really not like Nolan

It must be downright discouraging and demoralizing for somebody who has served as a defensive coordinator, then head coach, for 14 1/2 seasons — with five different teams — yet reached the playoffs only TWO of those years, won more than 10 games just once, had a losing record in eight seasons (and only four or five victories four times), was fired several times and, in the biggest game all his teams played, saw the defense reduced to ashes (44 points).

Say hello again to Mike Nolan, your new defensive coordinator


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11447166

Italianmobstr7
01-14-2009, 03:20 AM
It must be downright discouraging and demoralizing for somebody who has served as a defensive coordinator, then head coach, for 14 1/2 seasons — with five different teams — yet reached the playoffs only TWO of those years, won more than 10 games just once, had a losing record in eight seasons (and only four or five victories four times), was fired several times and, in the biggest game all his teams played, saw the defense reduced to ashes (44 points).

Say hello again to Mike Nolan, your new defensive coordinator


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11447166

Well in the biggest game that Slowik coached, we gave up 52....so I don't wanna hear it. Nolan is a good d coordinator. I think we can get our D to at least middle of the pack next year. If we can do that, we should have a team in the playoffs cuz the offense is going to be incredible. I can't wait. If we thought this year was good, wait until next year.

red98
01-14-2009, 03:25 AM
Well in the biggest game that Slowik coached, we gave up 52....so I don't wanna hear it. Nolan is a good d coordinator. I think we can get our D to at least middle of the pack next year. If we can do that, we should have a team in the playoffs cuz the offense is going to be incredible. I can't wait. If we thought this year was good, wait until next year.

Nolan is not a good DC, he is OK. Slowick is horrible.

Italianmobstr7
01-14-2009, 04:21 AM
Nolan is not a good DC, he is OK. Slowick is horrible.

He's a good coordinator. You'll see. Why do fans think that they're smarter than the guys working in the NFL? Honestly? Don't you think that if they thought Capers was a better coordinator that they would have hired him to be that? We still may get Capers, but he won't be the DC. Some people amaze me. It's ridiculous how much some of you guys think that you know about running an NFL team.

lex
01-14-2009, 07:55 AM
He's a good coordinator. You'll see. Why do fans think that they're smarter than the guys working in the NFL? Honestly? Don't you think that if they thought Capers was a better coordinator that they would have hired him to be that? We still may get Capers, but he won't be the DC. Some people amaze me. It's ridiculous how much some of you guys think that you know about running an NFL team.

Its amazing how apt you are to beleive that those running teams dont make mistakes simply because they are the onse running teams.

Fan in Exile
01-14-2009, 08:18 AM
I have to say at this point that if Spags had been close to the right person for the job he would be getting a HC shot with some team right now.

Also it's foolish to look at a teams win loss record to decide how good a DC. Just as it's foolish to do it for a QB or WR or D-line. You can't blame someone who is only responsible for part of the decision making process.

If you want anymore of an idea how foolish Paige is look at the people he wants us to bring in as FA. "The Broncos, despite a plethora of linebackers, could use one more who can stop the run (Channing Crowder), and they must find a starting safety (oft-injured Mike Brown) or two, another corner (Nnamdi Asomugha) and two defensive linemen (Julius Peppers, Bertrand Berry)." Does he not understand what it means that we are switching to a 3-4?

Nnamdi does us no good in the transition and would be to expensive to allow us to upgrade the rest the way we need to. Peppers and Berry don't fit. Please no more oft injured people for crying out loud.

It's a good thing he isn't in charge. The fact that he doesn't want Nolan just makes him look better to me. Even if he puts in the 3-4.

CoachChaz
01-14-2009, 08:35 AM
We can call Nolan an "average" DC and we can call Spagnuolo a "great" DC. But how many times have those guys, in their DC roles, had the consumate decision on who was going to be playing for them? You can have the greatest defensive scheme ever, but without the right personnel...it will fail. Put LeBeau or Jim Johnson in Denver this year...think that would automatically equate to a top 5 defense?

Nomad
01-14-2009, 08:41 AM
How many teams have Spagnulo been DC of?

Ziggy
01-14-2009, 08:45 AM
McDaniels' choice of Nolan to rebuild defense 'great hire'
By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published January 13, 2009 at 2:44 p.m.



Mike Nolan was only 33 in 1993 when he was hired to be a coordinator in the NFL for the first time.

He spent his youth before that at various pro camps, shagging punts with the players and helping out where he could, while his father, Dick, was coach of the San Francisco 49ers and New Orleans Saints.

Needless to say, X's and O's almost always were part of the family's dinnertime lexicon.

And when it came to single- minded focus, Mike Nolan had that, too, with the late general manager of the New York Giants, George Young, once saying, "No one will outwork him."

That story sounds eerily similar to the one presented in recent days about new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels. It immediately becomes understandable, then, why Nolan would be the choice as his new defensive coordinator.

Nolan signed a two-year contract Tuesday.

"I think it's a great pick," said former Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick, who had Nolan run his defense from 2002 to 2004 before Nolan left to become, as his father before him, coach of the 49ers.

"You're obviously talking about an incredible amount of experience, both in the league and as a head coach, which is obviously something Josh can draw on. Mike is the best coach I've ever been around. He's knowledgeable and very demanding of his players, but in a way that they knew that it's in their best interests, and they respond to that very readily.

"He had a very commanding presence with the players and they'll listen to him and recognize his capabilities. It's a great hire."

It's the fifth team for which Nolan will be the defensive coordinator, following 11 combined years with the Giants (1993 to 1996), Washington Redskins (1997 to 1999), New York Jets (2000) and Ravens, where he also spent one season as a receivers coach.

Billick described Nolan with words such as "intense" and "professional" and labeled his philosophy as adaptable.

"The one thing you can be sure about Mike is he'll do what's best for his personnel," Billick said. "He's not going to shove them into a mold of, 'Well, this is what I know.' For us, for example, we had transitioned from a lot of good linebackers to a minimal number of defensive linemen, so it made sense to do the 3-4. Then we acquired the defensive linemen and transitioned back. Mike's not going to get pigeonholed as just one or the other."

It also will be Nolan's second go-round with the Broncos. His first job after four college stops was working as Dan Reeves' special-teams coach for two seasons before overseeing the linebackers, starting in 1989.

Four years later, Reeves was fired and hired by the Giants, and Nolan was given oversight of the New York defense at nearly the same age as McDaniels is now, 32.

"I just think he's a really bright football coach and a great communicator. That's what you need to be able to do, work with people to put a defensive scheme together," Reeves said Tuesday. "He knows personnel very well. You look back at some of the players that he's coached, and the defensive coordinator and the head coach have a lot to do with those people being there.

"I can go all the way back to Michael Strahan, and we had other good players. Mike was there when Strahan was drafted. I think he's great in a rebuilding program, or one already built. And he already has been in that organization. He knows the owner, knows the people, knows the town and how the fans are. I think all those things help him."

The Broncos' current defense is a hefty rebuilding project. It has allowed 409 and 448 points in consecutive seasons. The club set franchise lows in takeaways (13), while yielding a 63.6 percent completion rate and 146.1 rushing yards a game, finishing in the lower tier in numerous other categories this season.

Yet Nolan has faced similar tasks before, with mixed results, since leaving the Giants.

In Washington, he was skewered on a regular basis and fired after the Redskins ranked 30th out of then 31 teams after his third season.

With the Jets, he took a group that was 21st overall to 10th in one year but lost his job when Al Groh's staff was replaced by new coach Herm Edwards and his assistants.

The Ravens roster was heavily purged in 2002 when Nolan replaced Marvin Lewis, losing Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams and Rob Burnett from a stout defensive line.

But Nolan eventually switched to a 3-4 front and helped a team with an NFL-record 19 rookies re-establish itself on defense. The Ravens were ranked third overall the next season, sixth in 2004.

Those results helped land Nolan the 49ers job, which came with a defense that had allowed a franchise-record points and was a league-worst 2-14.

"First of all, he's very sound," Reeves said. "He wants to be a defense that doesn't give up the big plays, that makes a team earn what they get and don't make mistakes. He's aggressive, yet not aggressive to the point where's taking a lot of chances that will get you hurt. And I think he uses his personnel really well. He adjusts the defense to the personnel."

Like Nolan's tenure in Baltimore, San Francisco bounced between 4-3 and 3-4 looks in Nolan's 31/2 seasons but was hamstrung by the ill-fated selection of Alex Smith as the No. 1 pick in Nolan's initial draft.

Some Broncos fans might be lukewarm to Nolan because of that recent history, but Reeves believes that would be unfair.

"If you look at where San Francisco was when he came there and where they are now, I think he's definitely got them on the right track," said Reeves, who still communicates with Nolan and broadcasts various NFL games as a radio analyst to maintain his pulse on the league.

"He wasn't able to finish that process, but you look at the defensive personnel they've got. He's had a couple really good defensive players make the Pro Bowl, even when his football team was struggling. You have to look at the whole body of work and realize Mike's a really good football coach."

broncofaninfla
01-14-2009, 08:56 AM
I like what Reeves had to say about Nolan:

"First of all, he's very sound," Reeves said. "He wants to be a defense that doesn't give up the big plays, that makes a team earn what they get and don't make mistakes. He's aggressive, yet not aggressive to the point where's taking a lot of chances that will get you hurt. And I think he uses his personnel really well. He adjusts the defense to the personnel."

atwater27
01-14-2009, 09:08 AM
Wow, we could sign street FA to replace every defensive player, put in a competent defensive coaching staff and improve more than slightly... as bad as this _efense was last year, it would not take much to improve slightly

You must really not like Nolan

Anybody is better than Slowik. That said, I can believe that the only reason Nolan's Baltimore defenses were ranked so high was because he took over one of the greatest defenses of all time, players and scheme. Hell, Barry Switzer won a super bowl with somebody els'es team.

All his other defenses were middle of the road and worse.
I just figure we should have looked around more and longer for the right DC. Not just give a failed head coach another shot as an average DC.

Nomad
01-14-2009, 09:18 AM
Anybody is better than Slowik. That said, I can believe that the only reason Nolan's Baltimore defenses were ranked so high was because he took over one of the greatest defenses of all time, players and scheme. Hell, Barry Switzer won a super bowl with somebody els'es team.

All his other defenses were middle of the road and worse.
I just figure we should have looked around more and longer for the right DC. Not just give a failed head coach another shot as an average DC.

Did you read Woody Paige's new article, you sound just like him??

BroncoJoe
01-14-2009, 09:20 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2009/0112/20090112_095246_FooterNolan011309.jpg

CoachChaz
01-14-2009, 09:51 AM
Anybody is better than Slowik. That said, I can believe that the only reason Nolan's Baltimore defenses were ranked so high was because he took over one of the greatest defenses of all time, players and scheme. Hell, Barry Switzer won a super bowl with somebody els'es team.

All his other defenses were middle of the road and worse.
I just figure we should have looked around more and longer for the right DC. Not just give a failed head coach another shot as an average DC.

...and hired who? Any other candidates out there with his experience? The only times he really didnt excel was in Washington and SF. Cant imagine why that happened.

G_Money
01-14-2009, 10:16 AM
As I’ve said about Nolan before, he’s not the greatest DC in all the land.

But who is better?

IMO, Capers is better. But Capers may not want to run a defense right now.

The top 5 DCs (let’s say Lebeau, Johnson, Baltimore’s Ryan, the Titans Schwartz and Spagnuolo) are better than Nolan. They’re also unavailable.

Of the AVAILABLE guys, who’s better? Is Raheem Morris, who is taking over for Kiffin? Can’t say, since he’s never done it.

Would McDermott be better? Can’t say, he’s never done it.

Is Gregg Williams? No, Gregg’s about the same.

If we could pry Ron Rivera away from the Chargers, would he be? No, about the same.

Nolan’s not a defensive genius. He’s in the 2nd tier of Rivera/Williams/Wade Phillips-level guys – guys who have plans, and get their guys to play hard, and who can excel with the right personnel.

How is that a bad thing?

If Nolan was just coming off of the Ravens job, where he had to re-tool the thing that Marvin Lewis built (don’t let anybody tell you he was just given that team and any idiot could have kept it up) he would be justly praised. If we got the Ryan twin currently running, ie “maintaining” the Ravens monster defense, would that be better?

DCs look better when they have talent. Nolan by himself cannot rescue a talentless D. But he CAN make sure that we’re not busy blowing our own legs off with a shotgun like we’ve been doing the last 2 years. And he’s gonna love finally being a coordinator on a team with some offense after years with some of the worst offenses in the league.

Our D will be better. Even if Nolan is “only” Greg Robinson, how is that bad? For the record, he’s a better DC than Robinson, and if you give Nolan Neil Smith, and Alfred Williams, and Trevor Pryce, and Romo, and Atwater, and Crockett, and Mobley, he’ll do juuuust fine.

If we keep rolling out Manuel and McCree and Moss and Webster, then we’ll have to settle for being less-sucky.

Either way, I’m no longer terrified that we will be incapable of judging defensive talent because our scheme is designed by a 3-year old with fingerpaints.

The scheme will be competent, the instruction should be competent, and now we’ll see whether our talent can be competent.

Nolan’s not a home run – he’s a solid double-in-the-gap though, and something solid to build on, which is all we could ask of any DC choice on the market. In what universe is that bad?

~G

pnbronco
01-14-2009, 10:21 AM
Either way, I’m no longer terrified that we will be incapable of judging defensive talent because our scheme is designed by a 3-year old with fingerpaints.
:laugh:

Thanks G, I do enjoy reading your posts, great insight. As a bonus you made me laugh with the finger paints....:D

Traveler
01-14-2009, 11:39 AM
Switch to 3-4? Not so quick
The Broncos face a personnel problem on Nolan's defense.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post

Josh McDaniels' NFL background is steeped in a 3-4 defensive system.

The Broncos' new head coach now has a defensive coordinator in Mike Nolan whose expertise lies with the 3-4.

It's all there for the Broncos to become a 3-4 defense.

There's just one little problem: Other than cornerback Champ Bailey, there may not be a 3-4 player on the defensive roster.

"Obviously we'll have to adjust the personnel some," said Jim Goodman, who runs the Broncos' player personnel department. "(McDaniels) may want to do a hybrid type thing where he goes to a 4-3 some."

Nolan flew into Denver on Tuesday after reaching an agreement on a two-year contract to become the Broncos' new defensive coordinator. Nolan becomes the team's fourth defensive coordinator in four years, but the first for McDaniels. Previous defensive coordinators were Bob Slowik (2008), Jim Bates (2007) and Larry Coyer (2006).
They all ran the 4-3 system preferred by previous Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan. Nolan said his 22 seasons of NFL coaching have been evenly split between the 3-4 and the 4-3, but McDaniels comes from a New England organization that has primarily been a 3-4 base defense during the Bill Belichick era.

"We still have to go through the evaluation process with our own players, and then see who's going to be out there in the free-agent market, what the draft looks like," Nolan said. "We have a ways to go before we make that decision."

If ever the Broncos were going to make such a significant defensive conversion, though, this figures to be the time. True, the current roster was assembled for a 4-3 defense. But after surrendering 28.0 points per game to rank 30th in the NFL this season and 25.6 points in 2007 to rank 28th, the defensive roster was going to get blown up anyway.

That doesn't mean every player but Bailey will be gone. Of the roughly 25 defensive players, anywhere from 10 to 15 figure to stay. But the Broncos are likely to acquire at least one player, and probably two, who are considered well-suited for the 3-4 defense at every position.
"They may have personnel that is more suited for one scheme, but you may want to start to go toward another," McDaniels said during his news conference Monday. "There are going to have to be some decisions made in the near future with where we want to go here in the long term. We want to have a consistent scheme."

Here's a look at each Denver defensive position and how it fits the 3-4:

• Defensive line: One problem the Broncos had when they experimented with the 3-4 in midseason was they didn't have anything close to a true nose tackle. Defensive tackle Marcus Thomas continues to develop, but not at nose. Kenny Peterson played some nose, and he was a freshman when McDaniels was a senior on the same high school team. De-wayne Robertson would have to accept a significant pay cut to return.
At defensive end, Elvis Dumervil is a keeper as a pass rusher, but even he is considered a better fit in the 4-3 because of his relatively small size.

• Linebacker: D.J. Williams is an exceptional weakside linebacker in the 4-3, but he's not a pass rusher, which is essential for at least one outside linebacker in the 3-4. Boss Bailey may be the best 3-4 fit among the Broncos' outside linebackers, but his injury history is a major concern. At inside linebacker, Spencer Larsen can play, but the Broncos figure to add at least two more.

• Cornerback: Champ Bailey can play for anybody, anytime, in any scheme. Dre Bly may not return, however, and nickel back Karl Paymah is an unrestricted free agent.

• Safety: Regardless of 4-3 or 3-4 or box-and-one, the Broncos will seek two new starters here. Marquand Manuel is an overachiever and a good box safety, and rookie Josh Barrett showed promise. But don't be surprised if the Broncos make this position their top priority this offseason.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11447165

red98
01-14-2009, 11:57 AM
Nolan’s not a home run...

And never will be. We had a shot at maybe finding the next home-run out there but MCD
went with the mediocre retread. I hope it works out.

I don't think MCD made a bad choice I just think he had a chance to make a better choice.

muse
01-14-2009, 11:57 AM
Either way, I’m no longer terrified that we will be incapable of judging defensive talent because our scheme is designed by a 3-year old with fingerpaints.


Oh, that makes sense. I thought Slowik just put the Defensive Coaching Manual in a shredder, covered his wall with glue and threw the shreddings on it. Then, with a marker pen, he drew 16 circles in random places and made up his gameplan each week from one of the circles.

Traveler
01-14-2009, 12:00 PM
And never will be. We had a shot at maybe finding the next home-run out there but MCD
went with the mediocre retread. I hope it works out.

I don't think MCD made a bad choice I just think he had a chance to make a better choice.

Who would that be?

Fan in Exile
01-14-2009, 12:00 PM
The Ravens roster was heavily purged in 2002 when Nolan replaced Marvin Lewis, losing Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams and Rob Burnett from a stout defensive line.

But Nolan eventually switched to a 3-4 front and helped a team with an NFL-record 19 rookies re-establish itself on defense. The Ravens were ranked third overall the next season, sixth in 2004.

Those results helped land Nolan the 49ers job, which came with a defense that had allowed a franchise-record points and was a league-worst 2-14.



Anybody is better than Slowik. That said, I can believe that the only reason Nolan's Baltimore defenses were ranked so high was because he took over one of the greatest defenses of all time, players and scheme. Hell, Barry Switzer won a super bowl with somebody els'es team.

All his other defenses were middle of the road and worse.
I just figure we should have looked around more and longer for the right DC. Not just give a failed head coach another shot as an average DC.

He didn't inherit the Ravens defense, look at that 19 rookies that's crazy.

You're just wrong.

I like that he knows how to work with the players that he's got, and bring in new ones. I'm willing to give him a shot and I'm sure he'll be better than Slowick.

Dirk
01-14-2009, 12:08 PM
I'm willing to give him a shot and I'm sure he'll be better than Slowick.

:beer:

red98
01-14-2009, 12:09 PM
Who would that be?


I don't know, maybe Sean McDermott if we are staying 4/3, maybe some other assistant coach ready to make the move to DC.

Before Spags got the DC job with Giants had you ever heard of him?

I didn't know who Raheen Morris was until this post season, did you?

I'm sure there is a bunch of up and comers out there.

Traveler
01-14-2009, 12:20 PM
I don't know, maybe Sean McDermott if we are staying 4/3, maybe some other assistant coach ready to make the move to DC.

Before Spags got the DC job with Giants had you ever heard of him?

I didn't know who Raheen Morris was until this post season, did you?

I'm sure there is a bunch of up and comers out there.

Ease up Red. I was seriously asking who you liked...nothing more

red98
01-14-2009, 12:25 PM
Ease up Red. I was seriously asking who you liked...nothing more

Oh sorry! I thought it was one of those "you didn't get your guy so you're unhappy" deals.

Sorry about that.

My favorite is McDermott, but if we are going 3/4 I don't know who I like best.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 12:43 PM
We can call Nolan an "average" DC and we can call Spagnuolo a "great" DC. But how many times have those guys, in their DC roles, had the consumate decision on who was going to be playing for them? You can have the greatest defensive scheme ever, but without the right personnel...it will fail. Put LeBeau or Jim Johnson in Denver this year...think that would automatically equate to a top 5 defense?

I'm guessing that upfront neither had "consummate decision on who was going to be playing for them" but I bet the GM is listening to them NOW.. That when they spoke their opinion on who to take was listened to..

I'm also guessing that for the most part they were good enough to make chicken soup out of chicken crap.. Thus they were listened to at draft time..

CoachChaz
01-14-2009, 01:17 PM
I'm guessing that upfront neither had "consummate decision on who was going to be playing for them" but I bet the GM is listening to them NOW.. That when they spoke their opinion on who to take was listened to..

I'm also guessing that for the most part they were good enough to make chicken soup out of chicken crap.. Thus they were listened to at draft time..

Most likely the coaches and coordinators and GM and all personnel people get together and decide which direction they want to go. The coaches and coordinators surely have their input, but acquiring players is the role of the GM and he ultimately has the peices and resources to make the best decisions. From there, the coaches and coordinators work with what they have. If you mix a good coordinator with a talented player, the result will be good. But not every coach can polish a complete turd.

Watchthemiddle
01-14-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm willing to give anyone a chance. After all, how much worse can it get? Ooops..I said that after the 07 season after we gave up 409 points...only to be beat by 440+ this year...:eek::eek:

pnbronco
01-14-2009, 01:41 PM
I'm willing to give anyone a chance. After all, how much worse can it get? Ooops..I said that after the 07 season after we gave up 409 points...only to be beat by 440+ this year...:eek::eek:

:eek: :eek:

Traveler
01-14-2009, 01:47 PM
McDaniels Hires Mike Nolan To Fix Defense
Arnie Stapleton, AP Sports Writer

Josh McDaniels went right to work today figuring out how to fix the dreadful Denver defense that was Mike Shanahan's undoing.

His first order of business: luring former San Francisco 49ers coach Mike Nolan to the cause. Nolan agreed late today to become the Broncos' fourth defensive coordinator in four years.

The 49-year-old Nolan served as defensive coordinator with the Ravens, Jets, Redskins and Giants before getting his first head coaching job in San Francisco, where he was fired midway through his fourth season last year.

He got his start in the NFL as a special teams and linebackers coach on Dan Reeves' staff in Denver from 1987-92. Team owner Pat Bowlen said yesterday that he was excited at the prospect of Nolan's return.

Bowlen also would like to see McDaniels keep some of Shanahan's offensive coaches around but he's not going to insist on it.

"I think it would be a mistake for me to say, 'You've got to do this,' because then if it doesn't work out, it's my fault," Bowlen said. "But I think there are some coaches here I'd like to see remain. If the head coach decides he can't do that, then that's going to be his decision."

That sounds like a step toward giving McDaniels a least a sliver of the kind of power Shanahan enjoyed.

"He's the head football coach, that's his job," Bowlen said. "There's no line. I'm going to let him do his job."

On his way out the door, Shanahan suggested the next coach "would have to be crazy" to break up the offensive staff that guided Denver to the No. 2 ranking in the league this year and includes well-renowned assistants Bobby Turner, who has worked with the Broncos running backs for 14 seasons, and wide receivers coach Jedd Fisch.

Jay Cutler publicly criticized Shanahan's firing and begged Bowlen to keep quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates, who called the plays last year when Cutler set several franchise passing records and earned his first trip to the Pro Bowl.

Even though he has three years left on his contract, Bates' status was thrown into question with the hiring of McDaniels, a fellow 32-year-old offensive whiz kid, as his new boss.

McDaniels is the one calling the shots and the plays around here now.

He said he also wouldn't mind luring Dom Capers over from his job on New England's staff to help repair the Broncos' defense.

As for any holdover assistants from Shanahan's staff, McDaniels said he knows only a couple of them informally but will have "no preconceived notion" on the future of those coaches as he begins assembling his team of advisers.

The Broncos' new coach also began taking a look at the roster Shanahan left behind when he was fired last month after a 14-year run that included two Super Bowls in the 1990s but ended with the team mired in mediocrity.

Although McDaniels is moving from one potent offense to another, one that needs only a bit of tweaking, his toughest task is in repairing a defense that will have its fourth coordinator in four seasons.

That means a new playbook to study, a new scheme to learn, new terminology to memorize.

Now seems like the perfect time for the Broncos, who are built around a 4-3 alignment, to switch to the 3-4 with sprinkles of the 4-3, the same style that McDaniels and Nolan are accustomed to. That would require significant changes in personnel, however, particularly up front.

"Once the coordinator is named we will discuss the personnel that we have here and the direction that we want to go," McDaniels said before he hired Nolan.

But really, there's nobody they need to build around on defense, no star that dictates what their style should be.

Last season, Denver finished 29th in yards allowed. They couldn't stop the run or pressure the passer, and Champ Bailey questioned their hearts after a 41-7 loss to the Patriots and McDaniels' high-powered offensive scheme at midseason.

It never got much better, and they allowed 52 points in their season finale at San Diego, where a win would have put them into the playoffs and perhaps saved Shanahan's job.

The Broncos managed 13 takeaways in 2008, the second-lowest total in the 30 years since the NFL expanded to a 16-game schedule, and they surrendered a league-worst 448 points. They went through six starting free safeties and a half-dozen linebackers, but Niko Koutouvides, last season's heralded free agent acquisition, wasn't one of them.

Most games, defensive linemen Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder, members of Shanahan's 2007 draft class, were sideline spectators, unable to push a pedestrian line for playing time.

It was these types of miscalculations in the draft and free agency that led to Denver's downfall -- a 24-24 record since reaching the 2005 AFC title game -- and, ultimately, to Shanahan's dismissal.

With all these problems on defense, Bowlen gave serious thought to hiring a defensive mind as Shanahan's successor, and he interviewed the Giants' Steve Spagnuolo, Tampa Bay's Raheem Morris and Minnesota's Leslie Frazier before plucking McDaniels from Bill Belichick's staff.

"I looked at that possibility. But the chance to get this young man was very intriguing to me," Bowlen said. "I think he's going to be a great, great coach. I think he can fix our defense."

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/josh.mcdaniels.mike.2.907497.html

bcbronc
01-14-2009, 02:15 PM
I just want Nolan to get 3 years to try to rebuild this defense. 4 DCs in 4 years = no chance for success. I don't expect our defense to climb to the top of the charts next season, and even if they stink as bad as this year, I want to give a coordinator a chance to actually install his system and get the players used to it.

I like that Nolan is capable and willing to run either base. That gives us a couple of years to transition to a 3-4 (all thing being equal, I prefer the hybrid 3-4) where we can still use the 4-3 as our personal dictates.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 02:37 PM
I just want Nolan to get 3 years to try to rebuild this defense. 4 DCs in 4 years = no chance for success. I don't expect our defense to climb to the top of the charts next season, and even if they stink as bad as this year, I want to give a coordinator a chance to actually install his system and get the players used to it.

I like that Nolan is capable and willing to run either base. That gives us a couple of years to transition to a 3-4 (all thing being equal, I prefer the hybrid 3-4) where we can still use the 4-3 as our personal dictates.


well it sounds like he has a 2 year contract to make that work or be on the way to making it work..

bcbronc
01-14-2009, 02:41 PM
well it sounds like he has a 2 year contract to make that work or be on the way to making it work..

well, two years is better than one year I guess. I just don't want to see a drive for 5 in 5.

Medford Bronco
01-14-2009, 02:41 PM
I just want Nolan to get 3 years to try to rebuild this defense. 4 DCs in 4 years = no chance for success. I don't expect our defense to climb to the top of the charts next season, and even if they stink as bad as this year, I want to give a coordinator a chance to actually install his system and get the players used to it.

I like that Nolan is capable and willing to run either base. That gives us a couple of years to transition to a 3-4 (all thing being equal, I prefer the hybrid 3-4) where we can still use the 4-3 as our personal dictates.

I like the 3-4 better as it seems to be very successful in the league

both teams in the AFCC game are 3-4 teams.

It is easier to mix personel with that according to your rush but we need a huge overhaul to get there. I hope that we do :salute:

Maybe i can use this smilie next season:defense: and not as as joke :lol:

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 02:47 PM
I like the 3-4 better as it seems to be very successful in the league

both teams in the AFCC game are 3-4 teams.

It is easier to mix personel with that according to your rush but we need a huge overhaul to get there. I hope that we do :salute:

Maybe i can use this smilie next season:defense: and not as as joke :lol:

it has been successful but as more and more teams go to it creative OC will find a way to defeat it.. Just as the ZBS is not as effective today as it was during the Superbowl years more and more teams are adopting it and practicing against it and playing against it in their divisions and therefore DC have made adjustments to counter act it..

Someone will come up with something new and then folks will copy it evolution the strongest and smartest survive the rest get fired for not adapting..

TXBRONC
01-14-2009, 03:03 PM
it has been successful but as more and more teams go to it creative OC will find a way to defeat it.. Just as the ZBS is not as effective today as it was during the Superbowl years more and more teams are adopting it and practicing against it and playing against it in their divisions and therefore DC have made adjustments to counter act it..

Someone will come up with something new and then folks will copy it evolution the strongest and smartest survive the rest get fired for not adapting..

Hogwash, the Steelers have been running a 3-4 defenses for near 20 years and year and year out they consistently one of best units in the League.

Fan in Exile
01-14-2009, 03:18 PM
I like the 3-4 better as it seems to be very successful in the league

both teams in the AFCC game are 3-4 teams.

It is easier to mix personel with that according to your rush but we need a huge overhaul to get there. I hope that we do :salute:

Maybe i can use this smilie next season:defense: and not as as joke :lol:

Of course the two defenses in the NFC are 4-3. The Giants 4-3 also beat the Pats 3-4 in the super bowl last year. I think you have to look at the guys you have and see what fits.

Medford Bronco
01-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Of course the two defenses in the NFC are 4-3. The Giants 4-3 also beat the Pats 3-4 in the super bowl last year. I think you have to look at the guys you have and see what fits.

I Agree but I have always liked the 3-4 for the long run.

We sucked at the 4-3 as well last year, Why not convert now for next year and the future.

bcbronc
01-14-2009, 03:28 PM
it has been successful but as more and more teams go to it creative OC will find a way to defeat it.. Just as the ZBS is not as effective today as it was during the Superbowl years more and more teams are adopting it and practicing against it and playing against it in their divisions and therefore DC have made adjustments to counter act it..

Someone will come up with something new and then folks will copy it evolution the strongest and smartest survive the rest get fired for not adapting..

I've always seen it as the evolution of the players. in the late 80s early 90s when the last cylce of the 3-4 died out, it was (imo) because OL started to all weigh over 300lbs. the linebackers were simply overpowered, and if they tried to run around the blocker, huge holes were opened.

now the defensive players have closed the gap. now OLBs are 260lbs+ and incredibly athletic. their size/athleticism is too much for many current OGs and OTs.

but you can already start to see the swing going back the other way. now we're getting offensive linemen who weigh 320lbs but have the quick feet and athleticism to handle LBs in space. as those freaks become the norm and not just elite LTs, the 3-4 will likely lose some of it's effectiveness. coaching and familiarity play a role, but I see it as the natural cycle of professional athletes. first bigger and stronger, then the athleticism catches up to that size.

TXBRONC
01-14-2009, 03:28 PM
I Agree but I have always liked the 3-4 for the long run.

We sucked at the 4-3 as well last year, Why not convert now for next year and the future.

While I have said previously I don't mind either as the base defense, the one thing I like best about 3-4 is flexibility to hide from the offense where the rush is going to come from.

Lonestar
01-14-2009, 04:32 PM
I've always seen it as the evolution of the players. in the late 80s early 90s when the last cylce of the 3-4 died out, it was (imo) because OL started to all weigh over 300lbs. the linebackers were simply overpowered, and if they tried to run around the blocker, huge holes were opened.

now the defensive players have closed the gap. now OLBs are 260lbs+ and incredibly athletic. their size/athleticism is too much for many current OGs and OTs.

but you can already start to see the swing going back the other way. now we're getting offensive linemen who weigh 320lbs but have the quick feet and athleticism to handle LBs in space. as those freaks become the norm and not just elite LTs, the 3-4 will likely lose some of it's effectiveness. coaching and familiarity play a role, but I see it as the natural cycle of professional athletes. first bigger and stronger, then the athleticism catches up to that size.

it is all in cycles we were one of the first to use it in the late 70's and it takes special DL and LB types to make it work.. when you lose those or shift to a new DC then stuff happens..

While some teams have had success with it for a long time those are the ones that have real continuity in the FO and coaching staff.. THEY master it and refine it.. But since alot of franchises change HCs like some folks change underwear.. over the past five years almost every franchise has turned over there FO, can coaching staff at least once.. the note able exceptions are JAX, TEN, NE, TPA, SEA (Although these two are close), Philly, and of course DEN before this year.. 5-6 teams with more than a 5 year HC at the helm and many of them had changes underneath them..

I could be wrong a a few of them but think I'm pretty close..