Unbelievable

[cmc0605]

People following the Gameday thread will know that I bashed Tebow a good amount tonight. I will not say "I was wrong" as I still doubt that he is the future of this franchise (for 5-10 years in the future), since you need to pass consistently to win in the NFL, but what a special win tonight. A lot of props to him, and a huge gain of respect. This was at least more convincing than the Miami comeback, or the KC win. I'd rather an offense that can consistently put up 30 points and not put us in the situation we were in against a Jets team that gave us a lot of opportunities, but this was more exciting tonight. Hats off to Tebow's effort.

I hope this opens up an offense that lets Tebow do a bit more in a spread or no-huddle, rather than the zone read stuff, which can only be effective against crummy run defenses. Also, Tebow is exciting out of the pocket and can make some plays, so pulling out some old Jake Plummer bootleg type stuff might be good. McGahee was not 100% tonight, and I was hoping they'd pass more to see what he can do. I have a lot of reservations about the offensive coordinator, but I can see that he is playing to his QB, so I am interested in seeing if anything changes in terms of game plan after this.

And I give the most props to this defense. Von Miller may be one of the most exciting defenders in the whole league, and it would be a shame if he does not get defensive RoY award, and maybe even a pro bowl nod. He is going to be a wrecking force. Dumervil may be back to pro bowl form. I like where this defense is heading in the future- it is a shame our secondary is aged, so hopefully that is a focus in the following few offseasons. If we could get a young, elite corner I'd be very happy. Goodman is still a good corner IMO and what a play by him tonight.

A couple weeks ago we were all thinking where we'd pick in the top 5. Now we are playoff contenders.

[vhatever]

Tebow only made about 3 poor passes. The rest of his incompletions were a mix of throwing the ball away, just giving the receiver a chance to make a play on the ball, or the receiver simply dropping a pass right in their hands.

[Thestrategist1]

Thank you Tim Tebow...

[cmc0605]

Tebow only made about 3 poor passes. The rest of his incompletions were a mix of throwing the ball away, just giving the receiver a chance to make a play on the ball, and the receiver simply dropping a pass right in their hands.

I agree the receivers need to take a lot of fault, both tonight, and in previous games. Unfortunately, Tebow still misses throws that should be automatic, even at a college level, and until he can make those the coaching staff probably does not have any choice but to make the offensive gameplan run-heavy. It also shouldn't be news-worthy when your QB makes a 10 yard completion. That should happen every drive. We're still at the newsworthy point, which is why I am a critic.

But again, tough to complain too much right now. I am looking forward to seeing what we do offensively in the following games. Good thing is we have an extended week to rest now.

[NightTerror218]

I agree the receivers need to take a lot of fault, both tonight, and in previous games. Unfortunately, Tebow still misses throws that should be automatic, even at a college level, and until he can make those the coaching staff probably does not have any choice but to make the offensive gameplan run-heavy. It also shouldn't be news-worthy when your QB makes a 10 yard completion. That should happen every drive. We're still at the newsworthy point, which is why I am a critic.

But again, tough to complain too much right now. I am looking forward to seeing what we do offensively in the following games. Good thing is we have an extended week to rest now.

Figure a good portion of missed passes are the deep ones too.

[wayninja]

Let's give credit where credit is due the most. Thank you Defense.

TT had a solid game under the system they are asking him to run, but the star, far and away, is keeping the Jets to 13 points. Fantastic.

[Ryan_the_Bucs_Fan]

I hope for you Bronco's fans sake, the last drive there shows Fox that trying to make Tim Tebow into a prototype passer is actually going to hurt more then help. Spread the defense out. There is nothing wrong with tailoring an offense to suit a players strengths. For christ sakes it's what they do for every great QB. Green Bay does it for Rodgers, the Patriots did it for Brady, the Colts did it for Manning, etc and so forth.

Maybe in the off season John Elway can sit Tebow down and have him spend the whole time just learning the fundamentals of the position that was so lost in his time at Florida. Till then, play to the kid's strengths, and maybe you wont have to worry about needing a magical last minute drive.

[wayninja]

and maybe you wont have to worry about needing a magical last minute drive.

The magical last minute drive is where we earn our paychecks.

:salute:

Maybe it's blasphemy, but did anyone get Broncos/Browns '86/87 championship chills on that last 95 yard drive?

[Joel]

Let's give credit where credit is due the most. Thank you Defense.

TT had a solid game under the system they are asking him to run, but the star, far and away, is keeping the Jets to 13 points. Fantastic.
More like keeping them to 7 points, because the FGs came on a drive that started just outside our 45 after our offense went three and out (again) and another that started with a McGahee fumble on the second play of a drive that started when NY missed a long FG following yet another great defensive stand. In terms of points given up by our defense rather than enabled by our offense, I'd say it was a wash (at worst) because Goodmans pick six made up for the Jets recovering their own fumble in our end zone.

Tebows 4-1 record as a starter should not obscure the fact that our defence, which has been the League whipping boy since before Shanny left town, shut down the opposing offense in each of the four wins (though, to be fair, the only really good offense we faced was the Raiders.) I love Shanny to death, but the fact is his post-Super Bowl teams went from having no secondary to having no run stopping, and Fox has not only made it respectable, but good enough for a sophomore sandlot QB to win games with just one or two good drives late in games his defence refused to lose.

All of that said, our D was noticeably tired by the end of this game; it's great that our last drive ate 5:00, put us up by 4 and left less than a minute on the clock, but when it began I couldn't help thinking, if we go three and out again, our D doesn't have another stop in them. Tebow almost singlehandedly obviated that concern by taking us 95 yards for a TD. It was a somewhat lopsided team effort, but it WAS a team effort, by the hogs on the line, the backs grinding for yards, the receivers making very difficult catches (although dropping a few easy ones that would have made the hard ones unnecessary) and the QB running and throwing. That doesn't take anything away from Von and Dooms sacks (though Von needs to stop leading with his helmet and taking an extra step if he wants to keep his paycheck,) Goodmans pick six, Champ shutting down a Pro Bowl receiver and solid D by both DJ and Woodyard, but our offensive playmakers deserve the recognition they earned tonight.

As to the OP, more Plummeresque bootlegs might benefit us, but I don't think they'll win us a championship with Tebow any more than they did with Plummer. Bootleg QBs are... odd. Defences figured out pretty quickly that letting Plummer roll out of the pocket risked the real and dangerous possibility that he would scramble for a first down if you covered his receivers or lob one of them a 50 yard TD if you tried to tackle him, but if you put a spy on him and forced him to stay in the pocket he would inexplicably self destruct. The thing about throwing on the run so much that you become really good at it is that you don't get much game practice throwing from the pocket, and Tebow is far from the first sandlot QB commentators and coaches noted was only dangerous OUT of the pocket, and a threat to no one but his team when inside it.

Tebow has to become a decent pocket passer to succeed professionally. The bootlegs, QB draws and Hail Marys reduce that priority; they do NOT eliminate it. Fortunately, he seems to have the athleticism, work ethic and brains to develop pocket passing skills; the raw ability is there, but largely untrained. He has, IMHO, looked better as a pocket passer in each of his last three starts; a lot of the incompletes tonight were not on him, and most of those that were still weren't off by much (there were a few indisputably bad throws, but even Brady and Manning have a few of those from time to time.) I am satisfied with his progress toward developing into a solid if not necessarily stunning pocket passer. It still has yet to happen though, and must, because breaking tackles and chucking a ball 60 yards to whatever color jersey happens to run under it may get you to the playoffs, but it won't get you to the Super Bowl. Just ask the Broncos QB who started the only Conference Championship the team has ever LOST at home.

[Shazam!]

Tebow is the future of the franchise. Period.

With an offseason of working on his passing and maybe a QB summer camp to refine his mechanics, TT will be FINE.

They've barely scratched the surface on what he can do.

He's the only thing that keeps this team relelvant, and he has electrified Broncos Country.

!@#$ those morons on ESPN. Tim IS the future of this team, an identity at QB Denver has not had since Elway, the perfect face of the franchise and leader of the team.

Let them build around him and showcase his talent.

Draft a QB as an insurance policy, but Tebow is the leader of this team now. Period.

[dogfish]

:salute:

Maybe it's blasphemy, but did anyone get Broncos/Browns '86/87 championship chills on that last 95 yard drive?

it definitely crossed my mind. . . .

[OrangeHoof]

While the playcalling can be frustrating and seems unimaginative, I think there are three objectives to it: 1) Minimize turnovers 2) Shorten the game so the defense stays fresh and 3) Save the hits on Tebow until the end when it's necessary.

Tebow didn't run much at all until the final drive tonight. I think that was planned. If you run that wide open zone read option stuff all day, Tebow would wind up as beat up as Michael Vick. Save the wear and tear on his body until it's needed in crunch time.

[bcbronc]

While the playcalling can be frustrating and seems unimaginative, I think there are three objectives to it: 1) Minimize turnovers 2) Shorten the game so the defense stays fresh and 3) Save the hits on Tebow until the end when it's necessary.

Tebow didn't run much at all until the final drive tonight. I think that was planned. If you run that wide open zone read option stuff all day, Tebow would wind up as beat up as Michael Vick. Save the wear and tear on his body until it's needed in crunch time.

especially when Tebow got knocked on his can the first time he ran the zone read, AFTER he had handed the ball off.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Tebow brings out the best in everyone on the team.
He has the desire to win and it's infectious.

He can only improve,, and he will.
I look at it that he has a lot going for him, and a lot of talent and mental capacity, and as he learns other offenses he'll do better.

On top all that;
He shows what predictable drones most sportswriters are.

The Jets looked like a bunch of circus midgets chasing a giant.

[gregbroncs]

I give props to Tebow and especially the defense.

Tebow however still has a lot to learn passing intermediate routes. I don't think he threw a single one on target yesterday. There were a couple that the reciever's maybe should have had but only because they made spectacular plays to get to the ball and did not have enough to finish it. If Tebow puts those passes on target they are easy receptions. Even the pass To Rosario on the last drive was a terribly thrown ball. The reciever completely bailed him out on that one.

However I am hopeful he can learn that and get better at that part of the game. The other things he brings to the table now have me convinced that he should be the starter next season and that they are in a good spot regarding the QB position.

Hell I'd rather have Tebow than any of the 3 QB's we just faced. Never once did I say that after the first 5 games with Orton.

[UnderArmour]

Playoffs.

[CoachChaz]

A few more wins and I think we can take QB off of our first round wish list. It's not pretty, but it's effective. Another post somewhere listed "Ugly butEffective" as our new motto. I agree.

That being said...if he can improve even moderately as a passer, I think he's on his way

[Tned]

especially when Tebow got knocked on his can the first time he ran the zone read, AFTER he had handed the ball off.

Could just be me, but sure looked like the Jets QB was a lot more beat up than the Broncos QB.

[slim]

A few more wins and I think we can take QB off of our first round wish list. It's not pretty, but it's effective. Another post somewhere listed "Ugly butEffective" as our new motto. I agree.

That being said...if he can improve even moderately as a passer, I think he's on his way

And accuracy can be improved by hard work in the offseason, at least to some degree.

I doubt he will ever be a 65% passer, but who freaking cares?

[slim]

Could just be me, but sure looked like the Jets QB was a lot more beat up than the Broncos QB.

Cassel and Sanchez both got killed, while the running QB just keeps on running.

[CoachChaz]

And accuracy can be improved by hard work in the offseason, at least to some degree.

I doubt he will ever be a 65% passer, but who freaking cares?

Maybe not, but if it means 0 INT's, then I'm okay with that. I'd also like to know what his completion percentage would be if Royal alone could remember how to catch a pass and if the line could pass block longer than 1.5 seconds.

Tim needs work and experience, but better receivers and a better line will help as well.

[slim]

Maybe not, but if it means 0 INT's, then I'm okay with that. I'd also like to know what his completion percentage would be if Royal alone could remember how to catch a pass and if the line could pass block longer than 1.5 seconds.

Tim needs work and experience, but better receivers and a better line will help as well.

Yeah, Decker dropped a couple last night too.

I would also add that the play calling has been pretty bad all year, IMO. That hasn't really helped either.

[Mike]

Maybe not, but if it means 0 INT's, then I'm okay with that. I'd also like to know what his completion percentage would be if Royal alone could remember how to catch a pass and if the line could pass block longer than 1.5 seconds.

Tim needs work and experience, but better receivers and a better line will help as well.

Fundamentals (footwork especially) will go a long way. You can tell he is still slow with his reads, but at least he is going through them. Once he gets at game speed and gets his footwork down, he will light it up I think. While the stats aren't great you can see in this game that he is getting closer.

Totally agree with the receivers and pass blocking part though. O-line still is young and so are the WRs, but I still think we need to get a real #1 WR.

One thing is for sure, if Denver wins a couple more games...they should be able to concentrate on other areas of need early in the draft.

[Agent of Orange]

I agree the receivers need to take a lot of fault, both tonight, and in previous games. Unfortunately, Tebow still misses throws that should be automatic, even at a college level, and until he can make those the coaching staff probably does not have any choice but to make the offensive gameplan run-heavy. It also shouldn't be news-worthy when your QB makes a 10 yard completion. That should happen every drive. We're still at the newsworthy point, which is why I am a critic.

But again, tough to complain too much right now. I am looking forward to seeing what we do offensively in the following games. Good thing is we have an extended week to rest now.

QBs miss on throws all the time. Orton missed on a lot of throws too but it wasn't accompanied with comments from the announcer, "you're not legitimate because you didnt connect on that throw".

[CoachChaz]

Fundamentals (footwork especially) will go a long way. You can tell he is still slow with his reads, but at least he is going through them. Once he gets at game speed and gets his footwork down, he will light it up I think. While the stats aren't great you can see in this game that he is getting closer.

Totally agree with the receivers and pass blocking part though. O-line still is young and so are the WRs, but I still think we need to get a real #1 WR.

One thing is for sure, if Denver wins a couple more games...they should be able to concentrate on other areas of need early in the draft.

Lots of directions we can go

[bcbronc]

Could just be me, but sure looked like the Jets QB was a lot more beat up than the Broncos QB.

Not really sure your point here...Tebow didn't run really until the 4th quarter, in fact didn't even really fake running much after he got popped early trying to sell a fake. And there wasn't a lot of Tebow sitting in the pocket looking down field...so yeah, great job by McCoy keeping the hits on Tebow to a minimum.

Tebow also has the big advantage of not lining up opposite Von Mller. Von brings some nasty when he gets near the QB.


Maybe not, but if it means 0 INT's, then I'm okay with that. I'd also like to know what his completion percentage would be if Royal alone could remember how to catch a pass and if the line could pass block longer than 1.5 seconds.

Tim needs work and experience, but better receivers and a better line will help as well.

Better line? Our OL has been outstanding the past few games. I know some give all the credit to our recent success to Tebow, but when ur rushing for as many yards as we have been lately, the OL is ng something right. And the few times yesterday when Tebow was in the pocket and NYJ brought the blitz, they picked it up well.

Considering we have one of, if not the, youngest lines in the league that had a new blocking scheme installed with no offseason (and Fox was quoted some time ago about how complex his running game is) a slow start to the season was to be exPected. But they're finding their stride now and playing great. Imo the role the OL has had on the recent wins isn't getting the kudos deserved.

[Thestrategist1]

Better line? Our OL has been outstanding the past few games. I know some give all the credit to our recent success to Tebow, but when ur rushing for as many yards as we have been lately, the OL is ng something right. And the few times yesterday when Tebow was in the pocket and NYJ brought the blitz, they picked it up well.

Considering we have one of, if not the, youngest lines in the league that had a new blocking scheme installed with no offseason (and Fox was quoted some time ago about how complex his running game is) a slow start to the season was to be exPected. But they're finding their stride now and playing great. Imo the role the OL has had on the recent wins isn't getting the kudos deserved.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree

[catfish]

Better line? Our OL has been outstanding the past few games. I know some give all the credit to our recent success to Tebow, but when ur rushing for as many yards as we have been lately, the OL is ng something right. And the few times yesterday when Tebow was in the pocket and NYJ brought the blitz, they picked it up well.

Considering we have one of, if not the, youngest lines in the league that had a new blocking scheme installed with no offseason (and Fox was quoted some time ago about how complex his running game is) a slow start to the season was to be exPected. But they're finding their stride now and playing great. Imo the role the OL has had on the recent wins isn't getting the kudos deserved.

Absolutely agree[/QUOTE]

agree, The line play has been night and day from the first 2 to the last 3 games. I don't know if teams can't do the same blitzes because they need to keep contain or what, but the line has done well

[NightTerror218]

I give props to Tebow and especially the defense.

Tebow however still has a lot to learn passing intermediate routes. I don't think he threw a single one on target yesterday. There were a couple that the reciever's maybe should have had but only because they made spectacular plays to get to the ball and did not have enough to finish it. If Tebow puts those passes on target they are easy receptions. Even the pass To Rosario on the last drive was a terribly thrown ball. The reciever completely bailed him out on that one.

However I am hopeful he can learn that and get better at that part of the game. The other things he brings to the table now have me convinced that he should be the starter next season and that they are in a good spot regarding the QB position.

Hell I'd rather have Tebow than any of the 3 QB's we just faced. Never once did I say that after the first 5 games with Orton.

he hit DT and Ball several times right on the money.

[Tned]

Not really sure your point here...Tebow didn't run really until the 4th quarter, in fact didn't even really fake running much after he got popped early trying to sell a fake. And there wasn't a lot of Tebow sitting in the pocket looking down field...so yeah, great job by McCoy keeping the hits on Tebow to a minimum.

Tebow also has the big advantage of not lining up opposite Von Mller. Von brings some nasty when he gets near the QB.



That was my point. Tebow bashers like you are over-blowing the taking hits stuff.

[BigDaddyBronco]

That was my point. Tebow bashers like you are over-blowing the taking hits stuff.

I thought bcbronc was a Tebow supporter. It's so confusing now. :confused:

[dogfish]

A few more wins and I think we can take QB off of our first round wish list. It's not pretty, but it's effective. Another post somewhere listed "Ugly butEffective" as our new motto. I agree.

That being said...if he can improve even moderately as a passer, I think he's on his way

i took it off my list last night. . . i've seen enough to want another year. . . leave his motion alone, spend the offseason cleaning up his footwork and timing. . . spend our resources to put more talent around him, including another legit running back. . . do eet!

[BigDaddyBronco]

i took it off my list last night. . . i've seen enough to want another year. . . leave his motion alone, spend the offseason cleaning up his footwork and timing. . . spend our resources to put more talent around him, including another legit running back. . . do eet!

How many names on your big board?

[bcbronc]

That was my point. Tebow bashers like you are over-blowing the taking hits stuff.

lol, the post I replied to mentioned how they didn't run Tebow much in the first three quarters and ended something like "save the wear and tear on his body for when it matters most."

To which I replied that was a good idea especially when it seemed the NYJ gameplan was to hit Tebow every read option, whether Tebow kept the ball or just sold the fake.

Only someone with your reading comprehension level would take that as bashing Tebow. :laugh:

Anyways. as to over-blowing the taking hits stuff, um no. Ever wonder why power RBs have such short careers? Ever hear Tebow talking about how he needs to be smart and slide or get out of bounds? Ever hear what pretty much every running QB that comes into the league says after they take their first hit? Remember when Tebow got hurt in his first preseason? Ya, taking hits is no big deal, Tebow should just pretend he's still in college and go out of his way to truck as many LBs as possible.

Tned, if you think Tebow can hold up playing 4quarters x 16+ games playing like he did in the last drive yesterday, then you know even less about this game than I thought you did.

:coffee:


I thought bcbronc was a Tebow supporter. It's so confusing now. :confused:

That's Tned for you, everything's black or white.

Just to ease your confusion BDB, I'm neither a hater nor a lover. I'm a supporter seeing as he's the QB of my team, and as long as the coaches keep winning as #1 priority (as opposed to giving away games to "develop" Tebow as some call for) I'll continue to be so.

I'm loving the wins and I judge QBs 95% on Ws vs Ls. As long as we keep winning, I don't care how primitive our offense is, or how Tebow looks getting it done, as long as he does.

I do worry the wins might be the result of a bit of a perfect storm so far though. NYJ isn't as good a team as they've been the past couple of years, especially with LT and Greene out of the line up as they were yesterday. Our defense and STs (especially Colquitt) are perhaps having to carry too much of the load in these Ws for long term sustainability, but that's to be expected when you're a heavy run-first team and you're two best RBs are made of glass.

All in all, as far as Tebow goes, he's getting the job done when it matters most, and that's the most important thing. He's also made positive strides each game, which is also huge. BUT, long term, he's not going to be able to keep winning (especially when we're no longer sneaking up on teams) if he keeps missing as many wide open receivers as he's been doing, especially on 3rd down. If saying that makes me a "basher" in Tneds eyes, so be it.

[FlyByU]

I did notice the last drive the play calling was different then the rest of the game. Or TT was calling audibles at the line. Didn't pay much attention to that part can anyone confirm if he was or not and how many times if he did?