Denver Has 41 Million In Cap Room

[DenBronx]

I don't know how credible this article is but wow 41 mill and I'm sure there will be some new adjustments once Mickey D gets to evaluate everything.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/108679-denver-broncos-wishlist-for-2009-offseason

If you are not a big fan of all of the financial mumbo-jumbo that goes on in the NFL, you are not alone.

In the wake of a $225 million dollar increase in the NFL's salary cap for 2009, the Denver Broncos are in great position to make a splash in a very strong free agency pool.

Currently, the Broncos rank 25th in the NFL with just under $99 million in salary for 2008. However, Dre' Bly accepted a pay cut at the beginning of this season, so that will free up another $4-to-5 million for the Broncos.

Rest assured, Denver will give a complete makeover to its defense, which ranked 30th in the NFL in 2008. That makeover could result in the departures of Marlon McCree, Vernon Fox, Marquand Manuel, Nate Webster, Boss Bailey, Ebenezer Ekuban, Kenny Peterson, John Engelberger, Niko Koutouvides, Dewayne Robertson, and Karl Paymah.

While I personally would retain Paymah, and possibly Webster out of that group, the rest may as well pack their bags. Those departures would leave the Broncos with a team salary of about $75 million, freeing up an astounding $50 million dollars in cap space.

Denver's nine draft picks will likely consume about $8-to-9 million of that cap space. Pat Bowlen's new GM and Head Coach will likely have $41 million dollars to spend on a new defense.

Here is what my wish list would look like if I were given $41 million to rebuild a defense.

B/R Ticket Guide Powered by FanSnap.com1. Albert Haynesworth, DT Tennessee Titans

Haynesworth has been absolutely ferocious for the Titans this season. He is a big body, which the Broncos desperately need, and he would provide an instant pass rush to a team which currently has none outside of Elvis Dumervil.

The Titans defensive star could also be a major factor in stopping the run, another area Denver struggles mightily.

Projection: Denver signs Albert Haynesworth to 6-year, $65 million contract, plus a $12 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $13 million, $28 million remaining

2. Julius Peppers, DE Carolina Panthers

Peppers is coming off of a career year for the Panthers. Setting a personal best with 14.5 sacks, he is definitely due for a pay raise.

The superstar defensive lineman would provide instant credibility to the Broncos' pass rush. Not only would he make the sack numbers go up, he would also dramatically improve the production of Elvis Dumervil.

Projection: Denver signs Julius Peppers to 4-year, $44 million contract, plus an $8 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $12 million, $16 million remaining

3. Jonathan Vilma, MLB New Orleans Saints

Vilma could be an interesting name that we hear a lot about come March. This signing makes the most sense of the three so far, since Vilma would probably be interested in being running mates with his former teammate in college, D.J. Williams.

Projection: Denver signs Jonathan Vilma to a 4-year, $20 million contract, plus a $4 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $6 million, $10 million remaining

4. Derrick Ward, RB New York Giants

This move would make a ton of sense especially if Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is named Denver's head coach.

Ward could come relatively cheap, and would make some other Denver RB's expendable to free up even more cap space.

What I love about Ward is that he runs with a chip on his shoulder and with such force that he could have a Michael Turner-type impact for whatever team he signs with.

Projection: Denver signs Derrick Ward to a 3-year, $9 million contract, with a $3 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $4 million, $6 million remaining

Obviously, these signings are premature, and probably out of the question. But if I were given control of $41 million dollars to rebuild a defense considering I already had money set aside for the draft, this is what I would do.

[gobroncsnv]

Can't think of a single reason to keep Webster... Paymah, maybe, if we had a pass rush, and he could play press coverage, as in, was ALLOWED to.

[PatricktheDookie]

There's no way we have cap room.

We never have cap room.

[lex]

Even if thats true, i kind of question if Pat will go crazy after being burned before. One impact player would be nice though, even if its not Haynesworth but someone like Atogwe.

[Cheez Whiz]

and then we're in cap hell for the next 5 years. 6 million remaining? How are we supposed to sign our draft picks?

[PatricktheDookie]

We'll sell Fast Eddie on the street corner.

[Lonestar]

I'd take most of that money and sign some of the upcoming FA's Marshall, Cutler, Royale, Scheffler (based on future performance), etc..

that is after cutting Webster..

[Poet]

I'd take most of that money and sign some of the upcoming FA's Marshall, Cutler, Royale, Scheffler (based on future performance), etc..

that is after cutting Webster..

I think you guys should at least sign one nice defensive player.

[Lonestar]

I think you guys should at least sign one nice defensive player.

I have mixed emotions about that.. We have been burnt so many times I'm gun shy..

hard to remember the last one worth a crap.. someone that did not cost a ton of money and actually paid off..

[Poet]

I have mixed emotions about that.. We have been burnt so many times I'm gun shy..

hard to remember the last one worth a crap.. someone that did not cost a ton of money and actually paid off..

I understand. But Lynch worked out for you. I think you go for someone solid, not a superstar. Dansby seems to be the solid LB with nice instincts.

[Shazam!]

I pray and pray they don't delve into FA too deep. The Draft I think is more important, and trading some dead weight to some potential suckers.

[DenBronx]

Even if thats true, i kind of question if Pat will go crazy after being burned before. One impact player would be nice though, even if its not Haynesworth but someone like Atogwe.

atogwe is high on my free agent wish list too. suggs would be sweet in the 3-4.


I'd take most of that money and sign some of the upcoming FA's Marshall, Cutler, Royale, Scheffler (based on future performance), etc..

that is after cutting Webster..

cutler and marshall need contracts now. royal can play out 2 or 3 more years just like marshall did before we even have to think about it. shefflers contract should even be anywhere near what grahams cost us. sheff seemed to have lost a step this year and i think it will hurt his pocket a bit.

webster will be selling womens shoes for jcpenny when next season starts.

[DenBronx]

I pray and pray they don't delve into FA too deep. The Draft I think is more important, and trading some dead weight to some potential suckers.

pat said he hadnt even thought about it yet. i'm pretty sure we will be players this year. why not? we've been pretty active bringing in scrubs every year. maybe this year we will actually find someone of value to the team.

[Shazam!]

As much as I love Scheff he's always hobbled. If a team is interested in a deal, send him.

[PatricktheDookie]

As much as I love Scheff he's always hobbled. If a team is interested in a deal, send him.

Are we actively trying to convince Jay to leave by shipping off his close friend?

[muse]

Cutler, Marshall, Kuper and Scheff all hit the accelerators on their contracts. Cutler's contract is reported as follows:


Signed a six-year, $47.86 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed. 2009: $1.035 million, 2010: $1.4225 million, 2011: $1.81 million, 2012: Free Agent. 45% of the deal's max value is performance incentives. Among them is a $1.95 million escalator for any year of 2006-2010 that he finishes in the top five in any of the NFL's major passing categories, as well as a $4 million bonus for taking 60% of the snaps in any of 2006-2008 or 70% in 2009. There also is a $500,000 bonus available 2006-2010 for taking 70% of the snaps and either taking 70% of the snaps in a Super Bowl or winning a Super Bowl.

Marshall's earning 2.2m this year as he made the Pro Bowl. Scheff and Kupes were going to earn just over 500k but I don't know what bonuses they're getting.

Extending Marshall and Kuper should be a priority in the offseason. I would also extend Scheff personally as he is a true deep threat.

As for FAs, I think we should bring in 1 or 2 big names and a couple of others to fill gaps in depth. I'd love someone like Karlos Dansby. If we stay in a 4-3, I'd like to see Dansby at MLB with Larsen outside. As much as I like Vilma, he's got persistent knee problems, so he's not really a long term solution. And then I think we should take a look at Peppers or Suggs. But they'll be pricey, especially Peppers.

[WARHORSE]

That not only has to be one of the dumbest reports ever written, whomever took the time to do should be fired.

Anyone who thinks Albert Haynesworth is going to sign for that amount of money is in LA-LA land and should let go of the crack pipe. And the same goes for the amount they have Peppers signing for.


Haynesworth will command at a minimum 20 million in guarantees.

[Broncolingus]

Rest assured, Denver will give a complete makeover to its defense, which ranked 30th in the NFL in 2008. That makeover could result in the departures of Marlon McCree, Vernon Fox, Marquand Manuel, Nate Webster, Boss Bailey, Ebenezer Ekuban, Kenny Peterson, John Engelberger, Niko Koutouvides, Dewayne Robertson, and Karl Paymah.

Why stop there?

NO reason not to pick up a 'good' free agent or two this offseason...

I agree with, War, that unless there's something funny (injury, etc.), Haynesworth (et al) will likely get higher than dude's projecting...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

we'll need to save some of the $$ for the youngsters. Otherwise, just get me Chris Canty and Derrick Ward and let's build thru the draft.

[Superchop 7]

The Broncos, according to USA Today, were 15th in payroll in 2007 at $102,152,344. Last season, they were 27th at $95,599,778."

The cap should be 126 million this season.

WHO IS THE IDIOT THAT WROTE THAT ARTICLE !

We may get extra cap room with kickbacks on "Likely to be earned" incentives.

We may spend "cap" room, but we are always middle of the pack or lower on "actual" spending.

It's a trick Bowlen likes to play to make it look like he is spending big bucks, when in reality, he isn't. This is standard operating procedure for the Broncos.

Another trick is to take the money from the suites and funnel it into another corporation.
This is widespread in the NFL these days and Pat is no exception.

Pat has one of the sweetest deals in the NFL, he can afford to bring in whoever he wants.

It amazes me what people can be led to believe.

Trust......but verify.

[TXBRONC]

There is enough money there to sign a top-notch free agent and to start locking up our younger player to long term contracts. However if came down only doing one or the other I would make sure Marshall, Scheffler, Cutler were squared away first.

[nevcraw]

I think they take the Dolphins aproach and sign role players who are solid in the new schemes. I would not be expecting too many flashy exciting FA pick ups. They will continue to build with the draft, IMO.

[Thnikkaman]

4. Derrick Ward, RB New York Giants

This move would make a ton of sense especially if Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is named Denver's head coach.

Ward could come relatively cheap, and would make some other Denver RB's expendable to free up even more cap space.

What I love about Ward is that he runs with a chip on his shoulder and with such force that he could have a Michael Turner-type impact for whatever team he signs with.

Projection: Denver signs Derrick Ward to a 3-year, $9 million contract, with a $3 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $4 million, $6 million remaining

Obviously, these signings are premature, and probably out of the question. But if I were given control of $41 million dollars to rebuild a defense considering I already had money set aside for the draft, this is what I would do.

Everything else is good but this. We keep Hillis, get rid of every other RB on our squad, and draft the guy in your avatar.

:beer:

[TXBRONC]

I think they take the Dolphins aproach and sign role players who are solid in the new schemes. I would not be expecting too many flashy exciting FA pick ups. They will continue to build with the draft, IMO.

That's same approach we took this year.

[jrelway]

Are we actively trying to convince Jay to leave by shipping off his close friend?

shipping his injury prone buddy would be ok with me. i think even jays getting sick of him hobbling off the field all the time.

[omac]

The article starts off by saying that we should first sign Haynesworth .... huh!?!?!? The Titans, who are all about defense, will let their most important player on defense walk? Let's get Willis, Ed Reed, Troy, Nnamdi, and Mario while were at it. :D

[frauschieze]

The article starts off by saying that we should first sign Haynesworth .... huh!?!?!? The Titans, who are all about defense, will let their most important player on defense walk? Let's get Willis, Ed Reed, Troy, Nnamdi, and Mario while were at it. :D

Uh.....Haynesworth is a free agent and the franchise contract he signed had stipulations in it that said if he met certain criteria (which he did), the Titans could not franchise him again. There have been no contract negotiations. Haynesworth is up for sale to the highest bidder.

[TXBRONC]

Uh.....Haynesworth is a free agent and the franchise contract he signed had stipulations in it that said if he met certain criteria (which he did), the Titans could not franchise him again. There have been no contract negotiations. Haynesworth is up for sale to the highest bidder.

Someone on here mentioned not to long ago that the Titans were working on a long term deal for him.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Bleacher Report, not credible. Poor article.

[Rick]

Even if we had all that room using all of it this year on FAs then having no room to sign new picks in the future or to resign our own guys...just wow.

[MOtorboat]

I once was 40 mil under on Madden. I signed Steve Smith, Bob Sanders, Reggie Bush and Julius Peppers. It was glorious.

[CoachChaz]

I once was 40 mil under on Madden. I signed Steve Smith, Bob Sanders, Reggie Bush and Julius Peppers. It was glorious.

Now try convincing those guys to come play for a young, rookie head coach

[DenBronx]

The cap is supposed to be 126 mill this year and we we're roughly at 99 mill before Bly restructured. I'm thinking we're close to 33 mill in cap room. Still a few adjustments could be made when our front office sits down with the new coaches. But even at 33 mill we could still make a run for an Atogwe, Jacobs or Suggs. Peppers, Haynesworth and possibly Dansby are just going to be too pricey and moving to a 3-4 I think we need to key in on Suggs and sign inside LB Maualuga.

Woodyard/DJ/Maualuga/Suggs

[Kaylore]

There's no way we have cap room.

We never have cap room.

:confused:When have we ever not had cap room?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

:confused:When have we ever not had cap room?

Remember Kaylore, it is a yearly trend on Broncos boards for people to always suppose we won't have money to spend and people won't be willing to structure. . . regardless of what we've done recently as far as signings go in previous years. OH NOEZ NO MONEY EVAS!!! Well, we always figure out a way. . . always have?

Some people just don't know.

[Kaylore]

Remember Kaylore, it is a yearly trend on Broncos boards for people to always suppose we won't have money to spend and people won't be willing to structure. . . regardless of what we've done recently as far as signings go in previous years. OH NOEZ NO MONEY EVAS!!! Well, we always figure out a way. . . always have?

Some people just don't know.

It's just weird to see concern over something that has never been a problem. It reminds me of Y2K.

[TXBRONC]

There's no way we have cap room.

We never have cap room.

We spent a lot less money last year than we have in previous years.

[Thnikkaman]

It's just weird to see concern over something that has never been a problem. It reminds me of Y2K.

Or the end of the Mayan calendar?

[56crash]

Can't think of a single reason to keep Webster... Paymah, maybe, if we had a pass rush, and he could play press coverage, as in, was ALLOWED to.


then you don't know jack !!!!!! Paymah is good in bump and run .

now Smarty pants just how was he used ?:elefant:

[TXBRONC]

As much as I love Scheff he's always hobbled. If a team is interested in a deal, send him.

I disagree because he still has been very productive eventhough he has missed some time.

[DenBronx]

If we we're at 125 mill and the cap is 126 mill then Bowlen would still find ways to sign a big name. We know how to beat the system by funneling money through offshore bank accounts in Europe.

[Nature Boy]

4. Derrick Ward, RB New York Giants

This move would make a ton of sense especially if Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is named Denver's head coach.

Ward could come relatively cheap, and would make some other Denver RB's expendable to free up even more cap space.

What I love about Ward is that he runs with a chip on his shoulder and with such force that he could have a Michael Turner-type impact for whatever team he signs with.

Projection: Denver signs Derrick Ward to a 3-year, $9 million contract, with a $3 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $4 million, $6 million remaining

Obviously, these signings are premature, and probably out of the question. But if I were given control of $41 million dollars to rebuild a defense considering I already had money set aside for the draft, this is what I would do.


Best Idea I've heard. Too bad it's not gonna happen.

.

[BroncoJoe]

Best Idea I've heard. Too bad it's not gonna happen.

.

He could be the next Travis Henry.

[TXBRONC]

He could be the next Travis Henry.

Great another guy with the habit of a rabbit and hankering for smoking weed. :D

[Nature Boy]

It's only weed. The most harmless passive natural herb know to man. I've never known any Bud Head that had a tendency to wanna hurt people.

.

[frauschieze]

It's only weed. The most harmless passive natural herb know to man. I've known any Bud Head that had a tendency to wanna hurt people.

.

It's against the rules, plain and simple. If an NFL player smokes, he doesn't care about his job and I don't want him on the team.

That has nothing to do with my own personal opinions on it.

[Nature Boy]

Or the end of the Mayan calendar?


McDaniels' final year of his contract coincides with the final year of the Mayan Calender.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Lonestar]

:confused:When have we ever not had cap room?

Remember having to cut price and MA because they would not re-do their biggie contracts..

for many years we did not have cap mainly because we were spending 15-30 million a year in dead money from players no longer here..

Many years we had to have 3-5 of the top players to re-do the contracts and pay them signing bonus up front to squeeze under the cap.. Not sure how many times Jake and Rod re did theirs to get us room..

With less FA's last year I can see where we will have less dead cap space this year the years past... Now that does not include alot of the players that may get their asses cut by MC Kid..

[PatricktheDookie]

:confused:When have we ever not had cap room?

All those years where old salaries were dead weight on us, eating away at our salary cap. The Daryl Gardeners, the Dale Carters, and the like...

We haven't been in a position to make a free agent splash in a long time. Last year we were conservative out of necessity, since Henry and Walker's contracts had blown up in our faces and we didn't have the cap room.

Again, I can't remember the last time we had any competitive amount of cap room or were able to sign players without mortgaging future seasons of cap hell.

Am I crazy here?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

just as long as we save enough to redo Cutty and crew when the time comes.

[Lonestar]

All those years where old salaries were dead weight on us, eating away at our salary cap. The Daryl Gardeners, the Dale Carters, and the like...

We haven't been in a position to make a free agent splash in a long time. Last year we were conservative out of necessity, since Henry and Walker's contracts had blown up in our faces and we didn't have the cap room.

Again, I can't remember the last time we had any competitive amount of cap room or were able to sign players without mortgaging future seasons of cap hell.

Am I crazy here?

ALSO remember that Pat put the brakes on Mikeys old buying habits and stated that they wanted to build via the draft and the lower contracts that come out of it..


that plus the increase this year caused the huge amount available..

Frankly I was surprised to see how much we were under last year considering the amount to IR'd kids we had.. and how many replacement contracts we had to hand out..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yep...no more wasting money. Build w/ young talent. Pittsburgh is doing just fine w/ that approach. So is NE.

[Lonestar]

Yep...no more wasting money. Build w/ young talent. Pittsburgh is doing just fine w/ that approach. So is NE.

well there will always be busts in the draft as we have seen over the last 13years or so.. but they are minuscule compared to the huge FA busts we have signed as our last great hope 5 or 6 times now..

[Divinelegion]

We may have a ton of cap room but in a year we have to resign Jay Cutler, Chris Kuper, Brandon Marshall, Tony Sheffler, and Elvis Dumervil (if we dont trade him). It would be fun to make a run to the Superbowl next year by rebuilding our D through FA but it would litteraly cost our entire offense.

[LordTrychon]

Remember having to cut price and MA because they would not re-do their biggie contracts..

for many years we did not have cap mainly because we were spending 15-30 million a year in dead money from players no longer here..

Many years we had to have 3-5 of the top players to re-do the contracts and pay them signing bonus up front to squeeze under the cap.. Not sure how many times Jake and Rod re did theirs to get us room..

With less FA's last year I can see where we will have less dead cap space this year the years past... Now that does not include alot of the players that may get their asses cut by MC Kid..

Wouldn't cutting a biggie contract accelerate the cap hit?

[TXBRONC]

Wouldn't cutting a biggie contract accelerate the cap hit?

Yes it does.

[Lonestar]

Wouldn't cutting a biggie contract accelerate the cap hit?

not sure what biggies contracts we have on D if there are they should be sued for lack of production..:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yes they would accelerate into this coming year maybe 2010 depending on when they were cut..

[elsid13]

All those years where old salaries were dead weight on us, eating away at our salary cap. The Daryl Gardeners, the Dale Carters, and the like...

We haven't been in a position to make a free agent splash in a long time. Last year we were conservative out of necessity, since Henry and Walker's contracts had blown up in our faces and we didn't have the cap room.

Again, I can't remember the last time we had any competitive amount of cap room or were able to sign players without mortgaging future seasons of cap hell.

Am I crazy here?

Yes you are. Shanahan actually did great job in managing the cap and signing FA when Denver felt they were able to get them at price point that Denver value them at.

Eddie Mac on mane does really good job of tracking this stuff (including contact incentives,etc) and he has Denver at 31M without he dead money. That could go up if we cut some folk (hit next season) or restructure deals.

[atwater27]

I don't know how credible this article is but wow 41 mill and I'm sure there will be some new adjustments once Mickey D gets to evaluate everything.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/108679-denver-broncos-wishlist-for-2009-offseason

If you are not a big fan of all of the financial mumbo-jumbo that goes on in the NFL, you are not alone.

In the wake of a $225 million dollar increase in the NFL's salary cap for 2009, the Denver Broncos are in great position to make a splash in a very strong free agency pool.

Currently, the Broncos rank 25th in the NFL with just under $99 million in salary for 2008. However, Dre' Bly accepted a pay cut at the beginning of this season, so that will free up another $4-to-5 million for the Broncos.

Rest assured, Denver will give a complete makeover to its defense, which ranked 30th in the NFL in 2008. That makeover could result in the departures of Marlon McCree, Vernon Fox, Marquand Manuel, Nate Webster, Boss Bailey, Ebenezer Ekuban, Kenny Peterson, John Engelberger, Niko Koutouvides, Dewayne Robertson, and Karl Paymah.

While I personally would retain Paymah, and possibly Webster out of that group, the rest may as well pack their bags. Those departures would leave the Broncos with a team salary of about $75 million, freeing up an astounding $50 million dollars in cap space.

Denver's nine draft picks will likely consume about $8-to-9 million of that cap space. Pat Bowlen's new GM and Head Coach will likely have $41 million dollars to spend on a new defense.

Here is what my wish list would look like if I were given $41 million to rebuild a defense.

B/R Ticket Guide Powered by FanSnap.com1. Albert Haynesworth, DT Tennessee Titans

Haynesworth has been absolutely ferocious for the Titans this season. He is a big body, which the Broncos desperately need, and he would provide an instant pass rush to a team which currently has none outside of Elvis Dumervil.

The Titans defensive star could also be a major factor in stopping the run, another area Denver struggles mightily.

Projection: Denver signs Albert Haynesworth to 6-year, $65 million contract, plus a $12 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $13 million, $28 million remaining

2. Julius Peppers, DE Carolina Panthers

Peppers is coming off of a career year for the Panthers. Setting a personal best with 14.5 sacks, he is definitely due for a pay raise.

The superstar defensive lineman would provide instant credibility to the Broncos' pass rush. Not only would he make the sack numbers go up, he would also dramatically improve the production of Elvis Dumervil.

Projection: Denver signs Julius Peppers to 4-year, $44 million contract, plus an $8 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $12 million, $16 million remaining

3. Jonathan Vilma, MLB New Orleans Saints

Vilma could be an interesting name that we hear a lot about come March. This signing makes the most sense of the three so far, since Vilma would probably be interested in being running mates with his former teammate in college, D.J. Williams.

Projection: Denver signs Jonathan Vilma to a 4-year, $20 million contract, plus a $4 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $6 million, $10 million remaining

4. Derrick Ward, RB New York Giants

This move would make a ton of sense especially if Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is named Denver's head coach.

Ward could come relatively cheap, and would make some other Denver RB's expendable to free up even more cap space.

What I love about Ward is that he runs with a chip on his shoulder and with such force that he could have a Michael Turner-type impact for whatever team he signs with.

Projection: Denver signs Derrick Ward to a 3-year, $9 million contract, with a $3 million signing bonus.

2009 hit: $4 million, $6 million remaining

Obviously, these signings are premature, and probably out of the question. But if I were given control of $41 million dollars to rebuild a defense considering I already had money set aside for the draft, this is what I would do.

This article gave me goosebumps. That is the perfect offseason right there.

Can you say 16-0?

[Simple Jaded]

Unless there is a new CBA in place, Marshall, Scheffler, Kuper and Dumervil will not be unrestricted free agents after the 09 season, without a CBA the threshold for URFA goes from 4 seasons to 6.......meaning they'll be restricted for two more seasons.

This is how teams covered their asses with 06 draft choices if they decided to scrap the last CBA and chance an Uncapped year, which they did.

How important it is to lock these players up early is debatable, Marshall and Kuper are keepers but for max deals? No! Dumervil is a One-Trick-Pony who may have just become antiquated with the new system. Scheffler is a total China Doll, if he wants huge money he should be looking for it elsewhere.

Aside from locking up Cutler/Clady, and to a lesser extent Marshall, Kuper, Harris and Royal, none of their players should prohibit the Broncos from doing whatever it can to improve through free agency.

As for the 41 million, I still don't think that's even close to being accurate.......

[SmilinAssasSin27]

We may have a ton of cap room but in a year we have to resign Jay Cutler, Chris Kuper, Brandon Marshall, Tony Sheffler, and Elvis Dumervil (if we dont trade him). It would be fun to make a run to the Superbowl next year by rebuilding our D through FA but it would litteraly cost our entire offense.

I'm not big on Free Agents as it is. Maybe a piece or 2 where needed, but I like drafted players. If Denver drafts em, they are Broncos. If we sign em via FA, they are just hired guns. It's harder for me to get behind that. Example...I never saw John Lynch as a Bronco. He obviously played in Denver, but dude is a Buccaneer.

May sound stupid, but it's how I feel.

[WARHORSE]

This article gave me goosebumps. That is the perfect offseason right there.

Can you say 16-0?



No.

But I can say, "The article is knee deep in horse****."



See?:salute:

[atwater27]

No.

But I can say, "The article is knee deep in horse****."



See?:salute:

Stay out of my wet dreams!

[PatricktheDookie]

This article gave me goosebumps. That is the perfect offseason right there.

Can you say 16-0?

Jerry Jones would!

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I just want to see Nate Jackson get that 4 year, 12 million dollar extension he deserves.

[frauschieze]

I just want to see Nate Jackson get that 4 year, 12 million dollar extension he deserves.

:laugh:

I should put this in my sig, just to haunt you.

[omac]

Uh.....Haynesworth is a free agent and the franchise contract he signed had stipulations in it that said if he met certain criteria (which he did), the Titans could not franchise him again. There have been no contract negotiations. Haynesworth is up for sale to the highest bidder.

And the Titans are not going to do everything in their power to keep him? He's their most important player. That's like the Colts letting Manning slip through their fingers. It just doesn't sound very realistic.

[frauschieze]

And the Titans are not going to do everything in their power to keep him? He's their most important player. That's like the Colts letting Manning slip through their fingers. It just doesn't sound very realistic.

They can bid on him same as everyone else. From what I understood, Haynesworth has pretty much rebuffed all of the Titans efforts at contract negotiation. Not to say that they don't want him, just that it is extremely unlikely that they'll get him. The time to negotiate with him was a few years ago. IMO, Haynesworth is after the money. Period.

[hamrob]

I think Pat Bowlen has turned into a cheap son of a gun! He didn't dole out jack bone last year and look what it got us.

Yes, we need to build through the draft...but good teams typically explore all options. I think MickeyD will have a little flexibility this offseason...considering he's in his honeymoon stage.

[Lonestar]

I think Pat Bowlen has turned into a cheap son of a gun! He didn't dole out jack bone last year and look what it got us.

Yes, we need to build through the draft...but good teams typically explore all options. I think MickeyD will have a little flexibility this offseason...considering he's in his honeymoon stage.

while he did in prior years he got jack boned by mikey and his bad decisions.. Millions of wasted dollars.. in some cases the clowns did not play for us at all.. or if they did very little in return..

[Dean]

Let's see. We need to obtain DEs, LBs. and Safeties if we remain in a 4-3. We need even more if we go to a 3-4. We need even more O-linemen if we abandon zone blocking and as members of the board have been saying a RB would be great.

If Bowlen doesn't open the purse strings for McKid, next year could make Custer's Massacre look like a moral victory. I mean- Have you seen next year's schedule? :wine: It is enough to drive you to drink.

[Lonestar]

Let's see. We need to obtain DEs, LBs. and Safeties if we remain in a 4-3. We need even more if we go to a 3-4. We need even more O-linemen if we abandon zone blocking and as members of the board have been saying a RB would be great.

If Bowlen doesn't open the purse strings for McKid, next year could make Custer's Massacre look like a moral victory. I mean- Have you seen next year's schedule? :wine: It is enough to drive you to drink.

from the sounds of the weather up there I suspect your drinking anti freeze.

yes next years schedule is a killer lets hope not a coach killer..

I have real low expectations for now depending on what kind of changes on D..

I do not think the OLINE needs to do much more than add some muscle.. Size wise they are about average.. need to add some big weight in the middle not to many 285 pound centers in the league..

They seem to have pass protection down pretty good and were getting the hang of run blocking when mikey got axed..

[Dean]

from the sounds of the weather up there I suspect your drinking anti freeze.

No. . . It was in the 40s today. It's farther north that is 30 and 40 below zero.


yes next years schedule is a killer lets hope not a coach killer..

I have real low expectations for now depending on what kind of changes on D..

I do not think the OLINE needs to do much more than add some muscle.. Size wise they are about average.. need to add some big weight in the middle not to many 285 pound centers in the league..

That 285 pound center is going to the pro bowl. Two 285 pounders equal 570 pounds; zone blocking always allows a double team at the point of attack on interior runs. On the stretch 320 and 350 pounders can seldom get to the second level.


They seem to have pass protection down pretty good and were getting the hang of run blocking when mikey got axed..

That's what we were. Now, let's see what we do. :bebored:

[Simple Jaded]

NE didn't use 350lber's in Doogie's system either.

The size of the Broncos line is right about where NE's is, with the exception of Clady, though I wouldn't mind if they brought in a new LG or moved Kuper over and brought in a RG. A 285lb Center is nothing out of the ordinary in the NFL but Doogie is going to miss Logan Mankins.

Clady has no problem getting out on LB's, that's what this team has been missing out on for the last 10 years, that's why some people have been screaming for upgrades along the OL for a long time.......

[nevcraw]

Or the end of the Mayan calendar?

That shits for real.. :lol:

[Lonestar]

NE didn't use 350lber's in Doogie's system either.

The size of the Broncos line is right about where NE's is, with the exception of Clady, though I wouldn't mind if they brought in a new LG or moved Kuper over and brought in a RG. A 285lb Center is nothing out of the ordinary in the NFL but Doogie is going to miss Logan Mankins.

Clady has no problem getting out on LB's, that's what this team has been missing out on for the last 10 years, that's why some people have been screaming for upgrades along the OL for a long time.......


I will agree with you about getting bigger on the oline and we ahve improved in size this year but think it will get bigger next mostly form the exsisting guys packing on some more muscle..

FWIW past pro bowl centers

2005 even in 2005 they all were bigger than our guys
LeCharles Vernon Bentley Position: C Height: 6-2 Weight: 313 lbs.

Jeffrey Allen Hartings Position: C Height: 6-3 Weight: 303 lbs.

Olin George Kreutz Position: C Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 lbs.

Robbie Tobeck Position: C-G Height: 6-4 Weight: 299 lbs.

2008
Andre Gurode | #65 | C Dallas Height: 6-4 Weight: 318 Age: 30

Matt Birk | #78 | C Minnesota Vikings Height: 6-4 Weight: 309 Age: 32

Jeff Saturday | #63 | C Indianapolis Colts Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 Age: 33

Dan Koppen | #67 | C New England Pats Height: 6-2 Weight: 299 Age: 29

2009
Shaun O'Hara | #60 | C New York Giants Height: 6-3 Weight: 305 Age: 31

Kevin Mawae | #68 | C Tennessee Titans Height: 6-4 Weight: 295 Age: 37
Nick Mangold | #74 | C New York Jets Height: 6-4 Weight: 302 Age: 25

Casey Wiegmann | #62 | C Denver Height: 6-2 Weight: 285 Age: 35

I think if you want the best you have to beef it up..

[Shazam!]

I hope they do that on the DLine too. We need monsters up front. Godzilla and King Kong.

[Lonestar]

I hope they do that on the DLine too. We need monsters up front. Godzilla and King Kong.

I was hoping for T-rex

[Ziggy]

We already have some size at the backup C position. Lichtensteiger goes 310, and in training camp backed up both the guard and center positions. We'll see what position they put him at this season.

[Lonestar]

We already have some size at the backup C position. Lichtensteiger goes 310, and in training camp backed up both the guard and center positions. We'll see what position they put him at this season.

after bringing him in and working with him there seemed to be even more concern for his really short arms, than there was before the draft.. ..


I hope he works out as our center of the future as a 25 pound upgrade over both Nalen and Weigmann.. having talent and having played at a high level in college and that extra strength there will certainly not hurt us.. Down the road..

[Traveler]

Without reading through 6 pages, has anyone confirmed the $41 million figure?

[Lonestar]

Without reading through 6 pages, has anyone confirmed the $41 million figure?


no I do not think so most folks think it more like 30.. I think we will have to wait for the OFFICIAL figures..

[Fan in Exile]

Without reading through 6 pages, has anyone confirmed the $41 million figure?

If you read the article we have something like 26 million right now. The 41 million dollar figure comes after making the cuts that he suggests. The title is really just for impact.

[MOtorboat]

If you read the article we have something like 26 million right now. The 41 million dollar figure comes after making the cuts that he suggests. The title is really just for impact.

Cutting players still counts against the cap, doesn't it...

[Lonestar]

Cutting players still counts against the cap, doesn't it...

depends on how much signing bonus that is left.. we do however get rid of the upcoming salaries.. as well as potential incentive and roster bonuses

[DenBronx]

no I do not think so most folks think it more like 30.. I think we will have to wait for the OFFICIAL figures..

do you know when those come out and where to get them?

[Lonestar]

do you know when those come out and where to get them?

sometime in the near future, I think after the Superbowl.. and when some cuts have been made.. I'd guess mid FEB.. they will be posted here I;m sure by one of the draftniks..

[Nomad]

When is the combine, draft and when is the FA going to be available? And when can McDaniel and co start cutting who they are going to cut?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The draft is the last weekend in April. Combine is Feb 20-26.

[rcsodak]

Remember having to cut price and MA because they would not re-do their biggie contracts..

for many years we did not have cap mainly because we were spending 15-30 million a year in dead money from players no longer here..

Many years we had to have 3-5 of the top players to re-do the contracts and pay them signing bonus up front to squeeze under the cap.. Not sure how many times Jake and Rod re did theirs to get us room..

With less FA's last year I can see where we will have less dead cap space this year the years past... Now that does not include alot of the players that may get their asses cut by MC Kid..

Jr, EVERY NFL team has dead money, for one reason or another. It's nothing that's only linked to denver.

And players have been asked to 'redo' their contracts for ever in a day, as well. How many times did Elway redo his? TD? Sharpe? et al

It's not like the players are losing any money.....in fact, the only part of the equation that does have a chance at getting burned, is usually the owner's pocketbook.

[rcsodak]

I will agree with you about getting bigger on the oline and we ahve improved in size this year but think it will get bigger next mostly form the exsisting guys packing on some more muscle..

FWIW past pro bowl centers
2008
Andre Gurode | #65 | C Dallas Height: 6-4 Weight: 318 Age: 30

Matt Birk | #78 | C Minnesota Vikings Height: 6-4 Weight: 309 Age: 32

Jeff Saturday | #63 | C Indianapolis Colts Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 Age: 33

Dan Koppen | #67 | C New England Pats Height: 6-2 Weight: 299 Age: 29

2009
Shaun O'Hara | #60 | C New York Giants Height: 6-3 Weight: 305 Age: 31

Kevin Mawae | #68 | C Tennessee Titans Height: 6-4 Weight: 295 Age: 37
Nick Mangold | #74 | C New York Jets Height: 6-4 Weight: 302 Age: 25

Casey Wiegmann | #62 | C Denver Height: 6-2 Weight: 285 Age: 35

I think if you want the best you have to beef it up..

Hey, jr....which ones are going to the Pro Bowl? ;)

[rcsodak]

When is the combine, draft and when is the FA going to be available? And when can McDaniel and co start cutting who they are going to cut?

????

What's wrong, B? The cold starting to make you yearn for the spring? :laugh:

[MOtorboat]

I will agree with you about getting bigger on the oline and we ahve improved in size this year but think it will get bigger next mostly form the exsisting guys packing on some more muscle..

FWIW past pro bowl centers

2005 even in 2005 they all were bigger than our guys
LeCharles Vernon Bentley Position: C Height: 6-2 Weight: 313 lbs.

Jeffrey Allen Hartings Position: C Height: 6-3 Weight: 303 lbs.

Olin George Kreutz Position: C Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 lbs.

Robbie Tobeck Position: C-G Height: 6-4 Weight: 299 lbs.

2008
Andre Gurode | #65 | C Dallas Height: 6-4 Weight: 318 Age: 30

Matt Birk | #78 | C Minnesota Vikings Height: 6-4 Weight: 309 Age: 32

Jeff Saturday | #63 | C Indianapolis Colts Height: 6-2 Weight: 298 Age: 33

Dan Koppen | #67 | C New England Pats Height: 6-2 Weight: 299 Age: 29

2009
Shaun O'Hara | #60 | C New York Giants Height: 6-3 Weight: 305 Age: 31

Kevin Mawae | #68 | C Tennessee Titans Height: 6-4 Weight: 295 Age: 37
Nick Mangold | #74 | C New York Jets Height: 6-4 Weight: 302 Age: 25

Casey Wiegmann | #62 | C Denver Height: 6-2 Weight: 285 Age: 35

I think if you want the best you have to beef it up..

All Pro is a better judge, imo

2007 - Jeff Saturday, 292 (That's what he was listed at last year)
2006 - Olin Kreutz, 292
2005 - Jeff Saturday, 292
2004 - Jeff Hartings, 301
2003 - Tom Nalen, 286
2002 - Barrett Robbins, 320
2001 - Kevin Mawae, 289
2000 - Tom Nalen, 286, Kevin Mawae, 289
1999 - Kevin Mawae, 289
1998 - Dermontti Dawson, 288

Forgive me if I'm really failing to see your point.

[Lonestar]

Hey, jr....which ones are going to the Pro Bowl? ;)

all of them were probowl picks for those years..

[Lonestar]

All Pro is a better judge, imo

2007 - Jeff Saturday, 292 (That's what he was listed at last year)
2006 - Olin Kreutz, 292
2005 - Jeff Saturday, 292
2004 - Jeff Hartings, 301
2003 - Tom Nalen, 286
2002 - Barrett Robbins, 320
2001 - Kevin Mawae, 289
2000 - Tom Nalen, 286, Kevin Mawae, 289
1999 - Kevin Mawae, 289
1998 - Dermontti Dawson, 288

Forgive me if I'm really failing to see your point.

which for the most part are from long ago when OLINES were not as big as today..

BTW all of which are bigger than 285 that our guys have been for almost ever..

I do not understand the reluctance of some folks to see that handling the bigger DT that we see today would be easier with a larger Center and OLG.

Once again I'm not advocating fat 350 pounder, but someone in the 305-325 range..

Hamilton has played well as have Nalen,.. But most of the pressure I have seen the past couple of years has been up the middle with Hamilton a couple of time looking like he was on roller skates..

Since he will not be around forever I think it is time to upgrade there.. same for Weigmann now..

I'm not saying cut them just get our "future" players in front of them and allow them to back them up..

Time to move on IMHO..

[MOtorboat]

which for the most part are from long ago when OLINES were not as big as today..

I stopped here...

2007 - 292
2006 - 292
2005 - 292

6 pounds difference.

Sorry, but that's just not a significant enough of a difference to tell me that your argument that they have to be 320 pounds to be successful.

[Kaylore]

which for the most part are from long ago when OLINES were not as big as today..

BTW all of which are bigger than 285 that our guys have been for almost ever..

I do not understand the reluctance of some folks to see that handling the bigger DT that we see today would be easier with a larger Center and OLG.

Once again I'm not advocating fat 350 pounder, but someone in the 305-325 range..

Hamilton has played well as have Nalen,.. But most of the pressure I have seen the past couple of years has been up the middle with Hamilton a couple of time looking like he was on roller skates..

Since he will not be around forever I think it is time to upgrade there.. same for Weigmann now..

I'm not saying cut them just get our "future" players in front of them and allow them to back them up..

Time to move on IMHO..
Three of our linemen are well into 310 range. Hamilton and Wiegman are the only sub 300 linemen. Centers are traditionally lighter because they are the most finesse position on the line and need the agility. Hamilton may or may not be a casualty, but given how our line played, I would say we're doing pretty well.

[Kaylore]

As for the topic on hand. Many of you pointed to Pryce and others as examples of us not having cap room. We could have kept Pryce if we wanted but we didn't think he was worth the money. Well he was.

We could have kept Bert Berry, but we didn't want to pay him. Mistake.

We let Reggie go because thought it was a better deal to spend that money on the Browncos.

The Broncos have the money and if you sign players to a long term contract, you will always have the money.

The Broncos have always had enough money and the always will. We have some of the best capologists on the planet.

[Slick]

I wouldn't be in a big hurry to re-sign Scheffler or Dumervil. Both expendable IMO.

[Lonestar]

I stopped here...

2007 - 292
2006 - 292
2005 - 292

6 pounds difference.

Sorry, but that's just not a significant enough of a difference to tell me that your argument that they have to be 320 pounds to be successful.

read my quotes again.. 320+ for OT and 305-320 of centers and guards..

Please do not put words in my mouth..

And since we rarely do not have an ALL PRO in the squad we just might have to sacrifice a few pounds for skill..

I still believe that our OLINE next year will be 5-15 pounds bigger than it is this year, pretty much across the board.. Mc Kid said he wanted the team to be bigger faster and stronger than this years team.. not sure how you can get stronger with out putting on weight..

[Lonestar]

As for the topic on hand. Many of you pointed to Pryce and others as examples of us not having cap room. We could have kept Pryce if we wanted but we didn't think he was worth the money. Well he was.

We could have kept Bert Berry, but we didn't want to pay him. Mistake.

We let Reggie go because thought it was a better deal to spend that money on the Browncos.

The Broncos have the money and if you sign players to a long term contract, you will always have the money.

The Broncos have always had enough money and the always will. We have some of the best capologists on the planet.


I respect your comments but on this part you are not correct.. price was not worth the 9 million he was scheduled for that last year. A couple maybe but not 9..

for the most part your correct mikey screwed the pooch on resigning or NOT resigning our own players. But on price you are dead wrong.. sorry

[Requiem / The Dagda]

No he isn't.

[MOtorboat]

read my quotes again.. 320+ for OT and 305-320 of centers and guards..

Please do not put words in my mouth..

And since we rarely do not have an ALL PRO in the squad we just might have to sacrifice a few pounds for skill..

I still believe that our OLINE next year will be 5-15 pounds bigger than it is this year, pretty much across the board.. Mc Kid said he wanted the team to be bigger faster and stronger than this years team.. not sure how you can get stronger with out putting on weight..

No, I didn't really put words in your mouth since 320 applies to 305-320. As you can clearly see, just one All-Pro center for the last 10 years has weighed in your supposed weight range to play center efficiently. One of those happens to be our center. I think it's quite clear that your assumptions are wrong on this, sorry.

[Kaylore]

No he isn't.

See? I'm not! :D

Seriously though, Pryce would have been such a boon to this defense. If nothing else it would have made Dumervil more effective on the other side. It starts with the line.

[Lonestar]

No, I didn't really put words in your mouth since 320 applies to 305-320. As you can clearly see, just one All-Pro center for the last 10 years has weighed in your supposed weight range to play center efficiently. One of those happens to be our center. I think it's quite clear that your assumptions are wrong on this, sorry.


OK you just stretched them a bit and took them out of context ..

I'm sorry that I did not understand your motives..

As it stands today, the next guy we have behind either Hamilton or Weigmann is Lichtensteiger at 310.. which if my math is correct is between 305-320..

If it is not we will have to agree to disagree.:salute:

[MOtorboat]

OK you just stretched them a bit and took them out of context ..

I'm sorry that I did not understand your motives..

As it stands today, the next guy we have behind either Hamilton or Weigmann is Lichtensteiger at 310.. which if my math is correct is between 305-320..

If it is not we will have to agree to disagree.:salute:

I used 320 because of Barrett's weight, but I think it's becoming quite obvious that you didn't even look at the list I put up.

[Lonestar]

See? I'm not! :D

Seriously though, Pryce would have been such a boon to this defense. If nothing else it would have made Dumervil more effective on the other side. It starts with the line.

do you really believe he was worth 9 mill at the time about 10% of the cap not counting incentives?

If so, this is moot..

[MOtorboat]

do you really believe he was worth 9 mill at the time about 10% of the cap not counting incentives?

If so, this is moot..

What were the salaries of the five Browns we hired to replace him, and then I'll tell you...

[Navyblue22]

I don't like free-agent. Loyalty is in question. I like players who just want to play profession football league. Free-agent is like a merc. MLB (major league baseball) is payin' players wayyy too much. The '80 pack with people in the STADIUM(S), but lately only the PLAYOFFS seem to fill up the stadium(s). Who pays a pitcher 80 millions dollar? (It was the Dodgers they drafted Dave Brown) Didn't help much for the L.A. Dodgers.
But NFL players should be above 1 million earnin' salary a year. I don't think the players should be cut, 'cause it the coaches decision makin' (play-callin') is the key. I hope the Head Coach makin' the valueable draft picks. And coaches players & moldin' them to be football physical toughness. No matter how much you spend alot, you'll eventually start back buildin' your team again.

[dogfish]

wait, so you didn't like eddie mac, gary zimmerman and mark schlereth?


:confused:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

wait, so you didn't like eddie mac, gary zimmerman and mark schlereth?


:confused:

I actually agree with him to a certain exent. As much as I liked the 3 you mentioned, they also were not the huge name FA additions that ruin a team's salary structure. I'm cool w/ adding a piece here ad there, but I enjoy my teams much more when they are built from within. Look at the San Antonio Spurs. Their core talent is all via the draft and they add a mid level FA here and there, but never anyone who will break the bank. I love that about them. Although the Broncos of the mid 1990s, clearly had FA help, it was still built w/ a lot of home grown talent. And as much as I liked Neil Smith, Alfred Williams and the like, they aren't Broncos. Elway is a Bronco. TD is a Bronco. Sharpe is a Bronco, not a Raven. Atwater is a Bronco, not a Jet. And Lynch is a Buccaneer, not a Bronco. Boss is a Lion. and so on...

Basically, I take more pride in my teams when they can win w/o having to buy talent tht other teams were able to fin first.

[TXBRONC]

I actually agree with him to a certain exent. As much as I liked the 3 you mentioned, they also were not the huge name FA additions that ruin a team's salary structure. I'm cool w/ adding a piece here ad there, but I enjoy my teams much more when they are built from within. Look at the San Antonio Spurs. Their core talent is all via the draft and they add a mid level FA here and there, but never anyone who will break the bank. I love that about them. Although the Broncos of the mid 1990s, clearly had FA help, it was still built w/ a lot of home grown talent. And as much as I liked Neil Smith, Alfred Williams and the like, they aren't Broncos. Elway is a Bronco. TD is a Bronco. Sharpe is a Bronco, not a Raven. Atwater is a Bronco, not a Jet. And Lynch is a Buccaneer, not a Bronco. Boss is a Lion. and so on...

Basically, I take more pride in my teams when they can win w/o having to buy talent tht other teams were able to fin first.

I beg to differ with about Zimmermann he was an elite left tackle when he was brought in.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

but did we have to overpay for him?

[TXBRONC]

but did we have to overpay for him?

Consistent Pro Bowl level play and a Super Bowl Championship, is money well spent.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Consistent Pro Bowl level play and a Super Bowl Championship, is money well spent.

my point was that we DIDN'T overpay. He was a part that was added, but we hardly broke the bank on him or anyone else (except mbe N Smith).

[TXBRONC]

my point was that we DIDN'T overpay. He was a part that was added, but we hardly broke the bank on him or anyone else (except mbe N Smith).

I wasn't getting that out of what you posted. Thanks for clarifying.

[dogfish]

and zimm was no merc-- he went into the hall as a bronco!!


:woot:

[TXBRONC]

and zimm was no merc-- he went into the hall as a bronco!!


:woot:

You got that right. :cool:

[broncohead]

Well IMO we should go after the average player in FA. Grab a NT, DE, and a couple LBers to start and help out the young draftees.

[broncobryce]

We won 2 superbowls with those free agents. It's just hard to tell if they will work out here, or just cash the check and get lazy. I fear Haynesworth might get lazy.

[TXBRONC]

We won 2 superbowls with those free agents. It's just hard to tell if they will work out here, or just cash the check and get lazy. I fear Haynesworth might get lazy.

If we go to a 3-4 defense I don't think Haynesworth would fit in nor do I think he would even come here.

[Cugel]

The Broncos, according to USA Today, were 15th in payroll in 2007 at $102,152,344. Last season, they were 27th at $95,599,778."

The cap should be 126 million this season.

WHO IS THE IDIOT THAT WROTE THAT ARTICLE !

We may get extra cap room with kickbacks on "Likely to be earned" incentives.

We may spend "cap" room, but we are always middle of the pack or lower on "actual" spending.

It's a trick Bowlen likes to play to make it look like he is spending big bucks, when in reality, he isn't. This is standard operating procedure for the Broncos.

Another trick is to take the money from the suites and funnel it into another corporation.

This is widespread in the NFL these days and Pat is no exception.

Pat has one of the sweetest deals in the NFL, he can afford to bring in whoever he wants.

It amazes me what people can be led to believe.

Trust......but verify.

You seem to understand how the salary-cap works with your comment about kickbacks from "likely to be earned incentives" so I don't understand your overall comments!


First of all, Bowlen could have just kept Shanahan and filled the seats for another season if he weren't committed first and foremost to winning a SB. He's on the hook for $21 million to Shanahan alone, and all the other fired assistants have been told their contracts will be honored in full. I don't know what the full total is, but it can hardly be much less than $26-28 million! That's a LOT of money to pay people to sit on their asses for the next 3 years!

He could have kept Shanahan around for another year in order to save money, perhaps let him play out his contract or at least 2 years of it. The fans would have been supportive enough that he wouldn't have an empty stadium to worry about unless the team tanked in 2009, and Shanahan's teams only ever tanked once --- 1999. Every other year they've been competitive until late in the season.

There wasn't even a very strong "dump Shanahan" sentiment in Denver, so Bowlen wasn't under any serious pressure to make a change. Of course, from Bowlen's perspective his income is never enough. But, in truth it's plenty adequate.

Second, "Likely-to-be-earned incentives" that are actually NOT earned in a season count against a team this season, but get ADDED to a teams' salary cap figure for NEXT season, as you seem to realize. Thus, it pays big dividends to be WAY under the cap, and then have various "likely to be earned" incentives that are not in fact met.

Those teams right up against the cap every year, as Denver was, never get any room. Those teams (like the Titans) who had LOTS of cap room, can fill their veteran contracts with "likely to be earned" incentives that are not, in fact, earned -- thus padding their salary cap for next season.

And you can keep going like this, giving the team the cap-room to hire whatever FA they want to.

Some teams will wind up with WAY more than the cap amount when you add back these incentive kickbacks, and some teams will be right up against it.

But, when you look at the overall salary structure, it appears that the team salary paid out in 2007 isn't so high, because they didn't pay those incentives. Being in the middle of the pack is actually an ADVANTAGE, not a disadvantage!

All in all I don't think you can say that Bowlen is being cheap here.

If he were, he'd have kept Shanahan around for at least another season and gotten more of his money's worth from him -- regardless of where the team ended up in 2009. Nobody would have been surprised and most of the fans would have been supportive.

Probably another owner would have looked at that $21 million he was going to have to pay Shanahan if he fired him, and decided to wait a year or so, unless the team was just in the crapper with the fans in total revolt and no interest in filling the corporate suites -- i.e. a situation like Detroit or the Rams.

[rcsodak]

See? I'm not! :D

Seriously though, Pryce would have been such a boon to this defense. If nothing else it would have made Dumervil more effective on the other side. It starts with the line.

It wasn't all roses-n-peaches, regarding Pryce.

He had a health issue, correct?

He was due a huge $$$ amount, correct?

After he signed his contract, his play sucked, correct?

He even admitted to the fact, correct?

He was moaning how he wasn't being schemed correctly, so leaving was a good option for him, correct?

By playing alongside the Dlinemen of the Ravens, he's not having to be "the man", as he would have been in Denver, correct?

The same goes for Berry. Actually, he hasn't done much since he left, with injuries cutting his seasons short.

Same with Heyward, imho. He had 1 good year, and you could easily look at the games in which he got most of his sacks, and they were against shitty teams! Plus, it's not like Denver had the likes of the 'twin towers' at the DT positions, as he had in Jax, and he still didn't exactly light up stats.

Shanny, in his defense, was trying to get the whole package together, not just a piece here/there. And with those guys all wanting big bucks, he didn't think it was feasible. That's how I saw it anyways.

[Shazam!]

RC, I hear what you are saying, but it's really reaching here. Those three guys are better than all the DLinemen we have here on any day.

As great as Dumervil is (he should be converted to LB) he isn't enough. He's way too small.

The fact is, Denver's Dline goes to ?!@#, the whole D has. There is definitely a link, and it's not a stretch to say that Pryce, Berry, Hayward and Dum would be a better DLine than what we have now... In fact if it were possible I'd bet it.

And, in 'defense of Shanny,' he brought in the entire 3-13 Cleveland DLine with Andre... Sounds desperate to me.

[Lonestar]

It wasn't all roses-n-peaches, regarding Pryce.

He had a health issue, correct?

He was due a huge $$$ amount, correct?

After he signed his contract, his play sucked, correct?

He even admitted to the fact, correct?

He was moaning how he wasn't being schemed correctly, so leaving was a good option for him, correct?

By playing alongside the Dlinemen of the Ravens, he's not having to be "the man", as he would have been in Denver, correct?

The same goes for Berry. Actually, he hasn't done much since he left, with injuries cutting his seasons short.

Same with Heyward, imho. He had 1 good year, and you could easily look at the games in which he got most of his sacks, and they were against shitty teams! Plus, it's not like Denver had the likes of the 'twin towers' at the DT positions, as he had in Jax, and he still didn't exactly light up stats.

Shanny, in his defense, was trying to get the whole package together, not just a piece here/there. And with those guys all wanting big bucks, he didn't think it was feasible. That's how I saw it anyways.

I also remember Rod calling him out a couple of times as did Mikey.. for the money he was making it should not have come to that he should have been a self starter and and true leader.. But he was not.. either..

to the contrary once he got his FAT contract he devoted alot of time using the money for a recording company.. not football..

while he could be a real stud when he wanted to be (usually after someone called him out) he did not play up to the money he was making..

[Lonestar]

RC, I hear what you are saying, but it's really reaching here. Those three guys are better than all the DLinemen we have here on any day.

As great as Dumervil is (he should be converted to LB) he isn't enough. He's way too small.

The fact is, Denver's Dline goes to ?!@#, the whole D has. There is definitely a link, and it's not a stretch to say that Pryce, Berry, Hayward and Dum would be a better DLine than what we have now... In fact if it were possible I'd bet it.

And, in 'defense of Shanny,' he brought in the entire 3-13 Cleveland DLine with Andre... Sounds desperate to me.

face it he sucked at picking DL talent..

[Simple Jaded]

For some reason, I seem to remember it differently.......that the main reason Pryce and Mike Anderson were let go was because the salary cap was supposed to drop significantly the next day.

Granted, the deadline was postponed.......at least twice, in fact, but the point is the Broncos had to trim their payroll significantly and Pryce wanted no part of a restructured deal with Denver.

He was as much to blame for the divorce as the Broncos were, he hadn't been playing up to that contract for years.......although, it should be noted that he probably wasn't being used correctly, he is, after all, a defensive lineman and this is, after all, the Denver Broncos.......

[Shazam!]

Pryce was a Cap casualty if I remember correctly, but his constant strain of back problems didn't help.


...it should not have come to that he should have been a self starter and and true leader... But he was not...

Another reason I am glad Shanahan is out of Denver. The man couldn't motivate a mouse into a mouse trap.

[Lonestar]

Pryce was a Cap casualty if I remember correctly, but his constant strain of back problems didn't help.

Yes he went because both him and MA refused to re-do their contracts and thought IMHO that mikey would cave on them.

At the time MA was supposed to get 1 mil for the next year and price was due right at 9mil.. as he was in the second to last if not the last year of his contract IIRC, where the real money was stacked.. .

[Dean]

Another reason I am glad Shanahan is out of Denver. The man couldn't motivate a mouse into a mouse trap.

Exactly how is that done? :questionmark:

[anton...]

Exactly how is that done? :questionmark:

with cheese...

[rcsodak]

with cheese...

What....no wine? :confused:

[MOtorboat]

What....no wine? :confused:

Hey, everyone, look...a football post...

Sort of.

:coffee:

[DenBronx]

34 mill huh? I don't think that's the end either. Seriosly do you guys really think a rookie head coach is going to sit idle and not go after some big names this offseason?


All 32 teams ranked by current salary cap space against the 2009 limit of $123 million per club. They are ranked from most cap room (Tampa) to least (NY Jets). These figures are not exact, but after weeks of exhaustive research at the NFLPA website, NFLMedia, ESPN, FOX, & local newspaper sites, they are pretty close. Detailed free agency & contract info included.

by John Miller, Draftsharks.com

1. Tampa Bay -- $42m under – New GM Mark Dominik steps into the fallout from one of the worst collapses in history. The Bucs were 9-3 and cruising. They finished 9-7 and out of the playoffs, losing in Week 17 to ex-coach Jon Gruden’s ex-team, the Oakland Raiders. Every team since 1993 that started 9-3 had made the playoffs until now. Time to get younger. DE Kevin Carter, LB Derrick Brooks, and CB Ronde Barber are turning 36, 36, and 34. Can they lock up free-agent WR Antonio Bryant now that his mentor Gruden was canned? He’ll test the market. QBs Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, and Luke McCown will all be gone. Classic rebuilding mode here.

2. Arizona -- $41m under – Charley Casserly quoted this astounding figure on CBS last week. It’s kind of deceiving because few teams have as many big names to re-sign. They only have 37 players under contract this year. QB Kurt Warner, DE Bert Berry, DE Antonio Smith and LB Karlos Dansby are free agents. Would Warner stay on a discount so he can stay with Larry Fitzgerald? Obviously WR Anquan Boldin wants more money. WR Steve Breaston warrants an extension. They can cut RB Edgerrin James and DE Chike Okeafor and free up $7m. Overall there’s no reason why Arizona can’t sign studs like DE Terrell Suggs (who went to ASU), C/G Jason Brown (another stud Raven), and maybe RB Darren Sproles (change-up for Hightower?).

3. Denver -- $34m under – New coach Josh McDaniels has needs everywhere, primarily on defense. This unit could see a massive slash-fest that frees up another $15m or so, giving them near $50m to spend! S Marlon McCree, S Marquand Manuel, LB Nate Webster, LB Boss Bailey, DE Ebenezer Ekuban, & DT Dewayne Robertson are just 6 of maybe 10-12 defense cap-cuts. McDaniels won’t leave offense off his wish list since he’s holding a platinum credit card. Free-agent RB Derrick Ward is a perfect fit. They have 2 great WRs in Brandon Marshall & Eddie Royal, but what about adding WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh? McDaniels witnessed T.J. burning New England for 26 catches, 340 yards and 1 TD in the last 3 meetings.

4. Kansas City -- $33m under – The youngest club in the league last year, and the stingiest too. “Astonishingly, the Kansas City Chiefs elected to not carry forward almost $22m of available cap room to 2009, preferring to leave their money on the table in 2008, never to be used again,” writes Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post. New GM Scott Pioli has complete control of operations & personnel and only answers to owner Clark Hunt. You can bet Pioli has the green light to spend – and this cap money plus the 3rd overall pick attracted him to the job. The real question is: What does he do with Larry Johnson?

5. Tennessee -- $31m under – DT Albert Haynesworth is this year’s big prize. They can’t franchise him again because of incentive clauses. Insiders say Haynesworth likes Nashville and might stay on a hometown discount but that’s unlikely. 2-3 other teams will offer tongue-dropping cash and he will leave. QB Vince Young’s cap figure is a manageable $4.6m but it jumps to $14.2m in 2010. If they cut Young it’s a $7.7m cap hit. Owner Bud Adams won’t give up on the flaky kid. Overall the Titans are not big shoppers so don’t look for major splashes. Note: C Kevin Mawae is 38. You know the Titans would love to pry free-agent C Jeff Saturday away from Indy.


22. San Diego -- $14m under – Time for semi-rebuilding on both sides of the ball. Not a complete housecleaning, but GM A.J. Smith knows he has to shake it up. But first he has to extend Philip Rivers, Shawne Merriman and Vincent Jackson, all going into the last year of their deals. As crazy as it seems, ending it with LaDainian Tomlinson makes sense. He’s 30 and his body is breaking down. Dumping him off frees up $6.725m in cap space. They also want to re-sign Darren Sproles, who was their MVP in December & January.


28. Oakland -- $4m under – Ouch, CB DeAngelo Hall counts $5m in dead money after being cut. To make it worse he suddenly played like a Pro Bowler again in Washington. WR Javon Walker has a $5m roster bonus due next month. He’ll actually collect it because of an injury guarantee – and his cap hit is $14m if they cut him. Stupid contracts, Al. OT Robert Gallery will have to rework his deal to shave off his $9.2m cap charge.



32. New York Jets -- $7m over – Whew, last year they doled out over $100 million in guaranteed dollars. Those bonuses are pro-rated out over the next 4-5 years so they’re going to be in and out of cap jail for a while. Laveranues Coles counts $7m and they need him to accept a pay cut, which he won’t. Leon Washington deserves a big extension. Ks Jay Feely and Mike Nugent are both free agents – Nugent was hurt and Feely might have stolen the gig.

** 2009 is the last year with a salary cap under the current NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement. It’s complicated but you can learn more here at CBSsports.com.

[dogfish]

that rocks. . .


but IMO, spending on the defense is the way to go-- the O is FINE, we have a few needs, but nothing that should require FA spending. . . if we want to bring in free agents, get 'em on the defensive side of the ball where they're desperately needed! i'd much rather bring in a few quality defenders who can make an impact right away, and draft a RB in the top three rounds-- they rarely require much development, and fresh legs are always better. . . we could use developmental prospects at TE and interior OL, and we have enough second day picks to get 'em, but don't spend free agent cash on an againg star like TJ when we have two young studs at the position and an excellent slot receiver. . .

go get peppers, or chris canty, karlos dansby, o.j. atogwe, jermaine phillips, dunta robinson, or gabe watson. . . then draft bj raji - lesean mccoy - connor barwin, or rey maualuga - larry english - donald brown, everette brown - patrick chung - james davis, or chris wells, ron brace, daniel pegues. . . somthin' like that. . . . on the second day, focus on front seven depth with said developmental OL and TE. . . .

[DenBronx]

that rocks. . .


but IMO, spending on the defense is the way to go-- the O is FINE, we have a few needs, but nothing that should require FA spending. . . if we want to bring in free agents, get 'em on the defensive side of the ball where they're desperately needed! i'd much rather bring in a few quality defenders who can make an impact right away, and draft a RB in the top three rounds-- they rarely require much development, and fresh legs are always better. . . we could use developmental prospects at TE and interior OL, and we have enough second day picks to get 'em, but don't spend free agent cash on an againg star like TJ when we have two young studs at the position and an excellent slot receiver. . .

go get peppers, or chris canty, karlos dansby, o.j. atogwe, jermaine phillips, dunta robinson, or gabe watson. . . then draft bj raji - lesean mccoy - connor barwin, or rey maualuga - larry english - donald brown, everette brown - patrick chung - james davis, or chris wells, ron brace, daniel pegues. . . somthin' like that. . . . on the second day, focus on front seven depth with said developmental OL and TE. . . .



i thinking breaking the piggy bank for housh would be retarded. obviosly the guy that wrote the article doesnt see royal as a rising star or he just doesnt believe in marshall.

meh, on te im thinking 6th or 7th round, nothing sooner.

peppers would be nice. i prefer suggs but i think balt is going to keep him. peppers has stated he wants to go to a team that plays the 3-4. atogwe is a must if we dont go after bruton or chung in the draft.

[Lonestar]

Hey folks Pat reined mikey in last year on FA's and made cuts in the FO for a reason..

The Broncos and Pat are not made out of money.. Just because they have the room does not mean that they will spend all of the 35-55 mil..

I think the purse will open up a bit more this year, but I still believe that Pat is tuned into building via the draft..

With the good drafts lately and a new coaching team in place I think we will see a few well placed FA's come to town but hopefully NO more over the hill types mikey liked to bring in..

[DenBronx]

Hey folks Pat reined mikey in last year on FA's and made cuts in the FO for a reason..

The Broncos and Pat are not made out of money.. Just because they have the room does not mean that they will spend all of the 35-55 mil..

I think the purse will open up a bit more this year, but I still believe that Pat is tuned into building via the draft..

With the good drafts lately and a new coaching team in place I think we will see a few well placed FA's come to town but hopefully NO more over the hill types mikey liked to bring in..


Who do you suggest? Our safeties suck, Mays decided to play one more year and Chung might not be there at #44. I'm high on David Bruton out of Notre Dame and he should be there in round 4 but there's no guarantees. So one good free agent would be Atogwe from St Louis. With a projected 34-50 mill whens it's all said and done I think we have to seriously look at Peppers too.

That would leave ILB and NT for the draft. I'd be ok with trading down and picking up JL in the late 1st to play ILB. Still we could target a NT in rounds 2-5 and maybe sign someone as a backup.

[Lonestar]

Who do you suggest? Our safeties suck, Mays decided to play one more year and Chung might not be there at #44. I'm high on David Bruton out of Notre Dame and he should be there in round 4 but there's no guarantees. So one good free agent would be Atogwe from St Louis. With a projected 34-50 mill whens it's all said and done I think we have to seriously look at Peppers too.

That would leave ILB and NT for the draft. I'd be ok with trading down and picking up JL in the late 1st to play ILB. Still we could target a NT in rounds 2-5 and maybe sign someone as a backup.

Hey I'm not a big college football fan as it currently conflicts with my daughters VB schedule, for that matter a draft guy till after the combine and then marginally so.. mikey never looked at the guys I liked but now maybe with Mc Kid perhaps he will like some of them..

Since we really do not know what scheme Nolan is going to try to do this year and which existing players might fit.. I'll wait to see who comes and goes..

I like woodyard (SS), Barrett (FS), DJ, Larsen, Champ, Thomas and maybe Powell to stick long term regardless of what they do in the draft/FA..

As far as FA's I do not think Pat will be as free flowing as some do, considering his stance last year and the blunders that we did make doing them..

I do believe that Pat will give him a budget to stay under and then allow his HC, Pseudo GM and VP to make those decision and use it wisely..

I do not think we will hit the top of the cap like we have been doing for years.. unless we get hit with alot of DEAD cap space again from players being cut.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think our Safety situation prior to week 10 is worlds different than that of weeks 11-17. We now know Barrett has great potential. We also know that Wes makes plays and most of us want him on the field. I have no issue w/ drafting/signing Safety depth, but I don't wanna spend a lot of $$ or a high pick.

[Lonestar]

I think our Safety situation prior to week 10 is worlds different than that of weeks 11-17. We now know Barrett has great potential. We also know that Wes makes plays and most of us want him on the field. I have no issue w/ drafting/signing Safety depth, but I don't wanna spend a lot of $$ or a high pick.

good post but let me add.. I would not be opposed to picking up a Reed or Polamalu type premiere Safety we have all seen what a difference ONS safety can make like in this years playoffs or when the colts had Saunders back for their playoff run and Superbowl win..

I say that realizing that even Polamalu would not have helped last years team.. But As much as I like Barrett, I'd take Polamalu in a heart beat..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Agree, but a the same time Polamalu and Reed wouldn't matter if the front 7s weren't so strong.

[TXBRONC]

Who do you suggest? Our safeties suck, Mays decided to play one more year and Chung might not be there at #44. I'm high on David Bruton out of Notre Dame and he should be there in round 4 but there's no guarantees. So one good free agent would be Atogwe from St Louis. With a projected 34-50 mill whens it's all said and done I think we have to seriously look at Peppers too.

That would leave ILB and NT for the draft. I'd be ok with trading down and picking up JL in the late 1st to play ILB. Still we could target a NT in rounds 2-5 and maybe sign someone as a backup.

Who is going be out there with experience as a nose tackle?

[DenBronx]

Who is going be out there with experience as a nose tackle?

Not sure who out of this list can play NT other than Haynesworth. Slim choices, most of these guys play in a 4-3.

DT
1. Albert Haynesworth (Tennessee)
2. Rocky Bernard (Seattle)
3. Jovan Haye (Tampa Bay)
4. John Thornton (Cincinnati)
5. Tank Johnson (Dallas)
6. Jonathan Babineaux (Atlanta) - Resigned, 5 years, 25 million by Atlanta
7. La'Roi Glover (St. Louis)
8. Larry Tripplett (Seattle)
9. Shaun Cody (Detroit)
10. Darwin Walker (Carolina)
11. Grady Jackson (Atlanta)
12. Gabe Watson (Arizona)
13. Mike Wright (New England)
14. Colin Cole (Green Bay)
15. Ryan Sims (Tampa Bay)

[Lonestar]

Not sure who out of this list can play NT other than Haynesworth. Slim choices, most of these guys play in a 4-3.

DT
1. Albert Haynesworth (Tennessee)
2. Rocky Bernard (Seattle)
3. Jovan Haye (Tampa Bay)
4. John Thornton (Cincinnati)
5. Tank Johnson (Dallas)
6. Jonathan Babineaux (Atlanta) - Resigned, 5 years, 25 million by Atlanta
7. La'Roi Glover (St. Louis)
8. Larry Tripplett (Seattle)
9. Shaun Cody (Detroit)
10. Darwin Walker (Carolina)
11. Grady Jackson (Atlanta)
12. Gabe Watson (Arizona)
13. Mike Wright (New England)
14. Colin Cole (Green Bay)
15. Ryan Sims (Tampa Bay)

and hanesworth is nota true NT either.. Is much better as a DT with a NT partner next to him

[DenBronx]

and hanesworth is nota true NT either.. Is much better as a DT with a NT partner next to him

Ive seen many reports that he can play both NT and DT. Anyhow, I don't think he would have trouble doing it.

http://media.www.thehullabaloo.com/media/storage/paper958/news/2008/11/21/Sports/Nfl-Evaluation-3557854.shtml

NFL MVP: Albert Haynesworth, DT, Tennessee Titans. In a year where no one offensive player truly stands out (and don't try saying Kurt Warner. No QB who loses five fumbles along with seven interceptions in 11 games is deserving of the MVP), this award should be given to the biggest game-changer on the defensive side for once.

The Titans thus far are 10-0, thanks in large part to their league-best defense, and it all starts with Albert Haynesworth. This monstrous tackle happens to lead his team in sacks with 6.5, something rare for nose tackles, who are used to seeing double and even triple teams on almost every play.

By taking on so many players at once, he allows other players to get into the backfield, who either put pressure on the QB or stop the run. A player like Haynesworth lining up at the nose tackle makes everybody's job on defense that much easier. This defense starts and ends with Haynesworth.

http://www.newerascouting.com/albert-haynesworth-scouting-report/

Albert Haynesworth Scouting Report

6’6”, 320 pounds
Year: 7th
School: Tennessee

Career Statistics:
TCK: 249 / SCK: 21.5 / FF: 4 / FR: 2
Career Transactions:
Drafted in the 1st round (15th overall) by the Tennessee Titans in 2002 NFL Draft.

General Traits:

Haynesworth’s image will forever be tainted because of his direct involvement in one of the ugliest on-field incidents the league has ever seen. The stomping of Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode’s bare forehead has placed a bad boy persona next to Haynesworth but ever since that day the massive defensive tackle has taken a complete 180 degree turn. He is no longer an inconsistent player on the field and his attitude has altered from lazy and selfish to that of a team first, all out effort type. His size makes it impossible for a single lineman to move him where he wants and his athletic ability allows him to penetrate to collapse the pocket and close running lanes. The drawback to his 6’6” frame however is the lack of protection for his legs as he has been nicked up every season of his career to this point.

Position Traits:

Quickness: Often the first defensive linemen to move after the snap. Possesses tremendous short area explosion and can be in the quarterback’s face before he reaches the end of his drop back.

Strength: Simply too strong and powerful from top to bottom for a single blocker to deal with. He has the ability to put forth all his weight into initial contact with a blocker and it creates a new line of scrimmage 2 yards into the backfield. When double teamed, Haynesworth can still bull rush the group deep into the pocket consistently.

Instincts/Recognition: Recognizes the screen better than most linemen and can put himself in position to disrupt the throwing lane. He always has a good idea of where the play is headed and can read a block well enough to put make the correct first few steps after the snap.

Pass Rush: A master of collapsing the pocket. He can toss a single blocker aside and explode toward the quarterback unmanned or drive the double team into the passer’s face. He has refined his pass rush moves after initial contact is made and does a good job of preventing the blocker’s hands from locking on. He can rush off the edge as well and still get to the quarterback because he has more room to gain momentum.

Pursuit: Can get from point A to point B in short space within a blink. Has surprising quickness from the A gap to C gap and closes fast. Won’t be much of a factor downfield as his athleticism outside of that short space is very limited.

Run Defending: Haynesworth shoots the gaps and disrupts by penetrating. That will open up cutback lanes however and will sometimes take him out of the play. When he is supposed to hold ground and stay in his gap, he will stand out of his stance which makes it a lot easier to move him.

Tackling: Good tackler in the interior that completely engulfs the ball carrier and violently slams him to the ground. Will sometimes tackle too high but it rarely matters because of his size and strength.

Technique/Leverage: One would think that a 6’6” interior defensive lineman would struggle with leverage. Not the case with Hayneworth. He consistently keeps his pads under his blocker and gets his hands in position to drive them up and back. His upward spike in play has a lot to do with his improvement of overall technique. Hands, feet, and body control are all top notch. When he tires, he leaves himself open to cut blocks and will spend a lot of time on the ground.

[Lonestar]

Ive seen many reports that he can play both NT and DT. Anyhow, I don't think he would have trouble doing it.

http://media.www.thehullabaloo.com/media/storage/paper958/news/2008/11/21/Sports/Nfl-Evaluation-3557854.shtml

NFL MVP: Albert Haynesworth, DT, Tennessee Titans. In a year where no one offensive player truly stands out (and don't try saying Kurt Warner. No QB who loses five fumbles along with seven interceptions in 11 games is deserving of the MVP), this award should be given to the biggest game-changer on the defensive side for once.

The Titans thus far are 10-0, thanks in large part to their league-best defense, and it all starts with Albert Haynesworth. This monstrous tackle happens to lead his team in sacks with 6.5, something rare for nose tackles, who are used to seeing double and even triple teams on almost every play.

By taking on so many players at once, he allows other players to get into the backfield, who either put pressure on the QB or stop the run. A player like Haynesworth lining up at the nose tackle makes everybody's job on defense that much easier. This defense starts and ends with Haynesworth.

http://www.newerascouting.com/albert-haynesworth-scouting-report/

Albert Haynesworth Scouting Report

6’6”, 320 pounds
Year: 7th
School: Tennessee

Career Statistics:
TCK: 249 / SCK: 21.5 / FF: 4 / FR: 2
Career Transactions:
Drafted in the 1st round (15th overall) by the Tennessee Titans in 2002 NFL Draft.

General Traits:

Haynesworth’s image will forever be tainted because of his direct involvement in one of the ugliest on-field incidents the league has ever seen. The stomping of Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode’s bare forehead has placed a bad boy persona next to Haynesworth but ever since that day the massive defensive tackle has taken a complete 180 degree turn. He is no longer an inconsistent player on the field and his attitude has altered from lazy and selfish to that of a team first, all out effort type. His size makes it impossible for a single lineman to move him where he wants and his athletic ability allows him to penetrate to collapse the pocket and close running lanes. The drawback to his 6’6” frame however is the lack of protection for his legs as he has been nicked up every season of his career to this point.

Position Traits:

Quickness: Often the first defensive linemen to move after the snap. Possesses tremendous short area explosion and can be in the quarterback’s face before he reaches the end of his drop back.

Strength: Simply too strong and powerful from top to bottom for a single blocker to deal with. He has the ability to put forth all his weight into initial contact with a blocker and it creates a new line of scrimmage 2 yards into the backfield. When double teamed, Haynesworth can still bull rush the group deep into the pocket consistently.

Instincts/Recognition: Recognizes the screen better than most linemen and can put himself in position to disrupt the throwing lane. He always has a good idea of where the play is headed and can read a block well enough to put make the correct first few steps after the snap.

Pass Rush: A master of collapsing the pocket. He can toss a single blocker aside and explode toward the quarterback unmanned or drive the double team into the passer’s face. He has refined his pass rush moves after initial contact is made and does a good job of preventing the blocker’s hands from locking on. He can rush off the edge as well and still get to the quarterback because he has more room to gain momentum.

Pursuit: Can get from point A to point B in short space within a blink. Has surprising quickness from the A gap to C gap and closes fast. Won’t be much of a factor downfield as his athleticism outside of that short space is very limited.

Run Defending: Haynesworth shoots the gaps and disrupts by penetrating. That will open up cutback lanes however and will sometimes take him out of the play. When he is supposed to hold ground and stay in his gap, he will stand out of his stance which makes it a lot easier to move him.

Tackling: Good tackler in the interior that completely engulfs the ball carrier and violently slams him to the ground. Will sometimes tackle too high but it rarely matters because of his size and strength.

Technique/Leverage: One would think that a 6’6” interior defensive lineman would struggle with leverage. Not the case with Hayneworth. He consistently keeps his pads under his blocker and gets his hands in position to drive them up and back. His upward spike in play has a lot to do with his improvement of overall technique. Hands, feet, and body control are all top notch. When he tires, he leaves himself open to cut blocks and will spend a lot of time on the ground.

good post and find BUT
hey I'd normally loved to have him but I'd rather have a TRUE NT instead.. last year would have been totally different with him.. Even slowish could not have screwed that much talent up..

[broncosinindy]

Albert Haynesworth Despite his heigth would be a very effective NT in the 3-4 scheme he does everything a NT does and excells at it. He would immediatly make this a better team.

Red Flag. is his superman play because he is looking to get paid?

Concerns Woudl he want to play in a 3-4. Whose team is now switching to a 3-4 scheme

If it were up to me. I think his game would translate better to a DE in the 3-4 he would still need to take up the blocks. but would add a demension to getting after the QB.
Nolan puts a high emphasis on fatties at POA. who can get there hands in throwing lanes which AH can do. and is a really long player.

[BRONCOSFREAK765]

vilma was shipped to N.O, because he wasnt a good fit for the 3-4...i dont see us making a play for him...plus he will want too much money since he robbed dj williams of his def rookie of the yr award.

[Lonestar]

vilma was shipped to N.O, because he wasnt a good fit for the 3-4...i dont see us making a play for him...plus he will want too much money since he robbed dj williams of his def rookie of the yr award.

I think there was also some concern about his knee that had been hurt and operated on a couple of times..

[Dean]

Who is going be out there with experience as a nose tackle?

Personally, I would like Gabe Watson out of Arizona.

[TXBRONC]

Personally, I would like Gabe Watson out of Arizona.

Has Gabe ever played the position? If I'm not mistaken the Cardinals run a 4-3.

[dogfish]

Has Gabe ever played the position? If I'm not mistaken the Cardinals run a 4-3.


they run both fronts, and he has indeed played the position-- he's no superstar, but he's the best veteran NT available this year unless you include haynseworth in the conversation. . . .

[elsid13]

they run both fronts, and he has indeed played the position-- he's no superstar, but he's the best veteran NT available this year unless you include haynseworth in the conversation. . . .

The problem that the sites are now listing him RFA. Which I don't think is right, because he was one last year too I think. He not worth a draft pick Warm up to the idea of Ron Fields (NT SF), boys and girls.

[Ziggy]

The problem that the sites are now listing him RFA. Which I don't think is right, because he was one last year too I think. He not worth a draft pick Warm up to the idea of Ron Fields (NT SF), boys and girls.


Watson was drafted in 2006 and signed to a 3 year contract. So while he has played out his contract, he will be a restricted free agent due to the fact that he has been in the league for less than 4 years.

[Dean]

The problem that the sites are now listing him RFA. Which I don't think is right, because he was one last year too I think. He not worth a draft pick Warm up to the idea of Ron Fields (NT SF), boys and girls.


When he stopped the Steeler's third and goal at the one yard line for a loss, he looked like someone we could use.

[Nature Boy]

they run both fronts, and he has indeed played the position-- he's no superstar, but he's the best veteran NT available this year unless you include haynseworth in the conversation. . . .


The Cards are a majority 4-3 based defense.

.

[Nature Boy]

they run both fronts, and he has indeed played the position-- he's no superstar, but he's the best veteran NT available this year unless you include haynseworth in the conversation. . . .


Watson plays DT in a 4-3 defense and he's not even their starter. He's definitely huge at 6'3'' and 332lbs listed but would he really be that stud NT, run stuffer, block eater we need next year? Probably not.

.

[Dean]

Here is an update on the Broncos salary cap for this year.





2009 NFL Salary Cap Figures
January 23, 2009

Sponsored by


For the sake of this installment, we have designated teams that are less than $5M under the cap in RED. These are teams that have little money to sign free agents and may need to make cuts or restructure salaries in order to sign all of their draft picks. Teams in BLACK, which are between $5M and $20M under the cap, are teams that look to be in pretty good shape in terms of adding more veterans and signing all of their rookies without having to take drastic measures. Teams in GREEN are teams that are well under the cap and should have plenty of room to sign free agents and rookies.

With the latest extension to the CBA, the 2009 salary cap is approximately $123,000,000 which represents a nice increase over last year's $116.7 M figure. (Note that the cap was "just" $85.5 M in 2005, the final season prior to the CBA's extension and $102 M in 2006 after the CBA extension.)

Keep in mind that these numbers remain tentative -- and are changing on a daily basis. These "unofficial" figures are approximate as of January 23, 2009 and were compiled courtesy of the NFLPA and other various media sources. These numbers include the cap adjustements for LTBE incentives that were never achieved last season and have been credited against the 2009 cap. Note that the teams that appear to be over the cap had pending contracts in the works at the time of this complilation that would likely have freed the necessary cap space. After all, we know that the league would not allow a team to sign a player to a contract that would put them over the salary cap!


Projected 2009 NFL Salary Cap Space for Each Team

Rank Team $ Under the Cap
1 Tampa Bay Buccaneers $42000000
2 Arizona Cardinals $41000000
3 Denver Broncos $34000000
4 Kansas City Chiefs $33000000
5 Tennessee Titans $31000000
6 Miami Dolphins $28000000
7 Buffalo Bills $27000000
8 Detroit Lions $26000000
9 San Francisco 49ers $26000000
10 Houston Texans $25000000
11 Philadelphia Eagles $25000000
12 Cincinnati Bengals $22000000
13 New England Patriots $21000000
14 Minnesota Vikings $20000000
15 Atlanta Falcons $20000000
16 Pittsburgh Steelers $19000000
17 Baltimore Ravens $19000000
18 Chicago Bears $19000000
19 Green Bay Packers $18000000
20 Cleveland Browns $17000000
21 Jacksonville Jaguars $16000000
22 San Diego Chargers $14000000
23 NY Giants $11000000
24 Dallas Cowboys $10000000
25 Carolina Panthers $9000000
26 Seattle Seahawks $9000000
27 St. Louis Rams $8000000
28 Oakland Raiders $4000000
29 Indianapolis Colts $2000000
30 Washington Redskins $-3000000
31 New Orleans Saints $-5000000
32 NY Jets $-7000000



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There is money available to get some premium free agents if they choose to do so.

[dogfish]

wow! how nice is it to see us at the top of that chart instead of the bottom for a change?

[Italianmobstr7]

wow! how nice is it to see us at the top of that chart instead of the bottom for a change?

It's a beautiful thing. 3rd in the league in salary available. I hope we see at least 1 big name FA brought in. Peppers please! Maybe one of those Baltimore LB's too.

[Lonestar]

Still do not see us making a huge splash here especially after the last few years fiasco's.. spending tons of money with nothing to show for it..


I think Pat held it back because he really want to build via the draft..

[TXBRONC]

Going out and getting a high profile free agent like a Julius Peppers doesn't mean de-emphasize the draft.

Nor do I believe Bowlen necessarily put the kabosh on a big free agent signing. His mode of operation over the past 20 plus years has been is let his staff do their jobs.

[Dean]

Irregardless of whether the defensive scheme is a 3-4 or a 4-3, we have too many holes to come up with starters through the draft. If you wait 3 years until you have obtained quality peope and have given them time to develop, our offense may no longer be at the high level that it currently is. The problem with pinning all your hopes on just the draft is that until a team already has depth a team's personnel turn over so fast, now, that it makes long range planning sketchy at best.

I like a combination of free agents, trades, and draft picks each and every year.

[TXBRONC]

Irregardless of whether the defensive scheme is a 3-4 or a 4-3, we have too many holes to come up with starters through the draft. If you wait 3 years until you have obtained quality peope and have given them time to develop, our offense may no longer be at the high level that it currently is. The problem with pinning all your hopes on just the draft is that until a team already has depth a team's personnel turn over so fast, now, that it makes long range planning sketchy at best.

I like a combination of free agents, trades, and draft picks each and every year.

Bowlen is interested in winning, I don't think he has a problem with his staff doing what it takes to put a winning product on the field as fast as possible.

And considering how Bowlen has operated in the past I don't see him handcuffing McDaniels and the Goodman by telling they can ONLY build through the draft.

[Lonestar]

Irregardless of whether the defensive scheme is a 3-4 or a 4-3, we have too many holes to come up with starters through the draft. If you wait 3 years until you have obtained quality peope and have given them time to develop, our offense may no longer be at the high level that it currently is. The problem with pinning all your hopes on just the draft is that until a team already has depth a team's personnel turn over so fast, now, that it makes long range planning sketchy at best.

I like a combination of free agents, trades, and draft picks each and every year.


a reasonable post and thoughtful.. But there are FA and there are FREE AGENTS.. Pat has been burned for decades with lousy Fa choice and just one or two decent trades..

His approach last year was to build via the draft.. and I see it continuing this year .. We have drafted talent last year that may or may not fit in the scheme they want to get to 3-4 but they may be and most likely will play a hybrid between the two they want to move to and what they are stuck with personnel wise..

Perhaps I'm wrong in my assessment but as much as I think the ass clown coaches we had last year were the biggest issue.. I fail to believe that all of th defense has to be replaced this year in either Fa or the draft..

We do not have to expect all 7-8 players we get this year to step in and start.. as they most likely will not be wholesale cuts to the defense this year..

I'd guess they keep 8-10 of them and fill in with day one draft choices..

But since no one really knows what they can do we will all have to see. I see Pat taking the conservative approach..

[Simple Jaded]

Still do not see us making a huge splash here especially after the last few years fiasco's.. spending tons of money with nothing to show for it..


I think Pat held it back because he really want to build via the draft..

Well then I hope Doogie is renting, for the majority of the past decade this team couldn't draft to save their ass.......If it's true that Bowlen has turned Monfort on us, he can stick his annual "19-0" prediction where the sun don't shine, we gave him a new stadium for a reason and that reason wasn't to make him rich.

My gut feeling is that the Broncos do next to nothing in free agency, and I think it's because the owners are looking to roll back the salary cap in the next CBA.......

[Shazam!]

Denver got the Broncos' new stadium based on their Championships. If they didn't win them it never would have happened IMO.

[slim]

Out of that list of current players the author would keep Karl and Nate? WTF is that about?

LMFAO....at Haynesworth, Peppers and Vilma? Yeah, that's gonna happen.

[WARHORSE]

a reasonable post and thoughtful.. But there are FA and there are FREE AGENTS.. Pat has been burned for decades with lousy Fa choice and just one or two decent trades..

His approach last year was to build via the draft.. and I see it continuing this year .. We have drafted talent last year that may or may not fit in the scheme they want to get to 3-4 but they may be and most likely will play a hybrid between the two they want to move to and what they are stuck with personnel wise..

Perhaps I'm wrong in my assessment but as much as I think the ass clown coaches we had last year were the biggest issue.. I fail to believe that all of th defense has to be replaced this year in either Fa or the draft..

We do not have to expect all 7-8 players we get this year to step in and start.. as they most likely will not be wholesale cuts to the defense this year..

I'd guess they keep 8-10 of them and fill in with day one draft choices..

But since no one really knows what they can do we will all have to see. I see Pat taking the conservative approach..


I doubt it will be the conservative approach this year.

Its about winning this year for Pat.....not next year...or the next.
Hes not about to look stupid by firing Shanahan. As he intimated during his press conference in firing Shanny, Bowlen says HES THE BOSS AROUND HERE.........and no one else. And the buck stops on his desk.

As for how he likes Josh McDaniels......he says, 'Ask me next year'.

He has the cap space, and he is going to go after whomever Josh wants. Imo, if we do take a conservative approach, it wont be because of Bowlen, but because of McDaniels. Thats the New England style and way of doing things. No stars........just football players.

Now, if Bowlen says to McDaniels........I want to win THIS year, and want you to put the players in place to do so, regardless of the financial side.......then McDaniels Im sure will do so accordingly.


Though I agree we will build through the draft.........I also think we will be players in the FAgent market.

Cause thats Bowlens M.O.

[Dean]

I doubt it will be the conservative approach this year.

Its about winning this year for Pat.....not next year...or the next.
Hes not about to look stupid by firing Shanahan. As he intimated during his press conference in firing Shanny, Bowlen says HES THE BOSS AROUND HERE.........and no one else. And the buck stops on his desk.

As for how he likes Josh McDaniels......he says, 'Ask me next year'.

He has the cap space, and he is going to go after whomever Josh wants. Imo, if we do take a conservative approach, it wont be because of Bowlen, but because of McDaniels. Thats the New England style and way of doing things. No stars........just football players.

Now, if Bowlen says to McDaniels........I want to win THIS year, and want you to put the players in place to do so, regardless of the financial side.......then McDaniels Im sure will do so accordingly.


Though I agree we will build through the draft.........I also think we will be players in the FAgent market.

Cause thats Bowlens M.O.


Man, I sure hope that you are reading the crystal ball correctly. We have the offense, the cap room, but not the defensive starters (forget about depth) for eith a 3-4 or a 4-3. If the organization will loosen the purse strings, the team will be able to compete for the play-offs. Without them and looking at next year's schedule, it could be really ugly.

[Lonestar]

I doubt it will be the conservative approach this year.

Its about winning this year for Pat.....not next year...or the next.
Hes not about to look stupid by firing Shanahan. As he intimated during his press conference in firing Shanny, Bowlen says HES THE BOSS AROUND HERE.........and no one else. And the buck stops on his desk.

As for how he likes Josh McDaniels......he says, 'Ask me next year'.

He has the cap space, and he is going to go after whomever Josh wants. Imo, if we do take a conservative approach, it wont be because of Bowlen, but because of McDaniels. Thats the New England style and way of doing things. No stars........just football players.

Now, if Bowlen says to McDaniels........I want to win THIS year, and want you to put the players in place to do so, regardless of the financial side.......then McDaniels Im sure will do so accordingly.


Though I agree we will build through the draft.........I also think we will be players in the FAgent market.

Cause thats Bowlens M.O.

While it has been the Broncos MO I doubt that Pat liked blowing millions of dollars on retreads and never wheres..

I know he wants to win .. But the fan base in DEN is not going to revolt and stay home if they see progress being made..

I think there will be a couple of FA brought in but I doubt very seriously after the dollar cost averaging of those in the past have been looked at they will be TOP named ones..

I do not see peppers or anyone like him.. see more of what they got in NE a few oldies but goodies and then quality draft choices to fill in for them a couple of years from now..

PAT is not going to break his bank to put a Superbowl team out there this year.. IMHO

[Lonestar]

Man, I sure hope that you are reading the crystal ball correctly. We have the offense, the cap room, but not the defensive starters (forget about depth) for eith a 3-4 or a 4-3. If the organization will loosen the purse strings, the team will be able to compete for the play-offs. Without them and looking at next year's schedule, it could be really ugly.

When you were coaching did you have a budget?

There were shortfalls from time to time with the income correct?

That is what is happening right now in DEN.. in-fact nation wide.. everyone is tightening their belts..

Pat is not immune to this recession..

[WARHORSE]

While it has been the Broncos MO I doubt that Pat liked blowing millions of dollars on retreads and never wheres..

Yeah, especially when he signs the checks. Bowlen had every bit of a part of those signings as Shanahan did.

I know he wants to win .. But the fan base in DEN is not going to revolt and stay home if they see progress being made..

Thats the glory of the Broncos fans........they NEVER stay home. Sold out!

I think there will be a couple of FA brought in but I doubt very seriously after the dollar cost averaging of those in the past have been looked at they will be TOP named ones..

I agree. I too am one of those who thinks we will be playing the middle of the pack. Im thinking the top guy we sign will be someone like Karlos Dansby. BUT, I wouldnt be surprised at all if we signed a big name.

I do not see peppers or anyone like him.. see more of what they got in NE a few oldies but goodies and then quality draft choices to fill in for them a couple of years from now..

Once again, I agree. But we will be players not only in the draft, but FAgency as well.

PAT is not going to break his bank to put a Superbowl team out there this year.. IMHO

Ok, there I disagree. I think if Pat knew it would guarantee him a superbowl, he would break the bank in a heartbeat.........THIS year.

But there are no silver bullets in this game, and the best thing we got going for us is Pat Bowlen is a man who owns one of the top sports franchises in the entire world, and if he wants to generate cash.........he can do it in a heartbeat.

I just hope he doesnt go too far in being a Jerry Jones clone..........I dont think we're in danger of that, but I do know he knows who's the boss around here:

Quote from RMN

Bowlen said McDaniels will not report to Xanders but to Bowlen, and Xanders will report to Bowlen as well.
It puts Bowlen clearly at the top of the team's corporate flowchart,* with the coach clearly directing the team's coaching staff and on-field work with a general manager coordinating scouting and personnel.


*Where he has always been.

[Cugel]

According to the RMN, the Broncos currently have $11 million in cap space, not $31 million!

(http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/12/legwold-nfl-housecleaning-begins/)
When free agency begins Feb. 27, the Broncos and every other NFL team will have to be under the $123 million per-team salary cap. Also by league rules, only the top 51 salaries are counted to make that mark, and only those top 51 are counted until teams make their final cuts in training camp to head into the regular season, when all 53 players count.

Before the Broncos made their five cuts Wednesday, they were at $114,630,341 in salary-cap commitments to 63 players for 2009. After the cuts, they had a little more than $112 million in salary-cap commitments to 58 players.

A salary-cap total includes a player's base salary as well as accounting for the prorated portions of bonuses they have already received. So the Broncos are already under the salary cap, especially if they count only their top 51 players.

Now, the big news is that they can clear up $16 million in cap space by cutting or re-negotiating DeWayne Robertson's bloated salary!


Leading the way is defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson, whose bonus-heavy deal is set to count $16 million against the cap in '09 unless the Broncos redo it or release him. So most in the league believe he will not be on the roster under his current contract next month.

There's worse news: Look at this!



Balance sheet

The 18 players who are slated to count at least $1 million against the Broncos' salary cap in 2009. Figures include a player's base salary as well as the annual accounting for bonuses.
Pos. Player 2009 cap figure
DT Dewayne Robertson $16,000,000
CB Champ Bailey $13,668,525
LB D.J. Williams $11,634,500
CB Dre' Bly $6,800,000
TE Daniel Graham $6,650,000
G Ben Hamilton $4,484,000
LB Boss Bailey $3,855,000
WR Brandon Stokley $3,785,416
RB *Travis Henry $3,600,000
LB Niko Koutouvides $3,061,666
QB Jay Cutler $2,712,500
LB Jamie Winborn $2,250,000
DE John Engelberger $2,185,000
T Ryan Clady $2,141,250
DE Jarvis Moss $1,900,000
WR *Keary Colbert $1,666,667
C Casey Wiegmann $1,350,000
S Marquand Manuel $1,333,333

* Useless Chodes are highlighted in Yellow!

Reading this makes me REALLY GLAD Shanahan isn't still around screwing things up! If I did my job this badly, I'd be unemployed! Travis Henry is still going to count $3.1 million against the salary cap, while he awaits imprisonment on federal drug charges! Keary Colbert counts $1.6 million while he sits on the bench in Seattle? :tsk:


Travis Henry's mega-deal still stings, as does Colbert's. [Keary] Colbert was the first player the Broncos pursued and signed in free agency last year, and they certainly raised some eyebrows by giving a $2.5 million signing bonus to a receiver who had two touchdowns in 2004, 2005 and 2006 combined.

He didn't crack the Broncos' rotation in training camp and was traded to Seattle in September for a conditional pick that is now a fifth-rounder.

Koutouvides, too, was tabbed to be the team's middle linebacker by Shanahan's staff and, after an extensive video review, was given a three-year, $7.2 million contract that included a $2.5 million signing bonus.

His future with the team is certainly in doubt considering he lost out in the competition at middle linebacker in training camp, didn't crack the rotation when the Broncos had all three starters out of the lineup with injuries and was eventually moved to backup strong-side linebacker as the season closed out.

Time to dump the dead-wood! :tsk:

But, you can see that even if the Broncos dump DeWayne Robertson (and his $16 million cap-hit) they STILL will have $27 million in cap space, NOT $36 or $41 million as earlier reported.

That would place them around the middle of the pack, NOT at the top with teams like the Bucs and Cardinals and Titans (who are near the top almost every year -- which is why they will probably re-sign DT Albert Haynesworth). :coffee:

[Fan in Exile]

According to the RMN, the Broncos currently have $11 million in cap space, not $31 million!

(http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/12/legwold-nfl-housecleaning-begins/)

Now, the big news is that they can clear up $16 million in cap space by cutting or re-negotiating DeWayne Robertson's bloated salary!


There's worse news: Look at this!



* Useless Chodes are highlighted in Yellow!

Reading this makes me REALLY GLAD Shanahan isn't still around screwing things up! If I did my job this badly, I'd be unemployed! Travis Henry is still going to count $3.1 million against the salary cap, while he awaits imprisonment on federal drug charges! Keary Colbert counts $1.6 million while he sits on the bench in Seattle? :tsk:



Time to dump the dead-wood! :tsk:

But, you can see that even if the Broncos dump DeWayne Robertson (and his $16 million cap-hit) they STILL will have $27 million in cap space, NOT $36 or $41 million as earlier reported.

That would place them around the middle of the pack, NOT at the top with teams like the Bucs and Cardinals and Titans (who are near the top almost every year -- which is why they will probably re-sign DT Albert Haynesworth). :coffee:

There are a couple of things wrong with your post.

First the numbers you quote have 58 people when only 51 people count. So right off the bat they're wrong.

Second the 41 million that was reported was a story that counted the space they could clear up by dumping people it was never an actual cap figure. Although some posters did take it that way.

Third Colbert got us a fifth round pick so whether he's a disappointment or not isn't our problem we should be happy that Shanahan pulled that off.

Fourth let's see what the new coaches can do before we start calling people useless choads. If the new coaches think they can get something out of them then those of us on the outside should probably walk softly so we don't end up eating our words halfway through the season. If the coaches ditch them that's probably a sign then.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

And why not include Boss in the choad list?

[DenBronx]

cmon guys, there was at least 3 or 4 post with credible sources saying we have at least 34 mill in cap room. we are 3rd lowest in the nfl in cap space. i think the correct figure is 34 mill and subject to change post the nfl combine.

[Cugel]

There are a couple of things wrong with your post.

First the numbers you quote have 58 people when only 51 people count. So right off the bat they're wrong.

Yes, but the ones cited are the HIGHEST PAID! A bunch of scrubs making the league minimum won't add up to much, so not including THEIR salaries won't increase the cap size by very much.


Second the 41 million that was reported was a story that counted the space they could clear up by dumping people it was never an actual cap figure. Although some posters did take it that way.

This is not something wrong with my post. I said the actual number was NOT $41 million. So, your point simply confirms that.


Colbert got us a fifth round pick so whether he's a disappointment or not isn't our problem we should be happy that Shanahan pulled that off.

Not if it costs millions against the cap. It was still a horrible personnel move to pay someone a contract like that -- one that caused NFL GMs to shake their heads wondering what Shanny was doing -- and then have it immediately BLOW UP in his face!

He paid several million dollars to Keary Colbert and got nothing out of him. Then he shipped him off to Seattle for a 5th round pick. Great. But, it doesn't change the fact that he did a stupid thing that other GMs thought was stupid at the time and in fact turned out to be a mistake. :coffee:

It's rather like his picking Terry Pierce or Darius Watts in the 2nd round. He eventually shipped Watts off, but that doesn't change the fact that he should never have taken him in the first place -- and the rest of the league had a much better assessment of Watts' real talent than Shanny did.


Fourth let's see what the new coaches can do before we start calling people useless choads. If the new coaches think they can get something out of them then those of us on the outside should probably walk softly so we don't end up eating our words halfway through the season. If the coaches ditch them that's probably a sign then.

Did you watch last season? Or are you just some kind of homer who thinks you can make a chocolate Mousse cake out of a Moose turd?

Let's review the CHODE list shall we? :coffee:

GRAND CHODE #1: Travis Henry! Do I really need to argue this one? Travis Henry was cut after the 2006 seasons, so he's been gone for over a year. He's currently facing federal felony drug charges and will be spending the next few years in Club Fed! Meanwhile he's costing $3.6 million against this year's Salary cap? Fully worthy of the title FOOTBALL'S BIGGEST CHODE! (Even ignoring the 9 children by 9 different mothers and the child support orders, the multiple other felonies, etc.)

CHODE #2: DE John Engleberger. I have been calling on the Broncos to cut him for years. He's unable to rush the passer at all, and he's not strong against the run. He's starting and getting $2.2 million? John Engleberger as a starter is a very good example of WHY this defense sucks! I am encouraged by the thought that he will soon FINALLY be unemployed.

CHODE #3: WR Keary Colbert. He counts $1.6 million against Denver's cap while he sits on the Seahawks bench. I hope I needn't repeat myself.

CHODE #4: Marquand Manuel. Must I remind anybody of how absolutely ROTTEN Denver's safeties were last season? With the exception of Josh Barrett who was a rookie, every one of them must go and will go. The D-line was bad, but the safeties were even worse. This is universally acknowledged all over the league and in every sporting publication in case you missed every game last year.

CHODE #5: Niko Koutivides. After receiving a huge contract he was ultimately BENCHED and didn't play the final game of the season. This was for the worst defense in football.

If you think a new coaching staff can come in and miraculously get these guys to be good football players you're high. They suck. Bad.

Two of the cited CHODES are not even with the team.

That leaves CHODE #6: DeWayne Robertson.

Robertson essentially has NO CARTILAGE left in his knees. He was a top 10 draft pick for the Jets as a 4-3 DE, but the team shifted over to a 3-4. He hated it. The constant double-teams hurt his knees with their bone-on-bone condition. He wanted out to a team that was going to run a 4-3. He came here.

He was given a performance bonus laden contract. He's due a $4 million roster bonus in March and $16 million total for the season. Last year for the first time in his career he sat out games due to his knee injuries.

Like Courtney Brown before him, it's a question of how long he can go on playing with the knee bones grating together on each other every play. I personally would quit immediately and get knee replacement surgery. He was held out of practices and played somewhat sparingly in games. I amazed he's lasted as long as he has.

He may be back this year at a much reduced salary, but clearly he's on his way out. I'm betting he'll be retired by next year some time. :coffee:

Meanwhile, the Broncos have just fired the coaches and are now trying to change over to a 3-4 defense where DeWayne would ONCE AGAIN have to take on constant double-teams. He can't do that because his knees can't take the pounding. He doesn't want to do it. He doesn't fit in.

I see a parting of the ways soon for DeWayne Robertson & the Broncos.

[Lonestar]

Yes, but the ones cited are the HIGHEST PAID! A bunch of scrubs making the league minimum won't add up to much, so not including THEIR salaries won't increase the cap size by very much.



This is not something wrong with my post. I said the actual number was NOT $41 million. So, your point simply confirms that.



Not if it costs millions against the cap. It was still a horrible personnel move to pay someone a contract like that -- one that caused NFL GMs to shake their heads wondering what Shanny was doing -- and then have it immediately BLOW UP in his face!

He paid several million dollars to Keary Colbert and got nothing out of him. Then he shipped him off to Seattle for a 5th round pick. Great. But, it doesn't change the fact that he did a stupid thing that other GMs thought was stupid at the time and in fact turned out to be a mistake. :coffee:

It's rather like his picking Terry Pierce or Darius Watts in the 2nd round. He eventually shipped Watts off, but that doesn't change the fact that he should never have taken him in the first place -- and the rest of the league had a much better assessment of Watts' real talent than Shanny did.



Did you watch last season? Or are you just some kind of homer who thinks you can make a chocolate Mousse cake out of a Moose turd?

Let's review the CHODE list shall we? :coffee:

GRAND CHODE #1: Travis Henry! Do I really need to argue this one? Travis Henry was cut after the 2006 seasons, so he's been gone for over a year. He's currently facing federal felony drug charges and will be spending the next few years in Club Fed! Meanwhile he's costing $3.6 million against this year's Salary cap? Fully worthy of the title FOOTBALL'S BIGGEST CHODE! (Even ignoring the 9 children by 9 different mothers and the child support orders, the multiple other felonies, etc.)

CHODE #2: DE John Engleberger. I have been calling on the Broncos to cut him for years. He's unable to rush the passer at all, and he's not strong against the run. He's starting and getting $2.2 million? John Engleberger as a starter is a very good example of WHY this defense sucks! I am encouraged by the thought that he will soon FINALLY be unemployed.

CHODE #3: WR Keary Colbert. He counts $1.6 million against Denver's cap while he sits on the Seahawks bench. I hope I needn't repeat myself.

CHODE #4: Marquand Manuel. Must I remind anybody of how absolutely ROTTEN Denver's safeties were last season? With the exception of Josh Barrett who was a rookie, every one of them must go and will go. The D-line was bad, but the safeties were even worse. This is universally acknowledged all over the league and in every sporting publication in case you missed every game last year.

CHODE #5: Niko Koutivides. After receiving a huge contract he was ultimately BENCHED and didn't play the final game of the season. This was for the worst defense in football.

If you think a new coaching staff can come in and miraculously get these guys to be good football players you're high. They suck. Bad.

Two of the cited CHODES are not even with the team.

That leaves CHODE #6: DeWayne Robertson.

Robertson essentially has NO CARTILAGE left in his knees. He was a top 10 draft pick for the Jets as a 4-3 DE, but the team shifted over to a 3-4. He hated it. The constant double-teams hurt his knees with their bone-on-bone condition. He wanted out to a team that was going to run a 4-3. He came here.

He was given a performance bonus laden contract. He's due a $4 million roster bonus in March and $16 million total for the season. Last year for the first time in his career he sat out games due to his knee injuries.

Like Courtney Brown before him, it's a question of how long he can go on playing with the knee bones grating together on each other every play. I personally would quit immediately and get knee replacement surgery. He was held out of practices and played somewhat sparingly in games. I amazed he's lasted as long as he has.

He may be back this year at a much reduced salary, but clearly he's on his way out. I'm betting he'll be retired by next year some time. :coffee:

Meanwhile, the Broncos have just fired the coaches and are not trying to change over to a 3-4 defense where DeWayne would ONCE AGAIN have to take on constant double-teams. He can't do that because his knees can't take the pounding. He doesn't want to do it.

I see a parting of the ways soon for DeWayne Robertson & the Broncos.


you forgot a couple of his oldie FA chodes.. IHOP man, chris carters cousin,

and then his real great #1 flops nash, foster, delta, and how could I forget ashley..

and then allowing Berry, to get away and signing price to such a huge contract he needed cattle prodding 4-5 times a year to get his mind on football and out of his recording studio..

what a trip down memory lane..

[WARHORSE]

you forgot a couple of his oldie FA chodes.. IHOP man, chris carters cousin,

and then his real great #1 flops nash, foster, delta, and how could I forget ashley..

and then allowing Berry, to get away and signing price to such a huge contract he needed cattle prodding 4-5 times a year to get his mind on football and out of his recording studio..

what a trip down memory lane..



Bertrand Berry got away? lol.........

Who were some of the good ones?


Take yer time.............:coffee:

[WARHORSE]

a reasonable post and thoughtful.. But there are FA and there are FREE AGENTS.. Pat has been burned for decades with lousy Fa choice and just one or two decent trades..

His approach last year was to build via the draft.. and I see it continuing this year .. We have drafted talent last year that may or may not fit in the scheme they want to get to 3-4 but they may be and most likely will play a hybrid between the two they want to move to and what they are stuck with personnel wise..

Perhaps I'm wrong in my assessment but as much as I think the ass clown coaches we had last year were the biggest issue.. I fail to believe that all of th defense has to be replaced this year in either Fa or the draft..

We do not have to expect all 7-8 players we get this year to step in and start.. as they most likely will not be wholesale cuts to the defense this year..

I'd guess they keep 8-10 of them and fill in with day one draft choices..

But since no one really knows what they can do we will all have to see. I see Pat taking the conservative approach..


Was it his approach to sign Kotouvides, Colbert and the two M & M s?

Bowlen will bring players in from FAgency and the draft. Both will be used to the extent that the team deems wisest. McDaniels and Xanders will team with the scouting department and coaches, and will put together a plan of action. They will present it to Bowlen and then Bowlen will share his thoughts, sign the checks he wants to, and wont sign the ones he doesnt want to.

Lets hope our FAgent signings this year make a bigger impact than in years past.

Lets get guys from franchises that suck, and are eager for winning.

I know it wont happen, but I still think Asomugha is going to play his butt off for some team if he gets the chance to be a free agent...............fat chance though.

[broncosinindy]

Was it his approach to sign Kotouvides, Colbert and the two M & M s?

Bowlen will bring players in from FAgency and the draft. Both will be used to the extent that the team deems wisest. McDaniels and Xanders will team with the scouting department and coaches, and will put together a plan of action. They will present it to Bowlen and then Bowlen will share his thoughts, sign the checks he wants to, and wont sign the ones he doesnt want to.

Lets hope our FAgent signings this year make a bigger impact than in years past.

Lets get guys from franchises that suck, and are eager for winning.

I know it wont happen, but I still think Asomugha is going to play his butt off for some team if he gets the chance to be a free agent...............fat chance though.

IMHO if a free agent wants to win. At this juncture i dont see many guys coming in soley to win.

I think scrabble is going to get tagged. i read it on FF ill see if i can dig up the article.

[Lonestar]

Bertrand Berry got away? lol.........

Who were some of the good ones?


Take yer time.............:coffee:

Hayward was decent went on to better thing..

Regeaor was pretty good in INDY but of course mikey was so concerned with winning at all costs, after he drafted him and then did not play him for a couple of years and then traded him away.. then all those in front of him sucked directly there after..

he allowed a couple of CB to move on to OAK that were better that the aging vets in front of them.. Names escape me at the moment..

While winning is important developing promising players for the future is also something he failed at..

Not signing them the year they are supposed to become FA was one of mikeys cardinal failures IMHO..

[Lonestar]

Was it his approach to sign Kotouvides, Colbert and the two M & M s?

Bowlen will bring players in from FAgency and the draft. Both will be used to the extent that the team deems wisest. McDaniels and Xanders will team with the scouting department and coaches, and will put together a plan of action. They will present it to Bowlen and then Bowlen will share his thoughts, sign the checks he wants to, and wont sign the ones he doesnt want to.

Lets hope our FAgent signings this year make a bigger impact than in years past.

Lets get guys from franchises that suck, and are eager for winning.

I know it wont happen, but I still think Asomugha is going to play his butt off for some team if he gets the chance to be a free agent...............fat chance though.

Perhaps it was or (pardon the following mikey bash) Mikey trying to prove a point. ... do not allow me a free hand and lets see how that turns out...

Hell I do not know...

Just think of all the millions that we got stuck with in all the failed FA and trade pick ups mikey made.. each year we had 5-20 million in dead money which tied up our cap space.. Tis year will be something like 20 I think I saw in another thread 16 or so in gardener alone, Colbert and Niko the rest of it.

This does not include any of the other losers we are going to have to cut, that have signing bonus money still due.....

I still do not see DEN making a big splash in FA.. maybe a couple of solid performers that are on the down hill slope of their careers someone we can get 3-4 years out of much like they seem to do in NE.. each year while the rookies are being trained to take their places..

Yes Asomugha is a stud but he certainly will not be here unless we are able to trade Champ, Chump the brother and bly. and get out from under those contracts..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'd agree with JR that Denver allowed their best defensive lineman to get away. Berry and Hayward aren't Pro-Bowl players, but they were and IMHO are good lineman. Obviously, the approach of getting 4 or 5 Browns for the cost of Reggie Hayward didn't get us anywhere. Those guys weren't franchise players, but they were worth the money they received, outside injuries those guys have played pretty darn well with their respective teams. Not making excuses on their injuries (perhaps one of the reasons Denver didn't believe they needed to shell out that kind of money to them) either, just pointin' it out.

I think Denver would have done well to retain someone like Hayward as a veteran and build around him. Instead of their approach to getting rid of their best lineman (or not re-signing them) bringing in a bunch of turds, and for the most part ignoring drafting talent at the DL. (And when they did, they traded away picks for Jarvis Moss, who proved absolutely shit in college and had a laundry list of concerns, which was another epic **** up.)

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Who would you rather have?

Jarvis Moss or Paul Posluszny and a 3rd?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Did you even have to ask, bro? :D

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm still pissed about it.

[Cugel]

you forgot a couple of his oldie FA chodes.. IHOP man, chris carters cousin,

and then his real great #1 flops nash, foster, delta, and how could I forget ashley..

and then allowing Berry, to get away and signing price to such a huge contract he needed cattle prodding 4-5 times a year to get his mind on football and out of his recording studio..

what a trip down memory lane..

My point wasn't to review every mistake Shanahan has made JR, but only to point out that the players who count against the 2009 salary cap include a bunch of useless chodes! If you want to review every failed draft pick, that would be a WHOLE NEW THREAD.

If you threw in high priced FAs flops like Daryl Gardner, and Dale Carter you're really reaching into the past. I'm talking about the present here.

Aforesaid mentioned chodes include players as Travis Henry and Keary Colbert who aren't even on the roster, but who are taking up over $4 million in cap room, plus FA flops like Nikko Koutivides (who stories in the RMN point out was benched late last season and is expected to be cut), Boss Bailey, Marquand Manuel.

Note I did NOT include a COMPLETE CHODE list of all players who would be considered useless fish bait.

That list might well include Nate Webster, or 2nd round pick Tim Crowder for instance. We can't know yet, and he might suddenly find new life in the 3-4, but it sure looks like he'll be cut this off-season.

Also not included are scrubs like Josh Mallard or Kenny Peterson, neither of whom has done anything worth keeping them, and either of whom might also be cut.

This is because those players cost less than $1 million against the salary cap. So, if proven useless they can be cut without hinderance at any point. They're merely clogging up roster space, but aren't earning enough $ to worry about them.

[Cugel]

Who would you rather have?

Jarvis Moss or Paul Posluszny and a 3rd?

Please don't do that. We can all play the "who would you rather have than Jarvis Moss?" Game all winter.

And there are about 15 answers. And it won't help a bit. :rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

My point wasn't to review every mistake Shanahan has made JR, but only to point out that the players who count against the 2009 salary cap include a bunch of useless chodes! If you want to review every failed draft pick, that would be a WHOLE NEW THREAD.

If you threw in high priced FAs flops like Daryl Gardner, and Dale Carter you're really reaching into the past. I'm talking about the present here.

Aforesaid mentioned chodes include players as Travis Henry and Keary Colbert who aren't even on the roster, but who are taking up over $4 million in cap room, plus FA flops like Nikko Koutivides (who stories in the RMN point out was benched late last season and is expected to be cut), Boss Bailey, Marquand Manuel.

Note I did NOT include a COMPLETE CHODE list of all players who would be considered useless fish bait.

That list might well include Nate Webster, or 2nd round pick Tim Crowder for instance. We can't know yet, and he might suddenly find new life in the 3-4, but it sure looks like he'll be cut this off-season.

Also not included are scrubs like Josh Mallard or Kenny Peterson, neither of whom has done anything worth keeping them, and either of whom might also be cut.

This is because those players cost less than $1 million against the salary cap. So, if proven useless they can be cut without hinderance at any point. They're merely clogging up roster space, but aren't earning enough $ to worry about them.


sorry I misunderstood.. about it just being current salary cap clowns..

I guess I needed add the biggie mikey chodes. what this years clowns illustrates is he flat did not have his finger on the pulse while picking talent..
something changed at something in his tenure in DEN..

When it was I do not know, while he put the final touches on those SB teams, even back then none of the teams had killer instinct many of those wins in those years we had a huge lead and in some cases had to scrap at the last minute to hold on for a win..

Other than pouring it on OAK very few games were won going away..


keep up the great posting..

[Fan in Exile]

Yes, but the ones cited are the HIGHEST PAID! A bunch of scrubs making the league minimum won't add up to much, so not including THEIR salaries won't increase the cap size by very much.

This is not something wrong with my post. I said the actual number was NOT $41 million. So, your point simply confirms that.

The problem with your post is that you said it was reported that it was 41 million, which it never was. You rushed out to correct something that wasn't wrong.



Not if it costs millions against the cap. It was still a horrible personnel move to pay someone a contract like that -- one that caused NFL GMs to shake their heads wondering what Shanny was doing -- and then have it immediately BLOW UP in his face!

He paid several million dollars to Keary Colbert and got nothing out of him. Then he shipped him off to Seattle for a 5th round pick. Great. But, it doesn't change the fact that he did a stupid thing that other GMs thought was stupid at the time and in fact turned out to be a mistake. :coffee:

It's rather like his picking Terry Pierce or Darius Watts in the 2nd round. He eventually shipped Watts off, but that doesn't change the fact that he should never have taken him in the first place -- and the rest of the league had a much better assessment of Watts' real talent than Shanny did.

Look I get to some people 1.6 million seems like a lot of money, but in NFL terms it isn't that much. You are also blowing the contract way out of proportion. Seattle was not only willing to take it off our hands but also threw in a draft pick. We were desprate for a WR last offseason, no one expected Royal to produce the way he did. If Colbert has been te number two WR like they thought it would be a steal.




Did you watch last season? Or are you just some kind of homer who thinks you can make a chocolate Mousse cake out of a Moose turd?

Let's review the CHODE list shall we? :coffee:

GRAND CHODE #1: Travis Henry! Do I really need to argue this one? Travis Henry was cut after the 2006 seasons, so he's been gone for over a year. He's currently facing federal felony drug charges and will be spending the next few years in Club Fed! Meanwhile he's costing $3.6 million against this year's Salary cap? Fully worthy of the title FOOTBALL'S BIGGEST CHODE! (Even ignoring the 9 children by 9 different mothers and the child support orders, the multiple other felonies, etc.)

CHODE #2: DE John Engleberger. I have been calling on the Broncos to cut him for years. He's unable to rush the passer at all, and he's not strong against the run. He's starting and getting $2.2 million? John Engleberger as a starter is a very good example of WHY this defense sucks! I am encouraged by the thought that he will soon FINALLY be unemployed.

CHODE #3: WR Keary Colbert. He counts $1.6 million against Denver's cap while he sits on the Seahawks bench. I hope I needn't repeat myself.

CHODE #4: Marquand Manuel. Must I remind anybody of how absolutely ROTTEN Denver's safeties were last season? With the exception of Josh Barrett who was a rookie, every one of them must go and will go. The D-line was bad, but the safeties were even worse. This is universally acknowledged all over the league and in every sporting publication in case you missed every game last year.

CHODE #5: Niko Koutivides. After receiving a huge contract he was ultimately BENCHED and didn't play the final game of the season. This was for the worst defense in football.

If you think a new coaching staff can come in and miraculously get these guys to be good football players you're high. They suck. Bad.

Two of the cited CHODES are not even with the team.

I did watch the team last year that's why I also get that there were problems with the coaching as well, so I'm willing to be patient.

I also get that these guy have all done something we haven't, which is make an NFL team so we should probably be a little less harsh with them. I don't expect great things from Koutivides, but before I write him off I'm going to hope the new coaches can do something with him because that would be the best thing for the team.

Except for Travis Henry who is of course a total waste of flesh.


That leaves CHODE #6: DeWayne Robertson.

Robertson essentially has NO CARTILAGE left in his knees. He was a top 10 draft pick for the Jets as a 4-3 DE, but the team shifted over to a 3-4. He hated it. The constant double-teams hurt his knees with their bone-on-bone condition. He wanted out to a team that was going to run a 4-3. He came here.

He was given a performance bonus laden contract. He's due a $4 million roster bonus in March and $16 million total for the season. Last year for the first time in his career he sat out games due to his knee injuries.

Like Courtney Brown before him, it's a question of how long he can go on playing with the knee bones grating together on each other every play. I personally would quit immediately and get knee replacement surgery. He was held out of practices and played somewhat sparingly in games. I amazed he's lasted as long as he has.

He may be back this year at a much reduced salary, but clearly he's on his way out. I'm betting he'll be retired by next year some time. :coffee:

Meanwhile, the Broncos have just fired the coaches and are now trying to change over to a 3-4 defense where DeWayne would ONCE AGAIN have to take on constant double-teams. He can't do that because his knees can't take the pounding. He doesn't want to do it. He doesn't fit in.

I see a parting of the ways soon for DeWayne Robertson & the Broncos.

Something that's good to keep in mind here is that the Rocky Mountain News got his contract wrong. He didn't earn his 16 million dollar roster bonus, because he didn't take enough snaps. He was a gamble, but his contract was written in such a way that if it didn't pay off he could get cut. We are a long way from cap hell or any other kind of problems.

Draftsharks.com ranks us third over all in cap space. 3. Denver -- $34m under – New coach Josh McDaniels has needs everywhere, primarily on defense. This unit could see a massive slash-fest that frees up another $15m or so, giving them near $50m to spend! S Marlon McCree, S Marquand Manuel, LB Nate Webster, LB Boss Bailey, DE Ebenezer Ekuban, & DT Dewayne Robertson are just 6 of maybe 10-12 defense cap-cuts. McDaniels won’t leave offense off his wish list since he’s holding a platinum credit card. Free-agent RB Derrick Ward is a perfect fit. They have 2 great WRs in Brandon Marshall & Eddie Royal, but what about adding WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh? McDaniels witnessed T.J. burning New England for 26 catches, 340 yards and 1 TD in the last 3 meetings.

The difference is that the RMN got Robertson's figure wrong they also left out about 4 million in LTBE incentives that weren't actually earned. So we should be in good shape.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Please don't do that. We can all play the "who would you rather have than Jarvis Moss?" Game all winter.

And there are about 15 answers. And it won't help a bit. :rolleyes:

I'll continue to do it and you can continue to roll your eyes. k?

[WARHORSE]

Hayward was decent went on to better thing..

Regeaor was pretty good in INDY but of course mikey was so concerned with winning at all costs, after he drafted him and then did not play him for a couple of years and then traded him away.. then all those in front of him sucked directly there after..

he allowed a couple of CB to move on to OAK that were better that the aging vets in front of them.. Names escape me at the moment..

While winning is important developing promising players for the future is also something he failed at..

Not signing them the year they are supposed to become FA was one of mikeys cardinal failures IMHO..

Reagor played next to whom? Dwight Freeney.

Think that had an effect on him? Besides, Reagor was nothing of note when he played for us. A good decent tackle, nothing more. Same thing he was in Indy.


Heyward? What do you t hink they think about him in Jacksonville? By better thing you mean he got paid for nothing of note.


Dont forget to look for the good.

You can do it if you look hard enough.

[WARHORSE]

I'd agree with JR that Denver allowed their best defensive lineman to get away. Berry and Hayward aren't Pro-Bowl players, but they were and IMHO are good lineman. Obviously, the approach of getting 4 or 5 Browns for the cost of Reggie Hayward didn't get us anywhere. Those guys weren't franchise players, but they were worth the money they received, outside injuries those guys have played pretty darn well with their respective teams. Not making excuses on their injuries (perhaps one of the reasons Denver didn't believe they needed to shell out that kind of money to them) either, just pointin' it out.

I think Denver would have done well to retain someone like Hayward as a veteran and build around him. Instead of their approach to getting rid of their best lineman (or not re-signing them) bringing in a bunch of turds, and for the most part ignoring drafting talent at the DL. (And when they did, they traded away picks for Jarvis Moss, who proved absolutely shit in college and had a laundry list of concerns, which was another epic **** up.)


Hayward sucked in Jacksonville. Never did a thing.

Bertrand had ONE decent season..........his last........here in Denver, and it was the Broncos that brought his career to what it is today by giving him a chance at DE, when he got booted from the league as a LBer.
He had one double digit sack total in his whole career, and it was in his contract year with us after being booted, and he wanted to get paid. He had 14.5 sacks the next year, and was a bench warmer on the injury list for most of the rest of the time there. Just a lesson in frustration.

As for Moss not proving anything in college or ignoring the drafting talent at DL........perhaps you can tell us who we should have drafted?

Fact is, you cant draft talent that isnt there, and as for Moss, count me as one of the guys who still thinks he can be a good player.

[broncosinindy]

I'd agree with JR that Denver allowed their best defensive lineman to get away. Berry and Hayward aren't Pro-Bowl players, but they were and IMHO are good lineman. Obviously, the approach of getting 4 or 5 Browns for the cost of Reggie Hayward didn't get us anywhere. Those guys weren't franchise players, but they were worth the money they received, outside injuries those guys have played pretty darn well with their respective teams. Not making excuses on their injuries (perhaps one of the reasons Denver didn't believe they needed to shell out that kind of money to them) either, just pointin' it out.

I think Denver would have done well to retain someone like Hayward as a veteran and build around him. Instead of their approach to getting rid of their best lineman (or not re-signing them) bringing in a bunch of turds, and for the most part ignoring drafting talent at the DL. (And when they did, they traded away picks for Jarvis Moss, who proved absolutely shit in college and had a laundry list of concerns, which was another epic **** up.)

hey dream go look at heywards production after he left this team and tell me he is worth the money he got. Pryce 10 million owed and not likeing denver much no more wont restructure. as much as i loved pryce his head wasnt in the game and it was a sound move. also look at his production since he left. then report back

[DenBronx]

well i guess this thread finally makes sense.