Don't Drink the Koolaid!

[Bullgator]

Tim has been painted as a horribly inaccurate and inept passer. He has not helped his cause with his passing % But don't for 1 second believe that this is who Tim is.

Tim is indeed accurate. Or at least he was until they ****** with his motion. The point is he needs TIME and REPS and an OFFSEASON to get around 60%.. WHICH HE WILL DO! But not this year. It is enough that hes gifted enough that we can win despite his passing game not being fully ready. We are indeed lucky, you dont get to win during growing pains normally.

All you guys who have talked yourself into thinking that Tim is doomed as a passer will get to see a taste against the Jets.

With our 55 rushes last week and the jets limited time to scheme this week they will simply have to play man2man corners and stack 9 in the box to stop the run.

Daring Tebow to throw.

But simply stacking the box against the run is COMPLETELY different than blitzing a 9 wide Defense.

You see you beat 9 wide blitz packages with the read option... you recognize the gaps and make a read away from the blitz or upfeild to the blitz, what have you.

To stop the read option you need to have great corners to go man 2 man and free up your safeties to stack the box. You stack the box and WAIT for the read to develop and smother ALL the gaps. You cant really blitz the read option.

Well what does this mean?? It means that Tebow will get to throw off of play action pass and have time to throw with no blitz in his face. With some time he will make some good throws.

Look for Tebow to throw between 15-18 times and end up with over 200 yards passing and at LEAST 2 passing TDs. Look for Daniel Fells to have a HUGE day. Tebow could surpass even what I am predicting here.

WIth TIME, REPS and an OFFSEASON I think Tim can be as good a passer as he wants. Hes just not there yet.

BTW Take a look at this.. this is worth reading.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/kerry_byrne/03/22/tim.tebow/index.html

[Clipworthy]

If Denver can continue to run well.... who cares about passing a lot?

[nflfan]

The Broncos organization isn't giving any koolaid right now. Their stance is that they play Tebow and see how it goes. Fox, himself, is committed to really tailoring the offense to Tebow's strengths and hiding his weaknesses.

Elway's probably thinking, if this goes by way of the wildcat, they'd rather find out sooner than later.

[MOtorboat]

What's a "nine wide" defense?

[UnderArmour]

What's a "nine wide" defense?

He's referring to the alignment of OLBs/DEs in the "9" hole of the line of scrimmage. Between Guard and Center is 2 and 3, Guard and tackle is 4 and 5, Tackle and TE is 6 and 7, outside the TE is 8 and 9. So the wide 9 look is when a DE/OLB is lined up way outside of an offensive tackle. He's saying you run option when that player abandons run duties to rush the passer, which in today's NFL defensive players just get paid to go hit the quarterback so there are match up issues with the option.

What teams are more likely to do with us now though is actually have that backer keep contain instead of pass rushing Tebow. Ryan is going to dare Tebow to throw and probably isn't going to blitz him very much with his OLBs who are needed to play contain to stop the Broncos running attack.

[MOtorboat]

He's referring to the alignment of OLBs/DEs in the "9" hole of the line of scrimmage. Between Guard and Center is 2 and 3, Guard and tackle is 4 and 5, Tackle and TE is 6 and 7, outside the TE is 8 and 9. So the wide 9 look is when a DE/OLB is lined up way outside of an offensive tackle. He's saying you run option when that player abandons run duties to rush the passer, which in today's NFL defensive players just get paid to go hit the quarterback so there are match up issues with the option.

What teams are more likely to do with us now though is actually have that backer keep contain instead of pass rushing Tebow. Ryan is going to dare Tebow to throw and probably isn't going to blitz him very much with his OLBs who are needed to play contain to stop the Broncos running attack.

I wondered. The Jets don't run that defense though. Neither did the Chiefs, the Raiders or the Dolphins.

:whoknows:

[chazoe60]

........at Jim Jones' house.

[BroncoNut]

who's really been drinking the KoolAid? Good Lord Bull.

[UnderArmour]

I wondered. The Jets don't run that defense though. Neither did the Chiefs, the Raiders or the Dolphins.

:whoknows:

I think he was just talking about the blitz package where an OLB will come down close to the line of scrimmage to be the "read" player. We did force Tamba Hali into this position and with pass rushing OLBs in a 3-4, they kind of just set themselves into being a wide 9 read when they ignore edge setting responsibility. You are right though, Only the Eagles run heavy doses of wide 9 in base look but that's why they are 3-6.

[atwater27]

:welcome:
Tim has been painted as a horribly inaccurate and inept passer. He has not helped his cause with his passing % But don't for 1 second believe that this is who Tim is.

Tim is indeed accurate. Or at least he was until they ****** with his motion. The point is he needs TIME and REPS and an OFFSEASON to get around 60%.. WHICH HE WILL DO! But not this year. It is enough that hes gifted enough that we can win despite his passing game not being fully ready. We are indeed lucky, you dont get to win during growing pains normally.

All you guys who have talked yourself into thinking that Tim is doomed as a passer will get to see a taste against the Jets.

With our 55 rushes last week and the jets limited time to scheme this week they will simply have to play man2man corners and stack 9 in the box to stop the run.

Daring Tebow to throw.

But simply stacking the box against the run is COMPLETELY different than blitzing a 9 wide Defense.

You see you beat 9 wide blitz packages with the read option... you recognize the gaps and make a read away from the blitz or upfeild to the blitz, what have you.

To stop the read option you need to have great corners to go man 2 man and free up your safeties to stack the box. You stack the box and WAIT for the read to develop and smother ALL the gaps. You cant really blitz the read option.

Well what does this mean?? It means that Tebow will get to throw off of play action pass and have time to throw with no blitz in his face. With some time he will make some good throws.

Look for Tebow to throw between 15-18 times and end up with over 200 yards passing and at LEAST 2 passing TDs. Look for Daniel Fells to have a HUGE day. Tebow could surpass even what I am predicting here.

WIth TIME, REPS and an OFFSEASON I think Tim can be as good a passer as he wants. Hes just not there yet.

BTW Take a look at this.. this is worth reading.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/kerry_byrne/03/22/tim.tebow/index.html

Bull.... You do realize that through training camp, preseason practice and all through this season practices, Denver's coaches have seen Tebow and how he plays, right? If you understand that concept than you understand that what they see in practice against our own defense determines who they use and what results you will get with them. There is a reason your boy is not throwing the ball that goes beyond him sucking as a passer in games. It's that he sucks just as bad in practice. Deal with it. Tebow will be exposed like he has never been exposed vs the Jets. Then we can all have a cry and move on.

[elwayisgod]

Who wants to watch this HS offense anyways???? Thats exactly what it is and it will never get a playoff win!!!!

[Mike]

I totally hate it when we win. Screw that crap.

[BroncoStud]

Tebow is a poor passer by NFL standards. But the way Fox is using him gives Denver the best chance to beat teams so it's working. For some reason Tebow throws a really nice deep ball.

[SR]

If you think Tebow is going to be successful throwing with Cromartie and Revis on the corners, I want some of what you're on.

[jlarsiii]

Tebow is a poor passer by NFL standards. But the way Fox is using him gives Denver the best chance to beat teams so it's working. For some reason Tebow throws a really nice deep ball.

Sometimes he throws a decent deep ball. Of the three deep throws that I can recall from the chiefs game two were very under-thrown to wide open receivers. He isn't as inaccurate as his short throws, but it leaves much to be desired...

And to the OP, I have no faith that he will improve as a passer. He reverts to his old mechanics during games and it doesn't help at all...

[G_Money]

Tebow is a poor passer by NFL standards. But the way Fox is using him gives Denver the best chance to beat teams so it's working. For some reason Tebow throws a really nice deep ball.

It's like having Tony Banks as QB, if he ran for 80 yards a game and was never given a chance to throw drive-killing INTs.

~G

[G_Money]

If you think Tebow is going to be successful throwing with Cromartie and Revis on the corners, I want some of what you're on.

I don't think it's a law that he has to throw it to his wides. RB, slot receiver, TE. If he's throwing the ball in this game, that better be where he's throwing it.

Which means it won't be those deep rainbow passes, I assume. Not unless Eddie Royal ditches his coverage, anyway.

~G

[Trailer Park Casanova]

If you think Tebow is going to be successful throwing with Cromartie and Revis on the corners, I want some of what you're on.

Grey Goose and OJ.

I think they'll pull it off.
Something about this set-up is bringing out the best in everybody.
No independent contractors,, they're playing as a team.

I have unshakable faith in them,, but then again,, take into account I'm a Cubs fan too.

Broncs may be playing ugly, but they ain't playing stupid.

[BORDERLINE]

With the way FOX and Co have Tebow running this offense there will be more questions then answers at the end of the year.

As long as we are winning I could give a F*$#....

[wayninja]

Seems like it's impossible to have a middle of the road opinion. Either he is WAY better than his stats indicate or his stats for 6 NFL games nullify years of previous play. Somehow it can't be somewhere in between.

Either it's impossible that he will get any better, or he is already the best QB that has ever lived and there's some reason he hasn't shown it yet.

[T.K.O.]

Tebow will throw the rock for 200+ yds and 2-3 td's tonight....
gonna switch it up at 1/2 time and come out firing !!!!!:salute:

[vhatever]

Seems like it's impossible to have a middle of the road opinion. Either he is WAY better than his stats indicate or his stats for 6 NFL games nullify years of previous play. Somehow it can't be somewhere in between.

Either it's impossible that he will get any better, or he is already the best QB that has ever lived and there's some reason he hasn't shown it yet.

You make it sound like his NFL stats are horrible or something. For a QB still essentially rookie playing on a team that has significant weaknesses in every aspect of it his stats are very good.

[wayninja]

You make it sound like his NFL stats are horrible or something. For a QB still essentially rookie playing on a team that has significant weaknesses in every aspect of it his stats are very good.

Thank you for proving my point.

[catfish]

Thank you for proving my point.

I think he is an above average runner, with a thus far below average accuracy as a passer. I don't think arm strength is an issue, and I feel so far he has been slowly progressing as a passer....middle of the road enough?

[wayninja]

I think he is an above average runner, with a thus far below average accuracy as a passer. I don't think arm strength is an issue, and I feel so far he has been slowly progressing as a passer....middle of the road enough?

Sure, but that just feels forced. Don't go all moderate on my account, the extremes are way more entertaining.

[vhatever]

Thank you for proving my point.

What point, exactly? Were you referring to people's perspective of tebow regardless of the stats or his actual real stats s a rookie?

[catfish]

Sure, but that just feels forced. Don't go all moderate on my account, the extremes are way more entertaining.

but being moderate is considered extreme by both sides so really I am twice as extreme as anyone else....winning!

[BroncoStud]

Sometimes he throws a decent deep ball. Of the three deep throws that I can recall from the chiefs game two were very under-thrown to wide open receivers. He isn't as inaccurate as his short throws, but it leaves much to be desired...

And to the OP, I have no faith that he will improve as a passer. He reverts to his old mechanics during games and it doesn't help at all...

The post to Decker was fine, the DB made a play on the ball, it was a very solid pass. The TD to Decker was perfect. The deep sideline to Royal wasn't a bad pass at all, he just threw it up and tried to let Eddie make the play. The only bad deep pass I saw was the one to Decker in the endzone.

I sat very close to the field and 3/4 were pretty solid throws. I don't question his ability to go deep, it's the 15 and under that worry me. He will improve with a full offseason.

[TXBRONC]

It's not Kool-aid it's fact. Tebow is not an accurate passer. The Broncos fans here that support Tebow myself included know he's erratic as passer. It doesn't mean he can't improve but the reality is Tebow's accuracy hasn't been very good.

It's also inaccuracy to say that the coaches screwed his throwing motion. First of all before he was even drafted he worked on trying to clean up his throwing motion. Bull I'm surprised you didn't know that given the fact you follow him so closely. Also last year Tebow threw better than he is this year still not quite good enough better than this year. Why is that? Last year he had an off season to work with same coaching staff that you criticized. This year he didn't. It was thought that the lock out would hurt Tebow more than anyone else. I think that's been spot on.

I agree Fells needs to have a big night. Will he? That remains to be seen. Fells is a good tight end but not elite. That said, if the tight end is going to be a focal point of the offense tonight it's incumbent upon Tebow to get the ball to him accurately on a consistent basis.

[TXBRONC]

The post to Decker was fine, the DB made a play on the ball, it was a very solid pass. The TD to Decker was perfect. The deep sideline to Royal wasn't a bad pass at all, he just threw it up and tried to let Eddie make the play. The only bad deep pass I saw was the one to Decker in the endzone.

I sat very close to the field and 3/4 were pretty solid throws. I don't question his ability to go deep, it's the 15 and under that worry me. He will improve with a full offseason.

The first pass to Decker in last week was not a good pass. Decker had to wait on the ball and it gave the defensive back time to catch up to him. Also the second pass to Decker wasn't all that great and it to allowed the defensive to make a play. The one to Royal like you wasn't very good. He also had short pass to Fells in the flat that he short armed. Even if I were to concede that one of the deep throws to Decker was just a great play by the defensive back you would still find that about half his throws were not all that good.

What maddening about Tebow is that he can one pass that makes him look like he doesn't belong in the NFL and then all of sudden makes a beautiful big league like he did to Decker.

[vhatever]

It's not Kool-aid it's fact. Tebow is not an accurate passer. The Broncos fans here that support Tebow myself included know he's erratic as passer. It doesn't mean he can't improve but the reality is Tebow's accuracy hasn't been very good.

It's also inaccuracy to say that the coaches screwed his throwing motion. First of all before he was even drafted he worked on trying to clean up his throwing motion. Bull I'm surprised you didn't know that given the fact you follow him so closely. Also last year Tebow threw better than he is this year still not quite good enough better than this year. Why is that? Last year he had an off season to work with same coaching staff that you criticized. This year he didn't. It was thought that the lock out would hurt Tebow more than anyone else. I think that's been spot on.

I agree Fells needs to have a big night. Will he? That remains to be seen. Fells is a good tight end but not elite. That said, if the tight end is going to be a focal point of the offense tonight it's incumbent upon Tebow to get the ball to him accurately on a consistent basis.

The average rookie completion percentage in the NFL is a bit under 50%. Tebow is above that, but not by much. So he's fine there. The average rookie QB's passer rating is about 65, while tebow is over 80. so he's much better as a passer than your typical rookie QB.

[wayninja]

What point, exactly? Were you referring to people's perspective of tebow regardless of the stats or his actual real stats s a rookie?

You know what point. Quit playing dumb.

[vhatever]

You know what point. Quit playing dumb.

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about, honestly. Your posts have been cryptic at best.

[Bullgator]

There are many factors that contribute to Tim's inaccuracy. The revision of his motion is not complete. He Threw better last year because he had the coaches in the offseason. He regressed this year because he did not. Hes been throwing one way his whole life.. and now his motion is a cocktail of old and new and is a bit unreliable. He needs a year to square away his issues and he will be a 60%+ NFL passer... But he needs time.

When he improves his passing game he is going to be very very dangerous in this league. Meanwhile be happy that we are lucky enough to win with is other qualities in the meantime.

Broncos 27 Jets 16 Go Broncos.

[wayninja]

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about, honestly. Your posts have been cryptic at best.

Oh, have they? Conversely, your posts have all been very specific. Specifically proving my point. So either stop playing dumb or being dumb.

If you truly think you aren't a Tebow homer and that your views on him are 'moderate', There is no sense in us talking about it.

[TXBRONC]

The average rookie completion percentage in the NFL is a bit under 50%. Tebow is above that, but not by much. So he's fine there. The average rookie QB's passer rating is about 65, while tebow is over 80. so he's much better as a passer than your typical rookie QB.

First of all he's not a rookie.

Second, being a bit under 50% is not good.

Third the qb passer rating is bullshit. Completing just 25% of your passes for game for under 100 yards yet your qbr of is above 100 for the game show what a farce that rating is. So no he's not better than your typical rookie quaterback. Again he's not a rookie.

[Northman]

The average rookie completion percentage in the NFL is a bit under 50%.

Not entirely true. Both Dalton and Newton are well above 50%.

Andy Dalton- 60.3
http://www.nfl.com/player/andydalton/2495143/profile

Cam Newton- 60.2
http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/profile



As for Ponder, Gabbert, and Tebow:

Christian Ponder- 50.5
http://www.nfl.com/player/christianponder/2495215/profile

Blaine Gabbert- 47.9
http://www.nfl.com/player/blainegabbert/2495441/profile

and

Tim Tebow- 47.1
http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/profile



Tebow is above that, but not by much. So he's fine there.Uh, no he's not. Look above. In fact, even if you just went by this year alone he is actually worse than last year as he would have a 44.8 completion percentage.


The average rookie QB's passer rating is about 65, while tebow is over 80. so he's much better as a passer than your typical rookie QB.Incorrect again, the average is not 65. And Tim doesnt have the better passer rating compared to Newton or Dalton.

Newton- 84.0
Dalton- 82.6
Tebow- 81.8
Ponder- 69.8
Gabbert-63.6

[Softskull]

The average rookie completion percentage in the NFL is a bit under 50%. Tebow is above that, but not by much. So he's fine there. The average rookie QB's passer rating is about 65, while tebow is over 80. so he's much better as a passer than your typical rookie QB.

Using the true rookie QBs with any significant playing time (Dalton, Newton, Ponder and Gabbert) their average for completion percentage this year is 54.72%.

But Tebow isn't a rookie so comparing him with true second year QBs (Skelton, McCoy, and Bradford) their completion percentage this year is 56.2%. Tebow's competion percent this year is 44.8%. That's no where near the averages. That's gawdawful.

[vhatever]

Not entirely true. Both Dalton and Newton are well above 50%.

Andy Dalton- 60.3
http://www.nfl.com/player/andydalton/2495143/profile

Cam Newton- 60.2
http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/profile



As for Ponder, Gabbert, and Tebow:

Christian Ponder- 50.5
http://www.nfl.com/player/christianponder/2495215/profile

Blaine Gabbert- 47.9
http://www.nfl.com/player/blainegabbert/2495441/profile

and

Tim Tebow- 47.1
http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/profile


Uh, no he's not. Look above. In fact, even if you just went by this year alone he is actually worse than last year as he would have a 44.8 completion percentage.

Incorrect again, the average is not 65. And Tim doesnt have the better passer rating compared to Newton or Dalton.

Newton- 84.0
Dalton- 82.6
Tebow- 81.8
Ponder- 69.8
Gabbert-63.6

My numbers are from rookie QBs in the last decade or so, not this year. This year isn't over, for one, and for two it's the best rookie QB class in NFL history. Not exactly a fair comparison. and he is still a rookie in any honest person's eyes. He only had 3 starts last season and this pre-season was an OTA-less abortion. Try looking at ALL his starts, not just this season.

[Northman]

Using the true rookie QBs with any significant playing time (Dalton, Newton, Ponder and Gabbert) their average for completion percentage this year is 54.72%.

But Tebow isn't a rookie so comparing him with true second year QBs (Skelton, McCoy, and Bradford) their completion percentage this year is 56.2%. Tebow's competion percent this year is 44.8%. That's no where near the averages. That's gawdawful.


Good point Softy. I was still considering Tebow a rookie but in reality he is not. So technically, he should be well ahead of the other 4 guys because of his experience on the bench.

[Northman]

and for two it's the best rookie QB class in NFL history. Not exactly a fair comparison.

So this QB class is better to you than 83' with guys like Elway, Marino, Kelly? Really? Interesting.


Try looking at ALL his starts, not just this season.

I did numbnuts. He has a 47.1 completion percentage. Did you bother to look at the link or just keep talking nonsense out of your ass?

[Softskull]

Good point Softy. I was still considering Tebow a rookie but in reality he is not. So technically, he should be well ahead of the other 4 guys because of his experience on the bench.

Yep. He got a ton of work under McD as a special project. That has to count. You also have to consider that the rookies all had the very short camp too.

[wayninja]

He only had 3 starts last season and this pre-season was an OTA-less abortion. Try looking at ALL his starts, not just this season.

So... only Tebow went without the benefit of OTA's this offseason?

[Northman]

So... only Tebow went without the benefit of OTA's this offseason?

Apparently. :lol:

[Softskull]

So this QB class is better to you than 83' with guys like Elway, Marino, Kelly? Really? Interesting.



I did numbnuts. He has a 47.1 completion percentage. Did you bother to look at the link or just keep talking nonsense out of your ass?

If you use his criteria, all of the rookies and second year guys are doing exceptionally well here...actually much better than Tebow.

Don't get me wrong. I want the kid to succeed but the numbers "is what they is".

[vhatever]

So this QB class is better to you than 83' with guys like Elway, Marino, Kelly? Really? Interesting.



I did numbnuts. He has a 47.1 completion percentage. Did you bother to look at the link or just keep talking nonsense out of your ass?

Statistically this is the best QB class in NFL hsitory.

Do you want me to break out elway's "awesome" QB stats his rookie year? Quit tryng to twist things. Those guys turned into great QBs, but they were not great rookie QBs.

[TT15Superman]

1. It's not his motion, it's his feet that are causing the inconsistency and inaccuracy. Just like any sport that requires consistency, your feet/alignment are the core (golf, tennis, baseball). As others have mentioned, his feet are awful to good...and thus so are his throws.

2. You can say Tebow is not as good as other rooks/2nd year QBs in terms of comp%, but you cannot deny that he excels with TD/turnovers and is (so far) good with W-L.

[wayninja]

Statistically this is the best QB class in NFL hsitory.

Do you want me to break out elway's "awesome" QB stats his rookie year? Quit tryng to twist things. Those guys turned into great QBs, but they were not great rookie QBs.

You are right about the rookie class, but you are the one trying to 'twist' Tebow as being a part of it. He's not.

He was last years class, move on.

[vhatever]

You are right about the rookie class, but you are the one trying to 'twist' Tebow as being a part of it. He's not.

He was last years class, move on.

Ya, real fair analysis there. Real moderate. ROFLMAO. Whatever. Tebow wasn't even taking snaps with the first team this season, and sat out nearly all of last. People unwilling to admit he is still essentially in his rookie season, aren't worth wasting my time. An entire coaching change surely didn't help matters either, with two entirely different approaches to football.

[Softskull]

2. You can say Tebow is not as good as other rooks/2nd year QBs in terms of comp%, but you cannot deny that he excels with TD/turnovers and is (so far) good with W-L.

I agree with you here TT. This is exactly why I haven't given up on the kid. But I (and EFX) are still in the "show me whatcha got" phase. The reality is, whatever the reason for his low percentage rate, it needs to improve drastically.

[Northman]

Statistically this is the best QB class in NFL hsitory.

Do you want me to break out elway's "awesome" QB stats his rookie year? Quit tryng to twist things. Those guys turned into great QBs, but they were not great rookie QBs.

Im not twisting anything. In fact, your the one going off the reservation. You said that this was the best QB class in history. Im not sure what Elway's rookies numbers had to do with the anticipation of the 83' QB class which is one of the best in NFL history. Can you please show me a link to back up that statement about this year being the best QB class in history? I would love to read it.

[Northman]

2. You can say Tebow is not as good as other rooks/2nd year QBs in terms of comp%, but you cannot deny that he excels with TD/turnovers and is (so far) good with W-L.

This is all true, however that isnt the point of discussion here.

[TXBRONC]

If you use his criteria, all of the rookies and second year guys are doing exceptionally well here...actually much better than Tebow.

Don't get me wrong. I want the kid to succeed but the numbers "is what they is".

I think most of the Bronco fans on this board want Tebow to succeed but misstating the truth is going to change the reality of where the kid is at.

[T.K.O.]

it's all part of the plan to fool opponents....Tebow wont unleash the fury of his passing skills until it looks like we might lose:elefant:
actually I'm partially serious:salute:\
we kind of have opposing D's in a catch 22,they HAVE to respect the running game at this point and that leaves them open to some big passing plays.
Now if Tebow starts to get some timing and chemistry with his recievers.....could be a lot of FUN !!!!!!:elefant::beer:

[TXBRONC]

it's all part of the plan to fool opponents....Tebow wont unleash the fury of his passing skills until it looks like we might lose:elefant:
actually I'm partially serious:salute:\
we kind of have opposing D's in a catch 22,they HAVE to respect the running game at this point and that leaves them open to some big passing plays.
Now if Tebow starts to get some timing and chemistry with his recievers.....could be a lot of FUN !!!!!!:elefant::beer:

There is no catch 22 if he can't be more accurate on a consistent basis.

[T.K.O.]

There is no catch 22 if he can't be more accurate on a consistent basis.

yeah, that's why i said IF he gets some chemistry and timing goin':beer:

[wayninja]

Ya, real fair analysis there. Real moderate. ROFLMAO. Whatever. Tebow wasn't even taking snaps with the first team this season, and sat out nearly all of last. People unwilling to admit he is still essentially in his rookie season, aren't worth wasting my time. An entire coaching change surely didn't help matters either, with two entirely different approaches to football.

It's the same criteria that all would be judged by, so by definition it's fair.

You've got serious blinders on my friend.

[NightTerror218]

I think most of the Bronco fans on this board want Tebow to succeed but misstating the truth is going to change the reality of where the kid is at.

Key word "most" some are are so hung up on his mechanics, completion percent, and what not that they are blind the the 3-1 record since he started.

[GEM]

There are many factors that contribute to Tim's inaccuracy. The revision of his motion is not complete. He Threw better last year because he had the coaches in the offseason. He regressed this year because he did not. Hes been throwing one way his whole life.. and now his motion is a cocktail of old and new and is a bit unreliable. He needs a year to square away his issues and he will be a 60%+ NFL passer... But he needs time.

When he improves his passing game he is going to be very very dangerous in this league. Meanwhile be happy that we are lucky enough to win with is other qualities in the meantime.

Broncos 27 Jets 16 Go Broncos.

Perhaps his college coach should have spent some of that 4 years he had him fixing his throwing motion. :shrugs:

[NightTerror218]

Perhaps his college coach should have spent some of that 4 years he had him fixing his throwing motion. :shrugs:

He did what Fox is doing now.....winning :salute:

[GEM]

Ya, real fair analysis there. Real moderate. ROFLMAO. Whatever. Tebow wasn't even taking snaps with the first team this season, and sat out nearly all of last. People unwilling to admit he is still essentially in his rookie season, aren't worth wasting my time. An entire coaching change surely didn't help matters either, with two entirely different approaches to football.

So far, I have seen you continually say that shit here isn't worth wasting your time.....so quit. :D

[LTC Pain]

I think most of the Bronco fans on this board want Tebow to succeed but misstating the truth is going to change the reality of where the kid is at.

I fall into this category Bronc. Whoever is at QB for the Broncos I want to succeed because I want the team to succeed. TT is a talented QB with an almost infectious winning attitude and work ethic. But the cold reality is that TT needs to improve his passing, particularly from the pocket. And I don't see one shread of evidence that TT is "in synch" or "has chemistry" with any receiver. TT homers who spin stats or try and make baseless arguments otherwise simply discredit themselves and I put them on ignore. Tebow is growing on me and I wish the Broncos continued success with him at the helm. I'm frickin excited for tonight's game.

[T.K.O.]

I find it absolutely amazing that after starting 1-4 and virtually eliminated from contention in the AFCW....the BRONCOS are on the verge of a tie for 1st place and......some people just continue to squabble about how the team is winning:confused:
this place used to be fun on gamedays...even when we were getting our asses handed to us on a weekly basis.
i think some fans are just so used to losing they forgot how to act when the team actually wins !
C'mon lets just get behind the team and coaches for a change and hope for the best.
the whole thing here is that if we win a few more games and Tebow starts to get more comfortable in the passing game ....GREAT !
if not, we are no worse off than last year and will at least know we need to look at another QB.
i just think it's awesome to have a shot at a goal which seemed impossible a few weeks ago.
it's OK to enjoy the ride....it's OK:salute::beer:

[Bullgator]

Perhaps his college coach should have spent some of that 4 years he had him fixing his throwing motion. :shrugs:

That would have been great for the Broncos... and Tim... but not for the Gators. Urb did the right thing and did essentially what Fox is doing now... win now and the rest is someone else's problem.

[Northman]

I find it absolutely amazing that after starting 1-4 and virtually eliminated from contention in the AFCW....the BRONCOS are on the verge of a tie for 1st place and......some people just continue to squabble about how the team is winning:confused:


As far as i can tell no one is mad that we are winning ballgames.


C'mon lets just get behind the team and coaches for a change and hope for the best.

Most of the people are thats why they discuss it on here.


the whole thing here is that if we win a few more games and Tebow starts to get more comfortable in the passing game ....GREAT !
if not, we are no worse off than last year and will at least know we need to look at another QB.

And? Again, this is something that everyone is discussing.


i just think it's awesome to have a shot at a goal which seemed impossible a few weeks ago.
it's OK to enjoy the ride....it's OK:salute::beer:
I enjoy it every Sunday when we win. But like the players, come Monday its back to the books, back to talking about the pros and cons of the team. Im not really sure what your problem is here. :confused:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

That would have been great for the Broncos... and Tim... but for the Gators. Urb did the right thing and did essentially what Fox is doing now... win now and the rest is someone else's problem.

You might want to go to the ticket website, and listen to not only what Shannon said this morning, but then Vic/Gary got TD on with Shannon. Consensus is that eventually teams will figure out how to stop the run option. As was explained - very little film on this right now, but each game adds more film for teams to view - scheme against, etc.

[GEM]

That would have been great for the Broncos... and Tim... but not for the Gators. Urb did the right thing and did essentially what Fox is doing now... win now and the rest is someone else's problem.

And what Fox and the Broncos will tire of, and off Tim goes to another team. And then they tire of and off he goes and so on and so forth until he's out of the league, because he isn't what NFL teams want and he's so far behind there may be no future.

Sad really.

[vhatever]

And what Fox and the Broncos will tire of, and off Tim goes to another team. And then they tire of and off he goes and so on and so forth until he's out of the league, because he isn't what NFL teams want and he's so far behind there may be no future.

Sad really.

Funny, cause andy reid just a day or two ago said Tebow could be a starting QB for him. I guess you know more than one the greatest offensive coaches in the NFL currently, though.

[GEM]

Funny, cause andy reid just a day or two ago said Tebow could be a starting QB for him.

They've got the better Tebow and how well are they doing? :confused:

[vhatever]

They've got the better Tebow and how well are they doing? :confused:

Are you fond of porcelain?

[wayninja]

You might want to go to the ticket website, and listen to not only what Shannon said this morning, but then Vic/Gary got TD on with Shannon. Consensus is that eventually teams will figure out how to stop the run option. As was explained - very little film on this right now, but each game adds more film for teams to view - scheme against, etc.

I take that with a grain of salt. The consensus was also we would lose in Oakland. And again, unanimous consensus that we'd lose in KC.

I don't think Fox is so stupid that he doesn't know that teams will get more film and get better at defending this. So I don't think there is any reason to believe there won't be a plan for attempted defenses of it. Just have to see how it shakes out and not buy too much into 'consensus'.

[Bullgator]

You might want to go to the ticket website, and listen to not only what Shannon said this morning, but then Vic/Gary got TD on with Shannon. Consensus is that eventually teams will figure out how to stop the run option. As was explained - very little film on this right now, but each game adds more film for teams to view - scheme against, etc.

Buying SOME time is better than buying no time. Of course NFL Ds will eventually figure out how to stop it. Say what you want about Tebow's passing but hes no Ronnie Brown. Tebow CAN throw... and if you have a wildcat/read option QB that CAN throw its a whole nother animal. You cant cover the option/read and wildcat AND cover the pass... you have to sell out to stop the run. And make Ronnie Brown pass.. which of course he cannot. Enter a throwing QB in the same package.... that's CRAZY different.

The Broncos have yet been forced to do so, but they can pass and WILL take advantage when forced to.. You dont release the new version until the old version is obsolete. Look for more passing tonight in the second half.

As defenses catch on to this read option, this O will evolve and buy time and wins until Tim can get enough experience and comfort to run a more conventional hybrid offense.

By the way there is a HELL of alot more of these UF schemes that TT killed with that they have yet to implement.

[BroncoNut]

thuth is, noone knows shit. Everyone's acting like it though. We dont' know how TT is going to adjust, if he will or will not be lucky enough to stumble into the right staff and organization during his NFL journey, what an offseason will do for him, etc. both the "wait and see Tim Light up the NFL" and the "he's a bust" arguments are ridiculous.

"one more dying quail, just one more snake with eyes and you're in Yankee stadium" Crash Davis

[I Eat Staples]

You Gator fans made all these bold predictions since Tebow's first start and he's been a terrible passer.

Forgive me if I don't find your analysis credible anymore.

[Bullgator]

And what Fox and the Broncos will tire of, and off Tim goes to another team. And then they tire of and off he goes and so on and so forth until he's out of the league, because he isn't what NFL teams want and he's so far behind there may be no future.

Sad really.

Are you familiar with the concept of faith? and finding a way? and not giving up?

Tim is... bet against him if you want.

[I Eat Staples]

Funny, cause andy reid just a day or two ago said Tebow could be a starting QB for him. I guess you know more than one the greatest offensive coaches in the NFL currently, though.

Andy Reid is a good coach? LOL

Tell that to the 3-6 "dream team."

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I take that with a grain of salt. The consensus was also we would lose in Oakland. And again, unanimous consensus that we'd lose in KC.

I don't think Fox is so stupid that he doesn't know that teams will get more film and get better at defending this. So I don't think there is any reason to believe there won't be a plan for attempted defenses of it. Just have to see how it shakes out and not buy too much into 'consensus'.

I was talking about Shannon/TD discussing the run option - that is what the consensus BETWEEN Shannon/TD was about.

[BroncoNut]

You Gator fans made all these bold predictions since Tebow's first start and he's been a terrible passer.

Forgive me if I don't find your analysis credible anymore.

those are the types that pound the koolaid and bring it here and cause others to react the complete opposite. Lgenf's the only one I think is rational at times. HIM/her and Jaxgatorgirl,.. (who I like to call my little swamp princess)

This Tebowmania shit is just over the top. If it keeps up, I am going to off myself

[I Eat Staples]

Are you familiar with the concept of faith? and finding a way? and not giving up?

Tim is... bet against him if you want.

Lots of people have faith, don't give up and try their best to find a way.

Only 32 people are starting NFL QBs, and maybe half of them are good.

[vhatever]

You Gator fans made all these bold predictions since Tebow's first start and he's been a terrible passer.

Forgive me if I don't find your analysis credible anymore.

I'll take gator fans over poser broncos fans

Last I checked tebow was 3-1 for the year. versus 1-4 without him.

I know that burns you haters up inside.

[Softskull]

Funny, cause andy reid just a day or two ago said Tebow could be a starting QB for him. I guess you know more than one the greatest offensive coaches in the NFL currently, though.

Do you have a link to that Reid comment?

[wayninja]

Are you familiar with the concept of faith? and finding a way? and not giving up?

Tim is... bet against him if you want.

is there an emoticon for puking?

[Jsteve01]

I'll take gator fans over poser broncos fans

Last I checked tebow was 3-1 for the year. versus 1-4 without him.

I know that burns you haters up inside.

your officially done here

[vhatever]

Do you have a link to that Reid comment?

Do you watch/listen to ESPN? They were talking about it on mike and mike today.

[LTC Pain]

A neat stat that I heard during the game against the Chiefs last weekend. Tebow has thrown a TD pass in each of the seven NFL games he has started.

[Bullgator]

You Gator fans made all these bold predictions since Tebow's first start and he's been a terrible passer.

Forgive me if I don't find your analysis credible anymore.

3-1 surpasses any bold prediction I ever made. I have been right for the most part staples. The opposing Defenses had something to say about that by playing 9 wide on him relentlessly and so fox countered with a run heavy scheme.

He has not been a horrible passer. 7 Tds in 4 starts with only 1 pick.. he just isnt comfortable yet and doesn't look pretty.

Staples you might feel a little different after tonight's game.

[catfish]

A neat stat that I heard during the game against the Chiefs last weekend. Tebow has thrown a TD pass in each of the seven NFL games he has started.

something to be said for getting it in the endzone

[vhatever]

Andy Reid is a good coach? LOL

Tell that to the 3-6 "dream team."

Vick is a choker and made of glass. He fooled the front office last year. Not reid's fault. The eagles are the highest scoring team in the NFL in the first three quarters, but choke it away in the fourth quarter. No wonder he wants tebow, eh?

[BroncoNut]

3-1 surpasses any bold prediction I ever made. I have been right for the most part staples. The opposing Defenses had something to say about that by playing 9 wide on him relentlessly and so fox countered with a run heavy scheme.

He has not been a horrible passer. 7 Tds in 4 starts with only 1 pick.. he just isnt comfortable yet and doesn't look pretty.

Staples you might feel a little different after tonight's game.

I hope Staples does.

[Bullgator]

is there an emoticon for puking?

why does that bother you way? explain. (i dont think you can)

[wayninja]

why does that bother you way? explain. (i dont think you can)

It bothers me because is useless drivel that means nothing. It's pure platitude and seems like it was taken from an energy drink commercial or something.

[BroncoNut]

why does that bother you way? explain. (i dont think you can)

It's kinda cheesy BG. faith is good, but faith without works is dead.

[Softskull]

Do you watch/listen to ESPN? They were talking about it on mike and mike today.

So you heard Mike and Mike say that Reid said he'd take Tebow as his starter over Vick?

[vhatever]

So you heard Mike and Mike say that Reid said he'd take Tebow as his starter over Vick?

Ya, I think they mentioned it on first take, too.

[Bullgator]

It's kinda cheesy BG. faith is good, but faith without works is dead.

Hmmm so now Tim has the faith but not the works? is he lacking the works department?

Its cheesy to you and me but the dood lives by it and it has gotten him to where he is and thats a champion. If he gets to be a champion at this level it will be because of his faith and works.

[Bullgator]

It bothers me because is useless drivel that means nothing. It's pure platitude and seems like it was taken from an energy drink commercial or something.

Says YOU. at BEST that is only your opinion. Dont state that as fact way. You could be WAY wrong on that. it COULD mean everything and you are in the dark.

[claymore]

Im starting to hate mcdaniels for drafting tebow more than I am the other shit he did.

[BroncoNut]

Says YOU. at BEST that is only your opinion. Dont state that as fact way. You could be WAY wrong on that. it COULD mean everything and you are in the dark.

BG, your being a bit zealous. it's like you want Meningi or whoever to rot in hell for eternity or something like that.

[BroncoNut]

Hmmm so now Tim has the faith but not the works? is he lacking the works department?

Its cheesy to you and me but the dood lives by it and it has gotten him to where he is and thats a champion. If he gets to be a champion at this level it will be because of his faith and works.

Oh for the love of God. You're making it sound like God's going to work through Tebow to part Invesco field like He did with Moses in parting the red sea when he led the Hebrews out of Egypt and the Egyptians were chasing them across the desert to slaughter them. this is Zealotry

[vhatever]

So you heard Mike and Mike say that Reid said he'd take Tebow as his starter over Vick?

wait, I didn't catch that last part. No, he didn't say that. He was asked if he though tebow could be a legit starter in the NFL, and Reid said that tebow could "be a starter for me".

[wayninja]

Says YOU. at BEST that is only your opinion. Dont state that as fact way. You could be WAY wrong on that. it COULD mean everything and you are in the dark.

You are the one speaking as though he's already been voted superbowl MVP.

I can't be way wrong about it, a platitude is a platitude. It's as meaningless as it is starry-eyed. It just embarrasses us both, so please stop.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Why can't we just take a weekly wait and see attitude - to see how things play out, rather than throwing out predictions, that may or may not turn out to be accurate.

[BroncoNut]

Why can't we just take a weekly wait and see attitude - to see how things play out, rather than throwing out predictions, that may or may not turn out to be accurate.

I think it's fun to bitch about it and go nowhere. It's entertaining.

[vhatever]

You are the one speaking as though he's already been voted superbowl MVP.

First sophomore the win the heisman
First QB in bronco's history to have over a 100 passer rating in first start.
Longest touchdown run for a QB in broncos history
Longest touchdown run for a QB in NFL for a rookie.
First quarterback in NFL history to lead his team back to a win from 14+ points in the last 3 minutes of a game.
First QB in NFL history to rush and pass for a TD in all his rookie starts.



He's got more NFL records than game starts.

[Northman]

First sophomore the win the heisman
First QB in bronco's history to have over a 100 passer rating in first start.
Longest touchdown run for a QB in broncos history
Longest touchdown run for a QB in NFL for a rookie.
First quarterback in NFL history to lead his team back to a win from 14+ points in the last 3 minutes of a game.
First QB in NFL history to rush and pass for a TD in all his rookie starts.



He's got more NFL records than game starts.


I must of missed something, which one of those is Super Bowl MVP?

[slim]

First sophomore the win the heisman
First QB in bronco's history to have over a 100 passer rating in first start.
Longest touchdown run for a QB in broncos history
Longest touchdown run for a QB in NFL for a rookie.
First quarterback in NFL history to lead his team back to a win from 14+ points in the last 3 minutes of a game.
First QB in NFL history to rush and pass for a TD in all his rookie starts.



He's got more NFL records than game starts.

I don't care enough to fact check your "stats", but I know for a fact that the last one is total BS.

[Jsteve01]

I don't care enough to fact check your "stats", but I know for a fact that the last one is total BS.

it was three games slim...it may be true

[vhatever]

I must of missed something, which one of those is Super Bowl MVP?

He does get one, it probably won't be with the broncos. You'll have to covet that one from afar while the QB carousel spins round and round.

[Northman]

He does get one, it probably won't be with the broncos. You'll have to covet that one from afar while the QB carousel spins round and round.

:lol:

Yea, ok. Keep playing with that crystal ball.

[vhatever]

:lol:

Yea, ok. Keep playing with that crystal ball.

I'm just saying elway has no faith in him, fox doesn't, and many of the fans don't. This team won't be superbowl bound for a couple years to come at a minimum, and it doesn't look like a bright future for Tebow in denver.

[catfish]

:lol:

Yea, ok. Keep playing with that crystal ball.

Crystal Ball is a stripper name

(does anyone else giggle at the RB combo of Ball and Johnson, my inner 5 year old)

[Jsteve01]

Im not as quick as you catfish...i did lol a little just now

[vhatever]

Crystal Ball is a stripper name

(does anyone else giggle at the RB combo of Ball and Johnson, my inner 5 year old)

Too bad Griese isn't still around.

[Northman]

I'm just saying elway has no faith in him, fox doesn't, and many of the fans don't. This team won't be superbowl bound for a couple years to come at a minimum, and it doesn't look like a bright future for Tebow in denver.


Funny, i hear sound bites that totally contradict what your saying here.

[Bullgator]

BG, your being a bit zealous. it's like you want Meningi or whoever to rot in hell for eternity or something like that.

That's a crazy thing to say nut.

[BroncoNut]

That's a crazy thing to say nut.

oh that, yeah, I guess.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I'm just saying elway has no faith in him, fox doesn't, and many of the fans don't. This team won't be superbowl bound for a couple years to come at a minimum, and it doesn't look like a bright future for Tebow in denver.

Prove that Elway/Fox have no faith in him, because I can find you many articles, interviews which state differently.

[vhatever]

Funny, i hear sound bites that totally contradict what your saying here.

And next month it will be an entirely different story out of their mouths when it comes to fox, elway and co. I think many of the critical fans can be swayed simply by success. The company men want no part of it though. Like the other psot i made that vanished or was locked, people closely connected to the front office like Schlereth have said tebow won't even stay the starting QB if he wins in the playoffs this season. Pretty damning statement.

[Jsteve01]

Prove that Elway/Fox have no faith in him, because I can find you many articles, interviews which state differently.

Carol you'll need to catch up...Elway is jealous of Tebow and is secretly setting him up to fail all the while undermining the growth of the franchise he gave his knees to.

[vhatever]

Prove that Elway/Fox have no faith in him, because I can find you many articles, interviews which state differently.

tebow went 3-1 with a team that just traded their best WR and was at 1-4.

In response to the completely unimaginable success, Elway says tebow is still "week to week".

How can you have faith in a QB you only trust for one week's time?

[Bullgator]

Oh for the love of God. You're making it sound like God's going to work through Tebow to part Invesco field like He did with Moses in parting the red sea when he led the Hebrews out of Egypt and the Egyptians were chasing them across the desert to slaughter them. this is Zealotry

No man you are the one a bit overboard right now.

Faith is a powerful tool even to the atheist. If you believe, even if its in yourself, you will become as successful at anything you want. Hes relentless and that's grounded in his faith... its anchored. Have you seen him waiver in the least even with all this negativity? What player have you ever seen that has been slaughtered by the media day in and day be THIS confident and posed? Its not like he was harolded and then lost the medias graces like LaBron. From before the draft the butchering was on.

If nothing else his faith has saved him from becoming Ryan Leaf. Leaf WAS a great QB but he just couldn't handle the pressure and imploded.

Not Tim, he THRIVES on pressure. 3 comebacks already speaks to that.

But my point is you are trying very hard to turn this into me saying that God loves Tim Tebow and hates the Jets lol. And I was responding to GEM's lament about how Tebow wont get a chance and is being used by everyone to win now but then will kick him to the curb. I was saying Tim has the pose to put up a fight... and I wouldn't bet against him.

[elwayisgod]

All this back and forth on Tebow is meaningless for us armchairs to debate. Until he proves to Fox and Elway he can be a NFL caliber QB, its all just meaningless babble. Bet you me Elway and Fox do NOT want to run this offense much longer!!!!!

[elwayisgod]

Elway Jealous of Tebow?????? Your a complete idiot!!!!

[BroncoNut]

Elway Jealous of Tebow?????? Your a complete idiot!!!!

that's what I thought at first too, but apparently that's the case. It was on Shawn Hannity last night

[NightTerror218]

All this back and forth on Tebow is meaningless for us armchairs to debate. Until he proves to Fox and Elway he can be a NFL caliber QB, its all just meaningless babble. Bet you me Elway and Fox do NOT want to run this offense much longer!!!!!

I would say they are happy with it. They are 2-0 with it. And 3-1 with Tim. It is working why change it? Nobody has the answer for this offense yet. Like I said you load 1 side and the ball runs the other way. If dont cover all the WR/TE then there will be 1 open guy for a pass. Like all coaches have said, it is a tricky offense with Tebow in there.

[NightTerror218]

that's what I thought at first too, but apparently that's the case. It was on Shawn Hannity last night

Only reason Elway would be jealous is because he can no longer play. He would prob envy the youth more then anything and being able to play.

[BroncoNut]

Only reason Elway would be jealous is because he can no longer play. He would prob envy the youth more then anything and being able to play.

oh yeah, I'm sure.

[vhatever]

Only reason Elway would be jealous is because he can no longer play. He would prob envy the youth more then anything and being able to play.

Well, now that I think about it...

Even at this incredibly early point in his career, you could argue tim tebow is more popular player than elway was at any point in his career -- outside of colorado obviously. You could also argue that tim tebow was a far more accomplished collegiate athlete. Tebow has done way better as rookie than elway did. Those are just simple facts. Elway is old now, and much of what he is is his legacy of winning. If tebow came in and won a SB, Elway may become little more than a ghost in denver's history.

[Bullgator]

I must of missed something, which one of those is Super Bowl MVP?

Who said anything about a super bowl MVP?...

when you guys dont have a leg to stand on you can always fall back on straight up lying to make us look crazy lol.

As for you Claymore, I understand why you hate Tebow and its because he carries the religious baggage with him... and you hate mixing that with your sports. I get that. Cant blame you.

But if he starts winning then its a small price to pay. If you are rooting for this kid to fail then IMO you are not a good fan.

Just like when KO was playing, anyone who wanted to see KO implode to see Tim start was poor Bronco fan... From what I understand thats a big deal around here. For me its a lil different because, as I am constantly reminded, that I am here only because of Tebow, but you never saw me state that I wanted KO to fail... I did however comment on how bad he played after the fact.

I hope that Tim can win you over Clay... If he can win you over he can win over anyone.

[wayninja]

tebow went 3-1 with a team that just traded their best WR and was at 1-4.

In response to the completely unimaginable success, Elway says tebow is still "week to week".

How can you have faith in a QB you only trust for one week's time?

Hey, I like the kid and all, but 'Tebow' was not the only one playing the last 4 weeks. Get off the dudes stick.

[vhatever]

Hey, I like the kid and all, but 'Tebow' was not the only one playing the last 4 weeks. Get off the dudes stick.

On the offense? Sometimes I wonder....


jocking aside, 3-1 is 3-1. For a team in as rough shape as the broncos were in at 1-4, elway should have been much more supportive of tebow, not some bulll "week to week" nonsense. He knows full well the media situation for tebow. There is no excuse for the comment. He simply does not have faith in tebow, the end. I believe the comment speaks for itself.

[Bullgator]

Hey, I like the kid and all, but 'Tebow' was not the only one playing the last 4 weeks. Get off the dudes stick.

other than the Miami game (which Tim pulled out of his ass... after he put the team in the hole) the other Two were great team wins... Tim played well enough IMO but not great and the TEAM stepped up. Tim is playing posed and isnt making costly mistakes while putting up the points needed.

Both lines are playing lights out.

Ill tell you what the Oline is loving this shit right now.. ask any Olineman and he will tell you that he would rather move downhill than backpeddle. They are playing their element and are dominant right now.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

tebow went 3-1 with a team that just traded their best WR and was at 1-4.

In response to the completely unimaginable success, Elway says tebow is still "week to week".

How can you have faith in a QB you only trust for one week's time?


“Tim’s going to have to throw the ball the rest of the year, there’s no question,” Elway said. “We want Tim to be able to throw from the pocket, (but) we’re not trying to make him a pocket passer.”

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/14/broncos-elway-game-vs-kansas-city-dictated-heavy-rushing-attack/10693/

directly from Elway this past Monday - the rest of the year

NEXT

[BroncoNut]

No man you are the one a bit overboard right now.

Faith is a powerful tool even to the atheist. If you believe, even if its in yourself, you will become as successful at anything you want. Hes relentless and that's grounded in his faith... its anchored. Have you seen him waiver in the least even with all this negativity? What player have you ever seen that has been slaughtered by the media day in and day be THIS confident and posed? Its not like he was harolded and then lost the medias graces like LaBron. From before the draft the butchering was on.

If nothing else his faith has saved him from becoming Ryan Leaf. Leaf WAS a great QB but he just couldn't handle the pressure and imploded.

Not Tim, he THRIVES on pressure. 3 comebacks already speaks to that.

But my point is you are trying very hard to turn this into me saying that God loves Tim Tebow and hates the Jets lol. And I was responding to GEM's lament about how Tebow wont get a chance and is being used by everyone to win now but then will kick him to the curb. I was saying Tim has the pose to put up a fight... and I wouldn't bet against him.

I know what you're saying. He does seem like a real good guy. very tough and mature. I just don't know how long this will last in the league, and let me let you in on a little something... Neither do you

[Bullgator]

I know what you're saying. He does seem like a real good guy. very tough and mature. I just don't know how long this will last in the league, and let me let you in on a little something... Neither do you

Nah... Im going to go with his track record nut... I'm going to fully believe that Tim will do what he says he will, and history agrees with me.

You cant blame me for leaning on Tim a little, in my book he has earned it. Maybe if I was you, as a long time Bronco fan, it would be a toss up for me too.. but believe me its more fun putting faith in this kid instead of being a media lemming. All three wins were like honey.

[vhatever]

Well, now that I think about it...

Even at this incredibly early point in his career, you could argue tim tebow is more popular player than elway was at any point in his career -- outside of colorado obviously. You could also argue that tim tebow was a far more accomplished collegiate athlete. Tebow has done way better as rookie than elway did. Those are just simple facts. Elway is old now, and much of what he is is his legacy of winning. If tebow came in and won a SB, Elway may become little more than a ghost in denver's history.

Oh, and i forgot to mention, first bronco QB to beat miami at home? First bronco QB to beat the queefs and rapers in back to back games???

[BroncoNut]

Oh, and i forgot to mention, first bronco QB to beat miami at home? First bronco QB to beat the queefs and rapers in back to back games???

Tim Tebow?

[catfish]

I think everyone is missing the point of the thread. I for one think Koolaid is delicious

[vhatever]

Tim Tebow?

Ya tim tebow. i'm pretty sure (99)% those are true.

[BroncoNut]

I think everyone is missing the point of the thread. I for one think Koolaid is delicious

my favorite flavor is unsweetened Grape. maybe not unsweetened , but you dont add sugar like you do the one's from the packet. It comes in nice little screw cap plastic containers, (which, by the way has utility beyond that of KoolAid in making just wonderful containers for lunches and other snacks for work, school, traveling,.. whatever)

[slim]

I haven't had koolaid since I was a kid.

I remember it being overly sweet, though.

[catfish]

my favorite flavor is unsweetened Grape. maybe not unsweetened , but you dont add sugar like you do the one's from the packet. It comes in nice little screw cap plastic containers, (which, by the way has utility beyond that of KoolAid in making just wonderful containers for lunches and other snacks for work, school, traveling,.. whatever)

in keeping with the spirit of the conversation so far....you moron everyone can see Cherry is the best flavor..grape is at best a fallback flavor and screwcap containers are bad for the environment, IDIOT (j/k)

[BroncoNut]

Nah... Im going to go with his track record nut... I'm going to fully believe that Tim will do what he says he will, and history agrees with me.

You cant blame me for leaning on Tim a little, in my book he has earned it. Maybe if I was you, as a long time Bronco fan, it would be a toss up for me too.. but believe me its more fun putting faith in this kid instead of being a media lemming. All three wins were like honey.

well, like I have said earlier, I am not in either boat at this time. I would say that in what we have in the history of Tim Tebow in the NFL, the record is very good. I missed last week's game. Really pumped to watch tonites.

[elwayisgod]

Beat a playoff winning team with it!! Better yet win a playoff game with it!!!! Then lets talk!!!

[wayninja]

other than the Miami game (which Tim pulled out of his ass... after he put the team in the hole) the other Two were great team wins... Tim played well enough IMO but not great and the TEAM stepped up. Tim is playing posed and isnt making costly mistakes while putting up the points needed.

Not taking away from anything Tebow did in the Miami game, that was simple, pure, fun, but that onside kick recovery saved his bacon.

I agree Tim is doing fine, but some of the people in here are making him out to be the MVP of the league (some are making him out to be the Pope of the league). I just don't see that. I think it can happen if the guy really improves his throwing game to make it a true dual threat, but he's just not anywhere near there yet and attempt to artificially elevate his performance isn't doing anyone any favors.

Both lines are playing lights out.

[catfish]

Beat a playoff winning team with it!! Better yet win a playoff game with it!!!! Then lets talk!!!

not trying to be a jerk, but Denver wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire with its pass first offense, that doesn't mean pass first doesn't work in the NFL

[BroncoNut]

in keeping with the spirit of the conversation so far....you moron everyone can see Cherry is the best flavor..grape is at best a fallback flavor and screwcap containers are bad for the environment, IDIOT (j/k)

Ummm. retard. so throw out the plastic container and buy a bunch of disposables/ paper bags, glad sandiwhich bags, whatever. yeah, that's real environmentally sound. Jerkoff (just kidding)

there are 3 Rs for practicing environmental consumer lifestyle I think it's recycle, reuse and I forget the other. this case would be reuse.

[catfish]

Not taking away from anything Tebow did in the Miami game, that was simple, pure, fun, but that onside kick recovery saved his bacon.

I agree Tim is doing fine, but some of the people in here are making him out to be the MVP of the league (some are making him out to be the Pope of the league). I just don't see that. I think it can happen if the guy really improves his throwing game to make it a true dual threat, but he's just not anywhere near there yet and attempt to artificially elevate his performance isn't doing anyone any favors.

Both lines are playing lights out.

but what is your opinion on the Kool aid issue?

[catfish]

as an aside, there is a thread on when a catch should be made on the Football 101 section, would be interested in everyone's take if you aren't too busy

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Not taking away from anything Tebow did in the Miami game, that was simple, pure, fun, but that onside kick recovery saved his bacon.

I agree Tim is doing fine, but some of the people in here are making him out to be the MVP of the league (some are making him out to be the Pope of the league). I just don't see that. I think it can happen if the guy really improves his throwing game to make it a true dual threat, but he's just not anywhere near there yet and attempt to artificially elevate his performance isn't doing anyone any favors.

Both lines are playing lights out.

Not only the onside kick recovery, but DJ causing the fumble. The wins have been team wins - and HEY - nothing wrong with that.

[G_Money]

Not taking away from anything Tebow did in the Miami game, that was simple, pure, fun, but that onside kick recovery saved his bacon.

I agree Tim is doing fine, but some of the people in here are making him out to be the MVP of the league (some are making him out to be the Pope of the league). I just don't see that. I think it can happen if the guy really improves his throwing game to make it a true dual threat, but he's just not anywhere near there yet and attempt to artificially elevate his performance isn't doing anyone any favors.

Both lines are playing lights out.

When we don't have to pass block, our line is doing quite well. :salute: I'd love to see that continue, but I'd still do some line shuffling in the offseason so that when Tim DOES drop back to pass next year (assuming he's the QB) he's not eating turf all the time.

Agreed on the Tebow stuff - but seriously, how bout that Koolaid Question?

~G

[BroncoNut]

not trying to be a jerk,

bs catfish, no one's that good

[catfish]

Ummm. retard. so throw out the plastic container and buy a bunch of disposables/ paper bags, glad sandiwhich bags, whatever. yeah, that's real environmentally sound. Jerkoff (just kidding)

there are 3 Rs for practicing environmental consumer lifestyle I think it's recycle, reuse and I forget the other. this case would be reuse.

why would I go to all the trouble of making grape environmentally friendly when I could just go out and buy a perfectly good cherry. Furthermore grape Kool-aid shouldn't even be considered a real soft drink, sugary liquid maybe, thirst quencher sure, but it is not and never will be a soft drink. Cherry Koolaid will someday replace water as the life giving liquid on earth...what color is the Kool-aid man....not purple OHH YEAH!!

[catfish]

bs catfish, no one's that good

don't hafta try....just am :)

[elwayisgod]

@catfish
your right!! It takes a qb capable of executing a pass first offense!!! Which we dont have on roster!!!!

[vhatever]

@catfish
your right!! It takes a qb capable of executing a pass first offense!!! Which we dont have on roster!!!!

Bad grammar and exclamation point diarrhea don't make your posts any more profound!!!!!!!!!<-- see, did nothing.

Try caps lock, maybe?

[GEM]

Are you familiar with the concept of faith? and finding a way? and not giving up?

Tim is... bet against him if you want.

Faith? If I wish upon a star, one day my throwing motion will be all new. Hopes and dreams are great, reality is right now, he isn't there. I don't know if the Broncos will have the patience to wait that long. I don't know that any NFL team will.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

So I have a 6 quart Crock pot of Hawaiian style Tri tip and in 3 hours I'm heading to my favorite bar for the pot luck to sit among-st all the New Yoke'ers (sic but with the proper accent) and watch the Broncs win.

[GEM]

I'll take gator fans over poser broncos fans

Last I checked tebow was 3-1 for the year. versus 1-4 without him.

I know that burns you haters up inside.

And your fake ass I'm a Broncos fan. Be honest. Can you? You aren't a Broncos fan, you're a Tebow fan. Nice try though.

It burns up Broncos fans to be winning? Wow...look at the logic on you.

[GEM]

He does get one, it probably won't be with the broncos. You'll have to covet that one from afar while the QB carousel spins round and round.

:lol: And you lie that you're a Broncos fan. :laugh:

[slim]

Yeah, I hate winning.

[vhatever]

Faith? If I wish upon a star, one day my throwing motion will be all new. Hopes and dreams are great, reality is right now, he isn't there. I don't know if the Broncos will have the patience to wait that long. I don't know that any NFL team will.

Another media talking point. I don't recall marino or rivers funky throwing motion hampering their careers.You can keep wishing for john elway junior to come down the pipe, too. Another couple decades and he'll be here, surely.

[vhatever]

:lol: And you lie that you're a Broncos fan. :laugh:

I'm probably one of the few people here who can legitimately say they have been attacked before for wearing an elway jersey. Spare me your nonsense. Just because I don't hate on possibly the greatest college football in history and I truthfully point oout the lies and double speak of fox, elway, and co, don't kid yourself.

[GEM]

Another media talking point. I don't recall marino or rivers funky throwing motion hampering their careers.You can keep wishing for john elway junior to come down the pipe, too. Another couple decades and he'll be here, surely.

I'll take a QB that can handle running a normal NFL offense, thank you.

Don't begin to compare Tebow to Rivers or Marino. FFS Rodgers, Rivers and now Marino...talk about wishing. :laugh:

[GEM]

I'm probably one of the few people here who can legitimately say they have been attacked before for wearing an elway jersey. Spare me your nonsense. Just because I don't hate on possibly the greatest college football in history and I truthfully point oout the lies and double speak of fox, elway, and co, don't kid yourself.

No...because you hate on everyone Broncos EXCEPT Tebow. You're a fake...a fraud...and everyone has seen through the lie. You never were a Broncos fan. Quit lying.

[vhatever]

No...because you hate on everyone Broncos EXCEPT Tebow. You're a fake...a fraud...and everyone has seen through the lie. You never were a Broncos fan. Quit lying.

I don't hate on them. I'm just honest. One day you will learn the difference.... If you wish long enough.

[NightTerror218]

I'll take a QB that can handle running a normal NFL offense, thank you.

Don't begin to compare Tebow to Rivers or Marino. FFS Rodgers, Rivers and now Marino...talk about wishing. :laugh:

I will take a QB that can win over a pocket passer. Look at our offense. It has completely dominated defenses. It is old school run heavy. So far defenses are being worn down by it.

I am not saying TT is amazing but he is winning by creating a multidimensional running offense. I do say he need to increase his passing accuracy which I would hope would evolve the offense into having PA plays. But I am content if our defense can hold and we run down peoples throats and control the game.

[Northman]

I will take a QB that can win over a pocket passer.

Well, lets not sell Gem short. Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Big Ben are all pocket passers who win.

[GEM]

I will take a QB that can win over a pocket passer. Look at our offense. It has completely dominated defenses. It is old school run heavy. So far defenses are being worn down by it.

I am not saying TT is amazing but he is winning by creating a multidimensional running offense. I do say he need to increase his passing accuracy which I would hope would evolve the offense into having PA plays. But I am content if our defense can hold and we run down peoples throats and control the game.

I would like both please.

The key to your post....so far.

See this is the thing...it is either/or with Tebow fanatics. If you like him, but don't completely have faith that he is the long term answer, you're a hater. There is no being on the fence with the guy.

And that actually makes me like him less.

[Ravage!!!]

Another media talking point. I don't recall marino or rivers funky throwing motion hampering their careers.You can keep wishing for john elway junior to come down the pipe, too. Another couple decades and he'll be here, surely.

Exactly. Its why those who think the ONLY problem people have with tim's passing, is his motion. Its not. Its everything about his throwing the ball that is off. It not just his horrible release point, because Rivers has horrible throw motion, but is accurate (although having an off season). Marino had good mechanics and cannon arm, and DEADLY accurate. Tebow doesnt have either. His mechanics, that are MUCH more than just his arm motion, are wayyyyyy off. Soooooo much so that he will NEVER be an accurate passer. He is more than just inaccurate, hes just a flat out BAD thrower.....period. So this concept of to just let Tebow be Tebow, is just wrong. So its NOT just his "funky" throwing motion that those in the know, are criticizing. Its MUCHMUCH more.

[GEM]

I don't hate on them. I'm just honest. One day you will learn the difference.... If you wish long enough.

No, you are making shit up and calling it honest.

Tin foil and conspiracy theories are not honesty.

You have done nothing since getting here to point out that you are a Broncos fan. You have done everything since getting her to point out that you are a Tebow fan. Own your words.

Elway is a hack who is jealous of Tim Tebow. He and Fox want nothing more than to lose and get rid of Tim Tebow. They are both liars because they don't come out and say that Tim Tebow is bad. They don't come out and say that he can't run and NFL offense.

They are liars because they have said they are doing the best they can with what they have.

Is it an indictment on Fox that he has spoken the truth or is it an indictment on Tebow that those words are true?

[Ravage!!!]

I will take a QB that can win over a pocket passer. Look at our offense. It has completely dominated defenses. It is old school run heavy. So far defenses are being worn down by it.



Wait, other than the chiefs, who have we dominated? :confused: no one. You know who dominates defenses...... Green Bay and their pocket passer.

This isnt "old school" offense. This is more like pre-pass NFL days. Thats the only time you see a team refuse to throw.

[BigDaddyBronco]

C'mon GEM, the only reason Fox is using this college offense is to highlight that Tebow should be turned into a FB. He wants a pocket QB with a pure throwing motion so bad that he is unwilling to play Tebow in an NFL offense for fear that he might succeed and they would not be able to turn him into a FB.

Truth!

[Northman]

No, you are making shit up and calling it honest.

Tin foil and conspiracy theories are not honesty.

You have done nothing since getting here to point out that you are a Broncos fan. You have done everything since getting her to point out that you are a Tebow fan. Own your words.

Elway is a hack who is jealous of Tim Tebow. He and Fox want nothing more than to lose and get rid of Tim Tebow. They are both liars because they don't come out and say that Tim Tebow is bad. They don't come out and say that he can't run and NFL offense.

They are liars because they have said they are doing the best they can with what they have.

Is it an indictment on Fox that he has spoken the truth or is it an indictment on Tebow that those words are true?


He's still reeling from when i proved him wrong about him claiming that Tebow had over a 50% completion rate. :lol:

[NightTerror218]

Wait, other than the chiefs, who have we dominated? :confused: no one. You know who dominates defenses...... Green Bay and their pocket passer.

This isnt "old school" offense. This is more like pre-pass NFL days. Thats the only time you see a team refuse to throw.

Green Bay is loaded with Talent, almost double digit pro bowlers. Our offense dominated oakland.....300 yards on the ground. That is 2 for 2 with our new option offense. We did not run this offense against Detroit or Miami. We did basic rushing but not "belly reads".

[I Eat Staples]

I'll take gator fans over poser broncos fans

Last I checked tebow was 3-1 for the year. versus 1-4 without him.

I know that burns you haters up inside.

Right, because it's not like the Broncos have existed long before Tebow was even born or anything. I mean true fans never criticize the starting QB, right? It's not like every team in NFL history has done that before or any crazy thing along those lines.


3-1 surpasses any bold prediction I ever made. I have been right for the most part staples. The opposing Defenses had something to say about that by playing 9 wide on him relentlessly and so fox countered with a run heavy scheme.

He has not been a horrible passer. 7 Tds in 4 starts with only 1 pick.. he just isnt comfortable yet and doesn't look pretty.

Staples you might feel a little different after tonight's game.

I'm glad he hasn't turned the ball over much, but you chose his only positive quality other than rushing to point out. I've watched every one of his snaps so far, he's looked REALLY bad as a passer for the most part. But I'll give you this, he's improved since the Miami and Detroit games, although not by enough.

I'd love to feel differently after tonight's game, but my gut feeling is that the Jets are going to crush us. A win tonight would really go a long way in making me a Tebow supporter though.


Vick is a choker and made of glass. He fooled the front office last year. Not reid's fault. The eagles are the highest scoring team in the NFL in the first three quarters, but choke it away in the fourth quarter. No wonder he wants tebow, eh?

Does he want Tebow to play defense? When you're constantly blowing 4th quarter leads, it's because your defense can't stop anyone when the game is on the line. That's Reid's fault for building a speed defense and making his Offensive Line coach the new DC.


No man you are the one a bit overboard right now.

Faith is a powerful tool even to the atheist. If you believe, even if its in yourself, you will become as successful at anything you want. Hes relentless and that's grounded in his faith... its anchored. Have you seen him waiver in the least even with all this negativity? What player have you ever seen that has been slaughtered by the media day in and day be THIS confident and posed? Its not like he was harolded and then lost the medias graces like LaBron. From before the draft the butchering was on.

If nothing else his faith has saved him from becoming Ryan Leaf. Leaf WAS a great QB but he just couldn't handle the pressure and imploded.

Not Tim, he THRIVES on pressure. 3 comebacks already speaks to that.

But my point is you are trying very hard to turn this into me saying that God loves Tim Tebow and hates the Jets lol. And I was responding to GEM's lament about how Tebow wont get a chance and is being used by everyone to win now but then will kick him to the curb. I was saying Tim has the pose to put up a fight... and I wouldn't bet against him.

Tebow is a determined and hard working guy, and definitely will fight until the very end. That's a very good quality and I like and admire that about him. That has nothing to do with his faith though. Is it so hard to believe Tebow is simply a determined and hard working person who also happens to have faith?

You need to stop acting like a preacher on here. This is a football forum. If faith could make me an NFL superstar, I'd pray to whatever god you told me to. But it can't, and neither can hard work alone. You need talent, and whether or not Tebow has the talent to be an NFL QB is the debate. I say he doesn't, you say he does. We'll see who's right eventually, but the faith argument has to go. It holds no relevance.

[Northman]

Green Bay is loaded with Talent, almost double digit pro bowlers. Our offense dominated oakland.....300 yards on the ground. That is 2 for 2 with our new option offense. We did not run this offense against Detroit or Miami. We did basic rushing but not "belly reads".


Oakland and KC are bad. Guess we will see tonight how much we dominate and if we are for real or not.

[NightTerror218]

I would like both please.

The key to your post....so far.

See this is the thing...it is either/or with Tebow fanatics. If you like him, but don't completely have faith that he is the long term answer, you're a hater. There is no being on the fence with the guy.

And that actually makes me like him less.

Great, so Tebow fans are making you like our STARTING QB LESS?!?!?!?!?! :tsk:

But it does the other way, if you like TT and really are pulling for him to succeed you are branded as a Teboner fan. There is no middle ground. I really am pulling for TT to succeed and look at more then his mechanics and accuracy. I try to look at progression from 1 game to another.

Right now I see him limited in the amount of reads he must do with the option offense. I see him looking in the box and seeing where defenders are and how they are going to come at him. I see his accuracy getting slightly better over the 4 game span. With several way off balls in Miami to 1 last game. I saw several dropped balls and a couple not completely on target, but they were almost all deep passes too. I believe he was 1 for 1 on 20 and under yards away. I just hope that he progresses into reading 1 side of field with some PA and then the other to help him read the defenses.

[NightTerror218]

Oakland and KC are bad. Guess we will see tonight how much we dominate and if we are for real or not.

Oakland is suppose to have a pretty stout front 7. But they are not good by any means. We ran well against Miami who is a better defensive team then the Jets. We just tried to run on them a lot with no option offense. I would say tonight is going to be a real test. I hope DT works Revis over like last year.

[Northman]

Great, so Tebow fans are making you like our STARTING QB LESS?!?!?!?!?! :tsk:



I feel her pain. I like Tebow, want him to succeed but the individuals on this board who only care about him and troll the forum get really tiresome. So unfortuantely that reflects on Tebow himself as (as Claymore put it) i really wish we never drafted him. His fanatic fans are making it extremely difficult to even want him here. If they could just shut the **** up and let the kid play it out it would make the world a much better place.

[GEM]

Great, so Tebow fans are making you like our STARTING QB LESS?!?!?!?!?! :tsk:

But it does the other way, if you like TT and really are pulling for him to succeed you are branded as a Teboner fan. There is no middle ground. I really am pulling for TT to succeed and look at more then his mechanics and accuracy. I try to look at progression from 1 game to another.

Right now I see him limited in the amount of reads he must do with the option offense. I see him looking in the box and seeing where defenders are and how they are going to come at him. I see his accuracy getting slightly better over the 4 game span. With several way off balls in Miami to 1 last game. I saw several dropped balls and a couple not completely on target, but they were almost all deep passes too. I believe he was 1 for 1 on 20 and under yards away. I just hope that he progresses into reading 1 side of field with some PA and then the other to help him read the defenses.

I don't believe in having to tear down one thing to bring something else up. Especially when the thing you choose to tear down is Elway. Elway to us is what Tebow is to them. I don't call Tebow a liar. I don't call him a fake. I don't make up shit about him. I do say he's a poor passer, I do say he has problems reading defenses. See the difference. I don't attack Tebow's character or who he is as a man. Every attack on Elway is on a personal level.

That is why I am getting to the point of disliking our starting QB.

I love Tebow. I think he is an awesome individual. I would love my boys to look up to him, more so than probably anyone in the NFL right now. That doesn't mean I believe in his football abilities.

Hope that makes sense.

[Mike]

Who cares about the fanatics?

I don't know how you just can't like the kid. His heart, passion, and drive for the game is great. And more importantly, the team for whatever reason, plays better with him around. Don't know if he is the answer, but I am a fan regardless of the baggage that comes with him.

[camdisco24]

Who cares about the fanatics?

I don't know how you just can't like the kid. His heart, passion, and drive for the game is great. And more importantly, the team for whatever reason, plays better with him around. Don't know if he is the answer, but I am a fan regardless of the baggage that comes with him.

X2 and amen.

[Cugel]

The Broncos organization isn't giving any koolaid right now. Their stance is that they play Tebow and see how it goes. Fox, himself, is committed to really tailoring the offense to Tebow's strengths and hiding his weaknesses.

Elway's probably thinking, if this goes by way of the wildcat, they'd rather find out sooner than later.

You have to distinguish between THIS year and next. THIS year they want to win as much as possible to establish a winning attitude in Denver.

But, it will ALL depend on whether Elway thinks Tebow will ever be an elite passing QB.

Because running the option couldn't be LESS RELEVANT to the Broncos long-term success. You simply don't want your $9+ million QB running 10-15 times a game.

Flat doesn't matter how many games you could win. He just won't last. Period. :coffee:

If Tebow is going to be the Franchise QB next season then he has to be able to stand in the pocket MOST of the time and deliver the ball on time and on target. There can be designed roll-outs. He can run on occasion when the play breaks down. He can still occasionally make a play with his feet.

But, the option is totally OUT as a base offense because they're paying this guy too much money to run an option offense long term.

Even if you could win 10 games a year doing it, how long will Tebow last running 250 times a season and taking 350-400 hits?


Doesn't matter if he's a "tough guy who can take a hit." Doesn't matter if he can slide or go out of bounds to avoid the hit MOST of the time. It's just an inevitable matter of statistics. The more you run the sooner you will get hurt and the shorter your career will last. NO exceptions.

Drew Brees gets hit about 6 times a game. He's been sacked 45 times in the last 2 seasons; less than 1.5 per game.

Is there any reason Brees can't last until he's 40 (another 8 years) if he's only going to be hit 6 times a game? NO!

And that gives the New Orleans Saints another EIGHT tries to win the SB with Brees BEFORE they have to replace him. Then it makes economic sense to commit $15 million a year under the salary cap to Brees.

Unless Tebow learns to stay in the pocket where he's protected MOST of the time he just won't last in the NFL and Elway will use the #1 pick of next year's draft to get a QB. :ranger:

[NightTerror218]

You have to distinguish between THIS year and next. THIS year they want to win as much as possible to establish a winning attitude in Denver.

But, it will ALL depend on whether Elway thinks Tebow will ever be an elite passing QB.

Because running the option couldn't be LESS RELEVANT to the Broncos long-term success. You simply don't want your $9+ million QB running 10-15 times a game.

Flat doesn't matter how many games you could win. He just won't last. Period. :coffee:

If Tebow is going to be the Franchise QB next season then he has to be able to stand in the pocket MOST of the time and deliver the ball on time and on target. There can be designed roll-outs. He can run on occasion when the play breaks down. He can still occasionally make a play with his feet.

But, the option is totally OUT as a base offense because they're paying this guy too much money to run an option offense long term.

Even if you could win 10 games a year doing it, how long will Tebow last running 250 times a season and taking 350-400 hits?


Doesn't matter if he's a "tough guy who can take a hit." Doesn't matter if he can slide or go out of bounds to avoid the hit MOST of the time. It's just an inevitable matter of statistics. The more you run the sooner you will get hurt and the shorter your career will last. NO exceptions.

Drew Brees gets hit about 6 times a game. He's been sacked 45 times in the last 2 seasons; less than 1.5 per game.

Is there any reason Brees can't last until he's 40 (another 8 years) if he's only going to be hit 6 times a game? NO!

And that gives the New Orleans Saints another EIGHT tries to win the SB with Brees BEFORE they have to replace him. Then it makes economic sense to commit $15 million a year under the salary cap to Brees.

Unless Tebow learns to stay in the pocket where he's protected MOST of the time he just won't last in the NFL and Elway will use the #1 pick of next year's draft to get a QB. :ranger:

The flaw in your rant is that TT is 250 lbs? And he delivers a hit like a TE would rather then being blind sided. Look at Vick he takes the same amount of hits TT does. He is also smaller and quicker. TT has the size to resist more hits (not a lot) but also like a physical football game and likes to deliver the hits like a FB rather then taking them. But these days he has a lot of protection as a QB that he certain protection behind the line of scrimmage that most FB dont have.

It doesn't matter what he is being paid, he is being paid to play and win and he is doing that. It may not be the longest lasting career but it works for the 4-5 Broncos who are 3-1 in last 4 games.

Winning is what matters and we are doing that with a great ground game right now. IF we are run first team then he wont need to be in pocket most of time and pass. We are in a passing league and this heavy run team is eating up defenses. Tonight we will know how well it will work against better teams.

[G_Money]

Exactly. Its why those who think the ONLY problem people have with tim's passing, is his motion. Its not. Its everything about his throwing the ball that is off. It not just his horrible release point, because Rivers has horrible throw motion, but is accurate (although having an off season). Marino had good mechanics and cannon arm, and DEADLY accurate. Tebow doesnt have either. His mechanics, that are MUCH more than just his arm motion, are wayyyyyy off. Soooooo much so that he will NEVER be an accurate passer. He is more than just inaccurate, hes just a flat out BAD thrower.....period. So this concept of to just let Tebow be Tebow, is just wrong. So its NOT just his "funky" throwing motion that those in the know, are criticizing. Its MUCHMUCH more.

I agree, it's everything about his throwing motion. For me it started with his retardedly inbred footwork, which gives him very little prayer currently of being consistent down the field.

But I don't think it's uncorrectable. His weird throwing motion will always look bad, but it can Be Rivers-bad or McNair-bad and still be effective and accurate.

He has to understand how to throw timing routes and how to get the ball there accurately. I don't WANT him throwing timing routes now because he'll probably miss by so much he'll be getting pick-sixed all over the place.

I agree with what the Broncos are doing so far: accentuate the positive things he can CAN do, limit the damage he can do when you ask him to do things he's NOT capable of, and work to improve the number of positive things he can do over time.

Maybe he's a lost cause, but I'm not willing to sign off on that yet. Tonight should be a fun trial by fire to watch, because the Jets D is pissed off, and better than the Raiders or Chiefs. And their coach is a defensive genius who hates being embarrassed.

How the Broncos do and how Tebow responds in the weeks ahead will say a lot about whether we're gonna take the longshot bet on making a winner and a football player into a legit NFL quarterback.

~G

[wayninja]

but what is your opinion on the Kool aid issue?

I prefer mine without arsenic.

[G_Money]

Doesn't matter if he's a "tough guy who can take a hit." Doesn't matter if he can slide or go out of bounds to avoid the hit MOST of the time. It's just an inevitable matter of statistics. The more you run the sooner you will get hurt and the shorter your career will last. NO exceptions.

Drew Brees gets hit about 6 times a game. He's been sacked 45 times in the last 2 seasons; less than 1.5 per game.

Is there any reason Brees can't last until he's 40 (another 8 years) if he's only going to be hit 6 times a game? NO!

And that gives the New Orleans Saints another EIGHT tries to win the SB with Brees BEFORE they have to replace him. Then it makes economic sense to commit $15 million a year under the salary cap to Brees.

Carson Palmer blew his knee out in the pocket. Ditto Tom Brady. Brees destroyed his shoulder on the last game of the season against us - if it had been the first game, he'd have missed the season. Peyton Manning is gonna lose his career to neck injuries. Steve Young and Troy Aikman had to cut their careers short due to concussions.

It's not just the Randall Cunninghams and Michael Vicks of the world who get injured.

If running cuts Tims career down from 15 years to 10, then I would think the Broncos would take 10 years of good QB play (assuming Tim gets there) and then move on. So far they've gotten 4 years out of Griese, 3 and a half out of Plummer, 2 and a half out of Cutler and 2+ out of Orton.

10 years would be a marathon performance compared to the post Elway years. Nothing to sneer at.

~G

[Cugel]

The flaw in your rant is that TT is 250 lbs? And he delivers a hit like a TE would rather then being blind sided. Look at Vick he takes the same amount of hits TT does. He is also smaller and quicker. TT has the size to resist more hits (not a lot) but also like a physical football game and likes to deliver the hits like a FB rather then taking them. But these days he has a lot of protection as a QB that he certain protection behind the line of scrimmage that most FB dont have.

It doesn't matter what he is being paid, he is being paid to play and win and he is doing that. It may not be the longest lasting career but it works for the 4-5 Broncos who are 3-1 in last 4 games.

Winning is what matters and we are doing that with a great ground game right now. IF we are run first team then he wont need to be in pocket most of time and pass. We are in a passing league and this heavy run team is eating up defenses. Tonight we will know how well it will work against better teams.

Everything you say here is FLAT WRONG! :ranger:

It just doesn't matter if Tebow is 235 (not 250) and "hits like a truck."

It doesn't matter if Tebow is a "tough guy" who can take a hit.

It doesn't matter because it is a simple law of statistics that you WILL get hurt if you run.

Why do you think they pay running backs $1-2 million, maybe $3-5 million for the best in the league, not $10+ million?

You're like the typical fan who thinks "it's all about winning." WRONG! DEAD AND ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

This is a BUSINESS and that business is worth $1.1 BILLION. And the business model is simply this:

The NFL owners got together back in the 1980s and decided they wanted a passing league. That would boost the value of their franchises. It worked beyond their wildest expectations.

Pat Bowlen's franchise went from $87 million to $1.1 billion in value.

They changed the passing rules to prevent defenses from hitting WRs or touching them more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.

And then more recently, they reacted to the spate of QB injuries by adding a TON of rules to protect the QB in the pocket. The starting QB is the franchise player of every team.

The economic model is:

Pick a franchise pocket passing QB. Pay this guy $9+ million a year.

If he's the right guy and you build a sufficiently good team around him now you have hopefully 10-15 chances to go to a SB and win before he retires and you have to find a new QB. But, this can work ONLY if he LASTS 10-15 years! And he can only last if he doesn't take extra hits. You have to keep him in the pocket and MINIMIZE the number of hits he takes. THEN he can hopefully last for a decade or more.

This doesn't mean he can NEVER run, just that he can't run by DESIGN very often.

The economics of the situation is that it is ONLY worth paying a QB that much IF you expect him to last.


Because otherwise you are right back to spending a 1st round pick on a QB and training him for 3 seasons until (hopefully) he's ready to lead the team to a SB.

And the grim meat-hook reality is that a running QB is NOT going to last any more than a RB lasts in the NFL.

Tebow is NOT as tough as a RB. He's a big tough guy for a QB!

The rule in the NFL is "Troy Polomalu is bigger and faster than you! And he hits harder. If you want to stay healthy stay away from that guy." Tebow is not some "magic" player who will never get hurt because he's "tough." I never get used to the idiots who think otherwise. What planet are they living on? :confused:

Mark my words. Tebow will be GONE next season unless he learns to be an effective pocket-passing QB. And none of the nonsense from the Teboners is going to affect Elway in the slightest. :ranger:

[Cugel]

Carson Palmer blew his knee out in the pocket. Ditto Tom Brady. Brees destroyed his shoulder on the last game of the season against us - if it had been the first game, he'd have missed the season. Peyton Manning is gonna lose his career to neck injuries. Steve Young and Troy Aikman had to cut their careers short due to concussions.

It's not just the Randall Cunninghams and Michael Vicks of the world who get injured.

If running cuts Tims career down from 15 years to 10, then I would think the Broncos would take 10 years of good QB play (assuming Tim gets there) and then move on. So far they've gotten 4 years out of Griese, 3 and a half out of Plummer, 2 and a half out of Cutler and 2+ out of Orton.

10 years would be a marathon performance compared to the post Elway years. Nothing to sneer at.~G



Do RBs last for 10 years in the NFL? Did Terrell Davis or Jamal Lewis, two who rushed for 2000 yards? It's RARE for a RB to last 10 years and still be at all the same back he was in his prime. LT is a perfect example.

So, NO! The Broncos would NOT be satisfied with "cutting Tebow's career down" because it's NOT 15 years to 10. It's more like 15 years to maybe 5 or 6! Just like any other RB!

But, realistically the question doesn't even arise. Elway won't even consider this idiotic argument that he ought to commit the Broncos future (and his with the team) to an OPTION OFFENSE! He wants an elite passing QB because as he constantly says over and over "I've never seen a QB win the SB who wasn't [a pocket passing QB]."

And fans who argue otherwise simply don't understand NFL economics!

Of COURSE QBs can get hurt standing in the pocket. BUT the league has done everything it can to PREVENT that! All the rules are designed to protect the QB in the pocket!

The last thing a team needs is to add EXTRA risk of injury by having their QB run all the time!

It would only make economic sense to utilize an option offense long term IF Tebow were earning about $3-4 million a year, not $9+ and you had two other running QBs just like him. Then you could rotate them like RBs. And if one went down you'd have another ready to go.

NO NFL team has or ever will have a system like that! Not as long as they are paying their starting QB around $10+ million a year!

[NightTerror218]

Everything you say here is FLAT WRONG! :ranger:

It just doesn't matter if Tebow is 235 (not 250) and "hits like a truck."

It doesn't matter if Tebow is a "tough guy" who can take a hit.

It doesn't matter because it is a simple law of statistics that you WILL get hurt if you run.

Why do you think they pay running backs $1-2 million, maybe $3-5 million for the best in the league, not $10+ million?

You're like the typical fan who thinks "it's all about winning." WRONG! DEAD AND ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

This is a BUSINESS and that business is worth $1.1 BILLION. And the business model is simply this:

The NFL owners got together back in the 1980s and decided they wanted a passing league. That would boost the value of their franchises. It worked beyond their wildest expectations.

Pat Bowlen's franchise went from $87 million to $1.1 billion in value.

They changed the passing rules to prevent defenses from hitting WRs or touching them more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.

And then more recently, they reacted to the spate of QB injuries by adding a TON of rules to protect the QB in the pocket. The starting QB is the franchise player of every team.

The economic model is:

Pick a franchise pocket passing QB. Pay this guy $9+ million a year.

If he's the right guy and you build a sufficiently good team around him now you have hopefully 10-15 chances to go to a SB and win before he retires and you have to find a new QB. But, this can work ONLY if he LASTS 10-15 years! And he can only last if he doesn't take extra hits. You have to keep him in the pocket and MINIMIZE the number of hits he takes. THEN he can hopefully last for a decade or more.

This doesn't mean he can NEVER run, just that he can't run by DESIGN very often.

The economics of the situation is that it is ONLY worth paying a QB that much IF you expect him to last.


Because otherwise you are right back to spending a 1st round pick on a QB and training him for 3 seasons until (hopefully) he's ready to lead the team to a SB.

And the grim meat-hook reality is that a running QB is NOT going to last any more than a RB lasts in the NFL.

Tebow is NOT as tough as a RB. He's a big tough guy for a QB!

The rule in the NFL is "Troy Polomalu is bigger and faster than you! And he hits harder. If you want to stay healthy stay away from that guy." Tebow is not some "magic" player who will never get hurt because he's "tough." I never get used to the idiots who think otherwise. What planet are they living on? :confused:

Mark my words. Tebow will be GONE next season unless he learns to be an effective pocket-passing QB. And none of the nonsense from the Teboners is going to affect Elway in the slightest. :ranger:


Well i would have to say, I am not wrong. An opinion can not be wrong, but in this case you are passing your opinion over as a fact like always. And yet an a$$ about it.

Tebow is not paid $9 mill a year. It is over his contract span. RB are paid less. More QBs are lost due to hits in the pocket then scrambles....FACT because not many scramble. Tebow was getting blind side hits several times a game in miami and detroit when sitting in pocket. When running option he was hit maybe once. Tebow will not be injured like you said because he is a QB running not a RB. He can slide and go out of bounds. He only ran 9 times last week, how many times was he hit? He was sacked 1 time. How many hits did Cassell take before he went out with head injure from sitting in the pocket?

The point NFL is a business yes it is, but it gets more money by winning then losing. If I am dead wrong about football is about winning, then what is it about?

You have eaten so much crow in the last 2 weekends, do you really want to keep going attacking TT and complaining when we win? That is seriously all you do. If you were a REAL DENVER BRONCO fan you would be happy with the team and the wins. But no you never are. You complain and bash TT every post you put on here. I have never see you stand behind this team. You were claiming we would have 2 wins and TT would never win a game.

His accuracy does need to improve and on some cases so do the hands of our WRs.

[Northman]

Who cares about the fanatics?

Some do, especially the way they infest the forum like cockroaches.


I don't know how you just can't like the kid. His heart, passion, and drive for the game is great. And more importantly, the team for whatever reason, plays better with him around.I, like a lot of people do like him, not sure where your going with that.


Don't know if he is the answer, but I am a fan regardless of the baggage that comes with him.Im a fan, just dont like the baggage and think watching him and the Broncos would be a 10x better without the baggage. Just a difference of an opinion between you and i.

[BroncoNut]

Some do, especially the way they infest the forum like cockroaches.

I, like a lot of people do like him, not sure where your going with that.

Im a fan, just dont like the baggage and think watching him and the Broncos would be a 10x better without the baggage. Just a difference of an opinion between you and i.

i tend to agree with this North. Mike, just what is it that you are trying to say?

[Bullgator]

Spoken like an ignorant fan who is NOT signing the checks!

Do RBs last for 10 years in the NFL? Did Terrell Davis or Jamal Lewis, two who rushed for 2000 yards? It's RARE for a RB to last 10 years and still be at all the same back he was in his prime. LT is a perfect example.

So, NO! The Broncos would NOT be satisfied with "cutting Tebow's career down" because it's NOT 15 years to 10. It's more like 15 years to maybe 5 or 6! Just like any other RB!

But, realistically the question doesn't even arise. Elway won't even consider this idiotic argument that he ought to commit the Broncos future (and his with the team) to an OPTION OFFENSE! He wants an elite passing QB because as he constantly says over and over "I've never seen a QB win the SB who wasn't [a pocket passing QB]."

And fans who argue otherwise simply don't understand NFL economics!

Of COURSE QBs can get hurt standing in the pocket. BUT the league has done everything it can to PREVENT that! All the rules are designed to protect the QB in the pocket!

The last thing a team needs is to add EXTRA risk of injury by having their QB run all the time!

It would only make economic sense to utilize an option offense long term IF Tebow were earning about $3-4 million a year, not $9+ and you had two other running QBs just like him. Then you could rotate them like RBs. And if one went down you'd have another ready to go.

NO NFL team has or ever will have a system like that! Not as long as they are paying their starting QB around $10+ million a year!

WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT 10 YEARS DOOD! HOW ABOUT 1 GOOD YEAR? screw 10 years. Play as best as you can now and then be disapointed that he only played 6... BUT WIN!

[vhatever]

tebow has been perfect this game so far through the 1st quarter. AGAIN a dropped pass. the majority of Tebows incompletes over the past 3 games have been dropped.

[wayninja]

tebow has been perfect this game so far through the 1st quarter. AGAIN a dropped pass. the majority of Tebows incompletes over the past 3 games have been dropped.

I agree that Tebow was solid within the system they are asking him to run, but please don't deny that his passing needs to get better.

[Lancane]

I agree that Tebow was solid within the system they are asking him to run, but please don't deny that his passing needs to get better.

I don't think anyone's denying that Ninja, I think the one hopeful prospect about this situation is that if he can develop into a moderately solid passer, with his clutch ability and drive, he might damn well turn into a good quarterback.

[I Eat Staples]

I don't think anyone's denying that Ninja, I think the one hopeful prospect about this situation is that if he can develop into a moderately solid passer, with his clutch ability and drive, he might damn well turn into a good quarterback.

If he can develop into a decent passer, he will be an amazing player. He'd be nearly impossible to defend.

That's a really big if, but I've seen enough that I'm willing to invest in this kid. You just can't pass up an opportunity like this. He's a special one.

[TXBRONC]

Carson Palmer blew his knee out in the pocket. Ditto Tom Brady. Brees destroyed his shoulder on the last game of the season against us - if it had been the first game, he'd have missed the season. Peyton Manning is gonna lose his career to neck injuries. Steve Young and Troy Aikman had to cut their careers short due to concussions.

It's not just the Randall Cunninghams and Michael Vicks of the world who get injured.

If running cuts Tims career down from 15 years to 10, then I would think the Broncos would take 10 years of good QB play (assuming Tim gets there) and then move on. So far they've gotten 4 years out of Griese, 3 and a half out of Plummer, 2 and a half out of Cutler and 2+ out of Orton.

10 years would be a marathon performance compared to the post Elway years. Nothing to sneer at.

~G

I guess I'm selfish because I would hate for Tebow's career to be cut short because his body was beat to hell in 10 years.

[atwater27]

:welcome:

Bull.... You do realize that through training camp, preseason practice and all through this season practices, Denver's coaches have seen Tebow and how he plays, right? If you understand that concept than you understand that what they see in practice against our own defense determines who they use and what results you will get with them. There is a reason your boy is not throwing the ball that goes beyond him sucking as a passer in games. It's that he sucks just as bad in practice. Deal with it. Tebow will be exposed like he has never been exposed vs the Jets. Then we can all have a cry and move on.

http://www.dantynan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1240605367-eating-crow.jpg

http://www.dantynan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1240605367-eating-crow.jpg

http://www.dantynan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1240605367-eating-crow.jpg

[wayninja]

If he can develop into a decent passer, he will be an amazing player. He'd be nearly impossible to defend.

That's a really big if, but I've seen enough that I'm willing to invest in this kid. You just can't pass up an opportunity like this. He's a special one.

This


Not to take away from your post, but this has been basically the most logical analysis of Tebow since day 1. But because he keeps winning, the odds of getting him developed for this true dual thread keep going up. Here's to winning!

:beer:

[Bullgator]

If he can develop into a decent passer, he will be an amazing player. He'd be nearly impossible to defend.

That's a really big if, but I've seen enough that I'm willing to invest in this kid. You just can't pass up an opportunity like this. He's a special one.

Maybe now some are starting to see why claimed he could change the position... of course all that is based on IF he can pass effectively... hes got alot of work to do in that department... but IF he can pass I still believe that he could be one of the greatest ever.

If he cant improve his passing then he will just be a clutch gimmick QB with only moderate success.

lets hope for the former.

[Bullgator]

http://www.dantynan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1240605367-eating-crow.jpg

http://www.dantynan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1240605367-eating-crow.jpg

http://www.dantynan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/1240605367-eating-crow.jpg

You manned up atwater... thats class man.

Here is to the Denver Broncos getting back to glory :beer:

[wayninja]

Maybe now some are starting to see why claimed he could change the position... of course all that is based on IF he can pass effectively... hes got alot of work to do in that department... but IF he can pass I still believe that he could be one of the greatest ever.

If he cant improve his passing then he will just be a clutch gimmick QB with only moderate success.

lets hope for the former.

Yes. IF. IF.

Not sure if his lord and savior saved him again tonight, but he was saved by our defense. Again. Honestly, I don't really care as long as we keep winning, but please don't try to use tonight performance as proof of your convictions. This was a defensive win with Tebow doing just enough to clinch it.

That's commendable, but not enough to win without the other side doing more than their fair share.

**** that pick 6 felt good.

[NorCalBronco7]

You manned up atwater... thats class man.

Here is to the Denver Broncos getting back to glory :beer:

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! !!

If anybody has set the bar for Tebow at the most ridiculous level, its you Bull. :lol:

Yet, Im starting to believe....maybe not MJ status, but HOPEFULLY approaching NEAR that......;)

[BroncoStud]

Funny how so many on here were ready to throw Tebow off a the closest bridge not only in the preseason but after his first start. Perhaps it's time to exercise patience with the guy.

I think Denver would be STUPID, and I mean STUPID to let this guy walk away and draft a chump like Landry Jones or Matt Barkely in the draft.

All Tebow needs to do is improve somewhat as a passer and continue to learn the game. I think that Bull and others have been overboard with their quest to validate Tebow, and I said a long time ago that Tebow would have the chance to validate himself - and so far he has.

The guy is money when it matters and I sincerely hope that we draft defense early in 2012, bring in more RBs, draft a mobile QB to back up Tebow, and roll with this system and this QB into the forseeable future.

I will be very happy if Tebow is the guy going into 2012. He's just an inspiring player. I didn't like the fact we gave up so much to move ahead and draft him when we did it, but now it's looking like McDaniels knew what he was doing. Bring Tebow along slowly and one day explode him onto the NFL. Well Fox is taking it a much deeper and actually building an offense for him.

Props to Fox, props to Tebow.

[sneakers]

DOn't drink the Koala ID.