John Fox; "Whatever the hell it takes"

[dogfish]

wow. . . no coach speak here!


"After the loss to Detroit (a 45-10 blowout), we decided if Tim is going to be our guy, we can't do that other crap," Fox said. "We had to tweak it."


"Do whatever the hell it takes," he laughed. "I mean, what the hell? You don't get points for style in this league. Let me tell you something: My man is really good in this offense. You know what I mean?

"If we were trying to run a regular offense, he'd be screwed."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824253ac/article/smart-like-a-fox-broncos-coach-adapts-to-tebows-strengths

:shocked:


i'm trying to imagine mike shenanigans or bill belichick admitting that their QB would be screwed if they ran a regular offense-- and failing utterly. . .

[lgenf]

If/when we win tomorrow night there will be NOTHING, NOTHING ELSE talked about on ESPN all day Friday

[MasterShake]

If/when we win tomorrow night there will be NOTHING, NOTHING ELSE talked about on ESPN all day Friday

IF we win tomorrow, definitely going to have to catch Mike and Mike in the morning to hear him make excuses!:lol:

[MasterShake]

Pretty cool, if you watch the video in the article you hear Fox compliment Tebow on the throw he made into the dirt. Turns out he "beached it" on purpose to avoid a turnover.

[Npba900]

I find it interesting that no one has asked Fox about the possibility of your #1 drafted QB who you are paying $10's of millions of dollars of any worries of Tebow actually getting injured because when you play to Tim's strength's it means your QB will run the ball often!

Think about it, Tebow running the ball off an option or pulling the ball down to take off running will continue to open the possibility of leg injuries and concussions.

Defenses won't take to kindly to Tebow embarassing them every Sunday with his "Bobby Douglas - 1969 Chicago Bears QB running style/running ability; and will be licking their chops even to the degree of getting heavily "Fined" to knock the snot out of Tebow.

Something to ponder right!

[silkamilkamonico]

i'm trying to imagine mike shenanigans or bill belichick admitting that their QB would be screwed if they ran a regular offense-- and failing utterly. . .

I think that is very telling. Will be interesting to see which direction they go next year, and I do think how this season plays out will determine it.

[Tned]

I find it interesting that no one has asked Fox about the possibility of your #1 drafted QB who you are paying $10's of millions of dollars of any worries of Tebow actually getting injured because when you play to Tim's strength's it means your QB will run the ball often!

Think about it, Tebow running the ball off an option or pulling the ball down to take off running will continue to open the possibility of leg injuries and concussions.

Defenses won't take to kindly to Tebow embarassing them every Sunday with his "Bobby Douglas - 1969 Chicago Bears QB running style/running ability; and will be licking their chops even to the degree of getting heavily "Fined" to knock the snot out of Tebow.

Something to ponder right!

Maybe because they aren't paying him 10's of millions of dollars.

[I Eat Staples]

I like Fox, he deserves more credit than he gets. How many of you thought we'd be 4-5 at this point, especially with how bad Tebow has played?

Fox is really making the most of a team lacking in talent. I see good things for us in a few years.

[lgenf]

Maybe because they aren't paying him 10's of millions of dollars.

Either that or when he runs he's actually getting hit with less force then when he stands back there in the pocket and guys get to tee off on Tebow

[Buff]

All we're trying to do is win a mother****ing game.

[dogfish]

All we're trying to do is win a mother****ing game.

thanks, josh. . .

but actually, now we're trying to win the mother****ing games. . . .

[BroncoWave]

I like Fox, he deserves more credit than he gets. How many of you thought we'd be 4-5 at this point, especially with how bad Tebow has played?

Fox is really making the most of a team lacking in talent. I see good things for us in a few years.

I'm even more impressed with how he has improved the defense. Turned it from what was a complete laughing stock last season to a legitimate unit.

[I Eat Staples]

I'm even more impressed with how he has improved the defense. Turned it from what was a complete laughing stock last season to a legitimate unit.

I still don't think we have a good defense, but when you take a look at our personnel and see how lacking we are defensively, you have to be impressed that Fox has been able to get these guys to play well in several games.

[BroncoWave]

I still don't think we have a good defense, but when you take a look at our personnel and see how lacking we are defensively, you have to be impressed that Fox has been able to get these guys to play well in several games.

The additions of Miller and Bunkley certainly helped and Allen seems to be legit as a DC. If we can keep that core around for a while I like where the defense is headed.

[I Eat Staples]

The additions of Miller and Bunkley certainly helped and Allen seems to be legit as a DC. If we can keep that core around for a while I like where the defense is headed.

Bunkley's been far more productive than I expected. He doesn't do much against the pass but he's been a great run stuffer. Miller is one of the most exciting defensive players in the league.

I think with two more drafts and a few FA acquisitions we'll be at the top of the AFC West.

[weazel]

wow. . . no coach speak here!





http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824253ac/article/smart-like-a-fox-broncos-coach-adapts-to-tebows-strengths

:shocked:


i'm trying to imagine mike shenanigans or bill belichick admitting that their QB would be screwed if they ran a regular offense-- and failing utterly. . .

is he wrong? lol

I hope he just does well enough that we can trade him for anything in the off season or at the draft

[Npba900]

Maybe because they aren't paying him 10's of millions of dollars.

Well with incentives, etc., Tebow stands to make $11-33 million. However, the point remains now that we know Fox has installed a playing to Tebow's strength offense or a "Spread-Read-Option".

This scheme will make Tebow more susceptible to injuries as well as taking a wear n tear pounding from NFL defenses. In all the euphoria no one has considered the injury factor to Tebow. Its a high risk reward that doesn't bode well for long-term return on your investment at the QB position.

If this is the scheme Fox has decided to adopt of allowing your QB to take unsustainable punishment and vicious hits; then Tebow is the short term solution. How short? who knows. However, right now Tebow is just one hit away from either "Concussion City" or suffering leg injuries. Tim maybe 6-3 - 235 lb's, but his body won't be able to put up with the pounding/wear and tear defenses will bring to bear on Tebow.

[weazel]

Well with incentives, etc., Tebow stands to make $11-33 million. However, the point remains now that we know Fox has installed a playing to Tebow's strength offense or a "Spread-Read-Option".

This scheme will make Tebow more susceptible to injuries as well as taking a wear n tear pounding from NFL defenses. In all the euphoria no one has considered the injury factor to Tebow. Its a high risk reward that doesn't bode well for long-term return on your investment at the QB position.

If this is the scheme Fox has decided to adopt of allowing your QB to take unsustainable punishment and vicious hits; then Tebow is the short term solution. How short? who knows. However, right now Tebow is just one hit away from either "Concussion City" or suffering leg injuries. Tim maybe 6-3 - 235 lb's, but his body won't be able to put up with the pounding/wear and tear defenses will bring to bear on Tebow.

so is every player that steps on the field

[vhatever]

I think fox and maybe elway need to go at this point. These guys do more to hurt this team every time they open their mouth.

Fox doesn't know what he's doing. Tebow is winning games despite Fox trying to do his best to lose them. Elway keeps talking out of two sides of his face and I don't think he know the least about running a football team on the business side of things. This guy was firmly behind orton who has done nothing but been a loser for this team, then with tebow winning nearl every game he's played, he's still "week to week". Fox says he'd be "screwed" in a regular offense. So WTF offense was mcdaniels running when tebow was breaking records rushing and doing extremely well passing for a rookie QB?


This is nothing more than fox and elway trying to buld the case "this team is entirely unsalvagable and we need a decade or more to rebuild it -- bare with us, folks".

I'm throwing the BS flag. Anyone who has actually been FOLLOWING the comments and exchanges of fox/elways this season would have to do the same. These guys do not care about the team, only their careers and "legacy" in elways case.

[Npba900]

so is every player that steps on the field

Not if you're a QB who is playing within an offensive scheme that plays from the pocket!

QB's are taking the the hits and punishment Tebow is currently taking/enduring. You can't ignore or over look this fact.

[Buff]

wow. . . no coach speak here!





http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824253ac/article/smart-like-a-fox-broncos-coach-adapts-to-tebows-strengths

:shocked:


i'm trying to imagine mike shenanigans or bill belichick admitting that their QB would be screwed if they ran a regular offense-- and failing utterly. . .

Carol posted this article yesterday... As she does all Broncos articles the second they hit the press.

But I digress... I thought it was a great article. I loved the insight. However, in the back of my head I was thinking that he is being way too forthcoming mid-season. Not that he's saying anything earth shattering - but talking about the major shift in game planning two weeks ago probably makes it easier to prepare for us... And even if he's telling the truth, he probably didn't need to be so candid about Timmy's abilities.

[slim]

Not if you're a QB who is playing within an offensive scheme that plays from the pocket!

QB's are taking the the hits and punishment Tebow is currently taking/enduring. You can't ignore or over look this fact.

Good point.

It's a good thing Cassel was playing from the pocket...or he would probably be on IR right now.

[weazel]

Not if you're a QB who is playing within an offensive scheme that plays from the pocket!

QB's are taking the the hits and punishment Tebow is currently taking/enduring. You can't ignore or over look this fact.

WTF? right... we've never seen a QB get hurt when staying in the pocket...
tell that to this guy

http://www.famouswhy.com/pictures/people/joe_theisman.jpg

or maybe this guy

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~lcabarcos3/identity/Images/Peyton-Manning.jpg

[slim]

Carol posted this article yesterday... As she does all Broncos articles the second they hit the press.

But I digress... I thought it was a great article. I loved the insight. However, in the back of my head I was thinking that he is being way too forthcoming mid-season. Not that he's saying anything earth shattering - but talking about the major shift in game planning two weeks ago probably makes it easier to prepare for us... And even if he's telling the truth, he probably didn't need to be so candid about Timmy's abilities.

What are you suggesting?

That he is sandbagging and plans to surprise the jets or something a little more sinister?

[Buff]

What are you suggesting?

That he is sandbagging and plans to surprise the jets or something a little more sinister?

No, I don't think he's that clever...

All things being equal I'd prefer that interview didn't come out 2 days before the Jets game in the middle of the season. All I know is that it probably didn't make their game planning efforts more difficult and it probably didn't make Tebow feel great that his coach announcing his shortcomings to the world (even if they are pretty clear to see).

Not a huge deal... And it was refreshing to get that kind of midseason access after a couple years of Hoody McSecrecy... But there is probably a happy medium in there somewhere.

[vhatever]

I'm still waiting to hear what offense the broncos were running last year with tebow? You know, before we picked up the coach with the worst record in the NFL to coach our struggling team, a genius move.

[Dapper Dan]

I saw this on Yahoo. Oddly enough, about 30% of the comments had to do with religion and how 'gay' Tebow is. But anyway.

I didn't see anything too bad about it. I don't think Manning or Brady could win much in a run heavy offense. They have to throw 30 or more times and get in a rhythm. Just the same, Denver can't win if Tebow throws it 30 times. Let's just run the ball and slowly let our passing game progress.

[slim]

No, I don't think he's that clever...

All things being equal I'd prefer that interview didn't come out 2 days before the Jets game in the middle of the season. All I know is that it probably didn't make their game planning efforts more difficult and it probably didn't make Tebow feel great that his coach announcing his shortcomings to the world (even if they are pretty clear to see).

Not a huge deal... And it was refreshing to get that kind of midseason access after a couple years of Hoody McSecrecy... But there is probably a happy medium in there somewhere.

Yeah, I think he should probably keep his mouth shut (I have thought this most of the year about him).

But I doubt he told the Jets anything they don't already know. Besides, Rex is so full of himself, I doubt he listens to anyone else anyway.

[catfish]

Well with incentives, etc., Tebow stands to make $11-33 million. However, the point remains now that we know Fox has installed a playing to Tebow's strength offense or a "Spread-Read-Option".

This scheme will make Tebow more susceptible to injuries as well as taking a wear n tear pounding from NFL defenses. In all the euphoria no one has considered the injury factor to Tebow. Its a high risk reward that doesn't bode well for long-term return on your investment at the QB position.

If this is the scheme Fox has decided to adopt of allowing your QB to take unsustainable punishment and vicious hits; then Tebow is the short term solution. How short? who knows. However, right now Tebow is just one hit away from either "Concussion City" or suffering leg injuries. Tim maybe 6-3 - 235 lb's, but his body won't be able to put up with the pounding/wear and tear defenses will bring to bear on Tebow.

Haven't Stafford, Bradford,Romo, Cassel, Vick,Kolb,Campbell,Schaub and roethlisburger been hurt this year? QB is a dangerous position inside or outside the pocket, I don't think you can argue is is more dangerous either way

[BroncoStud]

I saw we keep the zone-read and draft some RB's and defense, along with a good mobile QB to back up Tebow. It would be interesting to see how well this offense stacks up with a consistent running attack and Tebow's passing progression in a few years.

With everyone running spread offenses and the rules bent towards passing the football, an offense like this, once well-oiled, would be difficult to gameplan for, and if we got stout enough on defense the Broncos could REALLY to a tough matchup for softer teams. It's a mentality, and I like it.

We may never know, but right now I would be for going with this gameplan full-time and mastering it. If Paul Johnson can win with the triple-option, why can't the Broncos win with the zone-read?

All I ever hear is that "it won't work" blah, blah... Any good offensive plan will work if you have the players and the logistics down.

[Dzone]

How about Steve Young on ESPN today saying the Broncos are doing Tebow a disservice by running the option and not throwing more. Come on. Tebow gets better by playing. Period.

[wayninja]

Yeah, some of these analysts act like he won't throw the ball at all in this offense, or that somehow throwing 30-40 times per game is somehow 5000% more effective for growing a QB than throwing 10-15 times.

It's just like politics, if your opinion is reasonable, it's not entertaining enough and it's not given any coverage.

[G_Money]

I saw we keep the zone-read and draft some RB's and defense, along with a good mobile QB to back up Tebow. It would be interesting to see how well this offense stacks up with a consistent running attack and Tebow's passing progression in a few years.

With everyone running spread offenses and the rules bent towards passing the football, an offense like this, once well-oiled, would be difficult to gameplan for, and if we got stout enough on defense the Broncos could REALLY to a tough matchup for softer teams. It's a mentality, and I like it.

We may never know, but right now I would be for going with this gameplan full-time and mastering it. If Paul Johnson can win with the triple-option, why can't the Broncos win with the zone-read?

All I ever hear is that "it won't work" blah, blah... Any good offensive plan will work if you have the players and the logistics down.

Pretty much.

I hear Revis and co say you could only run this system with the fastest offensive players known to man, because otherwise the opposition is just too fast to allow the system to work.

Air Force and Navy keep up with MUCH faster teams and more talented teams than themselves with versions of this sort of offense. It's based on precision and timing - much like a precision passing game. It puts pressure on a defense to always be disciplined and keep to your assignments, while making it easier in the passing game (if one has a QB who can complete passes) thanks to a dearth of defenders down the field.

The Broncos had their best success with a precision, ZBS running game. Maybe this offense really can't be run successfully in the pros, but I'm interested to see if we actually can. And if it keeps Tebow on the field long enough to figure out how to throw so we don't HAVE to run so much of this offense, all the better.

I really don't want to drop a first-round pick on a QB if we don't have to - even if that means adopting a running-QB motif, picking up a backup like Chandler Harnish late in the draft (or as a UDFA) who can run an offense like this, and seeing where it takes us.

I'm down for a 2 year experiment while we build the rest of the team. Elway might not be, and a lot of people apparently think there's no way that a "true" QB like John goes with this Frankenstein of an offensive experiment. Teboe can't be his guy because Tebow can't throw and John knows the importance of throwing, or so the story goes.

I wonder.

Because John won a Super Bowl in which he threw for 123 yards and a pick, only heaving up 22 passes total. We won because of defense, timely contributions from the QB, and 39 rushes from an unstoppable rushing attack. He's well aware of its worth.

Tebow has that thing that Elway had, that "we're never out of it" thing even when he's had a horrible game. John's defenses would just try to keep it close when Elway was having one of his terrible days, knowing that 55 minutes of Horrible John was likely to turn into 5 minutes of Amazing John if they were within a score. He didn't lead the universe in comebacks for no reason.

I do wonder whether Elway values that un-named virtue, that will to win that can carry a team to victory, more than he values other things. Of everybody, Elway should know how valuable it can be.

Because it's the one talent that Timmy has as a QB that others can't match, and it might make Elway try to improve his throwing while letting him truck his way to victory next season.

Whatever the hell it takes.

~G

[SoCalImport]

I think Fox was drunk during the interview

[NightTrainLayne]

I listened to Coach Fox on his Sirius segment with Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller last night (Tim Ryan is out for some reason).

Anyways, he said much of the same, but what really stuck out to me, and has for much of this season is how strongly Pat & Tim, and last night Jim Miller stick up for Coach Fox. Of course, those guys are never going to run down a coach after they agree to come on their program, but Pat & Tim always go out of their way to talk about what a great coach "Foxy" is.

Last night, Jim Miller filling in for Tim did the same. The praise always seems to center around "Foxy" putting the players he has in the best position that they have to win. He doesn't care about style points, or what anyone else is going to think about it. . .he just does what is most likely to win.

After Jim Miller going on, Pat Kirwin picked up the mantle and reviewed every single 3rd down call the Broncos made in the first half. Basically, reinforcing Miller's point that "Foxy" doesn't care about how he looks, he just cares about what's going to win that particular ball game. He might not always have the best players, but what he has, he game plans to their strengths.

I haven't followed his career closely enough to really sign off on this myself, but these guys sure are sold on him.

[Agent of Orange]

I like Fox, he deserves more credit than he gets. How many of you thought we'd be 4-5 at this point, especially with how bad Tebow has played?

Fox is really making the most of a team lacking in talent. I see good things for us in a few years.

While Fox has become a lot more likeable recently, the refrain "Orton gives us the best chance to win" is forever etched in the brains of many. Credit to Fox for having the balls to make the change and make it work when he did. But he also might have cost us games by having Orton as the starter in the first place based on how he looked in practice.

[catfish]

While Fox has become a lot more likeable recently, the refrain "Orton gives us the best chance to win" is forever etched in the brains of many. Credit to Fox for having the balls to make the change and make it work when he did. But he also might have cost us games by having Orton as the starter in the first place based on how he looked in practice.

to be fair he was new here and I am sure Orton looked great in a shortened offseason, no one is perfect

[Tned]

Well with incentives, etc., Tebow stands to make $11-33 million. However, the point remains now that we know Fox has installed a playing to Tebow's strength offense or a "Spread-Read-Option".

The $33 million was never considered an achievable number, but more the typical "see what I got my client" agent number. Nearly impossible incentives.

The range between $11 million and $22 million are a series of unlikely to be achieved bonuses. Possible, but unlikely.

He has a couple mil bonus that he's expected to reach that would get him up to the $11 million range for the life of his contract.

In other words, over the life of his contract he will likely make a couple million more than Kyle Orton, the Broncos number three QB, will make this season.

Beyond that, after his $6 million bonus before the season started, Tebow will now make something like the league minimum for the rest of his contract, with the exception of a likely couple million dollar bonus.

Money isn't a factor at this point.


This scheme will make Tebow more susceptible to injuries as well as taking a wear n tear pounding from NFL defenses. In all the euphoria no one has considered the injury factor to Tebow. Its a high risk reward that doesn't bode well for long-term return on your investment at the QB position.

Not sure where you've been, but the "injury factor" has been one of the most discussed topics on BF and elsewhere.


If this is the scheme Fox has decided to adopt of allowing your QB to take unsustainable punishment and vicious hits; then Tebow is the short term solution. How short? who knows. However, right now Tebow is just one hit away from either "Concussion City" or suffering leg injuries. Tim maybe 6-3 - 235 lb's, but his body won't be able to put up with the pounding/wear and tear defenses will bring to bear on Tebow.

He took a lot more severe hits in his sacks than his runs.

[wayninja]

He took a lot more severe hits in his sacks than his runs.


Reminds me of a camping trip where I had severe runs in my sleeping sack.

[Dreadnought]

While Fox has become a lot more likeable recently, the refrain "Orton gives us the best chance to win" is forever etched in the brains of many. Credit to Fox for having the balls to make the change and make it work when he did. But he also might have cost us games by having Orton as the starter in the first place based on how he looked in practice.

As a new coach, and based on the early struggles we saw Tebow had v. The Dolphins and Lions, I think Fox probably made the only call that made sense. I hated it, because I have zero use for Orton as of now, but I understand his thinking at the time. Orton played well in practice, gave all the right answers on the written portion, whatever. Then he went and sucked out loud for his 4.5 games before Fox pulled the plug. He did that at the right time too.

So here we are, and I am stoked to watch a Broncos game like I haven't been for a couple of Years. Whatever we get tomorrow night we can't write the script now! I suspect a few of us could have easily summarized the 31-13 beat down we would have suffered against the Jets with Orton at QB ahead of time, notwithstanding his 275 yards passing :lol:

[nevcraw]

Reminds me of a camping trip where I had severe runs in my sleeping sack.

i hate camping..

[chazoe60]

John Fox is obsessed with Hell.

[Medford Bronco]

I know that I am going to get called on this, but long term the 1940s offense will not work. Sorry you need to throw at least 20-25 times to win the NFL and I dont think Tebow can do that NOW. Maybe in the future. IMHO I would develop this and not throw 8 passes in a game. That is embarassing really. If we throw 8 passes vs the Jets we lose by 21.... KC sucks really bad. Just a small dot in Broncos Nations take. Take it for what its worth. and please dont call my fanhood out. I have been a fan for over 30 years and always will root for us to win, pretty or not. I just want better than this. We still suck with this type of team. The best part of us might be the DEFENSE. Who would have ever thought that.

I want to win a Championship, not strive to go 7-9, which is what we are doing now.

[claymore]

If/when we win tomorrow night there will be NOTHING, NOTHING ELSE talked about on ESPN all day Friday

Hopefully your stocked up on napkins and lotion.

[Dapper Dan]

I know that I am going to get called on this, but long term the 1940s offense will not work. Sorry you need to throw at least 20-25 times to win the NFL and I dont think Tebow can do that NOW. Maybe in the future. IMHO I would develop this and not throw 8 passes in a game. That is embarassing really. If we throw 8 passes vs the Jets we lose by 21.... KC sucks really bad. Just a small dot in Broncos Nations take. Take it for what its worth. and please dont call my fanhood out. I have been a fan for over 30 years and always will root for us to win, pretty or not. I just want better than this. We still suck with this type of team. The best part of us might be the DEFENSE. Who would have ever thought that.

I want to win a Championship, not strive to go 7-9, which is what we are doing now.

I'm with you until the last sentence. I think are championship hopes this season are not that good. I would be happy with 7 or 8 wins.

The thing with the KC game, we didn't have to pass. So we just kept running. If we have to pass, we will. I'm pretty sure the FO said that. Btw, this wasn't aimed at just you. Many are irritated at only 8 pass attempts. But in my opinion, it doesn't matter. Each week is a game by game basis.

[dogfish]

I know that I am going to get called on this, but long term the 1940s offense will not work. Sorry you need to throw at least 20-25 times to win the NFL and I dont think Tebow can do that NOW. Maybe in the future. IMHO I would develop this and not throw 8 passes in a game. That is embarassing really. If we throw 8 passes vs the Jets we lose by 21.... KC sucks really bad. Just a small dot in Broncos Nations take. Take it for what its worth. and please dont call my fanhood out. I have been a fan for over 30 years and always will root for us to win, pretty or not. I just want better than this. We still suck with this type of team. The best part of us might be the DEFENSE. Who would have ever thought that.

I want to win a Championship, not strive to go 7-9, which is what we are doing now.

you shitty fan! :mad:


:laugh:


seriously, i think most people (not counting the rabid tebowners, but no one really cares what they think anyway) probably understand that this isn't a feasible long term offense if you want to compete for a championship. . . but, i agree with fox-- what the hell?

he and elway didn't pick tebow, but they're stuck with him for at least this year, so they may as well find a way to win some games with him. . . beats playing kyle orton or brady worthless quinn. . . i'll take watching tebow beat oakland and KC with a high school offense over starting one of those useless schlubs and losing by thirty every day of the week, and about a billion times on sunday. . .

come on, running for 300 yards on the raiders-- IN oakland-- is some beautiful stuff. . . :lol: even if it's not sustainable long term. . .

fox has exactly nothing to lose by riding the tebow experiment for all it's worth this year. . . they've already come right out and said he can't run a conventional offense, and from everything we've seen, they're obviously right. . . may as well see just how far we can get with what he can run, so they can determine whether to draft a quarterback next year. . . IMO, that certainly beats just drafting one without giving tebow a chance to do his thing. . .

if he shows enough, maybe they settle for drafting a guy with some similar skills in the mid-to-later rounds, and trying to improve tim's passing over the off-season, when they actually HAVE an off-season. . . we sure could benefit from another blue chip tackle, offense or defense. . .

[Tned]

I listened to Coach Fox on his Sirius segment with Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller last night (Tim Ryan is out for some reason).

Anyways, he said much of the same, but what really stuck out to me, and has for much of this season is how strongly Pat & Tim, and last night Jim Miller stick up for Coach Fox. Of course, those guys are never going to run down a coach after they agree to come on their program, but Pat & Tim always go out of their way to talk about what a great coach "Foxy" is.

Last night, Jim Miller filling in for Tim did the same. The praise always seems to center around "Foxy" putting the players he has in the best position that they have to win. He doesn't care about style points, or what anyone else is going to think about it. . .he just does what is most likely to win.

After Jim Miller going on, Pat Kirwin picked up the mantle and reviewed every single 3rd down call the Broncos made in the first half. Basically, reinforcing Miller's point that "Foxy" doesn't care about how he looks, he just cares about what's going to win that particular ball game. He might not always have the best players, but what he has, he game plans to their strengths.

I haven't followed his career closely enough to really sign off on this myself, but these guys sure are sold on him.

Yea, I've noticed the same thing. Tim and PK seem to REALLY like "Foxy" and it seems to be mutual, as Fox is always joking with them. Sounds like Tim is sick or recovering from something, but I didn't hear what. Even Fox wished him a quick recovery.

On a separate note, I was watching NFL Live a little while ago and Schlereth was back on how inaccurate Tebow is and that even in practice he's less than 50% against air (I guess he meant no pass rush), even though I'm pretty sure he was talking about training camp practices, but he isn't totally up front with that.

Then, Trey Wingo piles on with a comment about how Tebow couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat and made a couple cracks about the two completions.

[Dapper Dan]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Von-Miller-Press-Conference/4134862b-f5a4-403e-bd3c-8219f2bce1be#?id=1c38e3d1-86f5-48e1-903a-a4df6f7c280e

I was just listening to this.

It seemed like what he meant was that if Tebow has to constantly throw the ball because they're down by more than 20 points then they're screwed. Because the defense will read pass because they literally have to pass more. You can't really make a three TD comeback in the second half without throwing a lot.

So it wasn't a knock on Tebow's passing skills. But it's a tough situation because the defense knows you're passing.

(Sorry if someone else mentioned this.)

[TXBRONC]

IF we win tomorrow, definitely going to have to catch Mike and Mike in the morning to hear him make excuses!:lol:

Which one Greenberg or Golic?

[Northman]

Which one Greenberg or Golic?

Probably Golic.

[MOtorboat]

Probably Golic.

Greenburg is the Jets fan. Golic said this morning that if it's winning games, do it, that's Fox's job.

[chazoe60]

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, but what if this is just a way to win games and develope Tebow at the same time? You know, let a young QB figure things out while on the job and try to win games at the same time.

Maybe as Tim developes, this offense will evolve as well?

Just because we all know that a 55-8 run pass ratio isn't the future and permanent offense of the Denver Broncos does not necissarily mean that Tebow isn't the future QB of the Denver Broncos.

[Northman]

Greenburg is the Jets fan. Golic said this morning that if it's winning games, do it, that's Fox's job.

Yea, i know Greeny is the Jets guy but i know that Golic has been critical of Tebow out of the two. But then again, i havent listened to them much as i have in the past.

[Northman]

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, but what if this is just a way to win games and develope Tebow at the same time? You know, let a young QB figure things out while on the job and try to win games at the same time.

Maybe as Tim developes, this offense will evolve as well?

Just because we all know that a 55-8 run pass ratio isn't the future and permanent offense of the Denver Broncos does not necissarily mean that Tebow isn't the future QB of the Denver Broncos.


Depends on what the timeline is for turning it around. I would venture to say that since we've managed to win 3 out of 4 games with us running the ball exclusively that continuing to have that ratio you put up wouldnt tell them anything about whether or not he can be legitimate passer. While im sure that is what they are thinking in terms of getting Tim experience i would have to hope we have a handful of games where we have to air it out too see what he can do in that regard. Going another year with a question mark on his passing ability isnt the smart move i believe.

[Dreadnought]

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, but what if this is just a way to win games and develope Tebow at the same time? You know, let a young QB figure things out while on the job and try to win games at the same time.

Maybe as Tim developes, this offense will evolve as well?

Just because we all know that a 55-8 run pass ratio isn't the future and permanent offense of the Denver Broncos does not necissarily mean that Tebow isn't the future QB of the Denver Broncos.

Thats my operating theory. The Tebow era Denver offense is a work in progress, not a done deal. It will (has to) continue to evolve and have stuff added.

[claymore]

What if, and I'm just spitballing here, but what if this is just a way to win games and develope Tebow at the same time? You know, let a young QB figure things out while on the job and try to win games at the same time.

Maybe as Tim developes, this offense will evolve as well?

Just because we all know that a 55-8 run pass ratio isn't the future and permanent offense of the Denver Broncos does not necissarily mean that Tebow isn't the future QB of the Denver Broncos.

If Tebow is the QB of the future, this is the only way IMO. I think we all know a 55-8 run pass ratio will not last long because 1. Tebow is going to get hurt, and there is no one to replace him, and 2. one dimensional offenses are easy to defend against.

[claymore]

Thats my operating theory. The Tebow era Denver offense is a work in progress, not a done deal. It will (has to) continue to evolve and have stuff added.

Lets try for 3 completions on 9 attempts tonight. That shows progress. All we need is one more win this year to be considered better than McD's turd that he fielded last year. :hatehimsomuch:

[Dreadnought]

If Tebow is the QB of the future, this is the only way IMO. I think we all know a 55-8 run pass ratio will not last long because 1. Tebow is going to get hurt, and there is no one to replace him, and 2. one dimensional offenses are easy to defend against.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with letting the kid do what he does well while improving the rest of his game, especially as its winning games. We know he'll put in the hours as needed, but in the meantime don't destroy his own confidence or the confidence of the team by forcing him to do crap he's not yet good at out of pure stubbornness. McDaniels would have done that, sure as Hell.

[claymore]

Agreed. Nothing wrong with letting the kid do what he does well while improving the rest of his game, especially as its winning games. We know he'll put in the hours as needed, but in the meantime don't destroy his own confidence or the confidence of the team by forcing him to do crap he's not yet good at out of pure stubbornness. McDaniels would have done that, sure as Hell.

Not to mention its easier to develop lasting relationships with his WR's Olinemen etc... While he's winning. As long as he shows progression Im happy.

[Npba900]

Haven't Stafford, Bradford,Romo, Cassel, Vick,Kolb,Campbell,Schaub and roethlisburger been hurt this year? QB is a dangerous position inside or outside the pocket, I don't think you can argue is is more dangerous either way

Point is how long of a career will a running QB have in the NFL and outside the pockent, QB's take harder hits. Inside the pocket the NFL rule changes protect the QB's from taking hard vicious hits and missing games. Owner's do not want to see their marquee QB's out there running around for fear of season ending injuries/missing significant amount of games.

Yes QB's inside the pocket will get injured, but the chances are a lot lower and they do not take the pounding that Tebow will be taking.

Its going to be interesting to see if Tebow can withstand the pounding and wear-n-tear his style of offense will bring to bare. I'll admit Tim has only played/started less than 9 games, but can his body withstand this style of play over 16-32 starts and beyond? I think not.

Tebow will break down sooner than anyone thinks with the pounding teams will be willing to dish out on him. Playing to Tebow's strengths by letting Tebow-Be-Tebow with executing the Gator-Spread-Read Option will be unsustainble in the long run.

Tebow at this stage remains a FB playing the QB position.

[Npba900]

Depends on what the timeline is for turning it around. I would venture to say that since we've managed to win 3 out of 4 games with us running the ball exclusively that continuing to have that ratio you put up wouldnt tell them anything about whether or not he can be legitimate passer. While im sure that is what they are thinking in terms of getting Tim experience i would have to hope we have a handful of games where we have to air it out too see what he can do in that regard. Going another year with a question mark on his passing ability isnt the smart move i believe.

If winning as many games as possible this year while giving T2 as much experience possible as the stater is the end goal for 2011, then EFX are half way there with meeting their goals.

However, moving forward in the future--2012 and beyond Elway is still going to want to see if Tebow can operate from the pocket or will want to draft a QB than can both move around and operate from within the pocket with accurate-consistent throws.

In 2012 Tebow is going to have to come into training camp and the pre-season a much more polished-pocket throwing QB. Elway knows Tebow won't have a long career continuously using a Option-Read-Spread scheme as well.

[Northman]

If winning as many games as possible this year while giving T2 as much experience possible as the stater is the end goal for 2011, then EFX are half way there with meeting their goals.

Obviously, thats a given.


However, moving forward in the future--2012 and beyond Elway is still going to want to see if Tebow can operate from the pocket or will want to draft a QB than can both move around and operate from within the pocket with accurate-consistent throws.

And thats the key thing which to what i was talking about. It would be nice to have a handful of games the rest of the year (which i think we will get as the schedule gets harder) to see if Tebow can progress in the passing attack. This way come draft time it will be easier to determine if we need to take a QB early or later in the draft. If they feel that Tim will get better than taking a QB later makes more sense. If they think he will take longer to develope with the possibility of not making it than they will need to get a QB early who comes in with less amount of work.

[GEM]

The additions of Miller and Bunkley certainly helped and Allen seems to be legit as a DC. If we can keep that core around for a while I like where the defense is headed.

I have been so happy with the Bunkley pickup. He's played well. :D

[Tned]

Fox talked about those quotes. Said it was the first time in 23 years as coach he let someone interview him while watching game film. Worth reading the full thing.


""It's my fault," Fox said. ""What bothers me about that quote is I love the guy. All I was talking about was how this is a different way to run the ball. Everybody wants to put a name on it. All we're doing is tweaking the running game so we match up with what Tim does well. And I'm telling you, he's getting better as a passer. He is improving.

""But that was one time where I lost sleep over it. I don't ever lose sleep over things like this, but I felt terrible about it. We were 1-4 and now we're 5-5. Believe me, I'm Tim Tebow's biggest fan."

Read more: Broncos' Fox regrets comments about Tim Tebow he made to NFL.com - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19366873#ixzz1e6gWQL4m

[Shazam!]

I've been very impressed with Fox, and if Denver makes the playoffs he should be Coach of the Year.

[Tned]

I've been very impressed with Fox, and if Denver makes the playoffs he should be Coach of the Year.

That guy in SF might take issue with that.

[Shazam!]

SF was 6-10, Denver was 4-12

SF finished 3rd, Denver 4th

SF had a better D and one of the best Backs in the League, and apparently had a legit starting QB.

Denver had none of that.

SF had tools in place, far more than Denver last going into the year in my opinion.

[dogfish]

SF was 6-10, Denver was 4-12

SF finished 3rd, Denver 4th

SF had a better D and one of the best Backs in the League, and apparently had a legit starting QB.

Denver had none of that.

SF had tools in place, far more than Denver last going into the year in my opinion.

all well and good-- but harbaugh is the coach of the year, no question. . . he's accomplishing more as a rookie than fox as a 23-year vet. . . that's not taking anything away from fox, either-- it's just how it is. . .

[Dapper Dan]

all well and good-- but harbaugh is the coach of the year, no question. . . he's accomplishing more as a rookie than fox as a 23-year vet. . . that's not taking anything away from fox, either-- it's just how it is. . .

Doesn't the award goto the best coach of the year? What would it matter if he's a rookie coach or not? It wouldn't matter what the 20 something history of the coaches are. It matters on how you've turned a team around. I'm not totally disagreeing with you about Harbaugh being coach of the year, thus far. I'm just not sure about your criteria.