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Medford Bronco
01-08-2009, 05:41 PM
Baltimore Ravens: Defense Wins Championships (Can it this year?)
http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2002-11/5591799.jpg

Let be first to say that in the past I was never a big fan of the Baltimore Ravens. For somereason (maybe how pathetic Denvers defense has been the last 2 years) I want them to win this week and would like nothing more than to see them win another Super Bowl.

That defense is consistently good year in and year out. Ed Reed is just a monster back assafety and is a game changer,
evidenced by last week. The Dolphins set an NFL record in 2008of only committing 13 turnovers the whole season
and last week in the WC game vs Balt they committed 5. 4 picks by Pennington when he only had 7 all season long.
Terrell Suggsgets tons of pressure on the QB and this defense swarms to the ball and can be very confusing to any QB
in the NFL. Ray Lewis has never been on my most favorite list but you have to admire the way he plays LB with such a
tenacity that you know he has the burning desire
to win. Bart Scott is an underrated LB. Samari Rolle will go against his former team this week and hopes to make an impact
against them.

On the other side of the ball Joe Flacco did struggle at times as a rookie QB but after starting the season with 1 TD and 7
picks through week 6, he finished with 13 TDs and 5 picks the rest of the season. He will get better IMO as time goes on
as he has a rifle for an arm. LeRon McClain and WillisMcGahee form a good 1-2 punch at RB and do help control the clock
for the Ravens. Derrick Mason did add 80 catches while being banged up all season long and also will be going against
his former team. Todd Heap and Mark Clayton round out a solid receiving corps.

The Ravens did not have explosive special teams as in the past but still have a solid unit with Yamon Figures as a PR/KR
and the very reliable Matt Stover as their kicker.

John (not Jim lol my bad) Harbough did a commendable job this year in his first year coaching in the NFL. Coming off of a 5-11 season,
he showed guts putting in a rookie QB when injuries dictated thatand he will be much better off in the future for this.

I wish the Ravens well and hope they cause 3-4 turnovers in an exciting game at Tennesse

Nomad
01-08-2009, 07:07 PM
I don't care for Ray Lewis but I have always admired the Ravens defense! Titans may have been off one week too long while the Ravens are on fire! We'll see!

Northman
01-08-2009, 11:20 PM
For the Ravens it really comes down to Flacco. If he doesnt get crazy and turn the ball over and if he continues to play smart the Defense will do their job. I like their chances.

BroncoAV06
01-08-2009, 11:31 PM
Good stuff, works well with my game preview!

DenBronx
01-09-2009, 12:01 PM
the titans, giants, eagles, steelers, panthers and ravens all have stout defenses. it is proven that when you have a defense it will get you to the playoffs more times then if you have an elite offense. i wish we had half the defense that the ravens did.

King87
01-10-2009, 06:36 PM
The Ravens are not a Superbowl team. It's a 10 10 game and Baltimore just sucks. They had THREE turnovers, one of which they were lucky to get when Tennessee was in the red zone. They basically got a free 15 yards on the play were the Refs fail to recognize what the number 0 means.

They were lucky enough to have Chris Johnson get hurt. Basically they can barely win (if they do in fact stop Tennessee from a FG in the last 55 seconds) if they get every last break.

Whoever they play next is going to slap them silly.

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2009, 07:07 PM
The Ravens are not a Superbowl team. It's a 10 10 game and Baltimore just sucks. They had THREE turnovers, one of which they were lucky to get when Tennessee was in the red zone. They basically got a free 15 yards on the play were the Refs fail to recognize what the number 0 means.

They were lucky enough to have Chris Johnson get hurt. Basically they can barely win (if they do in fact stop Tennessee from a FG in the last 55 seconds) if they get every last break.

Whoever they play next is going to slap them silly.

That D causes turnovers.....

Defense does in fact win championships

King87
01-10-2009, 07:15 PM
That D causes turnovers.....

Defense does in fact win championships

Defense wins championships, but their defense won't. To give them much credit for this win would be laughable. The failure of the refs to recognize 0, the fumble by White that was basically him just dropping the ball without being hit hard, the fumble by Crumpler by going up in the air for no reason. Chris Johnson missing the second half, yes they won, but good luck getting those breaks next round.

KCL
01-10-2009, 07:18 PM
Defense wins championships, but their defense won't. To give them much credit for this win would be laughable. The failure of the refs to recognize 0, the fumble by White that was basically him just dropping the ball without being hit hard, the fumble by Crumpler by going up in the air for no reason. Chris Johnson missing the second half, yes they won, but good luck getting those breaks next round.

I was hoping to see a TN win but Collins pretty much choked that game away.His deep passes were horrible but he did well when he threw it down the middle.Not sure why they didn't stick to that.They were lucky I guess that Balt couldn't do more with the TOs.The TOs really hurt the Titans though.

omac
01-10-2009, 07:26 PM
Wow, Tennessee held Baltimore to only 50 yards rushing and 161 yards passing, while Baltimore allowed Tennessee 116 yards rushing and 275 yards passing. This should show Tennessee dominating, but ....

Tennessee gave up 1 INT and lost 3 fumbles, while the Baltimore offense gave up no INTs and no fumbles. I didn't see the game, so I don't know if those were unforced, or due to the Baltimore defense.

By the way it looks on paper, the Baltimore offense surely didn't win this game. They were lucky recipients of those 4 turnovers.

Nomad
01-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Collins did a good job though he had a pick! The two turnovers by White and Crumpler is what killed them plus a missed FG by the kicker and with the penalties so the Titans screwed themselves. Ravens defense did a stellar job and it was a great game to watch. My only beef was the non call on the Ravens for delay of game because the refs called a good game up till that play.

DenBronx
01-10-2009, 07:59 PM
The Ravens are not a Superbowl team. It's a 10 10 game and Baltimore just sucks. They had THREE turnovers, one of which they were lucky to get when Tennessee was in the red zone. They basically got a free 15 yards on the play were the Refs fail to recognize what the number 0 means.

They were lucky enough to have Chris Johnson get hurt. Basically they can barely win (if they do in fact stop Tennessee from a FG in the last 55 seconds) if they get every last break.

Whoever they play next is going to slap them silly.



it might end up being the chargers. that should be a great matchup. but superbowl teams find ways to win and thats what the ravens do, they find ways to win. i think thats 9 turnovers in 2 games now, against very good teams. you turn the ball over 4 times then that gives your offense 4 times to score and when you do it inside of your oponents 20 yard line then its almost gauranteed points.

13-10 doesnt sound sexy but i think they are the best team in the afc. they will handle pitt or the chargers and move on.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 10:18 PM
King..be honest..are you just hatin on a division rival?

Their D has been nasty all year. Sure they got a break or 2, but so do all teams.

Rick
01-10-2009, 10:25 PM
the 10 on the other end of that score is very sexy.

King87
01-10-2009, 10:44 PM
King..be honest..are you just hatin on a division rival?

Their D has been nasty all year. Sure they got a break or 2, but so do all teams.

No, not at all. The Ravens are one of the most overhyped teams year in and year out. They had one of the greatest defenses ever, and because of that every time they climb the defensive standings people see shadows of that old team. There is a reason why they consistently lose to teams with very good QBs. Carson Palmer has carved them up consistently since 05. Hell I could argue 04 because of that 17 point come from behind fourth quarter, but whatevs.

Two of their turnovers they did nothing. Congratulations, a fat tight end jumped in the air and got hit moderately hard and he damn near hurled the ball 6 yards.

One of their biggest plays of the game only happened because a ref failed to understand the concept of 0. Another one of their big plays was a result of two defenders falling on their arses.

Here's a list of good teams they faced this year.

Steelers x2
Colts
Dolphins
Giants
Eagles
Titans

They beat two of those teams. They owned the Dolphins, which is an excellent matchup for them on paper. And, they beat the Eagles. Which is fine, except Philly was either bleh or really good all year. They managed to face Philly when the Eagles crapola.

When you factor in all the breaks they got, and factor in that they barely won, it was not impressive at all. Hell, even the Titan's best back got hurt. What more could have happened for them?

Medford Bronco
01-11-2009, 08:30 AM
The Ravens just proved that you can win in this league with a great D and to
not give them credit for going into the supposed best team record wise
in the AFC is laughable.

and King I would not bet against them. They will swallow up Rivers for lunch
if they get there. I think it will be them vs Pitt though as Pitt should win at home
this week. Pitt has a great defense as well. It will be a hard hitting matchup

The bronco fans should take note in this game how overrated yardage is.

The broncos were 2 rated in yards but only middle of the pack in offense scoring.

Its about points and preventing them and that is what the Ravens do best, no
matter how ugly it is. They find a way to win.

I would take my chances vs anybody with that D as it is the best in the NFL.

I hope they win it all with a rookie QB as well as Flacco is a classy kid and not
full of himself like some Qbs in this league.

Medford Bronco
01-11-2009, 08:32 AM
King..be honest..are you just hatin on a division rival?

Their D has been nasty all year. Sure they got a break or 2, but so do all teams.

He just hates them as they own his Bengals and have done so for years.
They also own our Broncos as well though.


Sounds like sour grapes to me

King87
01-11-2009, 09:24 AM
He just hates them as they own his Bengals and have done so for years.
They also own our Broncos as well though.


Sounds like sour grapes to me

I don't want to come off as being mean, but since 2004 they have not owned us. In 2003 and 2004 we split with them. In 05 we swept them. In 2006 we split, in 2007 we swept them. This year they swept us. So, as far as them owning us, I can only say that your statement is 100% dead wrong and not even remotely defendable.

And sour grapes? Really? Tell you what, we can do a little sig bet on how far the Ravens go.

Medford Bronco
01-11-2009, 09:28 AM
I don't want to come off as being mean, but since 2004 they have not owned us. In 2003 and 2004 we split with them. In 05 we swept them. In 2006 we split, in 2007 we swept them. This year they swept us. So, as far as them owning us, I can only say that your statement is 100% dead wrong and not even remotely defendable.

And sour grapes? Really? Tell you what, we can do a little sig bet on how far the Ravens go.

I will give you the top statement, I was just thinking this season.

for the sour grapes I will do a bet but it has to be fair.

I dont get the Ravens and you get the field. Come up with something fair and I will consider it.

sour grapes might be too strong but you gave baltimore no credit yesterday

send me a pm and I will answer accordingly

King87
01-11-2009, 09:37 AM
I will give you the top statement, I was just thinking this season.

for the sour grapes I will do a bet but it has to be fair.

I dont get the Ravens and you get the field. Come up with something fair and I will consider it.

sour grapes might be too strong but you gave baltimore no credit yesterday

send me a pm and I will answer accordingly

Because they deserved none. Most of their turnovers were complete luck, the player who was KILLING them got injured, the refs got confused by the number 0, and to top it all off one of their big pass plays only happened because TWO Titan defenders fell down.

The better question is what did they do that was impressive? Stout defense, sure, but the second you start to give them credit for those turnovers recall that the Titans kept driving and kept fumbling on their own accord.

I'm not getting the field, I am saying flat out that the winner of Chargers vs. Steelers will beat them. I'm not betting that the Ravens won't win the SB, just betting that they will not get there.

Medford Bronco
01-11-2009, 09:39 AM
Because they deserved none. Most of their turnovers were complete luck, the player who was KILLING them got injured, the refs got confused by the number 0, and to top it all off one of their big pass plays only happened because TWO Titan defenders fell down.

The better question is what did they do that was impressive? Stout defense, sure, but the second you start to give them credit for those turnovers recall that the Titans kept driving and kept fumbling on their own accord.

I'm not getting the field, I am saying flat out that the winner of Chargers vs. Steelers will beat them. I'm not betting that the Ravens won't win the SB, just betting that they will not get there.


I will do that, I will take Baltimore vs both of those teams.

What do you propose for a bet, I have to have a Bengal sig for a week?

boomer esiasian, icky woods :D

send the details to me via pm as I have to sign off now.

:beer:

bengaaaaals1688
01-11-2009, 11:18 PM
Because they deserved none. Most of their turnovers were complete luck, the player who was KILLING them got injured, the refs got confused by the number 0, and to top it all off one of their big pass plays only happened because TWO Titan defenders fell down.

The better question is what did they do that was impressive? Stout defense, sure, but the second you start to give them credit for those turnovers recall that the Titans kept driving and kept fumbling on their own accord.

I'm not getting the field, I am saying flat out that the winner of Chargers vs. Steelers will beat them. I'm not betting that the Ravens won't win the SB, just betting that they will not get there.

Gotta disagree with you on this... The INT early was forced by the pressure they got on Collins. The fumble by White, may be largely his fault because when he cut he let the ball stray out from his arm, but Jarret Johnson still gave him enough of a hit to knock it free, and Leonhard had the presence of mind to grab it and hold onto it.

Crumpler, again may have been largely his fault, but there was still a shoulder hitting the ball and the Ravens still scooped it up.

TOs always involve at least a little bit of luck it's the good teams that take advantage of them... Fumbles can usually go either way, a good defense comes away with the ball.

Lots of plays, especially pass plays, happen from defenders falling down... It happens, and again, you need to take advantage of it.

Also when it comes down to it... It's better to be lucky than good.

King87
01-12-2009, 03:23 AM
Gotta disagree with you on this... The INT early was forced by the pressure they got on Collins. The fumble by White, may be largely his fault because when he cut he let the ball stray out from his arm, but Jarret Johnson still gave him enough of a hit to knock it free, and Leonhard had the presence of mind to grab it and hold onto it.

Crumpler, again may have been largely his fault, but there was still a shoulder hitting the ball and the Ravens still scooped it up.

TOs always involve at least a little bit of luck it's the good teams that take advantage of them... Fumbles can usually go either way, a good defense comes away with the ball.

Lots of plays, especially pass plays, happen from defenders falling down... It happens, and again, you need to take advantage of it.

Also when it comes down to it... It's better to be lucky than good.


The INT was forced, but the other two were not. Lendale White got hit, not hard, and was holding the ball like a moron. The fumble reminded me a lot of the stupid Willie Parker fumbles when we played them on SNF or maybe it was MNF last season.

The Crumpler fumble was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. If you want to give them credit for that being forced, I guess go ahead. But, it's like giving someone credit for knocking out a moron who lets you punch them in the jaw to start a fight. Yes, a shoulder hit the ball, but when you are a foot away from a 200 pound flying man who looks like he is trying to squash you with his gut you are bound to hit something. None of those turnovers were all that impressive barring the INT.

bengaaaaals1688
01-12-2009, 05:30 PM
The INT was forced, but the other two were not. Lendale White got hit, not hard, and was holding the ball like a moron. The fumble reminded me a lot of the stupid Willie Parker fumbles when we played them on SNF or maybe it was MNF last season.

The Crumpler fumble was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. If you want to give them credit for that being forced, I guess go ahead. But, it's like giving someone credit for knocking out a moron who lets you punch them in the jaw to start a fight. Yes, a shoulder hit the ball, but when you are a foot away from a 200 pound flying man who looks like he is trying to squash you with his gut you are bound to hit something. None of those turnovers were all that impressive barring the INT.

Even if the fumbles weren't "forced," they were recovered. You have to give credit to the defense when they come up with the ball every time, if it was only once in awhile, then yeah just say it was luck or whatever... When it happens time and time again, it stops being luck.

King87
01-12-2009, 08:41 PM
Even if the fumbles weren't "forced," they were recovered. You have to give credit to the defense when they come up with the ball every time, if it was only once in awhile, then yeah just say it was luck or whatever... When it happens time and time again, it stops being luck.

Yeah they were recovered, but both times it basically flew to a Baltimore Raven. The first fumble was within 6 inches of a Raven when no one knew he fumbled, and the second fumble not only stopped short of out of bounds, it landed by THREE Ravens.

It happens time and time for them, but that has no bearing on it not being luck. If you watch the 05 season again half our fricking fumble recoveries were the exact same way. The ball came loose and bounced our way. When both fumbles are mental mistakes that you had little to do with AND the ball basically pops into your arms I have to call it luck.

And seeing how it took THAT much for the Ravens to win, I don't have much positive to say about them in that game.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Even if the fumbles weren't "forced," they were recovered. You have to give credit to the defense when they come up with the ball every time, if it was only once in awhile, then yeah just say it was luck or whatever... When it happens time and time again, it stops being luck.

Some teams make their own luck w/ physical play and hustle. Ravens D is no joke. Even if the O "got lucky", the Ravens D made a LOT of plays.

bengaaaaals1688
01-12-2009, 10:49 PM
Yeah they were recovered, but both times it basically flew to a Baltimore Raven. The first fumble was within 6 inches of a Raven when no one knew he fumbled, and the second fumble not only stopped short of out of bounds, it landed by THREE Ravens.

It happens time and time for them, but that has no bearing on it not being luck. If you watch the 05 season again half our fricking fumble recoveries were the exact same way. The ball came loose and bounced our way. When both fumbles are mental mistakes that you had little to do with AND the ball basically pops into your arms I have to call it luck.

And seeing how it took THAT much for the Ravens to win, I don't have much positive to say about them in that game.

This is where we disagree. It wasn't a mental mistake that forced the ball out of Crumpler's arms, it was him trying to make a better play and push into the end zone, he got hit, ball came out. It also wasn't a mental mistake that made White fumble... He was trying to make sure he had the first down, made a cut, and got hit at the perfect time. If he had gotten hit just a split second later, the ball is tucked back into his body and he picks up a big first down. Johnson hit him, ball came out, Leonhard grabbed it.

And again... It's better to be lucky than good.

King87
01-12-2009, 10:59 PM
This is where we disagree. It wasn't a mental mistake that forced the ball out of Crumpler's arms, it was him trying to make a better play and push into the end zone, he got hit, ball came out. It also wasn't a mental mistake that made White fumble... He was trying to make sure he had the first down, made a cut, and got hit at the perfect time. If he had gotten hit just a split second later, the ball is tucked back into his body and he picks up a big first down. Johnson hit him, ball came out, Leonhard grabbed it.

And again... It's better to be lucky than good.

It was a mental mistake, he had no need to jump in the air to gain all of one yard. White was running around with the ball unsecured. That is the definition of a mental mistake. He wasn't hit so hard that the ball got knocked loose.

Fine, we agree that they got lucky. Being lucky isn't impressive which is why they deserve a whole lot less dap than they are getting. Factor in the luckyness that we apparently agree on and Johnson getting hurt AND the play clock staying at zero for over a second and it just proves that the Ravens needed every last break to beat the Titans.

bengaaaaals1688
01-12-2009, 11:28 PM
It was a mental mistake, he had no need to jump in the air to gain all of one yard. White was running around with the ball unsecured. That is the definition of a mental mistake. He wasn't hit so hard that the ball got knocked loose.

Fine, we agree that they got lucky. Being lucky isn't impressive which is why they deserve a whole lot less dap than they are getting. Factor in the luckyness that we apparently agree on and Johnson getting hurt AND the play clock staying at zero for over a second and it just proves that the Ravens needed every last break to beat the Titans.

White had the ball unsecured for a split second when he made his cut. It wasn't like he kept it out for the whole time, he made a cut and his arm strayed for a second, Johnson just hit him at the right time.

Being lucky is still better than being good... The Giants got lucky last year and won the SB, I think they would take that happily.

King87
01-13-2009, 12:21 AM
White had the ball unsecured for a split second when he made his cut. It wasn't like he kept it out for the whole time, he made a cut and his arm strayed for a second, Johnson just hit him at the right time.

Being lucky is still better than being good... The Giants got lucky last year and won the SB, I think they would take that happily.

White was running like a moron and never truly had a strong grip on the ball.

The Giants didn't get lucky. They had the same great pass rush all year long. That's the main reason why they beat the Patriots. I'm sorry, the Ravens did not force those two fumbles and had little to do with either of them. They are a great defense, and a damn fine team. That does not mean that they didn't catch a ton of breaks, and that does not mean they should get as much credit for that game.

And usually the better team wins the game. Being lucky is better than being good for a game here or there, but for an entire season........ I would rather be good than be lucky. The Bengals had a lucky year in 2005....

bengaaaaals1688
01-13-2009, 07:37 AM
White was running like a moron and never truly had a strong grip on the ball.

The Giants didn't get lucky. They had the same great pass rush all year long. That's the main reason why they beat the Patriots. I'm sorry, the Ravens did not force those two fumbles and had little to do with either of them. They are a great defense, and a damn fine team. That does not mean that they didn't catch a ton of breaks, and that does not mean they should get as much credit for that game.

And usually the better team wins the game. Being lucky is better than being good for a game here or there, but for an entire season........ I would rather be good than be lucky. The Bengals had a lucky year in 2005....

Asante Samuel holds onto that INT, Patriots win. Eli doesn't manage to pull himself away from 3 people and a #4 WR doesn't manage to make one of perhaps the best catches ever, the Giants lose. That's lucky.

The Ravens have been good all year, a couple games in the playoffs getting lucky, is perfectly fine.

King87
01-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Asante Samuel holds onto that INT, Patriots win. Eli doesn't manage to pull himself away from 3 people and a #4 WR doesn't manage to make one of perhaps the best catches ever, the Giants lose. That's lucky.

The Ravens have been good all year, a couple games in the playoffs getting lucky, is perfectly fine.

That was a hard INT that he never had a hold on. It bounced off the top of his hands, that wasn't lucky because that type of play is dropped more often than not.

Eli did not get lucky in that play, he ran out of a sack, that isn't lucky, that's being a beast.

Once again, what was lucky about that catch? He outjumped Harrison, he held onto the ball, and he didn't drop it. That's execution, that isn't being fortunate enough for a stupid RB to run around like a moron with the ball unsecured. It isn't even close to the dumb luck that it takes for two Titan DBs to fall down while Flacco throws a bad pass to Mason. Hell, it isn't even close to being as lucky at having refs who fail to understand the concept of 0.

It's fine that they are lucky, but when they needed that much luck to win I refuse to give them much props. That's whats prompted the debate and I fail to see any convincingly argument otherwise.

bengaaaaals1688
01-13-2009, 10:56 PM
That was a hard INT that he never had a hold on. It bounced off the top of his hands, that wasn't lucky because that type of play is dropped more often than not.

Eli did not get lucky in that play, he ran out of a sack, that isn't lucky, that's being a beast.

Once again, what was lucky about that catch? He outjumped Harrison, he held onto the ball, and he didn't drop it. That's execution, that isn't being fortunate enough for a stupid RB to run around like a moron with the ball unsecured. It isn't even close to the dumb luck that it takes for two Titan DBs to fall down while Flacco throws a bad pass to Mason. Hell, it isn't even close to being as lucky at having refs who fail to understand the concept of 0.

It's fine that they are lucky, but when they needed that much luck to win I refuse to give them much props. That's whats prompted the debate and I fail to see any convincingly argument otherwise.

It was a simple pick that Samuel should have come down with. Especially when you take into consideration the insane amount of hype Samuel gets, that's an easy INT.

Eli made a once in a lifetime play, whether he actually forced the play or not, it was lucky that it actually worked.

That catch was made by a WR who had never been higher than #4 on any team, and it was caught against a round thing called a helmet. A ball being slammed against a round thing, isn't supposed to be able to stay there. That's lucky because it defied physics.

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