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Blue Run
01-08-2009, 05:57 PM
First let me say thank you for your time Broncos fans. You may not remember me, I had a message regarding Steve Spagnuolo recently. For reasons I can't get into here, I am familiar with his situation and for what this website affords, am posting his experience with DEN here. I may be admonished and am trying to change my writing style but I hope the right eyes see this.

It is our understanding that Josh McDaniels has the most pull in the DEN front office. Idea kicked around that Spags could be DC if McDaniels hired. Conversely, the idea of Spagnuolo as head coach - with McDaniels at OC and AHC - was presented to him.

They are prepared to offer McD a significant raise in pay and AHC status. They want to run the spread offense with Cutler, Marshall and Royal playing the Brady, Moss and Welker roles.
This is a problem because Spagnuolo would prefer running ball control to compliment strong defense and special teams.
Spags likes Cutler in a balanced, down the field attack. Told DEN he may approach current Giants QB Coach Chris Palmer about running a similar system.

The wheels are in motion and now he must return to his duty until further notice. It appears they want both McD and Spags. Keep your eye on it...

topscribe
01-08-2009, 06:03 PM
Whoever ends up as HC, I hope they don't try to force their idea of an offense
on him. That should be up to the HC. He should not need any back-seat
coaching from an owner or his administration. Leave that up to Al Davis and
Jerry Jones: They have that well in hand . . .

-----

Medford Bronco
01-08-2009, 06:04 PM
Whoever ends up as HC, I hope they don't try to force their idea of an offense
on him. That should be up to the HC. He should not need any back-seat
coaching from an owner or his administration. Leave that up to Al Davis and
Jerry Jones: They have that well in hand . . .

-----

Great post top, see my thread that I just created on this very subject

spikerman
01-08-2009, 06:05 PM
First let me say thank you for your time Broncos fans. You may not remember me, I had a message regarding Steve Spagnuolo recently. For reasons I can't get into here, I am familiar with his situation and for what this website affords, am posting his experience with DEN here. I may be admonished and am trying to change my writing style but I hope the right eyes see this.

It is our understanding that Josh McDaniels has the most pull in the DEN front office. Idea kicked around that Spags could be DC if McDaniels hired. Conversely, the idea of Spagnuolo as head coach - with McDaniels at OC and AHC - was presented to him.

They are prepared to offer McD a significant raise in pay and AHC status. They want to run the spread offense with Cutler, Marshall and Royal playing the Brady, Moss and Welker roles.
This is a problem because Spagnuolo would prefer running ball control to compliment strong defense and special teams.
Spags likes Cutler in a balanced, down the field attack. Told DEN he may approach current Giants QB Coach Chris Palmer about running a similar system.

The wheels are in motion and now he must return to his duty until further notice. It appears they want both McD and Spags. Keep your eye on it...
If this is true, it would be huge. I would be a little wary of trying to reign Cutler in too much. You can't try to turn him into a dink and dunk, ball control QB. He needs to be unleashed. I'm in favor of a strong running attack, but I hope the Broncos avoid the Brian Griese 4 yard per pass attack.

Nature Boy
01-08-2009, 06:07 PM
Spread offense? Bad idea.

I hope Denver remains a running, ball control team. We threw the ball way too much this season but that's because we had and we sucked.

Keep the offense the way it is. It'll be a lot better when our RBs are healthy.

Focus is on defense and special teams.

.

Dortoh
01-08-2009, 06:08 PM
I am probably wrong here but my understanding was that Spags could not make a latteral move do to contract issues? He has to be promoted then his contract is void?

Blue Run
01-08-2009, 06:17 PM
I understand any skepticism but have my reasons for posting this here.

It was just a sitdown, each side refused a formal interview until Spagnuolo had enough time to study the roster. Another bombshell? Spagnuolo to make a push for Brandon Jacobs. Giants have been approaching BJ with extension talks all year with nothing getting done.

Dortoh
01-08-2009, 06:28 PM
I understand any skepticism but have my reasons for posting this here.

It was just a sitdown, each side refused a formal interview until Spagnuolo had enough time to study the roster. Another bombshell? Spagnuolo to make a push for Brandon Jacobs. Giants have been approaching BJ with extension talks all year with nothing getting done.

I was in no way questioning what you were saying. I was just looking for clairfication on this issue. The idea of getting both would be great but if Spags was HC and Mcdainels was OC I'm guessing Goodman will be GM then having either Romeo or Capers as DC would make an interesting crew.

honz
01-08-2009, 06:32 PM
Spread offense? Bad idea.

I hope Denver remains a running, ball control team. We threw the ball way too much this season but that's because we had and we sucked.

Keep the offense the way it is. It'll be a lot better when our RBs are healthy.

Focus is on defense and special teams.

.

We basically ran a spread offense this season. A lot of shotgun and single back formations. But I agree that we need to run the ball more than we did this season.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-08-2009, 06:33 PM
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/04/could-spagnuolo-stay-with-giants/

Could Spagnuolo Stay With Giants?


I think pretty much everyone who follows the NFL has the same assumption right about now.

When the Giants' season ends, defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is as good as gone. There are too many teams searching for head coaches right now for him not to be.

Spagnuolo has already had the chance to interview for openings with the Jets, Broncos, and Browns, but could he spurn all potential suitors?

NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports the Giants are considering offering Spagnuolo the position of "head coach in waiting."

I've heard nothing about Tom Coughlin retiring, though he is 62 years old. One has to assume he won't coach forever, but is Spagnuolo willing to wait?

Surely, the Giants would offer him a healthy raise to go along with a title too long to fit on a business card (Defensive Coordinator/Head Coach in Waiting?). Would it be enough to fend off the teams looking to hire him to be a head coach in 2009?

Dortoh
01-08-2009, 06:36 PM
Head coach in waiting LMAO WTF

underrated29
01-08-2009, 06:40 PM
Thanks big blue. or blue run or whatever your name is....I am really busy so details are going to be missed.sorry.

I like this idea.

here is my one and only issue with the ball control offense. I love it, its one of my favs and we work it well.

The problem is i see them making Rb a priority for that, and we im cant afford to draft one before the 4th rd unless we garner extra picks.

i see the BJ thing, that would make me ***EDIT***, but i kinda doubt it. not you just that things that good dont usually jappen to teams i root for.


Also i like the spread O- we could run it well, real well and our run game could benefit greatly.

i most importantly want to see Defense a HUGE PRIOTIY INT he draft!!!!

Blue Run
01-08-2009, 06:48 PM
Made it very clear that they were not looking to rebuild - they look around the NFL and see teams turning it around quickly. They are hoping Spags can take their existing personnel (perhaps with some Giants imported spare parts) and turn it around enough to compliment their offense immediately.

They are impressed with how quickly he installed his system in NY and got results. Again, look for a big push for Jacobs and the draft to focus on pass rushers and CBs.

gobroncsnv
01-08-2009, 07:11 PM
Unless and until we get some serious D going, we NEED more TOP so that we can keep their butts off the field. Having a Jacobs would go about 9 miles towards that, and also improve Jay as a QB. Could you imagine our offense if we could have forced an 8 in the box situation?
We also need to cut down on turnovers... 2 birds with one stone. Not saying don't throw the ball anymore, just get out of having to throw every down for any kind of productivity.

But WOW, if we got that roster of coaches, and some decent players for them to work with, I'd be pickled tink.

Yo Blue, you are absolutely welcome on this board. Very informative, gives much to chew on.

omac
01-08-2009, 07:16 PM
As great as McDaniels and Spags together sounds, I'm wondering if there will be any rapport; there might be an offense versus defense type mentality in the clubhouse .... then again, that might not be a bad thing, if it causes the defense to step up.

The other thing, though, is how long do we get to keep them, as the one who isn't the head coach will definitely have a lot of suitors again the following season.

BroncoWave
01-08-2009, 07:17 PM
Head coach in waiting LMAO WTF

Yeah, that's pretty common in the NFL and college now. Jim Mora, Jr. is the HC in waiting at Seattle, Jim Caldwell is the HC in waiting in Indy, and Jimbo Fisher is the HC in waiting at Florida State. Those are the ones I can think of right off hand. That's nothing unusual.

BroncoWave
01-08-2009, 07:18 PM
Unless and until we get some serious D going, we NEED more TOP so that we can keep their butts off the field. Having a Jacobs would go about 9 miles towards that, and also improve Jay as a QB. Could you imagine our offense if we could have forced an 8 in the box situation?
We also need to cut down on turnovers... 2 birds with one stone. Not saying don't throw the ball anymore, just get out of having to throw every down for any kind of productivity.

But WOW, if we got that roster of coaches, and some decent players for them to work with, I'd be pickled tink.

I would do some MAJORLY unpure things to get Brandon Jacobs in Denver. We would have the best offense in the league hands-down if he came.

omac
01-08-2009, 07:26 PM
I would do some MAJORLY unpure things to get Brandon Jacobs in Denver. We would have the best offense in the league hands-down if he came.

Jacobs is a good, bruising RB, but he gets injured quite a bit ... he'll fit right in. :D

Lonestar
01-08-2009, 07:46 PM
I am probably wrong here but my understanding was that Spags could not make a lateral move do to contract issues? He has to be promoted then his contract is void?

he could be offered a positions like Assistant Head coach Defense like they did to Dinger when he came to town..

PatricktheDookie
01-08-2009, 07:54 PM
Thanks for the thread.

If this is true, this might be the best thread in this forum's history.

If it's not true, you still got me excited for a couple hours, which is better than nothing.

Thanks. =)

DenBronx
01-08-2009, 07:56 PM
I think with Spags AND McDaniels you will have two very differant mindsets. I think it has to be either one or the other. This could be incredibly good or incredibly bad.

Somehow at the end of the day I see Spags sticking with the G-Men.

DenBronx
01-08-2009, 08:00 PM
he could be offered a positions like Assistant Head coach Defense like they did to Dinger when he came to town..

Good point. I was wondering why would Spags would rather come to Denver, uproot his family and go to a team that was in the bottom 5 on defense. He has all the tools and talent he wants in NY. What would cause him to come here and settle for just being a DC again? Money? I'm sure the Giants could get at least pretty close. The only way I see it is he would have to be at least the assistant head coach/DC.

Maybe if we got Pioli as GM, McDaniels as HC, Spags as assistant HC/DC and Bates as our OC we would actually have something. You know a thing called accountability?

Lancane
01-08-2009, 08:01 PM
I think with Spags AND McDaniels you will have two very differant mindsets. I think it has to be either one or the other. This could be incredibly good or incredibly bad.

Somehow at the end of the day I see Spags sticking with the G-Men.

Agreed, I think as of now McDaniels is the next head coach of the Broncos and Capers or Crennel will likely be our new Defensive Coordinator. And while some fans will be upset, remember they come from the only team to even get close to a dynasty in this decade. Would you rather win one Super Bowl on the coat tails of our defense or win three or more through balance and a proven system?

fcspikeit
01-08-2009, 08:31 PM
Good point. I was wondering why would Spags would rather come to Denver, uproot his family and go to a team that was in the bottom 5 on defense. He has all the tools and talent he wants in NY. What would cause him to come here and settle for just being a DC again? Money? I'm sure the Giants could get at least pretty close. The only way I see it is he would have to be at least the assistant head coach/DC.

Maybe if we got Pioli as GM, McDaniels as HC, Spags as assistant HC/DC and Bates as our OC we would actually have something. You know a thing called accountability?

I don't see spags coming here for anything but a HC job. He can get a HC job somewhere else, why would he take the AHC job here?

Now, I can see Spags being the head coach and McDaniels being the AHC. IMO that would be awesome! This thread has me all excited now.... I guess that's a good thing :D

fcspikeit
01-08-2009, 08:33 PM
First let me say thank you for your time Broncos fans. You may not remember me, I had a message regarding Steve Spagnuolo recently. For reasons I can't get into here, I am familiar with his situation and for what this website affords, am posting his experience with DEN here. I may be admonished and am trying to change my writing style but I hope the right eyes see this.

It is our understanding that Josh McDaniels has the most pull in the DEN front office. Idea kicked around that Spags could be DC if McDaniels hired. Conversely, the idea of Spagnuolo as head coach - with McDaniels at OC and AHC - was presented to him.

They are prepared to offer McD a significant raise in pay and AHC status. They want to run the spread offense with Cutler, Marshall and Royal playing the Brady, Moss and Welker roles.
This is a problem because Spagnuolo would prefer running ball control to compliment strong defense and special teams.
Spags likes Cutler in a balanced, down the field attack. Told DEN he may approach current Giants QB Coach Chris Palmer about running a similar system.

The wheels are in motion and now he must return to his duty until further notice. It appears they want both McD and Spags. Keep your eye on it...

Where is this info coming from? I have to say, if your saying all this just for kicks, I will never forgive you :sad:

But seriously, I hope this is all true... Thanks for taking the time to come back here...

Lonestar
01-08-2009, 08:34 PM
Agreed, I think as of now McDaniels is the next head coach of the Broncos and Capers or Crennel will likely be our new Defensive Coordinator. And while some fans will be upset, remember they come from the only team to even get close to a dynasty in this decade. Would you rather win one Super Bowl on the coat tails of our defense or win three or more through balance and a proven system?


I was thinking much the same .. but remember most folks here hate NE because of that dynasty and it is an east coast team with alot of adoration..

They earned their stripes and deserve to keep them.. they got there from hard work of a to of folks including the coaches and players.. They also got there from great player personnel moves.. something that was VERY untypical of Denver..

Hey If I could get Paoli as GM, McBride as HC and Crenell as DC and become patties "west" OK BY me..

We could do much worse IMHO...

Oh wait we have the past 8 years..

claymore
01-08-2009, 08:34 PM
First let me say thank you for your time Broncos fans. You may not remember me, I had a message regarding Steve Spagnuolo recently. For reasons I can't get into here, I am familiar with his situation and for what this website affords, am posting his experience with DEN here. I may be admonished and am trying to change my writing style but I hope the right eyes see this.

It is our understanding that Josh McDaniels has the most pull in the DEN front office. Idea kicked around that Spags could be DC if McDaniels hired. Conversely, the idea of Spagnuolo as head coach - with McDaniels at OC and AHC - was presented to him.

They are prepared to offer McD a significant raise in pay and AHC status. They want to run the spread offense with Cutler, Marshall and Royal playing the Brady, Moss and Welker roles.
This is a problem because Spagnuolo would prefer running ball control to compliment strong defense and special teams.
Spags likes Cutler in a balanced, down the field attack. Told DEN he may approach current Giants QB Coach Chris Palmer about running a similar system.

The wheels are in motion and now he must return to his duty until further notice. It appears they want both McD and Spags. Keep your eye on it...This is the uber deal to me. If this happened, I would crap my pants.

Tned
01-08-2009, 08:53 PM
While I think it would be great. To get arguably the best defensive HC candidate and best offensive HC candidate together, would on paper be a dream come true.

However, since both are HC candidates for multiple teams, plus likely more opening that will come up next year, it's hard to imagine Bowlen and company would convince one to move over as assistant head coach.

tomjonesrocks
01-08-2009, 09:04 PM
Like others, see no reason why Spags takes anything below a HC offer at this point. He's the DC already for a defending SB champ and current favorite. Gets no better than that without a promotion.

TXBRONC
01-08-2009, 09:32 PM
As great as McDaniels and Spags together sounds, I'm wondering if there will be any rapport; there might be an offense versus defense type mentality in the clubhouse .... then again, that might not be a bad thing, if it causes the defense to step up.

The other thing, though, is how long do we get to keep them, as the one who isn't the head coach will definitely have a lot of suitors again the following season.

I think the heated feeling between offense and defense can happen when one unit isn't holding up its end of the bargain. Then again if we hire someone like Buddy Ryan to run the defense then it is almost a certainty that kind of contention would take place.

Lancane
01-08-2009, 09:40 PM
I was thinking much the same .. but remember most folks here hate NE because of that dynasty and it is an east coast team with alot of adoration..

They earned their stripes and deserve to keep them.. they got there from hard work of a to of folks including the coaches and players.. They also got there from great player personnel moves.. something that was VERY untypical of Denver..

Hey If I could get Paoli as GM, McBride as HC and Crenell as DC and become patties "west" OK BY me..

We could do much worse IMHO...

Oh wait we have the past 8 years..

Yeah...well there is a big difference because if we had been the dynasty we sure in the hell, as fans not been crying about it. It's a hypocrite thing....but I can say I am sick of years of mediocrity and if McD and Crennel or Capers brings results, especially more then Shanahan has given to us since Elway then so be it and I am all for it.

BroncoWave
01-08-2009, 09:43 PM
Agreed, I think as of now McDaniels is the next head coach of the Broncos and Capers or Crennel will likely be our new Defensive Coordinator. And while some fans will be upset, remember they come from the only team to even get close to a dynasty in this decade. Would you rather win one Super Bowl on the coat tails of our defense or win three or more through balance and a proven system?

At this point, beggars can't be choosers. I'll take a Super Bowl however we can get it! :D

BroncoWave
01-08-2009, 09:45 PM
Yeah...well there is a big difference because if we had been the dynasty we sure in the hell, as fans not been crying about it. It's a hypocrite thing....but I can say I am sick of years of mediocrity and if McD and Crennel or Capers brings results, especially more then Shanahan has given to us since Elway then so be it and I am all for it.

Yeah, I'd absolutely love to mimic what NE does. My only problem is the lack of success from Belichick's coaching tree. I would be fine with a McD/Capers combo but I do have reservations about it given the how Belichick's other coordinators have done as head coaches.

Lancane
01-08-2009, 09:54 PM
Yeah, I'd absolutely love to mimic what NE does. My only problem is the lack of success from Belichick's coaching tree. I would be fine with a McD/Capers combo but I do have reservations about it given the how Belichick's other coordinators have done as head coaches.

To be fair, I think Mangini was doing real well in New York...Farve was an issue and even the players knew it...he was raped by the owner!

SR
01-08-2009, 09:54 PM
I'd rather have an offense like we did in '98 than mimic what the Patriots did. Their running game sucked and their offense was predictable. I don't want Brandon Jacobs on my team either. Why? Because he is injury prone. I'd rather have Peyton Hillis. Yeah, he got hurt, but it was a freak weird incident. Peyton is young, inexpensive, and a workhorse with out an ego. Signing Brandon Jacobs would take too much money and prevent us from putting money where we need to put it.

And some of the shit some of you people say is ridiculous. Quit playing so much damn Madden.

TXBRONC
01-08-2009, 10:18 PM
While I think it would be great. To get arguably the best defensive HC candidate and best offensive HC candidate together, would on paper be a dream come true.

However, since both are HC candidates for multiple teams, plus likely more opening that will come up next year, it's hard to imagine Bowlen and company would convince one to move over as assistant head coach.

I think you're right. There is probably a better chance of McDaniel bringing in someone like Dom Capers than there is of bringing in McDaniel and Spagnuolo.

Medford Bronco
01-08-2009, 10:21 PM
I'd rather have an offense like we did in '98 than mimic what the Patriots did. Their running game sucked and their offense was predictable. I don't want Brandon Jacobs on my team either. Why? Because he is injury prone. I'd rather have Peyton Hillis. Yeah, he got hurt, but it was a freak weird incident. Peyton is young, inexpensive, and a workhorse with out an ego. Signing Brandon Jacobs would take too much money and prevent us from putting money where we need to put it.

And some of the shit some of you people say is ridiculous. Quit playing so much damn Madden.

I think you are off base on the Pats. They won 3 Super Bowls with that offense. You can hate the Pats which is fine but they are winners and have proven that and their offense did work.

Your right I would rather have the 98 offense as well. But John Elway is not walking through that door and neither is TD or McCaffrey or Smith.

Nature Boy
01-08-2009, 10:22 PM
Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini... just to name a few OCs/DCs that came off a Super Bowl victory or victories that became head coaches that just got canned this off season.

There's plenty more, please add to the list:



By the same time next year, some one on this board will be chanting "Bring Back Mikey!"

LOL!

.

hamrob
01-08-2009, 10:31 PM
First of all...BJ is over-rated in my opinion. I'd rather keep what we have in Hillis...then over pay for an over rated RB. Secondly, Cutler is not going to want to play ball control and he certainly isn't going to want to play for F""""" Palmer. Give me a break.

Spags is a flipping idiot if he wants to mess with our offense. A tweak here and there fine. But you don't take the #2 overall offense and decide to go in a different direction. Stupidest thing I've heard so far!

Hire McDanials....get a solid D' Coordintor and we're set!

Let Spags stay in the NFC...if that's his idea of fixing the Broncos!

SR
01-08-2009, 11:08 PM
I think you are off base on the Pats. They won 3 Super Bowls with that offense. You can hate the Pats which is fine but they are winners and have proven that and their offense did work.

Your right I would rather have the 98 offense as well. But John Elway is not walking through that door and neither is TD or McCaffrey or Smith.

No, they aren't, but Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Scheffler, Graham, and a running back like Hillis or Torain if he can stay healthy will be the closest thing we'll ever get to the '98 team. If we would have had a middle of the road defense this year we would have made the playoffs with out question and given plenty of teams a run for their money. Our offense is the shit. We had a couple of issues with Jay making stupid decisions, our receivers dropping balls, not having a threatening run game (Except when Hillis was starting), and with some shoddy play calling, but by and large our offense was awesome.

broncohead
01-08-2009, 11:13 PM
First of all...BJ is over-rated in my opinion. I'd rather keep what we have in Hillis...then over pay for an over rated RB. Secondly, Cutler is not going to want to play ball control and he certainly isn't going to want to play for F""""" Palmer. Give me a break.

Spags is a flipping idiot if he wants to mess with our offense. A tweak here and there fine. But you don't take the #2 overall offense and decide to go in a different direction. Stupidest thing I've heard so far!

Hire McDanials....get a solid D' Coordintor and we're set!

Let Spags stay in the NFC...if that's his idea of fixing the Broncos!

I don't know why people are jumping to conclusions when there hasn't been a credible source saying half of what has been said in this forum the last couple of days. There is more of a chance of McDanials changing the offense then Spags IMO. McDan is the OC for NE one of the top passing offenses for the last few years so he'll want to create the same thing here expecially with a young upcoming star like Cutler.

omac
01-08-2009, 11:31 PM
Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini... just to name a few OCs/DCs that came off a Super Bowl victory or victories that just got canned this off season.

There's plenty more, please add to the list:



By the same time next year, some one on this board will be chanting "Bring Back Mikey!"

LOL!

.

Although I think firing Shanny was a mistake, I hope we don't hear any "bring back Mikey" chants. We have to move forward.

Good point on Bellichick coaches getting fired; I think Mangini, though, is actually a good one. He had no control of the Favre situation, though, from the acquisition to the way he played.

Lancane
01-08-2009, 11:40 PM
One problem I see when they hire McDaniels is he has that boy-look, he needs to grow some facial hair...lol - look:


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f229/lancane/JoshMcDaniels2.jpg

BroncoWave
01-08-2009, 11:41 PM
I don't care what kind of facial hair he has as long as he leads us to wins.

Lancane
01-08-2009, 11:45 PM
I don't care what kind of facial hair he has as long as he leads us to wins.

Just lightening up the gloom moods of some! Hehehe...

BTB, I am surprised you did not say anything about the polo he is wearing!...

fcspikeit
01-09-2009, 12:59 AM
While I think it would be great. To get arguably the best defensive HC candidate and best offensive HC candidate together, would on paper be a dream come true.

However, since both are HC candidates for multiple teams, plus likely more opening that will come up next year, it's hard to imagine Bowlen and company would convince one to move over as assistant head coach.

From my understanding, they asked Spags if how he felt about being HC and having McDaniels be AHC..

I could see McDaniels doing this, it would be an improvement from what he has now, and I don't believe I have heard his name come up that much in regards to other head coaching jobs.. He could always get his shot at being HC later on. It might even be in the next couple years. But it would be a good couple years. If and when he left we could have someone from his staff step up and be the new OC... I really like the idea... This could work :D

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 01:12 AM
I can't believe some of you guys are considering revamping the whole offense into a NE like spread offense.

The problem is the defense and special teams. Leave the offense alone.

All Denver needs is an upgraded D-line: both against the run and pass rushing. Bring in a real MLB(not like that shrimp Nate Webster).

Improve ST play and one of those injured RBs has to pan out next season.

.

BroncoWave
01-09-2009, 01:21 AM
I can't believe some of you guys are considering revamping the whole offense into a NE like spread offense.

The problem is the defense and special teams. Leave the offense alone.

All Denver needs is an upgraded D-line: both against the run and pass rushing. Bring in a real MLB(not like that shrimp Nate Webster).

Improve ST play and one of those injured RBs has to pan out next season.

.

Did you watch a Broncos game this year? We ran the spread quite a bit. And you can trash the Pats offense all you want but look at the success it's gotten them. I'd kill for half the success they've had this decade.

Cugel
01-09-2009, 01:29 AM
First let me say thank you for your time Broncos fans. You may not remember me, I had a message regarding Steve Spagnuolo recently. For reasons I can't get into here, I am familiar with his situation and for what this website affords, am posting his experience with DEN here. I may be admonished and am trying to change my writing style but I hope the right eyes see this.

It is our understanding that Josh McDaniels has the most pull in the DEN front office. Idea kicked around that Spags could be DC if McDaniels hired. Conversely, the idea of Spagnuolo as head coach - with McDaniels at OC and AHC - was presented to him.

They are prepared to offer McD a significant raise in pay and AHC status. They want to run the spread offense with Cutler, Marshall and Royal playing the Brady, Moss and Welker roles.
This is a problem because Spagnuolo would prefer running ball control to compliment strong defense and special teams.
Spags likes Cutler in a balanced, down the field attack. Told DEN he may approach current Giants QB Coach Chris Palmer about running a similar system.

The wheels are in motion and now he must return to his duty until further notice. It appears they want both McD and Spags. Keep your eye on it...

And WHY, pray tell, would Spagnuolo leave the Giants, where he's a successful DC for a team with probably the best defense in the league, to come to Denver at the same position when they have a crap defense and few talented players? Hmmmn? :coffee:

It makes ZERO sense. Stagnuolo either takes a head-coaching job or he stays with the Giants. Under NO circumstances would he accept a lateral move to be DC under another head-coach. That would be potential career suicide!

Same thing with McDaniels! Why on earth would he leave the Patriots where he's with the most successful franchise in Sports over the last 8 years, to come to Denver and be just another coordinator? It's absurd! :confused:

Either of those guys MIGHT end up as head coach here in Denver, but NEITHER of them would leave their current jobs just to make a lateral move, even for more money. Anybody can post anything they want on the internet, but until some actual source proves it, I'm totally NOT buying this at all!

You take a BIG risk. Fortune is fickle! Today these guys are the flavor of the month, but so was Romeo Crennel once.

Look at the scenario: You're a successful defensive/offensive coordinator with a playoff team and are sometimes talked about as HC material. You go somewhere with a crap defense, and not many good players -- and fail to turn things around. (See Jim Bates). Suddenly, you're a failure and getting fired. The phone doesn't ring. You take a year off and then start looking around for another job as maybe a coaching job, hoping to work your way up again.

Now, this risk is worth it for the chance to be a head-coach in the NFL. Obviously, the Patriots and Giants aren't firing their head-coaches. So, by definition if there's a job opening you're going somewhere they have failed and have problems. And there's a chance that you WON'T succeed. Many promising coaches have failed in the past.

Probably the Broncos at 8-8, a franchise QB and some good young players on offense, are about as good a situation as you could possibly hope to find. More likely, your choices are going to be teams like the Browns, the Rams, the Bengals or the Lions in any given season, teams that have devoured many coaches and GMs before you.

But ask yourself this: are you willing to take a chance like that and potentially fail and ruin your chances of becoming a head-coach, merely to move from DC/OC on one team to the same position on another?

NO?
I didn't think so. :coffee:

SmilinAssasSin27
01-09-2009, 01:41 AM
can we please just get this overwith already?

Simple Jaded
01-09-2009, 01:57 AM
McDaniels can stick that spread offense where the sun don't shine.......

Simple Jaded
01-09-2009, 02:07 AM
Did you watch a Broncos game this year? We ran the spread quite a bit. And you can trash the Pats offense all you want but look at the success it's gotten them. I'd kill for half the success they've had this decade.

They started running this spread offense in 2007.......the last year they won the SB Brady threw for a modest 3600 yards in 16 games and they had a 1600 rusher, their offense was completely different in 2004.

Their success is due to Belichick, not that spread offense.......

fcspikeit
01-09-2009, 03:06 AM
I can't believe some of you guys are considering revamping the whole offense into a NE like spread offense.

The problem is the defense and special teams. Leave the offense alone.

All Denver needs is an upgraded D-line: both against the run and pass rushing. Bring in a real MLB(not like that shrimp Nate Webster).

Improve ST play and one of those injured RBs has to pan out next season.

.


The guy who came up with our offensive game plan is gone... I would rather our new OC bring in his system then try and run one he knows nothing about..

fcspikeit
01-09-2009, 03:27 AM
And WHY, pray tell, would Spagnuolo leave the Giants, where he's a successful DC for a team with probably the best defense in the league, to come to Denver at the same position when they have a crap defense and few talented players? Hmmmn? :coffee:

It makes ZERO sense. Stagnuolo either takes a head-coaching job or he stays with the Giants. Under NO circumstances would he accept a lateral move to be DC under another head-coach. That would be potential career suicide!

Same thing with McDaniels! Why on earth would he leave the Patriots where he's with the most successful franchise in Sports over the last 8 years, to come to Denver and be just another coordinator? It's absurd! :confused:

Either of those guys MIGHT end up as head coach here in Denver, but NEITHER of them would leave their current jobs just to make a lateral move, even for more money. Anybody can post anything they want on the internet, but until some actual source proves it, I'm totally NOT buying this at all!

You take a BIG risk. Fortune is fickle! Today these guys are the flavor of the month, but so was Romeo Crennel once.

Look at the scenario: You're a successful defensive/offensive coordinator with a playoff team and are sometimes talked about as HC material. You go somewhere with a crap defense, and not many good players -- and fail to turn things around. (See Jim Bates). Suddenly, you're a failure and getting fired. The phone doesn't ring. You take a year off and then start looking around for another job as maybe a coaching job, hoping to work your way up again.

Now, this risk is worth it for the chance to be a head-coach in the NFL. Obviously, the Patriots and Giants aren't firing their head-coaches. So, by definition if there's a job opening you're going somewhere they have failed and have problems. And there's a chance that you WON'T succeed. Many promising coaches have failed in the past.

Probably the Broncos at 8-8, a franchise QB and some good young players on offense, are about as good a situation as you could possibly hope to find. More likely, your choices are going to be teams like the Browns, the Rams, the Bengals or the Lions in any given season, teams that have devoured many coaches and GMs before you.

But ask yourself this: are you willing to take a chance like that and potentially fail and ruin your chances of becoming a head-coach, merely to move from DC/OC on one team to the same position on another?

NO?
I didn't think so. :coffee:

You make a lot of good points, I agree with you about Spags, he would have no reason to leave a better team for the same position. His stock is already high enough to get a HC job. He has nothing to gain by trying to turn our D around as DC… I don’t think they even asked him too..


It is our understanding that Josh McDaniels has the most pull in the DEN front office. Idea kicked around that Spags could be DC if McDaniels hired. Conversely, the idea of Spagnuolo as head coach - with McDaniels at OC and AHC - was presented to him.

What other teams have McDaniels as a HC candidate? I think he could improve his stock by taking the promotion to AHC.. If he succeeded, his stock would rise to the point even the best jobs on the marked would be interested in him as their HC.

That’s the only way I see this working out, Spags will not be our DC unless he just really wants out of NY and don’t want to be the HC for the lions or Jets.

McDaniels might want to get out of Belichick's shadow, Our AHC job could be the best he can get at this time...

PatricktheDookie
01-09-2009, 03:44 AM
I don't care what kind of facial hair he has as long as he leads us to wins.

I care!

Bearded men unite!

Traveler
01-09-2009, 06:33 AM
Does anyone else see this as anything other than BS?

Dean
01-09-2009, 08:53 AM
Whoever ends up as HC, I hope they don't try to force their idea of an offense
on him. That should be up to the HC. He should not need any back-seat
coaching from an owner or his administration. Leave that up to Al Davis and
Jerry Jones: They have that well in hand . . .

-----

Yeah, but they are both busy right now. ;) We will have to settle for Pat. :D

Dean
01-09-2009, 09:03 AM
I can't believe some of you guys are considering revamping the whole offense into a NE like spread offense.

The problem is the defense and special teams. Leave the offense alone.

All Denver needs is an upgraded D-line: both against the run and pass rushing. Bring in a real MLB(not like that shrimp Nate Webster).

Improve ST play and one of those injured RBs has to pan out next season.

.

I would also see both the zone blocking scheme retained in regard to the rushing attack and the spread offense used as well. They are not mutually exclusive.

Only one other team in the NFL had a more productive offense last year and, now, each player has experience in running it and in working with the guy next to him.

muse
01-09-2009, 09:57 AM
I would also see both the zone blocking scheme retained in regard to the rushing attack and the spread offense used as well. They are not mutually exclusive.

Only one other team in the NFL had a more productive offense last year and, now, each player has experience in running it and in working with the guy next to him.

McDaniels did install in NE, so I bet he'd be thrilled to get his hands on the premier ZB line in the league with the most deeply rooted system. Not to mention the fact that they are amazing at pass pro which is usually the achilles heel of the system. I just don't want us to be a pass first team the whole time. The short passing game should complement the running game, rather than the running game being a change of pace (like last year).

Medford Bronco
01-09-2009, 10:03 AM
No, they aren't, but Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Scheffler, Graham, and a running back like Hillis or Torain if he can stay healthy will be the closest thing we'll ever get to the '98 team. If we would have had a middle of the road defense this year we would have made the playoffs with out question and given plenty of teams a run for their money. Our offense is the shit. We had a couple of issues with Jay making stupid decisions, our receivers dropping balls, not having a threatening run game (Except when Hillis was starting), and with some shoddy play calling, but by and large our offense was awesome.

Sorry but I disagree with you SR. I hope you are right though.:salute:

claymore
01-09-2009, 10:13 AM
Does anyone else see this as anything other than BS?

I dont know what to believe anymore Travler. I still cant believe Shanahan is gone.

Shazam!
01-09-2009, 10:17 AM
I still cant believe Shanahan is gone.

Oh, c'mon Clay. It'll be ok man. It isn't the second reiteration of Elway's retirement.

I do agree this process is nervewracking.

claymore
01-09-2009, 10:20 AM
Oh, c'mon Clay. It'll be ok man. It isn't the second reiteration of Elway's retirement.

I do agree this process is nervewracking.

Yeah Im emotionaly over it. And change is good. I will miss him though. I loved when he would scowl at people for turning the ball over or doing something stoopid.

broncofaninfla
01-09-2009, 10:24 AM
As good as a Spags HC and McD AHC sounds it's hard for me to beleive it could happen.

LRtagger
01-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Just glancing at several Giants message boards, all of them are convinced that Spags will stay with the Giants.

This seems like BS to me.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 11:33 AM
They started running this spread offense in 2007.......the last year they won the SB Brady threw for a modest 3600 yards in 16 games and they had a 1600 rusher, their offense was completely different in 2004.

Their success is due to Belichick, not that spread offense.......

They did have a little help from the video camera as well. :D

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 01:03 PM
Did you watch a Broncos game this year? We ran the spread quite a bit. And you can trash the Pats offense all you want but look at the success it's gotten them. I'd kill for half the success they've had this decade.


Yea we ran the spread offense or went pass happy however you wanna look at it because we had to, our defense was unable to keep a lead. We also did not have a reliable RB to go to so it was all on Cutler's arm.

What good going pass happy got us huh?

The ideal offense is half run, half pass. That's just football 101. Too keep the opposing defense off balanced and guessing.

.

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 01:11 PM
The guy who came up with our offensive game plan is gone... I would rather our new OC bring in his system then try and run one he knows nothing about..


Why fix what isn't broken? In fact we need to run the ball a lot more next season. Screw a spread offense.

I'd hate to see Denver become the Arizona Cardinals. Yes, they made it past the 1st round of the playoffs this season but with that atrocious defense, they have to air it up and score 50 points per game or they lose.

If anything, we need to go back to what worked, Run the Freaking ball, get Cutler out in the open off bootlegs with options to run or pass and drop a long bomb to Marshall, Royal or Stokely once in a while.

Fix the defense and STs, not the entire offense.

.

turftoad
01-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Why fix what isn't broken? In fact we need to run the ball a lot more next season. Screw a spread offense.

I'd hate to see Denver become the Arizona Cardinals. Yes, they made it past the 1st round of the playoffs this season but with that atrocious defense, they have to air it up and score 50 points per game or they lose.

If anything, we need to go back to what worked, Run the Freaking ball, get Cutler out in the open off bootlegs with options to run or pass and drop a long bomb to Marshall, Royal or Stokely once in a while.

Fix the defense and STs, not the entire offense.

.

The new coach will dictate how the offense is run. We have no say in the matter. I'm sure that Bowlen will support whatever offense the new coach brings with him. On a positive note though, looks like we will be keeping some of our better offensive assistant coach's so it may not change to much.

Oh, BTW, I would love to see Spags as HC and McDaniels come in at the OC/Asst head coach. We'd have the best of both worlds.

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 01:31 PM
The new coach will dictate how the offense is run. We have no say in the matter. I'm sure that Bowlen will support whatever offense the new coach brings with him. On a positive note though, looks like we will be keeping some of our better offensive assistant coach's so it may not change to much.


I'm aware. I'm just calling out a few members here on this board who are screaming for a whole new, revamped, shot gun, every down spread offense.

BroncoWave
01-09-2009, 02:27 PM
I'm aware. I'm just calling out a few members here on this board who are screaming for a whole new, revamped, shot gun, every down spread offense.

There is not a single person on here who has called for an offense exactly as you just described it. All we are saying is that a spread wouldn't be the end of the world and that other NFL teams have used it successfully. Personally, I couldn't care less what type of offense we run as long as it's effective.

Broncolingus
01-09-2009, 02:33 PM
I'm aware. I'm just calling out a few members here on this board who are screaming for a whole new, revamped, shot gun, every down spread offense.

I agree, Bailey...

I'm not seeing that...maybe I'm missing something?

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 02:35 PM
There is not a single person on here who has called for an offense exactly as you just described it. All we are saying is that a spread wouldn't be the end of the world and that other NFL teams have used it successfully. Personally, I couldn't care less what type of offense we run as long as it's effective.


Just be realistic. Denver is the running back capitol of the NFL and it will never change.

Say no to a spread offense.

Like someone said, the Patriots won their SB rings without a spread offense. They haven't won 1 since they implemented the spread offense.

Look at Andy Reid and the Eagles. They've always had a tremendous defense but they pass the darn ball way too much and they never got to the glory land.

.

Lonestar
01-09-2009, 02:40 PM
Just be realistic. Denver is the running back capitol of the NFL and it will never change.
Say no to a spread offense.

Like someone said, the Patriots won their SB rings without a spread offense. They haven't won 1 since they implemented the spread offense.

Look at Andy Reid and the Eagles. They've always had a tremendous defense but they pass the darn ball way too much and they never got to the glory land.

.

I suspect the RB capitol just moved elsewhere.. with mikeys firing.. we had zilch in RB's be fore mikey, Gibbs and turner got here and suspect it will disappear from our sight also.. but then it might have been turner all teh time so if he stays maybe it was not mikey all this time.. time will tell..

BroncoWave
01-09-2009, 03:03 PM
Just be realistic. Denver is the running back capitol of the NFL and it will never change.

Say no to a spread offense.

Under Shanny. He's not here anymore. Things change.


Like someone said, the Patriots won their SB rings without a spread offense. They haven't won 1 since they implemented the spread offense.

Look at Andy Reid and the Eagles. They've always had a tremendous defense but they pass the darn ball way too much and they never got to the glory land.

.

Yeah, they haven't won a SB since they put the spread in but they have gone 16-0 and 11-5 in the 2 seasons they've run it. I'd take that in a heartbeat. NO ONE here wants or expects us to run all spread all the time but it wouldn't be the end of the world if our offense was based around the spread. Our offense has the talent to run whatever McDaniels installs IMO. I'm much more worried about the defense than whatever changes are made on offense.

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 03:07 PM
I'm aware. I'm just calling out a few members here on this board who are screaming for a whole new, revamped, shot gun, every down spread offense.


There is not a single person on here who has called for an offense exactly as you just described it. All we are saying is that a spread wouldn't be the end of the world and that other NFL teams have used it successfully. Personally, I couldn't care less what type of offense we run as long as it's effective.


I agree, Bailey...

I'm not seeing that...maybe I'm missing something?


Those that are calling for Josh McDaniels to be our next Offensive Coordinator are asking for a spread offense like that of Tom Brady and the Patriots. That's a complete revamp compared to that of what Mikey left behind which is a superb offense even without a good RB. All it needs is a solid RB and it's a Super Bowl quality offense. We all know it.

.

turftoad
01-09-2009, 03:08 PM
Those that are calling for Josh McDaniels to be our next Offensive Coordinator are asking for a spread offense like that of Tom Brady and the Patriots. That's a complete revamp compared to that of what Mikey left behind.

.

Mikeys nor here anymore, we need to get used to that.

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 03:39 PM
Mikeys nor here anymore, we need to get used to that.


Doesn't mean we have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Our offense was one of the most potent in the league. All it was missing was a solid RB. Don't fix what ain't broken.

.

fcspikeit
01-09-2009, 03:43 PM
Those that are calling for Josh McDaniels to be our next Offensive Coordinator are asking for a spread offense like that of Tom Brady and the Patriots. That's a complete revamp compared to that of what Mikey left behind which is a superb offense even without a good RB. All it needs is a solid RB and it's a Super Bowl quality offense. We all know it.

.


Doesn't mean we have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Our offense was one of the most potent in the league. All it was missing was a solid RB. Don't fix what ain't broken.

.


If everyone could run Shanahans offense more teams would be doing it.. No one said we NEED to change the offense, but most realize it is going to change.

If the new OC could run our offense the way it is that's great. If that's not what he knows he simply can't run it. IMO change is on the way on both sides of the ball, rather we want it or not..

turftoad
01-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Doesn't mean we have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Our offense was one of the most potent in the league. All it was missing was a solid RB. Don't fix what ain't broken.

.

I agree but I'll let YOU tell the new coach's that.

NightTrainLayne
01-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Bates tried to copy a lot of the Patriots offense this year. . .Cutler and Bates said as much at the beginning of the season. Maybe you should have complained about it all season long as we ran it.

I'd rather run the real thing than a copy of it if I have the choice.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 04:21 PM
Bates tried to copy a lot of the Patriots offense this year. . .Cutler and Bates said as much at the beginning of the season. Maybe you should have complained about it all season long as we ran it.

I'd rather run the real thing than a copy of it if I have the choice.

I don't think so NTL. Denver ran empty backfield formations when Shanahan first got here.

NightTrainLayne
01-09-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't think so NTL. Denver ran empty backfield formations when Shanahan first got here.

Sure. I don't see what that has to do with my comment regarding what Bates was trying to do this season though.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 04:39 PM
Sure. I don't see what that has to do with my comment regarding what Bates was trying to do this season though.

Bates didn't copy anything from the Patriots because it was already in the playbook.

NightTrainLayne
01-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Bates didn't copy anything from the Patriots because it was already in the playbook.

Maybe "copy" is the wrong word then, but Bates "looked" at the Patriots offense and tried to "emulate" some aspects.

Medford Bronco
01-09-2009, 05:02 PM
Maybe "copy" is the wrong word then, but Bates "looked" at the Patriots offense and tried to "emulate" some aspects.

lol you and TX are going back and forth discussing something that probably will not even be used next season if the new head coach brings in a whole new staff that he should be allowed to.

I also LOL at the people that call this a Super Bowl offense.
Really with all those turnovers and inconsistency at times a Super Bowl offense. :lol:


They are decent but to get better a lot still needs to improve, especially with Cutler and his taking care of the ball. Less picks at times. Like I said in another thread. 11-14 ints for the year is okay if you score more points and keep the "bad" picks like at the end of the Buffalo game to a minimum.

The defense is putrid but the offense is only slightly above average with scoring only 23.5 PPG. Better than the D but not on the level of some of the offenses in the league currently.

NightTrainLayne
01-09-2009, 05:09 PM
lol you and TX are going back and forth discussing something that probably will not even be used next season if the new head coach brings in a whole new staff that he should be allowed to.

I also LOL at the people that call this a Super Bowl offense.
Really with all those turnovers and inconsistency at times a Super Bowl offense. :lol:


They are decent but to get better a lot still needs to improve, especially with Cutler and his taking care of the ball. Less picks at times. Like I said in another thread. 11-14 ints for the year is okay if you score more points and keep the "bad" picks like at the end of the Buffalo game to a minimum.

The defense is putrid but the offense is only slightly above average with scoring only 23.5 PPG. Better than the D but not on the level of some of the offenses in the league currently.

Well I was originally just trying to point out to Nature Boy that changes in the offense should be the last thing he's worried about if Bates ends up being our new coach, since we were trying to emulate Bates' offense to some degree anyways.

Medford Bronco
01-09-2009, 05:11 PM
Well I was originally just trying to point out to Nature Boy that changes in the offense should be the last thing he's worried about if Bates ends up being our new coach, since we were trying to emulate Bates' offense to some degree anyways.

okay i did not get that :doh:

I still am not overly enamored with Bates like some here
that think he is the second coming of Christ with his work
with Cutler.

Lonestar
01-09-2009, 05:16 PM
okay i did not get that :doh:

I still am not overly enamored with Bates like some here
that think he is the second coming of Christ with his work
with Cutler.


one has to wonder if he is so good why has he not taught him not to stare down the receiver, or look for OPEN receivers.. and not forcing it into uber tight spots.. if someone is double or triple covered "someone" is open..

Gimpygod
01-09-2009, 05:24 PM
The guy who came up with our offensive game plan is gone... I would rather our new OC bring in his system then try and run one he knows nothing about..

I completely disagree on this one. We have 20 some guys who have cut their teeth on this offense and would have to make major adjustments starting all over again. Would be easier for the Offensive coordinator to become familiar and then call plays than teach an entirely new system to the players. Besides, second in the NFL isn't something to be tampered with... except for the quick screen to the wide receiver, that play has a special place in hell.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 05:29 PM
okay i did not get that :doh:

I still am not overly enamored with Bates like some here
that think he is the second coming of Christ with his work
with Cutler.

While I would like to see Bates stay I've never held him up as the second coming of Christ.

As you mentioned previously turnovers and inconsistencies were big issues and I would just about bet my last dollar that it had direct impact points per game. Fix those and I bet the offense scores more points.

Also I'm in agreement with NTL that there bigger problems deal with than changing the offensive scheme.

Medford Bronco
01-09-2009, 05:33 PM
While I would like to see Bates stay I've never held him up as the second coming of Christ.

As you mentioned previously turnovers and inconsistencies were big issues and I would just about bet my last dollar that it had direct impact points per game. Fix those and I bet the offense scores more points.

Also I'm in agreement with NTL that there bigger problems deal with than changing the offensive scheme.

I did not say you TX;) some posters that is all.

I do agree that can fix the problems, but if say McDaniels who has been very successful in the NFL wants to come in and implement a new system there
is no reason to think that it wont flourish, Bates or not. I believe that the new head coach is owed that. But a lot of people here think that were were the 98 Broncos or 99 Rams the way the gush about our offense.

We have potential to do well but need to fix those problems before doing so.

Yes the defense is in need of a major revamping and if we go 3-4 that will take at least 2 years before a lot of success is attained there.

We are all in agreement on that one.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 05:40 PM
I did not say you TX;) some posters that is all.

I do agree that can fix the problems, but if say McDaniels who has been very successful in the NFL wants to come in and implement a new system there
is no reason to think that it wont flourish, Bates or not. I believe that the new head coach is owed that. But a lot of people here think that were were the 98 Broncos or 99 Rams the way the gush about our offense.

We have potential to do well but need to fix those problems before doing so.

Yes the defense is in need of a major revamping and if we go 3-4 that will take at least 2 years before a lot of success is attained there.

We are all in agreement on that one.

Hey if the new head coach whomever he may be decides to take the offense in another direction I wont complain. And I agree he should have the right to choose his own staff.

NightTrainLayne
01-09-2009, 05:43 PM
To me it should only be expected. I mean, if we fire Shanny, and then just hire someone else to run his game-plans, we might as well have kept Shanny.

I hope the new guy makes all kinds of changes. . I don't know what, but if he just tries to keep Shanny's systems around I'll be upset that we got rid of Shanny.

broncohead
01-09-2009, 05:44 PM
Hey if the new head coach whomever he may be decides to take the offense in another direction I wont complain. And I agree he should have the right to choose his own staff.

Well Pat chooses who the staff is. He decides if they stay or go. It's been proven.

Blue Run
01-09-2009, 05:59 PM
DEN hasn't shut the door on Spagnuolo's demands. Steve refuses to take a HC job without doing it his way. The front office is pulling both ways. My party's response? "This is better than the Redskins offer a year ago." That is IF they let him do it his way. Snyder was willing to give him full control a year ago, including personnel. But Snyder is Snyder.
The Giants are working hard to sign Jacobs to an extension but his agent is telling him to wait.
If Denver wants Spagnuolo, they are going to have to allow him to coach without them meddling in his affairs. We'll see who blinks first..
Thanks Broncos fans for allowing me to use this forum. It has served its purpose, and then some.
As payback, I'll have some Broncos-related draft tidbits later if anyone likes...

topscribe
01-09-2009, 06:02 PM
DEN hasn't shut the door on Spagnuolo's demands. Steve refuses to take a HC job without doing it his way. The front office is pulling both ways. My party's response? "This is better than the Redskins offer a year ago." That is IF they let him do it his way. Snyder was willing to give him full control a year ago, including personnel. But Snyder is Snyder.
The Giants are working hard to sign Jacobs to an extension but his agent is telling him to wait.
If Denver wants Spagnuolo, they are going to have to allow him to coach without them meddling in his affairs. We'll see who blinks first..
Thanks Broncos fans for allowing me to use this forum. It has served its purpose, and then some.
As payback, I'll have some Broncos-related draft tidbits later if anyone likes...

I don't think there's any problem there.

Bowlen's track record is that of letting the coach do his own thing.

-----

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 06:07 PM
I don't think there's any problem there.

Bowlen's track record is that of letting the coach do his own thing.

-----
I'll give Bowlen this he's always let his coaches do their jobs.

broncohead
01-09-2009, 06:10 PM
Spags has proven to be able to run a solid defense. Let him come in and do it his way until it doens't work

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 06:11 PM
DEN hasn't shut the door on Spagnuolo's demands. Steve refuses to take a HC job without doing it his way. The front office is pulling both ways. My party's response? "This is better than the Redskins offer a year ago." That is IF they let him do it his way. Snyder was willing to give him full control a year ago, including personnel. But Snyder is Snyder.
The Giants are working hard to sign Jacobs to an extension but his agent is telling him to wait.
If Denver wants Spagnuolo, they are going to have to allow him to coach without them meddling in his affairs. We'll see who blinks first..
Thanks Broncos fans for allowing me to use this forum. It has served its purpose, and then some.
As payback, I'll have some Broncos-related draft tidbits later if anyone likes...

Thanks for keeping us up on Spagnuolo's situation from your perspective.

Lonestar
01-09-2009, 06:20 PM
I don't think there's any problem there.

Bowlen's track record is that of letting the coach do his own thing.

-----

to do other wise is being al davis stupid..

If you do not trust the guy then DO NOT HIRE him.. pretty simple concept..

It is not like we are the browns or loins, this is a quality franchise..

red98
01-09-2009, 07:38 PM
one has to wonder if he is so good why has he not taught him not to stare down the receiver, or look for OPEN receivers.. and not forcing it into uber tight spots.. if someone is double or triple covered "someone" is open..


One of the reasons I kinda like the idea of McDaniels is that I believe he
could teach Jay a few things. He needs to read defenses better, know when to take what the D is giving him, be more accurate on his deep balls, and how to sell the fake hand off on play action.(and staring down recievers)

Jay did improve in some areas this past year like looking off safeties and such
but he needs more. Guy's got skills he just needs to learn more to get his whole game together.

Maybe it was having to score so often to stay in the game or the the lack of running game or whatever, but I wasn't that impressed with the job Bates did as far as improving his QB.

I'm ok with Bates as a play caller though.

Watchthemiddle
01-09-2009, 07:45 PM
One of the reasons I kinda like the idea of McDaniels is that I believe he
could teach Jay a few things. He needs to read defenses better, know when to take what the D is giving him, be more accurate on his deep balls, and how to sell the fake hand off on play action.(and staring down recievers)

Jay did improve in some areas this past year like looking off safeties and such
but he needs more. Guy's got skills he just needs to learn more to get his whole game together.

Maybe it was having to score so often to stay in the game or the the lack of running game or whatever, but I wasn't that impressed with the job Bates did as far as improving his QB.

I'm ok with Bates as a play caller though.

I agree with all that you said except the play calling. It seemed to fizzle down the stretch. Too many bubble screens and the like. Maybe it was a trust issue with Jay trying to force throws or what have you, but your right on Jay needing a COACH to coach him. He still throws into multiple coverage, doesn't look off anyone, doesn't check down, doesnt' give what the D is giving him, and throws off his back foot. Now is time to grab that kid and coach him before its too late.

Nature Boy
01-09-2009, 08:13 PM
I agree but I'll let YOU tell the new coach's that.

I sure will. Remind me if I forget.

.

dogfish
01-09-2009, 08:16 PM
DEN hasn't shut the door on Spagnuolo's demands. Steve refuses to take a HC job without doing it his way. The front office is pulling both ways. My party's response? "This is better than the Redskins offer a year ago." That is IF they let him do it his way. Snyder was willing to give him full control a year ago, including personnel. But Snyder is Snyder.
The Giants are working hard to sign Jacobs to an extension but his agent is telling him to wait.
If Denver wants Spagnuolo, they are going to have to allow him to coach without them meddling in his affairs. We'll see who blinks first..
Thanks Broncos fans for allowing me to use this forum. It has served its purpose, and then some.
As payback, I'll have some Broncos-related draft tidbits later if anyone likes...



make. . . it. . . . HAPPEN!


i'm not all that thrilled with the idea of paying big bucks for brandon jacobs, but i'll take spags and a defensive mentality over mcdaniels every day of the week. . . .

Gimpygod
01-09-2009, 08:18 PM
I agree with all that you said except the play calling. It seemed to fizzle down the stretch. Too many bubble screens and the like. Maybe it was a trust issue with Jay trying to force throws or what have you, but your right on Jay needing a COACH to coach him. He still throws into multiple coverage, doesn't look off anyone, doesn't check down, doesnt' give what the D is giving him, and throws off his back foot. Now is time to grab that kid and coach him before its too late.


You wouldn't believe how much better he is going to look with a defense. For instance you might think Terry Bradshaw was a good quarterback because he won four super Bowls... but he threw 210 interceptions versus 212 touchdown passes and only completed 51% of his passes throughout his career:eek::shocked:

I'm just saying a good defense will keep the offense on the field and also relieve pressure off Jay thinking he needs to score every single time... because he did have to with this defense.

BigHouseofOrange
01-09-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm just saying a good defense will keep the offense on the field and also relieve pressure off Jay thinking he needs to score every single time

I don't think Jay will ever realize, no matter how good the defense is, that he doesn't need to score every time he's on the field. Our QB, he's not much for "live to fight another day".

As long as Bates and the offensive staff stays on to help Jay continue to get better, I won't be that worried. But Jay could easily MAJORLY regress, so the new head coach better understand the situation.

BroncoWave
01-09-2009, 08:33 PM
I don't think Jay will ever realize, no matter how good the defense is, that he doesn't need to score every time he's on the field. Our QB, he's not much for "live to fight another day".

There's really no way of knowing that seeing as in most of the games this season, he HAS had to score pretty much every time he was on the field. There is no telling how is game will change if we ever get a good defense behind him.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 09:07 PM
You wouldn't believe how much better he is going to look with a defense. For instance you might think Terry Bradshaw was a good quarterback because he won four super Bowls... but he threw 210 interceptions versus 212 touchdown passes and only completed 51% of his passes throughout his career:eek::shocked:

I'm just saying a good defense will keep the offense on the field and also relieve pressure off Jay thinking he needs to score every single time... because he did have to with this defense.

Yep and that's Hall of Fame quarterback you're talking about.

Watchthemiddle
01-09-2009, 09:10 PM
Well regardless...good defense or bad, he needs to get better. Hopefully he will finally get that coaching that will break him of his bad habits...habits that he had throughout his college career as well. Its time to improve.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 09:14 PM
Well regardless...good defense or bad, he needs to get better. Hopefully he will finally get that coaching that will break him of his bad habits...habits that he had throughout his college career as well. Its time to improve.

I wish you had felt that way about the guy that came before him. Oh and Jay still hasn't thrown 20 interceptions in a season nor has he had season where he has thrown more interceptions than touchdowns.

Lonestar
01-09-2009, 09:23 PM
Well regardless...good defense or bad, he needs to get better. Hopefully he will finally get that coaching that will break him of his bad habits...habits that he had throughout his college career as well. Its time to improve.

Well he is a pretty damned fine QB as it is. But not perfect but then neither was Jake nor John before him..

I do not mind him giving up picks on deflections and such but forcing the balls into double to triple coverage needs to be slowed down.. as well as staring down the receiver he is lazer locked on.. If someone is being doubled that always means someone is open.. mikey liked that big play stuff and encouraged him to go for the gusto..


Now is bates the one to teach him these things? I do not know as he did not seem to be able to do so this past year..

Time for the new coach to come in and asses each person on staff and all the players once he has his staff of coaches and scouts assembled.. Then we can have an Idea what is on his mind..

Watchthemiddle
01-09-2009, 09:29 PM
I wish you had felt that way about the guy that came before him. Oh and Jay still hasn't 20 interceptions in a season nor has he had season where he has thrown more interceptions than touchdowns.

:rolleyes: - enough already....


Dude....all I am saying is Jay needs coaching. In my eyes, he has yet to get any and its evident on the field.

Lets look at some of his scouting CONS coming out of college, and you tell me if he has improved on any of them since coming into the NFL. Its not all his fault...did you see those words...I am not putting 100% of the blame on him.....

Cons: suffered sometimes because of a suspect OL when facing the SEC's best; would get happy feet as a result; Has Favre-like invincibility complex, which can get him in trouble sometimes.

Cons: Passing accuracy is his biggest con for him. He tries too hard to make something happen and throws off balance or into tight coverage. He needs to either throw it away or scramble with discernment. Otherwise, he has all the tools for the NFL. If he gets with a team with weapons already in place, he will probably have a better first couple of seasons than Leinart.

Cons: Cutler needs to work on not forcing the ball into coverage and he needs to make better decisions when he is on the field. He also needs to realize that he is too valuable to run into a pile or take a hit.
http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/nfl-draft/prospects/index.php?id=140


A knock against Cutler was the lack of production on terms of winning big games as well as winning any games. Vanderbilt does not have a storied football past. Cutler was threatened to get the quick hook if he struggled. He has never been exposed to a real sense of winning and one might question if he has the knack to win in the NFL.

"Cutler is still unpolished and will need lots of mechanical work in order to reach his full potential in the NFL."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9296&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d9296

3 years later, the same can be said about Jay. I am convinced that a solid coach for him can help make Jay a better QB.

mmmnfl
01-09-2009, 09:32 PM
I like the idea of McDaniels as head coach and Spagnuolo as d coordinator. If Bowlen can afford paying him, I would rather have them than NCAA coaches.

I like the post

check out my sportsblog also guys


www.thestadiumstatus.com

Lonestar
01-09-2009, 09:33 PM
:rolleyes: - enough already....


Dude....all I am saying is Jay needs coaching. In my eyes, he has yet to get any and its evident on the field.

Lets look at some of his scouting CONS coming out of college, and you tell me if he has improved on any of them since coming into the NFL. Its not all his fault...did you see those words...I am not putting 100% of the blame on him.....

Cons: suffered sometimes because of a suspect OL when facing the SEC's best; would get happy feet as a result; Has Favre-like invincibility complex, which can get him in trouble sometimes.

Cons: Passing accuracy is his biggest con for him. He tries too hard to make something happen and throws off balance or into tight coverage. He needs to either throw it away or scramble with discernment. Otherwise, he has all the tools for the NFL. If he gets with a team with weapons already in place, he will probably have a better first couple of seasons than Leinart.

Cons: Cutler needs to work on not forcing the ball into coverage and he needs to make better decisions when he is on the field. He also needs to realize that he is too valuable to run into a pile or take a hit.
http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/nfl-draft/prospects/index.php?id=140


A knock against Cutler was the lack of production on terms of winning big games as well as winning any games. Vanderbilt does not have a storied football past. Cutler was threatened to get the quick hook if he struggled. He has never been exposed to a real sense of winning and one might question if he has the knack to win in the NFL.

"Cutler is still unpolished and will need lots of mechanical work in order to reach his full potential in the NFL."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9296&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d9296

3 years later, the same can be said about Jay. I am convinced that a solid coach for him can help make Jay a better QB.

outstanding find and quote.. we sometimes forget that he was not superman coming out of college.. he has not been in winning programs since High School..

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 09:53 PM
:rolleyes: - enough already....


Dude....all I am saying is Jay needs coaching. In my eyes, he has yet to get any and its evident on the field.

Lets look at some of his scouting CONS coming out of college, and you tell me if he has improved on any of them since coming into the NFL. Its not all his fault...did you see those words...I am not putting 100% of the blame on him.....

Cons: suffered sometimes because of a suspect OL when facing the SEC's best; would get happy feet as a result; Has Favre-like invincibility complex, which can get him in trouble sometimes.

Cons: Passing accuracy is his biggest con for him. He tries too hard to make something happen and throws off balance or into tight coverage. He needs to either throw it away or scramble with discernment. Otherwise, he has all the tools for the NFL. If he gets with a team with weapons already in place, he will probably have a better first couple of seasons than Leinart.

Cons: Cutler needs to work on not forcing the ball into coverage and he needs to make better decisions when he is on the field. He also needs to realize that he is too valuable to run into a pile or take a hit.
http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/nfl-draft/prospects/index.php?id=140


A knock against Cutler was the lack of production on terms of winning big games as well as winning any games. Vanderbilt does not have a storied football past. Cutler was threatened to get the quick hook if he struggled. He has never been exposed to a real sense of winning and one might question if he has the knack to win in the NFL.

"Cutler is still unpolished and will need lots of mechanical work in order to reach his full potential in the NFL."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=9296&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl draft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d9296

3 years later, the same can be said about Jay. I am convinced that a solid coach for him can help make Jay a better QB.

First of all it's laughable to criticize his accuracy. He completes better than 60% of his passes accuracy has never been a problem.

It's a bunch of bs in my opinion for some dumbass writer who says one hand he comes from a college with a long history of not winning games and not having talent and then questioning his ability to win.

What does the threat of him getting a quick hook as a starter in college have to do with his pro career? (By the way I have serious doubts about that being true.)

If your going open the door to invite comparisons to his predecessor then expect to go through the door.

Sure better coaching can always be helpful to any player regardless of position. But that requires them to be commited trying get better, and not treating their career as a 9 to 5 job.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 09:56 PM
I like the idea of McDaniels as head coach and Spagnuolo as d coordinator. If Bowlen can afford paying him, I would rather have them than NCAA coaches.

I like the post

check out my sportsblog also guys


www.thestadiumstatus.com

Spagnuolo is not going to come to Denver as a defensive coordinator. If he leaves his current job it will be for a promotion.

claymore
01-09-2009, 09:56 PM
First of all it's laughable to criticize his accuracy. He completes better than 60% of his passes accuracy has never been a problem.

It's a bunch of bs in my opinion for some dumbass writer who says one hand he comes from a college with a long history of not winning games and not having talent and then questioning his ability to win.

What does the threat of him getting a quick hook as a starter in college have to do with his pro career? (By the way I have serious doubts about that being true.)

If your going open the door to invite comparisons to his predecessor then expect to go through the door.

Sure better coaching can always be helpful to any player regardless of position. But that requires them to be commited trying get better, and not treating their career as a 9 to 5 job.Dude needs a Defense and a run game. Its that simple.

Tned
01-09-2009, 10:00 PM
Those that are calling for Josh McDaniels to be our next Offensive Coordinator are asking for a spread offense like that of Tom Brady and the Patriots. That's a complete revamp compared to that of what Mikey left behind which is a superb offense even without a good RB. All it needs is a solid RB and it's a Super Bowl quality offense. We all know it.

.

As I posted in another thread:



For those who figured the Broncos' offensive attack looked a little like last year's Patriots, with spread formations and a lot of passes, you'd be right.

"We really liked what the Patriots were doing with some of their empty sets," quarterback Jay Cutler said, referring to some offseason study. "We've got similar weapons with our guys, with our tight ends and our backs are able to get out.

"Offensively we kind of matched up with what they were doing and we thought we might put it in, and it's working so far."

There's little doubt about the success. The Broncos are 2-0 and lead the league in yards gained and points.

The Broncos have passed the ball at a surprising rate. Cutler threw 50 passes on Sunday against San Diego, which tied a franchise record. The 2007 Patriots were the highest-scoring offense in NFL history and asking the Broncos to duplicate their numbers would be absurd. But Denver thinks the wide-open style fits their personnel, and quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates has gotten a lot of credit for his aggressive plan.

"Jeremy is doing a heck of job play-calling, changing things up," Shanahan said.

Cutler said the Broncos also studied the Steelers, Chargers, Cowboys and this week's opponent, the Saints, who are all pass-heavy teams.

"This is a copycat league and everyone looks at everyone, everyone takes plays and tweaks them here and there a little bit," Cutler said.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/sep/18/broncos-open-up-offense/?partner=RSS

The Broncos had already spent part of the offseason trying to be more Patriot-like, and much of their play calling this season reflected that.

Watchthemiddle
01-09-2009, 10:06 PM
First of all it's laughable to criticize his accuracy. He completes better than 60% of his passes accuracy has never been a problem.

It's a bunch of bs in my opinion for some dumbass writer who says one hand he comes from a college with a long history of not winning games and not having talent and then questioning his ability to win.

What does the threat of him getting a quick hook as a starter in college have to do with his pro career? (By the way I have serious doubts about that being true.)

If your going open the door to invite comparisons to his predecessor then expect to go through the door.

Sure better coaching can always be helpful to any player regardless of position. But that requires them to be commited trying get better, and not treating their career as a 9 to 5 job.


Those aren't my words, those are 5 different writers and their scouting reports. Google Jay's scouting reports and every site will have basically the same con's against him.....

So, I see that you don't want to admit to it or answer the question.....has he improved on any of that since coming to the Broncos? Besides accuracy?

Does he still throw into coverage? Yes
Does he still throw off his back foot? Yes
Does he have Farve like invincibility that gets him in trouble? Yes
Does he know how to win? No
Does he have all the tools for the NFL? Yes ( if the only tools you look for is size and a great arm)
Does he make good decisions? No
Is he still unpolished and needs some mechanical work? Yes

Coaching....thats what he needs. If he has no run game or defense to help him, Jay needs to get better..regardless. Elway did the same things basically...came from the same type of non-winning program as Vandy, but knew how to win, had a strong arm, tried to do it all on his own...and almost did, but until he got coaching he didn't do much else except put up good numbers. He has the weapons, now he just needs to learn how to utilize them.

Watchthemiddle
01-09-2009, 10:07 PM
As I posted in another thread:




The Broncos had already spent part of the offseason trying to be more Patriot-like, and much of their play calling this season reflected that.

The play calling at the beginning of the season reflected it, but not as the season went on.

Lonestar
01-09-2009, 10:09 PM
Those aren't my words, those are 5 different writers and their scouting reports. Google Jay's scouting reports and every site will have basically the same con's against him.....

So, I see that you don't want to admit to it or answer the question.....has he improved on any of that since coming to the Broncos? Besides accuracy?

Does he still throw into coverage? Yes
Does he still throw off his back foot? Yes
Does he have Farve like invincibility that gets him in trouble? Yes
Does he know how to win? No
Does he have all the tools for the NFL? Yes ( if the only tools you look for is size and a great arm)
Does he make good decisions? No
Is he still unpolished and needs some mechanical work? Yes

Coaching....thats what he needs. If he has no run game or defense to help him, Jay needs to get better..regardless. Elway did the same things basically...came from the same type of non-winning program as Vandy, but knew how to win, had a strong arm, tried to do it all on his own...and almost did, but until he got coaching he didn't do much else except put up good numbers. He has the weapons, now he just needs to learn how to utilize them.



great post.. you hit this one out of the park.. get him some great coaching and MAYBE he will become less farve like and more like manning..

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 10:29 PM
Those aren't my words, those are 5 different writers and their scouting reports. Google Jay's scouting reports and every site will have basically the same con's against him.....

So, I see that you don't want to admit to it or answer the question.....has he improved on any of that since coming to the Broncos? Besides accuracy?

Does he still throw into coverage? Yes
Does he still throw off his back foot? Yes
Does he have Farve like invincibility that gets him in trouble? Yes
Does he know how to win? No
Does he have all the tools for the NFL? Yes ( if the only tools you look for is size and a great arm)
Does he make good decisions? No
Is he still unpolished and needs some mechanical work? Yes

Coaching....thats what he needs. If he has no run game or defense to help him, Jay needs to get better..regardless. Elway did the same things basically...came from the same type of non-winning program as Vandy, but knew how to win, had a strong arm, tried to do it all on his own...and almost did, but until he got coaching he didn't do much else except put up good numbers. He has the weapons, now he just needs to learn how to utilize them.

Does he make good decisions? Yes he makes good more times than he does bad.

Does he know how to win? Get descent defense on the field and a more consistent running game and let see what happens. By the way, John Elway did have good defense that helped him out many times. Also in the years that the defense struggled so did John. That's a fact. Also John didn't put up great stats for most of the years prior to Shanahan's arrival.

Does Jay have all the tools to be a great quarterback? Anyone that's been watching knows that he has more than good height and strong arm.

Does he throw into double coverage? Yes he does, just like certain hall of famer that was in Denver 10 years ago and yet he still hasn't thrown more interceptions than touchdown.

Can he throw a pass with touch? Yes he does more than any predessors could including the Hall of Famer.

With that you and I both should let it go. Agreed? (I mean that sincerly.)

Watchthemiddle
01-09-2009, 10:34 PM
Agreed....:beer:

Its exciting to see what might come in the hopefully near future with the coaching staff and this team.

TXBRONC
01-09-2009, 10:42 PM
Agreed....:beer:

Its exciting to see what might come in the hopefully near future with the coaching staff and this team.

Agreed. :beer:

Blue Run
01-10-2009, 05:54 AM
time to keep it low guys....

we are burning the midnight oil and both sides of the candle are lit.
It's a barn burner on the east coast.
The chips are down, Spags wants his running, TOP offense and Denver wants the McD. Maybe they don't care about the D? What is McD going to run on D? He doesn't have Belichick anymore....

The chips are down, Broncos fans. DEN is waiting to be convinced....it's been a wild night...as I've told a few of your members privately...watch the agent trails....it will lead you from Spagnuolo to Jacobs to the Broncos.

Don't by into the conjecture! BP is running damage control and I'm wiped....

P.S. I promise those draft tidbits if anyone's interested. Thanks for providing a medium. You have no idea how grateful we are.

honz
01-10-2009, 07:18 AM
I gotta say...I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 09:13 AM
If you're trying to say that Spags is going to come in here and demand a TOP ball controll offense, then he can stay in NY. The personnel on this offense are suited for a down the field passing attack with a nice running game to compliment it. This offensive line is the best pass blocking line in the NFL. If he wants to try to fit a square peg into a round hole on the side of the ball that he probably knows little about, then Bowlen is better off to go with McDaniels. I can see changing the defense in whatever way suits a new head coach, because the D is talent depleted and needs to be revamped anyways.

As far as what McDaniels would do on D? Hopefully hire a great D coordinator and let him run the show on that side of the ball. Bluerun we all appreciate your insight if it's true, but are you sure you're burning up the midnight oil, and not the crack pipe?

lex
01-10-2009, 09:23 AM
If you're trying to say that Spags is going to come in here and demand a TOP ball controll offense, then he can stay in NY. The personnel on this offense are suited for a down the field passing attack with a nice running game to compliment it. This offensive line is the best pass blocking line in the NFL. If he wants to try to fit a square peg into a round hole on the side of the ball that he probably knows little about, then Bowlen is better off to go with McDaniels. I can see changing the defense in whatever way suits a new head coach, because the D is talent depleted and needs to be revamped anyways.

As far as what McDaniels would do on D? Hopefully hire a great D coordinator and let him run the show on that side of the ball. Bluerun we all appreciate your insight if it's true, but are you sure you're burning up the midnight oil, and not the crack pipe?

On the contrary. We passed too much last year. Passing also isnt as kind to the defense typically. We need to get back to the balance with an emphasis on the run and also improving the defense. Put another way, what Spags is allegedly advocating is exactly what Denver needs. Too bad Jay probably threw too big of a fit when Shanahan was fired and now Bowlen probably feels he has to cowtow to him.

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 09:29 AM
On the contrary. We passed too much last year. Passing also isnt as kind to the defense typically. We need to get back to the balance with an emphasis on the run and also improving the defense. Put another way, what Spags is allegedly advocating is exactly what Denver needs. Too bad Jay probably threw too big of a fit when Shanahan was fired and now Bowlen probably feels he has to cowtow to him.

Yeah, I really don't see that happening. I know that a strong running attack makes any offense better. I'd love to see a 50/50 split, but to run most of the time with the personnel we have on offense now would be underutilizing the talents of the people we have in place.

lex
01-10-2009, 09:32 AM
Yeah, I really don't see that happening. I know that a strong running attack makes any offense better. I'd love to see a 50/50 split, but to run most of the time with the personnel we have on offense now would be underutilizing the talents of the people we have in place.

Not really. We ran a 50/50 split with Rod, Shannon, Ed, and Terrell and won SBs doing this. And also what youre not considering, is that a good rushing probably helps the defense more than a good passing attack.

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Not really. We ran a 50/50 split with Rod, Shannon, Ed, and Terrell and won SBs doing this. And also what youre not considering, is that a good rushing probably helps the defense more than a good passing attack.

You're absolutely right on both points there Lex. However, the Rod, Shannon, Ed, and Terrell teams were much more suited for the run personnel-wise. As far as a good rushing offense helping the defense more than a good passing offense, you'll get no arguments from me.

lex
01-10-2009, 10:44 AM
You're absolutely right on both points there Lex. However, the Rod, Shannon, Ed, and Terrell teams were much more suited for the run personnel-wise. As far as a good rushing offense helping the defense more than a good passing offense, you'll get no arguments from me.

Didnt Rod and Ed each catch 100 passes in 2000? Maybe its more the case taht they seemed better suited for the run because we did run. We should be looking more at yards per pass attempt rather than attempts, which is the direction I fear we're going. If we run the ball with better balance, the yardage may not drop off that much but we may be getting more per pass play.

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 10:47 AM
Lex I'm simply looking at the way this offense has been built. We have the best pass blocking O-line in the NFL. We have a 2 pro bowl caliber WR's. We have a gun-slinger QB with pro bowl talent. We have a pass catching TE that can be a game changer when healthy. This personnel right now is suited for a pass oriented offense. I would actually prefer a 50/50 split, but we need to make some changes before we can be more successful with that.

Northman
01-10-2009, 10:49 AM
On the contrary. We passed too much last year. Passing also isnt as kind to the defense typically. We need to get back to the balance with an emphasis on the run and also improving the defense. Put another way, what Spags is allegedly advocating is exactly what Denver needs. Too bad Jay probably threw too big of a fit when Shanahan was fired and now Bowlen probably feels he has to cowtow to him.

qft

Tned
01-10-2009, 10:52 AM
time to keep it low guys....

we are burning the midnight oil and both sides of the candle are lit.
It's a barn burner on the east coast.
The chips are down, Spags wants his running, TOP offense and Denver wants the McD. Maybe they don't care about the D? What is McD going to run on D? He doesn't have Belichick anymore....

The chips are down, Broncos fans. DEN is waiting to be convinced....it's been a wild night...as I've told a few of your members privately...watch the agent trails....it will lead you from Spagnuolo to Jacobs to the Broncos.

Don't by into the conjecture! BP is running damage control and I'm wiped....

P.S. I promise those draft tidbits if anyone's interested. Thanks for providing a medium. You have no idea how grateful we are.

Who is BP?

Zweems56
01-10-2009, 10:58 AM
Can we give a most confusing poster of the year award?

Its a dead heat between ayo! ayo! jwalk, and "i never give quite enough information for you to fully understand what i'm saying," Blue Run

NightTrainLayne
01-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Thanks for providing a medium. You have no idea how grateful we are.

This is such a curious statement. I can't imagine that with the New York media that some message boards are something to be "grateful" for.

I guess we'll see.

Nomad
01-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Can we give a most confusing poster of the year award?

Its a dead heat between ayo! ayo! jwalk, and "i never give quite enough information for you to fully understand what i'm saying," Blue Run

Probably because he's full of BS! What makes him an insider??

CHARLIEADAMSFAN
01-10-2009, 11:26 AM
What the hell did he just say?

Hardwired
01-10-2009, 11:29 AM
Does it matter that he's been posting exactly the same messages on the Broncos Country forums? Including the "we're so grateful" line?

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 11:30 AM
Tned, I don't know if it would be kosher to do so, but I'd be curious to see where his IP Address is coming from.

underrated29
01-10-2009, 11:31 AM
he cant talk anymore guys- the boards are too hot. Thats what he said over at BM...

I like what he is saying but wtf, seriously-wtf. Its like talking to a schitzo. YOu get what you want for a second, but then never know when they switch and go crazy on you

Tned
01-10-2009, 11:45 AM
Tned, I don't know if it would be kosher to do so, but I'd be curious to see where his IP Address is coming from.

Northeast is all I will say in regards to his IP.

Considering all the rest of the conjecture, theorizing, speculating and stuff that has been thrown around, does it really matter?

Blue Run is posting what could be inside information or could be 'speculation', but isn't that what all of us are doing, so why sweat the 'who' behind the posts.

Zweems56
01-10-2009, 11:48 AM
Northeast is all I will say in regards to his IP.

Considering all the rest of the conjecture, theorizing, speculating and stuff that has been thrown around, does it really matter?

Blue Run is posting what could be inside information or could be 'speculation', but isn't that what all of us are doing, so why sweat the 'who' behind the posts.

I'm not sweating anything. I just wish the posts were a little more..... refined.

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 11:49 AM
Northeast is all I will say in regards to his IP.

Considering all the rest of the conjecture, theorizing, speculating and stuff that has been thrown around, does it really matter?

Blue Run is posting what could be inside information or could be 'speculation', but isn't that what all of us are doing, so why sweat the 'who' behind the posts.

True that, but none of us are claiming to be an insider, or close to the negotiations....

Just interested - we'll see if what he's saying comes true. I did read somewhere that Spags is off limits until the Giants are eliminated, or until the week between the NFCC & SB.

nevcraw
01-10-2009, 11:56 AM
all I know is I will be watching the agent trails... like a hawk!

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Dude is having a bunch of friends over. He's got wings, beer, nachos...you know, all the good party foods. He's also got 4 PCs set up. 1 for each Bronco site he's posted the same thing on. He and his buddies watch in delight as everyone tries to make heads or tails of his posts. The theme of his party: let's screw w/ the Bronco fans.

G_Money
01-10-2009, 12:02 PM
Northeast is all I will say in regards to his IP.

Considering all the rest of the conjecture, theorizing, speculating and stuff that has been thrown around, does it really matter?

Blue Run is posting what could be inside information or could be 'speculation', but isn't that what all of us are doing, so why sweat the 'who' behind the posts.

Yep, just read it and pull what you want from it. It's not like you're buying stocks based on this inside information.

It just gives us stuff to talk about while we wait around for the decision.

Just take it as being well-intentioned instead of something weird or petty, use it for conversation, and maybe we can all get through this waiting period without losing our damn minds. :coffee:

~G

underrated29
01-10-2009, 12:35 PM
well it would be sick if it was spags. As we get a D guy, plus he "will" supposidly bring over jacobs and or another d player or too.

That only helps us out more. Less draft needs and players we know will produce.

But i have a feeling it will be mcdonalds.

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 12:37 PM
Who is BP?

I was wondering the same thing. Whoever it is, it soundlike it might be the person who runs the public reations for the Giants.

Zweems56
01-10-2009, 12:42 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Whoever it is, it soundlike it might be the person who runs the public reations for the Giants.

No BP's in the coaching staff or the front office according to the Giants home page

Tned
01-10-2009, 12:43 PM
well it would be sick if it was spags. As we get a D guy, plus he "will" supposidly bring over jacobs and or another d player or too.

That only helps us out more. Less draft needs and players we know will produce.

But i have a feeling it will be mcdonalds.

Even if Spags comes to Denver, the Broncos would still have to sign Jacobs. They will be competing not only with the Giants, but with other teams for him.

So, if Spags comes here, will Jacobs want to come here, and will Bowlen and the front office want to pay Jacobs $50 million over 7 years, or whatever he will get (something along those lines), when they likely will need to pay a couple high priced defensive free agents?

Tned
01-10-2009, 12:44 PM
No BP's in the coaching staff or the front office according to the Giants home page

Unless he meant PB

Zweems56
01-10-2009, 12:44 PM
No BP's in the coaching staff or the front office according to the Giants home page

Woah. take that back. Check this out

E. Peter John-Baptiste Director of Public Relations

I overlooked it because it wasn't BP, but...

I feel like a whore and a conspiracy theorist.

Zweems56
01-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Unless he meant PB

Heh, Great minds think alike, no? See above.

Edit: Or rather last post on 1 page back.

Nomad
01-10-2009, 12:46 PM
Dude is having a bunch of friends over. He's got wings, beer, nachos...you know, all the good party foods. He's also got 4 PCs set up. 1 for each Bronco site he's posted the same thing on. He and his buddies watch in delight as everyone tries to make heads or tails of his posts. The theme of his party: let's screw w/ the Bronco fans.

I agree! This fella is sitting back laughing his rearend off. What a life!!

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 12:49 PM
IMO, It's a complete farce. I hate when folks "can't say anything, BUT..." If he knew anything, he'd put it on the table. It's the interweb. Noone knows who you really are. Otherwise, why risk upsetting your sources at all w/ even the hints? This cryptic crap is just that. Bu as G said...still fun to speculate about.

Zweems56
01-10-2009, 12:51 PM
IMO, It's a complete farce. I hate when folks "can't say anything, BUT..." If he knew anything, he'd put it on the table. It's the interweb. Noone knows who you really are. Otherwise, why risk upsetting your sources at all w/ even the hints? This cryptic crap is just that. Bu as G said...still fun to speculate about.

So true, but its fun to speculate

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Woah. take that back. Check this out

E. Peter John-Baptiste Director of Public Relations

I overlooked it because it wasn't BP, but...

I feel like a whore and a conspiracy theorist.

Everyone makes mistakes here and there. :salute:

hamrob
01-10-2009, 12:59 PM
On the contrary. We passed too much last year. Passing also isnt as kind to the defense typically. We need to get back to the balance with an emphasis on the run and also improving the defense. Put another way, what Spags is allegedly advocating is exactly what Denver needs. Too bad Jay probably threw too big of a fit when Shanahan was fired and now Bowlen probably feels he has to cowtow to him.I sure hope Bowlen feels that way. Anybody that didn't see just how explosive an offense we have with a stud RB in the game (Hillis) is an absolute idiot. All we have to do is keep a healthy RB on the field and we dominate on that side of the ball.

For some defensive idiot to come in and change the #2 offense in the NFL would be moronic!

For all the love that we give Ryan Clady...he is not a run first LT. He is and was the perfect fit for the ZBS and for pass protecting the best young QB in the NFL. So, when someone says...that they're going to come in and change that...you might as well trade Clady and Cutler while you're at it! Yeah, that's bright! That's exactly what we need!

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 12:59 PM
IMO, It's a complete farce. I hate when folks "can't say anything, BUT..." If he knew anything, he'd put it on the table. It's the interweb. Noone knows who you really are. Otherwise, why risk upsetting your sources at all w/ even the hints? This cryptic crap is just that. Bu as G said...still fun to speculate about.

It very well could be someone who thinks its fun to dupe fans of other teams. I haven't bought into what he has said as gospel because when you come onto this site you have anonymity. That being said, he may be sincere so I've tried to be courteous.

MOtorboat
01-10-2009, 01:03 PM
It very well could be someone who thinks its fun to dupe fans of other teams. I haven't bought into what he has said as gospel because when you come onto this site you have anonymity. That being said, he may be sincere so I've tried to be courteous.

Well, if it is true, Bowlen will be paying a hefty fine to the NFL.

You can't contact opposing coaches during weeks before their playoff game.

I don't know what the rule is about agents, but I know the NFL prohibits approaching coaches for interviews during the weeks preceding playoff games.

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 01:04 PM
For some defensive idiot to come in and change the #2 offense in the NFL would be moronic!

The only thing I'll say about that statement is we were 16th in scoring.

I could care less about total yards per game if we're not putting up points.

MOtorboat
01-10-2009, 01:09 PM
P.S. You only run "damage control" when you have a public issue. I find it hard to believe that in the most hawkish media market in the country, that if they were having to run damage control, it wouldn't be all over the front pages.

broncobryce
01-10-2009, 01:21 PM
The only thing I'll say about that statement is we were 16th in scoring.

I could care less about total yards per game if we're not putting up points.

I agree with that. While I LOVE watching Jay sling the ball around, I can't even remember how many times I was yelling at the TV, "run the f'ing ball!". I think things would have been different if we had a back for more than one game, and our D wasn't complete garbage.
I want to see how much pressure the giants put on Mcnabb. Someone was saying on the radio that Spag's D wasn't getting pressure on the QB lately. I haven't watched any giants games for the last couple weeks, so it will be interesting to see.

hamrob
01-10-2009, 01:21 PM
The only thing I'll say about that statement is we were 16th in scoring.

I could care less about total yards per game if we're not putting up points.Why do you think we were taking so many chances? Could it have been because we had a completely worthless defense and next to no running game?

Our offense is excellent with a RB like Hillis in the lineup. Try having some vision in terms of what our offense would be like, if we had a defense that could stop....at least half of the other teams offensive posessions.

It's absolutely amazing how people think you need to mess with the one thing about this team that doesn't need to be fixed!

tomjonesrocks
01-10-2009, 01:23 PM
:coffee:

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 01:29 PM
Why do you think we were taking so many chances? Could it have been because we had a completely worthless defense and next to no running game?

Our offense is excellent with a RB like Hillis in the lineup. Try having some vision in terms of what our offense would be like, if we had a defense that could stop....at least half of the other teams offensive posessions.

It's absolutely amazing how people think you need to mess with the one thing about this team that doesn't need to be fixed!

To put it into perspective, we were 230 yards from being the #1 offense, yet the #1 offense put up almost 100 more points. Whether you want to believe it or not, the offense isn't a perfectly oiled machine.

Defense is clearly the #1 priority, but to have the #2 ranked offense that ranks #16 in points scored means something isn't right.

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 01:31 PM
P.S. Our running game was not worthless. We just didn't run the ball.

28th in attempts, yet 12th in yards and tied for 2nd in yards per attempt.

Whoever was calling the plays didn't commit to the running game which would have kept our sorryass defense off the field.

God, I sound like Zambini.

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 01:33 PM
To put it into perspective, we were 230 yards from being the #1 offense, yet the #1 offense put up almost 100 more points. Whether you want to believe it or not, the offense isn't a perfectly oiled machine.

Defense is clearly the #1 priority, but to have the #2 ranked offense that ranks #16 in points scored means something isn't right.

I think means one we turned the ball over way to much and we didn't create nearly enough turnovers to help the offense.

hamrob
01-10-2009, 01:51 PM
P.S. Our running game was not worthless. We just didn't run the ball.

28th in attempts, yet 12th in yards and tied for 2nd in yards per attempt.

Whoever was calling the plays didn't commit to the running game which would have kept our sorryass defense off the field.

God, I sound like Zambini. Sound like? You are Zam!

Do you really think we would have been throwing that much if we didn't feel like we had to. Sure we averaged 5yds a carry...but only becasue running the ball was our 2nd option and the defense was expecting pass.

The only guy that any defense was afraid of was Hillis. Take a peak at what our average starting possession was compared to our apponents. Then take a peak at the number of turnovers we got on defense...uh...13...total!

The only thing that will change on offense will be that we improve our backfield. You don't have guys like Clady, Cutler, Marshall, Royal, Stokly, Scheffler etc. etc. etc. to be a run control offense.

Say whatever you want...Jay Cutler has more of a voice then you are giving him respect for!

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 02:00 PM
Sound like? You are Zam!

I know. I had to puke after writing that.

As far as TO's, we did only create 13.

HOWEVER, the offense turned it over 30 times. Doesn't help the defense much.

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 02:08 PM
I know. I had to puke after writing that.

As far as TO's, we did only create 13.

HOWEVER, the offense turned it over 30 times. Doesn't help the defense much.

True, but if we ever get a decent defense, the offense won't have to go out on the field with the mentality that they need to score on every possession to have a chance to win. That will decrease turnovers.


Now why do I feel a chicken and egg argument coming?

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 02:15 PM
Yea we ran the spread offense or went pass happy however you wanna look at it because we had to, our defense was unable to keep a lead. We also did not have a reliable RB to go to so it was all on Cutler's arm.

What good going pass happy got us huh?

The ideal offense is half run, half pass. That's just football 101. Too keep the opposing defense off balanced and guessing.

.

To be fair, NE had 534 pass/513 run ratio in 08, but that was because they were breaking in a Nobody at QB for most of the season and if you watch the Patriots you know that a significant amount of the runs are a draw from the Shotgun.

07 was a different story, NE had 586 pass/451 run ratio.......The Spread Offense is Arena Football League junk.......

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 02:20 PM
Why does every thread turn into a bash Jay Cutler thread with the same F'ing people?

Jay Cutler is fine the way he is, you're the ones that needs to improve.......

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 02:25 PM
Why does every thread turn into a bash Jay Cutler thread with the same F'ing people?

Jay Cutler is fine the way he is, you're the ones that needs to improve.......


NO Jay is not fine as he is.. He needs to improve.. slightly if he can get over the EGO thingy and deal with other WRs on the filed other than Marshall when he is doubled or tripled he will develop into an outstanding QB not just another above average one..

A great mentor/QB coach could make him into a great field general like Brady or Manning type.

Tned
01-10-2009, 02:28 PM
P.S. Our running game was not worthless. We just didn't run the ball.

28th in attempts, yet 12th in yards and tied for 2nd in yards per attempt.

Whoever was calling the plays didn't commit to the running game which would have kept our sorryass defense off the field.

God, I sound like Zambini.

It's hard to keep calling running plays when backs keep going down with injuries.

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 02:31 PM
True, but if we ever get a decent defense, the offense won't have to go out on the field with the mentality that they need to score on every possession to have a chance to win. That will decrease turnovers.


Now why do I feel a chicken and egg argument coming?

Agreed! One affects the other.

BroncoJoe
01-10-2009, 02:34 PM
It's hard to keep calling running plays when backs keep going down with injuries.

We didn't have a single back that averaged less than 4.1 ypc. Not one. Regardless of who's back there, the line was opening holes.

Look at those numbers again -

28th in attempts.

12th in yards.

2nd in YPC.

Combine that with 24 turnovers directly attributed to the passing game (18 INT's and 6 Cutler fumbles), there should be some concern on the offensive side as well.

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 02:36 PM
NO Jay is not fine as he is.. He needs to improve.. slightly if he can get over the EGO thingy and deal with other WRs on the filed other than Marshall when he is doubled or tripled he will develop into an outstanding QB not just another above average one..

A great mentor/QB coach could make him into a great field general like Brady or Manning type.

You're nitpicking.

He's already outstanding, he carried a 2-14 team to an 8-8 record, give that same offense a legitimate defense and let the dude play football the way he wants to play football.

I like that he tries to make plays instead of worrying about stats and meaningless shit like that, I remember some pretty good Broncos QB's that played the same way.

I don't care for bed-wetting QB's that are afraid of failure, I remember one Broncos QB in particular that played that way and still threw Int's.......

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 02:43 PM
You're nitpicking.

He's already outstanding, he carried a 2-14 team to an 8-8 record, give that same offense a legitimate defense and let the dude play football the way he wants to play football.

I like that he tries to make plays instead of worrying about stats and meaningless shit like that, I remember some pretty good Broncos QB's that played the same way.

I don't care for bed-wetting QB's that are afraid of failure, I remember one Broncos QB in particular that played that way and still threw Int's.......



so your content with the 18 picks most of which could have been avoided had he either not stared down his WR or forced it into a VERY small hole..

Personally excepting perhaps Clady I feel everyone on Offense can improve their game..

Look I'm not saying he is bad, he just needs to improve.. and having a great QB can't hurt him..

Mikey made even HOF QB John Elway a much better QB when he came to town..

Tned
01-10-2009, 02:49 PM
We didn't have a single back that averaged less than 4.1 ypc. Not one. Regardless of who's back there, the line was opening holes.

Look at those numbers again -

28th in attempts.

12th in yards.

2nd in YPC.

Combine that with 24 turnovers directly attributed to the passing game (18 INT's and 6 Cutler fumbles), there should be some concern on the offensive side as well.

I never said the running game wasn't effective, I said it is hard to keep calling running plays when your backs keep going down. How many games did we have our starting back go down with an injury? How many did we have the starter and backup go down?

LRtagger
01-10-2009, 02:49 PM
What happened to the other thread this guy started this morning? I was about halfway through it and *POOF* gone.

Tned
01-10-2009, 02:50 PM
You're nitpicking.

He's already outstanding, he carried a 2-14 team to an 8-8 record, give that same offense a legitimate defense and let the dude play football the way he wants to play football.

I like that he tries to make plays instead of worrying about stats and meaningless shit like that, I remember some pretty good Broncos QB's that played the same way.

I don't care for bed-wetting QB's that are afraid of failure, I remember one Broncos QB in particular that played that way and still threw Int's.......

The Broncos weren't a 2 win team. If Cutler had gone down in game 1, they wouldn't have been a 2 win team.

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 02:52 PM
so your content with the 18 picks most of which could have been avoided had he either not stared down his WR or forced it into a VERY small hole..

Personally excepting perhaps Clady I feel everyone on Offense can improve their game..

Look I;m not saying he is bad just need to improve.. and having a great QB can't hurt him..

Mikey made even HOF QB John Elway a much better QB when he came to town..

I don't have a problem with 18 Int's, I'm just not as emotionally scarred by Int's as the rest of you.......I wasn't with Elway, Favre or even Plummer, and I'm not with Cutler, Brees, Manning.

I don't care if the QB is perfect and I sure as hell don't want to watch a game manager like Chad Pennington wet the bed for 60 minutes during the season and then throw 4 Int's when he is forced to make something happen like he did in the playoff game.......

Tned
01-10-2009, 02:52 PM
What happened to the other thread this guy started this morning? I was about halfway through it and *POOF* gone.

Looks like a mod merged it into this one, so that thread is going to be intermixed with this one based on post date.

LRtagger
01-10-2009, 02:54 PM
Looks like a mod merged it into this one, so that thread is going to be intermixed with this one based on post date.

ugh so now i have to weed through all the crap about Cutler :mad:

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't "accept" 18 Int's, I accept that it is and probably always will be be a part of how Cutler plays.......

Tned
01-10-2009, 02:57 PM
I don't "accept" 18 Int's, I accept that it is and probably always will be be a part of how Cutler plays.......

Elway was never among the league low in INTs, because he made high risk/high reward throws.

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 02:57 PM
What happened to the other thread this guy started this morning? I was about halfway through it and *POOF* gone.


I merged the two threads as there were concurrent conversations going in both of them..

Might as well have them all in one SPAGS thread.. sorry I did not notifiy everyone..

I normally do when I merge threads..

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Elway was never among the league low in INTs, because he made high risk/high reward throws.

And that's what I grew up watching, I don't know what the rest of Broncos fans were watching, that's my kind of QB.......

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 03:06 PM
And that's what I grew up watching, I don't know what the rest of Broncos fans were watching, that's my kind of QB.......

but remember that John also carried his team to 5 superbowls the ultimate in rewards, so far Jay is just another loser QB.. that tosses alot of stupid picks..

frauschieze
01-10-2009, 03:07 PM
I merged the two threads as there were concurrent conversations going in both of them..

Might as well have them all in one SPAGS thread.. sorry I did not notifiy everyone..

I normally do when I merge threads..

It makes sense to merge based on topic, but it makes the thread very difficult to read since both went on for quite a while at the same time. Two very different conversations going on at once. Just to note....

Thanks for letting us know what happened.

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 03:11 PM
we have like 6 different threads taking about a new head coach If I could find a grace full way to merge them I would.. but both of these where by the same starter and were essentially saying the same thing..

I hate having to post almost the same thing in 5-6 threads. AS I'm sure many others do either...

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 03:14 PM
Elway was never among the league low in INTs, because he made high risk/high reward throws.

Elway was also a warrior and a leader, who didn't whine, pout, or throw teammates under the bus. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Cutler hater, actually just the opposite. I'm a big Cutler fan. If you want to compare his game to Elway's, then you need to compare wins, attitude and leadership also. Cutler has some growing up to do. Elway also did early on, but he seemed to be able to overcome his mistakes most of the time. Elway may have had a better defense early on, but he sure as heck didn't have much talent around him on the offense. He carried 3 teams to Super Bowls that had no business being there, and wouldn't have gotten there with any other QB.

BroncoWave
01-10-2009, 03:15 PM
but remember that John also carried his team to 5 superbowls the ultimate in rewards, so far Jay is just another loser QB.. that tosses alot of stupid picks..

:rolleyes: So when did football stop being a team game?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 03:15 PM
we have like 6 different threads taking about a new head coach If I could find a grace full way to merge them I would.. but both of these where by the same starter and were essentially saying the same thing..

I hate having to post almost the same thing in 5-6 threads. AS I'm sure many others do either...

At this point, they all say the same thing,

Mizzou is gonna grow a beard.
WOW, how long ill that take?
3 weeks
hahaha...salute
you should post pics
BTW, does Spags have a beard
i dunno, anyone have a pic
mcdaniels is too young to have a beard and since Sanny didn't have a beard, we should get McD.
I dunno, Morris could rock a swet beard, but he hasn't had one long enough
eh...not so sure.
well...I still think if we're gonna make a change, we should go w/ Spags who has a beard.

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Elway was also a warrior and a leader, who didn't whine, pout, or throw teammates under the bus. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Cutler hater, actually just the opposite. I'm a big Cutler fan. If you want to compare his game to Elway's, then you need to compare wins, attitude and leadership also. Cutler has some growing up to do. Elway also did early on, but he seemed to be able to overcome his mistakes most of the time. Elway may have had a better defense early on, but he sure as heck didn't have much talent around him on the offense. He carried 3 teams to Super Bowls that had no business being there, and wouldn't have gotten there with any other QB.


Outstanding post better than what I just posted..

I'd add that I do not think that Jay could have carried those teams to a super bowl..

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 03:18 PM
:rolleyes: So when did football stop being a team game?


a couple of years ago when Jake rubbed so many the wrong way..:laugh::laugh:

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 03:18 PM
but remember that John also carried his team to 5 superbowls the ultimate in rewards, so far Jay is just another loser QB.. that tosses alot of stupid picks..

See, in this post you're expecting Cutler to be as good as Elway, but I know enough about John Elway to know that's never going to happen.

At least I remember that Elway was throwing stupid picks right up to the end, just like every single QB that's ever played the game.

I'll take that "Loser QB" over any Broncos QB not named Elway any day of the week, you guy's have fun in your search for whatever it is you are looking for in a QB.......

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 03:20 PM
Jake Plummer is the worst thing to ever happen to some Broncos fans, common sense and credibility went right out he window.......

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 03:21 PM
See, in this post you're expecting Cutler to be as good as Elway, but I know enough about John Elway to know that's never going to happen.

At least I remember that Elway was throwing stupid picks right up to the end, just like every single QB that's ever played the game.

I'll take that "Loser QB" over any Broncos QB not named Elway any day of the week, you guy's have fun in your search for whatever it is you are looking for in a QB.......

That's something a typical white person would say.:beer:

Ziggy
01-10-2009, 03:21 PM
See, in this post you're expecting Cutler to be as good as Elway, but I know enough about John Elway to know that's never going to happen.

At least I remember that Elway was throwing stupid picks right up to the end, just like every single QB that's ever played the game.

I'll take that "Loser QB" over any Broncos QB not named Elway any day of the week, you guy's have fun in your search for whatever it is you are looking for in a QB.......


I can't speak for everyone, but what I'm looking for is a more mature Cutler. I have faith that with the right coaching and time, it will happen.

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 03:23 PM
See, in this post you're expecting Cutler to be as good as Elway, but I know enough about John Elway to know that's never going to happen.

At least I remember that Elway was throwing stupid picks right up to the end, just like every single QB that's ever played the game.

I'll take that "Loser QB" over any Broncos QB not named Elway any day of the week, you guy's have fun in your search for whatever it is you are looking for in a QB.......

Do not take it personally..

Jay has the makings to be the best ever.. IMO he just needs to tweak and few areas to become what he can be.. a great mentor like mikey was to John can make him into that..

Now that said if we really want to talk about Jay someone start a thread as this one is about spags..

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Do not take it personally..

Jay has the makings to be the best ever.. IMO he just needs to tweak and few areas to become what he can be.. a great mentor like mikey was to John can make him into that..

Now that said if we really want to talk about Jay someone start a thread as this one is about spags..


:focus:

when is Jay gonnagrow a beard?
Jake had one...and so does Spags.

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 03:29 PM
when is Jay gonnagrow a beard?
Jake had one...and so does Spags.

when he gets rid of the Prince haircut and grows out of puberty

Tned
01-10-2009, 03:32 PM
but remember that John also carried his team to 5 superbowls the ultimate in rewards, so far Jay is just another loser QB.. that tosses alot of stupid picks..

Just remember that Jay has yet to line up under the guard for the snap, and that it wasn't until John's FOURTH season that the 'drive' and his legend began.

Next year is Jay's fourth year. QBs don't mature overnight, just ask Oak, AZ and Tenn about that. Drew Brees didn't blossom until his third or fourth year.

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 03:32 PM
I can't speak for everyone, but what I'm looking for is a more mature Cutler. I have faith that with the right coaching and time, it will happen.

Let me guess, you don't like his post loss attitude? Personally, I couldn't care less, I never watch interviews and I think attitude is changing in young professional athletes. It's something he'll grow out of, imo.

Now I'm sure I'll get a bunch of responses about how Cutler yelled at Eddie Royal for dropping 2 passes in a row, but as long as he's not embarrassing the organization, like Rivers bumping his gum's at everybody, I'm fine......

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 03:44 PM
but remember that John also carried his team to 5 superbowls the ultimate in rewards, so far Jay is just another loser QB.. that tosses alot of stupid picks..

John carried the offense and had a defense good enough to get to those five Super Bowl. Also when the defense was bad John's stats were worse.

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 03:56 PM
Elway was also a warrior and a leader, who didn't whine, pout, or throw teammates under the bus. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Cutler hater, actually just the opposite. I'm a big Cutler fan. If you want to compare his game to Elway's, then you need to compare wins, attitude and leadership also. Cutler has some growing up to do. Elway also did early on, but he seemed to be able to overcome his mistakes most of the time. Elway may have had a better defense early on, but he sure as heck didn't have much talent around him on the offense. He carried 3 teams to Super Bowls that had no business being there, and wouldn't have gotten there with any other QB.

If those teams from John's early years had no business being in those Super Bowl, they would have never gotten there. The teams that Denver faced were superior in every way but the Broncos still earned the right be there. Also if John carried those teams that would mean he didn't have defense that could help him out. Since I see his entire I know he did have defense that helped him out.

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 03:57 PM
Let me guess, you don't like his post loss attitude? Personally, I couldn't care less, I never watch interviews and I think attitude is changing in young professional athletes. It's something he'll grow out of, imo.

Now I'm sure I'll get a bunch of responses about how Cutler yelled at Eddie Royal for dropping 2 passes in a row, but as long as he's not embarrassing the organization, like Rivers bumping his gum's at everybody, I'm fine......

Some people either forget or don't realize John had his run in with teammates and the media in his early career.

Nomad
01-10-2009, 04:10 PM
Why is it when people want Jay to carry himself differently say in attitude and leadership, everyone wants to compare him to Elway or Plummer. Who gives a crap, different teams, players and coaches. QBs throw picks it part of the game, but also most QBs are known as the leaders of their teams. I would like to see Cutler carry himself in a more mature, leadership way especially if he's going to throw his ego around, though players need one to be the best!

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Some people either forget or don't realize John had his run in with teammates and the media in his early career.

Some conveniently forget Elway's imperfections and for some it's different because Jay Cutler isn't Jake Plummer.

Jay Cutler isn't allowed to have imperfections because Plummer fans took so much abuse for his.

I find it hard to take anybody serious if they criticize Cutler's Int's when they made excuses for Plummer, it's almost as if they're pretending that what they said in the Jake wars never happened.......

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 04:22 PM
I don't know if it's possible for me to care any less about Cutler's "immaturity".

Call me when he gets caught w/ a hooker and an 8 ball.

topscribe
01-10-2009, 04:22 PM
Some conveniently forget Elway's imperfections and for some it's different because Jay Cutler isn't Jake Plummer.

Jay Cutler isn't allowed to have imperfections because Plummer fans took so much abuse for his.

I find it hard to take anybody serious if they criticize Cutler's Int's when they made excuses for Plummer, it's almost as if they're pretending that what they said in the Jake wars never happened.......

Well, it couldn't be me because I've offered excuses for both.

Now, would you like to hear my excuses for Griese? :D

-----

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 04:23 PM
Some conveniently forget Elway's imperfections and for some it's different because Jay Cutler isn't Jake Plummer.

Jay Cutler isn't allowed to have imperfections because Plummer fans took so much abuse for his.

I find it hard to take anybody serious if they criticize Cutler's Int's when they made excuses for Plummer, it's almost as if they're pretending that what they said in the Jake wars never happened.......

Some not all rabid Jake Plummer were not innocent victims.

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 04:23 PM
Well, it couldn't be me because I've offered excuses for both.

Now, would you like to hear my excuses for Griese? :D

-----

You might as well. ;)

Nomad
01-10-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't know if it's possible for me to care any less about Cutler's "immaturity".

Call me when he gets caught w/ a hooker and an 8 ball.

Talking on the football field! I could care less what they do off the field!

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 04:29 PM
I was just as big of a St Jaker as anybody, I was also a member of D.O.G Nation.

Denver Broncos QB's receive far more than their share of criticism, period, every thread turns into QB criticism.......

Lonestar
01-10-2009, 06:41 PM
Some conveniently forget Elway's imperfections and for some it's different because Jay Cutler isn't Jake Plummer.

Jay Cutler isn't allowed to have imperfections because Plummer fans took so much abuse for his.

I find it hard to take anybody serious if they criticize Cutler's Int's when they made excuses for Plummer, it's almost as if they're pretending that what they said in the Jake wars never happened.......

what is good for the goose?

If Jake had had his arm then I'd be less hard on Jay for his imperfections..

Jay has a huge future in front of him and can be one of the best IF he gets it in between his ears otherwise he could also be Jeff George..

I know which one I want..

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 08:05 PM
what is good for the goose?

If Jake had had his arm then I'd be less hard on Jay for his imperfections..

Jay has a huge future in front of him and can be one of the best IF he gets it in between his ears otherwise he could also be Jeff George..

I know which one I want..

There is nothing wrong with what's between Cutler's ears, that's just something people talk about when they run out of legitimate criticisms.

Jay Cutler had an outstanding season, it's amusing that we're even discussing this, because Plummer was never this good and it had very little to do with his arm. He just wasn't this good, he and Jeff George should be so imperfect.......

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 08:18 PM
what is good for the goose?

If Jake had had his arm then I'd be less hard on Jay for his imperfections..

Jay has a huge future in front of him and can be one of the best IF he gets it in between his ears otherwise he could also be Jeff George..

I know which one I want..


If Jake had a better arm you would be less hard on Jay. That doesn't make much sense to me. A ten year veteran who makes the same mistakes a rookie does gets a pass because he doesn't have as strong of an arm.

Jeff George was labeled a coach killer because he was very uncoachable. Jay has to date never been accused of being uncoachable. Now if have something other than your criticism please share I would like to see it.

TXBRONC
01-10-2009, 08:20 PM
There is nothing wrong with what's between Cutler's ears, that's just something people talk about when they run out of legitimate criticisms.

Jay Cutler had an outstanding season, it's amusing that we're even discussing this, because Plummer was never this good and it had very little to do with his arm. He just wasn't this good, he and Jeff George should be so imperfect.......

Cutler has never been accused of being uncoachable by the media as far as I know.

Jake could have been better than he was, but he didn't want to take the time to study.

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2009, 08:39 PM
There is nothing wrong with what's between Cutler's ears, that's just something people talk about when they run out of legitimate criticisms.

Jay Cutler had an outstanding season, it's amusing that we're even discussing this, because Plummer was never this good and it had very little to do with his arm. He just wasn't this good, he and Jeff George should be so imperfect.......

When people talk about Jay's problems between his ears its because of his decision making. Its sub-par at best.

He could do better in that area. Just because he has a rocket arm, doesn't mean he has to force the issue.

As far as the comments about the Denver QB taking a lot of criticism, it works that way across the NFL about QB's. This is nothing new. Its going to be that way until someone comes in and accomplishes what Elway did.

As far as the Jake v Jay comparison's, in the NFL QB's are compared a lot on their W/L records. Just the other day the local radio station was comparing Elway's W/L record his first 3 seasons vs Jay's. Elway was something like 28-13 ( something along those lines ) and Jay's is under 500. Just got done watching the Ravens game and they interviewed Flacco saying he is the first rookie QB in history to win two playoff games. Most will say its because of his defense. But in the records books, it won't state that.

Jake had a good winning percentage once in Denver and we won a lot of games with him as the QB. Jay not so much. Jake took a lot of criticism the year we went 13-3. Unfair if you ask me, especially since we played in the AFCCG. Jake took all the criticism for Pitt slicing our defense. Unfair if you ask me.

Its always going to work both ways. Until Jay gets better in all areas of his game, stops pouting, stops hanging his shoulders when he or the team messes up, stops making rookie mistakes, he will be criticized. I wonder what it looks like to the defense when the LEADER of the team comes off the field with shoulders slumped and pouting? :confused:

Max Power
01-10-2009, 08:40 PM
How the hell did this Blue Run joker get so many high fives? He's obviously jerking our chains. He posted the same crap verbatim over at the broncos country message boards. Not to mention reports now are that Frazier and McDaniels are the finalists.

Requiem / The Dagda
01-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Well, he's obviously an insider. . . on the Jersey Turnpike Railway.

Broncos Mtnman
01-10-2009, 08:47 PM
Cutler has never been accused of being uncoachable by the media as far as I know.

Jake could have been better than he was, but he didn't want to take the time to study.

I don't know how this thread turned into a Jake/Jay thread, but you're right on about Jake not wanting to study....

The Real Reason Plummer was Replaced (http://broncotalk.net/2008/09/the-real-reason-plummer-was-replaced/)

Stefan Fatsis’s book “A Few Seconds of Panic” has revealed several interesting insights into the Broncos organization as they prepared and played in the 2006 season. The Denver Post has been promoting the book by printing sections of it in the paper. The current installment centers on Jake Plummer and his eventual benching.

The most significant issue that surfaces in the text is Mike Shanahan’s number one pet peeve - missing off-season workouts. Jake Plummer only made 85% of his off-season workouts that year (the lowest on the team). For a team captain and leader of the offense to miss ANY of the workouts in Denver is nearly as bad for your career as lying to Coach Shanahan’s face. 85% is practically a slap in the face to the team and great players like Rod Smith.

In Plummer’s case, he not only gave up $200k in workout bonuses, he JUST didn’t seem to understand why this was important to Shanahan and the team. In Fatsis’s account of his post-benching conversation with Plummer, Jake says this:

“Yeah, I missed some workouts. And you know what?” Jake lowers his head to the table and talks directly into my tape recorder. “Mike Shanahan, you can kiss my [ass] for being pissed at that. You can quote that. I made 85% of my workouts and he’s still mad about it. He still brought that up. Give me a break. That’s the dumbest [damn] thing on earth…. Well, if that’s the reason (I was benched), then I’m glad I didn’t make those. Because I don’t want to be here every day in the off-season.”

Well, there you go folks…

I loved watching Plummer play. I liked his fit in Denver’s system, but blowing off the off-season workouts and posting the lowest participation on the team is completely unacceptable from your QB. The great players at that position are the first ones to arrive and the last ones to leave. And the fact that Plummer couldn’t understand that (and was even pissed about it) makes me now understand the cold shoulder Shanahan showed him during that season - specifically related to the not telling Plummer of his benching personally.

I’m sure letplummerplay.com will have a different spin on this issue, but I think this puts to rest the real reasons behind Plummer’s benching. I can see now that Shanahan could not allow another off-season of partial participation from his starting QB. From Plummer’s own statements, he simply didn’t want to be there every day, and that attitude can have a devastating effect on the morale of the young team Shanahan was building.

I still like Jake. I still respect his decision to walk away and live his life the way he wanted. But I now also understand Shanahan’s decision making that year.

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 09:01 PM
When people talk about Jay's problems between his ears its because of his decision making. Its sub-par at best.

He could do better in that area. Just because he has a rocket arm, doesn't mean he has to force the issue.

As far as the comments about the Denver QB taking a lot of criticism, it works that way across the NFL about QB's. This is nothing new. Its going to be that way until someone comes in and accomplishes what Elway did.

As far as the Jake v Jay comparison's, in the NFL QB's are compared a lot on their W/L records. Just the other day the local radio station was comparing Elway's W/L record his first 3 seasons vs Jay's. Elway was something like 28-13 ( something along those lines ) and Jay's is under 500. Just got done watching the Ravens game and they interviewed Flacco saying he is the first rookie QB in history to win two playoff games. Most will say its because of his defense. But in the records books, it won't state that.

Jake had a good winning percentage once in Denver and we won a lot of games with him as the QB. Jay not so much. Jake took a lot of criticism the year we went 13-3. Unfair if you ask me, especially since we played in the AFCCG. Jake took all the criticism for Pitt slicing our defense. Unfair if you ask me.

Its always going to work both ways. Until Jay gets better in all areas of his game, stops pouting, stops hanging his shoulders when he or the team messes up, stops making rookie mistakes, he will be criticized. I wonder what it looks like to the defense when the LEADER of the team comes off the field with shoulders slumped and pouting? :confused:

You are the last one to talk about a QB's sub par decision making and attitude, we've all seen your act with regards to Jake Plummer, WTM, it got you banned.

As for the rest of your BS:

Cutler had to force the issue, the team had no chance to win without him!
Cutler is no more to blame for those losses than Plummer was responsible for those wins!
There is an enormous difference between what Cutler has on defense and what Plummer had.......or even Elway for Fu(ks sake.......this defense is pathetic on a historic level!
Nobody F'n cares if you don't like his attitude, least of all Cutler and the Broncos organization itself!

*****************EDIT*********************

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2009, 09:09 PM
You are the last one to talk about a QB's sub par decision making and attitude, we've all seen your act with regards to Jake Plummer, WTM, it got you banned.

As for the rest of your BS:

Cutler had to force the issue, the team had no chance to win without him!
Cutler is no more to blame for those losses than Plummer was responsible for those wins!
There is an enormous difference between what Cutler has on defense and what Plummer had.......or even Elway for Fu(ks sake.......this defense is pathetic on a historic level!
Nobody F'n cares if you don't like his attitude, least of all Cutler and the Broncos organization itself!


:laugh::laugh:

My how the tables have turned...

:laugh::laugh:

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 09:14 PM
:laugh::laugh:

My how the tables have turned...

:laugh::laugh:

I'm on the same side I've always been, at least I can say I've been consistent.......

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 09:21 PM
Jake took all the criticism for Pitt slicing our defense. Unfair if you ask me.




This statement illustrates your hypocrisy.

The fact that you think Cutler needs to improve in all area's of play but also think that Plummer was a DemiGod is a Comical Masterpiece.......

omac
01-10-2009, 09:39 PM
Cutler has never been accused of being uncoachable by the media as far as I know.

Jake could have been better than he was, but he didn't want to take the time to study.

Funny, on the other thread, someone practically shouted to move on from the Shanahan firing, yet obviously, some of those same people haven't moved on from the benching and trading of Jake Plummer. :confused:

Well, at least we haven't degenerated to the type of fans NY and Philadelphia have.

Simple Jaded
01-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Jake Plummer threw 30 Int's in this first 37 games as a Bronco, every single one of them were every bit as stupid as the 37 Cutler has thrown.

Plummer threw 55 TD's to Cutler's 54.......there is not much difference between their first 37 games with the Broncos, other than the fact that it was Cutler's first 37 professional games EVER.

Funny how much better 37 games look with a Defense, a Porn Stach and a Honda Element.......

omac
01-10-2009, 10:02 PM
Jake at his best plays the game the same way as Jeff Garcia with the Bucs. Those who like a Jake-run offense probably like watching the Bucs offense this season too. That offense is very good and very consistent, but not very explosive; with a solid defense, it's usually enough to win games ... they have to be front-runners though; playing from behind is a definite weakness. If you miss Jake's play, watch Jeff. He's really good. (added) Honestly, Garcia's even better ... he's one of the best at mobile, mistake free football.

Our offense this season has been the complete opposite; very explosive, but not consistent, since we didn't have a steady rushing offense, and we couldn't rely on our defense. We can win games from behind, but we can make a lot of mistakes trying to force plays to keep drives alive.

claymore
01-10-2009, 10:11 PM
Jake Plummer threw 30 Int's in this first 37 games as a Bronco, every single one of them were every bit as stupid as the 37 Cutler has thrown.

Plummer threw 55 TD's to Cutler's 54.......there is not much difference between their first 37 games with the Broncos, other than the fact that it was Cutler's first 37 professional games EVER.

Funny how much better 37 games look with a Defense, a Porn Stach and a Honda Element.......

Those offenses also featured a running game, and were masked by the bootleg. We cant even run the bootleg because no one is scared of the run anymore.

Jay Cutler, to me, is a far better Athlete, Competitor, and is way smarter than Plummer could ever be.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 11:11 PM
Jake at his best plays the game the same way as Jeff Garcia with the Bucs. Those who like a Jake-run offense probably like watching the Bucs offense this season too. That offense is very good and very consistent, but not very explosive; with a solid defense, it's usually enough to win games ... they have to be front-runners though; playing from behind is a definite weakness. If you miss Jake's play, watch Jeff. He's really good. (added) Honestly, Garcia's even better ... he's one of the best at mobile, mistake free football.

Our offense this season has been the complete opposite; very explosive, but not consistent, since we didn't have a steady rushing offense, and we couldn't rely on our defense. We can win games from behind, but we can make a lot of mistakes trying to force plays to keep drives alive.

Dude...Jake was goin deep to Ashlie Lelie on a weekly basis. They were quite explosive IMO.

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2009, 11:17 PM
This statement illustrates your hypocrisy.

The fact that you think Cutler needs to improve in all area's of play but also think that Plummer was a DemiGod is a Comical Masterpiece.......

Koolaid rushes are comical too....until you crash from all of the sugar.

:coffee: <---better to stick with black coffee

Requiem / The Dagda
01-10-2009, 11:19 PM
Dude, if you aren't going to talk about Spags in this thread -- just stay out. Who the **** cares about Jake Plummer? Let a dead dog lie.

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Dude, if you aren't going to talk about Spags in this thread -- just stay out. Who the **** cares about Jake Plummer? Let a dead dog lie.

Amen brotha!!

I am just glad I wasn't the first in the thread to veer off topic.

Bring in Spag's so we can get a good D going....bring in a creative OC so we can stop being so conservative with our play calling.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Dude, if you aren't going to talk about Spags in this thread -- just stay out. Who the **** cares about Jake Plummer? Let a dead dog lie.

But he has a beard.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-10-2009, 11:24 PM
Besides, there is only so much we can say about the dude.

omac
01-10-2009, 11:50 PM
Dude...Jake was goin deep to Ashlie Lelie on a weekly basis. They were quite explosive IMO.

Garcia could too. Garcia was phenomenal from 2000-2002 with the 49ers. But mainly, they (the Bucs) go ball control; to me, Jake at his best was at running a ball-control offense, like he did in 2005. First 6 years of his career, he had a pretty bad TDxINT ratio. His best QB ratings have been in Denver, when he's thrown 302 and 456 attempts, and only 15 and 18 TDs, but giving up only 7 INTs each time. Not surprisingly, both those years, Denver was #2 in rushing offense, and had at least 20 rushing TDs. That's pretty effective running, and opens up the playaction and bootlegs, and Jake shines. :cheers:

Lonestar
01-11-2009, 12:18 AM
I'm guessing that there is nothing new on Spagnuolo?

omac
01-11-2009, 12:40 AM
I'm guessing that there is nothing new on Spagnuolo?

If the decisions is soon, I doubt it's Spagnulo; looking more and more like McDaniels, maybe Frazier.

Lonestar
01-11-2009, 12:43 AM
If the decisions is soon, I doubt it's Spagnulo; looking more and more like McDaniels, maybe Frazier.


I'd like Spags but Mc Daniels and a proven DC will work for me.. the rest of the field does absolutely NOTHING for me..

topscribe
01-11-2009, 02:41 AM
Mortensen is guessing McDaniels and Frazier as the final two:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/10/mcdaniels-frazier-the-favorites-in-denver/

and

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3823396

-----

fcspikeit
01-11-2009, 02:59 AM
Mortensen is guessing McDaniels and Frazier as the final two:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/10/mcdaniels-frazier-the-favorites-in-denver/

and

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3823396

-----

We haven't even been able to give Spags a formal interview. If they hire another guy without giving Spags the chance to look over the team and come with more insight I will be upset. We will never know if they choose the other guy because they wanted him or because they couldn't talk with Spags.. IMO they should at least give him a fair shake..

UnderArmour
01-11-2009, 03:00 AM
Mortensen is guessing McDaniels and Frazier as the final two:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/10/mcdaniels-frazier-the-favorites-in-denver/

and

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3823396

-----

I'd wait until I hear what Adam Schefter has to say. Mortenson can't be trusted for accuracy.

Shazam!
01-11-2009, 03:04 AM
We haven't even been able to give Spags a formal interview. If they hire another guy without giving Spags the chance to look over the team and come with more insight I will be upset. We will never know if they choose the other guy because they wanted him or because they couldn't talk with Spags.. IMO they should at least give him a fair shake..

If the NYG win they won't get Spags. I don't think they want to risk waiting and him going elsewhere. Besides, NY can keep him and offer him more money. If they wait and somehow lose Spags, then go and get someone we don't want, the Broncos could be in worse shape, and we'd all be pissed.

I think it'll be McDaniels if the Giants win and Spags if they lose. It's all contingent on tomorrows game. I guess we're all lookung at Philly to win.