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battherastard
11-09-2011, 11:10 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823f4875/article/romo-still-cant-win-the-big-one-even-in-most-overrated-poll

I honestly don't understand this whatsoever. He is easily the most criticized player in the NFL. This makes me want to go head-first into an electric fence:tsk:

hamrob
11-09-2011, 11:24 PM
It makes a lot of sense actually.

I don't think that people or players really dislike Tebow. But, the kid has only started 6 NFL games...and he gets more attention then Tom Brady. His jersey was the #1 seller for months.

I thought the fact that only 22 players voted for him, when Romo received 21 votes was pretty good.

There is a lot of jealousy surrounding Tebow (point blank). He's also got to play for at least a full season (or 11 games at least), before anyone can even begin to rate him, in my opinion.

wayninja
11-09-2011, 11:25 PM
Maybe that's the point. Maybe they feel he sucks so bad that the media is being kind to him.

chazoe60
11-09-2011, 11:32 PM
Yeah all I ever see or read is how bad the kid sucks, he must be overrated.

igoe4broncos
11-09-2011, 11:40 PM
Overcovered yes, but certainly not overrated.

horsepig
11-09-2011, 11:43 PM
Just nonsense.

MOtorboat
11-09-2011, 11:50 PM
Interesting that it was players voting.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-09-2011, 11:52 PM
TT got one more vote than Tony Romo

BeefStew25
11-09-2011, 11:53 PM
It is because he is white.

Love,

Bailey The Best

Lancane
11-10-2011, 12:10 AM
Not really surprising, he's pretty much been overly hyped by his own fanatical fan base and statistically he's one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. Add in that he get's media coverage like he's elite or showing signs of promise when he's not...the term overrated makes perfect sense. And I'm not saying that out of slight, but when you think about it logically, it makes sense that his peers view him in that light.

chazoe60
11-10-2011, 12:33 AM
Over covered and overrated or overhyped are two different things.

I haven't heard anyone but some Tebow fans say Tebow is great at the moment.

Lancane
11-10-2011, 12:47 AM
Over covered and overrated or overhyped are two different things.

I haven't heard anyone but some Tebow fans say Tebow is great at the moment.

Not really bro. Look at it from outside the box...for a moment at least, look at how someone from another team views all of this hoopla. The mass excessive coverage is because he is so overhyped by a specific group or groups of people and in return there are others who are so rabidly against him. What have we heard from his fanatical fans here on this site alone? He's so good, he'll revolutionize the game and blah, blah, blah. As a Bronco fan it may be hard for you to see it from their point of view - because what they see is a first round quarterback in his second season who is statistically one of the worst in the league and yet he still garners so much media and fan attention. That in a sense is being overrated, even though it's by the fans.

Superchop 7
11-10-2011, 12:50 AM
At the moment....I would go with Haynesworth.

But my opinions are over-rated.

Dzone
11-10-2011, 06:13 AM
They should have asked the question: "Who is the most overpaid player?"
It definitely wouldnt be Tebow.

claymore
11-10-2011, 07:43 AM
I think Tebow is viewed as a mediocre to bad QB, if they say thats over rated we are in trouble.

claymore
11-10-2011, 08:04 AM
They should have asked the question: "Who is the most overpaid player?"
It definitely wouldnt be Tebow.

That would be Orton. Tebow is probably at top 5 since he made roughly 7 million this year.

Northman
11-10-2011, 08:07 AM
It makes a lot of sense actually.

I don't think that people or players really dislike Tebow. But, the kid has only started 6 NFL games...and he gets more attention then Tom Brady. His jersey was the #1 seller for months.



^This

I understand it perfectly. He was the most overhyped player coming out of college. Now granted, this had little to do with Tebow himself as it was the media who blew him up to be this mega-star but it doesnt change the fact that he's been talked about way too much for a guy who has played in just a few games.

Mike
11-10-2011, 08:55 AM
Overcovered yes, but certainly not overrated.

/thread

slim
11-10-2011, 09:05 AM
Yeah, some of you guys might want to look up the definition of the word overrated.

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 09:34 AM
Yeah, some of you guys might want to look up the definition of the word overrated.

Exactly. Ochocinco? Overrated. Haynesworth? Overrated. Cam Newton? Tim Tebow? Andy Dalton? Who knows. Way premature. All have respectable statistical records (QB Passer Ratings 87.1 Newton, 85.0 Dalton, 80.1 Tebow), two are winning games, but the sample size is too small and they are too new and we will see what we will see.

Mike
11-10-2011, 09:41 AM
Exactly. Ochocinco? Overrated. Haynesworth? Overrated. Cam Newton? Tim Tebow? Andy Dalton? Who knows. Way premature. All have respectable statistical records (QB Passer Ratings 87.1 Newton, 85.0 Dalton, 80.1 Tebow), two are winning games, but the sample size is too small and they are too new and we will see what we will see.

Yep, especially in Tebow's case as practically all the media pundits and half the football world thinks he is the worst FB to every play QB, and probably another quarter are in the skeptical category. Just don't get how that equates to being overrated.

slim
11-10-2011, 09:42 AM
Exactly. Ochocinco? Overrated. Haynesworth? Overrated. Cam Newton? Tim Tebow? Andy Dalton? Who knows. Way premature. All have respectable statistical records (QB Passer Ratings 87.1 Newton, 85.0 Dalton, 80.1 Tebow), two are winning games, but the sample size is too small and they are too new and we will see what we will see.

Plus, if 90% of the people on the planet think you are terrible, the word overrated really doesn't apply.

Slick
11-10-2011, 10:05 AM
I still don't get why Tebow is treated differently than any other young QB.

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 10:12 AM
I still don't get why Tebow is treated differently than any other young QB.

Perhaps he refused to buy lap dances and shots of Johnny Walker Blue for Trent Dilfer and Merrill Hoge, and they resent it? Its the only explanation that makes sense to me.

vettesplus
11-10-2011, 10:23 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823f4875/article/romo-still-cant-win-the-big-one-even-in-most-overrated-poll

I honestly don't understand this whatsoever. He is easily the most criticized player in the NFL. This makes me want to go head-first into an electric fence:tsk:

voted by his league mates...

Slick
11-10-2011, 10:25 AM
Perhaps he refused to buy lap dances and shots of Johnny Walker Blue for Trent Dilfer and Merrill Hoge, and they resent it? Its the only explanation that makes sense to me.

I wanted to start a thread because nobody touched my questions in the other thread but I can't justify starting another Tebow thread.

It's not like he declared himself the next big thing. He seems like a pretty humble kid.

It just seems like every thing he does is scrutinized to levels I have never seen before.

slim
11-10-2011, 10:28 AM
I wanted to start a thread because nobody touched my questions in the other thread but I can't justify starting another Tebow thread.

It's not like he declared himself the next big thing. He seems like a pretty humble kid.

It just seems like every thing he does is scrutinized to levels I have never seen before.

It's because of his popularity. The talking heads want ratings, above all else. Bashing TT gets them ratings (at least it did at some point, not sure how much longer that will work).

BroncoStud
11-10-2011, 10:41 AM
I think Tony Romo is a damn good QB. He makes some boneheaded mistakes but overall he has played very well for Dallas since becoming their starter.

BORDERLINE
11-10-2011, 11:27 AM
Overhyped, he is that and a bag of chips.

Overrated, as of now YEAH but he may live up to the expectations ones day.

Over Scrutinized, like no other player in the history of the NFL. Sam Bradford a #1 overall pick has not won a game this year and you don't hear zip about his play or how he is on a short leash. But also Alex Smith is doing real well but not really being talked about nationally because Tebow is taking so much of that attention.

T.K.O.
11-10-2011, 11:27 AM
Almost every comment or article about Tebow speaks of his "lack of skills" and questions his ability to play the position.
i agree with Slim....overhyped/scrutinized yes....BUT overated ?
his own coaches have somewhat "underated" him.and you rarely see that.
"that's your quarterback...really?" that story flooded the web & tv..the media chewed Tebow up and spit him out for a week after the detroit game.
did he play like shit? yes
have you heard for a week now that Carson Palmer has no business playing qb? no
the kid is facing a relentless barage from the media..they want to see him fail so that most of them can say "i told you so"
who cares....if he learns to throw from the pocket in the next year or so ,he could be a great qb.
if not we chalk it up to another McDisaster:D

rcsodak
11-10-2011, 11:28 AM
It is because he is white.

Love,

Bailey The Best
:lol:

:hi5:

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rcsodak
11-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Not really surprising, he's pretty much been overly hyped by his own fanatical fan base and statistically he's one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. Add in that he get's media coverage like he's elite or showing signs of promise when he's not...the term overrated makes perfect sense. And I'm not saying that out of slight, but when you think about it logically, it makes sense that his peers view him in that light.

Wonder how he'd have done without all the fans screaming for him, and allowing the natural nfl progression to occur.

We'll never know now......

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rcsodak
11-10-2011, 11:36 AM
Exactly. Ochocinco? Overrated. Haynesworth? Overrated. Cam Newton? Tim Tebow? Andy Dalton? Who knows. Way premature. All have respectable statistical records (QB Passer Ratings 87.1 Newton, 85.0 Dalton, 80.1 Tebow), two are winning games, but the sample size is too small and they are too new and we will see what we will see.

TT @ 80? Where'd you get that from?

He was in the 70's last year and in the 30's this year.

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Lancane
11-10-2011, 11:37 AM
Wonder how he'd have done without all the fans screaming for him, and allowing the natural nfl progression to occur.

We'll never know now......

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That's been Trent Dilfers take on the situation as well, that he's been rushed because the outcry of Tebow fans added with those of the Broncos' fans who are starved for a franchise quarterback and have been since the loss of Cutler, that it's put him (Tebow) in what could be a dire position.

Tned
11-10-2011, 11:58 AM
TT @ 80? Where'd you get that from?

He was in the 70's last year and in the 30's this year.

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RC, you back on the crack pipe? Tebow in the 30's for passer rating? Watcha smokin, Willis? :confused:

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 12:11 PM
TT @ 80? Where'd you get that from?

He was in the 70's last year and in the 30's this year.

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http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2011.htm

5 points higher than Orton, FWIW. He was 82.1 in 2010

BroncoStud
11-10-2011, 12:19 PM
Overrated? That would imply people think he is good... I don't see any of that. Even the TeBONERS are calling him a work in progress and a developmental project as far as I can tell.

Want to talk about overrated? Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, THOSE guys are overrated.

BroncoNut
11-10-2011, 12:25 PM
TT @ 80? Where'd you get that from?

He was in the 70's last year and in the 30's this year.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

thanks for commenting on this. It makes me wonder what other things Dread Posts that are completely innacurrate.

turftoad
11-10-2011, 12:27 PM
I wouldn't put to much into this except for the FACT that it was voted on by his peers.

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 12:31 PM
thanks for commenting on this. It makes me wonder what other things Dread Posts that are completely innacurrate.

:tsk:

I cited my source, bonehead. rcsodak was way off the Mark here as it happens.

Northman
11-10-2011, 12:52 PM
thanks for commenting on this. It makes me wonder what other things Dread Posts that are completely innacurrate.

Dread is correct. Tebow does have a 81.0 QB rating.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00.htm

BroncoNut
11-10-2011, 12:55 PM
:tsk:

I cited my source, bonehead. rcsodak was way off the Mark here as it happens.


Dread is correct. Tebow does have a 81.0 QB rating.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00.htm

FTR homos, I was just funnin around. But if you want to go, we'll go

Northman
11-10-2011, 12:59 PM
FTR homos, I was just funnin around. But if you want to go, we'll go


Dont make me call Missy to come over there and bitchslap you.

BroncoNut
11-10-2011, 01:01 PM
Dont make me call Missy to come over there and bitchslap you.

alright. It's all cool North. no harm, no foul

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 01:02 PM
FTR homos, I was just funnin around. But if you want to go, we'll go

North, if you are still planning on a get together with Nut this weekend please consider contacting the authorities on the D/L and having the poor soul involuntarily committed to a mental health facility. He needs some time away from society, both for his own safety and others, at least until he sorts some issues out. What "issues" I really, really don't want to know. Really.

BroncoStud
11-10-2011, 01:05 PM
thanks for commenting on this. It makes me wonder what other things Dread Posts that are completely innacurrate.

Dread was spot on, RC was wrong, AS USUAL.

Tebow QBR 2010 - 82.1
Tebow QBR 2011 - 80.1


RC needs to put down the crackpipe.

Northman
11-10-2011, 01:06 PM
North, if you are still planning on a get together with Nut this weekend please consider contacting the authorities on the D/L and having the poor soul involuntarily committed to a mental health facility. He needs some time away from society, both for his own safety and others, at least until he sorts some issues out. What "issues" I really, really don't want to know. Really.


Nah, we met up last week for Missy's birthday.

But im going now to get my very own Harry Potter timeturner so i can go back and watch Missy bitchslap him.

Ok, that was a little gay but its all i had. :lol:

Lancane
11-10-2011, 01:34 PM
The quarterback rating system is skewed, the only reason it's as high is because the lack of turnovers in all honesty. Not trying to be a ******* either, it's a simple, truthful statement. If you look at the games Tebow started this year, even with the lackluster yardage and horrid passing completion percentage, Tebow was in the 90's, the Detroit game where he had a fumble and interception, he had a rating of 56.8.

I don't think the quarterback ranking system is a valid measure of a quarterback, after all...wasn't that the same thing the Tebow fans said about the rating system in regards to Kyle Orton not long ago? Just a bit hypocritical if you ask me...

;)

T.K.O.
11-10-2011, 01:41 PM
Nah, we met up last week for Missy's birthday.


Ok, that was a little gay but its all i had. :lol:

:shocked:

Northman
11-10-2011, 01:47 PM
The quarterback rating system is skewed, the only reason it's as high is because the lack of turnovers in all honesty. Not trying to be a ******* either, it's a simple, truthful statement. If you look at the games Tebow started this year, even with the lackluster yardage and horrid passing completion percentage, Tebow was in the 90's, the Detroit game where he had a fumble and interception, he had a rating of 56.8.

I don't think the quarterback ranking system is a valid measure of a quarterback, after all...wasn't that the same thing the Tebow fans said about the rating system in regards to Kyle Orton not long ago? Just a bit hypocritical if you ask me...

;)


Its not a be all, end all but like the completion % it has its merits. Just like the win/loss for a QB, 4th quarter comebacks, etc.

But, as much as i think Tebow needs to improve i agree with Dread about something he said the other day. And that was that although Tim is missing on some throws its the one's he does make that count.

What tends to get lost in the win last week where we had a great return by Royal on ST's, great rushing by McGahee and Tebow, and some good moments on defense is that while Tim only completed 10 passes 2 of those were TD's. Thats pretty insane if you think about it.

But i do agree Lan, QB rating isnt the final verdict but damn, so far in 3 games Tim has been able to somewhat will the team to victory whether by his own play or just his leadership. That has to account for something as i never saw ANY of that in Orton regardless of his QB Rating.

Northman
11-10-2011, 01:48 PM
:shocked:

Way to edit dillweed. :lol:

BroncoStud
11-10-2011, 01:50 PM
The quarterback rating system is skewed, the only reason it's as high is because the lack of turnovers in all honesty. Not trying to be a ******* either, it's a simple, truthful statement. If you look at the games Tebow started this year, even with the lackluster yardage and horrid passing completion percentage, Tebow was in the 90's, the Detroit game where he had a fumble and interception, he had a rating of 56.8.

I don't think the quarterback ranking system is a valid measure of a quarterback, after all...wasn't that the same thing the Tebow fans said about the rating system in regards to Kyle Orton not long ago? Just a bit hypocritical if you ask me...

;)

That's sort of the point... The QBR rewards those who protect the football and produce TDs. I would much rather have a guy who isn't handing the ball to the other team than one who is completing 60% but throwing 3 ints a game.

turftoad
11-10-2011, 02:13 PM
Dread was spot on, RC was wrong, AS USUAL.

Tebow QBR 2010 - 82.1
Tebow QBR 2011 - 80.1


RC needs to put down the crackpipe.

I posted this in another thread but here it is again.

"Total QBR is a quarterback rating that takes into account all of a quarterback's contributions (passing, rushing, sacks, fumbles, penalties) to his team's scoring and winning and summarizes them into one number on a 0-100 scale, on which 50 is average.

Broncos starter Tim Tebow, who had the lowest Total QBR of the week. In fact, Tebow's Total QBR of 3.4 on 59 action plays was the lowest by any QB with at least 50 action plays in a game since 2008".

The rest here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/71...al-qbr-leaders

On another note from the article is that Stafford had the BESt QBR of the week vs our pourus defense. However, 3.4 out of 100. Tebow has the lowest QBR ever. That stat was started in 2008. They also said on Sportcenter that his rating has declined with each and every start going back to last year.

Not good.

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 02:20 PM
That's sort of the point... The QBR rewards those who protect the football and produce TDs. I would much rather have a guy who isn't handing the ball to the other team than one who is completing 60% but throwing 3 ints a game.

I disagree. I also love the QB rating system because it gives weight to YPA, the most important QB stat out there. Total yards passing is completely worthless, Completion percentage only marginally useful. TT has not done well in YPA so far, but his TD to Int rate is stellar. It all balances out and is well represented in his quite respectable 80+ QBR, which is pretty indicatave of his play. If he picks up his YPA and Comp % some he moves into the 90's easily.

Skacorica
11-10-2011, 02:25 PM
The quarterback rating system is skewed, the only reason it's as high is because the lack of turnovers in all honesty. Not trying to be a ******* either, it's a simple, truthful statement. If you look at the games Tebow started this year, even with the lackluster yardage and horrid passing completion percentage, Tebow was in the 90's, the Detroit game where he had a fumble and interception, he had a rating of 56.8.

I don't think the quarterback ranking system is a valid measure of a quarterback, after all...wasn't that the same thing the Tebow fans said about the rating system in regards to Kyle Orton not long ago? Just a bit hypocritical if you ask me...

;)

So should it also include total yards from scrimmage? If it doesn't tell the whole picture, surely we should include EVERYTHING? (Perhaps sacks and fumbles should be in there as well, to be fair)

Lancane
11-10-2011, 02:27 PM
That's sort of the point... The QBR rewards those who protect the football and produce TDs. I would much rather have a guy who isn't handing the ball to the other team than one who is completing 60% but throwing 3 ints a game.

And what about those who complete about 60%, protect the ball as well as score touchdowns?

So in fact your argument against Orton really only projects to this year, seeing as how for the last three he's had one of the fewest turnover ratios among active starting quarterbacks, he protected the ball so much he is labeled a safe game manager, had decent scoring ability within the offense to an extent and a high quarterback ranking. Sorry, just had to point that out.

And I am different BS, I like the high risk, high reward quarterbacks that put it all out on the field. I'd take Drew Brees, Payton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler over the likes of Tim Tebow any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Skacorica
11-10-2011, 02:29 PM
I posted this in another thread but here it is again.

"Total QBR is a quarterback rating that takes into account all of a quarterback's contributions (passing, rushing, sacks, fumbles, penalties) to his team's scoring and winning and summarizes them into one number on a 0-100 scale, on which 50 is average.

Broncos starter Tim Tebow, who had the lowest Total QBR of the week. In fact, Tebow's Total QBR of 3.4 on 59 action plays was the lowest by any QB with at least 50 action plays in a game since 2008".

The rest here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/71...al-qbr-leaders

On another note from the article is that Stafford had the BESt QBR of the week vs our pourus defense. However, 3.4 out of 100. Tebow has the lowest QBR ever. That stat was started in 2008. They also said on Sportcenter that his rating has declined with each and every start going back to last year.

Not good.

QBR you are referring to is ESPN's made up proprietary rating system that they will not give specifics about; not QB Rating.

turftoad
11-10-2011, 02:31 PM
QBR you are referring to is ESPN's made up proprietary rating system that they will not give specifics about; not QB Rating.

"Total QBR is a quarterback rating that takes into account all of a quarterback's contributions (passing, rushing, sacks, fumbles, penalties) to his team's scoring and winning and summarizes them into one number on a 0-100 scale, on which 50 is average."

Thats not to hard to understand. It says TOTAL QBR, not just passer rating.

Skacorica
11-10-2011, 02:32 PM
And I am different BS, I like the high risk, high reward quarterbacks that put it all out on the field. I'd take Drew Brees, Payton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler over the likes of Tim Tebow any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

So wait, you are telling me you would take three potential (two locks imo) future hall of famers over our second year QB with a half dozen starts under his belt? Man, that is some risky picking! :lol:

lgenf
11-10-2011, 02:34 PM
Not good.

I'll take his wins/loses and let the kid grow some before worrying about a qbr or total qbr

After 6 starts with this team, two coaches and a major change in FO philosophy I will let him get a full season under his belt before stating a trend is not good.

Cause so far the only trend I care about this year is that he's 2-1 so far with a chance to improve that record this week

Skacorica
11-10-2011, 02:34 PM
"Total QBR is a quarterback rating that takes into account all of a quarterback's contributions (passing, rushing, sacks, fumbles, penalties) to his team's scoring and winning and summarizes them into one number on a 0-100 scale, on which 50 is average."

Thats not to hard to understand. It says TOTAL QBR, not just passer rating.

That is not the standard that has been used for years. I was simply pointing out we were all talking about passer rating.

Lancane
11-10-2011, 02:45 PM
So should it also include total yards from scrimmage? If it doesn't tell the whole picture, surely we should include EVERYTHING? (Perhaps sacks and fumbles should be in there as well, to be fair)

A true quarterback rating should include errors, such as overthrows and under throws, throwing the ball away, grounding, interceptions and fumbles, as well as sacks or tackles for a loss that happen due to the quarterback's own actions. Sacks due to offensive line or miss blocks by tight ends or receivers should not be accounted for, just like I don't think a quarterback should be held accountable for a catchable pass which the receiver bumbles and ends up as an interception.

As to the total yards from scrimmage, that should be a different rating system altogether, because like mobile quarterbacks, you have running backs that are better receivers (Moreno) then runners or fullbacks who are better runners then receivers in that same sense. The quarterback ranking system should be to measure the quarterback in terms of passing efficiency, since most look at it from that point anyways and the league rules pretty much state that once he's beyond the line of scrimmage he's no longer a quarterback nor subject to the same protection as he would garner behind the line of scrimmage.

Maybe they could combine everything as the quarterback ranking system and create a whole new one like the PER, passing efficiency rating system.

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 02:47 PM
"Total QBR is a quarterback rating that takes into account all of a quarterback's contributions (passing, rushing, sacks, fumbles, penalties) to his team's scoring and winning and summarizes them into one number on a 0-100 scale, on which 50 is average."

Thats not to hard to understand. It says TOTAL QBR, not just passer rating.

I know, Turf, but its gimmicky and I think kind of a bogus made up ESPN thing, and the fact that it is an ESPN thing makes me deeply suspicious of its utility.

I'll stick the the old official QB rating system. I know I'm old, but I just like it :D

turftoad
11-10-2011, 02:48 PM
That is not the standard that has been used for years. I was simply pointing out we were all talking about passer rating.

I understand that. I was just posting an article on Total QBR not just passer rating.
We all know TT struggles in the passing game so why not use Total QBR since he's a running QB. Makes sense to me.

Skacorica
11-10-2011, 03:33 PM
A true quarterback rating should include errors, such as overthrows and under throws, throwing the ball away, grounding, interceptions and fumbles, as well as sacks or tackles for a loss that happen due to the quarterback's own actions. Sacks due to offensive line or miss blocks by tight ends or receivers should not be accounted for, just like I don't think a quarterback should be held accountable for a catchable pass which the receiver bumbles and ends up as an interception.

As to the total yards from scrimmage, that should be a different rating system altogether, because like mobile quarterbacks, you have running backs that are better receivers (Moreno) then runners or fullbacks who are better runners then receivers in that same sense. The quarterback ranking system should be to measure the quarterback in terms of passing efficiency, since most look at it from that point anyways and the league rules pretty much state that once he's beyond the line of scrimmage he's no longer a quarterback nor subject to the same protection as he would garner behind the line of scrimmage.

Maybe they could combine everything as the quarterback ranking system and create a whole new one like the PER, passing efficiency rating system.

Top part I agree with, second part is hogwash; who is more valuable right this second; Cam Newton or Matt Hasselbeck? Hasselbeck has a better passer rating (slightly) but Newton is obviously significantly more valuable as a QB right now because of his efficiency running the ball in.

QBR is also a piece of crap; Matt Moore over Phillip Rivers? Their passer ratings are similar (rivers is higher) but come on. Also, QBR sucks (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3865_QBR%3A_ESPN%27s_Deeply_Flawed_Made-For-TV_Stat.html) even worse than traditional ratings.

Northman
11-10-2011, 03:35 PM
Top part I agree with, second part is hogwash; who is more valuable right this second; Cam Newton or Matt Hasselbeck? Hasselbeck has a better passer rating (slightly) but Newton is obviously significantly more valuable as a QB right now because of his efficiency running the ball in.

QBR is also a piece of crap; Matt Moore over Phillip Rivers? Their passer ratings are similar (rivers is higher) but come on. Also, QBR sucks (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3865_QBR%3A_ESPN%27s_Deeply_Flawed_Made-For-TV_Stat.html) even worse than traditional ratings.

That was a pretty good article. This part made my laugh my ass off.


Now imagine your buddy sitting next to you turns to say, “You know, I’d feel a lot better about Pittsburgh’s chances if Dan Orlovsky or Tyler Thigpen was calling signals because both have a better QBR than Big Ben.”

Lancane
11-10-2011, 03:39 PM
Top part I agree with, second part is hogwash; who is more valuable right this second; Cam Newton or Matt Hasselbeck? Hasselbeck has a better passer rating (slightly) but Newton is obviously significantly more valuable as a QB right now because of his efficiency running the ball in.

QBR is also a piece of crap; Matt Moore over Phillip Rivers? Their passer ratings are similar (rivers is higher) but come on. Also, QBR sucks (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3865_QBR%3A_ESPN%27s_Deeply_Flawed_Made-For-TV_Stat.html) even worse than traditional ratings.

Hey, I said it had to change...I hate the current QBR, but effectively if we're going to have one that measures the whole of the group, we should have one that measures what most people consider the most fundamental part of the quarterback position, passing.

After all, there is an award called the NFL passing title not one that's called the NFL all around quarterback title?

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 03:47 PM
That was a pretty good article. This part made my laugh my ass off.

I liked where the ESPN stat proved that Dan Orlovsky and Tyler Thigpen were both better than Roethlisberger. ESPN = dog crap.

Poet
11-10-2011, 03:51 PM
Dread, I will like any stats that make Andy Dalton look good and ignore any that point out his flaws.

Lancane
11-10-2011, 03:52 PM
I liked where the ESPN stat proved that Dan Orlovsky and Tyler Thigpen were both better than Roethlisberger. ESPN = dog crap.

And that's the fallibility of the quarterback ranking system.

Talking about Ben Roethlisberger, Randy Fichtner the Pittsburgh's Quarterback Coach, I would love to see him hired as Denver's next Offensive Coordinator!

:D

Dreadnought
11-10-2011, 03:53 PM
Dread, I will like any stats that make Andy Dalton look good and ignore any that point out his flaws.

Andy Dalton has been good. The good ol' QB rating system says so, as does the W-L record.

Lancane
11-10-2011, 03:54 PM
Dread, I will like any stats that make Andy Dalton look good and ignore any that point out his flaws.

King, I don't think anyone doubts that Dalton is a solid young quarterback, no matter his QBR, as I've said...it's doesn't tell the whole story. I think you guys got a steal with Dalton in the second, especially if he continues to improve as he has thus far.

BroncoJoe
11-10-2011, 03:58 PM
At the end of the day, it all comes down to wins and losses. Stats don't matter, mechanics don't matter. Ugly doesn't matter either.

This is why - since I have zero control, and learned to not fret too much about that kind of stuff - I want to see what happens over the course of the rest of the season.

vandammage13
11-10-2011, 04:53 PM
It makes a lot of sense actually.

I don't think that people or players really dislike Tebow. But, the kid has only started 6 NFL games...and he gets more attention then Tom Brady. His jersey was the #1 seller for months.

I thought the fact that only 22 players voted for him, when Romo received 21 votes was pretty good.

There is a lot of jealousy surrounding Tebow (point blank). He's also got to play for at least a full season (or 11 games at least), before anyone can even begin to rate him, in my opinion.

Overrated implies that he's rated too high...Pretty much everyone outside of Colorado and perhaps Florida thinks Tebow sucks.

Overexposed, I would agree he's #1.

Surprised that the players that were surveyed weren't smart enough to see the difference.

Skacorica
11-10-2011, 05:27 PM
And that's the fallibility of the quarterback ranking system.

Talking about Ben Roethlisberger, Randy Fichtner the Pittsburgh's Quarterback Coach, I would love to see him hired as Denver's next Offensive Coordinator!

:D

+1 :beer:

vandammage13
11-11-2011, 08:57 AM
Was just listening to Vic and Gary and Champ was on...

Champ seemed a little flabergasted that TT was voted as most overrated as well. He wondered how TT could be overrated when he's not even rated highly by most.

Bailey chalked it up to "haters" (his words, not mine) and jealousy over TT's popularity more than his play on the field.

MileHiWildcat
11-11-2011, 09:26 AM
Was just listening to Vic and Gary and Champ was on...

Champ seemed a little flabergasted that TT was voted as most overrated as well. He wondered how TT could be overrated when he's not even rated highly by most.

Bailey chalked it up to "haters" (his words, not mine) and jealousy over TT's popularity more than his play on the field.

Vic and Gary - biggest douches in the Denver sports radio landscape. They HATE Tebow.

slim
11-11-2011, 09:27 AM
Vic and Gary - biggest douches in the Denver sports radio landscape. They HATE Tebow.

:laugh:

You must be thinking about someone else.

Skacorica
11-11-2011, 10:08 AM
Vic and Gary - biggest douches in the Denver sports radio landscape. They HATE Tebow.

Really? I find them significantly more fair than say, Alfred.

slim
11-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Really? I find them significantly more fair than say, Alfred.

They may be the only local talk show types that have taken a wait and see approach with the kid. The rest seem pretty eager to throw him under the bus every chance they get.

vhatever
11-11-2011, 11:29 AM
The fact that michael "dream team" vick, 3-5 in the year with his ridiculous 100mil contract isn't even on the list highly suggests that many NFL players are just racist dbags, or, alternatively, too stupid to know the difference between "overhyped" and "overrated". Probably a bit of both.

Ravage!!!
11-11-2011, 11:52 AM
BTB would be proud of you. He, too, thinks everything is about race

Poet
11-11-2011, 11:54 AM
NFL players are stupid.

They said the same thing about Shaun Alexander after he had 3 straight 1300 yard seasons AND when he broke the TD record.

I'm not sure most of them actually knew what overrated actually means.

I Eat Staples
11-11-2011, 09:38 PM
I still don't get why Tebow is treated differently than any other young QB.

Because he was the most overhyped bad prospect ever.

But I disagree with overrated. As some others said, he's overhyped, overcovered, and over talked about, but not overrated considering most people think he sucks.

I Eat Staples
11-11-2011, 09:40 PM
Vic and Gary - biggest douches in the Denver sports radio landscape. They HATE Tebow.

Yeah, everyone who thinks a player isn't good must hate said player. Using that logic I hate an awful lot of NFL players, especially Broncos over the past couple years.

Seriously, pull Tebow's dick out of your mouth.

Broncos Mtnman
11-11-2011, 09:47 PM
Not really surprising, he's pretty much been overly hyped by his own fanatical fan base and statistically he's one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. Add in that he get's media coverage like he's elite or showing signs of promise when he's not...the term overrated makes perfect sense. And I'm not saying that out of slight, but when you think about it logically, it makes sense that his peers view him in that light.

:dito:

nevcraw
11-12-2011, 03:34 AM
thanks for the fuel god bless!

Superchop 7
12-06-2011, 09:01 PM
http://youtu.be/gouuZ5GUS8M

Superchop 7
12-06-2011, 09:08 PM
http://youtu.be/aXCRyggRs-E

NameUsedBefore
12-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Tim Tebow - 22
Tony Romo - 21
Tom Brady - 3
Eli Manning - 2
Cam Newton - 0
Michael Vick - 0

Black voter effect.

True story.

FlyByU
12-07-2011, 10:43 AM
http://youtu.be/aXCRyggRs-E

OMG that is pretty funny Thanks for sharing... :beer:

Superchop 7
12-07-2011, 08:16 PM
Bump...............

Skacorica
12-08-2011, 12:42 AM
Tim Tebow - 22
Tony Romo - 21
Tom Brady - 3
Eli Manning - 2
Cam Newton - 0
Michael Vick - 0

Black voter effect.

True story.

Anyone who thinks race had nothing to do with that is in denial...