Broncos retaining some assistant coaches

[broncofaninfla]

From the Denver Post:

The Broncos' new head coach will be encouraged to keep six assistant coaches left over from Shanahan's staff. According to two NFL sources, the Broncos have sent termination notices to the league office for all assistants except Dennison, Jeremy Bates (quarterbacks), Jedd Fisch (receivers), Bobby Turner (running backs), Bill Johnson (defensive line) and Rich Tuten (strength and conditioning). The Broncos will honor the contracts of the other assistant coaches — which run through at least 2009 — but their future with the organization is at the discretion of the team's next head coach.


The defensive line coach??!? Really?

[Tebow4Ever]

Is keeping Tuten really a good choice considering all the Injuries we had? I know alot of people say it would not be his fault. But 7 running backs going on IR during ONE season, thats unheard of. Just my two cents.

[Zweems56]

Well thank god for turner!

[Traveler]

Not to hijack the thread, but if nothing else, the "termination" of Shanahan has made this offseason more interesting and visiting this message board even more fun.

As far as Tuten is concerned, if he stays, the team should at least have an outside source evaluate his training regimen (sp?) to determine if it has any connection to the number of hamstring and groin injuries.

Makes one wonder if the hip injury to Rod Smith was in anyway connected to his workouts under Tuten.

[GEM]

From the Denver Post:

The Broncos' new head coach will be encouraged to keep six assistant coaches left over from Shanahan's staff. According to two NFL sources, the Broncos have sent termination notices to the league office for all assistants except Dennison, Jeremy Bates (quarterbacks), Jedd Fisch (receivers), Bobby Turner (running backs), Bill Johnson (defensive line) and Rich Tuten (strength and conditioning). The Broncos will honor the contracts of the other assistant coaches — which run through at least 2009 — but their future with the organization is at the discretion of the team's next head coach.


The defensive line coach??!? Really?

I'm happy that we're keeping all except Dline and Tuten. At some point, all the groin injuries, pulled muscles and the decimation of the RB's has to at least in part be looked at as a failure of conditioning. Extremely happy they are retaining Bobby Turner.

[G_Money]

What she said.

~G

[tomjonesrocks]

Keeping the D-line coach! Got to be kidding.

[Thnikkaman]

So this means Slowick is gone. :D:beer::rockon::whoo::cheers::woot::dance::2thumb s::clap2::heh::duck::amen::congrats:

[jrelway]

good thing for jeremy bates too. i think cutler would of shit a brick if pat let bates walk.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Article says new coach will be encouraged to keep these six - i.e. - will the new coach really have the option to keep/not keep, or will the new coach be told that he will keep these six?

[D1g1tal j1m]

Bill Johnson needs to be kicked to the curb by the newly named DC. I don't know if we will continue to keep the zone blocking style that Shan has had or if the new HC will institute a new style. We definitely need bigger Guards that go over 300 lbs and even maybe a bigger C to get those tough yards near the goal line and on short yardage (which has been a major problem these last few years). It will be interesting to see what happens during the draft and if we will get bigger up front on both sides of the ball.

[claymore]

Bill Johnson needs to be kicked to the curb by the newly named DC. I don't know if we will continue to keep the zone blocking style that Shan has had or if the new HC will institute a new style. We definitely need bigger Guards that go over 300 lbs and even maybe a bigger C to get those tough yards near the goal line and on short yardage (which has been a major problem these last few years). It will be interesting to see what happens during the draft and if we will get bigger up front on both sides of the ball.

I was thinking the same thing about our guards. It falls on deaf ears but I think our line is a little over rated right now.

[Traveler]

I was thinking the same thing about our guards. It falls on deaf ears but I think our line is a little over rated right now.

The question then becomes which of our current linemen fit the more smash-mouth blocking scheme? Clady, Harris, and Kuper?

[muse]

I think we're keeping the DL coach because he's likely going elsewhere anyway - and we won't have to pay him if he is hired by another team. I think. GB are interested IIRC.

[MOtorboat]

I think we're keeping the DL coach because he's likely going elsewhere anyway - and we won't have to pay him if he is hired by another team. I think. GB are interested IIRC.

I saw that yesterday too, GB, St. Louis and New Orleans, I think.

[claymore]

I think we're keeping the DL coach because he's likely going elsewhere anyway - and we won't have to pay him if he is hired by another team. I think. GB are interested IIRC.
Thats awesome. It still doesnt explain Tuten. I dont think a VA hospital would even hire him.

[underrated29]

Hopefully it materializes, i would like to see him go to the rams. Their D would never improve and then i would always draft FF players who see the rams 2x a year.

[GEM]

I was thinking the same thing about our guards. It falls on deaf ears but I think our line is a little over rated right now.

Beings they allowed the least amount of sacks in the league this year, I don't see how the line was overrated. :shrugs: OLine isn't one of our deficiencies.

[Thnikkaman]

I think our lack of Red Zone pushes was a direct result of our lack of healthy RBs. If anything, our O-Line is underrated.

[LRtagger]

Beings they allowed the least amount of sacks in the league this year, I don't see how the line was overrated. :shrugs: OLine isn't one of our deficiencies.

Not to mention we had some SCRUBS running the ball this year and no consistant back but still managed to be towards the top of the league in rushing yards.

[LRtagger]

I think our lack of Red Zone pushes was a direct result of our lack of healthy RBs. If anything, our O-Line is underrated.

We managed to score TDs with Pittman and Hillis...its not the offensive line's fault Hall and Young cant get it in the endzone.

[bcbronc]

Beings they allowed the least amount of sacks in the league this year, I don't see how the line was overrated. :shrugs: OLine isn't one of our deficiencies.

pass blocking they are great, but run blocking, especially short yardage and red zone, needs some improvement. replacing Hamilton with a 320lb + monster would be a good place to start.

[bcbronc]

I think our lack of Red Zone pushes was a direct result of our lack of healthy RBs. If anything, our O-Line is underrated.

but this isn't the first year we've had red zone problems.

[Lonestar]

Lets not all get woodies here..

It says the new guy will be encouraged to keep those folks..

Does not say he has to.. If they do stay most likely it will be a test relationship to see if he is comfortable keeping mikeys boys around.. As a new guy, in a new city I'd want to be surrounded with folks I know I can TRUST.. That have me as their only loyalty factor..

As for me unless I know of someone that is better than Turner I would replace all but him and Bates only because of the relationship that he has with Jay..

Lets hope that keeping those folks is not a deal breaker with a top notch candidate..

[claymore]

The question then becomes which of our current linemen fit the more smash-mouth blocking scheme? Clady, Harris, and Kuper?

Honestly? I think we need to build around Clady. Worry about the left side and center first. He is the only one I am real high on. I would work on LG or Center depending on Wiegmann's retirement.

I dont know what effect moving Hamilton to Kuper's spot would have. But in my mind it should be an easier position than LG.

[LRtagger]

but this isn't the first year we've had red zone problems.

This isnt the first year we havent had a stud RB, either. The problem can be attributed to Mike's late round RBs just as much as it can be to the OL.

Hillis had 5 TDs in what, 4 games? Pittman had 4 in what, 4 games?

We put a stud in the backfield for 200 carries, I guarantee you he has 10+ TDs with the same OL.

Even with our backfield this year, we were still 14th in the league in rushing TDs.

[Lonestar]

This isnt the first year we havent had a stud RB, either. The problem can be attributed to Mike's late round RBs just as much as it can be to the OL.

Hillis had 5 TDs in what, 4 games? Pittman had 4 in what, 4 games?

We put a stud in the backfield for 200 carries, I guarantee you he has 10+ TDs with the same OL.

Even with our backfield this year, we were still 14th in the league in rushing TDs.


Perhaps but then again numbers can be deceiving..

We used to lead the NFL (top five) in Rushing TD's years ago..

If you look at red zone TD 's in particular inside the 5 I suspect you will not find quite as many.. I remember Hillis getting 2-3 of his from outside the 10.. getting great blocks and being almost untouched into the EZ..

Do not remember where Pitts were from..

I have always be an advocate of getting bigger on the OLINE.. not Dallas big but minimum 305 center on the rest of the OLINE, guards at about 310-315 and tackles 320+.. can not hurt anything but having to draft in the 2-4 rounds instead of 5-7..

[broncofaninfla]

This isnt the first year we havent had a stud RB, either. The problem can be attributed to Mike's late round RBs just as much as it can be to the OL.

Hillis had 5 TDs in what, 4 games? Pittman had 4 in what, 4 games?

We put a stud in the backfield for 200 carries, I guarantee you he has 10+ TDs with the same OL.

Even with our backfield this year, we were still 14th in the league in rushing TDs.

Pittman and Hillis were both power runners. That style seems to compliment our zone blocking scheme and is a perfect set up for a good change of pace type back. Torain, Aldridge or a stud yet to be signed or drafted.

[LRtagger]

Perhaps but then again numbers can be deceiving..

We used to lead the NFL (top five) in Rushing TD's years ago..

If you look at red zone TD 's in particular inside the 5 I suspect you will not find quite as many.. I remember Hillis getting 2-3 of his from outside the 10.. getting great blocks and being almost untouched into the EZ..

Do not remember where Pitts were from..

I have always be an advocate of getting bigger on the OLINE.. not Dallas big but minimum 305 center on the rest of the OLINE, guards at about 310-315 and tackles 320+.. can not hurt anything but having to draft in the 2-4 rounds instead of 5-7..


From what I remember, ALL off Pittman's were from inside the 5, but I could be wrong.

The last time we were great running in the redzone was with Portis IIRC....he consistantly had 15 TDs a season.

In 05 we were good with Anderson/Tater (20 TDs combined)...imagine what we could do with Hillis/stud rookie.

If we draft a top 5 RB in this draft, I will wager a year long sig bet that we score 20+ rushing TDs next season...the problem isnt the line IMO, it is the lack of talent in the backfield...and always has been.

[Zweems56]

Lets not all get woodies here..

It says the new guy will be encouraged to keep those folks..

Does not say he has to.. If they do stay most likely it will be a test relationship to see if he is comfortable keeping mikeys boys around.. As a new guy, in a new city I'd want to be surrounded with folks I know I can TRUST.. That have me as their only loyalty factor..

As for me unless I know of someone that is better than Turner I would replace all but him and Bates only because of the relationship that he has with Jay..

Lets hope that keeping those folks is not a deal breaker with a top notch candidate..

My boner is going to remain intact, tvym

[Thnikkaman]

but this isn't the first year we've had red zone problems.

Nor was it the first year that we had Young and Bell running the ball. :coffee:

[GEM]

From what I remember, ALL off Pittman's were from inside the 5, but I could be wrong.

The last time we were great running in the redzone was with Portis IIRC....he consistantly had 15 TDs a season.

In 05 we were good with Anderson/Tater (20 TDs combined)...imagine what we could do with Hillis/stud rookie.

If we draft a top 5 RB in this draft, I will wager a year long sig bet that we score 20+ rushing TDs next season...the problem isnt the line IMO, it is the lack of talent in the backfield...and always has been.

Unfortunately we need more help on D than we do at RB. If we go RB instead of D in the first I'm going to shoot myself on draft day. We can handle a less than top 5 rb for another year. I know I personally cannot handle another friggen season of having absolutely no leadership or talent in our front 7.

[Fan in Exile]

I think that a lot of people should be happier about our O-line than they are. Check here (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) and you'll see that our power success is pretty good. Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.

We actually rank 11th which is great when you put it with all of the other great stats that we have like pass protection and our stuffed rank which are both number one. I wouldn't change anything on this line that we don't have to which I think is only if Casey retires.

I saw some people advocating getting bigger which I think is just plain ignorant. The Broncos have understood for years that Bigger isn't better, better is better. If the guy is big then that's fine. If he isn't as long as he can play that's what counts.

Look at Dallas for example they are ranked 13 compared to our number 1 overall ranking and 15th in power success compared to our 11. Why anyone would want to be like them is beyond me.

[LRtagger]

Unfortunately we need more help on D than we do at RB. If we go RB instead of D in the first I'm going to shoot myself on draft day. We can handle a less than top 5 rb for another year. I know I personally cannot handle another friggen season of having absolutely no leadership or talent in our front 7.

We can get a top RB in the 3rd.

Not only that, but even if we draft DL with all 9 of our picks, the chances that any of them are going to be better as rookies than what we have currently on the roster is slim to none....hell, two of the scrubs on the D-line were top picks from the draft 2 years ago.

This draft is full of RB talent that will be available in the 3rd...we would be foolish not to draft one of them.

[LoyalSoldier]

but this isn't the first year we've had red zone problems.

Our redzone problems largely stemmed from turnovers. When Hillis was running the ball we had very little problems in the redzone.

[Medford Bronco]

We can get a top RB in the 3rd.

Not only that, but even if we draft DL with all 9 of our picks, the chances that any of them are going to be better as rookies than what we have currently on the roster is slim to none....hell, two of the scrubs on the D-line were top picks from the draft 2 years ago.

This draft is full of RB talent that will be available in the 3rd...we would be foolish not to draft one of them.

I hope that we address the LB postion as well as we are very thin there
and if we go 3-4 maybe a smaller D End from college to convert to a OLB

[Thnikkaman]

Our redzone problems largely stemmed from turnovers. When Hillis was running the ball we had very little problems in the redzone.

I would even go as far to say our Playoff chances went down the tubes when Hillis got injured.

[broncofaninfla]

I would even go as far to say our Playoff chances went down the tubes when Hillis got injured.

I completly agree. We lost balance on our offense when he went down.

[Dean]

I hope that we address the LB postion as well as we are very thin there
and if we go 3-4 maybe a smaller D End from college to convert to a OLB

:DI hope that we address the safety position as well. We have names but no players to put on the field.

[Broncos Mtnman]

pass blocking they are great, but run blocking, especially short yardage and red zone, needs some improvement. replacing Hamilton with a 320lb + monster would be a good place to start.

With the exception of this past year, our running game is ALWAYS one of the best in the league.

Sorry, but there's nothing wrong with our run blocking.

[GEM]

We can get a top RB in the 3rd.

Not only that, but even if we draft DL with all 9 of our picks, the chances that any of them are going to be better as rookies than what we have currently on the roster is slim to none....hell, two of the scrubs on the D-line were top picks from the draft 2 years ago.

This draft is full of RB talent that will be available in the 3rd...we would be foolish not to draft one of them.

I don't mind the 3rd. I am just sick of ignoring the D. They are unwatchable. Hopefully with some new coaches the d gets the attention it absolutely needs. I can't stand turning the channel when the d goes on the field.

[LRtagger]

I don't mind the 3rd. I am just sick of ignoring the D. They are unwatchable. Hopefully with some new coaches the d gets the attention it absolutely needs. I can't stand turning the channel when the d goes on the field.

I think everyone agrees that the D needs the most attention this offseason.

Sorry, when I said top 5 back, I didnt mean first rounder. We can get a guy like Greene, Ringer, Murray, Jennings in the 3rd ...even maybe a guy like Davis, Foster, Johnson in the 4th.

I hope that the new HC doesnt think just because he is coaching the Broncos that we can get away with 7th round talent at the RB position. I'm so tired of the mediocre play from that position.

Plus, being able to control the clock with a good back will help keep the defense off the field and keep you from having to change the channel ;)

[elsid13]

Bill Johnson needs to be kicked to the curb by the newly named DC. I don't know if we will continue to keep the zone blocking style that Shan has had or if the new HC will institute a new style. We definitely need bigger Guards that go over 300 lbs and even maybe a bigger C to get those tough yards near the goal line and on short yardage (which has been a major problem these last few years). It will be interesting to see what happens during the draft and if we will get bigger up front on both sides of the ball.

Being fat doesn't make you good guard in the NFL. Having good techinque and hand/foot placement make you a good guard in the NFL. Right now I extremely excited with Kuper play and Hamiliton is still a Top 10 LG in the league.

[elsid13]

but this isn't the first year we've had red zone problems.

Remember the key for ZB line is to have players that know how reach work and are in sync with their assignments. It takes time for them to get comfortable with each other, and know exactly what each other is going to do on any given zone read. Denver has experienced a lot of turnover in the line due to injuries and retirements, which breaks that required bond.

[DenBronx]

I don't mind the 3rd. I am just sick of ignoring the D. They are unwatchable. Hopefully with some new coaches the d gets the attention it absolutely needs. I can't stand turning the channel when the d goes on the field.


if we wanted a stud rb then last year was the year to find value all the way till the 3rd for one.

this is the year to find value in linebackers.

[Medford Bronco]

I don't mind the 3rd. I am just sick of ignoring the D. They are unwatchable. Hopefully with some new coaches the d gets the attention it absolutely needs. I can't stand turning the channel when the d goes on the field.

I think our Defense being so pathetic this year has made
me appreciate good Defense so much more.

I never liked the Ravens but now I do. They are the anti Broncos
yes Ray Lewis is not a good character but he sure can play
along with Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs and the rest of that unit.

I hope they destroy Tenn this week and show us you can win
in this league with a rookie QB and a great defense, something
we have not had since the late 1970s.

Our defense was decent when we won in 97-98 but it was
largely an offensive driven club.

Some good special teams could help as well as we have not
had that in a long time either. Seeing Sproles change field
position is good for his team. We also lost to Buffalo due
to being afraid of their kick return unit.

sorry to be :offtopic: here but I thought it added to why
we need better D.

[Medford Bronco]

if we wanted a stud rb then last year was the year to find value all the way till the 3rd for one.

this is the year to find value in linebackers.

which we clearly do not have, especially in the Charger
game they were putrid and overran everything.

I hope the new coach/dc teaches dicipline in defense
and I would think McDaniels would get some of that
seeing how NE operated year after year and we all know
Spagnuolos track record.

[bcbronc]

I think that a lot of people should be happier about our O-line than they are. Check here (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) and you'll see that our power success is pretty good. Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.

We actually rank 11th which is great when you put it with all of the other great stats that we have like pass protection and our stuffed rank which are both number one. I wouldn't change anything on this line that we don't have to which I think is only if Casey retires.

I saw some people advocating getting bigger which I think is just plain ignorant. The Broncos have understood for years that Bigger isn't better, better is better. If the guy is big then that's fine. If he isn't as long as he can play that's what counts.

Look at Dallas for example they are ranked 13 compared to our number 1 overall ranking and 15th in power success compared to our 11. Why anyone would want to be like them is beyond me.

thanks. I tried to find that site before I posted to confirm my suspision, but couldn't remember what it was called. egg on my face. Looks like the interior of the line is better at moving the pile than I thought. going by those stats our power game isn't lacking at all.

I've sent off an email to Pat telling him to ignore my advice to dump Hamilton. Hopefully it's not to late.

[GEM]

I think our Defense being so pathetic this year has made
me appreciate good Defense so much more.

I never liked the Ravens but now I do. They are the anti Broncos
yes Ray Lewis is not a good character but he sure can play
along with Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs and the rest of that unit.

I hope they destroy Tenn this week and show us you can win
in this league with a rookie QB and a great defense, something
we have not had since the late 1970s.

Our defense was decent when we won in 97-98 but it was
largely an offensive driven club.

Some good special teams could help as well as we have not
had that in a long time either. Seeing Sproles change field
position is good for his team. We also lost to Buffalo due
to being afraid of their kick return unit.

sorry to be :offtopic: here but I thought it added to why
we need better D.

You know what really sucks......watching the Ariz game and seeing Berry sack Ryan. Pryce in Balt. UGH it pisses me off to think about. :tsk:

[Lonestar]

I think that a lot of people should be happier about our O-line than they are. Check here (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol) and you'll see that our power success is pretty good. Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.

We actually rank 11th which is great when you put it with all of the other great stats that we have like pass protection and our stuffed rank which are both number one. I wouldn't change anything on this line that we don't have to which I think is only if Casey retires.

I saw some people advocating getting bigger which I think is just plain ignorant. The Broncos have understood for years that Bigger isn't better, better is better. If the guy is big then that's fine. If he isn't as long as he can play that's what counts.

Look at Dallas for example they are ranked 13 compared to our number 1 overall ranking and 15th in power success compared to our 11. Why anyone would want to be like them is beyond me.

There is a huge difference in being big and fat and just being big and skilled..

Every sees the difference in having a Clady at his size and skill level (which should only get better down the road) of a lighter Lepsis type..

Having an extra 10-15 pounds across the board and skill levels to match will not hurt this team in the red zone and with the 3rd and 4 or less. regardless of how we ranked.. we can ALWAYS get better..


BTW folks mikey is no longer here and most likely his penchant for smaller smart types of late round draft choices as well as bottom of the barrel RB's.. Time to move on..

[LRtagger]

if we wanted a stud rb then last year was the year to find value all the way till the 3rd for one.

this is the year to find value in linebackers.

:confused:

Your username says "Get Shonn Greene" under it

he will be a stud in the third will he not??

[Fan in Exile]

There is a huge difference in being big and fat and just being big and skilled..

Every sees the difference in having a Clady at his size and skill level (which should only get better down the road) of a lighter Lepsis type..

Having an extra 10-15 pounds across the board and skill levels to match will not hurt this team in the red zone and with the 3rd and 4 or less. regardless of how we ranked.. we can ALWAYS get better..


BTW folks mikey is no longer here and most likely his penchant for smaller smart types of late round draft choices as well as bottom of the barrel RB's.. Time to move on..

Mike said many times that he didn't look for smaller O-linemen he looked for good ones who fit the system. I'll wait and see what the new HC says about the O-line before I move on.

Everyone sees the difference in having a guy as skilled as Clady who is also healthy. Let's not forget that Lepsis when he was healthy produced a lot for this team.

Having 10-15 extra pounds can hurt the team because the skills don't often go with the extra weight, it can make a huge difference. So let's be happy with the great o-line that we have and not get all worked up by a fat o-line that doesn't do as good a job as ours.

[Lonestar]

There is a huge difference in being big and fat and just being big and skilled..
Every sees the difference in having a Clady at his size and skill level (which should only get better down the road) of a lighter Lepsis type..

Having an extra 10-15 pounds across the board and skill levels to match will not hurt this team in the red zone and with the 3rd and 4 or less. regardless of how we ranked.. we can ALWAYS get better..


BTW folks mikey is no longer here and most likely his penchant for smaller smart types of late round draft choices as well as bottom of the barrel RB's.. Time to move on..


Mike said many times that he didn't look for smaller O-linemen he looked for good ones who fit the system. I'll wait and see what the new HC says about the O-line before I move on.

Everyone sees the difference in having a guy as skilled as Clady who is also healthy. Let's not forget that Lepsis when he was healthy produced a lot for this team.

Having 10-15 extra pounds can hurt the team because the skills don't often go with the extra weight, it can make a huge difference. So let's be happy with the great o-line that we have and not get all worked up by a fat o-line that doesn't do as good a job as ours.

let me repeat what I said NOT what you wanted to see.

Please note it as I hi-lighted it and made it bigger for you to read.. Maybe this time you will indeed get the drift..

[Tned]

It's important to remember that none of those coaches are definately staying, but instead haven't been terminated yet. The new HC will be encouraged to keep them, but I imagine depending on who is hired, some of them may still be let go.

That is something Cutler might have to deal with.

[Tned]

Not to hijack the thread, but if nothing else, the "termination" of Shanahan has made this offseason more interesting and visiting this message board even more fun.

Yea, the last few off seasons, which ended in disappointments were kind of slow going on the message boards. I know I disappeared for a few months (until draft time) a couple times.

While I'm still not 100% sure this was the right move, it definitely makes a losing off season more interesting.


As far as Tuten is concerned, if he stays, the team should at least have an outside source evaluate his training regimen (sp?) to determine if it has any connection to the number of hamstring and groin injuries.

Makes one wonder if the hip injury to Rod Smith was in anyway connected to his workouts under Tuten.

Hard to say with Tuten. Once upon a time, Tuten and his torture sled, were the talk of the NFL and praised for the condition he got the Broncos in.

[Fan in Exile]

There is a huge difference in being big and fat and just being big and skilled..

Every sees the difference in having a Clady at his size and skill level (which should only get better down the road) of a lighter Lepsis type..

Having an extra 10-15 pounds across the board and skill levels to match will not hurt this team in the red zone and with the 3rd and 4 or less. regardless of how we ranked.. we can ALWAYS get better..


BTW folks mikey is no longer here and most likely his penchant for smaller smart types of late round draft choices as well as bottom of the barrel RB's.. Time to move on..


let me repeat what I said NOT what you wanted to see.

Please note it as I hi-lighted it and made it bigger for you to read.. Maybe this time you will indeed get the drift..

Come on JR you can be more civil than that. 10-15 pounds makes a difference in how people play and what we can do. It's unrealistic to ask for guys to weigh more than the ones we've got now and play better.

It's not time to move on from the o-line that we've got and works it's time for people to move on from the unrealistic notion that you can get giants out there who play like the guys we've got.

[Lonestar]

Come on JR you can be more civil than that. 10-15 pounds makes a difference in how people play and what we can do. It's unrealistic to ask for guys to weigh more than the ones we've got now and play better.

It's not time to move on from the o-line that we've got and works it's time for people to move on from the unrealistic notion that you can get giants out there who play like the guys we've got.


Once again you did not read what I said but what you wanted to read..



Having an extra 10-15 pounds across the board and skill levels to match will not hurt this team in the red zone and with the 3rd and 4 or less.


Now where did I say our guys needed to put on the weight.. I said having and extra 10-15 pounds across the board..

DO I think each of them could put on 5-10 pounds of muscle and not hurt any of them absolutely..

Frankly if any of the Offensive guys comes over as HC the ZBS is most likely gone anyway..

[Tned]

Frankly if any of the Offensive guys comes over as HC the ZBS is most likely gone anyway..

Possibly. I think there is a very real chance that it could go. However, the flipside is that in the last few years, a number of teams have implemented some variation of the ZBS after not only Denver's success, but after Gibbs went to Atlanta and made them a top rushing team.

I can't remember how many teams switched to the ZBS or a variation in the last two years, but it was several.

[Fan in Exile]

Once again you did not read what I said but what you wanted to read..



Now where did I say our guys needed to put on the weight.. I said having and extra 10-15 pounds across the board..

DO I think each of them could put on 5-10 pounds of muscle and not hurt any of them absolutely..

Frankly if any of the Offensive guys comes over as HC the ZBS is most likely gone anyway..

I totally read what you wrote, and I think you live in a fairy tale land of gumdrops and marsh mellows if you think that guys can just ass weight without there being a trade off in performance.

For crying out loud why can't people just be happy that we have one of the best O-lines out there without trying to hammer them into an unrealistic ideal that would only make things worse.

[Lonestar]

I totally read what you wrote, and I think you live in a fairy tale land of gumdrops and marsh mellows if you think that guys can just ass weight without there being a trade off in performance.

For crying out loud why can't people just be happy that we have one of the best O-lines out there without trying to hammer them into an unrealistic ideal that would only make things worse.

Yes we have had one of the best BUT that may ALL go away depending on who we get in here to be the HC and what scheme he likes..

mikey wanted his OLINE lean and ZBS but the performance for the most part when we Absolutely had to have 3rd and 2 tough yards was not there.. How many times did we pass because mikey had zero confidence in getting that 3rd down?

I used to be a OG and putting on or taking off weight at that stage does not affect the "performance" all that much.. But having the upper and lower body strength does..

5-15 pounds of solid muscle in the upper body is great for fending off DL and knocking LB' on their ass.. and the degradation of 10 or 40 times are negligible..

I can almost guarantee that the OLINE as we know it today is toast and we will upgrade center and OLG with beefier meaner guys..

Again I'm not talking 350 pound guys but more in the range of 305-320 for OG and centers and 335-340 for OT.. and not fatties like you see in DALLAS..

[DenBronx]

Yes we have had one of the best BUT that may ALL go away depending on who we get in here to be the HC and what scheme he likes..

mikey wanted his OLINE lean and ZBS but the performance for the most part when we Absolutely had to have 3rd and 2 tough yards was not there.. How many times did we pass because mikey had zero confidence in getting that 3rd down?

I used to be a OG and putting on or taking off weight at that stage does not affect the "performance" all that much.. But having the upper and lower body strength does..

5-15 pounds of solid muscle in the upper body is great for fending off DL and knocking LB' on their ass.. and the degradation of 10 or 40 times are negligible..

I can almost guarantee that the OLINE as we know it today is toast and we will upgrade center and OLG with beefier meaner guys..

Again I'm not talking 350 pound guys but more in the range of 305-320 for OG and centers and 335-340 for OT.. and not fatties like you see in DALLAS..

clady, kuper and harris we know wont be going anywhere. i think they are very good at their positions. hamilton is good but for how long? licht is still unproven and we havnt seen enough of him at center. maybe licht can play LG and we draft a center in round 4 for the future. as of right now it looks like weigman will play one more year but i think it would be smart to draft a solid center so he could learn from one of the best.

the small oline guys i think are a thing of the past. with the way defenses are developing i think we need to not look at anyone under 305. if your too small then you get pushed around like a rag doll and your quarter back then becomes a sitting duck. if your a fatty that weight 350 pounds then you might tend to be a little slower and you will give your running back nightmares because you didnt get out of the way in time.

[Lonestar]

clady, kuper and harris we know wont be going anywhere. i think they are very good at their positions. hamilton is good but for how long? licht is still unproven and we havnt seen enough of him at center. maybe licht can play LG and we draft a center in round 4 for the future. as of right now it looks like weigman will play one more year but i think it would be smart to draft a solid center so he could learn from one of the best.

the small oline guys i think are a thing of the past. with the way defenses are developing i think we need to not look at anyone under 305. if your too small then you get pushed around like a rag doll and your quarter back then becomes a sitting duck. if your a fatty that weight 350 pounds then you might tend to be a little slower and you will give your running back nightmares because you didnt get out of the way in time.

Thanks for clarifying what I have been promoting for YEARS..

[Fan in Exile]

Yes we have had one of the best BUT that may ALL go away depending on who we get in here to be the HC and what scheme he likes..

mikey wanted his OLINE lean and ZBS but the performance for the most part when we Absolutely had to have 3rd and 2 tough yards was not there.. How many times did we pass because mikey had zero confidence in getting that 3rd down?

I used to be a OG and putting on or taking off weight at that stage does not affect the "performance" all that much.. But having the upper and lower body strength does..

5-15 pounds of solid muscle in the upper body is great for fending off DL and knocking LB' on their ass.. and the degradation of 10 or 40 times are negligible..

I can almost guarantee that the OLINE as we know it today is toast and we will upgrade center and OLG with beefier meaner guys..

Again I'm not talking 350 pound guys but more in the range of 305-320 for OG and centers and 335-340 for OT.. and not fatties like you see in DALLAS..

We had a 70% success rate in the power situations last year we weren't lacking in power on the o-line. Saying this is just plain ignorance. Our problem wasn't with the o-line perhaps you noticed that the RBs kept getting injured. When Pittman and Hillis were in there we ran it plenty of times.

I would expect someone who played OG to understand this better. They already outweigh DE's, and LB, and they double team DT's so that's not the issue.

Why would you even bring up 40 yard dash times, they don't have anything to do with the O-line? :confused:

What the weight does hurt them with is their stamina having to be out there the whole game. It also hurts them when they pull or have to block in space.

Your guarantee that we will scrap the ZBS is particularly hollow for a couple of reasons.

1) Your don't have anymore information than the rest of us.

2) They are mostly looking at Defensive guys and want to keep Dennison

3) Josh McDaniels who is supposed to be the front runner for the position helped to install a ZBS in New England

4) League wide there is a movement to start ZBS not to stop it

5) We were fantastic last year most people smart enough to become a head coach know that you don't fix what ain't broke.

I get that you're not saying we should bring in 350 pound guys to play on the o-line. However, the entire argument that we should bring in bigger guys is still ludicrous. We have a great O-line and if Weigmann retires we should want to bring in the best guy to replace him and that has very little to do with whether they are 285 like he is or 305.

[Lonestar]

We had a 70% success rate in the power situations last year we weren't lacking in power on the o-line. Saying this is just plain ignorance. Our problem wasn't with the o-line perhaps you noticed that the RBs kept getting injured. When Pittman and Hillis were in there we ran it plenty of times.

your correct with Hillis and pitman we did fine but not so much with the others.. how many times on 3rd and under 3 did we pass the ball this post year? that is a HUGE indicator that mikey had little if any confidence in making it on the ground....


I would expect someone who played OG to understand this better. They already outweigh DE's, and LB, and they double team DT's so that's not the issue.

I'm not sure of how many time I ever got to block the DE when I played but have to tel you is was small compared to the number of times I was trying to keep the DT out of the back field..

Why would you even bring up 40 yard dash times, they don't have anything to do with the O-line? :confused:

I said 10-40 yard times

What the weight does hurt them with is their stamina having to be out there the whole game. It also hurts them when they pull or have to block in space.

I guess you also do not get that stamina is based on having the muscle to handle sustained play.. if you are to small to play the position and are being beat up all the time by some larger than you and stronger that does you no favors also..

Your guarantee that we will scrap the ZBS is particularly hollow for a couple of reasons.

1) Your don't have anymore information than the rest of us.

2) They are mostly looking at Defensive guys and want to keep Dennison

3) Josh McDaniels who is supposed to be the front runner for the position helped to install a ZBS in New England

4) League wide there is a movement to start ZBS not to stop it

5) We were fantastic last year most people smart enough to become a head coach know that you don't fix what ain't broke.

I get that you're not saying we should bring in 350 pound guys to play on the o-line. However, the entire argument that we should bring in bigger guys is still ludicrous. We have a great O-line and if Weigmann retires we should want to bring in the best guy to replace him and that has very little to do with whether they are 285 like he is or 305.

I do not think I guaranteed anywhere that the ZBS was a thing of the past.. just thought is was unlikely to be around in a year or two depending on who we bring in..

As far as Weigmann is concerned IF he retires then of course we should get the best we can but I'll wager you that he is closer to 305 than 285..

I'd also guess that while they will be encouraged to keep some of "mikeys boys" if I were them I'd pretty much clean house except for maybe turner and Bates. and bates only because he has a good reporiore with Jay..

Now take a deep breath and let it go..

[Fan in Exile]

I do not think I guaranteed anywhere that the ZBS was a thing of the past.. just thought is was unlikely to be around in a year or two depending on who we bring in..

As far as Weigmann is concerned IF he retires then of course we should get the best we can but I'll wager you that he is closer to 305 than 285..

I'd also guess that while they will be encouraged to keep some of "mikeys boys" if I were them I'd pretty much clean house except for maybe turner and Bates. and bates only because he has a good reporiore with Jay..

Now take a deep breath and let it go..

In post 60 you all but guaranteed it. You also started a whole thread about a new sheriff. Face it JR you're obsessed with something that doesn't really matter.

I wouldn't mind bringing in Mack or Caldwell depending on how we can move in the draft and when we address the center. One is big one isn't it's not their size but their play we should be concerned about.

When it comes to letting it go, why don't you take your own advice.

[Lonestar]

Yes we have had one of the best BUT that may ALL go away depending on who we get in here to be the HC and what scheme he likes..

mikey wanted his OLINE lean and ZBS but the performance for the most part when we Absolutely had to have 3rd and 2 tough yards was not there.. How many times did we pass because mikey had zero confidence in getting that 3rd down?

I used to be a OG and putting on or taking off weight at that stage does not affect the "performance" all that much.. But having the upper and lower body strength does..

5-15 pounds of solid muscle in the upper body is great for fending off DL and knocking LB' on their ass.. and the degradation of 10 or 40 times are negligible..

I can almost guarantee that the OLINE as we know it today is toast and we will upgrade center and OLG with beefier meaner guys..
Again I'm not talking 350 pound guys but more in the range of 305-320 for OG and centers and 335-340 for OT.. and not fatties like you see in DALLAS..


In post 60 you all but guaranteed it. You also started a whole thread about a new sheriff. Face it JR you're obsessed with something that doesn't really matter.

I wouldn't mind bringing in Mack or Caldwell depending on how we can move in the draft and when we address the center. One is big one isn't it's not their size but their play we should be concerned about.

When it comes to letting it go, why don't you take your own advice.

lets just agree to disagree and see what the new Sheriff brings to town..OK?

Until then it is all wishes and speculation..

[Fan in Exile]

lets just agree to disagree and see what the new Sheriff brings to town..OK?

Until then it is all wishes and speculation..

Okay but I'm better looking. :D

[Lonestar]

Okay but I'm better looking. :D


well thats not hard..

[dogfish]

well, looks like the architect of all our shitty D-lines won't be among the assistant coaches we retain. . . . :elefant:


SAINTS HIRING DEFENSIVE LINE COACH BEFORE COORDINATOR
Posted by Mike Florio on January 10, 2009, 10:06 p.m.

The New Orleans Saints don’t have a defensive coordinator.

But they reportedly do have a defensive line coach.

Per the New Orleans Times-Picayune, the Saints will hire Bill Johnson, former defensive line coach of the Denver Broncos.

Unless the Saints already have a deal in place with a coordinator or have cleared the Johnson hire with all candidates, it’s an unusual approach, to say the least.

_____________________________________


:whoo: :woot: :whoo:

[Den21vsBal19]

well, looks like the architect of all our shitty D-lines won't be among the assistant coaches we retain. . . . :elefant:


SAINTS HIRING DEFENSIVE LINE COACH BEFORE COORDINATOR
Posted by Mike Florio on January 10, 2009, 10:06 p.m.

The New Orleans Saints don’t have a defensive coordinator.

But they reportedly do have a defensive line coach.

Per the New Orleans Times-Picayune, the Saints will hire Bill Johnson, former defensive line coach of the Denver Broncos.

Unless the Saints already have a deal in place with a coordinator or have cleared the Johnson hire with all candidates, it’s an unusual approach, to say the least.

_____________________________________


:whoo: :woot: :whoo:
Hallelujah!!!!!!!

[omac]

well, looks like the architect of all our shitty D-lines won't be among the assistant coaches we retain. . . . :elefant:


SAINTS HIRING DEFENSIVE LINE COACH BEFORE COORDINATOR
Posted by Mike Florio on January 10, 2009, 10:06 p.m.

The New Orleans Saints don’t have a defensive coordinator.

But they reportedly do have a defensive line coach.

Per the New Orleans Times-Picayune, the Saints will hire Bill Johnson, former defensive line coach of the Denver Broncos.

Unless the Saints already have a deal in place with a coordinator or have cleared the Johnson hire with all candidates, it’s an unusual approach, to say the least.

_____________________________________


:whoo: :woot: :whoo:

I guess the question is, why are the Saints so impressed with our D-line coach that they'd hire him before the DC? Did they see something?

[Lonestar]

I guess the question is, why are the Saints so impressed with our D-line coach that they'd hire him before the DC? Did they see something?


just maybe it was not Johnson but Boob affected him that much with the scheme...

I can't believe that but it is that or he gives a great interview..


Did mikey take a job down there and no one heard about it? :laugh:

[muse]

just maybe it was not Johnson but Boob affected him that much with the scheme...

I can't believe that but it is that or he gives a great interview..


Did mikey take a job down there and no one heard about it? :laugh:

The scheme did absolutely no favours for our DL this year in many respects. Johnson has a great track record and under Bates our DEs weren't bad - Crowder started strong (faded down the stretch but it's to be expected from a rookie DL) and Doom had 12.5 sacks. Hell, even Josh Mallard got 4.5. He's coached guys like Patch Kerney and Rod Coleman in their prime. Slowik simply didn't draw up his scheme to fit the players.

[Lonestar]

The scheme did absolutely no favours for our DL this year in many respects. Johnson has a great track record and under Bates our DEs weren't bad - Crowder started strong (faded down the stretch but it's to be expected from a rookie DL) and Doom had 12.5 sacks. Hell, even Josh Mallard got 4.5. He's coached guys like Patch Kerney and Rod Coleman in their prime. Slowik simply didn't draw up his scheme to fit the players.



well good bad or indifferent all the D guys except perhaps terlick, are gone.. so that slate should be clean..

If it were me and being a new HC I think all coaching staff and maybe tuten would be gone.. Start completely fresh with folks I have worked with.. and trust..

[omac]

The scheme did absolutely no favours for our DL this year in many respects. Johnson has a great track record and under Bates our DEs weren't bad - Crowder started strong (faded down the stretch but it's to be expected from a rookie DL) and Doom had 12.5 sacks. Hell, even Josh Mallard got 4.5. He's coached guys like Patch Kerney and Rod Coleman in their prime. Slowik simply didn't draw up his scheme to fit the players.

Nice points! :salute: