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Denver Native (Carol)
11-07-2011, 09:01 PM
Head Coach John Fox met the media Monday on the heels of Sunday's 38-24 win against the Raiders.

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- A lot has been made of the Broncos' read-option run game the club executed to the tune of 299 yards on the ground against the Raiders on Sunday.

Tim Tebow explained how it worked after the game Sunday.

On Monday, Head Coach John Fox said he believes the system, which has "kind of been done, but maybe not to the exact level where we’re kind of at right now,” can continue to be effective.

rest - http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Notebook-Fox-Talks-Run-Royal-Record/d44f56af-8322-4e8a-8304-bcabd9159e43

Superchop 7
11-07-2011, 09:22 PM
I agree....the more I think about teams having to defend against it.....the more I like it.

I even see a "tackle elidgible" working in the red zone.

If your QB can run....and ours can.....it can be dangerous.

FlyByU
11-07-2011, 09:37 PM
I thought that 2nd half looked a lot like the Florida Gators Spread O but just a little different not a whole lot though.

Looks like they will be building the O around Tebow after all the way Fox was talking.

Dirk
11-08-2011, 07:02 AM
As long as the "W"s keep stacking up I say why not?

The Glue Factory
11-08-2011, 12:02 PM
As long as the "W"s keep stacking up I say why not?

That will be the question. After a few games for opponents to analyze will those W's keep coming? Ima gonna predict a close W @ KC and the Jets will likely have enough tape to expose this offense.

slim
11-08-2011, 12:09 PM
I don't think the intent is to make it the base offense long term. At least I hope it's not. But it can be effective short term while Tim works on the rest of his game.

jhildebrand
11-08-2011, 12:23 PM
I don't think the intent is to make it the base offense long term. At least I hope it's not. But it can be effective short term while Tim works on the rest of his game.

I hope not too. If this team were to make that the base then all they are doing is setting themselves back. It will work while it is 'new' and fresh. But eventually you have to be able to drop back, have a decent pocket, and pass the ball. Also, at some point TT will get his bell rung seriously hard and then what.

Lancane
11-08-2011, 12:52 PM
Fox can say whatever he likes, the chance that Elway is going to allow such a base offense? That's the real question...not to mention the minute the offense fails, we'll be right back to where we were and so will Fox.

Thnikkaman
11-08-2011, 12:56 PM
I would like to see this formation/play get extended as to work in a play action or a deep pass to keep the Defenders guessing.

slim
11-08-2011, 12:57 PM
I would like to see this formation/play get extended as to work in a play action or a deep pass to keep the Defenders guessing.

Adding a pass element would kill, IMO.

UnderArmour
11-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Fox can say whatever he likes, the chance that Elway is going to allow such a base offense? That's the real question...not to mention the minute the offense fails, we'll be right back to where we were and so will Fox.

Elway is not the head coach of this football team. John Fox makes the scheme calls. Elway doesn't have to "allow" anything. Come on man.

Lancane
11-08-2011, 01:10 PM
Elway is not the head coach of this football team. John Fox makes the scheme calls. Elway doesn't have to "allow" anything. Come on man.

John Elway is Fox's boss, period. He's already stated what he wants, he hasn't wavered either, he's maintained his position that Tebow needs to improve, and we're not talking about a slight improvement either. And the system is a gimmick offense that I'm rather sure Elway will not adhere to being a long term solution. Fans may not realize this because so many get wrapped up in the emotion of wins and losses, but statistically, Tebow is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league - no matter the win-loss record as a starter. Do you really see Elway allowing this to continue? Especially after the season? I sure the hell do not.

But, believe what you like. However, one thing you and others need to realize is that at the end of the day, Elway runs the football operations of this team in Bowlens name...if Fox is told to jump, then he'll jump or be in the UFL!

SiouxperBronco
11-08-2011, 02:00 PM
Sunday's offense will work with a healthy Tebow and a defense that has yet to figure out how to stop it. I'm pessimistic.....we're not going to be in this offense very long.

Ravage!!!
11-08-2011, 02:09 PM
It can work on occasion. Then you have the problem of being down in points. You have to pass to catch up and save clock, and you are trying to run the option.

Right now,its helping Tebow feel secure, safe, and comfortable. He certainly doesn't feel comfortable throwing the ball. But this isn't a style of offense that will work, on a regular basis, in the NFL. Could work great in certain situations. Short down situations, and an occasional first down play.

Every running QB has had to try and learn how to be a pocket passer to be successful in the NFL. Its never been a question as to whether or not Tim can run. He LOVES to run. The question is whether or not he can actually pass.

broncohead
11-08-2011, 02:21 PM
The way to stop the play is simple. Keep your backside DE home. Don't bite

jhildebrand
11-08-2011, 05:58 PM
All the Wildcat did for Miami was get them into the PO's for one season to get smoked, a lower draft pick, and then set them back that one year because teams learned to defend that.

I don't want to be that team. I don't mind running it to get the kid into rhythm and to control the clock. Tebow, at least for me, has to show he can become a passer. So far he has shown the center exchange wont be a problem so there is some hope.

jhildebrand
11-08-2011, 05:59 PM
The way to stop the play is simple. Keep your backside DE home. Don't bite

Then Tebow just hands the ball off to McGahee. If the LB over pursues, then he will be off to the races. It isn't as simple as you make it.

wayninja
11-08-2011, 06:03 PM
It's simply silly to talk about it in terms of working all the time. No offense works all the time. You have to execute. Plain and simple. If you are executing your scheme better than the other guy is defending it, it can work.

We aren't really a good football team. I'm amazed Tebow has a 2-1 record and I'm amazed we beat Oakland in the black hole. If we lose some games using it, I'm not going to dismiss it nor will I be surprised. If you are expecting a scheme where we don't lose another game this season, you just aren't living in reality.

jhildebrand
11-08-2011, 06:11 PM
It's simply silly to talk about it in terms of working all the time. No offense works all the time. You have to execute. Plain and simple. If you are executing your scheme better than the other guy is defending it, it can work.

We aren't really a good football team. I'm amazed Tebow has a 2-1 record and I'm amazed we beat Oakland in the black hole. If we lose some games using it, I'm not going to dismiss it nor will I be surprised. If you are expecting a scheme where we don't lose another game this season, you just aren't living in reality.

The idea is to use it enough to bait teams into it, then build off it i.e. play action.

wayninja
11-08-2011, 06:17 PM
The idea is to use it enough to bait teams into it, then build off it i.e. play action.

That's certainly a viable way to go. Using it in this game doesn't 'lock us in'. There's way to use it deceptively and part-time. I guess I'm just saying that its's simply not as cut and dry, or black and white as some folks are making it out to be.

Locnar
11-08-2011, 06:20 PM
Whatever makes us a two dimensional offense. You could fart the ball out a cannon, as long as balls get caught by our team and we win, that's all I care about..

broncohead
11-08-2011, 06:23 PM
Then Tebow just hands the ball off to McGahee. If the LB over pursues, then he will be off to the races. It isn't as simple as you make it.

I understand the zone read. The backside DE is not the only player that can stop the RB... We are just lucky it was against Moss when Tebow broke the big run.

catfish
11-08-2011, 06:36 PM
The idea is to use it enough to bait teams into it, then build off it i.e. play action.

keeping in mind most teams are going to have what like 3-4 days to prepare for an offense they won't see again. it may hurt their prep for the pass game

UnderArmour
11-09-2011, 08:13 AM
John Elway is Fox's boss, period. He's already stated what he wants, he hasn't wavered either, he's maintained his position that Tebow needs to improve, and we're not talking about a slight improvement either. And the system is a gimmick offense that I'm rather sure Elway will not adhere to being a long term solution. Fans may not realize this because so many get wrapped up in the emotion of wins and losses, but statistically, Tebow is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league - no matter the win-loss record as a starter. Do you really see Elway allowing this to continue? Especially after the season? I sure the hell do not.

But, believe what you like. However, one thing you and others need to realize is that at the end of the day, Elway runs the football operations of this team in Bowlens name...if Fox is told to jump, then he'll jump or be in the UFL!

Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen want to see Tebow as our starting quarterback because it makes the Broncos nationally relevant and puts huge sums of dollars in their coffers. Tebowmania is making the Broncos big time cash, far more than any quarterback in April will. Gimmick or not, if we win ball games now and it works on the field, Tim Tebow will be the quarterback for another year. Every time Tebow wins a ball game, Joe Ellis and the Broncos front office pop champagne bottles like they just won the World Series. The Miami game? Joe Ellis probably passed out from foaming at the mouth too much.

Nobody wants Tebow to be the face of the franchise more than Bowlen and Ellis do, even if it involves running a gimmick offense. If we finish 7-9 or better, Tebow will be our quarterback next year and we will draft to run the spread. It just makes WAY too much business sense to let Tebow run his show on the football field even if it may not be conventional thinking.

Tned
11-09-2011, 08:32 AM
I would like to see this formation/play get extended as to work in a play action or a deep pass to keep the Defenders guessing.

Yep, that's my feeling as well. I don't want to see Tebow running 10-15 times a game. Especially not between the tackles, other than a QB sneak or rare QB draw for a TD or key conversion. The draw should be the rare run, not the bread and butter.

I'm less concerned about him running outside, whether with the read/option or some type of naked boot. Either way, I would like to see it more of a pass/run option. I put pass first, because I think they should be using the run game and the threat of Tebow running to setup the passing game. When they play the pass too hard and there is a bunch of green in front of Tebow, let him take off for a big gain and then slide before taking the hit.

rcsodak
11-09-2011, 08:34 AM
Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen want to see Tebow as our starting quarterback because it makes the Broncos nationally relevant and puts huge sums of dollars in their coffers. Tebowmania is making the Broncos big time cash, far more than any quarterback in April will. Gimmick or not, if we win ball games now and it works on the field, Tim Tebow will be the quarterback for another year. Every time Tebow wins a ball game, Joe Ellis and the Broncos front office pop champagne bottles like they just won the World Series. The Miami game? Joe Ellis probably passed out from foaming at the mouth too much.

Nobody wants Tebow to be the face of the franchise more than Bowlen and Ellis do, even if it involves running a gimmick offense. If we finish 7-9 or better, Tebow will be our quarterback next year and we will draft to run the spread. It just makes WAY too much business sense to let Tebow run his show on the football field even if it may not be conventional thinking.
UA=Gator?

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Tned
11-09-2011, 08:40 AM
Joe Ellis and Pat Bowlen want to see Tebow as our starting quarterback because it makes the Broncos nationally relevant and puts huge sums of dollars in their coffers. Tebowmania is making the Broncos big time cash, far more than any quarterback in April will. Gimmick or not, if we win ball games now and it works on the field, Tim Tebow will be the quarterback for another year. Every time Tebow wins a ball game, Joe Ellis and the Broncos front office pop champagne bottles like they just won the World Series. The Miami game? Joe Ellis probably passed out from foaming at the mouth too much.

Nobody wants Tebow to be the face of the franchise more than Bowlen and Ellis do, even if it involves running a gimmick offense. If we finish 7-9 or better, Tebow will be our quarterback next year and we will draft to run the spread. It just makes WAY too much business sense to let Tebow run his show on the football field even if it may not be conventional thinking.

Just out of curiosity, how is Tebow making them big time cash? Based On my understanding of what revenue goes into league coffers vs. Broncos coffers, I just don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something.

UnderArmour
11-09-2011, 08:50 AM
Just out of curiosity, how is Tebow making them big time cash? Based On my understanding of what revenue goes into league coffers vs. Broncos coffers, I just don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something.

People go out and buy more Broncos gear and tune into more Broncos games. More attention=more money for the team. I don't know the ins-and-outs of revenue sharing, but I know the amount of national exposure that the Broncos are getting now is good for Bowlen's pocket book.

Also @rcsodak, I'm not a Gator fan. I just like Tebow's skill set and the toughness he plays the game with. I actually like what I've seen of Tebow so far more than what I've seen of any Broncos quarterback since Elway. Check my join date, I'm definitely not some fair weather Gator fan lol. Tebow is a Bronco so obviously I want him to do well and lead this team to the playoffs.

Tned
11-09-2011, 09:09 AM
People go out and buy more Broncos gear and tune into more Broncos games. More attention=more money for the team. I don't know the ins-and-outs of revenue sharing, but I know the amount of national exposure that the Broncos are getting now is good for Bowlen's pocket book.


FWIW, my understanding is that it would be a relatively small cash infusion.

The Broncos sell out every game, so there is no increase in ticket sales. Granted, they are always trying to sell all the club seats, but I think they sell them all in the end. I suppose fewer no-shows means more concessions sold, and the Broncos get a cut of that.

When it comes to Jerseys. My understanding is that nearly all of the money goes into the general NFL or NFLPA coffers for revenue sharing. I read one place that something like 12 cents a Jersey goes to the team, but can't say for sure that number is accurate. Also, I think the stuff sold directly through the Broncos shop gives them more sales, because they are the retailer so getting the retail markup. However, I would imagine a small minority of Broncos gear is bought through their shop.

Obviously, national TV revenue (the largest portion of the NFL revenue by far) is split among the teams, so there is no advantage to the Broncos there. I suppose they could demand a higher fee from the local TV if Tebow substantially raises the local viewership.

The fact that local teams get such a small part of the pie, even when they have some of the most popular players in the league, is why Jerry Jones setup separate deals with companies like Pepsi (when the league had a deal with Coke -- I might have those backwards), and produced a line of Cowboys merchandise that wasn't NFL licensed, so he could keep all of the license fees.

Anyway, as I said, there may be parts I'm missing, but I think people over estimate how much revenue Tebow generates for the Broncos. Now, I do remember someone posting a link to an article about the business of Tim Tebow or something like that. I didn't read it, but that might have some more details of how the Broncos are or can cash in on Tebow that I'm not aware of. I'm just going by non-Tebow related things I've heard about NFL revenues in the past.

TXBRONC
11-09-2011, 11:53 AM
All the Wildcat did for Miami was get them into the PO's for one season to get smoked, a lower draft pick, and then set them back that one year because teams learned to defend that.

I don't want to be that team. I don't mind running it to get the kid into rhythm and to control the clock. Tebow, at least for me, has to show he can become a passer. So far he has shown the center exchange wont be a problem so there is some hope.


That's exactly what Fox said in the article we can't be one dimensional and that basically Tebow has to improve as passer.

jhildebrand
11-09-2011, 01:32 PM
That's exactly what Fox said in the article we can't be one dimensional and that basically Tebow has to improve as passer.

We aren't truly building if we are building around a player/sheme that only has a partial season to be successful. All we are doing is spit shining some old dog crap. It is absolutely correct that at some point T2 has to prove he can be a passer.

I want this team to build with emphasis on fundamentals not scheme. That way the build will be successful regardless of QB i.e. Balt, Pitt, etc...

BroncoStud
11-09-2011, 02:15 PM
Big Ben couldn't pass worth a crap his rookie season, he did JUST ENOUGH to keep the Steelers offense moving. Give it time.

hamrob
11-09-2011, 11:47 PM
John Elway is Fox's boss, period. He's already stated what he wants, he hasn't wavered either, he's maintained his position that Tebow needs to improve, and we're not talking about a slight improvement either. And the system is a gimmick offense that I'm rather sure Elway will not adhere to being a long term solution. Fans may not realize this because so many get wrapped up in the emotion of wins and losses, but statistically, Tebow is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league - no matter the win-loss record as a starter. Do you really see Elway allowing this to continue? Especially after the season? I sure the hell do not.

But, believe what you like. However, one thing you and others need to realize is that at the end of the day, Elway runs the football operations of this team in Bowlens name...if Fox is told to jump, then he'll jump or be in the UFL!Yeah, I'd certainly qualify John Fox as a QB expert!!! Please.

The offense will not change all that much at all. Fox is a run-the-ball coach. In Carolina he was a run 55% of the plays coach. That is his offensive strategy. We are very close to that right now.

Take a look at the total plays from each of the last 3 games and do the math. Pretty close...RIGHT NOW...as it exists.

What needs to happen???

Tebow needs to improve each week (and he will have some setback as other young qb's do).

If Tebow throw 25 passes and completes 15 of them each week for 7yds a throw...and we have a top 5 running game.....

WE WILL BE A PLAYOFF TEAM!

We're really not that far off.

** But he has to be smart with the ball (low turnovers)...and he has to help the run game.

Thnikkaman
11-12-2011, 06:56 PM
I'll take a balanced offence that executes

dogfish
11-12-2011, 08:18 PM
FWIW, my understanding is that it would be a relatively small cash infusion.

The Broncos sell out every game, so there is no increase in ticket sales. Granted, they are always trying to sell all the club seats, but I think they sell them all in the end. I suppose fewer no-shows means more concessions sold, and the Broncos get a cut of that.

When it comes to Jerseys. My understanding is that nearly all of the money goes into the general NFL or NFLPA coffers for revenue sharing. I read one place that something like 12 cents a Jersey goes to the team, but can't say for sure that number is accurate. Also, I think the stuff sold directly through the Broncos shop gives them more sales, because they are the retailer so getting the retail markup. However, I would imagine a small minority of Broncos gear is bought through their shop.

Obviously, national TV revenue (the largest portion of the NFL revenue by far) is split among the teams, so there is no advantage to the Broncos there. I suppose they could demand a higher fee from the local TV if Tebow substantially raises the local viewership.

The fact that local teams get such a small part of the pie, even when they have some of the most popular players in the league, is why Jerry Jones setup separate deals with companies like Pepsi (when the league had a deal with Coke -- I might have those backwards), and produced a line of Cowboys merchandise that wasn't NFL licensed, so he could keep all of the license fees.

Anyway, as I said, there may be parts I'm missing, but I think people over estimate how much revenue Tebow generates for the Broncos. Now, I do remember someone posting a link to an article about the business of Tim Tebow or something like that. I didn't read it, but that might have some more details of how the Broncos are or can cash in on Tebow that I'm not aware of. I'm just going by non-Tebow related things I've heard about NFL revenues in the past.

Twelve cents is a lot.


Sincerely,

Joe Ellis