John Elway on the ticket 11-7

[Denver Native (Carol)]

To hear what John said:

http://www.denverssportsstation.com/page/The_John_Elway_Show/59

Also, the Denver Post has recapped what John said this morning:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/07/elway-tim-tebow-improved-against-the-raiders/10597/

[GEM]

I like that Elway doesn't just fall into the Timmy did great crowd. He throws in some compliments along with what he feels Timmy needs to work on. He doesn't throw him under the bus, but his comments give Tim an idea of what is expected and what his boss feels will make him a better player.

I get the feeling that Elway has learned how to work with Tim and how to get the most out of Tim.

It felt like yesterday a lot of the stuff we have been bitching about are coming together and there are glimpses of what could be if we keep going in this direction.

Finally....I can't wait to see Von Miller in a couple seasons, he is going to be a monster with a couple seasons of experience. I liked his 15 yd penalty. It was worth it to show the Raiders that they weren't the only ones who could put licks on a QB. Palmer looked like was ready to find his couch again after that hit. :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

From the Denver Post recap:


A lot of Tebow’s success yesterday — namely, 118 yards rushing — came from the read-option, a college offense where the quarterback decides between keeping the ball or handing off to his running back. Elway said the play that was so successful against Oakland wasn’t new to the playbook.

“It’s really pretty much been in there week-in and week-out, we really just did a better job of execution,” Elway said. “Everybody’s getting more comfortable with it.

“The play’s been in,” he added. “I know it looked like it was a new play because we had so much success with it.”

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/07/elway-tim-tebow-improved-against-the-raiders/10597/

[Tned]

I can't remember if it was on Vic & Gary or Rome a few minutes ago (I think on Rome) where when asked if Tebow was likely to be his QB next fall, Elway said he didn't know and Tebow had a long way to go, a lot of areas to improve upon (paraprhasing, of course).

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Within the DP article - you can click on the words "came from the read-option", and it takes you to this article;


OAKLAND, Calif. — Football on Sundays has become an aerial show. Knowing that Tim Tebow is not a conventional Sunday quarterback, the Broncos' coaching staff came up with an innovative idea against the Oakland Raiders: They brought football back to Saturdays.

Using a read-option running attack that hasn't been seen in the NFL since . . . since . . . since when? Since before helmets had face masks? Anyway, the Broncos defeated the Oakland Raiders 38-24 at O.co Coliseum on Sunday in an AFC West game that was widely characterized as an upset.

But the surprise was on the edge of the Raiders' defensive front that kept crashing inside as Tebow kept the ball around end. With Tebow either keeping the ball or handing off to Willis McGahee — he had the option to choose which one — the Broncos amassed 299 yards rushing. In the Broncos' best running game since the year 2000, Tebow, the quarterback, had 118 yards rushing, and McGahee, the running back, had 163.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19279625

[GEM]

I can't remember if it was on Vic & Gary or Rome a few minutes ago (I think on Rome) where when asked if Tebow was likely to be his QB next fall, Elway said he didn't know and Tebow had a long way to go, a lot of areas to improve upon (paraprhasing, of course).

And he is right in that regard. He has had 3 starts. 2 out of the 3 were pretty bad as far as QB play. 1 was pretty good as far as QB play. He would be lying if he said absolutely either way. We wanted transparency, we're getting it. I have no issue with it. I would be more upset if he said he absolutely is or he absolutely isn't after the last 3 weeks.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

From the second DP article I posted:


Come to think of it, the pass-heavy Sunday league does get a little monotonous, don't you think? Broncos offensive coordinator Mike McCoy did. So on several plays, McCoy designed plays that gave Tebow the option: From the shotgun, the lefty quarterback could hand off to McGahee or keep it himself and run around end.

"There were a couple of times when I was supposed to give it to him," Tebow said, as he finished putting on his tie in front of his locker. "But I thought I could beat the guy around end, so I kept it."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19279625

[Tned]

And he is right in that regard. He has had 3 starts. 2 out of the 3 were pretty bad as far as QB play. 1 was pretty good as far as QB play. He would be lying if he said absolutely either way. We wanted transparency, we're getting it. I have no issue with it. I would be more upset if he said he absolutely is or he absolutely isn't after the last 3 weeks.

Yep, agreed. I agree with your earlier comment about how John isn't just talking Timmy's praises.

While I think the crowd that prior to this last game, and some still, are saying that it is a 100% certainty that Tebow can't play in this league are simply spewing nonsense, I feel the same way about those that say Tebow will be great, if the coaches just let him play.

Right now, nobody, not Tebow, not the coaches, not the 'NFL experts" and not us fans know if Tebow can or can't be a quality NFL starter. If he keeps improving and doesn't have too many more games like Detroit or most of Miami, then he should get the rest of the season to gain experience and let the Broncos (and other teams that might be interested in trading for him)evaluate him.

[GEM]

Yep, agreed. I agree with your earlier comment about how John isn't just talking Timmy's praises.

While I think the crowd that prior to this last game, and some still, are saying that it is a 100% certainty that Tebow can't play in this league are simply spewing nonsense, I feel the same way about those that say Tebow will be great, if the coaches just let him play.

Right now, nobody, not Tebow, not the coaches, not the 'NFL experts" and not us fans know if Tebow can or can't be a quality NFL starter. If he keeps improving and doesn't have too many more games like Detroit or most of Miami, then he should get the rest of the season to gain experience and let the Broncos (and other teams that might be interested in trading for him)evaluate him.


Last week I was pretty down on Tebow. I still don't know that this offense will work against the upper echelon defenses of the league. I still don't think Tebow is our future, but I know for damn sure I don't want to give up a 3rd for Quinn. We need to stay the course with Tim, let him play it out and see if there is drastic improvement by the end of the season. If there isn't, we draft a QB. If there is, we keep Tim and use the #1 on another area. It's not like we don't have a shitload of spaces that need filling on this team. I'd much rather use the pick on a DT, MLB or CB so my hope is we don't need a QB. :shrugs:

[lgenf]

my favorite quote from Elway today

“I think (Tebow’s completion percentage) has to get higher,” Elway said. “I don’t think you can win consistently throwing 50 percent."

ha ha, it seems even Elway is surprised

[silkamilkamonico]

my favorite quote from Elway today

“I think (Tebow’s completion percentage) has to get higher,” Elway said. “I don’t think you can win consistently throwing 50 percent."

ha ha, it seems even Elway is surprised

He is very true though. People want to hate on Elway for that mantra because Elway was such a low % passer when he came into the league. He also came into the league when the NFL average for completion % was considerably lower than it is now. The entire NFL has a higher completion % than back then.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

my favorite quote from Elway today

“I think (Tebow’s completion percentage) has to get higher,” Elway said. “I don’t think you can win consistently throwing 50 percent."

ha ha, it seems even Elway is surprised

Why do you feel that Elway was surprised, stating that TT's completion percentage has to get higher. IMO, that is a given

[lgenf]

He is very true though. People want to hate on Elway for that mantra because Elway was such a low % passer when he came into the league. He also came into the league when the NFL average for completion % was considerably lower than it is now. The entire NFL has a higher completion % than back then.

I know, and it cracks me up

it's like he saying something that he wonders if it's really true

The NFL is way different now and with people like Rodgers setting the world on fire, it's going to continue to change, but I like what Tim is bringing to the table early here

[chazoe60]

Further proof that EFX is conspiring to undermine Tebow's career. Dispicable.


BTW can I Change my name to Jugsjr?

[Tned]

Last week I was pretty down on Tebow. I still don't know that this offense will work against the upper echelon defenses of the league. I still don't think Tebow is our future, but I know for damn sure I don't want to give up a 3rd for Quinn. We need to stay the course with Tim, let him play it out and see if there is drastic improvement by the end of the season. If there isn't, we draft a QB. If there is, we keep Tim and use the #1 on another area. It's not like we don't have a shitload of spaces that need filling on this team. I'd much rather use the pick on a DT, MLB or CB so my hope is we don't need a QB. :shrugs:

I'm not sure starting Quinn would give Cleveland the 3rd. You would think that since we are halfway through Quinn's second year in Denver, that even if he started the rest of the games, we might not trigger the condition that would jump it to a 3rd round pick. Don't know, though.

On Tebow, I have remained a "Jury's still out" guy with Tebow. I know that sounds like a wishy, washy fence sitter, but I think it's appropriate, because I just don't think you can evaluate a QB after 4, 5 or even 6 starts and determine if he's going to be a quality NFL starter. Add in the fact that he lost his second offseason and is on a horrible team, and it makes it even that much harder.

[lgenf]

Why do you feel that Elway was surprised, stating that TT's completion percentage has to get higher. IMO, that is a given

No Carol, not that

the way I read the quote it's more like, You can't win without throwing better than 50%, but we are.....

I think Tebow will get better, and things will become easier for him, and he will fall more in line with percentages that Elway had in his career, but he's not Brady, nor Manning, nor will he be

I just kind of took it like, Elway was saying something that he knows he has to say, but a win is a win

[GEM]

No Carol, not that

the way I read the quote it's more like, You can't win without throwing better than 50%, but we are.....

I think Tebow will get better, and things will become easier for him, and he will fall more in line with percentages that Elway had in his career, but he's not Brady, nor Manning, nor will he be

I just kind of took it like, Elway was saying something that he knows he has to say, but a win is a win

Elway isn't talking one game. He's talking many games and against good teams. I feel he is saying....in the long run, it's not something we could continue to get away with.

[lgenf]

Elway isn't talking one game. He's talking many games and against good teams. I feel he is saying....in the long run, it's not something we could continue to get away with.

yeah, that too

I see that GEM

[GEM]

The good thing lgenf...I saw improvement. I saw him hit receivers in stride. A big improvement over last week. Though...he had a few sail balls still. Hopefully he gets that corrected.

What I do know...Tim is one tough sob. He took some freaking hits yesterday, got up and did it again.

[Tned]

Elway isn't talking one game. He's talking many games and against good teams. I feel he is saying....in the long run, it's not something we could continue to get away with.

That's exactly what he's saying. There aren't too many people that believe you can win consistantly, for the long term, with a QB throwing 50% or less and running for 60-100 yards a game.

Another thing, everyone that says, he's tough, build an offense that allows him to do it. What happens when he gets hurt, and he will. Every player does, and a running QB is more likely to get hurt than a regular QB. You need to have a QB in the wings that can run the same offense. It's likely the reason the Eagles got Vince Young, as he can run a similar offense as Vick.

If the Broncos really were to decide to go with this read option, running offense like we saw against Oakland, they better have a backup QB that can run the same offense when Tebow goes down.

[Tned]

The good thing lgenf...I saw improvement. I saw him hit receivers in stride. A big improvement over last week. Though...he had a few sail balls still. Hopefully he gets that corrected.

What I do know...Tim is one tough sob. He took some freaking hits yesterday, got up and did it again.

Yea, and I "think" that blitzes that were sacks against Detroit, Tebow got the ball of and then took the hit against Oakland. I haven't rewatched it yet, but that was my impression watching it live. That he was getting the ball off quicker.

[slim]

That's exactly what he's saying. There aren't too many people that believe you can win consistantly, for the long term, with a QB throwing 50% or less and running for 60-100 yards a game.

Another thing, everyone that says, he's tough, build an offense that allows him to do it. What happens when he gets hurt, and he will. Every player does, and a running QB is more likely to get hurt than a regular QB. You need to have a QB in the wings that can run the same offense. It's likely the reason the Eagles got Vince Young, as he can run a similar offense as Vick.

If the Broncos really were to decide to go with this read option, running offense like we saw against Oakland, they better have a backup QB that can run the same offense when Tebow goes down.

I can't imagine they would go with that offense long-term.

I think it's smart to play it right now, while Tim is trying to find his way. They can start to phase out the read-option as the rest of his game progresses.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Further proof that EFX is conspiring to undermine Tebow's career. Dispicable.


BTW can I Change my name to Jugsjr?

:confused: :confused::confused:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I can't imagine they would go with that offense long-term.

I think it's smart to play it right now, while Tim is trying to find his way. They can start to phase out the read-option as the rest of his game progresses.

I like the read-option, because even if they do not use it, at least do not use it on a consistent basis, the opposing defense has to prepare for it. which then could open up some other plays.

[jhildebrand]

Remember when miami ran the wildcat and had success the first year doing it?

This is about the same. We will catch teams off. But if this team wants to be successful long term, then accuracy will be a major component of that.

[Tned]

I like the read-option, because even if they do not use it, at least do not use it on a consistent basis, the opposing defense has to prepare for it. which then could open up some other plays.

It would be nice if they transition it into more of a play action pass option, with a very rare Tebow run.

[catfish]

It would be nice if they transition it into more of a play action pass option, with a very rare Tebow run.

The read option is great for play action as coverage players freeze until they can determine who actually has the ball. I am curious to see if it will translate to more open recievers over the rest of the season

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Not long ago, a caller ask Les/JoJo if there was a chance that on some of the plays Tim did not look very good, were they right after one of the vicious hits that he took, and Les/JoJo agreed that there was a possibility that lead to at least some of the not so good plays.

[vandammage13]

Remember when miami ran the wildcat and had success the first year doing it?

This is about the same. We will catch teams off. But if this team wants to be successful long term, then accuracy will be a major component of that.

Except there is at least a threat of the pass out of it, which is something Miami did not have with Ronnie Brown running the wildcat.

Sure, the threat isn't huge right now, as Tebow still needs work, but it is much more of a threat than what Miami had.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

At 3:00 today, the fan will be playing this interview:

http://www.1043thefan.com/home.aspx

Also from today - Coach Fox's Press Conference:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Fox-Press-Conference/d15b5013-10d9-43e8-b769-0904a460c7d1

[Traveler]

If the Broncos really were to decide to go with this read option, running offense like we saw against Oakland, they better have a backup QB that can run the same offense when Tebow goes down.

Robert Griffen III, come on down! :D

[catfish]

That's exactly what he's saying. There aren't too many people that believe you can win consistantly, for the long term, with a QB throwing 50% or less and running for 60-100 yards a game.

Another thing, everyone that says, he's tough, build an offense that allows him to do it. What happens when he gets hurt, and he will. Every player does, and a running QB is more likely to get hurt than a regular QB. You need to have a QB in the wings that can run the same offense. It's likely the reason the Eagles got Vince Young, as he can run a similar offense as Vick.

If the Broncos really were to decide to go with this read option, running offense like we saw against Oakland, they better have a backup QB that can run the same offense when Tebow goes down.

with the amount of option/spread option QB's coming out of college these days you could get several as backups, they are usually rated low so it wouldn't even take high draft picks(not saying that Tebow is the future, just that dual threat QB's arent exactly rare nowadays)

[TXBRONC]

And he is right in that regard. He has had 3 starts. 2 out of the 3 were pretty bad as far as QB play. 1 was pretty good as far as QB play. He would be lying if he said absolutely either way. We wanted transparency, we're getting it. I have no issue with it. I would be more upset if he said he absolutely is or he absolutely isn't after the last 3 weeks.

Even this past start didn't start off all that great. Better than the previous two but still I thought it was a rather slow start.

[TXBRONC]

Robert Griffen III, come on down! :D

I don't think they want to run the offense in this way long term.

[chazoe60]

:confused: :confused::confused:

It was a poor attempt at humor targeting a recently banned member who used to toss around wild conspiracies. It went over like a lead balloon.

[catfish]

Even this past start didn't start off all that great. Better than previous two but still I thought it was a rather slow start.

I think that is all people should be looking for right now, anyone who thinks he is going to show up next week and light the world on fire is in for a dissapointment. I hope to see consistent improvement(wins would be a bonus)

[rcsodak]

No Carol, not that

the way I read the quote it's more like, You can't win without throwing better than 50%, but we are.....

I think Tebow will get better, and things will become easier for him, and he will fall more in line with percentages that Elway had in his career, but he's not Brady, nor Manning, nor will he be

I just kind of took it like, Elway was saying something that he knows he has to say, but a win is a win

Miami.
Oak - McFadden + rusty Palmer.

...nuff said.

PLUS, and not really touched on. But after Oak lost their C and had to reconfigure their OL, their running game went to shit to where they abandoned it.
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[catfish]

Miami.
Oak - McFadden + rusty Palmer.

...nuff said.

PLUS, and not really touched on. But after Oak lost their C and had to reconfigure their OL, their running game went to shit to where they abandoned it.
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all true, but the offense did put up 31 points(7 special teams). if they had managed to lose I would have a hard time pining it on the O

[Superchop 7]

Adapting to the single wing (wildcat) is alot easier than the spread/option.

I think we are cutting edge right now...... and it's simple.....Coach calls a pass play.....they are sitting in dime......Tebow audibles to run/option......we have 1 running play that can go to any of 6 gaps.....what makes this work is the dimension of the running QB.

The spread offense (mouse Davis) has always been a numbers game.....a numbers game in regards to passing.....what sets this apart is the dimension of running....BECAUSE....the defense can't key on the running back.....he may get the ball....he may not.

Did anyone notice how winded the Raider d-line was in the 4th Quarter?

[hamrob]

Why do you feel that Elway was surprised, stating that TT's completion percentage has to get higher. IMO, that is a givenWhat's so funny about Elway's comments...is that for his long and dubious career...his completion percentage was 56.9%. His rookie year he threw 47% and it took the Duke 10 years before he ever cracked 60%.

The 1997 year that we won our first SuperBowl...Elway threw for 55% completion percentage.

He should be glad that Reaves stuck with him in the beginning! I know we sure are!!!

[Lancane]

What's so funny about Elway's comments...is that for his long and dubious career...his completion percentage was 56.9%. His rookie year he threw 47% and it took the Duke 10 years before he ever cracked 60%.

The 1997 year that we won our first SuperBowl...Elway threw for 55% completion percentage.

He should be glad that Reaves stuck with him in the beginning! I know we sure are!!!

Again, another skewed misconception HR...Yes, Elway's overall completion percentage was 47.5. However, he was thrown in against Pittsburgh of all teams after having no first team reps, barely any coaching and with a struggling offensive line, he was sacked four times and intercepted once in less then a handful of plays, he had a completion percentage of 12.5 for the game. Overall, in six contest Elway had at least 50% completions or more out of eleven contests, and several games he didn't play the whole game. We also went to the playoffs that year which some people forget, where he had 66.7 percent completions...all this in what was one of the most conservative offenses of the season? Not too shabby. And it was the only season he threw for less then 50% percent in completions HR.

Matt Leinart - 1st Season: 56.8%, 2nd Season: 53.6%
Tim Couch - 1st Season: 55.9%, 2nd Season: 63.7%
Ryan Leaf - 1st Season: 45.3%, 2nd Season: 0%, 3rd Season 50.0%
JeMarcus Russell - 1st Season: 54.5%, 2nd Season: 53.8%
Akili Smith - 1st Season: 52.3%, 2nd Season: 44.2%
Cade McNown - 1st Season: 54.0%, 2nd Season: 55.0%
Jim Druckenmiller - 1st Season: 40.4%, 2nd Season: 0%, No 3rd Season
Brady Quinn - 1st Season: 37.5% (1 game), 2nd Season: 50.6%
David Carr - 1st Season: 52.5%, 2nd Season: 56.6%
Joey Harrington - 1st Season: 50.1%, 2nd Season: 55.8%

The above list is of the Ten Biggest Quarterback Draft Busts of All-Time, 95% of which proved more accurate passers then Tim Tebow in a similar time frame.

What about those that he's been compared to most?

Steve Young: 1st Season: 52.2%, 2nd Season: 53.7%
Jim McMahon: 1st Season: 57.1%, 2nd Season: 59.3%
Michael Vick: 1st Season: 44.2%, 2nd Season: 54.9%
Donovan McNabb: 1st Season: 49.1%, 2nd Season: 58.0%
Vince Young: 1st Season: 51.5%, 2nd Season: 62.3%
Ben Roethlisberger: 1st Season: 66.4%, 2nd Season: 62.7%
Randall Cunningham: 1st Season: 42.0%, 2nd Season: 53.1%
Fran Tarkenton: 1st Season: 60.3%, 2nd Season: 60.1%
Doug Flutie: 1st Season: 50.0%, 2nd Season: 52.6%
Steve McNair: 1st Season: 51.3%, 2nd Season: 61.5%

Of those listed above, only those with good overall completion percentages would go on to see Super Bowls, only three would walk away with a ring.

[TXBRONC]

No Carol, not that

the way I read the quote it's more like, You can't win without throwing better than 50%, but we are.....

I think Tebow will get better, and things will become easier for him, and he will fall more in line with percentages that Elway had in his career, but he's not Brady, nor Manning, nor will he be

I just kind of took it like, Elway was saying something that he knows he has to say, but a win is a win

No we're not. Besides that Elway also went on to say that he believe we can win consistently with a quarterback completing around just 50% or in Tim's case less than 50% of his passes. With Tebow at the helm we are 3-3 that doesn't constitute winning.

[tomjonesrocks]

I'll take a win over the Raiders any way I can get it, but Tebow really had one good *quarter*, not so much one good game.

So I think what Elway said was right on the money. Enjoy the win, but let's not act like Tebow's performance was something that it wasn't. He still needs to get a LOT better to be any kind of long-term solution. He stepped up in a tough situation and never quits though--which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for Orton.

Am also glad Tebow did well enough to keep Quinn on the bench--I really don't see any point of putting Quinn in at this point in the season. In that sense I didn't like what Elway said--Tebow's still a "week to week proposition"? Why? Because we may want to see what Weber can do?

[catfish]

I'll take a win over the Raiders any way I can get it, but Tebow really had one good *quarter*, not so much one good game.

So I think what Elway said was right on the money. Enjoy the win, but let's not act like Tebow's performance was something that it wasn't. He still needs to get a LOT better to be any kind of long-term solution. He stepped up in a tough situation and never quits though--which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for Orton.

Am also glad Tebow did well enough to keep Quinn on the bench--I really don't see any point of putting Quinn in at this point in the season. In that sense I didn't like what Elway said--Tebow's still a "week to week proposition"? Why? Because we may want to see what Weber can do?

I think saying Tebow had 1 good quarter is slightly innacurate. judging by the play by play I read he had 1 very bad quarter(2nd), the other three seemed ok

[TXBRONC]

Miami.
Oak - McFadden + rusty Palmer.

...nuff said.

PLUS, and not really touched on. But after Oak lost their C and had to reconfigure their OL, their running game went to shit to where they abandoned it.
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It's not that simple. Yes Palmer was rusty and he wasn't quite in sync with his receivers. So going in I figured he was prime to possibly throw a pick or two (three to be exact). At the same he still threw for over 300 yards and three touchdowns. Bush isn't McFadden but he still ran for 96 yards at 5.1 a clip.

Where Oakland screwed the pooch was on defense and special teams. They gave up nearly 300 yards rushing and couldn't stop us all game long. McGahee ripping off two runs of 20 plus yards has more to do with poor run defense than it did with interceptions.

[Lancane]

I'll take a win over the Raiders any way I can get it, but Tebow really had one good *quarter*, not so much one good game.

So I think what Elway said was right on the money. Enjoy the win, but let's not act like Tebow's performance was something that it wasn't. He still needs to get a LOT better to be any kind of long-term solution. He stepped up in a tough situation and never quits though--which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for Orton.

Am also glad Tebow did well enough to keep Quinn on the bench--I really don't see any point of putting Quinn in at this point in the season. In that sense I didn't like what Elway said--Tebow's still a "week to week proposition"? Why? Because we may want to see what Weber can do?

Actually, statistically it wasn't a good game, that fact is overshadowed due to the win. He ended the night with a completion percentage of 47.6, his fourth worst in that aspect and his worse game in overall passing yards give the San Diego game earlier this year, but he only played in part of that game, so it would be his worse game in yardage as a starter. In passing yards per game he's 42nd, that's worse then Blaine Gabbert and Charlie Whitehurst, he's 51st in completion percentage, that's worse then Luke McCown and Charlie Whitehurst, which is down right horrible.


"I think if you just look at John Fox in his postgame press conference, he certainly didn't seem overjoyed and thrilled," Mora said, "and they've won two of their last three games. But I think that John probably realizes that there are going to be limitations with a quarterback like Tim Tebow. You know he was great in college, and he's a great kid, and we all love everything about him, exceot for the fact that he can't throw the football well enough to win consistently in the NFL." - NFLN's Jim Mora

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e3ce4/article/even-in-victory-tebow-just-cant-seem-to-win-over-critics?module=HP11_headline_stack

As to whether or not he's the future is up for debate, but I don't see it happening if his stats remain as piss poor as they've been and continue to be.

[hamrob]

Again, another skewed misconception HR...Yes, Elway's overall completion percentage was 47.5. However, he was thrown in against Pittsburgh of all teams after having no first team reps, barely any coaching and with a struggling offensive line, he was sacked four times and intercepted once in less then a handful of plays, he had a completion percentage of 12.5 for the game. Overall, in six contest Elway had at least 50% completions or more out of eleven contests, and several games he didn't play the whole game. We also went to the playoffs that year which some people forget, where he had 66.7 percent completions...all this in what was one of the most conservative offenses of the season? Not too shabby. And it was the only season he threw for less then 50% percent in completions HR.

Matt Leinart - 1st Season: 56.8%, 2nd Season: 53.6%
Tim Couch - 1st Season: 55.9%, 2nd Season: 63.7%
Ryan Leaf - 1st Season: 45.3%, 2nd Season: 0%, 3rd Season 50.0%
JeMarcus Russell - 1st Season: 54.5%, 2nd Season: 53.8%
Akili Smith - 1st Season: 52.3%, 2nd Season: 44.2%
Cade McNown - 1st Season: 54.0%, 2nd Season: 55.0%
Jim Druckenmiller - 1st Season: 40.4%, 2nd Season: 0%, No 3rd Season
Brady Quinn - 1st Season: 37.5% (1 game), 2nd Season: 50.6%
David Carr - 1st Season: 52.5%, 2nd Season: 56.6%
Joey Harrington - 1st Season: 50.1%, 2nd Season: 55.8%

The above list is of the Ten Biggest Quarterback Draft Busts of All-Time, 95% of which proved more accurate passers then Tim Tebow in a similar time frame.

What about those that he's been compared to most?

Steve Young: 1st Season: 52.2%, 2nd Season: 53.7%
Jim McMahon: 1st Season: 57.1%, 2nd Season: 59.3%
Michael Vick: 1st Season: 44.2%, 2nd Season: 54.9%
Donovan McNabb: 1st Season: 49.1%, 2nd Season: 58.0%
Vince Young: 1st Season: 51.5%, 2nd Season: 62.3%
Ben Roethlisberger: 1st Season: 66.4%, 2nd Season: 62.7%
Randall Cunningham: 1st Season: 42.0%, 2nd Season: 53.1%
Fran Tarkenton: 1st Season: 60.3%, 2nd Season: 60.1%
Doug Flutie: 1st Season: 50.0%, 2nd Season: 52.6%
Steve McNair: 1st Season: 51.3%, 2nd Season: 61.5%

Of those listed above, only those with good overall completion percentages would go on to see Super Bowls, only three would walk away with a ring.Wrong. Steve Young??? Also, where is Elway on your list? He threw for 47% as a rookie and 55% in his 2nd year.

How much do you want to bet that Tebow is at 55% by the end of this year??

Also, why don't you take a look at their TD's to INT's and compare to Tim. The bottom line is...there's nothing to beat Tim up over when comparing him to others.

Two weeks from now when Tebow has enough attempts to be listed in the throwing stats...go take a look and see where he winds up.

[hamrob]

Actually, statistically it wasn't a good game, that fact is overshadowed due to the win. He ended the night with a completion percentage of 47.6, his fourth worst in that aspect and his worse game in overall passing yards give the San Diego game earlier this year, but he only played in part of that game, so it would be his worse game in yardage as a starter. In passing yards per game he's 42nd, that's worse then Blaine Gabbert and Charlie Whitehurst, he's 51st in completion percentage, that's worse then Luke McCown and Charlie Whitehurst, which is down right horrible.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e3ce4/article/even-in-victory-tebow-just-cant-seem-to-win-over-critics?module=HP11_headline_stack

As to whether or not he's the future is up for debate, but I don't see it happening if his stats remain as piss poor as they've been and continue to be.Do you realize how stupid your argument is? His passer rating was 98% in the game. He threw two td's with zero int's and both passes were for more than 25 yards. He also hit Thomas for a big gainer down the sideline that was perfectly placed over the CB and under the safety.

Keep hating.

[Tned]

Actually, statistically it wasn't a good game, that fact is overshadowed due to the win. He ended the night with a completion percentage of 47.6, his fourth worst in that aspect and his worse game in overall passing yards give the San Diego game earlier this year, but he only played in part of that game, so it would be his worse game in yardage as a starter. In passing yards per game he's 42nd, that's worse then Blaine Gabbert and Charlie Whitehurst, he's 51st in completion percentage, that's worse then Luke McCown and Charlie Whitehurst, which is down right horrible.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e3ce4/article/even-in-victory-tebow-just-cant-seem-to-win-over-critics?module=HP11_headline_stack

As to whether or not he's the future is up for debate, but I don't see it happening if his stats remain as piss poor as they've been and continue to be.

Nice one sided view of the stats.

He had a 98+ passer rating on Sunday, and even with his horrible Detroit game (his only loss) he's at 80 for the season, which if he had enough passes would slot him in right behind Rivers at 21, ahead of Bradford, Orton, Kolb, Flacco, Freeman, McCoy, Gabbert and some others.

His interception avoidance would put him second in the league, even though he's a few attempts short of qualifying.

Then, his "firsts" are adding up. Yes, we can and should say "team wins," yet at the same time the fact remains that the Broncos had the worst record in football over the previous 31 games when Tebow took over and they are now 2-1 with him as starter. In those two wins, one of them was the first time ever a team was down by 15+ points with three minutes and won. The other was only the fourth time in Broncos history where the Broncos scored 31 points in the second half, and the first time in about 40 years.

In addition, the Broncos rushing over the last four games is the fourth highest four game total in Broncos history.

All this being led by a second year QB, making only his sixth start, after having lost his second offseason and without the benefit of getting first team reps in training camp, preseason or the first five weeks of the season.

Will he be a long term viable starter? Nobody knows at this point, but you guys only focusing on the negative are as biased as the Tebow lovers.