Imagine....

[MileHiWildcat]

if Tebow had a real offensive line, better receiving corps, and a competent coaching staff.

Orton would have been carried out on a stretcher today.

[camdisco24]

I'll just take a better offensive line at this point.

jk, I want McCoy outta here ASAP.

[lgenf]

Let's just are one step at a time

[broncohead]

if Tebow had a real offensive line, better receiving corps, and a competent coaching staff.

Orton would have been carried out on a stretcher today.

hahaha your a jokester

[GEM]

Someone needs to find himself a Tebow nut hugger forum.

[Tned]

if Tebow had a real offensive line, better receiving corps, and a competent coaching staff.

Orton would have been carried out on a stretcher today.

I'm not an Orton fan, but the fact is that Orton wouldn't have been blitzed like that. Tebow is being blitzed like no other QB in the NFL, because he has failed to make the throws that make teams leary of throwing zero blitzes at him.

[Northman]

While Denver's Oline needs more experience and improvement they are still ranked in the middle of the pack. I guess it could be said that if Tebow could actually hit wide open receivers with more consistency we might actually be good too.

[broncohead]

While Denver's Oline needs more experience and improvement they are still ranked in the middle of the pack. I guess it could be said that if Tebow could actually hit wide open receivers with more consistency we might actually be good too.

Or stepped up in the pocket. He gets very uncomfortable when all he needs to do is step up

[catfish]

While Denver's Oline needs more experience and improvement they are still ranked in the middle of the pack. I guess it could be said that if Tebow could actually hit wide open receivers with more consistency we might actually be good too.

I'm sure we could pick apart the performances of any person on the team. I vote we choose to focus on the positives for now, there is an entire week to tear this win apart. Let it wait till tomorrow. Denver beat the raiders by a great effort from everyone on the team. Great win!

[Northman]

I'm sure we could pick apart the performances of any person on the team. I vote we choose to focus on the positives for now, there is an entire week to tear this win apart. Let it wait till tomorrow. Denver beat the raiders by a great effort from everyone on the team. Great win!

Which is basically what i was telling the guy who started this thread.

[I Eat Staples]

More like imagine what this team could do with a real QB.

[Tned]

More like imagine what this team could do with a real QB.

Yea, like stop Michael Bush or a QB that was on his couch 3 weeks ago?

[catfish]

Which is basically what i was telling the guy who started this thread.

I apologize, I didn't mean to single you out I was referring to anyone that was choosing to pick out negatives after a great win ( I understand you were just trying to hit a Tebow homer where it hurts)

[I Eat Staples]

Yea, like stop Michael Bush or a QB that was on his couch 3 weeks ago?

Everyone knows our defense still needs a LOT of work, but a QB is more important. Peyton Manning won a superbowl with an AWFUL defense. Same with Brees and the Saints.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Everyone knows our defense still needs a LOT of work, but a QB is more important. Peyton Manning won a superbowl with an AWFUL defense. Same with Brees and the Saints.

Except that in both cases, it was the defense that stepped up and got them into those Superbowls. The Colts defense played lights out in the playoffs and the Saints defense beat the crap out of Favre and got the game winning pick in both the NFCCG and the Superbowl.

Even elite QBs can't do it alone, Elway is living proof.

[Tned]

Everyone knows our defense still needs a LOT of work, but a QB is more important. Peyton Manning won a superbowl with an AWFUL defense. Same with Brees and the Saints.

And as they just said on NFL Network, Peyton Manning set a rookie record for INTs in a season.

It's been six games, neither you, I or anyone else knows what kind of QB Tebow is going to be when it's all said and done.

At least we have a chance to win with him, unlike we have since McDaniels traded Cutler away.

[NightTerror218]

And as they just said on NFL Network, Peyton Manning set a rookie record for INTs in a season.

It's been six games, neither you, I or anyone else knows what kind of QB Tebow is going to be when it's all said and done.

At least we have a chance to win with him, unlike we have since McDaniels traded Cutler away.

He is 3-3 as a starter. Best QB in couple years.

[silkamilkamonico]

......if tebow could pass like an nfl qb. hed be amazing with his ability to make olays with his feet.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

http://www.r3vlimited.com/gallery/files/1/4/7/1/3/troll_thread.jpg


Please folks, I'm begging you... Just let this one die... please?!?!

:help:

[CrazyHorse]

It would be fun to have Tebow and Rodgers to switch places and see how they perform.

[silkamilkamonico]

It would be fun to have Tebow and Rodgers to switch places and see how they perform.

That would not even be fair to Tebow. Rodgers is on his way to a HoF career, and will make a serious argument for GOAT when he is done. Tebow is just trying to show Denver he can progress to the point where they will chance another year with him.

[TXBRONC]

if Tebow had a real offensive line, better receiving corps, and a competent coaching staff.

Orton would have been carried out on a stretcher today.

How are five offensive lineman suppose to block 6, 7, or 8 rushers at a time? Also a quarterback who is erratic to say the least can make any receiving corp look bad.

[I Eat Staples]

Except that in both cases, it was the defense that stepped up and got them into those Superbowls. The Colts defense played lights out in the playoffs and the Saints defense beat the crap out of Favre and got the game winning pick in both the NFCCG and the Superbowl.

Even elite QBs can't do it alone, Elway is living proof.

The Colts defense was as bad then as it is now. They're 0-9 without Peyton. That's how much of a difference an elite QB makes. Neither of those teams even sniff the playoffs without an elite QB. Flukes happen, which is what happened when their defense played well.


And as they just said on NFL Network, Peyton Manning set a rookie record for INTs in a season.

It's been six games, neither you, I or anyone else knows what kind of QB Tebow is going to be when it's all said and done.

At least we have a chance to win with him, unlike we have since McDaniels traded Cutler away.

Tebow has SEVERAL flaws that Manning (or any other 1st round pick) didn't have. It's not about the numbers at all for me, I understand that rookie mistakes will happen and everyone needs time to learn. Tebow just looks so far behind every other QB taken in the 1st round.

[catfish]

The Colts defense was as bad then as it is now. They're 0-9 without Peyton. That's how much of a difference an elite QB makes. Neither of those teams even sniff the playoffs without an elite QB. Flukes happen, which is what happened when their defense played well.



Tebow has SEVERAL flaws that Manning (or any other 1st round pick) didn't have. It's not about the numbers at all for me, I understand that rookie mistakes will happen and everyone needs time to learn. Tebow just looks so far behind every other QB taken in the 1st round.

I think we can all agree that Tebow has flaws, accuracy mechanics etc. I think what Tned was trying to point out that while he is behind yound QB's in some things, the good decision making that leads to less turnovers should be looked at as a positive in a run first ball control offense

[I Eat Staples]

I think we can all agree that Tebow has flaws, accuracy mechanics etc. I think what Tned was trying to point out that while he is behind yound QB's in some things, the good decision making that leads to less turnovers should be looked at as a positive in a run first ball control offense

I don't really think he makes good decisions. He just gets sacked so much and throws so many passes 10 yards out of everyone's reach that there isn't much of a chance for interceptions.

[Superchop 7]

TD's 6 INT's 1

Yeah, horrible decisions.

[I Eat Staples]

TD's 6 INT's 1

Yeah, horrible decisions.


I don't really think he makes good decisions. He just gets sacked so much and throws so many passes 10 yards out of everyone's reach that there isn't much of a chance for interceptions.

:welcome:

[Cugel]

if Tebow had a real offensive line, better receiving corps, and a competent coaching staff.

Orton would have been carried out on a stretcher today.

Imagine we had Andrew Luck. Or Barkley. Those are imaginings worth having and could even come true. :ranger:

[Cugel]

The Colts defense was as bad then as it is now. They're 0-9 without Peyton. That's how much of a difference an elite QB makes. Neither of those teams even sniff the playoffs without an elite QB. Flukes happen, which is what happened when their defense played well.

Tebow has SEVERAL flaws that Manning (or any other 1st round pick) didn't have. It's not about the numbers at all for me, I understand that rookie mistakes will happen and everyone needs time to learn. Tebow just looks so far behind every other QB taken in the 1st round.

I think Elway has already made up his mind about Tebow. He's said over and over again that you need a pocket passing QB to win the SB, and nothing he's said indicates he's changed his mind about Tebow.

Of course if Tebow leads the Broncos on a big winning streak his hands may be forced to keep Tebow. First of all it would make landing a QB in the draft much more difficult.

But, it would also solidify the fan base behind Tebow which would cause much angst if they then dealt him. Even so, if Elway had a chance to trade up for Luck or Barkley (unlikely) I think he would take it.

[catfish]

I think Elway has already made up his mind about Tebow. He's said over and over again that you need a pocket passing QB to win the SB, and nothing he's said indicates he's changed his mind about Tebow.

Of course if Tebow leads the Broncos on a big winning streak his hands may be forced to keep Tebow. First of all it would make landing a QB in the draft much more difficult.

But, it would also solidify the fan base behind Tebow which would cause much angst if they then dealt him. Even so, if Elway had a chance to trade up for Luck or Barkley (unlikely) I think he would take it.

I agree about Tebow not being here next year, I actually am hoping he plays well enough for him to get a shot elsewhere/get Denver a decent trade value for him

[Dreadnought]

I don't really think he makes good decisions. He just gets sacked so much and throws so many passes 10 yards out of everyone's reach that there isn't much of a chance for interceptions.

Thats just silly. Now you are contorting things so far past the reality of the situation that you're risking your credibility. He was sacked once last game, and threw zero picks, one in 3.5 games. He has identifiable problems, but some of you guys are becoming parodies.


I can't remember who it was who actually criticized the 27 yard TD throw to Decker during the game thread as somehow "inaccurate" (and I don't want to search), but it was such an absurd assertion that it was clear that it was based entirely on hoping against hope that Tebow will fail rather than anything else. Who the Hell knows why. Its the mirror image of Jagsbch-ism, and why I'm now mostly tuning out the critics.

[catfish]

Thats just silly. Now you are contorting things so far past the reality of the situation that you're risking your credibility. He was sacked once last game, and threw zero picks, one in 3.5 games. He has identifiable problems, but some of you guys are becoming parodies.


I can't remember who it was who actually criticized the 27 yard TD throw to Decker during the game thread as somehow "inaccurate" (and I don't want to search), but it was such an absurd assertion that it was clear that it was based entirely on hoping against hope that Tebow will fail rather than anything else. Who the Hell knows why. Its the mirror image of Jagsbch-ism, and why I'm now mostly tuning out the critics.

The post was by Lancane, I think he was more trying to give some credit to the reciever than say it was a bad throw

[I Eat Staples]

Thats just silly. Now you are contorting things so far past the reality of the situation that you're risking your credibility. He was sacked once last game, and threw zero picks, one in 3.5 games. He has identifiable problems, but some of you guys are becoming parodies.


I can't remember who it was who actually criticized the 27 yard TD throw to Decker during the game thread as somehow "inaccurate" (and I don't want to search), but it was such an absurd assertion that it was clear that it was based entirely on hoping against hope that Tebow will fail rather than anything else. Who the Hell knows why. Its the mirror image of Jagsbch-ism, and why I'm now mostly tuning out the critics.

It really isn't that silly at all. I wasn't talking about the Raider game, he wasn't great in that game but he did show improvement. But against Miami his passes were so far off target that no one was near them.

I'm glad he hasn't thrown many picks, but his decision making process is so absurdly slow that I can't call it "good."

[catfish]

It really isn't that silly at all. I wasn't talking about the Raider game, he wasn't great in that game but he did show improvement. But against Miami his passes were so far off target that no one was near them.

I'm glad he hasn't thrown many picks, but his decision making process is so absurdly slow that I can't call it "good."

If you are discount any games after the Miami game you would be correct. However I and other people will argue that there has been improvement in each game. He may have started out terribly, but you can't say he didn't improve last game. Not saying he wont regress next game(hoping he doesn't) just asking for a little credit that he made some improvement this game(far from winning the game singlehandedly like some seem to claim)

[Lancane]

If you are discount any games after the Miami game you would be correct. However I and other people will argue that there has been improvement in each game. He may have started out terribly, but you can't say he didn't improve last game. Not saying he wont regress next game(hoping he doesn't) just asking for a little credit that he made some improvement this game(far from winning the game singlehandedly like some seem to claim)

I have a serious question, what makes people believe that he improved? Because we won? Because he had over a 100 yards rushing?

Statistically, of the games he started which are a total of six from last year and this year, it was his worst game in terms of passing yards and one of hise less then stellar games regarding completion percentage. I believe people are riding the high of the win against a rival and it's blinding them...talking about "run more spread-option", "the spread-option will succeed", "see he's a franchise quarterback" or "he's really improved".

It's like that one drunk uncle that nobody likes to be around at family gatherings, he babbles incoherently trying to make a philosophical point, not realizing that he sounds like a complete horse's ass.

Sadly, Tebow's best game was against Houston last year and the offense that was utilized was spot on McDaniels' Air-Erhardt, then McCoy changed it up - for whatever freaking reason and he started to regress. And now they're planning on using more of the spread-option, even though his numbers are horrid? That tells me that either A) the coaches don't have a damn clue what they are doing or B) the coaches feel he can't run a competent, consistent pro-style offense. Neither of which is promising for us fans.

[hamrob]

Tebow is now 3-3 as a starter with the world against him...despite his stats being favorable to many young QB's during their first 6 games...and in many cases better. In fact, his stats blow Elway's a way in his first 6 games.

I remember Elway throwing ball after ball into either the dirt or over the receivers head...he was so excited and so worried about playing well...he shit the bed.

Keep hating.

What are you going to say after we beat the Queefs and are either tied for fist place or within reach?

People like the ones on this board who root against Tebow are pathetic. Have fun eating your crow.

[hamrob]

I have a serious question, what makes people believe that he improved? Because we won? Because he had over a 100 yards rushing?

Statistically, of the games he started which are a total of six from last year and this year, it was his worst game in terms of passing yards and one of hise less then stellar games regarding completion percentage. I believe people are riding the high of the win against a rival and it's blinding them...talking about "run more spread-option", "the spread-option will succeed", "see he's a franchise quarterback" or "he's really improved".

It's like that one drunk uncle that nobody likes to be around at family gatherings, he babbles incoherently trying to make a philosophical point, not realizing that he sounds like a complete horse's ass.

Sadly, Tebow's best game was against Houston last year and the offense that was utilized was spot on McDaniels' Air-Erhardt, then McCoy changed it up - for whatever freaking reason and he started to regress. And now they're planning on using more of the spread-option, even though his numbers are horrid? That tells me that either A) the coaches don't have a damn clue what they are doing or B) the coaches feel he can't run a competent, consistent pro-style offense. Neither of which is promising for us fans.Spoken by a true Orton-guzzler!

[catfish]

I have a serious question, what makes people believe that he improved? Because we won? Because he had over a 100 yards rushing?

Statistically, of the games he started which are a total of six from last year and this year, it was his worst game in terms of passing yards and one of hise less then stellar games regarding completion percentage. I believe people are riding the high of the win against a rival and it's blinding them...talking about "run more spread-option", "the spread-option will succeed", "see he's a franchise quarterback" or "he's really improved".

It's like that one drunk uncle that nobody likes to be around at family gatherings, he babbles incoherently trying to make a philosophical point, not realizing that he sounds like a complete horse's ass.

Sadly, Tebow's best game was against Houston last year and the offense that was utilized was spot on McDaniels' Air-Erhardt, then McCoy changed it up - for whatever freaking reason and he started to regress. And now they're planning on using more of the spread-option, even though his numbers are horrid? That tells me that either A) the coaches don't have a damn clue what they are doing or B) the coaches feel he can't run a competent, consistent pro-style offense. Neither of which is promising for us fans.

stepping back from the stats for just a second

game 1 miami - pretty much all around pathetic performance capped by approx 5 minutes of good play. several sacks

game 2 detroit - stats look awful, but passes are better than Miami of course many are still innacurate, but closer to being real passes. turnovers leading to point for other team several sacks

games 3 - oakland some passes still off most all of which come in the 2nd quarter 3 quarters of what I would describe as mostly solid performance. several passes that are sharp and thrown well, 2 td passes, zero turnovers, ypa at roughly 6 few sacks

if you are waiting for him to come out next week and go 65% completion rate you are going to be dissapointed. I have stated on many occasions that % completion is a completely useless stat as it doesn't account for quality of attempt. would you prefer a qb go 7/10 on 3 yd passes, or a qb go 2/4 on 30 yd passes? My suggestion is to go to a stats site, sort by completion % then sort by ypa and see which on in you opinon lines up with how you think the qb's fall(tebow is overall low in both. as he should be based on his play so far)Currently Tebow is throwing the highest percentage of attempts over 15 yds in the air in the league, by a lot, he is attempting 33% (almost 10% higher than all but a handful of qbs)


Besides that % completion doesnt take into account the ground game Tebow brings. Knock him all you want to he accounted for 242 yds of total offense on Sunday with zero turnovers. I personally would prefer he throw for 50% with zero turnovers than 60% with 2 or 3. Keep in mind the difference between a 50% and a 60% in this game is 2 completions be they for -1 yard or for 60 yds.

keep in mind the question is not can he keep it up in the future, but has he improved to date. To me he has, I think the coaches will say he has and I think if you honestly look at it you will think so too(try to set aside the drama he brings and the fact that he doesn't look like Aaron Rodgers). Do I think he is ready as a franchise QB, HELL no, do I think Denver should commit to him for next year, hell no. Do I think they should commit for the rest of the year a less emphatic no, but I do think he has shown improvement in several areas. He may not be Denver's future and he may still flame out in the NFL but judging a QB's performance based solely on completion percentage doesn't tell the whole story

[catfish]

Spoken by a true Orton-guzzler!

Easy on Lancane, I believe he honestly wants what is best for the team. We disagree on several issues, but I do respect his opinion and am not so egotistical that I believe my opinion is always correct. Everyone needs to step back and take a breath on the Tebow issue as it bring out the worst in us all

[Tned]

I have a serious question, what makes people believe that he improved? Because we won? Because he had over a 100 yards rushing?

Statistically, of the games he started which are a total of six from last year and this year, it was his worst game in terms of passing yards and one of hise less then stellar games regarding completion percentage. I believe people are riding the high of the win against a rival and it's blinding them...talking about "run more spread-option", "the spread-option will succeed", "see he's a franchise quarterback" or "he's really improved".

It's like that one drunk uncle that nobody likes to be around at family gatherings, he babbles incoherently trying to make a philosophical point, not realizing that he sounds like a complete horse's ass.

Sadly, Tebow's best game was against Houston last year and the offense that was utilized was spot on McDaniels' Air-Erhardt, then McCoy changed it up - for whatever freaking reason and he started to regress. And now they're planning on using more of the spread-option, even though his numbers are horrid? That tells me that either A) the coaches don't have a damn clue what they are doing or B) the coaches feel he can't run a competent, consistent pro-style offense. Neither of which is promising for us fans.

Have you been able to watch any of his starts this year, or are you just looking at the stats and highlights? Your statements sound like someone who hasn't watched the games.

[MOtorboat]

Have you been able to watch any of his starts this year, or are you just looking at the stats and highlights? You statements sound like someone who hasn't watched the games.

Instead of accusing people of not watching the games (or not reading, or not knowing the rules), maybe you should answer the question.

He made some better throws, most notably the touchdown passes, but he's still not been even average. The pass to Julius Thomas was terrible. Likewise the pass to Decker on the next pass was good.

The pass to Royal on the touchdown was solid, but I expect any NFL quarterback, rookie or not, to make that throw with ease.

Outside of those three throws, nothing stood out to me without rewatching the game, which I plan on doing. However, if only three throws stand out to me, and his rushing efforts are more prominent in my mind, I'm not comforted by his performance.

He's a winner, and that's obvious, but there aren't a lot of players that reach this level who are not, to some degree, winners. He has to be able to complete more than 50 percent of his passes to be successful. Hell, I've said I'd be perfectly fine with 55 percent.

His turnover margin has been very good, and his INT rate is stellar, which to me, means he's making solid decision with the ball, he's just not able to complete the passes on a consistent basis at this point.

The reads are getting better, from the eye test.

But, with all of that said, statistically, he has regressed, and it's a valid question as to why?

I chalk it up to the running game and special teams performances and therefore he didn't have to pass it, but it's certainly a question that needs to be answered.

BTW, you probably should remember the 'r' on 'your'.

[nflfan]

if Tebow had a real offensive line, better receiving corps, and a competent coaching staff.

Orton would have been carried out on a stretcher today.

With Tebow's current passing skills, a receiving corps of Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Wes Welker would still yield a criminally underperforming passing offense. Orton would definitely be able to get them the ball, though.

Wait for Tebow to build some basic QB'ing skills, before trying to turn him into a passing threat. He can learn a ton from Orton.

[catfish]

Instead of accusing people of not watching the games (or not reading, or not knowing the rules), maybe you should answer the question.

He made some better throws, most notably the touchdown passes, but he's still not been even average. The pass to Julius Thomas was terrible. Likewise the pass to Decker on the next pass was good.

The pass to Royal on the touchdown was solid, but I expect any NFL quarterback, rookie or not, to make that throw with ease.

Outside of those three throws, nothing stood out to me without rewatching the game, which I plan on doing. However, if only three throws stand out to me, and his rushing efforts are more prominent in my mind, I'm not comforted by his performance.

He's a winner, and that's obvious, but there aren't a lot of players that reach this level who are not, to some degree, winners. He has to be able to complete more than 50 percent of his passes to be successful. Hell, I've said I'd be perfectly fine with 55 percent.

His turnover margin has been very good, and his INT rate is stellar, which to me, means he's making solid decision with the ball, he's just not able to complete the passes on a consistent basis at this point.

The reads are getting better, from the eye test.

But, with all of that said, statistically, he has regressed, and it's a valid question as to why?

I chalk it up to the running game and special teams performances and therefore he didn't have to pass it, but it's certainly a question that needs to be answered.

BTW, you probably should remember the 'r' on 'your'.

There were a few passes other than the 2 TD passes that looked pretty good, the roll out left throw on the run wher he put the ball low and away to decker sticks out in my mind. Realistically goin back and watching the game I saw three decent(not god not great) quarters where things were clicking and we were moving the chains. 1 quarter of pathetic qb play(2nd)

as to the statistical regression lets reverse the garbage time arguement. In this game there was no garbage time so no real ability to pad stats at the end of the game. he turned in a performance stats wise on par with his other 2 games where all the yards came in "garbage time". would that in itself not indicate he played better?