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View Full Version : Good KOA interview with Tebow - worth listening to - addresses criticism, week of practice, etc



Tned
11-05-2011, 11:30 AM
Good interview, worth taking a few minutes to listen:

http://www.broncosradionetwork.com/player/?station=KOA2-IP&program_name=podcast&program_id=tebow.xml&mid=21561431

Northman
11-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Kid continues to be positive, lets hope he can prove on the field come Sunday.

Tned
11-05-2011, 12:04 PM
Kid continues to be positive, lets hope he can prove on the field come Sunday.

IMO, he's running out of time. While I think there is nothing to be gained by playing Quinn or Orton this season, if he has another game or two as bad as his first two, I would expect Fox to pull the plug on this experiment.

Lancane
11-05-2011, 12:13 PM
IMO, he's running out of time. While I think there is nothing to be gained by playing Quinn or Orton this season, if he has another game or two as bad as his first two, I would expect Fox to pull the plug on this experiment.

Your probably spot on T, I would say that this week is crucial. My opinion at least or what I believe is that if he looks like he did the last two games then he's done, there will be no fourth week and the experiment is over in Denver. If he looks bad and wins, Fox might hesitate...if he looks good and loses, Fox will continue to play him for another week and see if he can continue. Either way, as I posted in another thread, I think the Tebow issue is coming to a head.

Northman
11-05-2011, 12:14 PM
I think he gets at least one game beyond this. It just depends on how he plays. If he plays the same or better i think he gets another week. If he plays worse than i can see them just pulling the plug on him for now.

Davii
11-05-2011, 12:16 PM
IMO, he's running out of time. While I think there is nothing to be gained by playing Quinn or Orton this season, if he has another game or two as bad as his first two, I would expect Fox to pull the plug on this experiment.

I expect the same thing T, but I don't think that would be the right move. We ARE NOT going to win shit this year unless somehow Tim comes around an improves to the point where he can carry the rest of our deficiencies.

I think Tim should be afforded the rest of the year, why not? Does it really matter if Orton or Quinn wins us a game or two more?

I don't think so. Commit to Tebow, make him work harder than he ever has in his life. If he gets better, great.

I just don't see a positive to putting him back on the bench this season. Maybe someone can tell me what the positive would be?

Lancane
11-05-2011, 12:22 PM
I expect the same thing T, but I don't think that would be the right move. We ARE NOT going to win shit this year unless somehow Tim comes around an improves to the point where he can carry the rest of our deficiencies.

I think Tim should be afforded the rest of the year, why not? Does it really matter if Orton or Quinn wins us a game or two more?

I don't think so. Commit to Tebow, make him work harder than he ever has in his life. If he gets better, great.

I just don't see a positive to putting him back on the bench this season. Maybe someone can tell me what the positive would be?

No, but Fox is probably losing the locker room, he can not continue with an experiment that doesn't in fact give the team the best chance to win. He can not afford to do it, and what free agents will want to come here if we're not even trying to win? It would be different if he was playing like Newton, Dalton or Ponder, but it's not even close. Jimmy Clausen looks like a franchise quarterback in comparison.

Tned
11-05-2011, 12:24 PM
I expect the same thing T, but I don't think that would be the right move. We ARE NOT going to win shit this year unless somehow Tim comes around an improves to the point where he can carry the rest of our deficiencies.

I think Tim should be afforded the rest of the year, why not? Does it really matter if Orton or Quinn wins us a game or two more?

I don't think so. Commit to Tebow, make him work harder than he ever has in his life. If he gets better, great.

I just don't see a positive to putting him back on the bench this season. Maybe someone can tell me what the positive would be?

Agreed 100%. There is no good reason not to play him. Neither Orton or Quinn are long term answers. Personally, the only reason I could see benching him would be to see what they had in Weber, but as a rookie, practice squad guy, there really isn't a lot of reason to do that.

If I was in charge, I would have committed from the moment I went to him that he would start the final 11 games, and at the end of that decide if he was the long term answer or if we were drafting a QB.

Also, as to benching him. Unless he plays REALLY bad against Oakland, changing for the Jets game is probably unlikely, because of the short week. If they are going to change QBs, especially if it's going to Quinn, then the extra time after the Jets game makes the most sense.

Tned
11-05-2011, 12:28 PM
No, but Fox is probably losing the locker room, he can not continue with an experiment that doesn't in fact give the team the best chance to win. He can not afford to do it, and what free agents will want to come here if we're not even trying to win? It would be different if he was playing like Newton, Dalton or Ponder, but it's not even close. Jimmy Clausen looks like a franchise quarterback in comparison.

The team is 2-5, 1-1 with Tebow, and 8-25 in the last 33. They traded away arguably their best receiver, and have one of (if not the) youngest O-line in the NFL, one of the youngest receiving corps.

Nothing really gives this team the "best chance to win" right now. Do you honestly think having the team go 2-7 or 3-6 down the stretch with Orton, and then have him leave as a free agent is going to make Denver more attractive to free agents than playing Tebow to see whether or not he can make it as a starter?

Free agents join teams for one of two reasons. First, the team is the highest bidder. Second, the team is among the highest bidders AND the FA believes the team can be a Super Bowl contender.

Northman
11-05-2011, 12:32 PM
I expect the same thing T, but I don't think that would be the right move. We ARE NOT going to win shit this year unless somehow Tim comes around an improves to the point where he can carry the rest of our deficiencies.

I think Tim should be afforded the rest of the year, why not? Does it really matter if Orton or Quinn wins us a game or two more?

Win wise? No

But, i think the general idea when playing a young QB is making sure they are progressing as the year goes along. If he doesnt improve in this game by a big margin than i can understand the coaches just saying to themselves he needs more time to sit and learn. If Tim was improving than i would say give him the rest of the year but simply putting a guy out there who isnt progressing doesnt make a lot of sense and will only frustrate fans more.


I just don't see a positive to putting him back on the bench this season. Maybe someone can tell me what the positive would be?

Keeping fans interested.

Tned
11-05-2011, 12:36 PM
Win wise? No

But, i think the general idea when playing a young QB is making sure they are progressing as the year goes along. If he doesnt improve in this game by a big margin than i can understand the coaches just saying to themselves he needs more time to sit and learn. If Tim was improving than i would say give him the rest of the year but simply putting a guy out there who isnt progressing doesnt make a lot of sense and will only frustrate fans more.



Keeping fans interested.

How interested were they with Orton at QB? I think there were 6,000 no shows for the Cincy game, and there were screams for Tebow. Granted, many of those fickle fans have quickly turned on Tebow and now hate him, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no reason that Orton is going to be much better than he was the first two years worth of starts in Denver, and that won't create much fan interest.

I just don't see it.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-05-2011, 12:42 PM
I would think if TT is benched, it will then be Quinn, to see what he can do. I am thinking this way because I would believe it is 99.9% sure that Orton will not be here next year, unless he is assured that he will be the starter, which I can't see happening, with Orton being benched this year. With that in mind, that leaves Quinn and TT. If TT improves, then he will be the starter, and Quinn may be the backup, if he agrees to that. If TT does not pan out this year, they can try to trade him, or keep him, with the thought that he will be the backup starting out next year. If TT does not improve, or does not show promise, that would mean that the Broncos would have to draft two QB's, if both Quinn and Orton leave, and that would be tough, as there are many other needs that need to be addressed.

Northman
11-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Granted, many of those fickle fans have quickly turned on Tebow and now hate him,

And thats just it. They would hate Orton in there as well but its the nature of the beast. I dont think many fans really expected Tebow to be this BAD going forward especially the way he played last year. I think many including myself thought Tebow would play much better than he has at this point and while i didnt expect many wins i did expect to see a much more improved player all around compared to Orton. Now, im not saying that Quinn would be much better either but i just dont think fans are going to watch a guy keep overthrowing wide open receivers for the rest of the year. If that happens i expect the stadium to be quite empty by the end of the year. At this point i think they would rather watch a guy who can at the very least make simple passes even if it means sitting through Orton the remainder of the year.

Tned
11-05-2011, 01:01 PM
I would think if TT is benched, it will then be Quinn, to see what he can do. I am thinking this way because I would believe it is 99.9% sure that Orton will not be here next year, unless he is assured that he will be the starter, which I can't see happening, with Orton being benched this year. With that in mind, that leaves Quinn and TT. If TT improves, then he will be the starter, and Quinn may be the backup, if he agrees to that. If TT does not pan out this year, they can try to trade him, or keep him, with the thought that he will be the backup starting out next year. If TT does not improve, or does not show promise, that would mean that the Broncos would have to draft two QB's, if both Quinn and Orton leave, and that would be tough, as there are many other needs that need to be addressed.

I think this about sums it up. I don't think they would draft two QBs, however, but instead, assuming Quinn didn't want to sign as the veteran/backup role, then I think they would get one in free agency. There are usually several journeyman type QBs floating around each offseason. I'm not sure who's going to be a free agent this year, but that's what I would expect.


And thats just it. They would hate Orton in there as well but its the nature of the beast. I dont think many fans really expected Tebow to be this BAD going forward especially the way he played last year. I think many including myself thought Tebow would play much better than he has at this point and while i didnt expect many wins i did expect to see a much more improved player all around compared to Orton. Now, im not saying that Quinn would be much better either but i just dont think fans are going to watch a guy keep overthrowing wide open receivers for the rest of the year. If that happens i expect the stadium to be quite empty by the end of the year. At this point i think they would rather watch a guy who can at the very least make simple passes even if it means sitting through Orton the remainder of the year.

You might be right in terms of the fans. Speaking for myself, I was among the people from the start of the season saying that I would rather struggle all year and both give Tebow a chance to develop and the team a full season to evaluate him, then watch the team win 4-6 games with Orton. Now, I also said (kind of riding the fence, I know) that if Fox and company really believed they could compete for the AFC West title that it made sense to start Orton.

As to how he's played, he certainly has been much worse than I expected. I didn't necessarily expect him to be better than Orton. I expected the passing game to be better in some areas (as the albatross post Tned's Take: Passing game with Tebow will be better than with Orton stated), but I figured that he would likely be a 50-55% passer initially and make plenty of mistakes.

The problem is that he isn't playing anywhere near as good as he did in the three starts last year, and those starts weren't great. The regression was a total surprise to me, even with the comments from reporters about how inaccurate he'd been in camp/practice.

Still, IMO, unless they see Quinn as a viable starter going forward and are prepared to extend him a 'starting QB' contract, I think it's short sighted to start Quinn to try and pacify the fans. They need to use this time to develop and evaluate their young players, which includes Tebow.

Lancane
11-05-2011, 01:08 PM
The team is 2-5, 1-1 with Tebow, and 8-25 in the last 33. They traded away arguably their best receiver, and have one of (if not the) youngest O-line in the NFL, one of the youngest receiving corps.

Nothing really gives this team the "best chance to win" right now. Do you honestly think having the team go 2-7 or 3-6 down the stretch with Orton, and then have him leave as a free agent is going to make Denver more attractive to free agents than playing Tebow to see whether or not he can make it as a starter?

Free agents join teams for one of two reasons. First, the team is the highest bidder. Second, the team is among the highest bidders AND the FA believes the team can be a Super Bowl contender.

What you believe and what the players believe can be drastically different. If they feel Tebow is nothing but a poor experiment and really not improving the overall ability of the team, then they'll have issues...whether they air it or not.

And free agents do take notice of more then money, if a good free agent goes to a team he'll look at the win-loss record, what sort of improvements they're making to be successful if they are not at that time. Look at Oakland, name a good free agent they've signed in the last decade other then there own? And now there becoming a hot spot...remember when we use to laugh because the types they did sign? Now look at what we're becoming, do you really think free agents are going to be interested in a team that isn't doing whatever it can to win? Not to mention that those already on the roster are looking at it the same way.

Tned
11-05-2011, 01:15 PM
What you believe and what the players believe can be drastically different. If they feel Tebow is nothing but a poor experiment and really not improving the overall ability of the team, then they'll have issues...whether they air it or not.

And free agents do take notice of more then money, if a good free agent goes to a team he'll look at the win-loss record, what sort of improvements they're making to be successful if they are not at that time. Look at Oakland, name a good free agent they've signed in the last decade other then there own? And now there becoming a hot spot...remember when we use to laugh because the types they did sign? Now look at what we're becoming, do you really think free agents are going to be interested in a team that isn't doing whatever it can to win? Not to mention that those already on the roster are looking at it the same way.

What you are saying would be much more of an issue on a team that didn't have 25 losses in the last 33 games -- didn't have 5 losses in their 7 games this season.

There are very few players/positions on this team that can be identified as not being part of the reason for all those losses.

I know you didn't forget that this team was 1-4 with Orton, before the Tebow experiment, AKA, Orton being benched for horrid play.

So, if you were taking this position on a team that's been a winning team, been making playoff runs and just coming up short, etc., I would agree wholeheartedly, but this team has been nowhere near that type of team since '08. The Broncos are in full blown rebuild mode, and they have a lot more to worry about than whether or not they will be able to sign free agents in the ''12 offseason -- especially since they will probably be as conservative in free agency next year, as this year. 2013 is the first year I would expect them to be big free agency players, assuming their young players (on team now and drafted in '12) start to form a solid nucleus leaving them a "few players short" of competing.

BroncoStud
11-05-2011, 01:31 PM
No, but Fox is probably losing the locker room, he can not continue with an experiment that doesn't in fact give the team the best chance to win. He can not afford to do it, and what free agents will want to come here if we're not even trying to win? It would be different if he was playing like Newton, Dalton or Ponder, but it's not even close. Jimmy Clausen looks like a franchise quarterback in comparison.

No no, don't get carried away. Tebow is much better than Clausen, who is absolutely horrible. At least Tebow can make plays.

Lancane
11-05-2011, 01:34 PM
What you are saying would be much more of an issue on a team that didn't have 25 losses in the last 33 games -- didn't have 5 losses in their 7 games this season.

There are very few players/positions on this team that can be identified as not being part of the reason for all those losses.

I know you didn't forget that this team was 1-4 with Orton, before the Tebow experiment, AKA, Orton being benched for horrid play.

So, if you were taking this position on a team that's been a winning team, been making playoff runs and just coming up short, etc., I would agree wholeheartedly, but this team has been nowhere near that type of team since '08. The Broncos are in full blown rebuild mode, and they have a lot more to worry about than whether or not they will be able to sign free agents in the ''12 offseason -- especially since they will probably be as conservative in free agency next year, as this year. 2013 is the first year I would expect them to be big free agency players, assuming their young players (on team now and drafted in '12) start to form a solid nucleus leaving them a "few players short" of competing.

But your missing the point T, free agents do have options and do consider such things, granted we're bad and have been so, but they'll also weigh in on the direction the team is headed. They'll ask themselves is that team improving? Are they headed in the right direction? Are they close to being contenders? and so on. I know you may not realize it, but this whole Tebow thing and quarterback issue has placed a major red flag on the franchise. It doesn't even look like we're trying to win, if you look at the numbers between Orton and Tebow, then Orton looks at least competent - and you know how I feel about Orton...what are those outside the franchise and fan base seeing?

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...

Tned
11-05-2011, 01:39 PM
But your missing the point T, free agents do have options and do consider such things, granted we're bad and have been so, but they'll also weigh in on the direction the team is headed. They'll ask themselves is that team improving? Are they headed in the right direction? Are they close to being contenders? and so on. I know you may not realize it, but this whole Tebow thing and quarterback issue has placed a major red flag on the franchise. It doesn't even look like we're trying to win, if you look at the numbers between Orton and Tebow, then Orton looks at least competent - and you know how I feel about Orton...what are those outside the franchise and fan base seeing?

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...

Yep, agree to disagree, mostly because of where the franchise is now. This team is a long way from worrying about signing free agents. They were the second worst team in the NFL last season. A few weeks ago, they had the worst record in the NFL over the previous 31 games, and there is a pretty good chance that right now they have the worst record in the NFL over the last 33 games (haven't actually checked that).

So, while the Tebow thing might be a lightening rod for media speculation right now, it is far from the only problem with this franchise.

Lancane
11-05-2011, 01:42 PM
No no, don't get carried away. Tebow is much better than Clausen, who is absolutely horrible. At least Tebow can make plays.

Tebow is pretty F'n sorry in his own right BS! And at least Clausen could complete more then fifty percent of his passes. I'm not saying he's a great by any stretch of the imagination, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Clausen over Tebow in a heartbeat.

hamrob
11-05-2011, 02:01 PM
Tim Tebow shows plenty of promise right now!

He has started only 5 NFL GAMES. He is 2-3 with a 75 QB rating. He has thrown for 4 td's against only 1 int in those five games.

Whether you love or hate Tebow...the facts are the facts. His performance, although up and down, is not out of the ordinary for a player starting his 5th NFL game. I'm not sure if the "so-called" experts ever actually stop flapping their mouths to consider the facts.

The facts are, that Tim Tebow has performed at or above the level of many other young QB's who are not getting blasted so openly across all media outlets. I've never seen such disdain for a young QB coming out of college. This is both crazy and sad. That so many people would turn on a kid after so few starts is absolutely amazing. Wow!

Take a look at these players stats below and explain to me how Tim Tebow has performed worse than any of the group And save the mechanics and footwork argument for someone who gives a rip. Those are items that can be improved over time natuarally!

Tim Tebow
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13200/tim-tebow
Sam Bradford
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13197/sam-bradford
Blaine Gabbert
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13987/blaine-gabbert
Christian Ponder
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1...ristian-ponder
Colt McCoy
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...199/colt-mccoy
Steve Young
http://www.nfl.com/player/steveyoung...43/careerstats
John Elway
http://www.nfl.com/player/johnelway/2500547/profile
Peyton Manning
http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmann...63/careerstats

Northman
11-05-2011, 02:37 PM
Tim Tebow shows plenty of promise right now!

He has started only 5 NFL GAMES. He is 2-3 with a 75 QB rating. He has thrown for 4 td's against only 1 int in those five games.

Whether you love or hate Tebow...the facts are the facts. His performance, although up and down, is not out of the ordinary for a player starting his 5th NFL game. I'm not sure if the "so-called" experts ever actually stop flapping their mouths to consider the facts.

The facts are, that Tim Tebow has performed at or above the level of many other young QB's who are not getting blasted so openly across all media outlets. I've never seen such disdain for a young QB coming out of college. This is both crazy and sad. That so many people would turn on a kid after so few starts is absolutely amazing. Wow!

Take a look at these players stats below and explain to me how Tim Tebow has performed worse than any of the group And save the mechanics and footwork argument for someone who gives a rip. Those are items that can be improved over time natuarally!

Tim Tebow
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13200/tim-tebow
Sam Bradford
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13197/sam-bradford
Blaine Gabbert
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13987/blaine-gabbert
Christian Ponder
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1...ristian-ponder
Colt McCoy
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...199/colt-mccoy
Steve Young
http://www.nfl.com/player/steveyoung...43/careerstats
John Elway
http://www.nfl.com/player/johnelway/2500547/profile
Peyton Manning
http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmann...63/careerstats


I did this comparison over 2 months ago. :lol:

lgenf
11-05-2011, 02:51 PM
I know you may not realize it, but this whole Tebow thing and quarterback issue has placed a major red flag on the franchise. It doesn't even look like we're trying to win, if you look at the numbers between Orton and Tebow, then Orton looks at least competent ..

really?

Tebow is 1-1, Orton was 1-4

Tebow has looked bad granted, terrible even at times

Orton 7 yr vet that should look better on a terrible team

Tebow is trying to make plays, and Orton would just throw the ball away

Do we all think that Orton would have beat Miami? Maybe

Do any of us think Orton would have beat Detroit? NOPE

So I don't really think your point above about we don't even look like we are trying to win has merit considering we are exactly where we would be with Orton at QB right now

dogfish
11-05-2011, 03:03 PM
No, but Fox is probably losing the locker room, he can not continue with an experiment that doesn't in fact give the team the best chance to win. He can not afford to do it, and what free agents will want to come here if we're not even trying to win? It would be different if he was playing like Newton, Dalton or Ponder, but it's not even close. Jimmy Clausen looks like a franchise quarterback in comparison.

i agree with davii-- *** losing the locker room, **** it right in the ass with no lube. . . those clowns lost everyone else long ago. . . they need to win some damn games if they want anyone to care about their widdle feewings. . .

orton and quinn aren't going to be here next year, tebones might-- there's zero upside for orton or quinn to take another snap for us this year. . . fox needs to do what's best for the franchise, not soothe egos of vets that never win anything-- most of 'em need to get gone anyway. . . worst team in the NFL the last two years. . .

what's going to happen if we lose the locker room? are we going to lose some more games, or something? we already lose all our games-- we can't get any worse. . . if fox sees vets quitting, bench their asses and get young kids in there and see who's hungry enough to actually compete for a job. . . everybody should be auditioning for next year at this point. . . it's time to start getting MORE kids on the field, not less. . . they can light that piece of shit locker room on fire for all i care. . . . :lol:

in fact, they probably should. . . looks like purification by fire is about the only thing that's going to remove the stink of losing from that room. . .

Lancane
11-05-2011, 03:35 PM
i agree with davii-- *** losing the locker room, **** it right in the ass with no lube. . . those clowns lost everyone else long ago. . . they need to win some damn games if they want anyone to care about their widdle feewings. . .

orton and quinn aren't going to be here next year, tebones might-- there's zero upside for orton or quinn to take another snap for us this year. . . fox needs to do what's best for the franchise, not soothe egos of vets that never win anything-- most of 'em need to get gone anyway. . . worst team in the NFL the last two years. . .

what's going to happen if we lose the locker room? are we going to lose some more games, or something? we already lose all our games-- we can't get any worse. . . if fox sees vets quitting, bench their asses and get young kids in there and see who's hungry enough to actually compete for a job. . . everybody should be auditioning for next year at this point. . . it's time to start getting MORE kids on the field, not less. . . they can light that piece of shit locker room on fire for all i care. . . . :lol:

in fact, they probably should. . . looks like purification by fire is about the only thing that's going to remove the stink of losing from that room. . .

That's all great and dandy for fans to say **** em', who cares if those free agents see how we treat our own players or how we basically throw the season. Let's force their hand and have to completely rebuild with only six draft picks and a locker room that is slighted by the staff. Nevermind the fact that Denver's own players will question the organization at that point, so who cares if any don't want to re-sign with the team when their contracts are up. Here's a question, how do you build a team when you offend the players you do have and don't have the means to replace those who leave, and the way you conduct business may put off good free agents?

Sorry, but I can not agree...at one point I thought much the same way, but I never figured Tebow would be this bad either, even if he wasn't the future of the franchise, I figured the team would be upset but eventually understand that Orton didn't give them the best chance to win...I don't think anyone could imagine what a piss poor quarterback he would be. I have to agree with Shannon Sharpe and Chad Brown, the experiment has been a disaster and Elway needs to pull the plug to save face and to save the locker room for Fox.

dogfish
11-05-2011, 03:40 PM
That's all great and dandy for fans to say **** em', who cares if those free agents see how we treat our own players or how we basically throw the season. Let's force their hand and have to completely rebuild with only six draft picks and a locker room that is slighted by the staff. Nevermind the fact that Denver's own players will question the organization at that point, so who cares if any don't want to re-sign with the team when their contracts are up. Here's a question, how do you build a team when you offend the players you do have and don't have the means to replace those who leave, and the way you conduct business may put off good free agents?

Sorry, but I can not agree...at one point I thought much the same way, but I never figured Tebow would be this bad either, even if he wasn't the future of the franchise, I figured the team would be upset but eventually understand that Orton didn't give them the best chance to win...I don't think anyone could imagine what a piss poor quarterback he would be. I have to agree with Shannon Sharpe and Chad Brown, the experiment has been a disaster and Elway needs to pull the plug to save face and to save the locker room for Fox.

off the top of my head, bunkley's the only guy i'd want back anyway. . . as for players like clady who won't be FAs for another year or so, you win them back by going out next year and having a better season. . . if we win, this becomes a more attractive destination. . .


besides, what does attracting free agents matter next year anyway? you know as well as i do they won't be opening the purse strings for any decent FAs until the salary floor takes effect the following year. . .

Dreadnought
11-05-2011, 03:43 PM
i agree with davii-- *** losing the locker room, **** it right in the ass with no lube. . . those clowns lost everyone else long ago. . . they need to win some damn games if they want anyone to care about their widdle feewings. . .

orton and quinn aren't going to be here next year, tebones might-- there's zero upside for orton or quinn to take another snap for us this year. . . fox needs to do what's best for the franchise, not soothe egos of vets that never win anything-- most of 'em need to get gone anyway. . . worst team in the NFL the last two years. . .

what's going to happen if we lose the locker room? are we going to lose some more games, or something? we already lose all our games-- we can't get any worse. . . if fox sees vets quitting, bench their asses and get young kids in there and see who's hungry enough to actually compete for a job. . . everybody should be auditioning for next year at this point. . . it's time to start getting MORE kids on the field, not less. . . they can light that piece of shit locker room on fire for all i care. . . . :lol:

in fact, they probably should. . . looks like purification by fire is about the only thing that's going to remove the stink of losing from that room. . .

After 2 games one of which was a historic comeback win, he is in danger of "losing the locker room?" Sorry, that is one of the sillier theories I've seen here in a while. There is no conceivable way that this makes sense. Give him another straight half dozen losses and i would agree.

Davii
11-05-2011, 03:46 PM
Win wise? No

But, i think the general idea when playing a young QB is making sure they are progressing as the year goes along. If he doesnt improve in this game by a big margin than i can understand the coaches just saying to themselves he needs more time to sit and learn. If Tim was improving than i would say give him the rest of the year but simply putting a guy out there who isnt progressing doesnt make a lot of sense and will only frustrate fans more.



Keeping fans interested.

I can only half agree, I agree with your statement, but if you really look at the film Tim DID improve against Detroit. Unfortunately there were some dropped passes, some bad routes, etc.

He MUST show more improvement, but his passes were more on target than against Miami. We played a MUCH better team... Had we played MIA again I honestly don't think there would've been any need for a comeback.

We shall see against the Raiders. If Tim shows improvement, then he should stay. If not, maybe he needs more time to sit and learn....

BUT, putting Orton back in, or putting Quinn in does nothing to help us. Win wise, who gives a damn at this point. Free agent wise? Really?

We know for a fact KO WILL NOT be here next year. Quinn most likely won't be here. So, we're either drafting a QB in the first round and saying that Tim won't get good enough, or we're drafting one a little later to work on meaning Tim MIGHT get good enough.

Either way, either Tim is our starter next year, or someone that is not currently on this team is.

Davii
11-05-2011, 03:49 PM
That's all great and dandy for fans to say **** em', who cares if those free agents see how we treat our own players or how we basically throw the season. Let's force their hand and have to completely rebuild with only six draft picks and a locker room that is slighted by the staff. Nevermind the fact that Denver's own players will question the organization at that point, so who cares if any don't want to re-sign with the team when their contracts are up. Here's a question, how do you build a team when you offend the players you do have and don't have the means to replace those who leave, and the way you conduct business may put off good free agents?

Sorry, but I can not agree...at one point I thought much the same way, but I never figured Tebow would be this bad either, even if he wasn't the future of the franchise, I figured the team would be upset but eventually understand that Orton didn't give them the best chance to win...I don't think anyone could imagine what a piss poor quarterback he would be. I have to agree with Shannon Sharpe and Chad Brown, the experiment has been a disaster and Elway needs to pull the plug to save face and to save the locker room for Fox.

Do you really think they're not questioning the organization at this point?

Do you think there is one player in that locker room that is not thinking about how nice it might be to play elsewhere right now?

We're the worst team in the NFL the last two years.

Lancane
11-05-2011, 04:09 PM
off the top of my head, bunkley's the only guy i'd want back anyway. . . as for players like clady who won't be FAs for another year or so, you win them back by going out next year and having a better season. . . if we win, this becomes a more attractive destination. . .

besides, what does attracting free agents matter next year anyway? you know as well as i do they won't be opening the purse strings for any decent FAs until the salary floor takes effect the following year. . .

Well I guess you have it all figured out, except for one small issue, Denver has a lot of needs, and the list of free agents will put a bit of a damper on that train of thought: Spencer Larson, Eddie Royal, Matt Willis (Restricted), Lance Ball (Exlusive), Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Russ Hochstein, Daniel Fells, Chris Clark (Exclusive), Derrick Harvey, Jason Hunter, Marcus Thomas, Brodrick Bunkley, Ryan McBean (Restricted), Mario Haggan, Joe Mays and Wesley Woodyard.

And while that list is not full of impressive talent, the problem is that they still have to be replaced, where does that come from? Or are you hoping that Denver decides to do a Minnesota or Indianapolis and sign an unusual number of undrafted free agents? Especially considering that's our offensive line and defensive line depth, not to mention one starter, most of our linebacker depth, a decent tight end, our starting fullback, middle linebacker and number two receiver.

And the few who are restricted or Denver has exclusive rights to aren't really worth a damn anyways. Not like I would wake up in a cold sweat should we lose most of them, but hard to build a team when you have to improve in areas but lose others making them an even greater need.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this bro! ;)

Lancane
11-05-2011, 04:14 PM
After 2 games one of which was a historic comeback win, he is in danger of "losing the locker room?" Sorry, that is one of the sillier theories I've seen here in a while. There is no conceivable way that this makes sense. Give him another straight half dozen losses and i would agree.

He can't even throw the F'n ball well Dread, do you really think the locker room is thinking he gives them the best chance to win, even the head coach seems to be wondering about that if you ask me. Believe what you want, but Davii was right about one thing, what makes us believe they haven't lost the locker room already? They'll have to earn it back somehow and playing a kid who doesn't even seem able to hit open receivers with a catchable ball is not the best way to do that IMHO.

dogfish
11-05-2011, 04:32 PM
Well I guess you have it all figured out, except for one small issue, Denver has a lot of needs, and the list of free agents will put a bit of a damper on that train of thought: Spencer Larson, Eddie Royal, Matt Willis (Restricted), Lance Ball (Exlusive), Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Russ Hochstein, Daniel Fells, Chris Clark (Exclusive), Derrick Harvey, Jason Hunter, Marcus Thomas, Brodrick Bunkley, Ryan McBean (Restricted), Mario Haggan, Joe Mays and Wesley Woodyard.

And while that list is not full of impressive talent, the problem is that they still have to be replaced, where does that come from? Or are you hoping that Denver decides to do a Minnesota or Indianapolis and sign an unusual number of undrafted free agents? Especially considering that's our offensive line and defensive line depth, not to mention one starter, most of our linebacker depth, a decent tight end, our starting fullback, middle linebacker and number two receiver.

And the few who are restricted or Denver has exclusive rights to aren't really worth a damn anyways. Not like I would wake up in a cold sweat should we lose most of them, but hard to build a team when you have to improve in areas but lose others making them an even greater need.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this bro! ;)

we will. . . :beer:

there's not more than a name or two on that list i'd want back. . . we've been complaining about guys like spencer larsen and ryan mcbean for years, i hope they do leave. . .

we need to draft better, or it won't matter anyway. . .

*shrugs*

Lancane
11-05-2011, 04:45 PM
we will. . . :beer:

there's not more than a name or two on that list i'd want back. . . we've been complaining about guys like spencer larsen and ryan mcbean for years, i hope they do leave. . .

we need to draft better, or it won't matter anyway. . .

*shrugs*

Like I said, I wouldn't lose sweat over losing some of those on that list, what is an issue is that several of our starters no matter how good or bad, such as Larsen, Royal, Bunkley, Mays and Thomas are on it, as well as a pretty good chunk of our depth, add in that we have only six draft picks...then we have to utilize free agency. And we need to replace some with better players to actually improve as a team in whole, but that is hard to do if people don't want to sign with the team because they may feel it's not headed in the right direction or feel the staff is clueless. Not to mention it's a safe bet that we're using a high draft pick on a quarterback, so we will still have a lot of holes and five picks to do it with besides?

I think you'd agree that the team is more important then any one player, shouldn't that concept be extended to include Tebow as well?

The one name I would like to see Denver re-sign is Bunkley, out of everyone else on that list he is the one I would like to see return.

BroncoStud
11-05-2011, 09:38 PM
Right now I'm all for drafting Kalil and moving Franklin to where he belongs, at Guard. That would give us a damn nice offensive line. If Tebow shows ANYTHING in the next few games I hope that is what we do. Pick up a guy like Weedon or Keenum a bit later on...

Ziggy
11-05-2011, 09:45 PM
Well I guess you have it all figured out, except for one small issue, Denver has a lot of needs, and the list of free agents will put a bit of a damper on that train of thought: Spencer Larson, Eddie Royal, Matt Willis (Restricted), Lance Ball (Exlusive), Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Russ Hochstein, Daniel Fells, Chris Clark (Exclusive), Derrick Harvey, Jason Hunter, Marcus Thomas, Brodrick Bunkley, Ryan McBean (Restricted), Mario Haggan, Joe Mays and Wesley Woodyard.



Sign Bunkley and Fells and let the rest go. Hunter and Thomas would be a decent options if they will sign for backup money, but other than that the Broncos aren't losing much at all.

Ziggy
11-05-2011, 09:49 PM
I don't know that Brady Quinn is even in the conversation for starting regardless of what Tebow does. He was inactive last week against Detroit.

dogfish
11-05-2011, 09:52 PM
Sign Bunkley and Fells and let the rest go. Hunter and Thomas would be a decent options if they will sign for backup money, but other than that the Broncos aren't losing much at all.

besides bunkley, most of the guys on that list would be street free agents if they weren't playing here. . . if we're worried that we can't replace chris clark and derrick harvey, we may as well just fold up shop right now. . .

Ziggy
11-05-2011, 09:52 PM
Right now I'm all for drafting Kalil and moving Franklin to where he belongs, at Guard. That would give us a damn nice offensive line. If Tebow shows ANYTHING in the next few games I hope that is what we do. Pick up a guy like Weedon or Keenum a bit later on...

Good post. The call for moving Franklin to LG has been going on all season on this forum. While Beadles is horrendous, JD Walton has made some very nice progress. Kalil would be a great pick, especially with Clady not having returned to form since the injury. If the Broncos can't re-sign Clady after next season, you can move Kalil to LT.

Tned
11-05-2011, 09:52 PM
I don't know that Brady Quinn is even in the conversation for starting regardless of what Tebow does. He was inactive last week against Detroit.

It's because they needed extra WR's.

Ziggy
11-05-2011, 10:08 PM
It's because they needed extra WR's.

Then why not de-activate Orton if Quinn is the next man up?

Dreadnought
11-05-2011, 10:11 PM
Sign Bunkley and Fells and let the rest go. Hunter and Thomas would be a decent options if they will sign for backup money, but other than that the Broncos aren't losing much at all.

Resign Mays and Woodyard as well, so long as the money is reasonable. Those guys are OK in one role or another

Tned
11-05-2011, 10:13 PM
Then why not de-activate Orton if Quinn is the next man up?

Pretty obviously Orton is the best backup if Tebow was to get hurt in game. That doesn't mean that if they want to evaluate someone else for remaining games at some point this season that they wouldn't deactivate Tebow and start Quinn.

Bottom line, you can't read into who the next starter would be based on those two deactivations.

hamrob
11-05-2011, 11:24 PM
Here's the ironic thing about the AFC WEST:

I like our chances against the Raiders!

It won't be easy. The Raiders are coming off their Bye week and should be well rested and ready!

The keys to the Game:

We need to stuff the run and stop Michael Bush from having a 100yd day.
We need to turn the dogs lose and pressure Palmer...blitz him often
Tebow needs to be smart with the football...no TO's for TD's
Tebow needs to improve
Tebow needs to help the run game
McCoy needs to do a better job calling plays that Tebow is ready to execute

In my opinion this is all doable...and playing on the road should take some pressure off of Tebow (IMO). I think we have a good chance to win this game.

If we win the next 2-weeks....guess what...we will be right in the mix. It can be done. It's really not all that hard to believe.

bcbronc
11-06-2011, 05:16 AM
Tim Tebow shows plenty of promise right now!

He has started only 5 NFL GAMES. He is 2-3 with a 75 QB rating. He has thrown for 4 td's against only 1 int in those five games.

Whether you love or hate Tebow...the facts are the facts. His performance, although up and down, is not out of the ordinary for a player starting his 5th NFL game. I'm not sure if the "so-called" experts ever actually stop flapping their mouths to consider the facts.

The facts are, that Tim Tebow has performed at or above the level of many other young QB's who are not getting blasted so openly across all media outlets. I've never seen such disdain for a young QB coming out of college. This is both crazy and sad. That so many people would turn on a kid after so few starts is absolutely amazing. Wow!

Take a look at these players stats below and explain to me how Tim Tebow has performed worse than any of the group And save the mechanics and footwork argument for someone who gives a rip. Those are items that can be improved over time natuarally!

Tim Tebow
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13200/tim-tebow
Sam Bradford
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13197/sam-bradford
Blaine Gabbert
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13987/blaine-gabbert
Christian Ponder
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1...ristian-ponder
Colt McCoy
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...199/colt-mccoy
Steve Young
http://www.nfl.com/player/steveyoung...43/careerstats
John Elway
http://www.nfl.com/player/johnelway/2500547/profile
Peyton Manning
http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmann...63/careerstats

1. your links don't go anywhere.

2. Quantitative data only tells part of the Tebow story. Try using some qualitative analysis on Manning in his first two years compared to Tebow's first two seasons, and see what your conclusion is.

As for 4 TDs to 1 INT...pretty tough to throw picks when your passes don't come down in the field of play. ;)


Then why not de-activate Orton if Quinn is the next man up?

Orton is a captain. Who would call the coin toss??

dogfish
11-06-2011, 05:43 AM
Orton is a captain. Who would call the coin toss??

possibly the best thing you've ever posted. . .


:rofl:

HORSEPOWER 56
11-06-2011, 09:49 AM
Win wise? No

But, i think the general idea when playing a young QB is making sure they are progressing as the year goes along. If he doesnt improve in this game by a big margin than i can understand the coaches just saying to themselves he needs more time to sit and learn. If Tim was improving than i would say give him the rest of the year but simply putting a guy out there who isnt progressing doesnt make a lot of sense and will only frustrate fans more.



Keeping fans interested.

Only the fans who have some unrealistic expectation of the playoffs, I think. Fans want to see wins, but we just aren't in a position, no matter who the QB is, to provide them on a consistent basis. I'm still one of the guys that is totally cool with letting Tebow get the crap kicked out of him week after week until he either proves he can do it or proves he can't and we can move on.

I wouldn't mind seeing what Quinn has to offer, which I suspect isn't much, if there wasn't a 3rd round pick hanging in the balance. If we play Quinn just to try to mix it up with no real intentions of keeping him and then lose a 3rd round pick over it, I'll break something...

hamrob
11-06-2011, 11:59 AM
1. your links don't go anywhere.

2. Quantitative data only tells part of the Tebow story. Try using some qualitative analysis on Manning in his first two years compared to Tebow's first two seasons, and see what your conclusion is.

As for 4 TDs to 1 INT...pretty tough to throw picks when your passes don't come down in the field of play. ;)



Orton is a captain. Who would call the coin toss??

1. The links do work. It must be your system.

2. Are you in school going through a stats class right now?? Who the hell cares about quantitative vs. qualitative analysis! Tebow has played just as well as most young QB's in their first 5 games. If you can't accept my commentary...go read Woody Paige's article today at the Denver Post.

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19274728

3. His completion percentage is also on par with most other young qb's in their first 5-10 games.

bcbronc
11-06-2011, 02:54 PM
1. The links do work. It must be your system.

They don't open the page I expect you wanted them to, but it's not overly important.


2. Are you in school going through a stats class right now?? Who the hell cares about quantitative vs. qualitative analysis! Tebow has played just as well as most young QB's in their first 5 games. If you can't accept my commentary...go read Woody Paige's article today at the Denver Post.

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19274728

nope, not in school. But there's certainly a difference when Christian Ponder throws a typical incompletion (something almost catchable) and when Tebow misses a wide open receiver by 10 yards. In other words, not all incompletions are equal, despite what the stats say.

There's also other qualitative elements like poise in the pocket, making progressions, footwork and pre and post snap reads that don't necessarily show up in the black and white world of stats.

End of the day, you're completely off base if you think most young QBs throw the ball like Tebow has so far in his career.


3. His completion percentage is also on par with most other young qb's in their first 5-10 games.

Is it?

First, you're ignoring that guys like Elway, Bradford and Manning played their first five games in their first five games in the league. Tebow had time on the bench and an offseason before he got his first five starts in. Comparing what Tebow is doing right now to what any rookie did makes no sense simply because Tebow isn't a rookie.

I'm not going to put the effort into trying to find the stats from some of the guys you mentioned first five games, but a bit more generally:

Tebow: career completion % (5 starts): 48.1

Manning's rookie season: 56.7

Ponder's first three games: 51.9 BUT his most recent game his most recent start he was over 64% (has Tebow had a regular season game over 60% yet?) and his other two starts were in Chicago and vs GB (and that 13 for 32 game really skews his stats at this point).

Bradford: rookie season 60%, career 58.3. And Bradford makes throws Tebow couldn't make playing Madden.

McCoy: rookie season (8 games) 60.8, career (15 games) 58.7.

Gabbert: 45.7 after 6 starts. Have you seen any of Gabbert's play? He's been terrible, throwing off his back foot, ducking and hiding at any pressure and just flinging the ball away. I'm not really sure why you think it supports your argument that Tebow is putting up numbers like Gabbert, cuz if Gabbert "improves" as much as Tebow in his first offseason, he'll be out of the league by the end of his rookie contract.

I'm not going to bother looking at Steve Young or John Elway...completely different eras where 60% was elite, while today 60% is pretty much the bare minimum.