Elway At Stanford Practice - Scouting Luck

[Shazam!]

Wow.


NFL scouts and football folks frequently troll the sidelines of college football practices.

But of course, John Elway is no normal football executive, and when he’s seen at the college practice of the projected No. 1 pick in next year’s draft, well, that becomes news.

FULL ARTCLE -

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/02/elway-spotted-at-stanford-practice/10541/

I'm all for Tim, BUT if Denver can acquire Luck...

[DenBronx]

I know Elway has a woody for Luck but it's not going to happen.

There are about 5 teams worse than us and I dont see the Colts or Mia winning a game all year unless the play each other.

I think as much as Elway wants Luck the other teams are going to want him more. We would have to give at least TWO 1st and TWO 2nds and that's just to climb up a few spots.

Now imagine if TT wins a few more games this year. We would have to trade our drafts for 2 years for one guy. Has any team in the NFL ever done that? I know the Saints traded the whole draft but TWO years? No.

And what if Luck isnt any better than Bradford? I highly doubt Luck will be a bust but what if he isn't a Manning, Brady or Rogers? Is all of that really worth one player when the team has so many needs?

[TXBRONC]

Wow.



I'm all for Tim, BUT if Denver can acquire Luck...

Yeah CJ and Kreckman on The Ticket mentioned that Elway was at Stanford's practice today. Unless the Dolphins and Colts go on winning binges there very little hope that Denver can get Luck.

[TXBRONC]

I know Elway has a woody for Luck but it's not going to happen.

There are about 5 teams worse than us and I dont see the Colts or Mia winning a game all year unless the play each other.

I think as much as Elway wants Luck the other teams are going to want him more. We would have to give at least TWO 1st and TWO 2nds and that's just to climb up a few spots.

Now imagine if TT wins a few more games this year. We would have to trade our drafts for 2 years for one guy. Has any team in the NFL ever done that? I know the Saints traded the whole draft but TWO years? No.

And what if Luck isnt any better than Bradford? I highly doubt Luck will be a bust but what if he isn't a Manning, Brady or Rogers? Is all of that really worth one player when the team has so many needs?

Denver might be able to get Luck if the Rams end up with number one overall pick.

[DenBronx]

Denver might be able to get Luck if the Rams end up with number one overall pick.

It will go to the highest bidder of course.

But again, is it worth two years of drafts?


Would the Rams just want to keep Luck and ship Bradford for cheaper? We could package Tebow to get reunited with McD and the Rams would then just keep Luck as their future. :laugh:

I think Mia or Was would be willing to give up more.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't think Rams end up with the first pick. They are going to win a few more games, especially if they continue playing the way they did against NO. They play in such a poor division they are bound to get a few wins from those teams.

I think Miami is the team you have to worry about. They would have to win 3 games and Denver would have to lose out. I am hoping Elway puts more time into Barkley and Jones.

[Dzone]

Tebow is going to have to spoil the draft Luck party by playing like a real quarterback and winning some games

[DenBronx]

Tebow is going to have to spoil the draft Luck party by playing like a real quarterback and winning some games

I think that's exactlly what's going to happen. I have a hard time believing Tebow wont get better if he gets playing time. Like I said in another thread, TT will buy him alot of time if he beats Oakland. No way we lose out the rest of the year.

[lgenf]

We r going to beat Oakland this week so that is another win for us

[dogfish]

Tebow is going to have to spoil the draft Luck party by playing like a real quarterback and winning some games

probably won't be necessary. . .


seriously, anybody take a look at miami's and indy's schedules, and tell me which two (let alone three) games either of those teams is going to win. . .


john's going to have to get over it. . .

not that i'm saying he shouldn't do his due diligence, but the odds are luck is simply going to be out of reach, just like harbaugh was. . .

[dogfish]

We r going to beat Oakland this week so that is another win for us

okay, thanks. . .


:welcome:

[BeefStew25]

We r going to beat Oakland this week so that is another win for us

Let's make a wager on it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Possibly need to consider that Elway more than likely knows everything he needs to know about Luck - and he and Xanders could be there looking at some other players.

[Ravage!!!]

YEs.. its worth 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

[Ravage!!!]

We r going to beat Oakland this week so that is another win for us

You said the same thing about Detroit. You PROMISED we would win. How far off do you have to be? I guess if you just keep saying "we will win".. you will eventually be right.

[TXBRONC]

Possibly need to consider that Elway more than likely knows everything he needs to know about Luck - and he and Xanders could be there looking at some other players.

I doubt it Carol.

[DenBronx]

Possibly need to consider that Elway more than likely knows everything he needs to know about Luck - and he and Xanders could be there looking at some other players.

lol Yeah right. have you seen Elway fly in to any other State and watch any other college?

Elway hasnt become some overnight scout and is watching the whole Stanford team. I would bet the ranch that he is there watching Luck only.

[Ravage!!!]

He is a Stanford alumni, after all.

[NameUsedBefore]

Hey, does anyone remember how Denver ended up getting John Elway?


http://i.imgur.com/DvqeO.jpg


Does anybody want a soda?

[dogfish]

YEs.. its worth 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

coach chaz hates you right now. . . . :laugh:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This guy is a sportswriter for the Associated Press in the San Francisco Bay Area


agonzalezAP Antonio Gonzalez
Interesting note folks at #Stanford pointed out: There were 3 Heisman runner-ups on practice field today. Elway, Gerhart, Luck.
31 minutes ago

agonzalezAP Antonio Gonzalez
Toby Gerhart also was at practice. He spoke to team Tuesday, Shaw said. Other alumni also around.
1 hour ago

agonzalezAP Antonio Gonzalez
#Stanford coach David Shaw says Elway spoke to team about how proud he was of them and to keep pushing for more.
1 hour ago

http://twitter.com/#!/agonzalezAP

[Lancane]

I doubt it Carol.

Don't doubt too quickly, even though I have a hard time struggling with the idea that it wasn't to scout Luck, this is not the first time since the beginning of the season that he's visited Stanford. They do have a pretty good class entering the draft all things considered. Maybe he was there to scout David Shaw or Pep Hamilton to be the next offensive coordinator or quarterback coach here in Denver? Or maybe he went and watched Luck and is comparing what he's seen from the other prospects, measuring them up against Luck to see who he likes best? Hell, he could have been there because Luck wanted to talk to him about pressures or whatnot?

Could be a hundred reasons...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Toby Gerhart was there - he plays for the Vikings. Might be something to do with alumni being there?????

[BroncoStud]

YEs.. its worth 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

Yes it is. I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

[DenBronx]

Hey, does anyone remember how Denver ended up getting John Elway?

Does anybody want a soda?


Eli Manning did the same thing. Luck would have to do that in order for a trade to happen if a team like Mia or Ind wanted him.

And Elway would have to promise the world to Luck for him to even want to come here. Not sure how much pull Elway has with Luck either.

He had zero pull in getting Harbaugh, we didnt even get an interview. Elways an alumni yeah but not sure how far that will get him in regards to getting Luck.

Would the trade be swapping 2012 1st AND two 1st? We basically just lose 2013 and 2014 picks.

[MOtorboat]

We r going to beat Oakland this week so that is another win for us

are. are. are. are.

As far as Elway being at Stanford...alumni who happens to want their starting quarterback for his team like every other team desperate for a quarterback. I find it more likely that Elway went back to be an alumnus at an alumni event at the request of a coach, oh, and Denver is playing a half hour up the road. I'm pretty sure we all know where he stands on Luck and doesn't really need to "scout" him.

[NameUsedBefore]

Would the trade be swapping 2012 1st AND two 1st? We basically just lose 2013 and 2014 picks.

I'm thinking players and a lot more picks than just firsts.

[DenBronx]

Elway is stalking Luck.

[DenBronx]

I'm thinking players and a lot more picks than just firsts.

Swap 1st, 2013 1st, TT, Moreno and 2014 2nd to Miami.


Florida fans would go apeshit to get TT. I'm sure they think we have set him up to fail. :rolleyes:

[weazel]

Wow.



I'm all for Tim, BUT if Denver can acquire Luck...


We have no shot at Luck...

[weazel]

Swap 1st, 2013 1st, TT, Moreno and 2014 2nd to Miami.


Florida fans would go apeshit to get TT. I'm sure they think we have set him up to fail. :rolleyes:

if Miami made that trade the NFL would take away their franchise...

[FanInAZ]

Here's a totally crazy thought that just came to my mind:

1) Luck isn't the only Stanford player that will declare themselves eligible for the 2012 draft.
2) We have more holes in our roster then a screen door.

Conclusion: Elway might be their scouting for positions other than QB.

[DenBronx]

I wonder when Elway is having sex with his raiderette wife if he is thinking about Luck?

Elway: Lucky meeeeee lucky meeeeee
Wifey: *moan* wha what babe??

[nflfan]

Mike Greenberg, of ESPN's Mike and MIke, makes an interesting point about Andrew Luck.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7181380

He notes Luck's arm strength, which isn't great, and that because he's so NFL ready, he may not have a lot of upside. He mentions examples like Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen. I would add Leinart to that list of supposed NFL ready QBs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ-a-N9Y5mc

Luck's strength is obviously his decision making, how quickly he surveys the field and processes information, and how his motions are always deliberate and rarely rushed. He also has great anticipation and accuracy, which more than makes up for not having a fast ball. Well ... his throws on video just look slow, and I'm not talking about the ones in slomo.

I agree with Greenberg that Luck doesn't have a lot of upside. What you see is what you get, but what you do see is very, very good.

I'd say drafting Luck is like getting Phillip Rivers (not this season's Phillip Rivers), but with more scrambling ability, so he's definitely worth a #1.

My opinion, don't expect an Elway ... he's more a crafty Montana type, with scrambling ability.

[jhildebrand]

I think Mia or Was would be willing to give up more.

I don't think Washington has anything to give.

[dogfish]

Mike Greenberg, of ESPN's Mike and MIke, makes an interesting point about Andrew Luck.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7181380

He notes Luck's arm strength, which isn't great, and that because he's so NFL ready, he may not have a lot of upside. He mentions examples like Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen. I would add Leinart to that list of supposed NFL ready QBs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ-a-N9Y5mc

Luck's strength is obviously his decision making, how quickly he surveys the field and processes information, and how his motions are always deliberate and rarely rushed. He also has great anticipation and accuracy, which more than makes up for not having a fast ball. Well ... his throws on video just look slow, and I'm not talking about the ones in slomo.

I agree with Greenberg that Luck doesn't have a lot of upside. What you see is what you get, but what you do see is very, very good.

I'd say drafting Luck is like getting Phillip Rivers (not this season's Phillip Rivers), but with more scrambling ability, so he's definitely worth a #1.

My opinion, don't expect an Elway ... he's more a crafty Montana type, with scrambling ability.

no offense, but that's ridiculous. . . QB upside isn't all determined by arm strength. . . if it were, joe montana wouldn't be one of the two or three best quarterbacks of all time. . .

frankly, tom brady hardly has a cannon either. . .

[jhildebrand]

I remember a guy who said his arm "is stronger than Elway's!"

I am ok with a QB this time around who is a bit more cerebral over "ummmm you know ummmm well you know ummmm."

[DenBronx]

Not sure about giving up so much for an unproven QB.

I can see giving up what Chicago did for Cutler because Cutler was proven in the NFL but not sure about someone who has never played a down in the NFL.

[nflfan]

no offense, but that's ridiculous. . . QB upside isn't all determined by arm strength. . . if it were, joe montana wouldn't be one of the two or three best quarterbacks of all time. . .

frankly, tom brady hardly has a cannon either. . .

None taken. Let me clarify my statement.

A lot of QBs who don't rely on some superhuman physical skills develop the other aspects of their game to a very high level, and because of that and their excellence in execution, a lot of scouts call them pro ready.

A lot of times, pro ready QBs have reached close to their mental and skills ceiling in order to excel over more physically gifted QBs, so that when they reach the NFL, what you see is close to what you'll get.

Take a Matt Ryan. I consider him one of the best QBs in the league, but he's pretty much close to his upside. You take a guy like Cam, with all his physical skills ... he's that good, but mentally, he's still has a lot to learn, so he still has a lot of upside.

Again, in my post, I said that Luck is like getting Phillip Rivers; that should be more than enough for most teams, including the Broncos.

Montana never had the upside of Elway, but he's still probably the greates QB ever. I'm not discarding that that can't happen with Luck.

[NameUsedBefore]

Philip Rivers has as much velocity throwing the football as I do and he has made it in the NFL.

What nags me about Luck is the same thing that nags me about most college QBs coming out of great teams: Lack of adversity. Guy has hardly even been touched this year in the pocket and most defenses in that conference are laughable. I think he's the best QB of the draft by a very long shot, but I don't buy the sure-thing view of him. I'm interested to see how he does on a team that can't passblock for shit.

[BroncoBJ]

Is this the 1st year Elway has ever attended any Stanford games/ Practices? :confused:

[Lancane]

Is this the 1st year Elway has ever attended any Stanford games/ Practices? :confused:

No, he attended others last year as well.

[FanInAZ]

Philip Rivers has as much velocity throwing the football as I do and he has made it in the NFL.

What nags me about Luck is the same thing that nags me about most college QBs coming out of great teams: Lack of adversity. Guy has hardly even been touched this year in the pocket and most defenses in that conference are laughable. I think he's the best QB of the draft by a very long shot, but I don't buy the sure-thing view of him. I'm interested to see how he does on a team that can't passblock for shit.

This is why I'm not in favor of drafting QBs from "stacked deck" universities (USC, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.). When you combine the reputation that these schools have with the PT Barnums that many of them hire as HCs, they get the pick of the litter amongst high school recruits year after year. As a result, you have teams that are so loaded with pure athletic ability that their head coaches don't even have to both teaching them the basic fundamental of playing their position. Their great stats have more to do with the fact that half of their opponents have no business being on the same field as them then their ability to play their position.

This is why I wasn't in favor of us drafting Tebow in the 1st place. However, we did draft him, and so I as a loyal Broncos fan will give him every opportunity to prove that he's the exception to the rule. So far, he's fallen way short. As far as Luck, Stanford’s deck isn’t nearly as stacked as Florida, but its much easier for any PAC 12 school to recruit football stars then schools from the WAC, Mountain West, Big Sky, Conference USA, etc.

[SR]

Denver will not draft Andrew Luck. They will draft Barkley if he is still available when they pick.

[nflfan]

Philip Rivers has as much velocity throwing the football as I do and he has made it in the NFL.

What nags me about Luck is the same thing that nags me about most college QBs coming out of great teams: Lack of adversity. Guy has hardly even been touched this year in the pocket and most defenses in that conference are laughable. I think he's the best QB of the draft by a very long shot, but I don't buy the sure-thing view of him. I'm interested to see how he does on a team that can't passblock for shit.

Agree. Moreno also looked great college with a solid OL.

As long as Luck's arm strength isn't as weak as Leinart's or Pennington's, it shouldn't limit him.

He showed a lot of poise, toughness, and leadership in the USC game. He also showed that he has a great strategic football mind, as his playcalling during different situations in the game was excellent.

[rcsodak]

Yes it is. I would do that deal in a heartbeat.
thank gawd neither of you are anybodies, then. :lol:

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[rcsodak]

no offense, but that's ridiculous. . . QB upside isn't all determined by arm strength. . . if it were, joe montana wouldn't be one of the two or three best quarterbacks of all time. . .

frankly, tom brady hardly has a cannon either. . .

No, but he can throw a laser into tight coverage for a completion.
Luck?
PSimms doesnt think so. He went on record this week on Sirius NFL that hes not as impressed with Lucks arm as everybody else.
:shrugs:

All i know, is put some scruffy hair on his head and he'd look like a caveman. Fuuuuuugggly.

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[Dirk]

Maybe Elway was scouting Jonathan Martin and/or David DeCastro. Lord knows we need some more talent on our OL.

[claymore]

It will go to the highest bidder of course.

But again, is it worth two years of drafts?


Would the Rams just want to keep Luck and ship Bradford for cheaper? We could package Tebow to get reunited with McD and the Rams would then just keep Luck as their future. :laugh:

I think Mia or Was would be willing to give up more.

Yes it is. Id rather draft quality every other year vs scrubs every year. We wasted how many #1 picks over the past 3 years?

Von Miller is the only real dude out of 6 #1 picks in 3 years. Id trade all of those picks for a bad ass QB.

[claymore]

I'm thinking players and a lot more picks than just firsts.

Maybe we could finally get something out of the Champ Bailey trade. :werd:

[TXBRONC]

Don't doubt too quickly, even though I have a hard time struggling with the idea that it wasn't to scout Luck, this is not the first time since the beginning of the season that he's visited Stanford. They do have a pretty good class entering the draft all things considered. Maybe he was there to scout David Shaw or Pep Hamilton to be the next offensive coordinator or quarterback coach here in Denver? Or maybe he went and watched Luck and is comparing what he's seen from the other prospects, measuring them up against Luck to see who he likes best? Hell, he could have been there because Luck wanted to talk to him about pressures or whatnot?

Could be a hundred reasons...

Sure he could have been laying an eyeball on some other prospects but I just don't think that's why he was there.

[6458bird]

So I am trying to wrap my brain around this QB situation and I am left scratching my head. Admittedly I am a Gator who loves Tebow and is now a Broncos fan because of Tebow. I don't know if he has what it takes to become an NFL QB, but I am certainly rooting for him...but I am also trying to look at this objectively.

I get it that Elway/Fox did not draft Tebow (and may not have ever done so had they been in charge). That doesn't change the fact that the ORGANIZATION that Elway is now in charge of DID draft him in the first round and gave up picks to get him. So, as a business person I wonder how can you NOT try to make the most of that investment? Especially if the investment is a fan favorite, in general a good character guy, who wants to work hard and learn? Yet there's never been a "warm and fuzzy" amount of support that has come from Elway or Fox for Tebow.

I didn't think Tebow was ready to start this season, especially with the lockout. I have always hoped he could sit and learn under someone else for a while and work on what he needed to work on before starting. That's what I figured would happen...Orton would be the starter and Tebow would continue to be on the bench, maybe they would use him like they did last season in specific situations. I cringed when I heard the fans clamoring for him to start because I really believe he was not ready.

The Broncos management though, in attempting to trade Orton, opened a can of worms. As soon as people heard that, they thought it was Tebow Time. He was and still is the only QB under contract for next season right? Did Elway/Fox think it was Tebow time? If so, what were they seeing then that they soon after stopped seeing (see next paragraph). They should have kept the trade discussions under wraps until it was definite Miami was taking him or not tried to trade Orton at all.

Trade falls through, then we hear all this chatter about Tebow being the 4th QB on the depth chart? How did we go from Tebow time to him being the worst QB they have? Is he that bad? If so, why would you have even THOUGHT he could be the starter when you offered Orton up for trade? Sounds like they didn't do their homework. Or more likely they have handled this whole situation horribly...and continue to do so (see next paragraph).

Orton starts, team goes 1-4, Tebow gets his chance. Do I think he's any more prepared than he was this summer? NO. Orton most likely isn't mentoring him, have no idea who is exactly working on the Tebow Project (all agreed that he was a project coming out of college, so one would think there would be someone working on that project). Fox and Elway still seem to show little support or belief in Tebow. Lukewarm sound bites to the media at best. I think of Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy, and how they have the support of their teams and even further, someone who is mentoring and working with them. All of them may be more talented, more NFL ready, etc, I get that. But they at least go out there knowing the coach has their back and wants them to succeed. I don't get that feeling from the Broncos as far as Tebow goes. Sidebar - Alex Smith is a perfect example of how much coaching and mentoring can make a difference. John Harbaugh goes to SF, and suddenly Alex Smith is playing well for the first time in his career, after he was considered a bust by almost everyone.

Tebow is struggling, 3Qs of the Miami game and all of the Detroit game were awful. Again, little to no support from anyone in the Broncos organization. He's' being trashed on every sports talk show 24/7. John Elway is one of the best QBs to play the game. Why do we never see him working with Tebow? Again, if he thinks Tebow stinks that's fine. But just turn your back on him? Really? Is that what's best for the organization? And then to add insult to injury, he is seen at Stanford scouting Luck...fueling more drama.

Why not help him as much as possible so he can get better and you can trade him to someone, and at least so you can say you TRIED. Wouldn't it be better for the season to end with everyone saying that "they gave it their best shot, the kid just doesn't have what it takes, he was mentored by Elway and he still couldn't get it together, so there you go fans, we tried the Tebow Experiment. Now we must draft a QB for the future."

I believed early in the season when Orton was moving the ball but having issues in the Red Zone that they should employ the type of dual QB situation Florida ran when Tebow was a freshman and they won a national championship (Chris Leak played most of the time but Tebow put in when it made sense). That would have made the fans happy, gotten Tebow some experience, made good use of Orton, and we may have won some games. McDaniels did some of this last year, but it could have been exploited further this season.

Now the whole thing is a debacle...bad business decisions...bad handling of fans and players...bad all around.

I have to say I have lost respect for the powers that be. Orton treated like crap. Tebow not getting support and even getting disrespected by this recent visit to Stanford. Other players in the locker room probably extremely frustrated with things.

I think if Elway wants Luck he'll do anything he can to get him...

[CoachChaz]

Philip Rivers has as much velocity throwing the football as I do and he has made it in the NFL.

What nags me about Luck is the same thing that nags me about most college QBs coming out of great teams: Lack of adversity. Guy has hardly even been touched this year in the pocket and most defenses in that conference are laughable. I think he's the best QB of the draft by a very long shot, but I don't buy the sure-thing view of him. I'm interested to see how he does on a team that can't passblock for shit.

If you watch when Stanford runs play action pass...you'll kind of get your wish. Whenever they run that, Luck immediately looks panicked and if there is a resemblence of a pass rush...he'll tuck and run instead of stepping up in the pocket or scrambling. However...when he scrambles...he has a propensity to throw all arm, doesnt get his feet set and his accuracy drops significantly.

Unfortunately...most people only pay attention to his stats and the plays that work well. No doubt he has talent and skill and is the top QB...but he's not light years above the rest.

[Ravage!!!]

Most of the scouts don't pay attention to the stats. I dont' pay attention to the stats, and its absolutely funny that people say he panics when all week they ahve been talking about how well Luck handled the INT near the end of the game. How he brushed it off, came back in, and led a fantastic drive.

Herm Edwards lives in the area and watches every game of Stanfords. Can't say ENOUGH posititive things about this QB. Says taht from a coaches standpoint, you can't believe how well he processes information, how calm he remains, and how well he doesn't let things get into his head.

[Cugel]

It will go to the highest bidder of course.

But again, is it worth two years of drafts?

Would the Rams just want to keep Luck and ship Bradford for cheaper? We could package Tebow to get reunited with McD and the Rams would then just keep Luck as their future. :laugh:

I think Mia or Was would be willing to give up more.

Any team that has the chance to draft Luck is going to take him.

If you had Sam Bradford and Peyton Manning was in the draft would you trade him and get Manning? Obviously.

So, why wouldn't the Rams take Luck if they agree with all the experts who think Luck is the next Peyton Manning or Elway -- the best QB prospect of the last 25 years and a sure fire All-Pro, potential Hall of Famer? Because of the new CBA he would cost them about $25-30 million less than they are paying Bradford.

You can't take the chance as a GM that Luck is the next Elway and Bradford is just a good NFL QB who never wins a championship. That would be like being the Supersonics GM who took Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan. :ranger:

In any case, it's tough to see the Rams getting Luck now that they have a win.

The problem for the Broncos is that they have 2 wins. Not only aren't they getting Luck they aren't even getting Barkley either. They might get the 3rd or 4th best QB. They might not even have a top five pick if Tebow screws them over and wins a game or two.

Fortunately that's not looking too likely, but this season there are SO MANY lousy teams that the Broncos Chances aren't that great.

BTW: There's a whole thread devoted to handicapping the Luck Sweepstakes! (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283138)

[rcsodak]

So I am trying to wrap my brain around this QB situation and I am left scratching my head. Admittedly I am a Gator who loves Tebow and is now a Broncos fan because of Tebow. I don't know if he has what it takes to become an NFL QB, but I am certainly rooting for him...but I am also trying to look at this objectively.

I get it that Elway/Fox did not draft Tebow (and may not have ever done so had they been in charge). That doesn't change the fact that the ORGANIZATION that Elway is now in charge of DID draft him in the first round and gave up picks to get him. So, as a business person I wonder how can you NOT try to make the most of that investment? Especially if the investment is a fan favorite, in general a good character guy, who wants to work hard and learn? Yet there's never been a "warm and fuzzy" amount of support that has come from Elway or Fox for Tebow.

I didn't think Tebow was ready to start this season, especially with the lockout. I have always hoped he could sit and learn under someone else for a while and work on what he needed to work on before starting. That's what I figured would happen...Orton would be the starter and Tebow would continue to be on the bench, maybe they would use him like they did last season in specific situations. I cringed when I heard the fans clamoring for him to start because I really believe he was not ready.

The Broncos management though, in attempting to trade Orton, opened a can of worms. As soon as people heard that, they thought it was Tebow Time. He was and still is the only QB under contract for next season right? Did Elway/Fox think it was Tebow time? If so, what were they seeing then that they soon after stopped seeing (see next paragraph). They should have kept the trade discussions under wraps until it was definite Miami was taking him or not tried to trade Orton at all.

Trade falls through, then we hear all this chatter about Tebow being the 4th QB on the depth chart? How did we go from Tebow time to him being the worst QB they have? Is he that bad? If so, why would you have even THOUGHT he could be the starter when you offered Orton up for trade? Sounds like they didn't do their homework. Or more likely they have handled this whole situation horribly...and continue to do so (see next paragraph).

Orton starts, team goes 1-4, Tebow gets his chance. Do I think he's any more prepared than he was this summer? NO. Orton most likely isn't mentoring him, have no idea who is exactly working on the Tebow Project (all agreed that he was a project coming out of college, so one would think there would be someone working on that project). Fox and Elway still seem to show little support or belief in Tebow. Lukewarm sound bites to the media at best. I think of Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy, and how they have the support of their teams and even further, someone who is mentoring and working with them. All of them may be more talented, more NFL ready, etc, I get that. But they at least go out there knowing the coach has their back and wants them to succeed. I don't get that feeling from the Broncos as far as Tebow goes. Sidebar - Alex Smith is a perfect example of how much coaching and mentoring can make a difference. John Harbaugh goes to SF, and suddenly Alex Smith is playing well for the first time in his career, after he was considered a bust by almost everyone.

Tebow is struggling, 3Qs of the Miami game and all of the Detroit game were awful. Again, little to no support from anyone in the Broncos organization. He's' being trashed on every sports talk show 24/7. John Elway is one of the best QBs to play the game. Why do we never see him working with Tebow? Again, if he thinks Tebow stinks that's fine. But just turn your back on him? Really? Is that what's best for the organization? And then to add insult to injury, he is seen at Stanford scouting Luck...fueling more drama.

Why not help him as much as possible so he can get better and you can trade him to someone, and at least so you can say you TRIED. Wouldn't it be better for the season to end with everyone saying that "they gave it their best shot, the kid just doesn't have what it takes, he was mentored by Elway and he still couldn't get it together, so there you go fans, we tried the Tebow Experiment. Now we must draft a QB for the future."

I believed early in the season when Orton was moving the ball but having issues in the Red Zone that they should employ the type of dual QB situation Florida ran when Tebow was a freshman and they won a national championship (Chris Leak played most of the time but Tebow put in when it made sense). That would have made the fans happy, gotten Tebow some experience, made good use of Orton, and we may have won some games. McDaniels did some of this last year, but it could have been exploited further this season.

Now the whole thing is a debacle...bad business decisions...bad handling of fans and players...bad all around.

I have to say I have lost respect for the powers that be. Orton treated like crap. Tebow not getting support and even getting disrespected by this recent visit to Stanford. Other players in the locker room probably extremely frustrated with things.

I think if Elway wants Luck he'll do anything he can to get him...
TT was never 4th.
EFX have never said a disparaging word about TT.
He IS a great player. Just NOT a good qb.
And how much respect for the "powers that be" garner from you, in your less than 2yrs of even knowing Denver had a Pro team?

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[rcsodak]

If you watch when Stanford runs play action pass...you'll kind of get your wish. Whenever they run that, Luck immediately looks panicked and if there is a resemblence of a pass rush...he'll tuck and run instead of stepping up in the pocket or scrambling. However...when he scrambles...he has a propensity to throw all arm, doesnt get his feet set and his accuracy drops significantly.

Unfortunately...most people only pay attention to his stats and the plays that work well. No doubt he has talent and skill and is the top QB...but he's not light years above the rest.

Jones throws better on the run, and has escapability in the pocket. But he will also take the bad sack, trying to escape. They all have warts.

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[rcsodak]

StLewie has already paid the 1st 2yrs of sams contract. He's a FQB in his 2nd yr. Honestly, this isnt even a possibility, and isnt even worthy of discussion. Lol
They also have Sea/Az games to play. Theres at least 2-3 more wins....more likely theyll end up with 6-7.

The 1st overall is between indy/miami. Period.

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[Ravage!!!]

I get it that Elway/Fox did not draft Tebow (and may not have ever done so had they been in charge). That doesn't change the fact that the ORGANIZATION that Elway is now in charge of DID draft him in the first round and gave up picks to get him. So, as a business person I wonder how can you NOT try to make the most of that investment? Especially if the investment is a fan favorite, in general a good character guy, who wants to work hard and learn? Yet there's never been a "warm and fuzzy" amount of support that has come from Elway or Fox for Tebow.
How much time do you suppose that they give a QB that hasn't demonstrated he has the basic mechanics to be an NFL QB? They can't simply try to draft players around him, buuild around him, and design an offense around him when he's far behind most rookies. The ORGANIZATION that Elway works for is paying him to fix the mistakes that McDoosh made. In doing that, he has to decide if Tebow is worth building around at all.

Being a nice guy, and having fan support, doesn't last long. YOu keep losing, and the fan support fades FAST. Elway isn't here to play nice simply because TTs a nice person. He's here to try and put a winning TEAM together. You say Tim wants to learn, but at the same time he's been criticized for his throwing motion since his sophmore year in college. He hasn't worked to change it, and I don't think he really wants to change it. Until I actually see him working hard on something, the rumor just seems to be larger than reality.


I didn't think Tebow was ready to start this season, especially with the lockout. I have always hoped he could sit and learn under someone else for a while and work on what he needed to work on before starting.

For how long, though? He sat a year. He had the offseason to hire coaches to help him with the things he lacks (Cam Newton did, as an example of a rookie doing it). He sat for a third of this season. Now people want to claim that he's "essentially a rookie"... when he sat. So what good does it do to sit if you are going to come onto the field and do exactly what you would have done if you didn't sit?


They should have kept the trade discussions under wraps until it was definite Miami was taking him or not tried to trade Orton at all.
How? You don't just have quiet conversations behind phones...ask McDoosh how that worked out for him. You have to deal with agents as well. Leaks get sent out, and the media picks it up.


Trade falls through, then we hear all this chatter about Tebow being the 4th QB on the depth chart? How did we go from Tebow time to him being the worst QB they have? Is he that bad? If so, why would you have even THOUGHT he could be the starter when you offered Orton up for trade? Sounds like they didn't do their homework. Or more likely they have handled this whole situation horribly...and continue to do so (see next paragraph).
Yes, he is that bad. Why did they start him? SImple..because there was no options and no loss. The team wasn't going to make the playoffs and we already knew Quinn wasn't our future. It was either going to be Tebow, or, we plan on drafting a new guy. Orton is going to be out of here. We gave our team the BEST chance it could to win early... and it failed. No where to go from here other than an evaluation season.


Orton starts, team goes 1-4, Tebow gets his chance. Do I think he's any more prepared than he was this summer? NO.
Orton shouldn't be the one that is responsible for Tebow's growth. Tebow is at the practices. He's in the film room, he's at the meetings. He's LEARNING and watching the same things that Orton does. He shouldn't need Orton to mentor him to increase his knowledge. So he SHOULD be better. He SHOULD have hired someone during the lock-out like many QBs did. But he didn't.


Orton most likely isn't mentoring him, have no idea who is exactly working on the Tebow Project (all agreed that he was a project coming out of college, so one would think there would be someone working on that project).
Who agreed to this? Everyone that watched Tebow in college...except the guy that drafted him. Apparently, after drafting him, he was a bigger project than even McDoosh realized. He didn't want to start him at all, either.


Fox and Elway still seem to show little support or belief in Tebow. Lukewarm sound bites to the media at best. I think of Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy, and how they have the support of their teams and even further, someone who is mentoring and working with them. All of them may be more talented, more NFL ready, etc, I get that. But they at least go out there knowing the coach has their back and wants them to succeed. I don't get that feeling from the Broncos as far as Tebow goes.
I've heard this from a lot of the Gator fans. They think the coaches should just be praising and praising Tebow despite his struggles. All you guys want to coddle Tim, and make him feel all warm and fuzzy. Its time to let Tebow grow up and fly from the nest. Cam Newton had all the criticisms that Tebow had coming out of college... MORE so, because he didn't have the huge following that Tim does. What did he do? He worked in the offseason and PROVED everyone wrong. That usually shuts people up and gets support. Andy Dalton was doubted BIG TIME before starting. He proved them wrong. T hey aren't getting this warm cuddling hugs from their coaches like you feel they are. The Florida crowd just feels that Tebow is getting the cold shoulder because you guys are so used to seeing him get so many praises, that you aren't used to seeing him get criticism.


Sidebar - Alex Smith is a perfect example of how much coaching and mentoring can make a difference. John Harbaugh goes to SF, and suddenly Alex Smith is playing well for the first time in his career, after he was considered a bust by almost everyone.
Harbaugh has done a fine job. But Alex was considered a top prospect coming out, and the 49ers had a LOT of money invested in him. They gave him more time than usual, and he was replaced once or twice. Now he's a 6th year veteran that is FINALLY playing decent football. Considering where he was drafted, he absolutely IS a bust.


Tebow is struggling, 3Qs of the Miami game and all of the Detroit game were awful. Again, little to no support from anyone in the Broncos organization. He's' being trashed on every sports talk show 24/7. John Elway is one of the best QBs to play the game. Why do we never see him working with Tebow? Again, if he thinks Tebow stinks that's fine. But just turn your back on him? Really? Is that what's best for the organization? And then to add insult to injury, he is seen at Stanford scouting Luck...fueling more drama.
I'm glad Tebow doesn't need as much coddling as you Florida fans do. Elway is NOT the coach. He doesn't have time to spend coaching Tim the basic fundamentals that Tim should already know. He has MUCH more things to do, and he DID spend some time with Tebow early on in practices. That is NOT turning yoru back on Tim.

Elway is an alumni of Stanford. Denver plays Oakland, in Oakland, this Sunday. Its about a 30 minute drive. The coached asked John to come to the locker room. There was other alumni players that are in the NFL there, as well. If Tebow can't understand that his job is in HIS hands right now, and if he doesn't improve he WILL be replaced...... then he needs to start understanding that.


Now the whole thing is a debacle...bad business decisions...bad handling of fans and players...bad all around.
Bad handling of the fans? I bet you wouldn't ahve said this if Tebow looked ok. Now that your hero is looking like the worst QB in the NFL, you want to blame everyone EXCEPT Tebow. Its everyone's fault, and now they aren't treating the FANS right because Tebow is failing.



I think if Elway wants Luck he'll do anything he can to get him...
I hope so!

[claymore]

So I am trying to wrap my brain around this QB situation and I am left scratching my head. Admittedly I am a Gator who loves Tebow and is now a Broncos fan because of Tebow. I don't know if he has what it takes to become an NFL QB, but I am certainly rooting for him...but I am also trying to look at this objectively.
.................
........
.....
I think if Elway wants Luck he'll do anything he can to get him...

I dont think EFX has more than 2-3 more years to turn this thing around. I think it will take longer than that to fix Tebow. They would rather gamble on a guy who they like than one that someone obviously overpaid for.

[The Glue Factory]

Now the whole thing is a debacle...bad business decisions...bad handling of fans and players...bad all around.

Welcome to the debacle known as Josh McDaniels (may he be forever reviled as the biggest failure to have ever been associated with the NFL.)

Like all toddler messes, they can't be cleaned up quickly. I'm not saying Tebow is the mess, but McFired left the Broncos in a heap of rubble. Elway and co. are in the process of cleaning up the destruction of the Broncos that McGone (and to a much lesser extent) Shanahan took the Broncos through.

[Cugel]

All i know, is put some scruffy hair on his head and he'd look like a caveman. Fuuuuuugggly.

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Yeah, but you know, give him a $50 million contract and you'd be amazed at how gorgeous his girlfriend will turn out to be. :ranger:

Our own Neckbeard isn't what you'd call great looking, and yet:

http://sportsbodega.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/kyle-orton-dancing.jpg

[EastCoastBronco]

I don't think it matters who the hell we have at QB.
Until we fix the goddam O-Line our QB's will be as interchangeable as Kleenex.
Tebow is probably our best option right now simply because he is big enough to take the pounding our QB is going to take.
Anyone who thinks that Luck would not have been sacked at least 5-6 times last week better put the crack pipe down...

[Ravage!!!]

Anytime the defense isn comfortable putting 8 people on the LOS..you have a problem. They would rush 8. OL's can't block 8 rushers. Tebow needs to do what QBs do, and make teams pay for only keeping 3 in the defensive backfield. He doesn't. Until he does, they will continue to rush 8.

Luck would at least have the skillset to do something about 8 man fronts.

[DenBronx]

Anytime the defense isn comfortable putting 8 people on the LOS..you have a problem. They would rush 8. OL's can't block 8 rushers. Tebow needs to do what QBs do, and make teams pay for only keeping 3 in the defensive backfield. He doesn't. Until he does, they will continue to rush 8.

Luck would at least have the skillset to do something about 8 man fronts.

That's why I don't fully blame TT for that. Everytime they rushed 8 where was the quick slants to the slot WR? Where was the bubble screens? TT needed some quick throws to get him in rhythm and to make the Detriot D play honest.

He did hold the ball way too long and on top of that he has such a loopy throwing motion. That is disaster waiting to happen!

But yeah, McCoys play calling was garbage.

[Ravage!!!]

How do you throw a quick screen to a wr when no one is there to block? Not to mention, the defenders were playing man-to-man on those blitzes. You throw a quick out to the WR on a screen with the defender in his face, and you see 6 go the other way.

As far as the quick slants, thats something every QB and WR need to do on any given play if there is a blitz. The OC can't know if they are blitzing before he calls the play. The QB needs to read the defense, know where the hot route is, and hit it. So there definitely should be some there, but it doesn't necessarily mean it has to come from the call on the sideline AS a quick slant. Those are built into every play.

[6458bird]

I knew the Broncos existed way before Tebow played for them. Have been watching since the early days of John Elway. Just didn't have a particular reason to root for them before this, being I am not from CO. But thanks for the comment. I guess you think anyone who is from Florida and likes Tebow doesn't have any prior NFL exposure, or just now started watching football. We are all a bunch of zealots who know nothing.

Nowhere in my post do you see that I am a fanatic who is saying he is the end all be all. I am not asking for the guy to be "coddled" (whatever that equates to in your mind). He's dealt with criticism. He's handled it well. But you just don't get the sense that he was set up for success or that anyone is interested enough to set him up for success. Cam Newton? Yes, he worked with Chris Weinke, and others I am sure. Who do you think made that happen? I am guessing the Carolina coaches made sure their #1 pick got all the help he could "legally" get during the lockout. Andy Dalton? The Bengals knew Carson was not going to be back, so they committed to Dalton early, and I am guessing he was set up for success too. Show me where the Broncos really committed to and set Tebow up for success. Wouldn't John Elway have been able to suggest a QB coach for Tebow to hire (since he's too busy I guess)? You're telling me Tebow refused that? C'mon. Hard work is who he is. Isn't the word on the street that Elway has met with Tebow maybe 3 times total, even though they live close by each other. Yet he's seen Andrew Luck 2x in the past month. So I am not buying your argument that Elway doesn't want to be "hands on" or that Tim didn't want to put in the work or refused to get help.

Bottom Line - It just seems strange the way this whole situation has gone - which was the point of my post. I just don't get it.

And re: the Fans...your comment doesn't even make sense? I am not talking about Tebow now, I am talking about the whole roller coaster we've been on for months. Trade Orton, Tebow time, No wait, He's staying, Oh now we're benching him, Okay now it's Tebow time, but let's trade our best WR away, etc. Handled poorly, bottom line.

[Northman]

I knew the Broncos existed way before Tebow played for them. Have been watching since the early days of John Elway. Just didn't have a particular reason to root for them before this, being I am not from CO. But thanks for the comment. I guess you think anyone who is from Florida and likes Tebow doesn't have any prior NFL exposure, or just now started watching football. We are all a bunch of zealots who know nothing.

Nowhere in my post do you see that I am a fanatic who is saying he is the end all be all. I am not asking for the guy to be "coddled" (whatever that equates to in your mind). He's dealt with criticism. He's handled it well. But you just don't get the sense that he was set up for success or that anyone is interested enough to set him up for success. Cam Newton? Yes, he worked with Chris Weinke, and others I am sure. Who do you think made that happen? I am guessing the Carolina coaches made sure their #1 pick got all the help he could "legally" get during the lockout. Andy Dalton? The Bengals knew Carson was not going to be back, so they committed to Dalton early, and I am guessing he was set up for success too. Show me where the Broncos really committed to and set Tebow up for success. Wouldn't John Elway have been able to suggest a QB coach for Tebow to hire (since he's too busy I guess)? You're telling me Tebow refused that? C'mon. Hard work is who he is. Isn't the word on the street that Elway has met with Tebow maybe 3 times total, even though they live close by each other. Yet he's seen Andrew Luck 2x in the past month. So I am not buying your argument that Elway doesn't want to be "hands on" or that Tim didn't want to put in the work or refused to get help.

Bottom Line - It just seems strange the way this whole situation has gone - which was the point of my post. I just don't get it.

And re: the Fans...your comment doesn't even make sense? I am not talking about Tebow now, I am talking about the whole roller coaster we've been on for months. Trade Orton, Tebow time, No wait, He's staying, Oh now we're benching him, Okay now it's Tebow time, but let's trade our best WR away, etc. Handled poorly, bottom line.

Nah, i like your posts and hope you stick around. You will have to forgive us as there is a couple of Tebow fanatics who have pretty much ruined the Tebow experience for the rest of us. I would of high fived your first post as it was well thought out but i didnt care for the last comments to which i disagreed with.

Elway has actually gone out of his way to try and help Tebow in practice, it was certainly reported by the media and there have been times that both Fox and Elway have given Tebow much credit and kudos. Heck, this last outing i didnt think Tebow really improved all that much but Fox disagreed and stated it. So i think your being a bit harsh on the Fox and Elway at the moment because while i think they are trying to support Tim they are also just being honest about his progress.

[dogfish]

That's why I don't fully blame TT for that. Everytime they rushed 8 where was the quick slants to the slot WR? Where was the bubble screens? TT needed some quick throws to get him in rhythm and to make the Detriot D play honest.

He did hold the ball way too long and on top of that he has such a loopy throwing motion. That is disaster waiting to happen!

But yeah, McCoys play calling was garbage.

i agree completely about the screens, but i sure as hell wouldn't call a slant with tebow. . . if he doesn't airmail it into the fifth row, he'll throw it three feet behind the receiver and get it picked for sure. . . they need to use more moving pockets-- i think tim's brain only functions when his feet are moving. . .

[Lancane]

I knew the Broncos existed way before Tebow played for them. Have been watching since the early days of John Elway. Just didn't have a particular reason to root for them before this, being I am not from CO. But thanks for the comment. I guess you think anyone who is from Florida and likes Tebow doesn't have any prior NFL exposure, or just now started watching football. We are all a bunch of zealots who know nothing.

Nowhere in my post do you see that I am a fanatic who is saying he is the end all be all. I am not asking for the guy to be "coddled" (whatever that equates to in your mind). He's dealt with criticism. He's handled it well. But you just don't get the sense that he was set up for success or that anyone is interested enough to set him up for success. Cam Newton? Yes, he worked with Chris Weinke, and others I am sure. Who do you think made that happen? I am guessing the Carolina coaches made sure their #1 pick got all the help he could "legally" get during the lockout. Andy Dalton? The Bengals knew Carson was not going to be back, so they committed to Dalton early, and I am guessing he was set up for success too. Show me where the Broncos really committed to and set Tebow up for success. Wouldn't John Elway have been able to suggest a QB coach for Tebow to hire (since he's too busy I guess)? You're telling me Tebow refused that? C'mon. Hard work is who he is. Isn't the word on the street that Elway has met with Tebow maybe 3 times total, even though they live close by each other. Yet he's seen Andrew Luck 2x in the past month. So I am not buying your argument that Elway doesn't want to be "hands on" or that Tim didn't want to put in the work or refused to get help.

Bottom Line - It just seems strange the way this whole situation has gone - which was the point of my post. I just don't get it.

And re: the Fans...your comment doesn't even make sense? I am not talking about Tebow now, I am talking about the whole roller coaster we've been on for months. Trade Orton, Tebow time, No wait, He's staying, Oh now we're benching him, Okay now it's Tebow time, but let's trade our best WR away, etc. Handled poorly, bottom line.

Actually it makes complete sense, to sum it up, Elway had no idea what sort of mess he was inheriting, he thought he had an idea...but he was wrong.

To start with, he allowed himself to be saddled with a General Manager that has shown incompetence, he hired a coach that let's be honest...was someone that is more like coaches he knew back in the day, a coach that really isn't in tune with the modern NFL. Then to top it off, Elway and Fox decided to keep an offensive coordinator that hasn't had an original thought in his head since before he was conceived!

Is it Tebow's fault? No, but the team was no longer married to him, Orton or Quinn, once McDaniels was fired all obligation to them other then their contracts became null and void. But the fans are in fact the problem, this whole Tebowmania shit caused a headache, one really he didn't have to deal with. I sure in the hell wouldn't of...of course I wouldn't have hired Fox or kept McCoy either. Elway botched the whole mess, he should have traded Tebow to Jacksonville for whatever he could get, he should have asked less for Orton in way of compensation and he should have put Quinn on the market for anything. He should have hired a coach who's style of coaching was something familiar, like Dennison.

Has everything been handled correctly? I don't believe so...but he did better then some in what was literally a bad pun of a joke to begin with. When your quarterbacking skill is so bad that the guy who drafted you doesn't want to play you, then there is a big problem.

In all seriousness, I'd rather Jimmy Clausen was our quarterback then Tebow, not because I think he's better...which he likely is, but because Tebow came with luggage that no team should have to deal with - his fans which trust me we could live without...not all, some of you are worth keeping around, but the others? Not so much.

[Ravage!!!]

I guess you think anyone who is from Florida and likes Tebow doesn't have any prior NFL exposure, or just now started watching football. We are all a bunch of zealots who know nothing.
Not at all. I'm saying we've seen it before. The board is filled with the Florida fans that feel that Tebow isn't given a "Fair shake" by the team. So if it feels as though you are labeled immediately, well, thats because its hard not to considering the influx of "zealot" fans.


Nowhere in my post do you see that I am a fanatic who is saying he is the end all be all. I am not asking for the guy to be "coddled" (whatever that equates to in your mind). He's dealt with criticism. He's handled it well. But you just don't get the sense that he was set up for success or that anyone is interested enough to set him up for success. Cam Newton? Yes, he worked with Chris Weinke, and others I am sure. Who do you think made that happen? I am guessing the Carolina coaches made sure their #1 pick got all the help he could "legally" get during the lockout. Andy Dalton? The Bengals knew Carson was not going to be back, so they committed to Dalton early, and I am guessing he was set up for success too. Show me where the Broncos really committed to and set Tebow up for success. Wouldn't John Elway have been able to suggest a QB coach for Tebow to hire (since he's too busy I guess)? You're telling me Tebow refused that?
Come on. You want the Broncos to show commitment, but then didn't like that they were planning on starting Tebow from the beginning. They tried to trade Orton while they could get something for a player that was leaving...not to mention alleviate the ridiculous salary that Orton was being paid.

What kind of commitment would you like to see from the Broncos to Tebow? Hes a project that McDoosh wanted to deal with, not Fox. Not Elway. McD soon learned what a major project Tebow was, and didn't want to start him at ALLL that first year. It took McD's firing to get any games for Tebow. But now Fox and Elway are stuck with the gigantic political nightmare that is Tebow. But they are starting him. What kind of commitment would you expect them to give him?

You don't know what kind of discussions happened between Tebow and the staff. There are professional institutions all over the country that provide professional coaching to professional athletes. Flacco is another example of a QB that works out with one in the offseason. This is Tebow's job to get the additional training that HE needs... if he is dedicated to working on HIS craft. If he wants to start in the NFL as a QB, HE needs to do what it takes to improve HIS mechanics, and he hasn't made a single step in that direction.


C'mon. Hard work is who he is.
Yes, but he doesn't work on what he NEEDS to work at, and only what he wants to work at. Lets face it, he was heavily criticized after his sophmore year in college for his throwing motion. After his Junior year, he made statements about working hard on changing sot hat he could prove he could be an NFL QB. Did he change it? Not one bit. So where is all that hard work going? Into running and working out? Certainly not on his footwork, throwing motion, and accuracy. Certainly not on taking snaps. Certainly not EVERYTHING that needs to be improved upon. He wants to do it HIS way, and doesn't feel he needs to change. I keep hearing how HARD of a worker he is, yet he was COMPLETELY outworked by the guy that many tried to sell as "lazy."


Isn't the word on the street that Elway has met with Tebow maybe 3 times total, even though they live close by each other. Yet he's seen Andrew Luck 2x in the past month. So I am not buying your argument that Elway doesn't want to be "hands on" or that Tim didn't want to put in the work or refused to get help.
Wait... are you referring to talking, or are you talking about "working with." Elway and Tebow talk a lot. Elway talks with a lot of the players a lot. But he can NOT go out and "work out" with the QB! He's not a coach. They have coaches for that. That's not his job, and he isn't going to go 'coach' a QB! I find its silly to criticize Elway for not doing his job purely because you feel he "should" because his name is Elway. This was talked about when Elway was hired. He's NOT the QBs coach. He's not the OC. He's NOT goign to be on the field throwing balls and doing drop-back drills with the QBs (on a regular basis, because Elway already did that with Tebow some this last offseason).



And re: the Fans...your comment doesn't even make sense? I am not talking about Tebow now, I am talking about the whole roller coaster we've been on for months. Trade Orton, Tebow time, No wait, He's staying, Oh now we're benching him, Okay now it's Tebow time, but let's trade our best WR away, etc.

I think its pretty simple what happened. THe Broncos saw a chance to trade Orton and they tried to take it...expecting to go with TEbow. Fox, NEVER said that Tebow was the starting QB. He always maintained that Orton was the starter. After watching Tebow practice, it became VERY clear that this team could NOT move forward with TT behind center and give this team ANY kind of chance early on. So they go with Orton (and Miami had backed out of the trade, its not like there were teams lining up). As we can see now, Orton DID give the team the best chance to win. The reports of Tebow looking horrible in practice were NOT exaggerated. We have posters here on the boards that go to camps, and were (although trying to be delicate about it) saying how awful Tebow was. So we go with Orton early because TT isn't ready. But considering we are out of the playoff hunt, its time to learn by being thrown in.

Not hard to see how its gone and why.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

back to original thread title - Elway at Stanford Practice - Scouting Luck.

As I pointed out, other alumni have also been there this week - for one - Toby Gerhart, who plays for the Vikings.

Also, I found the following on the NFL site, which, within the article, talks about Elway being at Stanford this week.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823bbb50/article/simms-not-sold-on-luck-as-next-great-quarterback?module=HP11_headline_stack

within this article, it references another article, which talks about Elway attending the Stanford/CU.

Link to that article:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d822f8aad/article/broncos-elway-takes-a-closer-look-at-stanford-qb-luck

Within this article, it states:


The Denver Post reported Sunday that John Elway, now the Broncos' vice president of football operations, was on hand Saturday to watch Stanford's dominant 48-7 victory over Colorado. And he wasn't simply there as an alum supporting his Cardinal, according to the newspaper. He was in Boulder specifically to get an up-close look at Luck's fine work, although Elway won't admit it.

The game was NOT in Boulder, as you can see by the following link, which lists CU's schedule. Also, when Stanford played CU AT STANFORD, it was homecoming.

http://www.cubuffs.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=600&SPID=255&SPSID=3850

My point is that not everything that is written is 100% accurate. As the Broncos said, Elway/Xanders are on a one week scounting trip. There are other college teams out there also.

[Cugel]

Anytime the defense isn comfortable putting 8 people on the LOS..you have a problem. They would rush 8. OL's can't block 8 rushers. Tebow needs to do what QBs do, and make teams pay for only keeping 3 in the defensive backfield. He doesn't. Until he does, they will continue to rush 8.

Luck would at least have the skillset to do something about 8 man fronts.

Luck would simply make a couple of passes for TDs and the defense would have to back out of the 8 man front. An 8 man front means ALL your receivers are in single coverage. One move by a guy to break free and get a step on the coverage means a TD or at least a long gain.

That's why teams normally keep a deep safety over the top to prevent the big play. Because that can change an entire game and put you suddenly in a 7 point hole.

The plays were drawn up by the coaching staff. Eric Decker was wide open --- and Tebow just missed the play. By 10 yards. Now the defense is more confident than ever that "if we get pressure on him we knew he couldn't do anything" in the words of the Lions defenders. :ranger:

[BroncoJoe]

This thread should have been titled without the final statement. Elway already saw him in live action against the Buffs. No need to attend a practice.

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[Denver Native (Carol)]

This thread should have been titled without the final statement. Elway already saw him in live action against the Buffs. No need to attend a practice.

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Other alumni were also there this week - there must be something going on. Gerhart, who plays for the Vikings, was there, and he talked to the Stanford team. I doubt his purpose for being there was to scout Luck.

[Ravage!!!]

This thread should have been titled without the final statement. Elway already saw him in live action against the Buffs. No need to attend a practice.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Really? Why not?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Not long ago, I sent the following, via email, to Jon Wilner, sports writer for the mercury news:

My email:

One of the writers for the Denver Post got wind of John Elway being at a Stanford practice this week, and of course, now the speculation is that he was there for the sole purpose of scouting Luck. However, Toby Gerhart, of the Minnesota Vikings, was also there, and he addressed the Stanford football team, as Elway also did. Also, I read on Andrew Gonzales' twitter that other alumni (no names were given) besides Elway and Gerhart, were also there this week. Is there something going on with alumni, which would explain why they are at Stanford this week?

Thanks,

Carol

Jon's response:

From: Wilner, Jon [JWilner@mercurynews.com]

Gerhart was there b/c the Vikings are off this week and he's visiting his sister. Elways was here b/c the Broncos are playing the Raiders and he came in early to scout Stanford and Cal players, which is apparently fairly common, according to Stanford's coach

[Northman]

One thing i love about Carol and Tned is that if there is a question that needs to be cleared up both of them are able to (at least 98% of the time) get a direct answer for and for that i :salute: you both. :beer:

[BeefStew25]

I want to give Carol a foot massage.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

One thing i love about Carol and Tned is that if there is a question that needs to be cleared up both of them are able to (at least 98% of the time) get a direct answer for and for that i :salute: you both. :beer:

Thanks North - what really bothered me about this is that in Lindsay's article, she mentioned the following:


Associated Press reporter Antonio Gonzalez reported via Twitter Wednesday afternoon that Elway is watching Stanford, and star quarterback Andrew Luck, practice in Palo Alto.

This is what Antonio had on his twitter account, in regards to Elway:


agonzalezAP Antonio Gonzalez
#Stanford coach David Shaw says Elway spoke to team about how proud he was of them and to keep pushing for more.
19 hours ago

agonzalezAP Antonio Gonzalez
#Broncos VP of football ops John Elway is at #Stanford practice tonight. Denver plays at Oakland on Sunday, or could it be another reason?

Then Lindsay uses that to title her article:

"Broncos’ John Elway spotted at Stanford practice, scouting Andrew Luck" which definitely leaves the impression that he is ONLY there to scout Luck. If she would have just stated that Broncos' John Elway spotted at Stanford practice, that would have been accurate.

Lindsay is usually better than this.

[Northman]

Lindsay is usually better than this.

I think it goes to show that even if your a fan of Jone's reports that even she will try to create controversy if possible. :lol:

[dogfish]

I want to give Carol a foot massage.

marcellus wallace might throw you out a window. . .

[chazoe60]

I had a vision:

"Andrew Luck lines up under center. This is it, the last play of SB_____. Here's the snap. Luck drops back, looks right. Oh, there's pressure from the blind side, he spins, buys some time. Luck looks left he launches it to the end zone. A perfect strike to TE Tim Tebow! Touchdown! Touchdow , can you believe it on he last play from scrimmage? The Broncos win the SuperBowl! The Broncos win the SuperBowl!"

[Northman]

I had a vision:

"Andrew Luck lines up under center. This is it, the last play of SB_____. Here's the snap. Luck drops back, looks right. Oh, there's pressure from the blind side, he spins, buys some time. Luck looks left he launches it to the end zone. A perfect strike to TE Tim Tebow! Touchdown! Touchdow , can you believe it on he last play from scrimmage? The Broncos win the SuperBowl! The Broncos win the SuperBowl!"

The minute i read the first line i knew the pass was going to Tebow. I just knew it. :lol:

[elsid13]

Good article on Luck and Simms comments

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/11/03/the-tape-never-lies-a-closer-look-at-andrew-luck/

[Shazam!]

Maybe he'll get Luck to say "I'm not going to play for anyone except the Denver Broncos" or pull something like he did in 1983.


I wish.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Andrew Luck wan’t the only excuse for John Elway to get out of the office. Elway, the Hall of Fame quarterback and boss of the Broncos’ football operations, and team general manager Brian Xanders are scouting the Northern California colleges this week.

Elway and Xanders scouted the University of California’s practice Thursday.

Xanders has been scouting college pro prospects two or three days a week since the season started and Elway is joining him as part of his first-year apprentice work as a front-office executive.

rest of article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/03/elway-xanders-watch-cal-practice-today/10551/

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Good article on Luck and Simms comments

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/11/03/the-tape-never-lies-a-closer-look-at-andrew-luck/

That was a good break down. I'm so relieved it wasn't another "expert analysis" of another ex-pro just blowing hot air.

[battherastard]

He should be somewhere more realistic like an Oklahoma or Baylor practice.

[dogfish]

rest of article - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/03/elway-xanders-watch-cal-practice-today/10551/

hopefully the duke can give xanders some tips on what talent looks like!

[BeefStew25]

Carol, are you a foot person?

[sneakers]

Maybe he doesn't think we are going to win another game.

[EastCoastBronco]

Man...
If something happens to this Luck kid, about half the members of the forum are heading for a severe depression...

[claymore]

Man...
If something happens to this Luck kid, about half the members of the forum are heading for a sever depression...
We are used to QB depressions around here. Plummer, Cutler, Orton and now Tebow. We might as well branch off into the college ranks.

[Superchop 7]

I would be "all in" to get Luck.

Seriously.

He comes a helluva lot cheaper than Stafford, that money can buy some free agents.

We go nowhere FOREVER without a franchise QB.

[TT15Superman]

I know Elway has a woody for Luck but it's not going to happen.

There are about 5 teams worse than us and I dont see the Colts or Mia winning a game all year unless the play each other.

I think as much as Elway wants Luck the other teams are going to want him more. We would have to give at least TWO 1st and TWO 2nds and that's just to climb up a few spots. Imagine if somehow Luck refuses Indy or Miami and Denver gets a deal done.

Wonder if the NFL will not look to see if there weren't some back office shenanigans?

Therefore, I don't see it happening. John needs to keep the wood in his pants.

Plus, give "TWO 1st and TWO 2nds and that's just to climb up a few spots" would = SuckWithLuck for years. See that OL we got?

[TXBRONC]

Imagine if somehow Luck refuses Indy or Miami and Denver gets a deal done.

Wonder if the NFL will not look to see if there weren't some back office shenanigans?

Therefore, I don't see it happening. John needs to keep the wood in his pants.

Plus, give "TWO 1st and TWO 2nds and that's just to climb up a few spots" would = SuckWithLuck for years. See that OL we got?

Why would the NFL have to look into it? They would have to have a credible reason do so. Just because is at a Standford practice isn't suspect anything. If Luck refused to play for Miami or Indianapolis would be the first time that has happened.

The offensive is totally to blame. Many times Tebow holds onto the ball way to long. I said in a different that's not unique to Tebow because a lot young quarterbacks do that very thing.

[Ravage!!!]

Luck isn't going ot refuse to play for anyone.

But I would give up 2 1sts and 2 seconds for him in a heartbeat.

Tebow holds onto the ball too long, but I don't think thats really his biggest problem. I think his inability to process the information, is the problem. The game, right now, is just too big for him in the passing game. He can run it, he's big enough and good enough athlete to tuck and run and feel comfortable. But when it comes to passing, I think he's lost.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Luck isn't going ot refuse to play for anyone.

But I would give up 2 1sts and 2 seconds for him in a heartbeat.

Tebow holds onto the ball too long, but I don't think thats really his biggest problem. I think his inability to process the information, is the problem. The game, right now, is just too big for him in the passing game. He can run it, he's big enough and good enough athlete to tuck and run and feel comfortable. But when it comes to passing, I think he's lost.

This is where I'm confused. Coaches and ex coaches raved about his football acumen during the draft process. It's hard for me to grasp the idea that he's just not smart enough when he's suppose to have a high football IQ.

I also don't see how his accuracy could get worst. His deep balls were money last year. He was a good deep ball passer in college too. Yet this year they're all sailing out of bounds or too long. What gives?

I think Tebow definitely has an array of things he needs to improve upon. However, I think a bunch of unproven WR's is part of the problem too. Eddie Royal is his most experienced WR right now. :eek:

I'm still just lost about how a guy could be so inaccurate when he supposedly works so hard. I really hope we see some improvement this week, and the weeks to come because if not we will have yet one more hole to fill over the next few years.

[Npba900]

i agree completely about the screens, but i sure as hell wouldn't call a slant with tebow. . . if he doesn't airmail it into the fifth row, he'll throw it three feet behind the receiver and get it picked for sure. . . they need to use more moving pockets-- i think tim's brain only functions when his feet are moving. . .

Why isn't Dalton having the same problems as Tebow? Why aren't other teams throwing up 8-man fronts to try and confuse Dalton as teams are now doing to Tebow???? And Cam Newton for that matter? or Ponder??

The answer is both Dalton and Newton would make teams pay for using an 8 man front. Should Oakland use an 8-man front against the Broncos Tebow is going to need to find a way to make the Raiders pay.....and pay dearly.

[WARHORSE]

Carol, are you a foot person?



:listen:




Its in the grapevine that Claymore is.




I know NOTTINKS!!

[NightTerror218]

Why isn't Dalton having the same problems as Tebow? Why aren't other teams throwing up 8-man fronts to try and confuse Dalton as teams are now doing to Tebow???? And Cam Newton for that matter? or Ponder??

The answer is both Dalton and Newton would make teams pay for using an 8 man front. Should Oakland use an 8-man front against the Broncos Tebow is going to need to find a way to make the Raiders pay.....and pay dearly.

Hopefully the play calls are not all runs or deep routes. More screens and quick slants would help this out.

[Nick]

We are used to QB depressions around here. Plummer, Cutler, Orton and now Tebow. We might as well branch off into the college ranks.

i would give my big toe to have the plummer cutler debate again... That was a good problem we were in.