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Denver Native (Carol)
11-02-2011, 05:23 PM
Tom Flores talks Raiders vs. Broncos!
Former coach of the Raiders and current radio host, Tom Flores calls in to talk Raiders vs. Broncos!

Flores also has his thoughts on TT

http://www.1043thefan.com/channels/MikeEvansScottHastings/Story.aspx?ID=1565628

AND - Shannon called the show today:

NFL Hall Of Famer and former Denver Broncos Tight End, Shannon Sharpe calls in to lend his thoughts on Tim Tebow and he also talks Broncos vs. Raiders.

http://www.1043thefan.com/channels/MikeEvansScottHastings/Story.aspx?ID=1565647

rcsodak
11-02-2011, 05:57 PM
So for us on our phones, what was the synopsis?

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nevcraw
11-02-2011, 07:41 PM
So for us on our phones, what was the synopsis?

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is that what you watch the games on?

rcsodak
11-02-2011, 08:23 PM
is that what you watch the games on?
Hardly. I'm home on weekends. Though, i did watch the preseason games on my phone (verizon nfl) since it was that or nothing.

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TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 08:26 PM
So for us on our phones, what was the synopsis?

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Synopsis: If Denver has a chance to draft Landry Jones they need to run as far away from him as they can. :coffee:

:heh:

rcsodak
11-02-2011, 08:43 PM
Synopsis: If Denver has a chance to draft Landry Jones they need to run as far away from him as they can. :coffee:

:heh:

Dang Shorthorn fans! ;')

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TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 08:49 PM
Dang Shorthorn fans! ;')

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I'm a USC fan you Crimson and Cream dork. :D

BroncoStud
11-02-2011, 11:17 PM
Barkley/Jones just aren't anywhere NEAR Andrew Luck. If we have a high 1st rounder, which appears likely, we would be foolish to waste in on a QB not named Luck.

Too many holes to fill to waste it on questionable talents like Barkley/Jones, especially Jones, who is Kyle Orton with a slightly stronger arm.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 12:43 AM
Barkley/Jones just aren't anywhere NEAR Andrew Luck. If we have a high 1st rounder, which appears likely, we would be foolish to waste in on a QB not named Luck.

Too many holes to fill to waste it on questionable talents like Barkley/Jones, especially Jones, who is Kyle Orton with a slightly stronger arm.

You keep talking the same shit BS, and I'm not saying it to be harsh...but who do you want Denver to draft? Because there is only a 10% chance at this time that Denver will be able to draft Luck. So who? I keep abreast of the draft rankings and grades more then most, I don't see anyone of such importance that overlooking a top quarterback prospect makes it worthwhile. Right now at this time the Top 10 overall prospects for the 2012 NFL Draft according to CBS Sports and other nationally recognized scouting services are almost all offensive players. Coples and Brown who're ranked 9th and 10th are it, so who? But remember this, those rankings are based on accumulated grades from some of the top scouting services in the nation, and they have Luck, Barkley and Jones as the 1st, 2nd, and 8th best prospects in the draft.

According to your theory, Luck is the only one worth the risk which is utterly asinine, because then you miss out prospects like Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Dan Marino, Jim Kelley, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Christian Ponder, Colt McCoy, Andy Dalton, Stephen McGee, Joe Flacco, Kevin Kolb, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Matt Schaub, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins, Tom Brady, Rich Gannon, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason, Ken O'Brien, Phil Simms, Joe Montana, Dan Fouts and the list goes on. And right about now there is few if any who would not take any of the aforementioned quarterbacks over the shit we have.

So please, tell me who you think we should take and why, make a fair argument about your stance...please.

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 01:23 AM
Well Lan,

If Luck isn't an option I and assuming Denver has a top 5 draft pick, I would prefer we do our best to make a move backwards and pick up an additional pick.

We could move back and pick up a DT like Devon Still.

We could also go the way of a SS like Barron.

We could also move Franklin back to OG and draft a guy like Matt Kalil and start him at RT.

There are plenty of GOOD options that don't have us drafting a QB in round 1.

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 01:31 AM
According to your theory, Luck is the only one worth the risk which is utterly asinine, because then you miss out prospects like Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Dan Marino, Jim Kelley, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Christian Ponder, Colt McCoy, Andy Dalton, Stephen McGee, Joe Flacco, Kevin Kolb, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Matt Schaub, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins, Tom Brady, Rich Gannon, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason, Ken O'Brien, Phil Simms, Joe Montana, Dan Fouts and the list goes on. And right about now there is few if any who would not take any of the aforementioned quarterbacks over the shit we have.

So please, tell me who you think we should take and why, make a fair argument about your stance...please.

Josh Freeman sucks.
Mark Sanchez is OK.
Christian Ponder is unproven.
Colt McCoy isn't tearing it up.
Stephen McGee? He's a 3rd string QB... Lmao...
Kevin Kolb looks like he sucks.
Matt Schuab isn't that great.
Kerry Collins sucks.
Ken O'Brien sucked.

Thanks for proving my point for me
Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft pick.
Jake Plummer was a 2nd round draft pick.
Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick.
Rich Gannon was a 4th round draft pick.
Joe Montana was a 3rd round draft pick.
Dan Fouts was a 3rd round draft pick.


We DON'T need to draft a QB in the first round to be assured success at that position. Before we even think of drafting and developing a QB we need to have a SYSTEM in place that will work. Tom Brady wouldn't be as successful as he is if he didn't have a great system. Joe Montana, the same. Drew Brees, the same. Dan Fouts, the same. Rich Gannon found succcess in Gruden's system and was mediocre before that. Jake Plummer was not good in Arizona and had a LOT of success in Shanahan's system.

My point is that it won't matter who we draft if Mike McCoy is the man running this offense. The formative years are the most vital for a QB and McCoy has proven to be a hack.

Don't take a QB in round 1 unless it's Luck and fire Mike McCoy.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 01:40 AM
Well Lan,

If Luck isn't an option I and assuming Denver has a top 5 draft pick, I would prefer we do our best to make a move backwards and pick up an additional pick.

We could move back and pick up a DT like Devon Still.

We could also go the way of a SS like Barron.

We could also move Franklin back to OG and draft a guy like Matt Kalil and start him at RT.

There are plenty of GOOD options that don't have us drafting a QB in round 1.

Matt Kalil is a Top Five pick, it would be stupid to draft a left tackle that high when there is no one worth a damn behind center to protect. And this offensive tackle class is deep, so deep in fact that there will be left tackles available in the second round like Potter and Reynolds.

Devon Still and Mark Barron are both considered borderline players, their draft graded is teetering on the proverbial line between first and second. Nor do I see Denver drafting a safety when we have three young safeties with two whom are both highly regarded by staff over other needs which are glaring. Whereas Still at least makes sense, then again what's the point, Fox runs a bend don't break defense and such defenses rely on good offenses which we don't have.

Now, if Denver traded for a quarterback before the draft and made a move for Kalil or traded down and took Still, then and only then would I say it was the right move, unless they're sold on Foles or Tannehill and that's why they decided to move back.

The quarterback position can not be ignored BS, the majority is ready to lynch Fox as is, they have a bad off-season and disregard the needs of this team and the fans will not be booing Orton or Tebow, calling for a quarterback, they'll start booing Elway and Fox, and more Fox then anyone since he's on the field.

I just don't see why you believe it's Luck or bust...and that is really the only answer your giving.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 02:16 AM
Josh Freeman sucks. 15th overall quarterback up there with Jay Cutler and Joe Flacco!
Mark Sanchez is OK. Has already made it to two AFCCG's, not great but better then who we have without question.
Christian Ponder is unproven. Has thus far proven better then Tebow, his numbers are on par to be the top rookie quarterback behind Newton.
Colt McCoy isn't tearing it up. 19th overall quarterback right up there with Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez!
Stephen McGee? He's a 3rd string QB... Lmao... Granted, but Dallas is enamored with him and are grooming him to succeed Romo, who was third string at one time as well.
Kevin Kolb looks like he sucks. Kolb has done a good job in Arizona, his numbers are better then Cutler's, Ryan's and Sanchez's!
Matt Schuab isn't that great. Okay, if you say so...he's just the 8th overall quarterback - I think your standards are skewed.
Kerry Collins sucks. Now he does, but not when he was in New York under Sean Payton and Jim Fassel. Brett Favre sucked near the end of his career as well!
Ken O'Brien sucked. What the F' are you smoking? O'Brien was a Pro Bowl quarterback that is considered by many to be up there with Jim Kelly and Jim Plunkett!


Thanks for proving my point for me
Drew Brees was a 2nd round draft pick. Was the 32nd overall pick, which is basically a first round pick.
Jake Plummer was a 2nd round draft pick. Plummer slid into the second round, he was considered a late first round prospect, it happens - look at Ryan Mallett or Colt McCoy.
Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick. Fluke, look at Terrell Davis!
Rich Gannon was a 4th round draft pick. Look at the era of when the next three were drafted...different time different era.
Joe Montana was a 3rd round draft pick. "" "" ""
Dan Fouts was a 3rd round draft pick. "" "" ""


We DON'T need to draft a QB in the first round to be assured success at that position. Before we even think of drafting and developing a QB we need to have a SYSTEM in place that will work. Tom Brady wouldn't be as successful as he is if he didn't have a great system. Joe Montana, the same. Drew Brees, the same. Dan Fouts, the same. Rich Gannon found succcess in Gruden's system and was mediocre before that. Jake Plummer was not good in Arizona and had a LOT of success in Shanahan's system.

My point is that it won't matter who we draft if Mike McCoy is the man running this offense. The formative years are the most vital for a QB and McCoy has proven to be a hack.

Don't take a QB in round 1 unless it's Luck and fire Mike McCoy.

You actually didn't prove anything...but that you'll ignore what doesn't fit with the argument you want to present which is quite hilarious - my wife does the same thing! Such as ignoring the fact that Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Donovan McNabb and others were not the top prospects of their respective draft classes but first round picks...did it slip your mind?

At no time in history has there been more teams with more franchise quarterbacks as there is in the modern NFL. Can quarterbacks be found later? It's possible, does it happen as much as in the first round? No.

There is no difference in the risk between taking Barkley or Foles except for the value of the pick used, but there is a risk that ignoring a quarterback talent wise and taking one not considered as talented could lead to fruitless action. Let's say we draft Tannehill who turns out okay, not great...but Barkley and Jones, even Griffin are up there in the upper echelon's, would you take Ben Roethlisberger over Colt McCoy or Phillip Rivers over Andy Dalton? Same argument...different result!

:beer:

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 09:13 AM
Point is that a good front office like that New Englad had can make moves with high picks and stockpile good players. We don't NEED to draft a QB in round 1, especially if the guy isn't right.

Make some moves, use people's desire for Luck against them and stockpile. Build the defense, build the offensive line, grab a RB in the later rounds... Grab a good QB in the later rounds.

Watch Barkley or Jones. They are CLEARLY not as good as Luck. Watch Foles, Lindley, the others. They are CLEARLY not complete QBs. Watch RG III and Tannehill, while interesting prospects they have an uphill battle to adjust to the NFL game like Tebow does, but they MIGHT come in the later rounds, which makes them attractive prospects.

Denver needs to rebuild and not waste extremely high picks on QBs who will never develop into a solid starter. I will tell you right now that Landry Jones is never going to be a star at the next level. Barkley MIGHT, Jones will not.

silkamilkamonico
11-03-2011, 09:23 AM
Point is that a good front office like that New Englad had can make moves with high picks and stockpile good players. We don't NEED to draft a QB in round 1, especially if the guy isn't right.

Make some moves, use people's desire for Luck against them and stockpile. Build the defense, build the offensive line, grab a RB in the later rounds... Grab a good QB in the later rounds.

Watch Barkley or Jones. They are CLEARLY not as good as Luck. Watch Foles, Lindley, the others. They are CLEARLY not complete QBs. Watch RG III and Tannehill, while interesting prospects they have an uphill battle to adjust to the NFL game like Tebow does, but they MIGHT come in the later rounds, which makes them attractive prospects.

Denver needs to rebuild and not waste extremely high picks on QBs who will never develop into a solid starter. I will tell you right now that Landry Jones is never going to be a star at the next level. Barkley MIGHT, Jones will not.

You're saying you want us to draft a QB in the second round, or even in the later rounds to come in and start right away for Denver next year?

Jones is getting similar grades to Bradford, and is regarded in higher sense when it comes to making his own reads at the LOS.

You're argument for the QB's taken in the second round and making it is based on a much lower percentage than getting any QB in the first round and going with him. Much lower.

silkamilkamonico
11-03-2011, 09:39 AM
Jake Plunger had 2 playoff wins his entire career. I'm not even sure why he is in this argument, The dude was a waste of a QB stint and undoubtedly underachieved his entire career. Or someone was just stupid enough somewhere to sell the idea that he was a top 2 round pick.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 11:11 AM
Jake Plunger had 2 playoff wins his entire career. I'm not even sure why he is in this argument, The dude was a waste of a QB stint and undoubtedly underachieved his entire career. Or someone was just stupid enough somewhere to sell the idea that he was a top 2 round pick.

At that time Silk there was a drought of elite quarterbacks...it was a great time to be a collegiate defensive player, however...Jake Plummer was elite, one of the few in fact, Peyton Manning and Ryal Leaf were just becoming household names, Steve McNair and Kerry Collins had been the last two quality quarterbacks drafted.

I've long said that had Denver drafted Plummer, he'd have sat behind Elway, been coached by a better staff and not have had the issues that he had. Arizona wanted a plug and play quarterback that was a local favorite, they did not realize that he needed time to develop.

CoachChaz
11-03-2011, 11:42 AM
Point is that a good front office like that New Englad had can make moves with high picks and stockpile good players. We don't NEED to draft a QB in round 1, especially if the guy isn't right.

Make some moves, use people's desire for Luck against them and stockpile. Build the defense, build the offensive line, grab a RB in the later rounds... Grab a good QB in the later rounds.

Watch Barkley or Jones. They are CLEARLY not as good as Luck. Watch Foles, Lindley, the others. They are CLEARLY not complete QBs. Watch RG III and Tannehill, while interesting prospects they have an uphill battle to adjust to the NFL game like Tebow does, but they MIGHT come in the later rounds, which makes them attractive prospects.

Denver needs to rebuild and not waste extremely high picks on QBs who will never develop into a solid starter. I will tell you right now that Landry Jones is never going to be a star at the next level. Barkley MIGHT, Jones will not.

I plead with you to watch a few Stanford games...regardless of the opponent and tell me Luck's game is flawless.

First...look at the offense they run and tell me what NFL team will ever run that. Then count how many times he throws off his back foot. Then watch how he shits his pants in play action if the 1st receiver isnt open. Then watch as he tucks and runs immediately when protection breaks down.

I implore you...please show me where Luck is SOOOOO much better than Barkley.

Northman
11-03-2011, 12:14 PM
I implore you...please show me where Luck is SOOOOO much better than Barkley.

In favor of Luck is obviously the redzone scoring in which the numbers are as follows for the 2011 season:

Stanford- 100%
USC- 75%

However...., This can mean a lot of things such as competition and how many run vs pass in the redzone.

So, i looked up their QB ratings against top 40 teams.

Luck was listed 4th with a QB rating of 168.8
Barkley was listed 13th with a rating of 151.0

But the biggest surprise to me was who was at #1.

RGIII was listed 1st with a rating of 185.3

I would have to say thats pretty impressive as i did not expect that at all. Some of the other QB's we have been talking about are as follows in that category:

Russell Wilson- 2nd at 176.0
Kellen Moore- 8th at 157.3
Landry Jones- 9th at 157.1
Brock Osweiler- 11th at 153.7
Nick Foles- 21st at 143.3
Kirk Cousins- 46th at 123.0

However, back to the Luck/Barkley comparisons.

Completion percentage vs top 40:

Luck- 70.7%
Barkley- 67.9%

Now, im not sure how much the percentages are affected by how many passes thrown or what but the QB rating vs top 40 opponents kind of squashes the idea that Luck is only good because of the conference and schedule he plays.

And as i said the redzone thing didnt surprise me. Watching a couple of games this year against Minnesota and Arizona St. with Barkley he struggled to get his team into the endzone at times. Is Luck worlds better? Probably not. But if i had the choice of those two i would definitely want Luck.

But even with all that said i think i would still like Jones or Osweiler over the rest of the pack even though RGIII's stats are very nice compared to all the QB's in question. One does have to kind of wonder why RGIII isnt the clear favorite of all of them right now going by what i researched.

Cugel
11-03-2011, 12:43 PM
Shannon Sharpe Interview: "I've never seen in all my years playing in the league, and I followed it for a number of years before I even got involved in it. I've never seen anything like this Tim Tebow situation. I've never seen a guy build up a cult following before he even steps on the field. I've never seen anything like it. And I think people automatically assume that when a guy won a Heisman Trophy and won 2 national championships that automatically equates to him being able to be successful in the National Football League. Scott you know that is simply not the case. There are Lombardi winners, there are Butkus Award Winners, Thorpe winners who now have regular jobs like most Americans do. Because it doesn't necessarily mean that what you do in college equates to the National Football League.

Now people always want to compare: "well what if Dan Reeves had given up on you after 5 games or what if John Elway wasn't John Elway?" I was a project. Now if Tim Tebow was taken in the fifth or sixth round and they said "we're going to develop this guy and somehow we want to try and get him on the field and hopefully in a couple of years he might turn out. But when you draft a guy with the first round pick there's an expectation level. If you are a first round pick he is supposed to be in the Pro-Bowl by his third year. If he's not you have wasted your pick.

They drafted this guy with the expectations of him being a franchise QB. You see when you buy a house for Nine Million Dollars normally you don't have to do major repairs to it. I'm not sanding the floors, I'm not adding any granite any marble, I'm not adding any hardwoods. I'm expecting to move into the house. Now you've got this guy who you've got nine million $ in guaranteed, and you've got to fix him.

"Shannon. If you were the Broncos coaching staff do you let him start the rest of the season?"


Sharpe: "Do you appease the fans? Because a majority of the fans still want to see this guy play. Or do you save your locker room. Because at the end of the day those 52 other guys in the locker room know what the fans don't. They seem him every day.

Is he a great guy? From all I've heard he's a great guy. Does he study hard? From all I've heard he studies hard. But at the end of the day it comes down to "can he perform. Can he do his job." Take away all the intangibles: I understand he has drive he has determination. But the bottom line: "can he throw the football accurately enough and consistently enough to move an offense up and down the field?"

This is not Florida. You don't have Percy Harvin who you throw a swing route to and he'll go 80. You don't have Louis Murphy you don't have Erin Hernandez. This is the National Football League.

And this is something they used to tell me all the time [when I arrived]. They said "Son. You're not on scholarship here. We don't have to keep you. This is a performance league here. Either you perform or you move on."

Scott: "But you don't have a very good football team here and everybody is kinda whitewashing that."


Shannon: "But let me tell you what a great QB can do. A great QB is like makeup. He can hide a lot of flaws and imperfections. Because we had a great QB in Denver for 16 years and let me tell you what he did. He took a 7th round draft pick and got him in Canton. He took an undrafted WR and got him more yards and more catches than any undrafted receiver in the history of the game and got him on the ballot for the Hall of Fame. And he took a 6th round draft pick in Terrell Davis and he was an MVP and a Super-Bowl MVP and on the ballet for the Hall of Fame. That's what a great QB can do. He can hide flaws and imperfections.

If you don't have that guy. If you have a QB who's sub-par you know what he's going to do? He's going to make the rest of your players look sub-par.

Scott: "Let me ask you. Jake Plummer got replaced on a 7-4 season and the Broncos wind up not making the playoffs. Now I look at the numbers and Plummer was 40-19. That's a guy who's winning. What happened with the Plummer situation in Denver?"


Shannon: "What happened was that he was the same thing as Tony Romo. Romo is the 2011 version of Jake Plummer. He's going to win games for you. But in crucial spots in big games he's going to make the mistake that's going to cost you the game.

And I want to say, I've never seen a QB win the SB without being in the pocket. If you can't throw from the pocket. . . And now the way the rules are set up if you can't complete 60% of your passes you're not a good QB. . . . If you can't complete 60% of your passes in the NFL in today's game you can't win.

Shannon said it better than I ever could. :ranger:

He's also got a point about a great QB making the rest of the team better. There's been a lot of hype over the years about how great the Colts players are. But, suddenly subtract Peyton Manning and they can't win a game. You could understand losing maybe 8 or 9 games, having a losing season, but going suddenly winless?

rcsodak
11-03-2011, 12:47 PM
I'm a USC fan you Crimson and Cream dork. :D

Just as bad, you dren.

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rcsodak
11-03-2011, 12:52 PM
Barkley/Jones just aren't anywhere NEAR Andrew Luck. If we have a high 1st rounder, which appears likely, we would be foolish to waste in on a QB not named Luck.

Too many holes to fill to waste it on questionable talents like Barkley/Jones, especially Jones, who is Kyle Orton with a slightly stronger arm.
Lol

How many games of jones have you watched?
Hes improved every year. Has already broken sams records. Faces tougher competition than luck.

Denver could do worse.

Imo. If denver goes D in the 1st, theres a certain Bronco qb thats not so bad.
Arm strength about like lucks, smart, pocket presence, and a winner.

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Lancane
11-03-2011, 12:52 PM
Terrific find and post Cugel! :salute:

Sharpe is dead on in his assessment of the situation. The fans have too much control, Tebow has too much control and neither are worth it if this is the result.

We need a quarterback that does the job required of him, and I keep reading posts from certain posters that are going on and on about defense, draft defense, it makes me sick because I know the truth of it all. I played the game for over fourteen years, almost exclusively on defense, though I had a short stint as a fullback, and in all my years I have never known a defensive player to be more important then the quarterback, in fact no one on the roster is more important because a quarterback is the key to victory, no matter how good a defense is...someone has to score points and that's hard to do with a craptastic general in the lineup.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Lol

How many games of jones have you watched?
Hes improved every year. Has already broken sams records. Faces tougher competition than luck.

Denver could do worse.

Imo. If denver goes D in the 1st, theres a certain Bronco qb thats not so bad.
Arm strength about like lucks, smart, pocket presence, and a winner.

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If your talking about Kellen Moore then you need to commit seppuku! He's six foot nothing and a buck something wet, he's going to be a gimmick quarterback if nothing else...he'd be broken in half in his first preseason game!

:lol:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-03-2011, 01:05 PM
If your talking about Kellen Moore then you need to commit seppuku! He's six foot nothing and a buck something wet, he's going to be a gimmick quarterback if nothing else...he'd be broken in half in his first preseason game!

:lol:

Kellen runs a 4.9. Gimmick nothing... He'll be an excellent clipboard holder. :D

Northman
11-03-2011, 02:12 PM
Shannon: "What happened was that he was the same thing as Tony Romo. Romo is the 2011 version of Jake Plummer. He's going to win games for you. But in crucial spots in big games he's going to make the mistake that's going to cost you the game.

And I want to say, I've never seen a QB win the SB without being in the pocket. If you can't throw from the pocket. . . And now the way the rules are set up if you can't complete 60% of your passes you're not a good QB. . . . If you can't complete 60% of your passes in the NFL in today's game you can't win.

Totally on the money.

As to Plummer, i said it earlier this year and agree with Shannon. You have your upper eschalon gunslingers and your lower eschalon gunslingers. Both Plummer and Romo were on my list of lower eschalon of gunslingers saying the same thing about make some plays here but cost you in others.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 02:25 PM
Totally on the money.

As to Plummer, i said it earlier this year and agree with Shannon. You have your upper eschalon gunslingers and your lower eschalon gunslingers. Both Plummer and Romo were on my list of lower eschalon of gunslingers saying the same thing about make some plays here but cost you in others.

And right now I would be happy of either one of them over what we have... Hell, right now Jimmy Clausen or Blaine Gabbert would be better.

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Lol

How many games of jones have you watched?
Hes improved every year. Has already broken sams records. Faces tougher competition than luck.

Denver could do worse.

Imo. If denver goes D in the 1st, theres a certain Bronco qb thats not so bad.
Arm strength about like lucks, smart, pocket presence, and a winner.

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Well, I'm an OU season-ticket holder, so I've seen Landry Jones play quite a lot actually. How about you RC? Dude is Kyle Orton with a slightly stronger arm. I've seen both play in person enough times to see the glaring similarities in their play.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 03:14 PM
Well, I'm an OU season-ticket holder, so I've seen Landry Jones play quite a lot actually. How about you RC? Dude is Kyle Orton with a slightly stronger arm. I've seen both play in person enough times to see the glaring similarities in their play.

So here is a question BS, one that if I was you I'd take the time to think about before answering...what did Orton look like in college? Remember, Jones hasn't been coached up and he's as good as he is, Orton is different, he had tons of coaching and looks how he does. Would it be a fair assessment to say that your being harsh while being mistaken?

Does Jones have the skill set to be a good pro? Yes... Does he need to be coached? Yes... Does he have the prototypical NFL arm? Yes... Is he considered a good leader and a smart football player by his peers and coaches? Yes...

I don't see much wrong with him to be honest, I understand that you're an OU fan, but that doesn't make your own personal assessment the right one. Your comparing him to someone who has floundered in the NFL for years, Orton was a far worse collegiate quarterback, so it's fair to say that Jones with coaching could be a great quarterback and that's more then we can say for Tebow...bottom line and end of story!

;)

echobravo
11-03-2011, 03:17 PM
Got a radical idea for you guys to consider. . . Has to do with the remainder of this season. I think the Broncos should immediately cut either Quinn or Orton (yes I know they would take a hit for it in the salary cap). Then they should pull Weber up from the practice squad. He would give the coaches something else to evaluate beyond Tebow. Another option if you will. Failing that they need to make Orton inactive for the rest of the season and be ready to throw Quinn in the fire. If he (by some miracle) proves out give him an extension. Then they would know going into the off season exactly what they (don't) have at quarterback, and draft or FA accordingly.

I know I will take a load of crap for this, but I truly believe the rest of the season should act as a job interview for next year. Notice I did not say that ANY of these guys would be a long term answer. Looks doubtful, but stranger things have happened. Time for the coaching staff to double down and really see what we have on the roster when it comes to gameplay.

"Well we didn't block, but we made up for it by not tackling." John McKay

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-03-2011, 03:52 PM
Got a radical idea for you guys to consider. . . Has to do with the remainder of this season. I think the Broncos should immediately cut either Quinn or Orton (yes I know they would take a hit for it in the salary cap). Then they should pull Weber up from the practice squad. He would give the coaches something else to evaluate beyond Tebow. Another option if you will. Failing that they need to make Orton inactive for the rest of the season and be ready to throw Quinn in the fire. If he (by some miracle) proves out give him an extension. Then they would know going into the off season exactly what they (don't) have at quarterback, and draft or FA accordingly.

I know I will take a load of crap for this, but I truly believe the rest of the season should act as a job interview for next year. Notice I did not say that ANY of these guys would be a long term answer. Looks doubtful, but stranger things have happened. Time for the coaching staff to double down and really see what we have on the roster when it comes to gameplay.

"Well we didn't block, but we made up for it by not tackling." John McKay

I actually like the idea of giving Weber a shot if Tebow doesn't improve.
He probably has the best pre season QB rating in the history of the NFL. :laugh:

Cugel
11-03-2011, 04:29 PM
I actually like the idea of giving Weber a shot if Tebow doesn't improve.
He probably has the best pre season QB rating in the history of the NFL. :laugh:

Now you've hurt the feelings of all the current dry-wall installers who he burned with his accurate throws! :laugh:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-03-2011, 04:32 PM
Now you've hurt the feelings of all the current dry-wall installers who he burned with his accurate throws! :laugh:

It was actually a "throw", singular. I believe it went for 95 yards. Unfortunately it didn't result in a TD, so that may prevent his QB rating from the highest possible mark. :D

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 05:37 PM
So here is a question BS, one that if I was you I'd take the time to think about before answering...what did Orton look like in college? Remember, Jones hasn't been coached up and he's as good as he is, Orton is different, he had tons of coaching and looks how he does. Would it be a fair assessment to say that your being harsh while being mistaken?

Does Jones have the skill set to be a good pro? Yes... Does he need to be coached? Yes... Does he have the prototypical NFL arm? Yes... Is he considered a good leader and a smart football player by his peers and coaches? Yes...

I don't see much wrong with him to be honest, I understand that you're an OU fan, but that doesn't make your own personal assessment the right one. Your comparing him to someone who has floundered in the NFL for years, Orton was a far worse collegiate quarterback, so it's fair to say that Jones with coaching could be a great quarterback and that's more then we can say for Tebow...bottom line and end of story!

;)

Ummm no, Orton was actually pretty solid in college. He was at one time a Heisman candidate as well. What do you mean has Jones been coached up? Of course he has, his OC is Josh Huepel, who was calling his own plays at OU when they won a National Championship. I'm not an OU fan. I am a season-ticket holder.

I have watched all their good QBs come and go. Huepel, White, Thompson, Bomar, Bradford, Jones, others. Huepel had all the intangibles you would ever want in a QB but lacked the arm strength. White had all the arm and accuracy in the world but lacked the health and intelligence to be an NFL QB. Bomar was physically-gifted but a jackass. Bradford was the real deal, but also operated a spread offense. Jones has the arm, lacks mobility, but more importantly is NOT a leader on the field. He looks a lot like Kyle Orton did at Purdue. Makes mistakes at critical moments. Is not good when playing from behind. I am telling you I've seen him play quite a lot in person to make this assessment.

When the "experts" you acknowledge like Kiper and others were gushing over Jimmy Clausen I was asking "what has he done to warrant this?" Name me 1 key moment Clausen had IN GAME to justify his worship...

The experts break down workouts, stats, etc, etc, and evaluate players as a whole. I watch games and tell you what I see. Luck has all the ability in the world. He can literally do what he wants on the football field. He is head and shoulders better than the other guys right now.

And to CoachChaz, I have watched Luck play every televised game this year and last, so I've seen quite a bit of him as well.

I think Barkley is better than Jones but behind Luck. I REALLY like Brandon Weeden. He is accurate, smart, big, athletic, and confident. He responds well under pressure and has shown a very good ability to bring his team back when behind. I wouldn't mind at all if we got Weeden in the 3rd or 4th round and started him for a few years. He's 28, you cuold get 7-10 years out of him.

But if we use a top 5 pick on Matt Barkley or Landry Jones then it will be a wasted pick that will hurt this franchise. I am on record saying it now. I hope that we never have to find out but if we do there is ZERO doubt in my mind that either guy is not worth a top 20 pick.

Cugel
11-03-2011, 06:04 PM
Ummm no, Orton was actually pretty solid in college. He was at one time a Heisman candidate as well.

I don't watch nearly as much college football as you so I'm not going to rate these guys. But Kyle Orton was a little regarded 4th round pick for a reason. If it wasn't for Rex Grossman flaming out in Chicago and giving Orton a chance to be the starter nobody would ever have heard of him.

He'd be about as famous as Stephan LeFlors, who was also drafted that same year in the 4th round a few picks after Orton by Carolina.

I don't know what Barkley will do, but the experts are projecting him as a 1st round pick, which is WILDLY different than the consensus that Orton was an after-thought who's now lucky to have a job at all in the NFL. Andrew Walter and David Greene who were drafted a round ahead of him are both long gone. But they, as well as Charlie Frye were all more highly regarded than Orton, who was the 7th QB taken; also after Alex Smith, Aaron Rogers and Jason Campbell (the only QBs that year who were any good were 1st rounders). :ranger:

Lancane
11-03-2011, 06:07 PM
Ummm no, Orton was actually pretty solid in college. He was at one time a Heisman candidate as well. What do you mean has Jones been coached up? Of course he has, his OC is Josh Huepel, who was calling his own plays at OU when they won a National Championship. I'm not an OU fan. I am a season-ticket holder.

I have watched all their good QBs come and go. Huepel, White, Thompson, Bomar, Bradford, Jones, others. Huepel had all the intangibles you would ever want in a QB but lacked the arm strength. White had all the arm and accuracy in the world but lacked the health and intelligence to be an NFL QB. Bomar was physically-gifted but a jackass. Bradford was the real deal, but also operated a spread offense. Jones has the arm, lacks mobility, but more importantly is NOT a leader on the field. He looks a lot like Kyle Orton did at Purdue. Makes mistakes at critical moments. Is not good when playing from behind. I am telling you I've seen him play quite a lot in person to make this assessment.

When the "experts" you acknowledge like Kiper and others were gushing over Jimmy Clausen I was asking "what has he done to warrant this?" Name me 1 key moment Clausen had IN GAME to justify his worship...

The experts break down workouts, stats, etc, etc, and evaluate players as a whole. I watch games and tell you what I see. Luck has all the ability in the world. He can literally do what he wants on the football field. He is head and shoulders better than the other guys right now.

And to CoachChaz, I have watched Luck play every televised game this year and last, so I've seen quite a bit of him as well.

I think Barkley is better than Jones but behind Luck. I REALLY like Brandon Weeden. He is accurate, smart, big, athletic, and confident. He responds well under pressure and has shown a very good ability to bring his team back when behind. I wouldn't mind at all if we got Weeden in the 3rd or 4th round and started him for a few years. He's 28, you cuold get 7-10 years out of him.

But if we use a top 5 pick on Matt Barkley or Landry Jones then it will be a wasted pick that will hurt this franchise. I am on record saying it now. I hope that we never have to find out but if we do there is ZERO doubt in my mind that either guy is not worth a top 20 pick.

Orton's collegiate career was more hype then anything else, even worse then Clausen. He was yanked out of games by the coaching staff several times...that's why I find it ironic that his pro career is much the same, but all in all, he's improved, his accuracy at times was about as feeble as Jeff George's, there is a reason he was a third round pick and not a first, it sure wasn't because he was up for the Heisman.

I don't admire Mel 'hair helmet' Kiper, I dislike the sorry S.O.B. In fact, if you ask anyone who knows me, he's the one draft expert that I do not even listen to because he is a fool. But I do listen to Mayock, and he deserves to be respected, the man has earned his stripes and knows more about football players then you or I ever will, and when he says that Landry Jones and Matt Barkley are pro ready quarterbacks with all the intangibles...well, I'll believe him.

Slick
11-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Does Jones operate strictly out of the shotgun Stud? Every highlights video I've watched makes it seem that way.

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 07:09 PM
Does Jones operate strictly out of the shotgun Stud? Every highlights video I've watched makes it seem that way.

Most of the time yes. OU runs a borked offense where they go to the line, the offensive coaching staff then looks at the defensive alignment, then they call a play into Landry Jones if they want to make a change.

It's really annoying. The offense lines up, acts like they're going to snap, then Jones walks back towards the sideline and gets direction from the OC. THEN they snap it or call an audible.

But to answer your question, I would say he is about 80% out of shotgun, and when he isn't you can almost assure yourself it's going to be a run. Their offense is as predictable as ours. And he plays a LOT like Kyle Orton, lacks fire and on-field leadership. Just seems robotic to me. Goes through the motions. His arm is strong though.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 07:27 PM
Most of the time yes. OU runs a borked offense where they go to the line, the offensive coaching staff then looks at the defensive alignment, then they call a play into Landry Jones if they want to make a change.

It's really annoying. The offense lines up, acts like they're going to snap, then Jones walks back towards the sideline and gets direction from the OC. THEN they snap it or call an audible.

But to answer your question, I would say he is about 80% out of shotgun, and when he isn't you can almost assure yourself it's going to be a run. Their offense is as predictable as ours. And he plays a LOT like Kyle Orton, lacks fire and on-field leadership. Just seems robotic to me. Goes through the motions. His arm is strong though.

BS, if we ignored quarterbacks because they were in a shotgun heavy ran offenses or even spread option offenses then there wouldn't be hardly any franchise quarterbacks in the NFL, even if the way OU runs their offense is by our standards disagreeable, we can not overlook someone who is capable of being another Roethlisberger, Cutler, Rivers, McNabb or Rodgers, the very thought that we would for the sake of a few flaws is mind boggling. Because all those mentioned had flaws, there is a far lesser chance of Foles, Tannehill and Weeden being franchise quarterbacks then anyone of those you've made arguments against.

I for one would be happy as hell with Barkley or Jones in a Bronco's uniform.

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 09:39 PM
That's my point Lan... I haven't seen ANYTHING out of Jones that makes me believe he is another Big Ben, Aaron Rodgers, or Phillip Rivers. I haven't even seen anything out of him that makes me believe he is as good as Sam Bradford, who is struggling mightily even when healthy.

I wouldn't mind him so much if he came late in the 1st round, but not with a top 5 draft pick. That is just a serious over-reach. He just isn't good enough to warrant that. Neither is Barkley.

Luck, however, obviously is.

I can only call it how I see it. Jones isn't a playmaker when the chips are down. He has Orton-syndrome. I would much prefer Weeden a round or 2 later in the draft. If you haven't gotten to see Brandon Weeden play, check out an Oklahoma State game, they play OU in a few weeks, should be a great one. He is a very good QB.

BroncoStud
11-03-2011, 09:45 PM
By the way, OU has been SO bad in the redzone this year that they now take out Landry Jones and put in the 3rd stringer... Sound familiar?