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Shazam!
11-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Guys... I know we're all on the same page, meaning disgusted.

Here's my question.

Tim Tebow has been pretty bad... we all know this, he must get better.

It isn't ALL about how bad Tim has played. The lockout hurt him bad.

Again, I'm NOT saying he doesn't have a hand in Denver's struggles. What I AM saying is if Denver Drafted a young QB and he was starting, the results would likely be the same. He'd be going through growing pains and making a ton of mistakes. He'd struggle mightily. Manning was awful in his first year (I'm NOT NOT comparing Tim to Peyton in any way).

How is this situation any different from Tim Tebow's play at this time?

This team is TERRIBLE, and all their holes are obvious to all. The place they're in isn't all Tim's fault.

Is this theory wrong?

weazel
11-01-2011, 05:53 PM
they would be in the same boat... but you like to see a guy progressing not regressing.

HORSEPOWER 56
11-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Guys... I know we're all on the same page, meaning disgusted.

Here's my question.

Tim Tebow has been pretty bad... we all know this, he must get better.

It isn't ALL about how bad Tim has played. The lockout hurt him bad.

Again, I'm NOT saying he doesn't have a hand in Denver's struggles. What I AM saying is if Denver Drafted a young QB and he was starting, the results would likely be the same. He'd be going through growing pains and making a ton of mistakes. He'd struggle mightily. Manning was awful in his first year (I'm NOT NOT comparing Tim to Peyton in any way).

How is this situation any different from Tim Tebow's play at this time?

This team is TERRIBLE, and all their holes are obvious to all. The place they're in isn't all Tim's fault.

Is this theory wrong?

No, you're right on the money. For some reason, QBs are held to a different standard these days than ever before, especially if their name is Tebow. Lots of young QBs don't particularly play well in their first several starts and are held to some ridiculously historically revisionist standard about other QBs who played well as rookies (where if you look at the facts, very few do). I'm all for starting a rookie QB, especially one who a 1st round pick was spent on, but I also understand there are going to be some major bumps along the way.

BigDaddyBronco
11-01-2011, 06:03 PM
Tebow still looks way worse than he did at the end of last season. Could be the lockout, could be playcalling, could be him, who knows.

Tned
11-01-2011, 06:05 PM
Guys... I know we're all on the same page, meaning disgusted.

Here's my question.

Tim Tebow has been pretty bad... we all know this, he must get better.

It isn't ALL about how bad Tim has played. The lockout hurt him bad.

Again, I'm NOT saying he doesn't have a hand in Denver's struggles. What I AM saying is if Denver Drafted a young QB and he was starting, the results would likely be the same. He'd be going through growing pains and making a ton of mistakes. He'd struggle mightily. Manning was awful in his first year (I'm NOT NOT comparing Tim to Peyton in any way).

How is this situation any different from Tim Tebow's play at this time?

This team is TERRIBLE, and all their holes are obvious to all. The place they're in isn't all Tim's fault.

Is this theory wrong?

Nope, you're not wrong. More than anything, it's the national scrutiny and attention, and the backlash against the Tebow lovers that have made this bigger than it really is.

He's a young QB under MASSIVE national scrutiny and he's struggling. Shouldn't be as big an issue as it is.

Northman
11-01-2011, 06:05 PM
Your right and wrong Shaz. The team is bad in many areas but so is Tebow right now.

The problem though is if the lockout hurt Tebow than did it not hurt Orton? I mean shit, i hate defending Orton here but lets be fair with the criticisms. If the team is bad than its kind of hard to shit all over Orton and then turn around and make excuses for Tim.

At the end of the day its going to be important for Tebow to improve as a QB. Its not about him pulling out magical wins at this point, at least for me. We know he is a gamer and an athlete. What some of us want to see is his improvement as a NFL QB and whether or not he can be the future at that position. Our Oline is ranked middle of the league right now while some others are far worse. So any woes on the Oline is doubled by Tim's inability to get rid of the ball fast enough.

Point is, there are some holes on the team but lets be fair when dishing out the excuses for one particular position. Not everything that is going on with the team is the reason why Tebow is failing to execute on his end.

Buff
11-01-2011, 06:06 PM
He just doesn't look like he has the ability to play at this level. You could give me all the development time in the world, and I'd never turn into a decent NFL starter. I sort of get the same impression with Tim. He just can't seem to pass efficiently or accurately enough to make it at this level.

A rookie starter would struggle, but those struggles would be a product of bad reads and mental mistakes more than a physical inability to play the position. With Tebow I get the impression that no amount of time is going to turn him into an NFL QB.

Ravage!!!
11-01-2011, 06:06 PM
Could actually be that since we are playing teams in early-to-mid season that they are taking the games a bit more seriously than those we played at the end of the year last season... and actually game planned specifically for Tebow.

We still have a game or so before teams REALLY have a handle on TT. :tsk:

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 06:07 PM
Progress, that is what we all would be looking for. Is there any progression at all. That is why saying he needs to benched at 2 starts in dumb because like you said a top prospect QB would most likely be in same boat. I think after another 3-4 games or so if you dont see progress then its just not going to happen for him. Because given several weeks you would see timing with WR getting better. You would not see so many balls in the stands over WR heads.

I know his style of play is different and players need to get use to that, like OL and WR. A lot more pressure on them since TT will keep plays alive longer so WR will still need to fight to get open after normal play route. OL need to play better to protect w/o getting penalties.

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Could actually be that since we are playing teams in early-to-mid season that they are taking the games a bit more seriously than those we played at the end of the year last season... and actually game planned specifically for Tebow.

We still have a game or so before teams REALLY have a handle on TT. :tsk:

Teams we played at end of last year were all aiming for playoff. Raiders, Chargers, and Texas. I think they all had WC chance against the Ravens. It was all close I believe.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 06:12 PM
Tebow was hurt by the lockout, the addition of a new coaching staff, lack of off-season, the instillation of a new offensive scheme and so on and so forth.

Such arguments have pretty much been put to rest. Tebow isn't the only quarterback that went through the lockout, nor for that matter a coaching or offensive system change. Because McCoy, Bradford, Newton, Gabbert, Dalton and Ponder all underwent coaching changes and offensive changes, so did Alex Smith in San Francisco, and all went through the lockout. And let's be honest, Denver's offense didn't really change, it's the same system...just dumbed down.

If anything, Tebow should have had a leg up on everyone mentioned above, he's hasn't though...he regressed and looks to be the next Jim Druckenmiller.

People can keep making all the excuses in the world for him, that won't change the fact of what we're seeing.

Dzone
11-01-2011, 06:13 PM
Hire Dennison and fire Foxy. Dennison has as much NFL coaching experience as Jim Harbaugh. Fox is not the man for this team. Fox brings back bad memories of Wade Phillips

T.K.O.
11-01-2011, 06:14 PM
Teams we played at end of last year were all aiming for playoff. Raiders, Chargers, and Texas. I think they all had WC chance against the Ravens. It was all close I believe.

so far he's beat the teams he is supposed to beat (no matter how lucky the win)
if he improves over the next couple weeks...he will continue to beat the teams he should.
unfortunately,there are'nt that many teams left on the schedule we should expect a win.
I,like every other Bronco fan , wish the team was good enough to expect a win every week BUT....that's just not the case right now.:salute:

T.K.O.
11-01-2011, 06:17 PM
The problem though is if the lockout hurt Tebow than did it not hurt Orton? I mean shit, i hate defending Orton here but lets be fair with the criticisms. If the team is bad than its kind of hard to shit all over Orton and then turn around and make excuses for Tim.

.

I think it hurt both of them....they have both looked like they need another offseason or 2:D

hotcarl
11-01-2011, 09:41 PM
just wanted to drop in and say who gives a shit. you spend this much time thinking about this? you must be like 10, right? If so great. If not, k$ll yo$&se$f or soen dfjjdjj. My gyung. Fog otqllk dk jacked up FDA mm u iPod

Shazam!
11-01-2011, 09:45 PM
Another riveting, fascinating contribution by hotcarl.

Locnar
11-01-2011, 10:21 PM
Tebow was hurt by the lockout, the addition of a new coaching staff, lack of off-season, the instillation of a new offensive scheme and so on and so forth.

Such arguments have pretty much been put to rest. Tebow isn't the only quarterback that went through the lockout, nor for that matter a coaching or offensive system change. Because McCoy, Bradford, Newton, Gabbert, Dalton and Ponder all underwent coaching changes and offensive changes, so did Alex Smith in San Francisco, and all went through the lockout. And let's be honest, Denver's offense didn't really change, it's the same system...just dumbed down.

If anything, Tebow should have had a leg up on everyone mentioned above, he's hasn't though...he regressed and looks to be the next Jim Druckenmiller.

People can keep making all the excuses in the world for him, that won't change the fact of what we're seeing.

I agree 100% with this. Christian Ponder in his second start looked light years ahead of Tebow. Even though he isn't the greatest on his deep balls, he can thread the needle on a 10 yard slant. Tebow could hit that slant maybe 3 out of 10 tries.. Our coaches wouldn't alow him to do very many slant routes because they know the route would get jumped in a heartbeat for a pick 6.

NorCalBronco7
11-01-2011, 11:31 PM
Guys... I know we're all on the same page, meaning disgusted.

Here's my question.

Tim Tebow has been pretty bad... we all know this, he must get better.

It isn't ALL about how bad Tim has played. The lockout hurt him bad.

Again, I'm NOT saying he doesn't have a hand in Denver's struggles. What I AM saying is if Denver Drafted a young QB and he was starting, the results would likely be the same. He'd be going through growing pains and making a ton of mistakes. He'd struggle mightily. Manning was awful in his first year (I'm NOT NOT comparing Tim to Peyton in any way).

How is this situation any different from Tim Tebow's play at this time?

This team is TERRIBLE, and all their holes are obvious to all. The place they're in isn't all Tim's fault.

Is this theory wrong?

Its because with every start, all the fears many of us had about Tebow pre-draft are looking more true.

His abiltity to read a defense, throwing motion, footwork, accuracy, "tuck and run" mentality etc....are all major concerns that collectively outweighed prospects like Peyton......by a ton.

The situations different because Tebows different. Tebows as raw as any Qb Ive seen. Hes not a protypical NFL Qb and most likely never will be. What other 1st round Qbs (which affords Tebow plenty of time to play) had all the red flags hes had? Future franchise Qbs dont completely lack basic fundamentals. Tebow does.

But all this wouldnt matter if Tebow would just show some improvement.

Flex040679
11-02-2011, 01:00 AM
I just see spoiled rotten football fans in Denver who are impatient and since the bronco nation has been so good for so long... things take time! OMG tebow didn't score 50 in his two starts!!! LYNCH him!!

Idiots..... duh duh what about Orton?? Oh you mean 5-21 in the last 26 starts Orton? Hes a loser.... that's what he does... he loses

This is a bad team... if Willis plays against the Raiders they'll win against Oakland this weekend... THEN WHAT??? Tebow "ye great" again?

Put the pacifier down!!!

tomjonesrocks
11-02-2011, 01:22 AM
OK, I am not anti-Tebow, but I am DONE with the "lockout" excuse.

Tebow can't throw the GOD DAMN ball on target. Couldn't last year, Can't this year.

What does that have to do with coaching and learning the ******* playbook?

And by the way, for his size and physique, he throws the ball like a girl. Can that be fixed with coaching?

Lancane
11-02-2011, 01:28 AM
I just see spoiled rotten football fans in Denver who are impatient and since the bronco nation has been so good for so long... things take time! OMG tebow didn't score 50 in his two starts!!! LYNCH him!!

Idiots..... duh duh what about Orton?? Oh you mean 5-21 in the last 26 starts Orton? Hes a loser.... that's what he does... he loses

This is a bad team... if Willis plays against the Raiders they'll win against Oakland this weekend... THEN WHAT??? Tebow "ye great" again?

Put the pacifier down!!!

The only idiots on here are the ones that decide they know best, and that people should agree with their opinions. And if they don't, then they act like twelve year old school girls who's daddy didn't buy them everything they ever wanted. Sound familiar?

Look, this is a fan forum...there is no rules or laws that state we must agree on everything, it just so happens that plenty of us agree on this and there are those who don't, several of them are even friends with one another. That's the way it is, and come in a couple weeks we'll know more then likely one was or another who is right or wrong. Even those former players who supported Tebow have begun to back off with how bad he looks, it's only natural since he looks like crap! But coming onto here, a newbie, talking trash and calling names won't earn any respect even from the Tebow supporters other then his radical fanboys.

If you shut up and read, you'd understand that people don't care about the score, it's the fact that he can't play quarterback, period - you should never have to teach a pro quarterback the basic fundamentals of the position, like how to freaking correctly throw the damn ball. He's shown so little promise that his biggest supporter, Elway has been utterly disgusted with him. We get that you like him, but coming on to the boards acting like that won't do you any favors. Either learn to respect the forums, posting logical posts that are not riddled with attacks or leave the boards in peace and be on your merry way before your perma-banned.

;)