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View Full Version : So...no talk of QB, what else do we need??



echobravo
11-01-2011, 01:26 PM
Every other thread on this forum seems to be dedicated to the quarterback position. All well and good I suppose, but this team needs a lot more than a QB. There are holes up and down this roster. Here is your chance to tell everyone who you would cut, who you would seek in free agency and who you would draft. This should be done based on the assumption that SOMETHING will be settled about the QB position in the off season.

So here goes. This team needs a running back or two. I would get rid of Moreno. Fill in through the draft, even if the back seems like a project low-round guy. We need beef in the d-line and for the love of god some depth please. As an aside I would note that being a sucky young team is not nearly as bad as being a sucky old team, just sayin.:rant:

dogfish
11-01-2011, 01:27 PM
everything else. . . :lol:

BroncoNut
11-01-2011, 01:31 PM
unfortunately Beef will not be available to play on the d-line as he is a salesman and is raising a family in FL :pound:

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 01:32 PM
Every other thread on this forum seems to be dedicated to the quarterback position. All well and good I suppose, but this team needs a lot more than a QB. There are holes up and down this roster. Here is your chance to tell everyone who you would cut, who you would seek in free agency and who you would draft. This should be done based on the assumption that SOMETHING will be settled about the QB position in the off season.

So here goes. This team needs a running back or two. I would get rid of Moreno. Fill in through the draft, even if the back seems like a project low-round guy. We need beef in the d-line and for the love of god some depth please. As an aside I would note that being a sucky young team is not nearly as bad as being a sucky old team, just sayin.:rant:


RB, CB, DT, LB, and OL

Moreno sucks, McGahee cant handle this work load.
Goodman sucks, Vaugn sucks
Bunkley can stay Thomas sucks, Warren hurt, Unrein, McBean or whoever all suck
LB-need some play makers beside Miller. Need a great MLB, I hope Irving becomes that and Williams maybe.
OL-need replacement for Beadles and move Franklin to LG.
Our young safeties need to develop quicker.

BeefStew25
11-01-2011, 01:32 PM
unfortunately Beef will not be available to play on the d-line as he is a salesman and is raising a family in FL :pound:

Holy Diver and I retired.

BroncoNut
11-01-2011, 01:33 PM
Holy Diver and I retired.

hasn't returned my calls.

Cugel
11-01-2011, 02:07 PM
Look at this roster and there's about 5 or 6 guys on the current roster who might be starters for a serious Super Bowl run in 3 or 4 years time.

Defense: Champ Bailey and Von Miller. They'd probably have to move Champ to S by then. The other 9 are scrubs or worse. Guys like Woodyard and DJ are really backups on a good team. Same thing with Bunkley and Ayers. Rest of the DL are scrubs to horrible. No other CBs and safeties worth mentioning.

Offense: Clady, Orlando Franklin (maybe if he continues to improve) and possibly Kuper. Maybe Eric Decker who looks like a decent slot receiver. That's it.

So, that's 6 starters out of 22, which means they have to replace 16 starters over the next 2 years. That's a LOT of holes to fill!

QB is only the biggest of those holes.

drewloc
11-01-2011, 02:08 PM
everything else. . . :lol:

Hey now! I'm actually satisfied with the Kicker and Punter! :salute:

Mike
11-01-2011, 02:09 PM
What don't we need. Probably easier to come up with that list.


You know it is bad when the first thing you think of is your damned kicker and punter though.

Prater, Colquitt, Miller, Decker, Clady, Kuper, give Franklin/D Thomas/Walton more time, Champ for now. Everything else is up for evaluation.

Shazam!
11-01-2011, 03:27 PM
Pffft. YOU NAME IT.

Truth is this team is a !@#$ING WRECK thanks to Josh McDaniels.

It's easy to blame Tebow for not being better, but the truth is this team is in complete shambles.

The jury is still out on Tebow but I guarantee no matter the outcome this year, Denver will AGGRESSIVELY PURSUE A QB IN THE DRAFT.

This team has so many holes in it STARTING WITH RB and all along the DLine I don't know where to begin.

I'm actually infuriated (in case you can't figure that out) at the state of this team. Makes me wonder if Fox and Elway regret taking their positions and not realizing just how bad the Denver Broncos REALLY ARE.

Lowest point in the history of my beloved team since before I was born.

It's really pathetic. We wait all year for football and the team is abysmal.

Sigh... : (

Fullback32
11-01-2011, 03:33 PM
Maybe they can convince the Raiders that Tebow is their answer and get a couple first rounders for him. Wait...they don't have any left to give. Dumb Raiders...hehe.

O-Line is a must AFTER QB. Last thing you want is a first round QB to get pummeled into some semblence of David Carr wearing a Broncos uniform.

UnderArmour
11-01-2011, 03:37 PM
Cornerback is probably the biggest need right now. Goodman is mediocre and getting older and our nickel corner revolving door isn't very good either. Losing Squid to injury really hurt. Aside from that, we just need talent across the board. We need to draft the best player available at every slot in the draft because we need an infusion of talent.

DenBronx
11-01-2011, 03:38 PM
Well for starters. I would sign Matt Forte in the offseason.

If the Colts draft Luck then maybe give them a call and send a 2nd rounder for Peyton Manning. He will play again and this situation reminds me of John Lynch. The Bucs didnt have faith he would return 100% and he did.

Possibly go after M. Colston as well. There are tons of free agent WRs this offseason, maybe the most big names in history. And Reggie Wayne, Mannings favorite target is a FA.

That would put a shot of adrenaline in our offense right away.


Let P. Manning mentor Tebow like he should be mentored.

BORDERLINE
11-01-2011, 03:43 PM
O-Line is first and then a RB who can actually RUN, We need a fast guy back there no doubt. Moreno should be gone he can't get sh** right. Willis is a power runner there is space for him to bounce it outside on some runs but he doesn't because he is not fast enough. Willis get's what he can and that's more than I can say for Moreno.

On defense we need a Solid DT, A Huge big a** guy that can clog the middle of the line point blank. We need a Corner maybe 2. Whilhite/Harris/vaughn just won't cut it.

Ravage!!!
11-01-2011, 03:46 PM
:lol: Can you imagine Manning trying to mentor Tebow???

Manning: What do you mean, where is the spread?

Buff
11-01-2011, 03:47 PM
We have drafted and/or signed like 15 safeties in the last few years and none of them can play. Not only is that annoying, it's also an indication that maybe we ought to build the front 7 before we worry about the secondary.

There are holes at virtually every position, but my priorities in order of importance would be: DT, OG, C, RB, LB, DB, OT, WR (aside from QB).

Jsteve01
11-01-2011, 03:47 PM
RB, CB, DT, LB, and OL

Moreno sucks, McGahee cant handle this work load.
Goodman sucks, Vaugn sucks
Bunkley can stay Thomas sucks, Warren hurt, Unrein, McBean or whoever all suck
LB-need some play makers beside Miller. Need a great MLB, I hope Irving becomes that and Williams maybe.
OL-need replacement for Beadles and move Franklin to LT.
Our young safeties need to develop quicker.

Im still attempting to discover why our tackles are taking so much heat. Since the Gashing by the Raiders, we've been solid. Thomas had 8 tackles vs the Phins. McBean has a couple of sacks this year.

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 03:53 PM
Im still attempting to discover why our tackles are taking so much heat. Since the Gashing by the Raiders, we've been solid. Thomas had 8 tackles vs the Phins. McBean has a couple of sacks this year.

Because we have no dominance a lot of tackles are also made by LB. We have no penetrating DT. Mays stepped it up against the bengals for a lot of run stopping.

Cugel
11-01-2011, 03:57 PM
Because we have no dominance a lot of tackles are also made by LB. We have no penetrating DT. Mays stepped it up against the bengals for a lot of run stopping.

Nailed it. :coffee:

The Broncos desperately need a penetrating DT, like say. . . Marcel Dareus was projected to be in the draft. :rolleyes:

Cugel
11-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Phidelt218 View Post
RB, CB, DT, LB, and OL

Moreno sucks, McGahee cant handle this work load.
Goodman sucks, Vaugn sucks
Bunkley can stay Thomas sucks, Warren hurt, Unrein, McBean or whoever all suck
LB-need some play makers beside Miller. Need a great MLB, I hope Irving becomes that and Williams maybe.

OL-need replacement for Beadles and move Franklin to LT.

Our young safeties need to develop quicker.

Why would they move Franklin to LT when Ryan Clady is the best player on their entire offense? He's a solid LT for the next 8 years or so. Just leave him there.

Is it because you think they need to protect Tebow's blind side and he's left handed?

That's idiotic! Tebow won't even be on the roster next season. In fact he's probably going to start 1 or 2 more games this year and that will be all for the Tim Tebow experiment!

John Fox has pointedly signaled that he's about had it with Tebow. He's said he's the starter "for now" and pointedly refused to name him the starter for 2 weeks from now. And he bluntly said that he needs to see some immediate improvement from Tebow.

My guess is that if Tebow stinks in Oakland like he did against Detroit he will be benched for the KC game. In fact, if he stinks as bad as he did versus the Lions he might be benched in the 2nd half of the Raiders game.

It's fish or cut bait time for Tim Tebow. Scream all you want to Teboners. That's just how it's going to be.

You don't move Clady around to protect Tebow for the next two games and then have to move him back when a right-handed QB like Quinn or Orton comes back in to finish the season!

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 04:01 PM
Why would they move Franklin to LT when Ryan Clady is the best player on their entire offense? He's a solid LT for the next 8 years or so. Just leave him there.

Is it because you think they need to protect Tebow's blind side and he's left handed?

That's idiotic! Tebow won't even be on the roster next season. In fact he's probably going to start 1 or 2 more games this year and that will be all for the Tim Tebow experiment! You don't move Clady around to protect Tebow for the next two games and then have to move him back when a right-handed QB like Quinn or Orton comes back in to finish the season!

I meant Left Guard.

Thanks for catching that typo. Big one.

G_Money
11-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Positions that need to be solved for 2012:

QB – self-evident. Tebow has an Everest-type hill to climb to be The Man in 2012.
RT – Franklin isn’t it, so get one
C – Walton might get another year to start, but I’d get a center anyway to groom.
RB – McGahee is 65 in RB years, and we don’t have a reliable #2. Better get a back.
FB – if we plan to use one offensively, it probably shouldn’t be a converted LB. If not, maybe he stays.
WR (1-2) – Decker can’t catch everything, and DT has yet to do much of anything. Royal will be gone.
TE (1) – Whether we re-sign Fells or go somewhere else, Julius Thomas and Virgil Green aren’t ready.
CB (opposite Champ) – Goodman needs to GO
Nickel CB – if it isn’t Harris (who I like for it) then we need another. Might as well get one.
MLB – maybe we go with Joe Mays, but he’s a 2-down backer at best, and we won’t have both Woodyard and DJ for passing downs next year
DT (2) – Bunkley might be back, but if not we need at least 2 guys for the rotation

Positions that are okay for 2012:

LT – Clady is still good here
LG – Franklin can go here
RG – still have Kuper under contract
SLB – Von Miller is the man here for the foreseeable future.
WLB - we’ll need to make a choice between DJ and Woodyard, but either way that position should be manned
CB – Champ had his contract renewed, he’s here.
SS – Dawkins will be back and QC will have another year to get better
FS – Moore is gonna get a shot to succeed here, as will QC, and if neither can…crap…
DE (2) – We’re paying Elvis too much to even think about replacing him, and Ayers has been improving this year. I think we stand pat unless there’s a major upgrade available.

When you consider that Kuper, Clady, Dawkins and Ayers will be FAs after 2012 or retired (I believe)…

We will need more revamps for 2013. It’s NOT pretty.

My ever-changing positional mock draft now goes 1) QB, 2) RT, 3) C [unless Wells wants to leave the world champs for the basement], 4) WR

FA needs to then address CB, DT (Bunkley + who?), TE (Fells?), RB…

I wonder how hard it’s gonna be to get good players to come into this mess before we get a few more foundational players set?

~G

dogfish
11-01-2011, 04:11 PM
Hey now! I'm actually satisfied with the Kicker and Punter! :salute:

yea, i guess i kinda forgot about them. . .

do they even count?

:confused:

dogfish
11-01-2011, 04:13 PM
We have drafted and/or signed like 15 safeties in the last few years and none of them can play. Not only is that annoying, it's also an indication that maybe we ought to build the front 7 before we worry about the secondary.


indeed-- furthermore, it's an indication that we need to get somebody in here that can actually draft. . . until that happens, basically nothing else we do matters. . .

Cugel
11-01-2011, 04:18 PM
My ever-changing positional mock draft now goes 1) QB, 2) RT, 3) C [unless Wells wants to leave the world champs for the basement], 4) WR

FA needs to then address CB, DT (Bunkley + who?), TE (Fells?), RB…

I wonder how hard it’s gonna be to get good players to come into this mess before we get a few more foundational players set?

You've ignored the most crying need on the entire team outside QB, and that's DT.

Don't worry. You're in good company. The Broncos have ignored it for the last 10 years too. :ranger:

G_Money
11-01-2011, 04:37 PM
You've ignored the most crying need on the entire team outside QB, and that's DT.

Don't worry. You're in good company. The Broncos have ignored it for the last 10 years too. :ranger:


DT (2) – Bunkley might be back, but if not we need at least 2 guys for the rotation



FA needs to then address CB, DT (Bunkley + who?), TE (Fells?), RB…


Did you mean I ignored it in the draft? It's not a deep draft for that (unlike last year, coughcough) and we need a QB and a RT, two things that require early picks. If we don't have anyone available we like at RT I would go DT if there's a worthy pick. I was screaming for a DT in the draft last year, and then in FA. Ask hoptard, he and I were gonna go drinking after the aggravating 2nd day of the draft. :tsk:

In my wishlist a couple weeks ago I had RT first and DT second, simply because if Tebow was gonna work out then he'd need a LT drafted to play RT and protect his blindside.

If Tebow's not the guy then the RT doesn't have to be as spectacular, but that 1st round pick gets used on a QB instead.

I'm the LAST guy to ignore DT, but sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. Go sign Bunkley and Garay and I can live with some of the other mess behind them.

~G

sneakers
11-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Our punter is pretty solid.

Nick
11-01-2011, 06:29 PM
HB - Moreno is horrible and McGahee is not getting younger and will not carry the load.

FB - I would love to have an old fashioned FB in here to help with run blocking and pass protection a lot more.

DB - Bailey is not getting younger and depth is horrid.

DT - everyone sucks and bunkley gets hurt when you think the other person is going to.

MLB- If they can add a solid LB in middle that would be nasty.

DE - We need a legit prototypical quality DE.

OT- I agree with people mentioning bring Franklin inside and would be a quick fix on the line.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 06:43 PM
Besides quarterback which is a glaring need at this point... I'd say Denver is between a rock and a hard place altogether. We have too many needs all around, and not enough answers.

I know what I would do, but as to what Denver can or can not... We have dropped even more, if you can believe it, in being a desirable destination for free agents. Which I never thought possible, but that is but one crux of many.

Denver needs to trim the roster, we have too many underachievers taking up roster spots. And I could make a fair, well thought out argument for the need at every position except for at the tight end position.

QB, RB, FB, WR, OL, DL, LB and CB should be the focal points for Denver.

dogfish
11-01-2011, 06:46 PM
so, basically everything but TE and safety-- and we're really not good there either. . .


okay then. . . :lol:

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 06:49 PM
so, basically everything but TE and safety-- and we're really not good there either. . .


okay then. . . :lol:

and kickers.

Chris90210
11-02-2011, 07:37 AM
any position that has one of the following words
"back"
"tackle"
"safety"

Lancane
11-02-2011, 07:41 AM
any position that has one of the following words
"back"
"tackle"
"safety"

Safety? Why the hell? We have a pretty solid young safety corps. That makes no sense, even if Dawkins was cut or retired, safety is about as much a concern as tight end!

The first two I agree with though.

Npba900
11-02-2011, 07:55 AM
Every other thread on this forum seems to be dedicated to the quarterback position. All well and good I suppose, but this team needs a lot more than a QB. There are holes up and down this roster. Here is your chance to tell everyone who you would cut, who you would seek in free agency and who you would draft. This should be done based on the assumption that SOMETHING will be settled about the QB position in the off season.

So here goes. This team needs a running back or two. I would get rid of Moreno. Fill in through the draft, even if the back seems like a project low-round guy. We need beef in the d-line and for the love of god some depth please. As an aside I would note that being a sucky young team is not nearly as bad as being a sucky old team, just sayin.:rant:

I say we start start with and focus the draft with our 1st and 2nd with addressing the OL and establish our foundation during the rebuilding period. The OL protects the QB and opens holes for the running game.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 08:10 AM
I say we start start with and focus the draft with our 1st and 2nd with addressing the OL and establish our foundation during the rebuilding period. The OL protects the QB and opens holes for the running game.

I would agree with you if we had a competent quarterback of some caliber, but Denver can ill afford to negate the position and go forward with any of the quarterbacks currently on the roster. Doesn't make a difference how good or bad our line is if we have no one of any worth behind center.

Denver has some hard choices ahead, with more then one direction they can go...we'll have to wait and see, but for right now I believe quarterback is the position of prime concern above all others.

Npba900
11-02-2011, 08:12 AM
All I know is next season I don't want to hear about far reaching grandiose predictions of the Broncos winning 8-13 games......that's for sure.

Npba900
11-02-2011, 08:17 AM
I would agree with you if we had a competent quarterback of some caliber, but Denver can ill afford to negate the position and go forward with any of the quarterbacks currently on the roster. Doesn't make a difference how good or bad our line is if we have no one of any worth behind center.

Denver has some hard choices ahead, with more then one direction they can go...we'll have to wait and see, but for right now I believe quarterback is the position of prime concern above all others.

I agree. I was thinking that if Elway decides to bring in a veteran stop gap QB to start in 2012, then this would be a good opportunity to draft the Off. Linemen available with our first to draft picks.

Then in the future (2013-2014) if Elway decides to draft a QB with Denver's first pick, the QB will have solid OL to play behind.

Thnikkaman
11-02-2011, 08:21 AM
Maybe they can convince the Raiders that Tebow is their answer and get a couple first rounders for him. Wait...they don't have any left to give. Dumb Raiders...hehe.

O-Line is a must AFTER QB. Last thing you want is a first round QB to get pummeled into some semblence of David Carr wearing a Broncos uniform.

They still have 1st round picks in 13 and 14 (there is no way they are getting to an AFC Championship game)

Lancane
11-02-2011, 08:36 AM
I agree. I was thinking that if Elway decides to bring in a veteran stop gap QB to start in 2012, then this would be a good opportunity to draft the Off. Linemen available with our first to draft picks.

Then in the future (2013-2014) if Elway decides to draft a QB with Denver's first pick, the QB will have solid OL to play behind.

Name a veteran quarterback worth a damn? That is sort of the problem, Denver fans are tired of the stopgap options and there is really no one even worthy of being a stopgap. Not unless Tony Romo gets scrapped suddenly this off-season, which I don't see happening. Pretty much we have to find the answer at quarterback, even if it's going the Arizona & Houston route where we trade for someone.

echobravo
11-02-2011, 11:15 AM
Name a veteran quarterback worth a damn? That is sort of the problem, Denver fans are tired of the stopgap options and there is really no one even worthy of being a stopgap. Not unless Tony Romo gets scrapped suddenly this off-season, which I don't see happening. Pretty much we have to find the answer at quarterback, even if it's going the Arizona & Houston route where we trade for someone.

Trading for one might be an answer. I like a kid like Caleb Haine.

dogfish
11-02-2011, 11:46 AM
Trading for one might be an answer. I like a kid like Caleb Haine.

i really don't think it's a viable answer. . . these days, you apparently have to pay sixty million dollars to sign a complete worthless stiff like matt cassell or kevin kolb. . . no thanks. . .

Lancane
11-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Trading for one might be an answer. I like a kid like Caleb Haine.

There is a possibility Denver goes that route, but I don't see fans supporting a trade for an undrafted free agent quarterback like Caleb Haine that has really shown much of anything beyond one game. I think it would be more likely that Denver made a trade for Stephen McGee, Jimmy Clausen, Colin Kaepernick or Ryan Mallett if they went that route.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 12:41 PM
There is a possibility Denver goes that route, but I don't see fans supporting a trade for an undrafted free agent quarterback like Caleb Haine that has really shown much of anything beyond one game. I think it would be more likely that Denver made a trade for Stephen McGee, Jimmy Clausen, Colin Kaepernick or Ryan Mallett if they went that route.

showed more than the starter who shall remain unnamed....sorry i couldn't resist

Mike
11-02-2011, 12:46 PM
There is a possibility Denver goes that route, but I don't see fans supporting a trade for an undrafted free agent quarterback like Caleb Haine that has really shown much of anything beyond one game. I think it would be more likely that Denver made a trade for Stephen McGee, Jimmy Clausen, Colin Kaepernick or Ryan Mallett if they went that route.

:smash:

Lancane
11-02-2011, 12:52 PM
:smash:

Never said that's what I prefer, but at this point...anything is possible, especially with this front office.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 12:59 PM
Never said that's what I prefer, but at this point...anything is possible, especially with this front office.

I'd be ok with a 2nd or a 3d for Kaepernick or McGee.

Cugel
11-02-2011, 01:00 PM
Did you mean I ignored it in the draft? It's not a deep draft for that (unlike last year, coughcough) and we need a QB and a RT, two things that require early picks. If we don't have anyone available we like at RT I would go DT if there's a worthy pick. I was screaming for a DT in the draft last year, and then in FA. Ask hoptard, he and I were gonna go drinking after the aggravating 2nd day of the draft. :tsk:

In my wishlist a couple weeks ago I had RT first and DT second, simply because if Tebow was gonna work out then he'd need a LT drafted to play RT and protect his blindside.

If Tebow's not the guy then the RT doesn't have to be as spectacular, but that 1st round pick gets used on a QB instead.

I'm the LAST guy to ignore DT, but sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. Go sign Bunkley and Garay and I can live with some of the other mess behind them.~G

Your bar tab will be rather high and your liver won't be very happy if they do this. :beer:

The problem for the Broncos defense is primarily NO INSIDE PRESSURE. So, unless they sign a big name FA to come in (and who would want to come here realistically?) they are going to have to draft someone at DT.

And you don't KNOW who will be available in next year's draft at this point. At this time last year Marcel Dareus was NOT considered a top 10 pick and Nick Fairley was considered the consensus #1 DT. That all changed at Dareus's pro-day and combine workouts where he posted amazing stats, and when teams got to talk to Fairley and considered him "a top 10 pick and a top 10 bonehead." So, he slid in a couple of months all the way from #1 overall to #13 to the Lions!

They don't need a RT. Franklin should be adequate with some more coaching and experience. He's not a great pass-blocker right now, but lots of young players struggle with that early in their careers. They threw him in too early.

The problem was that they got rid of Ryan Harris who was their 3rd round pick in 2007. He was adequate but they didn't want to pay him.

Hence they are stuck starting a rookie RT and he's not really ready. He'd be fine if they used him in rotation and had Harris starting.

They don't necessarily need to move him to guard. If he fails next season then yes, move him over to G and no harm done. But, I wouldn't write him off after 1/2 his rookie season. :ranger:

Ravage!!!
11-02-2011, 01:02 PM
I don't like the thought process of trying to build "around the QB"...while having some stop-gap... and THEN drafting a QB later on. That, to me, is completely backwards. Get your QB. He's the most valuable and important position on the field, and can make certain weak areas stronger purely by being on the roster. OL can be IMMENSELY improved with good QB play. WRs can be GREATLY upgraded purely on the QB play.

That being said, after we get the QB we should take the best player available. Other than LT and OLB, (and QB that we just drafted)...get the best player on the board. We need EVERYTHING. Trenches, backfield, runners, catchers, and tacklers. Get a stud, no matter where he is on the field.

Slick
11-02-2011, 01:57 PM
We should be taking BPA for the next few years.

This team is so bad.

NightTerror218
11-02-2011, 02:38 PM
There is a very good RB out there right now who is not getting a contract extension at the moment but promised it. If he does not get it, should we pursue Fred Jackson?

NameUsedBefore
11-02-2011, 02:45 PM
This is what Denver needs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBKXu3Kg4yg)

G_Money
11-02-2011, 03:26 PM
Your bar tab will be rather high and your liver won't be very happy if they do this. :beer:

The problem for the Broncos defense is primarily NO INSIDE PRESSURE. So, unless they sign a big name FA to come in (and who would want to come here realistically?) they are going to have to draft someone at DT.

And you don't KNOW who will be available in next year's draft at this point. At this time last year Marcel Dareus was NOT considered a top 10 pick and Nick Fairley was considered the consensus #1 DT. That all changed at Dareus's pro-day and combine workouts where he posted amazing stats, and when teams got to talk to Fairley and considered him "a top 10 pick and a top 10 bonehead." So, he slid in a couple of months all the way from #1 overall to #13 to the Lions!

They don't need a RT. Franklin should be adequate with some more coaching and experience. He's not a great pass-blocker right now, but lots of young players struggle with that early in their careers. They threw him in too early.

The problem was that they got rid of Ryan Harris who was their 3rd round pick in 2007. He was adequate but they didn't want to pay him.

Hence they are stuck starting a rookie RT and he's not really ready. He'd be fine if they used him in rotation and had Harris starting.

They don't necessarily need to move him to guard. If he fails next season then yes, move him over to G and no harm done. But, I wouldn't write him off after 1/2 his rookie season. :ranger:

"He'd be fine as a backup" does not instill me with confidence that he should be more than a backup. ;) He played tackle for one year in college. He was a good guard who miiiiight be able to play tackle with some work. No different than Kuper or Beadles, except he’s a better guard than either of them, IMO – but just as bad a tackle.

If a guy is minus or average at one position and good or great at another, I want him to play the position he’s really good at. Franklin could be a REALLY good guard, especially in the run game. I don’t spend my time trying to make a really good safety into an adequate corner, and I’m not a fan of wasting a great guard in a tackle position that needs TE help to keep the QB clean.

Again, if there’s a RT we want to get in FA (Kareem McKenzie or whatever) and want to draft a DT in the 2nd, I’m all for that. It’s far too early to even guess at who might be there, but if the right guy is there absolutely pull the trigger. But if we’re betting the future on a QB we’re drafting this year, then I don’t want him getting hammered and harassed as Franklin pulls a fatty-fall-down again on the right side. And if by some miracle it's Tebow behind center, it's doubly important to fix the sieve there.

Let Franklin be a great guard, go get a great RT, and turn this line around. There was a time when our offensive line was the envy of most teams around the league. Now, like the rest of our team, it’s a laughingstock.

If we went a different way and decided to fix the DL first, I wouldn't really complain (as long as I liked the players :lol:) but I would fix the OL first to keep our rookie QB out of bad habits.

If the new guy is The Future, then protect it.

~G

dogfish
11-02-2011, 04:13 PM
rookie mistakes are one thing, but franklin's never gonna have any feet besides the ones he was born with. . .


:salute:

echobravo
11-03-2011, 11:26 AM
Keep coming back around to quarterback. All I got to say is this; we could have an elite QB on this roster and still lose. I am being brutally honest when I say that this team is in the process of building to 8 wins. Championships are far in the future. Especially with this coaching staff. You build teams up front to win. Get the right skill players behind them. The QB is the cherry on top of a sundae. If this Denver team had Andrew Luck and no other draft picks or other roster moves, Luck would be the cherry on top of a cow pie.
I know a lot of you do not like Tebow as a quarteback, OK. I am not one saying he is the answer. He need seasoning and coaching and a lot of work. Most likely he will not be here next year. Does not matter. As long as we have McCoy as OC the only way this team goes to a Super Bowl is if they buy tickets.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 02:03 PM
Keep coming back around to quarterback. All I got to say is this; we could have an elite QB on this roster and still lose. I am being brutally honest when I say that this team is in the process of building to 8 wins. Championships are far in the future. Especially with this coaching staff. You build teams up front to win. Get the right skill players behind them. The QB is the cherry on top of a sundae. If this Denver team had Andrew Luck and no other draft picks or other roster moves, Luck would be the cherry on top of a cow pie.
I know a lot of you do not like Tebow as a quarteback, OK. I am not one saying he is the answer. He need seasoning and coaching and a lot of work. Most likely he will not be here next year. Does not matter. As long as we have McCoy as OC the only way this team goes to a Super Bowl is if they buy tickets.

We could, but of course an elite quarterback makes all the difference, Detroit suffered still without Stafford, now look at them and they had a pretty solid team all around. The Colts are not bare of talent, but without Manning they're a shell of their former selves. And we could go on and on, I could show you several examples. Even if the quarterback isn't exactly elite, but franchise capable...like Mark Sanchez.

And McCoy might not be great, but I can damn well guarantee you that if you have an elite quarterback or franchise capable then we don't look nearly as bad even with an OC like McCoy, because he could make the passes that Tebow and Orton have flubbed.

G_Money
11-03-2011, 02:30 PM
It's kind of a chicken-or-egg thing, though - the Jets had a good team before Sanchez ever got there, and he's stayed upright. Same with Flacco. Same with Rivers. Roethlisberger stepped into a great team and won a SB.

Is it better to have a team built and then find a QB, or find a QB and then build the team around him? Peyton Manning had a team built around him. Same with Aikman. They came it to terrible teams that were being rebuilt and took the reins.

I guess since I don't trust Xanders I'd wish for him to draft the keystone first, and get a QB so that whoever replaces him later can build the rest instead of wasting draftpicks trying and failing to build up the team and STILL not having a QB in a few years after all that waste.

But I just remember David Carr getting brutalized. Was he worthless to begin with, or did he get all the good QB skills hammered out of him?

One of the reasons I'm so adamant about getting a line to help the QB is that I believe you HAVE to protect that asset, and keep him from forming bad habits that will hamper his career.

If Tim is the QB, I get him a RT in the first and then we can start talking defense - once he's upright.

If we have a new kid that we draft in the first, then once again I think defense takes a back seat to keeping the kid's jersey clean so that he can grow into the QB we desperately need. FA, draft, whatever it takes.

I'd prefer to draft a QB onto a team that can give him success. That's why I was stoked about the choice of Cutler on draft day: We HAD a real offense, and a real OC, and we woulda/shoulda/coulda been able to groom him correctly into a really productive QB for us.

But sometimes you don't get a choice and you have to draft the egg before the chicken. Just don't get the egg broken is all I'm sayin. ;) You can't put the Humpty Dumpties like David Carr back together again later.

~G

echobravo
11-03-2011, 03:28 PM
We could, but of course an elite quarterback makes all the difference, Detroit suffered still without Stafford, now look at them and they had a pretty solid team all around. The Colts are not bare of talent, but without Manning they're a shell of their former selves. And we could go on and on, I could show you several examples. Even if the quarterback isn't exactly elite, but franchise capable...like Mark Sanchez.

And McCoy might not be great, but I can damn well guarantee you that if you have an elite quarterback or franchise capable then we don't look nearly as bad even with an OC like McCoy, because he could make the passes that Tebow and Orton have flubbed.

Hey man, Agree with you about the passes Orton and Tebow miss. However, drafting a first round QB to THIS team would be a crime against that quarteback. All I'm saying is this; Denver will find the next first round bust at quarterback no matter who they draft. There is not enough talent on this team to make a successful college quarterback into a successful pro quarterback. Stafford is lucky to still be alive after the pounding he has taken since being drafted, for that matter so was Elway.

If Denver can put together a solid draft behind picking up a QB, then okay. All I was saying is that if there are not good moves to help out the TEAM, then it will all count for naught

Lancane
11-03-2011, 03:50 PM
Hey man, Agree with you about the passes Orton and Tebow miss. However, drafting a first round QB to THIS team would be a crime against that quarteback. All I'm saying is this; Denver will find the next first round bust at quarterback no matter who they draft. There is not enough talent on this team to make a successful college quarterback into a successful pro quarterback. Stafford is lucky to still be alive after the pounding he has taken since being drafted, for that matter so was Elway.

If Denver can put together a solid draft behind picking up a QB, then okay. All I was saying is that if there are not good moves to help out the TEAM, then it will all count for naught

True, but our line isn't as bad as people make it out to be, Tebow was holding on to the ball for well over seven seconds, I think it was reported at one point nine seconds, the lines job isn't to stave the defensive line forever, and if you had a quarterback under center that was getting the ball off faster then our line looks above average. We have some decent receivers and they looked better with Orton in the lineup, so again while we could improve... Without question, Tebow is the major issue for the offense, he's not good, heck...he's not even decent.

One good offensive off-season and the team is back on track, but they have to go out of the way to do it. Not hold back afraid to commit and force change, that's what put them in the position they're in.

echobravo
11-03-2011, 04:05 PM
I just keep coming up against two words. Every time I watch the Broncos. They repeat over and over in my head. running game running game running game.

This I feel is a HUGE hole that must be addressed in the offseason.

They need to upgrade the running game to help whoever they bring in at QB.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 04:34 PM
I just keep coming up against two words. Every time I watch the Broncos. They repeat over and over in my head. running game running game running game.

This I feel is a HUGE hole that must be addressed in the offseason.

They need to upgrade the running game to help whoever they bring in at QB.

Of course the running game is important, the passing game opens up the running game and vice versa. We need a quick yet powerful back similar to McGahee, such as Vick Ballard, Davin Meggett or Bernard Pierce, it wouldn't hurt to add a better fullback either. However we've seen what McGahee can do, if we get someone younger and rotate the two then the run game should be back on par. But the run game will struggle without a solid passing attack and that's sort of what is hurting us most at the moment.

With the line being more man-to-man then zone, Moreno fits even less, I think Denver is going to have to try and unload him this off-season.

If it was me...the biggest two targets I would focus in on this off-season is Demetrius Bell, he would take over at left tackle, then we could kick Franklin inside to left guard and move Clady to right tackle, which would solidify the line. The other is Michael Bush who really doesn't fit the zone scheme Oakland has committed itself to, he'd be a good addition in the stable with McGahee and a young drafted halfback, add a solid wide receiver prospect and a franchise capable quarterback, use the rest of the draft picks on defense and this is a whole new team.

dogfish
11-03-2011, 05:32 PM
cane, i agree. . . mcgahee is rushing for 4.5 yards per carry-- short of finding a superstar back, i'm not sure how much more we can improve the running game without competent QB play to back guys off from the LOS a little. . .

i do think we need to fix the right tackle spot and kick franklin inside, but that's as far as i'd go on the OL. . . maybe add a competent vet center to compete with walton, but otherwise i think we should see at least modest improvement from the line just by having the young guys playing together. . .

and of course, we do need a better blocking fullback, and a complimentary speed back that can flip field position. . . finding a solid backup instead of knowshon's chump ass would be a big asset. . .

but getting a QB that can make routine NFL throws consistently (and find hot reads, etc) is probably what will help our run game the most. . . again, short of adding a true stud back. . .

Lancane
11-03-2011, 05:50 PM
cane, i agree. . . mcgahee is rushing for 4.5 yards per carry-- short of finding a superstar back, i'm not sure how much more we can improve the running game without competent QB play to back guys off from the LOS a little. . .

i do think we need to fix the right tackle spot and kick franklin inside, but that's as far as i'd go on the OL. . . maybe add a competent vet center to compete with walton, but otherwise i think we should see at least modest improvement from the line just by having the young guys playing together. . .

and of course, we do need a better blocking fullback, and a complimentary speed back that can flip field position. . . finding a solid backup instead of knowshon's chump ass would be a big asset. . .

but getting a QB that can make routine NFL throws consistently (and find hot reads, etc) is probably what will help our run game the most. . . again, short of adding a true stud back. . .

I've been saying for awhile that if they added the right elements then this team is completely different, one good offensive off-season almost completely negates what McNumbnuts caused in his first season as the head coach here. I know some people don't want them to neglect the defense, but I'd rather they drafted one solid defensive lineman and focused on offense rather then totally screw the pooch and not focus and keep running in circles. And they're going to have to start using free agency more wisely. And Denver doesn't have to focus on an offense draft, they could add pieces through free agency since it is a young offense and simply draft a quarterback while using the draft for the defense, which I'd be okay with.

Slick
11-03-2011, 05:53 PM
Free agency will be tough for us. Nobody is going to want to sign here.

Lancane
11-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Free agency will be tough for us. Nobody is going to want to sign here.

Now there is that possibility, I believe that some will be willing to sign, but we'll have to be specific and sort of curtail them to show them we mean business no more of that we're meeting another three at the same position and we'll let you know or can you wait a week for us to sign you crap. Let them know and offer them a just contract.

If we focused on key free agents, let's say for example Demetrius Bell, Michael Bush, Jake Delhomme and maybe Adam Carriker, those four being the absolutes that are needed and continue to pursue them, then there is a chance that they'll sign because of the attention. It's rather simple, it's much like college recruiting except with money involved, you mark the players that are necessary for the programs success and you don't let up in your pursuit. If you target five and you end up with three, then it was successful, you want at least a 50% success rate in bringing in recruits.