Cutler putting his foot down with next coach; Marshall gets raise

[Northman]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11362889


Pat Bowlen, Joe Ellis. And Jay Cutler.

All right, so Cutler is a slight stretch. He did not make the trip Saturday to meet with New York Giants' defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo. But Cutler has more influence on this head coaching decision than people might think.

After Mike Shanahan was fired Tuesday, Cutler, the Broncos' 25-year-old quarterback, made it clear through an emotional phone call with Ellis, the Broncos' chief operating officer, that play-caller Jeremy Bates better stay.

Cutler reiterated his endorsement of Bates, in much calmer tones, during a phone call the following morning placed by Bowlen, the Broncos' owner.

"Obviously he's the man around here now so I will be talking to Jay," Bowlen said.

Cutler has been kept abreast of the coaching search. He knew the five candidates, not including Bob Stoops, before anyone else knew.

Cutler's desire to retain Bates is tied for the top reason why the Broncos are leaning toward making a defensive coordinator their head coach. The other tied-for-first reason is this Broncos' franchise desperately needs to fix its defense.

And the most impressive defensive coordinator by far on the market is Steve Spagnuolo of the New York Giants. If the Broncos get Spagnuolo, they would like Bates to become one of his top assistants.

Marshall gets huge raise. There was instant credibility and even some redemption for Brandon Marshall after he was named to his first Pro Bowl last month.

There was also an enormous financial benefit. In part because he crossed playing time thresholds, but mostly because of a Pro Bowl incentive written into his rookie contract, Marshall's 2009 salary will jump from the $530,000 minimum for a fourth-year player to nearly $2.2 million — a 415 percent increase.

Three other players from the Broncos' 2006 draft class — Tony Scheffler, Elvis Dumervil and Chris Kuper — met enough playing time and performance provisions to have their 2009 salary nearly doubled to a little more than $1 million.

The good news for the Broncos is because they insisted on four-year contracts, instead of three-year deals, for their rookies starting in 2006, none of those players will become restricted free agents, where the price to retain them likely would have been higher.

Why Bowlen did it. Much as he tried to generalize rather than specify during his news conference Wednesday, Bowlen did explain why he fired Shanahan.

All one has to do is more closely review his statements.

Bowlen didn't open by saying he was going in a different direction, or even that he had fired Shanahan. He said, "I have terminated Mike Shanahan as head coach." Terminated? Goodness. Bowlen later said that as an owner, it's hard to explain why his instincts told him it was time for a change.

"Twenty-one years of being at one organization and 14 years as head coach is about long enough," Bowlen said.

What happened here is Bowlen simply got tired of Shanahan running his team. It's the only way to explain the timing. Had Bowlen fired Shanahan after the 2007 season, when the Broncos went 7-9 and missed the playoffs for a second consecutive year, people would have been surprised but less shocked.

Had Shanahan been given one more year and missed the playoffs again in 2009, the fans and media wouldn't have waited for Bowlen to fire him so much as they would have demanded it.

But firing Shanahan now had the feeling of abandoning a rebuilding project just as it was developing some promise. The only way to explain the timing is the owner had become fed up with owning a company that was run by somebody else.

"I'm here every day and I make the decisions," Bowlen said Wednesday. "I run the show."

Can't say it much clearer than that.

[Tned]

I love the mind reading/speculation as to what Bowlen "must" have been thinking when he made his decision.

[Lonestar]

Let's hope Pat hires top notch GM first but kinda sounds like he is just hiring a banaide for the defense...

[JONtheBRONCO]

Good read. I agree with Jay - we have to keep Bates.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yeah...cuz Bates likes to pass...A LOT. That'll keep Jay happy.

DON'T give the QB too much power please. There is a chain of command. Let's keep it that way.

[Broncogator]

Yeah...cuz Bates likes to pass...A LOT. That'll keep Jay happy.

DON'T give the QB too much power please. There is a chain of command. Let's keep it that way.

As Yardog would say :tsk: :tsk:. Cutler could be a great QB in the making, but I'd hate to see his ego get any more pumped up.

[Tned]

As Yardog would say :tsk: :tsk:. Cutler could be a great QB in the making, but I'd hate to see his ego get any more pumped up.

I don't know, I think surgeons and QBs have to be cocky to be good. :D

[TXBRONC]

Let's hope Pat hires top notch GM first but kinda sounds like he is just hiring a banaide for the defense...

What are you basing that on? If Bowlen hires Spagnuolo he's getting very good defensive coordinator.

[TXBRONC]

I love the mind reading/speculation as to what Bowlen "must" have been thinking when he made his decision.


Exactly, Klis has already said that Bowlen must not even thought about who he could hire as a GM based on the fact he said nothing a the news conference.

[Tned]

Exactly, Klis has already said that Bowlen must not even thought about who he could hire as a GM based on the fact he said nothing a the news conference.

He may very well feel that Goodman is his GM. He might look to hire someone. Who knows.

Something I have always found amazing, and it happened a lot with Shanahan, when people would get up in arms and call him a 'liar' for not sharing certain information in a press conference. These guys (owners/coaches) would not be doing their job correctly if they were 100% forthcoming in news conferences.

I want to know the details as much as anyone, but their job is to put winning teams on the field, not satisfy the curiosity of fans and media.

[Broncolingus]

Cutler putting his foot down with next coach...

Cutler doesnt need to worry at all, or talking about, the head coach, GM, or anything else expect fixing his key and recurring deep Red Zone turnovers...

When he's taken three teams to the Super Bowl - more or less singlehandedly - then, maybe, he'll have earned the right to talk smack about that stuff...

[Slick]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11362889







Cutler has been kept abreast of the coaching search. He knew the five candidates, not including Bob Stoops, before anyone else knew.


















Have 5 candidates been clearly defined? I haven't seen anything on that.

[TXBRONC]

He may very well feel that Goodman is his GM. He might look to hire someone. Who knows.

Something I have always found amazing, and it happened a lot with Shanahan, when people would get up in arms and call him a 'liar' for not sharing certain information in a press conference. These guys (owners/coaches) would not be doing their job correctly if they were 100% forthcoming in news conferences.

I want to know the details as much as anyone, but their job is to put winning teams on the field, not satisfy the curiosity of fans and media.

It's also their job not let competing teams get a job on them either.

After one many things I've read rescently it did cross my mind that Goodman just might be the team's next GM.

[Tned]

Have 5 candidates been clearly defined? I haven't seen anything on that.

Yes, the Broncos have apparently acknowledged the five (spellings will be fubar'd, but):

Spags (NYG DC)
Rashid morris (TB guy)
Garret (Dallas OC)
McDaniels (NE OC)
Dennison

[Slick]

Yes, the Broncos have apparently acknowledged the five (spellings will be fubar'd, but):

Spags (NYG DC)
Rashid morris (TB guy)
Garret (Dallas OC)
McDaniels (NE OC)
Dennison

Thanks, I'm sure it was posted elsewhere, I just missed it. I must admit I'm surprised to see Dennison's name on that list.

So the front runner is Spags followed by a DB coach? Huh.

IMO, Shanahan is a better coach than any of those guys, but they've also yet to get their shot. Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Northman]

Thanks, I'm sure it was posted elsewhere, I just missed it. I must admit I'm surprised to see Dennison's name on that list.

So the front runner is Spags followed by a DB coach? Huh.

IMO, Shanahan is a better coach than any of those guys, but they've also yet to get their shot. Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Yep. Im just going to reiterate that whoever comes in better have success or there will be a lot of crow to eat. So Patty boy better make a good decision.

[Watchthemiddle]

I don't know, I think surgeons and QBs have to be cocky to be good. :D

Disagree.

Confident - Yes
Cocky - No

[Slick]

Yep. Im just going to reiterate that whoever comes in better have success or there will be a lot of crow to eat. So Patty boy better make a good decision.

Definitely a tough act to follow. Whoever ends up here will get my full support just like Shanahan did. I know it's only been a few days, but I'm tired of waiting, checking rumor sites, all that. I may live in Mexico, but I'm still American, and I still need instant gratification. :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Disagree.

Confident - Yes
Cocky - No

Yeah some of them are very cocky.

[Watchthemiddle]

Yeah some of them are very cocky.

Perfect example is about to start...Manning vs Rivers...one confident and great..the other cocky and has yet to do anything worth mentioning in the NFL.

Its one thing to be cocky if your GREAT...but in RIvers and Cutlers case....just be humble until you do something worth while.

[Tned]

Thanks, I'm sure it was posted elsewhere, I just missed it. I must admit I'm surprised to see Dennison's name on that list.

So the front runner is Spags followed by a DB coach? Huh.

IMO, Shanahan is a better coach than any of those guys, but they've also yet to get their shot. Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I don't think that list is in order of their importance, just those are the 'confirmed' interviews.

Many think that the top two would be the leading candidates, based on the 'bring in a defensive' guy logic. The Tampa guy is supposed to be well regarded, but he's just taking over the DC job in Tampa now, so it is hard to say if he is ready.

[Tned]

Yep. Im just going to reiterate that whoever comes in better have success or there will be a lot of crow to eat. So Patty boy better make a good decision.

Well, the day before he was fired I posted that I half hoped that Bowlen would fire Shanahan so that a couple years from now Broncos' fans would finally realize how good they had it. However, having said that, now I HOPE they look back and say, "I'm sure glad we got rid of that has been, look at us in the SB now".

[TXBRONC]

I don't think that list is in order of their importance, just those are the 'confirmed' interviews.

Many think that the top two would be the leading candidates, based on the 'bring in a defensive' guy logic. The Tampa guy is supposed to be well regarded, but he's just taking over the DC job in Tampa now, so it is hard to say if he is ready.

I have hard time understanding how guy who has never called a play and was just promoted to DC could be a legitimate candidate. I read he has terrific people skills but that doesn't mean he's ready to run football team.

[Tned]

I have hard time understanding how guy who has never called a play and was just promoted to DC could be a legitimate candidate. I read he has terrific people skills but that doesn't mean he's ready to run football team.

I read that he was given a lot of credit for the defensive success in Tampa, and that he left for a year or two and their pass defense suffered, he came back and it was good again.

Hard to say, but it seems like a big jump to me. Bowlen could go there because he is young, and less likely to demand his own offensive coaches, allowing him to keep Bates, Turner and possibly Dennison on.

[TXBRONC]

I read that he was given a lot of credit for the defensive success in Tampa, and that he left for a year or two and their pass defense suffered, he came back and it was good again.

Hard to say, but it seems like a big jump to me. Bowlen could go there because he is young, and less likely to demand his own offensive coaches, allowing him to keep Bates, Turner and possibly Dennison on.

I hear ya but dang the guy still has never called a single play at the pro level.

[DenBronx]

no ones even commenting on the raises given tp marshall, sheff, doom and kupe. good decision but i would have liked the new head coach to evaluate doom a little before giving him the raise. but marshall gettin 2 mill a year sounds like a good deal. sheff 1 mill a year compared to grahams 10 mill...not exactly money well spent on graham.

[lex]

I love the mind reading/speculation as to what Bowlen "must" have been thinking when he made his decision.

LOL. I didnt know Chris Mortensen writes for the Post.

[lex]

I have hard time understanding how guy who has never called a play and was just promoted to DC could be a legitimate candidate. I read he has terrific people skills but that doesn't mean he's ready to run football team.

Me too. We need an architect to rebuild the defense. The guy has nothing on his resume that points to that,...at least nothing close to Spagnuolo. Plus, Spagnuolos specialty has been scheming pressure. We have two DEs that were taken in the first two rounds that are under achieving. For a team that has been struggling to generate pressure, we should be placing a premium on what Spags has to offer.

[Tned]

no ones even commenting on the raises given tp marshall, sheff, doom and kupe. good decision but i would have liked the new head coach to evaluate doom a little before giving him the raise. but marshall gettin 2 mill a year sounds like a good deal. sheff 1 mill a year compared to grahams 10 mill...not exactly money well spent on graham.

They weren't given raises, they were clauses in their contracts that kicked in and automatically raised their salary. These clauses were part of their rookie contracts.

[PatricktheDookie]

At least Bowlen will honor their contracts! *grumble grumble*

[bengaaaaals1688]

I hear ya but dang the guy still has never called a single play at the pro level.

Neither did Harbaugh... Look at the Ravens.

[Tned]

Neither did Harbaugh... Look at the Ravens.

For every Harbaugh, how many complete failures are there?

[lex]

For every Harbaugh, how many complete failures are there?

one

[DenBronx]

They weren't given raises, they were clauses in their contracts that kicked in and automatically raised their salary. These clauses were part of their rookie contracts.

thanks for the clarification. i fully expect marshall to get a raise early in the offseason though.

[Tned]

one

Better take math again.

[Shazam!]

I'm glad 'Elcutler' has say in things. Shows him as a key to the organization.

As for the Top 5 Coaching list, I thought Jim Schwartz was a candidate too.

[TXBRONC]

Neither did Harbaugh... Look at the Ravens.

One coach making that big of jump doesn't that another will be able too.

[bengaaaaals1688]

One coaching making that big of jump doesn't that another will be able too.

I'm not saying it does, just pointing out that he did. Everyone has to start somewhere, and it's not so much playcalling that needs to be worried about from a HC standpoint.

Harbaugh may be the exception, I was just pointing out that it's not exactly unheard of.

[Shazam!]

A new Broncos triumverate?

[silkamilkamonico]

Sorry Jay, Steve Spagnulo's hopefully the guy, and you're just going to have to deal with it.

[broncobryce]

Once Jay (hopefully) sees the other teams QB eating dirt every pass play and Jay doesn't have to score 50 to win he will be all smiles.

[Zweems56]

Sorry Jay, Steve Spagnulo's hopefully the guy, and you're just going to have to deal with it.

I'm sorry for over reacting (most likely) but where in the HELL did that come from? Where did it say that Jay is disappointed in us looking into Spagnuolo? You gotta be kidding me! This is how retarded rumors start. God damn that rubs me the wrong way.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Yeah...cuz Bates likes to pass...A LOT. That'll keep Jay happy.

DON'T give the QB too much power please. There is a chain of command. Let's keep it that way.

Look at the two great ones in the league - Brady and Manning. They pass a lot too. If you don't think they have say in the team, or the playbook - your mistaken. I'm all for chain in command, but you fit the offense around your best player, why take away a coordinator who has a great relationship with the franchise QB? Keep Bates, make Cutler happy, and keep passing.

[Shazam!]

The last Broncos triumverate worked out fantastic with Elway, Shanahan and Bowlen.

If Cutler is to be the leader of the offense, keeping him happy and having his input I see it as a great thing.

The guy has become the face of the franchise and probably the most important Bronco. He should represent for what is best for the team and keeping the offensive staff together is that. It may also help his maturity level.

[Den21vsBal19]

Sorry Jay, Steve Spagnulo's hopefully the guy, and you're just going to have to deal with it.
That's more likely Jay's idea of heaven...............a defensive guy that can probably be 'persuaded' to leave Bates, Turner & Dennison in place, whilst hopefully creating a defense that will take some of the pressure off the offense.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Look at the two great ones in the league - Brady and Manning. They pass a lot too. If you don't think they have say in the team, or the playbook - your mistaken. I'm all for chain in command, but you fit the offense around your best player, why take away a coordinator who has a great relationship with the franchise QB? Keep Bates, make Cutler happy, and keep passing.

Input and power are completely different. I'm sure they have some say in playcalls. I doubt they have say so in coaching and personnel decisions.

...and Cutler is very young. Way too young to give that much decision making to.

[lex]

Better take math again.


My math is sound. For every one winner, there's exactly one loser.

[lex]

Look at the two great ones in the league - Brady and Manning. They pass a lot too. If you don't think they have say in the team, or the playbook - your mistaken. I'm all for chain in command, but you fit the offense around your best player, why take away a coordinator who has a great relationship with the franchise QB? Keep Bates, make Cutler happy, and keep passing.

No. Did they actually say that Bates was the OC or that he will be the QB coach at the very least? The latter is all I remember reading and it should be that way. If we keep Dennison and Bates, it should be up to Spagnuolo (if its him) in determining who has the loudest voice where play calling is concerned. And if Spagnuolo wants Bates to call more running plays and he doesnt, Spagnuolo should be able to designate someone else as a play caller. I know Jay is enamored with showing off his arm and being a super star but its about winning here.

[MOtorboat]

Look at the two great ones in the league - Brady and Manning. They pass a lot too. If you don't think they have say in the team, or the playbook - your mistaken. I'm all for chain in command, but you fit the offense around your best player, why take away a coordinator who has a great relationship with the franchise QB? Keep Bates, make Cutler happy, and keep passing.

How'd that passing game work out for Manning last night when he needed a third down? You have to run the ball.

Cutler can plead for Bates' job, or whatever, but he shouldn't have full say in who his coach is.

[topscribe]

How'd that passing game work out for Manning last night when he needed a third down? You have to run the ball.

Cutler can plead for Bates' job, or whatever, but he shouldn't have full say in who his coach is.

I don't think he does. But I don't see the harm in his influence in it.

You think Elway didn't want Shanahan?

-----

[jrelway]

a franchise qb always gets what he wants. elway didnt want to play for bmore so he got his way. elway didnt want reeves no more as a head coach. cutler has a big say in who he wants as a coordinator and coach. i think bowlen knows that too. chain of command in the nfl aint shit these days. when dungy wants to punt, peyton shoos the special teams back to the sidelines and goes for it on his own.

[JONtheBRONCO]

How'd that passing game work out for Manning last night when he needed a third down? You have to run the ball.

Cutler can plead for Bates' job, or whatever, but he shouldn't have full say in who his coach is.

How'd that protection work out for Manning last night?

[MOtorboat]

How'd that protection work out for Manning last night?

If they could get first downs on the ground, the protection wouldn't have mattered.

[MHCBill]

If my aunt had ballz she'd be my uncle... if, if, if. That can go on forever.

[Northman]

If they could get first downs on the ground, the protection wouldn't have mattered.


Yep, their running game was Nil and it had been mentioned during the game their struggles with the running game all year. It came back to bite them in the ass just like us only Indy had some semblance of a defense last night compared to ours. But SD just keyed off on Manning all night long.

[Tned]

My math is sound. For every one winner, there's exactly one loser.

First, there isn't 'one loser' for every 'one winner'. There are more than two teams. There have been more than two coaches hired, so your math and explanation doesn't make sense.

You stated that for every Harbough like success story, there is only one failure. That makes no sense.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

:rolleyes:

[tomjonesrocks]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_11362889

"I'm here every day and I make the decisions," Bowlen said Wednesday. "I run the show."

Can't say it much clearer than that.

I sort of wondered why Bowlen picked this press conference to go all "I am the decider" on us. Overall I was touched as well as saddened by the whole thing but that was a little odd I thought.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Cutler doesnt need to worry at all, or talking about, the head coach, GM, or anything else expect fixing his key and recurring deep Red Zone turnovers...

Recurring? ******EDIT***** He had a total of FOUR, with two of them occurring in the last game against SD when he was throwing on every down.

I would hardly call 2 red zone turnovers in 15 games a "recurring" incident.

As far as his worrying about the next coach, I'd say that following a year where he was responsible for over 4500 yards of offense, that he has a valid concern.


When he's taken three teams to the Super Bowl - more or less singlehandedly - then, maybe, he'll have earned the right to talk smack about that stuff...

"Jay's the man around here." - Pat Bowlen

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Recurring? He had a total of FOUR, with two of them occurring in the last game against SD when he was throwing on every down.

I would hardly call 2 red zone turnovers in 15 games a "recurring" incident.

As far as his worrying about the next coach, I'd say that following a year where he was responsible for over 4500 yards of offense, that he has a valid concern.



"Jay's the man around here." - Pat Bowlen

don't forget the "fumble" in game 1 vs SD. And 4 isn't a good number anyways for 1 season. We're talking redzone turnovers. At the place where ya have to be most careful w/ the ball, he is pretty careless. Your team in clearly in FG range. That is just throwing away points. Just cuz it ain't every 4th game doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

That being said, if we at all had a D, he likely wouldn't haver to press quite as much.

[Broncogator]

Recurring? He had a total of FOUR, with two of them occurring in the last game against SD when he was throwing on every down.

I would hardly call 2 red zone turnovers in 15 games a "recurring" incident.

As far as his worrying about the next coach, I'd say that following a year where he was responsible for over 4500 yards of offense, that he has a valid concern.



"Jay's the man around here." - Pat Bowlen

He may be "the man" but, IMO he's still a little wet behind the ears to be as full of himself as he seems to be. I just think he's a little too cocky and needs to shoulder his share of the burden when he does make mistakes.

[Broncos Mtnman]

don't forget the "fumble" in game 1 vs SD. And 4 isn't a good number anyways for 1 season. We're talking redzone turnovers. At the place where ya have to be most careful w/ the ball, he is pretty careless. Your team in clearly in FG range. That is just throwing away points. Just cuz it ain't every 4th game doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

That being said, if we at all had a D, he likely wouldn't haver to press quite as much.

Sorry, but I disagree.

Jay had 84 passing attempts in the red zone last season. Yeah, he had 4 interceptions, but he also had 17 touchdowns. That's one touchdown for every 4.9 attempts and one interception for every 21 attempts. In addition, he had 6 rushes in the RZ for two more touchdowns.

So, in 90 plays, he has 19 touchdowns and 5 turnovers. And three of those came in the two games against SD. So we have a total of 2 red zone turnovers in 14 games.

Not a problem, sorry....

[topscribe]

He may be "the man" but, IMO he's still a little wet behind the ears to be as full of himself as he seems to be. I just think he's a little too cocky and needs to shoulder his share of the burden when he does make mistakes.

I have not seen a presser where Jay did not blame himself for a loss, and I've seen about all of them.

You have any specific examples?

-----

[Slick]

I have to agree with Mtn here.

It's magnified because we all knew our defense was giving it up like a catholic school girl.

Keep slingin' it Jay.

[Broncos Mtnman]

He may be "the man" but, IMO he's still a little wet behind the ears to be as full of himself as he seems to be. I just think he's a little too cocky and needs to shoulder his share of the burden when he does make mistakes.

As Tned so accurately posted, a little cockiness is necessary for an NFL quarterback.

And I would challenge you to provide PROOF that he doesn't share in the burden when he makes mistakes.

Take a look at a few quotes about Jay after the comeback win against Cleveland earlier this year....

"That's the one thing I really love about Cutler," Broncos cornerback Dre Bly said. "I've seen a lot of guys play quarterback in this league, looked into their eyes. But (Cutler) can have a bad play, a pick, and he's not going to shy away from anything. He's just going to keep coming at you. That's why he's going to be a great one.

"And at that position, you can't be frightened, be intimidated, you have to always believe in your guys, believe in your system, believe in what you can do, and he does."

____________________________________

"I always have confidence when I play," Cutler said. "You can't let things get to you, you have to keep believing in what you do. If you don't, you're probably not the guy to play quarterback."

Just ask his coach.

"There's no question about it, all of the great ones I've been around have the one quality, that they are going to go out there and try to win the game," Mike Shanahan said. "It's a learning process, that you do make mistakes and you do have to learn from them, but those guys have that innate ability to have that feeling of exactly when they have to make the big-time throw, when they have a chance to win the game."

____________________________________

"I always go back and look at the interceptions," Cutler said. "You see what you did, what you saw and what you missed. But I'm still confident in my play."

_____________________________________

"But you want to know a guy has confidence, real confidence and a thick skin," Shanahan said. "Because you can't make that, you can't give that to somebody, you can only refine it because it's in a guy's blood, just the way he played high school ball, college ball, pros.

"You've got to have a level of confidence in your ability. You've just got to tune everything out, you can't think about the consequences. You've got one thing in mind, and that's to try to win the football game."

_____________________________________

"We can't turn the ball over, we know that, me especially . . . ," Cutler said. "I think the guys are confident, it's just up to me to make the right decisions as much as I possibly can."

Added Shanahan: "Now, sometimes you look at film and say 'Whoa, if I'm in that situation, if I had that over again, I'd probably throw that away or throw it into the ground.' But that's part of it for any quarterback, going through the learning process. But to do the things he did in that game, all four drives, should have been four touchdowns instead of three. I'm just pleased with his ability to keep his composure in an atmosphere like that and still get it done."

[Watchthemiddle]

I have to agree with Mtn here.

It's magnified because we all knew our defense was giving it up like a catholic school girl.

Keep slingin' it Jay.

No, its magnified because he does it at the most detrimental times of the game. See Buffalo, see San Diego before the half.

Both times they were drive killers. If its because he knows the defense sucks, then he should be taking better care of the ball. Period!!! Not just slinging it. I understand Jay is still young and has "huge upside", but its time to show it.

I am sure we have all heard and read the comparison's of Jay coming out of college to Farve....well those comparison's are ringing true. Farve #1 in Int's this year, Cutler #2. Both gunslingers that put up big numbers. Both have way too much confidence in their arms and not their heads. Both throw off their back foot.

What Jay needs more than anything is coaching IMO. The knocks agains him coming out of college are still knocks 3 years into the league. He needs a QB coach that will teach him how to play QB in the NFL.

[BroncoWave]

No, its magnified because he does it at the most detrimental times of the game. See Buffalo, see San Diego before the half.

Both times they were drive killers. If its because he knows the defense sucks, then he should be taking better care of the ball. Period!!! Not just slinging it. I understand Jay is still young and has "huge upside", but its time to show it.

I am sure we have all heard and read the comparison's of Jay coming out of college to Farve....well those comparison's are ringing true. Farve #1 in Int's this year, Cutler #2. Both gunslingers that put up big numbers. Both have way too much confidence in their arms and not their heads. Both throw off their back foot.

What Jay needs more than anything is coaching IMO. The knocks agains him coming out of college are still knocks 3 years into the league. He needs a QB coach that will teach him how to play QB in the NFL.

That would make sense seeing as Cutler threw the SECOND MOST PASSES in the NFL. Of course he will have more picks.

[Watchthemiddle]

That would make sense seeing as Cutler threw the SECOND MOST PASSES in the NFL. Of course he will have more picks.

Gotta protect the ball. All I'm saying.

[BroncoWave]

Gotta protect the ball. All I'm saying.

His INT% was right at the NFL average so I don't think it's as big a problem as you're making it out to be.

[muse]

That would make sense seeing as Cutler threw the SECOND MOST PASSES in the NFL. Of course he will have more picks.

His INT-percentage is not great, he's below average in that respect but it wasn't terrible. It's obviously a part of his game that he needs to fix, but I'm not unhappy with it. After all, a lot of the greats were throwing 20 interceptions at this point in their career. And when we do get a consistent ground game back, the number will come down...there were very few times where we controlled the tempo of the game this year. The Falcons game was one of the ones where we did, and Jay was clinical.

[TXBRONC]

No, its magnified because he does it at the most detrimental times of the game. See Buffalo, see San Diego before the half.

Both times they were drive killers. If its because he knows the defense sucks, then he should be taking better care of the ball. Period!!! Not just slinging it. I understand Jay is still young and has "huge upside", but its time to show it.

I am sure we have all heard and read the comparison's of Jay coming out of college to Farve....well those comparison's are ringing true. Farve #1 in Int's this year, Cutler #2. Both gunslingers that put up big numbers. Both have way too much confidence in their arms and not their heads. Both throw off their back foot.

What Jay needs more than anything is coaching IMO. The knocks agains him coming out of college are still knocks 3 years into the league. He needs a QB coach that will teach him how to play QB in the NFL.

He knows how to play quarterback. You put the ball up 49 times in game regardless of who the quarterback is the chances of making mistakes even in the red zone are bound to go up.

I would go there on the criticism of Jay and being second ints considering by the end of season we had NO running game. He didn't throw 20 or more interceptions. When quarterback does then you have a real problem. Besides that I know a quarterback who threw 20 plus interceptions in his third year. In fact he had two to one interceptions to touchdown ratio and his missed the playoffs that year as well. That same quarterback threw off his back foot as much as Farve or Cutler.

[Broncogator]

I have not seen a presser where Jay did not blame himself for a loss, and I've seen about all of them.

You have any specific examples?

-----

No, just my opinion. I guess things like the whole stronger arm than Elway comments bother me...don't get me wrong I'm glad he's our QB, but sometimes he just rubs me the wrong way...but what the hell do I know anyway, I just don't want him to turn into a whining prima donna if we get a coach he doesn't approve of.

[TXBRONC]

No, just my opinion. I guess things like the whole stronger arm than Elway comments bother me...don't get me wrong I'm glad he's our QB, but sometimes he just rubs me the wrong way...but what the hell do I know anyway, I just don't want him to turn into a whining prima donna if we get a coach he doesn't approve of.

Did he say he was a better quarterback than John?

Also I read the entire article and what I gleaned from it was that Jay was probably kidding around.

[Broncogator]

Did he say he was a better quarterback than John?

Also I read the entire article and what I gleaned from it was that Jay was probably kidding around.

I don't think he was kidding, but like I said what the hell do I know :noidea:

[Broncos Mtnman]

No, its magnified because he does it at the most detrimental times of the game. See Buffalo, see San Diego before the half.

Both times they were drive killers. If its because he knows the defense sucks, then he should be taking better care of the ball. Period!!! Not just slinging it. I understand Jay is still young and has "huge upside", but its time to show it.

I am sure we have all heard and read the comparison's of Jay coming out of college to Farve....well those comparison's are ringing true. Farve #1 in Int's this year, Cutler #2. Both gunslingers that put up big numbers. Both have way too much confidence in their arms and not their heads. Both throw off their back foot.

What Jay needs more than anything is coaching IMO. The knocks agains him coming out of college are still knocks 3 years into the league. He needs a QB coach that will teach him how to play QB in the NFL.

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. In only his second full year as the starter, he was the number three QB in passing yards, behind Drew Brees (1st) and Kurt Warner (2nd).

By the way, Warner had three RZ turnovers (2 INTs / 1 Fumble) and Brees had three (all INTS). I guess they need coaching too, huh?

This is simply not an issue. The entire offense depended on Jay this season, thanks to no running game. Here's how he did....

3rd in passing yards (Brees and Warner ahead of him)
2nd in total attempts (Brees was 1st)
3rd in completions (Brees / Warner)
2nd in attempt per game (Brees)
3rd in yards per game (Brees / Warner)
7th in passing touchdown (Brees / Rivers / Warner / Rodgers / Manning / Romo)
2nd in passing plays 20+ yards (Brees)

And, as I already documented, he's right with Brees and Warner on RZ turnovers.

The reason this is so glaring to many is the fact that Jay was the offense this year. Of 1019 plays from scrimmage this year, Jay either passed or ran on 683 of them (616 passing / 67 rushing). That's represents a full 67% of the plays run by the offense.

With our defense and lack of running game, Cutler was the main reason this team even managed an 8-8 record.

Back on topic, I'd say the player who represents nearly 7 out of every 10 offensive plays has a right to have some input on the next HC.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think he was kidding, but like I said what the hell do I know :noidea:

I know you're quite knowledgeable. :salute:

[BroncoWave]

His INT-percentage is not great, he's below average in that respect but it wasn't terrible. It's obviously a part of his game that he needs to fix, but I'm not unhappy with it. After all, a lot of the greats were throwing 20 interceptions at this point in their career. And when we do get a consistent ground game back, the number will come down...there were very few times where we controlled the tempo of the game this year. The Falcons game was one of the ones where we did, and Jay was clinical.

The NFL average for INT% was 2.8% and Cutler's was 2.9% so it was pretty much right on the NFL average. And seeing as the guys on defense get paid too and are paid to make those INT's, I can live with Cutler's INT%.

[MOtorboat]

The NFL average for INT% was 2.8% and Cutler's was 2.9% so it was pretty much right on the NFL average.

Cutler's "problem" with interceptions is forcing the issue, not in the number of interceptions he throws.

He takes too much on his own shoulders, like the K.C. game, and starts pushing the issue. So, basically his problem is not an interception problem, rather than an error in judgment problem. He seems to panic a little in bad times. Part of that is the play callers reeling him in and telling him, "we're going to run the ball here, because we're only down a touchdown and we don't want to make it worse"...

[Hobe]

Spagnuolo is definitely my first choose. If there is any one that can put together a defensive line in the NFL it's Spags. In two years he took a mediocre line with one aging star and turned them killers. It wasn't just the starters. The backups were rotated in and they were climbing Brady like an easy mountain trail. He could probably get a lot more out of the guys we have now.

[Watchthemiddle]

All these stats and nothing to show for it. Good job Jay, you put up good numbers, now all you need to do is be a leader, stop pouting, stop hanging your head when you mess up, and start winning games.

Numbers don't mean squat if you are sitting on the couch watching the playoffs...IMO. I know I know, if we had a running game and a defense...blah blah blah....thats even more important then for Jay to protect the ball and make good decisions...something he has yet to do. Especially when he has needed to do it when it counts.

There used to be a guy here in town who Jay claims to have a stronger arm over that used to carry teams on his back. He actually carried 3 of them on his back to 3 Super Bowls. Unfortunately we lost those SB's, but atleast he got there and show great tenacity when all else seemed lost in games leading up to the SB. And for whoever said "he was joking about the comment" then why when asked about it weeks later on Jim Rome he didn't back down and said he would say it all over again if had too? If someone is joking, he would have said "oh, it was all in good fun...yada yada yada" but he didn't.

Sorry but I will not make excuses for this cocky arrogant kid until he proves he can do something other than pout and lose.

[Watchthemiddle]

The NFL average for INT% was 2.8% and Cutler's was 2.9% so it was pretty much right on the NFL average. And seeing as the guys on defense get paid too and are paid to make those INT's, I can live with Cutler's INT%.

How can you "live" with that average? He is supposed to be a superstar QB, not an NFL average QB who throws way too much interceptions at the most inoportune times in games. I don't care if he only throws 1 int every 500 passes, I garauntee that that 1 int will be a drive killer at a critical time in the game. I agree with MB, his decision making is bad. I think we can all agree on that.

[BroncoWave]

How can you "live" with that average? He is supposed to be a superstar QB, not an NFL average QB who throws way too much interceptions at the most inoportune times in games. I don't care if he only throws 1 int every 500 passes, I garauntee that that 1 int will be a drive killer at a critical time in the game. I agree with MB, his decision making is bad. I think we can all agree on that.

He was 3rd in yards and 7th in touchdowns. As long as he keeps those 2 numbers toward the top of the league, I can live with an INT% in the middle of the pack. Cutler is in the mold of an Elway and Favre and both of those guys threw their fair share of picks themselves. Cutler is the least of our problems, my friend. You can say the lack of running game and defense are excuses for Cutler but if we improve those 2 facets of our team and Cutler's numbers stay the same, watch our record skyrocket.

[topscribe]

No, just my opinion. I guess things like the whole stronger arm than Elway comments bother me...don't get me wrong I'm glad he's our QB, but sometimes he just rubs me the wrong way...but what the hell do I know anyway, I just don't want him to turn into a whining prima donna if we get a coach he doesn't approve of.

It bothers you apparently because you don't know the whole story. As I and
others have pointed out ad nauseum, Cutler was goaded by a reporter until he,
with a grin on his face, came back with something like, "Yeah, I have a
stronger arm than Elway." He didn't come out of the blue and start bragging
about it, as the press implied, as they blew his tongue-in-cheek remark
completely out of proportion.

I also pointed out earlier that a major reason Bowlen ordered Reeves to hire
Shanahan, and a major reason Reeves later hit the road, was because of
Elway's wishes. So Cutler is not setting the precedent here in Broncoland.

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=469497

Jay Cutler: 'I have a stronger arm' than Elway

Jay Cutler is the NFL's most gifted young passer -- and he knows it.

The Broncos' third-year quarterback is high on his arm and high on his team's chances to make the Super Bowl, Sporting News' Steve Greenberg found out in Cutler's first major print interview outside the football environment (team facility, stadium, etc.) since being drafted.

Below are excerpts from the story -- and SN contributor John Elway's column -- both of which can be found in the new Sporting News magazine, which is on newsstands now.

-- Cutler on his arm vs. John Elway's: "I have a stronger arm than John, hands down. I'll bet on it against anybody's in the league. Brett Favre's got a cannon. But on game days, there's nobody in the league who's going to throw it harder than I am at all."

-- Cutler on whether there is a team in the AFC with a better chance to reach the Super Bowl than Denver: "I don't think so. With Tom (Brady) out, I think there are three, four, five teams that have a legitimate shot of getting there."

-- Cutler on how surprised he'll be if the Broncos don't win the AFC West: "At this point, pretty surprised. Very surprised, actually."

-- Cutler on his expectation that the Broncos will score every time they have the ball: "I think we can score 30-plus points a game. I don't see why we couldn't."

-- Cutler on his battle with Type 1 diabetes: "I lost 35, 36 pounds. I was always tired. My mouth was always dry. I didn't really want to play football. I didn't really want to go out there. I was tired before the game and exhausted after the game. I'd sleep all the time."

-- Elway on Cutler's arm vs. those of some NFL greats: "Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre -- they all could get outside and make big plays. Cutler is either more athletic or has better arm strength than each of them. His arm is pretty special, might even be as good as mine when I was his age. Certainly, it's better than mine was at the end."

-- Elway on comparisons between himself and Cutler: "Some people have asked how he compares to me. He's closer to me physically than personalitywise. But even I struggled a bit with expectations and the Denver spotlight when I was his age. It can be overwhelming. Once he wins some big games, he'll start to feel like he belongs. It didn't happen for me until my fourth year, when we went to Cleveland and won "The Drive" game. It was a big boost for me to win the AFC championship game, especially on the road."

-- Elway on what's next for Cutler: "Cutler just needs to keep growing. His teammates' confidence in him and the coaches' confidence in his abilities have grown by leaps and bounds this year. It's obvious. Hey, everybody follows a winner. And he's going to win a lot of NFL games."

[broncobryce]

Sorry, but that simply isn't true. In only his second full year as the starter, he was the number three QB in passing yards, behind Drew Brees (1st) and Kurt Warner (2nd).

By the way, Warner had three RZ turnovers (2 INTs / 1 Fumble) and Brees had three (all INTS). I guess they need coaching too, huh?

This is simply not an issue. The entire offense depended on Jay this season, thanks to no running game. Here's how he did....

3rd in passing yards (Brees and Warner ahead of him)
2nd in total attempts (Brees was 1st)
3rd in completions (Brees / Warner)
2nd in attempt per game (Brees)
3rd in yards per game (Brees / Warner)
7th in passing touchdown (Brees / Rivers / Warner / Rodgers / Manning / Romo)
2nd in passing plays 20+ yards (Brees)

And, as I already documented, he's right with Brees and Warner on RZ turnovers.

The reason this is so glaring to many is the fact that Jay was the offense this year. Of 1019 plays from scrimmage this year, Jay either passed or ran on 683 of them (616 passing / 67 rushing). That's represents a full 67% of the plays run by the offense.

With our defense and lack of running game, Cutler was the main reason this team even managed an 8-8 record.

Back on topic, I'd say the player who represents nearly 7 out of every 10 offensive plays has a right to have some input on the next HC.

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

[Simple Jaded]

Personally, if I was in Bowlen's shoes I wouldn't give a shit what Cutler wants, but if he's smart Cutler will insist on a head coach that will fix this pathetic defense and leave the offense the hell alone.......

[Watchthemiddle]

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

17-20 as a starter. Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

[Simple Jaded]

17-20 as a starter. Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

Seriously? It's all on Cutler?.......

[Watchthemiddle]

Seriously? It's all on Cutler?.......

No, thats just his record as a starter with all these GLORIOUS numbers he put up this season. Where did those get us?

[Simple Jaded]

No, thats just his record as a starter with all these GLORIOUS numbers he put up this season. Where did those get us?

Where did that pathetic F'ing defense get them? That's the question you should be asking.......

[topscribe]

17-20 as a starter. Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

The Denver Broncos "Defense":

Rank in the league

Points allowed - #30
Total yards allowed - #29
First downs allowed - #29
Passing yards allowed - #26
Rushing yards allowed - #27
Takeaways by interception - #31
Total takeaways - #32

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

-----

[Nomad]

All these stats and nothing to show for it. Good job Jay, you put up good numbers, now all you need to do is be a leader, stop pouting, stop hanging your head when you mess up, and start winning games.

Numbers don't mean squat if you are sitting on the couch watching the playoffs...IMO. I know I know, if we had a running game and a defense...blah blah blah....thats even more important then for Jay to protect the ball and make good decisions...something he has yet to do. Especially when he has needed to do it when it counts.

There used to be a guy here in town who Jay claims to have a stronger arm over that used to carry teams on his back. He actually carried 3 of them on his back to 3 Super Bowls. Unfortunately we lost those SB's, but atleast he got there and show great tenacity when all else seemed lost in games leading up to the SB. And for whoever said "he was joking about the comment" then why when asked about it weeks later on Jim Rome he didn't back down and said he would say it all over again if had too? If someone is joking, he would have said "oh, it was all in good fun...yada yada yada" but he didn't.

Sorry but I will not make excuses for this cocky arrogant kid until he proves he can do something other than pout and lose.


Well said! Jay needs to look in the mirror before stamping his feet for "his" coach especially when a guy like Phillip Rivers owns him!

[Watchthemiddle]

The Denver Broncos "Defense":

Rank in the league

Points allowed - #30
Total yards allowed - #29
First downs allowed - #29
Passing yards allowed - #26
Rushing yards allowed - #27
Takeaways by interception - #31
Total takeaways - #32

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

-----


This is a Cutler thread. Just wanted to play mod :D

:focus:

:coffee:

[BroncoWave]

This is a Cutler thread.

:focus:

:coffee:

Translation: Yeah, I know you're right, but I just want to bash Cutler and ignore every other facet of our team.

[Simple Jaded]

The Denver Broncos defense has been one of the very worst defenses (Never ranked above 25th in the league IIRC) in the entire league from Cutler's 6th game as a starter til now, yet all some people (Plummer fans :wink:) want to talk about his record as a starter like that's the only relevant and pertinent fact to consider when judging his career........Ri-F'ing-diculous.......

[broncobryce]

Well said! Jay needs to look in the mirror before stamping his feet for "his" coach especially when a guy like Phillip Rivers owns him!

Unless they are playing one on one, I don't think any QB owns another QB.

[yardog]

The Denver Broncos "Defense":

Rank in the league

Points allowed - #30
Total yards allowed - #29
First downs allowed - #29
Passing yards allowed - #26
Rushing yards allowed - #27
Takeaways by interception - #31
Total takeaways - #32

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw it. :D

-----

I'm hoping to never see those numbers again. :tsk:

[topscribe]

This is a Cutler thread. Just wanted to play mod :D

:focus:

:coffee:

You would like that, wouldn't you? That way, with all the other factors out of
the picture, you can bring it all back onto Cutler for the team's losses.

-----

[TXBRONC]

All these stats and nothing to show for it. Good job Jay, you put up good numbers, now all you need to do is be a leader, stop pouting, stop hanging your head when you mess up, and start winning games.

Numbers don't mean squat if you are sitting on the couch watching the playoffs...IMO. I know I know, if we had a running game and a defense...blah blah blah....thats even more important then for Jay to protect the ball and make good decisions...something he has yet to do. Especially when he has needed to do it when it counts.

There used to be a guy here in town who Jay claims to have a stronger arm over that used to carry teams on his back. He actually carried 3 of them on his back to 3 Super Bowls. Unfortunately we lost those SB's, but atleast he got there and show great tenacity when all else seemed lost in games leading up to the SB. And for whoever said "he was joking about the comment" then why when asked about it weeks later on Jim Rome he didn't back down and said he would say it all over again if had too? If someone is joking, he would have said "oh, it was all in good fun...yada yada yada" but he didn't.

Sorry but I will not make excuses for this cocky arrogant kid until he proves he can do something other than pout and lose.

That same guy that carried those teams to three Super Bowl appearance on his back also had defense was a lot better than this one didn't he. AND when the team went 5-11 in 1990 they were riddle with injuries just like this one.

[Simple Jaded]

Without Cutler this team wins maybe 2 games, you people (Plummer fans :wink:) are hilarious.......

[Watchthemiddle]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I love it!!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Watchthemiddle]

You would like that, wouldn't you? That way, with all the other factors out of
the picture, you can bring it all back onto Cutler for the team's losses.

-----

No, just keeping it real and on topic. I would never want to hijack a thread....

:coffee:

[topscribe]

No, just keeping it real and on topic. I would never want to hijack a thread....

:coffee:

Are you on topic right now?

-----

[TXBRONC]

The NFL average for INT% was 2.8% and Cutler's was 2.9% so it was pretty much right on the NFL average. And seeing as the guys on defense get paid too and are paid to make those INT's, I can live with Cutler's INT%.

Here's Elway's interception percentages his first three years and what it was for his career.

1. 1983 5.4

2. 1984 3.9

3. 1985 3.8

For his career 3.1.

[Broncos Mtnman]

Where did that pathetic F'ing defense get them? That's the question you should be asking.......

For those in love with QB win-loss records, the performance of the rest of the team that caused those records don't matter.

Bring back Jake!! His win-loss record is proof positive that he could win with the 32nd ranked defense, no special teams and no running game.

Yeah, that's it. Bring back Jake and everything will be better.

/sarcasm.... :coffee:

[Tned]

For those in love with QB win-loss records, the performance of the rest of the team that caused those records don't matter.

Bring back Jake!! His win-loss record is proof positive that he could win with the 32nd ranked defense, no special teams and no running game.

Yeah, that's it. Bring back Jake and everything will be better.

/sarcasm.... :coffee:

I'm pretty sure Jake's Att/INT ratio was better, too.

[Watchthemiddle]

For those in love with QB win-loss records, the performance of the rest of the team that caused those records don't matter.

Bring back Jake!! His win-loss record is proof positive that he could win with the 32nd ranked defense, no special teams and no running game.

Yeah, that's it. Bring back Jake and everything will be better.

/sarcasm.... :coffee:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Magnificent Seven]

They are getting some raises because Pat Bowlen wants to cheer them up after he fired Mike Shanahan.

[BroncoWave]

They are getting some raises because Pat Bowlen wants to cheer them up after he fired Mike Shanahan.

It's nothing Bowlen has any control over. They are performance-based raises that were written into their rookie contracts.

[Magnificent Seven]

It's nothing Bowlen has any control over. They are performance-based raises that were written into their rookie contracts.

Perhaps. Half that and another half this.

[Watchthemiddle]

So let me see if I've got this straight...:confused:

So, because Jay threw so many passes this year he gets a free pass for throwing 18 Int's? :confused:

So just because some of you say "he ONLY threw 4 Red Zone Int's" this year, we are supposed to be happy about 4 RZ Int's? If you are happy about them, how about telling me when those 4 happened? Does that make you happy? ( for some I bet he could throw 20 RZ int's and you would still have a man crush. Shoot, we could go 0-16 and you would still be drooling all over him )

Anyway, How about the Int's he threw in losses this year vs wins? Does that make you happy to see?

Okay, so now I think I get it........the D can get pounded on all year for sucking ( which they did ) but our fearless leader....<--- ha ha ha...leader...gets a free pass for ONLY throwing 18 int's after so many attempts and ONLY 4 RZ int's all year. 18 Int's in 16 games is pathetic!!! 4 RZ int's in 16 games is dreadful!!

[Broncos Mtnman]

I'm pretty sure Jake's Att/INT ratio was better, too.

:lol: That's a good one :lol:

You got me to thinking though. After doing some research, it would appear that Jake was just as unpredictable in the RZ as Jay, and Jake was a "seasoned" veteran.

In 2003, Jake had three (1 INT / 2 Fumbles) in 11 games
In 2004, Jake had three (all INTs)
In 2005, Jake had two (both fumbles)
In 2006, Jake had one (fumble) in 11 games

What this shows you is that true to form, it takes about 3 FULL seasons to get the position down in Shanny's system. It also shows you that Jake had the same struggles when he first got here, and that was after playing 7 seasons in the league.

:coffee:

[Watchthemiddle]

Who is Jake? Are you guys still obsessed with him? It sure does seem like it. I thought we were talking about JAY..not JAKE. Not sure why you guys even brought him up.

Lets get back to the topic of our current QB...

TIA

:coffee:

[BroncoWave]

So let me see if I've got this straight...:confused:

So, because Jay threw so many passes this year he gets a free pass for throwing 18 Int's? :confused:

So just because some of you say "he ONLY threw 4 Red Zone Int's" this year, we are supposed to be happy about 4 RZ Int's? If you are happy about them, how about telling me when those 4 happened? Does that make you happy? ( for some I bet he could throw 20 RZ int's and you would still have a man crush. Shoot, we could go 0-16 and you would still be drooling all over him )

Anyway, How about the Int's he threw in losses this year vs wins? Does that make you happy to see?

Okay, so now I think I get it........the D can get pounded on all year for sucking ( which they did ) but our fearless leader....<--- ha ha ha...leader...gets a free pass for ONLY throwing 18 int's after so many attempts and ONLY 4 RZ int's all year. 18 Int's in 16 games is pathetic!!! 4 RZ int's in 16 games is dreadful!!

So pretty much you are saying that anything less than Jay playing perfect football is unacceptable. Way to put those standards at a reasonable level. The fact is, Jay had an excellent season. If he put up the exact numbers he had this season (turnovers and all) and we had even a middle of the pack defense and a decent running game, I guarantee you that we breeze into the playoffs.

I mean good lord, we had a kicker that missed 1/4th of his FG's, a WR that led the league in drops, 7 RB's on IR, a defense that ranked in the bottom 5 in every major category, and a poor special teams as well and you blame this season's struggles on Jay Cutler. Unbelievable.

BTW, in Elway's 5 Super Bowl seasons, let's look at his INT%, yards, and TDs.

1986: 2.6%, 3485, 19
1987: 2.9%, 3198, 19
1989: 4.3%, 3051, 18
1997: 2.2%, 3635, 27
1998: 2.8%, 2806, 22

So as you can see, in those 5 seasons, Elway's INT% was very similar to Cutler's in 4 of them, and his yards and TDs weren't even close to what Cutler put up this season. You know what the difference was? Elway had a decent running game (and a great one those last 2 years) and a decent defense supporting him in those seasons.

No one is absolving Cutler from all blame and saying that he shouldn't improve but the criticism you are leveling on him is ridiculous.

[Broncos Mtnman]

So let me see if I've got this straight...:confused:

So, because Jay threw so many passes this year he gets a free pass for throwing 18 Int's? :confused:

You clearly know what was being said. No one said INTs are "acceptable." But when you throw the ball over 600 times in a season, it's "understandable."


So just because some of you say "he ONLY threw 4 Red Zone Int's" this year, we are supposed to be happy about 4 RZ Int's? If you are happy about them, how about telling me when those 4 happened? Does that make you happy? ( for some I bet he could throw 20 RZ int's and you would still have a man crush. Shoot, we could go 0-16 and you would still be drooling all over him )

Once again, you imply that there's some satisfaction about this by his fans. Simply put, he had 19 RZ scores against 4 turnovers. Nothing wrong with that ratio.


Anyway, How about the Int's he threw in losses this year vs wins? Does that make you happy to see?

Once again, there's that "happy" talk. You really need to get a new argument.


Okay, so now I think I get it........the D can get pounded on all year for sucking ( which they did ) but our fearless leader....<--- ha ha ha...leader...gets a free pass for ONLY throwing 18 int's after so many attempts and ONLY 4 RZ int's all year. 18 Int's in 16 games is pathetic!!! 4 RZ int's in 16 games is dreadful!!

So, what would be acceptable? 17? That's how many Drew Brees had. What a slacker. And, as I already posted, he also had multiple RZ turnovers.

It's a simple fact that increased passes creates increased opportunities for turnovers.

By the way, using your rant as evidence, your "winning" QB had 20 INTs in his second full season as a Broncos starter (his 8th in the league) on only 521 attempts vs Jay's 18 on 616 attempts. Which proves that I was always right about him NOT being a good leader.

20 INTs in 16 games is pathetic!!! 3 RZ INTs in 16 games is dreadful!!! :lol:

[Magnificent Seven]

If Cutler looks like Plummer in next 3-5 years, draft Jack Elway!

[Watchthemiddle]

Same ol same ol. :rolleyes:

OCD will drive you crazy....FYI

- anyway -

I guess I will just have to settle for Farve...errr...I mean gunslinger Cutler for years to come. Hope we like going 7-9 and 8-8.

:coffee:

[Zweems56]

Same ol same ol. :rolleyes:

OCD will drive you crazy....FYI

- anyway -

I guess I will just have to settle for Farve...errr...I mean gunslinger Cutler for years to come. Hope we like going 7-9 and 8-8.

:coffee:

stop.bitching.

mygod...

[Watchthemiddle]

My how the tables have turned and you guys are getting SOOOO defensive...

This is really cracking me up...

:laugh::laugh:

:rofl:

[BroncoWave]

My how the tables have turned and you guys are getting SOOOO defensive...

This is really cracking me up...

:laugh::laugh:

:rofl:

Almost as funny as you totally ignoring all the facts slapping you in the face in this thread.

We're just waiting on you to make a valid point. :coffee:

[Zweems56]

My how the tables have turned and you guys are getting SOOOO defensive...

This is really cracking me up...

:laugh::laugh:

:rofl:

I'm not defensive. I havent even posted in said topic. There's no table turning on me. Just tired of reading you crying about cutler's whopping 2.9% int per attempt which is par for the course for the league. Suck it up. At least 26 teams in this league would trade their quarterback for cutler hands down, no questions asked, and 2-4 of the ones that didnt should probably pull their head out of their ass.

[Shazam!]

I wonder what Jake's INT% is at handball?

[Watchthemiddle]

Stats are fancy and all...but I like to look at things realistically and not as if I really care about my QB going to the Pro Bowl based off of his stats.

Here is an important fact ...

3-10-BUF 15 (5:42) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short right intended for 15-B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by 59-K.Mitchell at BUF 1. 59-K.Mitchell to BUF 2 for 1 yard (15-B.Marshall

Oops...4th quarter drive killer. Nice play to get us into position....but CHOKE...I think I will throw into double coverage again when its counts the most.

Here is another...the next drive...

3-5-BUF 15 (:44) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 14-B.Stokley. DoH!!! A wide open Stokley in the back of the endzone...I think I will get the jitters and over throw him since he is not double covered. Not only a drive killer, but game killer.
4-5-BUF 15 (:39) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 14-B.Stokley (27-R.Corner).

[BroncoTech]

Yes and then the next play was the same play, since when do we call the same play back-to-back? I saw the Broncos do that several times this year. Oh well it's no worse than the trip wire goal line Marshall face planted on in the dago game.

[Tned]

Perhaps. Half that and another half this.

No, not have that/half this. They had performance clauses in their rookie contracts that they met, and that leads to a raise in '09.


Who is Jake? Are you guys still obsessed with him? It sure does seem like it. I thought we were talking about JAY..not JAKE. Not sure why you guys even brought him up.

Lets get back to the topic of our current QB...

TIA

:coffee:

It was brought up as a joke. Where is the obsession? :confused:

As to the topic, however, it is on topic, if we are evaluating Jay's INT %. It makes far more sense to compare his performance to other QBs that have run the same scheme, then other QBs in the league running completely different schemes. At the very least, it is just as valid a comparison.


:lol: That's a good one :lol:

You got me to thinking though. After doing some research, it would appear that Jake was just as unpredictable in the RZ as Jay, and Jake was a "seasoned" veteran.

In 2003, Jake had three (1 INT / 2 Fumbles) in 11 games
In 2004, Jake had three (all INTs)
In 2005, Jake had two (both fumbles)
In 2006, Jake had one (fumble) in 11 games

What this shows you is that true to form, it takes about 3 FULL seasons to get the position down in Shanny's system. It also shows you that Jake had the same struggles when he first got here, and that was after playing 7 seasons in the league.

:coffee:

Jake never had a line like Jay had this year. That's one of the things so exciting about the future. While we likely will have a hole to fill at center, and Hamilton isn't quite the beast some would like, this line was extremely impressive. Awesome all year against the pass, and in the second half of the year seemed to get on the same page in the run game, even though we ran out of backs to put behind them.

[Lonestar]

Well have not read the thread but I'm guessing this has been all over the place.. from Defense to Jay vs. Jake..

I can see Jay being upset about his HC being fired.. Lets hope he does not get pissed about it and want to bail in a couple of years..

Seems to be a pretty damned good QB with a great future.. he has a an OLINE that we have not had for a LONG time if Ever.. Same goes for WR and tight ends the only thing he seems to lack on O is a studbuffalo RB although Hillis might be that guy. had he not went down on a real freaky play he might have made a lot of folks forget about all the semi pro RB's that mikey has had on the roster since TB and poorti$$$$$$$ left..

The next guy needs to fix the DL and most of this teams issues will be forgotten FAST.. As almost all games are won or lost on the LOS..

[Broncos Mtnman]

Stats are fancy and all...but I like to look at things realistically and not as if I really care about my QB going to the Pro Bowl based off of his stats.

Here is an important fact ...

3-10-BUF 15 (5:42) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short right intended for 15-B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by 59-K.Mitchell at BUF 1. 59-K.Mitchell to BUF 2 for 1 yard (15-B.Marshall

Oops...4th quarter drive killer. Nice play to get us into position....but CHOKE...I think I will throw into double coverage again when its counts the most.

Here is another...the next drive...

3-5-BUF 15 (:44) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 14-B.Stokley. DoH!!! A wide open Stokley in the back of the endzone...I think I will get the jitters and over throw him since he is not double covered. Not only a drive killer, but game killer.
4-5-BUF 15 (:39) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 14-B.Stokley (27-R.Corner).

So, now he not only can't have interceptions, he can't throw an incompletion? You're turning into a joke on this one, WTM.

I also see you conveniently left out the fact that the second pass to Stokley was a drop by Brandon....

According to the AP, Brandon Stokley had a touchdown pass batted out of his hands in the final minute of Sunday's 23-30 loss to the Bills. "I had both hands on the ball," Stokley said. "I've got to catch it. That's what they pay me to do."

:coffee:

[Simple Jaded]

My how the tables have turned and you guys are getting SOOOO defensive...

This is really cracking me up...

:laugh::laugh:

:rofl:

This only makes you look like a hypocrite, you admit that the tables are turned yet you hold Cutler to the standards that you thought were unreasonable when Plummer was QB. Now that they have a QB you don't like, you're whining and complaining.......that's hypocritical.

You made excuse after excuse for Plummer, but you wipe your ass with Cutler.......that's hypocritical. Your act got you banned and now you're just as pathetic as Plummer's critics were, congratulations!

With 600 attempts, 18 Int's is not only acceptable, but expected when you are carrying the weight of an entire team on your shoulders and you have to make something happen.......Jay Cutler gets a pass because he is clearly the reason for this teams success and hope for the future.

Laugh all you want, your childish act is no less pathetic now than it was before.......

[Dean]

How many of those 18 acceptable interceptions occured with an open receiver available but over looked because Jay had already locked on?

Jay's good and he should get better. However, he forces the ball into coverage when he doesn't have to and his long ball accuracy in some games was suspect. He still has work to do.

[Nomad]

How many of those 18 acceptable interceptions occured with an open receiver available but over looked because Jay had already locked on?

Jay's good and he should get better. However, he forces the ball into coverage when he doesn't have to and his long ball accuracy in some games was suspect. He still has work to do.

Many of us believe the same and no one is crucifying him and I think he has done an average job so far in his couple years (not pro bowl worthy though, JMO)! But I believe he needs to be a better leader, player, and winner before he starts demanding coaches and such.

[muse]

How many of those 18 acceptable interceptions occured with an open receiver available but over looked because Jay had already locked on?

Jay's good and he should get better. However, he forces the ball into coverage when he doesn't have to and his long ball accuracy in some games was suspect. He still has work to do.

Jay had his fair share of tipped interceptions and there were at least 3 where the receiver was at fault. But then again, people got on Jake's back in 04 where he had 20 INTs when at least 6 were tipped by the DL or the receiver...

[TXBRONC]

Jay had his fair share of tipped interceptions and there were at least 3 where the receiver was at fault. But then again, people got on Jake's back in 04 where he had 20 INTs when at least 6 were tipped by the DL or the receiver...

While Jake threw 20 interceptions only once in his tenure in Denver it was still fifth time in career that it happened. That being said every quarterback that plays a significate amount of time is eventually going to have interceptions that are not his fault.

[MOtorboat]

Jay had his fair share of tipped interceptions and there were at least 3 where the receiver was at fault. But then again, people got on Jake's back in 04 where he had 20 INTs when at least 6 were tipped by the DL or the receiver...

Jay got those passes tipped because he threw them too hard...just saying, sorry, I haven't read much of the conversation this evening as I've been away, but that stuck in my mind. When those passes get tipped, he's probably throwing the ball too hard, and probably shouldn't be trying to throw that ball into that space, anyway. I wish there were some better decisions that he would make. I'm not sure that's ever going to go away. He's a strong-armed, cocky guy, we've heard him say there's not another quarterback who throws the ball as hard as he does, so we're probably going to have to live with those forced passes.

On the flip side, other than Brett Favre, no one has the balls to throw some of those passes either, like the touchdown to Graham...I forget which game that was, but he had no business throwing that pass.

[Shazam!]

The fact that Jay throws hard I think is a good thing. I like that. Soon we will all hear the same criticism as we all heard for years in the past, about a certain former Broncos QB who must have sucked too, because he had no touch and put everything he had on every throw...

He will get better. He is only starting his 38th game in September.

Jake couldn't get any better, except reigning him in not to set up his typical mistakes. Jake got a horrible deal in Denver, betrayed as another Shanny scapegoat, but I am happy he is gone.

So diehard fans of Plummer as far as I'm concerned, should be happy Shanny is gone, as he is the one who destroyed and sabotaged Jake's career.

I can't believe some people are still pissy about Jake Plummer. Those days are gone. A young talented QB and a new Coach, a new era for the Broncos. Time to think about the future and let's hope they get a better RB, become more physical and better on D.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I liked Jake. He took Arizona to the playoffs for christ's sake. Dude had some skills. Problem was, his bad was ugly bad.

[topscribe]

Jay got those passes tipped because he threw them too hard...just saying, sorry, I haven't read much of the conversation this evening as I've been away, but that stuck in my mind. When those passes get tipped, he's probably throwing the ball too hard, and probably shouldn't be trying to throw that ball into that space, anyway. I wish there were some better decisions that he would make. I'm not sure that's ever going to go away. He's a strong-armed, cocky guy, we've heard him say there's not another quarterback who throws the ball as hard as he does, so we're probably going to have to live with those forced passes.

On the flip side, other than Brett Favre, no one has the balls to throw some of those passes either, like the touchdown to Graham...I forget which game that was, but he had no business throwing that pass.

Apparently, he did have business throwing that pass. It was a touchdown.
But that is what separates him from other QBs: He CAN throw them . . .

-----

[MOtorboat]

Apparently, he did have business throwing that pass. It was a touchdown.
But that is what separates him from other QBs: He CAN throw them . . .

-----

Well, that's kind of my point. But we're also going to have to live with the interceptions...

[Simple Jaded]

How many of those 18 acceptable interceptions occured with an open receiver available but over looked because Jay had already locked on?

Jay's good and he should get better. However, he forces the ball into coverage when he doesn't have to and his long ball accuracy in some games was suspect. He still has work to do.

How many other QB's do the same damn thing?

Let's not pretend that Jay Cutler is inventing new mistakes, he's not above the criticism that any other QB gets, and nobody is saying he can't improve, but he's no different than any other QB in the NFL when it comes to mistakes.

Denver has enormous issues on defense, they have RB's that can't get past the LOS without either getting injured or getting tackled by the turf monster or even their own lineman.......and we barely broach the subjects.......but.......we have ten pages and counting about Cutler's imperfections in a thread that is supposed to be about his role in the selection of the next head coach.

I sincerely hope this past season is indicative of kinds of things the guy gives these people to whine about, I can live with a decade-plus of seasons like that from a Denver Broncos QB........Again!

Whether it's "acceptable" or not, I guess I'll just leave that up to the squeaky wheels.......

[BroncoWave]

How many other QB's do the same damn thing?

Let's not pretend that Jay Cutler is inventing new mistakes, he's not above the criticism that any other QB gets, and nobody is saying he can't improve, but he's no different than any other QB in the NFL when it comes to mistakes.

Denver has enormous issues on defense, they have RB's that can't get past the LOS without either getting injured or getting tackled by the turf monster or even their own lineman.......and we barely broach the subjects.......but.......we have ten pages and counting about Cutler's imperfections in a thread that is supposed to be about his role in the selection of the next head coach.

I sincerely hope this past season is indicative of kinds of things the guy gives these people to whine about, I can live with a decade-plus of seasons like that from a Denver Broncos QB.

Whether it's "acceptable" or not, I guess I'll just leave that up to the squeaky wheels.......

Agreed. If Cutler has another 10-12 seasons like he had this year and gets the help around him to get to a SB or 2 they'll be carving his bust in Canton. The only worry I have about Jay Cutler is that he'll bolt when he's a free agent if his supporting cast isn't any better by then.

[fcspikeit]

How many of those 18 acceptable interceptions occured with an open receiver available but over looked because Jay had already locked on?

Jay's good and he should get better. However, he forces the ball into coverage when he doesn't have to and his long ball accuracy in some games was suspect. He still has work to do.

Sure he has work to do, he can always get better..

I ask you, how many of those 18 Int's came when he didn't have an open receiver? Better yet, how many of his completions, even TD's came when he didn't have an open receiver?

He forced some balls, it's true. Some of those forced balls helped win games, some hurt us, You can't have it both ways. There is a reason guys like Pennington aren't franchise QB's.. There is a reason guys like Pennington get traded for guys like Favre..

Now it looks like a dumb trade, but that's only because Favre stopped making plays. They were getting all the bad and none of the good. The day the bad outweighs the good I will agree with you. Until then, I hope Cutler keeps giving us the best chance to win.. The only chance we had this year was for him to try and make those plays..

Lets hope next year we have a defense and running game, then Cutler can focus more on protecting the ball and stop trying to win the game by himself.

[TXBRONC]

Sure he has work to do, he can always get better..

I ask you, how many of those 18 Int's came when he didn't have an open receiver? Better yet, how many of his completions, even TD's came when he didn't have an open receiver?

He forced some balls, it's true. Some of those forced balls helped win games, some hurt us, You can't have it both ways. There is a reason guys like Pennington aren't franchise QB's.. There is a reason guys like Pennington get traded for guys like Favre..

Now it looks like a dumb trade, but that's only because Favre stopped making plays. They were getting all the bad and none of the good. The day the bad outweighs the good I will agree with you. Until then, I hope Cutler keeps giving us the best chance to win.. The only chance we had this year was for him to try and make those plays..

Lets hope next year we have a defense and running game, then Cutler can focus more on protecting the ball and stop trying to win the game by himself.

Even the great ones have to have some semblance of help on the other side of the ball. In all those years that Elway was the offense he still had defense and special teams that could get turnovers and change field position.

[CoachChaz]

Kerry Collins, Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington...

Guys like this are the ones that lead the NFL in INT%. They are game managers...not play-makers. Yes, they had winning seasons, but would you take any of them over Cutler?

Brees, Cutler, Delhomme, Big Ben...these are the guys with the higher INT %. And the guys that make plays to win football games.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

IMHO...Cutty is lookin a lot like Favre right now. The question that ya have to ask yerselves is....would I be cool w/ having a Bret Favre clone in Denver if it meant the same type of successes and disappointments?

I personally think Favre is way overrated and got quite lucky throughout his career. If he was THAT GOOD, why did he only get 1 SB win? That being said, he was still a hell of an athelete, brought a lot of excitement to Green Bay and is wearing 1 ring.

You may say the 2 can't be compared, but I think they can. Both are uber-talented, but both are kinda careless, "I will do it myself", mavericks. That will equal a lot of wins, but it also only takes 1 bad game in the playoffs each year to equal disappointment.

So, if yer cool w/ Cutty having success similar to that of Favre, you'll be very happy. But if ya think 3 MVPs, 1 SB ring and a bunch of playoff rollercoaster rides over a 15 year span isn't enough, then ya may be disappointed.

[Mike]

IMHO...Cutty is lookin a lot like Favre right now. The question that ya have to ask yerselves is....would I be cool w/ having a Bret Favre clone in Denver if it meant the same type of successes and disappointments?

I personally think Favre is way overrated and got quite lucky throughout his career. If he was THAT GOOD, why did he only get 1 SB win? That being said, he was still a hell of an athelete, brought a lot of excitement to Green Bay and is wearing 1 ring.

You may say the 2 can't be compared, but I think they can. Both are uber-talented, but both are kinda careless, "I will do it myself", mavericks. That will equal a lot of wins, but it also only takes 1 bad game in the playoffs each year to equal disappointment.

So, if yer cool w/ Cutty having success similar to that of Favre, you'll be very happy. But if ya think 3 MVPs, 1 SB ring and a bunch of playoff rollercoaster rides over a 15 year span isn't enough, then ya may be disappointed.

I think a lot of Cutler's attitude stems from the belief that he has to do it himself. Which he does.

I am curious to see what a dependable running game, more balanced playcalling, and a moderately decent defense does to his attitude. I think it will make a world of difference. I think we see him as he is right now because the whole dang team is on his shoulders.

[Traveler]

I'll be happy with Cutler if he begins to handle himself more professionally on the field and in interviews after losing a game.

The radio inteview with Shannon Sharpe revealed the great contrast between good teams and great teams.

I want Cutler and company to be great. If that means Bowlen and the new coaching staff stepping on Cutler's neck to put him in check, then so be it.

The only time Cutler should be putting his foot down in personnel matters is when it's time for him to receive a new contract. But he first has to up his game and not become Brett Farve-like by continuing to throw interceptions in the red-zone.

As much talent as Jay has, he has lost more games than he's won as a Bronco and throughout his college career. Let that become his focus and leave the rest to Bowlen and staff to handle.

[Medford Bronco]

I liked Jake. He took Arizona to the playoffs for christ's sake. Dude had some skills. Problem was, his bad was ugly bad.

He was Rex Grossman before Rex Grossman was himself:lol:

That means he threw some God awful picks at times, mostly for Arizona but at times for Denver as well.

[Nomad]

I'll be happy with Cutler if he begins to handle himself more professionally on the field and in interviews after losing a game.

The radio inteview with Shannon Sharpe revealed the great contrast between good teams and great teams.

I want Cutler and company to be great. If that means Bowlen and the new coaching staff stepping on Cutler's neck to put him in check, then so be it.

The only time Cutler should be putting his foot down in personnel matters is when it's time for him to receive a new contract. But he first has to up his game and not become Brett Farve-like by continuing to throw interceptions in the red-zone.

As much talent as Jay has, he has lost more games than he's won as a Bronco and throughout his college career. Let that become his focus and leave the rest to Bowlen and staff to handle.


But..But..Elway did this, Plummer did that, cut Cutler some slack!:lol:

Great post. We all want Cutler to succeed and be the best but he has to earn his stripes before demanding!

[Medford Bronco]

Kerry Collins, Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington...

Guys like this are the ones that lead the NFL in INT%. They are game managers...not play-makers. Yes, they had winning seasons, but would you take any of them over Cutler?

Brees, Cutler, Delhomme, Big Ben...these are the guys with the higher INT %. And the guys that make plays to win football games.

what about Brady, and in the past Montana, Young and Aikman who led in Int percentage?

It is not the most important but Cutler needs to get his Ints down to a more reasonable level IMO for us to be a big winner. 12-14 is okay I would say but less picks in the End Zone or in key situations is as well.

[CoachChaz]

what about Brady, and in the past Montana, Young and Aikman who led in Int percentage?

It is not the most important but Cutler needs to get his Ints down to a more reasonable level IMO for us to be a big winner. 12-14 is okay I would say but less picks in the End Zone or in key situations is as well.

I agree with less picks in the red zone. Actually I prefer less picks in the end zone. I mean...if he's going to throw a bad one...better it be on that end of the field than the other.

Nevertheless, his decision making needs to improve.

[Shazam!]

I agree with less picks in the red zone. Actually I prefer less picks in the end zone. I mean...if he's going to throw a bad one...better it be on that end of the field than the other.

Nevertheless, his decision making needs to improve.

I agree totally. But if there was any kind of running game this season that would have been improved.

[TXBRONC]

what about Brady, and in the past Montana, Young and Aikman who led in Int percentage?

It is not the most important but Cutler needs to get his Ints down to a more reasonable level IMO for us to be a big winner. 12-14 is okay I would say but less picks in the End Zone or in key situations is as well.

Aikman, wasn't putting the ball up 600 plus times a year, same with Montana, and Young and all those quarterbacks had good defenses and specials teams that could dictate field positon. Also they had great balance on their offense something that we didn't have this year. Elway did same things, threw interceptions in key situations, and he even threw red zone picks. I seen Elways career stat sheet his he threw 14 or more several times he even one maybe two seasons where he threw 20.

[CoachChaz]

I agree totally. But if there was any kind of running game this season that would have been improved.

I dont know. 12th in the NFL in rushing isnt completely horrible. I'll agree the consistency wasnt there, but compared to the rushing support...or lack there of...that P.Manning, Brees, Warner, etc. received, I think the running game was less of a negative effect on Cutler than we want to admit. Again, the other 3 had far less support from their running game, yet they were #3, 4 and 5 in passer rating.

[LordTrychon]

I dont know. 12th in the NFL in rushing isnt completely horrible. I'll agree the consistency wasnt there, but compared to the rushing support...or lack there of...that P.Manning, Brees, Warner, etc. received, I think the running game was less of a negative effect on Cutler than we want to admit. Again, the other 3 had far less support from their running game, yet they were #3, 4 and 5 in passer rating.

We may have been good at times... and the stats added up... but we also had times that we didn't have any active RBs to put out on the field for half a game, and had to run empty set the rest of the way.

[TXBRONC]

We may have been good at times... and the stats added up... but we also had times that we didn't have any active RBs to put out on the field for half a game, and had to run empty set the rest of the way.

It leaves me to wonder that if Hillis had been healthy would we have won one of those remaining three game.

[LordTrychon]

It leaves me to wonder that if Hillis had been healthy would we have won one of those remaining three game.

I have to believe we would have at least made it through Buffalo.

[TXBRONC]

I have to believe we would have at least made it through Buffalo.

I agree.

[CoachChaz]

I dont think the running game is to blame. It's on the defense. When you have to play catch up all the time, you have th throw the ball.

Tatum ran at a 5.7 ypc rate and had 86 yards and 2 TD's on only 8 carries in the final game. Pope had 44 yards on only 6 carries against Buffalo and 51 yards on only 7 carries against Carolina while Tatum had 43 on 7.

The running game was solid and had good numbers...we just never had a chance to utilize it because we were always down in those games.

Blaming the running game is just an excuse.

[CoachChaz]

I have to believe we would have at least made it through Buffalo.

We had 181 rushing yards against Buffalo and still lost. What was Hillis going to do to improve that?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't see why people keep bringing up the defense when the issue at hand is Cutler's gross tendencies to lock onto receivers and throw balls into places he has no busy tossing them into. Yeah, we know the defense is bad -- but the defense isn't the reason why Cutler commits turnovers.

[CoachChaz]

I don't see why people keep bringing up the defense when the issue at hand is Cutler's gross tendencies to lock onto receivers and throw balls into places he has no busy tossing them into. Yeah, we know the defense is bad -- but the defense isn't the reason why Cutler commits turnovers.

Well, it is to a degree. When the defense gives up a TD every time they are out there, it makes Jay feel like he has to make plays just to keep up and then he forces some bad balls. A defense that gives him a chance to play a little more conservatively would help tremendously.

[LordTrychon]

We had 181 rushing yards against Buffalo and still lost. What was Hillis going to do to improve that?

I didn't realize we had that much...

What I was more concerned with, and I could be wrong about this...

But at the end of the game, weren't we without any runningbacks? I thought they were all dinged up again and we were running empty set formations.

Having ANYONE back there... but especially if it could've been Hillis... changes the offense immensely. No, not for the whole game... just the end.

[Medford Bronco]

I didn't realize we had that much...

What I was more concerned with, and I could be wrong about this...

But at the end of the game, weren't we without any runningbacks? I thought they were all dinged up again and we were running empty set formations.

Having ANYONE back there... but especially if it could've been Hillis... changes the offense immensely. No, not for the whole game... just the end.

LT agreed to a point but Denver had the lead at the beginning of the 4th when that sieve for a defense got toasted by the wheel route from their RB.

The D put the O in bad position. Cutler did throw a costly pick at the 1 but the defense put enormous pressure on him, whether we had Hillis or not IMHO

[LordTrychon]

LT agreed to a point but Denver had the lead at the beginning of the 4th when that sieve for a defense got toasted by the wheel route from their RB.

The D put the O in bad position. Cutler did throw a costly pick at the 1 but the defense put enormous pressure on him, whether we had Hillis or not IMHO

I'm not going to argue that the defense played WELL. :laugh:

I was just commenting on our RBs, or lack thereof at a few points this year. Having Hillis in the backfield may have made things a bit easier when Cutler was chucking it all over the place trying to win that game at the end.

[muse]

We had 181 rushing yards against Buffalo and still lost. What was Hillis going to do to improve that?

Remember that 73 yards of that came off of one play by Royal and 40 odd by Pope on the first drive. Then Jay had about 30 yards...after the first quarter we had no consistency from our backs. Hillis brought consistency to the running game which is important. If you run Hillis two out of three downs, you can usually count on him to pick up 7-8 yards whilst guys like Bell and Young don't have that sort of consistency...it's more like 2,2,3,12,2,2...etc.

[CoachChaz]

I'm not going to argue that the defense played WELL. :laugh:

I was just commenting on our RBs, or lack thereof at a few points this year. Having Hillis in the backfield may have made things a bit easier when Cutler was chucking it all over the place trying to win that game at the end.

I understand your thinking, but it's really hard for me to say Tatum wasnt an asset when he was used. 5.7 per carry isnt anything to laugh about. No, he cant always get the tough, short yardage yards, but that has just as much to do with blocking as it does rushing, IMO

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well, it is to a degree. When the defense gives up a TD every time they are out there, it makes Jay feel like he has to make plays just to keep up and then he forces some bad balls. A defense that gives him a chance to play a little more conservatively would help tremendously.

I don't really buy into this line of thinking completely, but I see your point Coach. IMHO, he makes bad decisions because that is just a part of his game. He has that "gunslinger" mentality, whether it is playing from behind or with a lead. I'm not saying the suggestion is a cop out (and I do agree that a better defense would definitely allow us to do different things on offense) -- but I think it is one that can be conviently used to take the accountability and blame away from Jay for the things that he doesn't do well.

I'm glad he's our quarterback, he's a helluva talent -- but things can be improved upon. I'm not too worried about it. He hasn't played three full seasons yet, he's still developing and only 25. He has his best years of football ahead of him. :beer:

[LordTrychon]

I understand your thinking, but it's really hard for me to say Tatum wasnt an asset when he was used. 5.7 per carry isnt anything to laugh about. No, he cant always get the tough, short yardage yards, but that has just as much to do with blocking as it does rushing, IMO

But wasn't he dinged up like everyone else in that game? I thought we were running empty set by necessity...

[TXBRONC]

But wasn't he dinged up like everyone else in that game? I thought we were running empty set by necessity...

Bell was dinged up.

Although Chaz is right about the rushing yards, someone else pointed out that 73 of it came one play.

[Tned]

I think a lot of Cutler's attitude stems from the belief that he has to do it himself. Which he does.

I am curious to see what a dependable running game, more balanced playcalling, and a moderately decent defense does to his attitude. I think it will make a world of difference. I think we see him as he is right now because the whole dang team is on his shoulders.

In the offseason, he said the coaches were working with him to take the underneath routes, to not always go for the deep ball. He said that it was hard to pass on the long ball for a 4 yard pass, but they talked to him about the importance of moving the chains.

He said (this was during training camp I think, but possibly before), that he knew it was something he was going to have to work on, because he realized that moving the chains and keeping the drives alive was key.

In the games where the Broncos offense really clicked, the TE's caught a lot of passes, and there were a ton of short, dink and dunk, if you will, passes. After early success, he started throwing deep more often, many times to Marshall double or triple covered.

This is something they obviously saw as an area he needed to improve at, and at times this season he was better, but far to often he focused too much on the deep ball and wound up with INTs or incompletions.

He needs to grasp the "move the chains", jab, jab, jab with the short gains, then when the defense starts coming up to prevent the 5-10 yard gains, burn them with the long pass.

[TXBRONC]

Anyone know what the offense's 3rd down conversion rate was and where they ranked?

[Tned]

I dont think the running game is to blame. It's on the defense. When you have to play catch up all the time, you have th throw the ball.

Tatum ran at a 5.7 ypc rate and had 86 yards and 2 TD's on only 8 carries in the final game. Pope had 44 yards on only 6 carries against Buffalo and 51 yards on only 7 carries against Carolina while Tatum had 43 on 7.

The running game was solid and had good numbers...we just never had a chance to utilize it because we were always down in those games.

Blaming the running game is just an excuse.

He did have a very good YPC, but it was from a handful of runs out of passing formations, including shotgun draws. It was due in large part to the fact that the Broncos were in pass only mode, that Tatum ripped off some nice runs. If he had run 25 times, I doubt he would have had anywhere near the success.

[EastCoastBronco]

Make no mistake...Cutler's foot only goes down as far as Bowlen allows it to go down...;-)

[LRtagger]

Anyone know what the offense's 3rd down conversion rate was and where they ranked?

3rd in the league at 47.5%

NO was 2nd with 48.5%

Indy was 1st with 50.2%

[muse]

Anyone know what the offense's 3rd down conversion rate was and where they ranked?

48% which was good for 3rd, just below the Saints.

[Lonestar]

Jay is a lot like the two vultures setting in a dead tree in the desert nothing in sight to the horizon but an long horn bulls skull.. One looks at the other one and says Patience my ass I'm going go kill something..

John, Jake and Jay have one thing in common they want to win and they were all gunslingers with the attitude of having to win the game.. All came from college programs that were less than stellar in the win column..

Most likely that last winning program they were in was High school where they could make a difference..Be the man..

I suspect as the running game getting more consistent not 50 yards one week and 180 the next.. Being able to run on demand not when it is Nice to do so.. Having someone that can get the 3rd and 2 when they have to to be able to get the redzone yards inside the 10.. Will take a huge weight off his shoulders so he does not have to carry the team..

The one major flaw I see in his game is not looking off his target.. Locking on like fire control radar and not letting go..

Hopefully "new" mikey will get someone to play defense and we all know that it starts on the DL.. and on this team continues up the middle..

Time will tell

[Medford Bronco]

3rd in the league at 47.5%

NO was 2nd with 48.5%

Indy was 1st with 50.2%

What was the defenses 3rd down rate :scared:

probably worse.

That is a good rate for Cutler but the turnovers have to be cut down
with some help from the defense hopefully so we can improve overall as a team

[LRtagger]

What was the defenses 3rd down rate :scared:

probably worse.

That is a good rate for Cutler but the turnovers have to be cut down
with some help from the defense hopefully so we can improve overall as a team

Defense was 25th in the league...44.1%.

That is better than I would have guessed. I would have guessed closer to 50% and bottom 2 or 3 in the league. KC was worst in the league at 47.4%. I would have thought we would have been closer to that number.

The #1 3rd down defense was Pitt with a 31.4% conversion rate.

[Medford Bronco]

Defense was 25th in the league...44.1%.

That is better than I would have guessed. I would have guessed closer to 50% and bottom 2 or 3 in the league. KC was worst in the league at 47.4%. I would have thought we would have been closer to that number.

The #1 3rd down defense was Pitt with a 31.4% conversion rate.

I guess the big plays we gave up killed us more, especially vs the run at times early in the year and then vs the pass later on

[TXBRONC]

Defense was 25th in the league...44.1%.

That is better than I would have guessed. I would have guessed closer to 50% and bottom 2 or 3 in the league. KC was worst in the league at 47.4%. I would have thought we would have been closer to that number.

The #1 3rd down defense was Pitt with a 31.4% conversion rate.

If I remember correctly the defense had a stretch where they allowoing something like 60% or better on 3rd down.

[LRtagger]

If I remember correctly the defense had a stretch where they allowoing something like 60% or better on 3rd down.

I wouldn't doubt it.

[CoachChaz]

He did have a very good YPC, but it was from a handful of runs out of passing formations, including shotgun draws. It was due in large part to the fact that the Broncos were in pass only mode, that Tatum ripped off some nice runs. If he had run 25 times, I doubt he would have had anywhere near the success.

I like that you bring this up. Nothing against you personally Tned, but I often find it VERY interesting how many people will bring up a stat to defend a position and then piss on it later on.

Someone may say 1500 yards and a 5.5 ypc is great. But what if it's for a losing team and the back only scored 5 or 6 TD's? In contrast, would a back on a winning team who rushed for only 700 yards with a 3.9 ypc, but had 12 TD's and got alot of key 1st downs have technically had a better season?

It seems as though stats are thrown around with complete convenience to a specific argument.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I like that you bring this up. Nothing against you personally Tned, but I often find it VERY interesting how many people will bring up a stat to defend a position and then piss on it later on.

Someone may say 1500 yards and a 5.5 ypc is great. But what if it's for a losing team and the back only scored 5 or 6 TD's? In contrast, would a back on a winning team who rushed for only 700 yards with a 3.9 ypc, but had 12 TD's and got alot of key 1st downs have technically had a better season?

It seems as though stats are thrown around with complete convenience to a specific argument.

I can agree to a certain extent about the validity of stats, but some of them simply have to be considered when discussing certain things, such as Jay's interceptions.

For example, of the 616 pass attempts made by Cutler, 336 of them were made when the Broncos were behind. That means that over half of the time he had to make a pass, he was doing so with the other guys in the lead.

Clearly, this had to produce additional pressure to "make a play." It also would lead to questionable decisions and forcing the ball. For the record, Jay had 12 of his 18 interceptions when the team was behind. He also had 12 of his touchdowns when passing from behind.

So, as it turns out, it becomes a 50/50 situation when you ask the QB to be the one to make the play when your team is down over half the time.

Back on topic, as I posted earlier, Jay was responsible for 67% of the Broncos plays either running or passing. Seems to me he has the right to be involved in process of who the next HC is.

[PatricktheDookie]

67% ?

That's not a good number for us. =(

[MOtorboat]

67% ?

That's not a good number for us. =(

I would be curious to know what that same stat said about Elway in the first three Super Bowl years vs. the final two.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I would be curious to know what that same stat said about Elway in the first three Super Bowl years vs. the final two.

John Elway

1986 - 998 plays / 504 passes / 52 rushes / 56% of plays
1987 - 959 plays / 410 passes / 66 rushes / 50% of plays (Strike year and missed 3 games)
1989 - 1001 plays / 416 passes / 48 rushes / 46% of plays (missed one game)
1997 - 1055 plays / 502 passes / 50 rushes / 52% of plays
1998 - 891 plays / 356 passes / 37 rushes / 44 % of plays (misses 4 games)


Jay Cutler (as a reminder)

2008 - 1019 plays / 616 passes / 57 rushes / 66% (I missed it by one number - :lol: )

Elway was NEVER asked to carry as much weight as Jay was asked to carry this past season.

[omac]

John Elway

1986 - 998 plays / 504 passes / 52 rushes / 56% of plays
1987 - 959 plays / 410 passes / 66 rushes / 50% of plays (Strike year and missed 3 games)
1989 - 1001 plays / 416 passes / 48 rushes / 46% of plays (missed one game)
1997 - 1055 plays / 502 passes / 50 rushes / 52% of plays
1998 - 891 plays / 356 passes / 37 rushes / 44 % of plays (misses 4 games)


Jay Cutler (as a reminder)

2008 - 1019 plays / 616 passes / 57 rushes / 66% (I missed it by one number - :lol: )

Elway was NEVER asked to carry as much weight as Jay was asked to carry this past season.

Great post, broncos_mtnman! :salute:

[fcspikeit]

John Elway

1986 - 998 plays / 504 passes / 52 rushes / 56% of plays
1987 - 959 plays / 410 passes / 66 rushes / 50% of plays (Strike year and missed 3 games)
1989 - 1001 plays / 416 passes / 48 rushes / 46% of plays (missed one game)
1997 - 1055 plays / 502 passes / 50 rushes / 52% of plays
1998 - 891 plays / 356 passes / 37 rushes / 44 % of plays (misses 4 games)


Jay Cutler (as a reminder)

2008 - 1019 plays / 616 passes / 57 rushes / 66% (I missed it by one number - :lol: )

Elway was NEVER asked to carry as much weight as Jay was asked to carry this past season.

What was the % Manning had with the Colts and Rivers had with the Bolts?

I would look it up myself but my computer crashes every time I go to NFL.com...

Thanks in advance :salute:

[fcspikeit]

Defense was 25th in the league...44.1%.

That is better than I would have guessed. I would have guessed closer to 50% and bottom 2 or 3 in the league. KC was worst in the league at 47.4%. I would have thought we would have been closer to that number.

The #1 3rd down defense was Pitt with a 31.4% conversion rate.

25th sounds about right. look at everyone around us at 25th. Teams with about the same record as us... It just shows you can't win a lot of games if your offense is always sitting on the bench because your D can't get off the field..

I would really like to know where we ranked on long 3rd downs, 5 yards or more. I bet we were near the bottom. When it was 3rd and 8 we always seemed to give up 9 yards. Are cushion was just enough to allow them to get the 1st...

[Broncos Mtnman]

What was the % Manning had with the Colts and Rivers had with the Bolts?

I would look it up myself but my computer crashes every time I go to NFL.com...

Thanks in advance :salute:

You sure it's just not because you're lazy? j/k :lol:

Manning

934 plays / 555 passes / 20 rushes / 61%

Rivers

924 plays / 478 passes / 31 rushes / 55%


Jay beats them both in percentage of total offensive plays by the QB.

[broncohead]

I think that those numbers are a direct effect of the defense as mentioned but also the lack of a successful running game. There was a lot of times where we could have ran the ball last year but didn't because the confidence in the running game wasn't there. If only Hillis played RB all year...

[Dean]

I think that those numbers are a direct effect of the defense as mentioned but also the lack of a successful running game. There was a lot of times where we could have ran the ball last year but didn't because the confidence in the running game wasn't there. If only Hillis played RB all year...


I wonder why that was true. Was it infatuation with Jay's arm. was it having a new and rather young play caller?

The New York Giants lead the league with 5.0 yards per rushing attempt. The Broncos, Carolina, and K.C. were all tied for second with an average per carry of 4.8. I would think that indicates more rushing calls should have been made. Yet, they weren't.

I understand that once you are behind by two scores in the second half you become forced to put the ball up. . .to abandon the run for quicker scores.

My impression was that we gave up on running the ball too early.

[Lonestar]

I wonder why that was true. Was it infatuation with Jay's arm. was it having a new and rather young play caller?

The New York Giants lead the league with 5.0 yards per rushing attempt. The Broncos, Carolina, and K.C. were all tied for second with an average per carry of 4.8. I would think that indicates more rushing calls should have been made. Yet, they weren't.

I understand that once you are behind by two scores in the second half you become forced to put the ball up. . .to abandon the run for quicker scores.

My impression was that we gave up on running the ball too early.

Some of those numbers were skewed by the reverses called for the WR to get big yards.. I know of one in particular that got royale 71 yards..

Now I'm not sure that the other top rushing teams used their WR alot but when your running alot of reverses your YPC should be a bit higher than a between the tackles running game..

Yes many time IMO we gave up on the run before we should have.. But then tater and young do not inspire a alot of trust..

[PatricktheDookie]

The real measure of a good running team is whether you can make it on 3rd and short.

[omac]

The real measure of a good running team is whether you can make it on 3rd and short.

Yeah, we seemed to elect to throw a ton on 3rd and 2's or 3's this season.

[Dean]

Some of those numbers were skewed by the reverses called for the WR to get big yards.. I know of one in particular that got royale 71 yards..

Now I'm not sure that the other top rushing teams used their WR alot but when your running alot of reverses your YPC should be a bit higher than a between the tackles running game..

Yes many time IMO we gave up on the run before we should have.. But then tater and young do not inspire a alot of trust..

Mathematically, a 71 yard run when considered with the total number of running plays does not shew the results.

Also, this year we had several reverses go for less than 4 yards and some for negative yardage.

[Astrass]

Cutler needs to focus on better decision making....that is it. Then one day he can wear the big boy pants and stop his feet around the managements offices.

[LordTrychon]

Mathematically, a 71 yard run when considered with the total number of running plays does not shew the results.

Also, this year we had several reverses go for less than 4 yards and some for negative yardage.

Agreed...

The 71 yarder skews that game, which was used as an argument for the strength of the run game earlier... but that's irrelevant now.

I would say the fact that we passed so much helped us get decent running yards on the rare occasions we did run it... I'm fairly sure we didn't face 8 in the box...... ever this season. :laugh:

[Lonestar]

Mathematically, a 71 yard run when considered with the total number of running plays does not shew the results.

Also, this year we had several reverses go for less than 4 yards and some for negative yardage.

I understand that But I also know we had a several that went for +20 so without going over every play through out the year, perhaps on the grand scheme of things they managed to bump the YPC by perhaps a tenth or so it would bump us down from tied for #2 to tied 3 or maybe even 4.

for example take 2 rushes out of the total and a 100 yards all of a sudden your at 4.5 yards per carry and your tied for 6th.. I guess one of the reasons I do not like to see WR rushing yards lumped into the rushing totals.. Or for that matter passes to RB that start out behind the LOS as Passing yards.

So Coach a few really good runs like Eddie had does indeed make a difference..

[Lonestar]

Agreed...

The 71 yarder skews that game, which was used as an argument for the strength of the run game earlier... but that's irrelevant now.

I would say the fact that we passed so much helped us get decent running yards on the rare occasions we did run it... I'm fairly sure we didn't face 8 in the box...... ever this season. :laugh:

Good points but there were a few times after Hillis was carrying the rock, not that it mattered much he was a load..

[LordTrychon]

Good points but there were a few times after Hillis was carrying the rock, not that it mattered much he was a load..

Yeah... I was exaggerating... but there are times that we most certainly didn't see it much. :laugh:

[Watchthemiddle]

But..But..Elway did this, Plummer did that, cut Cutler some slack!:lol:

Great post. We all want Cutler to succeed and be the best but he has to earn his stripes before demanding!

Amen Brotha!!

[Watchthemiddle]

This only makes you look like a hypocrite, you admit that the tables are turned yet you hold Cutler to the standards that you thought were unreasonable when Plummer was QB. Now that they have a QB you don't like, you're whining and complaining.......that's hypocritical.

You made excuse after excuse for Plummer, but you wipe your ass with Cutler.......that's hypocritical. Your act got you banned and now you're just as pathetic as Plummer's critics were, congratulations!

With 600 attempts, 18 Int's is not only acceptable, but expected when you are carrying the weight of an entire team on your shoulders and you have to make something happen.......Jay Cutler gets a pass because he is clearly the reason for this teams success and hope for the future.

Laugh all you want, your childish act is no less pathetic now than it was before.......

Don't hate dude...its just my opinion. Sorry it doesn't jive with yours.

[BroncoWave]

Don't hate dude...its just my opinion. Sorry it doesn't jive with yours.

That's not the point. You are fully entitled to your opinion. But when you hold Plummer (a 10 yr vet at the time) to one standard, and then hold Cutler (in his 3rd yr) to a much higher standard, not only is it completely irrational, it makes you look like a hypocrite. But please, if you hate Cutler so much perhaps you should go follow the Idaho handball leagues instead. :coffee:

[Watchthemiddle]

That's not the point. You are fully entitled to your opinion. But when you hold Plummer (a 10 yr vet at the time) to one standard, and then hold Cutler (in his 3rd yr) to a much higher standard, not only is it completely irrational, it makes you look like a hypocrite. But please, if you hate Cutler so much perhaps you should go follow the Idaho handball leagues instead. :coffee:

NO thanks, never really got into the whole handball thing.

:coffee:

[TXBRONC]

I wonder why that was true. Was it infatuation with Jay's arm. was it having a new and rather young play caller?

The New York Giants lead the league with 5.0 yards per rushing attempt. The Broncos, Carolina, and K.C. were all tied for second with an average per carry of 4.8. I would think that indicates more rushing calls should have been made. Yet, they weren't.

I understand that once you are behind by two scores in the second half you become forced to put the ball up. . .to abandon the run for quicker scores.

My impression was that we gave up on running the ball too early.

Our ypc was very good but did we really have anyone that could be trusted in crunch time?

[fcspikeit]

The real measure of a good running team is whether you can make it on 3rd and short.


Agreed...

The 71 yarder skews that game, which was used as an argument for the strength of the run game earlier... but that's irrelevant now.

I would say the fact that we passed so much helped us get decent running yards on the rare occasions we did run it... I'm fairly sure we didn't face 8 in the box...... ever this season. :laugh:


I understand that But I also know we had a several that went for +20 so without going over every play through out the year, perhaps on the grand scheme of things they managed to bump the YPC by perhaps a tenth or so it would bump us down from tied for #2 to tied 3 or maybe even 4.

for example take 2 rushes out of the total and a 100 yards all of a sudden your at 4.5 yards per carry and your tied for 6th.. I guess one of the reasons I do not like to see WR rushing yards lumped into the rushing totals.. Or for that matter passes to RB that start out behind the LOS as Passing yards.

So Coach a few really good runs like Eddie had does indeed make a difference..


Our ypc was very good but did we really have anyone that could be trusted in crunch time?

I could have used you guys in the smack forum :laugh:

Been arguing the exact same points to our resident Bengals fans in the congrats Chargers thread...

[fcspikeit]

As Long as Cutlers is the future of this team, he should have say in everything that goes on offense... He knows what he can do and if he can have a good relationship with a coach. We just need someone smart enough to tell him when he is trying for to much. But they have to be able to work together..

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want our QB and QB coach to get along? :confused:

Somehow Cutler is a bad guy for having a good relationship with his friend and wanting Denver to keep him? Unbelievable....:coffee:

[CoachChaz]

I understand that But I also know we had a several that went for +20 so without going over every play through out the year, perhaps on the grand scheme of things they managed to bump the YPC by perhaps a tenth or so it would bump us down from tied for #2 to tied 3 or maybe even 4.

for example take 2 rushes out of the total and a 100 yards all of a sudden your at 4.5 yards per carry and your tied for 6th.. I guess one of the reasons I do not like to see WR rushing yards lumped into the rushing totals.. Or for that matter passes to RB that start out behind the LOS as Passing yards.

So Coach a few really good runs like Eddie had does indeed make a difference..

Really? Is that based on the 104 TOTAL rushing yards from our receivers this season? Sorry...but Eddie didnt make mush of a difference in our rushing attack.

But if you are going to dissect our totals based on big plays, then do it for every other team in the NFL.

[Traveler]

As Long as Cutlers is the future of this team, he should have say in everything that goes on offense...

No he shouldn't. His only input should be to convey his likes and dislikes for certain plays in the playbook.


He knows what he can do and if he can have a good relationship with a coach. We just need someone smart enough to tell him when he is trying for to much. But they have to be able to work together..

No arguement here


I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want our QB and QB coach to get along? :confused:

No arguement here either.


Somehow Cutler is a bad guy for having a good relationship with his friend and wanting Denver to keep him? Unbelievable....:coffee:

It's a business. Cutler, just like everyone else, will have adjust to the possibility of the coming changes.

[Lonestar]

Really? Is that based on the 104 TOTAL rushing yards from our receivers this season? Sorry...but Eddie didnt make mush of a difference in our rushing attack.

But if you are going to dissect our totals based on big plays, then do it for every other team in the NFL.

After going back and indeed looking at his totals you correct I guess I just rememebr the BIG plays the 71 yarder and another for about 25 so sorry.. I did nto get to see but about 6 of the games on real TV this year so some of those BIG plays did stick in my mind..

As I said in a prior post..


Now I'm not sure that the other top rushing teams used their WR alot but when your running alot of reverses those YPC should be a bit higher than a between the tackles running game..

Not worth my time.. Your more than weclome to do so if you wish..

[CoachChaz]

After going back and indeed looking at his totals you correct I guess I just rememebr the BIG plays the 71 yarder and another for about 25 so sorry.. I did nto get to see but about 6 of the games on real TV this year so some of those BIG plays did stick in my mind..

As I said in a prior post..



Not worth my time.. Your more than weclome to do so if you wish..

I prefer not...Just trying to make the point that the 104 yards from our recievers shouldnt really be used as an addendum to our running game.

[Dean]

I see that several do not believe in stats and that is reasonable. They do not always convey what they attempt to show. However, here are some stats compiled on Jay Cutler's season that I found posted on Broncos Country Message Board (Broncomania) to be interesting. They made me think a little bit and I thought some here would be interested.



DenverBroncos.comBroncosCountry.com







#1 12-30-2008, 12:02 PM
MJA

Practice Squad Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 30


A In-Depth Statistical Look At Jay Cutler's Season
With all the anger and disappointment about the Bronco’s missing the playoffs there has been a lot of debate about Jay Cutler’s play. Some are praising him as Elway’s heir apparent while others are already demanding a replacement. I thought it would be interesting to take a look at all of Jay Cutler’s stats and see how they stack up with the rest of the league’s quarterbacks. First lets take a look at completions and attempts. If you take a look at Cutler’s completion percentage its at 62.3% and sticks him at tied for 14th in the league, but take a look at the amount of completions and attempts. He is 3rd in the league with completions at 384 and is second in the league with 616 passing attempts. In both those categories the top three are Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, and Cutler (Not in Correct Order). All three of their teams finished .500 or worse which leads me to believe that obscene passing attempts by a teams quarterback means that the quarterback is making up for a lack of a rushing attack, this is true for Brees and Warner whose teams rank 28th and 32nd in rushing respectively. Cutler on the other hand has a rushing attack that is ranked 12th in the league in yards and an incredible 2nd in the league in yards per carry at 4.8. It seems that the running-back carousel really did not hamper the offense as much as we all thought. Taking a look at touchdowns and interceptions Cutler really does need to work on his interception total as he has 18, which leaves him second behind Favre, but his touchdowns leaves him at 7th in the league at 25, which gives him a +7 turnover differential. Cutler also does a great job on passes over 20+ yards as he has 55, which puts him just behind Brees for second place. 40+ yards is a different issue though as he drops all the way down to 13th in the league.

I also wanted to give props to the offensive line who only let up 11 sacks on Cutler all year. Only Kerry Collins’s line did better at 8 sacks. Another interesting statistic I found was that in the first 20 passing attempts of the game Jay Cutler has around a 90.45 passer rating, but on attempts 21-40 he has around a 81 rating, his completion percentage also drops about 6-7 points after 20 attempts. I wonder if his type 1 diabetes is the cause for that? This is also reflected in his 1st half and 2nd half passer rating which is 87.4 and 84.7 respectively. Also all the complaints about his red-zone performance appear justified as he has a abysmal 46.4 completion percentage and 74.1 quarterback rating. Another interesting stat is that Cutler has 2 touchdowns versus 13 interceptions when he is on his own side of the 50 yard line. What’s stranger is that his completion percentage is around 66.2 which leads me to believe that Jay is forcing the ball on his interceptions on that side of the field, something that will definitely need to be worked on in camp.

Something else that I found interesting was how well Cutler performs depending on if his team is up or down, and by how much. With his team ahead Cutler performs well with 87.7 rating when up by 1-8 points and a 82.4 when up by 9-16. Cutler does need to work on his ball security though because he has 6 touchdowns versus 5 interceptions. Strangely when down by 1-8 Cutler actually performs better with a 90.3 rating, but absolutely tanks when down by 9-16 points with a 68.0 rating. Also Cutler has a little more than double the passing attempts when behind versus being up. Than what is the oddest stat to me is how freaking good Cutler is when the score is tied. His QB rating is 110.4, he has 7 touchdowns versus 1 interception and a 69.0 completion percentage. The last stat I will throw at you guys is QB rating per quarter. Cutler is good in every quarter except for the 3rd quarter, where he has 2 touchdowns versus 5 interceptions and a QB rating of 74.9. His completion percentage though is 61.9 which leads me to believe that he is forcing throws on his interceptions since his completion percentage is relatively good.

Looking at all these various statistics and it appears to me that Cutler is a pretty good quarterback who is held back by his forcing of throws and terrible red zone performance. If Cutler is going to be a playoff bound quarterback he should probably be asked throw less times a game and work on long drives as he is abysmal when he is passing on his own side of the field.


MJA

A Look At Jay Cutler's Statistics (Re-boot)
This kind of got buried since I posted it about an hour before Mike got fired so I wanted to repost this because honestly I put a lot of time into it and I think it's interesting, I hope you find it to be too.

With all the anger and disappointment about the Bronco’s missing the playoffs there has been a lot of debate about Jay Cutler’s play. Some are praising him as Elway’s heir apparent while others are already demanding a replacement. I thought it would be interesting to take a look at all of Jay Cutler’s stats and see how they stack up with the rest of the league’s quarterbacks. First lets take a look at completions and attempts. If you take a look at Cutler’s completion percentage its at 62.3% and sticks him at tied for 14th in the league, but take a look at the amount of completions and attempts. He is 3rd in the league with completions at 384 and is second in the league with 616 passing attempts. In both those categories the top three are Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, and Cutler (Not in Correct Order). All three of their teams finished .500 or worse which leads me to believe that obscene passing attempts by a teams quarterback means that the quarterback is making up for a lack of a rushing attack, this is true for Brees and Warner whose teams rank 28th and 32nd in rushing respectively. Cutler on the other hand has a rushing attack that is ranked 12th in the league in yards and an incredible 2nd in the league in yards per carry at 4.8. It seems that the running-back carousel really did not hamper the offense as much as we all thought. Taking a look at touchdowns and interceptions Cutler really does need to work on his interception total as he has 18, which leaves him second behind Favre, but his touchdowns leaves him at 7th in the league at 25, which gives him a +7 turnover differential. Cutler also does a great job on passes over 20+ yards as he has 55, which puts him just behind Brees for second place. 40+ yards is a different issue though as he drops all the way down to 13th in the league.

I also wanted to give props to the offensive line who only let up 11 sacks on Cutler all year. Only Kerry Collins’s line did better at 8 sacks. Another interesting statistic I found was that in the first 20 passing attempts of the game Jay Cutler has around a 90.45 passer rating, but on attempts 21-40 he has around a 81 rating, his completion percentage also drops about 6-7 points after 20 attempts. I wonder if his type 1 diabetes is the cause for that? This is also reflected in his 1st half and 2nd half passer rating which is 87.4 and 84.7 respectively. Also all the complaints about his red-zone performance appear justified as he has a abysmal 46.4 completion percentage and 74.1 quarterback rating. Another interesting stat is that Cutler has 2 touchdowns versus 13 interceptions when he is on his own side of the 50 yard line. What’s stranger is that his completion percentage is around 66.2 which leads me to believe that Jay is forcing the ball on his interceptions on that side of the field, something that will definitely need to be worked on in camp.

Something else that I found interesting was how well Cutler performs depending on if his team is up or down, and by how much. With his team ahead Cutler performs well with 87.7 rating when up by 1-8 points and a 82.4 when up by 9-16. Cutler does need to work on his ball security though because he has 6 touchdowns versus 5 interceptions. Strangely when down by 1-8 Cutler actually performs better with a 90.3 rating, but absolutely tanks when down by 9-16 points with a 68.0 rating. Also Cutler has a little more than double the passing attempts when behind versus being up. Than what is the oddest stat to me is how freaking good Cutler is when the score is tied. His QB rating is 110.4, he has 7 touchdowns versus 1 interception and a 69.0 completion percentage. The last stat I will throw at you guys is QB rating per quarter. Cutler is good in every quarter except for the 3rd quarter, where he has 2 touchdowns versus 5 interceptions and a QB rating of 74.9. His completion percentage though is 61.9 which leads me to believe that he is forcing throws on his interceptions since his completion percentage is relatively good.

Looking at all these various statistics and it appears to me that Cutler is a pretty good quarterback who is held back by his forcing of throws and terrible red zone performance. If Cutler is going to be a playoff bound quarterback he should probably be asked throw less times a game and work on long drives as he is abysmal when he is passing on his own side of the field.


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[Simple Jaded]

Cut him and draft Tebow.......

[omac]

Cut him and draft Tebow.......

:D nice

Btw, nice find, Dean, and great post MJA! :salute:

[Watchthemiddle]

Cut him and draft Tebow.......

It looks like that will have to wait until next years draft.

This guy pretty much summed up my entire rap against Cutler.

:coffee: