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D1g1tal j1m
10-31-2011, 03:00 PM
If I were part of the F.O., Moreno would have played his last game as a Bronco yesterday. The stumbling and bumbling and the unnecessary spin moves everytime he gets away from the 1st wave of defenders is pathetic. The lack of a running game is contributing to our 3rd and longs and we simply can't run any play-action because the defense won't honor the run.

When our starting QB has to be asked to run draw plays for HIMSELF, that tells the defense to come get the QB.

Moreno makes me sad when he totes the rock for 2 yards....

BroncoNut
10-31-2011, 03:04 PM
yeah, me too. dont' like him that much anymore. cathches the ball well though, I can see him as a 3rd down back

BORDERLINE
10-31-2011, 03:39 PM
when I see RB like L.McCoy move and juke defenders then flat out, out run them. I wish we had a guy like that. You would think Moreno would have learned a bit from Willis but no he continued to be a slow and wonderfully ineffective RB for us. Trade him at years end for some new cleats and chin straps.

tomjonesrocks
10-31-2011, 03:43 PM
Moreno is a piece of shit.

Juriga72
10-31-2011, 03:46 PM
THREE first round picks by Mcdouchie.....and we have what for them? Tebow..meh I know its early.... BUT Ayers AND NO-show. I am so sad just thinking about it now.

Buff
10-31-2011, 03:46 PM
He is completely worthless. I'd rather cut him and bring in Jeremiah Johnson, or any other RB with a pulse. The guy is a terrible football player.

tomjonesrocks
10-31-2011, 03:48 PM
THREE first round picks by Mcdouchie.....and we have what for them? Tebow..meh I know its early.... BUT Ayers AND NO-show. I am so sad just thinking about it now.

McDaniels is a piece of shit.

broncohead
10-31-2011, 04:05 PM
THREE first round picks by Mcdouchie.....and we have what for them? Tebow..meh I know its early.... BUT Ayers AND NO-show. I am so sad just thinking about it now.

4 I thought

rationalfan
10-31-2011, 05:13 PM
moreno is a better running back than tebow is a quarterback; at least to this point.

I Eat Staples
10-31-2011, 05:16 PM
moreno is a better running back than tebow is a quarterback; at least to this point.

Irrelevant. Tebow is a terrible QB, Moreno is a terrible HB. There's no reason to compare them.

I'd keep Moreno as a 3rd down back though, at least for now.

Nomad
10-31-2011, 05:19 PM
The thread title reminded me of this commercial.........:lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgiUm4lQig

Moreno was better in college.

spikerman
10-31-2011, 05:20 PM
moreno is a better running back than tebow is a quarterback; at least to this point.

Maybe, but at this point Tebow is a better running back than Moreno is a running back.

rationalfan
10-31-2011, 06:04 PM
Maybe, but at this point Tebow is a better running back than Moreno is a running back.

that underscores the problems of each of them.

tomjonesrocks
10-31-2011, 11:22 PM
I'd keep Moreno as a 3rd down back though, at least for now.

Maybe it's just because I've been spoiled from watching Shanahan churn out 1,000 yard rushers from late round draft picks over the years, but I don't even see the appeal of Moreno as a 3rd down back unless his role on 3rd downs is blocking, something he's average at and many small 3rd down backs are terrible at.

Maybe it's me but I want *speed* from my 3rd down back. Ideally, blistering "take it to the house" type speed. Moreno's way too slow to be a 3rd down back, IMO.

He can catch and block adequately but can't get to the edge or run the ball up the middle. Or break tackles of any kind. We know he can celebrate up a storm when the team is down by 30 though. That's a very limited skillset that you can find in the deep rounds of almost any draft. To think the Broncos blew a first rounder on this guy makes me want to throw up.

ChampWJ
10-31-2011, 11:44 PM
He is completely worthless. I'd rather cut him and bring in Jeremiah Johnson, or any other RB with a pulse. The guy is a terrible football player.

But, but, but......he was a first round pick and doesn't break big runs, so he has to be a terrible player.

By god he better get 150 total yards and 2 TD's every week or he's a bust right?

Our fans make me sick. People have already made up their mind about Moreno and ignore anything positive he does. He doesn't get any regular carries to get in a rhythm but the guy had something like 14 carries and still ran for almost 5 ypc despite getting blown out. And you damn well know the defense was geared to force Tebow to pass (if you can call it that).

Some of you need to re-assess how a running back brings value to a team.

Unbelievable :rolleyes:

Medford Bronco
10-31-2011, 11:46 PM
As my friends say for their fantasy football back "no show" Moreno

btw McGahee on one leg is better. Too bad he had to have the horrible injury in college. He was as good as AP in college if not better. Credit to him for wanting it and being tough.

Broncos Mtnman
10-31-2011, 11:52 PM
Some of you need to re-assess how a running back brings value to a team.

Well, generally speaking, a running back brings value to a team when they can stay healthy, show leadership and play consistently.

I think it's safe to say the No-Show fails in every catagory.

He's another example of Mickey's failure as an evaluator of football talent.

:coffee:

dogfish
10-31-2011, 11:57 PM
knowshon makes his own mamma sad. . . .

BroncoTech
10-31-2011, 11:59 PM
But, but, but......he was a first round pick and doesn't break big runs, so he has to be a terrible player.

By god he better get 150 total yards and 2 TD's every week or he's a bust right?

Our fans make me sick. People have already made up their mind about Moreno and ignore anything positive he does. He doesn't get any regular carries to get in a rhythm but the guy had something like 14 carries and still ran for almost 5 ypc despite getting blown out. And you damn well know the defense was geared to force Tebow to pass (if you can call it that).

Some of you need to re-assess how a running back brings value to a team.

Unbelievable :rolleyes:

But scrub of the decade Lance Balls ran for a 10 yard average. Moreno got 14 of 20 hand offs so if he isn't getting the regular carries who is? The guy is horrible as a runner, okay as a blocker and has okay hands. But to keep a runner he needs to run. So I say don't keep him as a 3rd down back unless you want to see a lot of fourth downs.

ChampWJ
11-01-2011, 12:02 AM
He's another example of Mickey's failure as an evaluator of football talent.

:coffee:

I agree McDaniels botched a lot of picks, but he drafted Moreno about where he was rated by scouts and draft experts. It was considered a solid pick at the time and one at a position of need.

Also, you can't do anything about the injuries, it's just bad luck. And I'd like to hear your explanation of how he's not consistent. As far as leadership's concerned, I don't hear a lot of people demanding that from their running back.

ChampWJ
11-01-2011, 12:10 AM
But scrub of the decade Lance Balls ran for a 10 yard average. Moreno got 14 of 20 hand offs so if he isn't getting the regular carries who is? The guy is horrible as a runner, okay as a blocker and has okay hands. But to keep a runner he needs to run. So I say don't keep him as a 3rd down back unless you want to see a lot of fourth downs.

Go look at his career stats and tell me it's not respectable given his supporting cast, the offensive system and the general chaos around this team since he was drafted.

Horrible as a runner? Well if you are expecting Adrian Peterson or Terrell Davis then I guess. Because those guys come around so often.

Listen, I expected greatness from Moreno coming in, more so than most fans because of my college allegiance. So if anything I'm more dissapointed than most that he hasn't achieved that. But terrible football player, horrible runner? Give me a break. :tsk:

Broncos Mtnman
11-01-2011, 12:25 AM
I agree McDaniels botched a lot of picks, but he drafted Moreno about where he was rated by scouts and draft experts. It was considered a solid pick at the time and one at a position of need.

The Broncos still had Peyton Hillis, who had proven his value the year prior and based on his performance after Mickey traded him. Of all the Broncos needs after Shanny was fired, a first round pick on a running back was hardly a position of "need."


Also, you can't do anything about the injuries, it's just bad luck. And I'd like to hear your explanation of how he's not consistent.

Injuries are a matter of luck sometimes, but players who are difference makers in the NFL stay healthy or learn to play hurt.

A casual glance at his stats show his inconsistency, from games where he averages 2 yards a carry to games where he averages 4 or more.

His inconsistency is proven by the team's decision to start McGahee over No-Show. No exacty a ringing endorsement for a 1st round pick.


As far as leadership's concerned, I don't hear a lot of people demanding that from their running back.

I think the days of T.D. would prove otherwise.

:coffee:

Poet
11-01-2011, 12:41 AM
Yes, Mtman the wise, TD shows that all backs need to be leaders. :lol:

ChampWJ
11-01-2011, 12:54 AM
The Broncos still had Peyton Hillis, who had proven his value the year prior and based on his performance after Mickey traded him. Of all the Broncos needs after Shanny was fired, a first round pick on a running back was hardly a position of "need."

To an outsider (McDaniels) the RB depth chart would have appeared to be in shambles. Peyton Hillis? Yeah we were really set with the late round pick who had just had three good games in a system proven to turn anyone into a 1000 yard rusher. Who else did we have behind him? It was a huge position of need, even if you discount the fact that McDaniels planned on completely overhauling the blocking scheme and requiring different style backs than his predecessor.


A casual glance at his stats show his inconsistency, from games where he averages 2 yards a carry to games where he averages 4 or more.

That logic would hold water if we played the same defense every game.


His inconsistency is proven by the team's decision to start McGahee over No-Show. No exacty a ringing endorsement for a 1st round pick.

McGahee? The guy is a good back and I have always been a fan of his since he was at Miami. Where was he last game? Where is Hillis this year? Most any running back asked to carry the load nowadays ends up missing games. And that's OK, unless it's Moreno. Then it just means he's a bust.

silkamilkamonico
11-01-2011, 01:03 AM
I loved TD, but he was a product of John Elway. He couldn't even average 4 ypc after Elway retired before he got hurt, and Olandis Gary put up an amazing season behind the same team TD played below average with before his injury.

Knowshon is a great receiving RB. He is a terrible RB. He simply needs to be in a system like NO or GB where he isn't going to get a lot of touches, but different types of them.

sneakers
11-01-2011, 01:15 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_63UF7mE6K8c/SfZbKrJ-4OI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/6s0edQVoBy4/s320/knowshowncrack.jpg

ChampWJ
11-01-2011, 01:17 AM
He simply needs to be in a system like NO or GB where he isn't going to get a lot of touches, but different types of them.

That's been a huge issue here and wouldn't it be nice if we had a system like those teams? They have done a really poor job of varying the type of touches and not just for Moreno. The runs he got under McDaniels were much too predictable and almost stubborn in the downs and situation they were called.

I like to think Fox knows more about running the ball (McCoy I'm not sure) but Moreno just hasn't gotten enough touches in this "offense" to know if he will be used more in a way that suits his strengths.

Dzone
11-01-2011, 01:21 AM
Moreno has been a COLOSSAL disappointment. For a #12 pick? He has been pathetic. He should feel guilty picking up that paycheck for as little as he has contributed..nuh uh...Moreno totally blows as a football player . He is already worn down because he cant take the pounding. He is done and is one blown tendon away from splitzville. He is a disaster of monumental proportions!!

ChampWJ
11-01-2011, 01:36 AM
Moreno has been a COLOSSAL disappointment. For a #12 pick? He has been pathetic. He should feel guilty picking up that paycheck for as little as he has contributed..nuh uh...Moreno totally blows as a football player . He is already worn down because he cant take the pounding. He is done and is one blown tendon away from splitzville. He is a disaster of monumental proportions!!

He's really holding this sleeping juggernaut of a team back.

Thanks for the professional scouting report. I guess they'll cut him tomorrow.

:2thumbsdown:

sneakers
11-01-2011, 02:05 AM
On the bright side Ayers is turning into a dependable player on defense.

sportsparlour
11-01-2011, 03:19 PM
Go look at his career stats and tell me it's not respectable given his supporting cast, the offensive system and the general chaos around this team since he was drafted.

Horrible as a runner? Well if you are expecting Adrian Peterson or Terrell Davis then I guess. Because those guys come around so often.

Listen, I expected greatness from Moreno coming in, more so than most fans because of my college allegiance. So if anything I'm more dissapointed than most that he hasn't achieved that. But terrible football player, horrible runner? Give me a break. :tsk:

Terrell Davis was a 6th round pick and wasn't expected to be great. He just ended up being great. no show was a 1st round pick and expected to contribute alot more than he has. How many 1,000 yard seasons does he have? Here's a comparison of LeSean McCoy who was drafted in the 2nd round 53rd overall and No show who was drafted in 1st Round 12th overall. Now if No show isn't a bust he should have no problem putting up stats like a guy who plays in a passing offense and who was drafted 31 picks after him right?

Knowshon Moreno
1,849 Yards
616 Yards/Season
Career High: 947 Yards
12 TD

682 Yards Receiving
6 TD

8 Fumbles

LeSean McCoy
2,471 Yards
823 Yards/Season
Career High: 1,080 Yards
19 TD

1038 Yards Receiving
4 TD

2 Fumbles


I wont go as far as some others and say he is a bust. But it is VERY clear he has not performed up to the ability of a 12th overall pick. Here's some of the backs chosen after Knowshon. Moreno is about the same as Shonn Greene and Beanie Wells has been in their careers. It wasn't a great year for running backs. Moreno actually ranks 2nd in production of the backs below since coming into the league.

Rd 1 Donald Brown
Rd 1 Beanie Wells
Rd 2 LeSean McCoy
Rd 3 Shonn Greene
Rd 4 Mike Goodson
Rd 5 Javon Ringer
Rd 6 Bernard Scott

DenBronx
11-01-2011, 03:30 PM
I loved TD, but he was a product of John Elway. He couldn't even average 4 ypc after Elway retired before he got hurt, and Olandis Gary put up an amazing season behind the same team TD played below average with before his injury.

Knowshon is a great receiving RB. He is a terrible RB. He simply needs to be in a system like NO or GB where he isn't going to get a lot of touches, but different types of them.

You could say Rod Smith, Eddie Mac and Shannon Sharpe were all a product of Elway. But TD would have been great still if he wasnt injured by our OLineman.

Sharpe proved otherwise going to Balt and winning a SB. Elway never got over the hump intil he got a true RB like Davis. It took a whole complete team on both sides of the field for Elway to ever win it all. Yeah he took 3 very average teams to the SB but he dominated when he had guys like TD, Smith, Eddie and Sharpe in the huddle with him.

I still think he could have came back and won another SB in 1999.

DenBronx
11-01-2011, 03:33 PM
On the bright side Ayers is turning into a dependable player on defense.

He looks like any 2nd rounder should look. On the other hand Orakpo and Matthews have looked elite year after year. By the time Ayers contract wears off he will look like a late 1st rounder and demand a big contract and some other team will reap the benifits of our 1st round draft pick.

cmc0605
11-01-2011, 03:58 PM
It is not obvious that anyone could run in Denver right now. Moreno showed plenty of signs that he can play well when he was a consistent runner and when we had a threat down field with Lloyd (back when Orton was actually throwing well with McDaniels). No one can play well when your o-line is as bad, young, and inexperienced as ours, and especially when the other team has no respect for the pass. That means eight guys in the box and running into walls everytime.

Moreno can still actually be a very solid runningback.

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 03:58 PM
It is not obvious that anyone could run in Denver right now. Moreno showed plenty of signs that he can play well when he was a consistent runner and when we had a threat down field with Lloyd (back when Orton was actually throwing well with McDaniels). No one can play well when your o-line is as bad, young, and inexperienced as ours, and especially when the other team has no respect for the pass. That means eight guys in the box and running into walls everytime.

Moreno can still actually be a very solid runningback.

Is that why MaGhee has had 3 or 4 100 yard games?

cmc0605
11-01-2011, 04:14 PM
Is that why MaGhee has had 3 or 4 100 yard games?

McGahee is a good back too, but it is going to be hard to expect that consistently, and probably even moreso with Tebow under center than it is with Orton. You can get good gains with a stacked front (such as on shotgun draw plays, if you can get past the first wave of defenders), but it cannot be implemented as the way we consistently win games and threaten other teams in our situation. Also, Moreno never had the chance to show he wouldn't have gotten those 100 yard games as well- very little sample size to speak of this season. I do like the Moreno-McGahee combo, but I see no evidence that Moreno is as bad as some people think. I remember last season (albeit different coaching) when he was out for a few weeks, and it was a good play when we got past the line of scrimmage running the ball.

Buff
11-01-2011, 04:15 PM
For the life of me, I don't understand how or why there are still people defending Moreno.

He is an ok 3rd down back who might make sense if we were paying him the veteran minimum. Aside from that, he is useless. His skills are subpar: He can't find holes. He is slow. He is injury prone. I don't know what more you can say about him.

G_Money
11-01-2011, 04:17 PM
Rd 1 Donald Brown
Rd 1 Beanie Wells
Rd 2 LeSean McCoy
Rd 3 Shonn Greene
Rd 4 Mike Goodson
Rd 5 Javon Ringer
Rd 6 Bernard Scott

I wanted McCoy or Greene BADLY. I would have taken Brown later, but not when he was drafted. Didn't want Wells.

And while I wouldn't have drafted Moreno where we did, I thought he was absolutely gonna be a Pro Bowler. I think I ranked the pick an A- or something silly like that, simply because he showed a really good center of gravity in college, hit the holes hard, didn't have an extra gear necessarily but like TD didn't really need one...

My concern with him was injuries. Well THAT came true, at least. :mad:

But I was not expecting to get Tatum Bell back on the squad with a first round pick instead of a 2nd this time. The holes he was running through in college were big as barn doors so he could find em. No such luck in the pros.

Can't move a pile, has no vision, jukes all over the field instead of running ahead for more yards...ugh.

That really hurts.

~G

honz
11-01-2011, 06:10 PM
So you guys are saying I should change my avy and my adopted Bronco?

Dzone
11-01-2011, 06:17 PM
So you guys are saying I should change my avy and my adopted Bronco?
Definitely. I was wrong about Moreno. I said he was a brilliant pick we he got drafted. We finally all have to accept the cold hard facts:Moreno is not any good. Sorry.We are just as disappointed as you are.

T.K.O.
11-01-2011, 06:23 PM
it will be interesting to see if Fox prefers to use Ball & a broken handed back 1 week after surgery or our #12 pick this week:eek:

dogfish
11-01-2011, 06:44 PM
So you guys are saying I should change my avy and my adopted Bronco?

yes. . .


:welcome:

Shazam!
11-01-2011, 09:48 PM
...just another disgusting addition to the pile of shit created by McD that is our Denver Broncos.

Yes, it's all Tebow's fault for sucking so bad, but this team couldn't effectively run out of the stadium if it were on fire.

Locnar
11-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Knowshon's the clap McDaniels gave to us.

bcbronc
11-01-2011, 11:23 PM
Moreno actually ranks 2nd in production of the backs below since coming into the league.



And yet he's a bust and a terrible football player. I don't get it.

Yes, McCoy is the best back of that draft class at this point. He's produced 23 TDs so far in his career. Moreno has produced 18, and he doesn't play on anywhere near as good a team.

I don't get why Moreno has to be a 1300-yard back that goes to the Pro-Bowl or else he's useless. If he could ever stay healthy he's at worst a decent complementary/3rd down back that can find the endzone and catch out of the backfield. He's still a useful player, even if he isn't a true #1 RB.

I know, you don't use the #12 pick on "useful players" blah blah blah. Where he was picked is completely irrelevant at this point. You get first round busts and you get 5th round HOFers. At this point all that matters is what he can contribute to the team and there is a role for him even if he's not durable enough for that role to be the go-to guy.

ChampWJ
11-02-2011, 12:55 AM
it will be interesting to see if Fox prefers to use Ball & a broken handed back 1 week after surgery or our #12 pick this week:eek:

Yeah Fox is really proving he knows how to put the best players on the field.

See: Quarterback

tomjonesrocks
11-02-2011, 01:33 AM
On the bright side Ayers is turning into a dependable player on defense.

I assume you are making a joke here..

tomjonesrocks
11-02-2011, 01:35 AM
But, but, but......he was a first round pick and doesn't break big runs, so he has to be a terrible player.

I really wish I had the effort and time to put together a video collage of Moreno's work in the open field, when he had 5 yards of open field on all sides to make something happen.

I honestly can't really think of any backs of Moreno's size and stature that are less-elusive. He's one of the worst open-field runners in the NFL. If you could name one worse in that department of his size and stature (e.g., backs with similar limited power), I'd be open to hearing it. Not a NFL athlete, period--and too small to be of any use in other ways.

Yep, that sucks.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 01:36 AM
I assume you are making a joke here..

Actually he's dead on, Ayers has been the most solid defensive lineman Denver has, even above Bunkley. Who could have imagined a day when Ayers and a no name liked Bunkley would be better then Dumervil and Thomas? But it is what it is.