Bleak Draft Positioning

[vandammage13]

I was just looking at the standings, and I was surprised to find that as crappy as this team is, we are only tied for the 8th worst winning percentage in the league.

When you look at the teams that are ahead of us right now, I could see Luck, Jones, and possibly even Barkley all being gone before we even got a chance to pick if the draft were held today.

That would leave us getting a middle of the road, Blaine Gabbert type prospect...I really don't like the sound of that.

Of course, you could always package picks to move up, but for as many holes that this team has, it would not be ideal to have to give up picks to move up.

If Tebow doesn't pan out (and all indications so far is that the deck is heavily stacked against that) this probably couldn't be a worse year to hope to get a top tier QB prospect in the draft, as I think the lack of training camp has widened the gap between the haves and the have-nots, as there seems to be no parody in the NFL this year.

I guess what I'm getting at is that as crappy as this team is, there have been at least 5 teams that have been worse thus far, and many of them could be looking to upgrade at QB just as we might be....

I know this is supposedly a deep QB draft class, but historically speaking, after the first 2 or 3 guys are taken, the odds of you landing a franchise QB diminish greatly.

If Tebow continues to stink it up, we may have to sign a stop gap guy for one more year or even go with Tebow another year and just use the picks on other needs. EFX has to score on whatever QB they decide to draft, and if they can't get him this year, it might not be worth risking the picking on a guy youre not very high on just for the sake of getting new QB.

[chazoe60]

By the end of the year we'll be picking in the top three.

We won't win another game.

[BORDERLINE]

By the end of the year we'll be picking in the top three.

We won't win another game.

Could be right.

Hope your wrong. I still want us to win games

[DenBronx]

we will somehow find a way to play ourselves out of the top 10.



and i hope to god we dont draft barkley. we might as well trade for jimmy claussen.

[vandammage13]

By the end of the year we'll be picking in the top three.

We won't win another game.

You might be right, but there are several other teams out there who's prospects of winning are just as bleak as ours.

[Nick]

RG3 :beer:

[TXBRONC]

The season isn't over there is no telling where we'll end up by the end of the season.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[GEM]

The worst feeling in the world....week 9 and we are talking draft position. :(

[Jsteve01]

I'd take RG3 over Barkley and possibly Jones all day long.

[dogfish]

The worst feeling in the world....week 9 and we are talking draft position. :(

hey, only two more months to get through before the off-season. . .

:beer:


thanks a friggin' lot, bowlen!

[CoachChaz]

we will somehow find a way to play ourselves out of the top 10.



and i hope to god we dont draft barkley. we might as well trade for jimmy claussen.

There were people that said the same about Christian Ponder.

[Lancane]

There were people that said the same about Christian Ponder.

Not to mention Andy Dalton...

[tomjonesrocks]

In a sense we blew it by winning in Miami. I still think Denver is the worst team in the league.

It's clear they probably need to go the Vikings route now. Fill every other hole you can outside of QB and become a destination where free agents want to come. Become a place where you are a "QB away" from real success.

Luck is out--just plan on many years of futility.

[CoachChaz]

Not to mention Andy Dalton...

Dalton didnt even get that much respect.

I guess I just get tired of people judging a player's abilities based on where he goes to school. I can see having questions about the level of competition a player faces...but dogging on a guy becuase he goes to a school you dont like, etc. It's just stupid and like it or not...too many do it.

We all make good and bad guesses when it comes to talent. I said Ponder would be a good QB and most everyone else, scoffed. Lucky me. I also said Royal was overrated when we drafted him...hmmm...

On the other hand...I really liked Chad Jackson coming out of college. OOPS. And there are many more like that. It's 50/50...but base it on what you see and not what colors the kid is wearing or what the media says about someone.

Best player since Manning...as good as Jimmy Claussen...the next Ryan Leaf.

It's weak. Offer something besides some lame comparisons people

[CoachChaz]

In a sense we blew it by winning in Miami. I still think Denver is the worst team in the league.

It's clear they probably need to go the Vikings route now. Fill every other hole you can outside of QB and become a destination where free agents want to come. Become a place where you are a "QB away" from real success.

Luck is out--just plan on many years of futility.

The futility is a result of not getting Luck...or a result of spending the draft picks on other positions?

[BroncoNut]

In a sense we blew it by winning in Miami. I still think Denver is the worst team in the league. It's clear they probably need to go the Vikings route now. Fill every other hole you can outside of QB and become a destination where free agents want to come. Become a place where you are a "QB away" from real success.

Luck is out--just plan on many years of futility.

I do too. I really do. what a fluke that Miami win was.

[vandammage13]

I do too. I really do. what a fluke that Miami win was.

Guys...we are bad...really bad, but if you think we are the worst team in the league then you obviously haven't seen Indy play this year.

[Lancane]

Guys...we are bad...really bad, but if you think we are the worst team in the league then you obviously haven't seen Indy play this year.

Van, this is the worst stretch for the Broncos since before John Ralston coached this team in the early 70's (think about that), so for some of us, no matter the record we are the worst team in the league despite the rest.

[BroncoNut]

Guys...we are bad...really bad, but if you think we are the worst team in the league then you obviously haven't seen Indy play this year.

I've got to consider that. I haven't seen Indy or Minnesota really. It's difficult to imagine though. I would say that any team in the league would have at least a decent shot in beating us

[vandammage13]

Van, this is the worst stretch for the Broncos since before John Ralston coached this team in the early 70's (think about that), so for some of us, no matter the record we are the worst team in the league despite the rest.

I understand that, but it still doesn't make it so...

Fandom can make you think things are worse than they are or better than they are, but fact of the matter is things could be worse...much worse.

I remember that same team that schellacked us yesterday was the same team that went 0-16 and had their QB running out of the back of the endzone for a safety on a passing play just a few years ago...

[NightTerror218]

Jones looked really good this week, RGIII looked decent against a real team. Barkley was on same page as RGIII.

[tomjonesrocks]

I've got to consider that. I haven't seen Indy or Minnesota really. It's difficult to imagine though. I would say that any team in the league would have at least a decent shot in beating us

If Manning's career really is over, Indy may just barely be worse than Denver. If Manning recovers and he's back next season, they were only temporarily the worst--just long enough to secure another 15 years of success with Luck.

[CoachChaz]

If Manning's career really is over, Indy may just barely be worse than Denver. If Manning recovers and he's back next season, they were only temporarily the worst--just long enough to secure another 15 years of success with Luck.

Sorry...but you dont give up 63 points and lose every game because ONE aspect of your team's game is suffering. They are going to need a lot more than Luck to get back to prominence.

[CoachChaz]

Jones looked really good this week, RGIII looked decent against a real team. Barkley was on same page as RGIII.

Considering the circumstances, I think RGIII and Barkley looked really good.

Jones was exceptional...but I think K State was severely overrated.

How about Case Keenum. I dont care if it was Rice...534 yards and 9 TD's is kicking ass.

[Lancane]

Jones looked really good this week, RGIII looked decent against a real team. Barkley was on same page as RGIII.


NDS - 2011 4th Quarter NFL Draft Quarterback Rankings

1. Andrew Luck - Stanford (Top 3 Pick)
2. Matt Barkley - Southern California (Top 10 Pick)
3. Landry Jones - Oklahoma (Top 10 Pick)
4. Robert Griffin III - Baylor (Top 20 Pick)
5. Tyler Wilson - Arkansas (Top 25 Pick)
6. Brock Osweiler - Arizona State (Top 25 Pick)
7. Ryan Tannehill - Texas A&M (Top 40 Pick)
8. Nick Foles - Arizona (Top 45 Pick)
9. Kirk Cousins - Michigan State (Top 65 Pick)
10. Brandon Weeden - Oklahoma State (Top 65 Pick)

11. Chandler Harnish - Northern Illinois (Top 100 Pick)
12. Dominique Davis - East Carolina (Top 100 Pick)
13. Kellen Moore - Boise State (Top 125 Pick)
14. Case Keenum - Houston (Top 125 Pick)
15. Ryan Lindley - San Diego State (Top 150 Pick)
16. John Brantley - Florida (Top 200 Pick)
17. Jarrett Lee - Louisiana State (Top 200 Pick)
18. Patrick Witt - Yale (Top 200 Pick)
19. Austin Davis - Southern Miss (Top 225 Pick)
20. G.J. Kinne - Tulsa (Top 225 Pick)

Will likely change after the season and before the combine.

[NightTerror218]

Will likely change after the season and before the combine.

I am most keen on Jones and Luck. I think Barkley is the next Quinn, RGIII puts up great numbers against medicore teams and has decent numbers against good teams.

Can we package Tebow along with some other picks to Miami for #1? No matter how much I like Tebow, he is not improving enough. He is not playing like a potential starter. I think he needs to more time to get a better evaluation, he has glimpses of what it takes.

maybe we can package Fox/Tebow plus others for Coher and #1 pick

[silkamilkamonico]

I am most keen on Jones and Luck. I think Barkley is the next Quinn, RGIII puts up great numbers against medicore teams and has decent numbers against good teams.

Can we package Tebow along with some other picks to Miami for #1? No matter how much I like Tebow, he is not improving enough. He is not playing like a potential starter. I think he needs to more time to get a better evaluation, he has glimpses of what it takes.

maybe we can package Fox/Tebow plus others for Coher and #1 pick

I am most intrigued with Jones and Luck. Barkley is a great character kid who does have potential but I think of him, I think of Sanchez...no thanks. I am not enamored at all with RGIII.

I fear a worse case scenario happening here. We have 2 wins. Indy isn't going to win 2 games this season I don't think. Miami would have to win 3 games for us to draft before them and we would have to lose out.

We could finish 2-14, and very well miss out on the top 2 QB prospects in the draft. What a nightmare.

[Jsteve01]

Will likely change after the season and before the combine.

whose list is this?

[Jsteve01]

I am most intrigued with Jones and Luck. Barkley is a great character kid who does have potential but I think of him, I think of Sanchez...no thanks. I am not enamored at all with RGIII.

I fear a worse case scenario happening here. We have 2 wins. Indy isn't going to win 2 games this season I don't think. Miami would have to win 3 games for us to draft before them and we would have to lose out.

We could finish 2-14, and very well miss out on the top 2 QB prospects in the draft. What a nightmare.

What don't you like about RG3?

[Lancane]

Luck reminds me a lot of Tom Brady, he can make all the throws, has a solid arm, he's sure footed and his accuracy is off the charts.

After Luck, I believe Landry Jones is the best quarterback prospect, he reminds me of a lot of Jake Plummer during his collegiate years, and he also reminds me a of Jay Cutler, at least regarding the quiet demeanor and the big arm.

Barkley is still a solid prospect, he's like Mark Sanchez, but has a better arm and behind Luck the most accurate quarterback.

Griffin has solid upside, he's got a cannon arm, not as big as Jones but close. Of all quarterbacks I've seen in the NFL over the last few decades, I'd say he reminds me of Randall Cunningham.

Wilson is an interesting prospect and if he enters the draft he'll be going head to head with Griffin and maybe Barkley to be the third or fourth to be taken. Has solid mechanics, a good arm and decisive accuracy similar to Rodgers and Barkley.

As for Osweiler, he's a freakish prospect, at 6-8 and 240lbs. he's got a physique that's unusual like Tebow, his height gives him a unique view of the field, plus a throw that's hard to bat down, a pretty big arm and decent accuracy.

[Nick]

I'm sold on Luck and RG3 and Jones has looked a lot better this year not sold on him just yet.

Man oh man what RG3 would do on Jones's team though.

[Cugel]

There were people that said the same about Christian Ponder.

I was not one of them. Ponder looked really good during his pro-days. Once he had surgery on that shoulder and got an OK from the medical report you had to like his chances.

I expect him to be a very good QB in the NFL before too long. He has the ability to make all the throws.

[Cugel]

I do too. I really do. what a fluke that Miami win was.

No shit! All the defender had to do was wait for the ball to travel 10 yards on the onside kick THEN catch it instead of coming UP to FIVE yards where he's totally surrounded by Denver players.

One of those players was going to touch the ball before it traveled 10 yards and Miami was going to get the ball back and run out the clock.

Same with the strip of the ball in overtime. Guy should know to hold the ball with both hands in that situation.

Then there was the idiot decision to go for 2. I said right there "oh, God! They just blew it!" I had the strangest feeling that that extra point would wind up costing them the game.

It seemed strange at the time with Miami up by 15, but that's exactly how it turned out too. :coffee:

[weazel]

I think we get the 3rd pick overall and out front office ****s it up and draft a tight end that was projected to be picked in the 5th round. They have to stay the course

[Cugel]

I think everybody misses it because they never look outside the Broncos forum, but here's a LONG discussion of handicapping the "Suck for Luck (http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283138)" Sweepstakes:

Hoptard's latest post is worth quoting in case you missed it:


THE FRONTRUNNERS

(0-8) Indianapolis Colts 3:1

With a combined score of 89-17 in their last two games plus the strength of schedule advantage, the Colts would appear to be in the driver's seat right now. They clearly have no will to win at all. They still have to survive two games against Jacksonville and one against Carolina.

(0-7) Miami Dolphins 4:1

Poor saps. They've stepped up with a total river of suckage, and it still may not be good for better than second place. They certainly don't have any more talent than Indy, but they at least have a bit of heart left. Their last two losses have been by a combined total of six points-- Indy's last two have been by more than sixty. If the Fish keep playing hard, they might even accidentally squeeze out a win against the likes of Washington or KC. I won't hold my breath, though. In any case, this thing would seem to be pretty much down to a two-horse race short of the Rams getting the pick and trading it.

THE FIELD

(2-5) Denver Broncos 20:1

Outside of those two top contenders, we need him worse than anyone. At least the Jags and Vikes have young guys to develop. We look like we'll be within striking range-- it's a long shot, but if any team were to sell the farm for Luck, I think it would probably be us.

(2-6) Minnesota Vikings and (2-6) Jacksonville Jaguars 25:1

Barring any unlikely crazy winning streaks from Miami or Indy, these guys are looking more like also-rans every week. Especially with Ponder looking pretty good.

(2-5) Seattle Seahawks 35:1

They're bad enough to hang around and keep the favorites on their toes, but probably not more dangerous than that at this point. Those early wins in the bank coupled with a cake-soft schedule crippled their chances out of the gate. They're sucking for Barkley, pencil it in.


DARKHORSES

(3-4) Cleveland Browns 100:1

(2-6) Arizona Cardinals 125:1

(3-4) Washington Redskins 175:1

(1-7) St. Louis Rams 200:1

[Cugel]

I would argue that IF the Rams got the top pick they would trade Bradford and take Luck.

Why not? Luck would cost them about $25 million less for one thing and he's a better prospect.

If you believe Luck is the next John Elway would you pass him up and then watch him lead some other team to the SB on TV?

That said, I doubt they get the chance. Dolphins and Colts look to be both going 0-16 or 1-15. Probably one of those teams will lose out and it's looking like the Colts baring a miracle turn-around.

I don't think they WANT to win at all. They've totally given up all hope and are just playing out the season.

[Lancane]

Last year was a better quarterback draft then people want to admit, Ponder, Newton and Dalton all look like the real deal. I think Jake Locker will be solid once he starts. Gabbert I think would have done well had he been drafted by a team with a better offensive foundation, but I think he's struggling with a team who's offense is not the ideal fit for his abilities. If Jacksonville and Denver traded, Tebow for Gabbert straight up, both quarterbacks and teams would benefit from the trade. Tebow is a better fit for their offense and Gabbert is a better fit for our offense.

[Cugel]

But Lancane, NEXT year is being likened to the QB class of 1983 with Elway, Marino and Jim Kelly.

We all know about Luck and Barkley but there are several other good QBs in the mix. Denver can draft a good one if they draft in the top 5.

And to do that all they have to do is keep playing Tebow! :beer:

[Nomad]

And to do that all they have to do is keep playing Tebow! :beer:

They could play either QB...Orton or Quinn and get the same results. Possibly Webber is the unknown now, but Tebow will get his 9 games.

Pretty much the BRONCOS as of now, don't have any good QBs.

[Dirk]

My take is that if Tebow can't handle the job. You mortgage THIS UPCOMING draft and take luck. Then use the next few to shore it all up. It would be worth it IMO.

[Lancane]

But Lancane, NEXT year is being likened to the QB class of 1983 with Elway, Marino and Jim Kelly.

We all know about Luck and Barkley but there are several other good QBs in the mix. Denver can draft a good one if they draft in the top 5.

And to do that all they have to do is keep playing Tebow! :beer:

Oh, I completely agree with you Cugel, I just find it ironic that Denver drafted Tebow who is a better fit for Jacksonville's offense (where he'd be more beloved) and they drafted Gabbert who is a better fit for our offense and both look like utter horseshit with the teams that drafted them.

As for the 2012 Draft, depending on who declares for the draft because of the number of teams in need of a quarterback, that it could well turn out to be the best class since the 83' draft. But right now it's a guessing game regarding who will declare.

[Nomad]

My take is that if Tebow can't handle the job. You mortgage THIS UPCOMING draft and take luck. Then use the next few to shore it all up. It would be worth it IMO.

No one will sell.....I guarantee.

[Dirk]

No one will sell.....I guarantee.

One can hope brother....one can hope.

If we packaged our whole draft....Orton and Tebow/Quinn....someone would bite.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Sorry...but you dont give up 63 points and lose every game because ONE aspect of your team's game is suffering. They are going to need a lot more than Luck to get back to prominence.

Exactly. Manning is a big part of their problem, but Caldwell is an absolutely terrible coach. The second Dungy retired, Peyton Manning became the QB, HC, O-coordinator, and basically the head honcho around there.

Losing Manning meant they had no shot at the playoffs, but Caldwell's coaching has them headed for 0-16.

[Nomad]

One can hope brother....one can hope.

If we packaged our whole draft....Orton and Tebow/Quinn....someone would bite.

You'd need alot more than a Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trade to get a deal done!

[Dirk]

You'd need alot more than a Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trade to get a deal done!

Quit raining on my parade dammit! :mad:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

No one will sell.....I guarantee.

That's where Elway makes his money. Elway needs to convince Luck that we want him and will do whatever it takes to get him. All Luck has to do is refuse to play for whoever has the #1 overall pick (unless it's us) and that will force a trade. We unload pretty much our whole draft and maybe a player or two and that team will take it.

It will set our rebuild back for a year or two, but we'd have our long-term franchise QB. They key is John working that Stanford connection ahead of time... Luck has to refuse to play for anyone but us. Eventually, he'll get his way. His cost will be extremely high, but if we really want him, we have a chance.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

You'd need alot more than a Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams trade to get a deal done!

That depends on Luck. Like Eli Manning and Elway before him, he can just refuse to play for whoever drafts him and force a trade. That's about the only hope we've got unless Curt "Cobain" Painter actually learns how to play QB.

[Nomad]

That's where Elway makes his money. Elway needs to convince Luck that we want him and will do whatever it takes to get him. All Luck has to do is refuse to play for whoever has the #1 overall pick (unless it's us) and that will force a trade. We unload pretty much our whole draft and maybe a player or two and that team will take it.

It will set our rebuild back for a year or two, but we'd have our long-term franchise QB. They key is John working that Stanford connection ahead of time... Luck has to refuse to play for anyone but us. Eventually, he'll get his way. His cost will be extremely high, but if we really want him, we have a chance.

Is and would Luck be that dedicated to Elway when he'll have Peyton Manning to work with as well, though Denver is far better than Indy as far as location. Elway better be able to sell ice cubes to Eskimos!

[Jsteve01]

If it comes out Elway tampered with Luck, can you imagine the scandal?

[NorCalBronco7]

I would trade the Broncos entire draft class in 12 to get Luck, without hesitation.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I would trade the Broncos entire draft class in 12 to get Luck, without hesitation.

Most people would. I wouldn't be against it at this point if Tebow doesn't improve.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If it comes out Elway tampered with Luck, can you imagine the scandal?

Ahh, but all that stuff ends the second he declares for the draft and hires an agent. There's a looong time between then and the draft. During that time, Luck is free to do whatever he wants.

[NightTerror218]

Last year was a better quarterback draft then people want to admit, Ponder, Newton and Dalton all look like the real deal. I think Jake Locker will be solid once he starts. Gabbert I think would have done well had he been drafted by a team with a better offensive foundation, but I think he's struggling with a team who's offense is not the ideal fit for his abilities. If Jacksonville and Denver traded, Tebow for Gabbert straight up, both quarterbacks and teams would benefit from the trade. Tebow is a better fit for their offense and Gabbert is a better fit for our offense.

Dont forget Kierpatrick (49er dude) and Mallet behind Brady.

[Lancane]

If it comes out Elway tampered with Luck, can you imagine the scandal?

I think Luck has already put himself in a position for such a move, not on purpose at least I don't believe. But it wasn't even three weeks back and Andrew Luck told the press he found the 'Suck for Luck' campaigns to be disgraceful. Both Indianapolis and Miami have fans who're so enamored in such campaigns they've had T-shirts made stating as much.

Here is something ironic though, should Indianapolis draft Luck and he refuses to play for them, demanding a trade. Miami would have likely already picked someone with their pick, leaving Denver and a couple others favorite trading partners. However if Denver did pull off such a trade, people would be shocked that not once but twice a Stanford quarterback drafted by them demanded a trade to only end up in Denver!

Do I believe Luck is going to demand to be traded? No, I don't, but I could be wrong.

[NightTerror218]

I think Luck has already put himself in a position for such a move, not on purpose at least I don't believe. But it wasn't even three weeks back and Andrew Luck told the press he found the 'Suck for Luck' campaigns to be disgraceful. Both Indianapolis and Miami have fans who're so enamored in such campaigns they've had T-shirts made stating as much.

Here is something ironic though, should Indianapolis draft Luck and he refuses to play for them, demanding a trade. Miami would have likely already picked someone with their pick, leaving Denver and a couple others favorite trading partners. However if Denver did pull off such a trade, people would be shocked that not once but twice a Stanford quarterback drafted by them demanded a trade to only end up in Denver!

Do I believe Luck is going to demand to be traded? No, I don't, but I could be wrong.

I have already hear a lot of speculation about Luck pulling that move. Eli Manning was the last to do it. There was an article on ESPN about it since he will be in such demand that he could do that. Elway also had the baseball career to fall back on when he pulled that move.

[Dirk]

I have already hear a lot of speculation about Luck pulling that move. Eli Manning was the last to do it. There was an article on ESPN about it since he will be in such demand that he could do that. Elway also had the baseball career to fall back on when he pulled that move.

And Luck has another year of college ball to fall back on. I can only hope!

[Lancane]

I have already hear a lot of speculation about Luck pulling that move. Eli Manning was the last to do it. There was an article on ESPN about it since he will be in such demand that he could do that. Elway also had the baseball career to fall back on when he pulled that move.

Who knows? Maybe he'll threaten to go play in the CFL or UFL for a season or two, you never know.

[Nomad]

While you guys are daydreaming...I'm sure if Luck were to do that his ideal team would be to find a way and stay in the Bay Area and play for Harbaugh and the 49ers!

[Lancane]

While you guys are daydreaming...I'm sure if Luck were to do that his ideal team would be to find a way and stay in the Bay Area and play for Harbaugh and the 49ers!

Alex Smith his having a career year, and they have a young quarterback that Harbaugh loves behind him on the roster...so I don't see that happening!

Closest he might get to the bay area is playing for Seattle! ;)

[Nomad]

Alex Smith his having a career year, and they have a young quarterback that Harbaugh loves behind him on the roster...so I don't see that happening!

Closest he might get to the bay area is playing for Seattle! ;)

lol...Harbaugh had a chance to get Luck....Smith may be on the first flight to Seattle. Oh well, in the end, Luck will be learning from PM!