Elway's Take

[TXBRONC]

Vic Lombardi just asked Elway if he thought Tebwo made any progress from last week to the this week. He said no.

To be fair he said the play calliing could have been a little better and well as the play of everyone else. However, he also said playing will only take you so far you still have to execute plays and you've got to convert 3rd downs or you will not win in this League. Please understand this isn't verbatim but I think I got the basic jist.

For anyone that things going back to Orton is a solution. We weren't scoring points with Orton or converting 3rd downs within in line up either. Anyway one that thinks that ought to go back and look at the first four games.

[Lancane]

Vic Lombardi just asked Elway if he thought Tebwo made any progress from last week to the this week. He said no.

To be fair he said the play calliing could have been a little better and well as the play of everyone else. However, he also said playing will only take you so far you still have to execute plays and you've got to convert 3rd downs or you will not win in this League. Please understand this isn't verbatim but I think I got the basic jist.

For anyone that things going back to Orton is a solution. We weren't scoring points with Orton or converting 3rd downs within in line up either. Anyway one that thinks that ought to go back and look at the first four games.

Can you say "With Denver's first overall pick"?...I can and happily so! :D

[BroncoAV06]

When the majority of 3rd downs are 3rd and long no one will be looking good on conversions.

[Northman]

I agree with John, i dont think he progressed but its only the 5th game for him. See how the rest of the year goes, if he doesnt improve than we make a play for a new QB which is ok by me. We need to fix that position more than any other right now.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I thought he threw a little better. Not as many balls that were 10 ft above the receiver. He was still inaccurate overall and was not seeing open receivers. Part of this is being that it's his 5th game, but the other part is that he just isn't that good. Can Tebow get better is the big question to me?

I think that EFX has to draft a QB in the first two rounds (and probably with their 1st pick) just to ensure that they can get a quality NFL starter at QB. Hopefully they draft a star and Tebow continue to develop and we have a problem figuring out who to keep.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Another topic for Elway. I know it's still really early, but I haven't really been impressed by any of their draft picks other than Von Miller, and he is kind of a given since he was picked #2 overall. Moore has been almost invisible, Franklin hasn't looked good at pass protection. Irving hasn't seen the field. The two tight ends haven't done anything.

They have another year or two to improve, but they haven't hit any home runs other than Miller yet.

[TXBRONC]

When the majority of 3rd downs are 3rd and long no one will be looking good on conversions.

Well you still have to conncect on passes. There is no way around it.

As North said Tebow is still very inexperienced.

[TXBRONC]

I thought he threw a little better. Not as many balls that were 10 ft above the receiver. He was still inaccurate overall and was not seeing open receivers. Part of this is being that it's his 5th game, but the other part is that he just isn't that good. Can Tebow get better is the big question to me?

I think that EFX has to draft a QB in the first two rounds (and probably with their 1st pick) just to ensure that they can get a quality NFL starter at QB. Hopefully they draft a star and Tebow continue to develop and we have a problem figuring out who to keep.

It's looking that way to me as well.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Here is what John said this morning - under ticket replay

http://www.denverssportsstation.com/

[Buff]

Yep, get ready to take another QB high in the draft.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Yep, get ready to take another QB high in the draft.

The good thing is that the 2012 draft looks pretty good from a QB perspective. It sucks that we will not get Luck, but I think 3 or 4 of the other QB's could be good NFL starter material. I really want a future HOFer, but that will take some luck (probably literally).

[claymore]

Another topic for Elway. I know it's still really early, but I haven't really been impressed by any of their draft picks other than Von Miller, and he is kind of a given since he was picked #2 overall. Moore has been almost invisible, Franklin hasn't looked good at pass protection. Irving hasn't seen the field. The two tight ends haven't done anything.

They have another year or two to improve, but they haven't hit any home runs other than Miller yet.

Its hard to expect the rookies to shine when all of our vets suck ****. Not saying they are world beaters, but Its hard to smell like roses when your surrounded by shit.

[Lancane]

Here is what John said this morning - under ticket replay

http://www.denverssportsstation.com/

I don't think Elway is happy at all IMHO. Not with Tebow or the coaching staff!

[Buff]

Its hard to expect the rookies to shine when all of our vets suck ****. Not saying they are world beaters, but Its hard to smell like roses when your surrounded by shit.

It's also hard to smell like roses when you aren't a legit NFL rose.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Its hard to expect the rookies to shine when all of our vets suck ****. Not saying they are world beaters, but Its hard to smell like roses when your surrounded by shit.

Yea, but if they were future pro-bowlers, they would be getting tackles and making plays. No matter how bad the team is.

Patrick Willis and DeMarco Ryan looked pretty damn good on bad defensive squads as rookies. So did Suh. Miller should look just as good as those guys. He really doesn't at this point.

[chazoe60]

I don't think Elway is happy at all IMHO. Not with Tebow or the coaching staff!

He has no one but himself to blame for the coaching staff

[BigDaddyBronco]

I don't think Elway is happy at all IMHO. Not with Tebow or the coaching staff!

He shouldn't have hired Fox and kept McCoy then. If we have a 5 year rebuild it's on Elway.

[TXBRONC]

Another topic for Elway. I know it's still really early, but I haven't really been impressed by any of their draft picks other than Von Miller, and he is kind of a given since he was picked #2 overall. Moore has been almost invisible, Franklin hasn't looked good at pass protection. Irving hasn't seen the field. The two tight ends haven't done anything.

They have another year or two to improve, but they haven't hit any home runs other than Miller yet.

I think much it of it goes back to not having an offseason.

Also when two veterans in your secondary let a receiver stand in the end zone with NO ONE within ten yards of him that's pathetic.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think much it of it goes back to not having an offseason.

Also when two veterans in your secondary let a receiver stand in the end zone with NO ONE within ten yards of him that's pathetic.

No doubt. The lack of defensive players goes back 10 years. It's nothing new. The trick is how do you draft to rebuild your defense and offense and make improvements. I'm not expecting to see much this year, maybe the last 4 or 5 games, but next season they had better be some improvement or all we have done is waste another two years.

[claymore]

Yea, but if they were future pro-bowlers, they would be getting tackles and making plays. No matter how bad the team is.

Patrick Willis and DeMarco Ryan looked pretty damn good on bad defensive squads as rookies. So did Suh. Miller should look just as good as those guys. He really doesn't at this point.

I dont think Miller is the problem. He is doing what he is asked to do.

The problem is that we have like 4-5 quality starters. They are easily avoidable.

[Thnikkaman]

Watching the Stanford/USC game Saturday Night made me think that as good as Luck looks, he's not going to turn a 2-14 team into a playoff contender right away.

Not saying that I wouldn't want him here, but he isn't the Messiah everyone thinks he is.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I dont think Miller is the problem. He is doing what he is asked to do.

The problem is that we have like 4-5 quality starters. They are easily avoidable.

Yea, it's pretty bad. Looks like a McDaniels defense. Are they last in scoring defense now?

[BigDaddyBronco]

Watching the Stanford/USC game Saturday Night made me think that as good as Luck looks, he's not going to turn a 2-14 team into a playoff contender right away.

Not saying that I wouldn't want him here, but he isn't the Messiah everyone thinks he is.

No one player is. I would be worried about keeping him alive with our bad OLine. Nothing would suck worse than having the next David Carr.

[chazoe60]

Maybe we'll draft Landry Jones and fire John Fox and hire Bob Stoops.
Oklahoma Brincos baby.

[claymore]

Yea, it's pretty bad. Looks like a McDaniels defense. Are they last in scoring defense now?

No clue. I stopped paying attention to stats in 2009.

The good news... I think Elway is firmly in charge, and I dont think Elway likes losing. Hopefully he gets some good Coordinators and talent evaluators in here.

[BigDaddyBronco]

No clue. I stopped paying attention to stats in 2009.

The good news... I think Elway is firmly in charge, and I dont think Elway likes losing. Hopefully he gets some good Coordinators and talent evaluators in here.

A real GM would have helped. Fire McCoy and Xanders and pay to get some decent help for Fox and Elway.

[Buff]

Maybe we'll draft Landry Jones and fire John Fox and hire Bob Stoops.
Oklahoma Brincos baby.

This would be a dream scenario. I'd settle for just Landry Jones.

[Lancane]

I think much it of it goes back to not having an offseason.

Could be...if all teams looked as bad, but when we're looking this bad and other teams with new offenses and even rawer starting quarterbacks whom look like professionals? Then that answer really doesn't work.

[silkamilkamonico]

Watching the Stanford/USC game Saturday Night made me think that as good as Luck looks, he's not going to turn a 2-14 team into a playoff contender right away.

Not saying that I wouldn't want him here, but he isn't the Messiah everyone thinks he is.

You need a QB to win, period. I agree no QB is going to come in here to turn this thing around, and I agree that every aspect of this team needs to be better, but it starts at QB. For every year you hold off ignoring the QB position, your holding off winning for one more year in however long it takes to rebuild.

Start with a QB and build your team.

[TXBRONC]

Maybe we'll draft Landry Jones and fire John Fox and hire Bob Stoops.
Oklahoma Brincos baby.

Yes to Jones no to Stoops. Most college coaching are not good for the NFL.

[Lancane]

Yes to Jones no to Stoops. Most college coaching are not good for the NFL.

Usually I agree...but I have Harbaugh envy at the moment! :lol:

[BigDaddyBronco]

Usually I agree...but I have Harbaugh envy at the moment! :lol:

Or Rivera envy. :tsk:

[Thnikkaman]

You need a QB to win, period. I agree no QB is going to come in here to turn this thing around, and I agree that every aspect of this team needs to be better, but it starts at QB. For every year you hold off ignoring the QB position, your holding off winning for one more year in however long it takes to rebuild.

Start with a QB and build your team.

And I'm not saying that we shouldn't draft a QB. I'm saying that drafting a QB that's not Luck isn't going to be the end of the world.

[claymore]

A real GM would have helped. Fire McCoy and Xanders and pay to get some decent help for Fox and Elway.

Yes, we need some sort of stability though. Im all for firing one, major people a year until we get the right combination.

The JMCD fire everyone/trade everything approach doesnt work. Fox deserves a couple more years, Xanders and Mccoy need to pack their bags though.

[TXBRONC]

Usually I agree...but I have Harbaugh envy at the moment! :lol:

Still I think Harbaugh is the execption not the rule.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Yes, we need some sort of stability though. Im all for firing one, major people a year until we get the right combination.

The JMCD fire everyone/trade everything approach doesnt work. Fox deserves a couple more years, Xanders and Mccoy need to pack their bags though.

Both of those guys should have gone at the end of last year. Elway must have been drunk when Xanders talked him in to keeping him around.

[camdisco24]

And I'm not saying that we shouldn't draft a QB. I'm saying that drafting a QB that's not Luck isn't going to be the end of the world.

I think if we get any of the top 3 or 4 QB prospects, we'll be in good hands.

This is a good year to be looking for a QB if Tebow doesn't work out.

[claymore]

Both of those guys should have gone at the end of last year. Elway must have been drunk when Xanders talked him in to keeping him around.

There is no way to argue against that. You are right. I was more patient with those 2 than most because McD was such a dik, we (I) didnt know what we had in them.

Im hopefull Elway will continue to right this ship. All I can go off of is hope, because I havent seen any improvement.

[BroncoNut]

There is no way to argue against that. You are right. I was more patient with those 2 than most because McD was such a dik, we (I) didnt know what we had in them.

Im hopefull Elway will continue to right this ship. All I can go off of is hope, because I havent seen any improvement.

Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best thing. And a good thing never dies

[claymore]

Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best thing. And a good thing never dies

It is what it is Nut.

[BroncoNut]

It is what it is Nut.

that is an understatement

[arapaho2]

Vic Lombardi just asked Elway if he thought Tebwo made any progress from last week to the this week. He said no.

To be fair he said the play calliing could have been a little better and well as the play of everyone else. However, he also said playing will only take you so far you still have to execute plays and you've got to convert 3rd downs or you will not win in this League. Please understand this isn't verbatim but I think I got the basic jist.

For anyone that things going back to Orton is a solution. We weren't scoring points with Orton or converting 3rd downs within in line up either. Anyway one that thinks that ought to go back and look at the first four games.



i wonder at what point does elway realize mcoy has no clue how to get an offense going

[GEM]

He shouldn't have hired Fox and kept McCoy then. If we have a 5 year rebuild it's on Elway.

I am ok with Fox and Allen at this point. McCoy needs to get the hell out of town yesterday. He should have been kicked to the curb with McDumbass.

And for all that is holy, bring back the draft scouts that McDumbass fired.

[claymore]

i wonder at what point does elway realize mcoy has no clue how to get an offense going

Being shackled by reeves for so many years, Im sure OC is a high priority on his office whiteboard.

[TXBRONC]

i wonder at what point does elway realize mcoy has no clue how to get an offense going

I disagree I think McCoy does know what he's doing.

[Jsteve01]

Yeah, Im not sold on Stoops as a HC. Im still extremely pissed that we missed on Harbaugh. We should have pulled out all the stops in our pursuit of him.

[lgenf]

If nfl coaches are creatures of habit and usually stick to something that works and go with it until the defense stops it, why did the broncos go away from the spread after the first series?

That has to be on McCoy as the OC

Even decker said we tried to get back to it in the second half but didn't quite get into it, why did they leave it?

[BORDERLINE]

If nfl coaches are creatures of habit and usually stick to something that works and go with it until the defense stops it, why did the broncos go away from the spread after the first series?

That has to be on McCoy as the OC

Even decker said we tried to get back to it in the second half but didn't quite get into it, why did they leave it?

Come On Tebow missed a lot of open receivers. He was not decisive on where to go with the football. The Lions made him throw to beat them and he could not. And it's not as if the Lions have the Jets secondary.

Let's hope he bounces back from this

[Thnikkaman]

It is what it is Nut.

At the end of the day...

[Cugel]

He shouldn't have hired Fox and kept McCoy then. If we have a 5 year rebuild it's on Elway.

Right now the defense is playing better than they were last year. It's not a surprise you get blown out when your QB throws a pick-six for a TD and fumbles for another. That's 14 points right there.

Add in nine 3 and outs in a row (in fact I think 1 was a 4 and out since they went for it on 4th down and failed to convert) and any defense would wilt.

I'd say John Fox is doing his job. He's coaching a really BAD team about as well as he can. As for the selection of Rahim Moore in the 2nd round, that's looking like a busted pick -- at least so far.

Franklin is at least starting and I think he has a future on the OL. Chris Kuper played superbly well -- Suh was the only Detroit defender who didn't have a sack on Tebow.

And despite Clady's two holding penalties he's a solid player as well.

That might be 3 players on this OL who they can keep. The rest don't look too good. Beadles, and Walton may be young but they look like backups at best.

I'd say the Broncos will use their #2 pick on a DT, maybe their #3 pick on an OT or OG.

[GEM]

If nfl coaches are creatures of habit and usually stick to something that works and go with it until the defense stops it, why did the broncos go away from the spread after the first series?

That has to be on McCoy as the OC

Even decker said we tried to get back to it in the second half but didn't quite get into it, why did they leave it?

Because a true spread in the NFL is a joke. Either Tebow can learn the ropes of an NFL offense or he can't. If he can't, he doesn't need to be here. I was on the same page before yesterday, but we don't have the players or talent available to craft an offense to fit Tebow. I don't want to spend the next 2 drafts on players that fit Tebow. I want to spend the next 2 drafts on talented players who fit the NFL.

[Cugel]

But realistically. If the Broncos draft a QB in 2012, how soon do you think he'd be ready to lead the team to the playoffs? I'd say in his 3rd season, or around 2015.

That would mean that hiring McDaniels set this team back by at least 6 years. Almost a blown decade. That's why I hated him like fire from the beginning. I could see this coming. You just do the math.


"Let's see. The ******* traded Cutler and Orton clearly isn't the answer. So, that's a wasted 2 years proving that, maybe 3. So optimistically, he gets fired after his 2nd season and they start rebuilding with a new QB in 2011. Then it takes maybe 3 years for a QB to develop so realistically it will be at least FIVE YEARS -- or 2014 before the Broncos are ready to compete again for a SB." -- Me in January 2009. Looks like I was being overly optimistic. :coffee:

[GEM]

Right now the defense is playing better than they were last year. It's not a surprise you get blown out when your QB throws a pick-six for a TD and fumbles for another. That's 14 points right there.

Add in nine 3 and outs in a row (in fact I think 1 was a 4 and out since they went for it on 4th down and failed to convert) and any defense would wilt.

I'd say John Fox is doing his job. He's coaching a really BAD team about as well as he can. As for the selection of Rahim Moore in the 2nd round, that's looking like a busted pick -- at least so far.

Franklin is at least starting and I think he has a future on the OL. Chris Kuper played superbly well -- Suh was the only Detroit defender who didn't have a sack on Tebow.

And despite Clady's two holding penalties he's a solid player as well.

That might be 3 players on this OL who they can keep. The rest don't look too good. Beadles, and Walton may be young but they look like backups at best.

I'd say the Broncos will use their #2 pick on a DT, maybe their #3 pick on an OT or OG.

Agree completely. The defense may seem bad, but they are nowhere near as bad as last season. There are improvements. there. Add a few key positions and we could really see some drastic improvement. I think the defense is on the right track.

The offense is a whole different story.

[Ravage!!!]

Yeah, Im not sold on Stoops as a HC. Im still extremely pissed that we missed on Harbaugh. We should have pulled out all the stops in our pursuit of him.

Harbaugh wasn't interested in looking at any other job other than San Fran, though.

[Ravage!!!]

And despite Clady's two holding penalties he's a solid player as well.

One of those holding calls when Tebow wanted to hold onto the ball for the remainer of the game. He held onto it forEVER. I wasn't surprised at all for a holding call, OL can't hold blocks for that long

[DenBronx]

Vic and Gary went right after Orlando Franklins poor play.

[Cugel]

Because a true spread in the NFL is a joke. Either Tebow can learn the ropes of an NFL offense or he can't. If he can't, he doesn't need to be here. I was on the same page before yesterday, but we don't have the players or talent available to craft an offense to fit Tebow. I don't want to spend the next 2 drafts on players that fit Tebow. I want to spend the next 2 drafts on talented players who fit the NFL.

Don't worry about it. If Tebow has another couple of games like this last one all the Tebowners will have to shut the hell up.

The Broncos TRIED to run a spread offense, despite the fact that such an offense has ZERO chance of succeeding for long term in the NFL because the QB takes such a beating. Despite all the idiots attacking Fox for Tebow's failure to throw accurate passes when he has a WR wide open for a TD (he did it again for the 3rd week in a row), Fox can't run out onto the field and grab Tebow and align his body properly to make accurate throws.

I see Tebow being benched after the Thanksgiving game against the Jets. Maybe after they get blown out in Oakland next week.

That would be 3 games in which he has failed miserably to run the offense against any kind of pressure defense and can only operate if teams go to a prevent defense and let him run around and "make plays."

But, if they go with him in KC, having to come back with the short work week and start 4 days later against the Jets on Thanksgiving Day would be too hard. So, they have to throw Tebow to the wolves and let him be humiliated on national TV if they stick with him after the Raiders game.

[Cugel]

Vic and Gary went right after Orlando Franklins poor play.

Orlando Franklin is a rookie and his weakness in college was pass-blocking. Lots of rookie OTs have trouble with that, unless they are elite pass-blockers like Ryan Clady who just comes in and excels week 1. But, guys like that don't last until the 2nd round. Clady was taken #12 overall, just one pick ahead of the Chiefs who desperately wanted him as well and would have grabbed him if he were still on the board.

Clearly the Broncos didn't do Franklin any favors by letting Ryan Harris get away in FA. Franklin should be backing up right now and learning the ropes.

But, the Broncos management felt that they were in rebuilding mode this season, so they were just going to go with Franklin and see if he could handle it. So far he's not doing well, but then nobody else on the team is either and Tim holding onto the ball too long isn't helping the sack ratio either.

[Cugel]

One of those holding calls when Tebow wanted to hold onto the ball for the remainer of the game. He held onto it forEVER. I wasn't surprised at all for a holding call, OL can't hold blocks for that long

I'm not knocking Clady who is a good player and could start for a lot of teams in the NFL. If the Broncos ever get a QB who gets rid of the ball in a reasonable amount of time then Clady will be perfectly adequate. And Kuper played great against Suh. Suh was the ONLY Lion on their DL who DIDN'T sack Tebow.

[GEM]

Orlando Franklin is a rookie and his weakness in college was pass-blocking. Lots of rookie OTs have trouble with that, unless they are elite pass-blockers like Ryan Clady who just comes in and excels week 1. But, guys like that don't last until the 2nd round. Clady was taken #12 overall, just one pick ahead of the Chiefs who desperately wanted him as well and would have grabbed him if he were still on the board.

Clearly the Broncos didn't do Franklin any favors by letting Ryan Harris get away in FA. Franklin should be backing up right now and learning the ropes.

But, the Broncos management felt that they were in rebuilding mode this season, so they were just going to go with Franklin and see if he could handle it. So far he's not doing well, but then nobody else on the team is either and Tim holding onto the ball too long isn't helping the sack ratio either.

It also doesn't help that Franklin is not only thrown in unready, but he is now the blind side blocker. That is a lot to ask of a rookie.

[NightTerror218]

Can you say "With Denver's first overall pick"?...I can and happily so! :D

Sorry but you might be able to say with #3. Indy and Miami have it locked for 1 and 2.

[Cugel]

Agree completely. The defense may seem bad, but they are nowhere near as bad as last season. There are improvements. there. Add a few key positions and we could really see some drastic improvement. I think the defense is on the right track.

The offense is a whole different story.

Yes. And obviously when you have the WORST defense in football in nearly every category then you can't expect miracles from one draft. That's why they drafted Fox and he got Allen. To improve what had been a team weakness for the last 5 years. And they still aren't great, but they are better.

Miller looks like he can get pressure on the passer which is why they drafted him #2 overall. He's not the problem although I still argue they would have been better off taking Marcel Dareus with that pick. :coffee:

The Broncos secondary is really pretty bad outside Champ Bailey. Andre Goodman did actually make a play last game but Dawkins is just a complete liability in coverage and they don't seem to be using Rahim Moore.

The LBs are pretty mediocre. Woodyard and DJ are better suited as backups than starters along with Joe Mays.

[GEM]

Yes. And obviously when you have the WORST defense in football in nearly every category then you can't expect miracles from one draft. That's why they drafted Fox and he got Allen. To improve what had been a team weakness for the last 5 years. And they still aren't great, but they are better.

Miller looks like he can get pressure on the passer which is why they drafted him #2 overall. He's not the problem although I still argue they would have been better off taking Marcel Dareus with that pick. :coffee:

The Broncos secondary is really pretty bad outside Champ Bailey. Andre Goodman did actually make a play last game but Dawkins is just a complete liability in coverage and they don't seem to be using Rahim Moore.

The LBs are pretty mediocre. Woodyard and DJ are better suited as backups than starters along with Joe Mays.

Agreed. I think they have much better defensive scheme, but the talent level is so low, that it can't be completely seen. In the scheme of things, Denver is probably one of the bottom 5 in NFL talent right now. This isn't just a today thing, but from a decade of poor drafting and FA choices. It will take awhile to climb out of a talent hole, problem there being....owners and fans aren't patient people.

[Cugel]

It also doesn't help that Franklin is not only thrown in unready, but he is now the blind side blocker. That is a lot to ask of a rookie.

I think he will be a blind-side blocker for another 3 games. And then either Orton or Quinn will be in there when the Broncos roll into San Diego on the 27th. They will have 10 days after the Thanksgiving Day game to bring back Orton or put in Quinn and get the offense adapted.

I don't know if Orton will be willing to go back to being the starter though. He probably doesn't want to get injured and hurt his FA chances, but he is being paid $8 million for this season, so he has little choice if they call his #.

Still, he will quickly remind everybody why they wanted the change to Tebow to begin with.

[arapaho2]

I disagree I think McCoy does know what he's doing.


he does?...

reporter: mccoy whats your game plan against one of the fiercest dlines in the league

mccoy: well i think im gonna run alot of 7 step drops with 2 wrs ...i mean the way my oline has been pass protecting all season thats a no brainer...then i'll probably go all unpredictable and run on 85% all first downs....i also dont think 3 step drops with decker or willis slanting is needed until the forth qrt ...then the biggest surprise i got for that defense is...get this...i will totaly ignore the qbs best assest...the big TE...wont they be confused!!!



this offense was pathetic with a pocket accurate passer...its even worse with tebow

[TXBRONC]

But realistically. If the Broncos draft a QB in 2012, how soon do you think he'd be ready to lead the team to the playoffs? I'd say in his 3rd season, or around 2015.

That would mean that hiring McDaniels set this team back by at least 6 years. Almost a blown decade. That's why I hated him like fire from the beginning. I could see this coming. You just do the math.

Elway has said it will take three years to get things turn completely turned around. That said, look at what happened in Atlanta. No one expected the Falcons to be a playoff team in Ryan's rookie season and they have been competive ever sense. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying in an way, shape, or form that we should look for that but it is possible. It's just that it is very remote.

[NightTerror218]

I think he will be a blind-side blocker for another 3 games. And then either Orton or Quinn will be in there when the Broncos roll into San Diego on the 27th. They will have 10 days after the Thanksgiving Day game to bring back Orton or put in Quinn and get the offense adapted.

I don't know if Orton will be willing to go back to being the starter though. He probably doesn't want to get injured and hurt his FA chances, but he is being paid $8 million for this season, so he has little choice if they call his #.

Still, he will quickly remind everybody why they wanted the change to Tebow to begin with.

I dont think they will. I think they want a fair amount of games to evaluate him. The more he burns himself by end of season the less likely the fan base flips if he is benched. So you think 5 games is enough to evaluate someones potential?

[TXBRONC]

Agreed. I think they have much better defensive scheme, but the talent level is so low, that it can't be completely seen. In the scheme of things, Denver is probably one of the bottom 5 in NFL talent right now. This isn't just a today thing, but from a decade of poor drafting and FA choices. It will take awhile to climb out of a talent hole, problem there being....owners and fans aren't patient people.


I think he will be a blind-side blocker for another 3 games. And then either Orton or Quinn will be in there when the Broncos roll into San Diego on the 27th. They will have 10 days after the Thanksgiving Day game to bring back Orton or put in Quinn and get the offense adapted.

I don't know if Orton will be willing to go back to being the starter though. He probably doesn't want to get injured and hurt his FA chances, but he is being paid $8 million for this season, so he has little choice if they call his #.

Still, he will quickly remind everybody why they wanted the change to Tebow to begin with.

The fact that Franklin is Tebow blind side protector is the thing that's problematic because most defense's best pass rusher in on offensive lines left side. Right now pass blocking is just not something he does very well at. By his own admission he's a better run blocker than a pass blocker.

[rcsodak]

When the majority of 3rd downs are 3rd and long no one will be looking good on conversions.
When your qb misses wide open r's or holds onto the ball and gets sacked, your offense WILL BE IN 3rd / long situations.

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[rcsodak]

Yea, but if they were future pro-bowlers, they would be getting tackles and making plays. No matter how bad the team is.

Patrick Willis and DeMarco Ryan looked pretty damn good on bad defensive squads as rookies. So did Suh. Miller should look just as good as those guys. He really doesn't at this point.
Darius has actually improved Buff's defense.

Go figger.

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[jhildebrand]

I don't think Elway is happy at all IMHO. Not with Tebow or the coaching staff!

I agree! I think it is interesting Elway called out the playcalling.

The one good thing is this: if the playcalling is purposely bad and if players are baggin it, they will all be gone!

[rcsodak]

Watching the Stanford/USC game Saturday Night made me think that as good as Luck looks, he's not going to turn a 2-14 team into a playoff contender right away.

Not saying that I wouldn't want him here, but he isn't the Messiah everyone thinks he is.
Not to mention he's one butt ugly dude. (In a non gay way)

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[rcsodak]

Usually I agree...but I have Harbaugh envy at the moment! :lol:
Harbaugh has NFL experience/background.

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[Jsteve01]

Darius has actually improved Buff's defense.

Go figger.

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Dareus or a complete overhaul on defense? He's playing next to an all Pro DT, and has Merriman over his shoulder. He's been good but now anywhere in the league of Suh.

[silkamilkamonico]

Denver Broncos defensive "talent":

Bunkley - has played pretty solid
Miller - Rookie, some very good bright spots as well as rough edges but will be good
Dumervil - joke. Most overrated player in Denver. Wasted re-sign with that contract
DJ Johnson - good starter but not the talent once though
Bailey - see DJ. Bailey is not a top CB in the NFL anymore period.
Dawkins - could be good for motivation and leadership, but that ship is sailed
Any other "talents"?

With the exception of Miller (and possibly Bunkley depending on scheme), every single starter on Denver should be replaced at some point in next couple years.

[rcsodak]

Dareus or a complete overhaul on defense? He's playing next to an all Pro DT, and has Merriman over his shoulder. He's been good but now anywhere in the league of Suh.merriman? He's done and isn't the same player he was in sd.
he doesn't have to be suh.....just better than what you already have.
him/Vick/bunk would've been a nice start.

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[lgenf]

When your qb misses wide open r's or holds onto the ball and gets sacked, your offense WILL BE IN 3rd / long situations.

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And how many times was that he reason vs runs with no running game on 1st and 2nd downs leaving us in 3rd long?

Let's not make the lies into the truth because you want to see it that way

[TXBRONC]

And how many times was that he reason vs runs with no running game on 1st and 2nd downs leaving us in 3rd long?

Let's not make the lies into the truth because you want to see it that way

Spin goes both ways.

[lgenf]

Spin goes both ways.

But looking at the game tape, Tebow had 8 passes all game that were bad, long short, high, in the dirt whatever that's it, and he was running for his life most of the game

I think this week against Oakland will be a better test than going against the best front 4 in the league

[GEM]

18 of 39. Puke. He ran for his life because he holds onto the damn ball too long. No offensive line can hold a good defensive line that long.

[silkamilkamonico]

35 of 76. Vomit.

[TXBRONC]

But looking at the game tape, Tebow had 8 passes all game that were bad, long short, high, in the dirt whatever that's it, and he was running for his life most of the game

I think this week against Oakland will be a better test than going against the best front 4 in the league

So the hell what. He doesn't do a very good job of reading defenses and his delivery is way to slow. Detriot knew it and they came after him repeatedly becaue they didn't fear Tebow's arm.

You're kidding youself if you think Oakland is going do anything different from what Detriot did. As I said spin goes both ways.

[lgenf]

18 of 39. Puke. He ran for his life because he holds onto the damn ball too long. No offensive line can hold a good defensive line that long.

Hold the line, for what 2 secs

The idiot McCoy had Tebow under center and doing 5 and 7 step drops (which is a weakness) and by the time he gets back in the pocket the fng dline is on top of him

That crap goes on McCoy, he should have stuck to the damn spread like the first possession until Detroit did something to prevent it, but to knowingly switch to your QBs worst possible offensive scheme against the fastest dline in the league you have decided the fate of the game just by the scheme

I would just like to have someone ask fox and McCoy why did you switch out of the spread after the first drive, since it was working?

I think that is what elway was speaking about the play calling could have been better

[lgenf]

So the hell what. He doesn't do a very good job of reading defenses and his delivery is way to slow. Detriot knew it and they came after him repeatedly becaue they didn't fear Tebow's arm.

You're kidding youself if you think Oakland is going do anything different from what Detriot did. As I said spin goes both ways.

That's fine let Oakland do it

And have McCoy keep Tebow in the spread so there are 3 and 4 receivers out in formation each play and a single back for either runs or extra blitz pick ups, Oakland does not have nearly the front 4 of Detroit and that means for pressure they have to bring the LBs or DBs and that gives Tebow the advantage

[GEM]

Hold the line, for what 2 secs

The idiot McCoy had Tebow under center and doing 5 and 7 step drops (which is a weakness) and by the time he gets back in the pocket the fng dline is on top of him

That crap goes on McCoy, he should have stuck to the damn spread like the first possession until Detroit did something to prevent it, but to knowingly switch to your QBs worst possible offensive scheme against the fastest dline in the league you have decided the fate of the game just by the scheme

I would just like to have someone ask fox and McCoy why did you switch out of the spread after the first drive, since it was working?

I think that is what elway was speaking about the play calling could have been better


He is an NFL qb. If he can't do 5 and 7 foot drops...he has no business in the league. The spread is a ******* joke in the NFL and I don't want my team looking like some second rate ******* college team because we are catering our offense to a single player. The other 10 guys on that offense deserve more than lowering the expectancies because one player can't play at the level.

His play is more along the level of the CFL.

[silkamilkamonico]

Sorry legn, only an ignorant football fan who doesn't know the game can even attempt to stand up and make excuses for Tebow.

When players from the other team are laughing at their oppoenents QB, you know there's a big problem.

[TXBRONC]

That's fine let Oakland do it

And have McCoy keep Tebow in the spread so there are 3 and 4 receivers out in formation each play and a single back for either runs or extra blitz pick ups, Oakland does not have nearly the front 4 of Detroit and that means for pressure they have to bring the LBs or DBs and that gives Tebow the advantage

Yeah he can't read defense right now. so putting more receivers is going to make him a better passer. Wrong.

[silkamilkamonico]

Yeah he can't read defense right now putting more receivers is going to make him a better passer. Wrong.

Please stop using common knowledge in these Tebow arguments. It's almost embarrassing.

[Tned]

Yep, get ready to take another QB high in the draft.

3rd QB we drafted in first round in six years. Not too bad, that's only one every three years.

[Tned]

I am ok with Fox and Allen at this point. McCoy needs to get the hell out of town yesterday. He should have been kicked to the curb with McDumbass.

And for all that is holy, bring back the draft scouts that McDumbass fired.

McCoy is Fox's boy, even if he was here with McDaniels.

[NightTerror218]

merriman? He's done and isn't the same player he was in sd.
he doesn't have to be suh.....just better than what you already have.
him/Vick/bunk would've been a nice start.

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He was playing awesome until he got hurt this year.

[NightTerror218]

He is an NFL qb. If he can't do 5 and 7 foot drops...he has no business in the league. The spread is a ******* joke in the NFL and I don't want my team looking like some second rate ******* college team because we are catering our offense to a single player. The other 10 guys on that offense deserve more than lowering the expectancies because one player can't play at the level.

His play is more along the level of the CFL.

Dont tell Matt Stafford that, Detroit does the spread.

[BroncoNut]

Sorry legn, only an ignorant football fan who doesn't know the game can even attempt to stand up and make excuses for Tebow.

When players from the other team are laughing at their oppoenents QB, you know there's a big problem.

People mocked and hated Jesus.

[rcsodak]

And how many times was that he reason vs runs with no running game on 1st and 2nd downs leaving us in 3rd long?

Let's not make the lies into the truth because you want to see it that way
I have no idea what you just said. Sorry.

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[rcsodak]

35 of 76. Vomit.
And what percentage of those are in garbage time? You know.....just using the same argument used against Orton.

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[rcsodak]

So the hell what. He doesn't do a very good job of reading defenses and his delivery is way to slow. Detriot knew it and they came after him repeatedly becaue they didn't fear Tebow's arm.

You're kidding youself if you think Oakland is going do anything different from what Detriot did. As I said spin goes both ways.
Schwartz was just on Sirius NFL. And said they wanted to make TT beat them from the pocket.

SUCCESS!

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[rcsodak]

Hold the line, for what 2 secs

The idiot McCoy had Tebow under center and doing 5 and 7 step drops (which is a weakness) and by the time he gets back in the pocket the fng dline is on top of him

That crap goes on McCoy, he should have stuck to the damn spread like the first possession until Detroit did something to prevent it, but to knowingly switch to your QBs worst possible offensive scheme against the fastest dline in the league you have decided the fate of the game just by the scheme

I would just like to have someone ask fox and McCoy why did you switch out of the spread after the first drive, since it was working?

I think that is what elway was speaking about the play calling could have been better

You don't change offensive schemes midseason. 1 day/week is for game planning.
Its not like the players/coaches are Mensa members.

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[GEM]

Dont tell Matt Stafford that, Detroit does the spread.

:lol: And Tebow is no Matt Stafford. And Decker is no Megatron. ;) Talent.

[rcsodak]

3rd QB we drafted in first round in six years. Not too bad, that's only one every three years.
......?? :confused:

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[rcsodak]

He was playing awesome until he got hurt this year.didn't seem to miss him yesterday. ;')

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[wayninja]

He is an NFL qb. If he can't do 5 and 7 foot drops...he has no business in the league. The spread is a ******* joke in the NFL and I don't want my team looking like some second rate ******* college team because we are catering our offense to a single player. The other 10 guys on that offense deserve more than lowering the expectancies because one player can't play at the level.

His play is more along the level of the CFL.

WTF cares what your team looks like? Or rather, WTF cares if you can do a 5-7 foot drop if you still get your ass handed to you?

Which 'high level' player are you talking about matching anyway? I didn't see anyone on the team playing at a much higher level than Tebow. There was suckage to go around.

If adjustments can be made to make the team better, why would you ignore them?

[wayninja]

:lol: And Tebow is no Matt Stafford. And Decker is no Megatron. ;) Talent.

For the first few years both of them played, they weren't Stafford or Megatron, either. In fact, wasn't Stafford an INT machine his rookie season?

[spikerman]

I think this week against Oakland will be a better test than going against the best front 4 in the league
Ummmm, Oakland has a pretty good front four as well.

[tomjonesrocks]

Dumervil - joke. Most overrated player in Denver. Wasted re-sign with that contract

That is so ridiculous. Doom has been really unlucky with injuries and as a result hasn't produced. The injuries are discouraging for sure but based on how he looked in preseason he could still be valuable moving forward. Doom's been really unlucky but he's not a "joke".

Unfortunately, it remains to be seen if he can produce in this 4-3...if he can't I'd more likely look at the coaches to blame.

[GEM]

WTF cares what your team looks like? Or rather, WTF cares if you can do a 5-7 foot drop if you still get your ass handed to you?

Which 'high level' player are you talking about matching anyway? I didn't see anyone on the team playing at a much higher level than Tebow. There was suckage to go around.

If adjustments can be made to make the team better, why would you ignore them?

I give a shit what my team looks like. Shannon Sharpe gives a shit what this team looks like. Ownership gives a shit what this team looks like.

They look like this, those seats won't be filled. Those seats aren't filled, Bowlen feels it in the pocketbook.

Just because you ONLY give a shit what TEBOW looks like, don't mean shit to me.

If those adjustments are lowering your team to a college team, and the chance is the guy you are catering to isn't going to be here long term, you don't change the team. Those 10 other guys on offense were drafted by an NFL team, not some college team. Just because Tebow can't do 3 and 7 step drops doesn't mean they shouldn't expect him to or tell him to hit the road for someone who can.

[TXBRONC]

People mocked and hated Jesus.

True but it's not because he couldn't throw a football.

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[wayninja]

I give a shit what my team looks like. Shannon Sharpe gives a shit what this team looks like. Ownership gives a shit what this team looks like.

They look like this, those seats won't be filled. Those seats aren't filled, Bowlen feels it in the pocketbook.

Just because you ONLY give a shit what TEBOW looks like, don't mean shit to me.

If those adjustments are lowering your team to a college team, and the chance is the guy you are catering to isn't going to be here long term, you don't change the team. Those 10 other guys on offense were drafted by an NFL team, not some college team. Just because Tebow can't do 3 and 7 step drops doesn't mean they shouldn't expect him to or tell him to hit the road for someone who can.


So, you are saying you give a shit?

Good for you. I care about win/loss, you care about prettiness. Point made, I guess.

[GEM]

For the first few years both of them played, they weren't Stafford or Megatron, either. In fact, wasn't Stafford an INT machine his rookie season?

You mean 1 year for Stafford (his rookie year) and 2 out of 6 for Megatron?

If you are comparing Stafford talent to Tebow talent, all I can do is laugh. Tebow doesn't have any in comparison. Stafford can make any throw on the field in seconds. Tebow can make 3 throws on the field when he's able to get it off instead of taking a sack because he held the ball for too long.

[GEM]

So, you are saying you give a shit?

Good for you. I care about win/loss, you care about prettiness. Point made, I guess.


Tebow is 2-3. Yay! Let me contain the WINNING enthusiasm. He sucks. Get over it.

[wayninja]

Tebow is 2-3. Yay! Let me contain the WINNING enthusiasm. He sucks. Get over it.

Finally, the wisdom of the ancients.

If you go 2-3, you can't possibly be a good quarterback. No 2-3 starting quarterback has ever made anything of himself.

[GEM]

Finally, the wisdom of the ancients.

If you go 2-3, you can't possibly be a good quarterback. No 2-3 starting quarterback has ever made anything of himself.

Come back in 6 weeks when we are 2-11. ;)

[Tned]

......?? :confused:

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While I'm not surprised you are :confused: (come on, you lobbed me that soft ball), is there anything in particular with my statement that confused you?

We drated Cutler in '06, Tebow in '10, and appear set to draft our 3rd first round QB in '12.

[wayninja]

Come back in 6 weeks when we are 2-11. ;)

I like your enthusiasm. Fair weather fans always make me laugh.

[spikerman]

I like your enthusiasm. Fair weather fans always make me laugh.

uh oh.

[GEM]

I like your enthusiasm. Fair weather fans always make me laugh.

LMAO @ fair weather. Ask the admin of this site how long I've been on Broncos sites. Most of the people on here I have known for over 5 years, some for more than 7. I was born in 75 and remember watching games with my dad at the time I was hitting preschool. Don't ******* tell me I'm a fair weather fan, Teboi. That is not a ******* road you want to go down.

[BigDaddyBronco]

uh oh.

Fan police out again.

[TXBRONC]

I like your enthusiasm. Fair weather fans always make me laugh.

You couldn't come up with a better answer than this?

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[Cugel]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronconut View Post
People mocked and hated Jesus.

True but it's not because he couldn't throw a football.

:laugh: That was the funniest post I've seen in months! :beer:

[GEM]

LMAO @ fair weather. Ask the admin of this site how long I've been on Broncos sites. Most of the people on here I have known for over 5 years, some for more than 7. I was born in 75 and remember watching games with my dad at the time I was hitting preschool. Don't ******* tell me I'm a fair weather fan, Teboi. That is not a ******* road you want to go down.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger...

:D

That's what I ******* thought. Best to keep that pie hole shut and those typing fingers quiet before even thinking about calling me a fair weather Bronco fan again.

[arapaho2]

He is an NFL qb. If he can't do 5 and 7 foot drops...he has no business in the league. The spread is a ******* joke in the NFL and I don't want my team looking like some second rate ******* college team because we are catering our offense to a single player. The other 10 guys on that offense deserve more than lowering the expectancies because one player can't play at the level.

His play is more along the level of the CFL.


i think the pats run a spread type system which is what mcd tried to employ here...they seem to do fine....the panthers run alot of spread offense for cam...hows that working?

nobody is saying you have to adopt a college offense....how ever like it or not we have tebow, we seen orton and quinn...and so if were gonna play tebow then by god we should put him in the best position to have sucess

i looked up the splits

with orton this season the majority of his pass attempts were behind or within ten yards...73%

tebow has been handed longer slower routes against top notch dlines...he has only attempted 25% of the same close passes

not exactly the offense to get a young struggling qb going is it

[Tned]

LMAO @ fair weather. Ask the admin of this site how long I've been on Broncos sites. Most of the people on here I have known for over 5 years, some for more than 7. I was born in 75 and remember watching games with my dad at the time I was hitting preschool. Don't ******* tell me I'm a fair weather fan, Teboi. That is not a ******* road you want to go down.

All I got out of this was born in '75. ******* young whipper snapper...

[Cugel]

i think the pats run a spread type system which is what mcd tried to employ here...they seem to do fine....the panthers run alot of spread offense for cam...hows that working?

nobody is saying you have to adopt a college offense....how ever like it or not we have tebow, we seen orton and quinn...and so if were gonna play tebow then by god we should put him in the best position to have sucess

i looked up the splits

with orton this season the majority of his pass attempts were behind or within ten yards...73%

tebow has been handed longer slower routes against top notch dlines...he has only attempted 25% of the same close passes

not exactly the offense to get a young struggling qb going is it

More Tebow apologists.

The difference between you and Elway and Fox is that you are already sold on Tebow as the QB of the future and they are not.

Elway gave an interview on Sunday with former great Tom Jackson and Jackson asked him "as an all-time great QB, evaluate Tebow as a QB."

Elway's answer: "he's a good football player" (not he's a "good QB" or he's a talented QB or we're committed to developing him") and "He's very raw."

Does not sound like Elway is convinced that Tebow is his guy going forward.

John Elway knows exactly what it takes in a QB to win the SB. Nobody better. Not many QBs have played in 5 SBs.

And he knows what he wants. And so far he pretty clearly doesn't see it from Tim Tebow. Which means that unless something radically changes over the next 9 games the Broncos are going to be drafting a QB in 2012 and Tebow can go play for the Toronto Argonauts or something. :coffee:

[Nomad]

I don't remember much from my preschool yrs!:(:lol:

[arapaho2]

LMAO @ fair weather. Ask the admin of this site how long I've been on Broncos sites. Most of the people on here I have known for over 5 years, some for more than 7. I was born in 75 and remember watching games with my dad at the time I was hitting preschool. Don't ******* tell me I'm a fair weather fan, Teboi. That is not a ******* road you want to go down.



75???? gem your still young stuff!!!!!:kiss:

[GEM]

i think the pats run a spread type system which is what mcd tried to employ here...they seem to do fine....the panthers run alot of spread offense for cam...hows that working?

nobody is saying you have to adopt a college offense....how ever like it or not we have tebow, we seen orton and quinn...and so if were gonna play tebow then by god we should put him in the best position to have sucess

i looked up the splits

with orton this season the majority of his pass attempts were behind or within ten yards...73%

tebow has been handed longer slower routes against top notch dlines...he has only attempted 25% of the same close passes

not exactly the offense to get a young struggling qb going is it

I pointed out earlier that the Patriots run a spread....but the difference between the pats and the broncos...tom freaking brady. Just because you can run the spread, doesn't mean you should....unless you have a hell of a talented qb who can keep defenses honest. We don't have that.

We don't have the talent anywhere on the offense to run the spread. We just don't.

[GEM]

Wooohooo I'm still a youngin!! :laugh: :D

[Poet]

Yea, but if they were future pro-bowlers, they would be getting tackles and making plays. No matter how bad the team is.

Patrick Willis and DeMarco Ryan looked pretty damn good on bad defensive squads as rookies. So did Suh. Miller should look just as good as those guys. He really doesn't at this point.

Disagree. He has six sacks already and he's probably going to clear ten with some ease while being on a front seven that is god awful. I'd argue that the scheme does not exactly help him out either.

[arapaho2]

More Tebow apologists.

The difference between you and Elway and Fox is that you are already sold on Tebow as the QB of the future and they are not.

Elway gave an interview on Sunday with former great Tom Jackson and Jackson asked him "as an all-time great QB, evaluate Tebow as a QB."

Elway's answer: "he's a good football player" (not he's a "good QB" or he's a talented QB or we're committed to developing him") and "He's very raw."

Does not sound like Elway is convinced that Tebow is his guy going forward.

John Elway knows exactly what it takes in a QB to win the SB. Nobody better. Not many QBs have played in 5 SBs.

And he knows what he wants. And so far he pretty clearly doesn't see it from Tim Tebow. Which means that unless something radically changes over the next 9 games the Broncos are going to be drafting a QB in 2012 and Tebow can go play for the Toronto Argonauts or something. :coffee:


more cugel bullshit......find one post where i have ever been sold on tebow for the future

i was against him being drafted when we needed so much more

that said he's here...orton sucks

alll im saying is look at the game plan on the first drive....then look at the last 2-3...very similer....somewhat succesful

now look at every drive in between...totaly differant

when you have one of the fiercest pass rushing dlines in the game across from you...you cant afford to continually drop back in 7 step drops, or run deeper routes...specially with our line..

quick an up tempo...we failed

i dont care if tebow comes or goes....but if were gonna play him by god them play him in a way that gives him a chance

[Nomad]

Wooohooo I'm still a youngin!! :laugh: :D

I'm not 40 yet (a couple years)......does that make me a man or a young man?!?:D

[GEM]

I'm not 40 yet (a couple years)......does that make me a man or a young man?!?:D

You're in my boat.....you're a youngin too!! :D

[arapaho2]

I pointed out earlier that the Patriots run a spread....but the difference between the pats and the broncos...tom freaking brady. Just because you can run the spread, doesn't mean you should....unless you have a hell of a talented qb who can keep defenses honest. We don't have that.

We don't have the talent anywhere on the offense to run the spread. We just don't.


yes indeed.....but your not seeing the point...its not so much the term spread offnese

what were doing whether from the shotgun or drop back is slow deeper routes...you cant ignore the fact we dont run quick shallow crossing patterns, screens, quick outs, bubble screens very often if at all with tebow

specially against suh and our putrid oline...you need quick hits..3 step and fire...

again only 25 % of tebows attempts have been within ten yards of the LOL
compare that to 73% for orton

[GEM]

To add to the not being a fair weather fan....my favorite player of all time is Meck....you don't love a player who played in the 80's if you are a fair weather fan. 1987 AFC Championship win...going up and down my street with my mom's Broncos car window screen yelling that we were going to the Super Bowl. That memory doesn't exist with a fair weather fan. Wearing my blue McCaffrey jersey to MNF vs. the Raiders 8 mos pregnant while telling some freaking Raiturd to kiss my ass because he told me the Broncos suck. 1996.

Better check your facts before spewing that bullshit again.

[wayninja]

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger...

:D

That's what I ******* thought. Best to keep that pie hole shut and those typing fingers quiet before even thinking about calling me a fair weather Bronco fan again.

I don't have a better word for it. Your argument is that Tebow sucks because in 5 weeks we will be 2-11. That's a bit worse than a prediction, you are condemning the broncos starter for something that hasn't happened yet. If it does happen, that's one thing, but to make this your central argument is laughable. So I laugh at you.

Feel free to rant and rave and curse. You seem quite good at that.

[GEM]

yes indeed.....but your not seeing the point...its not so much the term spread offnese

what were doing whether from the shotgun or drop back is slow deeper routes...you cant ignore the fact we dont run quick shallow crossing patterns, screens, quick outs, bubble screens very often if at all with tebow

specially against suh and our putrid oline...you need quick hits..3 step and fire...

again only 25 % of tebows attempts have been within ten yards of the LOL
compare that to 73% for orton

I agree the playcalling has been atrocious. And I agree they should be calling intermediate passes that move the chains, but we do not need to change to a college style offense which is what Tebow fans want.

[GEM]

I don't have a better word for it. Your argument is that Tebow sucks because in 5 weeks we will be 2-11. That's a bit worse than a prediction, you are condemning the broncos starter for something that hasn't happened yet. If it does happen, that's one thing, but to make this your central argument is laughable. So I laugh at you.

Come back laughing in 6 weeks when it's reality. ;)

Central argument is he has been terrible minus 3 minutes and an OT period.

If I'm wrong, I will eat crow happily because that means my Broncos will be in the W column. I just don't expect it to happen after what I have seen so far.

[dogfish]

He has no one but himself to blame for the coaching staff

wrong! he has pat bowlen's cheap ass to blame for the coaching staff. . . harbaugh was the coach elway wanted, and we were never in contention because he wasn't in our price range. . . not to say that he would have come here anyway, but the fact that we couldn't even get in for a sham interview like miami was a little discouraging. . . when you force somebody to pick from the wal-mart bargain DVD bin, you shouldn't be surprised when they don't come up with a good movie. . .




Vic and Gary went right after Orlando Franklins poor play.

deservedly so. . . that guy is lucky tebow was so horrendous-- more people would be killing franklin's atrocious "pass protection" if they hadn't been stunned into silence by the magnitude of tim's awfulness. . . .

[wayninja]

I agree the playcalling has been atrocious. And I agree they should be calling intermediate passes that move the chains, but we do not need to change to a college style offense which is what Tebow fans want.

What exactly defines 'college style'? I'm a broncos fan, and I want to do whatever we have to in order to win. If that means catering to what tebow does well, then so be it. I don't care if it's College style or monkey style. Let's just make it easier to win, shall we?

[lgenf]

more cugel bullshit......find one post where i have ever been sold on tebow for the future

i was against him being drafted when we needed so much more

that said he's here...orton sucks

alll im saying is look at the game plan on the first drive....then look at the last 2-3...very similer....somewhat succesful

now look at every drive in between...totaly differant

when you have one of the fiercest pass rushing dlines in the game across from you...you cant afford to continually drop back in 7 step drops, or run deeper routes...specially with our line..

quick an up tempo...we failed

i dont care if tebow comes or goes....but if were gonna play him by god them play him in a way that gives him a chance


I've been trying to say that all day long, I'm with you

I think Tebow can be successful even with our crappy depth at most positions, not all his success will translate to wins,mespecially with this schedule we have ahead of us, but damnit all to hell, if your gonna put him back there at QB then run the scheme and plays that give him the best chance to succeed!

It's almost as if they ran that offense on the first drive then said, oh shit, that works to well, let's go back to our old std crap. Then once the game was clearly outtahand, ok we can go back to that.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but damn, if I can see what is clearly working for the offense I have to believe the fng coaches can see what the hell is working also.

[wayninja]

Come back laughing in 6 weeks when it's reality. ;)

Central argument is he has been terrible minus 3 minutes and an OT period.

If I'm wrong, I will eat crow happily because that means my Broncos will be in the W column. I just don't expect it to happen after what I have seen so far.


Yawn, more of the same doom and gloom from a 'die hard' fan. It's not about eating crow or being right or wrong, it's simply about supporting a team you so vehemently claim you are a fan of. He could lose the next 5, absolutely, but is it too much to ask to wait until he actually does it before you call him out on it?

[GEM]

Yawn, more of the same doom and gloom from a 'die hard' fan. It's not about eating crow or being right or wrong, it's simply about supporting a team you so vehemently claim you are a fan of. He could lose the next 5, absolutely, but is it too much to ask to wait until he actually does it before you call him out on it?

If you don't want to see negative posts on Tebow, you probably should log out cause I'm not the only one saying this. ;)

Is it too much to want better play? Is it too much to expect better play? I don't think so. Otherwise you stay mediocre. If you're ok with mediocre, that's your business. Personally, I am tired of mediocre and I want more.

[wayninja]

If you don't want to see negative posts on Tebow, you probably should log out cause I'm not the only one saying this. ;)

Is it too much to want better play? Is it too much to expect better play? I don't think so. Otherwise you stay mediocre. If you're ok with mediocre, that's your business. Personally, I am tired of mediocre and I want more.

I'm no Tebow homer, I had never heard of the guy until we drafted him. Criticize away. Just don't think it's fair to criticize future events, that's all.

It's not too much to expect better play. I want that too and don't think he did well at all. Having said that, his record at 2-3 is a lot better than some great HOF QB's having played the same number of games. Cam is having a stellar year and the panthers still aren't a good team. It takes more than just a QB, we've got problems all over, so let's at least recognize that.

[spikerman]

If you don't want to see negative posts on Tebow, you probably should log out cause I'm not the only one saying this. ;)

Is it too much to want better play? Is it too much to expect better play? I don't think so. Otherwise you stay mediocre. If you're ok with mediocre, that's your business. Personally, I am tired of mediocre and I want more.

Frankly, at this point I would be thrilled with mediocre from the entire team.

[GEM]

I'm no Tebow homer, I had never heard of the guy until we drafted him. Criticize away. Just don't think it's fair to criticize future events, that's all.

It's not too much to expect better play. I want that too and don't think he did well at all. Having said that, his record at 2-3 is a lot better than some great HOF QB's having played the same number of games. Cam is having a stellar year and the panthers still aren't a good team. It takes more than just a QB, we've got problems all over, so let's at least recognize that.

You went gung ho off a couple of posts. Show me where I have said that QB is the only issue.

I just posted earlier that we are probably bottom 5 in talent for the entire league. From YEARS of bad drafting and bad FA choices. It will take some time to fix that. I just want to make advances and with Tebow I don't see that, I see regression and going further in the hole. I don't want to go to the offense that some want for Tebow, because I don't see that as advancement, I see that as regression. Asking the other young players to take it down a few notches to a college style offense...and then what when they figure out that Tebow is not the answer. At that point those other players have regressed and haven't gotten better at an offense that we need to be competitive in the NFL?

[MOtorboat]

Yawn, more of the same doom and gloom from a 'die hard' fan. It's not about eating crow or being right or wrong, it's simply about supporting a team you so vehemently claim you are a fan of. He could lose the next 5, absolutely, but is it too much to ask to wait until he actually does it before you call him out on it?

For two straight Sundays Tebow played like shit. I'm going to call him out for that.

And because of that, I don't have much hope he'll lead Denver to a victory against a solid Raiders team.

[Cugel]

wrong! he has pat bowlen's cheap ass to blame for the coaching staff. . . harbaugh was the coach elway wanted, and we were never in contention because he wasn't in our price range. . . not to say that he would have come here anyway, but the fact that we couldn't even get in for a sham interview like miami was a little discouraging. . . when you force somebody to pick from the wal-mart bargain DVD bin, you shouldn't be surprised when they don't come up with a good movie. . .

NONE of this was at all correct. Harbaugh wanted to stay in the Bay area and when the 49ers job came open he grabbed it. The rest of the interviews were like interviewing your backup colleges.

It was NOTHING to do with the price. John Elway would have met his asking price if Harbaugh had been willing to come here. And he would have convinced Pat Bowlen to hire Harbaugh.

Elway KNEW that Harbaugh would command top $ when he tried to get him to Denver for an interview. If he wasn't going to pay he wouldn't have bothered.

Harbaugh couldn't have been less interested in the Denver job, for lots of reasons.

As for Fox he was hired because he understands and coaches DEFENSES. And DEFENSE was and still is Denver's biggest problem (aside from drafting a starting QB next year).

[silkamilkamonico]

NONE of this was at all correct. Harbaugh wanted to stay in the Bay area and when the 49ers job came open he grabbed it. The rest of the interviews were like interviewing your backup colleges.

It was NOTHING to do with the price. John Elway would have met his asking price if Harbaugh had been willing to come here. And he would have convinced Pat Bowlen to hire Harbaugh.

Elway KNEW that Harbaugh would command top $ when he tried to get him to Denver for an interview. If he wasn't going to pay he wouldn't have bothered.

Harbaugh couldn't have been less interested in the Denver job, for lots of reasons.

As for Fox he was hired because he understands and coaches DEFENSES. And DEFENSE was and still is Denver's biggest problem (aside from drafting a starting QB next year).

This post is way off. John Elway was restricted with price because of the past issues this organization has had with coaches. It has been documented.

[wayninja]

For two straight Sundays Tebow played like shit. I'm going to call him out for that.

And because of that, I don't have much hope he'll lead Denver to a victory against a solid Raiders team.

He played well enough to go 1-1 in those 2 outings. I'll take playing like shit but getting a win any day.

[Cugel]

What exactly defines 'college style'? I'm a broncos fan, and I want to do whatever we have to in order to win. If that means catering to what tebow does well, then so be it. I don't care if it's College style or monkey style. Let's just make it easier to win, shall we?

It may not matter to you but it does matter to Pat Bowlen!

Bowlen is paying Tebow close to $8 million this year (including everything).

Does he want to see his future "franchise QB" running around in space while Troy Polomalu lines up a kill shot on him?

No. :coffee:

You saw that in the game where Tebow ran for a 1st down and a S came up and hit him in the knee. For that long second before they helped Tebow up everybody was thinking "Oh God! He's been hurt!"

Simply NO WAY he will last in the NFL if he keeps running around like that and taking big hits. And they are NOT going to pay him $8 to $10 million a year to be the starting QB if he's not going to last.

Thus endeth the "let Tebow be Tebow" crap. :coffee:

[arapaho2]

I agree the playcalling has been atrocious. And I agree they should be calling intermediate passes that move the chains, but we do not need to change to a college style offense which is what Tebow fans want.


all i say is somewhere between the two is a set of plays that would give us the best chance at success

what we been doing for the majority of his games...is not working

[Cugel]

He played well enough to go 1-1 in those 2 outings. I'll take playing like shit but getting a win any day.

The NFL salary cap says different.

There's a "QB style" that gets you hammered week in and week out and out of the league with injury in a short career.

And there's the style where you sit back in the pocket where you're protected and throw the ball accurately on time and on target.

One of those styles has a future in the NFL and the other doesn't. And winning or losing a few games doesn't enter into it!

[Cugel]

This post is way off. John Elway was restricted with price because of the past issues this organization has had with coaches. It has been documented.

Elway WAS "restricted" because Bowlen didn't want to pay another $7 million for a coach.

But, all Elway had to do was say to Bowlen "it's John Harbaugh. He's going to be the next great coach in the NFL."

That's the difference in price between John Harbaugh and John Fox.

Even casual fans KNEW what Harbaugh's price was going to be. And Elway knew.

Yet he was still trying to hire him. And it was NOT go get him to fly out to Denver and tell him "Gee! We know you have other offers for around $5-7 million a year. But how about coming here to work for $3 million?" :coffee:

[jlarsiii]

Kind of tired of the teboi apologists. Quite frankly, I don't see how anyone could watch the last 2 games and not come away thinking that Tebow is horrible. The dude is just that...horrible.

I find it funny that people want to include the short range throws with slants and such. Where is there evidence that Tebow can even make those throws? You have to throw the ball to a spot accurately on a route that takes precise timing and hope your WR is where he needs to be at the exact moment to make the catch. If the throw is off it is an incomplete or a pick. Tebow hasn't even been able to do that. He is doing the same college thing of clearly needing to see his receivers open before he throws. That so doesn't work in the NFL.

Orton could actually make those throws so they could call those plays. Tebow can't so they will not call those plays. It is silly to think there is any other reason for this play calling discrepancy then that. Orton sucks balls but he could at least make the timing throws.

It has become very clear that they weren't lying when they said Orton gave us the best chance to win (although to be clear they never said that this chance was a strong chance), and why Lloyd wanted off this team when Tebow was going to start.

[NorCalBronco7]

Kind of tired of the teboi apologists. Quite frankly, I don't see how anyone could watch the last 2 games and not come away thinking that Tebow is horrible. The dude is just that...horrible.

I find it funny that people want to include the short range throws with slants and such. Where is there evidence that Tebow can even make those throws? You have to throw the ball to a spot accurately on a route that takes precise timing and hope your WR is where he needs to be at the exact moment to make the catch. If the throw is off it is an incomplete or a pick. Tebow hasn't even been able to do that. He is doing the same college thing of clearly needing to see his receivers open before he throws. That so doesn't work in the NFL.

Orton could actually make those throws so they could call those plays. Tebow can't so they will not call those plays. It is silly to think there is any other reason for this play calling discrepancy then that. Orton sucks balls but he could at least make the timing throws.

It has become very clear that they weren't lying when they said Orton gave us the best chance to win (although to be clear they never said that this chance was a strong chance), and why Lloyd wanted off this team when Tebow was going to start.

:beer:

Its funny reading people yap about how McCoy is doing a horrible job and that he should call more (insert route/rollout here). Tebow cant throw, period! It starts with him.

And if fans or anyone thinks after watching Tebow these 2 games thats hes even close to the Qb Orton is, your just a stupid, glass licking moran.

[chazoe60]

Debating who's better between Tebow and Orton is like debating which breed of dog's shit tastes better.

[NorCalBronco7]

Debating who's better between Tebow and Orton is like debating which breed of dog's shit tastes better.

We've done A LOT of that debating Chaz. Im sure you remember. And Im pretty sure I was one very few that thought Orton gave us the best chance to win. You we'rent convinced. Just rubbing it in a little....

[Tned]

Debating who's better between Tebow and Orton is like debating which breed of dog's shit tastes better.

Well, I know my Poodle's shit don't stink, but I can't really address the taste...

[chazoe60]

We've done A LOT of that debating Chaz. Im sure you remember. And Im pretty sure I was one very few that thought Orton gave us the best chance to win. You we'rent convinced. Just rubbing it in a little....

All I ever wanted in those debates was someone pther than Orton, because Orton is terrible. Just because Tebow is turning out to be terrible also doesn't mean Orton was better than what most of thought he was.

Keep in mind too they've both won the same amount of games this season. Don't forget how God awful Orton has played in his last 7 games, starting with the last two dumpster fire games last season (KC & ARI).

If we give Tebow a couple more games and he still looks like a Highschooler, then go to Quinn. If Quinn sucks it up, put in Weber for a game or two to finish the season.

Putting Orton back in does absolutely nothing for this franchise. And the idea that he somehow gives us anymore of a chance to win is debunked by the fact that he hasn't actually done any winning. Hell, he's supposed to be on the game manager side of the QB spectrum yet he was leading the league in turnovers.

Bottom line, at this moment we don't have a capable NFL starter on the roster.

[Nomad]

WEBBER needs his shot next if Johnny Boy throws in the towel....gotta see what he can do!

[MOtorboat]

Weber...it's W-e-b-e-r

[chazoe60]

Look at the name nazi and laugh everyone. :laugh:

[NorCalBronco7]

All I ever wanted in those debates was someone pther than Orton, because Orton is terrible. Just because Tebow is turning out to be terrible also doesn't mean Orton was better than what most of thought he was.

Keep in mind too they've both won the same amount of games this season. Don't forget how God awful Orton has played in his last 7 games, starting with the last two dumpster fire games last season (KC & ARI).

If we give Tebow a couple more games and he still looks like a Highschooler, then go to Quinn. If Quinn sucks it up, put in Weber for a game or two to finish the season.

Putting Orton back in does absolutely nothing for this franchise. And the idea that he somehow gives us anymore of a chance to win is debunked by the fact that he hasn't actually done any winning. Hell, he's supposed to be on the game manager side of the QB spectrum yet he was leading the league in turnovers.

Bottom line, at this moment we don't have a capable NFL starter on the roster.

No Tebow playing as bad as he is is the reason Ortons a better Qb.....But enough of this.

I want Tebow to start the rest of the season. Hes young, and MAYBE he shows improvement (Ive seen none thus far). Quinn is garbage and I dont care to see him get starts. And for the people who want Weber to start :lol:

[Nomad]

Look at the name nazi and laugh everyone. :laugh:

I've never been a person to get wound up when my last name is said or spelled wrong but I do laugh at the ones who get bent out of shape over their names said or written wrong.

[MOtorboat]

Look at the name nazi and laugh everyone. :laugh:

He's going to start for the Denver Broncos in five weeks. Everyone needs to know how to spell his name.

[Nomad]

. And for the people who want Weber to start :lol:

It would be someone different for people around here to whine about!:ohwell:

[Nomad]

He's going to start for the Denver Broncos in five weeks. Everyone needs to know how to spell his name.

Weber...Webber...just go throw the damn football to the receivers, positive yardage and touchdowns.....wins will be bonuses!

[NightTerror218]

I'm not 40 yet (a couple years)......does that make me a man or a young man?!?:D

I am not 30 yet where do I sit?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi just asked Elway if he thought Tebwo made any progress from last week to the this week. He said no.

To be fair he said the play calliing could have been a little better and well as the play of everyone else. However, he also said playing will only take you so far you still have to execute plays and you've got to convert 3rd downs or you will not win in this League. Please understand this isn't verbatim but I think I got the basic jist.

For anyone that things going back to Orton is a solution. We weren't scoring points with Orton or converting 3rd downs within in line up either. Anyway one that thinks that ought to go back and look at the first four games.

The John Elway show is on now - of course, the first thing they ask John in regards to Tebow was if he made progress, and he said he did some good things in the pocket, and he mentioned one other thing - sorry, I did not catch it.

Maybe after watching the game film, John did find some positives. In regards to one of Tebow's interceptions, he said the line needs to do a better job.

[Lancane]

The John Elway show is on now - of course, the first thing they ask John in regards to Tebow was if he made progress, and he said he did some good things in the pocket, and he mentioned one other thing - sorry, I did not catch it.

Maybe after watching the game film, John did find some positives. In regards to one of Tebow's interceptions, he said the line needs to do a better job.

Sounds like he's trying to be politically correct, I trust the answer he gave earlier far more.

[weazel]

Im sorry but Tebow is horrible but the front office looks to be at about the same skill level.

Elway, Fox and company let the fans tell them what to do... and now we are seeing what they seen in practice. A professional organization doesnt let the fans tell them what to do, this kind of proves that they shouldn't be in the positions they are in.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Sounds like he's trying to be politically correct, I trust the answer he gave earlier far more.

The earlier answer was first thing this morning - before watching game film. Possibly he realized that NOT everything that went wrong was TT's fault after watching the game film.

[Medford Bronco]

I don't think Elway is happy at all IMHO. Not with Tebow or the coaching staff!

You mean you dont love our 1945 game plan.

Run 90% on first and 2nd down and pray for a 3rd down conversion:lol:

[Tned]

Im sorry but Tebow is horrible but the front office looks to be at about the same skill level.

Elway, Fox and company let the fans tell them what to do... and now we are seeing what they seen in practice. A professional organization doesnt let the fans tell them what to do, this kind of proves that they shouldn't be in the positions they are in.

I think 1-4 and that first half by Orton had a LOT to do with the front offices decision. If Orton had played even reasonably well, then he would probably still be starting.

[Lancane]

The earlier answer was first thing this morning - before watching game film. Possibly he realized that NOT everything that went wrong was TT's fault after watching the game film.

No one believes that anymore Carol, almost everyone agrees that Elway gave into the demand of the fans (Tebowites), even those with close ties to the organization believe that. Now he doesn't know which direction to go, I believe that had Fox decided to bench Tebow that, that would not have been what he said.

And Carol, people have a tendency to be far more honest earlier in the morning after they just recently woke up.

Believe what you want, and I'll do the same! :beer:

[BroncoBJ]

Why is everyone making excuses saying " Its only his 5th NFL Start?" That excuse only works for every other Young QB in NFL history that ever played the game. Tebow has different standards. He has to be flawless in every game, every snap that he plays. :fight: Thats just the standards that everyone has for him.

[Lancane]

Why is everyone making excuses saying " Its only his 5th NFL Start?" That excuse only works for every other Young QB in NFL history that ever played the game. Tebow has different standards. He has to be flawless in every game, every snap that he plays. :fight: Thats just the standards that everyone has for him.

He's not even up to rookie standards BJ, because most of the other young quarterbacks don't need their team's fans to make such an excuse.

;)

[Tned]

No one believes that anymore Carol, almost everyone agrees that Elway gave into the demand of the fans (Tebowites), even those with close ties to the organization believe that. Now he doesn't know which direction to go, I believe that had Fox decided to bench Tebow that, that would not have been what he said.

And Carol, people have a tendency to be far more honest earlier in the morning after they just recently woke up.

Believe what you want, and I'll do the same! :beer:

Oh my God, you don't actually believe half the stuff you type, do you?

[BroncoBJ]

He's not even up to rookie standards BJ, because most of the other young quarterbacks don't need their team's fans to make such an excuse.

;)

Just sayin, all these other young QB's out there who struggle and don't play well, no one says a word about them other then " Well they are still young, they will improve" .. But with Tebow its " Hes the worst QB in NFL History" :lol:

And then when ever he has a decent game its just a fluke. Crazy how every little pass he does, he gets analyzed on.

[Tned]

Just sayin, all these other young QB's out there who struggle and don't play well, no one says a word about them other then " Well they are still young, they will improve" .. But with Tebow its " Hes the worst QB in NFL History" :lol:

And then when ever he has a decent game its just a fluke. Crazy how every little pass he does, he gets analyzed on.

First, I'll qualify this by saying he sucked the first two starts this year.

That said, to your point, it was one of the preseason games where they took Orton's only good throw and Tebow's only bad throw, and showed and compared them on ESPN, or something along those lines. He's a lightening rod for criticism, so obviously when he plays bad, that criticism is going to be off the charts.

[BroncoBJ]

First, I'll qualify this by saying he sucked the first two starts this year.

That said, to your point, it was one of the preseason games where they took Orton's only good throw and Tebow's only bad throw, and showed and compared them on ESPN, or something along those lines. He's a lightening rod for criticism, so obviously when he plays bad, that criticism is going to be off the charts.

Oh, I agree with you, he has sucked. But I also believe had it been any other QB, who played exactly how he played, no one would talk about him. Why isn't ESPN or any other media outlets saying " Is Gabbart the worst starting QB?" " Is Beck the worst starting QB?" Why just Tebow?

But yea, I remember when they showed Ortons good throw and Tebows bad and talked about how in the NFL you cant do that.

Just a joke how they treat him. But by benching him, we'll never see if he can get better or do anything. But like someone else said on here, his passing looked a little better and there wasn't that many passes that went clear over everyones head and in to the sidelines.

Just crazy how hes now officially the worst starting QB in the league. People are just obssessed with him. :fight:

[rcsodak]

While I'm not surprised you are :confused: (come on, you lobbed me that soft ball), is there anything in particular with my statement that confused you?

We drated Cutler in '06, Tebow in '10, and appear set to draft our 3rd first round QB in '12.

Lol

Just the way you said it, T.

'3 in 6' ≠ '1 every 3'. ;')

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[rcsodak]

LMAO @ fair weather. Ask the admin of this site how long I've been on Broncos sites. Most of the people on here I have known for over 5 years, some for more than 7. I was born in 75 and remember watching games with my dad at the time I was hitting preschool. Don't ******* tell me I'm a fair weather fan, Teboi. That is not a ******* road you want to go down.

You tell him, Mrs Top.


:laugh:

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[Tned]

Lol

Just the way you said it, T.

'3 in 6' ≠ '1 every 3'. ;')

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Actually, it is. Common (read Dakota) thinking would say that it would be one every 2 years, 6 / 3 = 2, but that would be wrong. Us Arkansas folk can work a math problem.

At the start of our six year period, we draft a QB, then at the end, we draft a QB. So, while it was actually, draft a QB, then four years later, draft a QB, and then two years later, draft another QB (assuming we draft one in '12), if you are smoothing it, then it equates to drafting a first round QB every three years.

:coffee:

That said, nice use of the ≠ symbol. :salute:

[BroncoBJ]

Watching the Chargers game now, I'm starting to think that Rivers is the worst QB in the league and I havn't seen him make improvement from 2 weeks ago, til today. Thoughts?

[rcsodak]

Disagree. He has six sacks already and he's probably going to clear ten with some ease while being on a front seven that is god awful. I'd argue that the scheme does not exactly help him out either.

And gets pulled because he leaves gaping holes for rb's/qb's to run through.
He's not good in coverage, not good against the run, and is already slowing down not even half way into the season.
Dareus-3.5sacks from DT position/tipped pass for Int TD/plugs up the middle leading to Buff's resurgence.

Miller-6sacks

He looked unstoppable in preseason, but we all know the reason for that, right?
Right now, he's Doom Dos. That's not a promising future for a #2 overall pick, imo.
I fear he needs to be in a 34 to excel, or have #1 picks on the Dline....which just tells me EFX
screwed the pooch and drafted out of order of importance.

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[Denver Native (Carol)]

No one believes that anymore Carol, almost everyone agrees that Elway gave into the demand of the fans (Tebowites), even those with close ties to the organization believe that. Now he doesn't know which direction to go, I believe that had Fox decided to bench Tebow that, that would not have been what he said.

And Carol, people have a tendency to be far more honest earlier in the morning after they just recently woke up.

Believe what you want, and I'll do the same! :beer:

I for one, do not believe that Elway gave into the fans - WHY - Orton - no contract next year, Quinn - no contract next year - that leaves Tebow - gotta see what he can do, so to know which direction to go in draft.

[MOtorboat]

Watching the Chargers game now, I'm starting to think that Rivers is the worst QB in the league and I havn't seen him make improvement from 2 weeks ago, til today. Thoughts?

I see what you did here...

He's been bad, no doubt, but again, that doesn't excuse Tebow's inability to hit wide open receivers.

But it's a nice deflection.

Edit: And just as I hit submit, Rivers throws a pass in stride for YAC...wish we had a QB that could do that...

[rcsodak]

yes indeed.....but your not seeing the point...its not so much the term spread offnese

what were doing whether from the shotgun or drop back is slow deeper routes...you cant ignore the fact we dont run quick shallow crossing patterns, screens, quick outs, bubble screens very often if at all with tebow

specially against suh and our putrid oline...you need quick hits..3 step and fire...

again only 25 % of tebows attempts have been within ten yards of the LOL
compare that to 73% for orton
:confused:

So let me get this straight, rap.....







....you want McCoy to run the same 'at the LOS' pass plays that you and and a bunch of others were CURSING while McD was here? Bubblescreens? 5yd passes? Backward passes?

Will that make TT be known as a 'noodlearm' as well? ;')

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[rcsodak]

To add to the not being a fair weather fan....my favorite player of all time is Meck....you don't love a player who played in the 80's if you are a fair weather fan. 1987 AFC Championship win...going up and down my street with my mom's Broncos car window screen yelling that we were going to the Super Bowl. That memory doesn't exist with a fair weather fan. Wearing my blue McCaffrey jersey to MNF vs. the Raiders 8 mos pregnant while telling some freaking Raiturd to kiss my ass because he told me the Broncos suck. 1996.

Better check your facts before spewing that bullshit again.

Deep breaths, G......deeeeeeep breathsssssssssss.

Lol


;')

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[BroncoBJ]

I see what you did here...

He's been bad, no doubt, but again, that doesn't excuse Tebow's inability to hit wide open receivers.

But it's a nice deflection.

Edit: And just as I hit submit, Rivers throws a pass in stride for YAC...wish we had a QB that could do that...

Yea, but had that been Tebow that hit a WR in stride for YAC, and was 4/10 54 yards with 2 ints, people would say " Yay a lucky pass, wish he'd be consistant"

So its really lose lose.

But yes, I do wish we had a QB who could do that and hopefully Tebow can do that. If not, on to the draft. :rockon:

[rcsodak]

I'm no Tebow homer, I had never heard of the guy until we drafted him. Criticize away. Just don't think it's fair to criticize future events, that's all.

It's not too much to expect better play. I want that too and don't think he did well at all. Having said that, his record at 2-3 is a lot better than some great HOF QB's having played the same number of games. Cam is having a stellar year and the panthers still aren't a good team. It takes more than just a QB, we've got problems all over, so let's at least recognize that.
Newton threw for more yards in his very 1st game than TT has in 2(or damn close).
Newton>Timmy

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[MOtorboat]

Yea, but had that been Tebow that hit a WR in stride for YAC, and was 4/10 54 yards with 2 ints, people would say " Yay a lucky pass, wish he'd be consistant"

So its really lose lose.

But yes, I do wish we had a QB who could do that and hopefully Tebow can do that. If not, on to the draft. :rockon:

What was Tebow's first half numbers? 4 of 13 for 12 yards, or something like that?

[BroncoBJ]

What was Tebow's first half numbers? 4 of 13 for 12 yards, or something like that?

Yea, was an improvement from Miami though to where he was like 3/11 for 8 yards or something :lol:

Baby Steps.

By the end of the year, I expect his 1st half numbers to be 9 of 21 for 61 yards. :elefant:

[Lancane]

What was Tebow's first half numbers? 4 of 13 for 12 yards, or something like that?

Don't forget the pass he threw towards the God in heaven, since that's the only one who he could have been throwing to!

:lol:

[rcsodak]

You went gung ho off a couple of posts. Show me where I have said that QB is the only issue.

I just posted earlier that we are probably bottom 5 in talent for the entire league. From YEARS of bad drafting and bad FA choices. It will take some time to fix that. I just want to make advances and with Tebow I don't see that, I see regression and going further in the hole. I don't want to go to the offense that some want for Tebow, because I don't see that as advancement, I see that as regression. Asking the other young players to take it down a few notches to a college style offense...and then what when they figure out that Tebow is not the answer. At that point those other players have regressed and haven't gotten better at an offense that we need to be competitive in the NFL?
Not to forget, the vets sure don't want to see it either, i'm sure.
Now we know why Lloyd asked to be traded, as well as Eddie.

Frankly, I was thinking the team was getting better up to where TT was put in. In all of the games but 1, to that point. Missing wr's/te's/Dlinemen and champ. I was stoked for what coulda been, after the bye.
But now........ :puke:

Even worse qb play leading to the D being on the field even more.
Scoring 14/gm isn't going to win ANY games against the remaining schedule.

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[rcsodak]

He played well enough to go 1-1 in those 2 outings. I'll take playing like shit but getting a win any day.
Who'd they luckily beat?

Oh yeah.....a winless, lameduck HeadCoached team. Gotcha.

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[rcsodak]

The NFL salary cap says different.

There's a "QB style" that gets you hammered week in and week out and out of the league with injury in a short career.

And there's the style where you sit back in the pocket where you're protected and throw the ball accurately on time and on target.

One of those styles has a future in the NFL and the other doesn't. And winning or losing a few games doesn't enter into it!

Boomer Esiason said it best today:
'I would gladly have Tebow as a son-in-law. But Not my starting QB'.

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[rcsodak]

I am not 30 yet where do I sit?
If you're lucky, on Gems lap.

;')

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[rcsodak]

The John Elway show is on now - of course, the first thing they ask John in regards to Tebow was if he made progress, and he said he did some good things in the pocket, and he mentioned one other thing - sorry, I did not catch it.

Maybe after watching the game film, John did find some positives. In regards to one of Tebow's interceptions, he said the line needs to do a better job.
I missed the very end. He threw more than the pick6?

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[rcsodak]

No one believes that anymore Carol, almost everyone agrees that Elway gave into the demand of the fans (Tebowites), even those with close ties to the organization believe that. Now he doesn't know which direction to go, I believe that had Fox decided to bench Tebow that, that would not have been what he said.

And Carol, people have a tendency to be far more honest earlier in the morning after they just recently woke up.

Believe what you want, and I'll do the same! :beer:
Unless you're a fly on the wall, the call to insert and start TT has been Fox. Per his own words as well as elway's.

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[Tned]

I missed the very end. He threw more than the pick6?

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No, one INT. He's 4 TD's, 1 INT on the season vs. Orton's 8 TD's, 7 INT's.

He did have the fumble returned for a TD, which I think was before the INT.

[Lancane]

Unless you're a fly on the wall, the call to insert and start TT has been Fox. Per his own words as well as elway's.

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That's sort of my point, Elway this morning was completely honest when he was asked 'Did you see any improvement regarding Tebow' and he said "No" and went on about how it's a quarterbacks job to do this and this. Then Fox says "That he saw slight improvement", the next thing we know Elway is saying the same. Pretty much PR Damage Control for the Tebowites, or that's my opinion at least.

But had Fox agreed or said he was going to bench Tim, then I am sure Elway's answer would have been the same...again, just my two cents.

[rcsodak]

Just sayin, all these other young QB's out there who struggle and don't play well, no one says a word about them other then " Well they are still young, they will improve" .. But with Tebow its " Hes the worst QB in NFL History" :lol:

And then when ever he has a decent game its just a fluke. Crazy how every little pass he does, he gets analyzed on.
Name another 1st rd QB in the last few yrs to be 0-20 on 3rd downs, in their 4th/5th games, before they pick up their 1st one.

Currently, he's being outplayed by 2nd rd draft picks in their rookie seasons with ZERO offseasons and truncated training camps!

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[rcsodak]

No, one INT. He's 4 TD's, 1 INT on the season vs. Orton's 8 TD's, 7 INT's.

He did have the fumble returned for a TD, which I think was before the INT.
Didn't think so, but carols post said "one of his interceptions".
And reason for bringing up Orton stats? :confused:

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[BroncoBJ]

Name another 1st rd QB in the last few yrs to be 0-20 on 3rd downs, in their 4th/5th games, before they pick up their 1st one.

Currently, he's being outplayed by 2nd rd draft picks in their rookie seasons with ZERO offseasons and truncated training camps!

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Hmm, thats a good stat. I'm not sure. I'll have to look up and find out. That is pretty pathetic though.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not 40 yet (a couple years)......does that make me a man or a young man?!?:D

It means you're a little more than 10 years away from prostrate exams.

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[rcsodak]

Lmao...sorry, but just read some posts on yahoo......

6 Hours Ago

"Stand Up Clipper Nation JaMarcus was better than Tebow without even trying. FACT."

5 Hours Ago

"OldSchoolNoles I've got my #15 Tebow Jersey on for Halloween as my costume. When I open the door to trick or treaters I'm going to throw the candy behind them,and on the ground at their feet! "

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[drewloc]

I am not 30 yet where do I sit?
If you're lucky, on Gems lap.

;')

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Not that I would say no to that, but I would much rather have her sitting next to me with a pint and both of us trying to figure out what the hell the broncos are doing out there.

[Medford Bronco]

I see what you did here...

He's been bad, no doubt, but again, that doesn't excuse Tebow's inability to hit wide open receivers.

But it's a nice deflection.

Edit: And just as I hit submit, Rivers throws a pass in stride for YAC...wish we had a QB that could do that...

Rivers is a douche but much better than anything we have had since Elway and no Cutler is not better for those who love him.

I would take Cutler now big time. I WAS WRONG ON CUTLER SO DONT BASH PLS.

[TXBRONC]

The John Elway show is on now - of course, the first thing they ask John in regards to Tebow was if he made progress, and he said he did some good things in the pocket, and he mentioned one other thing - sorry, I did not catch it.

Maybe after watching the game film, John did find some positives. In regards to one of Tebow's interceptions, he said the line needs to do a better job.

Maybe he's backing off a bit but saying that Tebow did some good things doesn't mean he thinks made progress.

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[Medford Bronco]

Maybe he's backing off a bit but saying that Tebow did some good things doesn't mean he thinks made progress.

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Now to play devils advocate, what did Tebow really do well. Not trip at the coin toss?

He was God awful for what I saw. He should have gotten us up
7-0 and badly missed his WR in the 1st drive.

the pick 6 and fumble 6 were pathetic.

I want the kid to do well but I think he is not NFL ready. Josh tried to hide him and now i know why and I hate JOSH with a passion.

[TXBRONC]

Now to play devils advocate, what did Tebow really do well. Not trip at the coin toss?

He was God awful for what I saw. He should have gotten us up
7-0 and badly missed his WR in the 1st drive.

the pick 6 and fumble 6 were pathetic.

I want the kid to do well but I think he is not NFL ready. Josh tried to hide him and now i know why and I hate JOSH with a passion.

Orton still gets to go out for the coin toss because he's still a team captain. :D

I want Tebow to succeed but I'm less confident of that happening.
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[Lancane]

Lmao...sorry, but just read some posts on yahoo......

6 Hours Ago

"Stand Up Clipper Nation JaMarcus was better than Tebow without even trying. FACT."

5 Hours Ago

"OldSchoolNoles I've got my #15 Tebow Jersey on for Halloween as my costume. When I open the door to trick or treaters I'm going to throw the candy behind them,and on the ground at their feet! "

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:rofl:

Now that is funny! :lol:

[Tned]

Didn't think so, but carols post said "one of his interceptions".
And reason for bringing up Orton stats? :confused:

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Perspective, we all need some.

[Nomad]

It means you're a little more than 10 years away from prostrate exams.

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As long as the doctor doesn't have goliath fingers!:lol:

[Poet]

Now to play devils advocate, what did Tebow really do well. Not trip at the coin toss?

He was God awful for what I saw. He should have gotten us up
7-0 and badly missed his WR in the 1st drive.

the pick 6 and fumble 6 were pathetic.

I want the kid to do well but I think he is not NFL ready. Josh tried to hide him and now i know why and I hate JOSH with a passion.

Actually the pass he hit Decker with was a beauty. Decker's young and kept running when he should have dragged his feet.

I've seen worse from starting quarterbacks. Go check out some of Troy Aikman's game logs as a rookie.

Does he have an NFL arm? Yes.

Does he have NFL mobility? Yes.

Does he have the work ethic? Yes.

Does he have intangibles/clutchness? Yes.

He is a player who needs a lot of time. Denver is an awful situation for him to be in. A bad coach with an outdated offense that has zero creativity coupled with a franchise that has been getting reamed for years. Tebow needs to be in a place that has some patience and time.

For some reason, last week he was the savior and oh so good. Now he's the worst thing of all time.

I guess the biggest thing that makes me laugh is a young QB whose offensive line failed him put up AWFUL results and everyone now thinks he's somehow garbage.

The guy has a future, it's just not going to be in Denver.

[TT15Superman]

For some reason, last week he was the savior and oh so good. Now he's the worst thing of all time.That's what you get with the haters/lovers crowd. Haters will pile it on when there's bad. Lovers will pile it on when there's good. No middle-sensible ground (from most) with Tebow.

[Jsteve01]

I think I've been pretty centrist on the Tebow thing. Far too early to know what to make of him. I'll tell you one thing. With his drive I wouldn't want to be the one to write him off too soon and then have him go on to dominance elsewhere.

All that said. He's a long term project. Plain and simple. The Broncos must have a viable stopgap ala kitna. This OJT is horrid

[rcsodak]

Perspective, we all need some.
Want some in reverse? I got me some doozies.

Oh wait. So does everybody else. :wink:

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[rcsodak]

Actually the pass he hit Decker with was a beauty. Decker's young and kept running when he should have dragged his feet.

I've seen worse from starting quarterbacks. Go check out some of Troy Aikman's game logs as a rookie.

Does he have an NFL arm? Yes.

Does he have NFL mobility? Yes.

Does he have the work ethic? Yes.

Does he have intangibles/clutchness? Yes.

He is a player who needs a lot of time. Denver is an awful situation for him to be in. A bad coach with an outdated offense that has zero creativity coupled with a franchise that has been getting reamed for years. Tebow needs to be in a place that has some patience and time.

For some reason, last week he was the savior and oh so good. Now he's the worst thing of all time.

I guess the biggest thing that makes me laugh is a young QB whose offensive line failed him put up AWFUL results and everyone now thinks he's somehow garbage.

The guy has a future, it's just not going to be in Denver.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Then u take him.

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[Traveler]

I want the kid to do well but I think he is not NFL ready. Josh tried to hide him and now i know why and I hate JOSH with a passion.

It burns my butt everytime I think of how badly our previous coach screwed this franchise. EFX will be cleaning this mess up for years.

It is clear now why Tebow wasn't getting practice reps during the season last year. IIRC, McD stated after meeting with Tebow before the draft how he was surprised at how quickly the kid was picking up the offense and terminology.

Sadly, none of that translated to the field.

[Tned]

Want some in reverse? I got me some doozies.

Oh wait. So does everybody else. :wink:

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Yea, but some of you guys have really warped perceptions.

[Poet]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Then u take him.

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I gladly would.

[Cugel]

The guy has a future, it's just not going to be in Denver.

Why? Do the Rheinland Fire need a QB? :coffee:

[Buff]

What did Elway say today? I didn't get a chance to listen.

[Thnikkaman]

What did Elway say today? I didn't get a chance to listen.

Tune into the Rome show around 10:30 MST, and you can listen to him there.

[Tned]

I'm trying to go home for lunch, and will check out what he said. Probably up on a podcast as well.

[TXBRONC]

What did Elway say today? I didn't get a chance to listen.

It was nice team win. Tebow did show some improvement but when he was asked if a team can win consistently with a quarterback that only completes 50% of his pass he said no. He also you can miss open receivers. IIRC that happen at least two or three times yesterday.

[Buff]

Tune into the Rome show around 10:30 MST, and you can listen to him there.

I have lots of work this morning, so I probably won't be able to... But they did a surprisingly thorough job of summarizing his Vic n Gary appearance on the DP blog:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/07/elway-tim-tebow-improved-against-the-raiders/10597/

[rcsodak]

Yea, but some of you guys have really warped perceptions.
lol
First time my perceptions were called warped.

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[rcsodak]

Btw, your NFL Rewind is now 50% Off.

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