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TXBRONC
10-28-2011, 08:18 AM
Krieger: Brandon Lloyd adds fuel for Tebow detractors
By Dave Krieger
Denver Post Columnist
Posted: 10/28/2011 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 10/28/2011 02:11:10 AM MDT

In the interview, posted on sportsradiointerviews.com, Lloyd was asked to name the main issue Tebow poses for a receiver."The timing is an issue," he said. "There's just not that much separation that you can get in the NFL.

http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_19211825


FWIW I think it's a fair criticism. It's also correctable.

BroncoJoe
10-28-2011, 08:25 AM
FWIW I think it's a fair criticism. It's also correctable.

AND comes with lots of practice. The bi-week wasn't two weeks like everyone seems to bring up. They had four days off during that.

claymore
10-28-2011, 08:28 AM
Tebow overcame allot last week. Im impressed that he didnt give up. Timing comes with practice as Joe said.

Jagsbch
10-28-2011, 08:29 AM
Timing is the result of chemistry, result of allowing your QB to get into a passing rythm. Tebwo proved that despite the fact that his Timing needs the work you get from training camp and practicing with your starters, he still managed to make fantastic timing throws in the victory against Miami. This is on the coaching staff for sure.

TXBRONC
10-28-2011, 08:33 AM
AND comes with lots of practice. The bi-week wasn't two weeks like everyone seems to bring up. They had four days off during that.

Agreed.

The Glue Factory
10-28-2011, 08:37 AM
Timing is the result of chemistry, result of allowing your QB to get into a passing rythm. Tebwo proved that despite the fact that his Timing needs the work you get from training camp and practicing with your starters, he still managed to make fantastic timing throws in the victory against Miami. This is on the coaching staff for sure.

:tsk: :tsk: :tsk:

No. Just plain no.

G_Money
10-28-2011, 08:43 AM
Never having Tebow practice with the ones, EVER, in training camp, was not smart. That is on the coaches, actually.

But he needs more than a couple of reps to make a dent, so I don't think it's gonna make the difference between Tim's success and failure.

Before the end of the year I hope to see quicker progressions, more successful timing plays and for Tim to throw the ball to receivers before they break rather than needing to SEE that they're open and ready for the ball.

He's got 2 months' worth of practices and game time to make that happen.

~G

Juriga72
10-28-2011, 08:54 AM
Lets see here... A guy on his 5th NFL team is talking about "Chemistry".... ok. The same guy who has had ONE season where he has caught more than 48 passes is talking about "Chemistry"....

TXBRONC
10-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Lets see here... A guy on his 5th NFL team is talking about "Chemistry".... ok. The same guy who has had ONE season where he has caught more than 48 passes is talking about "Chemistry"....

It's a valid observation it doesn't matter if it came from Lloyd. Tebow was not on the same page for most of the game.

claymore
10-28-2011, 09:36 AM
It's a valid observation it doesn't matter if it came from Lloyd. Tebow was not on the same page for most of the game.

Lloyd usually tells the truth as he see's it. Id rather hear what he has to say vs Champ Bailey.

G_Money
10-28-2011, 09:41 AM
But clay, Slowik was Champ’s greatest DC, he loved McDaniels, he thinks the world of Kyle Orton and Tebow’s amazing in his opinion.

Are you saying taking Champ’s stated word for something might lead to an inaccurate assessment of the team?

~G

MileHighCrew
10-28-2011, 09:44 AM
Champ is a team guy, cut him some slack.

chazoe60
10-28-2011, 09:51 AM
Let's not dogpile on Champ because he doesn't like to ruffle feathers, unlike Lloyd, Champ has been consistent and will probably retire a Bronco. Champ is a leader of this team and he knows that he can't burn bridges and add to the circus.

Rex
10-28-2011, 10:02 AM
I think Brandon Lloyd will be selling used cars in 2 years

G_Money
10-28-2011, 10:07 AM
They might be new cars, Rex - cut him some slack.

~G

pnbronco
10-28-2011, 10:07 AM
Tim did practice with the ones at camp. Not a lot, but he did get some time with them as did Quinn. Kyle got the most but the other 2 did as well. Saw it with my own eyes, I only missed the first week. Probably the only one that didn't was Weber. He over/under threw Lloyd, Deckers, Royal, the TE's and ran when he was suppose to pass.

What I heard yesterday that actually made sense is that Tim is a sight passer. In that he has to see the WR/TE before he releases and doesn't trust the timing that they will be there when the ball gets there. They said that all good QB's in the NFL trust the timing and release quickly. Which explains why you see a pass go left when the WR goes right.

I just hope with Miami under his belt and that great pass to Willis and Fells that he can trust the timing more and play better from the beginning of the game.

Rex
10-28-2011, 10:07 AM
They might be new cars, Rex - cut him some slack.

~G

Good point. Probably SUVs.

G_Money
10-28-2011, 10:10 AM
And I'm not trying to make Champ out to be a bad guy, but him telling me "Tebow is great" means nothing, because Slowik and McD were great too, according to him. I can't trust his printed opinion, because he's very bland and team-oriented to the media, if not outright dishonest about what his privately held opinions are.

Hearing what is said about the team from those who leave is useful. They are no longer under presure to toe whatever company line there might be.

It also may not be 100% truthful, since there might be axes to grind or butt-hurt feelings, but it's still a useful vantage point from which to attempt to triangulate the truth.

~G

BroncoJoe
10-28-2011, 10:16 AM
And I'm not trying to make Champ out to be a bad guy, but him telling me "Tebow is great" means nothing, because Slowik and McD were great too, according to him. I can't trust his printed opinion, because he's very bland and team-oriented to the media, if not outright dishonest about what his privately held opinions are.

Hearing what is said about the team from those who leave is useful. They are no longer under presure to toe whatever company line there might be.

It also may not be 100% truthful, since there might be axes to grind or butt-hurt feelings, but it's still a useful vantage point from which to attempt to triangulate the truth.

~G

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

BORDERLINE
10-28-2011, 10:26 AM
yeah it's a valid point Lloyd made. My things is why even say it at all. I mean Lloyd is happy he is back with McD and out of his whole situation here in Denver. Why talk about Tebow? Why keep answering Tebow questions? I don't get it, be happy for the guy and keep it moving. He is not on your team anymore so why speak on it? I just don't see what Lloyd gains from this aside from having his quote up in sports blogs.

TXBRONC
10-28-2011, 10:31 AM
yeah it's a valid point Lloyd made. My things is why even say it at all. I mean Lloyd is happy he is back with McD and out of his whole situation here in Denver. Why talk about Tebow? Why keep answering Tebow questions? I don't get it, be happy for the guy and keep it moving. He is not on your team anymore so why speak on it? I just don't see what Lloyd gains from this aside from having his quote up in sports blogs.

Maybe he was asked. I don't see his statement as vicious not like Merrill Hoge.

BORDERLINE
10-28-2011, 10:37 AM
Maybe he was asked. I don't see his statement as vicious not like Merrill Hoge.

Oh no. I'm not grouping Lloyd in the whole anti-tebow campaign. It's just I don't see what he has to gain from an answer like that.

Ravage!!!
10-28-2011, 10:44 AM
Tim did practice with the ones at camp. Not a lot, but he did get some time with them as did Quinn. Kyle got the most but the other 2 did as well. Saw it with my own eyes, I only missed the first week. Probably the only one that didn't was Weber. He over/under threw Lloyd, Deckers, Royal, the TE's and ran when he was suppose to pass.

Thank you pn. This stuff about Tebow "NEVER EVER" getting to have reps is getting a bit over-done. No team gives equal time to the back-ups, and Tebow hadn't even proved to beat out Quinn. So its hard to criticize the coaches for not giving more valuable practice time to the back-ups.

Juriga72
10-28-2011, 11:24 AM
It's a valid observation it doesn't matter if it came from Lloyd. Tebow was not on the same page for most of the game.

Where was HIS "Chemistry" for the three years Llyod didnt catch a TD pass? BTW... Didnt Brandon COMPLAIN about this years passing game before he was cut? oh yeah.. he did...

“I think it’s just us, the coaching staff staying true to running the ball. I think we’ve kind of gotten into a game-management mode, into an aggressive ‘take control’ mode, and I think that’s what has limited us,” Lloyd said.

Is he upset? He says no, but where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

“There’s not very many people in the league that can do what I do, let alone on the team,” Lloyd said. “There is still a niche that I have and a talent that should be used.”

“Have we played a certain style of offense the first three weeks of the season? Yes,” offensive coordinator Mike McCoy said. “But we’ll find ways to get him the ball.”

McCoy also said he doesn’t mind it when his players ask for more opportunities. In fact, he encourages it.

Yup... Looks like he needed "More Chemistry" here earlier....:)

chazoe60
10-28-2011, 11:38 AM
One thing i've heard a lot lately and tend to agree with is that the defense loves Tebow while the offense prefers Orton.

Tim has more of a defensive mentality. I also think the defense sees Tim as a guy who can keep them off the firld a little more. I have noticed that most of the guys hugging Tim on the sidelines are defensive guys.

Until Tim can start being a more accurate and keep the offense on schedule more often he probably won't have the utmost faith from his offensive teammates. But the Defensive guys are going to always love him.

Just an interesting observation that kinda fits in the thread, sorry if it was too off topic.

LordTrychon
10-28-2011, 11:47 AM
One thing i've heard a lot lately and tend to agree with is that the defense loves Tebow while the offense prefers Orton.

Tim has more of a defensive mentality. I also think the defense sees Tim as a guy who can keep them off the firld a little more. I have noticed that most of the guys hugging Tim on the sidelines are defensive guys.

Until Tim can start being a more accurate and keep the offense on schedule more often he probably won't have the utmost faith from his offensive teammates. But the Defensive guys are going to always love him.

Just an interesting observation that kinda fits in the thread, sorry if it was too off topic.

Yeah, I think that's a keen observation. You could see the frustration in the offense at times... but I think if Tebow manages to improve, they'll come around if we can get some wins, for sure.

What I was going to say is that while you can't believe even a word out of Bailey's mouth when he's talking to the media... I CAN believe that he was pumped up enough to run over to Tebow to tell him they were getting him the ball back.

That says something too.

Cugel
10-28-2011, 02:06 PM
And I'm not trying to make Champ out to be a bad guy, but him telling me "Tebow is great" means nothing, because Slowik and McD were great too, according to him. I can't trust his printed opinion, because he's very bland and team-oriented to the media, if not outright dishonest about what his privately held opinions are.

Hearing what is said about the team from those who leave is useful. They are no longer under presure to toe whatever company line there might be.

It also may not be 100% truthful, since there might be axes to grind or butt-hurt feelings, but it's still a useful vantage point from which to attempt to triangulate the truth.~G

What Lloyd said was only a politely tuned down version of what former Broncos like Stink and Alfred Williams are saying on the radio every day. :coffee:

I don't know what, aside from blind faith, makes the Teboners think that "of course" Tebow will learn to be a pocket-passing QB.

But, there's little point trying to debate the matter. Either he will or he won't and we'll get to see a lot over the next 10 weeks. Hopefully it will be blindingly clear so that everybody will see he's either great or a bust.

Then there won't be this division and argument next season. I don't think it will be a help if the team goes into 2012 with a newly drafted QB for example, and Tebow still on the roster.

lgenf
10-28-2011, 02:46 PM
Either he will or he won't and we'll get to see a lot over the next 10 weeks. Hopefully it will be blindingly clear so that everybody will see he's either great or a bust.



your own quote


so you give T2 10 weeks to show if he is great or a bust?

how many HOF QB's got 10 weeks?

I don't know if T2 will be a HOF QB or not, but that timeline you state is shorter then almost any other QB in history gets or got

just cutting out all the other words from your post clears up the view, he has 10 games against some really tough opponents, with a Team that is crap to PROVE he is great

this team is missing MANY MANY parts

Hell, look at that game against Miami, they were in FG range TWICE and they were missed, that game should have been 6-6 at half time and may have been a different game in the 2nd half if Prater hits both of those in the first half

Cugel
10-28-2011, 07:02 PM
your own quote


so you give T2 10 weeks to show if he is great or a bust?

how many HOF QB's got 10 weeks?

I don't know if T2 will be a HOF QB or not, but that timeline you state is shorter then almost any other QB in history gets or got

just cutting out all the other words from your post clears up the view, he has 10 games against some really tough opponents, with a Team that is crap to PROVE he is great

this team is missing MANY MANY parts

Hell, look at that game against Miami, they were in FG range TWICE and they were missed, that game should have been 6-6 at half time and may have been a different game in the 2nd half if Prater hits both of those in the first half

What are you arguing with ME for? Do you think I'm secretly John Elway trolling on these boards? :laugh:

I'm saying the Broncos management -- EFX will decide over the next ten games whether they think Tebow is going to be their franchise QB moving forward or whether they need to go out and draft a QB in 2012.

It's going to be one way or the other. John Lynch just said exactly the same thing 2 minutes ago on 104.3 the Fan, which I'm listening to as I type these words.

Not really controversial. Tebow gets a 10 game job interview. If he fails then I don't know what will happen to him. He'll still be under contract and they might still keep him. But, using a #1 pick on a QB is rather a vote of no confidence in Tebow.

So, I believe he would be traded in that scenario.

I Eat Staples
10-28-2011, 08:04 PM
Lloyd usually tells the truth as he see's it. Id rather hear what he has to say vs Champ Bailey.

Are you saying you don't think Slowick is a good DC? :eek:

bcbronc
10-29-2011, 03:07 AM
Timing is the result of chemistry, result of allowing your QB to get into a passing rythm. Tebwo proved that despite the fact that his Timing needs the work you get from training camp and practicing with your starters, he still managed to make fantastic timing throws in the victory against Miami. This is on the coaching staff for sure.

Mechanics also play a huge roll in timing. It's impossible to develop consistent timing when you have inconsistent mechanics.

Joel
10-29-2011, 04:01 AM
In the regular season, Tebow has taken six sacks in six quarters. Orton took nine in 18. But Tebow's passer rating is nearly 20 points higher.

http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_19211825#ixzz1c9v1v9wU
Another great example why the PRS should count sacks. That's like saying, "Knowshon Moreno is tackled for a loss far more often than Willis McGahee, but has a higher rushing average counting only positive yardage." Obviously if we ignore one of the most frequent complaints against Tebow he looks better. As routinely as Orton did his armadillo impression every time he faced the HINT of a pass rush, it's kinda frightening to realize Tebow has been sacked twice as often (again, SO FAR; Orton has played three times as many quarters this year.)

Lloyds comments don't seem terribly critical: Asked what he thought the biggest issue, he stated what he thought it to be, but saying, "only time will tell," is hardly savaging the guy.

Juriga72
10-29-2011, 07:42 AM
I just have to laugh here.... ALL the Orton fan bois screamed that "Kyle didnt get the chance to get HIS timimg down with the recievers in the offseason. NOW... in TWO weeks ( less really) Tebow is supposed to be up to NFL speed with little if any work during TC with the starters. Don't worry about the fact that the "Great Kyle Orton" led us to ONE halftime lead this year....nah... dont worry bois

REALLY????

IF we win this week, it will be for the first time since Oct 11th-19th 2008 we win TWO games in a row...

THEN what will you douche's bitch about?

jhildebrand
10-29-2011, 10:28 AM
Not sure when these comments were made. I would hope Lloyd, if asked since being traded to the Lou, would pass on the question. Just no class talking about a team you are no longer part of. The same team and organization that allowed him to resurrect his career. :coffee:

That aside, keep talking. This crap fuels Tebow.

Tebow W post Lloyd

Lloyd and McDaniels in st louis L.

Let the wins talk

Juriga72
10-29-2011, 11:56 AM
Again folks... BEFORE Llyod was traded.. he was BITCHING about the lack of passes being thrown HIS way this year. So now... B-Llyod is the end all on talking about "Chemistry"

un freaking real

DenBronx
10-29-2011, 12:58 PM
I don't see any problems with Llyod telling the truth. Tebow does need alot of work. It's almost painfull to watch the longest windup in NFL history and he throws such a loopy/rainbow of a ball. That has disaster written all over it. I would really like to see him tighten up the actual throw and not so much his footwork. In fact, would even be ok with him taking extra long to get it out if the ball didnt look like a rainbow everytime.

But ones thing for sure, Tebow never gives up and that is something you can not teach. I don't think anyone in the NFL right now has as much heart as Tim. Give the kid the rest of the year to play and the whole offseason to practice and I know he will only get better. EFX, need to hire or bring in a veteran to sit behind him and help him through it.

And yes, Tebow didn't get hardly any experience with the #1s and that's just a shame.