PDA

View Full Version : Robert Griffin III



TXBRONC
10-26-2011, 10:44 PM
I was listening to Vic and Gary this morning on The Ticket and Vic said that the Broncos are interest in Robert Griffin III. He's the starting quarterback for Baylor University. What do you all think of him?

chazoe60
10-26-2011, 10:57 PM
How do Vic and Gary know this?


To answer your question RG3 is the real deal IMO. Smart, accurate, athletic, and is a good kid. I believe his parents are both officers in the Army. He has already graduated or will by the end of this year, can't remember which.

I heard an interview with him and he really is an impressive young man.

Now, for the stuff that makes him questionable. He runs a spread. Spends most of his time in the shotgun. The highlight tapes I've watched make me think he's good at the long ball and the short stuff but his intermediate game needs work. I think that's true of a great deal of college QBs though. I don't know how pro ready he'll be right away.

WARHORSE
10-26-2011, 11:07 PM
Im not a believer.............unless he proves me wrong.


I just dont see teams presenting him with problems.

His running threat is so dynamic, teams fall all over themselves trying to defend it.....leaving wide open WRs downfield.

Arm is questionable.


Can he read a defense....?


Im not sold, he seems more like a Joe Webb to me.


I reserve the right to change my mind.

Im more impressed with Russell Wilson.

Lancane
10-26-2011, 11:19 PM
I was listening to Vic and Gary this morning on The Ticket and Vic said that the Broncos are interest in Robert Griffin III. He's the starting quarterback for Baylor University. What do you all think of him?

Nick will be happy...:lol:

Seriously, the fact that Vic and Gary stated this means that the Broncos are not sold on Tebow. Griffith's value has skyrocketed this season and is now considered a Top 20 pick, so unless he flounders the rest of the season or goes down with injury he'll cost a first round pick to acquire.

As for his skill set and intangibles, he's a spread quarterback but has the ability to play in the pocket, he's mobile and quick footed. Has a solid release and a big arm, in fact I stated this on the draft threads, but he's only behind Jones and Lindley in arm strength, he's got a cannon arm and decent overall accuracy. If I was going to compare him to someone in the pro's, I'd say that he reminds me of Randall Cunningham.

The Tebowites won't like hearing this, because he is more mobile then Jones, Barkley, Luck, Foles, Cousins or Tannehill (the more pocket present quarterbacks). So in that retrospect, it would be like replacing Tebow with a similar QB only a right handed quarterback with a better arm.

underrated29
10-26-2011, 11:32 PM
So our coaches are revealing who they are interested in the draft to some radio guys. The same radio guys who said they were told by the front office that Tebow was number three???

Forgive me for being skeptical. I still say we take a CB first next year

Lancane
10-26-2011, 11:56 PM
So our coaches are revealing who they are interested in the draft to some radio guys. The same radio guys who said they were told by the front office that Tebow was number three???

Forgive me for being skeptical. I still say we take a CB first next year

I would be more doubtful if it was someone else like Williams or Shapiro, but Vic and Gary are close to John Elway and the organization. Probably about as close if not closer then Mike Shanahan and Adam Schefter were.

And I don't see Denver dishing out a first round pick for a cornerback, not in the next draft at least, but I would be a fool to dismiss it as a possibility though.

Lancane
10-27-2011, 12:29 AM
And I'll add one more thing for people to consider of why there is a possibility that this is true. I've continually stated that I believe Denver will draft a quarterback and most likely in the first round, but I doubt that Vic and Gary are tight knit with the Scouting or Draftnik communities, and it was just recently that Griffith was graded as a Top 20 pick, Denver is already most likely out of the Luck race, and more or less going to be below .500 for the season if they're being truthful with themselves, which means that Denver would likely end up in the early to mid teens. Vic and Gary didn't mention Jones or Barkley, both of whom are Top 10 picks, Denver would probably take one of them if they fall in their lap, but to state that Denver is interested in the one quarterback that will most likely be available?

It's something to consider at least.

Dirk
10-27-2011, 05:58 AM
I have a buddy here at work that is extremely high on Griffin. He believes he will be the best QB to come out of this upcoming draft. If he comes out. He is a Junior. I don't know much about him.

Northman
10-27-2011, 06:07 AM
My only problem with RGIII is his record vs better teams. He's something like 2-8 vs ranked teams. But ill piggyback a little on Lan and say that im not sure why Denver would bother getting another QB who is basically in the same mold as Tebow. If Tebow is generally not Fox's type of QB than why would they waste a pick on a player who plays a lot like him? Im sure they are considering every player at the QB position but i HIGHLY doubt they take another QB in the Tebow mold.

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 06:40 AM
How do Vic and Gary know this?


To answer your question RG3 is the real deal IMO. Smart, accurate, athletic, and is a good kid. I believe his parents are both officers in the Army. He has already graduated or will by the end of this year, can't remember which.

I heard an interview with him and he really is an impressive young man.

Now, for the stuff that makes him questionable. He runs a spread. Spends most of his time in the shotgun. The highlight tapes I've watched make me think he's good at the long ball and the short stuff but his intermediate game needs work. I think that's true of a great deal of college QBs though. I don't know how pro ready he'll be right away.

Fwiw Vic said he has spoken with people inside organization.

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 06:57 AM
And I'll add one more thing for people to consider of why there is a possibility that this is true. I've continually stated that I believe Denver will draft a quarterback and most likely in the first round, but I doubt that Vic and Gary are tight knit with the Scouting or Draftnik communities, and it was just recently that Griffith was graded as a Top 20 pick, Denver is already most likely out of the Luck race, and more or less going to be below .500 for the season if they're being truthful with themselves, which means that Denver would likely end up in the early to mid teens. Vic and Gary didn't mention Jones or Barkley, both of whom are Top 10 picks, Denver would probably take one of them if they fall in their lap, but to state that Denver is interested in the one quarterback that will most likely be available?

It's something to consider at least.

I'm sure they have people they talk with at Dove Valley. That's the way Vic was framing it. He said he talked with people inside the organization. Vic did mention Barkley and Jones briefly. Vic said that those two were players of obvious interest.

TT15Superman
10-27-2011, 08:11 AM
My only problem with RGIII is his record vs better teams. He's something like 2-8 vs ranked teams. But ill piggyback a little on Lan and say that im not sure why Denver would bother getting another QB who is basically in the same mold as Tebow. If Tebow is generally not Fox's type of QB than why would they waste a pick on a player who plays a lot like him? Im sure they are considering every player at the QB position but i HIGHLY doubt they take another QB in the Tebow mold.

because if the admin wants Tebow and builds an offensive scheme around him, then they need a backup QB in that mold. I don't think it matters what Fox wants. He was brought in to shore up the defense ... Offense, not so much.

BigDaddyBronco
10-27-2011, 08:24 AM
Well if RGIII is the same type of player as Tebow then they can mold an offense around that type of player and see which one pans out (if any). I haven't watched RGIII more than a couple of games, but he seems like a pretty accurate passer. After 5 games or so, he had more TD's than incompletions. But he plays in a spread and it is college, so I don't think that necessarily translates to him being an accurate pro QB.

Well see more during the Senior Bowl, combine, etc.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 08:29 AM
I really like RGIII. I also like Russell Wilson though. War made a good comparison to Wilson on a another board. Brees is a pretty good comparison.

RGIII is a guy who really impresses me though. Bright. Uber athletic. Great arm. Hard worker.

BroncoStud
10-27-2011, 08:48 AM
I was saying this weeks ago and some of you were very opposed to Griffin III. The fact of the matter is that he makes Baylor a threat to win every week. He makes every player on his team better. He has a big arm and is a pocket passer that can run.

I'm not at all surprised to hear that Elway is interested.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 09:06 AM
I was saying this weeks ago and some of you were very opposed to Griffin III. The fact of the matter is that he makes Baylor a threat to win every week. He makes every player on his team better. He has a big arm and is a pocket passer that can run.

I'm not at all surprised to hear that Elway is interested.

it wasn't me giving you a hard time. I've liked him since last year.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 09:11 AM
People try to come up with excuses not to like Griffin. He runs...he plays in a spread...he doesnt do well against tough competition...it's always something.

Here's the interesting part. Jesus Luck passes for 70% in a bad conference and he is greatness. Griffin does it in a good conference and no one sees. A guy like Cutler was revered as an amazing talent around here, even after losing repeatedly at Vandy...but Griffin and his Baylor Bears lose games and suddenly, he cant win big games.

Baylor without Griffin is maybe a 2-3 win team. Even when they play ranked teams, he still performs admirably and is rarely the blame. The rest of his team just sucks.

If he were an inch or two taller, I'd be even higher on him, but if he were the guy we drafted...I'd be happy.

BigDaddyBronco
10-27-2011, 09:20 AM
People try to come up with excuses not to like Griffin. He runs...he plays in a spread...he doesnt do well against tough competition...it's always something.

Here's the interesting part. Jesus Luck passes for 70% in a bad conference and he is greatness. Griffin does it in a good conference and no one sees. A guy like Cutler was revered as an amazing talent around here, even after losing repeatedly at Vandy...but Griffin and his Baylor Bears lose games and suddenly, he cant win big games.

Baylor without Griffin is maybe a 2-3 win team. Even when they play ranked teams, he still performs admirably and is rarely the blame. The rest of his team just sucks.

If he were an inch or two taller, I'd be even higher on him, but if he were the guy we drafted...I'd be happy.

He is listed at 6-2", which means he is probably 6-1". At least he is 220 and will not get killed on the field like Moore, who I also really like.

I guess my main delimma with most of these spread QB's, is how well will they transition to a pro-style offense, play under center, etc. How will his accuracy translate to the pros, can he pick up the mechanics quickly, etc. I think they can judge where a guy is and what he needs to improve on, but judging if he can improve on it is much harder. I would have thought that Tebow would have been much further along in his development, but some guys just don't pick it up as quickly (or at all).

Northman
10-27-2011, 09:20 AM
People try to come up with excuses not to like Griffin.

Not excuses, just a different point of view that doesnt mesh with yours. Bottom line though, no QB is guaranteed coming out of college whether it be Andrew Luck or RGIII. I dont believe in the hype surrounding him. So what?

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 09:29 AM
because if the admin wants Tebow and builds an offensive scheme around him, then they need a backup QB in that mold. I don't think it matters what Fox wants. He was brought in to shore up the defense ... Offense, not so much.

This guy starting to garner 1st round pick status. If he gets drafted by the Broncos in the first round that's not good news for Tebow.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 09:36 AM
Not excuses, just a different point of view that doesnt mesh with yours. Bottom line though, no QB is guaranteed coming out of college whether it be Andrew Luck or RGIII. I dont believe in the hype surrounding him. So what?

Allow me to rephrase...


People continually create double standards when comparing players.

BroncoJoe
10-27-2011, 09:38 AM
The term "double standard" is king around here.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 10:12 AM
The term "double standard" is king around here.

Yeah...I guess I forgot where I was for a moment

Ravage!!!
10-27-2011, 10:20 AM
Allow me to rephrase...


People continually create double standards when comparing players.

Thats because you a thing against Luck because of the media hype that surrounds him, so you are more critical of everything. People can judge a QB on how he plays without looking at the stats. THis "he doesn't play in a tough conference" thing is SOOOOO overplayed. How many QBs that have come from the SEC have completely FAILED in the NFL?

I don't look at RGIII and see a QB I would want on the team, despite his stats. I'm not looking at stats, I'm looking at the play itself.

Thats not being "double standard".. thats HAVING a standard. If you want to compare completion % and stats as to how you grade out your likes/dislikes of a QB...great... more power to you. But that doesn't mean its a double standard.

You just don't like that Andrew Luck is getting the high praises because your friend says that the comparisons to Manning and Elway are just bogus.....which is reallly really funny.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 10:43 AM
Thats because you a thing against Luck because of the media hype that surrounds him, so you are more critical of everything. People can judge a QB on how he plays without looking at the stats. THis "he doesn't play in a tough conference" thing is SOOOOO overplayed. How many QBs that have come from the SEC have completely FAILED in the NFL?

I don't look at RGIII and see a QB I would want on the team, despite his stats. I'm not looking at stats, I'm looking at the play itself.

Thats not being "double standard".. thats HAVING a standard. If you want to compare completion % and stats as to how you grade out your likes/dislikes of a QB...great... more power to you. But that doesn't mean its a double standard.

You just don't like that Andrew Luck is getting the high praises because your friend says that the comparisons to Manning and Elway are just bogus.....which is reallly really funny.

How the hell did you get all of that out of anything I said? Look around...I can guarantee you'll find posts where I've said Luck was the best QB and best player in this draft. How does that translate into dislike for him? DO I think he's over-hyped? Hell yes. So do many people...so what?!

But when someone glorifies Luck for completing 70% of his passes in a fairly weak conference and then turns around scoffs at Griffin having a higher completion percentage in a better conference...guess what...that's the definition of a double standard.

People like who they like for various reasons and that's fine. All I've done is stated Luck was the best QB...stated that he is over-hyped...stated that a friend of mine in the business made a comment...stated that Griffin is a solid player...and recognized the obvious double standards here...

...and yet somehow that gets twisted into pissing on Luck and relying on stats to form an opinion. Not sure how, but if that's how you percieve it and if it really blows sand into your ****...than I whole-heartedly apologize.

RebelRocker
10-27-2011, 11:08 AM
IF RGIII played in a "pro style offense", he would be EFX's ideal QB.

He's everything Elway wants in his QBOTF.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:20 AM
Not impressed. I dont think he has played very many strong schools and he is just another dual threat QB like Tebow.

How the hell would they know who the broncos are interested in?

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:22 AM
People try to come up with excuses not to like Griffin. He runs...he plays in a spread...he doesnt do well against tough competition...it's always something.

Here's the interesting part. Jesus Luck passes for 70% in a bad conference and he is greatness. Griffin does it in a good conference and no one sees. A guy like Cutler was revered as an amazing talent around here, even after losing repeatedly at Vandy...but Griffin and his Baylor Bears lose games and suddenly, he cant win big games.

Baylor without Griffin is maybe a 2-3 win team. Even when they play ranked teams, he still performs admirably and is rarely the blame. The rest of his team just sucks.

If he were an inch or two taller, I'd be even higher on him, but if he were the guy we drafted...I'd be happy.

Luck in bad conference my ass, Pac12 is no bad conference. Who has baylor played what was worth anything? Kansas State and Texas A&M and lost both of them.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:23 AM
IF RGIII played in a "pro style offense", he would be EFX's ideal QB.

He's everything Elway wants in his QBOTF.

So you say.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 11:23 AM
Not impressed. I dont think he has played very many strong schools and he is just another dual threat QB like Tebow.

How the hell would they know who the broncos are interested in?

I'll pose the question again at the risk of being accused of bashing Luck. But just out of curiosity...


....how many "tough" schools has Luck faced? Even better...how many schools has a Landry Jones faced that Griffin hasnt?

Another question...how do we know he isnt another dual threat QB like Cam Newton?


AGAIN...I'm not promoting or doubting one player or another...but comments like this just dont make sense to me.

Traveler
10-27-2011, 11:30 AM
because if the admin wants Tebow and builds an offensive scheme around him, then they need a backup QB in that mold. I don't think it matters what Fox wants. He was brought in to shore up the defense ... Offense, not so much.


Good point. Look at the problem Indy is having right now. Know ing Manning was a stud, they were negligent in not developing and decent QB behind him that could run the same system if Payton was injured.

Only makes sense to have backup QB's with similar traits as the starter.

Only drawback here being we still don't know for sure if Tebow is in their long term plans.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 11:30 AM
Luck in bad conference my ass, Pac12 is no bad conference. Who has baylor played what was worth anything? Kansas State and Texas A&M and lost both of them.

And yet...look at how he performed in each of those games AND against TCU. Not just the numbers (which are impressive), but the actual games. The guy has no surrounding talent on the team.

Now I'll play devil's advocate and I'll ask how many "tough" games Luck has played this season.

I'll take it a step further. What happens if Barkley lights it up and Luck is unimpressive this weekend against each other?

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:31 AM
I'll pose the question again at the risk of being accused of bashing Luck. But just out of curiosity...


....how many "tough" schools has Luck faced? Even better...how many schools has a Landry Jones faced that Griffin hasnt?

Another question...how do we know he isnt another dual threat QB like Cam Newton?


AGAIN...I'm not promoting or doubting one player or another...but comments like this just dont make sense to me.

Arizona and Washington, both were ranked when they played Standford. THey also played other PAc12 schools and Duke. Not saying baylors conference is weak, they have not played too many of their conference teams yet. Wait until they play Oklahoma and whatnot.

Baylor has played Rice, TCU, Iowa State and Stephen F. Austin. TCU is nothing without their old QB, Iowa State is not very good which I can saw about teams Luck has played like San Diego and UCLA. Both Rice and Stephen F. Austin are horrid. Between TCU, Rice, and Stephen F. Austin where where RGIII got his highest ratings.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:33 AM
And yet...look at how he performed in each of those games AND against TCU. Not just the numbers (which are impressive), but the actual games. The guy has no surrounding talent on the team.

Now I'll play devil's advocate and I'll ask how many "tough" games Luck has played this season.

I'll take it a step further. What happens if Barkley lights it up and Luck is unimpressive this weekend against each other?

I doubt that. I am not a Barkley fan at all, nor a USC fan but Luck stands out by calling his own plays at the line (like Manning) and he has incredible decision making. USC is tough, Arizona is good, Washington is good, and Oregon.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:34 AM
Good point. Look at the problem Indy is having right now. Know ing Manning was a stud, they were negligent in not developing and decent QB behind him that could run the same system if Payton was injured.

Only makes sense to have backup QB's with similar traits as the starter.

Only drawback here being we still don't know for sure if Tebow is in their long term plans.

And since they are not sure about tebow why draft someone in his mold if they want the Luck kind of passer?

If tebow does not pan out by end of year I hope he gets traded and we draft a top Qb and sign a Vet.

slim
10-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Arizona is 2-5 (I think). They are not a good team.

Baylor has played the tougher schedule so far. I don't think that is really debatable.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Why is this topic in the Broncos section and not the draft area along with the other RGIII topic?

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:36 AM
Arizona is 2-5 (I think). They are not a good team.

Baylor has played the tougher schedule so far. I don't think that is really debatable.

Arizona was ranked and they are better then 2-5 with Foles (play better then their record) but their defense is sooooo bad.

Edit: Arizona also lost to 3 Top 10 ranked teams and a goood USC team. Their down fall was the Oregon State game. If you want to see a good up and coming Qb watch Oregon State QB. True Frosh who beat out a senior to start. 2-3 year starting senior.

Northman
10-27-2011, 11:42 AM
because if the admin wants Tebow and builds an offensive scheme around him, then they need a backup QB in that mold. I don't think it matters what Fox wants. He was brought in to shore up the defense ... Offense, not so much.

Your kidding yourself if you think Fox doesnt have a say in it. Fox is the one coaching the team. He's the one who's ass is on the line so in the end he will want players that he is more comfortable with. Tebow isnt the type of QB that Fox generally likes to use so it wouldnt make sense to draft a guy like RGIII. I mean shit, if we are talking strictly about both Tebow and RGIII i can tell you now that RGIII is the better overall passer and already has more to offer out of the gate than Tim does. But at the end of the day i believe Fox wants a QB who can sit in the pocket and pass the ball effectively.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:44 AM
Your kidding yourself if you think Fox doesnt have a say in it. Fox is the one coaching the team. He's the one who's ass is on the line so in the end he will want players that he is more comfortable with. Tebow isnt the type of QB that Fox generally likes to use so it wouldnt make sense to draft a guy like RGIII. I mean shit, if we are talking strictly about both Tebow and RGIII i can tell you now that RGIII is the better overall passer and already has more to offer out of the gate than Tim does. But at the end of the day i believe Fox wants a QB who can sit in the pocket and pass the ball effectively.

I tried to say this about Fox but I was told he is just the coach and will coach whoever he is given.

I dont remember who said that but I think Fox will have say on who he wants and will have influence in that way because he knows the kind of player that will work best in his system.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 11:46 AM
Arizona was ranked and they are better then 2-5 with Foles (play better then their record) but their defense is sooooo bad.

Edit: Arizona also lost to 3 Top 10 ranked teams and a goood USC team. Their down fall was the Oregon State game. If you want to see a good up and coming Qb watch Oregon State QB. True Frosh who beat out a senior to start. 2-3 year starting senior.

Enter the double standard...


Baylor has played 3 (at the time) ranked schools and everyone on the team outside of Griffin is mediocre at best,

So...all this is an excuse for Arizona, but not Baylor?

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 11:47 AM
Does Fox have an offensive system? I guess I missed something

Northman
10-27-2011, 11:47 AM
I tried to say this about Fox but I was told he is just the coach and will coach whoever he is given.

I dont remember who said that but I think Fox will have say on who he wants and will have influence in that way because he knows the kind of player that will work best in his system.

If that was truly the case not only would (I) as the coach not coach the team but i would have zero faith that this organization knows what its doing. Simply putting a "puppet" in place is completely moronic but i highly doubt our FO is that incompetent. Ive seen that type of ownership before in Oakland and it doesnt work. Let the coach do the coaching and get the the players that he see's fits his mold.

BigDaddyBronco
10-27-2011, 11:51 AM
Good point. Look at the problem Indy is having right now. Know ing Manning was a stud, they were negligent in not developing and decent QB behind him that could run the same system if Payton was injured.

Only makes sense to have backup QB's with similar traits as the starter.

Only drawback here being we still don't know for sure if Tebow is in their long term plans.

Maybe Tebow is the back up..... :D

TT15Superman
10-27-2011, 11:51 AM
Your kidding yourself if you think Fox doesnt have a say in it. Fox is the one coaching the team. He's the one who's ass is on the line so in the end he will want players that he is more comfortable with. Tebow isnt the type of QB that Fox generally likes to use so it wouldnt make sense to draft a guy like RGIII. I mean shit, if we are talking strictly about both Tebow and RGIII i can tell you now that RGIII is the better overall passer and already has more to offer out of the gate than Tim does. But at the end of the day i believe Fox wants a QB who can sit in the pocket and pass the ball effectively.What will Fox do if FO drafts RGIII? Is he going to say, "No?"

Obviously, if Fox and FO cannot agree then one of them has to go. Who do you think that will be? A sub .500 coach? Personally, if Tebow continues to show that he is a winner and a cash cow, FO/Bowlen may consider that more important than Fox and they will part ways and develop an offense around Tebow/RGIII.


This guy starting to garner 1st round pick status. If he gets drafted by the Broncos in the first round that's not good news for Tebow.Tebow was a 1st rounder also. Let them shoot it out. If Tebow wins, great. If RGIII wins, great. If RGIII cannot win big games, TT15 is there to clean up his mess regardless of who looks better in "practice".

In the end, BOTH will need more development to be NFL QBs. They both may succeed. They both may fail. No guarantees in life...except death and taxes.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2011, 11:53 AM
My son has the Baylor game this Saturday - guess I will need to focus on more than just the "white hat" :lol:

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:55 AM
Enter the double standard...


Baylor has played 3 (at the time) ranked schools and everyone on the team outside of Griffin is mediocre at best,

So...all this is an excuse for Arizona, but not Baylor?

Where are you putting crap in my mouth, double standard?

I never said that. I just said Arizona is a better school then their record shows. They also have a good QB who is starting to get a lot of attention. So you are saying none of the Baylor players besides RGIII will be drafted? Good to know that.

Actually they have only played 2 ranked teams, who were ranked at the time. Great think about stats is that they dont back up BS. Look at ESPN and click on Baylor college football. Their clubhouse page has their schedule and it also shows the ranking the teams had when they played them and the ranking of teams they are going to play. They only played 2 teams that were ranking. Kansas State is now ranked though and TCU is not.

BigDaddyBronco
10-27-2011, 11:57 AM
Arizona and Washington, both were ranked when they played Standford. THey also played other PAc12 schools and Duke. Not saying baylors conference is weak, they have not played too many of their conference teams yet. Wait until they play Oklahoma and whatnot.

Baylor has played Rice, TCU, Iowa State and Stephen F. Austin. TCU is nothing without their old QB, Iowa State is not very good which I can saw about teams Luck has played like San Diego and UCLA. Both Rice and Stephen F. Austin are horrid. Between TCU, Rice, and Stephen F. Austin where where RGIII got his highest ratings.

Uh, TCU has pretty much the same defense it used to beat Wisconsin in their bowl game last year. I watched that game, RGIII shredded them.

TCU's issues this year are due to not having Andy Dalton and they are still a top 40 team. We'll see after they play BYU and Boise St. where they are, but they are not a bad team.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 11:57 AM
What will Fox do if FO drafts RGIII? Is he going to say, "No?"

Obviously, if Fox and FO cannot agree then one of them has to go. Who do you think that will be? A sub .500 coach? Personally, if Tebow continues to show that he is a winner and a cash cow, FO/Bowlen may consider that more important than Fox and they will part ways and develop an offense around Tebow/RGIII.

Tebow was a 1st rounder also. Let them shoot it out. If Tebow wins, great. If RGIII wins, great. If RGIII cannot win big games, TT15 is there to clean up his mess regardless of who looks better in "practice".

In the end, BOTH will need more development to be NFL QBs. They both may succeed. They both may fail. No guarantees in life...except death and taxes.

Fox will be working with elway and xanders when making the draft board. He will not be blind sided. If RGIII is drafted it is because Fox wanted him too.

TT15Superman
10-27-2011, 12:00 PM
Fox will be working with elway and xanders when making the draft board. He will not be blind sided. If RGIII is drafted it is because Fox wanted him too.Maybe, but Elway has final say. And if Xanders votes with Elway, it's 2-1.

Read Woody's article on Tebow. It was a 1:1:1 split on Tebow. 1=good; 1=bad; 1=whatever. Who got the "final" say?

BigDaddyBronco
10-27-2011, 12:02 PM
Maybe, but Elway has final say. And if Xanders votes with Elway, it's 2-1.

Read Woody's article on Tebow. It was a 1:1:1 split on Tebow. 1=good; 1=bad; 1=whatever. Who got the "final" say?

Well we all know that Xanders was the "whatever" vote. I'm sure he'll suck up to Elway when it comes to the final determination.

Northman
10-27-2011, 12:03 PM
What will Fox do if FO drafts RGIII? Is he going to say, "No?"

Of course he can say no. Doesnt mean he will get his wish but im pretty certain that Elway will take Fox's suggestions into consideration.


Obviously, if Fox and FO cannot agree then one of them has to go. Who do you think that will be? A sub .500 coach?

I will make you a bet right now that Fox will not be fired after just one season.


Personally, if Tebow continues to show that he is a winner and a cash cow, FO/Bowlen may consider that more important than Fox and they will part ways and develop an offense around Tebow/RGIII.


If Tim can actually become a passer than yes, he will stay and Fox can use him. If not, they will not keep Tebow just so he can run around all day. Sorry, the NFL is built for passers bub.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 12:04 PM
Maybe, but Elway has final say. And if Xanders votes with Elway, it's 2-1.

Read Woody's article on Tebow. It was a 1:1:1 split on Tebow. 1=good; 1=bad; 1=whatever. Who got the "final" say?

How would Woody know what went on behind doors for Tebow to start. How does he know someone said no and 1 said whatever? All speculation that is all crap. Speculation means nothing.

slim
10-27-2011, 12:06 PM
How would Woody know what went on behind doors for Tebow to start. How does he know someone said no and 1 said whatever? All speculation that is all crap. Speculation means nothing.

Because he talks to the FO and coaches behind closed doors. :listen:

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 12:07 PM
Because he talks to the FO and coaches behind closed doors. :listen:

Oh ok thanks. I didn't know that. :salute:

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 12:15 PM
Tebow was a 1st rounder also. Let them shoot it out. If Tebow wins, great. If RGIII wins, great. If RGIII cannot win big games, TT15 is there to clean up his mess regardless of who looks better in "practice".

In the end, BOTH will need more development to be NFL QBs. They both may succeed. They both may fail. No guarantees in life...except death and taxes.

That happens in the college ranks but not in the pros. One of them of the two would be traded away. I also don't know of any pro team that has ever kept two project quarterbacks one to be the starter and the other to be the back up.

Traveler
10-27-2011, 12:21 PM
And since they are not sure about tebow why draft someone in his mold if they want the Luck kind of passer?

If tebow does not pan out by end of year I hope he gets traded and we draft a top Qb and sign a Vet.

My assumption is since they won't change the offense to to fit Tebow's skill set. If they were to get Griffin, he requires less "retraining" since he has better all round skills as a QB. Both as a pocket passer from under center and in the shotgun.

Traveler
10-27-2011, 12:25 PM
Maybe Tebow is the back up..... :D

Stop!;)

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 12:32 PM
My assumption is since they won't change the offense to to fit Tebow's skill set. If they were to get Griffin, he requires less "retraining" since he has better all round skills as a QB. Both as a pocket passer from under center and in the shotgun.

Just like Leaf, or Jawalrus?

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 12:44 PM
Just like Leaf, or Jawalrus?

Before I assume anything...are you comparing Griffin to Leaf and Russell?

Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2011, 12:51 PM
That happens in the college ranks but not in the pros. One of them of the two would be traded away. I also don't know of any pro team that has ever kept two project quarterbacks one to be the starter and the other to be the back up.

Plus - paying both 1st round money

TT15Superman
10-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Plus - paying both 1st round moneyAll reports indicate that Tebow's been paid all of his first round money already. He's working on the incentive-based part of his contract now.

Next year, he'll be paid his contract minimum or league minimum, I believe. This makes him a TD machine at low cost. If he is traded, all the upfront $$$ are wasted.

As for 2 first round projects...
Brady Quinn + Tim Tebow are on the roster...have been for 2 years.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 01:33 PM
Well im firmly off the foles bandwagon. As i posted in another thread foles looks all world when playing from 2 scores back....the problem is his numbers drop comsiderably in close games. And he's 2-5 this year. He also throws off his back foot a ton

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 01:45 PM
Well im firmly off the foles bandwagon. As i posted in another thread foles looks all world when playing from 2 scores back....the problem is his numbers drop comsiderably in close games. And he's 2-5 this year. He also throws off his back foot a ton

Well...if you watch film on Luck...that's the one are of his game that needs the most work as well

BroncoStud
10-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Foles sucks. If he goes first round I will be pretty amazing. In my opinion the 2 best are Luck and Barkely. Barkely doesn't have the high ceiling that Luck does but he's very solid in most areas.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 02:26 PM
Foles sucks. If he goes first round I will be pretty amazing. In my opinion the 2 best are Luck and Barkely. Barkely doesn't have the high ceiling that Luck does but he's very solid in most areas.

I think the reason a lot of people arent high on Barkley is because he isnt media hyped and isnt flashy. He just goes out, does his job and that's that. Pretty much why I say he may be the best guy for a Fox offense.

If Luck didnt have all the media hype...he'd be viewed the same way. Wierd how that happens.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 02:35 PM
I think the reason a lot of people arent high on Barkley is because he isnt media hyped and isnt flashy. He just goes out, does his job and that's that. Pretty much why I say he may be the best guy for a Fox offense.

If Luck didnt have all the media hype...he'd be viewed the same way. Wierd how that happens.

But he is such a pretty boy and reminds me of Quinn.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 02:36 PM
But he is such a pretty boy and reminds me of Quinn.

Fair enough...but he is the dropback pocket guy we so desperately want as well.

slim
10-27-2011, 02:38 PM
I have watched a fair amount of USC games and Barkley just doesn't do anything for me.

I won't pretend like I know how to evaluate QB talent, but I would expect a top 10 QB to always be the best player on the field. I don't think he sucks, but I have never watched a USC game and said to myself "Barkley was the player on the field today".

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 02:40 PM
Fair enough...but he is the dropback pocket guy we so desperately want as well.

I think Pete Carroll will throw it all at him in the 1st round too. Like Bowel might push for EFX to look more in to Jones. I have learned never look past alum of universities to play favoritism.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 02:50 PM
I have watched a fair amount of USC games and Barkley just doesn't do anything for me.

I won't pretend like I know how to evaluate QB talent, but I would expect a top 10 QB to always be the best player on the field. I don't think he sucks, but I have never watched a USC game and said to myself "Barkley was the player on the field today".

Fair, but despite that...he gets it done. Which is why I think he fits a Fox system so well. How many times did we ever think Delhomme got it done?

Fox likes a guy that sits back, does his job and doesnt try to be a hero.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 02:52 PM
Fair, but despite that...he gets it done. Which is why I think he fits a Fox system so well. How many times did we ever think Delhomme got it done?

Fox likes a guy that sits back, does his job and doesnt try to be a hero.

that is the problem Fox's offenses are not great and they need a hero, someone to step up and be the man. Whether it is a RB or a QB.

slim
10-27-2011, 02:54 PM
Fair, but despite that...he gets it done. Which is why I think he fits a Fox system so well. How many times did we ever think Delhomme got it done?

Fox likes a guy that sits back, does his job and doesnt try to be a hero.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I wouldn't mind drafting him, as long as it's not with a top 10 pick.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 02:54 PM
that is the problem Fox's offenses are not great and they need a hero, someone to step up and be the man. Whether it is a RB or a QB.

I agree...and honestly, I think Barkley has that ability.

I dont know. When I watch Barkley, I see a guy that leads his team, does his job well and has the respect on the field. I like him and I think he'll be a good QB in the NFL.

TT15Superman
10-27-2011, 02:56 PM
I have watched a fair amount of USC games and Barkley just doesn't do anything for me.

I won't pretend like I know how to evaluate QB talent, but I would expect a top 10 QB to always be the best player on the field. I don't think he sucks, but I have never watched a USC game and said to myself "Barkley was the player on the field today".Cecil Lammey considers Barkley to have a Chad Pennington type arm. Don't know as I have not watched him play. Will watch the USC-Stanford game this weekend.

Let's see if Luck can "call his own" plays against a real team. All the analysts creaming their pants when he called his own plays against CU...pleeeez.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-27-2011, 02:58 PM
Cecil Lammey considers Barkley to have a Chad Pennington type arm. Don't know as I have not watched him play. Will watch the USC-Stanford game this weekend.

Let's see if Luck can "call his own" plays against a real team. All the analysts creaming their pants when he called his own plays against CU...pleeeez.

LOL, CU barely beat CSU, which lost to Boise by over 50. :laugh:

Personally, I do think Luck is the real deal. He's like Cutler with a better football IQ.

Barkley, not so much. I think his lack of arm strength will get exposed at the next level. I'm not saying he can't play at the next level, but I personally wouldn't spend a 1st rounder on him unless I had one or two to spare.

slim
10-27-2011, 03:00 PM
Cecil Lammey considers Barkley to have a Chad Pennington type arm. Don't know as I have not watched him play. Will watch the USC-Stanford game this weekend.

Let's see if Luck can "call his own" plays against a real team. All the analysts creaming their pants when he called his own plays against CU...pleeeez.

He wasn't very good against ASU this year. I may be letting that single performance color my opinion some (since it's fresh in my mind), but he didn't play well.

I am looking forward to the game this weekend, as well. Should be fun to watch.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 03:17 PM
He wasn't very good against ASU this year. I may be letting that single performance color my opinion some (since it's fresh in my mind), but he didn't play well.

I am looking forward to the game this weekend, as well. Should be fun to watch.

Yeah, the ASU game was bad, but I guess I dont expect every game to be great.

This weekend will be a fun game for sure. I expect Stanford to win, but it could be a fun QB challenge

slim
10-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Yeah, the ASU game was bad, but I guess I dont expect every game to be great.

This weekend will be a fun game for sure. I expect Stanford to win, but it could be a fun QB challenge

How do you think RGIII will do against OKST this weekend?

I wasn't planning on watching that game, but after reading this thread I think I will.

elsid13
10-27-2011, 03:53 PM
Well im firmly off the foles bandwagon. As i posted in another thread foles looks all world when playing from 2 scores back....the problem is his numbers drop comsiderably in close games. And he's 2-5 this year. He also throws off his back foot a ton


Foles isn't the reason that AU is 2-5 this season, that blames lays soles on at the feet of their defense. Foles is solid high 2nd rounder, and he doesn't throw off is back foot a ton.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 03:57 PM
Foles isn't the reason that AU is 2-5 this season, that blames lays soles on at the feet of their defense. Foles is solid high 2nd rounder, and he doesn't throw off is back foot a ton.

you're right...all that film I watched of him throwing off his back foot last year was an optical illusion. I also was mistaken when I looked for the cannon everyone's been hyping and only saw underthrown deep balls (due of course to the optical illusion of throwing off his back foot).

the guy is a "top tier qb" leading his team to a 2-5 record in a soft PAC 12. again just look at his numbers in close games. Their horrendous. Reminds me of a certain qb who just got benched for his lack of clutch play.

Nick
10-27-2011, 04:01 PM
I am crossing my fingers for RG3.

I would like to see Tebow do well and improve his passing BUT i just don't see it. If he some how makes a big turn around, Great. Better for the team to address other needs.

RG3 is the real deal. While they do the spread, He has the pocket presence and all intangibles you want out of a QB and should run a pro style offense with out a problem.

This guy is money on a team not that great. I am excited to see what happens this weekend but honestly think they are going to get killed... There team is no where close as complete.

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 04:08 PM
How do you think RGIII will do against OKST this weekend?

I wasn't planning on watching that game, but after reading this thread I think I will.

I think Baylor will lose the game, but Griffin will be expected to play from behind all game. The OSU defense isnt elite, so I think he can get 30 points on the board. I expect him to have a solid game and lose.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-27-2011, 04:31 PM
I think Baylor will lose the game, but Griffin will be expected to play from behind all game. The OSU defense isnt elite, so I think he can get 30 points on the board. I expect him to have a solid game and lose.

I'm thinkin' OSU 52 Baylor 47

:laugh:

CoachChaz
10-27-2011, 04:45 PM
I'm thinkin' OSU 52 Baylor 47

:laugh:

Could be something similar to the A&M / OSU game.

elsid13
10-27-2011, 05:33 PM
you're right...all that film I watched of him throwing off his back foot last year was an optical illusion. I also was mistaken when I looked for the cannon everyone's been hyping and only saw underthrown deep balls (due of course to the optical illusion of throwing off his back foot).

the guy is a "top tier qb" leading his team to a 2-5 record in a soft PAC 12. again just look at his numbers in close games. Their horrendous. Reminds me of a certain qb who just got benched for his lack of clutch play.

If are basing your review on Foles based upon last season you are missing the fact the kid played on dislocated knee cap that prevented him from stepping into throws and hurting his mobility, and if watched him this season you would understand that team's record is not Foles fault but lays at the feet of defense that lacking the play makers it had in the past.

And BTW unless you have coach's tape, you are watching film.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 05:48 PM
If are basing your review on Foles based upon last season you are missing the fact the kid played on dislocated knee cap that prevented him from stepping into throws and hurting his mobility, and if watched him this season you would understand that team's record is not Foles fault but lays at the feet of defense that lacking the play makers it had in the past.

And BTW unless you have coach's tape, you are watching film.

If you watch several "highlight reels" and then watch games and still see the same thing then I guess it doesn't really matter what kind of "film" you're watching. I get it that you really have a crush on Foles. But you've done nothing to counteract the stats I posted which show his terrible performance in close games.

Nick
10-27-2011, 05:50 PM
People try to come up with excuses not to like Griffin. He runs...he plays in a spread...he doesnt do well against tough competition...it's always something.

Here's the interesting part. Jesus Luck passes for 70% in a bad conference and he is greatness. Griffin does it in a good conference and no one sees. A guy like Cutler was revered as an amazing talent around here, even after losing repeatedly at Vandy...but Griffin and his Baylor Bears lose games and suddenly, he cant win big games.

Baylor without Griffin is maybe a 2-3 win team. Even when they play ranked teams, he still performs admirably and is rarely the blame. The rest of his team just sucks.

If he were an inch or two taller, I'd be even higher on him, but if he were the guy we drafted...I'd be happy.

Just for record. I was very high on Cutler and also high on RG3 and do not recall to many people back on other board high on Cutler and were using same debate on wins and losses... Minus the spread offense debate but statistically speaking is drastic for QB's.

I can tell he will not have a big problem adapting to pro style offense but is something difficult to debate over because most QB's do not adapt well... BUT most of those other QB's can't compare to how gifted RG3 is.

he goes through progressions extremely well.

Nick
10-27-2011, 06:03 PM
I am planning on watching Fole's previous games here in near future. I am pretty intrigued to what I see.

You can find the games online that just jump to the next play automatically.

When I watched him play in some games I seen him wanting to lock on somone to long at times and then other plays he skims through progressions great and nails down his 3rd or 4th on a slant.

My biggest knock on him is accuracy, I am not a fan if his thrown ball. Haven't seen him enough to make a complete argument though.

I havn't seen his footwork enough about throwing off back foot or not but can tell you he is no Cutler / Stanford etc. that should or could be throwing off his back foot.

elsid13
10-27-2011, 06:07 PM
If you watch several "highlight reels" and then watch games and still see the same thing then I guess it doesn't really matter what kind of "film" you're watching. I get it that you really have a crush on Foles. But you've done nothing to counteract the stats I posted which show his terrible performance in close games.


What game in particular are do think that he looked bad in? Stats rarely tell story about the player or what really going on during the game. So which game or games do you want to talk about that you think shows he not a NFL potential QB?

And highlights and TV broadcast are not "watching film" because they are designed to show you the total field, there is reason that coaches film is shoot from the endzone at high level.

BTW I don't have crush on Foles, I think he is 2nd round QB that shows some strong promise and reminds me a lot Matt Schaub coming of UVA.

RebelRocker
10-27-2011, 06:13 PM
I think Pete Carroll will throw it all at him in the 1st round too. Like Bowel might push for EFX to look more in to Jones. I have learned never look past alum of universities to play favoritism.

You have a good point, Phidelt. Supposedly, Bowlen loved Bradford coming out of college two years ago and there was speculation that Bowlen tried to get OU's HC Stoops to replace Shanahan as our HC. Certainly, Bowlen's ties to Oklahoma will lead to us scouting Jones heavily.

I'm not a huge fan of Jones. To me, he should be putting up bigger numbers with the talent and system he runs at OU. I may be wrong on that, but he just seems like a big underachiever, to me.

I prefer Barkley if we had the choice between the two.


He's a 3 year starter
produces in a pro style offense
is younger than Jones.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 06:17 PM
What game in particular are do think that he looked bad in? Stats rarely tell story about the player or what really going on during the game. So which game or games do you want to talk about that you think shows he not a NFL potential QB?

And highlights and TV broadcast are not "watching film" because they are designed to show you the total field, there is reason that coaches film is shoot from the endzone at high level.

BTW I don't have crush on Foles, I think he is 2nd round QB that shows some strong promise and reminds me a lot Matt Schaub coming of UVA.

The Oklahoma State game in particular. I think his stats are inflated which is typical for a spread qb and honestly his accuracy in that game was awful considering completion pct this season. I may be overstating his deficiencies but he just doesn't strike me as a great prospect. If I look at all of the top ten qb prospects this year, he'd definitely be towards the bottom of the pile.

Jsteve01
10-27-2011, 06:19 PM
RGIII on the other hand is someone I'd love to draft. Bigger arm than Foles, much better athlete and gets big wins with less talent surrounding him than Foles.

Lancane
10-27-2011, 07:06 PM
I still think that Landry Jones will be the main target for the Broncos come the draft, I think he's the ideal pocket passing quarterback IMHO. Not to mention the ties that he has to this organization already, through his coach and university.

chazoe60
10-27-2011, 07:09 PM
I still think that Landry Jones will be the main target for the Broncos come the draft, I think he's the ideal pocket passing quarterback IMHO. Not to mention the ties that he has to this organization already, through his coach and university.

How mobile is he Lan? I don't want another statue back there. Orton was painful to watch because of his poor mobility.

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 07:13 PM
I still think that Landry Jones will be the main target for the Broncos come the draft, I think he's the ideal pocket passing quarterback IMHO. Not to mention the ties that he has to this organization already, through his coach and university.

We could just as easily be out of the running for Jones as well as Luck.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Lancane
10-27-2011, 07:14 PM
How mobile is he Lan? I don't want another statue back there. Orton was painful to watch because of his poor mobility.

He's not a scrambler, he's very much a pocket orientated quarterback, but I have seen him move around to escape pressure... Nothing like Tebow or Griffith, but I wouldn't say he is stiff like Orton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q_w0LJNm3E

Lancane
10-27-2011, 07:20 PM
We could just as easily be out of the running for Jones as well as Luck.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

We're currently still a Top Ten pick, somewhere between 7 and 10, that's still viable. Philadelphia and Carolina are both better teams then us, we have a tough schedule no matter what the 'Kool-aid Drinkers' believe. I still see us having a pretty high draft pick once it's all said and done, so I wouldn't count out anybody till the season's done (Except Luck)!

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 07:22 PM
He's not a scrambler, he's very much a pocket orientated quarterback, but I have seen him move around to escape pressure... Nothing like Tebow or Griffith, but I wouldn't say he is stiff like Orton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q_w0LJNm3E

I like mobile quarterbacks but if he not but still slide away from pressure that's fine with me.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

TXBRONC
10-27-2011, 07:25 PM
We're currently still a Top Ten pick, somewhere between 7 and 10, that's still viable. Philadelphia and Carolina are both better teams then us, we have a tough schedule no matter what the 'Kool-aid Drinkers' believe. I still see us having a pretty high draft pick once it's all said and done, so I wouldn't count out anybody till the season's done (Except Luck)!

I we're still in lower half of the top ten atm but I bet Jones goes in the top five.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Northman
10-27-2011, 07:30 PM
I have watched a fair amount of USC games and Barkley just doesn't do anything for me.

I won't pretend like I know how to evaluate QB talent, but I would expect a top 10 QB to always be the best player on the field. I don't think he sucks, but I have never watched a USC game and said to myself "Barkley was the player on the field today".

Im not sold either, ive seen a couple of games this year and he struggles in the redzone which is a bad sign.

Lancane
10-27-2011, 07:34 PM
I we're still in lower half of the top ten atm but I bet Jones goes in the top five.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

We'll see, at this point it's all pure speculation, and if all four junior quarterbacks enter the draft, we could see an ever shifting board, some teams may decide they want Griffin or Barkley more, others Jones.

Northman
10-27-2011, 07:39 PM
How mobile is he Lan? I don't want another statue back there. Orton was painful to watch because of his poor mobility.

Uh, you dont have to have a mobile QB to be successful. It isnt like guys like Manning, Brady, or Brees are running around for first downs all the time. Just need a QB who can go through progressions and get the ball out quick with good accuracy.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 07:42 PM
We're currently still a Top Ten pick, somewhere between 7 and 10, that's still viable. Philadelphia and Carolina are both better teams then us, we have a tough schedule no matter what the 'Kool-aid Drinkers' believe. I still see us having a pretty high draft pick once it's all said and done, so I wouldn't count out anybody till the season's done (Except Luck)!

I really dont see any teams left though that will blow us out. I think they could all go one way or another but not few in our favor.

Lancane
10-27-2011, 07:48 PM
Landry Jones IMHO is the best pocket capable quarterback in the draft behind Andrew Luck. Griffith and Barkley are both big two different extremes, one is a big armed, accurate passer with above average game management ability, the other is a big armed, accurate scrambler, who lacks a lot of tangibles that you want in a pro-style quarterback.

Lancane
10-27-2011, 07:57 PM
I really dont see any teams left though that will blow us out. I think they could all go one way or another but not few in our favor.

We barely beat Miami, that's says plenty to me, especially when you look at our schedule and realize that only one team remaining on our schedule is a below .500 team, Minnesota. This is the 'Kool-aid Effect', fans want the team to win and believe they can, no matter who they play, but reality is harsh.

I don't see Denver sweeping the Chiefs, I don't see Denver beating the Raiders in Oakland, I don't see Denver sliding past Buffalo nor New England. Chicago & Minnesota might be the most two winnable games on the schedule, and neither will be easy. Most teams we face know how to stop a Erhardt-Perkins offense, after all some of them are better at running such an offense or have coached against such offenses more then most.

NightTerror218
10-27-2011, 08:00 PM
We barely beat Miami, that's says plenty to me, especially when you look at our schedule and realize that only one team remaining on our schedule is a below .500 team, Minnesota. This is the 'Kool-aid Effect', fans want the team to win and believe they can, no matter who they play, but reality is harsh.

I don't see Denver sweeping the Chiefs, I don't see Denver beating the Raiders in Oakland, I don't see Denver sliding past Buffalo nor New England. Chicago & Minnesota might be the most two winnable games on the schedule, and neither will be easy. Most teams we face know how to stop a Erhardt-Perkins offense, after all some of them are better at running such an offense or have coached against such offenses more then most.


The basis of my opinion were the first 3 games we played. We were blown out by GB like most other teams. We lost by 3 to the Raiders, wont by 3 to Cincy, and lost by 3 to the Titans. We have been involved every game and they all game down to the wire. I am basing my opinion on our defense holding teams to under 20. I think our defense will continue to keep us in the games.

Lancane
10-27-2011, 08:12 PM
The basis of my opinion were the first 3 games we played. We were blown out by GB like most other teams. We lost by 3 to the Raiders, wont by 3 to Cincy, and lost by 3 to the Titans. We have been involved every game and they all game down to the wire. I am basing my opinion on our defense holding teams to under 20. I think our defense will continue to keep us in the games.

But our offense is our crux, and Tebow is showing his deficiencies. Our defense isn't a world beater, and I've long said that they're solid for a 'Bend Don't Break' defense, but such defenses only strive with a solid offense. Denver's best running back is out, we've traded our biggest receiving threat (which I fully approved of) because Tebow needs to prove himself along with the young receiver corps. Denver's got, and while the receivers look solid...Tebow struggles to find them in the passing game and it's very evident.

Our defense can not do it all, and there is a big difference between the teams we played, an unhealthy Chargers and Bengals unit, A Tennessee team striving to find their identity and one of the worst teams in the NFL that we nearly got shut out by and probably the most high powered offensive juggernaut in the league and the teams remaining on our schedule. Hell, the Chiefs looked to be in the 'Suck for Luck' category and are a .500 club now, Oakland is giving better teams then us fits, while Chicago seems to never say die, we'll be facing a hard stretch in November against several teams looking for a playoff spot.

NightTerror218
10-28-2011, 11:20 AM
But our offense is our crux, and Tebow is showing his deficiencies. Our defense isn't a world beater, and I've long said that they're solid for a 'Bend Don't Break' defense, but such defenses only strive with a solid offense. Denver's best running back is out, we've traded our biggest receiving threat (which I fully approved of) because Tebow needs to prove himself along with the young receiver corps. Denver's got, and while the receivers look solid...Tebow struggles to find them in the passing game and it's very evident.

Our defense can not do it all, and there is a big difference between the teams we played, an unhealthy Chargers and Bengals unit, A Tennessee team striving to find their identity and one of the worst teams in the NFL that we nearly got shut out by and probably the most high powered offensive juggernaut in the league and the teams remaining on our schedule. Hell, the Chiefs looked to be in the 'Suck for Luck' category and are a .500 club now, Oakland is giving better teams then us fits, while Chicago seems to never say die, we'll be facing a hard stretch in November against several teams looking for a playoff spot.

I think the offense will get better as season goes on. There are 2 WR, QB, 2 OL all within 2nd year. I think the passing game will get better as they work together to get timing down. I am really hoping that was just a really bad game for Tebow and it was all in his head. The 4th quarter proved to me he can do it but to be our QB moving past this season he has to do it in all 4 quarters. We are very close to a .500 given a field goal here and there. Detroit had barely won against Minni and Dallas. They have lost 2 straight. I think they are overrated. I think we have a good chance on Sunday to take them down at home.

Jsteve01
10-28-2011, 11:38 AM
Lan i dont agree at all that Barkley possesses a big arm. Totally reminds me of Claussen minus the crappy attitude. HE'S a decent athlete with an avg arm and good accuracy. Of all the top prospects he has the lowest ceiling.

Griffin or Jones would be my only picks in the first if we miss on luck

jlarsiii
10-28-2011, 11:41 AM
I think the offense will get better as season goes on. There are 2 WR, QB, 2 OL all within 2nd year. I think the passing game will get better as they work together to get timing down. I am really hoping that was just a really bad game for Tebow and it was all in his head. The 4th quarter proved to me he can do it but to be our QB moving past this season he has to do it in all 4 quarters. We are very close to a .500 given a field goal here and there. Detroit had barely won against Minni and Dallas. They have lost 2 straight. I think they are overrated. I think we have a good chance on Sunday to take them down at home.

We have a chance this Sunday but that largely depends on which version of Tebow we get. Do we get the version from the first 55 minutes of the Miami game, or the one from the last 5 minutes? If it is the former then we don't stand much of a chance against Detroit.

NightTerror218
10-28-2011, 11:48 AM
We have a chance this Sunday but that largely depends on which version of Tebow we get. Do we get the version from the first 55 minutes of the Miami game, or the one from the last 5 minutes? If it is the former then we don't stand much of a chance against Detroit.

It also depends on what QB Detroit is playing too. They may think we are easy and not play Stafford to let him heal.

jlarsiii
10-28-2011, 12:50 PM
It also depends on what QB Detroit is playing too. They may think we are easy and not play Stafford to let him heal.

True. I did just read on nfl.com that Stafford practiced today with the 1st string so all signs point to him playing.

Edit: link http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8238d1cb/article/lions-stafford-practices-with-first-team-again-likely-to-play?module=HP11_headline_stack

NightTerror218
10-28-2011, 12:59 PM
True. I did just read on nfl.com that Stafford practiced today with the 1st string so all signs point to him playing.

Edit: link http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8238d1cb/article/lions-stafford-practices-with-first-team-again-likely-to-play?module=HP11_headline_stack

Doomer is practicing today for us too. He needs to step it up and meet Stafford.

CoachChaz
10-28-2011, 01:28 PM
Lan i dont agree at all that Barkley possesses a big arm. Totally reminds me of Claussen minus the crappy attitude. HE'S a decent athlete with an avg arm and good accuracy. Of all the top prospects he has the lowest ceiling.

Griffin or Jones would be my only picks in the first if we miss on luck

Tom Brady? Drew Brees?

Just curious

Lancane
10-28-2011, 05:21 PM
Lan i dont agree at all that Barkley possesses a big arm. Totally reminds me of Claussen minus the crappy attitude. HE'S a decent athlete with an avg arm and good accuracy. Of all the top prospects he has the lowest ceiling.

Griffin or Jones would be my only picks in the first if we miss on luck

J, did you know that Barkley threw at the quarterback challenge (before college) not long back and had the highest accuracy score not to mention also matched some of the biggest arms (entering the collegiate ranks) distance? And that includes Landry Jones.

Barkley is a more accurate version of Mark Sanchez with greater upside IMHO. Is he my top prospect in the draft? No. Is he one of my top five? Yes.

Right now, anyone of those five would be better then Tebow in this league of that I am sold.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-29-2011, 05:19 PM
Could be something similar to the A&M / OSU game.

Well, looks like we were half right. :laugh:

Northman
10-29-2011, 05:25 PM
Ummm, yeeeeeeeeeeea.

TXBRONC
10-29-2011, 07:53 PM
We barely beat Miami, that's says plenty to me, especially when you look at our schedule and realize that only one team remaining on our schedule is a below .500 team, Minnesota. This is the 'Kool-aid Effect', fans want the team to win and believe they can, no matter who they play, but reality is harsh.

I don't see Denver sweeping the Chiefs, I don't see Denver beating the Raiders in Oakland, I don't see Denver sliding past Buffalo nor New England. Chicago & Minnesota might be the most two winnable games on the schedule, and neither will be easy. Most teams we face know how to stop a Erhardt-Perkins offense, after all some of them are better at running such an offense or have coached against such offenses more then most.

Geez Lan I think there are couple of winnable games remaining on our schedule. I don't think it's likely that we'll will win the division but I think it's possible at least a couple more games.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Lancane
10-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Geez Lan I think there are couple of winnable games remaining on our schedule. I don't think it's likely that we'll will win the division but I think it's possible at least a couple more games.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

TX, I'm not trying to be a downer...and as you well know I've always been more of a realist rather then optimist. We have one below .500 team on our schedule, even though that's likely to change after this weekend, that still means that some of them are capable of winning despite their records.

In all honesty, we'll be lucky to have more then three wins the rest of the season. Could I be wrong? Yes, that is a possibility. But when I look at the teams we've barely beat and the issues that effected them at the time of those games and our own team's issues, the outlook is far less promising.

BroncoStud
10-29-2011, 10:48 PM
RG III sucked today against OSU. Total letdown.

Northman
10-29-2011, 11:27 PM
RGIII was a letdown and Barkley stepped it up.

Lancane
10-29-2011, 11:31 PM
RG III sucked today against OSU. Total letdown.

While Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley put on a quarterback clinic in one of the better games I've seen this season. That was a kickass game!

And though Griffin had an off day BS, he still passed for well over 400 yards, I don't see his draft stock taking a hit, especially considering that he was playing a pretty solid college football program. Weeden I think showed some promise, he keeps playing like that and he'll solidify his draft stock.

Biggest winner of the weekend was Landry Jones with an outstanding 500 yard plus passing performance against Kansas State.

Biggest loser of the weekend was Kirk Cousins with 86 total yards passing, no touchdowns and an interception!

Brock Osweiler, Ryan Tannehill, Tyler Wilson and Case Keenum had pretty good games as well, Brock Osweiler and Tyler Wilson could be two to watch for entering the draft and changing up the order.

Northman
10-29-2011, 11:33 PM
The only problem for RGIII was a lot of his stats were late in the game because they were so far behind early. In the first half his numbers were terrible.

Lancane
10-29-2011, 11:37 PM
The only problem for RGIII was a lot of his stats were late in the game because they were so far behind early. In the first half his numbers were terrible.

I know, but remember the draft is a culmination of games, every quarterback has off days and they'll see that even though it was not a great day, he still threw for over 400 yards.

But, I think that Landry Jones, Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley all sort of proved their meddle today, those three without question are the best three quarterbacks of the current class. If Osweiler or Wilson decided to enter the draft, I think they'd be in serious contention of being the fourth taken over Griffin.

Northman
10-29-2011, 11:38 PM
I know, but remember the draft is a culmination of games, every quarterback has off days and they'll see that even though it was not a great day, he still threw for over 400 yards.

But, I think that Landry Jones, Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley all sort of proved their meddle today, those three without question are the best three quarterbacks of the current class. If Osweiler or Wilson decided to enter the draft, I think they'd be in serious contention of being the fourth taken over Griffin.

Yea, i really like Osweiler myself.

Lancane
10-29-2011, 11:42 PM
Yea, i really like Osweiler myself.

So do I, Osweiler has all the intangibles that you look for in a franchise quarterback and he has that swagger as well.

If Landry Jones and Brock Osweiler both declared, even though I'm high on Jones...I'd have a deep seated hope we took Osweiler instead.

But let's be honest, I'd be happy with Luck, Jones, Barkley, Osweiler, Wilson or Foles at this point!

:lol:

Northman
10-29-2011, 11:43 PM
So do I, Osweiler has all the intangibles that you look for in a franchise quarterback and he has that swagger as well.

If Landry Jones and Brock Osweiler both declared, even though I'm high on Jones...I'd have a deep seated hope we took Osweiler instead.

But let's be honest, I'd be happy with Luck, Jones, Barkley, Osweiler, Wilson or Foles at this point!

:lol:


I think (even though i am pulling for Tebow) any of those guys is a step up from what we have on this team currently.

Lancane
10-29-2011, 11:52 PM
I think (even though i am pulling for Tebow) any of those guys is a step up from what we have on this team currently.

Agreed...

I don't know, I think I would laugh and cry if we passed up on those mentioned and they become franchise capable quarterbacks and Tebow looked no better next season. I would laugh and the ignorance of some, cry at the ignorance of the team and probably both at the same time because we'll still be in need and knowing our current streak of luck, we'd probably get the next Couch or Leaf in 2012.

:tsk:

BroncoStud
10-30-2011, 09:43 AM
So do I, Osweiler has all the intangibles that you look for in a franchise quarterback and he has that swagger as well.

If Landry Jones and Brock Osweiler both declared, even though I'm high on Jones...I'd have a deep seated hope we took Osweiler instead.

But let's be honest, I'd be happy with Luck, Jones, Barkley, Osweiler, Wilson or Foles at this point!

:lol:

Jones sure looked great against T. Tech last week... Guy has no heart, he's a robot. Orton with a better arm. That's it and that's all. If we get Landry Jones I will be sick to my stomach.

I've watched him play LIVE for 2 years and he's as automated as they come, lacks complete leadership, and has very little mobility. Thanks but no thanks.

I would take RG III, Tanneyhill, and many others ahead of Jones. Especially if it is going to take a high first to get him. He's nowhere even close to being worth that.

BroncoAV06
10-30-2011, 10:57 AM
What is impressive about Foles?

Weeden is a better John Beck at 28 yrs old.

I am very interested to see how RGIII is looked at with what Cam Newton has done. Can spin it, uses his legs but can win with his arm.

Nick
10-30-2011, 03:34 PM
I don't know what game you all watched. He did not have a total off day and mad some things happen. I dont think RG3 stocked dropped at all. He had a streak of dropped passes 3 times with ball right on money. Including 5 straight passes that were dropped.

There is only so much you can do, his team sucks. Those CB's on Oklahoma looked like men playing against pee wee football.

Northman
10-30-2011, 03:40 PM
He's human Nick, he had a bad game. Especially early. It happens.

RebelRocker
10-30-2011, 03:57 PM
Yea, i really like Osweiler myself.

If Osweiler declares, watch for EFX to be putting in the hours watching this kid. Not only does he have the intangibles and some great tangible abilities, he also has connections to the FO. His college coach is family friends with the Elway's.

Nick
10-30-2011, 04:07 PM
He's human Nick, he had a bad game. Especially early. It happens.

you obviously didnt see game.

BroncoStud
10-30-2011, 04:10 PM
you obviously didnt see game.

I watched the entire game. RG III didn't do ANYTHING until the game was out of hand. Bad throws, inaccurate throws, poor decision-making, etc, etc. He had a lot of junk yardage but that's about it.

elsid13
10-31-2011, 06:14 PM
If Osweiler declares, watch for EFX to be putting in the hours watching this kid. Not only does he have the intangibles and some great tangible abilities, he also has connections to the FO. His college coach is family friends with the Elway's.

He is also 6-8 and that red flag for NFL FO and scouts. Remember when Mallet was telling everyone that he was't 6'7 but 6'5. I am sure that he will be drafted but later then you expect.

Lancane
10-31-2011, 06:24 PM
He is also 6-8 and that red flag for NFL FO and scouts. Remember when Mallet was telling everyone that he was't 6'7 but 6'5. I am sure that he will be drafted but later then you expect.

No he won't Elsid, he's probably more like 6'7 and he's close to 240lbs. he's a big quarterback and he's made all the throws, has a good arm with decent accuracy, which means that to them he'll be harder to tackle compared to someone who is 6'1 and 190lbs. like Kellen Moore and his passes are harder to bat down. Not to mention that he can play more like someone who is more traditional in size, that right there would be enough to intrigue most teams, he's a bigger Roethlisberger.

elsid13
10-31-2011, 08:17 PM
No he won't Elsid, he's probably more like 6'7 and he's close to 240lbs. he's a big quarterback and he's made all the throws, has a good arm with decent accuracy, which means that to them he'll be harder to tackle compared to someone who is 6'1 and 190lbs. like Kellen Moore and his passes are harder to bat down. Not to mention that he can play more like someone who is more traditional in size, that right there would be enough to intrigue most teams, he's a bigger Roethlisberger.

Anything over 6'5 and you are going to start here the name Dan McGwire thrown around.

Interesting article that was written away ago but still hold true:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_10_229/ai_n12935001/

They called Ed Jones "Too Tall," but at 6-9, really he wasn't. It was a joke really, kind of like calling Donald Trump "Too Rich," or Pamela Anderson "Too Shapely."

That isn't to say players can't be too tall, however. Take it from a guy who could use elevator shoes: Too much height scares some talent evaluators more than too little height. And it should. Jones got away with being too tall because he had athleticism that was rare for a man his size.

Dan McGwire, now he was too tall. The brother of home run king Mark McGwire stood 6-8. He was a first-round pick of the Seahawks in 1991, but the quarterback played in only 13 games in a five-year NFL career. In addition to being too tall or, more accurately, because of being too tall, McGwire was too stiff to avoid a pass rush and too inaccurate to hit the open man.

There can be Dan McGwires at every position. So some personnel men paid particular attention to the heights of the 332 NFL prospects at the Combine last week in Indianapolis.

"In very simple terms, too much height creates a bigger target," Colts president Bill Polian says. "Generally speaking, tall people tend not to be real good knee benders and real quick in their movements. The axiom I've always followed is beware of too tall rather than beware of too short."

One NFC team prescribes maximum heights for each position. If a prospect is taller than the second tallest productive player in the NFL at that position, he gets a red flag. The thinking is the tallest productive player in the NFL probably is an aberration. That isn't to say the prospect can't be an aberration, like "Too Tall" Jones. But the team would have to determine that. In this year's draft, there are a handful of prospects who will face extra scrutiny because of their heights.

Brandon Browner, CB, Oregon State, 6-3 1/2. Everyone needs tall corners, right? Well, not this tall. Broncos cornerback Lenny Walls is 6-4, and that's one reason he came into the league as a free agent. "Corners who are cut too high can't turn and run," an AFC personnel director says.

For this reason, a tall corner is more troubling than a tall receiver, such as 6-4 Southern California wideout Mike Williams. Taller receivers usually lack quickness in and out of their cuts, but that skill is not as vital to a receiver as it is to a corner.

Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona State, 6-6. Not every team is leery of tall quarterbacks. "You can't be too tall at quarterback," Polian says. "He has to be able to see over the rush." In fact, the Colts want their passers to be 6-3 or taller, although they make exceptions for special players.

Brandon Jacobs, RB, Southern Illinois, 6-4 1/8. A tall running back probably will have a hard time getting low. He'll give defenders a big area to hit, and he'll likely take a lot of punishment.

Sam Lightbody, OT, Washington State, 6-9. A gangly blocker might have balance issues, and he could play too high to be effective.

Bryce Benekos, P, UTEP, 6-5 1/8. A punter who is too tall takes up too much space to get a punt off, which leaves him vulnerable to blocked kicks.

Lancane
10-31-2011, 08:22 PM
Anything over 6'5 and you are going to start here the name Dan McGwire thrown around.

Interesting article that was written away ago but still hold true:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_10_229/ai_n12935001/

They called Ed Jones "Too Tall," but at 6-9, really he wasn't. It was a joke really, kind of like calling Donald Trump "Too Rich," or Pamela Anderson "Too Shapely."

That isn't to say players can't be too tall, however. Take it from a guy who could use elevator shoes: Too much height scares some talent evaluators more than too little height. And it should. Jones got away with being too tall because he had athleticism that was rare for a man his size.

Dan McGwire, now he was too tall. The brother of home run king Mark McGwire stood 6-8. He was a first-round pick of the Seahawks in 1991, but the quarterback played in only 13 games in a five-year NFL career. In addition to being too tall or, more accurately, because of being too tall, McGwire was too stiff to avoid a pass rush and too inaccurate to hit the open man.

There can be Dan McGwires at every position. So some personnel men paid particular attention to the heights of the 332 NFL prospects at the Combine last week in Indianapolis.

"In very simple terms, too much height creates a bigger target," Colts president Bill Polian says. "Generally speaking, tall people tend not to be real good knee benders and real quick in their movements. The axiom I've always followed is beware of too tall rather than beware of too short."

One NFC team prescribes maximum heights for each position. If a prospect is taller than the second tallest productive player in the NFL at that position, he gets a red flag. The thinking is the tallest productive player in the NFL probably is an aberration. That isn't to say the prospect can't be an aberration, like "Too Tall" Jones. But the team would have to determine that. In this year's draft, there are a handful of prospects who will face extra scrutiny because of their heights.

Brandon Browner, CB, Oregon State, 6-3 1/2. Everyone needs tall corners, right? Well, not this tall. Broncos cornerback Lenny Walls is 6-4, and that's one reason he came into the league as a free agent. "Corners who are cut too high can't turn and run," an AFC personnel director says.

For this reason, a tall corner is more troubling than a tall receiver, such as 6-4 Southern California wideout Mike Williams. Taller receivers usually lack quickness in and out of their cuts, but that skill is not as vital to a receiver as it is to a corner.

Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona State, 6-6. Not every team is leery of tall quarterbacks. "You can't be too tall at quarterback," Polian says. "He has to be able to see over the rush." In fact, the Colts want their passers to be 6-3 or taller, although they make exceptions for special players.

Brandon Jacobs, RB, Southern Illinois, 6-4 1/8. A tall running back probably will have a hard time getting low. He'll give defenders a big area to hit, and he'll likely take a lot of punishment.

Sam Lightbody, OT, Washington State, 6-9. A gangly blocker might have balance issues, and he could play too high to be effective.

Bryce Benekos, P, UTEP, 6-5 1/8. A punter who is too tall takes up too much space to get a punt off, which leaves him vulnerable to blocked kicks.

Good article, but it doesn't seem to consider those who also succeeded. But a good find none the less, I just don't buy into such things, hell...I remember when they said Shannon Sharpe was too small to play tight end, or when they said Zach Miller wouldn't succeed because his height...so I take it all with a grain of salt.

elsid13
10-31-2011, 08:59 PM
Good article, but it doesn't seem to consider those who also succeeded. But a good find none the less, I just don't buy into such things, hell...I remember when they said Shannon Sharpe was too small to play tight end, or when they said Zach Miller wouldn't succeed because his height...so I take it all with a grain of salt.

There are always outliers, but over time a normal bell curve occurs and better be one standard deviation off the mean if you want to keep your job as scout or GM in the NFL.

Lancane
10-31-2011, 09:04 PM
There are always outliers, but over time a normal bell curve occurs and better be one standard deviation of the mean if want to keep your job as scout or GM in the NFL.

Yeah, but remember Elsid, that the average height for a wide receiver in the 80's was 5-11, the average height of receivers now is 6'2. The average height of offensive tackles in the 90's was 6'3 if you look at the draft prospects for the upcoming draft, the average offensive tackle is 6'6.

TXBRONC
10-31-2011, 09:15 PM
I know, but remember the draft is a culmination of games, every quarterback has off days and they'll see that even though it was not a great day, he still threw for over 400 yards.

But, I think that Landry Jones, Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley all sort of proved their meddle today, those three without question are the best three quarterbacks of the current class. If Osweiler or Wilson decided to enter the draft, I think they'd be in serious contention of being the fourth taken over Griffin.

If Lan is right and we don't win more than one more game this season will probably have good chance of getting Jones or Barkley if EFX does indeed go after a quarterback in this draft.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Lancane
10-31-2011, 09:48 PM
If Lan is right and we don't win more than one more game this season will probably have good chance of getting Jones or Barkley if EFX does indeed go after a quarterback in this draft.

Mobile Post via http://Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Well, we already know a few things, such as that Elway has a morning show with Vic & Gary, they've spilled the proverbial beans that someone within the organization has told them that the Broncos are indeed interested in quarterbacks, that Jones and Barkley were mentioned as well as Griffin. After two games Tebow has looked like a seventh round pick from a supplemental draft. Elway this morning said he saw no improvement and went on and on about the deficiency at the position, even Fox looked disgusted.

There is a high probability that it's true when you think about their lead source of information, and I am sure they hear more juicy tidbits off record that we as the public or not privy to.

Depending on who declares and where we do end up, is more of a question...not if we draft a quarterback, but of course where. If we have a shot at Jones or Barkley, even Wilson, Osweiler or Griffin I don't think Denver hesitates. If they don't nab one of the top prospects, they might go the same route as Arizona or Houston and trade for someone, we know Denver liked Colin Kaepernick, they could look at Stephen McGee from Dallas or even trade for Blaine Gabbert using Tebow, but more likely they'd take either Foles or Tannehill in the second. No matter what, I see Denver making a big move this off-season to fix the quarterback position.

RebelRocker
11-01-2011, 12:31 AM
Well, we already know a few things, such as that Elway has a morning show with Vic & Gary, they've spilled the proverbial beans that someone within the organization has told them that the Broncos are indeed interested in quarterbacks, that Jones and Barkley were mentioned as well as Griffin. After two games Tebow has looked like a seventh round pick from a supplemental draft. Elway this morning said he saw no improvement and went on and on about the deficiency at the position, even Fox looked disgusted.

There is a high probability that it's true when you think about their lead source of information, and I am sure they hear more juicy tidbits off record that we as the public or not privy to.

Depending on who declares and where we do end up, is more of a question...not if we draft a quarterback, but of course where. If we have a shot at Jones or Barkley, even Wilson, Osweiler or Griffin I don't think Denver hesitates. If they don't nab one of the top prospects, they might go the same route as Arizona or Houston and trade for someone, we know Denver liked Colin Kaepernick, they could look at Stephen McGee from Dallas or even trade for Blaine Gabbert using Tebow, but more likely they'd take either Foles or Tannehill in the second. No matter what, I see Denver making a big move this off-season to fix the quarterback position.

I thought about Kaepernick, as well. With Alex Smith playing well in SF and Harbaugh seemingingly having a mancrush over him, they may decide to re-sign Smith, therefore making Kaepernick expendable.

If this scenario happens, here's some of the positives
he'd be a year farther into his development than any other rookie

EFX REALLY liked him and Elway even admitted that they considered taking him at pick #36, but decided that they needed more picks.

Spent a year on the bench and by next off-season, will have a firm grasp of the pro game.

Has a ton of upside.

Will probably come at a reduced price(4th/5th) rather than taking him with a 2nd last year.


I think EFX would rather draft their own QB, though. They have made it clear that they're going to re-build this team through the draft and I assume the QB position will be no different.

Nick
11-01-2011, 02:39 AM
Well, we already know a few things, such as that Elway has a morning show with Vic & Gary, they've spilled the proverbial beans that someone within the organization has told them that the Broncos are indeed interested in quarterbacks, that Jones and Barkley were mentioned as well as Griffin. After two games Tebow has looked like a seventh round pick from a supplemental draft. Elway this morning said he saw no improvement and went on and on about the deficiency at the position, even Fox looked disgusted.

There is a high probability that it's true when you think about their lead source of information, and I am sure they hear more juicy tidbits off record that we as the public or not privy to.

Depending on who declares and where we do end up, is more of a question...not if we draft a quarterback, but of course where. If we have a shot at Jones or Barkley, even Wilson, Osweiler or Griffin I don't think Denver hesitates. If they don't nab one of the top prospects, they might go the same route as Arizona or Houston and trade for someone, we know Denver liked Colin Kaepernick, they could look at Stephen McGee from Dallas or even trade for Blaine Gabbert using Tebow, but more likely they'd take either Foles or Tannehill in the second. No matter what, I see Denver making a big move this off-season to fix the quarterback position.

Big possibility a lot of these kids go back to school for a year.

I think there is a possibility that Tannehill could be a very early pick in 2nd or pull a ponder. Kid is not bad and does have a arm... I know I know... One of his knocks is probably arm strength BUT I seen the kid air it out and think he just needs to understand his arm strength and accuracy on hitting people in stride 20 plus yards away.

His accuracy is not bad and will have a learning curve but views field well and would be a big upgrade for our Broncos.

chazoe60
11-01-2011, 07:14 AM
It's hard to evaluate guys like RG3 and Foles because they come from college teams that aren't very good. They don't get a lot of help. On the other hand, when looking at guys like Jones and Barkley you have to wonder how much better the talent around them makes them look. It's a tricky thing.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 07:54 AM
Big possibility a lot of these kids go back to school for a year.

Why do you believe that?

All those quarterbacks that will be eligible for the draft will be informed by those they surround themselves with, whether it's private trainers, scouts or even agents of the issues in front of them regarding the draft, and they'll make an decision likely based off what they hear from them and after talking to their families.

Now with that said, remember there are 'key' issues that these kids will be made aware of before hand. And I'm also talking about those even with the slightest interest in the draft. They'll be told the hazards of deciding to forgo the draft and fluctuations in draft stock, the unreliability of it. Of the number of teams currently in need for franchise quarterbacks which is of real importance because that can effect the someone's draft stock as much if not more then the programs they associated with or their overall numbers. So they'll be told there is about six or seven teams that have an interest, that the field for the following draft will be slimmer for prospects, and what a bad season could do regarding their draft positioning basically.

Of those who are eligible, I don't see Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley or Robert Griffin returning to school, those three I believe without question declare for the draft. Andrew Luck is already a graduate, Matt Barkley will probably declare because he's seen what a bad season can do to a teammate's draft stock, and Robert Griffin is in a weak program for a big school, it's quite possible that he could have a bad season should he return and nose dive in value. Of the four big names this year, Landry Jones might return to school (because he'll have a shot to be the top pick in 2013 and the football program is one of the best in the country so he might believe his draft stock won't slide). Now, if one or two of the most highly regarded quarterbacks for the draft do in fact return to school, other kids such as Tyler Wilson, Ryan Radcliff, Brock Osweiler, Alex Carder or James Vandenberg could throw themselves into the mix, the most likely of the group would be Wilson though.

Either way, there should be a pretty good draft class, and in my honest opinion...I would not be surprised come the draft, if we're were looking at the Luck, Jones, Griffin, Barkley and Wilson all being first round draft picks.


I think there is a possibility that Tannehill could be a very early pick in 2nd or pull a ponder. Kid is not bad and does have a arm... I know I know... One of his knocks is probably arm strength BUT I seen the kid air it out and think he just needs to understand his arm strength and accuracy on hitting people in stride 20 plus yards away.

His accuracy is not bad and will have a learning curve but views field well and would be a big upgrade for our Broncos.

Nick Foles and Ryan Tannehill have been going back and forth this season as the top two quarterbacks of the second tier, Kirk Cousins has pretty much slid out of contention with the other two. I could see either going to Denver if the class thins out, so we'll have to wait and see.

TXBRONC
11-01-2011, 08:22 AM
I thought about Kaepernick, as well. With Alex Smith playing well in SF and Harbaugh seemingingly having a mancrush over him, they may decide to re-sign Smith, therefore making Kaepernick expendable.

If this scenario happens, here's some of the positives
he'd be a year farther into his development than any other rookie

EFX REALLY liked him and Elway even admitted that they considered taking him at pick #36, but decided that they needed more picks.

Spent a year on the bench and by next off-season, will have a firm grasp of the pro game.

Has a ton of upside.

Will probably come at a reduced price(4th/5th) rather than taking him with a 2nd last year.


I think EFX would rather draft their own QB, though. They have made it clear that they're going to re-build this team through the draft and I assume the QB position will be no different.

I think this is right on the money. I think they will want draft their own.

CoachChaz
11-01-2011, 09:39 AM
Nick Foles and Ryan Tannehill have been going back and forth this season as the top two quarterbacks of the second tier, Kirk Cousins has pretty much slid out of contention with the other two. I could see either going to Denver if the class thins out, so we'll have to wait and see.

Either of the two would be solid 2nd round picks. Problem is...they are both projects. They'll need a year or so to develop to the pro game.

That means you need a vet to keep the ship afloat until they are ready. Who would that be? Another full season or 2 with Tebow? Sign a random vet?

Lancane
11-01-2011, 10:22 AM
Either of the two would be solid 2nd round picks. Problem is...they are both projects. They'll need a year or so to develop to the pro game.

That means you need a vet to keep the ship afloat until they are ready. Who would that be? Another full season or 2 with Tebow? Sign a random vet?

If that happened Chaz, which wholly depends on how the first round plays out, then Denver would more then likely look to add a veteran who can help groom a quarterback not hinder him and has the capability to start. I don't see them continuing with Tebow, no matter the fanfare, I truly believe that once he's yanked from the lineup that he's done in Denver.

Sadly, there isn't a long list of solid veterans like Matt Hasselbeck who is the ideal quarterback to sit someone behind. Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins would be two likely candidates since John Fox is familiar with both, David Carr and Mark Brunell would be on that short list. If for some reason Indianapolis cut ties with Manning, even if he's half the quarterback he once was, I could see them giving him a look, the same with Tony Romo and Dallas.

However, I still believe that Denver will target one of the top prospects, and if they can not get into range to take one that they may decide to look at those in or around the league who might be franchise capable. I've mentioned Blaine Gabbert, I could see Denver trading Tebow to Jacksonville for Gabbert, John Fox could talk Elway into making a trade for Jimmy Clausen, after all Fox was high on Clausen and actually wanted him over Tebow and McCoy. They could also look at Stephen McGee, Ryan Mallet or Caleb Hanie.

silkamilkamonico
11-01-2011, 10:35 AM
If we drafted a project QB and went another year with Tebow, we would most likely end up in a position in the 2012 draft to take the best QB (yet again another QB).

I would gag if we were stuck with Jimmy Clausen. That would be an utter disaster and Denver wouldn't be any better at the QB position if that were the case.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 10:44 AM
If we drafted a project QB and went another year with Tebow, we would most likely end up in a position in the 2012 draft to take the best QB (yet again another QB).

I would gag if we were stuck with Jimmy Clausen. That would be an utter disaster and Denver wouldn't be any better at the QB position if that were the case.

I'm just stating possibilities Silk...and you know how that goes.

There was a rumor back before the trade deadline about Denver trading Brandon Lloyd for Jimmy Clausen, and I for one believe it. John Fox is a huge supporter of Clausen's and felt he was better then both McCoy and Tebow. Fox actually tried to trade up into the first round to acquire Clausen...but I think Carolina wanted more then Lloyd and that's why it fell through.

As to the rest of your post, I pretty much agree...that's why I said, once Tebow is benched, he's done in Denver.

TXBRONC
11-01-2011, 11:03 AM
If that happened Chaz, which wholly depends on how the first round plays out, then Denver would more then likely look to add a veteran who can help groom a quarterback not hinder him and has the capability to start. I don't see them continuing with Tebow, no matter the fanfare, I truly believe that once he's yanked from the lineup that he's done in Denver.

Sadly, there isn't a long list of solid veterans like Matt Hasselbeck who is the ideal quarterback to sit someone behind. Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins would be two likely candidates since John Fox is familiar with both, David Carr and Mark Brunell would be on that short list. If for some reason Indianapolis cut ties with Manning, even if he's half the quarterback he once was, I could see them giving him a look, the same with Tony Romo and Dallas.

However, I still believe that Denver will target one of the top prospects, and if they can not get into range to take one that they may decide to look at those in or around the league who might be franchise capable. I've mentioned Blaine Gabbert, I could see Denver trading Tebow to Jacksonville for Gabbert, John Fox could talk Elway into making a trade for Jimmy Clausen, after all Fox was high on Clausen and actually wanted him over Tebow and McCoy. They could also look at Stephen McGee, Ryan Mallet or Caleb Hanie.

I think Denver is going look for a veteran back up quarterback regardless of how all the stuff plays out.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 11:05 AM
I think Denver is going look for a veteran back up quarterback regardless of how all the stuff plays out.

More then likely, the only real issue is that there are few solid free agent veterans compared to yesteryear in the NFL.

TXBRONC
11-01-2011, 11:07 AM
More then likely, the only real issue is that there are few solid free agent veterans compared to yesteryear in the NFL.

I would look for Fox to pursue Delhomme if he's available.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 11:10 AM
I would look for Fox to pursue Delhomme if he's available.

Delhomme or Collins, but more then likely someone he's familiar with, maybe even Brunell.

silkamilkamonico
11-01-2011, 11:47 AM
If Denver acquired Jimmy Clausen, I would probably hope and pray for 0-16 so both he, and Fox, get shipped out of Denver immediately.

I am already extremely disappointed in Fox.

TXBRONC
11-01-2011, 12:14 PM
I'm just stating possibilities Silk...and you know how that goes.

There was a rumor back before the trade deadline about Denver trading Brandon Lloyd for Jimmy Clausen, and I for one believe it. John Fox is a huge supporter of Clausen's and felt he was better then both McCoy and Tebow. Fox actually tried to trade up into the first round to acquire Clausen...but I think Carolina wanted more then Lloyd and that's why it fell through.

As to the rest of your post, I pretty much agree...that's why I said, once Tebow is benched, he's done in Denver.

I vaguely remember the trade rumors for Clausen but also remember hearing Fox wasn't all that enamoured with him.

Lancane
11-01-2011, 12:18 PM
I vaguely remember the trade rumors for Clausen but also remember hearing Fox wasn't all that enamoured with him.

I don't know where you heard that TX, but that's untrue, Fox was the driving force behind Carolina drafting him. He even admitted that he tried to trade up into the first round to secure him and was extremely glad he was still there when they next had a pick. Unless he was saying it for PR Control...

:confused:

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 01:16 PM
EFX need to step it up in FA and get some big time play makers I am tired of this sitting back and holding on to every dime as all the good play makers leave. We have crap for talent. We have solid back ups at most positions. We have some good starts, and couple great players. Our great players are over shadowed by the lack of talent around them.

If we do not draft a high prospect CB we need to sign a good one. We need to upgrade our front seven to actually have some really good talent rather then decent. I dont see Mays, Williams, Woodyard, Ayers, Thomas being starters for very many other teams. Williams is the best out of the group but he is not a difference maker. These guys are starters for a very talent depleted team. Bunkley is playing like a quality starter for us. Doomer is lost somewhere and is not doing anything this year worth his major contract.

Would love to draft some DL/OL who are instant impact players but that never happens. We need to have some good players as they get better. My frustration is getting at all time high. I am watching our team suck at an epic level. The only bright spot to me is STs. Great kickers. Returners have changed so much but nothing much since the Decker return.

Jsteve01
11-01-2011, 01:18 PM
EFX need to step it up in FA and get some big time play makers I am tired of this sitting back and holding on to every dime as all the good play makers leave. We have crap for talent. We have solid back ups at most positions. We have some good starts, and couple great players. Our great players are over shadowed by the lack of talent around them.

If we do not draft a high prospect CB we need to sign a good one. We need to upgrade our front seven to actually have some really good talent rather then decent. I dont see Mays, Williams, Woodyard, Ayers, Thomas being starters for very many other teams. Williams is the best out of the group but he is not a difference maker. These guys are starters for a very talent depleted team. Bunkley is playing like a quality starter for us. Doomer is lost somewhere and is not doing anything this year worth his major contract.

Would love to draft some DL/OL who are instant impact players but that never happens. We need to have some good players as they get better. My frustration is getting at all time high. I am watching our team suck at an epic level. The only bright spot to me is STs. Great kickers. Returners have changed so much but nothing much since the Decker return.

great teams aren't built in free agency. Not Green Bay, not Pitt, and look at how big name signings have helped the Pats and Eagles. You must draft and groom your own guys. Plain and simple.

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 01:21 PM
great teams aren't built in free agency. Not Green Bay, not Pitt, and look at how big name signings have helped the Pats and Eagles. You must draft and groom your own guys. Plain and simple.

I know they are not. you add depth in FA, you build team in draft. Problem is that most OL/DL take a couple years to become starters. You need someone to fit in there and with some experience.

You use FA to fill gaps that draft did not fill. I am tried of PS players on our teams. We had a great draft this year. We need another one next year and we need some play makers. If we have another great draft and get some FA we could compete in AFC Worst.

Cugel
11-01-2011, 01:41 PM
And I'll add one more thing for people to consider of why there is a possibility that this is true. I've continually stated that I believe Denver will draft a quarterback and most likely in the first round, but I doubt that Vic and Gary are tight knit with the Scouting or Draftnik communities, and it was just recently that Griffith was graded as a Top 20 pick, Denver is already most likely out of the Luck race, and more or less going to be below .500 for the season if they're being truthful with themselves, which means that Denver would likely end up in the early to mid teens. Vic and Gary didn't mention Jones or Barkley, both of whom are Top 10 picks, Denver would probably take one of them if they fall in their lap, but to state that Denver is interested in the one quarterback that will most likely be available?

It's something to consider at least.

Middle teens? :eek:

Is there a crack pipe somewhere in the room there Lancane?

Where are they going to win more than 3 games? They play the Raiders in Oakland who crushed them in Mile High.

Will they go into Oakland and beat the Raiders? I suppose it could happen but don't bet on it. Oakland is better than Miami and that's all they will need to beat the Broncos. Just run Darren McFadden for 180 yards and 3 TDs behind that OL.

Then there's the Chiefs in KC. Can you remember the last time the Broncos went into KC in November or December and came away with a victory? Me neither. Many years where the Broncos were going to the playoffs and the Chiefs were horrible, they STILL beat the Broncos in KC.

Then there's the Jets here on 4 days rest for a Thanksgiving Day beat-down. Following that it's off to the Chargers for another beat-down. By then Brady Quinn should be starting. :coffee:

Then they fly to the Metrodome where the Vikings play much better and now have Christian Ponder being named the rookie of the week for completing 64% of his passes in beating the Panthers. He's got that team turned around and feeling confident.

Then the Bears and Patriots come to town before they fly to Buffalo on December for an old-time Christmas Eve massacre before maybe beating the Chiefs here to ring in New Year's Day, which will not at all make up for an ugly year for all things Broncos related.

That's 4 wins tops. Probably 3. And that will get them a top 5 pick. Not Andrew Luck, and not Barkley who will go 1-2 to the Colts and Miami , but still a decent enough QB. There are quite a few of them this year.

Cugel
11-01-2011, 01:51 PM
If we do not draft a high prospect CB we need to sign a good one. We need to upgrade our front seven to actually have some really good talent rather then decent. I dont see Mays, Williams, Woodyard, Ayers, Thomas being starters for very many other teams. Williams is the best out of the group but he is not a difference maker. These guys are starters for a very talent depleted team. Bunkley is playing like a quality starter for us. Doomer is lost somewhere and is not doing anything this year worth his major contract.


Dumervil had 4 sacks when he last played DE in a 4-3 in 2008. Then they switched to a 3-4 and he had a breakout year to lead the NFL with 17 in 2009.

Then he was hurt and out for a year in 2010. Then he came back and they stuck him back in the 4-3 and he's on pace to have about 4 sacks.

What does that tell you?

Tells me that he's in the wrong system and that they either need to switch to a 3-4 which isn't happening or else trade him to a 3-4 team that can utilize his talent. He has a 6 year $61 million contract with $41 million guaranteed, and his salary this season and next is $14 million !

And you don't pay that kind of money to a guy who gets 4 sacks a year! :coffee:

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Dumervil had 4 sacks when he last played DE in a 4-3 in 2008. Then they switched to a 3-4 and he had a breakout year to lead the NFL with 17 in 2009.

Then he was hurt and out for a year in 2010. Then he came back and they stuck him back in the 4-3 and he's on pace to have about 4 sacks.

What does that tell you?

Tells me that he's in the wrong system and that they either need to switch to a 3-4 which isn't happening or else trade him to a 3-4 team that can utilize his talent. He has a 6 year $61 million contract with $41 million guaranteed, and his salary this season and next is $14 million !

And you don't pay that kind of money to a guy who gets 4 sacks a year! :coffee:

And how about the other years as a DE? 12.5 and 8.5 where are those numbers. And it was 5 not 4.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9712/elvis-dumervil

Superchop 7
11-01-2011, 03:01 PM
I make damn sure Tebow starts every game the rest of the year.

I need this position secured next year.

We need the draft status.

Win-win

silkamilkamonico
11-01-2011, 03:11 PM
And how about the other years as a DE? 12.5 and 8.5 where are those numbers. And it was 5 not 4.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9712/elvis-dumervil

Doom is an utter disappointment. He is completely ineffective this year, and hasn't done anything to help our godforsaken defense.

I don't care if he's still hurt, or injured, or adjusting to the new scheme, he has been absolutely brutal and a complete non-factor since signing his contract last year.

Cugel
11-01-2011, 03:43 PM
And how about the other years as a DE? 12.5 and 8.5 where are those numbers. And it was 5 not 4.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9712/elvis-dumervil

Five and not Four? That's your beef? :laugh:

Think that 5 or 8 sacks is worth $14 million a season?

That's the kind of money you pay a young guy who is the NFL sack leader and is a double digit sack guy every year, not a guy who might get you 4 to 8.

In short he's got more guaranteed money than Jared Allen the sack leader from a few years ago who signed a monster FA deal with the Vikings!
$43 million guaranteed for Dumervil versus $31 million for Allen!



Jared Allen, Vikings: 4/23/2008: Signed a six-year, $73.26 million contract. The deal contains $31 million guaranteed, including a $15.5 million signing bonus, a $4 million second-year "signing" bonus, and a $4 million guaranteed-for-injury roster bonus in the third season. 2011: $8,979,438, 2012: $11,619,850, 2013: $14,280,612, 2014: Free Agent

That's just a HUGE amount of money for them to pay Doom. If they can't put him in a situation where he gets at least 10-11 sacks it's just not worth it. They can get a guy who will get 5-8 sacks for less than 1/2 that much.

Cugel
11-01-2011, 03:49 PM
Doom is an utter disappointment. He is completely ineffective this year, and hasn't done anything to help our godforsaken defense.

I don't care if he's still hurt, or injured, or adjusting to the new scheme, he has been absolutely brutal and a complete non-factor since signing his contract last year.

My point was that he was a guy who is too small by conventional standards to play DE and have HUGE OTs leaning on him the whole game. He tended to wear down. He's been slowed by injury this year and lost last season to injury completely.

But, even ignoring injury it just seems abundantly clear that he thrives in a 3-4 defense and doesn't do as well in a 4-3 where they ask him to play DE.

He's still one of their better players on defense, but at $14+ Million a year he should be an All-Pro.

He's making MORE MONEY THAN MARIO WILLIAMS (who's earning $13.8 million in the last year of his contract)!

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 03:50 PM
Five and not Four? That's your beef? :laugh:

Think that 5 or 8 sacks is worth $14 million a season?

That's the kind of money you pay a young guy who is the NFL sack leader and is a double digit sack guy every year, not a guy who might get you 4 to 8.

In short he's got more guaranteed money than Jared Allen the sack leader from a few years ago who signed a monster FA deal with the Vikings!
$43 million guaranteed for Dumervil versus $31 million for Allen!



That's just a HUGE amount of money for them to pay Doom. If they can't put him in a situation where he gets at least 10-11 sacks it's just not worth it. They can get a guy who will get 5-8 sacks for less than 1/2 that much.

I agree, I had no beef, just had to throw that out. But 8+ sacks a year and he is sort of worth the money. But he had 1 year under 8, and 1 yr injured. He need to get it together to will find himself trade bait before long.

CoachChaz
11-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Said it before...Quentin Coples fixes this problem.

NightTerror218
11-01-2011, 04:53 PM
Said it before...Quentin Coples fixes this problem.

He could. If might be able to get a 1st rounder for Doomer to a 3-4 defense team and then get Coples and Jones :drool:

Lancane
11-01-2011, 05:01 PM
Middle teens? :eek:

Is there a crack pipe somewhere in the room there Lancane?

Where are they going to win more than 3 games? They play the Raiders in Oakland who crushed them in Mile High.

Will they go into Oakland and beat the Raiders? I suppose it could happen but don't bet on it. Oakland is better than Miami and that's all they will need to beat the Broncos. Just run Darren McFadden for 180 yards and 3 TDs behind that OL.

Then there's the Chiefs in KC. Can you remember the last time the Broncos went into KC in November or December and came away with a victory? Me neither. Many years where the Broncos were going to the playoffs and the Chiefs were horrible, they STILL beat the Broncos in KC.

Then there's the Jets here on 4 days rest for a Thanksgiving Day beat-down. Following that it's off to the Chargers for another beat-down. By then Brady Quinn should be starting. :coffee:

Then they fly to the Metrodome where the Vikings play much better and now have Christian Ponder being named the rookie of the week for completing 64% of his passes in beating the Panthers. He's got that team turned around and feeling confident.

Then the Bears and Patriots come to town before they fly to Buffalo on December for an old-time Christmas Eve massacre before maybe beating the Chiefs here to ring in New Year's Day, which will not at all make up for an ugly year for all things Broncos related.

That's 4 wins tops. Probably 3. And that will get them a top 5 pick. Not Andrew Luck, and not Barkley who will go 1-2 to the Colts and Miami , but still a decent enough QB. There are quite a few of them this year.

Bro, that was written a game or two back! :lol:

I don't see us winning shit at the moment... :laugh:

(Edit: A game back, where I thought we might see them do something, but at this point...Denver will be lucky to beat Minnesota)

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 09:22 AM
Mike Klis on Vic and Gary's radio program just said that RGIII's draft stock is on the rise. Klis used the term "skyrocketing."

Lancane
11-02-2011, 09:25 AM
Mike Klis on Vic and Gary's radio program just said that RGIII's draft stock is on the rise. Klis used the term "sky rocketing."

It has skyrocketed. I was talking to an old friend that still works at NDS, he said he wouldn't be surprised if Griffin was a Top Ten pick come draft time.

claymore
11-02-2011, 09:28 AM
My point was that he was a guy who is too small by conventional standards to play DE and have HUGE OTs leaning on him the whole game. He tended to wear down. He's been slowed by injury this year and lost last season to injury completely.

But, even ignoring injury it just seems abundantly clear that he thrives in a 3-4 defense and doesn't do as well in a 4-3 where they ask him to play DE.

He's still one of their better players on defense, but at $14+ Million a year he should be an All-Pro.

He's making MORE MONEY THAN MARIO WILLIAMS (who's earning $13.8 million in the last year of his contract)!

Underpaid Doom was Awesome. Overpaid Doom sucks. We should have traded him instead of Cutler/Marshall/Hillis/Sheffler.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 09:29 AM
It has skyrocketed. I was talking to an old friend that still works at NDS, he said he wouldn't be surprised if Griffin was a Top Ten pick come draft time.

Last Saturday I flipped back and forth from the Baylor vs. OSU and OU vs. KST and right now I still like Jones just a little more than Griffin.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 09:43 AM
Last Saturday I flipped back and forth from the Baylor vs. OSU and OU vs. KST and right now I still like Jones just a little more than Griffin.

Here's my deal. It's the old Elway vs Montana argument (I know I know a little hyperbole).

Put Griffin on Oklahoma with those receivers and he puts up even better numbers. Put Jones on Baylor and I think you'd see the int numbers go way up. Both still good qbs but especially with the state of this franchise, Im leaning Griffin

Lancane
11-02-2011, 09:45 AM
Last Saturday I flipped back and forth from the Baylor vs. OSU and OU vs. KST and right now I still like Jones just a little more than Griffin.

I did the same, and pretty much feel as you do. In my opinion, Jones is the best pro prospect behind Luck. However, I think Griffin and Barkley will also be a solid pro quarterbacks in their own right and I'd be happy with any one of those four in a Broncos uniform.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 09:49 AM
Here's my deal. It's the old Elway vs Montana argument (I know I know a little hyperbole).

Put Griffin on Oklahoma with those receivers and he puts up even better numbers. Put Jones on Baylor and I think you'd see the int numbers go way up. Both still good qbs but especially with the state of this franchise, Im leaning Griffin

I take into consideration the talent level around each quarterback but I just like Jones' game better.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 09:51 AM
It has skyrocketed. I was talking to an old friend that still works at NDS, he said he wouldn't be surprised if Griffin was a Top Ten pick come draft time.

He truly reminds me of McNabb. Similar athletic set, but just not as big. Donovan made the same sort of ascension the year he came out.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 09:53 AM
Said it before...Quentin Coples fixes this problem.

I like Coples a lot as well, but tell me why he's not Bowers without the knee problems. By that I mean is he explosive enough to consistently be a double digit sack guy?

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 09:55 AM
I did the same, and pretty much feel as you do. In my opinion, Jones is the best pro prospect behind Luck. However, I think Griffin and Barkley will also be a solid pro quarterbacks in their own right and I'd be happy with any one of those four in a Broncos uniform.

If Denver decides to draft a quarterback which is starting to look more and more like a given Denver well probably in a position to draft Jones, Barkley, or Griffin. There is still an outside chance they might be able to draft Luck. Another quarterback that's making his way of the chart is Nick Foles.

CoachChaz
11-02-2011, 09:58 AM
I like Coples a lot as well, but tell me why he's not Bowers without the knee problems. By that I mean is he explosive enough to consistently be a double digit sack guy?

I like his size and speed. I think the one thing he lacks is a solid, true go to move. If he can develop one and master it...he can be dominant in the NFL.

Northman
11-02-2011, 09:59 AM
Here's my deal. It's the old Elway vs Montana argument (I know I know a little hyperbole).

Put Griffin on Oklahoma with those receivers and he puts up even better numbers. Put Jones on Baylor and I think you'd see the int numbers go way up. Both still good qbs but especially with the state of this franchise, Im leaning Griffin

Not me.

As we noticed last week when he plays better competition his numbers got worse. Now throw him against better competition on a regular basis and i bet he doesnt fair as well as he does vs subpar opponents.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 10:01 AM
He truly reminds me of McNabb. Similar athletic set, but just not as big. Donovan made the same sort of ascension the year he came out.

Really? He reminds me more of Randall Cunningham, Griffin is smaller then McNabb physically, is as sure footed as Warren Moon and is as mobile as Michael Vick, he has a bigger overall arm then those aforementioned, he's got a cannon.

All in all, when I watch him...it's like watching Randall Cunningham all over again.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 10:04 AM
Really? He reminds me more of Randall Cunningham, Griffin is smaller then McNabb physically, is as sure footed as Warren Moon and is as mobile as Michael Vick, he has a bigger overall arm then those aforementioned, he's got a cannon.

All in all, when I watch him...it's like watching Randall Cunningham all over again.

In Griffin and McNabb are both listed as 6'2" listed weight McNabb is about 20 pounds heavier.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 10:06 AM
Really? He reminds me more of Randall Cunningham, Griffin is smaller then McNabb physically, is as sure footed as Warren Moon and is as mobile as Michael Vick, he has a bigger overall arm then those aforementioned, he's got a cannon.

All in all, when I watch him...it's like watching Randall Cunningham all over again.

Im obviously not as old as you Lan......j/k I think the Cunningham analogy is a good one for sure.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 10:07 AM
Not me.

As we noticed last week when he plays better competition his numbers got worse. Now throw him against better competition on a regular basis and i bet he doesnt fair as well as he does vs subpar opponents.

I understand what you're talking about but look at all the drops his receivers had in the OK State game. He started pressing which accounts for the ints. The sooners line and receivers make him light years better.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 10:07 AM
Not me.

As we noticed last week when he plays better competition his numbers got worse. Now throw him against better competition on a regular basis and i bet he doesnt fair as well as he does vs subpar opponents.

Some of that does has to do with players he's surround with.

MOtorboat
11-02-2011, 10:14 AM
In Griffin and McNabb are both listed as 6'2" listed weight McNabb is about 20 pounds heavier.

McNabb never had Olympic hurdler speed.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 10:14 AM
If Denver decides to draft a quarterback which is starting to look more and more like a given Denver well probably in a position to draft Jones, Barkley, or Griffin. There is still an outside chance they might be able to draft Luck. Another quarterback that's making his way of the chart is Nick Foles.

I think it really depends on who has the first overall pick, if Indianapolis has it and drafts Luck, then I see Miami taking Barkley...however, if Miami gets Luck, then I see Indianapolis taking Jones instead of Barkley. Seattle at this point would pick before Denver and I see them taking either Griffin or Jones over Barkley, Carrol is under a lot of heat for his faithfulness to Southern Cal prospects. It could end up that Denver ends up with Barkley, Jones or Griffin by default and that's not such a bad place to be if your high on all three like I am.

I've mentioned Brock Osweiler, but I've been hearing that he's planning to return to school...but one quarterback that has been sort of mum about the future is Tyler Wilson, if he declares for the draft, then he'll be up there with the with the others. As far as Foles is concerned, he's not a bad prospect, better then some believe but he'll struggle to grasp the pro game and could benefit from sitting a season, but he'll probably not have that luxury here. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Foles, but if Denver decided to do that, I think then they should trade down and acquire as many picks as they can for other needs as well.

MOtorboat
11-02-2011, 10:19 AM
As much as everyone loves these quarterbacks, there is absolutely zero chance that four quarterbacks go in the Top 5.

Indianapolis will not go quarterback unless they are No. 1, or Peyton retires. There's a very good chance Carroll does not go quarterback, after spending significantly on one this year, no matter how bad he is.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 10:36 AM
As much as everyone loves these quarterbacks, there is absolutely zero chance that four quarterbacks go in the Top 5.

Indianapolis will not go quarterback unless they are No. 1, or Peyton retires. There's a very good chance Carroll does not go quarterback, after spending significantly on one this year, no matter how bad he is.

No one said that four will go in the top five. If the draft was today then Seattle would have the 8th overall pick and Denver the 9th. Miami would have the 1st while Indianapolis had the 2nd overall pick and Washington would have the 10th.

1. Miami takes a quarterback period, no matter where they finish, but right now they have the top pick because of statistics.

2. Indianapolis isn't even sure if Manning will return, and what if his injury doesn't fully heal in time or worse he plays and takes a shot and then there in the same position. I think Indianapolis will have to draft a quarterback unless they're 100% sure that Manning can continue unhindered.

3. Carrol is on the hot seat, he's been throwing away money at the quarterback position and getting shit in return, fans are livid that Hasselbeck is gone and doing well while they're left with second hand crap. I think Carrol is forced to take a quarterback and I also think he'll be pressured by management to stay away from USC prospects.

4. Denver I would say is at about a 99% chance of drafting a quarterback, depending on how the others pan out, they'll probably have a couple options by draft time.

5. Washington could be in a precarious position, they'll be hoping to either trade up or that someone falls in their laps, unless there are no options and are forced to wait till the second round to draft someone. But they're in the mix as well.

So I don't see four or five going in the top five, but I could easily see four or five going in the top ten.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 10:45 AM
As much as everyone loves these quarterbacks, there is absolutely zero chance that four quarterbacks go in the Top 5.

Indianapolis will not go quarterback unless they are No. 1, or Peyton retires. There's a very good chance Carroll does not go quarterback, after spending significantly on one this year, no matter how bad he is.

Manning is 34 years old and rehabbing from a major neck injury. I could see them taking a quarterback even if they don't have the overall number one pick in this draft.

MOtorboat
11-02-2011, 10:53 AM
Quarterback is such a big investment, though, that teams get scared off easily. I think Indianapolis is a prime candidate to go second or third round with a quarterback, simply because this injury has proven that they are so thin elsewhere.

I'm not denying that Seattle's two quarterback investments were bad, but I just think they'll go another direction when it comes down to it.

I don't think Shanahan goes quarterback in round one.

I think Miami and Denver are the two teams that specifically target quartrback in the Top 10. One or two of these quarterbacks will probably "slide." My guess is that its Barkley and Griffin.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 10:56 AM
No one said that four will go in the top five. If the draft was today then Seattle would have the 8th overall pick and Denver the 9th. Miami would have the 1st while Indianapolis had the 2nd overall pick and Washington would have the 10th.

1. Miami takes a quarterback period, no matter where they finish, but right now they have the top pick because of statistics.

2. Indianapolis isn't even sure if Manning will return, and what if his injury doesn't fully heal in time or worse he plays and takes a shot and then there in the same position. I think Indianapolis will have to draft a quarterback unless they're 100% sure that Manning can continue unhindered.

3. Carrol is on the hot seat, he's been throwing away money at the quarterback position and getting shit in return, fans are livid that Hasselbeck is gone and doing well while they're left with second hand crap. I think Carrol is forced to take a quarterback and I also think he'll be pressured by management to stay away from USC prospects.

4. Denver I would say is at about a 99% chance of drafting a quarterback, depending on how the others pan out, they'll probably have a couple options by draft time.

5. Washington could be in a precarious position, they'll be hoping to either trade up or that someone falls in their laps, unless there are no options and are forced to wait till the second round to draft someone. But they're in the mix as well.

So I don't see four or five going in the top five, but I could easily see four or five going in the top ten.


I was going to say the same thing that four quarterbacks in the top five is unlikely but four in the top ten easily.

I think even if Manning fully recovered and they 100% certain he can continue unhindered. He will be 36 years old next season and this appears to be a good draft for quarterbacks there is no way to tell how strong of quarterback class be available two maybe three years down the road.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 11:03 AM
Quarterback is such a big investment, though, that teams get scared off easily. I think Indianapolis is a prime candidate to go second or third round with a quarterback, simply because this injury has proven that they are so thin elsewhere.

I'm not denying that Seattle's two quarterback investments were bad, but I just think they'll go another direction when it comes down to it.

I don't think Shanahan goes quarterback in round one.

I think Miami and Denver are the two teams that specifically target quartrback in the Top 10. One or two of these quarterbacks will probably "slide." My guess is that its Barkley and Griffin.

True a quarterback is a big investment. But there is big difference in the price in comparison's to years past. Whomever they would take wont be paid what Bradford is getting.

If there is a quarterback Shanahan likes in the first round I don't see Shanahan passing on him.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 11:05 AM
Quarterback is such a big investment, though, that teams get scared off easily. I think Indianapolis is a prime candidate to go second or third round with a quarterback, simply because this injury has proven that they are so thin elsewhere.

I'm not denying that Seattle's two quarterback investments were bad, but I just think they'll go another direction when it comes down to it.

I don't think Shanahan goes quarterback in round one.

I think Miami and Denver are the two teams that specifically target quartrback in the Top 10. One or two of these quarterbacks will probably "slide." My guess is that its Barkley and Griffin.

Which is plausible, but then again look at last year's draft - four quarterbacks drafted in the first twelve picks and if it's any indication, especially when you consider it was solid but nothing compared to this draft should all those mentioned actually declare...then anything is possible.

I would love for Denver to have two or three quarterbacks to choose from when it's time to pick...but I think there are teams in severe need of an upgrade at quarterback and unless someone trades for Mallett or McGee then it will be left up to the draft.

Of course it could play out like you said. I don't think we'll have a firm grip on what is likely to happen till after the season though, we could end up with the third overall pick for all we know.

NightTerror218
11-02-2011, 11:37 AM
what are the odds of Bronco scoouts being at the USC/CU game to watch Barkley while his he is in their back yards?

Northman
11-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Some of that does has to do with players he's surround with.

So, you think if you took a guy like Jones who does well with better players would all of a sudden be worse than RGIII on Baylor? I dont think so. Obviously RGIII is decent but im finding it funny that people will try to rip Jones down just because he is on a better college team. I mean, Jones was recruited to OU for a reason, the same with RGIII going to Baylor.

RebelRocker
11-02-2011, 11:42 AM
Quarterback is such a big investment, though, that teams get scared off easily. I think Indianapolis is a prime candidate to go second or third round with a quarterback, simply because this injury has proven that they are so thin elsewhere.

I'm not denying that Seattle's two quarterback investments were bad, but I just think they'll go another direction when it comes down to it.

I don't think Shanahan goes quarterback in round one.

I think Miami and Denver are the two teams that specifically target quartrback in the Top 10. One or two of these quarterbacks will probably "slide." My guess is that its Barkley and Griffin.


Yeah. The idea of getting Luck is so farfetched, at this point. If Oklahoma makes a legitimate championship run and Jones keeps playing well, I see him getting top 3/5 pick hype. That leaves us with Barkley, Griffin or any other random prospect that will get 1st round consideration. Unfortunately for RGIII fans, it sounds like he's planning on staying in school for another year, so it basically leaves us with few options.

1.Barkley fall to us and we take him.

2. Barkley gets taken before our pick and we're forced to go BPA or trade back.

3.Trade back and take a QB late in the 1st/early 2nd round.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 11:58 AM
So, you think if you took a guy like Jones who does well with better players would all of a sudden be worse than RGIII on Baylor? I dont think so. Obviously RGIII is decent but im finding it funny that people will try to rip Jones down just because he is on a better college team. I mean, Jones was recruited to OU for a reason, the same with RGIII going to Baylor.

Griffin was the 8th ranked qb in his recruiting class. He got offers from all over. He chose Baylor over other options because of their history in track.

and Im not trying to rip your boy. Im just saying Im more impressed by Griffin's performance on a bad team than I am by Jones performance on a really good team.

TXBRONC
11-02-2011, 12:00 PM
So, you think if you took a guy like Jones who does well with better players would all of a sudden be worse than RGIII on Baylor? I dont think so. Obviously RGIII is decent but im finding it funny that people will try to rip Jones down just because he is on a better college team. I mean, Jones was recruited to OU for a reason, the same with RGIII going to Baylor.

I was trying say Griffin's numbers would be better with better talent around him. If Jones was surround by lesser talent his numbers would probably suffer. That doesn't mean he a worse prospect.

I'm not trying to knock Jones. I said earlier that I like his game better than Griffins. So if it was my decision I would take Jones without batting a eye.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 12:00 PM
Yeah. The idea of getting Luck is so farfetched, at this point. If Oklahoma makes a legitimate championship run and Jones keeps playing well, I see him getting top 3/5 pick hype. That leaves us with Barkley, Griffin or any other random prospect that will get 1st round consideration. Unfortunately for RGIII fans, it sounds like he's planning on staying in school for another year, so it basically leaves us with few options.

1.Barkley fall to us and we take him.

2. Barkley gets taken before our pick and we're forced to go BPA or trade back.

3.Trade back and take a QB late in the 1st/early 2nd round.

4. Trade for Stephen McGee, or Colin Kaepernick and pick a project to groom in the second or 3rd ie Russell Wilson.

MOtorboat
11-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Wilson reminds me of McNabb more than Griffin does.

Northman
11-02-2011, 12:14 PM
Griffin was the 8th ranked qb in his recruiting class. He got offers from all over. He chose Baylor over other options because of their history in track.

and Im not trying to rip your boy. Im just saying Im more impressed by Griffin's performance on a bad team than I am by Jones performance on a really good team.

Jones isnt my boy, i dont have any favs when it comes to college players because any player can succeed or fail at the pro level. However, Jones dynamics and style of play (same with Luck) is what i would prefer over a guy like RGIII. The types of QB's like RGIII (McNabb, Cunninghham, V. Young, Vick, Tebow, etc) have yet to win anything meaningful at the pro level. Steve Young was the closest thing to what they are but he only managed wo win one SB in his career. I would much rather have a Brady, Elway, Big Ben, or Rodgers type of player and make it too multiple SB's rather than just one shot and done.

Jsteve01
11-02-2011, 12:21 PM
I get what you're saying. I just get a boner when i watch RG3....ok there I said it.

in all honesty though, I'd be happy with Jones, or Griffin. That failed I'd rather take bpa in the first and take Russell Wilson in the 2nd

Lancane
11-02-2011, 12:22 PM
what are the odds of Bronco scoouts being at the USC/CU game to watch Barkley while his he is in their back yards?

The odds are pretty good that Denver has had scouts at a couple USC games already, but chances are high that there will be more then one or two at that game since it's local. I wouldn't be surprised if Elway and Xanders went to watch it live.

Lancane
11-02-2011, 12:23 PM
I get what you're saying. I just get a boner when i watch RG3....ok there I said it.

in all honesty though, I'd be happy with Jones, or Griffin. That failed I'd rather take bpa in the first and take Russell Wilson in the 2nd

Russell Wilson will be lucky to be drafted before the fourth round, not a very big market for a quarterback that's 5'11.

chazoe60
11-02-2011, 12:29 PM
We'll be picking somewhere in the too five, probably top 3. We have a legitimate shot at Jones, Barkley, or RG3(if he comes out) and an outside chance at Luck.

We may not win another game all season I doubt we win more than 1 more. Indy could snatch a couple of wins from the jaws of defeat. Miami might sneak out a couple. Could be a very interesting last couple of weeks to the season by that point. It may end up looking like a polish wrestling match. :laugh:



I'll tell you this much, I'm a huge Miami and Indy fan right now. I would love to see those two teams go on some sort of run.

RebelRocker
11-02-2011, 01:54 PM
4. Trade for Stephen McGee, or Colin Kaepernick and pick a project to groom in the second or 3rd ie Russell Wilson.

It's a possibility, but I think EFX want to draft THEIR guy. And that means no more stop gaps. They must find the Broncos starting QB for the next 10-15 years in the draft this year.

CoachChaz
11-02-2011, 02:35 PM
I'll go on record. 10-12 years from now, we will not see as much of a difference between the success Luck has and the success the next best QB in this draft has.

NightTerror218
11-02-2011, 02:39 PM
I'll go on record. 10-12 years from now, we will not see as much of a difference between the success Luck has and the success the next best QB in this draft has.

Depending on what team drafts them, 1 could go to SB the other could not. Elway vs Jim Kelly.

CoachChaz
11-02-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm almost as tired of hearing Luck's name as I was hearing LeBron's name before he played professionally.

People put him on this insane pedastal and pretend his game is unflawed. The guy has tons of talent and tons of potential, but there is no guarantee he'll be "the next f-ing Peyton manning".

I almost hope the guy fails. In fact...I'm going to start the craze that started when Tebow entered the NFL. I'm going to hate Luck just because many others love him so much. And any time he throws off his back foot, or tucks and runs instead of stepping into the pocket, or throws across his body, or fails to set his feet or any other flaw that Luck has, shows it's head...I'm all over it

MOtorboat
11-02-2011, 03:06 PM
LeBron turned out to be pretty good.

BeefStew25
11-02-2011, 03:09 PM
LeBron turned out to be pretty good.

Except he folds like a lawn chair in crunch time and when a teammate bones his mom.

MOtorboat
11-02-2011, 03:12 PM
Except he folds like a lawn chair in crunch time and when a teammate bones his mom.

So, are you saying Luck's mom is a cougar?

slim
11-02-2011, 03:29 PM
Take the NBA talk to the faggot thread.

tia.

CoachChaz
11-02-2011, 03:32 PM
LeBron turned out to be pretty good.

Fine...but it wasnt their abilities in the pro ranks that I was comparing.

slim
11-02-2011, 03:47 PM
The Luck thing kind of reminds me of Reggie Bush. No way either one has/had a chance to live up to that kind of hype.

CoachChaz
11-02-2011, 04:09 PM
The Luck thing kind of reminds me of Reggie Bush. No way either one has/had a chance to live up to that kind of hype.

There are tons of names you could insert in place of Bush. I dont know...there is no doubt Luck is good, but he definitely has his flaws. It just amazes me that they get looked over as much as they do.

dogfish
11-02-2011, 04:18 PM
I'm almost as tired of hearing Luck's name as I was hearing LeBron's name before he played professionally.

People put him on this insane pedastal and pretend his game is unflawed. The guy has tons of talent and tons of potential, but there is no guarantee he'll be "the next f-ing Peyton manning".

I almost hope the guy fails. In fact...I'm going to start the craze that started when Tebow entered the NFL. I'm going to hate Luck just because many others love him so much. And any time he throws off his back foot, or tucks and runs instead of stepping into the pocket, or throws across his body, or fails to set his feet or any other flaw that Luck has, shows it's head...I'm all over it

chaz. . . why do you care so much what other people think?


:noidea:

CoachChaz
11-02-2011, 04:22 PM
chaz. . . why do you care so much what other people think?


:noidea:

I wouldnt say I "care" about what others think. I'm just tired of every form of media...including this one...getting on it's knees and saying Ahhhhh when it comes to discussion of Luck.

The negatives are never discussed...and the guy isnt perfect. It's more irritating than anything else. Just have to suck it up til April

Lancane
11-03-2011, 01:20 AM
I wouldnt say I "care" about what others think. I'm just tired of every form of media...including this one...getting on it's knees and saying Ahhhhh when it comes to discussion of Luck.

The negatives are never discussed...and the guy isnt perfect. It's more irritating than anything else. Just have to suck it up til April

I can understand Chaz, it's like some of the whining on here that it's Luck or bust, when I see various other options that could fix the quarterback situation.

Yes, I would love to be able to draft Luck...reality of the matter is that there is little chance of that happening. But all this Luck crap demeans the rest of the class, I would take a fair number of other prospects in the draft and be just as happy so should those who're bitching, because there is hardly a chance in hell they're worse then Tebow, Orton and Quinn (or) as I like to call them now, the three stooges, Larry, Curly and Moe!

I Eat Staples
11-03-2011, 11:08 AM
RGIII is a much better passer than Tebow, but of course that isn't saying much. I'm not so high on him.