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silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 02:04 PM
According to John Fox, this "building" back up of the organization in Denver is going to take "at least 3 years..."

Fire this loser now.

Actually let's start by firing the management, who will in turn get a new coach.

All Bowlen wants to do is win?

Dzone
10-23-2011, 02:06 PM
Bunkley...hit of the game..Bunkley is dazed...Now watch Marshall singlehandedly kick ourr ass

Dzone
10-23-2011, 02:08 PM
Wilhite looking like that Smith dude that Mcd gave up a #1 pick for

Dzone
10-23-2011, 02:09 PM
Ooops, sorry,I was on the wrong thread...hahaha..but I do say Fox should get shitcanned

FlyByU
10-23-2011, 02:09 PM
According to John Fox, this "building" back up of the organization in Denver is going to take "at least 3 years..."

Fire this loser now.

Actually let's start by firing the management, who will in turn get a new coach.

All Bowlen wants to do is win?


Don't forget McCoy when Fox is fired and Xanders as well fire him also.

chazoe60
10-23-2011, 02:10 PM
Year 1- Suck for Luck

Year 2- Suck with Luck

Year 3- Championship!!!

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Don't forget McCoy when Fox is fired and Xanders as well fire him also.

I will assume that any competent GM/HC will know that McCoy is not an OC at the NFL level. But then again, this is the Denver Broncos we are talking about.

broken12
10-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Occupy dove valley ........

jhildebrand
10-23-2011, 02:26 PM
Elway has been pushing the 3 year talk the most and longest, should we fire him to silk? :confused:

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 02:29 PM
Elway has been pushing the 3 year talk the most and longest, should we fire him to silk? :confused:

He gets a pass for learning on the job. Is John Fox learning on the job? John Harbaugh is in SF.

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Of all the problems and turmoil this organization has, John Fox has been the most disappointing. If anything, I was hoping we would get a coach that could at least get his team to compete week in and week out. We don't even do that. John Fox is garbage.

jhildebrand
10-23-2011, 02:39 PM
He gets a pass for learning on the job. Is John Fox learning on the job? John Harbaugh is in SF.

Fair enough.

I will be happy just getting Xanders out of town! We have to start somewhere.

I am ok with Fox...for now. The players seem to like him and respond to him. For the most part, the fundamentals are a lot better than they have been.

McDaniels tore this organization apart. It is just going to take a while.

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 03:35 PM
Tebow engineers 2 TD drives including a 2 point conversion to tie the game up in the last 10 minutes. WHat does John Fox and Mike McCoy do? Goes 3 and out on 3 conservative runs with great field possession on the first drive (was he setting up for a 65 yard FG?) and then calls 3 conservative run plays to set up a 52 yard FG for a kicker who missed 2 earlier FG's.

Props to Tim Tebow for winning this game in spite of the terrible decisions from John Fox and Mike McCoy.

Northman
10-23-2011, 03:54 PM
Yes, Bowlen wants to win. So does Tebow.

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 03:56 PM
Tebow wants to win in spite of John Fox and Mike McCoy.

missingnumber7
10-23-2011, 03:59 PM
It amazes me that they think that it will only take three years to fix what mcdouchebag screwed up.

I Eat Staples
10-23-2011, 04:59 PM
I said when we hired him it would take 3 years. Its unrealistic to think we can win right away after the McD disaster. Its a process.

Lancane
10-23-2011, 05:02 PM
I said when we hired him it would take 3 years. Its unrealistic to think we can win right away after the McD disaster. Its a process.

I dunno, EFX seems to be a walking natural disaster of a different sort at the moment.

I Eat Staples
10-23-2011, 05:06 PM
I dunno, EFX seems to be a walking natural disaster of a different sort at the moment.

How so? I don't think the first draft was bad, although I was pissed we didn't draft a DT.

The only issue I have is McCoy as the OC.

Northman
10-23-2011, 05:07 PM
We still got a long way to go.

BroncoWave
10-23-2011, 05:10 PM
Of all the problems and turmoil this organization has, John Fox has been the most disappointing. If anything, I was hoping we would get a coach that could at least get his team to compete week in and week out. We don't even do that. John Fox is garbage.

While I am also far from sold on John Fox and think the playcalling leaves MUCH to be desired, we HAVE competed in every game but GB. If a few breaks go differently we could easily be 5-1. I don't think you can deny how much our defense has improved from last season. That alone keeps us in games.

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 05:15 PM
While I am also far from sold on John Fox and think the playcalling leaves MUCH to be desired, we HAVE competed in every game but GB. If a few breaks go differently we could easily be 5-1. I don't think you can deny how much our defense has improved from last season. That alone keeps us in games.

I agree with this, which is why I don't understand his "at least 3 years away".

Just think, if Tebow can learn how to play throughout the flow of the game like he does at the end, Denver could find themselves in the playoff race around week 12 considering what is happening in the AFCWest. If that happens the organization is going to have a lot of egg on its face, from trading Brandon Lloyd, to the Kyle Orton debacle, to Fox's comment about being 3 years away.

It also makes John Fox's comment about "wanting a gamer" look real bad, considering its an exact definition of Tebow in crunch time, and far from what Orton is in crunch time. The organization should have figured that out from last year.

Lancane
10-23-2011, 05:29 PM
How so? I don't think the first draft was bad, although I was pissed we didn't draft a DT.

The only issue I have is McCoy as the OC.

How so? The meat and potatoes of a front office is the General Manager, even above the VP of Football Operations, who is by in right the Chief Officer of the all football operations, not just players, coaches and the like. But Elway has no experience at the position in the NFL, he doesn't have the edge of some who were taught by others who knew how to do their jobs. Yes, they had a good draft, but they've screwed the pooch in Free Agency which is more then evident (besides McGahee and a solid trade that nabbed Bunkley). They seem to not have a grip on the ins and outs of their own team, look at how bad this team has been, not just coaching but in dealing players, handling situations that arise...what else have they done besides have a good draft? Not to mention that Fox is a sub-par coach to begin with, he runs your typical Tampa-2 'Bend Don't Break' defense and likes a conservative offense, which people complained about and we as fans were told by Elway himself that the offense would be anything but conservative, and it's been the opposite, there is no explosiveness with this offense, and now with Tebow it will be even more so.

Yes, McCoy is a part of the problem...but he runs the offense in accordance to the head coach, no matter the situation - part of the blame has to rest at his feet, just like a lack of adding better free agents or questionable trades have to land at Xanders' feet and some at Elways'.

Lancane
10-23-2011, 05:39 PM
While I am also far from sold on John Fox and think the playcalling leaves MUCH to be desired, we HAVE competed in every game but GB. If a few breaks go differently we could easily be 5-1. I don't think you can deny how much our defense has improved from last season. That alone keeps us in games.

It's a 'Bend Don't Break' Tampa-2 Defense, the defense is improved overall but can not really remain competitive with a lackluster offense. So do we really care that the defense is improved if it doesn't lead anywhere? It's the same problem we had with Shanahan just on a different side of the ball. And John Fox has never had a continuously dominant defense like the Steelers or Ravens, his only success was when he paired the defense with an above average offense and he's only had two offensive units worth a damn in that respect. Most of his offenses were horrid, leaving the defense to fend for themselves and look far worse then they really were.

I don't think Fox will find success in Denver, not unless someone takes the offense out of his hands and gives the damn job to someone with a clue and therein makes sure Fox knows he has no control of that side of the ball. But do you see that happening? If Mike McCoy remains as the offensive coordinator after this season, then we'll know were in the same boat as we were when Shanahan wanted to keep Slowik, and we'll be bitching for the next year or two, at least until Elway gets a clue.

Locnar
10-23-2011, 05:46 PM
Well 3 years is better than 10. Which is the number I was thinking it would be a year ago.

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 05:49 PM
Well 3 years is better than 10. Which is the number I was thinking it would be a year ago.

Considering history has shown that down and out organizations have gotten it together virtually overnight in the past, 10 years basically equals 3 in the NFL.

In other words, rarely do organizations have a 3 years rebuilding plan that actually pans out. Most of the time it is out of luck, or as simple as a coaching change. The coaching change didn't work in Denver, so luck will have to do.

underrated29
10-23-2011, 05:53 PM
How so? The meat and potatoes of a front office is the General Manager, even above the VP of Football Operations, who is by in right the Chief Officer of the all football operations, not just players, coaches and the like. But Elway has no experience at the position in the NFL, he doesn't have the edge of some who were taught by others who knew how to do their jobs. Yes, they had a good draft, but they've screwed the pooch in Free Agency which is more then evident (besides McGahee and a solid trade that nabbed Bunkley). They seem to not have a grip on the ins and outs of their own team, look at how bad this team has been, not just coaching but in dealing players, handling situations that arise...what else have they done besides have a good draft? Not to mention that Fox is a sub-par coach to begin with, he runs your typical Tampa-2 'Bend Don't Break' defense and likes a conservative offense, which people complained about and we as fans were told by Elway himself that the offense would be anything but conservative, and it's been the opposite, there is no explosiveness with this offense, and now with Tebow it will be even more so.

Yes, McCoy is a part of the problem...but he runs the offense in accordance to the head coach, no matter the situation - part of the blame has to rest at his feet, just like a lack of adding better free agents or questionable trades have to land at Xanders' feet and some at Elways'.




I like this post but

I have been all over Mccoy ass for playcalling these last 3 years!! I have not liked his playcalling at all.
I do not think he gets a pass saying he is running foxs offense. Sure fox will tell him some things, but Mccoy has always been predictable and crappy. He also is totally completely inept when knowing what the defense is going to do. Especially on 3rd down when the D sends the house. You attack the blitz, not try for the 13 yard outs. There is no time for the qb to make it.

I can not stand Mccoy as the OC. But I also have not been happy with our OCs since the guy before Bates? Was that Kubes? I did not like bates either.

silkamilkamonico
10-23-2011, 06:03 PM
I like this post but

I have been all over Mccoy ass for playcalling these last 3 years!! I have not liked his playcalling at all.
I do not think he gets a pass saying he is running foxs offense. Sure fox will tell him some things, but Mccoy has always been predictable and crappy. He also is totally completely inept when knowing what the defense is going to do. Especially on 3rd down when the D sends the house. You attack the blitz, not try for the 13 yard outs. There is no time for the qb to make it.

I can not stand Mccoy as the OC. But I also have not been happy with our OCs since the guy before Bates? Was that Kubes? I did not like bates either.

McCoy has only been calling plays for 8 games or however long since McDaniels was fired. McDaniels called the plays when he was coaching. Ironically, the offense lost the only thing it had when McDaniels was fired, and that was moving the ball between the 20's. Now they can't even do that. McCoy is garbage and must go.

Lancane
10-23-2011, 06:29 PM
I like this post but

I have been all over Mccoy ass for playcalling these last 3 years!! I have not liked his playcalling at all.
I do not think he gets a pass saying he is running foxs offense. Sure fox will tell him some things, but Mccoy has always been predictable and crappy. He also is totally completely inept when knowing what the defense is going to do. Especially on 3rd down when the D sends the house. You attack the blitz, not try for the 13 yard outs. There is no time for the qb to make it.

I can not stand Mccoy as the OC. But I also have not been happy with our OCs since the guy before Bates? Was that Kubes? I did not like bates either.

UR, it's rather simple though...Mike McCoy has really only been calling the offensive plays and game planned himself since McDaniels was fired...and he's had one good game in that time frame, which would have been last year in the win over Houston. Other then that, he's pretty much shown that he's inept at the position. But, John Fox kept him even knowing that the offense that McCoy is most comfortable with was akin to his offensive philosophy and was indeed an offense that in Carolina had been down right pathetic.

I'm not saying that Bates was my favorite, but he was far better then McCoy. Hell, McDaniels was a better offensive coordinator even though he was also the head coach. And McCoy is running a conservative offense, that's exactly what Fox is known for...Fox has to take some of the blame. Want to know how bad I see it? I think it's pretty bad when I, myself am starting to question the firing of McDaniels and replacing him with Fox and if it was really the right answer! That's how bad this team is - so what that the defense improved...with as bad as the offense is, it doesn't make a shit of difference. And Fox has always been stubborn about his coaches, it's what cost him in Carolina and I'm more afraid that Elway is blinded by it all - rather then learning that sometimes you have to make the hard choices to be successful.

FlyByU
10-23-2011, 06:36 PM
I don't think you can deny how much our defense has improved from last season. That alone keeps us in games.

This game in Miami did make the D look good at least in stats I think this game will help them move up in that area.

Miami
Total Net Yards 267
Net Yards Passing 173
Net Yards Rushing 94

That isn't a bad D game for any team Rushing under 100yds passing well under 200yds that was good D.

Lancane
10-23-2011, 06:43 PM
This game in Miami did make the D look good at least in stats I think this game will help them move up in that area.

Miami
Total Net Yards 267
Net Yards Passing 173
Net Yards Rushing 94

That isn't a bad D game for any team Rushing under 100yds passing well under 200yds that was good D.

You're right, our 'Bend Don't Break' defense did outstanding today, the reason this game sucked was because of the offense...and people should be asking what would have been had the offense been better and the defense fed off the offense?

Foochacho
10-24-2011, 12:31 AM
When I bid a job I like to tell people it takes a day or 2 longer than it really will. Then when I finish early they are real happy. Also it gives me a little room if something goes wrong. By telling us three years we won't have as high of expectations. If you start winning earlier you look like a hero, and if something goes wrong you can say I told you three years. Whether we become a contender depends on Tebows delelopment. So it is really just a "see what happens" kind of deal right now.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-24-2011, 12:42 AM
Man, why couldn't we play the Raiders this week and the Dolphins next week? :laugh:

dogfish
10-24-2011, 12:44 AM
i have no problems with three years. . . IF they're actually making some legit, tangible progress, and i'm satisfied that they're doing everything they can. . .

i'm lukewarm at very best on their first draft aside from von miller, and still not happy at all that we sat on our hands in free agency with so much cap room-- i know people don't wanna hear it, but we could have accelerated the process, and we didn't. . . doesn't matter now anyway, but it doesn't mean i'll just give them a total mulligan either. . .

i'm at least glad that tebow is starting, and i was glad to see Q carter out there today-- i've always liked his long term potential better than rahim moore. . . i'd still like to see more of nate irving. . . probably the most immediate thing i'll be looking at is what kind of progress tebow makes, and whether we're going to roll with him past this year-- like it or not, that's probably our single most pressing issue. . .

what they do at OC is going to be a hot-button issue, for sure. . . mike mccoy's running out of friends and supporters faster than a meth-head goes through a dime bag. . . i'm willing to give fox a pass on that one, as keeping mccoy did make some sense given the lack of OTAs and a proper camp, plus the fact that we were changing our defensive scheme. . . what happens there going forward is of much bigger interest to me-- fox and co. weren't super stubborn about orton-- i'm just hoping they'll handle mccoy the same way, barring some unlikely and massive improvement down the stretch. . .

in short, i'm willing to be patient while they develop young talent-- as long as they're actually acquiring real talent, and have a competent staff in place to coach 'em up. . . otherwise we're wasting more time, and the fans will be justified to react accordingly. . .


edit: i'd also like to see them work out an extension for bunkley. . . he's been our best run-stopper, and shouldn't command a massive salary. . .

Canmore
10-24-2011, 01:03 AM
While I am also far from sold on John Fox and think the playcalling leaves MUCH to be desired, we HAVE competed in every game but GB. If a few breaks go differently we could easily be 5-1. I don't think you can deny how much our defense has improved from last season. That alone keeps us in games.

The defense has kept us in games, with some clutch quarterback play we easily could have won a couple more games at least. I too think the play calling has been really suspect if not down right atrocious. If Tebow settles in and plays four quarters we could be alright. Not great but acceptable or respectable.

Traveler
10-24-2011, 09:43 AM
While I'd like to change the OC position after this sason, I'll give them a pass this year.

No offseason really set this team back more than most. It certainly stunted Tebow's possible growth as a QB.

As much as I'd like to get a new OC in the offseason, they need to stick with what they have for now. Let's see where we are after everyone gets the coaching they require in this scheme before they make even more changes in coaches/scheme.

Cugel
10-24-2011, 09:52 AM
According to John Fox, this "building" back up of the organization in Denver is going to take "at least 3 years..."

Fire this loser now.

Actually let's start by firing the management, who will in turn get a new coach.

All Bowlen wants to do is win?

My God! The hopeless ignorance of some fans! :coffee:

Have you NOT been paying any attention the last 5 years? 4-12 ring any bells? McMoron coming in and replacing Hillis, Torain, Cutler, Sheffler, & Marshall with Orton, Lawrence Maroney, Moreno, and never bothering to fix the defense, which fell to 32nd in the league with useless FA stiffs like Ron Fields and Jamal Williams?

Oh, and endlessly horrible drafting like throwing away a 1st rounder (#14) for a 2nd round pick to select Alphonso Smith and then throwing him away without even using him only to watch him start for Detroit? Oh, and throwing away a 2nd rounder on Darcel McBath as well. McMoron's drafting was the worst in NFL history. Probably worse overall than Matt Millen.

Elway and Fox come in to a team utterly devoid of talent and tell the fans the truth "it will take 3 years to rebuild this franchise" and they want to fire them?

What, you think just plant a few magic beans, throw Tim Tebow in and "miracles will happen?" Well, you might be right if the Broncos can only play the Dolphins 16 games a season. If they could only do that they could go 12-4!

dogfish
10-24-2011, 01:23 PM
While I'd like to change the OC position after this sason, I'll give them a pass this year.

No offseason really set this team back more than most. It certainly stunted Tebow's possible growth as a QB.

As much as I'd like to get a new OC in the offseason, they need to stick with what they have for now. Let's see where we are after everyone gets the coaching they require in this scheme before they make even more changes in coaches/scheme.

enh. . . three years of mccoy is MORE than enough to see that he's a hopeless turd. . . if he wasn't i'd agree with your point about consistency, but consistency is only valuable when you're learning to do good things consistently. . . mccoy isn't helping tebow, neither is gase-- the kid looks like he's made very little progress over two years. . . we need to get somebody competent in here first, then let tim grow in the scheme. . .

Traveler
10-24-2011, 01:53 PM
enh. . . three years of mccoy is MORE than enough to see that he's a hopeless turd. . . if he wasn't i'd agree with your point about consistency, but consistency is only valuable when you're learning to do good things consistently. . . mccoy isn't helping tebow, neither is gase-- the kid looks like he's made very little progress over two years. . . we need to get somebody competent in here first, then let tim grow in the scheme. . .

In reality, McCoy has really only called plays and designed gameplans for a total of 9 games. While we got lip service the offense wouldn't be changed because Tebow was starting, yesterdays game showed that was BS.

I'm hoping they open it up more to better utilize TT skills. I'm will to give them a pass this season.

vandammage13
10-24-2011, 01:54 PM
When I bid a job I like to tell people it takes a day or 2 longer than it really will. Then when I finish early they are real happy. Also it gives me a little room if something goes wrong. By telling us three years we won't have as high of expectations. If you start winning earlier you look like a hero, and if something goes wrong you can say I told you three years. Whether we become a contender depends on Tebows delelopment. So it is really just a "see what happens" kind of deal right now.

I can't get past the mental image of a dwarf with a mullet giving me a serious bid on a construction job....:lol: