So if we're keepig Slowik, as Shanahan says, and...

[lex]

making personnel changes, then why did we get rid of Bates again? If our personnel was better suited for what Slowik wants to do, how do you a year and a half later end the season proclaiming that personnel changes need to be made? How have we been better off without Bates?

[weazel]

making personnel changes, then why did we get rid of Bates again? If our personnel was better suited for what Slowik wants to do, how do you a year and a half later end the season proclaiming that personnel changes need to be made? How have we been better off without Bates?
__________________
Mock/Wishlist:

Sign:
O.J. Atogwe, S
Nate Washington, WR
David Anderson, WR
Kyle Boller, QB

Draft:
1. Beanie Wells, RB, Ohio State
2. Alex Mack, C, Cal
3. Vance Walker, DT, Georgia Tech
4. Jason Phillips, MLB, TCU
5. Zack Follett, SLB, Cal
5. Bruce Johnson, CB, Miami
6. Tony Fiammetta, FB, Syracuse
7. Marcus Thigpen, KR, Indiana
7. Arthur Jones, DT, Syracuse

Im confused Lex, you are angry with the defense but in your wishlist you want to sign 3 offensive players and 1 defensive while waiting until the 3rd round for a defensive player in the draft??

Sounds alot like Broncos management, is this Shanny?

[Tned]

Im confused Lex, you are angry with the defense but in your wishlist you want to sign 3 offensive players and 1 defensive while waiting until the 3rd round for a defensive player in the draft??

Sounds alot like Broncos management, is this Shanny?

Because Webster, McCree and Manuel would be STARS with a different DC.

[weazel]

Because Webster, McCree and Manuel would be STARS with a different DC.

:laugh: and the D-Line would magically be able to put pressure on the QB!

[lex]

Im confused Lex, you are angry with the defense but in your wishlist you want to sign 3 offensive players and 1 defensive while waiting until the 3rd round for a defensive player in the draft??

Sounds alot like Broncos management, is this Shanny?

No. Youre totally wrong. I think we need a more competent DC, otherwise, we are wasting draft picks by going defense in Rd 1. I feel that if we draft a RB in Rd 1, we at least know he will be productive and well utilized. Whoever we may draft on defense is less of a certainty. I have such little faith in Slowik. Id rather helpt the running game and really complete the offense than waste picks on defense.

Even if we had a competent DC though, Id still be in favor of taking Wells, such is his value. The difference would be that I know he can get more out of players. Other people would be less fervent about going all defense though. Without a competent DC, its hard to really know what our problems are.

[lex]

Because Webster, McCree and Manuel would be STARS with a different DC.


Lets flip this around. Do you think Cole of Philadelphia or Harrison of Pittsburgh would be as effective if Slowik was their DC? They wouldnt likely do squat for Slowik and then Slowik would probably throw them under the bus.

[weazel]

so if youre weak in an area, dont try to make it stronger. Instead, try to make the stronger part, stronger... Okay, makes more sense, thanks.

So its all on the DC then. So switch Denvers defense with Pittsburgh's and all of a sudden the guys we had know how to tackle? The DC of an NFL team has to show players how to tackle? Shouldnt they have known that maybe sometime before they went to college??? Im not an NFL player, but I would think that I would have to know how to tackle sometime before being drafted into the league.

[lex]

so if youre weak in an area, dont try to make it stronger. Instead, try to make the stronger part, stronger... Okay, makes more sense, thanks.

It doesnt have to make sense to you.

[Superchop 7]

Bates knew 1 type of defense.

Slowik has no problem changing things up trying to find a way to win.

Big difference.

We simply did not have the players.

I wouldn't fire Slowik either.

These guys can't play "any" style of defense.

[weazel]

It doesnt have to make sense to you.

as long as one of the voices in your head tells you you're right. :listen:

[G_Money]

so if youre weak in an area, dont try to make it stronger. Instead, try to make the stronger part, stronger... Okay, makes more sense, thanks.

So its all on the DC then. So switch Denvers defense with Pittsburgh's and all of a sudden the guys we had know how to tackle? The DC of an NFL team has to show players how to tackle? Shouldnt they have known that maybe sometime before they went to college??? Im not an NFL player, but I would think that I would have to know how to tackle sometime before being drafted into the league.

Actually, most great defenses have 15, 20 year coaching vets from the college ranks that instruct their positional players in the nuances of the position.

There's almost always one on every great D, normally DL or LB - though sometimes it's the DC himself.

Because guys don't get taught right in college (how could they, with 100+ teams, none of whom are likely to specialize in the specific scheme of the pro defense). They need extra teaching.

Our teachers suck, like our schemer sucks. Nobody in the last several years has improved their skills and reactions while playing for us. Like... no one.

It's also a problem, yes. :coffee: One that won't be rectified until we get rid of the guy running the thing.

~G

[ktrain]

Bates knew 1 type of defense.

Slowik has no problem changing things up trying to find a way to win.

Big difference.

We simply did not have the players.

I wouldn't fire Slowik either.

These guys can't play "any" style of defense.

so it's the players huh??? why did shanny & slowDICK sign/keep these shitty players then........

NO MORE EXCUSES

[weazel]

Actually, most great defenses have 15, 20 year coaching vets from the college ranks that instruct their positional players in the nuances of the position.

There's almost always one on every great D, normally DL or LB - though sometimes it's the DC himself.

Because guys don't get taught right in college (how could they, with 100+ teams, none of whom are likely to specialize in the specific scheme of the pro defense). They need extra teaching.

Our teachers suck, like our schemer sucks. Nobody in the last several years has improved their skills and reactions while playing for us. Like... no one.

It's also a problem, yes. :coffee: One that won't be rectified until we get rid of the guy running the thing.

~G

I understand that they need specialized teaching and training, but go back and watch the games this season. Most of the defensive players didnt look like they wanted to tackle, let alone had talent in the skill.

[G_Money]

I know it. Several of them are not good players. Hell, Manuel and McCree are like 4 bad players between them.

But good defensive coaches know what players succeed in their schemes. Manuel and McCree had ZERO chance of being successful in a deep-cover scheme, with Manuel especially being only marginally successful in run support but atrocious in coverage.

Why are we adding multiple players who would automatically fail in the Slowik Scheme?

We have many players with deficiencies, but we also are not likely to replace 9 starters on defense. Some of those guys will HAVE to be used effectively for us to be successful, and so far Slowik has used NO ONE effectively. EVER.

I guess that concerns me a lil.

Good defenses all have good teachers who put everybody through their paces, teach how to strip the ball and attack against the pass to create turnovers...I mean, there are reasons that certain DCs have ridiculous turnover ratios, others can ALWAYS stop the run...

They're good at something and they teach it well to every player on the roster. Not all of those players are great players, but all of them either learn, or get fired.

Our guys aren't learning. Maybe they're not even being taught. We can fire them, but if the guys we bring in aren't being taught either...

~G

[weazel]

i know it. Several of them are not good players. Hell, manuel and mccree are like 4 bad players between them.

~g

lmao!

[Simple Jaded]

Bates knew 1 type of defense.

Slowik has no problem changing things up trying to find a way to win.

Big difference.

We simply did not have the players.

I wouldn't fire Slowik either.

These guys can't play "any" style of defense.

That's not accurate.

Bates knew 1 system very well and used that knowledge to put together proven defenses.

Slowik has tried everything and has failed miserably at all of them.

Firing Coyer was a big mistake, hiring Bates without giving him the studs he needs was another.......turning a pathetic defense over to an even more pathetic defensive coordinator is the biggest mistake of Shanahan's career of big mistakes.

Slowik sucks ass.......

[Shazam!]

Greg Robinson is available and was the best DC the Broncos have had in 10 years. Shanahan shouldn't have fired him, even back then...

[Tned]

I know it. Several of them are not good players. Hell, Manuel and McCree are like 4 bad players between them.

But good defensive coaches know what players succeed in their schemes. Manuel and McCree had ZERO chance of being successful in a deep-cover scheme, with Manuel especially being only marginally successful in run support but atrocious in coverage.

Why are we adding multiple players who would automatically fail in the Slowik Scheme?

We have many players with deficiencies, but we also are not likely to replace 9 starters on defense. Some of those guys will HAVE to be used effectively for us to be successful, and so far Slowik has used NO ONE effectively. EVER.

I guess that concerns me a lil.

Good defenses all have good teachers who put everybody through their paces, teach how to strip the ball and attack against the pass to create turnovers...I mean, there are reasons that certain DCs have ridiculous turnover ratios, others can ALWAYS stop the run...

They're good at something and they teach it well to every player on the roster. Not all of those players are great players, but all of them either learn, or get fired.

Our guys aren't learning. Maybe they're not even being taught. We can fire them, but if the guys we bring in aren't being taught either...

~G

Your teaching comments are interesting. The Broncos have been poor tacklers and at getting turn overs for many, many years, while other teams are excellent and tackling and stripping the ball.

Is that teaching? Talent? Both?

I know in baseball, you periodically hear about teams that really focus on fundamentals, because their base running skills or other skills are lacking.

So, I can see your point in this regard.