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View Full Version : Raiders: Palmer could play on Nov. 6th against Denver



Magnificent Seven
10-18-2011, 08:59 PM
The Raiders play Kansas City on Sunday then have a bye next week, making it logical that new QB Carson Palmer would wait until Nov. 6 to make his starting debut against Denver. “I’m not going to let that out of the bag just yet, but you got to be ready for anything from me,” Hue Jackson said when asked if Palmer would start against the Chiefs.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/15757273

Magnificent Seven
10-18-2011, 09:01 PM
Von & Elvis,

Go crush him on his first day in Oakland! Give him a day to remember!

DenBronx
10-18-2011, 09:02 PM
Its not like he's any better than campbell. less athletic, about the same arm strength, hasn't been relevent in 5 years, injured his leg and now an imobile qb is basically now a statue.

they got raped in the trade.

DenBronx
10-18-2011, 09:03 PM
Von & Elvis,

Go crush him on his first day in Oakland! Give him a day to remember!

oakland is playing a differant and healthy broncos team this time. i want to see their happy go lucky faces turn into doom and gloom again.

von and doom are going to eat palmer for lunch!

chazoe60
10-18-2011, 09:04 PM
November 6 is my birthday. Beating the Raiders would be a hell of a birthday present

SR
10-18-2011, 09:07 PM
Von & Elvis,

Go crush him on his first day in Oakland! Give him a day to remember!

oakland is playing a differant and healthy broncos team this time. i want to see their happy go lucky faces turn into doom and gloom again.

von and doom are going to eat palmer for lunch!

What exactly is so different about them now? As far as I'm concerned as of now Oakland is 4-2 and Denver is 1-4.

Oakland has no 2, 3, or 4 round picks in the 2012 draft as it is, if I remember correctly. Guess they'll just have to keep picking up the league's vagabonds and misfits.

ikillz0mbies
10-18-2011, 09:20 PM
Just watch...he leads the Raiders to a come back that game....

chazoe60
10-18-2011, 09:26 PM
Just watch...he leads the Raiders to a come back that game....

Why are you trying to ruin my birthday undead slayer?

ikillz0mbies
10-18-2011, 09:32 PM
The Broncos have the tendency to do that. Remember, they let the Raiders come back, led by the combo of Gradkowski and JaMarcus Russell......just saying.

camdisco24
10-18-2011, 10:50 PM
I personally think the Carson Palmer trade will go down as one of the worst deals in NFL history for the Raiders.

DenBronx
10-18-2011, 11:32 PM
What exactly is so different about them now?

Well um let me see...


New starting QB who has a pair of balls.
All of our WRs are healthy minus Llyod who was traded.
Our RBs have switched and McGahee is the starter who is running like a fat kid who gets a free chocolate cake if he scores a TD.
Moreno is being used properly as a 3rd down/pass catching back.
Julius Thomas/pass catching TE.
Demaryius Thomas
Healthy Dumervil
DJ
Marcus Thomas
Orlando Franklin is playing much much better than week 1.
I know I'm forgetting someone else...

And oh yeah, a NEW starting QB with a set a balls the size of a bull.


Yeah pretty much a differant team that has nothing to lose. This will be a trap game and will bring chokeland off their little high.

Canmore
10-18-2011, 11:40 PM
I personally think the Carson Palmer trade will go down as one of the worst deals in NFL history for the Raiders.

With the JaWalrus fiasco that is saying a lot.

Magnificent Seven
10-18-2011, 11:52 PM
Well um let me see...


New starting QB who has a pair of balls.
All of our WRs are healthy minus Llyod who was traded.
Our RBs have switched and McGahee is the starter who is running like a fat kid who gets a free chocolate cake if he scores a TD.
Moreno is being used properly as a 3rd down/pass catching back.
Julius Thomas/pass catching TE.
Demaryius Thomas
Healthy Dumervil
DJ
Marcus Thomas
Orlando Franklin is playing much much better than week 1.
I know I'm forgetting someone else...

And oh yeah, a NEW starting QB with a set a balls the size of a bull.


Yeah pretty much a differant team that has nothing to lose. This will be a trap game and will bring chokeland off their little high.

Don't forget Decker! He's awesome!

DenBronx
10-18-2011, 11:59 PM
Don't forget Decker! He's awesome!

He played game 1 and was actually the only reason why we were even in the game.


But yeah, he's pretty awesome. He has double Llyods FF numbers too.

DenBronx
10-19-2011, 12:01 AM
I think alot of people forget we have had 6 or 7 key players injured for about 4 games. :eek:


And if Tebow would have played from game 1 things might have turned out differant. Who knows? :confused:


But we shall see. :D

dogfish
10-19-2011, 12:09 AM
as long as we can keep them from dropping fuggin' fifty-nine again, i don't care who plays. . .


bit off-topic, but i do have to say that hue jackson is the best villain in this rivalry since gruden. . . ironic, but after hiring such bad coaches, i think al davis might have left them a good one as his final choice. . . too bad-- i think lane kiffin would've been a much more fitting legacy. . .

DenBronx
10-19-2011, 12:20 AM
as long as we can keep them from dropping fuggin' fifty-nine again, i don't care who plays. . .


bit off-topic, but i do have to say that hue jackson is the best villain in this rivalry since gruden. . . ironic, but after hiring such bad coaches, i think al davis might have left them a good one as his final choice. . . too bad-- i think lane kiffin would've been a much more fitting legacy. . .

hue seems to have a good offensive mind. but if he's in full control and he is trading away 1st like no tomorrow i think that franchise in a world of trouble.

he just might be the black version of josh mcdaniels.

BroncoStud
10-19-2011, 01:12 AM
That was a very bad trade for the Raiders. We're talking McDaniels level of bad. From everything I've seen Palmer is a downgrade from Campbell.

He may come out and show that he's not done yet but I don't think we will ever see the Pro Bowl Palmer again. He's not mobile anymore and his arm isn't what it was. The ceiling has lowered on his capability. I would venture to say he is much closer to Kyle Orton in 2011 than Carson Palmer circa 2005.

We're talking about a guy that has had major knee reconstruction and Tommy John's in his freaking throwing elbow who is now 31 years old...

DenBronx
10-19-2011, 02:55 AM
Yeah, as much as Orton sucks, Palmers pretty close.

dogfish
10-19-2011, 03:05 AM
Yeah, as much as Orton sucks, Palmers pretty close.

man, that was a lower blow than kimo von olhoefen's!

:eek:

Canmore
10-19-2011, 04:26 AM
While I know it's kind of quick, I wouldn't be surprised to see Palmer play this week. I know we will see him on Nov 6th after the Raiders have there bye week.

chazoe60
10-19-2011, 07:08 AM
How funny would it be if Palmer just said "I actually like being retired, thanks but no thanks".

Juriga72
10-19-2011, 07:14 AM
What worries me is... "How good of a qb do you need with a running game"...

Oakland is running VERY well right now. Campbell ( SP) was working because of play action.. something that Palmer LIVED on in CIncy...

IMHO if Oakland can keep the passing numbers down, just getting those quick hits thru play action...damn they are going to be solid. I so hate the Faiders...

Juriga72
10-19-2011, 07:15 AM
How funny would it be if Palmer just said "I actually like being retired, thanks but no thanks".

How much more funny is it that they said.."Orton? nah... We'll take a guy sitting on his couch for TWO first round picks"

camdisco24
10-19-2011, 09:22 AM
With the JaWalrus fiasco that is saying a lot.

I think this will hurt the Raiders long term even more the JaWalrus Jellyroll. Giving up such high picks for a guy who might have 2 years left??? Crazy, but very Raider-like so I'm not too surprised.

TXBRONC
10-19-2011, 10:06 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I just heard that Hue Jackson called this trade the biggest trade in the history of the NFL or something to that effect. :lol:

Also heard that Palmer has done nothing to keep himself in shape and hasn't even thrown a football since the end of last season. :shocked:

Canmore
10-19-2011, 10:34 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I just heard that Hue Jackson called this trade the biggest trade in the history of the NFL or something to that effect. :lol:

Also heard that Palmer has done nothing to keep himself in shape and hasn't even thrown a football since the end of last season. :shocked:

If Palmer really is in the shape you say he is this is going to be very interesting. As far as the biggest trade, a little hyperbole. :lol: Well a lot of hyperbole.

Ravage!!!
10-19-2011, 10:47 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I just heard that Hue Jackson called this trade the biggest trade in the history of the NFL or something to that effect. :lol:

Also heard that Palmer has done nothing to keep himself in shape and hasn't even thrown a football since the end of last season. :shocked:

I just heard on the Heard show the exact opposite. They talked with Ken OBrien, who's been working out and trainng with Palmer. Says he looks sharp, is in shape, and is ready to go.

BroncoWave
10-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Per Schefter, Palmer is expected to start this Sunday.

BroncoAV06
10-19-2011, 11:19 AM
The price is stupid high but the Raiders are all in this year.

Give a 1st/2nd (that could be another 1st) or a 4th for Kyle Orton?.....

We would of given the Raiders a 4th to take Orton. :balloons:

TXBRONC
10-19-2011, 11:21 AM
If Palmer really is in the shape you say he is this is going to be very interesting. As far as the biggest trade, a little hyperbole. :lol: Well a lot of hyperbole.

The way I understand it Palmer said at his press conference that he hadn't thrown a ball in months and that he had been tailgating at USC games.

vandammage13
10-19-2011, 11:26 AM
The way I understand it Palmer said at his press conference that he hadn't thrown a ball in months and that he had been tailgating at USC games.

I heard that Palmer had been working out with former Jets QB Ken O'Brien at the USC campus.

Not sure how hard he was working or how much throwing he was doing but he was working out.

TXBRONC
10-19-2011, 11:27 AM
I just heard on the Heard show the exact opposite. They talked with Ken OBrien, who's been working out and trainng with Palmer. Says he looks sharp, is in shape, and is ready to go.

Like I said it portrayed on Vic and Gary's radio program that Palmer said it himself that he hadn't thrown a ball in months and that he had spent time tailgating at USC games. That doesn't mean has gotten fat. Now it's possible I was paying close enough attention misheard them.

BroncoNut
10-19-2011, 11:33 AM
Its not like he's any better than campbell. less athletic, about the same arm strength, hasn't been relevent in 5 years, injured his leg and now an imobile qb is basically now a statue.

they got raped in the trade.

that. maybe he could've been better at one time, but in regard to these incidences, particularly being out of action for 5 years, i'm not that concerned with the Raiders,... regarding this position anyway

Juriga72
10-19-2011, 11:33 AM
The way I understand it Palmer said at his press conference that he hadn't thrown a ball in months and that he had been tailgating at USC games.

AND they signed him instead of Orton......:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:........... ..... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

NightTerror218
10-19-2011, 12:02 PM
If Carson is playing we can kiss game goodbye I dont think we can stop Mcfadden and Carson. Campbell was not very good and ate us up. Put an actual Qb who can be good in there and we are doomed. Unless Doomer and Miller pressure him a lot to make him work quicker and not pick secondary apart.

BroncoWave
10-19-2011, 12:03 PM
If Carson is playing we can kiss game goodbye I dont think we can stop Mcfadden and Carson. Campbell was not very good and ate us up. Put an actual Qb who can be good in there and we are doomed. Unless Doomer and Miller pressure him a lot to make him work quicker and not pick secondary apart.

Has anyone watched Carson Palmer play the last few seasons? He has been terrible. I don't get why anyone is scared of him. He has just not been a good QB since he blew out his ACL. Add that to the fact that he is with a new team and not in game shape yet, he does not worry me at all.

BORDERLINE
10-19-2011, 01:41 PM
If they Raiders make the playoffs then this trade immediately get's the stamp of approval. The Raidas been sucking for a while they are finally getting fans to come to the stadium and they got something going on there. Run DMC is a beast and all they needed was an effective passer to make limited passing plays to be a controlling offense and I think they have that with Palmer. I hope he fails since i'm a raider hater and would like to see them lose every game but, they are good there is no denying that.

Lancane
10-19-2011, 02:06 PM
Sorry, I have to laugh at some of the comments in this thread.

First and foremost is the thought that Kyle Orton is better then Carson Palmer, which is just asinine...Orton had two good seasons in an offensive system that fluffs up quarterback stats, while Palmer played in 'Cincinnati', not in Pittsburgh, New England, Dallas or San Diego, but Cincinnati...has had five 3,000 yard plus seasons, two of which were 4,000 yards plus. Orton has had only two 3,000 yard plus seasons, period. So what that Palmer was injured or out, Brady was out for nearly a season and I'd say he's just fine.

Plus Palmer has been working out with O'Brien as well as working out with specific trainers at a well known facility in Cali that caters to NFL off-season progression workouts. He's slimmer, he looks younger and he's away from Cincinnati where he was unhappy, and the Raiders offense is almost identical to Cincinnati's, that is even what Hue Jackson said, so he felt the transition would be easier. Let's not forget some other important facts; Jackson was Palmer's offensive coordinator his freshman season at USC, Jackson has also been a quarterback coach and has worked with the likes of Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer (when he first came into the league), Tony Banks, Pat Barnes and our own Jake Plummer at Arizona State.

I have to wonder if they gave up too much for him, but the move itself was a smart one, Palmer is back in Cali, he's with an organization that has steadily improved, the Raiders got a proven veteran to mentor Pryor for a few seasons and that in itself could pay off big time.

Personally, I think the Raiders just became more dominant; we have some here who think we should trade the entire draft for Luck, what's the difference between what they did and that? They got multiple players for their picks though. Chicago did much the same for Cutler, I don't think they got the short end of the stick and neither do they.

BroncoWave
10-19-2011, 02:13 PM
People who think Carson Palmer is still any good make me seriously question if they have watched a Bengals game in the past 3 years. His yardage numbers are every bit as empty as Orton's in those years. He's only had two winning seasons as a QB, he throws picks every bit as dumb as some of the ones Orton throws, and he has a pretty bad YPA.

I honestly don't think he is that much better than Orton. Orton's numbers actually dwarf Palmer's in 09 and 10, and he only won 3 fewer games than Palmer.

Even if you do think Palmer is a little better than Orton, there is WAY more value in trading a 4 or 5 for Orton than trading a 1 and a 2 for Palmer.

hotcarl
10-19-2011, 02:14 PM
palmer is playing this weekend

Lancane
10-19-2011, 02:28 PM
People who think Carson Palmer is still any good make me seriously question if they have watched a Bengals game in the past 3 years. His yardage numbers are every bit as empty as Orton's in those years. He's only had two winning seasons as a QB, he throws picks every bit as dumb as some of the ones Orton throws, and he has a pretty bad YPA.

I honestly don't think he is that much better than Orton. Orton's numbers actually dwarf Palmer's in 09 and 10, and he only won 3 fewer games than Palmer.

Even if you do think Palmer is a little better than Orton, there is WAY more value in trading a 4 or 5 for Orton than trading a 1 and a 2 for Palmer.

That's your opinion, I've watched Palmer, he's played behind a shitty offensive line, been sacked more times then Jay Cutler, has had to deal with some of the biggest diva receivers in the business and a coaching staff that for the most part is no better then the Cleveland's or Miami's IMHO.

You point out winning seasons? Really...that was the most overused argument for Kyle's ass? And Carson has 60 wins under his belt, and at least can lead his team to a .500 record, what has Orton done, I mean really done?

Our opinions simply differ, but you and the others making Palmer out to be worse then Orton don't have any proof that it is so, he has more wins, more touchdowns, more yards, a better overall record...the only bad thing might be that he has more interceptions...well so does Jake Plummer, but I am sure that Denver fans would rather have Jake then Kyle on the whole, because like Palmer he got the job done.

BroncoWave
10-19-2011, 02:34 PM
That's your opinion, I've watched Palmer, he's played behind a shitty offensive line, been sacked more times then Jay Cutler, has had to deal with some of the biggest diva receivers in the business and a coaching staff that for the most part is no better then the Cleveland's or Miami's IMHO.

You point out winning seasons? Really...that was the most overused argument for Kyle's ass? And Carson has 60 wins under his belt, and at least can lead his team to a .500 record, what has Orton done, I mean really done?

Our opinions simply differ, but you and the others making Palmer out to be worse then Orton don't have any proof that it is so, he has more wins, more touchdowns, more yards, a better overall record...the only bad thing might be that he has more interceptions...well so does Jake Plummer, but I am sure that Denver fans would rather have Jake then Kyle on the whole, because like Palmer he got the job done.

You are counting things that happened before Palmer's knee injury. He was a great QB back then. He has not been the same since. He single-handedly cost the Bengals quite a few games last season with some of the picks he threw.

Lancane
10-19-2011, 03:34 PM
You are counting things that happened before Palmer's knee injury. He was a great QB back then. He has not been the same since. He single-handedly cost the Bengals quite a few games last season with some of the picks he threw.

And Jake Plummer never did that? Brady has cost games as well, that's the nature of the position, but he wins more then loses and that's not Orton.

By the way, thought you might get a kick out of this...

http://www.pyromaniac.com/teams/images/cincinnati-bengals/carson-palmer-hot-dog.png

It's so wrong on so many levels! :lol:

Magnificent Seven
10-19-2011, 03:37 PM
palmer is playing this weekend

He is rusty and he will get banged up.

BroncoWave
10-19-2011, 03:45 PM
And Jake Plummer never did that? Brady has cost games as well, that's the nature of the position, but he wins more then loses and that's not Orton.

By the way, thought you might get a kick out of this...

http://www.pyromaniac.com/teams/images/cincinnati-bengals/carson-palmer-hot-dog.png

It's so wrong on so many levels! :lol:

:lol: That pic is great.

As for Jake Plummer, what in the world does he have to do with any of this? I'm simply stating that Palmer's play in the past 2 seasons has been no more impressive than Orton's. Not sure how Plummer factors in.

Lancane
10-19-2011, 03:51 PM
:lol: That pic is great.

As for Jake Plummer, what in the world does he have to do with any of this? I'm simply stating that Palmer's play in the past 2 seasons has been no more impressive than Orton's. Not sure how Plummer factors in.

Point I was making is that even quarterbacks who win make more then their fare share of mistakes. He might not be the same as before his injury, but he still threw for almost 4,000 yards and had 26 touchdowns, and did so without a 1,000 yard receiver to boot. If Orton didn't have Lloyd last season would he have done as much as he did?

I don't think Orton is even close to Palmer, that's like comparing Henne to Schaub IMHO.

Poet
10-19-2011, 05:14 PM
People who think Carson Palmer is still any good make me seriously question if they have watched a Bengals game in the past 3 years. His yardage numbers are every bit as empty as Orton's in those years. He's only had two winning seasons as a QB, he throws picks every bit as dumb as some of the ones Orton throws, and he has a pretty bad YPA.

I honestly don't think he is that much better than Orton. Orton's numbers actually dwarf Palmer's in 09 and 10, and he only won 3 fewer games than Palmer.

Even if you do think Palmer is a little better than Orton, there is WAY more value in trading a 4 or 5 for Orton than trading a 1 and a 2 for Palmer.

Now hold on, because this is far from accurate.

First off, you've typed a lot about the acl injury that killed him. It wasn't that, Palmer was a stud the next year in 2006. He got killed on that elbow injury in 2007.

In 2008 and 2009 he was actually pretty good. What you don't know, and I can't blame you because who watches the Bengals, is that in 2008 and 2009 he had one of the worst offensive lines this side of the Chicago Bears or Carr's Texans.

He is still a solid quarterback. I have no idea how in the hell it will work out for Oakland because he is rushing back, but the other thing I want to point out is that Houshmanzadeh said that they have been working out together and Palmer has been throwing with a QB's coach.

Mort reported that Palmer is in excellent condition and that the time off has helped heal the minor injuries.

He's not the world beater that some think, but you're waaaaaaay off base.

DenBronx
10-19-2011, 10:23 PM
We should sign T. Owens just to keep him away from Oakland and Palmer.

Who knows if DT comes back and gets hurt in the 1st quarter or is a ghost at least T.O. could show him what its like to play through pain.


No?


Ok.....just a random idea, mostly to keep him away from KC or Oak.

Cugel
10-20-2011, 12:44 PM
That was a very bad trade for the Raiders. We're talking McDaniels level of bad. From everything I've seen Palmer is a downgrade from Campbell.

He may come out and show that he's not done yet but I don't think we will ever see the Pro Bowl Palmer again. He's not mobile anymore and his arm isn't what it was. The ceiling has lowered on his capability. I would venture to say he is much closer to Kyle Orton in 2011 than Carson Palmer circa 2005.

We're talking about a guy that has had major knee reconstruction and Tommy John's in his freaking throwing elbow who is now 31 years old...

It's certainly a HUGE risk for them to give up a #1 and #2 (possibly 2 #1s) for a 31 year old QB.

Bottom Line: IF Palmer takes them to the SB in the next 4 or 5 years before he has to retire then it was worth it.

If not then it wasn't. :coffee:

It's really that stark and simple. Five years from now those picks should be starting and be major contributors for the Raiders -- only they will be starting for the Bengals.

It leaves a hole in your organization that hurts you for YEARS!

EXAMPLE: How much does it hurt the 2011 Broncos that in 2007 they wasted a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder to grab Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder? Three players who should be good young veteran starters on this team just aren't here because of that screw up. :coffee:

You can't just blow an entire draft like that and expect to remain competitive. That draft fiasco is a big reason why Shanahan was fired.

Lancane
10-21-2011, 12:23 AM
It's certainly a HUGE risk for them to give up a #1 and #2 (possibly 2 #1s) for a 31 year old QB.

Bottom Line: IF Palmer takes them to the SB in the next 4 or 5 years before he has to retire then it was worth it.

If not then it wasn't. :coffee:

It's really that stark and simple. Five years from now those picks should be starting and be major contributors for the Raiders -- only they will be starting for the Bengals.

It leaves a hole in your organization that hurts you for YEARS!

EXAMPLE: How much does it hurt the 2011 Broncos that in 2007 they wasted a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder to grab Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder? Three players who should be good young veteran starters on this team just aren't here because of that screw up. :coffee:

You can't just blow an entire draft like that and expect to remain competitive. That draft fiasco is a big reason why Shanahan was fired.

Let's be honest though Cugel, Oakland didn't have much in the way of draft picks remaining anyways. So they really only sacrificed one draft, but it was sacrificed for the most part before they even traded for Palmer. As you said, a few winning seasons (with playoff berths) could be the measuring stick for Oakland. Another bonus for Oakland is that now Pryor has a legit quarterback to be groomed under, grooming under Campbell or Boller, even under Orton wouldn't have helped him all that much. Learning from a two-time All-Pro and Pro-Bowler is vastly different, look at Aaron Rodgers, Dan Fouts and Steve Young, all groomed under such quarterbacks, if Terrell Pryor turns into such a quarterback wouldn't you say that was worth it as well?

Ravage!!!
10-21-2011, 09:04 PM
Let's be honest though Cugel, Oakland didn't have much in the way of draft picks remaining anyways. So they really only sacrificed one draft, but it was sacrificed for the most part before they even traded for Palmer. As you said, a few winning seasons (with playoff berths) could be the measuring stick for Oakland. Another bonus for Oakland is that now Pryor has a legit quarterback to be groomed under, grooming under Campbell or Boller, even under Orton wouldn't have helped him all that much. Learning from a two-time All-Pro and Pro-Bowler is vastly different, look at Aaron Rodgers, Dan Fouts and Steve Young, all groomed under such quarterbacks, if Terrell Pryor turns into such a quarterback wouldn't you say that was worth it as well?

I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell for Pryor to turn out worth a lick.

Lancane
10-21-2011, 10:43 PM
I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell for Pryor to turn out worth a lick.

:lol:

And there is that possibility as well. But a fair number of people said the same about Cam Newton and right now he's tearing it up.

However, if there is a chance that Pryor will improve I'd say he has a better shot being groomed behind Palmer rather then Boller, Campbell or even Orton.

BroncoStud
10-22-2011, 12:11 AM
I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell for Pryor to turn out worth a lick.

He wasn't that good in college, throws like a chick. He's got wildcat written all over him.

Lancane
10-22-2011, 01:25 AM
He wasn't that good in college, throws like a chick. He's got wildcat written all over him.

Eh? Where do you guys get this crap? I'm not a big fan of Terrell Pryors, but hell...he's got a stronger arm then Tebow and a quicker release. A lot of what has been said about Pryor is similar to what many have said about Tebow, give that Pryor has and a better arm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EulYKdokw48